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Midday at the Watering Hole: We’re 40% of Dems??

Hey, PUMAs and Conflucians.  Lookee what CNN has posted:  Preston on Politics: PUMAs Stalking Obama.  This piece has a little something for everyone and does a pretty good job of presenting everyone’s point of view.  But it also gives us a tantalizing glimpse of the discontent behind the Democratic party’s Unity Screen.  Here’s the money quote:

Should the Obama campaign be worried about the PUMAs? A recent CNN/Opinion Research Corp. poll showed that more than four in 10 Democrats still preferred Clinton as the nominee. But Obama is leading McCain in early general election polls. And as Clinton continues to vocalize her support for Obama, it is probably safe to say that more Clinton backers will likely fall in line behind him.

Crikey!  The media can lie to you but numbers rarely do.  Oh, sometimes you need to know how to read them and all but in this case, no complicated math is required.  Four in 10 can be converted to a percentage very easily.  That’s roughly, no, *exactly* 40%.  And note that the article says that the number of Clintonistas not supporting Obama is actually more than four in 10 Democrats.  Now, I know that Rasmussen’s presidential tracking poll has the two presumptive nominees statistically tied.  But why isn’t it higher for Obama given that he’s now on his Presidential Grand Tour of Europe and the Middle East?  Talk about positive thinking.  He hasn’t snagged the nomination yet, more than 40% of his party doesn’t want him and he’s tied in the tracking poll.  Man-o-mah, I sure would HATE to be Donna B., Howard Dean and all of those hornswaggled SuperDelegates if Obama starts looking like a loser.

I’d hate to be Taylor Marsh too.  She has really started raking us over the coals.  I had no idea that Will Bower was an opportunistic phony.  *I* thought the guy quit his job so he could devote his life full time to bringing the Democratic party back in line with its voters.  I was completely taken in by the cad.  And Diane Mantavoulos of JustSayNoDeal and HireHeels is a publicist???  OMG, I had roommates like her.  So much fun and dressed to kill but I had NO idea how low they could sink in their careers.  Don’t they rank right between chimney sweeps and nannies?  PUBLICISTS, Conflucians!  We’ve been hanging out with adjunct media specialists!  We will be shunned, *shunned*, I tell you at the next meeting of The Passionate, Committed But Unheard Bloggers meeting.  We won’t be able to show our faces.  What did our mothers tell us?  Hang around with THAT type and you’ll end up with your mug on TV.  Perish the thought.

And Harriet!  How dare she call herself a Christian?  There she was speaking her mind, saying what all of us were thinking, but not the least bit biased against anyone.  And now Taylor finds that she hangs out in bars and drinks– alcohol.  I don’t know how Taylor deals with it all day, living where she does in that saintly, pure, idealistic haven of Las Vegas.  Mature Manhattanite women surely never go to bars in Las Vegas.  (Come to the dark side, Taylor.  We know you want it.)

Look at the company we keep, Conflucians.  Now that I think about it, I’m going to have a piece of my mind with that Republican incognita, Darragh Murphy tonight on a special edition of NO WE WON’T on blogtalkradio.  We call it The Lion’s Share.  We’re going to do a bit of experimentation tonight with one of madamab’s One Act Plays and Gary and Mawm will tell us about what life is like for PUMAs on the road.  Set your batchannels for 8:00pm EST tonight.

Tomorrow, we will be having virtual cocktails at The Scratching Post, right here, starting at 7pm EST.  We’re offering a special drink: $10 per Causmo.  I’ve heard that fundraising has been pretty successful but there’s no confirmation so far.  Personally, I hope we’ve far exceeded our goals and can now start thinking about the future while we put the past debt behind us.  But let’s leave nothing to chance.  If you can’t afford a Causmo, I’m sure Rico can whip up just about anything to whet your whistle.  Everyone is welcome, even you shy OPUMAs who are going cold turkey on the Kool-Ade.  We can probably get you some Crystal Lite to help clarify things for you.

One final thing: Ugghh, I just sat through a painful scripted press conference on the Middle East from Barack Obama who is in Israel.  It’s one thing to have to listen to 4 years of the “uhhhhs” and “ummms” but I just can’t take the “baffle them with Bullshit” technique.  His presentation is just so shallow and spotty that I simply cannot take him seriously, especially after I know that Hillary’s would be crisp, clear, detailed, in-depth and well reasoned.  Shoot me now.

143 Responses

  1. And just what are you going to do when McCain becomes president and does everything you are against?

    Think about it.

  2. What a strange election this is. 4 out of 10 Dems don’t like Obama and many Republicans can’t stand McCain.

    Out of all the millions of people in this country and that’s the best we can do? Obama vs. McCain

    And DownriverDem…..probably the same thing we did for the last 8. I don’t have much hope Obama would do anything I agree with either, although I’m not voting for McCain. I think my protest vote will go to Cynthia McKinney.

    Mountain Sage

  3. DownriverDem – And just what are you going to do when Barack Obama becomes President and does everything you are against?

    Think about it.

  4. DownriverDem: If you don’t want me to vote my conscience, ie, against Obama, I suggest you urge the DNC to give me a better candidate at the convention. Until you can assure me that you’ve done everything in your power to make sure that Hillary gets a legitimate, authentic, unscripted nomination from her delegates, then you can take you guilt trips on the road and kiss my ass.

  5. RD – the trollies are flop-sweating today.

    They broke it, they own it.

  6. Yeah, I love that photo. I am the best looking PUMA in that line up, by the way.

    The troll sweat contains lots of new phermones. I’m still analyzing them. As soon as I get a second data point, I’ll report.

  7. His presentation is just so shallow and spotty that I simply cannot take him seriously, especially after I know that Hillary’s would be crisp, clear, detailed, in-depth and well reasoned. Shoot me now.

    I’m with you RD it’s the Bush cringe crawl when he speaks, knowing the substantive substance is as weighty as vaporware….all over again

  8. Better McCain with a Dem Congress than Obama with a Dem Congress.

    During this primary, we’ve seen that our new Dem Congress hasn’t got a sliver of spine or an ounce of brains. Yeh, don’t bother telling me the few exceptions; they’re just that, exceptions and few. Like Hillary.

  9. I think you’re right, madamab….I don’t remember see this much troll action at this site in a long time. Their fear factor must be really high with all of their posts.

  10. Hey all – TOTALLY OT, but check this out – Novakula ran someone over and tried to flee the scene!

    Oh, the schadenfreude….(the pedestrian is hospitalized but apparently will be okay)

  11. I’m doing a sloppy biologist survey of the blogs today. The tone has changed. The obamanauts are acting confused. They are losing their monomanaical focus.

    I think the fact the the Obama tour is not giving him a bounce is only one reason that the fear and panic have set in. I get the impression that the bigger problem for them is that the press is starting to turn against Obama.

    And Obama is sounding more and more like Bush. That makes it hard for them to keep the faith,

  12. “baffle them with Bullshit”

    Well said. I’ve tried listening to him and can never figure out what he’s talking about. Maybe that’s part of the aura.

  13. Arabella, Delphyne – The FISA betrayal by Obama really took the wind out of their sails. Clearly, he is not the progressive they thought he was. And with Hillary voting the right way by contrast, and then standing up for womens’ issues while Obama takes his victory lap around Europe and the Middle East…well, I think they are starting to realize they were played by a master manipulator.

    By the time the Convention rolls around, many conscientious Obama voters will become PUMAs. RRRRROOOOOAAAARRRR!

  14. It was alright for Taylor Marsh to admit to voting for Reagan in the 80’s. It was ok for all the so-called progressives in 2000 to “vote their political consciences” for Nadar. But, God forbid we PUMA’s not get behind Obama. Was it not Dean himself who in 2004 said that we need to be Democrat’s and not “Republican-lites”?
    So who does Dean throw over the finish line but the most Republican lite candidate the Democrat’s could have fielded! My how 4-8 years changes things!

    Taylor Marsh is pandering because the DNC gave her and her website the DNC seal of approval. She is a Judas and it is only fitting that she resides in Las Vegas (Sodom and Gomorrah anyone!?)

  15. plural – I can never figure out what he’s talking about either!

    Same with McCain – or is it that I just can’t keep my eyes open?

    Hillary is clear, concise and totally compelling when she speaks.

    I will never understand Obama’s appeal.

  16. Arabella: If I were to guess, I think the “sounding more like Bush” thing is what’s doing it. I could be wrong about this and Axelrod is going to get a huge bounce out of presenting him like he’s already president but it is my feeling that the best thing that Hillary could do was step out of Obama’s way. Now we can see him. He can no longer mimic what Hillary just said at a debate. He’s got to think on his feet and although he is a LOT smarter than Bush, it’s clear that he doesn’t have the command that Hillary and even McCain have. For Obama, wishing makes it so. Grownups know that’s not true. I think that people are starting to miss something more substantive.

  17. I think the new troll infection can be traced to Donna’s lovely call for lovely unity. Donna, big o & the rest think unity can be won by beating people up and keeping them down. The trolls are only doing what their masters want.

  18. At least the Obots are keeping me entertained while I ride out the northern edge of the hurricane. It’s very rainy, with lots of funnel clouds–no reports of any tornadoes touching down yet.

    Things aren’t nearly so good in the Rio Grande Valley. Dolly has stalled a bit, which will cause a lot of flooding. I understand all electric power is out in Port Isabel (South Padre Island.) All of Los Fresnos and part of Brownsville is also without electricity. Keep the Valley in your thoughts and prayers–many of the colonias have no drainage systems, and the folks living there the ones least able to afford to rebuild.

  19. madamab – I agree. I think the FISA vote (especially with Hillary voting the way she did) totally knocked the wind of lots of Obamadroids. They tried to justify it by saying “He’s smart, he’s moving to the middle.”

    As time went on, they were not doing a good job of convincing themselves.

  20. We’re 40%! No wonder the trolls are getting desperate. No wonder the DNC is getting nasty. Holy Hemiola RD, we have attained relevance without any help from any of the powers that be. Screw media, the Democratic Party and the DNC. You don’t need us? Bullshit!

  21. rd – I agree. The “Israel will always be a good friend to Israel” incident made more than one follower snap to his senses. In addition, the staged press conferences, the petty quibbling with reporters, and the Little Prince-ness of it all shocked the zombies awake. “This reminds me of something bad …. ”

    The more they see Obama, the more they realize that they have Bush Redux. Interesting that of all things, this shames them more than anything else.

  22. stxabuela: Keep us updated. That way, we’ll know you’re ok. I lived through Hurricane Chralie (Category 4) from a penthouse in Naples, Florida. Watching it come in was amazing but I have to admit to feeling uneasy when the plate glass windows started to flex.
    Everything turned out ok. I never loss cell phone signal.
    But the next day, I broke my arm while climbing over some downed trees and debris. Of course, I just told everyone that it happened while I was rescuing a busload of orphans from the storm surge. It was more entertaining than the clumsy truth.

  23. You know, I strongly believe in giving credit to people when it’s due, even if I don’t like them. Obama has claimed to be a uniter (not a divider…where.. have I… heard that before?). Well, he has.

    For instance, I am the only one in my immediate family who votes Democratic. However, with the DNC selecting Obama as their (blunder of a) nominee, it turns out I’ll be voting Republican for my first time. How sad… I’ve gone from voting for the candidate I’ve been waiting for (Hillary) to voting against the candidate I dread from ever sitting behind the desk in the oval office (Obama).

    Add to this his message of “change,” which is the best word to describe his policies (well, with the exception of the word “audacity”), and he is pretty much in line with his campaign promises. New kind of politics indeed.

  24. kenoshaMarge,: I think the thing that has them rattled is that if we were truly united, McCain wouldn’t be in a statistical deadheat with Obama. The Democratic nominee would be beating McCain by double digits. It would be Kerry territory. Right now, we’re looking at Walter Mondale territory. They are still banging their heads on the wall but by now it must be dawning on them that it might feel better if they stopped.
    They should have known that pushing Democrats like this wouldn’t work. We’re DEMOCRATS for gawd’s sakes. Jeez. And if the Republicans had any prayer of winning this year, John McCain was it. No matter what they say about him, he is the least objectionable Republican. If you’re going to have a Republican running things, you might as go with the genuine article.
    BTW, I’m not planning on voting for McCain.

  25. Oh that poor pitiful thing that wrote on TM”s site. She went to the FEC page to check on the contributions. H E L L O ???

    Our contributions were done in <i?J U L Y. Wait until the numbahs are released in August.

    And why are they so mad at us? Donna and some of the Dem elites (according to themselves) said they didn’t need us anymore; that there was a NEW dem. party. Since they told us they didn’t need us we (I) weren’t going to stay where we weren’t wanted and now they’re mad because we left! Could it be we have something they want, like our votes? When you said you didn’t need me, I took my vote with me. Sorry, you can’t have just that.

    As far as Obama and any bumps in the polls, I haven’t seen that yet. All I see is that he’s opening his mouth and gibberish is coming out of it and he’s still within the m.o.e. in the polls I’ve seen. Oh, and McCain is ahead in OH according to Rasmussen.

  26. Donna, Howard, and the rest of the DNC can call for unity all they want. WE are unified . . . unified as PUMAs.
    Noway, Nobama, November.

  27. for Taylor Marsh to call anyone an opportunist is rich, what with her shilling for a radio show for months now, and taking donations from her listeners who were fooled into thinking she had a shred of principles or dignity. She’s a total hack and not only an opportunist, but a bad one at that. Has she looked at her site rank on alexa lateley? I think all of her readers have switched over to the true democrats here at the Confluence. I think our rise is directly proportional to her fall. poor thing. bless her heart….

  28. Someone at NoQuarter is directing people to a site that sells PUMA wrist bands. They are like the Lance Armstrong ones. They are really cute and say 18million strong and PUMA. RD is this an authorized accessory? I don’t want to be the only one wearing one at your crib Thursday night.

  29. RD, exactly. They can scream all they want that the world LOVEES Obama, The media can too, but the numbers don’t lie. If he were so gosh darned loveable he’d be soaring above McCain, who face it is a pretty boring candidate. And we’re not even past the convention yet. He’s doooooomed and i’m loving it!!!!

  30. Oooo, Gary used the Bless Her Heart maneuver.
    Harsh, Gary, That was Harsh.

  31. I don’t like to give Taylor Marsh traffic, but I checked out the link that rd posted. It is so sad to see a woman selling out another woman.

    I don’t get rd’s references to Harriet, though. Anybody care to enlighten me?

  32. OTP. I hope RD wouldn’t mind me posting it here.

    I’m one of the 97 PUMAs who collaborated on this idea and voted for the band. We want a cool way to quickly identify the follow PUMAs in public. It’s a way to unit us outside the internet. I have the picture of the band, but I don’t know how to insert it. You can see the band at the link below.

    Disclaimer: I don’t gain any financial or non-financial benefit for promoting the sale of this band. My only satisfaction is to get a fair convention for Hillary.

    “First Ever P.U.M.A. Wristband”

    This wristband was a collaborated idea of a group of PUMAs. The design and color was decided by a transparent voting system (unlike DNC). Over 97 PUMAs participated in the poll and the result is this super-cool-high-quality P.U.M.A wristband. After we decided on the gold color which makes it looks expensive and the text “18 Million Strong”, one of the PUMA was very generous to advance the startup fund and buy the material to make this idea possible.

    The P.U.M.A. wristband can be bought at 18MillionStrong Shop.


    For now the money will go to the PUMA member who spent huge amount of money to make this possible. When and if we see a profit, then the money will go to retire Hillary debt, and to one of the PUMA organizations like the Denver Group, PUMA Pac to pay for the PUMA ads.

    The price of a band is $ 4.00 including shipping.

    The band will come in handy to identify the fellow PUMAs in Denver during the rally, or on the street, the train, the supermarket, gas station. Be ready to say hello to your new PUMA friends. Real unity for real democrats.

  33. I was glad for the little feed thingie here and I didn’t have to go to TM’s site. Didn’t want to give her the hit.

  34. Arabella: TM makes a big deal about Will hanging out at a bar with Harriet.

    “Will Bowers(the spokesman) will continue drinking with Harriet”

  35. Party Unity My Ass.

    You can’t herd cats. That is a well known fact.

    As far as I’m concerned “Unite” is a blender setting right next to “Puree” and “Chop.”

  36. PS: I have sent the same message to Will Bower. He will help spread the words about the PUMA wristband.

    Please help us make it viral. We need to unite outside the internet.

  37. JoeySky – Good for you! What a lovely idea.

    I wonder if Colbert will get one? LOL

  38. Mawm and I bought puma t-shirts from the online puma store. they’re $20 each, and quite fashionable. I highly recommend paying them a visit (I can only assume they support our cause since they haven’t sent out the attack copyright lawyers yet).


  39. I love the PUMA wristbands!

  40. stxabuela: take care and keep your head down!! I grew up in NOLA so I know what riding out a hurricane is like, so take care & keep us posted if you can so we can know you are ok.

  41. ryan2483, — I sympathize — for the first time in their 40 year marriage my mom (always votes D) & my dad (always votes R) will NOT be canceling each other’s votes out on election day. Not change my mom or I can believe in.

  42. Does anyone have the website addy for contacting superdelegates? I think I need to say to all of them that if the convention is rigged for Obama, I will not only not vote for democrats in this election cycle I will never NEVER donate another dime to the DNC, DCCC, DCSC (is that the correct abbreviation for the Senators?), any Blue-dog Dems the internet is currently in love with or anyone else.

    I will be done with democrats and as a citizen, I can’t NOT vote, so where does that leave me? Hmm. I suppose I’ll be donating my cash to woment’s issues, volunteering my time to help make sure any women in states who don’t have access to care can get to the care they need. I’m sure my dems don’t need me to make phone calls and knock on doors anymore.

  43. I would like to recommend Susan’s blog at NQ on Couric’s interview with Obama and McCain. Also read some of the comments, if you will. One of them in particular about journalists not given a mike for their questions (wonder why!?) and Obama retorting when asked to repeat a question: “Why don’t you ask your buddies to speak louder so I don’t have to repeat it?”
    What a con man!

    And this comment from Sugar:

    Comment by Sugar | 2008-07-23 11:41:24

    This part from the Couric/Obama interview are especially worrisome for me:

    Couric: Two more questions. You said not too long ago that Jerusalem should remain undivided. And then you backtracked on that statement. Does that play into the argument that some believe that someone more experienced would not have made that kind of mistake?

    Obama: Well…if you look at what happened, there was no shift in policy or backtracking in policy. We just had phrased it poorly in the speech. That has happened and will happen to every politician. You’re not always gonna hit your mark in terms of how you phrase your policies.

    I mean, what the hell are we supposed to think when a candidate admits that he nearly wrecked relations with Israel over a “poorly phrased speech”?


    Look at his obfuscation. On a quick read, his response seems refreshingly honest, right? trying to admit poor phrasing in the speech. But what are the consequences? and can we afford to have another unprepared hack relying solely on his advisers?

  44. oh, let’s face it. we must have done so much evil in our former reincarnations that we’re doomed to another 4 years with a president who can’t talk his way out of a wet paper bag.

    damn, i miss that woman. during the campaign, i was assured of at least a few minutes of video of a presidential candidate who knew what she was talkign about, and knew how to convey that. now? NOTHING. she talks like someone taking their oral ph.d. exams every damn time you hear her – she is in command of her subject.

  45. arabella did you see my prayer I sent to the highest heavens for you last night it is on the “this is so embarrassing…” thread abr 10-11 pm

    Sorry how can Obama be ahead-these numbers dont add up-

    90% of repugs have rallied around McCain and they make up 40% of registered voters.

    54% of Independents who have declared a candidate support McCain and they make up 10% of registered voters

    40% of Democrats do not support Obama? We make up about 50% of all registered voters-

    How can Obama lead McCain with this breakdown?

    sorry numbers dont add up except in an alternate univers were Axelfraud math may be used!

    Rasmuessen have them in a statistical tie 41/42 Obama.

    gotta go fuzzybeargville

  46. “We just had phrased it poorly in the speech.”

    Oh come on. What a weasel. He says Jerusalem is the capital of Israel and then claims that was just poor phrasing?

  47. If only Bo could take some time off from his photo shoots to bone up on the issues!

    The “bone up” was for all of the BO supporters.

  48. …the polls are turning on Obama that’s why Obama has lost Ohio the DNC silly nose ring grievance jerks aimed at women have failed repeatedly, and his negatives are up across the board and this new Iraq war strategy is a disaster but it dose put the truth out there now for all to see the Dem Pelosi Congress never had any intention of walking away from control of the worlds third largest oil reserves, and the only people interested in Obama’s training wheels world tour is the media and his devoted acolytes, the dog days of summer, after all that was Axelrods intended target keep them busy …..That’s what editors do best…and that’s Axelrod’s craft.
    So now we have no Obama bump ever not as the presumptive nominee, now not for his dog and pony show as faux president either in fact his negatives are rising showing it’s the stats that are wrong. Add items like Fowler’s clumsy use of identity grievance thinking he would rally women in his last DNC old school missives, tells you all you need to know about the new DNC and that it is headed disaster in Nov. My advice to the DNC is to diversify NOW for 2012 the absence of white working women issues and culture understanding from the DNC rooster is a massive blunder, as you may recall but not wish to acknowledge they are the largest voting demographic for Kerry in 04.

  49. You should also try selling some of that stuff on ebay. That way people living abroad can get it using paypal.

  50. I read the berating letter from Fowler on NQ where he tries to shame us into falling in line behind the selected nominee — seems the DNC’s new motto is “the beatings will continue until morale improves.” Really, Fowler has the balls to say he is confused by us demanding conditions for our support. Hate to break it to you, buster — my support has always had conditions. I’ve been voting Dem for the last 20 years because I thought the party stood the principles I believed in — you know, social justice, one person one vote, the 4th amendment, women’s rights, *little* things like that. Now, I know better. The Dems lost my support with this primary fiasco and short of a miracle Hillary nomination in August (and I have my candle lit) it is gone for good. And Fowler, Donna, Dean, et al need to just GET OVER IT.

  51. fuzzy – Yes, yes! I saw your prayer. It moved me to tears – so kind of you to single me out.

    I hope you continue to close out the day with your inspired prayer.

  52. #
    plural, on July 23rd, 2008 at 2:00 pm Said:

    “We just had phrased it poorly in the speech.”

    Oh come on. What a weasel. He says Jerusalem is the capital of Israel and then claims that was just poor phrasing?

    The poor phrasing is about Jerusalem being undivided and backtracking on it — bigger issue.

  53. I’ve been on a MSM news fast for months. Anything I see on TV is by accident. When I was getting my oil changed, the television in the waiting room showed poor quality footage of Obama in the Mideast. It looked downright scary. Grainy wobbly pictures of Obama meeting with the locals.

    He is not doing himself a favor with this trip.

  54. Interesting vid of Don Fowler and the role of S.D’s over at NoQuarter.


  55. Alan: Buh-bye…

  56. Alan — that is the problem right there — the “party’s standard bearer” voted FOR the FISA bill — to paraphrase the messiah himself, “that isn’t the Democratic Party I knew for 20 years.” And it isn’t getting MY vote — I still believe in the Constitution.

  57. Obama “We just had phrased it poorly in the speech.” Is Obama Sybil? The three faces of Obama? How many people gave the speech with obama?

  58. Okay Alan, I give you my permission!

    Vote for whoever you want. I don’t care! And, I’ll do the same.

  59. you know, one thing I’ve noticed about Alan and a lot of our other trolls. Their email adresses tend to end in .edu. Now I won’t out anybody’s location, but it seems like a trend (arabella, I’ve got many more than two data points here). So we can safely assume that trolls are largely A)elitist snobs living as profesors on academic welfare or B) the sniveling students who like to purr at the feet of said professors. Nice to know what losers our trolls are (and most of them go to really crappy schools!!!!) 🙂

  60. P.S. I apologize if you thought my last post was negative:-)

  61. Alan: Why are you here if we’re not making a difference? Aren’t you supposed to be, like, *ignoring* us? If we’re so inconsequential, go play some trism on your iPhone and leave us alone.
    If I didn’t know better, I’d think it bothers you a weeee little bit that we won’t fall in line. It makes the race a little too close for comfort, doesn’t it?
    If you’re really worried, you could go to the DNC website and send a thoughtfully worded email expressing your concern that dissing 18.2 million voters is a poor election strategy and what could be the harm of nominating Clinton at the election? Right? I mean, if the whole thing is over anyway, what’s the harm in nominating her at the convention? 40% of us say the party isn’t united anyway now. It *might* be unified afterwards if there are nominations for both candidates and speeches made in their support and legitimate roll call votes from unpressured SuperDelegates. Oh, and Obama has to give back his Michigan delegates. Minor detail. I’m *sure* that he has sufficient superdelegate support to cover it because YOU say so.
    So, get to it, Alan. Go ask Dean, Pelosi and Brazile for a nomination for Clinton. After all this is the only convention you’re going to get this year and “If you don’t take the time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?”

  62. But don’t lull yourselves into hoping that you can make a difference.

    Heck, no. I won’t. To think that I can make a difference flies in the very face of Democratic principles. Of course we can’t make a difference.

  63. (and most of them go to really crappy schools!!!!)

    Gary, thank god for this. I was beginning to lose faith in the big schools and their intellectual capital.

  64. We PUMAs care about issues, unfortunately for the trolls. You don’t just “get over” issues.

    However, if we WERE all about hurt feelings, how does coming here and bashing us help the situation?

    Their tactics are counterproductive, to say the least. 😉

  65. arabella, I’ve got many more than two data points here.

    Two data points is a trend, three data points is high probabilty, four data points is absolute certainty.

  66. If we won’t make a difference, why are you wasting your time on us?

  67. Arabella: spoken like a true biologist. Engineers know that there can never be too much data

  68. riverdaughter, on July 23rd, 2008 at 2:15 pm Said:

    Alan: Why are you here if we’re not making a difference? Aren’t you supposed to be,..
    He is probably jobless, no internship, no GRA, not even a cafeteria stunt. So this is his job — I hope Axelrod pays him something, commission like depending on how many of us he converts everyday.

  69. #
    riverdaughter, on July 23rd, 2008 at 2:20 pm Said:

    Arabella: spoken like a true biologist. Engineers know that there can never be too much data
    no kidding (about engineers)! I am debating about 25 runs where 5 would suffice.

  70. The site that sells wrist bands belongs to the designer of the winning T-shirt that a lot of us bought to pay down the debt.
    She is in a photo here with Will wearing her PUMA T-shirt

  71. Michael P.Varvel

    I have found different figures :

    “The balance of party identification in the American electorate now favors the Democratic Party by a decidedly larger margin than in either of the two previous presidential election cycles.

    In 5,566 interviews with registered voters conducted by the Pew Research Center for the People & the Press during the first two months of 2008, 36% identify themselves as Democrats, and just 27% as Republicans.

    The share of voters who call themselves Republicans has declined by six points since 2004, and represents, on an annualized basis, the lowest percentage of self-identified Republican voters in 16 years of polling by the Center.

    The Democratic Party has also built a substantial edge among independent voters. Of the 37% who claim no party identification, 15% lean Democratic, 10% lean Republican, and 12% have no leaning either way.

    By comparison, in 2004 about equal numbers of independents leaned toward both parties. When “leaners” are combined with partisans, however, the Democratic Party now holds a 14-point advantage among voters nationwide (51% Dem/lean-Dem to 37% Rep/lean-Rep), up from a three-point advantage four years ago.”

    This is why a number of people still think Obama will be a shoo-in. It is also why Dean-brazile are on record as stating that a 13-15% defection in Hill supporters was acceptable. (IMO)

    “Despite these trends, the proportion of voters who identify with the Democratic Party outright has not increased in recent years. Currently, 36% say they think of themselves as a Democrat, virtually unchanged from 2004 (35%) and 2000 (35%). Instead, as the proportion of self-identified Republicans has decreased, the percentage of independents has grown substantially, from 32% in 2004 to 37% today. ”

    Why polls cannot always be counted on is in the way they count independent leaners as for example Dems, which gives them eg 55% dems. It’s all a bit up in the air. Personally I prefer state polls to nation wide RCP polls any day of the week.
    If you look at polls closely there are always a larger number of Dems than Repubs.
    The thing is IMO that if there are more or less 55% dems out there (reg and leaners) why can’t Obama beat the 50% barrier, and is now down to 42-43% in some polls, with a lot of indies undecided. In saying 55% I’m including the new voter registrations the DFA -BOs are bringing in.

  72. ….least we forget the every one gets a pony platform is good business for edu, recall two years tuition paid for by the rest of us …is that considered a poll tax I wonder

  73. How can Dean accept losing any votes at all? The last couple of elections were pretty close.

  74. The public is this far along in knowing what a nothing Barry is because of Hillary Rodham Clinton. If she dropped out in Feb , it would have taken until a year or so of POTUS Barry for the public at large to be this on to him. Yet another gift from HRC. Thanks Hill!

  75. #
    masslib, on July 23rd, 2008 at 2:10 pm Said:

    Obama “We just had phrased it poorly in the speech.” Is Obama Sybil? The three faces of Obama? How many people gave the speech with obama?

    Oh Gawd! No it’s not Sybil (or THE Sybil) it’s the damned Royal third-person. Hint: “We are not amused…”

  76. Just because someone says he/she is a Democrat does not mean he/she will vote Democratic no matter what.

    If a candidate is unacceptable to the base, a large percentage of Democrats vote Republican. That is the meaning of the phrase “Reagan Dems.”

    The end.

  77. You can’t stand listening Obama because you are SMART and think in COMPLETE SENTENCES!!

    I’m actually thinking ALL Conflucians are smart…The Confluence has sent an amazing number of people over to my site for my boring “International Press Library” debut…

    I am gratified to see so many people INTERESTED in accessing the foreign media…over at Buzzflash, where I toiled for 7 years on things like the World Media Watch and the World Energy Watch, I never knew who was actually looking at them…

    Thanks to all…and if you haven’t visited and bookmarked my foreign library page…come on over!!


    And tomorrow, I have a REAL MIND-BLOWER going up…literally! Scary shit!!!~

  78. (giggle) I was going to go after poor “Alan” but, you guys have already said everything I could possibly say about it…

    That “Divided Jerusalem” comment of Obama’s has been getting a lot of coverage on the Cable TV stations today. But didn’t he make that original speech more than a month ago?

  79. Exactly, madamab. They can’t act as if Democratic defections have never happened before.

  80. Black Man, the White Man is Not Your Problem
    Powerful powerful video viewer discretion

  81. Hi, katiebird.

  82. madamab, thanks. I ordered 2 bands last night within the minute that we knew it was ready. We have been waiting for over 1 week to get the product.

    Disclaimer: I don’t gain any financial or non-financial benefit from the selling of the P.U.M.A wristband. I’m not the PUMA who advanced the startup fund. I don’t own the 18MillionStrong shop.

    My only purpose is the help PUMAs spread outside the internet. And my only satisfaction is to see Hillary win the nomination in 2008.

  83. KB! [wave]

    Arabella – They can’t act that way? Yes, they can!


  84. katiebird,

    Yes, the original speech was June 4:

    “Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel, and it must remain undivided.”


  85. We’re clinging to the past? What a hoot. Obama wants to expand faith-based initiatives and WE’RE clinging to the past? There’s nothing progressive about blurring the line between church and state.

    I’m wondering if the DNC is getting a little nervous about down-ticket Dems. I don’t think all those ‘new improved’ voters are going to vote down. They’re going to vote for “The One” and step right out of that booth.

  86. JoeySky, on July 23rd, 2008 at 1:46 pm

    I just bought a couple of the PUMA wristbands. They look great and will help to spread the word. I think you will be in the black very soon with these wristbands and scooping up money for Hillary’s debt and the Denver Group. Thanks

    Get the Wristbands at:


  87. #
    Annetoo, on July 23rd, 2008 at 2:34 pm Said:

    The public is this far along in knowing what a nothing Barry is because of Hillary Rodham Clinton. If she dropped out in Feb , it would have taken until a year or so of POTUS Barry for the public at large to be this on to him. Yet another gift from HRC. Thanks Hill!
    Not only that, by insisting on correcting the situation with FL and MI, she helped bring out the DNC shenanigans to the public at large. We would not have concrete info/evidence about the FIX, if it were not for the ultimate RBC meeting in May.

  88. ….this also dose not discount States like Ohio where you are forced to register aligned with a Political Party to vote in their primary and you can not change that Party affiliation until the next Primary so this year was the first time that the State thought they had a voice and of course that was a lie…to me Clinton was just also a Dem…

  89. Hi Arabella!

    Madamab, that’s really great news about the performance of your play. Is that tonight?

    plural (shaking head) I guess it’s a good thing Obama went out there. Since it’s obvious we don’t listen to him when he speaks here.

    Does anyone remember Kathleen Sibelius saying that people who say Obama is inexperienced are using racist code words? I can’t find where and when or what she actually said. I found a MyDD diary talking about it but the link just went to a KCStar blog that talked about it.

    She’s my governor and I want to send her a letter about it. But, did she really say it?

  90. pm317, on July 23rd, 2008 at 2:42 pm

    True! We would never know how corrupt the DNC is and how they hate their own voter base without that ! And we needed to know . Hill saved us decades of being hoodwinked .

  91. KB – it’s tonight at 8 pm. I’m too excited! 🙂

  92. A little bit off topic, but did anyone else notice all the mentions of Webster Tarpley in the CNN article? Since when did he become a big-time PUMA spokesperson? For those who don’t know, he is a bigtime 911 conspiracy theorist, has written a lot of books on the subject and is well known in the media for that. He is basically known as a loon. I would hate to see his name associated with our movement. We will immediately become conspiracy theorists in the eyes of the media.

  93. I cannot understand why the DNC could not look at Texas and get a clue about how ridiculous it is to have a caucus. Last night my husband got so mad at me when I told him a Dem we know didn’t realize Hillary won Texas by 100,000 votes, and he told me Hillary lost Texas – that caucus voters count too.

    He’s a party chair and is spewing the party line – not going to help one iota in the general. 100,000 votes are 100,000 votes any way you look at it. And a lot of really angry voters left the caucuses upset by what was going on.

  94. GRL, on July 23rd, 2008 at 2:36 pm

    I read your overseas press reports for years
    and for years Buzzflash was my first read of the day! How the mighty have fallen! Thanks for your blog address .

  95. katiebird:

    Is this the Sibelius quote you’re looking for? (June 25)

    Echoing comments by Barack Obama, Kansas Gov. Kathleen Sebelius predicted that Republicans would undertake “a major effort to try and frighten people about him” because of his race.

    “That has been the Republican playbook for the last eight years,” said Sebelius, an Obama ally. ” ‘He’s not qualified, he’s somebody who should scare you. He’s too liberaI.’ ”

    The Kansas Democrat, often mentioned as a possible running mate for Obama, said those were all “code words” to try to make voters “uncomfortable.”

    “I don’t think anybody’s going to go directly at the race issue, but that’s going to be an underlying theme,” she said in an interview this week.


  96. JoeySky- I hope that you were not offended by my earlier comment to RD. A PUMA just can not be too careful. I just ordered two myself. I figure as soon as I start wearing it, someone will ask me for one like it. One for me, one to share. Gads, I better go and order a bunch more.

  97. CognitiveDissonance, on July 23rd, 2008 at 2:55 pm
    We will immediately become conspiracy theorists in the eyes of the media.

    Could be the point….the media can decide anyone is ” PUMA. ” that’s the scary part . The biggest handicap is thinking they will be decent.

  98. The DNC is running scared if their surrogates are going around castigating PUMA and other resisters to the Phony Messiah. PUMA and Just Say No Deal must be doing something right.

  99. plural, on July 23rd, 2008 at 2:57 pm
    “I don’t think anybody’s going to go directly at the race issue, but that’s going to be an underlying theme,” she said in an interview this week.

    There goes that Sebelius, revealing BO campaign strategy again!

  100. I have always thought Tarpley was a few fries short of a happy meal.

  101. Jmac- I really do not get it, why does Texas have the two step?

  102. Oh, come on now. Just because 4/10 Dems would prefer Clinton to Obama, doesn’t mean they won’t still choose Obama.

    I’m still not voting for Obama, but we’ve got to be honest here.

  103. Never heard of Tarpley. Of course, I don’t believe 9/11 conspiracies. The simplest explanation is the best: 19 middle eastern (mostly Saudi) men boarded 4 planes and highjacked them with little more than boxcutters and the Bush administration knew somethin bad was up and let them do it.
    End. Of. Story.

  104. That post from Taylor’s new found side kick is not surprising. Taylor’s rhetoric fuels the fire. My view is that Taylor is not what we thought she was. She’s opportunistic and using this issue as a way to get back on radio and she doesn’t care who she takes down to do it; including HLF. That’s my conclusion and I’m sticking to it.

    I USED to respect Taylor. But all that’s gone now. I hope she never gets back on radio. Speaking for me only-she’s not all the great at it. If you don’t believe me, please take time out and listen to her interview with Fiona. Ridiculous is an understatement. She interrupted Fiona many times, which I thought to be quite rude.

  105. I usually do not believe in any conspiracy theories. I have, for the most part, believed our government was too into itself or just too stupid to be able to keep a secret for very long.

  106. Who is HLF?

  107. When I felt I could no longer take Huffpost or Kos, I went to TM and it just did not seem to be a fit for me. I got the feeling that this was all about her and a radio show.

  108. The troll said we PUMAs cling to the past. Guess that’s in addition to clinging to guns & religion. What is this, a Saran Wrap campaign?

    I’m starting to feel like a vine; I think I’ll call myself Ivy all day.

  109. plural, that’s it exactly! Thank you. How did you find it? I totally missed the right search terms.

  110. riverdaughter, on July 23rd, 2008 at 3:08 pm Said:
    ….. the Bush administration knew somethin bad was up and let them do it.

    That can be proved , simply because the Air Force jets stood down and that is plenty bad enough! One doesn’t have to go into conspiracy theories . Did anyone see the Weather Channels story about the Space shuttle Challenger? It was startling to remember a Presidential commission of heavy hitters was gathered 6 days after it blew up….. And no Challenger crew family member had to work like dogs to finally get one years later ….run by hacks . How times have changed.

  111. ….and we still have 4 more glorious weeks before the Convention for the borg collective to collapse in on itself. I for one am estactic about that fact.

  112. I always figured TM was an opprotunitst and really I went right to the comments rather than read the posts. But It was pretty mean to get her very pro Hill posters to write to Air America to hire TM, knowing it was owned by Clear Channel and will remain rapidly pro BO. However I thought she was smart enough to see an opportunity of a life time. How much more noise would she be making as a PUMA? She threw the chance away with both hands….. saw a pot o’ gold where actually a pile of Barry ‘s worthless promissory notes are….one of thousands promised stuff and now are holding a bag , Super D’s included.

  113. I can’t keep track of what’s going on in Blogospheria Minor. I never trusted Taylor Marsh, but I thought she was smart. Guess she isn’t. If you’re going to sell out, at least get the best deal you can. If TM wanted to make an impact, she would have become a PUMA. It was sad when, after she announced she was backing Obama, she expecteed him to “reach out” to her. I’ve made an ass of myself many times, but so far not in such a public fashion as TM.

    It’s a sad story, really.

  114. katiebird:

    I searched for “Sibelius” “Obama” “inexperienced”

    It was about the fourth or fifth item, after a bunch of blog comments on it.

  115. Arabello: HLF is Heidi Li. She posted as HLF at TM and after she maxed out to Hillary she did lots of matching donations giving to Taylor’s site what people were giving to Hillary. Taylor now has nothing good to say about Heidi Li.

  116. Ooooh, that was a nasty article on Taylor Marsh – I read the RSS feed and didn’t wnat to give her extra hit by going.

    “OOhh teh PUMAs drink & have fun while protesting!”

    Gimme a break. Just Say No Deal & every one involved is a class act.

  117. Kim: Were you a former poster at Newshounds? I used to read and comment at that site a long time ago. There was a regular poster named Kim. I checked the site out a couple of months ago and noticed that poster “Kim” was one of the only pro-Hillary people there. Was that you and are you from Ohio? I seem to remember that Kim was from Ohio.

  118. OhVoter – OK, now I remember her. Heidi Li was a good friend to Taylor. It’s a pity she doesn’t seem to be a good friend back.

  119. Kim: I LOVE those expressions – couple sandwiches short of a picnic, etc… !

    I used to collect them – but a few hard drives ago, the list was lost.

  120. Never thought I’d say this — but when Scary Barry is unscripted and without a teleprompter, he makes Bush sound eloquent!! (Uh, Ah, Um, I mean it, Uh!) By the way, has anyone compared Obama with the profile of a sociopath> I have and it’s pretty scary. This is why he can oppose all the issues he was for during the primaries with ease — and without the slightest bit of embarrassment. His politics is neither left nor right — it’s all about him. He lies with impunity, has no shame when he’s caught in a lie, blames everyone else for any gaffs he’s made. He uses “charm” to manipulate those around him, uses people and throws them away when necessary without a backward glance, lacks deep appreciation of issues that involve people (because he is entirely self centered and doesn’t think of people as anything else but objects to be used) and has delusions of grandeur. Yes, a lot of politicians are ruthless — but this guy is something else. Put it this way — McCain can make my blood boil — but Obama makes my blood run cold.

  121. how about he’s a couple of rows short of a cornfield…kinda goes with the logo….

  122. gary: that one is new to me! funny!!

    Elevator doesn’t go to the top floor…

  123. couple bits short of a byte!

  124. her clock is slow. 😦

  125. “We’ve been hanging out with adjunct media specialists!”– beats hanging out with inept adjunct law faculty.

  126. HLF is Heidi Li Feldman. She & Mark Rubin are the Denver Group. the ones running those fab ads about a having a real convention in Denver . HLF ‘s has a great blog as well…and is nice!


    She was wonderful to TM, raised her money etc.

    TM ‘s story is sad…her wounds are all self inflected


  128. Shall we make room for Andrea under the bus?

  129. D*mn again I missed th troll will Fuzzybear ever get a chanch to drop a house on the troll and his little candidate too? ever again? I so badly want to make a “Troll House Cookie”!


  130. Well if it was Hillary against McCain would the Obamians sit at home?

    Or would 12 debates between McCain and Hillary, in a Lincoln Douglas style format, where both candidates were off prompter and no MSM coddling of eigther candidate convince the the dim that she would make the better president?

    I think so and hey they said they would support the nominee even if it wasn’t Obama! or are they liars?

    See here’s the rub we naver said we would support Obama if he was the nominee from day one Puma’s and Proto-Puma’s let the party know we would not follow if it was the big “o”.

    It was the Obamanation that said they would support a Hillary nomination from the git go. They may have said it because the MSM lead them to believe that the convention was a formality. If it turns out that the convention is where the action is and Obama draws the short straw to bad.

    YAB are you an Obama troll? because these are Rendell on the Obama short leash talking points maybe you are just a HOUND?


  131. Annetoo, on July 23rd, 2008 at 4:53 pm Said:

    Heidi Li is great and so is Marc Rubin. I recommend visiting both of their personal blogs. Marc’s blog is: http://tominpaine.blogspot.com/
    He has a new post up that is worth reading.


    Opps sorry for the caps and I have to tell you I am so tired to change them hope you don’t all shout.

    I usually hang out at Uppitys and noQuarter but came into the VERY COMFORTABLE LIVING ROOM here tonight to say hi to all~~

    Up with the H and down with the o!

    Still wanna wear Hillary with pride??

    Throw away your bumper stickers girls… STAY SAFE
    Wear a bracelet~~

    http://www. denitza-nyc. com/18MillionStrong_s/33. htm

  133. I hope the o takes a long walk off a short pier in Europe I can direct him to a few in the UK if he needs help!
    LOL just kiddin with ya man!

  134. RiverDaughter,

    Thanks for standing up for me. We need more people like you and less people like Taylor Marsh – who are in Obama’s empty suit pocket. Hillary is lucky not to have a Judas like Taylor Marsh supporting her anymore. She sold out to the dark side right after June 3rd and now she’s wishing she didn’t.

  135. Taylor Marsh didn’t just take Heidi Li’s money in matching donations, Heidi gave Taylor a place at her table for a giant Hillary Clinton event where Taylor actually got to meet Hillary. TM is a real snake in the grass.

    That post was written by someone named Christine, but TM was overly present in the comments, and both of them (Christine & TM) were posting some very nasty attacks at the other commenters. Christine had to keep trying to explain what she meant by her post….not very well written when 90% of the readers took it “wrong” and the comments were worse than a food fight.

    They, like all non-PUMAs, were so off-base and inaccurate in their claims. Seems TM just trusts those who post on her site to know what they’re talking about. It looks like she has about 10 people who converse on the site these days, so all her hits must be coming from links at good blogs to the trash over there.

  136. BJ: There are very specific rules about who is eligible to hold the office of President in this country. Obama is, at the least, a dual citizen of the U.S. and Kenya. His birth certificate is something that he needs to present to prove his eligibility for the office.

    Why wouldn’t he just produce it? We all present our own whenever we’re asked; from enrolling in schools to starting a new job to prove we’re eligible to work in this country. If we can present ours regularly, he can present his for the job of POTUS.

  137. Hello everyone, being a PUMA I just got turn down by Several so called PUMA that they stated that they hated OBAMA and now they are voting for him because they say that they are true DEM no matter what. These are Hillary people that states that whatever hillary do they will do the same since Hillary is Supporting OBAMA. I still stand on my conscience AND STATE no deal at all. Most of my Latinos friends and family that are thrue Hillary fans still are going for McCain, even if th Rat obama picks Hillary to be VP that will be a NIGHTMARE!! BIG TIME. Please let me know if I and my friends are still right voting for McCain!!!

  138. To Latinos for McCain — McCain is from Arizona, and he is more of a Dem in spirit — plus he knows Latino issues well. He will be more like Hillary on all these things. They say that she will run again in 2012.

    Like you, it’s NO DEAL right now, after what they did to our candidate Hillary. Your Dem values are inside YOU. Those can never change.
    Repubs on the far right are sacred of McCain. He is a reformer. He really will make some major ethical reforms in Washington. And he wants to help the poor! He knows we are heading for 1929 here — that is why he says Country First. So, four years is a great thing. Mccain is not about “stardom” and fake seals.

    He’s real. I wish we could have Hillary and McCain. He could solve the war — she could get us back in order here. All the good the Clintons did — all that money is gone — and someone told me yesterday we owe China now. Guess who is going to be waltzing away from all these problems.

    The next President is going to be inheriting the biggest mess since the 30’s. No time for stardom right now. It’s not practical, given the way things are here. We really need somebody who is smart at the helm — Mccain has heroes like Colin Powell as friends — and his idol is Teddy Roosevelt. Boy was Roosevelt a great Pres. For the new progressive party of 1912. Times were just like these….back then…

  139. I meant SCARED of McCain! Not Sacred. Oooops. All of Washington is scared of McCain I bet. He’s worked for ETHICS reform for years! It was his idea after a bad thing happened with the Keating bank scandal.

    He has a good heart, not a void where a heart should be.
    Believe me. He’s good. All he needs to do for PUMA is let Carly inform him about Women’s needs. He’ll come around. He already has this huge thing called the Lexington Project to create jobs here.

    Also– I believe his value system is to go after the bad guys and there are some pretty big bad guys in both the Dem and Repub Party who have REALLY let our country down. What I love about McCain is that he is for small business — me too! I can’t stand the WallMartification of US. I like all the little regional specialties — if you want to see the WallM dude —d’O —- http://www.obamatruth.org

    Latinos can see what happened at La Junta to their Hermanos.
    It’s an Othing. Very bad. The patient dumping — that’s pretty bad too and that was her deal. New Yorker’s Lizza was spot on.

  140. To DownriverDem:

    We have though about it. You guys thought it too and believed that was the argument that would get us behind Obama. Read my lips: NO DEAL

  141. fuzzybeargville
    No, I’m not a HOUND or a troll – although I’m getting used to being called that because, just as happened at the Obama sites, I’m not toeing the party line. I’m using simple, mathematical logic: 40% is less than 50%. And 18 million did vote for Obama. PUMAs do themselves no good by ignoring the facts. It simply makes it easy for people like Rendell to dismiss us as cranks.

    And the Obamanuts swore they wouldn’t vote for Hillary long, long, long before Hillary supporters started saying they wouldn’t vote for Obama. I know, because I used to deride them for their “I’m going to pick up my marbles and not play anymore”. I was sure I could vote for Obama until I started to learn who he is, not whom the media painted him as and realized just how dangerous and incompetent he is.

  142. I must run, but about that % of Dems preferring HIllary for Pres, see some links and sites at turndownobama.com.

    Click on the blue “9 million”.

    I’ve got a link that leads to the pdf of the actual raw data of the June survey. There were some odd versions of the stories out. mine has quoate also by Craig Della Penna from his blog aboaut how big a lnadlide all thsi can add up to.

  143. Sorry for the typos. Computer problems.

    All you evil publicitsts, politico and cnn seem to be out-sourcing their comments sectons to “From the blogs” — which lists only bot blogs, not y’alls.

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