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      A few months ago I read a couple of books by the Singaporean intellectual Kishore Mahbubani. In “Has China Already Won he discusses Taiwan. The one exceptional trigger for a war involving China is Taiwan. Most of the time, the Chinese leaders have a lot of policy flexibility. There are no strong domestic lobbies to worry about. But the one issue where the Ch […]
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Dear Alice and Don, Please refund my tax dollars

Dear Mr. Fowler and Ms Germond,

I was disappointed to see that two months of our steady demands for recognition have not yielded results.  Indeed, your latest missive to we few “shrieking bands of paranoid holdouts” indicates that you still do not understand the dilema you have created within the ranks of the Democratic party.  Let me try to describe this to you slowly.

By February 5th of this year, Senator Clinton had won MI, FL, NY, NJ, CA, MA, AZ, TN, NM and AR as well as several other states.  In any other year, the contest would have been over.  Senator Obama would have graciously conceded defeat.  This year was different because more weight was given to states for which we haven’t a prayer of winning in November and Hillary had no prayer of winning in February and March.  And yet, you and your Rules and Bylaws committee persisted in withholding delegates from Clinton, killing her momentum.  Not only that, but you awarded mysterious, non-voters to Senator Obama in MI while ignoring all of the real voters in the caucus states who were unable to leave work or other responsibilities to vote for Clinton during a few precious hours.

But that is not what bothers me the most about your incredibly ill-advised letter.  The thing that bothers me the most is that as a New Jersey resident with a gifted child, I am struggling to find an appropriate educational setting for her.  This kid could be the next Edison or Andrew Wyeth but much to my dismay, the state of NJ allocated no money to gifted and talented education this year.  The individual districts are left with mandates but no funds.  There is no gifted and talented curriclum advisor in my district.  The gifted and talented teachers who are trained in the subject of these exceptional children are instructed to teach them social studies.  Math, science and other subjects are left to the discretion of the regular classroom teachers who are not aware of the eccentricities of the gifted child, their over excitabilities and their peculiar study habits.  As a result, some of these children are misdiagnosed each year as ADHD.  My own nephew dropped out of school after years of being categorized as a problem child.  He is now working as a security guard.  His IQ has been measured at 160+.

So, what does this have to do with the election?  Everything.  My state of NJ paid millions of dollars to have a primary.  I dutifully voted in that primary for Hillary Clinton.  In fact, all of the states I mentioned previously voted decisively for Hillary Clinton.  And now you are telling me to shut up, sit down and support a candidate that did not win my state.  A candidate whose name will be placed in nomination over the person who *did* win my state.  A candidate who took the ill-gotten delegates from MI who were offered to him even though he earned none of them, who took delegates who belonged to his opponents.  A candidate who does not represent my sense of fairness and ethical behavior.  A candidate who failed to defend the fourth amendment on FISA legislation, who fails to comment on the Bush administration rule redefining birth control as abortifacients, who grandstands in Europe.  A man who willfully robbed my daughter of money that might have paid for a real gifted and talented education coordinator for my state and the money to fund programs.

You are saying to me that I forked over my tax money for a sham primary.  That is what your letter is saying.  Your party has perpetrated a fraud on the states that conducted primaries and voted decisively for Hillary Clinton.  The convention hasn’t been held yet but you have pre-determined the outcome and have stripped my vote of any meaning.  This is the message you are sending to me and others.

Think very carefully if this is the message you meant.  God help you if you really mean it.


Riverdaughter at The Confluence.

112 Responses

  1. Hear, Hear!

    Bite me,


  2. Good Job, Riverdaughter!

  3. Awesome! One thing I have to say about the PUMA movement – the people who are involved are some of the smartest people I have ever (in my 20 years in Dem. politics) run across!

    Nice work – they are idiots for writing that letter – it was hostile and patronizing – not exactly traits you want to exhibit when you’re trying to win a person over to your side….

    As you say, “God help them.”

  4. BRAVO !! BRAVO !! WE want our money back to pay for education & healthcare.

    I am so sick of the back room deals and the fraud of the DNC – you disgust me.

    The DNC has every sign of an abuser.

  5. Hey Don Fowler and Alice Germond,

    Screw. You.

  6. I need Don’s email address or fax #. If anyone can help me out, please contact me. DiamondTiger12@gmail.com or stop by my website.


    Thank you Riverdaughter! Always thought that was a great name.


  7. I must confess a bit of fatigue and irritation with people who continue to carp, complain, and criticize the results of the primary and lay down conditions for their support.

    It is time to act in a mature and resourceful fashion. It’s time to put the primaries behind us. It’s time to support Barack Obama without conditions or demands.

    Who the F*** are they? I decide if and when it’s time to support him and that’s a big if–bigger now with this e-mail. I think this authoritarian stance is reprehensible and is not attractive on those who purport to be Democrats or progressives.

  8. I am so angry after reading about this email that I can only say one thing. I would never vote for Obama or this year, Democrat. I am so sick of being threatened, dismissed, admonished and vilified.

    Who the f**** do these people think they are?

  9. Wait a minute—I thought they said they didn’t need our votes. I thought they said they weren’t going to spend any time trying to get them. So, what’s with this?

  10. Between the volunteer coordinators and the DNC leaders they might manage to drive away everyone who isn’t in The CROWD before the summer is over.

    This “Presumed Nominee” idea is totally weird.

    (shaking my head disgustedly)

  11. Yes! So perfectly said. My sentiments exactly. Thank you!

  12. Dear Don:

    I, too, “must confess a bit of fatigue and irritation with people who continue to carp, complain, and criticize the results of the primary and lay down conditions for their support.”

    I asbolutely agree, Don. Those Obamabots just won’t shut up! They know their candidate lost the popular vote, and couldn’t win the nomination without gaming the red caucus states and voter intimidation elsewhere. They know he doesn’t have a chance in hell of winning in November, yet they won’t stop demanding that I vote for him! Or insisting that I’m a racist b*tch who must do penance before being allowed to raise my eyes to his greatness.

    You are absolutely right, it is fatiguing. When will it ever end?

    Yours in Pumadom,


    P.S. Did you see Hillary is still outpolling Obama against McCain in Rasmussen this week? That rocks, doesn’t it Don?!

  13. Thank you Riverdaughter! Alice & Don have pissed off the wrong PUMAS…grrrrrrrrr

  14. They clearly did not consider the blowback this e-mail would generate.

  15. Here are their e-mails:

    Don Fowler: don@fowlercommunications.com

    Alice Germond: germonda@dnc.org

    By the way, the comments on that TPM site (see Riverdaughter’s link to their letter) are sick.

  16. I followed the link to TPM about the email and read some of the comments. Real classy guys over there:

    There are NO HILLARY DEMOCRATS anymore. Just Democrats.

    Remember the French Whores, buddy. After WWII, all the whores who fucked the Germans had their heads shaved, then they were tarred and feathered.

    Posted by dataguy

    Josh marsahll, and specifically greg sargent who wrote the post must be SOOO proud. I really despise these assholes.

  17. brit, guess we were just reading the same thing….disgusting

  18. RD, what a GREAT letter!!!! How many copies do you think it will take for them to comprehend your well stated points?

    As the mother of two GT who are grown now–one who had the teachers and opportunities to meet his needs, the other not so much because of relocations and different schools, my heart goes out to you. Your daughter is lucky to have you as her advocate. One of the points that always touched my heart the deepest was hearing Hillary talk about addressing each student as an individual.

    I keep wondering who these people know in their own lives that they think these tactics work.

  19. I still think this is just an effort to rile up the Obots and give them an opportunity to spin in the media.

    BO’s campaign has totally lost its momentum (well, that happened in March but all the hoopla of the primaries masked it to many people). This piece of crap email allows the MSM to make a big fuss and get the orcs and trolls out on the warpath again. Barky’s polling is anemic. They are wheeling it into the ICU as we type. If they can recreate the competition with Clinton via her supporters, they think they can reinject some excitement into the race.

    More fools they.

    Now that all the bells and whistles and streamers and weeping, fainting maidens are gone, the US is seeing BO for what he is — just the last in a long, long series of Democratic loser candidates who is as exciting as paint drying.

    Sorry to repost the same idea, but with a whole thread for this idiotic letter I couldn’t resist.

  20. And I was all ready to settle down for the night and try and get some shut eye … now I’m absolutely f’kin raging and will be up late writing a long rant to Don & Alice.

  21. Thanks for responding to that crude, patronizing lecture of Germund and Fowler, although how much do you want to bet that Donna Brazile wrote it? I’ve been researching her and this is just the kind of tone she’s been using throughout the election. Check my website in a few days and you’ll find another article about her along the lines of your Rove piece. This is a connection that needs a lot more exploration since it exposes the criminal conspiracy that threw the primaries to Obama. The website is thecityedition.com. In the meantime, if readers are interested, there’s an ongoing campaign to pressure the Senate Commerce Committee to investigate the media bias of the major broadcast networks. For info, a sample letter to Sen. Boxer and contacts to all the members, please follow this link:


  22. How can anyone “fall in line ” when there is a new insult everyday? And I wish Democrats big wigs spoke to Bush the way they speak to their base. It would be nice if Nancy barked at Bush, 1 /10th as much as she and her quislings yell at us. They do nothing for the base , why should the Dem base leap though hoops for them? Did they see how Hillary Clinton went out and ASKED for our vote? Yes, I’m very “fatigued ” myself…..with their stupidity .

  23. Fowler’s (and other obots) sports analogies are grinding on my last nerve. I’ve work in a women’s shelter with victims of domestic violence and it’s well known that crisis calls increase after big sports events regardless of whether the abusers “team” won or lost. I makes me sick they think this is a game.

    Further, his “act in a mature and responsible fashion” crap is so insulting to myself at 47 and my parents in their mid 70’s who are life long Democrats – there are no words…

    And to support BO without conditions or demands? Keep talking, stupid… It won’t be long til these idiots push me to GOTV for McCain. Unreal. Enough.

  24. Thank you, RD, for the link to the letter.

    Wow. It’s really quite stunning. So tone-deaf. So visibly counter-productive. So perfectly crafted to elicit only one possible response:


    So unbeseechingly inept. Perhaps the authors, despite their backgrounds are unfamiliar with politics? Which is, above all, about “I give you this, and you give me that.” So stirringly, rousingly a call to action–although, perhaps, not in the way they intended?


    So forcefully condescending. So genuinely insulting.

    And finally, so palpably, delightfully panicked.

    Carping? My dears, I am too busy smiling and waving:

    SEE YA.

  25. “And I wish Democratic big wigs spoke to Bush the way they speak to their base.”

    Right on, Annetoo.

  26. <<>>

    I think they JUST ran outta rocks to look under for clueless new voters to register!

  27. Not only is this bad politics but even a basic business english course teaches one to write a better letter. It does make one wonder if this outrage is the response they want.

    Valhalla, you make a very interesting point that makes a lot of sense to me.

  28. Well said… Fowler and Germond follow on the heels of that nauseating fundraising letter from Edwards which uses the “fear card” while trying to tell me that Democrats will protect us from the GOP, even as they cave to the GOP on every important issue.

    I’m putting my money in the local animal shelter that is trying to move to no-kill. At least I know I’m actually doing something for innocents instead of giving it to condescending, patronizing, and clueless creeps when it comes to the vote and democracy like Fowler, Germond, and the insufferable Obama.

    John Edwards is Back…With, Of All Things, the “Fear Card”

    These people make me BOILING MAD!

  29. I agree that Valhalla is probably right that this is more about energizing (and squeezing more money) out of nervous Obamabots than anything else, but at a risky price (“More fools they”). I have never even considered voting for McCain, but that kind of language pushes me dangerously close to the edge; and since I never consider myself in any way unique, I conclude that many others like me will respond in the same way, or even more viscerally.

  30. One of the lobbying clients for Fowler Communication is the Coalition for Auto Repair Equality. Given Don’s e-mail, the tag line for the Coalition would most likely go something like this:

    We want all auto repairs to suck, that way no one feels overly bitter. When you ask for a change at our garages, you’ll not only get change, but hope too.

  31. The DNC should refund N.J. and all the states for what they spent on the Primary.

    The WA state democrat party should refund the tax payers of Washington for the Primary — the Dems just discarded our votes in the primary. We had BOTH a Primary and a caucus and the result are proof of how the Obama gang of thugs gamed the system.

    Texas was the other state that had both a Primary and a caucus — Clinton won the primary but the Obamabutts gamed the caucus in Texas.

    I agree this letter from the DNC idiots sure reads like one of Donna is a racist Brazile’s messages.

    Howie Dean and the rest of the “leadership” have to go — and that means that unless Clinton can find a way to bring home the nomination — looks like to send a message and get the DNC bums fired — I’ll be voting McCain.

    What would happen if the taxpayers of the states where Hillary won sued the DNC for a refund on what they paid for their primary????

  32. what is this with “comment awaits moderation” garbage.

    Did I stumble on HuffPuff?


  33. This is f**king ridiculous! Riverdaughter and fellow Conflucians, I feel your anger! I read this piece of garbage letter from No Quarter several hours ago. Larry Johnson has already posted a response expressing his outrage as well.

    These dumb asses just don’t get it. You’d think that if they wanted us to vote for their candidate they would be kissing our asses rather than screwing us over with FISA and telling us to get over it after stealing our votes and tax dollars and handing over the nomination to the most unqualified, ruthless, and arrogant candidate I have ever seen on the Democratic side in my lifetime.

    I am from one of the two states that were screwed over and disenfranchised. If the DNC was going to choose the nominee without our votes, why the hell did they waste millions of dollars even holding these sham elections? You’re absolutely correct Riverdaughter. Those million of dollars could have been spent on many programs for the public good: education, health care, rehabilitation programs, child care, housing for the poor, job training, fixing our roads, DAMN I could go on for the next month listing all the things my state needs during these tough times.

    Really, it’s worth repeating since all of us are thinking it: WHO THE F*CK DO THESE PEOPLE THINK THEY ARE?

    I have already decided that I will not vote for Obama but if the Democratic Party keeps this up, I might not vote for downticket Dems either.

  34. Darn rich. These two bozo’s using strong arm techniques to tell departing democrats they can’t use strong arm techniques.

    I have never cast a vote that didn’t carry “conditions or demands” in payment for my support.

    What school have our politicians been attending lately that give them this arrogant attitude that we are at their feet rather than the other way around? They serve at OUR pleasure, and I delight in saying I will be voting against every SD on my ballot who supported the incompetent, unqualified, untrustworthy choice.

    I do, however, believe that Don and Alice were speaking only to Democrats, and I’m Independent, so to those who are in protest against the DNC, not to worry, they weren’t talking to us.

  35. Nice way to beg for my $$$s. And so because of that piss-poor attitude, here’s another $20.00 donation to retire Hillary’s debt even though it’s (now at this point) hurting.

    Folks all I can say is that they must be getting scared.

    For Mr. Fowler and Ms. Germond:
    If you thought you were somehow going to get my support by this tirade you are sadly mistaken. For you to be so pissed off we PUMAs must be doing something right.

    Be right back after the donation with the particulars.

  36. How dumb do they think we is? He’s email address was at the bottom of the letter so I sent him know what I thought of his letter.

    Good job, RD.

  37. There is NOTHING like a Riverdaughter tell-off to get me energized!

    THAT’S RIGHT, ALICE AND DONNY BOY!! Gimme back my FL primary taxes, and no, I don’t want 1/2!

    The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree, Brook is blessed to have an Amazon warrior for a mom.

    Riverdaughter, PLEASE write a daiily/every other day tell-off, PLEASE??? It does my heart right.

  38. Okay I clicked on the “brown-bag” icon and did a donation. Here are the particulars:

    Contribution Details
    Date: July 20, 2008 12:23 AM CDT
    Contact: James x xxxx xx


    Amount: $20.00

    The brown bag link does go to retiring the debt, doesn’t it?

  39. (nodding emphatically) I’m with SM!

  40. All I can say is Orwell would feel righteously justified and I would agree with him ….

  41. Yay Katiebird’s here!!! see Riverdaughter? WE NEED A DAILY RIVERDAUGHTER TELL OFF!!

    And Fredster donated!!! THANK YOU! Yes, I made that link myself, it goes straight into Hillary’s main contribute page.

    If you get an emaiol ack from HillPAC, it’s the right place since she can’t offically received it from the campaign since it’s suspended.

  42. ugh, that was EMAIL BACK FROM HILLPAC

  43. (waving) Hi SM! I’m frantically trying to catch up on stuff from when I was in my deep-sleep. But, I lurk….

    This post has me pretty inspired though. I think Sibelius (my Governor) deserves a similar letter (thinking)

  44. FUCK THEM AND FUCK THE DNC! Yes i said it!

    How can these people sleep at night knowing they acted AGAINST every Democratic principle?

    I can’t believe they’d send a letter THAT pathetic – as if we are children that need scolding. HOW DARE THEY?

  45. I LOVE it. Both the letter, and all the hate-filled garbage from the commenters at TPM.

    We’ve got ’em on the run now, folks. I think they’ve gone from not taking us seriously to realizing we are not only deadly serious, but that we have every intention of torpedoing the election for Obama.

    It’s his own fault. Well, and theirs. And I for one won’t be one bit sorry when he loses and we’re finally rid of him.

    He should never have run this year in the first place. He’s not only going to lose, he’s set race relations back 20 years. Great job.

  46. Hi Katiebird! I’m normally up late – tomorrow I have to take my PUMA cub early to meet up with her dad’s family who are visiting in FL and then she goes away with him & them for 2 weeks. Not looking forward to it, but she’s excited about it. Whatever.

  47. Eleanor A – abso-FRIGGIN-lutely we have them on the run. PUMA is gaining momentum.

    Look at this: “I must confess a bit of fatigue and irritation with people who continue to carp, complain, and criticize the results of the primary and lay down conditions for their support.”

    It’s that why you are an elected official – to serve the will of the people? WTF???? Is the entire DNC on crack or something?

  48. I don’t blame you for not looking forward to it.

    But I’ve been on the other side… My step kids have never spent a holiday or birthday with us in 20+ years. Even as adults their mother gets the holidays.

  49. “to serve the will of the people?”

    I think the whole, “Impeachment is off the table” thing cleared THAT up for all of us a couple of years ago. Didn’t it?

  50. The reason why I don’t look forward to it is because my house becomes too quiet and too stil. I know she’s going to have a great time, and we do trade off on holidays, but you’d think that I’ll be partying up a storm without the PUMA cub, but I just sulk and have nothing to do. I’m just passive-aggressively staying up late because I don’t want her to go.

  51. katiebird, on July 20th, 2008 at 1:46 am Said:
    “to serve the will of the people?”

    I think the whole, “Impeachment is off the table” thing cleared THAT up for all of us a couple of years ago. Didn’t it?


  52. {{SM}} I usually collect books for times like that. Do you have any emergency reading material?

    I don’t happen to have any excuse for being up — I just realized I was supposed to be in bed an hour ago!!

  53. I guess I should give in and go to bed…

  54. yeah, me too, I’m going to read the posts I missed this evening & go to bed. Good night & thanks for the chat!

  55. sweet dreams

  56. Northwest rain — don’t go!

    Sometimes comments get caught in moderation by the site, it’s not any of the folks here that hold them. (at least, this is what I understand from reading comments here).

    Someone will come along and release you.

  57. My Letter to Alice:


    I read your letter today that we Democrats who are not getting behind Obama are poor losers, and we just need to stop being immature and get on board the corrupt party bus and vote for the messiah.

    Well let me tell you Alice, I was one of the fortunate 100 Clinton supporters who got a ticket to the RBC meeting. Yeah that is right, there were only 100 of us, because the corrupt DNC gave the other 400 tickets to Obama people. Yes Alice I witnessed you first hand speak, and plea for the disenfranchisement of voters. I saw you argue to have 4 delegates stolen from my candidate, and awarded to the chosen one. I saw you vote that all the uncommitted votes be awarded to a candidate who by his own choosing removed his name from the ballot. I saw how back room deals were made at a lunch that lasted almost four hours when the debate was supposed to be in public. What you don’t realize Alice, is this election is the first time I’ve become an activist, because I could not believe what was happening to my country and my beloved Democracy. My own party allowed voter fraud to take place in the caucuses. My own party allowed a respected U.S. Senator to be destroyed by relentless sexist remarks by the media and fellow Democrats with out saying a word. My own party disenfranchised millions of Americans from having their voices heard. And then I fly out to D.C. on my own dime with the hopes that these unjust and undemocratic acts will be remedied by The Rules and Bylaws Committee meeting. Even after all the horror I witnessed in the election, I still believed that you on the RBC panel would do right by its voters and our constitution. I believed you would never deny the will of the people. Instead, I walked out of that meeting shaking from the atrocity. I never witnessed anything so unjust in my whole life. You rationalized away one of our most fundamental rights as Americans, the right to vote. Why would I ever vote again, if I believed that my vote can be reassigned to a candidate of the parties choosing? Why would I ever vote again if my vote could be stolen away? The people did not choose Obama, The Party did. The Party used everything in it’s power to award Obama the nomination even if that meant lowering the bar for him, and stealing votes.

    Well Alice I don’t want to come over to your side. Because your side represents everything I would never want to be. I’m on the side of George Washington and Thomas Jefferson, and our founding fathers. They warned us about The Parties using their power only to serve it’s own interest, and not it’s people. Many Americans fought and died for our Constitution, and I will fight and die to preserve it. Voting for Obama means condoning un-democratic behavior. I would die before I would do that.

    Los Angeles, California

  58. sm77: What I copied and pasted was the “thank you page after the contribution.

    I got the email and the addy is: contributions@hillarycampaign2008.com. At the bottom is the Paid for by Hillary Clinton for Prez . So guess it got to the right place.

    Gawd that pissed me off so bad. How dare they lecture…lecture! about what is my guaranteed right to support who I choose to support. They can both just bite the big one. Hope they realize this is going to backfire bigger than shit.

  59. Dear Alice and Don,

    Quite frankly, what I’m sick to death of is watching your presumptous candidate prance around the world making the most bone-headed gaffes imaginable to our allies so he can look like the preznit!

    I’m sick to death of watching the race card being played everytime someone sneezes the wrong way. It is sickening beyond belief to realize that your presumptuous candidate has set race relations back 50 years just because he wants to win. Perhaps you should be thinking about what kind of man would do something so despicable, and if you really want someone like that leading this country?

    I’m sick to death of being told I have to vote for someone who displays such shocking and obvious ignorance of our government and the world around him, who changes his positions as often as most people change their underwear, who has the least experience of anyone who has ever run for the office, who has friends that wouldn’t allow the rest of us to even qualify for a government security clearance, and who does not have the personal qualities demanded of an effective leader.

    I’m sick to death of being told that Hillary lost when we all saw the backroom deal you concocted on May 31st. We all saw the gaming of the caucuses. We’ve all heard about the threats to Super Delegates who didn’t get onboard the Obama lemming rush. We all saw the Democratic leadership manipulating the Super Delegates and the media perception. I’ve been sick to death all year watching my party become as thuggish and undemocratic as the other party.

    Who the hell are you to tell us who we must vote for? The last I checked, this was the United States, not the Soviet Union. This isn’t a game. This is the most serious election of my lifetime (I’m 55), and you people have thrown it away by trying to shove another unelectable, out-of-touch loser down our throats. There is just one problem: this time you’ve chosen someone so repugnant in his actions that I will hold my nose and vote for McCain to defeat him.

    Quite frankly, Alice and Don, I don’t give a damn what you think! Because I’m sick to death of people like you in positions of power that you abuse.

  60. hey guys dont know if youve heard but two of our lovely congressmen want to raise the gas tax another 10 cents,dont want us to drill but the shure want to tax us some more.im thinking that a horse and wagon is what they want us to use as transportation.

  61. Sigh…

    I know everyone else is in bed already, but I had to show you a copy of the letter I sent after reading Riverdaughters rage, and having read about the comments at TPMCafe. I wonder if these guys even bother to read their mail. If they are smart, they will be reading everyone of them…I am simply and quietly enraged.

    Good night all, and thank you all for being here, as I would certainly suffer if I had to endure this alone.


    “Dear Don,

    The lovely email you sent out demanding that Hillary supporters get over it and get behind the Presumptuous Nominee, was posted at TPM Cafe. I thought you might be interested in some of the comments that were posted by those who HAVE been behind your candidate from the start:

    > There are NO HILLARY DEMOCRATS anymore. Just Democrats.
    > Remember the French Whores, buddy. After WWII, all the whores who fucked the Germans had their heads shaved, then they were tarred and feathered.
    > Posted by dataguy

    Now Don, this may come as a shock to you, but this is the tripe that Hillary supporters have been subjected to throughout the entire campaign…and it has not let up one bit now that you seem to think you can commandeer our votes. What planet do you folks live on? And what on earth would make you think that I or any other sane person would even CONSIDER rewarding this kind of behavior?

    The party has lost thousands of us who will never vote for Obama, and if this abusive behavior continues, may never even vote for downticket dems again…I would respectfully suggest that all of you back the f__k off, and make sure Hillary Clinton’s name is placed in nomination at the convention and that her delegates are allowed to vote for her on the first ballot just like every other primary contender, in each of the last many conventions. Or is there some reason that the usual courtesies don’t apply if the candidate is a woman?

    And don’t even think that you can threaten us with Roe. There are enough votes on the SC to overturn it anytime they wanted to IF they really wanted to, but both parties are so dependent on using it as a fly trap for voters that neither of them wants it to go away…who do you think you are kidding.

    You should feel proud of your participation in a process that will destroy the party, and if this poorly equipped man should win, destroy the country as well. How does that blood on your hands feel?

    How dare you condescend to over half the voters that turned out for this primary season. How dare you destroy our democracy.”.

  62. Buesky that was so awesome. Puma Power

  63. Late night analogy popping into my little brain (oops, I mean my giant PUMA brain!):

    The DNC counted their chickens before they were hatched and are now blaming the eggs.

  64. CognitiveDissonance:


  65. Carolin in PA: I’m still here give me a second to read your post.

  66. I think it’s more like millions the thousands.

  67. damn it: then thousands

  68. Dear Mr. Fowler:

    Could you please provide a list of the companies you lobby for or represent? I would like to boycott them.


    PUMA member

  69. I am so impressed that you all can put together such well written letters at this time of the evening. Thank you for your inspiration.

    Don who are the congresspersons wanting to raise the gas tax? Gas prices are hurting everyone but those of us in rural America can only conserve to a point. I consolidate my errands and have practically parked my car but it is 10 miles to the closest grocery!!!????

  70. Oh Riverdaughter!
    Thank You!
    Mil Noches de mil gracias!..you are a safe harbor for many–a pace to find sanity amid the insanity …a thousand thank yous…

  71. Dear Mr Fowler:

    I was so discusted by your e-mail today that I had to respond. I will not and never JUST GET OVER IT. So you just get over that I will be voting for McCain in the fall. Let me tell you why. Ok I am one of those wonderful Hillary supporters that have been disenfranchised by the Democratic Party. Now that is out of the way. I am also one of those weird so-called Reagan Democrats/ Blue Dog Democrats. I have different feelings on different issues. I have always been socially liberal and fiscally conservative. I even disagree with McCain on a few issues that are not Democratic. I believe we should drill anywhere we can; I am part of the Drill here, Drill now, Pay less group. I believe in free markets. I want to drill in Anwar. I do not believe in Global warming at all. Ok so now for the things I do believe in. I loved Bill Clinton’s welfare to work program it has not been enforced. I believe in helping out the (MIDDLE CLASS, not the lower class), the lower class gets all of the benefits and does not accept any responsibility for their actions but the true middle class works 2 jobs and barely gets by with out any of the benefits. They have no retirement; no health insurance and they cannot send their children to college. I do not believe in affirmative action by race, I believe social economic class should determine it. I do not mind paying higher taxes or helping out others that are really trying to better themselves but I have a hard time helping out those who do not want to better themselves. I am pro choice, I do strongly believe that it is a woman’s right to choose what happens to her but I also believe that we can help women make the right decisions. I believe in the 2nd amendment and I have 4 guns myself and do not want anyone telling me I can not protect me or my home. I believe in god, but I also believe that people have the right to choose what they want to believe in. I do not believe that religion and politics mix. I know I am so divided but that is what makes America great. I can believe and care for that I believe in and it cannot be stopped. All of the reasons and so many more are the reason that I will be supporting McCain this fall. We do not have a perfect Country but we have a fierce patriotic one and I love my country with all of my heart and I will vote with great honor for McCain to prove that. I just wanted to let McCain know that I am not just voting for Him as a protest vote. I actually agree with him on some things, actually more things than I agree with Obama. I do not trust Obama, he changes with the wind. He has no respect for the Democratic Party just getting himself elected. I just don’ like the man. He is sleazy and slimy and eerie. If I was not a Reagan Democrat then I would just sit home this election but I believe in my heart that he would DESTROY this county that I love and I always put my County before my party, so this year and maybe for many more I will be voting Republican and darn proud of it. Please all of you leftist out there do not try the guilt thing because it will not work. I am strong and proud and free of guilt. I always do what is right for my Country and my beliefs, so do not try and change them, it won’t work this year. Obama is a radical, he is a leftist, he is a socialist, he will and wants to destroy the Country that I love so much and I will not let that happen.

    So Mr. Fowler please just get over it and leave us alone to vore for the person that will not destroy this wonderful country.

    Kim M. Rosriguez

    Please do not respond to me because I have no use for you or your kind.

  72. they are rep james oberstar and pete defazio of or. a couple of real winners.also what i find hillarious is as soon as the fall hits and people in the northeast start buying their fuel oil for the winter i expect traditionally blue states to revolt especially when pelosi and friends keep blocking the offshore drilling bill from getting a vote.btw to anyone here that lives in the northeast my apoligies and i feel for you i run a small contracting business in az and im spending 40 to 60 dollars a day 6 days a week and its killing me.

  73. Don, my brother owns a road construction business and he is being pinched both ways–cost and cuts in needed construction decreasing contracts. Thanks for the heads up. Will keep an eye on this. Talk about out of touch. Our representative government is far beyond out of touch–they are in a whole other world.

    I googled the topic and found an article from 2hrs ago with discussions of even higher increases. Current law expires in Sept?? Suspect new law won’t go through until AFTER election.

  74. Don, good luck. Good night all. Can’t keep my eyes open any longer.

  75. Don, it’s just as bad in parts of the South now with cooling costs. In Louisiana, Entergy generates most of its power with natural gas! People get their electric bill and the fuel adjustment charge is usually higher than the amount of electricity used!! :-0

    In Alabama, AL power generates with either coal or hydro and hence no fuel adjustment charges. Entergy is trying to get away from gas turbines but it will be a long time before they can get anything else going.

  76. Thanks for a place to aim our outrage RD. Here’s a copy of the letter I sent to both these nitwits.

    Dear Ms. Germond/Mr. Fowler:

    After reading your letter scolding Clinton Democrats and supporters I now realize why we have had so little success at getting Democrats into the White House. Leadership as inept, arrogant and condescending is obviously the problem.

    We voters are weary of attitudes such as yours. Who by the way do you think you are talking to? Children? Servants? Lesser Beings?

    I for one, as a lifelong Democrat will never support or vote for the PRESUMPTIVE nominee your corrupt committee selected. Keep angering me and us, and we won’t show up to vote for down ticket Democrats either. Not that if makes much difference since once they get to Washington and become members of the elite government they don’t bother to represent the people anymore anyway.

    With Little Respect,

    Kenosha, WI

  77. Hey, don’t knock it! He called us “immature” – that’s gotta be worth something! And he gave us sports metaphors – talked to us like we were “one of the guys”. This is BTW, the guy arguing Florida’s case at the RBC…..
    But to me – the ray of sunshine was that introduction to the “fowl” letter”

    In a sign that senior Democratic officials remain deeply concerned that post-primary bitterness could imperil Barack Obama’s chances….

    We just saw them sweat! keep it up!

  78. PUMA is obviously doing something right. These folks who went along with ignoring my Florida vote because I didn’t want to see another stolen election (by passing the paper trail bill in Florida) can kiss my ass. When will Donna Brazille resign from the party since Superdelegates will be deciding the nomination? How’s that NEW and IMPROVED coalition working for you Donna? They sure are nice people.

  79. Oh yeah, edgeofforever, they’re sweating. They are so f*****d.

    Riverdaughter: You make a great point about the fraudulent nature of this whole primary.

    Re: “This year was different because more weight was given to states for which we haven’t a prayer of winning in November[….]” I have to admit my ignorance here — did the amount of delegates from the caucus states in question increase this year? If so, then that is just more evidence of their manipulation of this process.

    Also, it is a very dangerous proposition to suggest that people vote for any politician without conditions or demands.

  80. http://www.iownmyvote.com/

    Apparently, Taylor Marsh has shut down her comments section, so she can continue to try to intimidate Democrats into accepting the illigitimate ‘presumptive’ nominee, the Dauphine Barack. By shutting out commenters who continue to make well-reasoned arguments against accepting the DNC fix, Marsh has instead implicitly admitted that her current bullying campaign can only work if she shuts out any dissent at her site. How sad for Taylor Marsh. But, she’s chosen to take the path of WKJM, and compete for the corporate dollars instead of pursuing her previous “independent journalism.”

    Taylor has every right to make her own choice; but I own my vote. I won’t be bullied into supporting an illigitimate, fraudulent, narcissistic adolescent as president. This country is on the brink of economic disaster, and if news reports are to be believed, may also be on the brink of Middle East regional disaster via an attack on Iran. Yet we have a Democratic ‘presumptive’ nominee who invokes gangsta rap in his speeches, plays basketball for photo ops during foreign policy trips, and seeks to rally the masses at the Brandenburg Gate, as opposed to meeting with American military families at Fort Hood.

    I own my vote. It doesn’t belong to any party. I am accountable only to myself for my voting choices. If the Democratic Party chooses not to earn the votes of Democratic Voters, but seeks to bully them with fear-mongering, they will not have my vote in November.

  81. I have to write a long letter to Don later today. Am off to drive the little one to sleep away camp so can’t do it justice now. Just wanted to ask all of you if you think the tone of the letter would have been different if Fowler were writing to AA’s about the loss of Obama and their need to support Hillary?? One more point, RD– the primaries are not winner take all, so the DNC has stolen the votes of all Clinton voters, even if the state ‘went’ for o. We all want our money back.

  82. Fowler hit a foul ball with this one. They are stamping their feet saying it was fair ball and for us to allow them the scoring run.

  83. Great post to wake up to. I am amazed at the great responses that have been posted here.

    This is not the Democratic party anymore. It has morphed into something else. They have allowed themselves to be corrupted by the Bush republican party and its tactics.

  84. GREAT letter Riverdaughter !! I am astounded beyond beleif at the audacity of that letter….
    especially these parts
    “I must confess a bit of fatigue and irritation with people who continue to carp, complain, and criticize the results of the primary and lay down conditions for their support. The Los Angeles Lakers didn’t establish conditions to recognize the Boston Celtics as NBA Champions; Roger Federer did not demand concessions before recognizing that Rafael Nadal defeated him at Wimbledon.

    It is time to act in a mature and resourceful fashion. It’s time to put the primaries behind us. It’s time to support Barack Obama without conditions or demands.

    According to these people we are just immature carping complaining critics who are not very resourceful losers at the SPORT of politics .
    I am so sorry they are ” annoyed and irritated .” however as a responsible american citizen whose tax dollars are being spent, i have to say that simply by virtue of revealing how they think, these people have shown very clearly they are not reponsible to be in their current positions and need to be replaced .
    I guess this election is just a big football game and we should just attend the stadium and cheer for the” winner “, even tho he cheated to win .
    Not only will I not be bullied, I will make certain that people like this are replaced with responsible qualified people . So they can stay annoyed and irritated, al the way up to the time when they lose their jobs.

  85. The Obamadroid can see one thing at a time, to the exclusion of everything else. The entire focus in on the coronation in Mile High City. Come on, people. Get with the program. Clap. Clap harder.


  86. These are the best arguments that I have read, heard, or written in many years. We are seeing the new revolution take place after the abuses of our own political systems. To realize that our own party’s leadership is as corrupt and broken as the party of George Bush is infuriating and terrifying. To be a rebel is a daunting undertaking and I am seeing that evolution everyday. RD and the other commenter are the new founding sisters and she is our Adams.

  87. “I must confess a bit of fatigue and irritation with people who continue to carp, complain, and criticize the results of the primary and lay down conditions for their support. The Los Angeles Lakers didn’t establish conditions to recognize the Boston Celtics as NBA Champions; Roger Federer did not demand concessions before recognizing that Rafael Nadal defeated him at Wimbledon.”

    Then I wonder why they demanded and laid down conditions that Hillary recognize barack as the winner, when she won the popular, all large states etc. Mr. Fowler and Ms. Germond will rue the day they typed these words.

  88. Beautifully said RD!!!!!!
    good morning PUMA’S hey if you haven’t listen to this please do, my gawd I couldn’t stop laughing hahahaha

  89. Yes, the fix was in early. The DNC systematically undermined the Clinton campaign from day one, overtly and covertly, and then destroyed her candidacy stupidly on May 31, 2008 for the whole freaking world to see, live. The Clinton campaign fought through it and still bested an inferior candidate and his rabid little caucus machine with the DNC fake rules (rulz) and MSM propaganda directed against it. Yes Riverdaughter, this would pretty much constitute a “sham” Primary season on a state level as well as nationwide. The negative consequences of the obscene money spent to perpetrate this horrific fraud will be felt by millions for years to come. I am a middle income engineer in his fifties with a mortgage. My job is secure for the moment and my health is OK with the normal aches and pains. But I am not looking forward to growing old in America when our leadership keeps making these deadly choices. To the fortunes of the middle class so goes America.

  90. taggles, I’m glad you reposted that paragraph. It is the epitome of Obamanaut whining. “I must confess a bit of fatigue and irritation…” Yeah, me too.

    I agree with the person who said that Donna Brazile must have written this letter. “Carp” is such a Brailiode word.


  91. I wrote–I only wish I hadn’t quit the Dem party so long ago(after Carter!) I can’t demand my money back. But at least I can say I’m a former Democrat. 🙂 If it is true that one could get contributions back–and the former OZombies would help–that would really frost this dud duo.

  92. Great letter riverdaughter.

    please everyone also sign this, from the Denver Group. Pass it on too.


  93. Joan Venochhi at the Boston Globe hits on a growing awareness of Obama’s NARCISSISM.

    I think she’s onto something here. A little late maybe, and a little tepidly in my opinion, because she says he’s always had a “healthy” ego–in truth, his ego is decidedly unhealthy; but I won’t quibble more–but his NARCISSISM is becoming apparent to the MSM.


  94. SO SAY WE ALL!

    I copied your entire post and emailed it to my MN super delegates.

  95. Why do people spend money for colored sugar water in bottles and cans? They are targets of successful marketing campaigns. Obama-in-a-can is a sucessful product. It’s only now that people are looking at the contents.


  96. I would just like to point out that politics, as a “sport” is nothing like tennis or basketball. If anything, it’s like a more subjective sport like gymnastics. And, if anyone remembers the Athens’ games, who wins is sometimes up for dispute.

  97. I also joined with some other PUMAs to send my regards to Don Fowler with a copy to Alice G. that included a suggestion that they read Riverdaughter’s post addressed to them.

    Also notified them that I will not be voting for the Democratic nominee for president – a once-in-a-lifetime event for this lifelong Democrat – if it’s BO for two broad reasons: the fraudulent, undemocratic way in which he was chosen; and the ineptness, corruptness, arrogance, sexism, and inexperience of their chosen one.

    I was puzzled by their concern, however. Donna Brazile and their candidate threw Democrats like me under the bus. They are working with a new coalition evidently and don’t need me. So why should they be bothered by us PUMAs?

  98. woops…..


    I know it’s off topic specifically, but generally, no

  99. A couple of points —
    first off, Germond is lying when she says she supported Clinton. The ONLY candidate she has publicly supported this election cycle is Barack Obama

    and while Fowler publicly endorsed Clinton early on, he supported the theft of Clinton’s Michigan delegates — he’s pure party corruption. And if you want to know why a consistently GOP state like South Carolina was allowed to go “early” (while other states that are far more Democratic were denied) — its because Fowler is from SC, is on the RBC, and set it up that way.

    like a number of others, this kind of crap from DNC leadership is pushing me from the “just not vote”, or “write in Hillary”, or “vote for McKinney” column into thinking seriously about voting for McCain.

  100. I’m with you Paul. I don’t quite understand the drama that went on yesterday about Greens trying to recruit people on this site. I am a Democrat who has voted for Greens in local elections. Even though The Confluence is not the place to endorse Green platforms, I welcome any progressive, liberal, former Democrat, or moderate who is against Barack Obama and the current DNC leadership on this site.

    I will not under any circumstances ever vote for Obama. I’d rather vote for McCain, McKinney, Nader, or anyone else running in this election before voting for Obama. Anyone else who is with me, I welcome you and hope we can start discussing how we can fix the Democratic party so that one day all of us on the Left can vote for a Democrat without compromising our beliefs and principles.

  101. How many times, in how many different ways does the DNC and Party leadership need to crap on voters before they have enough?

    The arrogance and condescend ion expressed by these two pinheads in this letter is amazing. As I asked in my letter to them; who do they think they’re talking to? We are not their children, their servants or lesser beings. We are, in effect, their employers.

    It is time, and long past it IMO to send most of the corrupted politicians, from both parties, in Washington back into the obscurity they so deserve. In my eyes a corrupt Democrat is not better than a corrupt Republican.

    If the DNC and the Democratic Party is allowed to triumph with their shenanigans, then they have no reason to change their ways.

    I live in Wisconsin, where I believe the vote will be very close. And I, a lifelong Democrat will vote for a Republican for the first time in my life.

    Not an anti-Obama vote. Not a pro-Clinton Democrat vote, an anti-Democratic Party Bad Behavior vote.

  102. sm77
    Hi, read your comment and I have another suggestion. There is a great site called “LibriVox “.

    Volunteers read and record great books and papers from the public domain. When I am upset and can’t sleep, but must, I go to that site find a book and my ear phones and let it put me to sleep.

  103. Yeah, why is Alice and Don worried about us? Aren’t we just a few deadenders who cling to our guns as we pray that Hillary will be nominee? I mean really why bother, alice and don aren’t you just a tad business being at Obama’s peck in call?

    Let us relieve you of any future invention on your part.. WE OWN OR VOTES AND WE ARE ACTING LIKE IT.


  104. After all this time they still don’t get it. Hopefully one day they will. PUMA!

  105. […] Dear Alice and Don, Please refund my tax dollars Dear Mr. Fowler and Ms Germond, I was disappointed to see that two months of our steady demands for recognition have […] […]

  106. Arabella Trefoil, on July 20th, 2008 at 10:17 am Said:

    I agree. I don’t think O. needs to worry about his birth certificate. He can make it through Customs with the UPC code imprinted on his forehead.

    I did write a response to Don and Alice. Sports analogies don’t work for me; I think that analogy trivializes the issue. I suggested this event is more analagous to the unfortunate history of the old South where the house Negroes (Clinton supporters) have to be whupped for not supporting massa. And they were supposed to be compliant! The DNC engaged in civil rights abuse which included the degradation of half its population (18 million Hillary voters, in this case).

    If DNC leaders are feeling irritated and fatigued, they should resign their positions immediately and make way for a less corrupted leadership…monitored by PUMA.

  107. So, not feeling particularly well today, a friend sent me the link to the TPM article outlining the laughable letter from the Dumb Nazi Creep’s. *DNC*. Of course, i reached for my blood pressure monitor.

    Let it be said, as all of us do repeatedly, we are NOT going to acquiesce, we are NOT going to vote for the unqualified, fraudulent, media creation known as O. We are NOT going to the polls like drones. We have alternatives, and NOTHING will change this. I do not need to outline the reasons why, as that has been done ad infinitum.
    What I DID find humorous was the sports analogy. As a lifelong Boston Celtic fan, I will address the stupidity of the reference. A. Politics and the Presidency is not a game. B. The reason the Celtics won is simple. THEY SCORED MORE POINTS.
    The reason that Hillary won the popular vote is simple. SHE HAD MORE VOTES.
    In 2000, the popular vote was an egregious matter, was it not? Now, the manchurian candidate has been selected by George Soros and the new world order. Screw all of you. Your appointee is going down.

    One more note: I am one of the few people that ACKNOWLEDGES AND GIVES CREDIT TO THE CONFLUENCE (RIVERDAUGHTER) FOR THE PUMA NAME. This is where it emanated from, and all of us who rallied around, whether early or late, owe a HUGE debt of thanks to Riverdaughter. I am the creator of the first facebook PUMA page, as well as two sites, and am a founding member of Just Say No Deal. Kudo’s to Diane M. of JSND for bringing cohesiveness and guidance to our cause. We will prevail, and take that to mean anything you’d like.

  108. I was at the convention that rammed through Howard Dean as DNC Chair. Don Fowler’s son Donnie ran against him, as did a number of experienced and qualified men. The only thing Dean had was his adoring followers from 2004, who jammed the room, threw blue tickets, and generally put on a tantrum to get their boy in, who, laughably, they expected to “reform” the DNC. He was SO not ready for this job.
    And we’ve all paid the price.

  109. “Irritated and fatigued”, indeed! Pretty much how all of us are feeling about Fowler and Germond right about now. “Carping” doesn’t do justice to the tidal wave of dissent heading over their way. I don’t even WANT the DNC to clean house anymore–it’s been condemned and rendered inhospitable by the infestation of corruption. Time for that mythical 3rd party to emerge. PUMAs–lead the way!

  110. “I’m putting my money in the local animal shelter that is trying to move to no-kill.”

    GRL, be very careful with this. No-kill sounds great in theory but when it comes up against hard (fiscal) reality, no-kill shelters can often be worse than those that euthanize. Don’t believe me, believe the large number of pro-animal organizations that have expressed serious reservations about them.

    The chief problem is that “no-kill” often leads to animals being kept in overcrowded cages for months at a time; cats have been adopted who literally–literally–could not walk because their leg muscles had atrophied after months of being locked in a small cage. Many are not able to learn socialization and remain fearful and near-wild even when adopted. Others contract serious illnesses from long exposure to other animals for long periods of time. The shelters don’t have enough staff people to exercise the animals or give them the attention they need.

    Listen, I’m a huge supporter of animal shelters, where I both volunteer and donate, and worked for years at a wildlife sanctuary. I had to do euthanasias, frequently, and no it is never easy but it is at least a peaceful end to suffering. No animal should live locked up in a cage for months or years at a time. Shelters don’t *want* to euthanize healthy animals, but they literally have no choice until people start neutering their pets, and stop abandoning them.

    Look into this very carefully before you give them your hard-earned dough. In the meantime, your local county animal shelter that isn’t going no-kill but provides free, compassionate care (not all do, of course, but many are excellent), may be in desperate need of money and supplies.

  111. Sorry to double-post. Some related reading:

    “According to the Humane Society’s Martha Armstrong, many no-kill shelters turn away more animals than they accept. The “rejects” often end up at publicly funded shelters — which must take every animal brought in. When cages fill up, those shelters euthanize animals to make room for others. Net result: A large number of unwanted animals still die. The only difference is who euthanizes them.

    And if there’s no organization to take the overflow, pet owners have few options. When the Ulster County SPCA went no-kill, it canceled its animal-control contracts with local towns, which had relied heavily on its services. “People who couldn’t afford to have their animals euthanized [at a veterinarian’s office] or couldn’t find a place to have them adopted gave them a new ‘home’ on the streets,” says Ulster County dog-control officer Jim Meyer. “There was definitely an increase in the number of strays. The situation totally deteriorated.”

    Another potential problem with no-kill shelters: Animals may languish in cages for months. While some no-kill shelters have spacious facilities or use foster families to care for animals awaiting adoption, many others don’t. ”



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