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Hillary for VP? Bwahahahahahhhh!

Here’s the story, PUMAs: Barack Obama doesn’t rule out Clinton for VP.

Like it’s up to him.

It looks like Obama just blinked.  Here’s my theory, FWIW.  The joint fundraising is revealing a rift that the idiots in charge did not anticipate.  It looks like the Clinton supporters are still a bit miffed about the whole primary season.  Oh, sure, the party has had surrogates on every other day saying that everybody kissed and made up and the sex was good and… hey, why is Debbie Wasserman-Schultz grinning madly like that?  OK< so it’s not going well.  The rift is fairly wide and looks like it’s getting wider.  There’s some insurgent group out there calling itself PUMAs or something and making mischief and getting on TV, ferchrisesakes.  Jeez!  Why can’t they just suck it up like they did for Kerry?  And now they’re calling the office at all hours of the day and night demanding that Clinton gets a nomination and a roll call vote.  The Republicans NEVER have to put up with this $#%@.

So, the money’s not coming in, the poll numbers are starting to look alarming, FISA didn’t go so well and there’s too much time left before the convention.  We can’t put Hillary on the ballot.  If we do that, she might just pull it out.  By late August, Obama could be in real trouble.  How do we get everyone on board and yet still keep firm control of the party and Obama?

By George!  Let’s float the idea that we’re considering making her VP!  It’s brilliant!  Some of the low info holdouts might go for that.  It just might be enough to swing the sucker for BO.  We don’t have to actually follow through.  We’ll just leave the possibility hanging out there.  Once it gains enough traction, people will say it’s the best consolation prize she’s likely to get and they’ll accept it.  It’s a good thing Axelrod read that section of the psych book on learned helplessness. As long as the voters think this is the best that she can do, they’ll stop pushing for anything more.  They’ll never know how close she is to getting the whole shebang if they just keep screaming for a fair convention.

Wow!  I never thought I’d say this but it’s a good thing that low info voters watch Fox.  Otherwise, they might not even know there was a PUMA movement.  Hey, if Clinton is getting under their skin enough to make them offer her VP, she might as well go for the whole thing.  Maybe some seniors my Mom’s age would settle for second place, but none of the PUMAs *I* know would.  When they start screaming “VP!”, then it’s working.  No backing off now, guys. Full speed ahead to Denver.

364 Responses

  1. Absolutely!

  2. He has to keep the possibility ‘alive’ for Hillary supporters. Another example of “hope and change” that isn’t really any change at all.

    As I tell my kids, “if you are just going to tell me something just because you think it will make me feel better—don’t.” I’m not an Olive branch kind of chick.


  3. Poor BO – he doesn’t realize that even if he offers HRC the VP slot, there are still tons and tons of us who WILL NEVER VOTE FOR BO.

    He could offer me $10,000,000 and I still would never vote for him.

  4. All or nothing at all, full speed ahead, and, uh, hang ten!

  5. PUMAs aren’t donkeys that follow the carrot, eh? Hey, Shaele–I’m not an “olive branch kind of chick”, either. I say BO can stick that olive branch where the sun doesn’t shine. At this point, I’m not willing to see Hillary debase herself as VP to that piece of garbage.

  6. Guess I’m just not getting over my “snit” just yet. I’ve given $200 just to Hillary to retire her debt, and another $100 to the Denver Group. Must be the DNC is finally wising up to the fact that “we’re not over it”.

  7. it is SUCH an F-ing lie….Obama is a bold face, straight up, liar on an epic scale . He lies to soften the opposition . They stop full press, thinking they have been heard and that no one would lie directly to their face . But by this time we know Barry would lie to one’s face and the Press will back him up.
    As my Irish grandma would have said :


  8. I’m so not over it. And believe me them putting the more qualified candidate second is not likely to make me get over it.

  9. Irlandese: I’ve had to come further through this primary cycle than most of you on this blog. I’m a Republican and have been all of my life. I am not a fan of Hillary Clinton and I sure as hell won’t vote for Obama.

    However, the classlessness for which Hillary was treated by MSNBC and other pundits really hit a nerve with me.

    As I’ve told Liberal friends who are voting for Obama, just because I’m a Republican does not mean I believe Hillary Clinton deserved to pay for male egos whose sexual frustration was evident through my TV screen. It became apparent they (Chris Matthews and Keith Olbermann) would rather Hillary stood there and smiled so it would allow for them to swallow easily.

    My Liberal friends believe America needs to be more like Europe and that Obama will bring about peace throughout the world as President. With that type of brain damage, I’ve decided to not hold back and watch the DNC and RNC screw over the American voters any longer.

    At this point, I believe Mickey Mouse would do a better job as our next President. He’s likeable, quiet, and doesn’t tend to put his foot in his mouth every other second.

  10. HMPH! My Mom will celebrate her 83rd birthday July 19th- frail but her mind is all in one piece. She will vote for Hillary in Nov or for the first time EVER vote Republican.
    I am sending her a copy of Annabelle’s Resolutions for her birthday. We have a family tradition of holiday birthday’s- Christmas, Fourth of July, Memorial Day- My mom always felt left out- This will brighten her day!

  11. absofrickinlutely that is why he said that ..he is so transparent ….clear cellophane
    What he faols to realise is that after all of his mountains of mistakes , his mawkish mediocrity; and his mega mysogyny… Hillary supporters consider him to be the poison , and dont want her to be his VP for any reason. He would use her as a scapegoat for anything that went wrong , his constant sniping sarcasm would be insifferable , and last but not least … after all to him she really is an “afterthought” Nice try slime ball obama…. dont think so ..

  12. Could we has Hillary/RFJ Jr.? That would make my day and my lifetime.

  13. We have to make it clear that we will not vote for him even if she is on the ticket. Plus if gawd forbid this doesn’t work out I believe she will have more power then he would as president if she keeps her senate seat. She’s got what he wants and that makes it really interesting.

  14. Hillary and Harold Ford Jr?? what a pretty picture that would be ………. sigh

  15. Shaele–you’re not the only Republican woman I’ve heard echo those same sentiments. Of course, as a life-long Democrat, it’s been quite easy for me to embrace my PUMA-ness; however, the utter misogyny in the press was more than may women could bear, no matter their party affiliation. Thanks for speaking up.

  16. Swan: OMG, Harold!!! Shirtless debates!

    They would be so pretty together. Ommm. And I predict so it will be.

  17. things are looking good! VP? NO WAY!
    Just read this in the nypost: “EGO-BAMA, swallow some of that pride”EGO-BAMA, SWALLOW SOME OF THAT PRIDE

    Enjoy the read, it’s worth your time, I promise

  18. I’m in Texas, and I promise Hell ain’t freezin’ over no time soon!

    No VP! Not even for BO!

    PUMA$ Who Donate Rock & Rule!

  19. Carol: Texan here too and it ain’t going that blue with this kid.

  20. ROFLMAO Shirtless Debates … how about hot tub town hall meetings?? ok that really is going too far …. bad bad Swannie…

    anyway … I understand that Obamas “objection “to Hillary VP is having the most successful Democratic President in the past 20 years… underfoot …..what an impediment !!! …. I guess the loser ambience in his camp is so strong that the scent of a winner could be a problem more no we cant from the hope killer guy backtrack obummer

  21. Obama, Pelosi, Reid, …
    are far more dangerous than
    McCain, Pelosi, Reid, ….

  22. Obama, Pelosi, Reid, …
    are far more dangerous than
    McCain, Pelosi, Reid, ….

    testing — testing

  23. I hardly think Hillary would even consider such a position, particularly since Obama appointed the VP Chief of Staff already – Patti Solis Doyle and that was a great big F&CK YOU to Hillary. No matter what Obama says, it’s a lie.

  24. Mirlo, thanks for that link – you’re right, it’s really worth the time to read! Never thought I’d say that about anything written by Jonah Goldberg, but there it is – up is down in this weird new world. He nailed it.

  25. I’m all for Hot Tub Town Halls as long as Bill can play Hillary’s chair. Or, you know, Harold can play it. He’s a team player and everything.

    Obama’s objection has more to do with the fact she makes him look like a failed boy scout than the fact that Bill makes him look like a kindegarten dropup.

  26. [apologies — reload and a couple pings had failed]

  27. I may be mistaken, but I really believe that the older a woman is the less likely she would be to want Hillary to accept the VP postition. My soon-to-be 75 year old Republican mom sure doesn’t. She wanted Hillary to win the nomination and the presidency and nothing less. There is a latent PUMA in every woman, and the elder sisters have longer lifetime memories of men being made to look good by more competent women.

  28. Asking Hillary to take the second spot is like asking Dr. DeBakkie to assist Doogie Houser in the OR.

  29. regencyq, you are a genius!

    Hillary Clinton and Bobby Kennedy Jr. is …. damn I don’t even have the words. The one thing that I miss since I quit listening to Air America is him. I believe he would make a fantastic VP and the most wonderful advocate for the environment she could find. Even better than Gore who is evidently still pouting about differences during the Clinton Administration. Talk about someone who needs to get over it!

    Oh goddess the talents that are being wasted with all the attention being paid to one second-rate Jr. Senator from Illinois.

    The idea of Hillary Clinton being in a subordinate position to this empty suit makes me actually nauseous.

    Don’t do it Senator Clinton. Being the first female VP is not worth accepting and having to be forever silent about what was done to you and to your supporters by Obamacrats.

    PUMACRATs love their country. Obamacrats love Obama.

  30. Wha –? He’s afraid of having Bill around?


  31. A Clinton-Ford ticket! I LOVE it. How brilliant would that be? We should put a yoytube video together to promote it. KOs would have a stroke.
    Ya’ know, it just might work. BTW, I’m in starbucks typing on my iPhone and giggling. People must think ive completely lost it. 😉

  32. Elder sister here. I think (and have said many times) the VP slot is beneath Hillary. I won’t love her less if she takes it to get his sorry ass elected but he won’t get my vote. PUMA!

  33. regencyg – I have found some supers in your area – one is the Cheerleader Bill sponser – I wonder what he thinks about “ho’s”. Are you up to working them?

  34. Pat–Doogie Howser is about right, except it’s a terrible insult to Doogie.

  35. I am taking credit for Credit for Clinton/Ford – I was pushing that months ago on another site. My sister and her family are Tennessee residents.

    He’s also very cute – he just got married, so stay away regencyg.

    PUMA$ Who Donate Rock & Rule!

  36. New things to read today about how he is “just messing with ya!” (BO quote) This one from John Kass about how Bama’s backers on the “left”
    are “winching”:


    Evelyn Pringle writes this about John Kass, a Chicago Tribune columnist, one of the few who has been trying to warn America about Obama’s connections:

    Understanding what Tribune columnist, John Kass, has been referring to for years as the “Illinois Combine,” are also crucial to understanding the Board Game cases. In his March 28, 2008, column, Kass invited basically anyone to start using the term Combine, particularly “if they’re having difficulty explaining how two parties can be as one when there’s money on the table,” he said.

    In gathering comments for his column, Kass called former US Senator, Peter Fitzgerald [NOT Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald], who Kass describes as “the Republican maverick from Illinois who tried to fight political corruption and paid for it. For this sin, he was driven out of Illinois politics by political bosses, by their spinners and media mouthpieces, who ridiculed him mercilessly.”

    He asked the Senator, “what do you call that connection that Stuart Levine describes from the witness stand, you know that arrangement across party lines, with politically powerful men leveraging government to make money—what do you call it?”

    “The Illinois Combine,” he said. “The bipartisan Illinois political combine.”

    “And all these guys being mentioned, they’re part of it,” he told Kass.

    “In the final analysis,” the Senator said, “The Combine’s allegiance is not to a party, but to their pocketbooks.”

    “They’re about making money off the taxpayers,” he added.

  37. O/T does anyone know if Janis’ awesome flyers are available without the Denver Group stuff at the bottom? i know some ppl who are looking for flyers to hand out. hers are the best i’ve seen.

  38. Anything other than President Hillary Rodham Clinton 2008 is beneath her.

    Let’s Face it! Now, you BO idiots FACE IT!

    PUMA$ Who Donate Rock & Rule!

  39. Any candidate who can laugh at sexist and vulgar “jokes” and not take immediate steps to put a halt to such talk, is not worth the support of any group.

    What’s next, hysterical swipes at the killing of baby seals? Giggling repartees aimed at nursing home patients? Knee slapping hilarity about the homeless? Laughing in the aisles about domestic abuse?

    What a moronic candidate. Can’t even take a stand on stupidity!

  40. What is so hilarious to me is that Obama would even have the audacity to vet anyone else. Think about it. If he were the one being considered for VP, how many skeletons would fall out of his closet making him poison as anyone else’s VP? I doubt that there is anyone else in the Senate who has as many corrupt, anti-American friends as he does.

  41. Pat – since you put it that way – it all is pretty funny!

  42. Obama, Pelosi, Reid, …
    are far more dangerous than
    McCain, Pelosi, Reid, …. Gosh that is the truth.

    I am with you riverdaughter – NO VP for Hillary.

    Hillary will be the next president of the United States, I know it.

  43. Pat – Eddy left this morning. I told him you were jealous. He said he was sorry, but his heart belongs to me and Hillary.

  44. Carol: Is “he” still there?????

  45. Carol: Just for the record: Marilyn would be about 86 yrs old today. That makes you a cougar!

  46. http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/07/21/080721fa_fact_lizza?currentPage=1

    A New Yorker article entitled “Making It: How Chicago Shaped

    Note: Opensecrets.org lists the top donors for Obama and McCain:
    Time Warner, GE, and Microsoft are among Obama’s top donors. They are not among the top ones for McCain. I guess
    Obama will continue to be sold by NBC, MSNBC, and Time Warner.

  47. I was born a late twin of Marilyn’s.


  48. Pat – Why were you not at the party last night?

    Eddy was there!

  49. Kennedy would be a brilliant choice !!!
    While Hillary was still actively campaigning I wanted so much for her to mention him ( Harold Ford Jr ) as a possible VP choice , just to watch bo faint ……. but Kennedy would be a brilliant choice as well ….

    anyone but obama …………………..

  50. Bernie Mac is nothing short of a male chauvinist pig. And so is BO for that bullsh*t dance he did about ‘calling him out’ on it. I say let’s bring back the ‘oinking in unison’ trick my Mom’s friends used to do back in the ’70s when someone would make sexist remarks.

  51. No, no, no, no, no to Harold Ford.

    Ford is a young person and is quite far out (to the right) of the mainstream politics of younger people. We do not need someone with Ford’s politics representing young people. I don’t mind as much an older politician pushing old conservative politics, but not a young one.

    Ford is bad for the politics of my generation.

  52. Since when do I have a reputation as a homewrecker? Harold Ford is safe from me. So are Bill and Hillary.

    I mean, you know, I’m discreet. And only somewhat easy. You have to buy me a coke first before I’ll do anything.

  53. If you guys want to see the left intellectual AA community (BAR, BC and so on) run away from the a national ticket as fast as they possibly can, put Harold Ford on it.

    These guys used to send me the grades of all the members of the CBC, and Ford ranked constantly last. He is way too conservatives for them (okay us).

  54. why should the more qualified person me on the number 2 spot.. NOT!! NO DEAL!!!

    Also, Hillary has said no to that fraud 2 times!!!

    why would she want to be attached to that Obatitanic?

    let the “democratic” party fall part..

  55. Yeah Ford and Scarborough are best buds. But, hey Joe changed after he helped f&*k Hillary by repeatedly accusing Bill of playing the race card!

    I am the only one noticing that we are vetting VP’s for our next President, Hillary Rodham Clinton?

    PUMA$ Who Donate Rock & Rule!

  56. Popping in for a minute to plug the PUMA Seattle Action Meeting tonight–7pm


  57. Carol, are you sure that you are not Marilyn’s identical twin’s grand-daughter, who’s resemblence to her grandma & twin is JUST uncanny?

    That’s who I am in reference to Sophia Loren.

  58. Carol; I was at an all day pool party that turned into a late night pool party. By the time I got home I was pretty tired.

  59. joaniebone – call the media and let them know!

  60. Hillary VP? No way! Hillary is smart enough to stay away from this idiot.
    We don’t want her anywhere near him- I can’t stand to even see them together –I think she barely tolerates his nearness, she probably dunks herself in Clorox and burns her clothes after he puts his dirty paws all over her (God, the vile repulsive “unity” shows this woman has to put with!)
    ANY ticket with Obama is unacceptable.
    He is unqualified, undignified, and illegitimate. Period.

  61. Karolina NYC – By golly I believe you are correct!

  62. Don’t know why I’m in moderation …..

  63. On second thought, Harold Ford Jr. wouldn’t be a very good choice. He’s wayyyy too conservative. But, Dayum! He’s so hot I could bake cookies on him. And what with his experience on the House Budget committee, he could be very useful, very useful indeed. Now, can we get him to embrace same sex unions and benefits? If so, we can say he’s had political transformation of sorts.
    And what eye candy! We deserve it.

  64. I’ll make versions of those flyers with the URL sto contribute to Hillay’s debt, The Denver Group, the PUMApac and JSND … those for starters, I guess.

  65. Carol Diamonds!

    Our PUMA Conflucian Fundraiser Extraordinare Supreme!!!!

    We sure had fun last night – what a milestone. I hope Hillary debt numbers come out soon!

  66. Pat – yep! Eddy was heading over to your place, but he couldn’t get you on the phone.

    Missed opportunities is what makes the world go round!

  67. When Harold ran for the Senate he carried around a copy of the 10 Commandmants in his pocket and, someone can easily correct me if I am wrong on this, he is not in favor of gay marriage out of respect for his AA constituency.

    Harold is a first class panderer.

  68. Carol: *&^*$$$*#@)&@!!!!!!!

  69. Karolina, you look like Sophia Loren? Oh my gods, that’s a gorgeous woman.

  70. riverdaughter, on July 13th, 2008 at 3:05 pm Said:
    On second thought, Harold Ford Jr. wouldn’t be a very good choice. He’s wayyyy too conservative. But, Dayum! He’s so hot I could bake cookies on him.

    LOL!!! Harold Ford runs CIRCLES around Obama in terms of experience & know how. And in sex appeal too.

  71. SM – Thanks.

    I believe those numbers will magically appear as soon as BO posts his on the 20th.

    Our’s will have that TAAAAHDAMMMMMMMMMMMM factor attached. Of course, then BO will claim responsibility.

    PUMA$ Who Donate Rock & Rule!

  72. As discreet as they come 🙂
    http://entrepreneur.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/coke.jpg ….

    Maybe that is why I find Harold Ford so reasonable …sigh…

  73. I would pay to see Evan Bayh, Harold Ford Jr., and Bill Clinton campaign together. I would PAY.

  74. Clinton/Rendell for the ticket. Ed sure is a hottie in my opinion and Harold pales by comparison in that department. Sorry, rd, but Harold reminds me of Eddie Haskell. He was on Imus quite often and called him “Mr. Imus” all the time. Ick!!

  75. Aren’t there eye candy pols with decent politics?

  76. They must really think we are sheeple…Hillary as VP…hahahah

    BO as president – I would never sleep again. Actually haven’t been sleeping well for months.

    HRC as president – I would sleep like a baby.

    PUMAs Rock!!!

  77. regency: Time for your daily dip in the pool!

  78. Janis,
    thanks so much. i’ll do my best to get ppl to use them. they are so good!

  79. I don’t know if Janis would want this suggestion, but I agree with what she said somewhere yesterday that the FDR ad is the most powerfull one, and I was wondering if it might not be in keeping with today’s unspoken ever-present fears if she mentioned that FDR led the economy out of its most dismal decline back to health and to prosperity for the people.

    I’m only saying this now because I don’t know if I’ll be around later if/when she is here. So…..

    JANIS READ THIS if you are going through.

  80. Pat!!!!! Jeez we missed you last night at the Scratching Post!

    Ten Commandments? Hmph. Take the sex appeal comment back.

    What is it with these dumbass democrats that cave into the evangeli-freaks? Ted Kennedy didn’t become a Lion of the Senate because of his hair, it was because he STANDS HIS GROUND.

    I want strength & backbone in our party again, but they are so used to losing, they forgot how to fight. Hillary has all that & more, and they won’t even lift a finger for her.


  81. Oh cool. Janis you’re here now!

  82. No to Harold Ford Jr here. No! (Can I borrow Ted Stevens’ NO?)

  83. Bill Clinton was one of the last candidates who had “it”. Since then, not so much.

  84. Why Swannie, are you trying to proposition me? Has someone else asked you to proposition me? Oh, Bill, where art thou?

    The only hot politician that is aligned with my politics is William Jefferson Clinton.

  85. At least, we now know why the Dem party has repeatedly failed to hold the GOP to higher standards over the past 28 years. Half of our party is as gullible and narcissistic as their entire party is and they are trying to wrangle their way into the Republican power structure rather than kick it out entirely and construct a more honest and principle way of doing business.

    The Democratic party is attempting to exile the party of our party that objects to the GOP power structure in DC so that they can all get along and share the bounty of the public purse a little more equally.

    I think that is, ultimately, what this is all about.

  86. See I never understood when some people said backtrack was good looking …. now Harold Ford Jr .. now HE is good looking … but I think his appeal also comes from his well thought out statements and georgous eyes WAIT how did that get in there .. ok reasonable something … or other …..

  87. SM: I was out last night but I did catch up this morning. You guys rocked!

  88. Lori: I think you nailed it!

  89. SM,

    if you’re into corrupting angelic men and women, the 10 commandment thing could still be kind of hot.

  90. Clinton/Clark is still the strongest and most competent ticket imagineable.

  91. Janis,

    i hope i didn’t imply that i thought you should change your ads. someone yesterday asked you if it was OK to Photoshop the Denver ad stuff out and you said it’s fine. i was hoping that s/he would post it somewhere. i looked at Pumapac’s action center and didn’t see it. i think my vision is good enough today that i’d see them if they were there. (i found the action center so my vision can’t be too bad today.)

    but if you want to something else, that would be awesome. thanks again.

  92. As far as I am concerned, Clinton at the top of the ticket can choose whoever she deems helpful to the campaign. I trust her judgment and reasoning in her selection because we know she would be working on our behalf.

    (regency: Don’t even go there; she cannot have Bill in the second tier!)

  93. Gqmartinez,

    I don’t know if Clark can live down what he said about McCain. Hillary and McCain have a history of being immensely respectful to each other while disagreeing. This could open up a very unnecessary door between them.

  94. Regency, in Rome, when my friends and I were at the Colluseum (sp?) a group of men across the street started screaming “Sophia! Sophia!” , so that was the ultimate confirmation for me.

    But that was…um….a little while ago.

  95. Karolina: You have left me speechless!!

  96. Pat Johnson, on July 13th, 2008 at 3:19 pm Said:

    (regency: Don’t even go there; she cannot have Bill in the second tier!)

    Oh dear, I think Bill will be jealous of whoever’s riding under his wife. We’d better get him a Big Mac.

    Anyway, as long as he gets to be in teh Oval Office with her every night, he’ll be happy. She could use some hands-on advice.

  97. Karolina NYC: I’m thinking we need to do a PUMA calendar of all the hot people on our team. It would SELLLLLL. I would buy six of them.

  98. There is nothing wrong with the Big Ten. I do think there is a problem if he has to carry them in his pocket – it leads me to believe he must have a short memory.

    regencyg needs to pay attention to that part about coveting………. also, I’m going to have to see your id, you may be too young to hang out her. (If you need a fake id, the guy who did BO’s birth certificate may be available.)

    PUMA$ Who Donate Rock & Rule!

  99. Would somebody please through a couple of ice cubes on regency?

  100. Why, Pat? I always figured you as another movie-star look-alike. Just don’t know which one.

  101. Clark didn’t say anything shocking or controversial at all. Essentially: “millitary service alone does not substitute for executive experience”. It was a manufactured controversy that Obama could have killed, instead he perpetuated the faux outrage. And that should be a clue to what an Obama presidency will be like.

  102. Carol: Shows ID. I’m legal. Nyah.

    Pat: Can Bill pass them?

  103. regency: Pay no attention to the lady behind the curtain named Carol. She is trying to rid this blog of all competition for Ed. Me, you, joaniebone.

  104. Remarks of Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton on Privacy to the American Constitution Society

  105. Karolina: Think Cindy Crawford.

  106. I’m done with Eddy. He’s heading back to Hillary. He is in love with her. (It was just sex with me.)

  107. Pat: I don’t want Ed myself but I’ll defend to the death your right to give him a lap dance.

    For me, it’s Bill, Evan, and Harold. The Trifecta of men I believe in, believed in, and never knew but. Big Dawg 4 EVAH. Evan let me down at FISA. Harold was not on my radar but he is evah so purty.

  108. We don’t want to be like the “progressives” who fall all over themselves each time they hear the name Chuck-F-ing-Hagel. He said 2 nice sentences and these idiots immediately forget about his horrendous voting record and his anti progressive position on every single issue.

    It’s bad enough that Arianna is running from studio to studio to speak on behalf of Democrats.

    You want to add Harold Ford to that sorry way of doing business?

  109. Oo, yeah, the Ten Commandment thing is so Elmer Gantry. Ahhh, c’mon MABlue, he doesn’t have to make policy. He can be in charge of fiscal responsibility or something. What if he took back all of the stuff he said about same sex unions? What if he says he now realizes how stupid he’s been and he realizes that maybe what playes well in Tennessee doesn’t cut it in the rest of the country and that he has learned to be open?
    Think of it this way: Markos absolutely HATES the guy. With a capital H. Just the thought of Ford as Clinton’s running mate would cause him to pop a carotid.

  110. I would prefer she come out as Senator Webb did and say no way I just say NO and stop covering for these clowns and stop trying to save them from themselves. Look much more and the down ticket is in trouble and that’s bad we need to keep Congress at least in the Dem Party’s hands give up the WH until 12 when she runs and Dean, Brazile, Pelosi have been run out of the Party. Under no circumstance will I vote for Obama IMO there is something fundamentally wrong with the people he surrounds himself with inclusive of this last long term friend calling women whores and such. Any women again IMO would be a fool to vote for Obama he, his friends and his supporters obviously have a big problem with women and really fear strong women I will not can not ever vote for this him no matter and I’m starting to have a problem with the Party in general what Dem came out and said WHAT THE are you insane one heckler had the smarts to shout BM down.

  111. All the vp speculation not withstanding .. ( and I dont know if I could stand 4 years of Harold Ford JR swoon ) I do think you are correct riverdaughter , when you say that backtrack even mentioning Hillary as a “not ruled out ” candidate… and jeeez lewwweezze he even has to do that in a backhanded negative way … is a big sign he is in trouble and fishing for a response , because he really doesnt want her …

    If his animosity and narcissism didnt stand in the way of common sense he would have offered it to her immediately as a way of cementing the party and the democratic win …. and that of course also stands upon the shifting sands of his nomination …which in my estimation was not legitimate or legal …

    After all HILLARY really won …

  112. Carol: I think he thinks of her as his idealistic but street-smart kid sister. Mike Easely wanted her (see the Hillary_daily Livejournal community for proof). Evan Bayh and her might have just beeen making out every time the cameras turned off (see aforementioned community, as well as HillaryandEvan on LJ for evidence). Bill didn’t like how much Evan touched her. He literally had to separate them once.

  113. Afternoon all!

    gqmartinez, on July 13th, 2008 at 3:17 pm Said:
    Clinton/Clark is still the strongest and most competent ticket imagineable.



    No question whatsoever. That ticket would relegate McCain to like 100 electoral votes. It would be massive electoral destruction to the Republicans.


    at this point, if Hillary becomes the nominee, she MUST offer Obama the VP position. As much as I detest that idea, his status as the presumptive nominee for so many months would have to be acknowledged.


  114. Pat—very nice!

    Oh, about the BO birth certificate. Yesterday when I went to a site that was suggested at the evening thread, there was an article there that said that Michelle had told Huff-n-Stuff in an interview that BO’s mom was very single when he was born. That is what I was suspecting was the problem with the MIA document, but isn’t it stupid to cover it up? Unless he was afraid that then he’d be pinned down on lying in his book?

    I don’t know…

  115. Either she has to offer him VP-which I don’t think he’d take–or it has to be unquestionable that he is not electable or that his presence jeopardizes the ticket.

  116. Madamab: I concur. They’re sort of like Harry Potter and Lord Voldemort.
    Neither can live while the other survives. And we all know how that went.
    Nope! I’m not telling those of you who didn’t finish the seventh book.

  117. Clinton as VP – no, no, no.

    Many a commentator has mentioned Hillary returning to the Senate as a ‘powerful” force, someone to take over Kennedy as the “lion of the Senate”.

    Never have I read anywhere a comment on Obama, Senate, powerful, or lion. He needs to go back to school. Running because you’re an unknown and might be able to sneak into the presidency is not the answer to America’s problems. Surely we learned a lesson after eight years of George Elementary Bush.

  118. RD: the 7th book sucked. Gah!

  119. regencyq – Can Obama implode fast enough for him to be removed from consideration?

    Yes, he can! 😉

    P.S. NO Harold Ford Jr. Right-wing to a fault. Blurk.

    You may, however, put him in a calendar. 😉

    By the way…I don’t look like a movie star, but I’ve been told I resemble Julianna Margulies.

    Or your cousin from Queens. One of the two.

  120. I prefer to think of Hillary relaxing in her backyard, sipping a cool drink, watching the polls decrease, just waiting for the other shoe to fall before August 25th. There is a hint of a smile on her serene face as she hums, “I told you so”. She tugs at her PUMA shirt and wordsmiths her acceptance speech.

    Denver is the “Happenig” this year.

  121. Hee hee, RD – you went all Harry Potter on me!

    Yes, I read it…and I agree.

  122. Madamb: Ooh, Julianna. She was my favorite part of ER.

    I’m setting the calendar up as we speak. Bill is August. Harold? Evan is September. What month could RFK Jr. be?

    Are there any other attractive politicians?

  123. regencyg: I *liked* the seventh book. It was darker and more psychological. My favorite is the Prisoner of Azkaban though.

  124. The Dems are in a no win situation if Obama becomes the democratic presidential nominee. If he would choose another female –other than Hillary—there would be a revolution beyond words—-If he chooses a male—there will be problems—–if he chooses Hillary and she accepts—there will be all sorts of conflicted voters and more than likely the Dems will win—in spite of all the injustices—personally, I will not support a Obama/Clinton ticket, under any circumstances because it gives really bad messages on so many levels to this country and the world. The one thing the Democrat party did not consider with all this corruption is that Hillary has been a figure for decades that is loved and respected and for those who did not really know her because of the media lies in the past, they were able to see who she really is for themselves. I will keep to my belief that she will still be the democratic nominee for POTUS until the final decision is made.

  125. I often wondered if the marriage was even considered legal what with his having a family already in Kenya and the fact that his visa may not have permitted it. There is a picture of them together that is supposedly one taken after the marriage that day. Not that it matters overall.

  126. After 2000 and after I woke from the self-induced coma, I finally came to terms with the prospect that I could possibly last out the remainder of BushBabies’ term. I had to trick myself on a daily basis to pretend I was having a nightmare when in fact I was awake.

    Then, came Kerry. On the night of the election, I literally could not decide who was going to be the worst.

    People, this is a plea for my life. I cannot tolerate McCain or BO. Hillary has to win. Hillary has to be the President. Hillary has to save us. The Universe, the Planet, the United States of America, the states, the counties, the cities, the neighborhoods, each individual home, each individual person is at stake!

    Someone, Somewhere save us from this moron.

    PUMA$ Who Donate Rock & Rule!

  127. Ok, no Harold Ford Jr. as VP but can we get him to campaign for her? A lot?

  128. Please do no give away the ending. The 7th book is still sitting here and I have not gotten around to reading it yet.

  129. No to VP for Hillary! She doens’t need to be anywhere around that train wreck. But Hillary has to be very careful about this. If he hints that he has offered it to her and that she declined, the media will continue to paint her as an ungrateful bitch if she dares try to have her name on the ballot in Denver. And BO will just shrug and say “well I tried” and they’ll all go fawning over him again.

  130. Mirlo, the Goldberg piece rocks. Thanks.

    RD, you are right, this is the driving strategy of the moment; I smell the exhuast(ion) behind it, and its inevitable backfiring.

    My nose also tells me that if he keeps this sort of thing up, BO will find more and more voters turning away from him as the summer advances.

  131. I was also “very single” when my daughter was born–however, I was on US soil when it happened. Where in the world IS his birth certificate? And why isn’t anyone producing it? I couldn’t even get a social security number without one, ferchrissakes. I would think with all Michelle’s legal education AND their $6 mil a year she could get THAT job done.

  132. RD: I love Prisoner of Azkaban. It was the perfect length, it was perfectly written. I liked the movie but it upset me so much because it just didn’t conform to how I’d seen it in my head. I’d been so looking forward to it. The 7th one was fine. It was very dark, though very emo for me, as well as having a I felt a lot of stretches of time wasted doing nothing. I love dark things. I’ve written very dark things; that wasn’t the part I minded. I minded the ending.

    Pat: I’m fairly sure his father’s marriage to his mother didn’t count. He was already married in Kenya.

  133. Right, Energy. O’s in a heap of trouble. Where he belongs after his red state/caucus run.

  134. I liked her in MIsts Of Avalon too ….

  135. Whoever Hillary chooses is fine with me. Even Harold. I won’t like it but I can live with it. I guess.

  136. regency – Sheldon Whitehouse is teh hawt, but he voted the VERY wrong way on FISA. I guess if we are just going for faces, he would be a good pick.

    I think Russ Feingold is handsome too. 🙂

  137. Oh really. Skippy still likes Ginger and maybe skippy will still ask her to the dance. Really! Really!

    Riverdaughter is right. Who gives a f$*k if Obama is still considering if maybe Hillary can be…..WHO CARES.

    In January 2009, Hillary will be sworn in as president of the United States. All this stuff and back and forth is just that stuff to fill time.


  138. madamab; Julianna is beautiful! What a compliment being compared to her.

  139. Swannie, I was just thinking Mists of Avalon but I wasn’t sure anybody else had seen it.

  140. bbiab I have to go figure out why one of my DJS song titles arent showing up on the radio or the page ….. hugs to everyone ….

  141. Russ Feingold is another cutie patootie. Forgot about him.

  142. I still prefer professional musicians in their prime. My Mom used to have a huge crush on John Warner, but I could never see the attraction.

  143. Madamab: Hello Sheldon Whitehouse. He has a very appropriate name. Is he maybe aspiring to the Presidency?

  144. This old Puma in Louisiana shouts top spot only for Hillary. No vote ever for Obama.! I am having a hard enough time holding my nose to vote for Mary L. this time round. I am so happy that I have lived to see this Puma movement and groups like the Denver Group rise. Thank you to each of you.

  145. Russ Feingold for Hillary’s VP. Harold Ford as press secretrary – viewable every day.

  146. and trust me I have seen it I have the DVD and I have read and re read the book many many times 🙂
    ok bbiab … and one last thought the vp possibilities for backtrack keep “just saying no deal ” they want no part of him ..

  147. Later, Swaniie!

    The Boss is hot. I think for me people’s primes extend a lot longer that is common. The 50s and the 60s are so good.

    Have you see Paul Newman? That man is still smooth.

  148. this is an interesting op-ed

    picks out all the flaws with BO at present and why the party isn’t together.

    theDay.com (Conneticut)


  149. You can throw Joe Biden in there – he’s very handsome, and if he apologizes to Hillary publically, he can be her VP!

    Actually, let’s just make it simple and go straight to Chelsea!

    PUMA$ Who Donate Rock & Rule!

  150. PJ – I feel the same way. I really do trust her judgment on VP.

    Obama is vetting Dodd, I hear, while he is not vetting Hillary. Dodd would be a decent sop to Obama’s “progressive” fanboyz, but he would do nothing to help with the Hillaryites Obama needs to win over.

    Obama is in serious trouble. And have you seen his latest attempt to court the Hispanic community? Apparently he thinks they have a king or something.


  151. Dodd is neck-deep in Countrywide. There is something wrong with these men. Invite scandal for breakfast why don’t they?

    I like Joe Biden, just on character but I’ve never really looked at him. If only Chelsea was older. She will be 2016.

  152. This essay by Riverdaughter is dead-on. Hillary is sitting there with at least 1600 pledged delegates. All she needs is for a bunch (not all that many, maybe another 200 in addition to what she has) of superdelegates to decide that she is the only one who can fix the tanking economy, or that Obama can’t win, and she is nominated. I’ve seen races which were not even this close, where there was suspense at the convention, on various procedural votes. All the superdelegates vote in secret, How is it a certainty that the ones who already came out for Obama will stay with him, given that no superdelegate commitment is at all binding until they actually vote?

    Obama is about three points ahead of McCain in recent polls. And he’s not bringing in much money. If he can somehow fall behind in the polls before the convention, the Party leaders may start to panic. Hillary has to sit tight, accept no deal which forces her to give up her delegates, say no to any VP offer. Obama’s and the DNC’s desperation to stop her from being nominated is palpable. When you’re playing poker, and your opponent who has more chips starts playing as if he’s afraid he might somehow lose them all, you do not take any “splits” or “chopped pots,” you stay in there and play for it all.

  153. PJ – I agree – it is a very kind, and undeserved, compliment. Of course, Julianna is no Cindy Crawford, but hey, I’m only 5′ 4″. 🙂

    Oooh, Harold Ford as Press Secretary. Now THAT is a great idea! Yum.

    Carole H – You rock! Country before Party. 🙂

  154. madamab: I see that Larry Johnson is starting his own radio show and it just occured to me that we kind of excel in snark here. Why don’t we podcast some of your one act plays?!

  155. I still love Hillary so much and I think she was the one chance we had. To be honest I don’t follow politics anymore. I want to snooze when McCaine or Obama comes on the TV. I used to be glued to it. Read non-stop, political radio and CNN on in the background.

  156. Liked the op-ed, pumaalliance. Our paper is deep into O – even though they will endorse McCain (Hillary hatred rampant here in Tx)

  157. Any word yet on the total fundraising numbers for Hillary?

    Clinton/Obama is the only way to go but you must put Clark in as Secretary of State. Faaaaaabulous.

    Also, are we sure what the discussions are for HRC on the ballot and HRC’s delegates getting to vote? I know we have heard many things but anything concrete?

  158. what about Mark Warner? I mean for the calendar, not VP

  159. I have an idea:

    As soon as we know the NOMINATION RESULTS of the convention in Denver, IF Hillary is not the nominee to run for president, we should immediately institute a FUND to donate into to help Hillary run as INDEPENDENT in 2012.

    Imagine, if 2.5 million people donate an average of $10 dollars a month, in three years the FUND would have collected about $900,000,000 dollars.
    Now, how would that be used?

    -Year # 1(end of Aug 2009) = $300,000,000 dollars:

    Use this fund to help Hillary with her Senate reelection campaign as well as other INDEPENDENT/PROGRESSIVE
    PARTY candidates in other states. Since I appreciate Congresswoman Tubbs-Jones, Congresswoman Jackson-Lee, L.A. Mayor Antonio Villaraygosa, Governor
    Rendell (ouch!), Governor Bayh, Mayor Nutter and others
    having helped and campaigned for Hillary earlier, we might consider helping their campaigns also, if they’re still “friends”.

    -Year # 2 (end of Aug. 2010) = $300,000,000 dollars:

    Continue to build the Independent/Progressive Party grassroots, inform the public through not too expensive means. Continue to help candidates that run on platforms
    consistent with progressive, inclusive, respectful ideals.
    Keep at least half of the funds ($150,000,000) for the upcoming Primary the following year (2011).

    -Year # 3 (mid 2011) = $250,000,000 + $150,000,000 dollars (total of $400,000,000):

    Ready to roll!. Hillary runs for President of the Independent/Progressive Party with a good fund,. The Party would also have funds to help the downticket candidates.
    And, as we would continue to donate an average of $10 dollars a month for at least another year, we would have another $300,000,000 by summer 2012, to continue to strengthen our new party.

    What do you think?

    A PUMA

  160. tomboys, the presumptive nominees are boring. that’s all there is to it. all the excitement fizzled out when Hillary suspended her campaign.

    we need to keep the excitement alive.

  161. Kiki: Nahhh, I met Mark Warner at that party he threw at the sky needle thingy in Vegas two years ago. Nice guy, GREAT party (loved the martini bar with the two foot hole drilled through the ice block and the flashing ice cubes. Nice touch.) But he’s way too toothy. Friendly, intelligent, nice looking but he ain’t no Harold Ford.

  162. tomboys: That is most of the reasons why we hang out here as well.

  163. William–the poker analogy is brilliant. One more reason for her to say no deal. I’m still fantasizing about August and how incredible it would be to blow BO out of the water. The neighbors would hear me howling again.

  164. Harold has sexy eyes. That about covers his appeal. Now Ed Rendell……he has it covered entirely.

  165. Clinton as VP — some data, or just noise in the numbers?

    (disclaimer: I am strongly against Clinton as VP; I couldn’t stand to watch her play second-fiddle that that rolling ball of nothingness).

    Gallup’s polling: Since June 22 at least, Obama and McCain have been between tied and 6 points. However, Obama’s gotten a significant bump each time he appears at a Schmoonity event with Clinton. It happened after the Unity NH event, and after last week’s joint fundraising appearances for major donors.

    Now, this same trend hasn’t cropped up in Rasmussen (the other daily polls I watch). So maybe it’s nothing. The margin between them is so close, and usually within the MOR anyway, it could be just noise. And yet….

    June 22 – 26: avg spread = 1.2
    June 26 – Schmoonity Event
    June 27- July 5: avg spread = 4.4
    July 6 – July 9: avg spread = 2.75
    July 10: first big major donor joint fr effort
    July 10-12: avg spread = 4.3

    Of course, I could criticize my own data above — as I said, could mean nothing. But I’m sure BO’s campaign has its own polling on the issue. But it could mean that his numbers go up when he appears jointly with Clinton.


  166. lol RD, he is toothy. I lived in VA when he was governor and he was really popular, I never heard anything bad about him. we all had bumper stickers that said “Mark not John”

    but he is toothy, you got me there.

  167. Amazonia: It makes sense.

  168. RD – Absolutely! Podcasting would be great.

    My husband and I were going to record “Obama Hears a Huh?,” possibly for regency, but he’s had laryngitis for the past week and we haven’t done it yet. I would love to make a podcast happen somehow. I have no resources, but I have a really great speaking voice (I am told) and of course, could direct the voice actors.

    We all know who will be playing Nancy Pelosi, right, PJ?

    Also, Amazonia – I have had thoughts along these lines too. I think we should be considering the future of the PUMA movement too – I think we should replace Moveon.org, which because of its early favoritism for BHO, totally lost its credibility. We are already more than 2 million strong, and as my hubby commented recently, “It’s probably more like 18 million.”

    Something to think about, eh, PUMAs?

  169. Kiki, don’t you mean the “apparent nominees,” to quote Big Dawg.

  170. If we give BO is fake presidential seal back and allow him to use it anywhere at anytime, do you think he would just go away?

    You know he has got to be scared shitless!

  171. I kinda like “presumptuous nominee” too

  172. Valhalla, but is that minor bump enough in the long run? It’s a minor bump and it never lasts once he starts opening his mouth again. Is that enough?

    Maybe if they tried flipping it with her on top and polling that way, but I don’t see that number carrying in the long run. He’d have to have her at his side every. single. day to off-set the losses he suffers from tacking to the right.

  173. I’ve been thinking for a while now that if there was ever a good time to launch a thrid party, this is it. the republican party has so fractured itself and alienated party faithful with evangelicals and neocons. it’s amazing that the democrats would see this and then essentially do the same thing.

    so many people feel politically homeless. I’m not saying we need to grab the disenfranchised from the right, just that people of all political persuasions are drifting these days.

  174. http://www.youtube.com/DemConvention

    Send your videos to these fools.

  175. well, i know for certain that there are Hillary surrogates who campaigned for her who have to show the “unity” face, but in reality do not intend to vote for BO either.

  176. I actually think they would have got away with it if they had announced Hillary as VP within the first 2 weeks. That’s how the gracious Unity/Coalition act is done — not the silly dog and pony show they put on. Because of the kind relatively strictly 2-party of government we have, where coalitions are rarely needed, people just haven’t learned and don’t understand the process. At least not those who don’t read up foreign news, which apparently is most of the DNC.

    Oh well, all the better as far as reform is concerned. They definitely didn’t see an organized analysis of their crimes coming, nor did they apparently think anyone older than a 22 yr old obamabot was capable of internet organizing. Lots of lessons learned methinks.

  177. River Daughter, I thought you went on vacation!

  178. Madamab—I think that your plays would be good as animations—with all of the characters in caricature.

    JANIS—are you here?

  179. Karolina NYC – I like the animation idea very much. Boy, too bad I am a working class gal with very little disposable income…:-)

    RD – please write me at madamab at gmail dot com, if you wish to further discuss podcasting my plays. 🙂

  180. regencyg, on July 13th, 2008 at 3:31 pm Said:

    Hillary_Daily has my favourite Hillary picture. It was so sweet seeing Chelsea going to hug Hillary 🙂

  181. The best possible VP for Hillary is still Evan Bayh.

    On another front, my peeps at BAR always tell it like it is:

    ‘Progressives for Obama’ Fool Themselves

    The only people who pretend that Obama is a “progressive” are a few Leftists, and Right-wingers that hate Leftists. “But the most important reason that ‘Progressives for Obama’ should have never existed is its utter lack of content.” Progressives have been playing “make-believe” with the Obama campaign, dubbing it both “progressive” and a “movement” when there is no movement or progressive content to the campaign. Some progressives are guilty of providing “a veneer of progressive credibility to a candidate who was nothing of the kind.

    The “Progressives for Obama” project was always doomed, largely because the candidate was determined to pull the rug from under it at his earliest opportunity. That time has arrived, in such dramatic fashion that even the corporate media recognize that Obama’s sharp Right turns are irreversible and much more clearly reflect his essential political nature.

    Come on. Give it up. These guys got game.

    Watching Obama sell out quicker than the i-Phone, who can disagree with this:

    The “Progressives for Obama” project was always doomed, largely because the candidate was determined to pull the rug from under it at his earliest opportunity.

  182. RealWorldRadical: You hit the nail on the head. Anything they do now will look like desperation. They can’t win without her so they throw her on the ticket as an afterthough.

  183. Downlisten, they have the very best pictures. Everyday. I haven’t been as much lately because I have a low tolerance for Unity pics.

  184. must see from GeekLove / HRC in 08

    No Deal: I’m Looking Through You

  185. Hillary as VP actually makes me sick. If she were to take it, it would be a really sad election, because I would have to vote against that ticket. I will NEVER vote for Obama. It doesn’t matter if Jesus himself were VP.

    Not gonna happen.

    If the Democrats want to win the white house, they better nominate the winner of the popular vote, the people’s choice, the one with the experience, the one with the plans, Hillary Rodham Clinton.

    We accept no substitutes!


  186. I agree, it seems like a perfect time for a successful party launch. Talk about the history books.!

  187. Sorry guys. I have to disagree. I do not like Harold Ford Jr. He is way too conservative to be a Democrat for my taste. I think he would be better as a Republican.

  188. kiki, I am with you. I want a new party. One that is built from the ground up with what we have learned about Democracy over the past 232 years.

  189. Pat–I’ve worked out a “timeshare” on Ed. It’s the best I can do. Now if you need more than that, it’s a CATFIGHT.

  190. I haven’t been around here much for the past week, but doesn’t it seem like most of the trolls have given up? I wonder if they are discourged about all of Obama’s flip flops. They really don’t have any arguments left now that Obama doesn’t support Roe v. Wade or the Fourth Amendment.

    I don’t want Hillary for VP either. I want Obama to drop out!

  191. joaniebone – I wonder if Ed Rendell knows that he is a love object to many PUMA ladies? 🙂

  192. Mawn:

    I was working hard on building that fortress of resistance even by myself:
    MABlue, on July 13th, 2008 at 2:59 pm Said:
    If you guys want to see the left intellectual AA community (BAR, BC and so on) run away from the a national ticket as fast as they possibly can, put Harold Ford on it.
    ( … )He is way too conservatives for them (okay us).
    I wasn’t done:

    MABlue, on July 13th, 2008 at 3:13 pm Said:
    No to Harold Ford Jr here. No! (Can I borrow Ted Stevens’ NO?)

    As you can see, I am very happy to welcome you.

  193. bostonboomer – YES PLEASE. Obama needs to drop out for the good of the party. He is disastrous to the Democratic Brand.

  194. You know what guys? It is all a coup. The party leaders are geniuses. They have excelled themselves this year. You see, Obama is just a decoy presumptive nominee so that the republicans won’t go after the REAL nominee, Clinton. She will be spared all the bad campaign swift boating stuff from now and until August and after the convention, they will be caught off guard so much when the party in its infinite wisdom nominates Clinton that it will be too little too late of their swiftboating and we will win in November to make Clinton our first woman president. Give the DNC and the party elders some benefit of the doubt, ha? 😉

  195. pm317 – LOLOLOL!

    If only they were that smart.

  196. speaking of good ole Ed … what ever happened with HOUND? I haven’t heard any more…..

  197. madamab,

    We should send him one big, sweet PUMA valentine.

    From Mawm–“Hillary as VP actually makes me sick. If she were to take it, it would be a really sad election, because I would have to vote against that ticket. I will NEVER vote for Obama. It doesn’t matter if Jesus himself were VP.

    Not gonna happen.”

    Thank you, Mawm. What you said!

  198. I have always been of the school that thought he did that to draw attention and give legs to PUMA. He’s a sly old dog.


  199. pm317,

    Damn that’s some good stuff. Can I have some?

    I wanna believe that–I really want to believe that.

  200. regencyg, on July 13th, 2008 at 4:33 pm Said:

    Can’t stand them too. They make me want to vomit and scream for BO to stay away from Hillary. He stands too close to her and treats her like an old lady with all the hand holding.

  201. Donna Brazile says “highly unlikely Hillary will be on nominating ballot at the convention” today on George S’s
    ABC talk show.

    Now we know. No intention of giving her any respect.

  202. Progressives for Obama was as much of an oxymoron as unified Democrats.

  203. BB: Their weakest and most recent talking point is about Bill running as a centrist and why it isn’t good enough for Bo to do. It’s as ridiculous as it sounds. Bill never ran as a deep leftist. He always ran as a centrist. BO used his “progressive” credentials to get the “nom” but shifted to the center to “win.”

    There’s no comparison, but that is their talking point.

  204. bostonboomer, it’s like the trolls have all but given up all over the internet. There are some still around, but they are not in huge numbers like before. I agree, I think it is possible he is totally losing all credibility.

  205. john – OMG! So when the DNC told 50,000 PUMAs the opposite, they were lying?

    Or is Donna just audaciously hoping?

  206. He doesn’t understand the concept of personal and professional space. You don’t touch your female colleagues this way. It isn’t done and it’s kosher.

    John: Then it looks like we Howard Dean has some explaining to do because his office is saying she will be. Tsk, tsk, tsk. Now, we’re the party that lies.

  207. It isn’t kosher, DownListen.

  208. Carol, I would add, if we give him back his fake presidential seal, and let him pretend to be president as much as he wants, in whichever television show he wants, can we adults then go ahead and elect a real one to do the real job?

  209. Didn’t we all say that was too good to be true? They were up to something then and they still are. Now we have to make some more noise.

  210. Brazile is nuts to say that it’s unlikely that Hillary will not be put in nomination at the Dem convention. if Clinton’s not on the nominating ballot , the Dems will find out how un-unified the Dem party can be. it will be their fault. (it already is but it will get even worse.)

  211. Magdalena, I will petition to bring the West Wing back on the air so that he can play Matt Santos, if he will leave America alone.

  212. @Amazonia, on July 13th, 2008 at 4:01 pm
    I like the idea, but see some problems.

    Especially in the early phases, how will Senator Clinton be (temporarily) insulated from the queries and accusations that will be directed at her from all political directions?

    Will we be understanding, if Senator Clinton must disavow or decry the movement (perhaps, all the way to near fruition)?

    Will we be agile and accommodating enough to transfer the movement back to the Democratic Party, if it is successful and H.R.C. requests it?

    These are a few of my initial, not fully formed questions.

  213. regencyg —

    I don’t know if it will be enough. I don’t want her on the ticket at all, I want her to run as far away from that as possible. But from the little VP polling out there, she at least gives him some little bit of advantage. No one else really does. The one thing we know about him is he’ll do anything to win.

    AND given how stupid his campaign and the DNC has been regarding PUMA — they don’t understand at ALL what we’re about, I can see them thinking Hillary as VP would bring us back into the fold. I mean, many pundits have opined that putting Sibelius on the ticket would bring us back — yes, they are that stupid — so I can see them looking at polls and thinking Hillary as VP would do it.

    John — Brazile — ok words cannot describe my antipathy — but she, like the mouthpiece of Sauron, often speaks for the DNC and the Precious.

    This means two things: 1) all the baloney various staffers have tried to shovel our way, ‘of course she’ll be on the ballot’ to shut us up is total bullsh*t; and 2) makes the case for PUMA clearer and better for undecideds and the OPumas RD describes in her PUMA Pac blog today.

  214. madamab,

    a WSJ article early this week(?) quoted Brazile as strongly suggesting that Clinton should withdraw her name. of her own accord (cough), of course. i think this is more of the DNC leaning hard on Clinton to take her name out of nomination so that BO can look good. they either don’t realize how many ppl that will seriously piss off; they truly believe they can win without women, blue collar voters, Hispanics, etc.; or they don’t care if BO wins.

  215. Carol—I just walked by an open TV and your great-aunt is on TCM in, Some Like It Hot, the movie that first told me that professional musicians in their prime are lots of fun, but, maybe, not so reliable. And, of course, I’d decided “who cares?” back then?

    Well, see y’all later.

  216. HWATCH: Roundtable: ‘Mental’ Recession?

  217. I have always maintained a belief that the DNC does NOT want to win this thing. It is one of the only theories I can envision that can justify all of the absolutely crazy things that have gone on within the party.

  218. regencyg, on July 13th, 2008 at 5:05 pm Said:

    It’s like those damn debates where he started pulling out the chair for her and people were saying that he was being respectful. GMAB why didn’t he do it back when the debates started? Why wait until after all the talk about the snub? I really hated him doing that. Please no VP spot for Hillary or this is what will happen for the next 8 years.

  219. sassysenora – well, thank goodness that these weak psy-ops tricks do not work on our girl. I am certain she has nothing but contempt for idiot Donna and the appeasing DNC.

    She will be on the ballot and she will certainly NOT withdraw. And if a fair vote is cast, I believe SHE will be the nominee.

  220. Here’s what Donna said http://abcnews.go.com/
    WATCH: Roundtable: ‘Mental’ Recession?

  221. ruh-roh – why am I in moderation?

  222. Sassy, that’s why we’ve got to take it to the downticket dems. If nobody comes to the polls or if they come to the polls mad, they don’t vote for the DT dems at all or they vote Republican in retaliation. That hurts them.

    I hope they’re starting to feel the pressure.

  223. Valhalla, what Brazile’s saying does not conflict with what the DNC has consistently told me about a roll call vote. as i understand it, the Obama camp (and probably the DNC) is trying to get Clinton to “voluntarily” withdraw her name.

    the DNC has consistently said there would be a roll call vote. i don’t think they can change that without looking VERY bad and alienating a lot of Dem and Ind voters beyond us PUMAs. (And it could alienate them for a long time.)

    however, if they can push Clinton into withdrawing her name or releasing her delegates, Obama can be coronated without those nasty PR problems. i think that’s what they’re trying to do. they’ve been signaling that since early July.

  224. Mawm…I agree ..to me BO almost has to havve her to win, and yet for her, for us, for the country, it’s bad. and yet, if she says no thank you, how does that look to the Dems. and the country? If she says yes, she ‘s the reason the Dems. don’t win in Nov. will be the outcry…no Vahalla is right, run away from it and say no before he asks openly.

  225. There is indeed a “mental” recession in the Democratic Party.

    Hillary does not want to withdraw her name. Her reasoning is either of the following: 1) She wants to raise her money first because she can’t collect if she withdraws her name. 2) She still thinks she’s best and that she has a chance.

    Why has no one asked Hillary herself about this?

  226. sassysenora, on July 13th, 2008 at 5:22 pm Said:

    Then there needs to be a letter writing campaign to Hillary and hope she will listen to her supporters

  227. regency,

    i’m not taking it to all the downticket Dems, just the turncoats who endorsed Obama when their districts (state if Senator) voted for Hillary. but that’s a lot of them!

    i’m glad you’re talking that up, though. bc IMO too many ppl are giving the turncoats a pass. they don’t want ppl to be yellow dogs and just vote for Obama bc he has a D after his name but then they want ppl to vote for downticket Dems just bc they have Ds after their names. no way!

  228. john, can you put the link directly to the video? I can’t find it.

  229. my 2 cents:

    Hillary is NOT withdrawing her name, and that is in her hands to do if she wishes.. and she WILL NOT…

    this is why she suspended.. why she said specifically that I want my delegates to be able to vote for me..

    This is one tough lady… heart of gold, spine of steel..


  230. Sassy, agreed on the first thing. Those who stood by Hillary get my vote no doubt, the rest are on their own.

  231. ssmith:

    I agree with you, but no one can say that I haven’t considered the cynical if uncharacteristic option.

    Obots suck. That’s just it.

  232. DownListen,

    yes we do need to let Hillary know that we want her name in nomination at the convention. writing is good. and paying off her campaign debt is critical. if they can’t hold that over her head, they have less leverage.

  233. Did anyone see Senator McCaskill on Meet the Press this morning? She was on with McCain’s national co-chair Carly Fiorina. Besides the normal back and forth between the camps and the common defense of Barry’s flip flops, what stood out to me was: When Carly Fiorina stated how she admired Sen Clinton and had great empathy for what she went through during the primary. McCaskill just sat there silent…

    How pathetic, it really seems as though the McCain camp is more interested in Clinton supporters, and getting our support, than the Obamaphiles…

  234. Gary:

    Ask and ye shall receive: Round Table: “Mental” Recession?

    From “This is Weak” with George Stephanopoulos.

  235. regency:

    you know.. my friend has a interesting point.. she thinks brazilla is playing physocological warfare, saying Hillary will unlikely be on the ballot..

    BUT.. I just don’t see Hillary doing it.. you know texasdem on Camille’s , she/he was describing how much $$ they spend on their own to travel to denver, get rooms.. etc.. so I can’t imagine Hillary would take off her name, all those delegates of hers..

    and end of aug is still 1.5 months away..

    lots of time for unraveling.. for the fraud

  236. highly unlikely she would be on the nominating ballot? this is like the british royal family immediately after Princess Diana died. someone is going to have to step in and save these people from themselves. they are completely tone deaf to what the public wants.

  237. Ssmith: I have a feeling your friend’s right. That’s what someone said on a conference call I recently took part in. There’ s a psychology to all of this and we have to understand it in order to make us of it.

    Right now, Hillary is having a glass of chardonnay while sewing (knitting? crocheting?) a voodoo doll of Mme. Brazile herself.

  238. ssmith,

    what does your friend say? bc it seems to me that this is backfiring if you look at PUMAs. when Brazile says stuff like that, it energizes Clinton’s supporters.

    maybe it will work with ppl who don’t follow politics but then how many of them watch Stephanapolis?

    (not disagreeing with your friend bc i think i don’t understand her point.)

  239. Hey can everyone here find it their heart to go and leave a welcome comments on Former Obama Supporters …many from PUMApac and NOQuarter are leaving comments we need them like they need us show them we are the people of UNITY give them some PUMA Love

  240. John, headed right over.

  241. DRII, on July 13th, 2008 at 5:33 pm Said:

    McCaskill, is jealous of Hillary. She is dumb since she has forgotten that Hillary raised money for her. She also made some stupid remark about Hillary the day she returned to the Senate. Lets hope Madeleine Albright was right when she said: There is a special place in hell for women who do not help other women because McCaskill should have the front row seat in that special bus to hell.

  242. Hey thanks regency

  243. Donna Brazilenutz lives in a tunnel with no light at one end and bo at the other , she actually thinks she can tell Sen. Hillary Clinton what to do .. this is the desperation of many losses grasping at power finally achieved , so she thinks……. This is someone who to my knowledge has never been elected to anything …….never held elected office or run for anything herself but always been an appointee . I think she has fatally underestimated the animosity toward her and loss of respect and credibility from literally millions of registered voting democrats . She has lived so long with loss she doesnt recognise winning and the more she tries in vain to push Sen Clinton out , the worse she makes the chances of bos winning . She is a on crash course with a mammoth loss . and still doesnt see it coming .When she said the dems didnt need the white working class, women and latinos , she wasnt even fully aware that she was giving away her ‘strategy” She gets really ruffled if anyone disagrees with her .. and she is basically a bully .. this is what she said..

    ” A new Democratic coalition is younger. It is more urban, as well as suburban, and we don’t have to just rely on white blue-collar voters and Hispanics. We need to look at the Democratic Party, expand the party, expand the base and not throw out the baby with the bathwater. ”
    This is dividing up the party and demonstrates her thinking .
    She obviously sees Hillary as a threat to bo as well , or she wouldnt want her out . so she is just continuing her direct route to a catartophic loss . . It is the only path she knows .

  244. sassysenora:

    I don’t think the morons at the DNC, like Brazille, have yet realised what you stated..

    the more they try to corner someone (us PUMAs), the more we are diging our heels in..

    remember they said the party will be “united” in one moneth since June 3rd (when Hillary suspended)…now.. you have over on 54% of Hillary supporters who will back the fraud.. and of that number over 20% will back mccain.. and these numbers will only increase.

    Brazilla saying what she does really is only for the psycological purposes.. I mean really, its in the rules that Hillary will be on the ballot at first rounds.. UNLESS Hillary decides to withdraw.. and she will not!

    The unification was supposed to take only 1 month.. after June 3rd, its is now July 13th, and the rift is only going to get wider.. and more they try to cram that kool-aid down, the more people will resist!

    anyways.. that’s my take on it

  245. *catastrophic. 🙂

  246. hey thanks for that link to This Weak…NOT. God…watching that vapid Access Hollywood piece set me back a few months of therapy! Squirt guns?

    It’s really weird. If Hillary isn’t going to get the nomination then we want her to be treated as badly as possible. Because IF he remains the illegitimate Dauphin of the DNC, we will need all the anger to stop him from ascending the throne.

  247. oops.. I meant only 54% of Hillary’s supporters who will back the fraud. and of the 46% who will not.. at over 20% will vote mccain..

    and these number will only increase…

    the repubs must be SOOOO SOOO HAPPY right now..

  248. Donna may have heard her mom tell her to play by the rules…

    However she definitely didn’t listen to her mother when she told her not to get seconds at the dinner table…

    What game is she playing? Does she realize she is pissing alot of people off?

  249. John, posted!

  250. John, couldn’t watch the link because I’m afraid I would smash the screen in disgust. I agree that this is psychological warfare, but I’m curious whether the intended adversary is Clinton supporters or Clinton herself. It won’t work against us, but it may discourage some other supporters. But, would it work against Hillary? She’s smart enough to know it, but would she give in to help the Dems?

    Oh, I have nightmares that Obama offers her the VP and she accepts. That would effectively end her political career, no matter what.

  251. ssmith,

    i also remember them thinking that Clinton supporters would back Obama by early July. i think i also remember Dean saying back in Feb (?) that either the Dems were going to lose a lot of AAs or a lot of women. i think he may have thought that it would be easier to get Clinton supporters to back Obama than Obama supporters to back Clinton.

    and then there were the millions of new voters (though there were also millions of new voters for Hillary that they didn’t seem to consider). and all the supposed money.

    i think the DNC badly miscalculated on this. i guess they thought we bitter, old, blue-collar, Hispanic women didn’t know how to use the internet or organize.

  252. should be and then there were the millions of new voters for Obama

  253. I think Clinton’s vote on FISA in the Senate on July 8th is reason enough that she should remain in the Senate–unless she is the prez nominee.

    I do not think she will have any leverage inside an Obama administration. Indeed, I think she will be humiliated by him and his cohorts. She may help get him elected, however, which may weigh heavily in favor of her accepting should she be offered the position.

    I would rather she be The Lioness of the Senate, working as hard as possible for progressive and liberal policies and legislation. We’ll some senators there who can stand up to bad policies from Obama, if these past few weeks have been any measure of how he will govern. And counsel him on judicial nominations.

    I have no freakin’ idea of how he will govern, btw. No idea what kind of judges he will nominate. And I don’t have much faith in his words, just words.

    Now, I’ll try to read all the comments!

  254. John – I went and posted a hearty welcome! Good for them – they are finally seeing through the BO hopey-changey BS.

  255. sassysenora:

    I’m asian, yep.. they HUGELY HUGELY HUGELY HUGELY miscaluculated..

    my friends and I are in our late 20s/early 30s.. they have no intention of voting for that fraud..

    and when all the sh*t that we know starts getting more traction, the number will only get higher who will not vote for that fraud.. and people will get even more PISSED for not going with someone who would have easily won the WH for some punk of a flash in the pan, with all those terrorist, racist, antisematic, anti-america ties.

  256. We’ve all worked with, for, or supervised someone like Brazile. She’s not an executive, she’s middle management who is reasonably intelligent, hardworking, organized, and willing to supervise others. But, she lacks the vision, long-range planning skills, unemotional logic, intelligent delegation, and leadership skills that a true executive has. When someone like her gets in a real leadership position, the individual becomes a bully, sticks to her own views, and the organization ultimately suffers.

    Fair disclosure, I’m not executive material either. I’m good middle management, but I’ve seen many people like her, and they can destroy everything in their path.

  257. i think he may have thought that it would be easier to get Clinton supporters to back Obama than Obama supporters to back Clinton.

    He and the rest of the party practically creamed their pants thinking, “This is gonna be AWESOME! This is exactly what we’ve been letting Roe hang by a thread for!” Finally, we’ll be able to pick up that bat and USE IT!”

    They thought all along that the more and more perilous the situation is for Roe, the more and more terrified their voters were of dying of septicemia after having half a coat hanger yanked out of our bloody, pus-filled cunts in an ER someplace, the better it was for them.

    They were salivating at finally being able to fire up their secret weapon. They’d honed it for decades. “YOU HAVE TO VOTE FOR US! ROE ROE ROE!” They almost came in their pants when they could finally roll it out.

    Problem: we’d suffered through eight years of a guy who picked a veterinarian as an advisor for women’s health, so we were used to putting up with a lot. Never play siege warfare with a perpetually hungry people.

    Second, we reacted with typically feminine overwrought hysteria (trans: we GOT PISSED) when our own party basically turned around and said, “It’s either the knitting needle up your twat or you vote for us, bitch. There’s your fucking choice. Where else you gonna go?”

    They’re learning. We will hurt them, and make them pay — and they will never, ever, EVER LEAVE OUR LIVES HANGING IN THE BALANCE LIKE CHESS PIECES EVER AGAIN. They are SCARED OF US.

    I like that they are SCARED OF US. Let them shake. I’m loving it. Shitstains, every single one.

  258. @ssmith, on July 13th, 2008 at 5:55 pm

    Is that:
    Obama = 54%, No Vote = 26%, McCain = 20%
    or is it:
    Obama = 54%, No Vote = 37%, McCain = 9% (20% of 46%)?

    Guesstimate or is there a source? [not being argumentative]

  259. old91A10:

    nope not being argumentative.. absolutely you should question everything.. it was on CNN… sorry I don’t have the link .. but on hillaryclintonforum.net, someone had posted that link

    its is :

    ONLY 54% of Hillary supporters will vote for that fool

    of the remaining 46%, a bit more than 20% will back mccain, the rest will either stay home or write in hillary..

    so 46% of 18 million is 8.2 million people not backing that fool, and this number I’m sure will go up once all the sh*t starts getting exposed by the repubs, and they don’t even have to lie,, its all true..

  260. Janis,

    i agree. I want them to be a lot more scared than they are now. A lot.

    i also agree that, at least unconsciously, they thought they could bully and beat women back to the Dems by using Roe. (i guess they didn’t know that Obama was going to take that stick away from them by telling reporters that he didn’t support Roe either. guess they shouldda checked that out. shouldda checked out a lot of other things about Obama, too. ) and i think a whole lot of them love the idea of beating women back and putting us in our place. they want to have an excuse to do it.

    i also think they unconsciously (?) thought that women were too dumb to effectively use the internet or organize. because we’re only good for doing the shitwork (e.g., GOTV or fundraising) in the campaigns. we’re too dumb and scared and silly to do anything but fall into line.

  261. ssmith, IIRC, it was 54% back Obama and almost 1/3 plan to stay home. i tried to track down exact numbers but couldn’t.

    here’s what i posted about it the other night:

    In a CNN/Opinion Research Corp. survey completed in early June before the New York senator ended her White House bid, 60 percent of Clinton backers polled said they planned on voting for Obama. In the latest poll, that number has dropped to 54 percent.

    In early June, 22 percent of Clinton supporters polled said they would not vote at all if Obama were the party’s nominee, now close to a third say they will stay home.

    In another sign the wounds of the heated primary race have yet to heal, 43 percent of registered Democrats polled still say they would prefer Clinton to be the party’s presidential nominee.

    That number is significantly higher than it was in early June, when 35 percent of Democrats polled said they preferred Clinton to lead the party’s presidential ticket.

    Obama won 59 percent of support from registered Democrats polled in June; now he garners 54 percent.


    so if only 46% of Clinton Dems (who are 43% of the Dems according to this poll) support Obama, that’s almost 20% of the party who won’t support him.

  262. Janis, You go! You have the warrior spirit. I am a man, but I wish women would stop letting the Dem men push them around on this issue. If they cared so much about it, why didn’t they push legislation to protext it instead of relying on whether or not a single person will be appointed to the Supreme court who may or may not uphold it?

    They are more than useless. They are evil for having played around with women’s rights in order to have a weapon that keeps them in line.

    Throw the bastards out!


  263. Janis. Bingo–again!

    I am loving the fact that they’re shitting bricks.
    As for Donna saying that to George, well—those ads of yours are going to be put to GREAT use after all. I forwarded mine to a Hillary delegate friend that also is the assistant to a big super-D here in Wa.

  264. I listened to the Brazile comment and I heard her say that there’s talk of Hillary throwing her name in, and then Donna said, “I don’t know if that will happen.”

    So John seems to have twisted her wording around a little.

  265. ——————————————————————————–

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  266. Janis: Roe v. Wade has been an albatross for women in this country of all political persuasions. The majority of those voting for Roe v. Wade legislations (on both sides) have been male. They have hijacked a very personal issue from women. While I do not always agree with those that are pro-choice, I believe women are better able to have that discussion on a national scale than what we’ve seen. It isn’t nearly as personal for men until campaign season begins.

    Roe v. Wade isn’t an issue for me personally. I’m pro-life and if one day it is abolished I will worry. <—Yes, you read that correctly. If abortions aren’t the solution, what is the solution? Notice how we never have that conversation.

    Abortion should not be a means of birth control when Suzie decides to have fun with no cover. However, what happens to women who are raped or the victims of incest? I’m not heartless to tell a woman that she must have that baby. Although, I’m just heartless enough to see legislation passed that castrates any male who rapes a woman.

    By hanging Roe v. Wade over women’s heads, they’re insinuating that women are unable to think about anything else. Guess what? We do! We worry about how to pay for the children currently alive in this country. We worry about gas prices that will adversely affect our families and jobs. We worry about what happens if there is another terrorist attack in this country. Obviously, since we have no energy policy or mention of doing something about the gas prices—women are the only ones (with the exception of highly intelligent males that do not work for either party’s leadership) that seemed to think about something else.

  267. Janis, on July 13th, 2008 at 6:19 pm Said:
    i think he may have thought that it would be easier to get Clinton supporters to back Obama than Obama supporters to back Clinton.

    He and the rest of the party practically creamed their pants thinking, “This is gonna be AWESOME! This is exactly what we’ve been letting Roe hang by a thread for!” Finally, we’ll be able to pick up that bat and USE IT!”

    They thought all along that the more and more perilous the situation is for Roe, the more and more terrified their voters were of dying of septicemia after having half a coat hanger yanked out of our bloody, pus-filled cunts in an ER someplace, the better it was for them.

    They were salivating at finally being able to fire up their secret weapon. They’d honed it for decades. “YOU HAVE TO VOTE FOR US! ROE ROE ROE!” They almost came in their pants when they could finally roll it out.

    Problem: we’d suffered through eight years of a guy who picked a veterinarian as an advisor for women’s health, so we were used to putting up with a lot. Never play siege warfare with a perpetually hungry people.

    Second, we reacted with typically feminine overwrought hysteria (trans: we GOT PISSED) when our own party basically turned around and said, “It’s either the knitting needle up your twat or you vote for us, bitch. There’s your fucking choice. Where else you gonna go?”

    They’re learning. We will hurt them, and make them pay — and they will never, ever, EVER LEAVE OUR LIVES HANGING IN THE BALANCE LIKE CHESS PIECES EVER AGAIN. They are SCARED OF US.

    I like that they are SCARED OF US. Let them shake. I’m loving it. Shitstains, every single one.

    AGREE WITH MAWM – Janis you rocked out the ballpark with this comment.

    BUT Swanspirt…

    swanspirit, on July 13th, 2008 at 5:45 pm Said:
    Donna Brazilenutz lives in a tunnel with no light at one end and bo at the other , she actually thinks she can tell Sen. Hillary Clinton what to do .. this is the desperation of many losses grasping at power finally achieved , so she thinks……. This is someone who to my knowledge has never been elected to anything …….never held elected office or run for anything herself but always been an appointee . I think she has fatally underestimated the animosity toward her and loss of respect and credibility from literally millions of registered voting democrats . She has lived so long with loss she doesnt recognise winning and the more she tries in vain to push Sen Clinton out , the worse she makes the chances of bos winning . She is a on crash course with a mammoth loss . and still doesnt see it coming .When she said the dems didnt need the white working class, women and latinos , she wasnt even fully aware that she was giving away her ’strategy” She gets really ruffled if anyone disagrees with her .. and she is basically a bully .. this is what she said..

    ” A new Democratic coalition is younger. It is more urban, as well as suburban, and we don’t have to just rely on white blue-collar voters and Hispanics. We need to look at the Democratic Party, expand the party, expand the base and not throw out the baby with the bathwater. ”
    This is dividing up the party and demonstrates her thinking .
    She obviously sees Hillary as a threat to bo as well , or she wouldnt want her out . so she is just continuing her direct route to a catartophic loss . . It is the only path she knows .

    Double backflips for you too.

    Our Conflucians are SHARP and SKILLED VOTERS. So proud to be among you guys.

  268. One of the MANY reasons I hate that RoevWade issue is that Dems were always telling Indys & Repubs not to be one issue voters, that there were many issues facing the nation other than abortion.

    Yet, these same Dems are expecting us to be one issue voters. Do they think we’re too stupid to realize that?

  269. john, on July 13th, 2008 at 5:00 pm Said:
    Donna Brazile says “highly unlikely Hillary will be on nominating ballot at the convention” today on George S’s
    ABC talk show.

    No one wants Donna Brazile out of the party more than me, but she did not say this on Steph’s show. Don’t quote John. All she said was “I don’t know if that will happen” when the subject came up.

  270. shaele,
    I look at the issue as control of my body. I don’t want the precedent set that the government can tell me what I can do with my own body.

  271. Guys, there are enough votes already on the SC to overturn Roe if they had the gumption to present it again. Kennedy, the one now considered a swing voter would more than likely vote with Thomas, Scalia, Alioto, Roberts. Catholics all.

    So the threat really is not holding much substance when you consider that group sitting as of now. They have watered down but have yet to actually ban it. They could if they wished to and the timing is right. So I cannot be threatened with that issue any longer. The votes are already there.

  272. And the right to privacy, whether in the bedroom or a doctor’s office has been seriously eroded with the FISA continuation. They will discover more and more areas of our lives that once belonged to us areas where they can snoop in the name of “national security”. Kiss that right goodbye.

    Backtrack wants his share of the pie so FISA stays. It is sickening.

  273. Dee Cupples from Buck Naked was in the capital and described Obama as follows;
    Unfortunately, Sen. Obama was chomping on a wad of gum as he made his way around the chamber floor, stopping every few feet to give enthusiastic hand shakes and shoulder pats to his visibly senior, mostly graying colleagues.
    Sen. Obama didn’t exactly swagger: it was more like a studiedly relaxed gate — like a high school athlete walking into an awards dinner.

    I’m so inspired by his judgement.

  274. Pat, I know. I can’t believe Republicans aren’t more outraged about all of this. Weren’t they the party that didn’t want government messing around in their lives? The problem for me has always been how selective they are at applying that rule, and I guess the Democrats are too. They love to have the government active in the areas they’re interested in.


  275. Gum chewing high school athlete about sums it up for me.

    The New Yorker, which I had cancelled a few months back due to the pro Obama coverage has finally begun to report the Chicago connections. Hopefully this is not too little, too late.

  276. Did you look at the cover that is hitting the stands?

  277. Pat, hadn’t seen you in awhile. I’m glad to now.

  278. Mawn:

    I respectfully disagree. Everything comes at a cost and I believe too many Americans are asleep at the wheel with little care that our right to choose anything is dwindling away rapidly.

  279. Just a reminder; Alegre will be on at 8 tonight on Blog Radio with Shari. I am going to try to call in since I so admire Alegre from her days at MyDD. She got creamed over there as a Hillary blogger but she never gave up.

    Hi Mawm! I have only been absent a few days. Nice to know somebody misses me once in awhile.

  280. Jmac: thanks for the clarification of Brazile’s words.

    Frankly, I find even that answer puzzling. Why wouldn’t one just assume that Hillary’s name will be on the nominating ballot? I find her response suspicious, and she’s definitely earned that distrust.

  281. The birth certificate may name him as Barry Dunham,
    somewhat less sexy than BO. Probably has no legal change of name forms filed, so he’s using the name he wants instead of his legal name…just a guess.

  282. I thought we were told by “Nancy’s” office and the office of the DNC that Hillary was definitely going to be on the ballot. What is Donna doing?

  283. That is the supreme irony of the FISA vote; once you start down that slippery slope the amount of intrusion inflates. No one is safe because like statistics, it can be interpreted to mean anything you want it to.

  284. I wonder if Donna B is aware that she is more despised than Warren Jeffs?

  285. Mawn:

    Depends on your definition of ‘outrage’. As any Hillary supporter can see now, getting your message out to America with the MSM (mainstream media) is going to be difficult at best.

    What do you do when the Washington Post, NY Slimes (funny to watch Democrats refer to them with the FReeper nickname), MSNBC, CBS, ABC, NBC, CNN, and other media outlets are so biased against conservatives and Republicans?

    No outrage over the attempt to repeal the Fairness Doctrine. Talk radio is the conservative land because we have very few mediums from which to work. Oh wait! We have Fox News, but for years Democrats have railed against the bias on that network. Is it bias or do you actually get to hear the conservative and Republican view rather than having 4 Liberals versus one conservative?

    Welcome to our world!

  286. Janis, you are definitely the Queen of Rant. I don’t mean that in a good way, I mean it in a *GREAT* way! Every line you write packs a punch – please don’t ever stop!

  287. shaele,

    it was the Republicans who repealed the Fairness Doctrine. all the Dems i know have been wanting to bring it back for years. i’ve written all my Dem reps and Senators. they’ve all said the Dems have tried to bring it back and it would be great to have it.

    but they haven’t been able to bc they Repubs don’t want it.. if the Repubs want it back, we can get it back. i think that would be great.

  288. shaele; Not sure of the premise of your argument. Last time I looked there are hundreds of right wing radio hosts who daily and hourly put forth the Repub talking points across the country, Rush being only one of many,

    Getting the message out from that half of the electoral divide does not seem to be a major problem. Fox News has been an arm of the GOP since its inception. At least half of the print media is conservative.

    Perhaps I misinterpreted your statement, but I doubt the Right Wing is in any danger of losing its touch.

  289. mothballanne,

    you don’t need forms to legally change your name in many states. you just start using your new name consistently. then it’s legally changed.

  290. shaele: there’s some truth in what you say, but it wasn’t just Fox that was in the tank for W. In 2002, Gore was ridiculed by some elements of every cable station, as well as supposed print press; NYT such as MoDo was hateful toward him. In 2004, on CNN Crowley despised Kerry, Bash loved Bush, and Tweety adored Bush on MSNBC.

    Media Matters has an especially good compilation of media bias against Gore, which is the real reason we’ve had Bush for 8 years.

  291. whoops, meant “supposed liberal print press”

  292. shaele, I think I understand where you are coming from, and I have realized this election season that some of the things Republicans have criticized Democrats for are true. For example, the elitism. No one wants to be talked down to. There is definitely a snob elite wing of the Dem party, and guess who they are supporting this time. Another is the race politics. Using race to win elections has come back to bite the party in the you know what. I could go on.
    However, I don’t see the media as liberal or conservative. They are corporate interests. Fox is News Corp and they are supporting McCain, although I feel there is some hedge betting going on.
    MSNBC is GE Microsoft and CNN is TIme Warner. Guess where Obama gets a lot of his money?
    It is disgusting how the corporate money interest has built their own propaganda network. We should all be scared. Just because they may be promoting the candidate you like today, if it would make more financial sense they would change in a heart beat.
    Very scary.

  293. Will Bower has just announced that between 6-10 million dollars have been raised for Hillary’s debt. Full announcemnt due on July 20th.

  294. Movement afoot to contact downticket Dems on ballot this year coming from Will Bower. Details forthcoming.

  295. jmac & parentofed,

    i just finished listening to the “mental recession” segment of this week.

    brazile’s words were troubling. she said “there’s no question that Obama has room to grow with many of the Democrats that are now still somewhat disgruntled.There are still some people within the party who believe that Hillary should be the nominee and just in case, let’s think about throwing her name in at the convention. I don’t know if that will happen.” (emphasis mine bc those things pissed me off)

    first, somewhat disgruntled? i’m somewhat disgruntled when my power goes off bc of the rolling blackouts. i’m somewhat disgruntled when i have to pay $4.50 a gallon for gas. i’m f’n pissed off like you won’t believe that the Dems sold out democracy and tolerated 100 times more misogynistic BS than i’ve EVER seen in a political campaign. and using “disgruntled” to describe how i feel makes me want to punch something.

    second, Hillary’s name should be put in nomination bc it’s in the rules. you know, Donna. the ones that your mama said you should follow. second, it’s how it’s been done since the party had primaries to nominate their candidate for POTUS. third, Clinton fooking won more votes than Obama and it’s horrendously disrespectful to her and her millions of supporters to even think about not putting her name in nomination unless SHE was the one who suggested otherwise. if Obama wants Clinton to release her delegates then he should give her enough incentive to do so. give her some big carrots if you want to be coronated. otherwise, sit down and shut up.

    wtf do you mean “just in case”? just in case what? just in case some people are concerned with the actual rules of the convention? or tradition? or, i dunno, not pissing off even more voters than you already have?

    “let’s think about throwing her name in at the convention.” what does that even mean? who’s the us in let’s? Brazile has no authority to decide whether Clinton’s name is put in nomination. the other panelists certainly don’t either. who is she talking about?

    and what is there to think about? is she suggesting that Clinton’s name should only be put into nomination if it helps Obama? or downticket Dems? or if “they” (whoever they are) decide to be especially magnanimous and gracious to Hillary? what are they supposedly thinking about?

    i don’t know if that will happen?

    the whole thing was outrageous. although, she said it in the right segment. the panelists were discussing how what your friends say can hurt you more than what your enemies say.

  296. “If we give BO is fake presidential seal back and allow him to use it anywhere at anytime, do you think he would just go away?”

    Heck, I don’t mind giving him a crown to wear if he will go away. Here’s an offer …. I will design that crown myself and do a fundraising to make a gold crown which he can wear anywhere, anytime he wants (PUMAs won’t you throw in a dollar?). To top it, I even promise to miss him sometimes. Now sweety, just go away.

  297. BTW, Alegre is super great on No we won’t BlogTalkRadio, tune in!

  298. parentofed, sassysenora, & Pat Johnson:

    Sassy—sorry, I wrote repealed…you’re right, Republicans don’t want it back.

    Media Matters meet Media Research Council. Well, the MRC has been around longer. With Eric Alterman and David Brock onboard for Media Matters, I can imagine they’ve ‘investigated’ the media bias against Gore. Besides, both did a stellar job of cutting Republicans down to size in their own columns. I’m sure that didn’t count nor would it count from the MRC point of view when highlighting bias against Republicans.

    CNN – Bill Press, Al Hunt, Paul Begala, James Carville more than made up for anything Candy Crowley said. The network used to be referred to as the Clinton News Network by conservatives until Obama came along.

    MSNBC – Gosh, you gotta love this channel if you’re a conservative. Let’s see—there was Mike Barnacle, Chris Matthews, Banfield, and many others during the last election cycle that really loathed President Bush.

    As for the NYT, we had William Saffire. Yep, there was him and then the rest of the editorial board and columnists were very anti-Bush.

    Pat—Half of the print media is conservative? Unless I saw stats that backed that up, I would have to respectfully disagree. NYPost and the WSJ (Editorial page) are conservative in nature as is the Washington Times, but otherwise I’m not seeing it.

    This is all perception on my part compared to yours. Since we’re still separated by ideology to a certain point, we’re not going to agree on this point. Which is fine, but at least we’re having the opportunity to discuss it openly and civilized. Which is one of the reasons I’ve been reading this blog for awhile.

    As I said earlier, I have Liberal friends that are pro-Obama. For most of our lives, we have been able to discuss openly many issues for which we don’t agree, but the friendship was based on more than just politics. Now it seems that if you aren’t with Obama—you’re not with America.

    I may not agree with most of you on the issues, but I’m thankful that I know there are Democrats that still believe something is worth fighting for in this country, Obama be damned.

  299. Sassy —

    Above when I commented that what the staffer told us about HRC’s name being on the ballot, I was referring to what we’d been told by various DNC phone-answerers in the last few days of PUMA actions only.

    Dean telegraphed this move to keep her off the ballot over a month ago. I don’t have the quote handy but I did know that the DNC had that little bit of their farce for a convention all planned.

  300. S – I’m in for $10.

  301. shaele,

    i don’t think any of the MSM are liberal. certainly none are progressive. (IMO neither the Dem party nor the Repub party is progressive, just as neither is financially conservative.) i think every MSM outlet is corporate. i agree with mawm about them supporting whoever best serves their interest.

  302. Valhalla,

    i was also talking about phone calls to the DNC, including one this week.

    i would like to see a quote bc i’ve seen MANY rumors that the DNC was not going to have a roll call vote. every time i saw that i called the DNC and was told there would be one. so i’d post something telling ppl to call the DNC themselves bc it was only a rumor and easy to confirm or disconfirm.

    but ppl didn’t do that. instead, they’d point to some article and keep spreading the rumor. occasionally, other ppl would call the DNC and they were also told that there would be a roll call vote.

    from what i’ve seen Brazile has been trying to get Clinton to release her delegates and withdraw her name from the nomination. THAT would keep her name out. but, so far, that’s all i’ve seen except rumors. if you have something else, i’d be interested.

  303. Mawn:

    Elections seem to do one of two things:

    Keep you in the fold.


    Make you regret you were apart of the fold to begin with.

    Your posting about elitist is absolutely spot on.

  304. MABlue: From “This is Weak” with George Stephanopoulos.

    hahaha!!!! MAB, you always make me lol

  305. Pat – you are still not getting Eddy!

  306. Another great post RD, especially this line:

    “Hey, if Clinton is getting under their skin enough to make them offer her VP, she might as well go for the whole thing.”

    I watched the clip someone put up earlier of ‘This Week’s roundtable debate. They mentioned that Hillary keeps coming up, but they wouldn’t even go there. Am I still being optimistic, or is there a slim to nothing chance we might actually get the winning candidate for November?

  307. I hope to God she’s not on the ticket. Or, if the Great One decides to ask, she’ll turn him down.

    Otherwise, I’ll be forced to vote against her. Which I would hate to do. But this is less about HRC now than it is about keeping Obama and his crew of thugs away from the White House.

    Second place is “not” an option.


  308. Hillary’s ass is not large. I saw her at two events in Texas, she is tiny.

  309. PAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    AWESOME call & wonderful comment!!!!

    You give good phone!

  310. SM: Now I know what you went through! I was nervous and had sat there for one hour waiting and when she called out my number I was sipping my soda! Did I sound like an idiot???

  311. BO lies a lot. Here’s another recent example:

    “Obama overstates his role on immigration
    ANALYSIS | But McCain deserves credit for going out on a limb to forge bipartisan deal

    July 12, 2008Recommend (9)

    BY LYNN SWEET Sun-Times Columnist”


  312. Carol: Look out your front window. Is that Blackwater standing on your lawn? I need only give the word.

  313. Pat: You sounded AWESOME. Absolutely great. I noticed that PUMAs are super articulate and well versed on the issues.

  314. SM: Did I sound like Roz?

  315. SM: fuzzy and regency were on the blogroll over there.

  316. sassysenora – what struck me when I listened to Brazile make her statement was that none of the other commentators asked why Hillary’s name shouldn’t automatically be on the ballot – it should be a given. Why didn’t Cokie say – why’s O afraid of a name on a ballot?

  317. I do NOT want to see Hillary as VP. She is now a powerful senator. And, VP would be demeaning, I think.

    My 96yo Mom-in-law voted for Hillary in the primary and she wants to stick around to see Hillary elected! (She called and told me to tell all my friends to write in Hillary’s name. I guess she had just found out you could do that. It was cute.)

    Another comment re: one made above: Yes! I cannot stand the way O puts his hands on Hillary! He’s not her date! She is a colleague, and a senior one to him, at that. He would not do that if she were a man! I can’t even stand the way he slaps men on the back. It shows a lack of respect. That is something an older or more powerful person does to a younger or less powerful person. (It actually was what really turned me off to Bush Jr. the first time I ever saw him on TV and he was doing it!)

    Even when he seems he’s trying, Barky just does not get it.

  318. Jmac, I was surprised that nothing was said, although I would never expect Cokie to stick her neck out for Hillary. I just thought it odd that nobody said anything about people like us, about people abandoning the party, or PUMA, or all the rumors we have been hearing regarding her not being in nomination on the first ballot. It was odd how they avoided the real story.

  319. Pat: Roz….OMG, this is from a TV show and now my mind is drawing a blank. Roz???

  320. If you ignore the problem hopefully it will go away.

  321. SM: Frasier.

  322. Fran, be careful. Some states don’t allow write-in votes (mine doesn’t) and some will take the write in and just add it to the Democratic nominee. Best to check on your state’s rules. There was a site that told all this info. If I bookmarked it, I will post it here.

  323. Pat – don’t worry – Eddy came back and told them to leave.

    You sounded great. Besides, at this time it is not good to exterminate a Hillary friend!

  324. Carol: Hands off! You cannot keep him chained in the basement forever. He appreciates a good meal and those Cheerios you keep tossing down there aren’t doing the trick.

  325. Just got in from a cook-out and find a great article from RD and many comments from all you wonderful people here. Since we were talking about Hillary as VP earlier this morning, I’m even more discouraged about it. Litterally makes my stomach turn as well. I’m here to say, it will hurt my heart but I will never vote for O even if our Hillary is on the ticket as VP! I’m afraid it will seal the deal for him if she is, but he will never see my vote!!

    OK, just had to say it! Not as good as Janis, Queen of Rants, but feel very strongly.

    And, I’ve also made a decision to not vote downticket Dems unless I know for a fact they are staunch Hillary supporters. Still making inquiries in GA. Had a strange e-mail exchange with someone running for county commissioner here who refused to tell me, saying it was her “right” not to reveal who she was supporting. Don’t know whether to think she is a Hillary supporter and has received threats or if she’s just a “politician.” Everything is so screwed up!

    Thank you all for being here. Otherwise, I’d lose it completely!

  326. I will come and commandeer Ed Rendell if need be. Leave him alone. He needs his rest.

  327. regency: joaniebone suggested we he rotate between Carol, herself and me. I am not playing “Big Love”.

  328. Pat: FRAISER!!! I knew it was from a TV show! You kinda do!

    DID YOU HEAR the last caller, the woman from Mississippi, she made me tear up.

  329. SM: No I didn’t. I lost the connection and since it was so close to 10 I did not go back. She was that good?

  330. Doctorate, THANK YOU for the article – we know Obama is a flip-flopper to Comprehensive Immigration Reform.

  331. The (now defunct) Fairness Doctrine as it existed is a double-edged sword, which wouldn’t help as much today in putting forth alternative viewpoints as we might hope. It only deals with broadcast radio and network TV, not the cable stations. Thus, while it would affect NBC, it would not affect MSNBC, for example, and could actually impeded the conservative radio stations some of us now turn to for alternative viewpoints.

    I think the MSM needs to be broken up again altogether. We need to look at anti-trust regulations and/or do something about all the consolidation and corporate ownership. Therein lies so much of the problem today regarding the bias we are fed.

    shaele, on July 13th, 2008 at 7:40 pm Said:

  332. meileen – Thanks. Yes, I know about it. Every state is different. I just thought it was cute that my 96yo Mom in law was all excited about the possiblity. She did not know it’s not a easy as it sounds.

  333. Fran; Your mother law is cute!

  334. doctorate,

    thanks for the link.

    the fairness doctrine COULD cover cable. that falls within the Commerce Clause. since it would have to be newly drafted, etc. it would make more sense for it to cover cable as well as broadcast.

    jmac and meileen – i assumed Cokie (or others but esp Cokie since that’s her area) didn’t say anything bc Donna’s comment itself was already pretty OT. (another reason it was troubling. it was thrown in out of the blue. why?)

    meileen, did you ever see my comment about the DNC convention rules the other day?

  335. To old91A10, on July 13-08 at 5:10 p.m.,
    re: my comment on 7-13-08 at 4:10 p.m.

    Could we set up the FUND as a PAC? Imagine, if 2.5 million of us actually contributed $10 dollars each, in TWO MONTHS we would have $50,000,000 dollars available to start up a new Party (IF Senator Clinton is not nominated). We would NOT approach Senator Clinton until we can offer solid financial support. She would have to think about it. I do not think she will hurry, nor will we pressure her, into making rush decisions of any kind after the convention. If she is not the nominee, she will go back to doing her Senate work and take the time she needs to plan her political future. Hopefully that plan will include us. Please Senator Clinton, DO NOT take the VP spot.

    Everybody knows by now that many of us PUMAs are talking about starting a new party that will count every vote and will uphold the Constitution. The thing I don’t know is how do you set up a PAC, or how to legally start up a new party. Our lawyer PUMAs could advise, give suggestions.

    I am already maxed out on contributions for the primary and am trying to help with her senate fund and making small donations to other candidates (see Heidi Li’s site). I also know there are important ongoing projects at this time, working towards achieving victory for Hillary in Denver; and PUMAs are helping out.

    WHAT I HAVE SEEN, however, by reading political news, posts and commentaries in the last few months is that what scares and nearly paralyzes, even a good politician, into submission, is the threat by the Democratic party, or by BO, of pulling the financial help, the funding for reelection away from them. We have seen plenty of this during this primary (superdelegates?). A most qualified candidate’s campaign should not be derailed because of lack of proper funding.

    My fear is, if we contribute to a fund into the Democratic Party,
    guess who will wrestle control of it for the benefit of his own
    manipulations? Give you a hint, his name initials are B.O.
    So, I will not donate to the Democratic Party.

    We must find ways to build up grassroots, to campaign, without depending too much on the Main Stream Media. They
    BURN through our hard earned contribution dollars (running advertisements), and then have the nerve to insult our most qualified candidate, Hillary Clinton, and give the most unqualified one a free ride! Our PUMAs with knowledge in media, advertising and marketing, and our wonderful bloggers, need to guide us on this matter.

    This is already getting long winded, so I’ll finish.
    IF Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton wins the nomination in Denver, I’ll donate for the General Election. IF NOT,
    I’ll have my first $10 dollars ready to contribute online on September 1st.2008, for the foundation of the INDEPENDENT/PROGRESSIVE Party.

    A PUMA

  336. Pat – sorry – watching Ms. Universe – us Latin Americans consider it holier than baseball/soccer.

    The last caller from Mississippi – WOW. She was an African American woman who is a civil rights activist who said she participated in the marches back in the 60s, that she was outraged, loathed Obama for setting race relations back, how Hillary had 65% of the AA vote in SC so they pulled the dirtiest trick – calling the race card. She said so much – that Sheri Tag & Will Bower invited her to be a guest of the show. WOW.

  337. Amazonia,

    if Obama is the Dem nominee, i’d like to see a progressive party as well. however, i’m not sure how much funding it would get, though. not all Clinton supporters are progressives and many would not want to fund a PAC when it was not clear what would happen to the $$$ if Clinton did not run.

    if Clinton would agree to run, she’d only need to poll 10% of the votes to get on at least one early debate.

    From yahoo news:

    A striking six percent of Americans who are likely to vote this fall back an alternative candidate: Independent Ralph Nader. Another three percent back Libertarian Bob Barr.

    Those are some of the highest percentages in years for independent or-third-party candidates. And they matter, especially Nader’s six percent.

    Google and YouTube are organizing a unique presidential forum in New Orleans for September 18. It is likely to be the first debate (or debate-like “event”) after the major-party nominating conventions are finished.

    A candidate polling at 10 percent in national polls — just four points ahead of where Nader is now at — earns a place in the forum.

    As Nader’s campaign says: “If we get on the Google sponsored debates, we’re convinced Nader/Gonzalez will move toward 20 percent.

    “At twenty percent, people see a three way race.”

    “When people see a three way race, everything is possible.”

    “And we believe that in this momentous election year, everything is possible.”

    i think having that early debate would give her a good shot at winning the election.

  338. doctorate,

    it looks like that link is to fund PUMApac. that’s not to fund a political party like Amazonia was proposing. am i missing something?

  339. SM:: Fuzzy just said the same thing on the upstairs thread.

  340. Max out donor should donate to HillPac. Hillary said she will use the fund to help congress that are loyal to her.


    If DNC & BO can’t raise money while Hillary can, those congress will flock to her and back her.

  341. Pat: It’s Russia, Dominican Republic, Venezuela, Mexico and Columbia.

    I felt bad for Miss USA, beautiful & smart too, she was a top finalist but she fell during a walk.

  342. SM: Those stilettos are killers. I owned a pair once and my ankles looked like wishbones.

  343. sassysenora,

    The early talk in several organizations I am watching has been that if HRC doesn’t end up the Democratic nominee it may be time for a new party. I feel that any of these organizations under the justsaynodeal coalition could eventually turn into a new party if it comes to that. Things are evolving as events play out. PUMApac was set up as a 527 fairly quickly after Hillary suspended. Right now, their intent is to take back the Democratic party. It seems to me that that is a wise first line of action because there is a powerful infrastructure there that would take years and huge amounts of money to recreate. And it is rightfully ours. Nevertheless, depending on what happens in August and then November, the pac is a wise place to invest money based on their platform and how they plan on using the money. There are ways in which taking back the Democratic party could actually result in a new party. Let’s say, for example, we throw out many of the incumbents and show how serious we are about being heard and listened to? People are taking note of us now. This is actually a revolution in the making due to the fact we can all communicate regardless of the MSM. We have also shown we can raise a lot of money. We are in effect creating a new party now regardless; and there are many ways in which that can continue to happen.

    I personally will not contribute to the DNC until most of the current politburo is out of there, however.

  344. There’s a psychic who has been predicting for months…


    Check out her blog and follow her predictions from last year. It’s interesting if nothing else.

  345. 1. How are we doing in helping Senator Clinton retire our
    primary campaign debt?

    2. Lets ask the Denver Group to run a full page add:
    A LARGE CONVENTION BALLOT WITH HILLARY’S NAME IN BOLD LETTERS, IN THE FIRST CHOICE LINE. Followed by a concise, powerful message, or by copies of hundreds of our signatures in small font.

    3. Let’s contribute $5.00 to the Denver Group.


    A PUMA

  346. sting,

    can you link

  347. doctorate,

    some of them might turn into a new party. PUMApac would be one of the last ones that i would guess that would do that. some, e.g., newwomansparty and writeinhillary, have said they want to start a third party if Hilllary does not win the nomination. that’s why i was questioning why you’d use PUMApac.

    you say: the pac (PUMApac? or who?) is a wise place to invest money based on their platform and how they plan on using the money

    what is their platform?

    you say: Let’s say, for example, we throw out many of the incumbents and show how serious we are about being heard and listened to? People are taking note of us now.

    is PUMApac doing that? how?

  348. when i asked if PUMApac was doing that, i meant working to throw out incumbents, not trying to get ppl to listen to us.

  349. not sting

    Sure. Sorry about that.

  350. brief scan — I missed much — bookmark and read a.m.

  351. Hello wordpress owner of blogs I read more of Brazil, and wonders if you want to exchange links of partnership?
    my blog has 26 thousand hits a day.

    I am awaiting a reply.

    thanks and hugs!

  352. take it easy, ed. technically, Bill Gates is “unemployed/retired”, too.

  353. […] Hillary for VP? Bwahahahahahhhh! (by riverdaughter at The Confluence) Here’s the story, PUMAs: “Barack Obama doesn’t rule out Clinton for VP”… [T]he money’s not coming in, the poll numbers are starting to look alarming, FISA didn’t go so well and there’s too much time left before the convention.  We can’t put Hillary on the ballot.  If we do that, she might just pull it out.  By late August, Obama could be in real trouble.  How do we get everyone on board and yet still keep firm control of the party and Obama? By George!  Let’s float the idea that we’re considering making her VP!  It’s brilliant!  Some of the low info holdouts might go for that.  It just might be enough to swing the sucker for BO.  We don’t have to actually follow through.  We’ll just leave the possibility hanging out there.  Once it gains enough traction, people will say it’s the best consolation prize she’s likely to get and they’ll accept it… […]

  354. Alegre (of Alegre’s Corner, and on No We Won’t radio last night) really wants Hillary Clinton and will accept her as VP — but I won’t. I said so at her website and I stand by it; I can’t abide the better qualified woman being put behind a lesser male individual who hasn’t done nearly as much for the country. That just plays into gender stereotyping and I do not go along with that.

    Now, I’m with Riverdaughter on this — this is a ploy. Obama wants our money. And he’ll do or say anything to get it.

    I will not give him anything.

    For this former Democrat-turned-Independent (Democrat in Exile due to the Rules and Bylaws committee meeting of May 31, 2008), I will accept nothing less than Hillary Clinton for President. Harold Ford, Jr., is completely acceptable to me as VP. So is Evan Bayh, so is Elizabeth Edwards, so is John Edwards (though I like Eliz. Edwards far better). She won the primary season because she won the popular vote, won the big states, won the swing states. And she has the superior general election coalition and will do what she says she’ll do — unlike Obama.


  355. I don’t think Hillary is going to take VP I think Obama is just trying to pressure Hillary into taking it but I do not think she will. I also like Shelia Jackson Lee as Hillary’s vice president. I know female/female but that’s who I want as Hillary’s vp. I don’t see Obama in any house except the big house learning his new name I mean number lol

  356. He’s going to ask Sebelius to be his running mate.

    “My land is bare of chattering folk,
    the clouds are low along the ridges.
    And sweet’s the air with curling smoke
    from all my burning bridges.”
    — Dorothy Parker

  357. […] 15, 2008 in My PowerTags: convention, democrat, hillary, vice president Check out this blog by riverdaughter. No Comments Leave a Commenttrackback addressThere was an error with your […]

  358. […] Hillary for VP? Bwahahahahahhhh! (by riverdaughter at The Confluence) Here’s the story, PUMAs: “Barack Obama doesn’t rule out Clinton for VP”… [T]he money’s not coming in, the poll numbers are starting to look alarming, FISA didn’t go so well and there’s too much time left before the convention.  We can’t put Hillary on the ballot.  If we do that, she might just pull it out.  By late August, Obama could be in real trouble.  How do we get everyone on board and yet still keep firm control of the party and Obama? By George!  Let’s float the idea that we’re considering making her VP!  It’s brilliant!  Some of the low info holdouts might go for that.  It just might be enough to swing the sucker for BO.  We don’t have to actually follow through.  We’ll just leave the possibility hanging out there.  Once it gains enough traction, people will say it’s the best consolation prize she’s likely to get and they’ll accept it… […]

  359. “Maybe some seniors my Mom’s age would settle for second place, but none of the PUMAs *I* know would.” Shame on you, Riverdaughter. Maybe your Mom would. Maybe some PUMAs your Mother’s age would. AND maybe some of your age-group would. What has that got to do with anything?

  360. “For those who wish to stay together in a long term commitment to the ideals and principles that Hillary Clinton has spent a lifetime promoting, http://Together4Us.com offers access for activists, funders, students, policy-makers and ordinary people to come together in support of each other and their goals for America. Please come to our website and join, use the code below to put our linked logo on your website and distribute our message and this code to all your network. Spread the word. We will be happy to put up a reciprocal link, your own co-branded web page on our site, or your own blog. Thanks so much, Gretchen Glasscock, Together4Us”

  361. My point is this: Accepting the VP slot from Barack Obama would be a step down for Hillary Clinton. She’s obviously the better-qualified candidate for president. If she became vice-president in an Obama Administration she would be in that miserable situation for the next four years of being smarter, more knowledeable, more experienced, etc. than the person she would have to report to. She’s better off as a US Senator because she’s free to use all of her considerable ability.

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