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Dear Donna, if you don’t have time to do it right…

When will you have time to DO IT OVER?

I know you answer email personally, Donna, but for some reason, you did not reply to my invitation to take questions at The Confluence.  No matter, we know the answers to the questions we would have asked because you stupidly told them to the Wall Street Journal and the NYTimes yesterday.  The pre-Convention Obama Haka sounds like this:

The problem is “there’s a strong feeling” that Sen. Clinton’s delegates need the chance to vote for her, Mr. Devine said. Many are still angry with a party decision that they feel deprived her of delegates from Michigan and Florida. “You don’t want a situation where anybody feels they’ve been cheated,” he said.

A second option would be for Sen. Clinton to be nominated, complete with laudatory speeches and happy floor demonstrations. By prearrangement, Sen. Clinton then would take her name out of consideration and endorse Sen. Obama’s nomination.

“There’s nothing symbolically wrong to putting her name in,” followed by a scripted withdrawal, said Ms. Brazile. But the spectacle of a rapturous welcome for Sen. Clinton would be irresistible to television and could embarrass Sen. Obama.

Oh, please.  Nothing could be more embarrassing for Senator Obama than to have his buddies on the Rules and Bylaws committee rig the vote for him so he could slither that last centimeter over the finish line.  How could it be more humiliating than to find that the first African-American to be nominated has to have the caucuses stacked in his favor, the critical mass of two major states withheld from the tally of his opponent and the entire US News media out for blood for Hillary in order to just barely squeak by?  Did I mention all of the superdelegates that had to be threatened with primary challenges, the other superdelegates that were bought off, the power of DFA used as your personal campaign organization outside of the official OBAMA organization and nearly every African-American in the US voting for you?  And with all of that plus the institutional power of the Democratic establishment lining up behind Obama so they can pull his strings after he is in office, he only just *barely* managed to buy his way into the winner’s circle.  Barely.  Because we’re not talking about his qualifications or experience, which is virtually non-existent. I can’t think of anything more embarrassing than having been carried to the nomination on the back of droogs who want to use you.  For sure, no one will ever look at the nomination of Barack Obama and have anyone say he won on his merits.  Doesn’t get any more embarrassing than that.

But I find this passage the funniest:

The Obama campaign said Monday that the Illinois senator would accept the nomination at the 76,000-seat stadium where the Denver Broncos football team plays so that thousands of nondelegates could attend. But the campaign hasn’t settled other key questions about the convention, including whether Sen. Clinton’s name will be put into nomination, said Obama spokesman Bill Burton.

Sen. Clinton’s campaign office didn’t answer emails seeking comment.  Under party rules, Sen. Clinton’s huge delegate count gives her the right to put her name into nomination. “But do you do it?” asked Ms. Brazile.  “Politically, does it heighten tensions?”

LOLOLOLOL!  {{Catching breath, wiping eyes, clearing throat}}

Donna, Donna, Donna, get your fingers out of your ears and stop singing “la-la-la”.  You cannot force the Democrats to accept this man, I don’t care if you ARE trying to use his candidacy to score points for African-Americans.  This election year wasn’t supposed to be an opportunity to have a teachable moment about race.  This was an election year to wrest control from the Republicans and here you are, making a pact with Nancy “Impeachment-is-off-the-table” Pelosi to hand control over the executive branch over to Congress but, by golly, you’ll have an African-American in the WH.  One who is not prepared, who has no coalitions who he can call on outside the ones who were handed to him and who will be facing a war, a failing economy, health care issues and global warming.  If he doesn’t end up like the failed and equally unprepared Deval Patrick, we will be lucky.  You would have been better off recommending him for VP and letting him learn on the job behind a much more experienced nominee.  Instead, you may set back progress by decades.

But the thing I want to point out to you, Donna, you dumb@$$, is that a floor fight, complete with “heightened political tensions” could be the best thing that happens to your candidate.  Let him present his case to the superdelegates.  Let them hear from Clinton as well.  Let the best PERSON win.  If it’s Barack Obama, if he suddenly displays the leadership abilities you have said he posesses (and which we have yet to see), then the party will unite behind him and we will go forward together, not altogether happy about it, but much more reconciled than we are now.  But to preclude such an event, to truncate the process is to leave those bad feelings intact and will almost guarantee that the party will continued to be fractured.

Sure there is a risk.  The risk is that the better candidate will be Hillary Clinton and that superdelegates will flock to her en masse, leaving Obama out in the cold.  There is a risk that they will put her on the top of the ticket and force Obama to take the VP spot.  Ohhh!  Horrors!  It’s *almost* the perfect unity ticket, one that just about everyone will understand and agree with, one that will make the Democrats unbeatable in the fall.  What could be worse for Nancy, Howard and Donna?  It would spell the end of their evil triumvirate.  There would be much rejoicing! Invesco Field would be the scene of celebration and a wild bacchanalia.  Wine would flow, frenzied dancing and orgies would ensue!  The media would committ hari-kari!

So, why are you being such a f$^*ing killjoy?

BTW, I will be a guest of Sheri Tag’s on NO WE WON’T PUMA RADIO on blogtalkradio tonight at 7pm EST.  Hope to hear from you!

The Confluence is a satisfied member of the Just Say No Deal coalition.

364 Responses

  1. How do you get people to not feel that they’ve been cheated? Hey, here’s an idea:


    I know, I know, I just can’t get so technical and complex with politics.

  2. Everyone – please, help pay down her debt!

    I will never be satisfied that this piece of “crap” was allowed to pretend he is something special enough to hold the office of the greatest responsibility in this universe or any other!

    Hillary must win, and he should go back and explain his financial dealings with all of his “whatevers”.

    PUMA$ Who Donate Rock!

  3. So how much does Hillary still owe at this point? It still can’t be $23 million right?

    An update would probably help at this point. Move people off the fence if they saw the number go down.

  4. Debbie – I don’t need to be “wooed”. Being r*ped is not part of my future agenda!

    PUMA$ Who Donate Rock!

  5. I agree with Linda – I wanna know how much she needs. I can definitely pony up a little more, even though I am unemployed at the moment.

    And once again – great post, RD! The only sane response to the morons who are currently ruining the Democratic Party is to laugh, IMHO.

  6. Carol, I wouldn’t call him a ‘piece of crap’ but he has certainly damaged his reputation by accepting the nomination under these circumstances. AND he bears the responsibility of the entire AfricanAmerican population on his shoulders. If he turns out to be a failed president due to his unreadiness, the stupid racists will feel vindicated,

  7. Linda needs $5 Million dollars.

  8. Ooops. Hillary needs $5 Million.

  9. Linda: She owes about $12 million to herself which she chose to use as a investment, not to be paid off. Up until last weekend, that left about $10-11 million of which we knocked off approximately $4-6 million. SO, one more independence weekend and she should be home free.

  10. Wonderful post, RD – and to Debbie from this “typical Democratic supporter” who will not vote for Obama – get a clue, Barack Obama is at fault for the sexism and misogyny seen during his campaign – and please, do something about that outfit.

  11. Wear a yellow rose to honor our right to vote as women, (which we have had for less than 100 years -Women’s right to vote amended to the U.S. Constitution 1920) and in protest of any and all party officials who maintain, we don’t matter!

  12. Delphyne – Debbie W-S is in serious need of a “What Not To Wear” makeover.

    And…she is from Florida. For shame. How could she support the man who threw Florida under the bus? It could have been blue this year – HRC had a real shot at taking it away from McCain.

    Oh well, it ain’t over till the lady in the pantsuit sings, right?

  13. PUMAs and friends brought down the primary debt by about 4 or 5m over the 4th July weekend, from info on HeidiLi’s blog and the Denver Group (as I recall). Congrats all around to us!

    Hillary did have about 20-23m outstanding. 10-12m of that was a personal loan she made her campaign; she’s said that is not part of what needs replaying as she considers that an investment to America. So that left 10-12m left — after last weekend that’s now only 5-8m left.

    Nahhh, the MSM isn’t covering it.

    Anybody with more recent figures/info, please add comments.


  14. RD,
    Was it Donna that also said that they would give Hillary the opportunity to “ingratiate” herself to Obama’s campaign? I turned into a raving madwoman over that line.

    I’m “underemployed” right now, but I too am up for another donation.

    Another plug: PUMAs in Seattle contact:

  15. recencyg and RD, thanks. PUMAs are fast.

  16. Hey Joanie!

  17. Someone needs to give Debbie W-S a crash course in how not to piss off the feminists.

  18. PUMAinSeattle,

    Hey back! Beautiful day here!

  19. ingratiate is such a slimy verb, isn’t it?

  20. As would be expected given the source.

    Yes, lovely day here. Gonna be too hot for this native-born Puget Sounder.

  21. has insult written all over it.

  22. She’s not a killjoy — the proper word, if I recall correctly, is “buzzkill.”

    Like, she’s like such a total buzzkill. If I judge the slang that Kids Today Are Using correctly.

  23. I know this is OT, but did anybody notice the “hand made” signs in that video? In the bleachers, no less, which were filled by staffers….kind of contradicts my video where the staffer states that it wasn’t the fact that one of our PUMA’s had an anti-Obama sign, it was that ALL hand made signs were not allowed. I guess that makes them liars….and anti free speech…..

  24. Janis,

    we say she’s a downer, not a buzzkill. That word is very 90s.

  25. The ‘ingratiate’ comment pissed me off too. Short of offering herself for human sacrifice at the convention, I’m not sure what more they expect her to do.

    I’m native too, so yeah, anything over 75 is too hot for me. I’ll have to go spend time in the beer isle at QFC pretty soon.

  26. Oh my, here’s the DNC between a rock and a hard place. Damned if they put her name in, because that would show the unity/schmoonity b.s. And then double-damned if they don’t because it will just pys off Clinton Dems ever more than they are all ready pysed off.

    Good work DNC and RBC. What a bunch of nitwits you folks turned out to be. Corrupt was enough for you, ya hada go and be dumb too.

  27. I read that Bill Clinton has told Obama to kiss his butt, or BC won’t be doing a single thing for the presumptuous nominee. That’s the way I feel, and frankly, I don’t think anything can get me to vote for Obama. Just nagahapin. He is not a Democrat just because he slaps that “D” label on his forehead.

    Obama is the one who needs to ingratiate himself, not Hillary. She won the popular vote. The Obama “movement” is a lot smaller than they think it is, and only now are the Party “Leaders” starting to realize it.

    Is it too late? I hope not. PUMA!

    And thanks for the $$$ information. If we are having another fundraiser, I’ll contribute then – if not, I’ll contribute separately. 🙂

  28. Gary can you send up a message to RD about the cover charge idea?

    I really want to get one more fundraising push off the ground for Hillary and we don’t have much time. We have six days. I think it can be done.

    For those maxed out for the primary, I’ll ask that they either divert that money to her 2012 political campaign or divert it to the Denver Group.

    I would be really grateful if everyone would spread it out to their blog haunts. I want this to be the success that Independence Day weekend was.

  29. RD:

    Do you have a problem understanding the concept of “vacation?”

    You’re supposed to be having fun and recharging your batteries, free from all your everyday worries and cares.

    Do we have to give your BFF some duct tape to keep you away from a keyboard? There are lots people stuck in the daily grind who would love to take your vacation for you, if you’re not gonna use it.

    Now go have fun or else!

  30. myiq: 😦
    It’s chilly and cloudy outside.

  31. I just tried to give a modest donation to the Denver group and their Paypal link was acting weird and so is their ActBlue. I have a Mac w/Safari. Anyone else have that problem? I’ll try in Firefox.

  32. jjmtacoma — the frozen food/treats aisle is a nice place on days like this, too!

  33. Donna Brazile reminds me of one of those bitter, resentful people you sometimes have the misfortune to work with or for.

    The kind of person who, if you work for her, will try (and probably succeed) to make your life miserable, or if she is a co-worker she will snitch, spread lies, and do anything she can to try to get you in trouble.

  34. PUMAinSeattle,

    I haven’t tried yet (my money’s Hillary’s for the time being) but I know a lot of people have had a hard time of it. If that doesn’t work your best bet is to just mail it via the Unity Pony Express.

  35. Where are you guys, Siberia? It’s so hot here in Central California people are spontaneously combusting.

  36. RD, your posts are always awesome, but I agree with myiq. There are only a few days left before it’s back to the grind for you. Enjoy yourself while you can.

  37. John Edwars is a lying tub of hair lube.

    He has just said that he would accept VP if offered. After saying that he wouldn’t.

    And now he has $40 million UHC initiative. UHC was Hillary’s before it belonged to anybody.

    But why am I surprised, this is the frakker who said he wouldn’t endorse and then did 3 days after the fact.

  38. myiq – It’s disgustingly hot and humid in NYC too. It would be great to be on the beach on a day like this…

  39. How much of the remaining debt is to Mark Penn??
    Maybe as I believe Heidi Li suggested we could get him to consider a “lower” settlement??
    Just a Thought!!
    I’m DEFINATELY in for another round or more of donation drives.
    **As far as Debbie W-S she’s SO OUT OF TOUCH !!!
    Most of the Hillsters that are “holding back” are in fact
    people who are “loyal democratic voters”, that’s the problem for him/them!!
    I personally will be voting in my 8th presidential election & I’ve NEVER VOTED REPUBLICAN BEFORE
    this year!! As far as local & state my votes have been mixed.

  40. Hillbuzz has a snarky thread that says Obama will play the Penguin in the next Batman movie.

    Hillbuzz must not be a fan of the caped crusader, cuz if he/she was they would know Obama is perfect for the part of Harvey Dent, aka “Two Face”

  41. Somebody keep an ear out for the FISA vote.

  42. PUMA in Seattle:
    they don’t have the open cases in the frozen treats isle.

    Can Mark Penn settle for less? I thought there were rules about how the vendors could settle – having to do with the donation limits or something.

  43. They seem to be voting on FISA now.

  44. regencyg:

    I am trying to not let my opinion of Obama prejudice my judgment of other politicians.

    There are good Democrats out there that have to worry about their careers and staying on good terms with the party leadership.

    As long as they behave in a reasonably ethical manner, I will forgive them.

    Donna and Howard, when pigs fly.

  45. I’m not even gonna watch the FISA vote. Like the Democratic nomination, the fix is in.

  46. regency – All the amendments to strip out immunity are being voted down. (HRC and Obama are voting the “right” way, which is FOR all the amendments.) The cloture vote is the important one. If cloture is invoked, then there can be no filibuster.

    We will see how Obama and HRC vote on cloture.

    I think we’re just doomed on FISA though. Great, great job, Congresscritters.

  47. I believe this is the vote on the bill.

    His Coolness just voted “Aye.”

    Durbin “No.”

  48. FISA vote — I’m not holding my breath about what those invertebrate Dems will do.

  49. oops, no, sorry, “procedural vote.”

  50. Most Dems are all voting No on whatever it is.

  51. Donna Brazille has little for party unity yet she has the nerve to call us racists and haters. What is she doing for Democracy by asking if Hillary’s name on the ballot will heighten tensions? What about if her name is not on the ballot? What’s up with that Wasserman woman? OH yeah, I’ll vote for Obama if he shows me some love and how dare she say that the sexism wasn’t his fault? Hell, he was part of the problem with he “periodically when she feels a little down the claws come out” comment but I loved it when Forrester said “I just don’t like him” Awesome.

  52. Ok, I can take a hint.. I’m going away now, I know when I’m not wanted, {{sniff}}

  53. Amen Riverdaughter!

    Had Obama shown leadership skills, show that he’s strong Democrat (which he isn’t, he’s a DINO), and NOT have enablers (aka cheaters) push him across the finish line and win fair & square, I’d be a yellow dog and not a PUMAcrat.

    Alas, the days of the yellow dog have died.

  54. RD,

    I want you. Aren’t you a red head? If so, I definitely want you.


  55. RD:

    We love you, now get the hell out of here and do something fun.

  56. LH, I didn’t recognize you with your new moniker!

  57. RD- get thee to a spa or something! lovely lunch? has the weather sucked the WHOLE time?

  58. I betting Obama will skip the vote.

    If he votes yes, he will take a huge hit from his fan club. If he votes no, he will piss off the people who appointed him the nominee.

  59. God is a comedian, so I’m sure RD will see some truly beautiful weather the day she has to return home.

  60. FISA update?

  61. MYIQ: I just left you a kudos & question on your FISA post, will you post an update as to who voted yes/no? I’m actually “working” right now and I’d love to yhear your take on it!

  62. The language usage between Debbie W-S and that report was oozing sexism — wooing in, show some love… Disgusting. She also said we are not typical democrats. How mistaken she is!

  63. what’s going on???? the suspense is killing me (at work here too and can’t watch the vote)

  64. FISA? Anyone taking bets on His Waffleness’s further actions?

    OK, I’m snail-mailing my Denver Group donation. Not working for me on Paypal or Firefox; takes forever and PP keeps saying: “enter an amount greater than zero” when I put in “20.08” !

  65. Joanie, I was PUMAinSeattle on another WordPress blog and that got automatically filled in here some time back. I didn’t notice it for a while……
    D*mn auto-fill feature


  67. SM – Wo-ho-hord!

    Had Obama shown leadership skills, show that he’s strong Democrat (which he isn’t, he’s a DINO), and NOT have enablers (aka cheaters) push him across the finish line and win fair & square, I’d be a yellow dog and not a PUMAcrat.

    Alas, the days of the yellow dog have died.

    Obama Shot Old Yeller!

  68. Obama Yes.

    Clinton No.

    Dems generally, including Obama’s patrons, No.

  69. madamab:

    As Phoebe Buffet would tell you, “Old Yeller” is a doggie snuff film.

  70. Andre in Massachusetts, on July 9th, 2008 at 2:53 pm Said:

    Friday. Tell everyone.

  71. Plural,

    Is this the part where I point and laugh?

  72. madamab, LOL! Maybe that could be your next play, like a “Lassie is dead” motif. (I know, I’m morbid.)

  73. When they voted for cloture before the holiday it was already a done deal.

  74. Obama Yes.

    Clinton No.

    Dems generally, including Obama’s patrons, No.

    What does that mean?

  75. Myiq – LOL!

    SM – I agree, that could be the germ of a future post, but I don’t know about a play about killing a dog. Even I have my limits. 😉

    Maybe a song, though…

  76. he voted yes on cloture, effectively killing a filibuster????

  77. gary – People like Harry Reid and John Kerry are voting no. (Of course HRC voted no. Woo-hoo!) People like Dianne Feinstein and Inouye of Hawaii are voting Aye, along with the *&*!&$* Republicans.

  78. I do hope they won’t turn this into an example of his willingness to buck the party line for his “ideals.”

  79. From Gary,”he voted yes on cloture, effectively killing a filibuster????”

    Is this true? No TV here.

  80. i’m watching on my computer at work, but no sound…69-28–but what was the vote on?

  81. Does anyone know how he voted????

  82. GCH: That was the FISA Bill. It passed, but HRC voted no. BO, Feinstein, and somebody from HI I think, voted yay. As far as Dems I mean. Most Dems said Nay.

  83. I just came back in from shopping and cannot find out how he voted. Anyone have any updates?

  84. gary- that was the bill. say goodbye to the constitution… the presumptuous nominee fo the democratic party just voted in favor of an eichmann defense for telecoms, who are now immune from doing illegal things as long as they’re following illegal government orders.

    the junior senator from new york? she stood up for the constitution and voted no.

  85. I only have one story (joke) about shooting a dog.

    Years back, before I went to college and found my calling, I worked as a pest control techinician. My fist day on the job we got a call from a woman who said there was a gorilla in her tree and she wanted us to get rid of it. (Don’t ask me how he got up there, I don’t know)

    So the boss told me to come with him to handle it. On the way there, he stopped by his house to pick up his dog, a shotgun, a long pole and some oversized shackles.

    When we arrived, sure neough, there was a gorilla in the ladies’ tree. He told me he was going to climb up there and knock the gorilla out of the tree with the pole. He said his dog was specially trained and would run over and bite the gorilla by the “huevos” which would give him time to climb down and put the shackles on the ape.
    He handed me the shotgun and started climbing. “What am I supposed to do with this?” I asked, holding up the shotgun.
    “If by chance the gorilla knocks me out of the tree” he said, “Shoot the dog!”

  86. the roll call will be posted here as soon as it’s compiled – within an hour.


  87. Why do you keep naming mostly women in this scenario? Did you forget the other sellouts…Pat Leahy, Ted Kennedy, John Kerry, John Edwards, Al Gore, Bill Richardson, Harry Reid, should I keep going??

  88. Guys – Obama voted “yes” on the bill itself. He also voted “yes” on cloture.

    HRC voted “no” on cloture and “no” on the bill.

  89. Gore, Edwards and Richardson aren’t in the Senate.

    DiFi is my Senator, and except for women’s issues she’s a DINO.

  90. Anne,

    We’re not done with them yet. We’re angry at the women because they ARE women. We’re not saying they had to vote for her but common decency and maybe even a perfunctory notion of solidarity should have made them raise hell just once. They couldn’t ever be botherd. They were worse to Hillary than the men were some day.

    The men are starting to get their comeuppance. We just left that to a bitch named Karma.

  91. Carol: I am in for the next round of donations. Just saved myself a few dollars at the grocery store with coupons, etc. and will use that to help pay down the debt. Our efforts are paying off. It is the very least we can do for someone who did so much for us. She is wonderful!

  92. madamab: So what you are saying is he voted with the GOP?

  93. myiq2xu: Your post today was terriffic! Your joke, old.

  94. so he voted yes on cloture, and on the bill, and Hillary voted no on both. well, well, well….Kos and Marshall, and all the other boyz can kiss my ASS….

  95. I know a million jokes. A couple of them are even funny.

  96. Loved rd’s post. Especially the line, “slithered across the finish line”. No offense to reptiles.

  97. PJ – yes, Obama voted with the GOP. Quelle surprise.


    If it walks, talks, and votes like a Republican, then it IS a Republican. Obama is the Manchurian Candidate, a DINO in progressive drag.

    I want to wake up. Please gawd, can’t I wake up from this nightmare?

  98. sorry- my link is to the cloture vote roll call.

    the bill vote will be #168 on this page, and will be up soon:


  99. update from the orange empire:

    At least he had the dignity to not hide (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:valadon
    Yes, he made the wrong decision, but he isn’t pretending that he would do it any other way. I would say that it counts for something that he takes ownership of his positions instead of running away so that he can’t get pinned down like old McSly.

    reference to the fact that McCain skipped the vote (rich, coming from Obama supporters) and no mention of Hllary

  100. Wow, I am surprised. I honestly thought he would back down after the flack coming back at him from his “supporters”. What a huge mistake. I only hope this does it for him. Would love nothing better than to see those poll numbers evaporate in the other direction.

    Wake up supers! Once again you have the opportunity to turn this thing around.

  101. Where did people get the idea that Obama was a liberal or a progressive anyway?

    He never claimed to be.

  102. gary: how soon they forget. where was obama on the moveon censure vote? probably hiding in the restroom. coward.

  103. PJ:

    Don’t get your hopes up, the Dem leadership was supporting that bill.

    They are the Super-Super delegates.

  104. OOHHHH and now he’s censoring dissent from the OFB!!! I LOVE IT!!!!!!!!

    my.barackobama.com FISA group is DOWN (0+ / 0-)
    He sold us out

    ERROR: Couldn’t load blue:fetchpage URL
    Problem ID: y5dg-t39-pfg7
    Can I have my vote and money back please? We’re stuck with an orating flake. What a joke.

    “Could an omnipotent being create a rock so heavy that even that being could not lift it?”

    by awkawk on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 12:17:15 PM PDT

  105. campskunk, I actaully saw another comment that lamented the fact that he DIDN’T skip the vote…I guess they think not taking a stand is the honorable thing to do…..bunch of losers…deadenders…he he

  106. myiq2xu: Pressure, pressure, pressure. We need to exert what little we have left to make them come around. Just checked out his rah rah page, HuffPo. Nothing there yet. Probably all conferring on how to spin this in his favor. Oy!

  107. Everything you wanted to know about the FISA Amendment votes today

  108. ok, this is the last one, but I find it so amusing….Is he/she suggesting that we should elect obama so he is no longer in the senate where he can do damage to our 4th amendment rights. hee hee…this is too much fun…

    Goodbye to my 4th amendment rights (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:tomjones
    and to all of yours as well. Instead of continuing with all the infighting over Obama, it is time, whether or not you like him or hate him, to work your butt off for his election. Why? Because we have to spend the next two years finding good progressive Democratic primary opponents for every single traitorous Dem who voted for FISA and to abrogate our Constitutional rights.

    The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all – JFK- 5/18/63-Vanderbilt Univ.

    by oibme on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 12:23:47 PM PDT

  109. Crooks and Liars posters are throwing hissy fits over there. Several are even smug enough to write “told you so”. I love those guys!

  110. gary: That JFK reference could easily apply to oibme. Ignorance is right.

  111. What some people will tell themselves to avoid reality! (Pulls at hair.)

    I’m e-mailing that site that shows votes on the FISA bill to all and sundry of my “liberal” friends.

    PUMA Proverb #17: The Unity Pony is a Trojan Horse

  112. but let me make this very clear: To our telecom overlords who now hear all without impunity–no offense guys! really!

  113. GCH: Clinton voted yeah on cloture. Damn.

    Roll Call Vote for Cloture

    Apparently the Kossacks are mad at both of them. So sad.

  114. myiq2xu, on July 9th, 2008 at 3:26 pm Said:
    Where did people get the idea that Obama was a liberal or a progressive anyway?

    He never claimed to be.


    Didja miss all that?

    Obama was liberal because he made a speech in 2002 saying we shouldn’t invade Iraq.

    Yes, that was the extent of their “thought” on the matter. Plus, he was Not Hillary.

  115. garychapelhill, on July 9th, 2008 at 3:25 pm Said:
    update from the orange empire:

    At least he had the dignity to not hide (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:valadon
    Yes, he made the wrong decision, but he isn’t pretending that he would do it any other way. I would say that it counts for something that he takes ownership of his positions instead of running away so that he can’t get pinned down like old McSly.

    reference to the fact that McCain skipped the vote (rich, coming from Obama supporters) and no mention of Hllary

    Gee, the person in that quote sure sounds like GWB.

  116. Okay kids, cheer up. This isn’t the end of the world. The immunity issue means Bush never gets held accountable for anything, but we knew that ever since Nancy Pelosi to impeachment “off the table.”

    The new eavesdropping rules don’t apply to communications within the US, so the secret police will still officially need warrants to listen in on our calls.

    FISA as written would never survive a 4th Amendment challenge but until they arrest someone based on eavesdropping (and admit it) there will never be anyone with “standing” to sue.

    Let me give you a tip as a criminal defense attorney: Cops illegally eavesdrop all the time. They use scanners to listen in to cell phone and cordless phones. They just don’t admit it.

    That way they know when the drug dealer is holding so when the bust down the door and raid the guys home, they won’t look stupid.

  117. he has been the beneficiary of an unprecedented amount of benevolent projection.

  118. regencyg, on July 9th, 2008 at 3:35 pm Said:
    GCH: Clinton voted yeah on cloture. Damn.

    Roll Call Vote for Cloture

    Apparently the Kossacks are mad at both of them. So sad.

    No, she voted against cloture. They recorded her as aye, but she changed it to nay.

  119. regency – Unfortunately, they do not have that information right. Hillary voted “aye” on cloture initially but changed it to “nay.” I think she may have been confused by the various bills and motions for a second. The livebloggers at Firedoglake recorded every vote as it was happening.

  120. Pat Johnson, on July 9th, 2008 at 3:33 pm Said:
    Crooks and Liars posters are throwing hissy fits over there. Several are even smug enough to write “told you so”. I love those guys!

    I’m a former C&Lr, who supports Hillary Clinton; I was chased out…I’m the one who just posted the comment about “telling you so.”

    I was right about bush, I’m right about barackula.

  121. regency, she voted YEA on the amendment to strip immunity…that’s a good thing

  122. I love the telecoms!! XXOO

  123. destardi: Then my affection stands. Thanks for uplifting me today. It needs to be said over there every once in awhile. They are usually so busy villifying McCain (now that Hillary is no longer around) and praising The Mess.

  124. She voted for every amendment and against cloture and the final vote. Your source is wrong.

  125. I am beginning to think Bush people installed him to protect themselves funneling money to him and all the rest of the democratic nincompoops, leadership and others alike, have got themselves hoodwinked (and we know that there is no love lost between Bush and McCain.) Watch him not do anything with Iraq either — it will be a money making machine for all his Chicago friends.

  126. I quit visiting “Thieves and Prevaricators” when they went full fauxrage after the ABC debate. They made critical comments on previous debates when Hillary was getting ganged up on, but when Obama got the treatment they did 11 hyperventilating and pearl clutching posts in two days.

    But they claimed to be “neutral” on the two candidates.

  127. Thanks guys. They need to change the record to reflect her vote.

    See, she is my hero.

  128. myiq2xu: Admittedly I am confused. What was the difference with the closure vote?

  129. Well, now I see how easy it is to get confused. Thanks.

  130. I dunno, I haven’t been following along. Can you be more specific?

  131. destardi – Good for you!

    Stupid “progressive” media. They screwed everything up! I am sure there was a lot of astroturfing involved with that, on both the Republican and “Obama For America” sides…

  132. myiq – I just about died laughing when I got a hysterical email from Robert Greenwald (Brave New Films) about how they won’t let Fox attack Michelle Obama.

    Where were they when MSNObama, and other media HDS sufferers like MoDo, Frank Rich et al., attacked Hillary 24-7? Hell, where were they when FOX attacked Hillary? I heard nothing whatsoever from these people then.

    I don’t think it’s right that Michelle Obama should be racially attacked, but you know what? If they are going to be this hypocritical, then I’m not going to bother giving them my time and support. They can kiss my big ol’ butt!

  133. Hillary voted Nay, Obama voted YAY on FISA.

    It’s on NoQ.

  134. on amendment to strip immunity (good)

    On cloture(bad–prevents filibuster)

    On passage (bad)

  135. madamab:

    The GOP will not make rac*st or s*xist attacks on MO, nor will they make rac*st attacks on BO.

    First of all, they ain’t stupid. Second of all, the real rac*sts already know that BO&MO are black.

    But expect legitimate criticism to answered with the race card.

  136. I am beginning to see hope and change. Hope the polls plummet and the supers change their votes.

  137. I think Axelrod (the real power in the BO campaign) miscalculated badly.

    They should have let The Precious take the moral high ground and lose. Fighting and losing wouldn’t make him look weak, it would have made him look like he had principles.

    The fix was in, FISA was going to pass anyway. BO’s handlers should have let him put on a dog and pony show (of course he wouldn’t have criticized Nancy, Steny or Harry, he could have blamed the GOP and Bush.

    But then again, that would be “partisanship”

  138. is it wrong to be so giddy in the face of imminent intrusion by the telecoms in my life, and at the sorrow of others? If so, I don’t want to be right!!!

    The day that democracy died (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:SF Green
    I am so disappointed in Obama. All I want to do is to sit down and cry. What a disgrace our country has become. It is truly the United Corporations of America. And I thought that Obama was going to change that. I guess I was wrong.

    by Katiebegood on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 12:44:24 PM PDT

    I apologize, I won’t revel in others’ sorrow any more 😉

  139. Wonder if Keith Blowhard is preparing a “special comment” for tonight? Naw, he will just lambaste Hillary for making The Mess look bad.

  140. Change you can believe in:

    On cloture(bad–prevents filibuster)
    HRC- NAY
    BO- YEA

    On passage (bad)

    Yeah, right. This is where the faith part comes in? What part of Democratic does this guy not understand?

    Pat J — what you said.

  141. If it wasn’t so awful it would be funny. But at the same time we have now established that the government is capable of doing anything it wants to its citizens without recourse. And if those Obamabots who belittled and insulted us for our support of Hillary Clinton are watching the scales drop off their eyelids, so be it. “I told you so!” is such a refreshing chant these days.

    No more having to listen to “yes we can” without laughing out loud.

  142. To Carol and Everyone,

    Thank you for answering my earlier question way up early in the thread:

    For my Hillary:


    DATE: July 9, 2008 3:04 PM EDT
    NAME: Linda

    AMOUNT: $100.00

  143. “I apologize, I won’t revel in others’ sorrow any more ”


    But I will!!

  144. Wine would flow, frenzied dancing and orgies would ensue! The media would committ hari-kari!

    Hallelujah! Preach it, sister! And it won’t be just us – the whole world will be joining in.

    Incidentally, about the money we raised for Hillary – they really need to get this publicized in the media. If we don’t, then Obama donors are going to get credit for it, which still makes Hillary look like she’s dependent on him and has to help him. I really hope that the PUMA members who are going on the air will spread this information.

  145. myiq-

    Dead on about cops- Same thing about minimizing the call- if it’s personal and juicy-The whole call is transcribed and/or listened to, with pertinent parts used for fun. It gets boring on a wire

  146. Pat: I knew this is how Obama would vote when I saw an AP article this AM in my paper that said public opinion is changing toward Obama to a moderate, rather than a liberal. McCain is seen as a conservative, so Obama is now viewed as centrist. IOW, his play to the right is paying off.

    I just skimmed over the article, because I have morning reflux, and I won’t suffer to see more AP BS.

  147. I hope the supers change their votes, but if they remove Hillary’s name from the ballot, it won’t matter. It’ll be like all those old “elections” in the Soviet Union that constantly showed Leonid Brezhnev winning in a landslide with no opponents. 😦

    I have given up being pleasantly surprised by my government, especially the federal one. The California state government is the only one that has surprised me pleasantly lately. I’m not fan of Arnie, but he flipped the feds off on stem cell research, has said he won’t support an attempt to change the Constitution to outlaw gay marriage, is pro-choice, and met with the Brits to talk about global warming plus is content to sue to EPA so we can put stronger emissions controls in place. He may have had to get his arm twisted out of the socket to do it, but he played ball in the end. Like McCain, he’s spit in the Preznit’s eye on a few big issues that make me much less likely to be offended by his very existence.

    Obama will be the Republicratic candidate for preznit because it would be the worst possible choice. I’m not sure if he’ll win, but I see very little reason to be optimistic.

    About the only upside to this is that I get to spit in the faces of every fucking Obama fan out there. Stupid, stupid bastards. They did this. They caused it, and now they’re all waking up after their koolaid binge and windering what happened.

    YOU happened, you miserable, brick-stupid sons of bitches. YOU happened. Bite my bald dago ass.

  148. This is one hel!uva post for somebody who is on vacation. I mean, YEAH!!!

  149. Hey Check this out! (may have already been posted somewhere….)


    Obama’s online muscle flexes against him
    Fans use his Web site to rip shifts in policy

    PUMA recruiting spot???

  150. Janis, tell us how you really feel! Funny stuff! Arnie has been a surprise out there in CA. He kind of goes his own way on a lot of issues. Who would have thought it?

  151. Pat, the funny thing is, he’s actually fairly popular, and even people who aren’t that fond of him (and I’m one) have to admit that he’s not that bad. Centrist Republicans really aren’t a serious problem for us out here in CA.

    If more Repubs were like him politically, I might actually feel that I had a choice every four years.

    Granted, I still grit my teeth about him on the whole groping thing — I’d STILL love to punch him in the face for that, and it bothers the shit out of me.

  152. PJ/Janis – Did you see what Arnie said on gay marriage?

    “Well, personally I think marriage should be between a man and a woman, but I don’t want to force my views on anyone else. I think the ballot initiative against the gay marriage amendment is a waste of time.”

    Woooo-hooooo! You tell ’em, Arnie!

  153. joaniebone – Read your link.

    They’re just so sad.

    The group is eagerly waiting to see if Obama will speak from the Senate floor on the issue, something Pincus said could generate an “Obama moment,” like those triggered by other passionate speeches he has given on such topics as race.

    Still, that may not be enough for those who say they have lost trust in Obama’s conviction on this and other matters.

    “This just seems like a tremendous betrayal,” said Tom Vincent, a Web designer from upstate New York. “It’s a deal-breaker for me.”

    Ohhhh, if only Obama would make a speech and trigger an “Obama moment!” If only I could fall in love again….if only he’d bring me flowers…

    What a bunch of immature idiots. I am schadenfreud-ing like CRAZY.

  154. Garychap: You are just too funny… I check in during the day, I get my news up dates from the comments here at the confluence. So far, the past few days when I check in, your comments have had me in LOL, my eyes are tearing, I choke on my coffee…
    Thanks, I love to laugh.

  155. I hate to do this, but I have to:


  156. […] the other hand, there are the crazies. (Excerpt: “Did I mention all of the superdelegates that had to be threatened with primary challenges, […]

  157. And coming from a Repub, that’s a shift to the left. From a Dem, it’d be a shift to the right — and the one thing the past few decades of American politics have taught me is that where you stand doesn’t matter as much as in what direction you’re moving.

    Arnie’s attitude is thinking of the future, and he doesn’t seem to care if he pisses of the right wing.

    It may simply be because he’s Arnie and knows it. He has all the clout and publicity glare anyone in public office could possibly want; he could put his thumb in the eye of the WH on stem cell research, and they’ll still line up for photo ops with him. So they can’t force him too easily to do what they want him to do.

    And I think McCain is the same way but for different reasons. He probably isn’t seeking reelection, and he’s old and ornery enough that, if he gets into the Oval Office, he’ll lose NO time telling anyone who tries to get him to knuckle under to fuck off.

    And I keep thinking how different the Abu Ghraib fallout would have been had it happened on McCain’s watch. He’d have gone BALLISTIC. They would still be scrubbing the entrails out of the Oval Office carpet.

    Moderate Republicans who steer the economy and keep their goddamned noses out of people’s private lives aren’t all that bad, are they?

  158. Janis: I love your commentaries. Reminds me so much of Sugar. No punches pulled, just head on.

    And truthfully, I could not care less if he speaks on the Senate floor regarding his vote. The only speech I am interested in hearing goes something like: I realized I am in over my head and the bullshit I have been throwing out there no longer sticks. So in lieu of the nomination, I gratefully send it back to the one candidate who can possibly steer our way out of this mess, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton.

    I am Barack Obama and I approve this message.

  159. Anyone here ever heard of a Schadenfreude Pie?

    Post it to the Obama blogs. It’s great with cold milk. 🙂

  160. Janis, he also can’t run for higher office – so he doesn’t have to position himself with the party as much.

  161. Oh!

    How DARE Jesse Jackson? Doesn’t he know Obama MUSST only be worshipped?

    Jesse Jackson apologizes for comments critical of Obama

    The Rev. Jesse Jackson issued an apology to Barack Obama Wednesday for criticizing the Illinois senator’s recent comments directed toward some members of the black community.

    According to Jackson, a Fox News microphone picked up comments he meant to deliver privately that seemed to disparage the presumptive Democratic nominee for appearing to lecture the black community on morality.

    Jackson didn’t elaborate on the context of his remarks, except to say he was trying to explain that Obama was hurting his relationship with black voters by recently conducting “moral” lectures at African-American churches.

    “For any harm or hurt that this hot mic private conversation may have caused, I apologize,” Jackson said in a statement issued to CNN. “My support for Senator Obama’s campaign is wide, deep and unequivocal. I cherish this redemptive and historical moment.”

    “My appeal was for the moral content of his message to not only deal with the personal and moral responsibility of black males, but to deal with the collective moral responsibility of government and the public policy which would be a corrective action for the lack of good choices that often led to their irresponsibility,” Jackson also said.

    “That was the context of my private conversation and it does not reflect any disparagement on my part for the historic event in which we are involved or my pride in Senator Barack Obama, who is leading it, whom I have supported by crisscrossing this nation in every level of media and audience from the beginning in absolute terms.”

    Over the course of the campaign season, Obama has at times directed criticism directly to the black community, most sharply in a Chicago speech on Father’s Day that criticized some men for failing in their duties as parents.

    “They have abandoned their responsibilities, acting like boys instead of men. And the foundations of our families are weaker because of it,” Obama said then.

    “You and I know how true this is in the African-American community. We know that more than half of all black children live in single-parent households, a number that has doubled — doubled — since we were children. We know the statistics: that children who grow up without a father are five times more likely to live in poverty and commit crime, nine times more likely to drop out of schools and twenty times more likely to end up in prison,” he also said.

    We are talking here about a guy whose entire claim to be POTUS is that people like him and flock in thousands to see him; Thus the acceptance speech in a stadium and an attempts to give a speech on the most historic site in Germany, as a candidate mind you.

  162. I don’t know who I hate more, Obama, or his asshole supporters.

    Please do not show me anymore of their whining over FISA. It just makes me ill to think these assholes did this to us by shooting down Hillary.

    Please God, avenge her!

  163. Not wearing my boots today so has anyone else checked out Daily Kos yet?

  164. joaniebone–did you see the comment from Kos? apparently Obama has shut them down. no dissent allowed in Obamerica.

  165. Hillary supporters don’t need to be “woo-ed” or shown “love”. They need respect, something that Obama has NEVER done.

  166. Joaniebone: “he has been the beneficiary of an unprecedented amount of benevolent projection”
    That statement is totally on the mark.

    We’ll know the DNC is ready to start healing when Donna resigns for a lucrative position for a private company. Not holding my breath, but I’ll never see myself as a Democrat while she’s there. #1 sweep when the housecleaning starts – now, November, or in 4 years. The US will come to despise Obama & those who foist him upon us

  167. Voting Nay on the FISA Bill:

    Akaka, Bingaman, Boxer, Brown, Byrd, Cantwell, Cardin, Clinton, Dodd, Durbin, Feingold, Harkin, Kerry, Klobuchar, Lautenberg, Leahy, Levin, Menendez, Murray, Reed, Reid, Sanders, Schumer, Stabenow, Tester, and Wyden; 25 Democrats and one Independent with some integrity, honor and love of their country.

    Every other Democrat in the Senate, with the exception of Kennedy, who did not vote, needs to be primaried, seriously, often and with the intent to put the fear of re-election into their evil hearts.

  168. At least Kerry from MA did the right thing for once. Now how can he continue to support the anti constitutional candidate who is just another Repub lite? Senseless. I hope this creates a groundswell for PUMAs.

  169. Mawm. Promise. no more.

    i just wonder about some of his delegates. I’d like to get my hands on some of those that he has undoubtedly pissed off.

    Time for a post (anyone? anyone?) regarding the actual procedures at the convention and outlining the scenario where Hillary could actually take this thing by utilizing those betrayed.

  170. If you’re feeling generous that Hillary upheld the Constitution today, feel free to start donating early!

  171. Gary,
    Exactly when do they wake up? Can’t some of this be channeled to benefit us?

    Mawm, God knows, they’re assholes, but I wouldn’t mind using them.

  172. Okie Dokey:

    Linda has started this Fundraiser with a very hefty

    $100.00 (please share Hillary with us)!

    Who can get someone to match?

    PUMA$ Who Love Hillary Donate!

  173. Hillary’s statement on FISA:


    July 9, 2008

    One of the great challenges before us as a nation is remaining steadfast in our fight against terrorism while preserving our commitment to the rule of law and individual liberty. As a senator from New York on September 11, I understand the importance of taking any and all necessary steps to protect our nation from those who would do us harm. I believe strongly that we must modernize our surveillance laws in order to provide intelligence professionals the tools needed to fight terrorism and make our country more secure. However, any surveillance program must contain safeguards to protect the rights of Americans against abuse, and to preserve clear lines of oversight and accountability over this administration. I applaud the efforts of my colleagues who negotiated this legislation, and I respect my colleagues who reached a different conclusion on today’s vote. I do so because this is a difficult issue. Nonetheless, I could not vote for the
    legislation in its current form.

    The legislation would overhaul the law that governs the administration’ s surveillance activities. Some of the legislation’ s provisions place guidelines and restrictions on the operational details of the surveillance activities, others increase judicial and legislative oversight of those activities, and still others relate to immunity for telecommunications companies that participated in the administration’ s surveillance activities.

    While this legislation does strengthen oversight of the administration’ s surveillance activities over previous drafts, in many respects, the oversight in the bill continues to come up short. For instance, while the bill nominally calls for increased oversight by the FISA Court, its ability to serve as a meaningful check on the President’s power is debatable. The clearest example of this is the limited power given to the FISA Court to review the government’s targeting and minimization procedures.

    But the legislation has other significant shortcomings. The legislation also makes no meaningful change to the immunity provisions. There is little disagreement that the legislation effectively grants retroactive immunity to the telecommunications companies. In my judgment, immunity under these circumstances has the practical effect of shutting down a critical avenue for holding the administration accountable for its conduct. It is precisely why I have supported efforts in the Senate to strip the bill of these provisions, both today and during previous debates on this subject. Unfortunately, these efforts have been unsuccessful.

    What is more, even as we considered this legislation, the administration refused to allow the overwhelming majority of Senators to examine the warrantless wiretapping program. This made it exceedingly difficult for those Senators who are not on the Intelligence and Judiciary Committees to assess the need for the operational details of the legislation, and whether greater protections are necessary. The same can be said for an assessment of the telecom immunity provisions. On an issue of such tremendous importance to our citizens – and in particular to New Yorkers – all Senators should have been entitled to receive briefings that would have enabled them to make an informed decision about the merits of this legislation. I cannot support this legislation when we know neither the nature of the surveillance activities authorized nor the role played by telecommunications companies granted immunity.

    Congress must vigorously check and balance the president even in the face of dangerous enemies and at a time of war. That is what sets us apart. And that is what is vital to ensuring that any tool designed to protect us is used – and used within the law – for that purpose and that purpose alone. I believe my responsibility requires that I vote against this compromise, and I will continue to pursue reforms that will improve our ability to collect intelligence in our efforts to combat terror and to oversee that authority in Congress.

  174. Contribution Details
    Date: July 09, 2008 5:00 PM EDT
    Contact: Delphyne
    New Jersey
    Amount: $20.08

    And thanking Sens. Menendez and Lautenberg for voting against FISA.

  175. Obama isn’t going to listen to their whining. He believes he has the left vote sewn up, so he is now proceeding happily down the path to the right.

    Whistling past the grave yard in my opinion.

    People need to vote against him. Enough of this post partisan shit. Post partisan means Democrats get screwed so Obama can try and get the right wing to vote for him.

    Obama and co need a complete humiliation at the ballot box. It is the only way we are ever going to get someone in the white house who represents the people again. If he wins, it esentially condones all of this crap.

  176. Good for my boy Cardin. I am liking him a lot these days.

    And GREAT for Hillary. I am feelin’ an itchin’ to visit the big boyz blogz and get my fix of schadenfreude. Later!

  177. Mawm is correct. My vote in November was dependent upon where he was in the polls with my home state. If his lead was big, I could abstain. If close I would vote McCain. But now I am almost convinced to vote McCain even if they have to cart him into the arena in a wheelbarrow just to prove a point.

    MA is heavily liberal. But an extra vote for McCain here and there will at least send a signal to the statisticians that certain elements of the state voted NO against this third stringer.

  178. pm317,

    For words like “wooing” and “show some love” to be sexist in the context of that report one needs to assume all or almost all the “supporters” of HRC are women.

    Last I knew it was not 17 or 18 million women who supported Ms. Clinton, but men and women.

  179. thanks for the link to Jesse Jackson comments. I was pretty well stunned by the Father’s Day lecture Obama gave, particularly that he gave it on that day, and that I felt it was much directed at “eavesdropping” people of other races and the media, not at the African American community. I didn’t like it at all especially on Father’s Day and thought I would have felt terrible if I was with my family at church and my father had to hear a lecture instead of celebrating being a father.

  180. wow, I also notice this is a pre-apology by Jesse Jackson for comments that haven’t even been aired yet! I wonder what he said.

  181. Mawm, on July 9th, 2008 at 5:02 pm Said:

    Obama isn’t going to listen to their whining. He believes he has the left vote sewn up, so he is now proceeding happily down the path to the right.


    In answer to his FISA dissenters, BO should post on his website in big letters:


    Let’s see how they feel when he treats them like trapped rats.

  182. ‘If he wins, it esentially condones all of this crap.’

    That’s it in a nutshell, and how this lifelong FDR- loving Democrat is going to vote McCain without apology.

    I personally think Washington could be up for grabs, and I am prepared for my vote to count. We CANNOT reward these criminal bastards.

  183. At least we would be voting for the criminal bastards we know are criminal bastards and not some untried Chicago sham artist.

  184. Charles, I really liked your post you did directed to Obama supporters.

  185. Carol, count me in!

    Contribution Details
    Date: July 09, 2008 5:23 PM EDT
    Contact: madamab
    Amount: $20.08

    Rise, Hillary, Rise!

  186. Maybe he knows he can’t energize Democrats, so he is trying to pick off as many Republicans as he can from McCain.

    I think he is counting on the Dems who are disgusted with him to stay home come election time. I don’t think they realize that a lot of us will actually go out and vote for McCain.

  187. Please. I am solidly behind Hillary. I will not vote for Obama whom I see as the worst possible combination of Nixon, Cheney and the Shrub.

    And I think the choice voters will be offered in Nov. is probably one of the worst in history: an incompetent, arrogant egomaniac vs. a man who thinks the Republican policies of the past 8 years have been good for the country.

    But Obama is going to be the Democratic candidate. Nothing, nada, zip can change that (short of his being found in bed with another woman or seen killing a man in full sight of 100 witnesses). No single SuperD is going to risk his or her political career by changing his/her vote. And to get the 175 needed would require a massive coordination of effort that would be exposed by the media before it had even begun. Besides which, the DNC is now owned hook, line and sinker by Obama.

    Yes, I want Hillary’s name put in nomination & her votes counted. But it is a waste of all our energies to insist that there is some way she can still become the nominee. And if, by some kind of maneuvering it did happen, her nomination would be every bit as tainted as Obama’s. And the treatment she got by the media during the past year would look like sugarplums compared to what she would see in the GE.

    No. We should focus on three things: 1) helping her retire her campaign debt so that she is not obliged to Obama; 2) making sure that she under no circumstances accept the VP slot (not that I think Obama would ever seriously offer it). If/when he loses the election, she would be blamed – and if he won, she would be stuck in 4 years of a humiliating hell with no power & the obligation to support policies she didn’t accept.

    So, 3) I don’t know how we do this, given Senate rules, but she must replace Reid as Senate Majority Leader. If Obama is Pres., we will need her strength to add some muscle to what will no doubt be tepid initiatives. If McCain is Pres., we will need her to lead a true opposition.

  188. I hope the a$$holes keep saying “where they gonna go”. Because it just pyses off a whole lot of people.

    Where we gonna go? Well let’s see;

    We can vote for McCain

    We can vote for Nader

    We can vote for McKinney

    We can vote for Barr

    We can write in Senator Clinton or anyone else we choose

    No place to go? Do they remember Florida in 2000 and the effect the Nader vote had on the election?

    One of the things I always loathed most about Bush was that he not only was corrupt, he was a dimwit on top of it.

    Now we get to see the same thing in the Democratic Party with the addition of cojones of Jell-O. Very little Jell-O. Minuscule even.

  189. I apologize if this has been discussed before, but there are so many things for lurkers like me to try to catch up on I may have missed it. I went over to Fox to see if they were reporting what remarks Jesse Jackson had made about BO and found this.


    I’m pretty much speechless on many levels.

  190. Just gave $100 to Hillary.

  191. At least we would be voting for the criminal bastards we know are criminal bastards and not some untried Chicago sham artist.

    pat-good point. gotta go–see you guys later.

  192. NYT – Obama’s Donors have contributed “less than $100,000”.

    Terry on Hardballess in a minutes!

  193. Get the word out to the other sites:

    Delphyne – $20.08
    madamab – $20.08
    Kali – $100

    We are already up to $240.16!

    PUMA$ Who Donate Rock!

  194. YAB – If you think we are wasting our energies, then by all means, find Hillary supporters who follow your line of thinking. But I don’t think you really have any idea what we’re up to here.

    We do want to retire her debt and we have already paid down half of it for her. We are fundraising to retire the rest of it even as you speak.

    We do want on open convention. That is what Riverdaughter’s post is about.

    But how in the world would her nomination be tainted if she got it? She is the popular vote winner, not Obama. Obama is only ahead of her by 125 pledged delegates. He did NOT reach the magic number with pledged delegates.

    Please realize that there is no nomination in history that has been so closely contested, where one nominee is unequivocally declared the winner before the convention. It is simply not done, because it is disrespectful, against tradition, and totally unfair fo the candidates.

    This was a tie, and the DNC declared the winner before the final vote was cast. We don’t accept that, and maybe if we make enough noise, we can reverse the fix. Better to go down fighting than just to go down.

  195. Carol: Point me in the direction of the link.

  196. I saw the “stay in school” lecture as well on ABC news blog.. Not getting why.. stay in school is a valuable message to all young people of course, but why trash their dreams if they have dreams of the NBA and being a famous rapper, just let them know that even if you *do* achieve that, you need your education. I’m not saying someone like Lil Wayne is a role model but he is talented and super popular, I don’t know, it’s like why bring him up even.

  197. Popular Vote Winner – Senator and Former First Lady of the State of Arkansas and of the United States of America!

    Enough SAID!

    PUMA$ Who Donate Rock! (Those who love Hillary Rock also!)

    Thanking you in advance!

  198. What madamab said.

  199. Someone with the ability to post the link – please do so!

  200. fuzzybear in the house again…

    Well Hillary did it again-Obama is pissed what happened to the Unity Pony…She VOTED Against the FISA compromise…

    Donna Brazile is so angry that she is burning her flannel shirts and threw her tool belt out the window of her Ivory Tower Office.

    Doesn’ she understand that she has to vote with “he one”? Does she intentionally try to embarass him? She must really want to be out in left field! What does she have principles? does she really believe in the constitution?

    This is for sure a swipe at Obama for America…she really must not want the VP slot….

    I can hear it now and wanted to share it!


  201. I think the beef with the father’s day speech was most definately prevoked by Obama’s calling black men “boys”. Disgusting tactic.

  202. what is the correct link to give again ther is some confusion…I would like to give $ 25. 00 but want to do it right.


  203. Those that Love Hillary need no longer explain their reasoning – everyone knows who “won”. Now, let’s make this right!

    PUMA$ Who Donate Rock!

  204. Of COURSE Hillary just voted the way she did becuse she’s trying to make the Baby Jesus look bad! She’d do anything to make him look bad! Just like the ABC debate, where she went out of her way to make him look bad by purposefully knowing more stuff and being smarter! That Gorgon!

    Making Barky look bad is like making shit stink. There’s no need to.

  205. michael – I’m backkkkkkkkkkkkkkk!

    I kicked off the Fundraising! (I am just begging for debt relief!)

    PUMA$ Who Donate Rock!

  206. guys, if you contribute $50 to pay down Hillary’s debt, you can get a winning T- shirt from her campaign T- shirt contest.

  207. Now will the media report on a key difference between Hillary and Obama its on the record and everyone can see they do not agree on FISA?

    Can I please have my candidate back?


  208. Charles;

    If you can read German, Der Spiegel has a little satire about the Brandenburger Gate and Obama. It’s hilarious.

    Here is my rough translation:

    “Because of the man from IL, the Brandenburg Gate as speaking Venue is completely booked for years to come.

    After it was published, that some Senator from the US State of IL will be speaking at the Brandenburg Gate, suddenly everyone has expressed the same desire. Aldi North would like to give a speech about “the democracy of the mini-notebook”, Siemens CEO Löscher is planning a barn burner of a speech about “equality in firings”, actor Robert Atzorn is giving a speech about the “democratic equality of mien game”, just to name a few.

    Apparently, some boobs always thought speeking at the Brandenburg Gate was a privilege afforded only to US President, Berlin’s mayor said. “That’s absolut non-sense. It has ALWAYS been the tradition that every clown could give a speech here.

    The original is here for those who can read German.

  209. RD – how and where? Can you Post! Also, can we get a specific site with a detail contribution total?

  210. michael – let’s not get selfish – she belongs to all of us!

    PUMA$ Who Donate Rock!

  211. Janis-

    love the sarcasm but please tell fuzzy how you really feel? ROLF

    Its so funny to me because it is so true…

    also Nancy was so angry that a frown actually cracked through her boxoted face!

    Dean may address the nations on how freedom from unwarranted wiretapping is unamerican..

    Axelfraud is looking into a speech for obama where if things go really south….how meant to push the Nay button but pushed the Yes button in error because he was distracted by a call from MO abut picking up arugulla at the whole foods on the way home.


  212. fuzzy –

    Let’s leave Botox out of this! If you had only a 4% approval rating, you would have to try to keep the frown off of your face also! (Remember, she does bring a “freshness” to the floor.)

    PUMA$ Who Donate Rock!

  213. That story about Obama telling kids to stay in school and learn a foreign language was amazing.

    I have no problem with this idea, but the way he presented it! I mean, could he be more condescending and negative?

    Also, he is running for President. Shouldn’t he have some understanding of the institutional reasons WHY kids don’t stay in school? Like maybe, their schools are underfunded and No Child Left Behind has ruined the curriculum? Like maybe, they are poor and have to take jobs to put “food on their families”?

    And after presenting this understanding of these problems, shouldn’t he then offer solutions that would help solve them?

    Wouldn’t that make more sense then pointing the finger and preaching to them?

    Sometimes I believe he is running for First Minister of the United States instead of President. Sorry, Obama, I don’t need a preacher man. I need an executive – and I’d prefer him or her to be non-Unitary.

  214. Carol –
    Hillary is like a fine gelato so rich textured and flavorful its hard to share her we all want her as our own personal candidate.

    Because I like you guys I will share her unlike her opponnent she has enough Ideas to go around.


  215. Do you guys know that Hillary was on a plane today with BO and Carolina?

    I hope they gave her a “barf bag”!

    PUMA$ Who Donate Rock!

  216. Who are the 9% who approve of congress? Do you think they are evenly distributed across the electorate, or do they clumb anywhere in particular on the political spectrum?

  217. Well, I gave Hill some more love today:

    DATE: July 9, 2008 4:08 PM EDT
    NAME: Valhallaxxxx
    ADDRESS: xxxxxxxx
    Medford, MA 02155
    AMOUNT: $44.00

    I was planning on donating this week anyway but figured this timing helps her know we support her FISA vote!

  218. How many goddamned schools even TEACH a foreign language nowdays?! Does this man think everyone can just do this casually? I’m a language nutcase who studies them for fun, and I have to bust my ASS to do it.

    He thinks everyone’s kids go to a magnet school or the local Montessori, doesn’t he?

  219. And again we all know Nancy has ledgendary Mirgraines (caused by her constant need to clean up after the big “o”‘s gaffes.) Nancy only uses Botox to help with these migraines not for cosmetic purposes those are just a sad sideffect.

    These botox treatments are covered under the congressional health plan. You know the one, Hillary was going to open it up to all 47 million uninsured if they could not get Health insurance on their own.

    Of course unless people come to their senses we will never know.


  220. Does anyone know what Jesse Jackson said? I am watching him apologize on CNN, but I don’t know what he said…

  221. Wuppppppppppppeeeeeeeeeee!

    Valhalla just our gave more love – $44.00

    $244.16 Total so Far!!!!!!!

    Anyone rich enough to double that TOTAL!

    PUMA$ Who Donate Rock!

  222. fuzzy –

    That would be 47 million uninsured able to get wrinkle reduction with BOTOX!

    That’s why I love our Gal!

    PUMA$ Who Donate Rock!

  223. Hillary has the stomach to be president-she can handle Obama’s “waffles” and empty speeches. Look at her body language its like “you insignificant turd…you dont deserve this high office hell this country doesnt deserve the crap you plan to put it through. I could squash you like a bug.”

    she is not weak she is totally discusted….


  224. I agree madamab. He just reeks of condescension and arrogance.

    FYI, I may be newer to posting here, but I’ve been lurking for quite a while. I was a Democrat for years even before I was old enough to vote, but I don’t know this Democratic party. I’ve warned my family already to bundle up on November 4th because hell will indeed be freeezing over as I vote for a Republican.

  225. JJ,

    Check Bill O’Reilly on Faux.

  226. vallhalla what link did you use?


  227. Carol,
    Here’s what I received from Hillary’s campaign today:

    Dear Let’sPretendi’mAnonymous,

    I have so many wonderful memories from the millions of people I met on the campaign trail. Over the past year and half, I have also collected a few cherished mementos. They are a reflection of the many ups and downs that we went through together and represent our many accomplishments.

    In May, Chelsea announced our “Project T-Shirt” contest, and I never imagined we would have such an outpouring of support and great designs. We received almost five thousand amazing entries, and more than 125,000 of you voted for your favorite design.

    While the primary race may be over, I think the winning t-shirt — and it won by a landslide — still makes a wonderful statement about everything you and I accomplished in this historic race and our determination to keep fighting for what we believe in.

    If you contribute $50 today you’ll get a t-shirt with the winning design and continue to help me pay down our campaign debt.

    Click here to make a contribution of $50 and receive one of our winning t-shirts.

    Denitza of Weehawken, New Jersey submitted the winning t-shirt. I’d like to thank Denitza and the thousands of others who put their time, talent, and efforts into all the great designs that were submitted.

    I know you’re as proud as I am of everything we achieved and I hope I can count on you to work with me on the issues that brought us together. By helping us pay down the debt from one of the hardest-fought races in Democratic primary history, you’re making a real difference today for all our future efforts.

    Plus, if you contribute $50, you’ll get one of our winning t-shirts. It’s a great statement about the spirit that drove our campaign, and I hope you’ll get one for yourself!

    Contribute $50 to help pay down our debt, and you’ll get a t-shirt with our winning design.

    Thank you for everything!
    Hillary Rodham Clinton


  228. michael P Varvel, on July 9th, 2008 at 5:46 pm Said:
    fuzzybear in the house again…

    Well Hillary did it again-Obama is pissed what happened to the Unity Pony…She VOTED Against the FISA compromise…

    Donna Brazile is so angry that she is burning her flannel shirts and threw her tool belt out the window of her Ivory Tower Office.

    Thanks for the laugh on such a horrible day.

  229. Funny, she didn’t mention Obama in that email at all. Wait, let me reread it. hmmm, Nope, no mention of The Precious.
    Curioser. Maybe Bill told her to maintain her dignity.

  230. michael P Varvel —

    I just used the link on HillaryClinton.com. They’ve changed the language to be for retiring her campaign debt.

    I think you only have to worry about which site you give from if you’ve maxed out on the primary, which I haven’t.

    And I am VERY UPSET because I didn’t see RD’s post about the tshirts until after I gave my $44 — which was only not $50 for the symbolism!

    So I guess I have to give another $50, I just hope they don’t run out of tees before I can do it. Hmmph!

  231. That she can maintain her dignity with some many dipsh*ts around her is remarkable!

    PUMA$ Who Donate Rock!

  232. Valhalla – You are a good citizen – your place in history is secured! Now ununity pony up that $50 and post the details!

    Love Ya!

    PUMA$ Who Donate Rock!

  233. Shit, I can’t sling a fifty at her until I get home tonight. I hope they still have t-shirts.

    And I still want to know how much money we tossed at her total over the long weekend. Damn but I wish she could crow about it.

    Well, at least she knows we love her. 🙂

  234. riverdaughter, on July 9th, 2008 at 6:29 pm

    She might send out a new one after BO sees that his name was mentioned at all.

  235. Ok where is the common sense in these bots? why ust we suffer under them any longer…a pox on all their houses.

  236. Jesse Jackson Jr. just threw Dad under the Bus with all of us other disgusting BO “disappointments”!

    PUMA$ Who Donate Rock!

  237. I have to say I must be hung over from last night cocktail party that is why the “bear” is so testy…


  238. It was great to see Hill on the senate floor! Hopefully, c-span will repeat it tonight for those who missed it.
    Is there any concrete data on her remaining debt? Also, it is infuriating to me that she is fundraising for him when he is not helping her!!! How can she be persuaded to not campaign or fundraise for him? He does not deserve any help from her at all and I don’t like that she is expected to do it.

    Fuzzy-donate through Heidi Li-then you know it goes to the right place.

  239. I just multiple faxed the Campaign telling them where we are and what we want:

    A PUMA$ site page, chart with the Total Debt and Moving the Bar with Contribution Totals.

    She can’t site us, but maybe we will get the totals!

    PUMA$ Who Donate Rock!

  240. Hey Carol,

    I never did get a chance to be counted here – I’d donated $120.08 on the 4th of July, and also did end up buying two t-shirts today:


    DATE: July 9, 2008 2:59 PM EDT
    NAME: ——-
    ADDRESS: ———, GA ——
    AMOUNT: $100.00


    Please allow up to 4 weeks for delivery.

    T-Shirt Design Winner
    size: L ($50 each)
    Quantity: 1
    T-Shirt Design Winner
    size: M ($50 each)
    Quantity: 1


  241. What the hell did Jackson say that he had to apologize for? CNN won’t give out too many details except it is so bad they said it refers to male genitalia. Now I am more than curious. Wonder if perezhilton.com has anything up on this yet?

  242. fuzzy –

    2 pox’s on all of their houses – why should we care – we are all under the bus!

    PUMA$ Who Donate Rock!

  243. rd: I just went to the website you indicated and did not see anything about the tee shirt. Does this pop up after you hit the submit button?

  244. Can someone please get my e-mail address to Riverdaughter? Or one of the admins? I believe I will have some breaking news tomorrow, and I wanted to know if The Confluence wanted a jump start on it before it went to other blogs, since I consider this to have been home base for a couple of months now. It’s about the Declaration going national, but that’s all I can say right now. I’ll know more after the conference call at 8:30.

    my e-mail is peacocksandlilies AT gmail DOT com. Thanks!

  245. I can’t believe Junior dissed his DAD for some pol — when Jackson Sr.’s done tons more for the black community than Barky ever DREAMED of doing.

    Oh sorry — he let a bunch of black people freeze their asses off in a tenement and did nothing. My bad.

    Jesse Sr. has his problems — that “Hymietown” crack still rankles — but he’s walked the walk.

    Ever notice how Barky hates people with actual achievements in their past? It’s like he thinks other people have lived accomplished lives just to make him look bad. Or maybe it’s just the women.

  246. OT but I just saw this youtube at Sky Dancing in a Man’s World. If you haven’t donated to pay off Hillary’s campaign debt this will make you want to.

    I am so proud that she was/is our candidate.

    She really is who she is. People are so afraid of that.

  247. Chevaliar – I was on vacation so I haven’t finished the known contributions for the 4th – I will go back!

    Thanks so much!

    $100 added

    $344.16 Totalllllllllllllllllllll

    PUMA$ Who Donate Rock (and wear really cool T’s)!

  248. Hello Charles Have read some of your thought provoking threads I am sad to see that the germans have fallen for the charms of Evita,…er Obama.

    I would think they would caution us on raising an inexperienced and unknown person to our highest office, they having much bad experience with the same at the end of the first half of the last century…

    I guess the great generation is truely passing into history.


  249. Annabelle,

    RD has mail, kay?

  250. Annabellep – WOW! That is just awesome! Good for you. PUMA!

    By the way, RD made me laugh.

    Curioser. Maybe Bill told her to maintain her dignity.

    The idea of Bill telling Hillary that, as his face gets beet-red and he tells Obama to kiss his butt – LOL!

  251. The idea of Bill telling Hillary that, as his face gets beet-red and he tells Obama to kiss his butt – LOL!

    *falls out of chair LMAO* He does do that, doesn’t he?

  252. Thank regency, and madam. I’m so excited!

  253. regency – Yes, he does! And I love him for it, but the man is just NOT the epitome of dignitude. LOL

  254. God, she’s so good. She can just drop a one-liner like that with nothing registering on her face. Play it straight, she does. I love that.

  255. BTD is straining at gnats:

    Here, Clinton did the right thing and Obama did the wrong thing. On Iraq, Obama did the right thing and Clinton did the wrong thing.”

    In 2002 they both gave speeches agaiinst the war. Hillary had to vote on the AUMF, Obama got a free pass and gets to claim 20/20 hindsight.

  256. Everyone stop the post-mortem (slap across the face)!

    I think our Battle Cry for Denver should be:

    “Taz me Bro”!

    PUMA$ Who Donate Rock!

  257. ha! good one Carol!

  258. Madamab – He really isn’t. But he’s my indignant Bubba and I lub him so. He deserves a Big Mac for his efforts.

  259. Hey everybody –

    DON’T FORGET in a few minutes, Mother Riverdaughter on NO WE WON’T RADIO – click above to listen!

  260. Would it be impossible to introduce BTD to logic. His answer to this is that everyone makes mistakes? That is such bullsh(^. Obama wasn’t in the Senate. Stop perpetuating that dumbass myth.

    He knows better. And yet he does that stuff anyway. THat is so childish. “But, but, Clinton…”

    Just admit you were wrong and shut up about it.

  261. masslib, thanks for the full text of Hillary’s comments on FISA. I’ll bet there are many Obots at other blogs who wish those words were spoken by their candidate instead of the candidate that they’ve claimed for months “isn’t really a Democrat.” Nice job, Hillary.

  262. Annabellep – Check your blog – I left a comment for you.

    Where do I go to listen to RD?

  263. Lovely people, I’m gonna need me a link to the radio show. Can anyone direct me?

  264. Never mind, I’m there…

  265. Go up to the post and click!

  266. Fuk Donna!

  267. Who’s talking?

  268. Carol – RD!

  269. I want her contributions paid also, THAT MAKES THE BIGGEST STATEMENT!

    Let’s DO IT!

  270. (waving!)

    Date: July 09, 2008 7:06 PM EDT
    Contact: katiebird
    Amount: $100.44

    I sure hope we get this debt paid down soon. I feel kind of like someone who went crazy at an auction. So, I’m going to pretend I didn’t actually do this….

  271. thank you for the text of Hillary’s speech, masslib. i’m so proud of her!

    does anyone know if Boxer’s speech is available?

  272. katiebird –

    You did it and should be proud!

    $100.44 + $344.16 = $444.60

    Hallelujah, Hallelujah, Hallelujah, Hallelujah, Halle lu jah!

  273. Sassy – check her senate website.

  274. 1) I’ll be shooting her a fifty when I get home tonight.

    2) Following on the heels of my apparently unbreakable tradition of telling yall what I’m having for dinner, I plan to hit the local Greek place tonight and get some tzaziki and tabouleh, and maybe some of the little falafel thingies in pita with cucumbers and kalamata olives. Mmmmmm …

    No ouzo, though. I’m not THAT crazy.

  275. fuzzybear did not get his 2xlt t-shirt (sob)

    Date: July 09, 2008 7:17 PM EDT
    Contact: michael varvel
    xxx nw xxth ave apt x
    gainesville, FL 32601
    Amount: $50.00
    carol are you happy now?

    who is next before fuzzybeargville and carol really begin to lean on you?


  276. I just checked the new URL — http://theconfluence08.com AND it works!

  277. OMG, I am in fangurrrl heaven…RD just did a shout-out to all of us Conflucians. Take a bow, everyone!

    Gotta be a good wife and make dinner for my sick hubby. Later, everyone! [blows kisses]

  278. michael – LOVE YOU BABE!

    fuzzy – $50 and no T makes a grand total of

    $494.60 Total

    Come on let’s get it going!

    PUMA$ Who Donate Rock!

  279. regencyg,

    that was a good suggestion but it wasn’t there. i emailed her a thank you while i was there, though. i also told her i hoped that she’d have the text of her statement on the website soon.

  280. Hi, I am listening to y’all on the radio as I write. Great show!

  281. Sassysenora:

    Dr. Violet Socks has a post up praising a comment you made at Reclusive Leftist.

    She asks an important question: Why don’t you have a blog?

  282. fuzzy is getting ready to lean…HARD?


  283. myiq – i don’t have a blog because i don’t know how to make one. and it would probably be too much work for me. i’m disabled and using the computer is often a huge pain for me.

    thanks for asking. i’m glad you have one.

  284. Sassysenora:

    If I can do it, so can you. I type with two fingers, unless I’m drinking,


  286. real hard real real HARD lean for dollars


  287. Wasserman-Schulz is extremely annoying. Another clueless representative. We need to be “wooed.”

    Woe this:


  288. $494.60 and Holding!

    PUMA$ Who Donate Rock!

    You are making fuzzy Lean Hard!

  289. So for those of us who can’t listen, is this going to be archived and downloadable anywhere … ?

  290. Pat!!! OMG, reallly??? …I think I hogged up Riverdaughter’s time… but I had to give everyone here the props – and what ever else I said – I wanted to personally thank her for this blog & our community … I feel bad I was on so much!

  291. Isn’t “Wasserman-Schultz” the blood test you used to have to take before getting married?

  292. SM: Are you kidding? You were great. Articulate and your thoughts were cohesive. Loved hearing your voice, I know we could be friends if we lived closer. XX00

  293. MS,

    You are spot on. Gore’s endorsement of Obama shows that he is more commeted to sexism than to stopping global warming!!!!What else could it be? Money? Did someone pay him off?

  294. Where is everyone? Did y’all have a party and not invite me?

    I hate when that happens.

  295. If you live in Northern Calif. please join this local Hillary meetup group. We have members from SF, Oak, San Jose, Berkeley etc.
    We are working to ensure a HUGE turnout to Denver and local marches.

  296. DancingOpossum, on July 9th, 2008 at 5:06 pm Said:

    Good for my boy Cardin. I am liking him a lot these days.

    Hey! I am in Cardin district. Today driving around in my neighborhood, I caught three houses with huge Hillary yard signs.

  297. myiq2xu: We are all listening to rd on the radio. Go upthread and log on.

  298. OMG! CNN is about to give back on and it looks like BO has a Hardball on!

  299. Pat, we are the members of the same tribe, I’m tasting your famous cookies and my PUMA cub is begging for more as we speak! We are intertubez pals & life experience sisters & REAL Democrats. I was born & raised in MA, even though I don’t share an IOTA of DNA with the Boston Tea Party rebels, but I guess the rebel spirit is in the water. Or the tea. Or the cocktails!

  300. It doesn’t matter whether Hillary votes to protect the environment. Some men would rather support another man that they know is no good, than to support a woman who shares their better values. We saw that with Edwards. Even though Hillary stands up for the poor and working class both with respect and voting for them on the issues, Edwards endorses Obama, who snobs them. Thank god the people were not deterred. The poor and working class voted for Hillary anyway!!!!!!

  301. Pat Johnson, Jackson said he wanted to cut Obama’s nuts out for talking down to black people. They played it on O’Reilly (yes, I wanted to know what he said so badly that I wasted my time watching) and I almost fell over. He said he wanted to cut Obama’s nuts out…I can’t believe he said that, on or off camera! O’Reilly said that the rest of what Jackson said was even worse and that they were not going to play it…they only played two lines…what could he have said that is WORSE? The media, of course, is trying to make this about how Jackson is just jealous of Obama instead of really thinking about what Jackson perceived as talking down to people. What’s new? All the media, including O’Reilly, carrying Obama’s water for him…

  302. SM: We bonded over the miles. Had we lived closer we would be definitely eating nachos and drinking Irish beer!

  303. Ok, blog post ideas:
    (A) what was the ‘Moment’ for each one of us when we realized for sure that the Precious was not The One for us?
    and (B) let’s organize a south-east meetup, please. Maybe in chattanooga, or in Atlanta (where I live). Can we organize meetups via this blog?

  304. JJ: Thanks for the update. My curiousity was driving me crazy!
    Hope this does not mean Obama garners sympathy as a result.

  305. Toni from Long Island did a great job too!

  306. That was a wonderful broadcast. Laid out the PUMA position perfectly.

  307. Okay – let’s get back to donating! I’m feeling lonely!

    Also, I have up for mostly 38 straight, and I think I am crashing!

    PUMA$ Who Donate Rock!

    Great Broadcast, Can hardly wait to hear the numbers and the news tomorrow!

  308. OMG! Obama knows what we are doing and he is going to try to take credit from his supporters.

    PUMA$ Who Donate Rock!

  309. Fuzzybear is back and leaning hard-if a bear leans against you you move to the key board and give


  310. Pat, if you come to Tampa – break the diet – you’re gonna eat & drink Latino-style, the good part is you’ll sweat like crazy outside so it’s like the calories never entered your body. It’s a secret law of physics, that’s how we stay 1/2 a person.

  311. fuzzy – keep after everyone!

    I have to go rest!

    I will do totals tomorrow morning!

    PUMA$ Who Donate Rock!

    We only have 48 hours to make our point – bring out the friends, the relatives, the enemies!

  312. RD Rocks as always I got to shy to call in felt very unworthy-


  313. FYI, You can donate to pay down the debt on HRC’s website.
    The big box says so and the fine print on the donation page confirms it.
    In case this has already been posted, just consider this a gentle reminder.

  314. Hey folks…I missed RD on the radio. Is there a tivo-like link?

  315. SM – I do believe you will get back that other half once our Hill Gal becomes the President!

    PUMA$ Who Donate Rock!

  316. Jealous my ass. Jackson’s walked the walk for decades. He doesn’t have to apologize to ANYONE for being pissed at Barky.

    I wonder how long until the noise machine spins Jesse Sr. as a covert racist. He’ll be in a white hood right alongside Bill C. in a minute or two if he’s not careful.

  317. Ok, I’m VERY sorry for going off-topic, but I did set up a meetup, for now in Decatur, GA for this weekend:

    Please feel free to email with suggestions/comments on where else we should organize!!! I’d LOVE to meet y’all, it’s so crazy Obama-bot here in GA.

  318. hey fuzzy. I’m back from my conference call. The radio show was great! I’ll definitely go back.

  319. ok carol come on lets give big….For Carol and for our girl Hillary….Madame President


  320. Hi guys, that was fun! But Sheri told me to slow down when I talk and I think it made me talk weirdly. I’m usually a motormouth.

  321. annabellep: Anything you can share with us yet?

  322. Jesse Jr. has dissed his dad re: Obama before.
    He said Obama was a more powerful speaker.
    I guess he doesn’t remember all the people who got tinles up their legs when dad did his “Keep hope alive” speeches.

  323. rd: You were wonderful. Again offering a concise message as to what the PUMA movement represents. Great to hear the voices of both you, SM, and Toni.

  324. Chevalier -OT 2- I loved the “digging dykes of Decatur” garden club always made atlanta pride fun ooh and their hats-


  325. i cannot believe jackson said that! jackson knows BO well enough. to make such a CRUDE, and do I dare say violent comment, to me says that BO is known by those close to him to be rough and crude himself. you just don’t make comments like that about someone who you admire and respect as a leader of hope and change — this is mob style talk — ain’t it??

  326. Jesse would take umbrage at Obama calling out absentee fathers since Jesse himself is one. Remember when that former aide took him to court for child support?

  327. #
    Janis, on July 9th, 2008 at 9:03 pm Said:

    Jealous my ass. Jackson’s walked the walk for decades. He doesn’t have to apologize to ANYONE for being pissed at Barky.

    I wonder how long until the noise machine spins Jesse Sr. as a covert racist. He’ll be in a white hood right alongside Bill C. in a minute or two if he’s not careful.

    Janis, they have already started. On CNN, the jerk Cafferty couldn’t help saying that the comment was obviously racial in tone. And then when he realized that Jackson is also black, he decided that Jackson must be jealous of Obama. He then applauded Obama for not always making everything about race like Sharpton and Jackson. Borger and Cafferty also went on about how they couldn’t believe that any religious figure would use language like Jackson and all I could think is “Did you all miss Rev. Wright’s sermons???”

  328. Hey, this bear keeps leaning on me. Geroff, ya big lump. I’m kicking in.

    July 09, 2008 9:04 PM EDT

    Amount: $100.00

    No t-shirts for us, though. Too bad, so sad.

  329. that Matthew could be a poster child for PUMA…would really make the Obama team squirm!

    ok I just heard the sound of plastic getting pulled from some ones wallet or purse-I know that sound!

    I you can charge a pizza then you can give a few bucks to hillary


    RD you were wonderful- I have so been missing you

  330. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, is there anywhere us latecomers can go to hear RD on blogradio?

  331. sorry about hurricane bertha raining on your holiday

    but if she wasnt going to crawford texas then might as well go harmlessly out to sea


  332. yes you can listen to RD and all the past shows at blog talk radio


  333. Won’t JJ be disappointed when he discovers Obama has no nuts….

    we knew this from the beginning, the Obama cultists are just now discovering this?

  334. Guys, wheres the FISA vote diary?

    A Hillary diary is back on the rec list at cheetopia today, Peter Dao diaried her correct FISA vote ….(duh.)

    – you might want to give him a rec


  335. Just read that Obama, Hillary, and Caroline are all taking the same plane to fly back to NY for another fundraiser. Hope this is not a vp talk while they are up there.

  336. Listening to the radio program now…just heard that the money deadline is 7/11.

    That’s my birthday! And if you were all wondering what you could get for me…I would really like for us to pay of my girl’s debt.

  337. Pat,

    they reported that earlier. Chances are VP talk is happening. It’s easier just to accept that talk is happening and that Hillary doesn’t really want it.

    It’s better than setting yourself up to be disappointed.

  338. Carol, Madamb & Co., I’ll see your donations and throw in a $100. Hillary rocks! She voted her heart today, made a masterful statement on her vote and continues to show the world how *it* should be done.

    I believe very soon we will have more need to ask:

    When can we have Hillary back?!!!!!

  339. regency: I too would be deeply disappointed if she was offered and accepted. This guy is strictly for show. I have a feeling he will like nothing better than to put on a tux for state dinners and have his picture taken. Of course Hillary will be too busy snatching up the salad plates and getting the soup to the table while it is still warm.

    Did you get to see Big Dawg last night?

  340. Sorry, I got sidetracked. Pat, Darragh was on the phone call, so PUMA was representing. I will say this: Mark your calendars for July 19th. And August 26th.

    I think I can tell you this much too: A group of groups, for lack of better terminology (sorry, I’m tired) is organizing an action for July 19th with regard to the Declaration. They are going to change it (somewhat significantly) and call for national action on July 19th, the 160th Anniversary of the Seneca Falls Women’s Rights Convention. I’m sorry I can’t be specific about the action, or the changes, or the groups. I was asked not blog about it until they prepared a press release and made an announcement. But I think I am allowed to say that much in comments here at The Confluence. The organization looks pretty good, though.

  341. annabellep: Thanks. It feels good knowing there is movement going on offside.

  342. oooo, July 19th is a week from Saturday!

  343. I’ve been reading the comments on that Big O diary about Hill’s FISA speech and those Bots are still animals. Sheesh—you can smell the hatred over there.

  344. RD – most excellent post. Your posts help me a lot – my thoughts in print without babbling!

    Opossum is truly Bu$h number two. Certain D party members seem more like rethugs every day.

    I would be very disappointed if Hillary took the VP spot – she would not be in power – just the jerk – and , if we are not successful in thwarting his candidancy, we must make sure he is not elected. But, since it is now obvious he is probably backed by Bu$h et al, they could pull another vote scam. Wow, this is the year the Dems turned into snakes. It will be interesting to find out how many of them turned – then get rid of them.

  345. He then applauded Obama for not always making everything about race like Sharpton and Jackson.

    Asshole. In other words, Barky’s not obviously black. Like Pelosi going on about how bein’ a lady’s just lovely and there’s no sexism she knows of — she’s not like a feminist or anything.

    The establishment loves have-nots who pretend there’s no problem. God DAMN it.

  346. epicurious, on July 9th, 2008 at 9:20 pm Said:

    Won’t JJ be disappointed when he discovers Obama has no nuts….

    During the primaries, James Carvel said that if Hillary gave Obama one of her cojones, they’d both have two.

  347. A little fun today: Some pollster called up and asked “if the election were held today” who would I vote for….Told ’em I’d be writing in Hillary. Guess it’ll probably show up as “undecided” in the results though, eh?

    Also, a couple guys wearing DNC t-shirts showed up at my door this evening. Thought about opening it and arguing with them, but I was pretty sure they wouldn’t listen and I had more important things to do (reading here :)) so I ignored ’em…

    Damn, it feels good not to be manipulated by Obamabots 🙂 You folks rock!

  348. Hillary cannot accept the VP position,she’s too smart for that. And now that Gov. Rendell and the Gov. Strickland(i think) has turned it down, she would just be following others, so it wouldn’t be such a big deal.

    Can you believe that BO voted in favor of FISA.? I can imagine how angry some of his obamanites are really spinning, not knowing how to react. Oh well., faithfull followers..get use to it!1

    Listen to RD tonight, (along with Will, and SM) great conversation and loved hearing how Puma came to be.
    I did a lot of faxing today to all the news outlets andtomorrow will make some calls.

    Goodnight to all..stay strong and positive…

  349. Blogtalk: Obama’s F.I.S.A. Vote

    senator’s own campaign Web site had become a focal point for his supporters to express their displeasure with Mr. Obama’s stance on the bill.

    That was the case again today. Carl from Ft. Worth, Texas, posted a message on Mr. Obama’s Web site this afternoon. The subject line read: “Obama just lost my vote.” He continued:

    “I am disgusted. Obama will NOT receive my vote in November, regardless of whether it means McCain wins (at least HE’S being honest with us). Once at least on this issue.”again, Dems picked the wrong guy in the primaries. Time to leave the party I guess.”

    Blogging on Open Left, Matt Stoller wrote: “It’s interesting to consider how Clinton would have voted were she the nominee, and there’s no way to know now.” But, he added, “kudos to Clinton. It’s ironic so far I suppose that Clinton is of late a more reliable ally than Obama,

    Other comments struck much the same theme. Patrick in Chicago wrote “Can I get my money back this candidate appears to be defective” and Christopher from San Francisco put it simply “Senator Obama, you fail.”


    Armando Llorens, who blogs under the name Big Tent Democrat, at TalkLeft.com took issue with the comments Mr. Obama made yesterday saying that his support for the bill was not politically motivated, but rather represents a genuine policy disagreement with more liberal elements of the Democratic Party:

    “I do not believe Barack Obama. I will go further. I do not want to believe him. Because the alternative is worse. Because if Obama believes the BS he said about the FISA Capitulation bill, then he is not fit to be President. If Barack Obama really believes this about the FISA Capitulation bill, then he is as dangerous as George W. Bush

    Moe Lane at the conservative blog, Red State, appeared to relish Mr. Obama’s stand on the F.I.S.A. bill: “…the netroots went with the equivocator. Barack Obama brazenly lied to them about his intent to filibuster FISA, and they support him anyway. And now they have to go give him some more money, so that he can lie to them some more.”

  350. […] https://riverdaughter.wordpress.com/2008/07/09/dear-donna-if-you-dont-have-time-to-do-it-right/ Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)Destroying Hillary ClintonDeclaration Of IndependenceThe REAL reasons for the Obama “bitter” so-called “controversy”Tonight On The Randi Rhodes Show […]

  351. from that video: it makes me hit the ceiling when they make us PUMAS all about the sexism. The sexism was horrible – but in the larger picture – the one where B0 stole the primaries and now reveals himself as Bush Jr Jr – it’s almost trivial – makes us looking silly.

  352. Guys I’m taking the Donation Totals to the Next Page!

    Join me there!

  353. […] Party legalities and requirements would be too much of a blow to Obama’s ego [H/T to Riverdaughter]: The problem is “there’s a strong feeling” that Sen. Clinton’s delegates need the chance […]

  354. […] Dear Donna, if you don’t have time to do it right… (by riverdaughter at The Confluence) [According] to the Wall Street Journal and the NYTimes [Tuesday]… “ ‘There’s nothing symbolically wrong to putting [Clinton’s] name in [nomination at the convention],’ followed by a scripted withdrawal, said Ms. Brazile. But the spectacle of a rapturous welcome for Sen. Clinton would be irresistible to television and could embarrass Sen. Obama.”… But the thing I want to point out to you, Donna, you dumb@$$, is that a floor fight, complete with “heightened political tensions” could be the best thing that happens to your candidate.  Let him present his case to the superdelegates.  Let them hear from Clinton as well.  Let the best PERSON win.  If it’s Barack Obama, if he suddenly displays the leadership abilities you have said he posesses (and which we have yet to see), then the party will unite behind him and we will go forward together, not altogether happy about it, but much more reconciled than we are now.  But to preclude such an event, to truncate the process is to leave those bad feelings intact and will almost guarantee that the party will continued to be fractured. […]

  355. […] Yeller? A Play in One Mysterious Act. Posted on July 10, 2008 by madamab ***NOTE: Thanks to SM at The Confluence for inspiring this one. As you can see, I’m over my qualms. You are brilliant, […]

  356. […] Dear Donna, if you don’t have time to do it right… (by riverdaughter at The Confluence) [According] to the Wall Street Journal and the NYTimes [Tuesday]… “ ‘There’s nothing symbolically wrong to putting [Clinton’s] name in [nomination at the convention],’ followed by a scripted withdrawal, said Ms. Brazile. But the spectacle of a rapturous welcome for Sen. Clinton would be irresistible to television and could embarrass Sen. Obama.”… But the thing I want to point out to you, Donna, you dumb@$$, is that a floor fight, complete with “heightened political tensions” could be the best thing that happens to your candidate.  Let him present his case to the superdelegates.  Let them hear from Clinton as well.  Let the best PERSON win.  If it’s Barack Obama, if he suddenly displays the leadership abilities you have said he posesses (and which we have yet to see), then the party will unite behind him and we will go forward together, not altogether happy about it, but much more reconciled than we are now.  But to preclude such an event, to truncate the process is to leave those bad feelings intact and will almost guarantee that the party will continued to be fractured. […]

  357. I cannot believe Donna I will not get over it. I am tired. I just had this conversation with my mother. She has finally ODed on the koolaid. I was reading this post and telling her why I am making my father turn over in his grave. I told her “Daddy would be telling me to get his party back. He would have known the fix was in.” Oh well black sheep in my family again. I will not vote Obama no Kool aid for me.

  358. The way to help Hillary now – and to make use of her skills – is to pay down her debt, and support her in a role in Obama’s administration.

    She would be a great Secretary of State or even a Supreme Court justice, and well qualified for either.

    If McCain wins, there is nothing in it for Hillary. Nothing.

    Above all we should pay down her debt, because it’s embarrassing to see it talked about in the news all the time. It suggests some level of mismanagement.

  359. What a joke you all are. And what an embarrassment to womankind. Politics of the “I’m going to hold my breath until I turn blue if I don’t get what I want!” school. I would be really upset about this if I didn’t know that you are all really Republicans. And this post will disappear after about 15 minutes, as have all my others. You seem to have a VERY high number of spam posts, which should be reserved for physical threats, hate speech, etc. But this is, as we all know, how Republicans operate.

  360. This woman is just so typical of an O-bot. They follow this moron blindly and have no idea of what he stands for I mean for her not even know about FISA is just a crime.

    I know how you feel garychapelhill. I am a gay Latina and have been descriminated against my entire life and to be called a racist because of my choice of presendial candidate is just outrageous. I’ve been walking picket lines since the sixties and these dupes have the nerve to call us racists?

    I’m proud of you and how you handled the entire situation. I doubt that I could be so civil.

    Puma Power

  361. “For those who wish to stay together in a long term commitment to the ideals and principles that Hillary Clinton has spent a lifetime promoting, http://Together4Us.com offers access for activists, funders, students, policy-makers and ordinary people to come together in support of each other and their goals for America. Please come to our website and join, use the code below to put our linked logo on your website and distribute our message and this code to all your network. Spread the word. We will be happy to put up a reciprocal link, your own co-branded web page on our site, or your own blog. Thanks so much, Gretchen Glasscock, Together4Us”

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