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Thursday: The Threat of DHMO

I ran across this in my ponderings:

Did you know how dangerous DHMO (dihydrogen monoxide) is?

Dihydrogen monoxide:

  • is called “hydroxyl acid“, the substance is the major component of acid rain.
  • contributes to the “greenhouse effect“.
  • may cause severe burns.
  • contributes to the erosion of our natural landscape.
  • accelerates corrosion and rusting of many metals.
  • may cause electrical failures and decreased effectiveness of automobile brakes.
  • has been found in excised tumors of terminal cancer patients.

Despite the danger, dihydrogen monoxide is often used:

  • as an industrial solvent and coolant.
  • in nuclear power plants.
  • in the production of styrofoam.
  • as a fire retardant.
  • in many forms of cruel animal research.
  • in the distribution of pesticides. Even after washing, produce remains contaminated by this chemical.
  • as an additive in certain “junk-foods” and other food products.

The above was part of a hoax put together by a 14 year old in 1997. The substance he is describing? Water. I think he left out that it is lethal when inhaled. Well, I want a superfund commission to study it. I won’t have any of that stuff in MY backyard.

Hey, do any of you remember the honeybee crisis from last year? Oh, it’s a real problem but I couldn’t believe the number of people who were convinced that it was caused by genetically modified corn. There must be a lot of money in creating fear, uncertainty and doubt (FUD) about the GM crops business.

But what about presidential primaries? Can FUD be used to promote one candidate over another? Like, what if you call her a corporatist over and over again. Oh, she may look honest, but she’s lying to you. She’s dishonest. You can’t trust anything she says. She’ll do anything to win. She’s comparing herself to Obama again? See, I *told* you she’d do anything to win. And that’s because she takes lobbyist money. She’s only doing it for the special interests. She’ll send your 8 year old to war. She’s a hawk. She wants to bomb Iran. She told you she wanted to try diplomacy first? Yeah, her type will tell you anything to win. Liar.

Well, we all want to know how it was done. That marketing strategy was only part of it. The other was using conversion testimonials. How many Kossacks did we read had conversion experiences? It was like a wave of Kossacks going “down to the river to pray”, studying about Obama’s way. And who wants to be left out of that? Um, having been subject to that kind of indoctrination for 4 decades, I didn’t. Anyone else here from a fundy family who resisted? It is kind of strange though to be an outsider to an outsider group.

I guess it is our task to try and deprogram them, though this will not be easy.

In the meantime, we have to focus on Denver. We want a fair, open and transparent convention. We want Hillary to be able to make her case to the superdelegates. We want to the voters in the biggest and swing states to be honored and their primary results to be heard. And here’s an idea that my fevered imagination came up with yesterday: is it possible to take all of the donations we might have given to the DNC, if they had been honest, and put them into an escrow account? We could see how fat it gets before August. All that money just sitting there, money that could be put to good use paying off the balloon and confetti vendors, funding downticket candidates, running ads, if only the DNC would do the right thing…

One more thing: BostonBoomer alluded to this earlier. Senator Clinton went back to her day job. One of her first stops was Syracuse, New York, to kick off an initiative to turn the city green. Hundreds of people came to see her, just like a campaign rally. The initiative is expected to generate thousands of new jobs for the upstate economy. And what about Barack Obama, our presumptuous nominee? Our Dauphin of Democracy? Our Infante of Inspiration? Dunno. He hasn’t been in office long enough to do anything but Just Words.

One MORE more thing:  The blogtalkradio show, NO WE WON’T has been enormously successful.  Last night, Cynthia Ruccia from Womenforfairpolitics was on and our own SM had a nice long conversation with her.  Tonight, the schedule for NO WE WON’T will be expanded from 2 shows a week to three.  Tonight’s guest will be Darragh Murphy of PUMAPac.  I’ve found these broadcasts to be really entertaining, the guests are interesting and there seems to be an growing, national audience.  So, set your tin foil antennas for another broadcast tonight for NO WE WON’T with Darragh Murphy.

167 Responses

  1. Our Democracy is calling us to action. Get out there in any way you can and let people know what is going on. Give them the address of the confluence. Don’t be shy. Don’t be afraid. Forget about how you think people are perceiving you. You can help make July-August 2008 the months that will go down in history as the time the working class people took back control of their government, recitfied the injustice and nominated the winner of the popular vote, the people’s choice, Hillary Clinton.

    Become a true Patriot.

  2. I for one of millions have not stopped “campaigning” on behalf of Hillary. This election has consumed my life and my time. I was unable to complete my Hillary re-hab, I only lasted two days. With the help of all my Puma, Confluencian, and Just Say No Deal friends I was re-energized and action oriented on a daily basis. I believe in my heart of hearts that we will pay off her debt, we will go to Denver and she will get her rightful place as the ELECTED NOMINEE.

  3. This is OT but wanted to show that I’m a woman of my word.

    PUMAcrats love their country. Obamacrats love their Obama.
    I promised that I would contribute to Senator Clinton as soon as my Social Security check came in. It did and I did. Here’s the receipt. Does that get me a Killian Red?

    Date: July 03, 2008 7:59 AM EDT
    Contact: Marjorie aka KenosaMarge
    Kenosha, WI
    Amount: $25.00

  4. Jeez, Marge, this early in the morning?! I mean, I know it’s 12 o’clock somewhere in the world but some of us have to work.
    If you can wait til tonight, I can get us a keg.

  5. The DHMO website, as well as sites about the Pacific Northwest Tree Octopus, the California velcro harvest, and the endangered Naugas , are great websites to use to teach your kids not to believe everything they see on the internet. Then you can send them to Obama’s website to do some analysis there.

  6. * I’m with you too”mawminc”!
    *Everyday I find myself just following my “gut” on this one. 1st I’ll consider this:
    ” Country before Party”!
    “THEN I’m READY to START my DAY” !!
    ** “prplvette85”- did you ever get my past post to you about a # to call with your complaints regarding primary problems in your state??
    If not let me know !!

  7. And what about Barack Obama, our presumptuous nominee? Our Dauphin of Democracy? Our Infante of Inspiration? Dunno. He hasn’t been in office long enough to do anything but Just Words.

    Many people have been asking the same. He’s certainly thinking about which one of Bush’s position he’ll adopt next, while playing a Liberal, a “Centrist” and looking for another “Souljah” moment.
    The WSJ, in yesterday’s editorial had a pretty good idea:

    Next up for Mr. Obama’s political blessing will be Mr. Bush’s Iraq policy. Only weeks ago, the Democrat was calling for an immediate and rapid U.S. withdrawal. When General David Petraeus first testified about the surge in September 2007, Mr. Obama was dismissive and skeptical. But with the surge having worked wonders in Iraq, this week Mr. Obama went out of his way to defend General Petraeus against MoveOn.org’s attacks in 2007 that he was “General Betray Us.” Perhaps he had a late epiphany.

    Look for Mr. Obama to use his forthcoming visit to Iraq as an excuse to drop those withdrawal plans faster than he can say Jeremiah Wright “was not the person that I met 20 years ago.”

    After posting a comment last night, I remember who Barack Obama reminds me of: Leonard Zelig.

  8. Good morning!

    RD, Those conversion stories at DK drove me nuts. For a long time I just ignored those diaries. Now I wish I had started reading them sooner so I could have recognized what was coming. I actually thought Obama was probably an inexperienced but otherwise normal politician until around December of 2007. Now we know it was a deliberate strategy, pushed by Obama camps and helped along by DFA. Creepy!

  9. Good morning guys..

    wanted to post this b-4 I go to work,
    (apologies, if some of this is a repeat, I’m cutting and pasting this on all pro-hill/anti-bo blogs…)

    1) $20.08 on July 4th.. if you can let people know to use Heidi’s link:

    2) JSND has created a radio show and we are trying to spread the word,
    tonight at 8PM EST Darruagh Murphy of PUMA PAC will be on, please encourage all to listen, and people can call in as well, the number is on the link:


    Also, I am is trying to start to coordinate things like flyers and encourage people to spread these JSND flyers.. to spread the word.. etc .. would any of you like to be a one of many coordinators for this?
    (if so.. shoot me an email and please id yourself… sarajohns0202@gmail.com)

  10. “I guess it is our task to try and deprogram them, though this will not be easy.”

    I think the problem with this is that mostly it’s not people who really understood politics that were swayed away to insanity by rhetoric. Rather the seconverts are people who never really understood how politics or the world works in the first place, and are only now having their rude awakening. This isn’t their fault in many cases, they’re just young and/or naive and didn’t know what was up.

    But revelation isn’t instantaneous — especially when a deep and meaningful understanding of human psychology, sociology and economics is missing. It’s an understanding that, for most people, takes years to build. So many of these people, especially the young ones, will come around. They’ll realize the mistake and learn from it and be better paricipants in democracy.

    But we aren’t going to “deprogram” many in the short term. Because they simply don’t have the underpinnings needed to understand what’s happening. Rather the fence sitters who do know what’s going on, but aren’t sure which way to turn, are our best bet for open conversation. The Obama converts will have to learn the realities of the world on their own time, and their own schedule for growth.

  11. Riverdaughter,

    At my age and in my health you don’t want to put off anything too long. It’s not so much immediate gratification as living long enough to get any gratification at all. And besides, it’s never too early for a Killian Red. Or too late.

  12. I was at a doctor’s office yesterday which had old copies of The Nation. One was a collection of commentary on all the Democrats in the race, from Nov. 2007. The piece by Dyson on Obama was so over the top fawning I nearly gagged. (Gore Vidal did a great piece on Dennis Kucinich and made me respect DK more.) The piece on Hillary was how she’d make a great leader and governor. It was pragmatic, admiring, but not fawning and assinine. I realize more and more how Democrats have been looking for the next JFK all the time. It keeps coming up. And I ask why? JFK got us into Vietnam. He did that stupid Bay of Pigs thing. Until he got shot, which was a terrible tragedy, it looked like he’d have a hard time getting any civil rights legislation passed. LBJ was the guy with pull. In all probability, JFK would have been a one term president. So once again, I arrive at this problem: why is the only 2 term Dem since FDR being dissed for a myth? And why does Hillary have to pay the price for this JFK mythic narrative that allowed the Dems to keep losing every election until a truly charismatic, new Democrat named Bill Clinton with his own (not JFK-like) agenda arrived on the scene and revived the party? Now we are back to JFK and the Kennedy ascendancy, with every Kennedy backing Obama even though his turn to the right is far more right than Bill Clinton and is scary. It will undo all of the good Ted Kennedy did as a senator if Obama is elected. I just don’t get it. If we can’t get a new deal, we have to say no deal. I want Hillary back. There’s a plan to have everyone write to 18 Superdelegates. It’s on Facebook Together4US. Will Bower is involved, and I think people will do it.

    And I hope the mortgage thing chips away at Obama but the LA Times had no more on it today, and I am guessing it’s going to fade.

  13. I noticed that, too, RD: Obama’s entire strategy was, “No matter what she says or does you just can’t trust her!” Thus, he never had to actually work to show you he was the better choice, just demonize her. But who was he to be believed in his, uh, “judgment” of a major politician? The only way that could’ve happened was if people wanted to believe what he was saying. This is where the misogyny (Fatal Attraction) and right-wing myths (Harry & Louise) come in.

    What’s really eerie about Obama is how much he reveals about himself. Whatever horrible act he accused Clinton (or another opponent) of doing, he actually did (e.g., “She’ll do anything to win!” “She cannot be trusted!”). When Obama pulled the race card at a FL fund raiser recently, it struck me that he said the GOP would try to paint him as “terrifying.” I couldn’t help but think, “He basically just admitted he actually is terrifying.”

  14. Will anyone be posting the results of the 4th of July donation results. It would be good to let us know, how we are doing.

  15. It is a little after 9am and I just received a call from the DNC asking me to contribute 100.00 to ensure the Dems get into office in November.

    I told the caller “no way” was I contributing one more dime to the DNC. He then went on to point out how important it is to support Dems this year and beat the GOP. I then went on, voice rising, to tell me the difference between the current Dem Party and the GOP He indicated that we have a strong candidate in Mr. Empty Suit. I laughed out loud.

    I told him that since May 31st I no longer consider myself Democrat but Independent and that the strongest candidate, Hillary Clinton who could have handily beaten McCain had been pushed out. He then shouted that Hillary was no longer the candidate and that all Dems need to “unite”. I then shouted back that until the DNC was cleansed of the robber barons, do not count on me. He hung up.

    It was an uplifting conversation all around.

  16. “How many Kossacks did we read had conversion experiences?” Ewww, those diaries used to REALLY creep me out. It sounded too much like the Dubya worshipers.

  17. Hillary Clinton, in her speech where she suspended her campaign, she said something like:
    I will keep standing up for you as long as you keep standing up for me.

    I took that as meaning: I need you to stand up for me this summer.

    I see this as an epic struggle for not just the heart and soul of the Democratic party, but also our Country. We have to fight to protect our Democracy. Unfortunately, the fight is not with any foreign element or nation, it is a fight with the people in our own Party that want to sell us out yet another time.
    However, I don’t think the American people can take being sold out again. Our economy is going down the toilet fast. Gas is so expensive. Something has got to give. I just pray it gives before August. I fear if Obama is elected, we will have ourselves another Hoover.

  18. I took what she said as a lifelong commitment, and it made me happy to know we have such a champion.

    I also think that some at least of what is going on in the economy is a crisis of confidence, because the only competent candidate has been pushed out of the race, and everyone knows the two left have no clue.

  19. This is OT, but I think I told you that I did some Off the Bus stuff for HuffPost before it became the Obama Beat. Anyway, I got an email asking if I was still interested, in response I sent them the following email and got this one back this morning, which is self explanatory.

    I would really like your views on this and would never send in anything without approval from RD, KB, Gary, MAWM or BB’s input. I don’t know if this is something we should do, considering the beating we all took when going over there. Or with the tide seeming to shift lately, do we want to let them know our strength? Let me know, anything I do, I would want to be a collaberative effort.

    Hi Kim–
    Well maybe not a beat, but you could certainly do a series of stories on the movement from the inside. What are PUMAs talking about? Are they being persuaded at all to join one side or the other? Who is approaching them? What is the demographic make up of the movmt? What does the movement look like geographically? Does it mirror the map of Hillary’s wins? Or is it different? Does it suggest some other pattern?

    All of that and more would be news. But we want reporting not opinion. Report on the movement honestly with heavy quotes and reliable sources and your pieces will find a spot here at OffTheBus.

    Let me know.

    On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 1:34 PM, kim farris wrote:

    I don’t think there is much I have to offer in the way of a beat topic. I have now joined the ranks of a PUMA. The only thing I could report on would be DisUnity. I am a constant blogger on the Puma’s websites and your readers do not really like us.

  20. Good Morning Everyone!

    It looks like people are using my name for Good!

    kenoshaMarge – you are wonderful. Rico, a Killian Red for Marge! We will share the keg when RD gets home tonight.

    I was “working the room” on the plane and last night at dinner.

    I started talking to the lady sitting on the plane ride to LA. I asked her who she was going to vote for. She looked around and then said, “I guess Obama.” I immediately told her I was 100% behind Hillary. She then said, “so am I, but it’s too late.” Well, she should be signing on this weekend and donating. She and her husband really wanted Hillary and weren’t aware of what we are doing. She said she’s on board, they just didn’t know what to do.

    Last night at dinner, my niece and her boyfriend promised to donate and get on board. Their 10 month old daughter Helena is a Hillary gal also, she will be making a contribution from her piggy bank to help settle “OUR DEBT”, under her mother’s name of course.

    Let’s keep getting the word out! People are with us, they just don’t know who “us is” yet!

    PUMA$ Who Donate Rock!

    President Hillary Rodham Clinton 2008

  21. I wanted to post this link to the NYT article about Hillary back on the job as senator. Visiting upstate New York to inspect crop damage, she was given a hero’s welcome. I thought is was a nice report.


    A very big THANKS! to mawm and gary for all of their hard work.

    I really don’t have any money, but plan to make the July 4th donation to pay Hillary’s debt.

    I also made a letter size PUMA sign, incorporating a logo I printed from the web, to put in my car window, since I don’t have a bumper sticker, so we PUMAs can recognize each other out there.

    fran in phila.

  22. I loved this:

    The crowd of several hundred responded to Clinton like she was a rock star, using cell phones to snap pictures, hugging her, and asking for her autograph on any scrap of paper they could find.

    “She hugged me,” gushed Stephanie Roehm after posing for a photo with Clinton.

    “I think she is awesome,” said Joanne Landers of Liverpool, who took a break from her downtown job to catch a glimpse of Clinton. “I’m bummed (she isn’t running for president). I’m hoping she will take the VP job.”

    “If she’s the vice president, I’ll vote for Obama. Otherwise I’m not voting,” said Nicole Baldwin of Volney.

  23. guys, where is the best place to donate today? There is a link for JustSayNoDeal over at No Quarter, and I know there is one at Heidi’s blog. Does it matter? I get paid today and I’m fired up and ready to go!! (Hee.)

  24. I just donated to the Denver Group


    They are doing important work to ensure there is an Open convention with Hillary’s name on the ballot, and allowing her supporters to make speeches at the convention.

    If there isn’t an Open convention Obama will be the nominee. He wants to keep her name off the ballot. Shades of Alice Palmer. We can’t let the Anti-Democrat get away with it.

  25. Dancing – you can go to the http://www.hillaryclinton.com site and come back and post your details.

    Make sure you are on the donations for Hillary only – not for BO or DNC.

  26. We wear Hillary buttons EVERY time we leave our house and are amazed at the number of people who say “I like your button” and start a conversation.

    The disgust and anger with the DNC and how the corrupt democratic primary system was manipulated by Howard Dean to ensure that Obama would be the nominee is expessed by all.

    And the”why” question.?? Why Obama? DNC couldn’t have choosen a candidate with less experience, more ties to shady politics and disreputable characters, an extended family of Muslim siblings one of whom is probably on a “terrorist” watch list, etc., etc.. WHY? WHY? WHY?

    We remind everyone that Hillary has retained her delegates.

  27. MAWM did you read my post?

  28. Dancing – you can also just click the “i” photo above, and comeback and post your details.


  29. Fran and others – don’t put yourself in a financial bind. If you decide you can, post the details.

    PUMA$ Who Donate Rock!

    Fran Rocks!

  30. RD, as a fellow scientist, I want to thank you for pointing out at least one of the fallacies that have circulated about GM crops. I don’t usually find myself defending large corporations, but the bitterness in Europe, in particular, over Monsanto’s control of GM seeds, has defied one of the basic precepts of science: rational discussion and analysis. It has been with some amusement that I’ve read about all the European and Japanese restrictions being lifted on GM corn now that they are suffering some of the effects of the worldwide food crisis. Many people don’t realize that almost all seed today has been genetically modified due to increased yields and greater ability to withstand disease, drought, etc. Only the tiniest farms can even consider growing with open-pollinated seed, and, even then, the output is likely to be lower and less satisfactory than with hybrid seed. End of rant.

    It was wonderful to see Hillary in front of a crowd again, and it was clear, to me, that her following in New York has grown even more. They seemed so proud of her–and rightly so.

  31. Hello all, looks like BO wants to shorten the convention to get a bounce in the polls, from the LA times:


  32. On RCP today:

    “Obama and Bush aren’t exactly kindred spirits, but today’s Wall Street Journal editorializes that they’re closer than we may think:

    We’re beginning to understand why Barack Obama keeps protesting so vigorously against the prospect of “George Bush’s third term.” Maybe he’s worried that someone will notice that he’s the candidate who’s running for it.
    Most Presidential candidates adapt their message after they win their party nomination, but Mr. Obama isn’t merely “running to the center.” He’s fleeing from many of his primary positions so markedly and so rapidly that he’s embracing a sizable chunk of President Bush’s policy. Who would have thought that a Democrat would rehabilitate the much-maligned Bush agenda?

    The Journal notes substantial shifts on the surveillance of foreign terrorists, trade, faith-based initiatives, welfare reform, gun rights, and the surge in Iraq:

    All of which prompts a couple of thoughts. The first is that Mr. Obama doesn’t seem to think American political sentiment has moved as far left as most of the media claim. Another is that the next President, whether Democrat or Republican, is going to embrace much of Mr. Bush’s foreign and antiterror policy whether he admits it or not. “

  33. tpt- No I did not, I would appreciate it. Thanks!

  34. I don’t quite understand, Kim. Do they want you to blog about us at HuffPo?

    We defintie;y want the message to go out. I don’t care who puts it out. I got deriding for appearing on FOX, but I don’t care. We need the exposure.

    I think you should write about the RBC decision, and the fact that Hillary won the popular vote, but is being denied the nomination by Super Delegates who want to override the will of the people.

    Tell them it is not sour grapes it is a fight for Democracy. We cannot allow the decision to award the anti-Democrat who took his name off the ballot to not only receive all the Uncommitted votes in MI, the 30,000 write-ins that have never been opened and no one knows what they say, but also to have been given delegates that came from voters that went to Clinton.

    This is about Democracy in America, and whether or not we are going to give up our right to a credible election.

    Thanks God Hillary never quit, so we could see as plain as day how corrupt the DNC is.

  35. tpt- you can email me at theanswerisnogetit@gmail.com

  36. Kim, yes, he’s embracing Bush’s policies so fast, you would think Bush was popular!

  37. prplvette85-
    Senate Judicary Committee office headed by Senator Arlene Spector # 202-224-5225 I spoke with a staffer
    named “Andrew”. He informed me that they “dropped” the investigation into complaints regarding the problems with the democratic primary when Hillary stepped aside.
    I also e-mailed this to Will Bower of PUMA & he said he will call today.
    I say “the more the better”!
    Let me know what happens. I remember your story & found it to be very powerful.
    Go PUMA!

  38. Yes, absolutely! Denver first, then November. Let’s see if we can use this leverage for something before it’s too late and we HAVE to use it to thwart the forces of evil.

  39. No Gary, they want me to:

    Do a series of stories on the movement from the inside of Puma.

    They want to know what PUMAs talking about?

    The demographic make up of the movmt? What does the movement look like geographically? Does it mirror the map of Hillary’s wins? Or is it different? Does it suggest some other pattern?

    They do not want any opinion, but heavy quotes and reliable sources.

  40. mawminc —

    The thing about Hillary is that not only does she fight for all of US, she fights for everyone, even the people who didn’t vote for her, even the people who hate her. She does not let their nastiness and blindness keep her from fighting the good fight for everyone.

    Obama, on the other hand, doesn’t even fight for his own supporters. Hello, FISA!

  41. The bee thing is real RD! The bee thing is so scary it’s even worse than this election has been. That’s the food chain. I’ve been a gardener for a long time. Trust me, I know bees.

    I don’t want to scare you all but! Search “colony collapse” as News on the G. Today? 832 articles.

    Pumas Clinton search now up in the 3, 260,000 range! Good news!
    (for us) — I’m still investigating camp McC. I will NEVER vote for the other choice. He is worse than the big B. Believe me. No principles, no ethics. None. Just say No to O. Never O.

    If you guys want the hard news on all that try NQ… or Patriot Room or Flopping Aces. That’s the hard news that no mainstream press is going to tell you.

  42. Sorry Mawm, not Gary.

  43. Isn’t DHMO a primary ingredient in kool-aid?

  44. “But we want reporting not opinion.”

    Wait, NOW HuffPo wants reporting, not opinion?

  45. We remember Earl Warren as the Chief Justice of SCOTUS and for the liberal decisions handed down during his tenure (Brown v. Board of Education, Miranda v. Arizona) but prior to his appointment he served as AG and Governor of California.

    As AG he participated in Japanese Internment, which he later regretted. But during the hysteria leading up to Americans of Japanese descent, he testified before Congress and stated:

    “The only reason that there has been no sabotage or espionage on the part of Japanese-Americans is that they are waiting for the right moment to strike.”

    I think that captures the anti-Hillary mindset perfectly.

  46. Kim,

    That actually sounds like a great opportunity. What about if you wrote pieces where you collected different writings from blogosphere 2.0? You could write kind of a round up of what people are talking about. Maybe it would be a way to get some of Riverdaughter’s ideas out there.

    You could bounce your ideas off us before and/or after writing them up. And you would be able to put links to blogs you like to go to. Even if people didn’t comment, there would be lurkers who would then join our movement.

    What about if you used the piece you wrote about how you originally supported Obama and then changed your mind–and how your kids agreed with you?

  47. tpt/ny- Thank you so much I will call today as well. I do know I am working with some people from the campaign, and we are not going to let it drop. When you are in the middle of something and see it with your own eyes, it is very hard ..at least for me to just drop it. What I and many others went through, and witnessed cannot and should not be just “dropped”

  48. Kim,

    I wrote my previous comment before I saw that they are just asking who we are, etc. It doesn’t sound like they really what to know what we are thinking or why we are thinking it.

  49. Re: Conversion experiences

    James Wolcott did a post about these long detailed essays we kept seeing throughout Left Blogistan where some previously unheard of commenter would lay out in nauseating detail how they used to be a Hillary supporter but how after she did ________ (insert fauxrage of the week) they could no longer support or vote for her, and were now entusiastically drinking the kool-aid like all the rest of the sippy-cup kidz.

    Those type of comments stopped almost immediately, just like the fainting at Obama rallies after NQ put up a video showing several of them at different rallies, and Obama calling attention to each of them.

    Just a coinky-dink, I’m sure..

  50. Kim:

    Just tell them that we a bunch of bitter old white women holed up in our cabins in the Appalachians, clinging to our guns and Bibles while sewing white hoods and robes for our menfolk to wear to the next cross burning.

    I’ll bet they’ll believe you.

  51. BB: I think the pieces I submitted would have to be viewed by all for approval. I also think getting PUMA on Huff Post might not be a bad idea, but I would want to make sure that they did not mess with anything I sent in. I can handle the Obots, no worry. But the fact that they would probably bash everything we submit would show some of the reasons we are PUMA’ s to begin with.

  52. Kim, I would avoid HuffPo like the plague. If their readers really want to know what PUMAs are thinking and doing, they can come here, or to any of the other known PUMA-supportive websites, to find out what’s going on. Sounds like a con job to me.

  53. As for Senator Empty-Suit, Hillbuzz says he skipped the Chicago Gay Pride Parade and the DLC meeting (also in Chicago) and got a haircut instead.

  54. Kim,

    I like what Maum said. I was thinking, why don’t you do an interview with Gary and Maum and write about their experiences at the RBC meeting and in Unity, NH? That way you could get quotes from them about why they are doing what they are doing. Talk about how they are blogging and organizing protests–how Maum got on TV, how they are making videos, etc. It would be a great story! You guys could even meet up, since you all are in the Carolinas.

    You could back up what they say by describing what the DNC did. You could refer to Paul Lukasiak’s work too, and maybe get in touch with him. I haven’t seem him around lately.

  55. So can we pull together some facts? Aren’t we estimated to be 3 million now? Approximately, how many sites do we have, etc.? Our core principles? You can get my EM through the link here and I will put something together by Sunday. Didn’t FISA bring us more? There are facts to back up our opinions, so…

  56. I would wonder if they just want to get a handle on PUMA so they can devise some wedge issues to split us up, or alienate us from Hillary.

  57. plural–My thinking exactly. Time to be skeptical here.

  58. Good Idea BB, I mean, alot of us bounced around the internet looking for a home after HuffPo and Kos, threw us under the bus. Now they may want to know why, I think we should tell them. If we see that one story is trashed, we never do it again and tell them to go where the sun doesn’t shine.

  59. Last night I googled “PUMA Party” and found the new entry at Wikipedia. Very good article, lucid, descriptive, cogent. However, there appears to be a movement to have the entry removed–led by the Obots, no doubt. The article is currently “under discussion” and I would highly recommend we all get our butts over there and join the discussion/point out that there is nothing reprehensible or inaccurate about the article, and that it’s removal would be the result of bullying and censorship, plain and simple. My apologies if this has already been addressed in another thread.

  60. Plural and Greys: We can’t give them a wedge issue, we don’t have one. For 90% of us, there are so many things we don’t like, one issue can’t divide us. I am thinking, one story, see what happens. Remember how Bittergate exploded, that was an Off the Bus citizen journalist. If this is done right, it could really benefit us. If it looks like a hatchet job, we don’t do it again.

  61. Kim,

    They want you to do a series, right? There are are lots of things to write about. There is blogtalkradio, and all the new sites. Tonight Corrente is having a “symposium” on blogsphere 2.0. I’ll bet RD will have lots of ideas.

    I don’t think there is any way to really estimate the size of PUMA and people who agree with us but aren’t on the internet to see what’s happening. One way you could do it is to use the polls that show that only 53% of Hillary’s supporters are willing to vote for BO. Of the rest about 23% will vote McCain and the rest are undecided. That’s pretty telling. Again P. Lukasiak has done a lot of this kind of research. I can pull up links to his posts here. He has also posted at Corrente.

  62. I really enjoyed the vid of Hillary in Syracuse. I just never get used to the fact that she knows her stuff backwards and forwards.. without notes! She’s amazing. And I take solace in the fact that if we don’t have her in the WH, we will definitely have her in the Senate doing great things. Aren’t we lucky?!

    But I fully expect to see her at the convention and possibly in the WH.

  63. Kim,

    Your story is going to be trashed in the comments. That’s a given. But if we know when it’s going up, we can get over there and add our comments. I’d better sign up for Huffpo. I never did that. Besides, there will be readers who don’t comment and who are looking for a place to go.

  64. Kim,

    I think KB might have Paul Lukasiak’s e-mail. I’ll check with her and let you know. Meanwhile, if it’s OK, I’ll e-mail you at the address on your comments here. Gary could do the same.

  65. Yeah, and I would have to explain my transformation to give credence to my being a PUMA to begin with, right? They asked for quotes, well we have plenty. I could give the origination, the fact that we had over a million hits on sites, in less than a month.

    We could show that we are organized, together and united.

    I would need help, we could not submit something that could be torn apart.

    So, before I do anything, get with the others and get their thoughts and let me know.

  66. Donation check for $20.08 off in the mail today.

  67. Kim, perhaps it’s unfair to refer to “wedge” issues, but I can certainly see the opportunity to take quotes out of context or to use partial quotes in attempting to denigrate PUMAs. We see this happening all the time in politics–think of the Clinton quote about the MI primary, where almost every source omits her full quotation. That’s why we find ourselves constantly reminding people of what she really said about the primary, because there was a deliberate attempt by anti-Clinton forces to make her look hypocritical. That’s my concern.

  68. is it just me or is that LA Times a bunch of bs? it seems to me they would cut the convention short not to give hime another day of bounce (that’s the stupides thing I’ve ever heard). I think its much more likely that they can’t afford it. I guess they couldn’t make up for the shortfall I wrote about about a week ago

  69. Okay, just send me your stuff. I want RD’s approval, may sound hokey, but to me, words cannot describe how just being here has helped me.

  70. Greys: I can tell them that nothing gets published without my consent. So, if they change something, I will not allow it to be sent in.

    BB: Let ’em trash me, you think I give a rat’s ass? Alot of us, became PUMA’s because of the trashing. The more they trash, the more ignorant they look, IMHO.

  71. Kim,

    I agree that we should get RD’s input before you decide definitely what to do. But you could always send the Huffpo guy a note saying you are thinking about it and you have some ideas. I really think this is a tremendous opportunity, especially now that a lot of the Obamabots are starting to have second thought. I looked at DK this morning and they are still in turmoil. I heard Arianna is upset with BO too.

  72. Kim, I e-mailed you.

  73. kim, why don’t you get arianna to cough up some dough to do a real honest to goodness poll to find out how many of us there are…I haven’t seen one anywhere. I do see in most polling (gallup) about 13% that are “neither” or “other”….I wonder if that is us?

  74. Morning All,

    Takes me a good while to read posts and check out links–being old and bitter does that to you–not to mention being sent out on an ice floe.

    myiq2xu–love the sippy-cup kidz

    You know in the fall, my husband and I kept saying how great it was that we had so many good candidates this year. Now, the Dems managed to eliminate all but the one with the thinnest resume to ever run for president. Not surprised with the LA Times story–but it seems more in line with the BO theme of ‘Elect Me Quick.’ Me thinks they want a done deal before the shit hits the fan.

  75. Btw, tell me I am not alone in having my life fall apart around me this year. My house is cluttered, yard a mess, work suffering and I can’t get off the net.

  76. Gary,

    The Dems who are voting for McCain could also be PUMAs.

  77. One huge escrow account – yes!

    very good idea.

  78. Magdalena,

    That’s a great idea about Wikipedia. I don’t know how to comment there. Is it easy?

  79. Kim, it sounds like you suspect HuffPo wanting you as a “mole” in the PUMA movement, and I’m sure you’re right. But you could be a “double agent”, using so many great PUMA quotes that their unassailable logic and sincere patriotism shine though.

  80. I know I’m showing my “low-information” status here, but I would like some input about donating to retire Hillary’s debt. I donated to her campaign during the primary, but not since she suspended her campaign. I understand the reasoning behind retiring her debt so that she won’t be beholden to anybody. But I also want Barack Obama to have to give up something in return for her support. I feel like she’s going to be strongarmed by the Party into campaigning for him, and retiring her debt will probably be part of those negotiations. So aren’t we paying the debt so he won’t have to? If he is willing to pay to get Hillary to play, wouldn’t it be better to give our money to somebody like the Denver group?

  81. OT AGAIN, but important…

    the use of hillary’s website, hillaryclinton.com, has been given to her 2012 senate re-election effort, so if you want to help retire the campaign debt this july the 4th with a $20.08 contribution (or using riverdaughter’s calculations, a $35 contribution), DO NOT USE the old HillRaiser links. all the money sent in on them goes to the senate campaign now that the website has changed hands.

    here is a link that will go to the debt:


  82. Kim,

    I know I don’t post here often, but I lurk all the time. There are so many brilliant writers here that, by the time I read the comments, I have nothing to add.

    About the offer from Huffpo, I’m sensing that there is a concerted effort on the part of the Obamacans and the DNC (but I repeat myself) to bring us back into the fold. I had a similar experience in a conversation with the Chairman of my legislative district in WA State. After our long discussion about why I would never support BO and why I felt the caucuses were a farce, he asked me to come to meetings and participate in efforts to make the caucuses better. I politely refused adding that the only way to improve the caucuses was to eliminate them altogether because I felt they were not democratic. He finally got my message that I was done with the Democratic party but still asked me to keep in touch.

    The fact that he called me in response to a comment I made in an e-mail was quite unusual. Sure, I’ve been a delegate and a volunteer for many years, but I’m not a big muckety muck. He hit me with canned talking points and seemed to really want me to get involved again.

    I just wonder if this offer from Huffpo is another part of the effort to bring us all back under the tent.

    I think it’s a good opportunity for exposure and publicity, but it’s not going to get me to start reading Huffpo again.

    Just my two cents.


  84. Hi kc, my house is a mess, I have plants that need to go in the ground (even a couple primroses are still in plastic pots from – January? ) and I barely keep the dishes done – but I do try to get them done while making dinner every day.

    I check back here all day – I am looking for any ‘good’ news. I have felt better since Hillary was completely screwed, until that point the small losses adding up daily were hard for me to take. I don’t have to deal with the all day Hillary hate-fest. Now I have resolve on my side because I know what I will do, but the house isn’t in much better shape.

  85. I’m really trying to retire my credit card. If I download the contribution form from Hillary’s website and send in a check, can the money be used to retire her debt?
    Carol, I haven’t forgotten that I pledged fifty bucks; I’m simply trying to turn over a new spending leaf.

  86. another wasted opportunity:

    North Carolina Gov. Mike Easley is being lauded by the nation’s top teacher lobbying group as “America’s Greatest Education Governor.”

    Easley was an ardent Hillary supporter. He probably would have made an excellent Sec. of Education. How many progressive opportunities is Obama going to destroy…this really is a travesty for our country

  87. RE: Grayslady’s comment about the bee-flap (which is real, but not the ‘fault’ of hybrid corn. . . Can similar logic be applied to off-shore oil-drilling?

    I (not a scientist, never voted Republican until maybe in November) have often wondered why Norway, with it’s pristine waters and fjords that are regarded as national/international treaures, can supply its own population’s energy needs via off-shore oil drilling AND also export oil to other countries? One would reason that Norway would never want to endanger fragile ecosystems, and thus any oil-drilling would not be done nilly-willy, and that the oil companies would be required to use “safe” drilling technology. Thus, if NORWAY can safely drill for off-shore oil, why can’t the US?

    I am not normally “Republican” in my views, but it does seem that for at least a while longer, while we shift energy production sources away from fossil fuels, it would help free the US from reliance on Middle East oil sources and all of the trouble that comes with that.

    Shouldn’t/couldn’t the McCain folks consider this in their energy policy discussions?

  88. bb: I am leaving shortly for Boston for the weekend. Back on Sunday. Hope to beat some of the traffic on the way down as 128 scares me half to death.

    I am disappointed that I will not be able to take part in the first Book Club meeting with malib. If you are participating at that time please let her know I am heading down your way for the weekend and won’t be able to be online tonight. Thanks.

  89. “But revelation isn’t instantaneous — especially when a deep and meaningful understanding of human psychology, sociology and economics is missing. It’s an understanding that, for most people, takes years to build. So many of these people, especially the young ones, will come around. They’ll realize the mistake and learn from it and be better paricipants in democracy.

    But we aren’t going to “deprogram” many in the short term. Because they simply don’t have the underpinnings needed to understand what’s happening. Rather the fence sitters who do know what’s going on, but aren’t sure which way to turn, are our best bet for open conversation. The Obama converts will have to learn the realities of the world on their own time, and their own schedule for growth.”

    I have found this to be very true…its why I don’t get too mad at my politically wet behind the ears 24 yr old kid who never blogs or understood why I was trying to draft Gore last year, so when he is baffled that support that corporate sellout, I laugh at him for pushing the empty suit… and wait…

    He’ll get it in time. He’s a smart kid. He’s beginning to topple over FISA….

  90. Oh, the verbal assault of Hillary pissed me off every day. I hadn’t realized how deep the sexism ran, I just thought my personal encounters were just that – my personal encounters.

    I don’t feel pissed off every day – just plotting my revenge 😉

  91. Carol-I think the best place to donate is through Heidi Li’s ActBlue because it keeps a running total of number of donations and SSso we know that’s our donations. If we just donate through her site we don’t have any info at all. What do you think?

  92. SS=$$

  93. kc, I don’t know you but we may be sisters. You are not alone…….house barely livable, meals from restaurants or TV dinners, and yard a weedpatch. But I check here and others several times a day. Thank goodness I’m retired or I would be fired. Puma in western PA

  94. Oh, Damn! I cried both times I looked at the pictures and the video. What a wonderful opportunity we missed this time to elect an abundantly qualified candidate for president — the fact that she would have been the first woman president would have been icing on the cake. Makes me angry all over again at what transpired this primary.

    Let us make the sham candidate who stole the nomination lose in November — he is not even honoring those who fervently believed he was their candidate — maybe because he never was their candidate in the first place? He is hobnobbing with Dobson and comes out with his pronouncement about Bush’s faith-based initiatives — that should make Wright happy — more $$$ for God Damn America! The Democrats, fools that they are, are not holding Bush accountable for anything — he is the luckiest bastard in the world.

  95. Thanks “prplvette85”
    Keep me informed, thru here or you now have my e-mail.

  96. Sweetie: They have sent me numerous emails about “Off the Bus” reporting. Each and every time I have declined stating the same reason. Usually, my line is to the effect of, I no longer support your candidate, but thanks. This time I (bolstered by my friends here) that I am a PUMA and have nothing to offer and cannot even consider assisting in a story that would aide a candidate I cannot and will not support. Did not hear anything back from them and thought that was that. Over done with, gone.

    Then this morning I get the email above. Not going to read much into it, but we have to remember that Mayhill Fowler was on Off the Bus correspondent and Huff Post released her article, that culminated in BitterGate. Most know about the bitter, guns and religion remark, but do not realize the article was originally posted on HuffPo by an Obama supporter.

  97. bostonboomer, it requires creating an account and then logging in. Then, there is a “discussion” tab above the article, very easy to click on. It looks like the author of the article has already responded to (possibly valid) criticisms of an earlier version (which I did not see), but that the article is still under threat of removal. I can see no reason why, other than, again, somebody just doesn’t want it there. I am not all that familiar with how Wikipedia works internally, but it looks like the PUMA Party entry needs some calm, rational support over there, in the form of discussion by people knowledgeable concerning the legitimacy and scale of the movement; but above all attention needs to be drawn to what appears to be an effort to politicize the screening process instead of simply letting a straightforward article stand. And we all know who is behind that.

  98. georgiapeach-He’s made it pretty clear that’s he’s not going to be paying her debt. He suggested to his fundraisers that they might want to give her something but it’s probably just a drop in the bucket. He’s not raising much money for his campaign. It’s mostly up to use because her maxed out donors can’t give her any more.

  99. Kim

    I’m all for getting our voice out there but I’m leery of their motives. Their “interest” might be coming from the Opossum Camp. They realize they have a problem, many are not falling for the unity crap. “They weren’t expecting PUMA” and are now trying to gage and infiltrate. We are big and growing everyday, but
    our purpose should be to get the word OUT on why Obama is unqualified, on how he stands for nothing Dems wwhat happened, how the DNC behaved

  100. Hi Pat,

    I hope you have a great weekend! I got the book but have barely started it. I will pass on your message though. Let’s hope no thunder, lightning and hail during the concert.

  101. July 03, 2008, 8:49 PT


    Re: your comment on HuffPo

    Do you notice they are asking you to write about the DEMOGRAPHICS of the PUMA PARTY, but tell you NOT to write about OPINION?

    I think they are just trying to get as much information they can about us in order to try to target (“convert” to BHO, or to try to run us over) their attacks more effectively.

    Just in case, I have been following our beloved Hillary’s campaign for months and I am also a PUMA.

    Have a good day,

  102. Denise W.,

    I don’t think it matters what their motives are. As long as Kim can find a way to get our message out, who cares? Since she has the final say on what is published, I think it’s worth a try.

  103. I have read that are trying to shut down PUMA. I think the car vandals in Flordia was really to try to link Hillary to Puma and blame the PUMA group so people would think we were the thugs, but we all know who they are

  104. tI have read they..not that

  105. jjmtacoma—–agree, the decline of the media’s CDS has lowered my blood pressure (until CNN started its ‘why hasn’t Bill endorsed ‘bs), but I do feel a deep -low boiling rage that hasn’t gone away.

    Another thing that bothers me about the youth vote-the kool-aid kids, is the urgency of the need to repair our country now (notice I didn’t say fierce urgency). Interested in politics-great, getting involved-great, but we desparately need competence-urgently. Why do we have to keep repeating the same mistakes, especially now?

  106. They’ll realize the mistake and learn from it and be better paricipants in democracy.

    Just in time for the next generation of their kids to completely blow them off and run the country over the next cliff.

  107. tpt/ny: I never expected anything from do-nothing Spector. He always talks up a good outrage, and then flattens like a worm.

    Gary: I agree with you, the shorter convention would be about money. They sure as hell can’t admit that their cash is not as moist as expected.

    kc: About 10 times a day, husband says to me,”Good grief, are you on that computer again?” I always tell him that it’s not the posts taking up my time, it’s the comments. Of course, he has started reading the comments too, and loves them, so y’all are a frequent source of conversation at our house. He says, “What did Janis say?” He loves her comments.

  108. Kim

    Just my 2 cents:

    I’m all for getting our voice out there but I’m leery of their motives. Their “interest” might be coming from the Opossum Camp. They realize they have a problem; many are not falling for the unity crap. “They weren’t expecting PUMA” and are now trying to gage us. We are big and growing everyday, but our purpose should be to get the word OUT like Mawm says- on why Obama is unqualified, on how he stands for nothing and should be properly vetted, how the DNC behaved and why we consider him an illegitimate nominee.
    It should not be our responsibility, nor is it in our best interest, to tell them OUR numbers, the demographic make up of the movmt, and its geography etc. Sounds to me like they want to get info from us to try and counterattack our strengths. I don’t trust them…
    Maybe RD can give you her take….

  109. Eriezindian—Northeast Florida here and yes, definitely sounds like we could be sisters. Also, my sister in NC reports the same problem. It’s like there is a line up of sites to check every day–hoping something breaks. This is entirely the wrong time in history to experiment with a ‘fresh face.’ I don’t think the ‘party leaders’ have a clue about what is going on in this country with ordinary people.

  110. <i.bostonboomer, on July 3rd, 2008 at 12:02 pm Said:
    Denise W.,
    I don’t think it matters what their motives are. As long as Kim can find a way to get our message out, who cares? Since she has the final say on what is published, I think it’s worth a try.
    I’m with bostonboomer. Kim, if you’re interested, give it a whirl. You might end up making some converts or, at least, emboldening others to make their voices heard, too.

  111. KIM and Amazonia —

    The whole reporting-not-opinion part does reek of conversion attempts. However, given how clumsy and clueless their attempts have been so far, even when our reasons have been stated clearly and repeatedly across many outlets, I doubt it will aid their conversion attempts in any material way.

    On balance, I’m for it despite the dangers. One danger I haven’t seen mentioned yet is this: although I think this is probably 80% conversion-think on their part, HuffPo has also lost a lot of readers and more importantly, a lot of credibility through their ravaging Obama-boosting. They may be trying to regain that. As BO continues his rush to the Right, they stand to lose even more credibility.

    But getting the word out is important. One thing I’ve noticed in the anti-PUMA articles popping up is that they seldom backlink to any of the JustSayNoDeal sites or The Confluence, or any source that would allow readers to check things out for themselves. Lurkers at HuffPo, or the few Clinton supporters left there (and democracy small ‘D’) supporters would be able to see what we are really about because you can provide those references.

    And, as sad as it is, HuffPo is still considered a major progressive site by many. Even if it is ‘only’ reporting (and really, is there any ‘reporting’ left in America that is not riddled with opinion? Who are they trying to kid?) it may get the word out because of other sites that link to or watch HuffPo.

  112. Oops — addendum. The reason I mentioned HP’s credibility is that helping them regain their cred is also a danger — if it weren’t for the possibility of getting the word out I’d say let them die an ignominious death, and good riddance.

  113. Opps sorry for the double post. I didn’t complete my comment the first time before it went out.

  114. parentofed-yes, I think we need internet rehab or something. Haven’t even washed my face yet. A week ago our cable provider ( all hooked together with the internet) went out for a day and I almost went beserk. My sister says ‘take your hands off the keypad and back slowly away from the computer.’

  115. Hey guys!

    I don’t care where the donations are made as long as they are to retiring the debt. The “i” above takes you to a site that Just Say No Deal has established.

    I think we are safe with that.

    We are just running the totals for inspiration and fun in the process of getting this done.

    I would say donate to the above connection and post her as a group effort to know where we stand.

    RD – it’s up to you and yours to guide.


  116. BB

    I’m with you. Any publicity is good and I’m all for that. Like you said as long as whatever goes out is approved it would be good. I’m just a bit paranoid when it comes to them

  117. chatblu – Great!

    I thank you, PUMA thanks you and Hillary thanks you.

    Hill, Bill and Chelsea – keep watching. We will get this done.

    PUMA$ Who Donate Rock!

  118. MABlue – excellent on Leonard Zelig!
    I think B0 copied the Bush vs Gore campaign – which, BTW
    ANYONE can do it – if the media is behind them.
    It’s not as well known – since not covered by the media – but Gore did actually had support and huge rallies to which he was delivering
    good substantial speeches.
    The next day, W would stage another event (probably busing people
    over) and will delivered a watered down, vague version of
    whatever Gore just said “Of course we want health care”
    “Of course we’ll keep our promise to our seniors re: Social Security”
    Notice how I know what he said but not what Gore said
    as only one candidate was covered, the other was mocked.
    B0 did the same – and the debates were quite revealing in
    that respect. The one time he got asked questions first, he bombed and the ABC moderators trashed by all for exposing the hoax.
    Now that he can’t say “what she said” anymore, he’s reverting to his true neocon persona. Followers are shocked. Shocked,
    I tell ya! On some boards they even instituted an Orwellian rule
    “You can only criticize B0 if you can prove your bona fides as a supporter”. I kid you not!

  119. Denise W,

    I’m paranoid too, but you have to take risks to reap rewards.

  120. Here is the official link to contribute to retire Hillary’s debt. Saw it posted at Heidi Li’s and Allegre’s blogs


    Hillary created this link because of all the questions from people who didn’t know how to make sure their contributions would go for that purpose.

  121. […] I know what he said but not what Gore said as only one candidate was covered, the other was mocked.(see the threat of DMHO for excellent analysis of that) B0 did the same – and the debates were quite revealing in that respect. The one time he got asked […]

  122. parenteofed, if only I could translate this to money. I keep thinknig of George Carlin — minus the drugs and all, it wasn’t a bad life. He got paid to walk around and say true stuff. Not a bad life at all.

    And not a life a woman could lead, methinks. What’s “daring” and “inspirational” in a man is “insane” and “maudlin” when a woman does it. And just my luck for being cursed with tits and a uterus, eh?

  123. kim: I’m not going ever back to HuffPo, and that is one thing that is hard for non-PUMAs to grasp. This isn’t a tantrum, this has been a life-changing experience, and I question the moral and intellectual honesy of the Democratic Party.

    Also, no matter of hand-patting and looking into my eyes is going to sway me one damn bit. I am free from the progressive movement and free from the DNC. I feel more like Janis Joplin, with nothin left to lose in regards to them.

  124. Hey, I just got contacted by a MAJOR media outlet about my unity video!!! I’ll let you all know more as I find it out…..stay tuned!!!

  125. More thinking about the Baby Jesus and his inspirational yammering here.

    I remember wanting to reach straight into the computer screen and slap the shit out of Pam at Pandagon when she went off on how the Baby Jesus’s CYA speech after Wright’s sermons came out was ZOMG the moet INCREDIBLE THING she’d EVER HEARD LIKE ZOMG!!!!!!!!!!!! WOW! I wept buckets, oceans! Absolute RIVERS! THE MOST INCREDIBLE THING I’VE EVER HEARD!!!!! IT WILL GO DOWN IN HISTORY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I had to wonder whether she had eve reacted with that much histrionics to a speech by a woman about women’s oppression — and I knew she hadn’t, and that she never will. Despite identifying as a feminist. Going all streaky-faced revivalist about some dumbass chick whining about rape? Come on. Who cares.

    A woman cannot talk about the stuff we go through, because it’s not inspirational, it doesn’t move anyone least of all young feminists who simply can’t be arsed to actually care. They’ll occasionally link to nes stories about women who get their vaginas sawn off or raped and their eyes ripped out (like Dave Barry, I Am Not Making This Up) with some tongue clucking amidst theposts about dresses and shoes, but what gets them to experience a complete emotional catharsis that actually gets them to the ballot box?

    A guy. Making a speech that is plainly nothing but an attempt to mitigate damage to his political campaign. This was NOT “I Have Been To The Mountaintop,” here. Those were speeches made by someone who had worked and suffered, and who made them because they needed to be made, not because his ass got backed into a corner.

    She and other idiot fucking women will weep and rend their hair and fall to the ground witnessing angels when a man talks, but there is no way in hell their emotions could ever be moved to the same extent by a woman speaking of women’s oppression. This despite self-identifying as a feminist who “cares” about women’s issues.

    Here’s the newsflash for all the ladeez out there who missed it: YOUR PAIN DOESN’T MATTER. Now STFU and get back to work stuffing envelopes.

  126. GCH: Awesome! Do keep us in the loop.

  127. Our demographics?

    “Our name is legion, for we are many”

  128. parentofed: Neither will I, I found The Confluence after being beaten unmercifully at the HuffPost. I have stated many times and so have others, that it was like being cast out and shunned. I used to love Real Time, HuffPo, Dailykos, and listening to KO bash the Bush regime; after all, I was a democrat. But the beatings that HRC’s supporters took and the daily abuse that was heaped on our candidate has turned me into a refugee.

    The first day I found this site, I asked KB if I had finally found a refuge from the storm. I was welcomed and don’t think I have missed a day since.

  129. janis:

    I was at Balloon Juice on the day of “Teh Greatest Speech on Race EVAH” and I swear to Koresh two separate people claimed they were moved to tears just reading the text of the speech.

    But I had already posted a snarky comment before he even began speaking gushing how stupendously wonderful he was. The only thing anyone remembers about it now is him throwing his grandmother under the bus.

    It’s obvious that Obamanation sends the troops out after every speech and debate to flood the blogs with koolaid.

  130. garychapelhill, on July 3rd, 2008 at 12:45 pm

    wow!! that’s great 😀

  131. Speaking of radio shows…

    I am scheduled to be on Sirius Satellite’s Indie Talk channel…the show is “Blog Bunker” and will be a live phone interview (since I’m no longer in Jersey and can’t get to the NYC studio) on June 11 (Friday) and 5:30 ET, with a later repeat and another the next day.

    I’m at http://insightanalytical.wordpress.com

    Come visit.

    PS–I’d love to be on The Confluence’s blogroll…..

  132. GRL,

    what will you be discussing?

  133. KC–

    Yes! My 11 year old just looks at me and sadly shakes his head.

    yard mess-check
    dirty dishes/house/two weeks of laundry/-check
    late paying bills- check (bad girl)
    ass spreading wider by the minute-check

    Gary-that is so exciting! I can’t wait to hear more. I brag about you guys all the time.


  134. OCD-
    Online Compulsive Derangement

  135. You down with OCD?

    Yeah, you know me!

  136. myiq2xu,

    you’re not in Seattle are you? We could form a support group. I have no family left ( ‘cept Katirbird ).

  137. I just got interviewed by Abbi Tatton from CNN. she says she is working on the free speech issue . she didn’t say what or when she would report on it, but would let me know.

  138. CNN!

    The times they are a’changin….

  139. Gary,

    That’s wonderful! Please let us know when you find out anything.

  140. RD, in your hilarious list you omitted the ghastly use of ghastly dihydroxl oxygenate (forget exact sci term) in….


  141. JB:

    Not even close. I’m waaaay south of you in Central California.

  142. dotcommodity:

    Some psychos actually put that stuff in their whiskey!

  143. soupcity, on July 3rd, 2008 at 10:12 am Said:

    Hello all, looks like BO wants to shorten the convention to get a bounce in the polls, from the LA times:

    Oh yeah…good luck with that! (smirk)

  144. myiq: I’m pretty sure that stuff could be found in pretty much any bottle at my mom’s house when I was a teenager.

  145. myiq2xu and all,

    I love this community, and wish we could all have an actual cocktail party. I would meet everyone in person. It’s been so cool to get a glimpse of mawm and Gary, to hear RD’s voice. I’m a tactile person.

    I would probably need my scotch as a balance to the stimulation overload. I had been so deprived until I came here.


    I hope it airs tonight!

    River: Awesome post – again & again!

  147. Gary: That’s very encouraging news! Let’s hope your message is communicated intact.

    Joaniebone: So that’s what it’s called — OCD! You and your sister are so funny, by the way.

  148. Thanks Jules–we have a huge family, grew up with 8 kids and no $$. Humor is big in my world. It’s surprising that any of us have any left, and yet–here it is! Did I say how much I love this place???

    Smart and funny. The best combination.
    Confluence? Will you marry me?

  149. I found The Confluence after some asshole told me to “go sulk in my tent for the rest of the election” at The New Republic when I commented on an article regarding Hillary and sexism. You know, I have never been a believer of surrounding myself with nothing but people of like-mindededness, but I had to get some support from people who could tell me intelligently that I’M NOT CRAZY. None of the rest of you sound crazy. Pissed off, yes, but not crazy. So thank you one and all. I am still spreading the word about PUMA; already lost one client due to the FUD phenomena. Told her I wouldn’t be voting BO and proclaimed my PUMA-ness and she’s now holding me personally responsible for the downfall of the free world. Oh well. I guess I can use some extra free time in my day.

  150. “We want Hillary to be able to make her case to the superdelegates.”

    Why? So she can embarrass herself? He’s better off out of the race, and the Democrats are better off that way, too.

    Barack Obama “just words?” Someone hasn’t done her political research (and before you ask, no, I won’t do it for you).

  151. lrlandese:

    We don’t sound crazy to you because you are one of us.

    We’re all batshit insane, every last one of us.

  152. Gee, thanks Will.

  153. (giggle) Sister Julie is crashed out on the couch while niece Kyran plays video games on the floor and Dad reads the NYTimes by the window.

    I peak in to see what’s going on at Confluence and sister JoanieB is giving away family secrets! What kind of bizarro world is this?

    Jules (blushing) thank you!

  154. Will @ 3:19pm said:

    ” He’s better off out of the race, and the Democrats are better off that way, too.”

    I’d be inclined to agree. Too bad they fixed the race.

    Hi Joaniebone!

  155. jjmtacoma,

    Hi! When are we NW PUMAs getting together???


    I am so jealous that you are there and I’m not !! (haven’t seen sister Jules in years…) Another secret? 88 year old dad is a PUMA too! Kisses to my niecey!

  156. I don’t know about the NW PUMAs – I sent my email info but haven’t heard anything.

  157. myiq2x

    and drinking too much dihydroxl oxygenate based whiskey can turn you into a bum!

  158. Kim: LOL! So, the mighty Ahhriana wants to know what we’re up to, eh? Who wants to know? I’m getting the sense that in the past week we have gotten the attention of TIIC. So, who *ARE* we exactly? How many of us are there? How technologically and politically sophisticated are we? What is our Bull$#&* quotient?
    There is only one answer to that: We are *them*, or who they used to be. We are the chablis and brie crowd with a conscience who stuck to our principles. The difference is that we emerged from the working class, the immigrant community, the ignored, the shunned. On Abraham Maslow’s pyramid of needs, we are on our way to self actualization but we know what it’s like to be on the bottom of the pyramid. And we’re saying that everyone deserves self-actualization not just the people who were born closer to the top of the pyramid. We are the voice of the base. We have intertubez and we know how to use them.

  159. jjmtacoma,

    That was my mistake, and it’s because i’m not the most organized of organizers (scraps everywhere-more evidence of OCD). My apologies! Most of are in Seattle, and if you are willing, I think Monday nights are the get-together time.

    Will you send the contact again? I have a few really great people to introduce you to.

  160. So many topics….so little time. Here goes.

    Kim: FWIW I think posting on Huffn’Puff benefits Arianna more than us. We will go there to read you and eyeballs equal $$$ for her. Hard data on PUMAs will advantage anyone seeking to sabotage this movement. The people we should want to know @PUMA are more likely to be encouraged to come out of their closets and join our ranks by seeing our Hillary buttons and signs as a previous poster demonstrated.

    Re:WIKI I’ll make a note to amble over there and support free speech instead of O-correct speech.

    Re: Honeybees. I have been aghast at how long it has taken for the USDA and land grant university horticulture departments to start funding research on so-call “colony collapse”. Here in western Oregon I have had about a 10 fold drop in the bees in my yard in the last 2 years. Fortunately my blueberry and raspberry crops are still fairly robust, but this week I decided more drastic action was needed. I bought a Mason Bee nesting setup and a very good little book by Dr. Margriet Dogterom on how to ensure large numbers of these super pollinators for my garden.

    Re: GM Crops. Sigh…I too am a scientist and I agree the level of discourse on most topics having to do with health, nutrition, global warming etc. have suffered from scientific ignorance in the general population coupled with the propensity of the media to feature extreme views to increase their own revenues. That said, there is much to be concerned about regarding GM crops starting with the strong arm tactics of Monsanto. To keep this rant short: there is quite a difference between the selective breeding (the original genetic modification) of plants and animals practiced for millenia and what is going on now wherein genes from one species can be inserted into the genome of an entirely different species, including genes from animals into plants. However, over 80% of GM crops are modified for one reason only….to be resistant to the herbicide Round_Up. Unfortunately, studies have shown that weeds are becoming increasingly resistant to Roundup each year, requiring farmers to drench their fields and our environment with still more Roundup. Can you say “Cui bono”?. Nearly 100% of soybeans, corn and cotton are now GM and many trade associations insist that farmers use GM seeds. One consequence, for example, is that with rapid climate change some plants will adapt better than others. In the old days farmers would save these particular seeds and increasingly cultivate them….but now they are limited to buying the GM seeds which are designed to sell herbicide. So I do not view GM crops as a panacea when the culture we have created is unsustainable IMO.

  161. Oops. I forgot one other thing. Love the escrow fund idea…I have 2 different DSCC envelopes ready to return with appropriate PUMA comments and I have been averaging several per week since Hillary suspended her campaign. Ordinarily I would contribute to down ticket dems, but I am even being reluctant to do that. An escrow would be a terrific way to support this effort. Count me in.

  162. If I can get away, it sounds fun!

  163. jjntacoma,

    Got it! I will be in contact, and if Mondays don’t work, we can get together anytime anyway.

    Off now—back late tonight when everyone is going to bed—‘cept us late nite westcoasters and eastcoast insomniacs.

  164. Carol –

    This is really far down the thread, but – I figure $20.08 is not going to make or break me. I make my little donations to add to her number of documented supporters.

    Anyone –

    I have a question. I ended up on the Obama email list because I had to go there to get my ticket for the Unity event. So I figured I’d just stay on it, so I can see what they are up to. I’ve gotten messages about their training classes, etc. Anyway, they are organizing to sign up people to vote at the local events tomorrow, July 4th. What I was wondering is whether I could do some organizing for PUMA. I think there are some handouts that have been created, but I forget where. Any ideas?

  165. Fran,

    I wrote a good little succinct hand-out to introduce PUMA with contact info. If you are still reading this thread, leave your e-mail, and I’ll send.


  166. For those who wish to stay together in a long term commitment to the ideals and rinciples that Hillary Clinton has spent a lifetime promoting, http://Together4Us.com offers access for activists, funders, students, policy-makers and ordinary people to come together in support of each other and their goals for America. Please come to our website and join, use the code below to put our linked logo on your website and distribute our message and this code to all your network. Spread the word. We will be happy to put up a reciprocal link, your own co-branded web page on our site, or your own blog.

    Thanks so much,
    Gretchen Glasscock,

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