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Mid-Afternoon Breaktime Open Thread

It’s been mentioned in the threads that Corbett at WILK radio in Scranton will be covering PUMA today. Riverdaughter just sent this message:

He asked me to call in around 3:35pm

And from the Comments (Hugh Gagner)

If you want to call in, ESPECIALLY if you live in PA, call 570-883-0098


November To Remember

Here’s a link to more information (thanks grlpatriot!)

This? Is an Open Thread.

169 Responses

  1. Is that 3:35 EST ?

  2. Yes, EST. Corbett broadcast from Pennsylvania. Puma is getting a lot of attention lately. Hooray.

  3. I’m setting up my computer here at work now.

    PUMA !

  4. I am watching MSNBC today (I am reorganizing my closet, I had to watch something…), and I just saw an interview with Axelrod and I was struck by how much more respectful he was towards John McCain than he ever was towards Hillary Clinton. With Hillary, they were all about the character attacks and WWTSBQ, but now they are all sweetness and light about how wonderful John McCain is, just slightly misguided. Pisses me off. Especially because I believe they would NEVER have talked about Obama’s opponent so disrespectfully and viciously had she not been a she. Also, Axelrod was kinda kissing Bill’s butt talking about how much they need him. All I can say is good, keep kissing.

  5. RD, tell him Rendell has admited, the primary process is completely unfair and a total mess. But, we are not waiting till ……next time. That’s what the DNC wants.

  6. Awesome. I’ll try to listen live.

  7. Paging Wesley Clark! Paging Wesley Clark! Please line up to take your place under the bus!


  8. Seconding Hillary-zilla here. If the process is broken, then the way ro fix it is NOT to reward the people who profited from it. That’s like letting the fox guard the henhouse.

    Rewarding them for crooked behavior isn’t exactly going to motivate them to clean up.

  9. The RBC Committee made their decision in one afternoon (giving them teh benefit right now), surely they can convene a meeting to discuss / change their decision.

  10. Because of my son, I am a member of Votevets.org. I just got this email from them:

    Yesterday, on Face the Nation, General Wesley Clark spoke honestly and bluntly about what it takes to be Commander in Chief. In doing so, while he said Senator John McCain’s service made him a hero to millions, including Clark himself, that experience does not trump the poor judgment that Senator McCain has shown on some of the most important issues in recent years.

    What General Clark said was right, but the right-wing has been in an uproar. And even CNN accused Clark of “swift-boating” McCain. We need to fight back.


    Let’s show General Clark that we have his back, and will not stand for any attempts to shut down this important debate.

    We all honor Senator McCain’s service, as General Clark said. But that does not mean that on matters of security, the military, and veterans issues that Senator McCain is beyond reproach. Nor does it mean that his service trumps the poor judgment he has shown in some of the most important issues of our time, including on the war in Iraq, the efforts to get Osama bin Laden, and veterans legislation like the 21st Century GI Bill.


    It is important for General Clark to not back down, and to keep treating the American people like adults who can handle a real, honest, and blunt debate in these important times.

    It some circles, this is called ‘straight talk,’ and it’s exactly what we need right now.

    Thank you for your support,

    Jon Soltz
    Iraq War Veteran
    Chairman, VoteVets.org

    This is the link to the Petition thanking Clark for his honesty:


  11. If you want to call in, ESPECIALLY if you live in PA, call 570-883-0098


    November To Remember

  12. Kim, Obama has already thrown Clark under the bus. Pull out, brush him off. But, Obama doesnt want him. END of Story.

  13. I respect and admire Jon Soltz. So maybe he doesn’t know that Obama has all ready tossed General Clark under the bus.

    Getting mighty crowded under here but at least we’re in real good company.

  14. I do not know Corbett but I’m growing fond of him.

  15. If the Obama campaign is going to use Wesley Clark as a spokesperson, aren’t they responsible for his talking points?

  16. Kim, Obama has already thrown Clark under the bus. Pull him out. brush him off, But, Obama doesnt want his help. THE END.

  17. Kim…

    I like General Clark, but his comments were out of line. Particularly if the remarks were meant to benefit Barack Obama. I did not see the interview but have seen some of the quotes. I feel it is a mistake to try and demonize McCain. If the two senators were standing side by side, you tell me which one is more ‘deserving’ of becoming president? What has Obama ever sacrificed? Oh I forgot he had to leave his church….

    what a sacrifice!!!

  18. why did it take him weeks and months to reject Wright and Farrakhan, but Wesley Clark gets the bus treatment in less than 24 hours?

  19. A response at TalkLeft from a comment that Obama should have included some female patriots in his speech today,

    ” I’m assuming it’s a good strategy for Obama (none / 0) (#173)
    by MyLeftMind on Mon Jun 30, 2008 at 01:08:59 PM EST
    to undermine the GOP slander strategies. He’s made it past too white, too black, a Manchurian candidate and secret Muslim. It seems like the next step would be to block the religious right’s stealth slanders (his outreach to evangelical youth who are more likely to resist their older leaderships rants) and hard core false patriots who can be misled by the presence of absence of a flag pin. So he got a flag pin and it was a gift from a disabled veteran. He’s said (to us lefties) he doesn’t think wearing a pin is the be all end all proof of patriotism, yet he still needs votes from people, mostly men, who do look for that kind of false symbolism. Hence, outreach to those guys during the Fourth of July week. Seems smart to me.

    As far as women patriots go, do you really think he doesn’t know about them or that he overlooked them or forgot to mention them? He’s a well educated man with a strong wife. I think NOT mentioning women as he works on getting votes from sexist men is a much more effective strategy.

    If it were me, I’d let the Hillary supporters go until after the convention. The stronger, more “male” he looks now, the better he’ll compete against McCain in the fall. Hillary supporters, and especially women, will be looking for some outreach from here forward, but the guys who are independents and Reagan Dems need to be reassured now, as early as possible. Once they’re convinced he’s not the wimp the GOP paints him as, they’ll be in a mindset to resist talk radio and Faux News slanders.

    As usual, women have to wait. It sucks, but that’s politics.

    Warmed my heart

  20. You know, we should probably consider forming a benevolent association,the Sons or Daughters of the Asphalt (SODA). (My DAR/UDC mother would be so proud)>

  21. LMAO@sodaGood one, chatblu

  22. Thanks, Annabellep. We claim a growing membership.

  23. DRII:

    I say this as a PUMA – What was wrong with Clark’s statement?

    While McCain’s military service was heroic and commendable, it does not automatically qualify him (or anyone else) to be President.

    A couple months ago Obamanation had its collective panties in a twist because Hillary said McCain had the experience to be President. Today Obama said this:

    For those who have fought under the flag of this nation – for the young veterans I meet when I visit Walter Reed; for those like John McCain who have endured physical torment in service to our country – no further proof of such sacrifice is necessary.

    I’m starting to think Obama is a PUMA too.

  24. garychapelhill- Throwing people under the bus gets easier the more one does it. Obama is so proficient, it takes a fraction of the time it once did.

  25. Oh, I should add that Wes Clark is someone with the cred to diss McCain’s military credentials.

    That’s out the window now.

  26. Looks like these democrats got the super dooper evil cool-aid

    Durham, N.C. — A Durham couple charged with kidnapping, rape and assault was involved with a satanic cult, a prosecutor said Monday.Joy Johnson and Joseph Craig appeared at a bond hearing Monday.

    Prosecutors say Craig’s victims met him through a shared interest in Satan worship

    …Johnson, who was third vice-chair of the Durham County Democratic Party and vice-chair for the Young Democrats, is charged with two counts of aiding and abetting. She has resigned her positions with the Democratic party, State Senator Floyd McKissick said.

    maybe this whole thing is some crazy satanic cult…just sayin’ 🙂

  27. Did everyone see this? Google blogs being shut down article! http://bloggasm.com/whos-responsible-for-shutting-down-a-number-of-anti-obama-blogspot-accounts Not sure how to put a link in here.

  28. here’s the link if you’re interested…


  29. myiq: This becomes convoluted. If Obama is a PUMA, does he then protest his own nomination? Object to his own tactics? Repudiate the DNC who coronated him? Hurl himself under the bus? (Attn: SODA members, we would have to vote on that). If he were to do those things, I would have to reconsider.

  30. Until the media fell in love with Obama, McCain was their favorite.

    He was jilted so suddenly, his head must be spinning.

  31. While I agree with the sentiment, myiq, here’s what Clark said that is wrong:

    “In the matters of national security policy making, it’s a matter of understanding risk,” he said on CBS’ “Face the Nation.” “It’s a matter of gauging your opponents and it’s a matter of being held accountable. John McCain’s never done any of that in his official positions. I certainly honor his service as a prisoner of war. He was a hero to me and to hundreds of thousands and millions of others in the armed forces, as a prisoner of war.

    “He has been a voice on the Senate Armed Services Committee and he has traveled all over the world, but he hasn’t held executive responsibility,” Clark said.

    By harping on th fact that McCain doesn’t have any executive experience, he highlights that Obama has even less. On second thought, maybe Clark’s a PUMA too! Ha!

  32. oh, just to be clear….Obama carried Durham county about 75-25…..he’s got the satanic vote wrapped up!

  33. “maybe this whole thing is some crazy satanic cult”
    If only it were that easy. We could just throw some holy water on him and be done with the whole thing. No, this Obama menace is much harder to dispatch.

  34. chatblu:

    He seems determined to sabotage his own chances doesn’t he? Maybe he’s a stealth PUMA. He knows he’s unqualified, so he’s trying to screw up on purpose.

  35. I think we seriously need a bigger bus. How are we going to fit all those people under it? It’s getting mighty crowded.

    Poor Wes Clark he was trying so hard to be Obama’s VP and now he’s under the bus with the rest of us. Welcome, Wes!

  36. “I’m starting to think Obama is a PUMA too.”

    Yeah a


  37. Big O even threw poor Scarlett Jo under the bus.


  38. myiq2xu…

    I, in some ways, agree. The source matters greatly. I feel Gen Clark has earned the right to make the statement he did about McCain’s service. However, Barry has not earned the right to say any such thing. And I will not fall for the ploy of Obama surrogates saying things, getting the desired political impact, and then Obama trying to play nice guy after the fact. We saw this adinfinitum (sic) in the primary. Obama is such a politician, which would be fine if he had proven substance to back it up…

  39. myiq: Freud says that there are no accidents.

  40. myiq2xu , Have you lost it. Or is somebody using your name.

  41. ALL PUMA’s Please Call in to Corbett show and address H.O.U.N.D.
    If You in PA and want to call in to Steve Corbett show here’s the PA number 1 800 437 0098, If your outside PA and want to call in 570 883 0098
    3. P.M. Today http://wilknetwork.com/pages/322229.php

  42. I agree Florence, we need a bigger bus. It is getting crowded. Oh, and when thrown under the bus bring a fan it’s humid and hot under here.

  43. DRII:

    At the beginning of this campaign I thought Obama might be a qualified candidate, but one of my reservations was his willingness to affirm right-wing memes, like the Reagan myth.

    The comments by Clark were legit and fair. Normally, as a loyal Democrat, I would be happy about landing a good hard shot on the competition.

    The comments expose the primary bs about McCain – that being a war hero (which he is) qualifies him for the White House.

    I pride myself at being able to be objective in analyzing candidates and strategy. So objectively, I have to wonder WTF Obama thinks he’s doing.

    I am not pro-McCain, I am anti-Obama. If Hillary was the presumptive nominee and had denounced Clark I would wonder about her strategy too.

  44. Caeyinfl,

    I know what you mean. It’s awfully hot under this bus. The summer heat is terrible. Maybe the Obama camp could spring for the fans.

  45. All this excruatingly coordinated . Wes Clark TV appearances / BO speech , even that petition . And I’m tired of being a social experiment during this shock and awe campaign.

    This Wes Clark /OB thing is just like the Wright /OB kabuki . Exactly. They have one script and it’s a page long .

  46. I’ve got Corbett on now, but all I hear are ads.

  47. myiq2xu —– OK, you have to admit it’s at least a credential. What does Obama have. ??? This is why, CLARK should not have gotten into this.

  48. Millions, Steve, millions.

  49. Corbett is on now.

  50. Corbett just called himself a PUMA grandfather. LOL. “PUMA grandfather”. Gotta love it.

  51. Can someone blog Seve Corbett? I’m working on something but I would love to hear what’s going on.

  52. Is there any other stream for Corbett? IT is blocking the station’s site at work…

  53. DRII – I don’t think so.

  54. Will it be speech after speech after speech with this guy? I am sick of hearing him preach. I mean come on! He spent the whole primary running away from Hillary, refused to debate or talk about HOW he proposes “change” – Now he’s running from McCain and hiding behind a podium. What a wimp.
    WHAT exactly is this great pretender going to do? Read from a teleprompter and bore us to death on a monthly basis? Whenever there is an issue he gives us sermon. Please God, spare us all from this nightmare in November!

  55. florence, I’ll do my best. Corbett has invited Rendell and some other pol to call in. He’s thrown down the gauntlet.

    The first caller and Corbett agreed that Rendell’s HOUND makes the PUMA movement more legit.

  56. grlpatriot, thanks. I ‘m reading during breaks.

  57. Will Bowers is on Corbett right now

  58. Wes Clark deserved to go under that bus and I say that as someone who is married to one of his classmates.

    I also received the VoteVets email and asked to be unsubscribed. There are too many ways to go after McCain – denigrating his military record should not be one of them.

  59. Wow! I hope everyone is listening to Steve Corbett today. He’s on fire with PUMA love!

  60. Will Bower from Just Say No Deal has called in. Will is giving PUMA credit to SM, Riverdaughter, and The Confluence. A movement is born! (my note: Will is a good guy for giving proper credit). Will said that he thinks Rendell actually is in support of PUMA and is giving us a wink with HOUND. Corbett still calling out Rendell to call into the show. (my note: Will said the same thing last night on the No We Won’t blog talk show.)

    Corbett shouts, “PA PUMA Power”

  61. Also, I just had a horribly frustrating conversation with my partner who is an Obamabot (I know, it shocks me every time I write it, I don’t know how we do it, at least he isn’t a Hillary hater). He is out of town and I emailed him the Boston Globe article about Obama’s shady housing connections and his response was basically “Yeah, so, McCain’s worse.” That resulted in a fight, why can no Obama supporter ever answer for Obama??? And then he took it a step further to say that my non-vote protest vote is really a vote for McCain and a vote for McCain is a vote for x, y, and z horrible things, which just made me madder. He is doing what they all do – blaming us, who won’t line up behind the chosen one, for all the world’s problems.

    Disgusting. I adore him, in general, but this is one thing on which we CANNOT see eye to eye. We haven’t fought about it for awhile, mostly because we just stopped discussing politics totally, but it blew up today.

    I just feel so freakin’ angry. He just don’t get it.

  62. Clark should not even be trying to prop-up O because he doesn’t believe a word he is saying. They should just leave him be and he could better use his time supporting vets and their issues. Anything he can think to say about McCain just highlights that O hasn’t really done anything at all. I’m a Clarkie and it just pains me to see him trying so hard and then ending up under the bus.

  63. Will Bower was just on. Awaiting RD!!!!! Bower mentioned RD and gave credit to SM for PUMA name.
    PUMA power.

  64. *doesn’t get it, I meant.

  65. Joan, you think Clark really doesn’t believe it? He has been all over singing Obama’s effusive praises…it actually surprised me how much he is singing his praises…

    Also, I just saw an Obama commercial on the Lifetime channel and I am in a red, red state…talk about money to burn…

  66. I guess Wes Clark should have stuck it out with Hillary. It sounds like he’s not going to get the VP nod from Barack.

  67. JJ – that must be frustrating. It sounds like your partner is really attached to Obama. Talk from the heart and refuse to argue.

  68. “KarolinaNYC”
    I was @ work today so I missed you return post.
    I agree Hillary voted for “US” & I’m not holding that vote against her. “If” I remember correctly her main reason for the “vote” was to “get the inspectors back in”. That part “did work”, then Bush went ahead with the invasion anyway. The “only” person that was running that can “honestly” say they took a stand against the war, is Kucinich. “Obama was safely in Chicago”!

  69. This must be how teenagers felt when they were waiting for the Beatles to come onto the Ed Sullivan Show. I am so excited.

  70. RD is on now.

  71. RD on now. RD talking about the entire Just say no deal coalition. RD talking about our resoilve and how we will hold the democratic party accountable.

  72. Hillary-zilla:

    Pretend you were a kool-aid drinking Democrat. You want Obama to win, right?

    One of McCain’s strongest points is his war-hero status, especially compared to Obama. So how do you neutralize it?

    You have a bona-fide war hero like General Wesley Clark go on national television and say getting shot down in Vietnam doesn’t qualifiy you to be President. That statement is absolutely true, and does not denigrate McCains service in any way.

    You let Clark be the lightning rod for any controversy. He’s tough, he can handle it just fine. But you don’t denounce what he said.

    Obama let Clark go out on a limb and then sawed it off.

  73. Please share as much as possible. I can’t listen…

  74. Man RD is good!!! She writes well and thinks on feet, that is for sure!!!!

  75. Listening to Riverdaughter on WILK on the internet right now in my Southern California back yard. These intertubz is awesome.

  76. RD- this year is different. She is talking about the RBC theft of Hillary’s delegates in Michigan. RD is getting into the delegate details.

  77. I wonder hwo we can get an audio of the show. I adore RD.

    JJ, I know it tough. I live in a pro-Obama world, except my sister.

  78. RD is talking about how we are not Republicans. She says we are democrats that are fed up! Talking about fighting the party from within!!!!

  79. Really great job, RD. Loved the PUMA roar!

  80. myiq – McCain is also a bona fide war hero. Obama is not. Clark put his foot in his mouth and even though I’m not voting for him, Obama HAD to speak against it.

  81. RD is GREAT!!!!!!!!!!! Can I hear a PUMA growl?

  82. RD was great on Corbett. Said everything that needed to be said. Thanks, Corbett, for the extra exposure. You rock!

  83. myiq2xu, on June 30th, 2008 at 3:40 pm Said:

    ..Obama let Clark go out on a limb and then sawed it off.

    while giggling. Guys like Clark see the White House and freaking lose their minds. He was easily gathered in. Every Dem blow hard will be trashed . Didn’t what happened to Richardson, Edwards etc. show them that? But each think they are some how different.
    They aren’t . BO is like a flame to their moth .

  84. RD you were fantastic! PUMA could not have a better spokesperson. You should do more radio, you have a fantastic voice for it. Too many non-professionals stutter and stammer when the mic goes on. You sounded like a pro!

    I am so proud to be a part of this. PUMA Power!

  85. JJ, Vote for McCain. It’s a vote not for Obama, and a vote against him. Thats 2 votes. The more that double the amount of democrats voting will make, voting any other way . null.

  86. PUMA power!

  87. I think Clark got a raw deal here. He was responding to a silly question, and trying to put the empty shirt Obama on equal footing with McCain.

    As always Obama threw him under the threw him under the bus.


  88. Clark sez he doesn’t have executive experience. In that regard neither does Obama. He does have military experience for whatever that’s worth. I think McCain has the judgment for POTUS while I don’t think Obama does.

    Neither one is going to be sitting on a horse commanding, in person, vast armies or navies. That’s what the Generals and Admirals are for.

    A better question for Clark to answer would have been “Which one would he be more comfortable in the field with?”

  89. JJ-Clark was gung-ho for Hillary so how could he think O is so great? I think he’s going for an Oscar same as she has to. He sure had nothing good to say about him while she was still in.

  90. Katiebird–Brief summary: Corbett explained how Rendell concocted the memo and acronym over the weekend, even though PA has major budget concerns right now. Mentioned Confluence as the start of PUMA and RD as native of Pittsburgh. RD, on phone with Corbett, mentioned Just Say No Deal as information central for PUMAs. Explained that, regardless of how people intend to vote in Nov. (McCain, Hillary write-in, third party, no vote at top of ticket), that PUMA was about taking back the Dem. party after disgrace of delegates being taken from one candidate (Hillary) and given to a candidate who didn’t even want to be on the MI ballot (Obama). Said Dems needed to earn our votes. Explained that we weren’t Repubs–just people who felt that this year was different: Dems crossed the line, so party can’t count on our loyalty. Both RD and Corbett said Dems making no effort to get our votes at this point.

  91. At a news conference in Harrisburg, Pa., McCain was asked about Clark’s comments.

    “I think that that kind of thing is unnecessary,” McCain said. “I’m proud of my record of service, I have plenty of friends, leaders who will attest to that.

    “The important thing is if that’s the kind of campaign Senator Obama and his surrogates and supporters want to engage in, I understand that. But it doesn’t reduce the price of gas by one penny. It doesn’t achieve our energy independence or make it come any closer. Doesn’t make any American stay in their home who’s at risk of losing it today. And it certainly doesn’t do anything to address the challenges Americans have in keeping their jobs, homes and supporting their families.”

    Separately, in a statement, Obama spokesman Bill Burton said, “As he’s said many times before, Sen. Obama honors and respects Senator McCain’s service, and of course he rejects yesterday’s statement by Gen. Clark.”

  92. Whoever is on the radio now is fantastic! Julie, I think. She got cut off for stock report. Drat!

  93. myiq2x —- It still leaves McCain with the credetials Obama will never have.

  94. Hillary-zilla:

    I agree with you, I’m just trying to figure out WTF Opossum is thinking.

    I think it has to do with Clark being a former Hillary supporter.

    They are trying to purge the Clintons from the Democratic party

  95. McCain’s right – The comment was totally unnecessary. And McCain shows once again why even though I don’t want to vote for him – I just might.

  96. Thanks, Joan! I did get cut off, but I was happy to at least set that little obamabot straight!

  97. this was the big meeting between Obama and Bill????

    Former President Bill Clinton and Barack Obama talked by phone Monday morning, the Obama campaign and a Clinton spokesman said.

    Obama “had a terrific conversation with President Clinton and is honored to have his support in this campaign,” said campaign spokesman Bill Burton.

    Clinton “renewed his offer to do whatever he can to ensure Sen. Obama is our next president,” said Matt McKenna, communications director the Clinton Foundation.

    doesn’t sound like much to me…..definitely not a lot of butt kissing going on—-especially since it sounds like it was about a 2 min. phone call.

  98. Hillary-zilla, I can’t vote for McCain. I am a health care voter and I can’t support a candidate who didn’t support SCHIP. But I don’t believe Obama has any commitment to health care either, outside of any votes it may buy him to talk about it. So I will probably vote third party or write in Hillary.

  99. Dems shouldn’t go on tv to speak in behalf of Obama unless they’re given talking points and are assured of his support. This treatment of Clark is a red flag, IMO.

  100. I completely respect people who will vote for McCain, my parents are Hillary supporters who are now going to vote for McCain (they just don’t think Obama is qualified, and I agree, but that makes their choice very simple).

  101. Guys, I don’t know, I put up the thread and I am sorry I did. Was what Clark said about McCain right? Probably. But it was also putting his foot in his oun mouth?Because, Clarke ran in ’04 and I believe he was running on military experience. Does it qualify either one of them for POTUS? No, but if I had my choice in voting for Barack, Hillary, Clark or McCain-it owuld be in this order:

    1. Hillary
    2. Clark
    3. McCain
    4. Nader

    As far as I am concerned, I can’t think of anyone else that is qualified.

    I can’t delete votevets or anyone else, not with my son headed over there.

  102. HOUND?

    Ed, WTF were you thinking?

  103. JJ- I’m an RN of some 38 yrs, experience and am now disabled. Truly, truly I am a health care voter to the max. If you will go ta McCain’s website, you will find that his health care plan is better than the dressed-up SCHIP Obama is offering. Neither as good as Sen. Clinton, no doubt.

  104. Sorry for the typos I am at home and can’t find my glasses, again.

  105. Chatblu, thanks for the info, I will check it out. I know I still have a lot of time to decide. But as far as I know, McCain’s tax plans consist mostly of tax credits, which I don’t think are particularly effective, especially for low-income folks.

    But I will be sure to look into it more.

  106. MABlue – guess he was thinking politics is a b**ch anyway, right?

  107. Imyiq2xu I totally agree with you about the clintons being purged out of the party. It’s a total POWER grab.

  108. Caller on Corbett referring to some of the crazy stuff posted on Obama’s official page. He says that he posted negative stuff about Obama and it didn’t appear and his account was terminated, but they obviously allowed people posting ridiculous stuff about Hillary, etc (I am sure all of us have seen some of these comments), so they were allowing Hillary hate actively, they made a judgment to allow those comments to remain.

  109. ask about shutting down all the sites, I can get into Pumapac, it takes me to google and to anti puma site. I am at work so cant stay on.

  110. Kim,

    Are you just accepting that your son is going to Iraq? I hope you are going to think about alternatives–even refusing to go.

  111. Does anyone know how to send Riverdaughter an email? I can’t seem to find a contact link on this site. Thanks!

  112. In defense of Wes Clark–

    He was asked a question by Bob Schieffer, and he answered. He did not denigrate McCain. He pointed out, and I agree, that McCain’s time as a POW does not constitute executive experience, nor is it a qualification for President. Clark is right.

    My heart belongs to Hillary. But Wes Clark was not disrespectful of John McCain.

    Obama’s denunciation of Clark is cowardly.

  113. That Bill-Obama call sounds like.

    *ring ring*

    Bill (picks up): Hello.

    BO: Hey, Bill…

    Bill: ….You have reached fromer President Bill Clinton. Please leave a message at the sound of your ass losing in November. *click*


  115. recencyg-LMAO!

  116. The problem isn’t that Clark was wrong, but it was a soundbite and that’s never good.

  117. I do not have a problem with what General Clark said. Where he misses the mark is that what Sen. McCain experienced is a testament to his character and his strength in horrific conditions. Unfortunately for Camp O, it only accentuates Obama’s lack of credentials. The greatest speech evah on patriotism was another formulaic lecture on history and his biracial upbringing. Obama believes he needs to teach the USA what patriotism is, since it obviously was not invented prior to Obama. Yet another disappointment from the junior Senator from Illinois.

  118. Adam,

    Riverdaughter is at work right now. Is this something urgent? If not, I’d suggest that you wait until tonight and post a note to her on the most recent thread. She can get in touch with you. If you can tell me something about what you want I might be able to get a message to RD.

  119. I don’t have a problem with what Wes Clark said except the part about Obama having good judgement. I don’t think military experience is a requirement for the presidency at all, although it certainly could help. I think a candidate for the president should, however have experience in dealing with military issues and military leaders. Obama has no such experience.

  120. Corbett says he’s been covering politics for 35 years and has never seen a movement like PUMA, thinks it is going to be very effective.

    We know that PA. has some upset former Democrats. One caller said that many, many people in Carbonville see the sham that’s taken place

  121. Answer to the question: “Why don’t you do what Hillary told you to do, i.e., vote for Obama?”

    Well, Obama acolytes are the ones who follow the beaten path. To be a true blue Hillary supporter requires an independent mind. Otherwise, how would one have made one’s way through the corporate-consolidated mainstream media’s shrilling for the Obama? Hillary was told to quit from the beginning. The Democratic Party brought out all of its heavy hitters to “endorse” Obama. Most newspapers fell in line.

    Hillary was our inspiration. Most qualified candidate of my lifetime. Not a quitter. Had the nomination been fair and Obama qualified, I would hold my nose and vote for him. Since neither have been the case, I won’t vote for him.

    My thought process seems very American and iconoclastic to me.” Don’t follow leaders, watch the parkin’ meters.” Bob Dylan said that.

    May Axelrod’s “Hope+Change(TM) campaign be laid to rest after this second iteration.

  122. Forget the bus. Axelrod is scouting landfills to throw us in.

  123. caseyOR, on June 30th, 2008 at 4:21 pm Said:
    In defense of Wes Clark–
    He was asked a question by Bob Schieffer, and he answered. He did not denigrate McCain. He pointed out, and I agree, that McCain’s time as a POW does not constitute executive experience, nor is it a qualification for President. Clark is right.


    For Obama to throw him under the bus for that is a disgrace. It just shows what a phony he is.

  124. Thank you for responding, Bostonboomer. I’m originally from Boston myself (well, Cambridge), and I only just recently found this site which I absolutely love. I myself have also just started my own blog and I just posted an article that I thought you guys might be interested in posting here on “The Confluence.” I don’t know if that’s ever done or not, but I wanted to send the link and find out. And I didn’t want to just post the link in the comments section because I always find that so incredibly lame when people do that.

  125. Bostonboomer, sorry, that previous post was from me. I hadn’t noticed that I had logged in with my WordPress handle.

  126. grlpatriot in FL. next on Corbett

  127. Hey it’s SM!!

    Katiebird, Boston, Confluence Hall monitor, is it ok to post my VERY FIRST POST?

    I know riverdaughter does her evening thread, can I do it between now and 7-ish pm?

  128. Obama all about political expediency. Everything he does and every move he makes is self serving. It is getting too crowded under this bus.

  129. I was a Clarkie in 2004, and I have to say I’m glad Obama overreacted and rejected Clark’s correct and reasonable response to a question. Now, Clark doesn’t have to do another thing for The Pretender, and I wish Clark would tell him to kiss his ass.

  130. sm77: I’m none of these people but they normally don’t care when you post as long as it’s not right on the tail of any other post. Live and let post.

  131. Who will be left to be this man’s VP? No one.

    Seriously, let’s pick the one that hasn’t pissed off everybody everywhere and give her the nomination. It’s just logic at this juncture.

  132. SM,

    I think this would be a perfect time to do it. Post away!

  133. Ok Regency – Thank you – I didn’t want to go in between a thread or anyhting. Dammit, now I think its gone, I’ll have to go look for it.

    Ugh, rookie blues.

  134. Adam,

    You can post a link to your blog, or I can e-mail you at the address you used to post your comments here. Let me know if you want me to do that.

  135. SM,

    Your draft will be saved. If you can’t find it, I’ll be glad to help.

  136. Obama has out done himself. He has graduated to Landfill. Under the bus is hearby obsolete.

  137. Bostonboomer,

    Please email me at that address, thanks!

  138. Long sigh

    Vastleft catches this from Sthephen Ducat at the PuffPost:

    Stephen Ducat at HuffPo:
    Obama’s resort to the triangulation of the old politics is an admission of a much more serious limitation. It tells us that he does not believe in his own ability to reframe certain key issues in a way that makes a progressive stance the one that is obviously the most moral. It shows that he does not feel up to the task of rendering some liberal principles intellectually clear and emotionally compelling.
    His limited ability to exercise moral leadership leaves him with no choice other than to accept Republican frames on issues. So, on the FISA bill, for example, loss of privacy and immunity for criminal telecom companies become a trivial price to pay for protection from unfathomable and pervasive Evil.

    I don’t know whether to laugh or cry. I don’t even have the energy to enjoy any type of schadenfreude.

    I’m simple gonna outsource my reaction to semidi

    From the Department of “We TOLD YOU SO, ***holes,” Part II

    Barack Obama: Anti-public financing, anti-privacy, pro-death penalty, anti-gun control, and anti-Fairness Doctrine.

    What’s next, chipping away at what’s left of Roe v. Wade? And you idiotic Obamazoids think he’s a liberal?

    You people are fucking morons.

    The funniest part is that you Obamazoids screamed bloody murder about the Clintons’ DLC centrism and ended up with a candidate more conservative and triangulating than both of them put together.

    I couldn’t put it any better.

  139. All well and good comments, fellow PUMAs. However, I cannot restrain my joy, because now I have been invited to another swell party. Thank you, Chatblu, I love being a SODA member!

  140. “What did I miss? Why is Gov. Rendell an “honorary”
    member of PUMA??

  141. caller: seeing something very troubling within the Democratic Party…Corbett: If the internet is good enough for O. to raise money, get voters on the internet, it’s perfectly fine for PUMA to spread their outrage at what’s happened!

    Yay PUMA, Boowha Corbett!!!!

  142. I got through to the Corbett show to let Corbett know that JSND has over 2 M members and 134 sites in the coalition now. I’m not sure how cogent I was. I was nervous.

  143. Sonya,

    I was a Clarkie in 2004. I’m glad he’s under the bus so now Obama won’t pick him as a VP.

  144. SODA rules!

  145. And I didn’t want to just post the link in the comments section because I always find that so incredibly lame when people do that.

    No offense, but I find that’s a pretty lame judgment. This is an open thread, so people are free to post their blog material, particularly if it is relevant to the cause. Additionally, some of the best links can be found in comments, whether they are to a personal blog or to a news story. For that reason I really think we should be supporting that activity, especially where appropriate, instead of discouraging it.

    That said, welcome to the COnfluence and I look forward to reading your blog!

  146. can someone remind me what SODA is? these are so much fun…. I was thinking of TUBAS…thrown under the bus again!

  147. Almost forgot: I’m really proud of this post on Democrats & phoniness I wrote today. 😀

  148. Sons Or Daughters of the Asphalt, in honor of my DAR/UDC mother.

  149. You know, Gary, maybe SODA should be the entry level with a TUBA medallion awarded for each subsequent toss.

  150. Boston & Regency, I did it!

    Come and wish our little PUMA cub a Happy 1-month Birthday at my VERY 1st POST!

    Whenever you want to do so, of course…hee-hee!

  151. 🙂 exactly… I think rev. wright would be a high level tuba by this point….

  152. Actually, that was my first thought about Clark too – he just got himself off the VP ‘short list’. Small price, I’d guess!

  153. I’m a Clarkie, too, but “untested and untried”, seriously?

  154. Yes, the Rev has had a meteoric rise to Grand Exalted TUBA of the SODAs.

  155. Man, I wish was an artist. I’d draw a picture of a TUBA-shaped Wright, with his head pocking out of the horn like a dog in one of those medical cones. You know? His body would be the the twisted brass and maybe his fingers the buttons. But alas, I have zero artistic talent.

  156. poking, obviously…sheesh

  157. Regarding Wes Clark being thrown under the bus –

    Obama supporters, you might start to notice a pattern here. Do you expect him to take a stand for you if it’s the least bit politically difficult? He won’t.

  158. regencyg, on June 30th, 2008 at 4:52 pm Said:

    Who will be left to be this man’s VP? No one.

    I was thinking/hoping that Obama hasn’t announced who is VP is because all the best choices have turned him down!! LOL.

    What intelligent person would want to be Obama’s VP. None. Only an idiot would accept.

  159. I was just listening to Brit Hume on Fox News report that Obama says he believes in equal pay for women. However, Hume stated that it was learned through the Secretary of the Senate that Obama paid his women employees about an average of $6,000 less than his men employees. Of the 5 people in his office who earned more than $100,000, only 1 was a woman. In Senator McCain’s office, women’s salaries average about $2500 more than the men’s average salaries.

    Maybe it’s time for his women employees to ask for a raise!! Just a thought.

  160. Arlene, on June 30th, 2008 at 6:53 pm Said:
    I was just listening to Brit Hume on Fox News report that Obama says he believes in equal pay for women. However, Hume stated that it was learned through the Secretary of the Senate that Obama paid his women employees about an average of $6,000 less than his men employees. Of the 5 people in his office who earned more than $100,000, only 1 was a woman. In Senator McCain’s office, women’s salaries average about $2500 more than the men’s average salaries.

    This doesn’t surprise me one bit. Obama is foul.

  161. But so did you see this one by Jay (Got Bucks) Rockefeller?

    “McCain was a fighter pilot, who dropped laser-guided missiles from 35,000 feet. He was long gone when they hit,” Rockefeller told the newspaper, which published the article on the interview Tuesday.

    “What happened when they [the missiles] get to the ground? He doesn’t know. You have to care about the lives of people. McCain never gets into those issues,” he is quoted saying.

    First don’t know if we had laser-guided bombs in Viet Nam or not, but McCain was a war-fighter . His job as a naval aviator was first to follow orders and if it involved aerial bombing that was it.

    Rockefeller has since apologized for his remarks but as a story said on ABC News, Obie has that habit of letting his spokespeople say what he won’t and then “takes the high road”. Bullshit. It’s not having the bollocks to do your own dirty work.

  162. I wonder if the Obama Girls will go on strike and make the Baby Jesus stuff his own fucking envelopes?

  163. I am considering joining SODA since Clark is there…
    As a Clarkie (drafter) – I am happier to see him under the bus
    than demeaning himself for the empty suit.
    I remember in 2004, after endorsing Kerry – he said he would be
    a “point man” for him. it’s a military term for someone walking ahead and risking the shots from the other side in order to reveal them and protect the others.
    Which is exactly what this was.

  164. edge: SODA welcomes you and Gen’l Clark.

  165. Obama paid his women employees about an average of $6,000 less than his men employees….Of the 5 people in his office who earned more than $100,000, only 1 was a woman. In Senator McCain’s office, women’s salaries average about $2500 more than the men’s average salaries.

    I could hardly finish reading this aloud. I started laughing so hard, I nearly cried.

    For heaven’s sake — This is The Through The Looking Glass Election.

  166. I don’t know if this has been posted, or if all of you have read it, but I’ll risk redundancy because the piece is yet another reflection of the positive negative impact PUMA is having on the selectee and the Democratic Party. I think it’s an appropriate read in celebration of PUMAs one month birthday celebration.

    The poster didn’t credit the site she copied this from, but I have requested the info from her.

    Sunday, June 29, 2008
    Why Obama & Dean Fear 4 Million!
    A Message From An Independent Conservative.

    Meanwhile, if you care to, you can go to

    Scroll down to post #668

    GO PUMA!!!

  167. testing…testing…

  168. Thanks to owners of riverdaughter.wordpress.com – you created a nice forum!
    I was able made only one blog with the info about a medicine pills
    I hope this it is suitable section for my message if there is no that simply remove it and forgive for disturbance
    My small blog – celexa
    sorry for errors – here is a obscure and I have very small keyboard

  169. I am here at a forum newcomer. Until I read and deal with the forum.
    Let’s learn!

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