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Independence Day

Oh, for Heaven’s sakes, now we’ve got Barack Obama behaving like Moses laying down yet another commandment for women to heed. In his recent interview with Relevant, a Christian magazine, the Dauphin of Democracy says:

prohibitions on late-term abortions must contain “a strict, well defined exception for the health of the mother.”

Obama then added: “Now, I don’t think that ‘mental distress’ qualifies as the health of the mother. I think it has to be a serious physical issue that arises in pregnancy, where there are real, significant problems to the mother carrying that child to term.”

But only last year, in it’s majority Supreme Court opinion on the partial birth aborthion law (Actually, intact Dilation and Extraction), Justice Anthony Kennedy wrote this:

“While we find no reliable data to measure the phenomenon, it seems unexceptionable to conclude some women come to regret their choice to abort the infant life they once created and sustained,” Justice Kennedy wrote, alluding to the brief. “Severe depression and loss of esteem can follow.”

Given those stakes, the justice argued, “The state has an interest in ensuring so grave a choice is well informed.”

So, let me get this straight. If you get a late term abortion for medical reasons, you will feel suicidal about it in the future. But if you feel suicidal about being pregnant, under no circumstances should you get a late term abortion. Maybe we should ask Andrea Yates for her expert opinion on the subject of regret, self-esteem and depression? Come to think of it, *she* didn’t have much choice in the matter. Her husband/protector and pastor went against the best advice of her doctors who told them she should never get pregnant again as it would make her post-partum psychosis worse. Seven years later, five children dead and a brain permanently damaged by untreated disease, she’s serving out the rest of her life on a psych ward. Nice going, Mr. Yates.

Thank goodness we have all these guys to protect us from the consequences of our rash decisions. We should not trouble our underdeveloped consciences about the fact that the presumptuus nominee and a justice of the Supreme Court contradict themselves. For the women with medical emergencies that just happen to fall one day into that late term stage, it hardly matters. Their options are now limited by the philosophical and moral musings of two men who could be discussing the number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin.

Can someone tell me where is the woman who speaks for us??

Fine. We’ll look after ourselves from now on guys. We PUMAs will form a new government “laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to [us] shall seem most likely to effect [our] Safety and Happiness” You just sit there in your leather wing-backs in front of the roaring fire and muse philosophically and we’ll do what we need to do. We wouldn’t want the brutality and sorrows of life to affect your mental state.

So much for Obama protecting our right to choose. Can we have Hillary back now?

Our Sister Independence Day Readings:

And don’t forget to Kiss Him Goodbye.  Remember, it only takes 500,000 of us at $20.08 a head to retire Hillary’s outstanding campaign debt to her vendors.  It looks like sisters are doing it for themselves.:

129 Responses

  1. This story sickened me. Obama is wrong on so many levels. I am sickened that a Democratic candidate for President is now using women’s reproductive health to win votes. How did we get here? It’s also clear by his comments, this isn’t a man who believes in mental health parity. This is just sad.

    Here’s what Hill has been up to. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/03/us/politics/03clinton.html?_r=1&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&adxnnlx=1215174066-c22jNULrUPXe8+LS8p+n1w

  2. Oh dear, what are the Obama trolls going to use to blackmail us with now? Will they have to go back to Obama camp for new instructions?

  3. Also, “late term” doesn’t mean anything. It doesn’t mean third trimester. Indeed, any point after 14 weeks could be considered late term. As I said in the book post last night, we came so close to ending the patriarchy(with the most pro-choice candidate we’ve ever come close to nominating), and now we are stuck with this regressive empty suit. How can we possibly be asked to go backwards?

  4. masslib,

    The really scary thing is the way things are going, we could easily have a catastrophic economic meltdown before the election. Bush could go beyond his “covert ops” to open war with Iran. Oil and food prices are spiraling out of control. Will ordinary Americans be able to heat their houses next winter?

    And this is what the Democrats are offering: An inexperienced candidate who can’t even keep his stories straight. We need a new declaration of independence.

  5. I once heard a talk by one of these anti-“partial birth” abortion guys give a talk about the legislation in which he never said the word “mother.” He talked about the baby. It was as if this “baby” were disconnected from anything except the “womb” and I wanted to throw up. But what gets me is, these guys act like women are just out there waiting to be 8 months pregnant before they say, hey, I would like to get rid of this fetus. These types of abortions, if they even exist, since they aren’t really abortions per se, are so rare and done in such extraordinary circumstances, that they are a non-issue. It’s a way to put a curb on abortion, get it upheld by the Sup. Ct. so they can go at Roe. The truth is, Roe, by having a trimester system, said the state could legislate for this, because it is a balance test. What about Roe doesn’t Mr. Constitutional Professor of Law understand?

    Yes, we need Hillary!

  6. And then he has the fucking nerve to beat you over the head with RVW.


  7. Good Morning, Riverdaughter. This is an extremely thought provoking post: That Andrea Yates story always makes my head spin.

    When I was a little girl (4 years old) one of the mothers in our neighborhood put all of her kids and herself in a car in the garage and gassed them all to death. My mom explained this to me (did I say I was 4 years old) by saying that the mom was just overwhelmed by having so many kids.

    At the time I was the oldest of 4 kids (with the 5th coming soon) and the possibility of maternal craziness always seemed like direct a threat to me (Honey, be good or….). I mean I thought of that story every single day since I walked past that house on my way to school.

    The child in me was actually relieved to learn that it takes more than over excited children for the mom to go that far. It takes a serious mental illness.

    Obama with yesterday’s remarks didn’t just make it clear (again) that he doesn’t truly support choice but, he also made it clear that he doesn’t value mental health as he values physical health.

    So, after this can we trust him to create a National Health Plan that gives parity to Mental Health? I doubt it.

  8. There is literally no excuse for this guy. Every time he opens his mouth Unity gets kicked in the chest. He is NOTHING like Hillary. Now there are more than substantive differences between them and she sucks a whole lot less.

    Can we please have Hillary back?

  9. PUMA and the Spirit of July 4th

    The Declaration of Independence has a short passage which should inspire PUMAs to continue fighting…
    It fits the current situation perfectly……

    Also, an ANNOUNCEMENT…

    InsightAnalytical (me) will be on the Blog Bunker program on Sirius Satellite channel Indie Talk on Friday, July 11 at 5:30 pm ET.

    It would have been in studio in NYC if I were still living in Central Jersey near riverdaughter, but now that I am in NM, it will be by phone…

    PS–please add InsightAnalytical to your blogroll, rd!!

  10. It seem to me, as always. Obama has an exception an out. Sound like the DC gun law. wasn’t there an exception there also. And Iraq and getting the troops out …..with the exception of ……etc….etc.

  11. […] distress’ qualifies as the health of the mother. Posted on July 4, 2008 by bluelyon Read this post by riverdaughter and then come […]

  12. “So, after this can we trust him to create a National Health Plan that gives parity to Mental Health?”

    No. Campskunk noted several months ago that Hillary was the only candidate calling for mental health parity in her health care plan. I think this lays to rest any hope that Obama would support it.

  13. chimera, (nodding)

    My sister-in-law was forced to carry a dead fetus for a month (before she finally miscarried) because the doctor wouldn’t give her an abortion. There was no question the fetus was gone — no movement, no development.

    The experience was so terrible that when she told me about it I assumed it happed the year before — the events were THAT immediate and vivid to her. But it was actually 15 years before.

  14. Looks like it’s time for another SD writing campaign. What say they now on Roe? He ain’t protecting that either. We’ve got two canddiates who could give a sh*) about women. What now?

    Yep, time to start writing again.

  15. Katiebird,

    Can we trust him to complete a sentence without having to backtrack? This election has to be the worst clusterf*&k I’ve ever seen. Is this the Democrat’s contribution to the shock doctrine?

  16. Personally? I am shaking with rage. My thoughts here.

  17. BB, the TV was on at my parents’ house yesterday and Obama was talking about his Education Plans (which I think might be a dangerous topic for him….)

    He was in full Lecture Mode. Saying,

    We Must Start….
    We don’t seem to….

    I don’t remember the specifics but it was so condescending. So, BLAMING. So Degrading — I can’t believe anyone will vote for him.

  18. Having full control over our bodies is a fundamental right whose erosion no freedom loving person should allow.

    We must recall this presumptuous nominee. I am not sure what the Democratic party will even pretend to stand for after he is allowed to wield it.

  19. katiebird – yes! it’s that lecturing tone that he uses that drives me crazy. Good Gawd – we’ve already had 7 1/2 years of being lectured to by a moron How many times have we heard “What the American people need to understand… ” followed by GWB’s vision of How It Must Be?

    I can’t do it any more!

  20. And remember according to him having an abortion is between a woman and her minster and husband (poor sweeties can’t make an important decision by their lonesome.) If you don’t have a minister or husband then you need a permission slip from Senator Obama.

  21. Ok, I went back and checked cheetopia again and I see not one diary or FP post that references Obama’s position curtailing women’s reproductive rights and defining women’s health. Who the hell are these people? How can they pretend they are somehow progressive Democrats if they pay no attention to an issue as serious as this?

  22. What is National NARAL saying about this?

  23. masslib, Who there would have the nerve to mention this? It would be a double-whammy: “Women’s business” AND “Obama dissatisfaction”

  24. Mawminc,

    I’d imagine they’re saying, “Oops.”

    Actually, if I recall what I read sometime last night they’re not saying that at all. Check the TalkLeft thread on the topic from yesterday.

  25. bluelyon — wow. that’s a powerful post. I commented.

  26. Gloria: Done!

  27. Oh, yeah, I commented Bluelyon!

  28. Thanks everyone. Everytime I think BO can’t get any worse, he does.

  29. Wait, my bad.

    NARAL is indeed upset @ TalkLeft.

  30. regency, I don’t see anything from NARAL on this at Talk Left.

  31. I read this and hardly know what to say. Every day, the more he talks, it becomes more and more blatantly evident how completely unqualified this person is to become president.

  32. Sorry, Masslib, must have mis-read. Maybe we should write them and ask what they have to say about their endorsee? They were so enthusiastic before. I wonder what the chapters would say?

  33. bluelyon, did you move your blog from blogger to wordpress? We might need to update your link in the blogroll.

  34. This is another Obama. W O R M. And of course finding to way too late.

  35. I cannot stress how much I hate that so many people are buying the disinformation campaign that PUMA is a GOP front. All we advocate is not voting for Obama, based on principled grounds. My God, there’s already claims that we’re all just ratfucking trolls.

    For some damn reason, I can’t comment at TL anymore. I swear it’s a case of mistaken identity because I carefully paid attention to the site rules and there are several other people who clearly abuse the rules and they still can comment (everyone from squeaky to Jgarza). I e-mailed Jeralyn several weeks ago and she has not replied. It’s infuriating!

  36. But, but – Roe vs Wade was his ace in the hole! We know
    cuz he told the media who told us

  37. To add to my previous comment: Do they not realize that abstaining from voting or leaving the top of the ticket blank is an option? God.

    What a way to start Independence Day.

  38. Has anybody checked Obama’s voter id card recently? I do not think he’s part of the Democratic Party anymore.

  39. Can we get him charged for “practicing medicine without a license” – something else he has no qualifications for!

  40. Yesterday, Obama had to call a “do over” press conference to explain What He Really Meant when he talked about Iraq in the previous press conference.

    Please, Barack, go back to the Senate, develop some humility and learn a few things. You’re not really qualified to be a Senator either, but since you already are, how about trying to do that job with something resembling competence before running for another job you’re not qualified for? Then the citizens of IL can decide whether to re-elected you in 2010.

  41. bluelyon-Your letter was incredibly powerful. As a therapist working with people with mental illness, I am absolutely appalled at Obama’s lack of knowledge and compassion. Everyday I wonder how he has the nerve to open his mouth!

    Rise Hillary Rise!

  42. Just Say No Deal/PUMA needs to do a press release to shut these people up.

    This stuff gets so old.

  43. A Democrat pissing on all the constituencies that gave him the nomination in the first place: Is this what “moving to the center” looks like?

    Why is a move to the center always a move to the right?

    At this point I’m so confused about this guy. Who is he and what is the platform he’s running on?

    This guy is becoming more and more Leonard Zelig.

  44. Ladies and Gentlemen –

    We are now in triple digits with a grand total of


    Congratulations everyone, let’s keep our eyes on the ball!

    PUMA$ Who Donate Rock!

    Who’s ready to Donate and drive that total up?

  45. SO…. now he is a psychiatrist and medical doctor as well.. hey not just a messiah but a superdoctor as well..
    Speaking as a registered nurse nationally certified in mental health nursing with years of experience ; including attempting to gently hold onto a woman who was giving birth in a quiet room because she was schizophrenic and couldn’t be on her meds while pregnant because it would harm the baby ; who was having a protracted psychotic and paranoid episode brought on by lack of medication and the pregnancy ; who didnt know what was happening to her and tried to crawl under the sink in the bathroom to get away from what was in her belly ; before we could get her to the birthing suite , and who finally did give birth and she and the baby were fine ,but there was never any question as to whether she was going to keep the baby ; there was some question as to whether she became pregnant by means of rape , as is not unfortunately uncommon in the severely or profoundly mentally ill .
    Speaking from that experience as well as far too many others , including suicidal post traumatic teen rape victims ,
    I can tell you this man has an arrogance that is only seen in narcissistic personality disorder . he obviously has no idea regarding this issue, the complexities and variables involved , the solutions and the compassionate care that is needed .
    By adressing this issue in this manner he displays that he suffers from an extreme lack of experience in this area and is getting advice that is just as ill advised if not worse .

  46. Obama has produced so many “WORM”s that it’s time for the Democrats to go fishing for another candidate. (My choice would be Sen. Clinton)

  47. BB, really? (shaking my head) I guess anything goes for him.

  48. MABlue, it seemed to me that Obama was always at the center (at best) so his only choice was a move to the right.

  49. {{swanspirit}}

    I think Obama is incapable of feeling our pain. For him it’s, “Feel my pain and I’ll ignore yours”?

  50. I gave a little extra. Does anyone know someone in Hillary’s campaign that can let us know how the fund drive is going.

    Contribution Details
    Date: July 04, 2008 9:45 AM EDT
    Contact: XXXXXXXXX
    Coral Springs, FL 33071
    Amount: $35.08

  51. Carol, my check for $20.08 went off to Friends of Hillary yesterday.

  52. I remember hearing once that when they start in on the abortion thing you shoul demand to know what penalty they suggest for breaking the law. They never want a punishment for the mother , just the doctor. by exposing that you can totally see the patronizing, patriarchal nature of these bans. pregnant women are cast as “victims”. They also know that the public would never accept any of these laws (the majority don’t anyway) if the woman were to be criminilized for having an abortion. Its a lot easier to demonize doctors who are often cast as elitists and deserving of comeuppance…

  53. Carol-I just donated over at Heidi Li’s site.


  54. @ Katiebird,

    You’ve highlighted a nuance of Obama that is rarely put into words but is a submliminal message in all of his speeches. We’re supposed to feel guilty that we haven’t done enough, obligated to take care of the mess and dissatisfied with our country. Not to sound too stars and stripes but I’ve done my share and more of public service (two term school committee), donated to many causes, walked in many anti war marches and supported many initiatives. I will not be guilted into voting for him or anyone. His message is negative and condescending. I’m proud of myself, my county and my fellow citizens. {{ cue Kate Smith singing “God Bless America”}}.

  55. KB:

    There is no such place at the center. What’s the center’s ideology. This is simply some non-sense the DC elite class created to force Dems to adopt Rightwing positions.

    Obama has no core and that has always been my problem with him. He has never ever taken a strong position on anything.

    As I’ve said so often, a candidate being worshipped by Ezra Klein and Andrew Sullivan at the same time is very disturbing.

    Liberal always thought Obama was their guy, Conservatives always though Obama was their guy, “Centrists” and “Moderate” always thought Obama was their guy.

    Go figure. Talk about nailing jell-o on the wall.

  56. I’ll donate later today. I’m having some trouble with my card. *sigh*

    I have no idea when they’ll release their fundraising numbers.

  57. {gnashing teeth} Obama and his minions have absolutely no clue what it is like to be a real woman in the real world. I read that and heard behind the words the old baloney that women tend to be overwhelmed by hormones and can’t think right so we menfolk will take care of all that thinking. {bangs head against keyboard}

    Back to the future? What was that old T-Shirt I had? “Keep your laws off my body.”

    (I think the hormone testosterone causes a LOT more problems than any hormones I may once have had)

  58. Unity America PUMA style.

    We are about to change the landscape of the democratic party and the history of our country. Today Democrats,Independents and Republicans will meet in the center and UNITE in two historical causes. Today we end the democratic stronghold on the most qualified candidate to lead this great country; Sen Clinton and declare Independence from a party thats without leadership and no longer for the people. Donate to retire Senator Clinton’s debt and Green Rain 4 McCain. Sen McCain has shown respect and admiration for Hillary and her supporters he’s extended and olive branch and willing to sit down and discuss the issues important to us. Hes done more than expect our votes hes tried to earn them. Lets help the McCain campaign donate $5.44 or more please include the .44 to represent Hillary’s supporter.
    Lets Make History Together

  59. Fantastic I-Day post, RD! Great catch on the abortion angle. We’d already done a great job of diffusing their abortion weapon, and Obama’s just helping turn off more pro-choice Democrats… Nice work bringing up Andrea Yates. Tat story still sticks in a lot of minds for the mindboggle-ness of it.

  60. I personally always thought that the state of Texas brought charges against the wrong member of the Yates family. How in the hell could anyone leave a psychotic spouse home with 5 children? Sounds criminally negligent. Where’s Jack McCoy when you need him?

  61. $20.08, done. Let’s keep it rolling! I can’t wait to see what happens when her debt is gone and she’s not beholden to the DNC/Obama.

  62. I tried donating twice $50.44 to Mccain. There system gave me an error twice. Must be getting some donors.

  63. Chatblue, I agree completely. He should’ve been negligent in some way. How he didn’t at least come under a civil suit boggles the mind.

  64. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-campaign-04-jul04,0,1857082.story

    FARGO, N.D.—Barack Obama struggled Thursday to explain his plan to end the war in Iraq, calling a rare do-over news conference to insist that he was not softening his campaign pledge to withdraw all combat troops within 16 months of becoming president.

    “That position has not changed. I have not equivocated on that position. I have not searched for maneuvering room with respect to that position,” the presumptive Democratic nominee said.

    In his initial remarks on an airport tarmac here, Obama had emphasized caveats that seemed to suggest his timetable might slip, saying he would “refine” his policies after he consults with U.S. generals on a trip to Iraq he plans to make later this summer.

  65. In answer to mawm, I’m pretty sure National NARAL is saying “give me some more of that Obama tootsie pop. Just one more lick! We’ll get to the center!”

    They haven’t been pro-choice in over three years.

  66. MABlue, I agree — I should have put “center” in quotes because I think that it’s always been a code for “I’m hiding my real feelings, guess what they are”

    And the Ezra Klein thing…. He was actually the first blogger that I heard spouting “The Rulez” sh*t. And it was on that very first Rulez post that I first saw a thread to Hillary. Which is STILL there. Even though I emailed Ezra to tell him about it.

  67. Carol, here is a little more

    Date: July 04, 2008 10:12 AM EDT
    Contact: lynn
    Tucson, AZ 85716

    Amount: $20.08

  68. Well, I was disgusted by the daily kos ignoring this issue. I wrote bout it:


    I spit on that regressive site.


    I caught a snippet of him on CNN talking about no-child left behind. He was absolutely rambling and could not complete a thought or sentence before he started another. He was absolutely rambling. No wonder he would not accept a joint town-hall style appearance with McCain.

    Is there any update on retiring Hillary’s debt?

    That NY Times editorial is something. But we PUMA’s knew those things all along. PUMA is Independence Day 2008!

  70. felizarte, I think that might have been the lecture I heard yesterday. I thought it was rambling AND insulting…

  71. Well, we couldn’t really afford it, but I gave my $20.08 anyway. It felt GREAT!

  72. Date: July 4, 2008 3:11 AM EDT

    Las Vegas, NV. 89103

    Amount: 20.08

  73. Good Morning Everyone!

    Okay, if I hear one person say again that Hill and BO are virtually the same on issues–Naw, I don’t think anyone can say that anymore. the amazing thing is that all along we all saw this coming.

    i think the deafening silence from the cheeto is the stuper of realization. they need to e-mail amongst themsleves and come up with a collective opinion because they are not as courageous as we are.

    Katiebird–I had NEVER heard that story about our neighbors!!! (wasn’t born yet..) I can’t imagine the terror you went through as a child with that hanging over your head. My go, my mom had 8 kids in 10 years! Talk about crazy-making!

    Andrea Yates. Enough said. I will bow my head and cry now.

    Donated on behalf of myself and my sons, Truman and Quincy:

    Contribution Details
    Date: July 04, 2008 10:21 AM EDT
    Contact: Joaniebone
    Seattle, WA
    Amount: $40.16

  74. I donated at NQ–$25 each to Hillary and McCain.

    Puma Power!

  75. whoops! hello everyone–here I am! katie, could you delete that personal info before the obots get me?

    its early here, and i’m a moron.

  76. My check is also off to McCain.

  77. bostonboomer,

    katie is on a walk, can you delete that for me-or any other moderator present? thanks!

  78. Joanie, what a great way to say that. They aren’t as courageous as we are. Neither are they as consistent.

  79. I can’t believe that he has this view. If the mother is my wife, or my sister, or my daughter, I’ll make it damn certain that she is well both mentally and physically.
    For me, HELL YES! Mental distress qualified as the health of the mother.

  80. Just below the surface of Obama’s hit on mental health parity is that old standby of his, disdain for women. Implicit in the notion that mental health issues should not be considered health issues creating an exception to the abortion law is the message that those coniving, tricksy, wiley, women might fake their mental illness to skirt the law.

    Mr. Hopey-change, worshipped by all fauxgressives, is the most eggresious sexist in public life. How can he possibly be the presumptive nominee?

  81. Happy Independence Day, everyone!

    Contribution Details
    Date: July 04, 2008 10:40 AM EDT
    Contact: jules
    Amount: $20.88

  82. Oh, what the hell was I thinking, *egregious*. I haven’t had breakfast yet so I must have eggs on the brain.
    Happy Fourth everyone. I’m going to make my retire the debt contribution right now.

  83. BB? Thank you!!!

    Have my part-time job today—-back later, my PUMA Patriot family!

  84. Andrea Yates was the first thought I had when I read about Barack’s latest stoopidity. He’s such an @ss, I can’t even believe he’s gotten where he is. Dr. Dean and Ms. Pelosi, I’m appalled at your actions putting this idiot on a pedestal.

  85. masslib,

    I can’t understand why there are any women still blogging at the Orange Cheeto.

  86. Our area Obama campaign manager & his wife are both elites and strong Catholics. I used to wonder about this. Wonder no longer; I think those two did their homework and knew his abortion stance all along.

  87. Contribution Details
    Date: July 04, 2008 10:53 AM EDT
    Contact: Janicen
    Midlothian, VA
    Amount: $20.08

    Happy Independence Day everyone!

  88. Have any of you received the “I OWN MY VOTE” e-mail ? When try to sign the pledge it says Query failed.

  89. bostonboomer, on July 4th, 2008 at 10:52 am Said:

    I can’t understand why there are any women still blogging at the Orange Cheeto.

    Oh, boston, doncha know? They are “post-sexism”.

  90. good morning folks sorry fuzzybear was up last night and am happy to report that I made my independence day donation @ 1216 am last night ($44.44 and it is already in carols total brought over from the previous thread.)

    carol is on vacation in california but is popping in from time to time to give us the totals(she cant resist she says.) Lets keep her busy every site is pushing the suggested $ 20.08 for July forth but give what you can.

    letts keep the ball rolling….


  91. I smell a party! You guys rock!!
    I just emailed HRC’s campaign site asking for an update on the debt. I’m hoping they’ll post the information.

  92. Hope they post it on “The confluence”.

  93. long time lurker-first time commenting.

    I, too just donated my 20.08 to Hillary.

    I wish they had a comment feature to attach to your contributions because I would have added with my $20 bucks, that I will not be joining the new unity party. I am a Democrat and my vote will go only to those who support Democratic values. In light of the misogynistic beat-down that was delivered to Hillary I will be voting Green.

    That is a 3fer as far as I’m concerned if Cynthia McKinney gets the nod. I will be voting to uphold Democratic values, voting for a woman and when I’m called a racist, I can say F*ck off.

  94. Carol & Co.
    RD and the rest of you wonderful regulars, inspire me everyday, you all ROCK!!!

    Contribution Details
    Date: July 04, 2008 11:01 AM EDT
    Contact: Laney
    bellingham, WA 98229
    Amount: $20.08

  95. One of my daughters discovered a serious problem later in a pregnancy and moved from Kansas to Minnesota, taking advantage of the Mayo Clinic to figure out a solution. There was none. She had to go through labour to deliver a dead little girl, and even though the care was wonderful, no one told her so many things – among the surprises, that she would be overflowing with milk for the child she buried. I don’t know who the women are that go through months of pregnancy to capriciously change their minds near the end of term. These situations often involve health problems of mothers and babies that can’t be resolved favourably. And often this is heartbreaking to parents who want a child and who would risk a lot to get to term if there were a chance things would be okay. These are real world problems that Senator Clinton was aware of and understood. I don’t think Obama has a clue, and I don’t think he ever will.

  96. “These types of abortions, if they even exist,” —-exist to save the life of the mother, or to remove a dead fetus, or an ancephalic one, etc. My dad was a doctor, and when this first came up as a political talking point, he was livid, saying first that it was a non-issue, very rare, and only done in extremity, and 2nd, that it was nobody’s business but the woman’s. How some fool like Obama can assume to know better than a woman what she is going through, and how legislators can presume to know medicine better than doctors—–makes me crazy.

    But I am not surprised at Obama’s position on this–he will I assume in the coming weeks disavow every remotely liberal position he can–all of them the jetsam he tosses overboard in his effort to please the right wing voters he is after.

    Anyone have a pool going on when he tosses the rest of the progressive issues we find most important? Maybe we should have a list up somewhere and just line through them on the date he does, to point Obama apologists to when they tell us they are still hopeful.

  97. Amen to all comments. Only recently (now that I am not always turning off newscasts) have I heard just how shallow and uninformed Obama sounds. It just floors me…and I had thought folks were just being overly negative about him on our side. Whew! Was I ever wrong. He is truly frightening.

    ps: I donated about 10min ago @ Heidi Li’s site $20.08…even though I just paid for a new roof on my house and am pretty tapped out.

  98. This just infuriates me to no end. Anyone want to wave Roe v. Wade in my face now? This guy is NOT a real Democrat. His position on this issue is SO dangerous because this is precisely one of the erosions that is coming down the pipelines. Now that we know he supports this kind of erosion, who can trust him to pick Supreme Court or federal justices that are any better than John McCain? I was never worried about McCain overturning Roe v. Wade, but I was worried about him appointing justices at the federal level who will erode choice. But guess what? So will Obama. I am not voting for McCain-light.

    And as a matter of principle, he has totally undermined the arguments for mental health parity. This is one of the things that Hillary was fighting for and that a lot of other health advocates (including myself) have been working towards. Progressive states have been working to make it a requirement to have insurance companies offer mental health parity benefits. Now that the Democratic nominee is saying, “It’s all in your heads, sweeties” it seems unlikely we will be seeing those reforms. Andrea Yates is a great example for what can go wrong in such situations.

    The only two people who should be guaranteed involvement in abortion cases are the woman and her doctor. That’s it. The government has NO business whatsoever telling women what they can and can’t decide, and has no business telling doctors that their medical judgment doesn’t matter.

  99. Can we put together some kind of a call to action through JSND for Monday? If JSND could send out an email with an action list, we could, each and every one of us, call the DNC, NOW, Emily’s List, NARAL, and the Women’s Caucus on Monday and demand that they stop pushing a candidate who supports an erosion of choice. Groups like NOW should feel really stupid right now for falling for this fraud.

    Also, Tim, if you are reading this, wouldn’t Ms. Pappas at NY NOW be a perfect person to try and pull in on this? She was willing to buck national NOW and release that scathing statement about Ted Kennedy’s endorsement several months ago, and she may be willing to do it again, especially since this issue is so fundamental to what everyone pretends women’s rights are about…

    Is there someone at JSND who I can email to suggest this?

    This is important because if we can get some attention it will let women and like-minded men everywhere know that if they are falling in line because of Roe v. Wade, they shouldn’t bother!

  100. Is this actually a sign that the Obama campaign has realized that women voters are not going to “get with it” and/or “fall in line”? Have they now decided to go after the religious voters (who have not yet been smitten withy McCain) to try to make up for the votes? Things that make you go hmmmm………

  101. Elliot Lake, exactly! Late term abortions are SO rare, they are in nearly every case performed because the life of the mother is at risk. So this is really just a wedge issue that is used to politicize abortion. It isn’t used electively.

  102. Date: July 04, 2008 11:26 AM EDT
    Contact: sharon
    MI xxxx
    Amount: $20.08
    First contribution I’ve made since started living on student loans

  103. We are rolling – keep the donations comming – JJ Obama is not McCain Lite he is Bush Heavy or tacking that way. His “I would rather win” than be right what an ammoral know nothing backstabbing flip-flopping under-the-bus underhanded dirty dealing self…

    Sorry for the tiraid this morning is about Retiring OUR campaign debt. Think of the message it will send to the world if after suspending her campaign she still “brings in the bling.”

    Even the DNC will have to listen. Debt Free in Denver!

    PUMA’s who give rock


  104. Women are not cows. Who care about mental distress of a pregnant cow. As long as the cow is physically strong enough to deliver the calf, the farmer is happy.

    I’m still shaking my head in disbelief that the Democrat Nominee has this view. And NARAL endorsed this man?!

    Oh, how I miss Hillary.

  105. Happy Independence Day, PUMAs!!

    Contribution Details
    Date: July 04, 2008 11:39 AM EDT
    Contact: SophieL
    Newtown, CT
    Amount: $20.08

    Free Hillary! We Can Do It!!

  106. People – we gotta keep the donadrive going !!!

    C’MON – we can DO THIS!!!

    Contribution Details
    Date: July 04, 2008 11:44 AM EDT
    Contact: TM
    1/2 a Vote & 1/2 Person Lane
    Tampa, FL
    Amount: $20.08

    Let get some coffee in me – then I’ll answer about this top & upthread.

    KEEP THE DONATIONS GOING PLEASE – we are sending a strong message if we do it alll in one day! $20.08

  107. bostonboomer, Said:

    I can’t understand why there are any women still blogging at the Orange Cheeto.

    Actually, I think we should organize a counter-professional-blogger day at the Big O (and others). Y’know, like an invasion using the old shift work, tag team tactic. Let them know it’s not too late, we still have a chance to put forward the GOOD candidate, that the convention is yet to come.

    PUMA that I am (and I am), I can support party unity–under Hillary, that is.

  108. Seems all that we have in Nobama is a preacher – and a preacher who changes his story day after day based on what he’s gonna get out of it!!!

    What are the elites gonna do now? Because he’s gonna make more missteps and gonna flip flop more and more. They’re gonna see that he can’t win. Are they still gonna nominate him??????

    DONATED $20.08 over at Hillary.com !!!!!!!

  109. Fortunately, I had only contributed $2,265 to HRC’s primary, so I had the room for $20.08 more this morning.:


    DATE: July 4, 2008 11:16 AM EDT
    Philadelphia, PA
    AMOUNT: $20.08

    But one thing: I was going to contribute via clicking on that poster that’s making the rounds, including in this very post, but it pointed to a new and unfamiliar domain: “hillarycampaign2008.com”.

    It struck me as somewhat suspicious. (I’m not saying that it WAS suspicious, but just that I declined to go further down that route…)

    I simply went to the old official HRC site.

  110. Okay – I’m onto the next post with the totals!

    You guys are doing great!

    PUMA$ Who Donate Rock!

  111. If you click on the poster in the upper left corner of this post, it will take you to the correct site.

  112. TonyRz – Bless your heart!!!!! Thank You for your generous donations! Also, I agree – official Hillary site is OK. (I think HireHeels and Heidi Li’s too.)

  113. How long until all of his faux-feministe supporters start spinning this? Anything up at Pantygon yet? (Sorry, cheap shot.)

  114. OMG!


    I knew it the moment I read about his Reagan worship & Bill Clinton diss. No self-respecting Democrat would utter those words.

    MENTAL ILLNESS??? Now who is going define what “mental illness” is? The government? Obama?

    OOooh I’m too mad right now – I can only say No Deal! We can’t allow this DINO to take control of our party.

    Where are the Feminists who supported this jackass?? What are they going to say now?? If they have any sense of virtue to the cause, they should publically RETRACT their endorsement.

    Where’s NARAL? Where’s Amanda Marcotte & Pam Spaulding? Camille Paglia?

    You endorsed a man who will sell out our uteruses just to get elected. How do you feel now?

    I know how I feel! This PUMA feels GREAT that I stood with a candidate who championed women’s causes BEFORE she became a mother & a lawyer & a senator & and the BEST presidential candidate in 2008.

    F-K Obama, F-k the Democrats who support him and F-k the media that cradle him. PUMAS can make a difference – we are only 1 month old and look how far we’ve come!


    MY UTERUS & my daughter’s uterus

  115. “Dauphin of Democracy” …oh, my aching sides!!! you are too wicked, RD!

    i sure hope one of our gifted PhotoShoppers doesn’t whip up a picture of The One™ in leggings and a brocade jacket and sword.

    and the pout. don’t forget the pout!!

  116. Hilarious, Campskunk. I too chuckled at that. Too true, and for that reason, so funny.

  117. http://blogs.abcnews.com/legalities/2008/07/obama-sounding.html

    Haven’t read all the comments yet, but found this link to a commentary by Jan Crawford Greenberg at Corrente (h/t Andersen), where she notes that the only members of the SCOTUS who agree with Obama’s take on “mental distress” aka mental illness are–ta dah!!!!–Scalia and Thomas!!!!!!!

    Wowser and yikes, etc., etc. I am well and truly scared of the presumptive Dem nominee.

    And I cannot vote for McCain. What to do, what to do?

    Over at TL, a commenter said Obama is considering making his acceptance speech in an NFL stadium. Someone else mentioned afternoon thunder storms in the area. I figured he’d just proclaim himself The Rain God, along with being the Dauphin of Democracy and The One, The Precious, the Bringer of Light.

    All this, and FISA flipping, too!

    BTD at TalkLeft has an excellent post of Obama’s latest WORM rationalization for his flip. What a flop!

  118. I think Obama’s statement on late-term abortion simply reflects his underlying lack of respect for women in general. They are incapable of the kind of rigorous intellectual and philoshopical reasoning he, as a male, demonstrates so well, and, thus, must be protected from their own weak reasoning and emotional decisions, which, as Justice Kennedy pointed out, lead to later emotional turmoil due to having made such terrible decisions on their own.

    Obama may respect individual women he knows and/or loves–until he has to throw them under the bus for whatever reasons apply at the time….

    Grrrrrrr and whatever PUMA attacking noise is appropriate.

    Reminds me of the old saying in the pre-Roe and early Roe days:

    If men could become pregnant, abortion would be a sacred rite.

    We just want it as an individual right.

  119. I made sure to make my $20.08 donation last night once it was past midnight because I was afraid I’d forget to do it today. I know myself well enough to know that I’m always getting sidetracked by one thing or another.

    As for Obama, are we SURE he’s not a Republican? Because he sure as hell sounds like one to me. I mean, what exactly makes him a Democrat, let alone the Most Liberal Senator EVAH? I ain’t buying it. If it walks like an elephant…

    I hope the superdelegates are paying attention. There’s still time, Supers! We could still win this thing if you come to your senses and nominate the right candidate at the convention. You know, the one who walks and talks and legislates like a Democrat.

  120. $20.08 from Samantha’s mom
    $20.08 from Samantha’s dad

    Now back to my bitter knitting.

  121. Donated my $20.08 this morning.

  122. Having marched in DC with the “bloody” hangers for womens right to choose .. I cannot fully express the depth of loathing I have for this presumptive idiot at this point in time . I am devoted to making certain this man will not be president .

  123. bluelyon, did you move your blog from blogger to wordpress? We might need to update your link in the blogroll.

    Yes I did when the whole Blogger shut down thing happened. Please change my link in your blogroll. Thanks!

  124. There is a typo in the Declaration of Objection and it should be corrected before this is widely distributed:

    but we will use every instrumental within our power

  125. I’ve been called a republican troll and (you’ll LOVE this) a whiny woman on the DNC website when I’ve pointed out BO’s bullshit stance on Roe vs. Wade (and every other BS stance). Buncha ‘bots tried to cyber-gang-jump me and told me all about how Planned Parenthood and NARAL supports him. I stated that he has NOT UTTERED THE WORDS “I will fight to uphold Roe vs. Wade”. Of course, no-one could argue with that, and they all ran away to the next post. How about that? He gets more republican by the day. And I’M supposed to be the RNC troll? Unbelievable.

  126. This, brought to you by the guy who first used the word “pandering” against HRC. I’m with Lou Dobbs* on this. If he’s going to be a first rate panderer, he should just go all the way and tell them he’ll work hard to abolish all abortion.

    Lou accused BO of being a weak-kneed panderer.

    My sense is that we should let the Dems go for broke–that is completely implode–and start over.

  127. […] her debt.  They may be limiting the amount of time they’ll allow her to campaign for that.  As Riverdaughter says, “Remember, it only takes 500,000 of us at $20.08 a head to retire Hillary’s outstanding […]

  128. […] her debt.  They may be limiting the amount of time they’ll allow her to campaign for that.  As Riverdaughter says, “Remember, it only takes 500,000 of us at $20.08 a head to retire Hillary’s outstanding […]

  129. For those who wish to stay together in a long term commitment to the ideals and rinciples that Hillary Clinton has spent a lifetime promoting, http://Together4Us.com offers access for activists, funders, students, policy-makers and ordinary people to come together in support of each other and their goals for America. Please come to our website and join, use the code below to put our linked logo on your website and distribute our message and this code to all your network. Spread the word. We will be happy to put up a reciprocal link, your own co-branded web page on our site, or your own blog.

    Thanks so much,
    Gretchen Glasscock,

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