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Monday: Save the Party. Nominate Hillary.

Save Us Hillary

Save Us Hillary

This is a year of wonders.  We saw a woman take on two foes, the Republicans and her own party, and watched her fight valiantly til the bitter end.  We heard the media tear her down and dehumanize her while her popularity gained strength.  We witnessed screaming demands that she withdraw from the races while she was winning them, sometimes by more than 40 points.

A person like that is a force of nature.  A person like that defies and exceeds our expectations.  A person like that breaks the boundaries of her sex, her generation, her culture.

A person like that can’t get her name in nomination?  WTF?

I don’t think this needs to be said but I’m going to say it anyway.  The decision to maneuver Hillary out of nomination is going to destroy the party.  There’s no way you can ignore the wishes of the biggest and swing states and her decisive victories in them and expect that that it won’t come back to bite you in the end.  I’m sorry.  That’s just not possible.  I can’t imagine my delegates or California’s delegates going to the convention and voting “present”, can you?  “Yes, New York and Pennsylvania and West Virginia, we *know* you voted for the other guy.  But please stop being so fatiguing and irritating and just yield to Alaska this one time.  God, you Northeasterners are so f$%&ing stubborn.”

No, I’m sorry, but our states did not spend millions and millions of dollars in primaries just so some pretentious committee of power hungry toads could strip them of any input.  Every voter in the states where Clinton won decisive primary victories should be outraged by the party swindling them out of their money and their vote.  And if the party thinks we’re just going to roll over and get with the program, they’ve got another thing coming.  They will either have to accept a nomination for Hillary Clinton in Denver or they will suffer the consequences in November.  If Barack Obama is really the people’s choice, he has nothing to fear from the delegates putting Hillary’s name in nomination for president at the convention in Denver. Either he has all of his ducks in a row or he doesn’t.  Time to stop acting like a prince and start acting like a leader.

A roll call vote is just symbolic and is insufficient to acknowledge this season of wonders.  Nothing short of a nomination will honor her or us.  But the question is, does Hillary know that this is what we want?  While the DNC is pressuring her to give in and go away, does her negotiating team know that the only way the party can confer legitimacy on its nominee is if that person is chosen fairly through an authentic nomination process?  Well, maybe now is the time to let her know how you feel.  Now is the time to ask her to be your champion once more.

Send her and Harold Ickes a letter.  Let them know that they are the only ones who can save the party and the election from the Republicans.  True loyalty to the party is demonstrated by not giving in.

Update on the debt from Heidi Li: A Brief Explanation of the Current State of Clinton’s Campaign Debt. Bottom line is that the numbers that are being reported today do not include the massive fundraising drive of the the July 4th holiday.  But if you want to make sure there is NO outstanding debt at all, you can still contribute to settle what’s left.  That leaves Clinton in a stronger bargaining position both now and in the future.  BTW, if it’s not all paid off by now, part of the blame is Obama’s.  He apparently hasn’t been flogging his contributors vigorously.


112 Responses

  1. Off Topic, but an FYI
    From the Denver Group
    Marc Rubin and Heidi Li Feldman’s scheduled interview with Morning Q radio, Interview scheduled for Monday July 21, 2008 from 10:15-10:45.

    Pass it On

  2. This bears repeating: “If Barack Obama is really the people’s choice, he has nothing to fear from the delegates putting Hillary’s name in nomination for president at the convention in Denver.”

    Riverdaughter: Thank you for continually being proactive and suggesting tangible things to do besides reading and commenting. That’s one of the many things I love about your posts and your site.

  3. The scroll on CNN this morning said that Hillary’s campaign is still 25.2 million dollars in debt. I thought the gap was nearly closed.

  4. steveeboy, on July 21st, 2008 at 8:13 am Said:

    Who mentioned anything about it being BO’s fault. It wasn’t mathematically impossible for her to catch up until he stole her delegates and was given delegates he didn’t earn.

    the deadbeat that has stiffed her vendors and couldn’t even manage her campaign finances is really the second coming of FDR and only she can save the party in places like California–where polls show obama beating mccain by 24%!!!
    And you want a guy who let his constituents live without heat for 6 weeks as president. Do you know that because of his negligence and his other slumlord friend a 10 year old African American boy died.

  5. steveeboy, on July 21st, 2008 at 8:13 am Said:

    I just had to also mention that BO also ended May in debt. You might not have know this but it is true. And for the record, no one is forcing BO to tell his supporters to pay off her debt. It is him who has been asking Hillary’s supporters to donate money to him. Did you know that Hillary raised 4.6 million for BO in July. If he had so much money and many donors like you, then why did he ask her to fundraise for him and why is he asking her donors to donate to him?

  6. One point: It’s Harold Ickes.

  7. Cnn is wrong on that figure

    Update on Hillary’s debt at:

    Monday, July 21, 2008
    RETIRE THE DEBT: A brief explanation of the current state of Senator Clinton’s campaign finances

  8. FYI, this is the actual list of certified delegates, state by ste, per the DNC for the convention.


  9. “If Barack Obama is really the people’s choice, he has nothing to fear from the delegates putting Hillary’s name in nomination for president at the convention in Denver. Either he has all of his ducks in a row or he doesn’t. Time to stop acting like a prince and start acting like a leader.”

    The only thing about this is, you are assuming the delegates will actually vote the will of the people in the area’s they represent. With the strong-arming behind the scenes, I do not trust that will happen even if she is put in nomination. It certainly didn’t happen with the superdelegates. I think there is so much bullying and threatening going on to “line up” that most delegates will do what they are told. Am I wrong about this?

  10. fif–at least they will have to go on record as defying the will of the voters in their districts. That’s important when we fight to kick their sorry asses out the next time they’re up for re-election

  11. gary, exactly. They want a symbolic vote, so there is no real paper trail on their corruption.

    Personally, I am done with Democrats. Even if Clinton were to get the nomination, I would vote for her, but no down ticket Dems. They disgust me.

  12. Mawm: ditto. Despite the weakness of the Dems in so many election cycles, I still believed they were the “good guys” for the most part. How disillusioning to realize they are weak AND corrupt. I really do feel homeless.

    The debt news is also discouraging. I read the explanation at Heidi’s site, but there was a lot of effort in June too–how could the numbers barely budge? Or is it just another media effort to bury Hillary by making her look inadequate and desperate? Why isn’t her campaign releasing information about her supporters’ efforts? Makes me feel blah.

  13. I agree with fif — I think the fix is in, and delegates have been bullied into switching sides.

  14. Fif, Mawm: I feel the same way. It is disillusioning and unsettling to learn that the Democratic leaders (on the whole) are no better than their Republican counterparts. Spineless, self-serving, blowhards.

  15. I know that all of us are protective of Hillary, but we need to write her and tell her that we will not be disenfranchised AGAIN if her name is not on the ballot and submitted for nomination – that all of those delegates chosen by Hillary voters represent us,all 18 million of us. The primaries and the caucuses were not simply beauty contests – our votes should count. She needs to be in there defending democracy – stand up and do not fold.

  16. It appears the DNC is going to do what it wants, regardless, this is from the actual convention site: Does this sound like there will be any roll call vote? It sure doesn’t to me.

    Primetime Convention activities Monday, August 25 through Wednesday, August 27 will continue to be held at the Pepsi Center. The final day of the Convention on Thursday, August 28, including the nomination acceptance speech of Senator Barack Obama, will be held at INVESCO Field at Mile High, also located in downtown Denver. Daytime Convention events, including meetings of the Democratic caucuses and councils will continue to be held at the Colorado Convention Center

  17. At this point a roll call vote at the convention wouldn’t represent the way the voters voted anyway — too many delegates have announced they have switched candidates.

  18. Just saw footage of BO’s plane and it’s logo/message – “Change We Can Believe In”. My first reaction: Oh, c’mon! You’ve got to be kidding! The state of this election – not sure whether to laugh or weep. Seriously. It’s THAT bad.

  19. plural, I don’t think the pledged delegates can change until after the first vote, unless she releases them, which she hasn’t. that’s kind of the point to…to show everyone that it is the superdelegates that are picking the nominee…that’s why they want to avoid it. they want it to look like everyone is united behind obama.

  20. Have you folks formed your own political party yet?

    There is still time.

  21. RD, could you do a post on The chosen ones army of 300 foreign policy advisers, 300!? The guy can’t string a coherent sentence and no wonder he needs to be spoon fed about his policy and response. I am not sure people can vote for this army of advisers in place of the candidate. I am sure he will never say the buck stops here. He will say “these are not the advisers I knew.” Scary and tragic given the alternative we have had.

  22. I agree with both Gary and Maum. I want every MA delegate and superdelegate to have to go on record at the Convention and state whom they are voting for. I have pretty much decided that I won’t vote for any Democrats unless they support Hillary at the Convention. I will vote for Ed O’Reilly against Kerry.

  23. “The Denver Group: A NEW MATCH OFFER EXTENDED TO THE DENVER GROUP: “Two supporters of The Denver Group have contacted us and told us that if we raise our next $2000 by midnight on July 25, they will match that accomplishment by donating $2000 as a match.”
    Posted by Heidi Li Feldman, J.D., Ph.D. at 8:07 AM”

    I think that this generous matching is a good thing so, here’s my little donation to start this new “kitty”:
    Contribution Details
    Date: July 21, 2008 8:25 AM CDT
    Amount: $10.00

    *PRRR! That felt good!!!

    Anyway, all in all, I think that everyone’s doing great since, still according to Heidi, this is what’s most needed to help clear Hillary’s debt:
    “Third, of the $10.2 million owed to vendors, $5.3 million is owed to Marc Penn, who Senator Clinton says will take a backseat to other, smaller vendors. That means that Senator Clinton needs most crucially $4.9 million.”

    4.9 million! Pffffffffff! Compared with how huge the debt started this is a drop in the bucket…WTF!!! Drop in the bucket????

    OK, it is a whole lot of a lot of dough but, as Hillary, we PUMAs know how to reach deep into whatever we have left when the going gets tough… What am I saying? PARTICULARLY when the going gets tough!

    *Pumas Roar, Rule, and Rock!

  24. From demconvention.com/democrats-throw-open-doors/

    All delegates – both pledged and unpledged – formally cast their votes at the Convention.

    Voting occurs at the Convention in a number of different ways. The Convention Chair may call for a simple voice vote: “All in favor say ‘Aye.’ All opposed say ‘No.’” Votes may also be conducted by a roll call vote of the states, either by telephone or other electronic means. After each official roll call vote, each delegate’s vote is recorded on tally sheets that are then submitted by each state delegation to the Convention Secretary. No secret ballots are permitted at any stage of the Convention’s proceedings. No vote may be cast by proxy. An alternate may only replace and cast a vote on behalf of a pledged delegate.

    Is a simple majority required during the delegate voting at the Democratic National Convention? If neither candidate receives enough votes in the first round of voting, is it possible for the ballots to go to a second, third and fourth round and so on? If so, is there a point when delegates are free to change their vote for a different candidate? Pauline, Houston TX

    Answer: All very good questions. The Convention’s Procedural Rules require that the Party’s Presidential and Vice Presidential candidates be nominated by a majority vote of the delegates. A majority is more than 50% of the total number of delegate votes that can be cast at the Convention, not merely those present and voting.

    Balloting continues until a nominee is selected. A candidate secures the nomination upon receiving a majority vote, no matter which ballot. Pledged delegates are not legally “bound” to vote for the candidate they were elected to represent. They can, and have in the past, cast a vote for another presidential candidate at the Convention.

    It is entirely possible for the vote to go to a second or third (or more) ballot and there are many examples of that in past Conventions. However, the last time more than one ballot was needed for the Presidential candidate was at the 1952 Democratic Convention and the last time the Vice Presidential voting went to more than one ballot was at the 1956 Convention. Looking to more than 50 years of history as our guide, it is likely that the Party’s nominees will be selected on the first ballot.

  25. Well, well, well. Finally the coalition is going to let Hillary know what we are doing. And I got hammered for saying that.

  26. I am also afraid that, even if Hillary makes it to a second ballot, the delegates will be so hassled to vote for Oboy that it will not be good for her. I feel ‘homeless’ as far as party goes also. Haven’t changed to Indie yet but will probably do so if HRC is not our nominee or if Oboy wins in November. Never have felt so rejected by my party. Uck!! I will be e-mailing again the SD’s from Pa. Some may want to run for Gov or Sen in 2 yrs…..will let them know it may behoove them to vote as PA Dems wanted them to.

  27. Hillary-zila,

    What are you talking about? Personally, I have written to Hillary and to Harold Ickes previously about this. Have you written to them? We are all independent agents here and we can choose to act or not to act. If you want to get something done, do it.

  28. well, well, well…

    DNC Cash Buys Bigoted, Anti-choice Propoganda

    what will Howard Dean think of next?

  29. We seem to be getting the same trolls here every day whining about why we won’t “get over it” and vote for Obama. I suggest these frantic trolls read this great post by Joseph Cannon about how we were drummed out of the Party and told our votes weren’t needed. If I had a nickel for every time an Obamabot told me Obama didn’t need my vote, I could buy a tank of gas. Obama is going to have to do without my vote no matter how many trolls scream like banshees about it.


  30. Some how….Some way….We must get the media to say…. The party is split. The DNC will never admit , we got trouble, trouble, trouble.

  31. Again it is thaat bigoted buffoon leah daughtry…she has been responsible for throwing gays under the bus because she thinks that they are too uppity about wanting the same civil rights as African Americans. she is best buds with donna and had the gay outreach guy at the DNC fired. As for Firedoglake, fuck them. they have no room to whine now after they joined the OFB shortly after super tuesday.

  32. leah daughtry is another black religious leader who thinks she can hide behind her victimhood as an african american and at the same time bash other marginalized groups like gays and women. She is defended by “progressives” like pam spaulding and amanda marcotte who believe there is a hierarchy of victimhood and that being black is number one on the list. I am so sick of their shit. I’m sick of black people thinking that their bigotry and hatred is justified justs because they are black (victims)…bring on the charges of racism….They’re the ones that need to learn a thing or two about tolerance.

  33. bostonboomer

    I was told to not worry about things, we can’t doing anything about. WOW. ……….. I have donated. emailed…..phoned…..etc.

  34. Oh Boy!

    You’re sure this Obama is not worst than Bush in wrecking international relations?

    First his Brandenburg Gate speech divided the German government, then people found the idea of giving his speech at the Victory Column even worst because of the tinge of Hitler and the Nazis, now we have this:

    Obama’s Germany Itinerary Ruffles Feathers in France, UK

    Barack Obama’s visit to Berlin has upset officials in other European capitals who feel the presumptive Democratic Party presidential candidate is slighting their countries. Germany is not only to be the site of a major trans-Atlantic address, but also the place where he plans to meet the most politicians. The French and British are feeling neglected.

    Barack Obama is making Germany the major focus of his trip to Europe this week, a choice that is being viewed with some displeasure in Paris and London. One day after the Democratic Party’s presumptive presidential nominee officially announced his plan to hold a speech at the Siegesäule, or “Victory Column,” in Berlin, SPIEGEL ONLINE also obtained information about his preliminary European agenda.

    One-on-one meetings for Obama have now been confirmed with German Chancellor Angela Merkel and Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier. But so far he is only including time in his stops in Paris and London for French President Nicolas Sarkozy and British Prime Minister Gordon Brown. A decision still hasn’t been made on whether the Democratic candidate will meet with the foreign ministers of those countries.

    The source said this had caused additional irritation in government circles in Paris and London. High-ranking politicians there are already annoyed that the controversy about Obama’s desire to hold his speech at Berlin’s Brandenburg Gate had distracted attention from the purpose of his European visit — to outline his vision for trans-Atlantic relations.

    Talk about elephant in a China store.

  35. Hillary-zila,

    “Told to not worry about things…”

    Worry about anything you want! Riverdaughter is doing the things she thinks are most important. Again, if you want to get something done, do it, rather than demanding someone else do it.

  36. Gary–

    Yes, fuck firedoglake. I took my name off their e-mail action list just like I did off the DNC’s, Move-on’s and all the other Obama supporting organizations. If they were too stupid to see what he was, fuck them. It makes me sick to see the complaints from these people now. I could see what Obama was in December and January. They could have done the same basic research I did and they either chose not to or they ignored the evidence of their own eyes and ears.

    I got up kind of PO’d this morning. I have no sympathy for the Obama enablers today and I don’t think I ever will. They betrayed all of us.

  37. Morning all…RD – you are ON FIRE!

    Here is my letter to Harold Ickes:

    Dear Harold,

    This is just a quick note to let you know that if Hillary does not place her name in nomination at the Convention, there is no chance whatsoever that a Democratic President will be elected in November. We Democrats are fed up with the un-democratic actions of our party. The corruption of the DNC is unbelievable to us. The disenfranchisement of Florida and Michigan was absolutely mind-blowing. Now both of those big swing states are going to go to McCain. And you can forget about Ohio and Pennsylvania – they won’t vote for a guy who belongs to the church of God Damn America. McCain will win this in a blowout.

    As for election integrity, thanks to the RBC and its idiotic actions, and yes, I blame you too, the Democrats risk losing the moral high ground to the Republicans. Have you all lost your minds? This is all for the sake of a man who thinks there are 58 states and he’ll be President for 8-10 years. Is he smarter than a fifth-grader?

    There is no chance the DNC will succeed in making Barack Obama President. I and my fellow PUMAs have voted straight D for our whole lives, but Barack Obama is the worst excuse for a candidate I have ever seen. We have the one we’ve been waiting for already – Hillary Clinton. She is the very definition of Presidential.

    We don’t want her as Vice President. We need her at the top of the ticket. We have real problems in this country and she is ready to get them solved. Obama can’t find his behind with both hands and a map.

    We understand why Hillary feels she has to support Obama, but her supporters will not follow her lead. This man is not fit to lead the country, and you know that John McCain isn’t either.

    There is only one choice for true Democrats this year: Hillary Rodham Clinton. Please let her know that.

    Hillary. There is no substitute.

    Signed it with my name and “PUMA Democrat.” 🙂

  38. bostonboomer……..demanding!!! How about bring attention to….advising ……trying to be helpful. Demanding!!!!

  39. I have updated my Hillary delegate friend here in Wa State about our efforts–mainly Denver Group, but how many of us are holding out. Silence at first. Then I finally heard a short (totally uncharacteristic) response that “she didn’t agree with the actions of PUMA. And that she was taking a break from politics till August because she was burned-out.

    This from a delegate that beat out hundreds of others to represent Hillary?

    I was stunned (and depressed)

  40. Imagine. The image of a million Germans screaming for a charismatic speaker at a rally at this site. Doesn’t this just boggle the mind?! It is profoundly disturbing.

    The Siegessäule is located about a kilometer down the Strasse des 17. Juni from the Brandenburg Gate. His speech is set to begin at 7 p.m. and Berlin is expecting a massive number of Obama fans to show up — between 10,000 and a million according to one city official quoted in the Berlin daily Tagesspiegel.

    Still, even as the issue of his speech’s location has now been settled, a number of politicians in Berlin are still dissatisfied with the site. The Siegessäule — or Victory Column — was erected in memory of Prussia’s victories over Denmark (1864), Austria (1866) and France (1870/71). The column originally stood in front of the Reichstag, Germany’s parliament building, but was moved by Adolf Hitler to its current location in 1939 to make way for his planned transformation of Berlin into the Nazi capital “Germania.”

    “The Siegessäule in Berlin was moved to where it is now by Adolf Hitler. He saw it as a symbol of German superiority and of the victorious wars against Denmark, Austria and France,” the deputy leader of the Free Democrats, Rainer Brüderle, told Bild am Sonntag. He raised the question as to “whether Barack Obama was advised correctly in his choice of the Siegessäule as the site to hold a speech on his vision for a more cooperative world.”

    Andreas Schockenhoff of Chancellor Angela Merkel’s Christian Democrats said, “the Siegessäule in Berlin is dedicated to a victory over neighbors who are today our European friends and allies. It is a problematic symbol.”

    And, now this!

    Politico reports:

    A Megachurch forum

    Everybody in the country, from minority journalists to labor groups to Mike Bloomberg, would like to host a joint forum between Obama and McCain.

    So it says something about both candidates’ hopes and fears about the Evangelical vote that the only joint forum they’ve accepted is at Rick Warren’s Megachurch August 16.

    For McCain, it’s part of the Bush base he hasn’t nailed down, despite his positions, on paper, well to the right of Obama’s on social issues. For Obama, Evangelicals — and particularly young Evangelicals — offer him an opening into what used to be the solid GOP coalition.

  41. MABlue,

    I wonder why the emphasis on Germany anyway? I don’t understand why the media is giving him all this publicity either. The entire episode is an embarrassment.

  42. bostonboomer – I totally agree with you. F&ck them. They could have fought for Hillary, but they were too in love with The One.

    Thank Jeebus for Alegre, the Confluence and so many others who had the courage to strike out on their own…

  43. bboomer, exactly. when I brought up these concerns over there in february, I was told, albeit politlely, to get lost. when I persisted I was told I was no longer welcome. I too am feeling quite angry lately…the reason I haven’t posted in a couple days. I think I need a day or two off…

  44. Hillary-zila,

    Whatever. We all do what we can. I guess your thing is “advising.” Go ahead, advise away then.

  45. 2 emails out – 1 from me, 1 from my son.

    Hillary or McCain – they decide.

  46. That is what I have to do every so often, go on my own “sabbatical”. When I read the media coverage of this no nothing, praising him, fawning over him, elevating him to a status he does not deserve, I find myself shreiking.

    These columnists and blogsites like FDL are run by people of immense intelligence. How can they just sit there and buy this charade? It boggles the mind.

  47. Gary,

    The very first thing that set off my “spidey-sense” about Obama was when he made a statement very early about how the baby boomers were still refighting the battles of the ’60s and how it was time we stepped aside. I had never heard a presidential candidate dismiss a massive voting group before. At DK, that statement by Obama iniated a real generational battle, and the younger Obamabots clearly let us baby boomers know that our votes wouldn’t be needed.

    But the final straw for me was the McClurkin episode. I was beyond shocked that Obama would even consider having this man represent him, and then by Obama’s stubbornness in going ahead with it despite loud protests. That was when I really began to look into Obama’s record and realized that I could never vote for him. The most important issue for me is preserving and expanding our rights and freedoms as American. I could never support a candidate who lets bigots speak for him.

    It’s bad enough that Democrats don’t have the guts to fight for LGBT rights. Even Barney Frank was willing to cut trans people out of the hate crimes bill. I have no more patience with these cowards. And for African Americans to support bigotry against another group is outrageous, IMHO. But what did I see at DK, but young Obamabots defending Obama for letting McClurkin help him win black evangelical votes. And so the LGBT community went under the bus with the baby boomers.

    Obama is a worse divider than George W. Bush.

  48. This was just advertised on Fox News

  49. Does anyone else feel like they are watching a movie about this primary and starring a B lister who is forever being coached on how to act?

  50. And Gary, take some days off if you want. I’m not teaching this week, and I have a couple of posts that I’m working on. I’ve missed being able to contribute to The Confluence.

  51. madamab,

    Your letter to Ickes is magnificent. I sent one too, but yours is so much better. I love it. I’m grateful for being able to read your comments at TL and that you decided to come here too. If we all stick together I believe we can make a difference. In fact, we already have. Look how much has happened since PUMA was born on June 1–less than 2 months ago!

  52. Pat,

    Everyday I wake up and wonder if I’m having a nightmare that just won’t end.

  53. What the Obambots fail to understand is that we would feel exactly the same even if the other candidate he steamrolled was Biden or Dodd. The injustice perpetrated by the DNC to secure this nomination over any qualified candidate who stood in his way would have brought out the same feelings in our approach as PUMAs. In this instance, it just happened to be Hillary Clinton but it would have been applied to any other candidate who came this close.

  54. Carol, on July 21st, 2008 at 10:25 am Said:

    “I am going to offer you change but not really”

  55. Denver is sure to prove interesting. Far more than I think we could imagine. A divided party is in the offing and the DNC has only itself to blame. Middle America won’t take this one without some fallout.

  56. bostonboomer, on July 21st, 2008 at 10:30 am Said:

    Your letter to Ickes is magnificent. I sent one too, but yours is so much better. I love it. I’m grateful for being able to read your comments at TL and that you decided to come here too. If we all stick together I believe we can make a difference. In fact, we already have. Look how much has happened since PUMA was born on June 1–less than 2 months ago!


    BB is absolutely right.

    There IS great worth in the work that you all do.

    It reminds soooo many others that they’re not alone, despite the buffetting of pro-obama crap received from the MSM on a daily basis.

    It’s courage to stand up and say “I am NOT a racist because I won’t back Obama.”

    To even have to defend yourself against that ridiculous frame of mind is ludicrous. disgusting!

    Keep up the work y’all…you give piece of mind, and hope. 🙂

  57. I have been raking my brains to find an answer to Lambert’s question. I’m still coming up with a NO but maybe I’m too young to remember or “I don’t know much about History

    Can Anybody Else Remember A (Presumptive) Nominee Taking A Foreign Tour?

    Maybe my memory is failing, but I can’t call to mind an example that’s similar to Obama’s foreign tour — especially to a war zone. Politics stops at the water’s edge, and all that. Did Kerry do this? Gore? Clinton? Bush? Dole? Bush?

    If it’s a new thing, and yet its newness is not even remarked upon… Well, that would be remarkable. Or not.

    Maybe someone here knows better or we are witnessing the greatest media enabling job in the history of democracy.

  58. If it’s a new thing, and yet its newness is not even remarked upon… Well, that would be remarkable. Or not.

    MABlue, you’re right. The greatest media enabling job.. Who says they are doing their real jobs? It seems to me that his inadequacy is answered by yet another glitzy marketing campaign — this time it is the foreign tour. Symbols over substance. Why is everybody else indulging him in this charade? I don’t know. All the more reason for us to say to him, “you come to us — we the people have the keys to your fiefdom. “

  59. I was just visiting over at Corrente and was bummed by a post stating that Obama has clinched the foreign policy thing by his little jaunt around the ME and Europe. Maybe the snark meter was so high I couldn’t read it but, if not, I’m surprised that folks actually fell for that charade. Oy f#ckin’ vey.

  60. When can we have Hillary back?

  61. Hi, I didn’t have a chance to really read everything yesterday and haven’t been able to read the comments here today (gotta get Mom ready and over to Physical Therapy) so I am not speaking out of context here, nut I feel that it is really important to say that 1) Hillary is indeed a force of nature and an amazing political animal, who should be at head of this country, as we know it and 2) we, IMO, are not just fighting to save the Democratic Party, but our country as well.

    IMO Howard Dean, London-hedge fund manager Al Gore and Pelosi don’t really care that a Democrat wins as much as they care that the next president, D or R, will continue Bush’s policies, which Reagen initiated before & thoroughout his Alzheimer’s fog, of unregulated trade and industry.

    Our Democratic “Leaders” share a vision with all corporate elite of a global economy where nations are irrelevant and basically powerless, and where the Dark Ages have returned to all those who are not in the upper corporate eschelons.

  62. ….so I hope that I am not speaking out of context here, but I feel that it is really important to say that 1) Hillary is….

  63. Katmoon,

    There is nothing on the site advising on the status of Hill’s debt. Where are you looking?

  64. Save the Party. Nominate Hillary.

    WORD. Save the country and the world too.

  65. Elixir, on July 21st, 2008 at 11:10 am Said:
    I was just visiting over at Corrente and was bummed by a post stating that Obama has clinched the foreign policy thing by his little jaunt around the ME and Europe. Maybe the snark meter was so high I couldn’t read it but, if not, I’m surprised that folks actually fell for that charade. Oy f#ckin’ vey.

    Don’t believe it!

  66. I guess “nut I feel” is okay too……

  67. MABlue

    Merkel is one unhappy camper. I can’t wait to see how this thing unfolds. HA!

  68. Can someone please tell me how much debt Hillary has left?

  69. WORD. Save the country and the world too.

    Donna—SO agreed! That’s why they SO didn’t want her. It is a HUGE disappointment if they don’t GET THEIR WAY!!! (foot stompin’ temper tantrum)

  70. Went and looked at the list of delegates for MN and someone: the Honerable Susan Gaertner a Hillary delegate from Betty McCullom’s district.

    Susan Gaertner was elected Ramsey County Attorney in 1994 and has been re-elected ever since . She is only the fourth person to hold the office since 1933 and is the first woman to hold the office.

    I wonder if she has further ambition, since she has finished all this:

    As county attorney Gaertner has initiated a number of successful programs to target public safety problems, prevent crime and improve the quality of life in Ramsey County.

    She established the Joint Domestic Abuse Prosecution Unit in a groundbreaking partnership with the Saint Paul City Attorney’s Office. The unit focuses on domestic assault cases where children are present.

    Gaertner initiated the innovative Truancy Intervention Program (TIP) to address a serious problem with chronic absenteeism in the schools.

    Now in its 12th year, TIP has served more than 28,000 students, contributing to a dramatic increase in school attendance and graduation rates. She created a special Gangs and Guns Prosecution Unit in response to a growing concern about violent crime committed with guns, often by gang members.

  71. lonnette33, on July 21st, 2008 at 11:26 am Said:

    I would like to know how much debt she originally had because there are too many numbers being thrown around. There was 20million, then 23,2 or 5 million, then 30 million and then 25 million.

  72. Hillary is between a rock and a hard place.

    The DNC was blaming her for spliting the party.

    Hillary accepts Obama as the presumtive nominee and asks her follower to accept and unite behind him.
    She has even campaign for him.

    Hillary’s followers will not accept Obama,even though Hillary has done all she can to unite the party.

    Hillary’s followers will nominate her, but the rules state she must, willing accept and sign. If she signs or not.

    WOW !!! What will the DNC do to her, what the media do to her.

    You have to LOVE her.

  73. I’m still confused about the debt. The link in the post was to a nonexistent post at Heidi LI; the link in one of the comments above just led to a Denver Group post. WTF is going on? We were originally told the debt was @ 21 million, but that HRC was viewing her own 10-12mill as a loan, leaving, acc to my math, 10 million or so….as of a month ago!!! Now, someone above just said that the Penn 5 million is on the shelf, but that she still needs 4.9 million. If all that is true, the debt meter hasn’t budged in a month. How can that be if so many have given so much? Or has the giving been in the thousands (not bad for us average folk) when millions are needed? Is it asking too much to have some documented data on HRC”s debt???

  74. […] at The Confluence has a great new post up this morning: Monday: Save the Party. Nominate Hillary. In it she writes: “If Barack Obama is really the people’s choice, he has nothing to fear from […]

  75. Rise Hillary Rise!!!

  76. Check it out. It’s a DNC campaign to target “Hil’s Holdouts” Fowler & Germond, now Brazile. They must really be worried.

    Note To Hil’s Holdouts: It’s Time To Unify As One Democratic Party
    Donna Brazile 7/17/2008

    The race for the Democratic nomination has been over for a month, but some passionate Clinton supporters, who speak out or send irate emails to me and many other super delegates, are still anxious to fight. Many of them seem unable to accept that it’s over.

    How many ways do these Hillary delegates, voters and supporters need to hear it before they get it? Sen. Barack Obama is the party’s nominee. He won. He will get to choose his running mate. Obama sets the agenda for the convention, and, while I understand their passion in wanting Hillary to be on the ticket and to have a prominent role at the convention, it’s not her decision.


    My reply at the site:

    Note to DNC Disenfranchisers. The delegates haven’t voted yet. Obama is not the nominee. We won’t support your electoral fraud or your illegitmate candidate. We do hope the DNC gets what it deserves in November:


  77. I think that the media’s corporate owners may steal the election for Obama. That’s why they keep saying that they don’t need us. They will rig the general election as well. The Dems are corporate whores!!!!

  78. What is going on today? Why is everyone so down? I was out of the loop this weekend, but my goodness, what happened?…

    Anyway, I saw part of Obama’s media tour in the middle east. I found his answer to the CBS’ correspondent in Afhganistan (sic) (you know; the really pretty one) to be very revealing. She asked him “do you ever have any doubts?” and a clearly unprepared Barry responded “No, never”…
    You have to see it, but it showed me how truly insecure Obama really is…which explains alot of his behavior. He is the flipped side of a coin of GW Bush…way to go DNC…

  79. Donna Brazile is another one of those who told the voting blocks of …..senoirs, blue collars, and women, they are not needed.

  80. Donna Brazile told me she saw the Clinton’s “inner demons” and that they were racists and that blacks “kept their asses in office”. I may have to republish those emails.

  81. Hillary-z

    Donne Brazile is about as useful as a screen door on a submarine.

  82. Just when when we think we’re down, we have Donna’s utter cluelessness to keep us motivated. Thanks, Donna, we needed that!

  83. Destardi, Bostonboomer – Thank you! It’s great to see everyone here and read your comments and contributions.

    Bostonboomer, looking forward to reading your posts again.

    I know it’s so disheartening to see the media fall all over themselves to protect their fake Darling, Barack Obama. But I think we need to be reminded of this quote again:

    “First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win.”

    Never give up! Never Surrender!


  84. Kendell and all, I think that the corporate media doesn’t see a difference between Obama and McCain—both fools will continue the Reaganomics-Bush strategies of riching-up the corporationally affluent and dumbing down the intelligent masses.

    I always expected that McCain would “choose” a real corporate royal, say Bloomberg, to be his Cheney. But it seems that if we don’t REALLY work to get Hillary in, they can play us any way they want to, now that its so clear they’ve got Obama willing to play the game with them.

    WE have got to get Hillary nominated, and THEN our work REALLY starts. WE have got to make sure that she is elected. WE THE PEOPLE.

  85. I think platying upto the Germans over the British/French hs more to do with “colonialism”.

    Barack has been against the Britsh since his Kenyan paternal grandfather ws a cook in the British army.

    And Kenya gets a lot of investment from Germany.

    And his kenyan half-sister Auma, even though she “lives part time/dually in Britain” lived in Germany.

    But more important, his cousin Raila Odinga studied in East Germany before the German unification… East germany was a socialt country trhen..probably lived in Berlin.

    Thank god for Angela Merkel being a strong German leader…lest one forgets, Germany was once a training haven for Arab terrorists while being attending their universities as students

  86. Obama’s comment…….”do you ever have any doubts”? That is scarey. It reminds me of a George Bush answer.

  87. Here’s my letter.

    Dear Harold,

    I hope this letter finds you well since we all witnessed your head exploding on live television during the Rules and Bylaws Committee meeting. That reaction was understandable, but there is nothing that will or can quell the contemplated action of denying Sen. Clinton’s name being put into nomination in Denver.

    To fail to take this simple act with an antecedent roll call vote is tantamount to driving a wedge into the heart of the Democratic Party. What is even more mystifying is to deny Sen. Clinton’s nomination and roll call is a gratuitous act that can have its basis in either ego gratification or fear on the part of the Obama forces.

    If this is indeed pandering to the ego gratification of Sen. Obama, I must ask, what will be the next act in the never ending sojourn to feed the beast? If it is fear on the part of the Obama campaign, that emotion alone belies the hollowness of his nomination borne of wheezing and crawling across the finish line of the democratic primaries.

    Throughout the primary I had the sense that Sen. Clinton was being shunned or shuffled off to the side by the press and pundits because of some type of entitlement of Sen. Obama. While politically incorrect, it seemed as if black trumps being a woman and experience, motivation, and conviction be damned in the process. Well, arrogance and entitlement are two characteristics that have no ability to be prettified by cosmetics and perfume — they are two of the ugliest of human emotions that always seem to shine through. To try and appease these basest of emotions by overstepping Sen. Clinton in the roll call vote is nothing more than feeding a beast that will become all too apparent to the electorate.

    Sen. Clinton was seen as scrappy, unrelenting and a street fighter during the primary. That moniker has served many politicans quite honorably throughout the ages, but to feed the beast of entitlement and arrogance is a disappointment to me and the 18 million of others who expect more and better from Sen. Clinton. I would rather see Sen. Clinton’s efforts to have her name placed in nomination defeated in Denver than see her grovel to some fake show of unity to assuage Obama’s entitlement and arrogance. Defeat for principles long outshines acquiescence for expediency. The American people will know, appreciate and remember the difference.

    Please do not disappoint me.


    A PUMA Democrat

  88. The term “party discipline” is always highly motivating to me!

  89. Obama’s comment of …..No never…to…..do you ever have any doubts. That is scarey. It reminds of a George Bush answer.

  90. Prolix – Nicely done!

    Obama does reek of entitlement and arrogance; add to that the stink of corruption and the putrescence of pettiness, and phew! What a toxic stench!

    This man is utterly, completely unfit to lead the nation, and everyone but the DNC (and NBC) seems to be beginning to realize it.

  91. Perhaps if Obama were to, God forbid again, “win” the GE, London hedge fund manager and democratic royal Gore would be his POTUS? Or Pelosi’s husband?

  92. I mean VPOTUS.

  93. Brazile is obviously too stupid to realize is that we will not vote for Obama because that will embolden the thugs in the DNC like her. We will fight to distroy the election rigging fascists and taking Obama down is one of our methods of doing so. So Danna can f*ck herself!!!!! We are willing to put up with McCain in order to purge the DNC of her, Dean, etc..


  94. Madamab, thanks, yesterday in reading the comments that his next trip to Europe will be as CinC solidified why I find him so repugnant. It is the entitlement and arrogance. His entire career is nothing more than a “serial user.” He has run for higher office every three years for the last twelve and everyone who couldn’t help with the climb went under the bus.

    He’s utterly repugnant.

  95. I’m surprised there hasn’t been more shrieking over the 2012 domain name buy by Clinton more…of course, everyone’s too busy watching Obama on his road trip…

    Sooner or later though, you’ll hear some of the cries coming from them and the media, as I mention in this post:

    Hillary Clinton’s 2012 Domain Buy: A “Flow Chart” of Scenarios That Cross the Mind

    In which I also comment about how the media will manipulate anything she chooses to do at this point…

  96. HRC reported raising 2.7 million in June, after she suspended her campaign.
    Has any other candidate raised millions for an inactive campaign?
    Yet, she loaned herself 1 million.
    If she pays off the debt, she’s free to fundraise and campaign her heart out BHO.
    Donating to an inactive campaign is a tremendous show of strength and loyalty and a real boost to HRC’s bargaining power.
    Sometimes playing politics means knowing how to have it both ways.

  97. “Dear Mr Ickes

    I have just about given up on the very undemocratic Democratic party. My current plan is to not vote for ANY democratic candidate in the coming election and then to change my affiliation, despite having voted a mostly straight Democratic ticket since 1976 (only exception was for Reagan). It’s obvious that the DNC and their totally unqualified un-democratically selected candidate Obama have a moral compass that points towards their wallets, and I refuse to support this corruption of the party.

    Fix the nomination rules to mirror the general election voting rules, put ALL of the primaries on the same day, and let the ELECTED candidate, Hillary Clinton, be the the Democratic party presidential candidate in the November election. If Obama is on the ticket, I will be voting for McCain and changing my party affiliation.

    In any case, Richardson will NEVER get my vote again. The Democratic party is truly run by power hungry self-aggrandizing opportunists these days. It’s disgusting.”

    PUMA Democrat in Los Alamos, NM

    Preemptive apology for a rant that’s been building all weekend:

    I can’t believe that Obama is saying that he’ll bring home the troops and then in the next breath he’s going to send them off to Afghanistan. Yes, Afghanistan should not be run by terrorists. They shouldn’t be growing drug crops either. Their sovereignty should be respected. A big escalation in Afghanistan is not going to help our somewhat shaky allies in the Pakistani govt, especially if we have to cross their border (which we will) to go after Bin Laden, who apparently has a lot of support in regions of Pakistan. We’ll pull out of Iraq and hopefully avoid a confrontation with Iran, who is verging on nuclear WMD, and jump headlong into a confrontation with Pakistan, who is definitely nuclear and not all that stable.

    Is this what anti-war people are hoping for, when they say bring our troops home? I think not!

    BTW, I love this site!

  98. I’m late to the party – my PUMA cub left with her dad for 2 weeks early this AM to Puerto Rico (my heart’s heavy but I know she’s happy and on a happy vacation – but ugh!) , anyway had a little work to do & now I have some time to catch up:

    If Barack Obama is really the people’s choice, he has nothing to fear from the delegates putting Hillary’s name in nomination for president at the convention in Denver.

    AMEN & HALLELUJIAH to that!

    If Obama won this fair & square, there would have been UNITY SCHMOONITY a long time ago from us. PUMA would not even exist had Obama & DNC acted correctly. We would accept Hillary’s loss eventually and support the nominee like we did Kerry & the rest of the loser brigade.

    BUT CHEATING TO GET THERE is not Democracy. ANd the DNC & Obama campaign KNOW THEY CHEATED – and they’ll keep cheating to cover their collective asses.

    But PUMAs won’t let them.

  99. RD – Thanks for the inspiration.

    madamab and Prolix – Great job.

    Now, I’m going to go rip Donna Brazile a new one.

    Puma Power

  100. pm317 I read that the majority of those 300 foreign policy ‘advisers’ were Clinton’s people , certainly makes sense .. yeah – we are offered the substitute when the real thing is/was all ready there ! .. such a deal.

    Also – you may be interested in this piece on
    the marketing aspect of ‘his’ campaign .. sigh –
    another one that explains his betrayal on FISA, along with ATT funding the convention .. It’s pretty obvious
    that Obama’s campaign has been spying on us all along


    bostonboomer .. WOW – just wow ! – re: dnc giving cash to Leah ! disgusting .. we all said it before – “We didn’t leave the dem party ! ” – It left us .. 😦

    madamab.. 😉 – great letter !! .. but you forgot the Great Lakes in Oregon .. LoL

    Good Morning Puma’s !

  101. The only thing we have going for us is:OUR VOTE! I say to HELL with the dem. party! No MATTER WHAT WE DO, OR WHO WE WRITE TO NOThing is done to RIGHT THIS WRONG!! MY VOTE WILL GO TO JM in nov if HILLARY’S NAME is not in NOMINATION!” WE THE PEOPLE ONLY COUNT WHEN WE HAVE TO PAY TAXES!” HILLARY OR JM. “08”

  102. Hillary-zila, on July 21st, 2008 at 12:05 pm Said:
    “Obama’s comment of …..No never…to…..do you ever have any doubts. That is scarey. It reminds of a George Bush answer.”


    I already said that…10 posts ago…

  103. I went to the US federal commission mentioned in the NYTimes article, but could not find a press release out yet on June 2008.
    Apparently figures for June must be in from the campaigns to them by July 20, as figures for July must be in by August 20. Then they have to write their reports.
    NYT is obviously relying on leaks, and we all know where those come from….

  104. masslib, on July 21st, 2008 at 11:52 am Said:

    Please repost them. I don’t think people realize how ridiculous and outrageous Donna was and is.

  105. I know this is totally OT, but I wanted to reach out to riverdaughter. This is for Brooke:


    Smart Girls Rock! is an online community for girls into math, science and general geekydom.
    BrainCake is the web site of The Girls, Math & Science Partnership.
    Engineer Girl and Engineer Your Life are sites about engineering for girls.
    Inkling Magazine is a fun online science magazine written by women.
    Girl Start is another science site targeted to girls.
    Girls Go Tech is run by the Girl Scouts.
    She might be interested in reading science blogs by women too. She might enjoy, the Science Sisters blog (written by two young women) or the beauty brains (about the science of beauty products). There are many women science bloggers – I have a bunch in the blogroll of my women in science blog, linked to my name, above.

  106. Salmonrising et al,

    Sorry that I didn’t respond earlier, but right after posting early this morning had to rush out to get to a dental appt.

    At any rate, interested as most everyone to find out how “the debt” is going, I used katmoon’s link and to my surprise got me to the Denver Group. Anyway, although the first thread mentions the matching $2000 (Posted by Heidi Li Feldman, J.D., Ph.D. at 5:07 AM), the second thread in which Marc Penn is mentioned is also posted by Heidi and, as you can see by the below, it explains at length what’s up with Hillary’s debt.

    Here’s the entire text at the Denver’s Group second thread:

    ->> RETIRE THE DEBT: A brief explanation of the current state of Senator Clinton’s campaign finances
    A number of people have asked about the news that Senator Clinton’s 2008 presidential primary campaign remains $25.2 million in debt. That figure bears close scrutiny.

    First, it includes the 13.2 million dollars Senator Clinton lent her own campaign and which she has stated she is not seeking repayment for. So the actual amount left to be raised to pay debt to vendors is is approximately $12 million as of June 30. (Note that in a show of good faith, Senator Clinton lent her campaign an addition $1 million during June, to help insure that vendors will be paid and proving that she is not expecting her supporters to fund repayment of her own loans to her campaign._

    Second, note that the FEC filing and Clinton campaign reports includes only money raised through June 30 at the latest, not money raised during July which is when many people gained awareness of the significance of retiring the debt, so although I am sure it is still vital to contribute to retire the debt, the actual amount needed by Senator Clinton is less than $12 million.

    Third, of the $12 million owed to vendors, $5.3 million is owed to Marc Penn, who Senator Clinton says will take a backseat to other, smaller vendors. That means that Senator Clinton needs most crucially $6.7 million.

    $6.7 million dollars isn’t nothing. But over the course of her presidential campaign so far Senator Clinton has raised over $230 million dollars. So, I am quite confident that we can manage to contribute another $6.7 million.

    Meanwhile, Marc Penn has never said whether he will press Senator Clinton for any or all the money he claims he is owed by her campaign. Since I, for one, have asked him about this specifically repeatedly, and since Mr. Penn has not replied, I assume he will willingly forgive most if not all of the $5.3 million he is currently claiming.

    Finally, if you care to show that Senator Clinton still packs fundraising might but you are maxxed out to the primary, you might want to consider a donation to her 2012 reelection campaign. That money does not go to retire the debt but it will play a a critical role in strengthening Senator Clinton’s political position both now and in 2012. You can donate to the 2012 campaign fund here on Act Blue.

    Bottom line: $6.7 million. No problem. Let’s do it now.

    N.B. AS MENTIONED ABOVE THESE FIGURES REPRESENT A SNAPSHOT BASED ON FEC FILINGS AND THE CLINTON CAMPAIGN’S ANNOUNCEMENTS. THIS MEANS THAT THESE FIGURES DO NOT REFLECT FUNDS RAISED IN JULY. Having prepared FEC reports and filings myself, I understand entirely why the campaign cannot now release figures related to July – the month is not even over yet. So we have to be patient until we find out what remains to be raised after July, assuming the campaign releases figures for July. In the meantime, if you prefer to wait before donating further to Senator Clinton’s campaign, consider a donation to any of the other politicians or causes listed here, including Stephanie Tubbs Jones, Sheila Jackson Lee, and The Denver Group.”

    Posted by Heidi Li Feldman, J.D., Ph.D. at 5:07 AM<<-

    I sent my contribution from here by clicking on the lunch bag.

    Go PUMAs!

  107. From a post over at PumaPac

    PDOP To Submit 100,000th Just Say No Deal Email Today!

    100,000 Emails in less than a week isn’t that bad, right?

    Well, we’re not quite there yet, but we are getting close. As of 2:30 CST today, our readers have submitted over 96,000 emails to Superdelegates via the email submission initiative at our site. Read the full article, just posted:


  108. […] hires Muslim liaison – Politico.com A Top Obama Fund-Raiser Had Ties to Failed Bank – WSJ.com Monday: Save the Party. Nominate Hillary. The Confluence FrontPage Magazine The Big Bambu Zler Pagan Power Marketplace: Investing in a politician’s […]

  109. […] Monday: Save the Party. Nominate Hillary. (by riverdaughter at The Confluence) The decision to maneuver Hillary out of nomination is going to destroy the party… Every voter in the states where Clinton won decisive primary victories should be outraged by the party swindling them out of their money and their vote.  And if the party thinks we’re just going to roll over and get with the program, they’ve got another thing coming. They will either have to accept a nomination for Hillary Clinton in Denver or they will suffer the consequences in November. If Barack Obama is really the people’s choice, he has nothing to fear from the delegates putting Hillary’s name in nomination for president at the convention in Denver. […]

  110. […] Monday: Save the Party. Nominate Hillary. (by riverdaughter at The Confluence) The decision to maneuver Hillary out of nomination is going to destroy the party… Every voter in the states where Clinton won decisive primary victories should be outraged by the party swindling them out of their money and their vote.  And if the party thinks we’re just going to roll over and get with the program, they’ve got another thing coming. They will either have to accept a nomination for Hillary Clinton in Denver or they will suffer the consequences in November. If Barack Obama is really the people’s choice, he has nothing to fear from the delegates putting Hillary’s name in nomination for president at the convention in Denver. […]

  111. […] Monday: Save the Party. Nominate Hillary. (by riverdaughter at The Confluence) The decision to maneuver Hillary out of nomination is going to destroy the party… Every voter in the states where Clinton won decisive primary victories should be outraged by the party swindling them out of their money and their vote.  And if the party thinks we’re just going to roll over and get with the program, they’ve got another thing coming. They will either have to accept a nomination for Hillary Clinton in Denver or they will suffer the consequences in November. If Barack Obama is really the people’s choice, he has nothing to fear from the delegates putting Hillary’s name in nomination for president at the convention in Denver. […]

  112. I am one of those with great reservations about voting for Obama without having Hillary as his running mate.
    If Hillary is not part of the 08 ticket, I and probably millions others will “write her in”, rather than supporting Obama’s unimpressive credentials and rather goofy take on politics and healing the nation.

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