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Open Thread: Quiet and Thoughtful Night

Conflucians seem pensive tonight. Myiq2xu gifted us with a thoughful historical essay that took all that we have been talking about here for the past few months, gave it a historical context and tied it all together clearly and concisely. We can’t accept what the so-called “Democratic leaders” are doing to us. We won’t accept it. It’s just too much. We’re fed up with settling for crumbs and being offered third-rate candidates.

The PUMA movement has made so much progress already. Earlier today Riverdaughter wrote about the very real divisions in the Party–with even the blogger boys expressing some disappointment in the presumptuous nominee. Their mad crush is starting to wear off, and they are realizing their dream man is just an ordinary guy with lots of flaws. Then Gary and Maum shared more of their terrific videos from Unity, NH. Next they may go to an Obama gospel event in NC. With our heroes present, there could be some unexpected fireworks.

We don’t know what will happen between now and the end of August or between the end of August and November. If we just keep on putting one foot in front of the other, one step at a time, one day at a time, our organic grass roots movement will continue to grow and bear fruit. We are part of something bigger than ourselves. Sometimes it feels thrilling, sometimes we feel thoughtful, like tonight.

So what’s happening out there? Well, the Washington Post discovered that Barack Obama bought his dream mansion with a very big loan with a discount interest rate from a bank that has donated quite a bit to his campaign. Hmmm…interesting. Meanwhile thousands of Americans are unable to pay their mortgages and are losing their homes.

Cartoonist AnnTalnaes has a very clever comment on Obama’s recent “transformational” approach to church state separation. Melissa McEwan of Shakesville has a sad, but necessary piece the the guardian, Destroying Hillary.

Commenter Parentofed points us to a wonderful story about Hillary’s appearance in Syracuse, NY today. There is video as well. It’s nice to see Hillary out and about again.

Ooooh, here’s good one. MABlue recommended this piece by the WSJ that says out loud what us PUMAs have been thinking for awhile now. Obama’s running for Bush’s third term.

The folks at Corrente are planning a “symposium” to discuss a manifesto for blogosphere 2.0:

tomorrow, Thursday, at 5:00 PM, where we’ll share a draft Manifesto on this very point — and Big Tent Democrat has very kindly agreed to post and moderate for, because this thing of ours is bigger than we are, way bigger even than The Mighty Corrente Building.

Hmm…sound like something Conflucians might want to participate in.

148 Responses

  1. Good thoughts, bostonB — Like you, I’ve been over at Shakesville and found this “And Another Thing!“, by Paul the Spud. It’s an attempt to understand Obama’s Faith Based Organizations plans.

    Whatever BTD says, I think it’s still a shocking proposal for a mainstream Democrat. But, I’m the first to admit that I just can’t follow the layers of Obama’s sentences. I get lost half-way through and start day dreaming:

    So when Paul said this:

    Forget that “taking a page from President Bush” makes my skin crawl. Forget the “aggressive reach” for Republicans. Forget the “centrist themes” in regards to guns, spying on Americans (I refuse to call it “government surveillance”) and capital punishment. Forget the use of Reagan. All of this give me hives, but riddle me this, Batman:

    Why the hell should I be excited and agog about a Democratic Presidential candidate who is so goddamned eager to distance himself from “the left,” progressives, and everything I value?

    I just nod.

  2. PS, I’m assuming that the Corrente symposium is at 5pm EDT???

  3. Katiebird,

    Yes, but we were saying this back in December, weren’t we? Was Paul? Or is he just waking up to the reality of what Obama is?

  4. BB, I don’t know. I’m not sure I’ve ever read anything of his before…. (running off to look)

  5. Katiebird,

    It doesn’t say the time zone in the Corrente announcement, but I think Lambert and BTD are Easterners.

  6. Be sure to read Melissa’s article when you can stand it. It’s in the Guardian, so it should get some attention.

  7. Lambert is a Philly-delphian I believe.

    I, however, am a smog-eater who suffers from insomnia.

    I have my own thoughts on PB 2.0 but I’ll wait until Lambert makes his case.

  8. BB: The Guardian’s article on Destroying Hillary is very good, although I agree it’s very sad. Guess Part 2 is tomorrow [today].

    Also went to the Syracuse Post-Standard & watched the video of Hillary there. She seemed a lot happier there than she has been at the forced unity gatherings; she seemed more like the “old” Hillary in those. BTW, a lot of the comments were just awful, none of them were original thoughts. I could trace the source of every one, Tweety, Olbermann, whatever.

  9. Part 2 is there. There is a link at the bottom of Part 1.

  10. Since Carol isn’t here to bug EVERY ONE… may I just channel her a minute and say it’s Independence Day … $20.08 to HIllary to Help RETIRE HER DEBT!!!

    Deliver her to Denver DEBT FREE!!!!


    Okay, that was the commercial …

    I’m back to my chardonnay!!!

  11. Actually I’m really glad for this reminder. I started reading it earlier today when I was still extremely sleepy. So this reminder now that I’m awake is perfect.

    Although I hesitate to leave here now that I’m awake enough for the first time in days to appreciate everyone.

  12. Parentofed,

    I added the Syracuse link. Thanks for the tip.

  13. Katiebird,

    It’s so nice to have you here. I hope you say for awhile.

  14. (grinning)

  15. BB: don’t know how I missed that link to Part 2, which was every bit as depressing as Part 1.

    I want all of this season documented to the nth degree; I want people to be unable to later deny that it happened; I want people to study it and I hope that it acts as a deterrent. I want to cram it down Pelosi’s throat.

  16. What do you guys think about the article in the WP about Obama’s mortgage. He borrowed well over a million dollars and got a fixed rate of 5.6 percent. Thirty year mortgage. Nice.

  17. You guys are quiet, so I’ll just comment on a lttle something I’ve noticed. I live in E Kentucky, and we know it’s Hillary country. There are a very few Obama signs, and most are still up. I was driving around quite a bit yesterday, towns and country both, and it struck me that absolutely no one has bothered any of those Obama signs. We’re labeled rough rednecks and all, but I’ve watched those signs for a couple of months, and they’re just like new. I’m impressed with that.

  18. http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/jul/02/hillaryclinton.uselections2008

    Part 2 link above! I added two notes to this paragraph:

    Not content to merely destroy the entire Democratic party single-handedly, Hillary Clinton was hell-bent on murder. Evidently having failed to satiate her bloodlust after murdering Vince Foster – or such was the claim of her ideological enemies, a charge still being chanted like a demonic incantation by rightwing pain-maker Rush Limbaugh – now she was openly lusting for the assassination of her opponent, Barack Obama. (That is not to suggest there were no legitimate concerns about her statement.

    [My note: This made a point to politicos who remembered June primaries in California, but come on, not intended as more than a date marker. The Obama camp, when it still thought Obama might best McCain in a debate, wanted to have Lincoln/Douglas style debates while both were presumptive nominees–stating the precedence of JFK before his assassination.]

    And Randi Rhodes – a “progressive talk radio personality” – fresh from calling Clinton a “fucking whore,” fanned the same flames when she announced fearing for her life after delivering the insult to someone who routinely has her enemies whacked.

    [Randi Rhodes will say anything to gain notoriety.]

  19. The mortage won’t change anyone’s opinion of Obama one way or another. Those who think he’s a manipulator will have their fears confimed, those who worship him won’t be swayed, and it’s not enough to sway any undecideds.

  20. I’m trying hard to shake a feeling of ennui. PUMA lends an occasional sense of excitement, but then I wonder if it’s totally an “against” thing as opposed to an actual “for” thing, and I wonder if that will have staying power.

    I feel some personal discomfort being united *against* someone. it’s worse because it’s against the first viable AA candidate for president. this is something I’ve wanted, something I’ve hoped for. I’m sad that it was this candidate, because he, in my opinion, is not what we as a country need, and specifically not what african-americans needed. I firmly believe someone should speak to their interests. he isn’t the one to do that.

    Hillary would have been a great president for everyone. it’s so sad the way this all came down.

    ennui – my new favorite word

  21. After AA took back Rhodes, I knew I’d never listen to it again. Ever.

  22. It figures. For once I’m wide awake at midnight and the joint has cleared out. Looks like it’s just the three of us.

    Parentofed, I don’t think Hillary fans are as much into sabatage as the O-bots. I could be wrong, though. Maybe there are a lot of old deadender women out there tearing down Obama signs and I just haven’t heard about it. LOL.

  23. Ennui is a good fit here.

  24. Hello—I started my post-primaries/campaign blogging here at RD’s on the day that everyone was e-mailing Donna Brazile, so I am unfamiliar with the neighborhood. If I’m able to be available for the 5:00PM symposium tommorrow, do I just need to hit the “Corrente” link?

  25. I’ve commented several times about Mitch McConnell, and how his polls are pretty bad. He’s usually arrogant, but he’s worried and nicer right now.

    Discussing the polls today in KY, he remarked about his value to KY, that as a senior Senator, he’s bringing us 500M a year, compared to the measly 30M a freshman Senator brings in another state.

    I remember so well that I can see the newspapers from the 1990s and 2000 about how Repubs were fiscally sound, while Dems spend. McConnell ridiculed former Dems who had brought home bacon to KY, and said these Dems were raiding the Treasury, etc.

    McConnell; he has no sense of irony.

  26. What has the DNC wroth. Well, just that, intense anger. Votes, ignored, and taken for granted. No accountability. Playing us for fools, because we are. We have trusted, and trusted them. Well there is only one way to end this. Defeat Obama. And you destroy the DNC.

  27. I too am unable to sleep.

  28. Well, that makes 5 of us — hiya friends.

  29. I tried signing up for Corrente. Unfortunately I have still not been given the ability to post. Sigh. I am more then ready for 2.0.

  30. Kiki,

    I don’t see us as just *against* Obama. What we are doing is refusing to do what is expected and even demanded of us and choosing to think for ourselves. It’s not all about Obama, just as it wasn’t just about Hillary. This is something I’ve been wanting to write about, but I haven’t found a way to do it yet.

    In a sense, we are on strike against the DNC. We will no longer be told what to do. Sometimes walking the picket line gets discouraging, but if we hang together, we are stronger than as individuals. I think it’s really important not to buy into the corporate media narratives.

  31. CWaltz,

    Lambert is very slow to respond to registration requests. I must have waited at least a month before I got accepted. I thought I’d been blackballed.

  32. PofEd,

    I’m glad you mentioned Mitch — he’s the most fortunate repug on the Hill — if Hillary was/is the nominee, he would be toast. KY loves big on the Clintons.

  33. are people going to the convention? I keep toying with the idea. it would be a stretch, finance-wise, so it would have to have a meaningful purpose.

  34. I don’t remember waiting at all for my Corrente account. But for some reason I have to log in twice to make it “take” — really weird….

  35. I guess what I don’t understand is how a candidate can come out with a platform of “hope” and “change” and then just as easily back right into the current GOP positions without anyone in the MSM batting an eye.

    The latest statement regarding faith based initiatives sent chills down my spine. This is a Bush directive. It did not work. However, we know when you shake hands with those devils they want something in return. Namely, SC appointments. So now that we have been threatened with the possibility of McCain naming rightwing nutcases to the SC, shouldn’t this also apply to the empty suit?

    Yet no one says a word. It is almost like Cheney uttering “so?” when asked about Iraq.

  36. kiki, I’m afraid of crowds. And not anxious to spend a week in a free-speech zone. So probably not.

  37. Oh good, some more regulars are arriving. Pat, we got another hailstorm today. What is with this weather?

  38. (waving) Pat! I don’t think we’ve been here at the same time in ages!

  39. Could McCain run any less interesting campaign than he has up to now?

  40. Katiebird,

    You probably got in because Lambert is sweet on you.

  41. Would someone please let me know anything about the thing tommorrow?

  42. Obama totally sealed the deal with me on the Faith Based Initiatives things. I wouldn’t vote for him for the Sewage and water board even now. He’s not suitable for any office, let alone the presidency. Used to think he was not ready for prime time, but i’ve changed my opinion, he’s not ready for ANY time.

  43. BB, I think you’ve got it backwards — I’m sweet on him! Sadly, he’s never expressed a preference in my direction….

  44. katiebird: I have to take leave at times. This whole campaign gets to me. I hate injustice and that is how I perceive this. The country is in such a mess and the two people presented to us are each totally unacceptable. You have no real idea of which way to turn. Voting Repub is against every fiber of my being yet I cannot see myself voting Obama. Also against every fiber of my being. Too sad. So I tune out for awhile and force myself to regroup.

  45. Pat,

    I think it would be really uninteresting if Romney is the VP, don’t you? McCain is an old bore and listening to Obama and his self-righteous lectures is getting more boring by the day. I guess he’s going to lecture the country a few more times over the long weekend.

  46. BB, that’s good. my feelings are more against the democratic party. it seems like every time I see a PUMA spokesperson, they emphasize the against Obama thing. I understand that, but I sometimes feel that it plays into the “bitter, racist” smear campaign. I know that’s not what they mean. honestly.

    I may not be seeing the big picture. what I’d like is the feeling of “this is what I’m FOR”, not “this is what I’m against”

  47. kiki, I understand the discomfort of voting against the first AA candidate.

    There’s been zero political talk in my local newspaper, so I wrote a letter to the editor; it was published today. I said I wasn’t voting for Obama no matter what. I even quoted RD by name.

    I meant every word of it, but my husband & I are quite well known as liberals in this little town. I hope the letter doesn’t hurt the feelings of our AA acquaintances. My husband especially has some strong ties there. Every year on MLK Day, the NAACP has a church service and choir. My husband is invariably the only white person in the choir.

  48. When I read these diaries I feel inadequate in expressing what I feel. They do it for me at least.

  49. boston, same here:

    I think of corrente wire as like an exclusive club, they check you out exhaustively before they let you in. Then they don’t have to moderate.

    Or they don’t get around to it out of laziness……

  50. Did anyone hear about the idea of Gephardt for VP? They were floating it on the Kansas City, MO news tonight. The idea is that Gephardt is wildly popular among working class Democrats and with him on the ticket Obama would triumph.

  51. parentofed, on July 3rd, 2008 at 12:08 am Said:

    After AA took back Rhodes, I knew I’d never listen to it again. Ever.

    Is it true AA took back Rhandi Rohodes? I stooped listening to “progressive” radio during the primaries because I couldn’t take it anymore, not even Mike Malloy who was my favorite.

    If AA too Rhandi back, I’ll be praying for their demise. I can’t believe even “Liberals” that were help by the Clibntons would be unable to lay a line people should simply not cross.

  52. I felt excited and energized when Jesse Jackson ran for President. I was proud to vote for him.

  53. McCain/Romney would be a bad ticket. But Obama and anybody else would be the same. I am so unenthused about this race since Hillary suspended and so let down by the DNC that I fluctuate between anger and frustration. Today they mentioned Gephardt. Gephardt for God’s sake!!

  54. Okay, then. Goodnight.

  55. MABlue,

    Mike Malloy was my favorite too. I almost put him on tonight to see what he would stay about the faith-based initiatives, but I just don’t care what he thinks anymore. He sold out as far as I’m concerned–because of CDS.

  56. the night is young in CA,

    are all of you yawning sleepless types all easteners?

  57. lol, McCain, Romney, Obama……..possibly the three most boring men on the planet.

    the lack of Hillary really takes the interest quotient down below zero.

  58. Randi Rhodes is back at AA? What is wrong with these people? Disgusting. Now can you see why my mood fluctuates? Nothing makes sense.

  59. Karolina NYC,

    I don’t know what they are going to do at Corrente tomorrow. I just noticed it a little while ago. I think just go over there and the symposium will be at the top.

    Sleep well…

  60. MABlue and boston:

    did you hear Maddow last night? Having conniptions about FISA. Shocked, shocked that Obama would do something so………bipartisan.

  61. Pat,

    I do believe that moving Steve Schmidt to McCain’s campaign manager will invigorate the campaign. He is quite adept at characterizing the opposition and I think that is the genesis of the move.

    The straw that broke the elephant’s back was the onslaught geared toward dismantling McCain’s war record. Not a soul in the MSM has taken that on as a cause.

  62. dot: Western MA. Bostonboomer down in the Boston area.

  63. dotcommodity,

    My sister called me at about 10:15 and that is why I’m so wide awake. I was starting to get sleepy and then the phone rang. She lives north of San Fran. near Santa Rosa.

  64. Hugs to everyone! I’m off to bed. Sooner or later I’ve got to finish this adjustment period. And I’m hoping that by going to bed at a reasonable time it will actually be sooner…


  65. Prolix: if Obama is the nominee, Mitch will be re-elected. It would almost be worth seeing Obama win, just to see him try to deal with the likes of Mitch. I don’t like Mitch at all, but dumb he ain’t.

    BTW, did you all hear today about the new Obama ad entitled Dignity? Hope. Change. Judgment. Dignity.

    The Mon o sy llab ic Man

  66. Both candidates stink. Yet one will beat the other and become president. Amazing that this year out of all past elections we should have had a candidate we could at least make a pretense of liking. But no.

  67. dot,

    Really? I wonder what she thinks about the faith-based initiatives. I’ve stopped listening to “progressive radio” altogther and don’t watch MSNBC, so I haven’t heard her in awhile.

  68. Does Obama travel with a dictionary? He seems to be good at picking out the simple words at least.

  69. As for Rhodes, I refuse to listen to AA anymore so I’m can’t provide first-hand verification. However, after her 2-week suspension, I read in several reputable sources [can’t think who those are right this second] that she quietly came back. Evidently, the suspension didn’t slow her down any; she went back to trashing Clinton and griping about their censorship tactics.

  70. PofEd,

    Agreed about Mitch, but he is as sophisticated in his political strategy as just about anyone in the last 50 years. He’s much more adept at sub rosa landmines than Trent or Newt ever were.

    If Mitch has 40+ in the Senate, there will be at least two years of the biggest mudhole of politics we have ever witnessed.

  71. I never had a high opinion of Rhodes, but I’ve been very disappointed in Rachael. Hell, I wrote letters to MSNBC suggesting they toss out Tucker, and put her in his place. Glad they never listen to my suggestions.

  72. I listen because I think it provides some clue as to what the DNC is thinking.

    woah that sounfds tinfoily…….but. About March, RR said Ed Schultz was ‘paid by the DNC to trash Hillary”

    so I check in to see if theres any change of heart….as if its a view into the DNC.

    Like I do think there is some significance to kos about face. Finally finding one thing that is his last straw: FISA..

  73. I said it before: I admire those of you who still have the stomach to watch TV and listen to some of these cretins. I don’t and I don’t even miss it.

    What am I gonna watch? Arianna and Kos speaking for progressives? I rather watch a horse sh*tting on a parade route than watch something that macabre.

  74. I like that article about Hillary in central New York. I am so glad that she is my Senator. We love her here in New York!!!!!She won re-election by 67%. She is very hard working and really does good work. SHE WOULD HAVE BEEN A GREAT PRESIDENT!!!

    I HOPE SHE RUNS IN 2012.

  75. I’ve gotta get to bed – work in the morning. I’m so glad for a 3 day weekend after tomorrow!

    I am very thankful to know all of you. honestly!

    I’m not sure how I’d be functioning without this place.

    y’all lighten the ennui……………….

  76. Prolix, even JIm Bunning, who is a total idiot, is beginning to cheer up. Earlier this year, there was talk of him retiring, but he’s looking chipper and talking of re-election. In 2004, he stumbled around like he was senile, and Mitch had to come back to KY and campaign all over the state to save his ass. Even then, he was nearly defeated by the guy who is now the Lt Gov, and a strong Obama supporter.

    Any questions about Bunning’s happy new demeanor?

  77. ………..Maddow is not a cretin,

    though RR is shrill and limbaughlike – she wants dittoheads. I think the idea was that the DNC would try and get that toe the line mentality of Rethugs that keeps them in office.

  78. kiki, its not ennui, its quiet desperation……….


  79. parentofed, on July 3rd, 2008 at 12:49 am Said:

    Any questions about Bunning’s happy new demeanor?

    New meds.

  80. Wait patiently (or eagerly) like a puma..something doesn’t add up here.
    My hunch is that sanity will win out. Obama has a great image for TV, very
    attractive and good speech-reading abilities at time–at other times he seems a flummoxed as Bu$h. I would be enthusiastic about him if he stayed in the Senate for awhile
    and made a name for himself, or if he wanted to jump the gun,
    was a VP for eight years, and then President for eight years. The media
    that is selling him hasn’t done a good job of giving me any positive
    details about what Obama has done for his constituents–the ones
    who don’t live in million-plus mansions in Hyde Park. Sadly, influence
    peddling seems very likely.

    And it is sad that the first viable AA candidate is one who
    had to construct his identity since his father was a short-term resident
    of another country who left his son behind to be raised by his white mother and grandparents in
    Hawaii. When students at the U. of Hawaii who knew Obama, Sr. visited
    him in Kenya, they were shocked that he did not mention his
    son or Stanley Ann.

    Julian Bond was my hero, one of my favorite politicians. I had hoped
    he would be president, regardless of his race. He can give brilliant speeches on any topic–
    I know because he answered a request of mine to speak at
    a convention as a keynote speaker. I’ll never forget how enthusiastic
    his State Senate booker was (there was no fee)and how brilliantly he spoke. I am certain that he wrote his own speech. Maybe having
    heard speeches by the likes of Julian Bond, Obama was oversold
    to me. When I tuned in, I found his lackluster “Yes, we can” chant
    at some early small rally not inspiring. Tuning in to Hillary next was
    amazing. She is brilliant. Operating on multi-dimensional levels.

  81. Well, nobody asked me, but I’ll tell you what I think.
    I’m FURIOUS!!!
    This whole farce of a charade of a joke with no punchline ticks me off.
    Every day I get madder and madder.
    I hate being manipulated, especially by people too stupid to be good at it.
    Ghost-written TelePrompted president by shadow committee administrations suck and I refuse to participate in this years version starring Ohblahummahyaknow
    No ennui for me.
    Just good, old-fashioned gut clenching outrage.

  82. Ed Schultz? Crap, I remember writing letters and petitions and phone calls to get him on the Armed Services Radio. Remember that? It was Wes Clark that spear headed that drive, and it was partially successful.

    Earlier today, I threatened to burn my faux progressive books: Kos, Kerry, Arianna, etc. I’d like to recall some of my petitions, etc. How about how some of us worked for Moveon?

    hmmm, I seem the only one with spit & vinegar tonight. Kinda late for bile, maybe?

  83. CB said:

    Obama was oversold
    to me. When I tuned in, I found his lackluster “Yes, we can” chant
    at some early small rally not inspiring. Tuning in to Hillary next was
    amazing. She is brilliant. Operating on multi-dimensional levels.

    BZero is playing checkers — one dimensional and the goal is to be kinged while Hillary understands the nuance of governing.

  84. Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics filed a complaint which triggered an initial inquiry into Senators Dodd and Conrad. Let’s ask Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics to file a similar complaint regarding Barack Obama (for which they will probably be called racists by the Obama Hopium denizens).

    Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics website HERE. Email Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics HERE. Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington, 1400 Eye Street NW, Suite 450, Washington, D.C. 20005, 202.408.5565

  85. Good night, Katiebird. When I quit my job in 1986, I felt sleepy for a couple of months. I don’t know why that happens. It’s the stress of the transition, I guess.

  86. There, josgirl seems to share my mood.

    As for me, I don’t really think the SDs will change. The only way Hillary is likely to be our nominee is if something really damning comes out & Obama withdraws. My opinion.

  87. BB:

    One very good piece you forgot to add. It’s Wednesday’s editorial from the WSJ:

    Bush’s Third Term

    We’re beginning to understand why Barack Obama keeps protesting so vigorously against the prospect of “George Bush’s third term.” Maybe he’s worried that someone will notice that he’s the candidate who’s running for it.

    Most Presidential candidates adapt their message after they win their party nomination, but Mr. Obama isn’t merely “running to the center.” He’s fleeing from many of his primary positions so markedly and so rapidly that he’s embracing a sizable chunk of President Bush’s policy. Who would have thought that a Democrat would rehabilitate the much-maligned Bush agenda?

    The editorial board goes through the long list of Obama’s flip flops and here is what these guys expect next, rightfully so:

    Next up for Mr. Obama’s political blessing will be Mr. Bush’s Iraq policy. Only weeks ago, the Democrat was calling for an immediate and rapid U.S. withdrawal. When General David Petraeus first testified about the surge in September 2007, Mr. Obama was dismissive and skeptical. But with the surge having worked wonders in Iraq, this week Mr. Obama went out of his way to defend General Petraeus against MoveOn.org’s attacks in 2007 that he was “General Betray Us.” Perhaps he had a late epiphany.

    Look for Mr. Obama to use his forthcoming visit to Iraq as an excuse to drop those withdrawal plans faster than he can say Jeremiah Wright “was not the person that I met 20 years ago.”


  88. parentofed, the only way this blowhard can make to the convention as the nominee is if he goes into hiding until then and lets his surrogates and enablers take over.
    If he stays in the limelight, he’s toast.
    And I think everybody knows it.

  89. MABlue,

    That’s funny, because I watch the animal channel these days. Animal channel or the Red Sox. That’s pretty much it.

  90. The WSJ editorial is making sense? God, but I hate this primary season.

  91. MABlue,

    I added the WSJ link. Thanks!

  92. I can’t wait for BZero to say, “Ahmadenajad is not the man I knew when Kim Jong Il, Wright, Farrakhan and I went on mission trips, but I’m sure I can talk him back to the Ahmadenajad I knew and respected…”

  93. re: the link in tonight’s post to the article about Hillary’s appearance upstate NY: The article is wonderful, but she is being totally trashed in the comments if anyone would like to come to her defense. Looks like hater country up there.

  94. Prolix,

    I can’t wait for the day when Obama says James Dobson isn’t the man he thought he knew. Another thing I’ve been wondering about. Is Rev. Wright’s book still coming out in the fall? That might be an interesting read.

  95. josgirl, WE know he’s toast, but will the SDs over rule Dean/Brazile/Pelosi etc? Is everyone terrified of AA voters? Would it be too late? I remember the McGovern/Eagleton fiasco. A lot of folks worried about McGovern’s judgment in the first place, that he hadn’t vetted Eagleton. Not many defended Eagleton, but it was just so messy, McGovern looked silly and he never appeared Presidential after that.

  96. I thought McGovern should have stood up for Eagleton. Depression isn’t a character fault. But I was an idealist then.

  97. You are right about that MABlue. I’ve been telling people that he is the next Bush. He has been marketed the same way.

  98. Dean/Brazile/Pelosi etc., don’t care if he wins.
    I can’t remember where I read it, but it seems that the knock on the Clintoons is that they don’t have “coattails” that downticket Dems can ride into office.
    Supposedly Obiteme does.
    That’s the justification that was used against HRC to get her to suspend.
    I hope they all get voted out.
    I wish every American would agree to sit this one out since we’re all getting screwed from both sides.
    Let ’em fight it out amongst themselves.
    They deserve each other.

  99. I meant Clintons, I’m a lousy typist and I’m p*ssed.

  100. Yeah, I didn’t hold it against him but most people objected not because of the depression per se, but the ECT, and the possible memory blocks. Although I do remember hearing a couple of very liberal Dems say that depression is a mental illness, and the President of the US shouldn’t be mentally ill.

    haha, with what we’ve had for 8 years, that’s a pretty funny statement.

  101. BB,

    What BZero doesn’t understand is the Faith Based Initiative’s $500M is just pocket money for Dobson — last I heard the most unRev. Wright’s book is still due this fall. The fight will come when it is between the $$$ and pre-election publication.

    For what it’s worth, I still believe the National Press Club fiasco was planned for BZero to try and put the nail in that coffin. On every press opportunity BZero said, “I wish he hadn’t done that…” He brought it up even when he wasn’t asked.

  102. I’d say Nixon was pretty warped, wouldn’t you? Very paranoid.

  103. BO wants people to look at the side shows to distract from his inexperience and lack of a record, not to mention his inability to take a stand on any issue.

  104. Ok I have been forced to listen to Fox, Fox talk or America Right for the past few months. I do not have cable TV, Iknow but I do not watch TV, to depressing. But I have come to love Fox this year because of theway they treated Hillary fairly and her preformance on O’Rieley was wonderful. My main point was that I listen to John Gibson on Fox Talk all of the time and the Obama supporters are soooooooooo stupid. Gibson will ask them to name one thing that he ever did in the Senate and they can not, he will ask them to name the one issue that they stand behind Obama with and they can not. He will ask them to name three of his policies and they can not. He will tell then that he will not drill and raise your taxes and fuel prices and the idiots think that Obama is going to change his mind about drilling, one girl said that she is voting for Obama because he is going to pay off her college debts, how stupid is she. Another said that she was voting for Obama because he was cute. This is the mentality of the Obama supporter. I can name every policy that Hillary had and how she would pay for it and on the issues she stood strong for and the issues that she would move on, none of the Obamabots can and that is really sad for this country.

  105. Yeah, Nixon was very paranoid. I think wife Pat is pretty fascinating. They seemed happy, but her a chain smoker, and living with him. Bet she was the only person he really trusted.

    You & I seem around the same age, BB, and I’ll bet you’re as stunned as I am by Obama-Kennedy comparisons. I see nothing there, nothing. Obama sure is thin-skinned like Nixon, though.

  106. Obama stands on no issue, he changes is position everytime there is a new poll out.

  107. Nixon definitely presented as a paranoid personality type.

  108. Yes, he does sway with the polls. He does know that everything he says is reported, right?

  109. I see nothing in comparison with Kennedy and Obama, Kennedy was a war hero and tried and tested in most things, he rallied a nation but he did not piss off the other half.

  110. BO has zero resemblance to JFK. JFK was a war hero. He had lived abroad as a young man and traveled widely. He had been in Congress for close to 12 yearsa before he ran for prez. And he was quite a bit younger than BO too, 42. Most of all, JFK was a fiercely partisan Democrat.

  111. You are right Kim, Obama is no Kennedy. I believe Kennedy served in the house prior to the senate, so he definitely had more experience.

  112. parentofed, you mentioned everybody being terrified of African American voters.
    In my opinion that’s just a ruse, one that’s symptomatic of all that is wrong with Obama’s candidacy.
    He’s using black voters, playing on our desire to have effective representation at the highest levels of government, all the while knowing that he’s incapable of delivering any such thing.
    However, it gives him the leverage that you mentioned with the sheep who run the DNC, whose well meaning, misguided liberalism is being used against them to Ohellno’s advantage.
    He’s playing everybody.
    Think about it, his blackness didn’t help him against Bobby Rush and it probably was a non-factor in his sham of a race against Alan Keyes.
    Manipulating race and racism without regard to the magnitude of the potential negative effects is what infuriates me the most.
    Everything else he does just re-enforces how vile and incompetent he is.

  113. I would just like to see one thing Obama actually stands on and doesn’t change his mind or position on. Does anyone know what that is?

  114. “I’m not for it or against it. I just want to be President.” – Backtrack Obama, D.C., 30-Feb-09.

  115. Yeah, I can’t believe I’m tuning into Fox. Of course, Fox has been known to pick individuals just to make them look foolish. Remember how every Iraq war protester sounded like a doofus. I suspect they don’t have to look very hard for some goofy Obamite, though.

  116. Got me. Can’t think of a single thing that he hasn’t “changed” on.

  117. Well, he has been for the faith-based initiatives all along. It was in his book. But, who knows, he could still switch on that too. I don’t think he has any core values.

  118. Obama is playing on the WHITE GUILT. The hard core liberals love guilt and will use it when ever they can. I am a Blue dog Democrat so guilt does not work on me. I want fisical responsibility and reform. That is not Obama at all.

  119. I was mistaken- It appears Joey has found one thing.

  120. We need fiscal responsibility and reform and unfortunately neither candidate can provide that, in mt opinion. We really need Hillary, she would have provided what this country needs!!!!!!!!!

  121. The thing I remember about Kennedy was how smart he was, how funny he was. He might be famous for his prepared speeches, but he was more like Clinton; he could just talk, just like that, and sound really smart.

    BB: Obama won’t lose his faith-based initiatives, there’s money galore there to give back to his supporters.

  122. But did you hear that he is dorecting his Faith Based group to the inner cities because the middle class does not need them. They teach their children during the summer and the inner cities do no lol. I was awe strck by that one.

  123. The poor loose reading abilities during the summer, the middle class do not because there family structure is stronger lol so the money needs to be diredted to the poor inner city areas.

  124. JFK’s press conferences were fun to watch. He could really think on his feet. It’s been a long time since we had a prez who could do that.

    OK, folks, I’m off to bed. Nice talking to you..

  125. All I know is I believe in separation of church and state, pure and simple.

  126. Kim, I suspect his associates are already in place for the inner-city faith-based money collection; less visibility and accountability there for him. Preferences for minority contractors, etc. We know that Trinity and the church of Fr Pfelger [sic] have received grants through Obama.

  127. Good night, all.

  128. Kiki,
    Here’s how I see it.

    What I’m for is standing up for my/our rights. In this case, the right not to be abused and demeaned. The right not to be totally dismissible. We damn well expect these rights from the Democratic Party.

    When the abused wife walks out, yes, she is being against something, her husband’s treatment of her. She is simultaneously for something: her rights. Her rightful power.

    The only power I have in this situation is my vote. The power to withhold it is good for my morale. High morale is one of our most important products.

  129. I don’t think PUMA is just against obama.
    For a lot of years the american people took voting for granted.
    Until 2000 and 2004 the election results were not questioned.
    For me I hope PUMA stays operational for years to remind us to be vigilant about our voting rights.
    We can not ever let party bigwigs override the will of the american people again.



  130. Quiet and thoughtful nite… Thank you BB, rd, kb and everyone on this site. You have the gift to know when we need to rest to recoup for the next go ’round. I stumbled upon this place a few months ago after being frustrated watching the “news” and not finding the answers to my questions. I feel so grateful that I found this haven. Sleep in peace…

  131. Click on http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/7/1/05546/22532/562/544544 to get a load of kos whining about teh Precious:

    Ultimately, he’s currently saying that he doesn’t need people like me to win this thing, and he’s right. He doesn’t. If they’ve got polling or whatnot that says that this is his best path to victory, so much the better. I want him to win big. But when the Obama campaign makes those calculations, they have to realize that they’re going to necessarily lose some intensity of support. It’s not all upside. And for me, that is reflected in a lack of interest in making that contribution.

    One of his fed-up readers unloads:

  132. I’m an Independent Centrist. I think the only way to beat Obama is to tie him to Soros and his buddies and the ECONOMY relating to HEDGE FUNDS and SPECULATORS. Back in 2005 when the ARM came out with teaser rates below what banks could borrow money, business people on TV said that they were great to have if you only planned on having them for a couple of years then you should refinance. They also said that foreclosures would increase on them when they reset. This was 2005 when they first came out big. Last summer when all of the foreclosures started, I blamed the Democrats in an attempt to gain control of the White House since they control most of the finanial institutions. The Democrats are the ones who want to reward the banks for their deeds.
    Everyone keeps saying we don’t have a food shortage or gas shortage and that it is speculators driving up the prices on commodities. Soros is part of a group on speculators. Soros helped in the campaign of Howard Dean in 2004 and he is leader of the Democratic party. He is also in with a couple of other top Democrats in Congress. I read that Soros doesn’t trade on the US because he doesn’t want to deal with US regulations.
    If Obama is the nominee in August, I am registering to vote for the first time in my life.

  133. does anyone think obama’s recent tack to the center right and throwing everyone under the bus sound liKe goodnight and thank you…from evita:

    for your morning enjoyment…maybe obama was singing this when he threw dear arianna and moveon.com under the bus

    well time for work-


  134. In answer to the question is PUMA for something or against something, I say it is FOR Democracy, for the People and for holding the Democratic Party to account.

  135. for your morning enjoyment a song imagine it is Senator Obama singing it to all his supporters right before he throws them under the bus-

    morning fuzzy bear is staying up to 1201 am tonight to be the first one to make a conflu contribution to hillary to retire our debt


  136. I can understand anyone that isn’t comfortable with being a part of something that is all “anti” anything. I don’t see PUMA in those terms.

    PUMA is “anti-Obama” but it is so much more. I see PUMA as being “for” honest government and a Democratic Party that sticks too and believes in the principals that all liberals thought they were getting with a Democrat.

    We have found, to our dismay that our Democratic Party has devolved into a party that resembles the Republicans they excoriated for all these years. I don’t like Democratic thugs, liars and hypocrites anymore than I like the same qualities in Republicans. In fact I like them less. Because all this time they claimed to be better than that. And they lied.

    I am for getting rid of all the flim-flammers and DINOs in the Democratic Party. I am for the government being of the people, for the people and by the people. I am for PUMA and movements that support those values.

    PUMAcrats love their country. Obamacrats love their Obama.

  137. “josgirl” Your right , that’s their complaint. Tom Daschle ( the one who’s own state voted him out & couldn’t deliever SD to BO on 06/03). His big thing is to “BLAME” Bill Clinton for “them” losing the House & the Senate in 1996! They also “didn’t like that BC worked with the republicans to get things done “!!
    “They” want the democratic version of Bushes, “it’s my way or the highway”! That’s why I fight on!!

  138. Re: Air America–I haven’t listen to “liberal” talk radio for months. Mike Malloy was fired from AA years ago and signed on with Nova M. I believe I read that Randy R moved to Nova M as well.

  139. And sorry but I don’t want to participate in anything that has BTD involved. I quit posting there after Senator Clinton suspended her campaign but would drop in form time to time to read.

    Lately I feel like I need to take a bath.

    BTD is continually suggesting that Senator McCain is “unstable”. He also wrote 3 or 4 posts about McCain’s “whining” about the Wes Clark remarks.

    I do not support this kind of smear against ANY candidate, left or right. I loathe those that do this. If you can’t beat someone on the issues then STFU.

    Any respect I had for talkleft or BTD is gone.

  140. BB. thanks for last night answering my concern about today’s thing at Corrente. I wanted to stick around and join in the conversation, but by evening I am ususally to exhausted to think well enough to connect.

  141. I think the “anti-Obama” part of PUMA is there necessarily in order to acheive the goal of Hillary getting the nomination in the end. He has to be broadly discredited. But PUMA is a patriotic movement, leveraging our voices to protect the sanctity of our Democracy first and foremost. I love it that PUMA is so strong for Independence Day. I have NEVER felt so patriotic.

  142. What a GREAT group of Americans I read here. By the time Nov. 4 gets here, I am sure that there will be as many independent thinkers and voters as there will be Dems and GOPs, and we will have THE most unified decision for president than ever in history.

    Ironically, it won’t be a landslide victory, but whoever is elected will know without a doubt that neither party can claim control of “we” the people. The DNC is thrilled to have more voters and more money than ever in history, compared to republicans right now, but if Obama squeaks by or (gasp) loses, it will be clear to both candidates that there is a formidable force sending the message that their party will no longer tolerate the crap or support the political constipation government hands out. You Hilocans who dare vote for McCain and swings the election may just have another shot in 1212.

    Have a happy 4th tomorrow and be proud to be an American.

  143. Curious if this thread is still active, since I don’t see it listed on the home page anymore.

  144. That was strange, but now it’s back.

  145. Hi Karolina NYC,

    I don’t know if you will see this, but I’m glad you saw my comment to you. Sometimes when you’re trying to respond to several people it takes awhile. I had seen your question and then when I saw you say goodnight, I thought you felt ignored. Lots of times I comment on something and no one responds. I did go to Corrente and read the thread, but not in real time. I got home a little late and missed the beginning.

  146. Thanks Bostonboomer. I read it.

  147. For those who wish to stay together in a long term commitment to the ideals and rinciples that Hillary Clinton has spent a lifetime promoting, http://Together4Us.com offers access for activists, funders, students, policy-makers and ordinary people to come together in support of each other and their goals for America. Please come to our website and join, use the code below to put our linked logo on your website and distribute our message and this code to all your network. Spread the word. We will be happy to put up a reciprocal link, your own co-branded web page on our site, or your own blog.

    Thanks so much,
    Gretchen Glasscock,

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