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Thursday: How to depress a rat

For awhile now. I’ve gone off on a tangent about psychological warfare. I’m no psychologist but I did spend many years with a fanatically religious mother and I’ve seen every kind of psychological warfare there is. After 40+ years, I have yet to convert and remain as much of a sinner as I ever was.

So, let’s take stock of where we’ve been and where we are now. First, the sweeties tried to debate us. Yes, they came with their personal power dynamics themed speeches about how we can all get along as long as we listened to them and stopped being such belligerent idiots. That didn’t work so well. Then they tried the guilt trips. If we didn’t vote for Obama, the forced pregnancy police were going to visit women at the workplace and subject everyone to pelvic exams. But we pointed out that the SCOTUS already has enough votes to overturn Roe without any help from us. Besides, with Obama now supporting Steny Hoyer’s FISA legislation, Roe is not the only thing we have to worry about with the Supreme Court and Obama is not the guy to save it.

The most recent tactic to be used against us is something we researchers use occasionally. It’s called Learned Helplessness. We sometimes induce this in lab rats in order to test anti-depressant drugs. In short, the rat is subjected to a stressful situation, like putting it in a tank of water and making it think it’s about to drown. This situation is one that it can’t resolve or relieve. Do this for n times and then measure how much the rat is depressed by putting it the corner of a square, for example, and measure how long it takes for the rat to wander out of it. The efficacy of the drug is related to how quickly the rat leaves the corner. Really depressed rats just sit there. And sit there. They have become passive against what they see as overwhelming helplessness, or so we think because, after all, no rat has ever told us how suicidal it is.

A more precise definition of the concept can be found in the wiki entry on learned helplessness::

Learned helplessness is a psychological condition in which a human being or an animal has learned to believe that it is helpless in a particular situation. It has come to believe that it has no control over its situation and that whatever it does is futile. As a result, the human being or the animal will stay passive in the face of an unpleasant, harmful or damaging situation, even when it does actually have the power to change its circumstances. Learned helplessness theory is the view that depression results from a perceived absence of control over the outcome of a situation, or situations (Seligman, 1975). Examples can be found in schools, mental institutions, orphanages, or long-term care facilities where the patients have failed or been stripped of agency for long enough to cause their feelings of inadequacy to persist.

Now, how is this being used against us? Well, many of you might have noticed that there has been an overwhelming preponderance of polling data put out this week that shows a tidal wave of support for Obama. In fact, we have even had some “woe is me, everything is lost” trolls here recently who have wailed and nashed their teeth in despair over the polls that show that “Obama is going to win, WIN I Tell you and there is nothing we can do, Nothing. We must all get used to the fact that Hillary lost, lost and forsaken us. Where is my razor? Good-bye cruel world!”

This is bull$%^&. Anyone who remembers 1988 will remember that Dukakis was ahead during the summer and how did that go? Øh, and then there was Kerry, remember him? He was going to whup George’s @$$ (God, how naive we were). My point is that if the Republicans took the attitude that they were done for, we’d have had Democratic presidents in one long unbreakable string, one after another.

So, what do the polls really show? Well, they probably reflect somewhat realistically that some Hillary supporters have moved to Obama. Obama shouldn’t kid himself into believing that they actually *like* him. I’m pretty confident that they do not. But I’m guessing that a lot of them have bought the previous troll bait on the SCOTUS and with Hillary suspending her campaign, they might feel that the lesser of two evils, yada-yada-yada… Of course, I’m not absolutely convinced that Obama *is* the lesser of two evils, but that’s neither here nor there.

The frequency and intensity of the polling data in the news is intended to make us “shrieking bands of paranoid holdouts” feel like we can’t do anything to fight the tsunami of Obama’s inevitability. It is designed to make you passive just when your activity has the most power to affect some kind of change- before the actual convention. Are you going to let them box you into a corner?

The GOOD thing is that this PUMA movement that started here at The Confluence, has gone viral. We now have many coalition members fanning out across the media, thanks to Diane at JustSayNoDeal, who are getting the message out that we are not giving in. And as long as we have our votes, we are not helpless. If they don’t pay attention to us before the convention, they are sure as Hell not going to forget us after the election. The more there are of us. the more power we have. The bigger our numbers, the harder Obama and the DNC have to work to win us back. Let THEM see how high the mountain is.

We are NOT helpless, the odds are NOT against us, we ARE growing. We are going to do whatever little acts of resistance it takes to make ourselves noticed and respected. If we stick together and keep our resolve, we will be a force to be reckoned and I’ll be damned if someone is going to box ME into a corner I can’t get out of.

Go get’em, PUMAs!

One more thing:  I can’t access the webpage from work anymor since a new firewall went up.  So those of you who thing the fire has gone out can stop worrying.  I’m just chomping at the bit at my desk.  But forturnately, we have plenty of very committed people at this blog who do some pretty passionate posts so I’m sure we will be in good hands.  Meanwhile, we have a whole lot of new freinds at JustSayNoDeal and at PUMA Pac.  Check them out.

260 Responses

  1. We are PUMAS, hear us roar, in numbers too great to ignore!

  2. I don’t care if I’m the lone hold-out deadender.

    I ain’t voting for Obama, even if they hold me down and inject kool-aid into my brain.

  3. myiq2xu,

    Deadenders can be pretty powerful. Bush has still been able to stymie the Democrats with his low approval rating.

  4. The Gallop yesterday shwoed him tied with McCain.

  5. I got this message last night from a guy who couldn’t believe I “don’t support organization or candidate who endorsed Barack Obama before May 31st”:

    You’re not supporting any organization that supports Barack Obama? Do you mean like, oh say, the Democratic Party? Catherine, it appears that you received this e-mail because you are on the mailing list of the Kansas Democratic Party Progressive Caucus. I’m assuming from your tone that you were a supporter of Hillary Clinton. I understand your frustration and disappointment after a long and hard fought primary battle. However, do you really believe that John McSame is the more progressive candidate of the two remaining? Do you honestly think he would be better for the country? It’s time for Democrats to come together behind the party’s presumptive nominee. That’s what the “Unite For Change” events are all about, to bring together the Clinton and Obama supporters and heal the wounds from the primary campaign, then all get to work on the common cause of defeating Republicans all over the country in November. I hope you will consider a change of heart as you work through the grief of your favorite candidate’s loss.

    Really — he sent that long unbroken stream of text. WITHOUT a single word about what happened on May 31st.

    I think it’s an amazingly impressive string of put downs and a fine example of why I don’t think Obama will win in November.

    We PUMAs were actually pretty slow to take control of our votes. We’ve been giving it away to Democrats for years. But, the rest of the country took their votes back a long time ago. That’s what the whole rise of the Independent movement is all about.

    I’m new to this whole “owning my vote” thing. But, I don’t think talking down to me is going to win me to their side.

  6. Oh, and the part where he misspells my name? I hate that.

  7. When you stop and take stock of how a little wordplay on June 1st mushroomed into a movement then the world takes on a different meaning altogether.

    As I have said many times, there is strength in numbers. When you see a presumed nominee practically begging the Clinton’s, who were improperly trashed by this nobody, for support you can assume that nominee knows he is facing an uphill battle.

    No matter the outcome, PUMA voices nationwide are and will be heard long after November 4th. We can stand shoulder to shoulder with our motto of “never again”.

    PUMA will have a place at the table.

  8. Mawm and I are leaving for Unity this afternoon. We figured they may try to force all of us (hillary included) into exile in Canada — why else would they want to hold a unity event out in the middle of nowhere. If you don’t hear from us, send back up. 🙂

  9. Where do we forward the bail money?

  10. amnesty international he he….

  11. GCH:

    As my uncle used to say, “if you can’t be good, don’t get caught!”

  12. If I could add…”and if you’re gonna get caught, make it worth it.”

  13. gary: Be careful. Don’t know how long it will take to reach NE but they are predicting again some heavy rain and thunderstorms later today and again tomorrow. Are you guys equipped with cameras and such? Probably a stupid question on my part, just wanting validation.

  14. myiq2x: Is that the same uncle who has been in the attic since WW2?

  15. Riverdaughter, we understand the IT Nortonians must be obeyed, but we do miss you – I check in 4-5 times a day for my RiverDaughter fix!

    L.H.M.A. – Learned Helplessness My Ass! Nobody put’s Baby in a corner – and I ain’t gettin’ no stinkin’ learned helplessness!

    Our votes were stolen at the RBC, the election caucus system was rigged, and the LIES & HATE & PANDERING is unbearable. And I’m supposed to stay in a corner, scared because “a Republican monster will get me?”

    I had an ex-husband that played that passive-aggressive “I know you’re mad but you know we have a kid and we can’t get a divorce” crap after he cheated on me with his best friend’s cousin and God knows who else.

    We can’t get a divorce?

    Oh yeah?


    We must destroy the “McGovern loser cult” that reigns the DNC. We have had enough of “Democrat in name only” capitulators that say one thing and fall slobbering to the Republicans again.

    There will be “unity” – PUMA unity!

  16. If I were Obama, I wouldn’t be to excited by those polls showing him ahead. On June 20, 2004 the Gallup Tracking Poll had Kerry leading Bush 48 percent to 44 percent.. And, on June 24, 1992 Gallup had a poll that
    showed Ross Perot at 34%, George Bush at 32%, Bill Clinton at 24%.

    In recent elections, being ahead in June is a sure sign your going to lose.

  17. Pat, we are taking still camera, video camera, and air card so we have constant connectivity. We are a two man mobile media sensation!

  18. And garychapelhill always remember in the words of George Carlin:

    “When you’re born you get a ticket to the freak show. When you’re born in America, you get a front row seat. ”

    Enjoy yours in Unity.

  19. GCH:

    If you’re gonna get caught, try to make it on television.

  20. kenosha–I want backstage passes….

  21. On the subject of psychology, psychopathy, etc…..I am convinced that Barack Obama is a malignant narcissist. I keep repeating this because the more you know, the more you can see the signs in him. One of the hallmarks of malignant narcissism is character assassination. The malignant narcissist has a profound envy of anyone he perceives to be held in high esteem. So, he must assassinate their reputation with constant disparaging comments, and even brazen displays of degradation. To wit–Barack Obama felt compelled to state that Ronald Reagan was a transformative presidency in a way that Bill Clinton’s was not. The Clinton’s legacy of support in the black community was destroyed by Obama’s accusations of racism. The brazen act of publicly putting Patti Solis Doyle in the position of Chief of Staff to the Vice President–when Obama knew Solis-Doyle and Clinton were estranged–was the act of a malignant narcissist. The man is a malignant narcissist. There is simply no doubt about it. Just Sayin.

    Narcissistic Personality Disorder, malignant features.


    It’s All About Obama
    June 26, 2008

  22. I can see it now, Gary and Mawn driving down the Interstate in a white Ford Bronco, pursued by state troopers.

    CNN helicopters filming the whole thing, as the passenger alternately waves Hillary signs and moons the cameras.

  23. The campaign theme of Obama has been inevitability.

    I am getting tired of the McSame comments. I want to know what Obama wants to propose and how is he going to stick to it, since he doesn’t seem to be able to stick to any position long enough to debate it.

    I don’t want to hear about McCain from Obama. I want to hear about Obama . Unfortunately there is always stuttering, and confusion when it comes to himself, his plans, and his policies.

  24. I KNOW I need more coffee. It took me ’till now to realize that GCH = garychapelhill.

    (slinking off)

  25. myiq2u,

    Now THAT might get me to turn my TV back on.

  26. Gary & Mawm, good luck!!!! Please let us know how things go at Unity (my ass!), NH.

    I know that PUMAPac plans to be there as well as other Just Say No Deal groups – I’ll be there in spirit!!!

  27. Kathleen Sebelius said:

    That has been the Republican playbook for the last eight years,” said Sebelius, an Obama ally. ” ‘He’s not qualified, he’s somebody who should scare you. He’s too liberaI.’ ”

    The Kansas Democrat, often mentioned as a possible running mate for Obama, said those were all “code words” to try to make voters “uncomfortable.”

    So they are officially saying now that if you call Obama unqualified that is code for “black” and makes you a racist?

  28. BMC, wow, I never thought I’d agree with Karl Rove.

    His op-ed is spot on point. Thank you for sharing!

  29. garychapelhill – have fun! If backed into a corner, act like a puma.

  30. Ditto-“bmc”
    “Good Luck G.C.H. & mawm”!
    “We’re all behind you”!!
    Let them know we had questions & concerns “BEFORE” the end of the primaries. Just because Obama was “selected not elected” does’nt
    ERASE them. Remember “we” were the ones that can’t be “SPEECH” into believing he has enough background to be president. “Thanks but NO Thanks
    on the Kool-aide”!!
    By the way how would I contact Pres. Clinton’s spokesperson, Matt McKenna?? Pres. Clinton deserves an apology from Obama!!

  31. Regarding polling data, I offer the following:

    What was the sample size, and what was the measure? Likely voters would be more accurate than registered voters, and a sample size of 2,500 would be better than 900.

    Was the sample “gamed?” I believe that the current party affiliation in the US is 37% (D), 32% (R), and 20% (I), with the balance going to other parties. If the sample is weighted 45% D, 20% R, and 35% I, that won’t give a true representation.

    Was the sample weighted towards younger people, who don’ vote as often as us older folks? (I’m 49 and change). The 45-59 age group is actually the key demographic, and has been a more acurrate predictor of the recent election results (1992-2004). Us old farts don’t like too much in the way of change, we want some stability. This could also skew the results.

    How was the question worded? Was it designed to push people towards a specific response?

    Does the sample take into account the previous statistic that 28% of Clinton supporters have said they won’t support Obama, and 20% of Obama’s supporters won’t support Clinton?

    Just some questions that need to be answered before the accuracy of a poll can be judged. Gallup and Rasmussen tend to be the most accurate over time.

  32. My first visit to the Confluence was May 8. Katiebird welcomed me and I haven’t left. I have been here at least once a day since. I had to fight many trolls to get here, but I thank you for the shelter.

  33. What time is the event tomorrow in Unity? I can’t seem to find anything online. Want to plan around it.

  34. Hell no, they’re not going to back me into a corner. I’m a fighter. Just like “my girl”. Hell no, they better back the the hell up and let me out.

  35. SM: Your ex sounds a lot like my ex. Idiots.

  36. what I’ve noticed about those polls is that there always seems to be about 10-15% not accounted for. Could that possibly be the PUMA vote?

  37. Those F**kers better not boo Hillary tomorrow.

  38. Gary and MAWM- extra good thoughts and prayers going your way! Wish I could be there!

    Learned Helplessness? Must be something else I am immune to- like the Cult-Aide. And apparently it’s some genetic thing, because my whole family is 100% against Obama.

    I don’t trust polls and haven’t since I took statistics in college. As the Prof quoted- “There are liars, damn liars and statisticians.” Those shysters can take any numbers they want and make them say anything they want. What really counts, IMHO, is the millions and millions of folks who DO NOT get polled. We (my family and friends) are pretty average Americans- we range from first time voters to my 82 year old mother, income from high high to low. Various religious affiliations (and some with none) and sexual orientations. Some with college degrees, (only two with Master’s) some college students.
    We are a Democratic family, to the last. BUT- there is NOT ONE among us who is voting Obama.
    I believe we are typical Americans. The over riding factor in the family is the belief that we ARE NOT helpless. That this is STILL America and that our votes count. We have the power if we choose to use it.

  39. Kim, was that you posting yesterday on the blog named edge?

  40. @ GCH, Thanks for the link. Like we didn’t think Obama’s campaign wasn’t going to continue with their ace in the hole – the race card? It’s worked beautifully since NC why stop now?

    @SM – as many of us have stated, the GOP strategists may represent the lesser party but they’re still the smartest strategists going. Karl Rove is good, very good.

  41. In 2000 Nader got 2.75% of the vote. That’s probably about all we need to keep Obama from winning

  42. GCH – Maybe Obama’s seal could be flashed in Unity?

  43. Pat and SM: Probably why older women won’t support Obama. We have heard every lie in the book and every line a slick talking, fast walking snake oil salesman can give.

    I had a guy ask me once, what is it that you want?

    Was easy to answer, sincerity. Say what you mean and mean what you say.

  44. I posted on a couple of blogs yesterday and was the first one there. My other moniker is Kirafa. Then I posted to my own.

  45. katiebird,
    That is a stupid response you got. However, it’s pretty typical of Obama supporters. They never really have anything good to say about Obama just screeching about “McSame”. The McSame thing is so lame. Their marketing strategy on this account is pretty poor.

  46. Kim: True, but I was always a pushover for charm.

  47. The funny thing about the McSame thing is that it is becoming more and more clear that Obama has much more in common with Bush than McCain does

  48. gary,
    I see Obama now has his surrogates playing the preemptive race card along with himself. This is tiresome. The fact that Obama isn’t qualified has nothing to do with his race and everything to do with the truth. What exactly has the guy accomplished by himself? There’s really nothing that I can think of.

    He’s another George W. Bush. Someone who expects others to do the work while he wants to take all the credit.

  49. I have wondered lately if polling is a little like being an expert witness.

    I’ve been in the law for 25 years and you can get anybody you want to say anything you want if the price is right. It always amazes me that you can have one set of circumstances and two experts who can come to competely opposite conclusions from the evidence.

    Experts are paid very well. They will come to the conclusion you need.

  50. Pat & other New England PUMAs:

    Got this info from PumaAction (would provide link but I get spammed all the time, please visit their site – I linked in through Just Say No Deal’s site):

    We Say “NO DEAL!” – Protest the Unity Sham!
    This Friday, June 27th, Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton will make their first joint campaign appearance to demonstrate to the nation that the Democratic party is united. The event will take place in none other than Unity, New Hampshire.

    We all know that this show of unity is a sham, but Obama wants to flood this small town of 1500 with 2500 of his supporters to create a staged impression of overwhelming Democratic party togetherness. His campaign wants to sell the American people a big lie by staging a fiction worthy of Hollywood.

    It can’t happen, if we “Just Say No Deal”!
    Please come to New Hampshire to let the American people know the reality, that millions of Clinton supporters will not vote for Obama in November should he be the nominee, and no amount of staged “Unity” rallies will change that fact.

    ****** Update ********** 6/26/2008 8:00 AM EST

    We have decided on a place to meet before the Unity Rally. It is a

    Rest Area on Interstate 91 in Vermont between exits 6 and 7 on the east side, rougly between the towns of Rockingham and Springfield.
    We will arrive at 8:00AM EST, and stay until 10:00AM EST

    when we will head over to Claremont to catch a shuttle bus to the “Unity” event, or take some other mode of transport to the location.

    A lot of people have different motivations for protesting this event, and many people have different ideas about what they want to do. We propose meeting at the above location and time, so that we can discuss these things as a group and come up with a unified plan of action, or at the minimum an understanding of where other people are coming from. This is not a well defined top-down operation. PUMA has been a very organically emergent phenonmenon based, for a lot of us, on the Anti-Democratic actions of the DNC. We want to keep the Democracy in the Democratic party, so it is in that spirit that we want to have a PUMA rally for Democracy before the artificially staged so-called “Unity” event.

    Bring your signs.
    We will have some food there, but you are welcome to bring more.
    Important: There is some confusion about whether or not a ticket is required to access the Unity event. It is certain a ticket is required to take the shuttle to the event. We urge you to sign up for a ticket even if you don’t plan to take the shuttle just in case it is required at the event. Below the maps on this page are intructions on obtaining a ticket. Unfortunately, it requires giving your information to the Obama campaign. If you don’t want to do that, we certainly understand, but it may be that you will be denied entry.
    If you have any questions,
    Please email us at PUMA Action
    Most importantly, bring yourselves

    We look forward to seeing you there!

    Go PUMA!

    Here are the direction to the site. Coming From the North:

    Travel South on Interstate 91 in Vermont.
    After Passing Exit 7 to Springfield, you will see a Rest Area.
    I am not sure if you will be able to exit to the east side. Somehow you must get on the other side of the road. If there is not an overpass, you may have to take the next exit, exit 6, turn around, and come back North to exit the Rest Area on the east side.
    Look for the large sign depicting a PUMA head.
    Coming From the South:

    Travel North on Interstate 91 in Vermont.
    After Passing Exit 6 to Rockingham, you will see a Rest Area.
    Take the exit for the Rest Area. You should be on the east side on interstate 91.
    Look for the large sign depicting a PUMA head.

    They also have more maps & directions to shuttle buses that will take protesters to Unity, NH.

  51. I like this quote from Turdblossom:

    Mr. Obama has now also played the race card, twice suggesting in recent weeks that Republicans will draw attention to the fact that he’s black.

    Who is unaware of that?

    It reminds me of the argument some Obot troll was making at TL the other day on the PUMA thread.

    He/she/it claimed that the Clinton’s tried to paint Opossum as the “black” candidate.

    Uh, you do realize he’s black, don’t you?

  52. Pat: First husband was so charming he had a complete family in two different towns.

    Not much into charm anymore.

  53. Elixir: Rove is a genius, an evil one, but a genius.

    Kim: There is a phrase that says “Never believe in what a man says, only believe in what he does.”

    Same goes with politicians. I always remember Katiebird’s now famous, “please tell me if Obama ever had a full time job” question – what has he done except bamboozle and hoodwink those who think they need a hero?

  54. Pat & Kim:

    I remember Bret Butler’s line about Bill Clinton. She said he’s like a guy you meet in a bar. You know he’s full of shit but you go home with him anyway because he’s charming.

  55. SM–that PumaAction site is Mawm…thanks for putting it out there…

  56. Brett Butler was funny.

  57. Elixir,

    GCH – Maybe Obama’s seal could be flashed in Unity?

    What would be great is that photoshopped one of the opossum face looking over the Obama seal. If only someone could get that inside.

  58. SM: As Maya Angelou famously put forth, “When someone shows you who they are, believe them.”

  59. No matter what, I will vote against Obama in November. Even if he “wins” in a landslide, then, at least, I can claim I never helped the decapitation of the Democratic Party. At the end of the day, we owe ourselves that: voting our conscience.

    I hope most people at least abstain from voting Obama.

    @Gary: Sebelius doesn’t understand that Obama isn’t qualified. That’s not a lie, but the damn truth.

  60. myiq: I just posted on my blog as a similar question?

    My post is probably completly politically incorrect, but I am so damn tired of the constant scrutiny and innuendo.

  61. Only one cup of coffee, can’t write should have said, “I posted a similar question.”

  62. Gary – that’s Mawm’s & your site – COOL!!!

    I didn’t know – it’s now going on my Favorites list – thank you!

    Kim: Exactly.

  63. Last time I checked we are still showing in polls as 4,5 Million
    One just has to look for those references more carefully as they
    are not readily available.
    And with the recent disenchantment of the “netroots” (those being the non-bitter people) it seems the energy is moving on our side

  64. Hey, here’s another website that’s making the rounds: I Pledge for Hillary. It’s a site devoted to getting each online Hillary supporter to pledge at least $2.00 to Hillary’s cause. If anyone here has a blog, please add this one to your links if you’re so inclined.

    It’s a pretty good site.

  65. Spoke with two Hispanic professional women in the border state where I live.

    Both said that niether they or their extended families will vote for Obama. Why?

    The same reasons most of don’t support him, lack of experience, corrupt political background, association with Muslim extremists, the fact that the DNC manipulated the primaries to ensure that Obama would be the nominee, the disfranchment of voters in Florida and Michigan, the terrible treatment of Hillary during the campaign.

    Obama and his campaign accusing Bill and Hillary of being racists INFURIATES them to the core!!.

    They will not vote at all if Obama is the nominee. If Hispanic voters decide not to vote, how does that affect the “downticket” for dems.??

  66. The site for our pre-Unity PUMA rally is

    It is kindof symbolic that we are going to be just across the border in Vermont.

  67. regency: You are an old soul. Yours speaks to mine.

  68. RegencyG: Maya rocks!

  69. edge–one of your quotes about the 4.5 million said:

    Elections hinged on far less than that

    so true…Nader got less than 3 million votes, and that spoiled the election for Gore….

  70. Accusations of racism won’t faze real racists.

    I’ve said for months that crying “wolf” on racism will backfire on Opossum.

  71. regency–we saw maya angelou with hillary in winston-salem. she was magnificent. Her smile is a power unto itself

  72. WTF?

    I’m being moderated again.

    I hate that. I prefer being radical.

  73. Gore spoiled the election for Gore. Look, I’m not massive Nader apologist, but if Gore had won the other states he was supposed to have won, it would not have come down to Florida. He should’ve won TN and AR (which I don’t think he took). It was a walk away year for Democrats, but he didn’t walk away with it. Yes, there was definite chicanery, but it should NOT have come down to one state.

    I blame Donna Brazile–and Al Gore for listening to her. Was he not paying attention when she ran Dukakis campaign?

  74. regency, I agree, but if those 3 million had voted for Gore he would have won. I’m just saying it is a good benchmark for us to use when determining what kind of numbers we need to turn the election

  75. especially if we work hard to build numbers in states like florida, ohio, michigan, colorado—I really hope he does lose colorado especially

  76. Donna Brazile ran Dukasis’ campaign???

    Dear GAWD, is the DNC THAT STUPID to keep employing losers? (Uh, yeah.)

    It’s as if they reward incompetence and underachievement – and GAWD FORBID if you actually win an election (see Bill Clinton’s treatment.)

  77. sm–even better, she ran Gore’s campaign.

  78. Once McRain rolls into Colorado and heavily campaigns there – Obama’s “lead” will melt under the desert sun.

  79. 3 million voters is roughly 1/6th (about 17%) of hillary’s voters. If the polls show 1 in 4 of her voters won’t vote for Obama, I’d say he’s in some deep s#$#

  80. Gary, I know she ran Gore’s, but sheezus louise-uss. 2 friggin failed campaigns that Democrats had every chance of winning!!!

    This is why I am more motivated to get every Obama enabler out. No more losers!

  81. Gary do you know what percentage of her voters are older women, because we are usually extremely stubborn and once we become dug in that’s it, get over it.

  82. Gary, those are the numbers we need to think about. Nader was able to shave off votes from Gore – and that was a handful of Nader supports (3%) approximately.

    PUMAs are MUCH higher in terms of numbers, there is a more normal that higher amount of “Undecided” voters (about 10-15%) and then of course, the PUMAs who said they’ll vote for McCain.

    The only way Obama will win is if he cheats and I most definitely believe he will – especially after seeing how his supporters are just batsh&t insane and highly disdainful of Democracy.

  83. I like the way you put that “…I’m not absolutely convinced that Obama *is* the lesser of two evils….”. This has been chewing on my mind also, and the more I see, the more doubts I have. Here’s the latest one (sorry, don’t know how to do links):


  84. Kim, that’s why I think Obama is toast. Nader’s support was mostly from flaky young voters who are now supporting Obama. Older women are a much more solid and dependable voting block. I continue to think if Obama is the nominee this election will be a blowout. I wholeheartedly agree with RD’s argument that Obama’s “inevitability” is all psy-ops by the media and his campaign.

  85. It won’t take millions of votes to change the outcome in November.

    The elections in 2000 and 2004 were determined by a handful of votes in one state each.

    Those states were Florida and Ohio, both of which Obama lost badly in during the primary.

  86. Gary the mind blowing question for me is, BUT WHY?

    Why is he the media darling? Why are they just fawning and falling all over themselves? The ratings show that this is not in their favor. If you look at the numbers, CNN and MSNBC, are losing viewers. Fox is actually gaining on them.

    We know that this should be all about the money in this game. So why are they sacrificing numbers for a losing candidate?

    It is like a twilight zone episode.

  87. I’m watching the SCOTUS live-blog, waiting for the Heller decision (the DC gun ban)

    Opossum alienated some of his fans yesterday when he said he approved of executing child rapists.

    I guess they thought he really was a progressive.

  88. kim, I think they see it as GWB all over again. he was woefully inadequate, but they proved they could push whatever candidate on us. I think a lot of people are wise to that this time and it won’t work. I think it will be fairly close in the popular vote, but that he just doesn’t have the depth of support to carry key states and therefore i think he will do quite badly in the EC.

  89. Obama is the media darling because he was running against Hillary.

    They would say nice things about Osama bin Laden if he was running against Hillary.

    Or maybe I should say “was” the media darling.

  90. Kim, they’re in love.

    See Bob Somerby’s Howler for comment on the MSM’s love for Obama and candidates like him.

  91. myiq2xu, Yet we’ve been screaming “Obama does NOT support Democratic Party tenets! His policies are more to the right that Edwards or Clinton” and they refused to listen, calling us “racists.”

  92. I admit there are days when I am depressed. To see so much dishonesty, lack of integrity, cheating, voter disenfranchisement and voter theft and realize it’s coming from the party you’ve supported through thick and thin for 40 years is depressing.

    That’s why the PUMA movement is so important. When we get down all we need to do is come here and know that if we don’t knock it off Pat or BB or SM or Kim will kick our whiny butts. I like that in friends. Friends don’t let friends vote for Obama and friends will kick your butt when it needs kicking.

    GO PUMAs!

  93. It is like everyone is willing to shoot themselves in the foot, to appear cool and hip

  94. myiqu2xu—I was talking about that yesterday. For all of the support he gets from the AA community, shouldn’t he at least be 100% anti death penalty? His own state had to put a moratorium on executions for god’s sake. And I know that this is a huge issue for the black community since it is quite obvious black men are disproportionately sentenced to death. That’s what happens when you throw in all your chips…nothing left to bargain with.

  95. Heller is going to be held unconstitutional. BZero, the constitutional lecturer (yeah, right), has stated that his previous statement on the subject was “inartful” — which means he blew it like a wad of Bazooka Joe.

  96. check these two assays by McCain and Obama on the true meaning of patriotism

    I’ve to say the McCain one is closer to my own view. Obama’s is about words and more shallow imo

  97. 5-4 overturned.

  98. That letter was just the typical put-down that all Obamabots use. I got an e-mail from an Obamabot that called me “bitter”, five times within three paragraphs! Ever since Obama used the “bitter” word when he talked of bitter voters and their guns and religion, it’s the new put down from all Obamabots.

    They just can’t see that voting for someone just because they have a “D” next to their name, doesn’t make us any better than the right wingers who continued to vote for anyone with an “R” next to their name. Remember, the Bushites used “Un-American” as their put down…you’re either with us or against us. How are the Obamabots any better? I think they’re worse and their use of physical threats reminds me of the brown shirts in Nazi Germany.

  99. To those who are sure Obama will deliver us a Liberal bench, don’t jump in the swimming pool yet. The blue you are seeing maybe painted concrete, not water:
    Obama Disagrees With Supreme Court Ruling Requiring a Death to Invoke the Death Penalty

    Where is Sen. Barack Obama on the death penalty? With Justices Alito, Scalia and Thomas. Here is what Sen. Obama had to say about today’s excellent Supreme Court ruling striking down a state statute allowing the death penalty to be imposed for crimes where no death occurs:

    When asked about Supreme Court ruling against the use of the death penalty in instances of child rape today at a news conference in Chicago, Obama answered, “I disagree with the decision. I have said repeatedly that I think that the death penalty should be applied in very narrow circumstances for most egregious of crimes. I think that the rape of a small child, six or eight years old is a heinous crime, and if a state makes a decision that under narrow, limited, well-defined circumstances, the death penalty is at least potentially applicable. That does not violate our constitution.”

    He continued, “Had the Supreme Court said, ‘We want to constrain ability of states to do this to make sure that it’s done in a careful and appropriate way,’ that would’ve been one thing, but it basically had a blanket prohibition and I disagree with that decision.”

    He sounds just like John McCain:

    McCain’s Senate office sent out a similarly worded statement: “As a father, I believe there is no more sacred responsibility in American society than that of protecting the innocence of our children. I have spent over 25 years in Congress fighting for stronger criminal sentences for those who exploit and harm our children. Today’s Supreme Court ruling is an assault on law enforcement’s efforts to punish these heinous felons for the most despicable crime. That there is a judge anywhere in America who does not believe that the rape of a child represents the most heinous of crimes, which is deserving of the most serious of punishments, is profoundly disturbing.”

    Disappointing? Yes. Predictable? Also yes.
    Uh oooh! Maybe Obama is as likely to appoint judges who WILL overturn Roe v Wade as McCain is. At least we know that McCain is a deal maker, a compromise seeker (McCain/Feingold). But who is Barack Obama?

  100. They aren’t telling you this:

    Since the end of the Democratic primary the $64,000 question has been, “how many Hillary Clinton supporters were so disappointed and disillusioned by the outcome that they won’t support Obama and will cross over and vote for John McCain this fall?”

    “…the most recent Fox News and Newsweek polls drilled down to focus on how Hillary Clinton primary voters are indicating they will vote in November.
    “As you can see, relative to the pool of all Democrats respondents, support for Obama among this subset falls by 13 and 11 percent, respectively, while support for McCain rises 7 percent in both…”

    “…data from Quinnipiac’s recent swing state survey that gives us some indication of how Clinton primary voters in Florida, Ohio, and Pennsylvania are feeling. As you can see, Florida closely mirrors the national numbers but the trend is more pronounced in Pennsylvania and especially Ohio, where the net change (drop in support for Obama/increase in support for McCain) reaches 22 and 29 points respectively…”

    “…it should give the Obama campaign a bit of a pause to see that, at least for the moment, one in four Democrats who voted for Hillary Clinton in the primaries in both Ohio and Pennsylvania indicate they will crossover to vote for McCain in the fall.”

    Read the full article, and see the graphs:


  101. Heller decision, 5-4 authoried by Scalia:

    “The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm. “

  102. I joined pumapac yesterday. I am committed to doing whatever I’m able to do (legally) to stop what I think will be a disastrous Obama presidency.

    No depression here.

    BTW, I think I saw the link here yesterday for fair-reflection.blogspot.com – a site that graphically spelled out the unfairness of the Democratic primary process. E.g., HRC won 11/12 electorally rich states (MA, CA, NY, NJ, TX, etc. that gave her 555 delegates. BO’s loss of those 11/12 states (IL was the only win for him in this category) gave him 550 delegates!

    Anyway, I can’t access the site this a.m. Anyone know any other place that offers this same info?

  103. MABlue: Obama is trying to avoid a Dukakis moment like when they asked him about his own wife being raped (how disgusting a question was that btw). He is thinking that if he were to agree with it the next question would be, “yeah, but what about your daughters” Instead of having the integrity to face down such a horrible question, he caves –showing that he will do anything to win and that he doesn’t represent the view of his largest core constituency, African Americans.

  104. So much for the DC insiders’ insistence that Roberts is a consensus builder.

  105. KenoshaMarge, that’s why this blog exists and that’s why we are here, to support one another in our “am I going crazy, or did I just feel that I don’t like what Democrats are doing.”

    At first, I seriously thought something was wrong with me. “Am I daring to think against the DNC? OMG, living in FL for almost a decade is turning me into a Republican!”

    But there it was, in full color and on live TV. The sexism, the Reagan-love, the Oprah pandering to AAs and coronations as the “One.”, the mass cult-a-thon on progressive sites. The harassing campaigns against everyday Hillary supporters by Obama followers. – something in the milk ain’t clean!

    Remember this post when you feel down – are you going to give in to “learned helplessness” and stay in the corner, or are you going to fight? You’re not a lab rat, you are a friggin PUMA!

    BTW, the word PUMA derives from the Peruvian Native American language of Quechua – and it means POWERFUL.


    The DNC & Obama cultists know that. Be proud, stand tall and stay alert, but NEVER let them put you in a corner.

  106. I’m gratified to see that our numbers are growing. Thanks to all those people that got busy organizing instead of staying in the corner. I’m keeping up with as many as I can, participating where I can. Go PUMA, Just say no deal. No BO

  107. Put a smile on folks!

    It’s tied at 45% to 45% according to Gallup!


    The media is cherry picking polls to fool us. We will not be fooled. Obama is not electable!

  108. Gary:

    As someone pointed out to Digby when she said something similar about Opossum’s support of the DP, how do you know?

    Maybe he really believes what he says.

  109. because my state has nothing better to do….

    RALEIGH, N.C. — Thanks to some text message-savvy grandchildren, North Carolina drivers whose license plates have the potentially offensive “WTF” letter combination can replace the tags for free.



  110. i’m a democrat- i’m not used to voting for winners. i’ve gotten to do it exactly three times since… 1972. talk about learned helplessness!

    actually, this low success rate taught me to stick to my principles, because, WIN OR LOSE, if you’re true to your principles, and are supporting the policy initiatives you believe in, you fought the good fight. and that’s what lets me sleep at night. i’m not one of the blogger boyz trying to convince myself that telecom immunity is a wonderful thing now that The One™ is in favor of it.

    if i were the kind of person who jumped on bandwagons, i would certainly pick another party to belong to.

  111. Hillocrats are a problem for Obama specifically in crucial swing states like PA, OH, and FL (MI too). Obama is a bit ahead in PA and OH but I wonder what a successful right wing hit could do to him in those states.

    Still, I’m wondering if the right will “bring it on” like they usually do. People are saying they’ll attack after the convention with Obama as the official nominee or if they are just in disarray/don’t like McCain enough.

  112. Garu, having worked on several death penalty cases, there is an easy answer to that question, “What if it were your son that was being put to death?” Of course if it were your daughter, you would feel rage, stupid question.

  113. WS, naw… I never underestimate Republicans. They aren’t in disarray, they are just silent, letting us rip each other apart and safely wait for August to attack.

  114. The OFB keep telling themselves that Opossum is really a progressive, he’s just “running to the right” in order to win the election.

    Denial isn’t a river in Egypt.

  115. I am right there with the rest of you. At first I thought it was me. Why could I not see something that apparently just wasn’t there to begin with.

    Since then I have received a massive education from voice from all over the country who honestly believed as I do. That the primary election was somehow rigged from the beginning to support a no nothing candidate against one who had it all.
    I kept thinking the fix was in back in February but I really became a believer on May 31st. Wholesale rigging.

    The DNC wanted something “new” and they got it. What they did not plan on was those of us who refuse to cave. If he wins, he does it without my help or my vote.

    They may have taken the wind out of my sails but not my bite.

  116. Has anyone seen any numbers on the Republicans who switched over for Hillary due to their dislike of McCain?

    From those that I have met, they are pretty much like PUMA’s, can’t stand McCain and think Obama is an empty suit.

  117. myiq: Isn’t that called pandering?

  118. Maybe it’s the Republican Clinton crossovers we need to start talking about. You know, the ones that didn’t vote in the primary but had every intent of voting for her in November.

    Her coalition was bigger even than it appeared these last several months.

  119. I’ve never posted to a blog before but I feel deeply motivated to do so now. I was an avid Senator Clinton supporter. But Senator Clinton was my choice because I bought into, hook line an sinker, the idea that I had to choose between the Democrats and the Republicans and she was as close to my issues of concern as I was going to get. After the complete revealing of the corruption and lack of regard that the Democratic party has for the issues that best support the USA and the people of the USA, I can no longer buy into the idea that I MUST choose between Dems and Repubs. Based strictly on issues I should have thrown my support behind a Kucinich or Ralph Nader, and I am doing so now. I will vote for Ralph Nader because he is right on the issues that are right for the American people. If enough people vote on issues such as health care, protecting our constitution and holding accountable Bush/Cheney for the Iraq war, Nader could win. Why are not blogs such as this, and their supporters, focusing on the issues and finding their way to Nader? Voting for McCain is a protest vote, voting for Nader is voting for issues that improve the USA and the quality of life for the American people.

  120. Regency: Those are the ones I am referrring to and there were a lot of them. These were people that I never dreamed would ever vote democrat, but saw Hillary as a moderate.

  121. Mimi20: Nader has no chance. Simple as that.

    WE are still committed to a Clinton presidency in 2008, but we will accept a McCain one should worse come to worse.

  122. mimi, because nader can’t beat Obama, McCain can

  123. Good morning – I don’t post too often – you guys are always way too entertaining and informative – but every once in a while – I stick in 2 cents – I read somewhere that this whole mess with the DNC & the Dems started with ted kennedy losing to carter back when. I was too young to vote for JFK & he was killed, I absolutely loved bobby & he was killed – I hate to say I love Hillary (but I do) – I didn’t & still don’t like ted – like benson said – you’re no JFK – the “elites” in the party started this campaign to get Dukakis & Kerry & the other losers to ‘win’ – Clinton was a “wild card” & look what he did – won twice & the rest were losers – looks to be continuing in that vein – anyway, paranoid conspiracy theory here – possum chief was noticed after big speech @ last conv they??? decided to groom for prez – don’t care if he loses they just want control of the party – figure there’s going to be all these new hip young voters (as if) and they can mold party to image they want – all the rest of us have been thrown under the bus & there’s no rescue coming – Hillary is trying her damndest to bring us back into the fold but it ain’t happening – don’t know how much truth there is to this but it sounds plausible IMO

  124. I’m thinking the next two weeks are going to be crucial. If in spite of the kind of noise they’re making with their faux polls the PUMA movement and Just Say No Deal coalition continue to grow, I think the SuperDs are going to start rumbling.

    I imagine then that they’ll start calling for Hillary on the ticket though she doesn’t seem interested. That’s when we’ve really got to rumble. No VP for HRC. Top of the ticket or no deal.

    Ads are going to matter more than ever.

  125. I guess that is the point I’m trying to make. He can win if people start voting on the issues that matter. I am angry about what is happening to this country and the people of this country. We deserve health care, etc. So why not vote on the issues. Why vote out of protest and anger. I don’t like Obama, but I can’t focus on “making him lose” because then we all lose…don’t we? And we end up pretty much where we are. I would rather organize around positive change to this political system, that each and everyone of us has allowed to get to this state of corruption, then to try and beat “them” at their own game.

  126. FYI — Harriet Christian has a good blogpost at NQ.

  127. It doesn’t help the progressive movement that the OFB has pretty much said they will vote for Obama no matter what. He has no motivation to stick to his principles, since he knows he will get a pass. He is free to run, drive, fly to the right all he wants.

    Who knows where he will end up on the spectrum?

  128. Interesting poll out in South FL: Obama leads McCain by 16 points. The Broward County Voter Registration site states Democratic registrations 486,004, Republican 235,193, and Other 216,191. I’m thinking that he should be much, much further ahead than this poll would indicate in this very important heavily Democratic part of FL>

  129. Nader will not win. It will not happen and that sucks. But he won’t win. Otherwise, I’d vote for him. Obama is the one I want out. McCain is not my particular cup of tea–though I’m about seven seconds short of being an outright Republican–but Obama is a tragedy wrapped in a catastrophe wrapped in a silk scarf. Can’t let him in the White House.

  130. I have a hard time buying Obama leading by that much in FL for any reason, especially given what other recent polling has stated.

    What the hell is up with the polling data lately? None of it reads reliably.

  131. Mawm:

    I wonder if there is anything that Obama could say or do that would convince the OFB not to vote for him?

  132. No, no, regency. He’s trailing in FL in most polls. This poll was taken in Broward County. He should be double that by our demographics.

  133. Susie a lot of us agree that the fix was in as early as the convention in ’04, chosing a speaker with so little experience is almost undeard of and even more seem to agree that Ted Kennedy is attempting to bring back Camelot and was in on this from the beginning. I have never bought into any conspiracy theories, ever. But there is always a first time.

    Mimi20 will not happen. A vote for Nader is like peeing northerly in a southerly wind. We do not want to vote McCain, but it is a protest vote, sometimes you have to swallow the bitter pill to get better.

  134. Good thing we are PUMA’s instead of rats! PUMA’s eat rats – the bigger, the juicier!

    Now, go and have breakfast!

  135. Chatblu: How many of these will it take to wake up the Party? How many pretzels do they have to twist their morality in to sleep at night?

    I’m barely sleeping at night! This is preposterous.

  136. Mawm wrote:
    It doesn’t help the progressive movement that the OFB has pretty much said they will vote for Obama no matter what. He has no motivation to stick to his principles, since he knows he will get a pass. He is free to run, drive, fly to the right all he wants.

    Just what the hell are O’s principles?

  137. What is the penalty for not voting for him? Refuse to let us eat lunch with them at the Kool Kidz table?

  138. “Part 1: Obama’s Conservative Meeting Guests (Non-Pastors)”

    Meet the conservatives, with ties to Republican Administrations, that Obama met with on June 11…

    Part 2 will focus on the pastors…

    Some of this so creepy….PUMA!!!!

  139. Pat J: The Kool Kidz table it the table for those morons who can’t spell.

    Come on over here, to the Cool Kids table. We can read and write and everything!

  140. Kim – Mawm – he doesn’t have any principles – he’s an empty suit – caught a glimpse of him giving answers to reporters yesterday & he was reading from a teleprompter – oh yeah – he’s the real deal – he stole Hillary’s agenda, her ideas, her answers, and now he’s trying to steal her supporters – some may go to the dark side but……………….the talking heads, the analysts, etc just don’t seem to realize how deep the anger is – this is more than being a sore loser – I am so angry that it is hard to contain – the ‘party’ thinks we will fall in line and come back but not me – if Hillary is prez nominee – I’m there like white on rice – if not, I will hold my nose & vote McCain & sit back and watch the Dems implode – then we can begin to take our party back & get Hillary in the WH in 2012 – I’m hoping I can hold on for 4 more years – hell McCain is older than me so there’s hope……………………………………

  141. regency, I do not know. When I read the article about the 16 pt. lead, it was written with an air of jubilation. All I could think was, if you cannot do better than this in this part of FL, you can kiss off this state but good. Broward county represents a chunk of registered Democrats in FL, and he should have a 50 point lead.


    Donna Brazile was not the campaign manager for Michael Dukakis in 1988. She was deputy national field director. Brazilezebub “resigned” (translation: was axed by campaign manager Susan Estrich) after suggesting that Vice President George H. W. Bush need to “‘fess up” about unsubstantiated rumors of an extramarital affair. Said Brazilezebub, “”The American people have every right to know if Barbara Bush will share that bed with him in the White House” (via Wikipedia, and my own memory). Isn’t she lovely?

  143. Obama reminds me of ther story of the guy racing to a job interview. He cuts off another driver and flips her the bird when the other driver honks at him.

    When he gets to the place he’s headed to, guess who the interviewer is?

    Since I won’t need my fingers to vote for Obama, I’ll give him one on election day.

  144. Donna Brazile-nut is the kind of person the old saying “With friends like these, who needs enemies?” was referring to.

  145. I love psychology and symbolism and syncronicity and the amazement of how it all works together. Magical thinking is fun, fun, fun!

    Are people outside of Chicago’s TV range of aware that on April 15th, 2008, a wild cougar (PUMA) was CORNERED behind a building in a SOUTH-SIDE CHICAGO neighborhood and KILLED by a group of Chicago police with guns.

    Well, to me, Riverdaughter’s post today explains how that fierce PUMA spirit didn’t give up, even when hopelessly cornered. It was temporarily silenced … but now has been resurrected through our ever-growing group to continue its work of making sure that no one else gives up and sits passively in that proverbial corner as the idiots try to bring our country and our lives down!

    BTW, I’m not sure how to create a link, but here is an address to the Chicago cougar story:


  146. Myiq2xu: “With friends like these, check your insurance policy.”

  147. Chatblu, isn’t Broward also Rep. Wexler’s county? He’s such a tool, did you see the cover for his latest book “Fire-Breathing Liberal: How I Learned to Survive (and Thrive) in the Contact Sport of Congress” in a boxer’s pose?

    He’s such a Massengil Disposable Product.

  148. Chatblu you are right. I live in Fort Lauderdale and if Obama does not win in South Florida by heavy numbers, he will lose. He needs the South to make up for the Republican North. I posted something similar to this last night on TL, and someone else responded with by referencing a Zogby poll saying Obama has overwhelming support in South Florida. The problem is, if Obama supporters are using Zogby as a reference to boost him up, then they are truly in trouble. Lately with all the Obama flip flops, the Myth that is Obama does not live up to the realty that is Obama. With a defection rate of 1 in 4 Clinton supporters voting for McCain, Florida will be Red.

  149. I can’t join PUMA PAC out of respect for my husband and children. As African Americans, they are the most sincere and proud Obama supporters you are likely to meet. They also still like the Clintons although my daughter did throw the “why didn’t she leave her husband” excuse at me and I set her straight on that one. And, they get it about the sexism….they just really think Obama is everything he’s cracked up to be and I don’t. Also, its deep, really deep how much it would mean to them to have an African American president. So for me to actively campaign against him would be unthinkable. However, I have made it clear that I don’t share their faith and enthusiasm and that my vote must be earned. Frankly, this has all been really rough on me. God how I hate it all.

  150. He represents extreme NBroward, the Boca Raton and Cypress Creek area. We also have Rep. Debbie Wasserman-Schultz and Rep. Kendrick Meek, son of the legendary Carrie Meek. He has book-signings coming up that I may have to sneak off to just to see how badly that they are going. His support of Sen. Obama has not played well with his Jewish Senior Citizen base. There was an attempt in a local synagogue to hand out Obama-logo’d yarmulkes. Some of the younger guys took them, most older ones did not, according to a friend who was on the scene, an observant member of the faith, and who was incensed at the attempt to ‘convert’ Hillary’s base.

  151. Hi, FLVoter! I live in Hollywood.

  152. North side. I meant North side, yeah.

  153. From a Hillary delegate blog:

    We have heard from some Super Delegates that behind the scenes there is
    anything but party unity. I received the following in the mail earlier this
    week and have spoken with a couple of Super Delegates that are expressing
    their discomfort and bewilderment with the current situation, the question
    is becoming why doesn’t the DNC want to win in November? Please read below….

    At the weekend state Democratic Party convention in Washington State, and at
    the California Executive Board meeting, the pattern was overwhelming:
    Clinton delegates were shunned aside, harassed by Obama national campaign
    operatives, and basically told that they were not welcome. Any talk of
    “party unity” is pure fiction. Top party officials confirmed that the Obama
    campaign and the DNC are being “cleansed” of all Hillary Clinton loyalists,
    and Howard Dean has personally let it be known that he intends to prevent a
    roll call vote at the Convention in Denver in late August, which would
    demonstrate the still-strong support that Senator Clinton enjoys among a
    vast number of Democrats. Traditionally, all major presidential
    pre-candidates address the convention, and a roll call vote is taken, before
    the winning candidate is anointed. “If Howard Dean could prevent Hillary
    Clinton from attending the convention in Denver, he would,” one top Clinton
    supporter reported.

  154. Carolina NYC – They freaking shot it!!! Don’t they have tranquilizer guns in Chicago, they killed it. How horrible!!!

    Maria – I feel your pain, my relationship ended over this election.

  155. maria, I’d really, really like an openly gay president too, but I’m not going to hold my breath till it happens, and I certainly am not going to sell out my principles for it. I’m sorry, but I am not going to vote for an inadequate, illegitimate candidate to sooth some people’s desire to have a president that looks like him. Doesn’t your daughter really, really want a woman president (who also looks like her). I am tired of this argument that somehow one group has precedent over others.

  156. myiq2xu, on June 26th, 2008 at 10:29 am Said:


    As someone pointed out to Digby when she said something similar about Opossum’s support of the DP, how do you know?

    Maybe he really believes what he says.


    Aye, sir, there’s the rub. I have no idea what the man actually believes. I’m putting my money on “very little whatsoever beyond his own ego.”

    What gives me the creeps is his fawning followers who have no problem with anything he does. I just peeked at My Old Board (I have to stop doing that, but as Jr sells ’em down the river, the schadenfreude is too much for me) and I saw one person post on the conservative folks Jr met with on June 11. One person replied. “What, is it wrong to talk to people?”

    That’s the crux of the creepiness.

  157. you know, I noticed that too last night with troll David who was badgering some of the commenters here who have stated they are AA females. Where does he get off using the excuse that he is a black man to intimidate women? I am so tired of men hiding behind their supposed “unprivelegedness” as black men in order to attack other disenfranchised groups like women and gays.

  158. Kim said: “..everyone willing to shoot themselves in the foot, to appear cool and hip.”

    Exactly. Here in KY, the media portrayed us as dumb racist poor hicks if you voted for Hillary, but you’re young, hip, modern, upscale and educated if you voted for Obama. Hell, which sounds better? If you care about image [I really, really don’t] at all, you just stick on an Obama button.

  159. chatblu, my rep is Ron Klein, who I have been extremely disappointed in with his recent FISA vote. My republican mom’s rep is Debbie Wasserman Shultz and my mom absolutely adores her.

    I was very upset with Wexler’s actions towards Florida Dems. I can’t believe that any Florida Dem would advocate not counting our votes. Anyway, this year, I do not see Florida Blue and Obama and the DNC are to blame for that.

  160. Did Hillary vote on FISA?

  161. Here’s a line Jeralyn pulled from Scalia’s opinion:

    A constitutional guarantee subject to future judges’ assessments of its usefulness is no constitutional guarantee at all. Constitutional rights are enshrined with the scope they were understood to have when the people adopted them, whether or not future legislatures or (yes) even future judges think that scope too broad.

    Some of the reactions are annoying. While I seldom agree with Scalia on issues, the knee-jerk reaction of some people that anything he says is wrong is stupid.

    The same thing applies to McCain. Just because he’s a Republican doesn’t make him evil.

  162. FISA hasn’t been voted on yet, but yesterday they voted for cloture, which means no filibuster.

    Hillary, as well as Opossum and McCain did not vote, but it wouldn’t have made any difference anyway.

  163. I think the polls are bogus, particularly the ones straining to give BO a 12-15% lead. The Gallup poll didn’t show anything like that; Obama and McCain are neck to neck, the numbers falling within the margin of error. I also think they’re underestimating the Dem defection by only talking about Dems for McCain and not looking at the defections in the Independent Camp. That’s where I went and will probably stay until this crew of Democratic leaders are swept out to sea.

    As for the race card, the only difference now is Obama is playing it directly. For the past 6 months, his Obamatron army has whipped out the card at every opportunity, claiming even the Clintons were racist.

    It’s absurd, it’s boring and I hope it bites them all in the ass.

    What ever happened to the “post-racial” candidate? You know, I never understood what that meant. Obviously, neither did Barry. What an utter crock!

  164. They were so happy at the wedding, and their friends said it wouldn’t last:


  165. Alice:

    What irks me is the way the OFB give Opossum a pass (or even approve) for things they bashed Hillary on.

    They now have no problem with triangulation or saying anything to win.

  166. Myiq2xu: “Old politics” is the NEW politics.

    According to St. Obama.

  167. Sen. Obama’s failure to vote (not voting amounted to a No on FISA cloture) was confusing since he openly supported the compromised bill. Maybe he wants to look strong on terrorism, but have the safety of saying he did not vote in support of it. I guess he thinks people may take his failure to stand up for their constitutional rights personally. Oh, wait, it is just another way that Obama can be for and against something all at the same time. He must continue to be all things to all people. But for me I need a president that stands up for important issues.

  168. CB: That is why I am here. This makes my blood boil. The DNC’s treatment of Hillary Clinton and her supporters. Howard Dean and Donna Brazile, IMO, created this whole mess. They toyed with the process and tried to sell a candidate and they need to be gone, fired or whatever it is you do to get rid of people in their position.

    I can handle the bots, they are like the religious freaks that used to run around airports, they get on your nerves, but you can handle it. Obama, when I see him, I just change the channel, much like I do with Dubya.

    But Dean and Brazile, don’t even get me started.

  169. myiq: read this morning that Feinstein may filibuster it.

  170. myiq2xu: agreed. They’ll even say as much, admitting that it’s all about doing anything to win, and scold those who “don’t understand” politics. Even if I didn’t have an allergic reaction to scolding, I’d hate the hypocrisy.

    It feels like a downward spiral towards… what?

    If progressives no longer care about FISA and NAFTA, what the heck do they care about?

    Oh, wait. Don’t tell me. I know: Obama.

  171. Neither Senator Clinton nor Obama voted on the FISA bill. The disgusting McCaskill voted aye as did my DINO Senator Herb Kohl. My other Senator, Russ Feingold of course voted nay. But the vote was :

    Not voting/5

  172. Sorry Feingold: This is from Hillary’s voice:

    Feingold to filibuster warrantless wiretapping bill
    Sen. Russ Feingold, D-Wis., will take steps this week to filibuster a Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) reform proposal that provides retroactive immunity to telecommunications corporations that violate the privacy rights of customers by sharing information with illegal spying programs. Feingold and Connecticut Sen. Chris Dodd — both longtime critics of the immunity provision — indicated they would take steps to block the bill after members of groups such as TrueMajority.org on Tuesday urged senators to use all procedural strategies available to them to stall the rapid progress of Bush administration-backed legislation that would bar consumer lawsuits against telephone companies that are guilty of spying on Americans.
    That is LEADERSHIP.

    Reid to co-sponsor effort to strip retroactive immunity from FISA bill. (Think Progress)
    [Tuesday], Sens. Chris Dodd (D-CT) and Russ Feingold (D-WI) promised to do everything they can to strip retroactive immunity from “compromise” wiretapping legislation, including a filibuster. In a statement, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid’s (D-NV) office says he will co-sponsor and support their efforts.

  173. Kim I think the fact that the cat was sneaking around Chicago for days and people were aware and frightened of its power to be a strong image. They give excuses in the article about why it was a legal kill to be incrdibly similar to the excuses we’ve been hearing as to why Hillary’s shot for the Presidancy to be a legal kill. I hope that I am not offending anyone by my allusion to the Easter idea, but I find the coincidence (puma killed in CHICAGO—puma movement coming alive) shocking, and, in an American-Indian symbolism, collective-unconscious sort of way, I find it to be energizing.

    BTW, my blogging moniker is Karolina, which is pronounced Kah-roh-leena.

  174. FLVoter, I have heard from friends in Ft Lauderdale that they are not thrilled with Ron Klein, Between him and your mayor, it’s been a rough year there.

  175. True Majority is also reporting a Feingold filibuster

  176. OT, but important.

    for those of you near D.C.–be seen, please, in all your HRC glory

    Rally for HILLARY at Mayflower Hotel Tomorrow, Thursday, June 26th 5.15pm

    HRC people gather at the FRONT of the Mayflower Hotel (though it is likely HRC and BHO will come through the back or even side entrace). The point is to show our support for HRC to as many of the donors/guests for this fundraising event, as well as the public as they make their way home down one of DC’s busiest streets.

    Feel free to make your own signs with whatever message you wish, but the overriding message should be that WE SUPPORT HILLARY! Wear your t-shirts and pins too! The event starts at 6pm but please come at 5.15pm so that we can be ready and assembled

    Do it if you can!

  177. Karolina: sorry about the caro-karo thing I am from NC and live in SC. So Carolina is just a natural for me.

    I DON’T CARE, aren’t cougars/pumas endangered?

  178. Sorry am from SC & NC so Carolina comes naturally


  179. Sorry about the grammatical mistakes. I’m on the run, and thinking more quickly than I can write. And that’s my excuse & I’m sticking with it.

    Good luck garychapelhill and Mawm and anyone else going up to Unity.

  180. Chatblue, yes it has been very troublesome in Fort Lauderdale lately. The only good thing is that I believe Trantalus is running for mayor since Naugle is out of office. Yeah! I cannot support Cindy Hutchinson, she is my City Commissioner currently ,who is also running for mayor. Hutchinson is a big supporter of Ellyn Bogdanoff, the Florida House Majority Whip. At this point, the only thing I can say is that Klein is slightly better than Shaw was.

  181. This is a little off topic but applies to Obama’s actions regarding FISA etc.

    It seems that Obama is being criticized by various groups as being too much of something: far left, conservative and in the pocket of corporations etc. by left bloggers, african american bloggers and conservative bloggers.

    Coming from a culture which suffered under the Soviets I see a disturbing but logical trend. It seems that Obama votes for/uses things we see as conservative but in effect are tools which would keep an authoritarian government in power of whatever favor: FISA, telecommunications issue, media and message control, appropriation of symbology, doublespeak etc. -even if they are not in line with his “message”.

    He is using the tools which will get him and keep him in power at which point everything will change to a soviet style government. The bills he has helped pass will help him keep that power.

  182. @chatblu —

    do you have any more info on the synagogue incident you mentioned? I find it stomach-turning, tho hardly surprising. Specifically, I am wondering where and when ?

  183. Can I say that I don’t get “learned helplessness?” Seriously. And I’ve been through some shit that should have taught it to me.

    If nothing I do matters, then why can’t I do whatever the fuck I want? Okay, it’s oversimplifying — but if I truly do feel that we’re damned if we do and damned if we don’t, and as long as I’m not on the street or enduring any persistent physical pain … then why the hell shouldn’t I vote for whomever I want?

    If it’s “goodbye cruel world!” then why not vote for the war hero just to piss the bots off?

    At least that gives me the emotional payoff of thwarting them and watching them stamp their impotent feet and shriek over how eeeeeeevihl I am, which is actually rather fun.

    I got my vote, they want it. Heh. Tough shit, Obabies! You git nuthin from me.

    If I really am helpless, then I might as well do whatever amuses me. And pissing them off amuses me.

  184. *flavor (not favor)

  185. done4, I know what you mean. I was born in Cuba and see the signs. But you talk to most people in the USA and they think you are crazy to bring this up. But I hear you loud and clear. Been there done that too.

  186. @ellen- will try to find out the details but was within the lasr week.

  187. Kim, there was a big a big deal for several weeks on the Chicago newscasts about the fact that they were shot. I don’t think that anyone got in any trouble, though.

    “They give excuses in the article about why it was a legal kill to be incrdibly similar to the excuses we’ve been hearing as to why Hillary’s shot for the Presidancy to be a legal kill.”

    is supposed to be

    “They give excuses in the article about why it was a legal kill, and I find these excuses to be incredibly similar in their lack of common sense to the excuses we’d been hearing as to why Hillary’s shot for the Presidancy to be a legal kill.”

  188. Thanks chatblu. Anything you find out about this is helpful.

    SM — I liked your Massengil reference to that big-mouth Wexler!

  189. Wonderful to read this. The tactics of slander and mind games used against Hillary supporters are exactly why I can’t vote Obama, yet his camp continues to employ this strategy. So far, they’ve alienated Latinos, seniors, women, working class, and the entire states of PA, FL, MI, WV, KY as well as Puerto Rico. Now they are left with the consequences of that strategy and a defective candidate who needs to be bolstered by threats and insults.

    PUMA is on the prowl, and it’s interesting to see O&Co. running scared.

  190. I don’t know if you all know that BO is holding “house parties” (as in Move-On house parties) all over the country this weekend. These are house parties for Unity. Hmmmmm …….

    We should continue to visit BO’s website to see the goings on. I was somewhat surprised to see SO many of these house parties in my area, which is generally a conservative area even tho I am in California. (I am in Sacramento area) There are SO many of them all the way from Sacramento to San Francisco. Wow!!!

    Maybe Just Say No Deals should organize house parties to spread the word?

  191. Sheri: Great idea.

  192. @ellen-exiled: I called my friend who reported the Obama yarmulke sighting and she won’t say specifically which temple. Said to tell you that she has told the rabbi what she thinks of it. She said, and I quote, that they are “every-frickin’-where”. I know that I say a picture of them in the Sun-Sentinal, but cannot find it to save my soul. You can, however, google Obama yarmulke and see one. Frankly, to me this sounds like one of those Church and state things that the IRS should look into.

  193. I predict the amount of voter fraud in November will be astronomical and unproven. Isolated cases will be reported but no one will do anything. Obama is setting the groundwork by saying things like “there are 600,000 AA in PA who are not yet registered to vote”, and registering dead people and pets in LA. How many precincts are controlled by AA. We already have reports that in Texas caucus’s Obama’s people took control and reported higher voter turnout for Obama to the state then were actually present. Who will prevent people from voting multiple times in precincts where Obama’s supporters are in charge and all employees are Obama supporters. How many people do you think will be moving to Gary Indiana by November 4??

    REP voter fraud will pale next to the ‘Chicago machine.

  194. I wonder if I should register my Scottish terriers?

  195. why even bother commenting then..? elitist snob

  196. The difference between the Newsweek Poll and Gallup is huge. Gives one pause (or paws if you are a PUMA) – since we all know Newsweek and MSNBC are in this together.

    They may try to wear us down but I, for one, am only getting more annoyed as time goes on. BO’s empty suitness is more and more pronounced as time goes on. All he is doing is jumping on everything McCain has to say since he can’t come up with an idea himself. Can anyone tell me what BO stands for or has done in the Senate the last few years – does he even know where his office is located?

    Saw a NOBAMA sticker on a car this morning – made my day!

  197. Hi Sheri!

    I’m a couple hours south of you on Hwy99.

    We could hold house parties in the vacant houses caused by the housing meltdown.

    Then we wouldn’t have to clean up the mess afterwards.

  198. riverdaughter, I am in awe of you. thank you for everything you have done to establish and maintain the spirit of PUMA! Hear us roar!

  199. Lo: To me, that is just the point when I posted about BO’s “unity parties” and mentioned having “Just Say No Deals” house parties to make sure that people are informed voters. As is the case now, I am willing to BET that most of the people attending these numerous “unity parties” on Saturday, are NOT informed voters and know nothing about Barack Obama. They do not scour the news or make themselves informed like here do.

    It is important to KNOW the man and where he stands. I don’t like what I have seen in BO – I don’t “hate” him (I don’t really hate anybody) – I just don’t think he’s qualified to be President of the United States; I also don’t like his political tactics and lastly, I feel that I have learned a great deal during this process about the Democratic Party in general – and, it is not a good feeling. (A dedicated 40 year strong Democrat)

    I would like to look at your blog but you did not give a link. What is it? (That is if you have not already left.)

  200. Lo: You should check us out on Fridays when we’re drinking. Now that’s batshit insane.

    BTW – are you related to Behold?

  201. Lo, the reason Riverdaughter isn’t here is because she is working and can’t check in with the blog until she is home – so go back to your mama’s basement and do some laudry for once.

  202. myiq2xu: Ha! So true! Does anyone around here have a house left?

  203. Why stop at house parties? How about a program for recovering Democrats?

  204. SM you crack me up!

  205. chat, you mean like OA meetings? Obama Anonymous? for recovering cool-aid addicts maybe?

  206. Absolutely. A power greater than ourselves can siop us from partaking in that bottomless vat of kool-aid. We can have sponsors, meetings, and everything.

  207. Gary – aw shucks. Humor is a sporadic trait I wish I had more of – but did you see what myiq2xu wrote?

    To Obama-troll Lo: “Are you related to Behold?”

    “Behold” took off because Lo’s pits staaank.

  208. RiverDaughter your writing goes down as smooth as a nice glass of Grey Goose!

    Love it!

  209. Things that make you go “Grrrrr”

    Nicole Belle at C&L, talking about the FISA cloture vote (which limits debate):

    Obama and McCain were both absent, as was Clinton. Unimpressive, but unsurprising, though I suppose I’m disappointed by Clinton (Obama has made it clear he didn’t intend to try and stop the bill.) Clinton and Obama will claim there was no point since it wasn’t close. But, with their leadership, it might well have gone the other way.

    So Hillary doesn’t vote, and doesn’t make any statement that contradicts the presumtive leader of the Democratic party, and she gets singled out by Nicole.

    C&L has been an undeclared pro-Obama (like Donna Brazile-nut) site for months.

  210. I was more or less thinking: Do you really KNOW the candidates? Which I know they don’t because it’s just the American Idol concept. But, you are all right – dumb idea! As myiq2xu referred to: nobody has a house left in Calif or Fla anyway. (Must be why so many house parties around my area here are in the parks.)

  211. @myiq, So now it’s Hillary’s job to save Sen. Obama from himself, or is it to save us from Sen. Obama?

  212. Sheri:

    To plagarize a joke by Steven Wright about losing his job:

    “I lost my house. Well, I didn’t really lose it. I know where it is, but when I go there, someone else lives in it.”

  213. Chatblu:

    The latter, I hope.

  214. Gov. Sibelius, on how the GOP is going to go racist on Obama, in that they’ll say:

    ” ‘He’s not qualified, he’s somebody who should scare you. He’s too liberaI.’ ”

    The Kansas Democrat, often mentioned as a possible running mate for Obama, said those were all “code words” to try to make voters “uncomfortable.”

    “I don’t think anybody’s going to go directly at the race issue, but that’s going to be an underlying theme,” she said in an interview this week.

    Essentially, she’s now saying that any criticism of Obama’s experience or qualifications to be president are, ta dah!, <racist attacks.

    Obama scares me, but not bcz he’s a black man–he scares me bcz I don’t know how he will govern. His recent comments on the SCOTUS decisions has been revelatory, along with his pivot/flip-flop on FISA.

    But he’s not too liberal–if anything, he’s too conservative. Or authoritarian….

    But what the good governor says covers a whole hell of a lot of the nation. Wonder if the MCM will notice that this is the same game played against the Clintons?

  215. I think this election is going to end up in a landslide victory. its going to be the biggest loss in history that is why all the race call. He’s telling African Americans that he is going to lose because of his race. I wonder what he will say to me? I have been quite vocal that I am PUMA and not voting for Obama. I want to hear why I am not voting for him? I am black and at first I was proud of both of them–I am proud only of one. I am disqusted with Obama. I am tired of the race card being played. I am sick of the media giving him a pass. I am sick of his young supporters calling us names. I am sick of his calls for Unity and then somehow managing to give Hillary a big F**K You. I am tired of all of that. I want to know what he believes in but in six months I have heard nothing. I will vote for McCain and not George Bush.

  216. @chatblu —

    I really appreciate you calling your friend for me. Good on her for telling the rabbi what she thinks of this stunt. I will look on teh Google as you suggested. I don’t know about IRS, but it is more of the creepy church — state crossover like we’ve been seeing.
    Thanks again.

  217. Gary and Mawm, be careful and try to have some fun while you’re fighting the good fight!

    I keep thinking you’re going to UMA (as in Unity My Ass)

  218. Gary I could lead the OA meetings, I have been in recovery a year now with no slips.

  219. I have heard all these meetings are closed, no more bittergate. That way if he slips up, no one will report it.

  220. If the OA thing goes well,aybe we could get inro cult deprogramming,.

  221. kim, I never touched the stuff myself, so I’ll leave it up to you… 🙂

  222. Hillaryismygirl08: We don’t know what he believes in either. We are all pro-hillary here because we feel like she has better answers and can do the job. Most of us have been called more name than Carter has liver pills.

  223. As a recovering Koolaid drinker, coming out of the fog is bad, ugly. You are totally and completely depressed because you were so f%^king stupid. It is similar to buying a used car and having it break down on the way home.

  224. hey, just so everyone knows, I got nothing to post today (i’m trying to psych myself up for a 13 hour drive)…does anybody else? Myiq2xu, I thought you were going to be joining us….

  225. that’s what Obama needs, a big old sticker on his chest that says “AS IS”

  226. One owner, cream puff?

  227. Gary and Mawm-Be safe! Drive carefully, we need you!

    I always come in at the end of long threads. West Coast time, and much to respond to. Then I feel like “Thread Killer”.

    Earlier posts on malignant narcissist and toxic exes–TRUE! Mine was a toxic ex AND and a malignant narcissist. That’s why I just don’t see Obama as the Empty Suit. To me, he is dangerous.

    I put my toe in the water for McCain very slowly. Voting Republican–unthinkable! Then I got comfortable with the idea that a vote for him was appropriate in order to leverage our power. Now, my god, he actually feels safer to me!

    The best part is that if we all feel that ultimately we would vote for McCain over Obama, then we have so much power to change the convention. Breathtaking, really. This movement is awe-inspiring.

    I feel so peaceful in resolve, yet so determined in my rage.

  228. hi again all!

    I just did a big “G” Mozilla search on the words “just say no deal” (minus those quotes) and umm, I got 15,600,000 results! o my!
    now, maybe all of those aren’t pumapeople but, still that’s a number that strikes fear into a rats heart… ahem.

    yes RD, learned helplessness is one of the major causes of depression also you find this in domestic violence and this is why women can’t leave over time.

    I know you are a chemist, but I will say this — a chemist can learn from indigenous models as well as what big P is dictating. The last 20 years — there has been a concerted effort to push pills via target marketing until the public via learned helplessness, various HMO’s and insurance bad guys no longer want to treat by paying for MFT’s– those are Marriage and Family Therapists. For us, pills are a last resort. We get to the root causes of the problems in holistic ways, by talking and using all kinds of wonderful methods —
    Unforch, the big P wanted us out of business so they banded together and decided all sorts of things that have made a lot of us quit. The Social problems are very great now, and funding has been cut so badly that? Bigger problems to address via what is called ecopsychology — for instance, all of the pills have now been peed out and are in the water and food chain?

    Being a Green, I know this sort of thing. One thing though RD — you will always be a scientist, and that is so fab because this means you have a superb, inventive and wonderful brain. You can explore anything with that kind of knowledge. (not to mention being a fab writer!)

    In order to save this planet, we must try and go backwards — when things were simpler, like in our childhoods. I could see you being a chemist who learned how to fix the seas or cleaned up the water?

    anyway! I have a funny little set of videos up for you all to see over at my place if you want to come by, and laugh! And that Violet! She has taken on that vertiable oppossum quite charmingly….

    I love you all — and I’m only ever a click away, at http://vbonnaire.wordpress.com

    ps: I was thinking, maybe we should have a wordpress blog about women and choice? Stories about choices they made, and so forth — call it “Tales from the Feminine Underground” or something — explain the Second wave to all those lip glossed sweeties Violet wrote about…

  229. ps RD how can I get that pumapac graphic, does anyone know? I was wondering if I could put it in a side bar of the wp blog?

    ah well off to Corrente and Cannonfire my new two faves……………!

  230. Uh Oh!

    Am I smelling “Worst Person in the World” for Glenn Greenwald?
    Keith Olbermann: Then and now

    Here was Keith Obamaman then:

    On January 31 of this year, Keith Olbermann donned his most serious face and most indignant voice tone to rail against George Bush for supporting telecom immunity and revisions to FISA. In a 10-minute “Special Comment,” the MSNBC star condemned Bush for wanting to “retroactively immunize corporate criminals,” and said that telecom immnity is “an ex post facto law, which would clear the phone giants from responsibility for their systematic, aggressive and blatant collaboration with [Bush’s] illegal and unjustified spying on Americans under this flimsy guise of looking for any terrorists who are stupid enough to make a collect call or send a mass email.”

    Olbermann added that telecom amnesty was a “shameless, breathless, literally textbook example of Fascism — the merged efforts of government and corporations that answer to no government.

    Here is that same sad unbearable goofball now:

    Now that Barack Obama supports a law that does the same thing — and now that Obama justifies that support by claiming that this bill is necessary to keep us Safe from the Terrorists — everything has changed.
    Last night, Olbermann invited Newsweek’s Jonathan Alter onto his show to discuss Obama’s support for the FISA and telecom amnesty bill (video of the segment is here). There wasn’t a syllable uttered about “immunizing corporate criminals” or “textbook examples of Fascism” or the Third Reich. There wasn’t a word of rational criticism of the bill either. Instead, the two media stars jointly hailed Obama’s bravery and strength — as evidenced by his “standing up to the left” in order to support this important centrist FISA compromise
    ( … )
    Leave aside the fact that Jonathan Alter, desperate to defend Obama, doesn’t have the slightest idea of what he’s talking about. How can a bill which increases the President’s authority to eavesdrop with no warrants over the current FISA law possibly be described as a restoration of the Fourth Amendment? That would be like describing a new law banning anti-war speech as a restoration of the First Amendment.
    ( … )
    Obviously, Jonathan Alter has no idea what he’s saying, but nonetheless decrees that this bill — now that Obama supports it — restores the Fourth Amendment. Those are the Orwellian lengths to which people like Olbermann and Alter are apparently willing to go in order to offer their blind devotion to Barack Obama.
    Moreover, Alter’s own explanation is self-contradictory. In the course of praising Obama’s FISA stance, he says that a politician looks “weak if you’re flip-flopping” and “you look weak if you don’t fight back against your political adversaries.” But that’s exactly what Obama is doing here — completely reversing himself on telecom amnesty and warrantless eavesdropping, all in order to give the right-wing of the GOP everything it wants on national security issues in order to avoid a fight. By Alter’s own reasoning, what Obama’s doing is “weak” in the extreme, yet Alter bizarrely praises Obama for showing “strength.”

    These guys are behaving like the George Bush apologists. Isn’t it the creepy behavior we have been decrying over the past years? Since when are our own turning into the left version of Sean Hannity?

    This is pathetic but hey.
    “Glenn Greenwald, tonight Worst Person in the Woooooorld”.

  231. I love this place. In a week or two I might have more to contribute, but in the meantime, my sincerest thanks to all of you who have created this.

  232. MABlue, on June 26th, 2008 at 2:24 pm Said:

    Amazing! Keith O is such a schmuck. George Bush apologist is an understatement.

  233. I actually saw that KO rant on telco immunity – it was his most spittin’ commentary EVER! I felt sorry for whoever had to stand behind the camera. He had the whole kitty-butt expression (tightly pursed lips – in case you wonder) going too!

    I don’t watch anymore, but it is funny to hear how little he understands the material he covers.

  234. I’m a member of KOA. I’ve been in Olbermann recovery for 5 months now, and I feel sooo much better.

  235. Thanks for creating this site. I too am not voting for Obama. He might be smart but I don’t think he has good character–there is something slimy and evasive about him that doesn’t inspire my trust.

  236. Put up the Paypal thingy and we can help Gary and Mawm with their gas costs-which will be huge! Or direct me somewhere else?

  237. Moderation? Really?

  238. chatblu in too am in KO recovery. One of my symtoms is the desire to repeatedly kick myself in the a$$ for every watching the fool. At my age that could be not only difficult but dangerous. And I do not want to explain to EMT’s how I landed on the floor and broke something.

    Anyway I watch cable rating closely in hopes KO get lower than Glenn Beck which is about as low as you can go in all meanings to the term. Here’s the latest I got for Tuesday night from mediabistro:

    Cable News Ratings for Tuesday, June 24

    Ingraham kicked Tweety’s butt 192 to 125 @ 5p.m.

    Brit Hume stomped Gregory 334 to 99 @ 6p.m.

    Shepard Smith and Dobbs both kicked Tweety’s butt @7p.m.
    Smith 352/Tweety 115 and Dobbs 230 to Tweety’s pathetic 115

    O’Reilly 467 to Olbermaniac’s 314@8p.m.

    Hannity and Colmes 363 to Abrams 164. Larry King whups him too 293/164 @9p.m.

    Greta barely defeats Countdown @ 10p.m. 280/266 and Anderson Cooper beats Olbermaniac too 277/266

  239. PUMA!

    Oh, I already anticipated that everyone in the media would play it up like we are unified, and I already knew that all the polls would show whatever look best for Obama.

    I’ve already seen this game in the primaries.

    Obama is just one big pile of propaganda.

    Keep fighting ya’ll.


  240. Polls which give a wide margin to Obama are actually useful to McCain, as a GOTV tactic. McCain has problems with various Republican sectors, eg the Religious Right, but should he be perceived as in need they will turn out.
    What I can’t understand is why the polls are consistently interviewing more Dems than Repubs. How far is BO’s GOTV working? Are there really that many more Dems than Repubs?

  241. I really liked this post and probably for the wrong reasons. Your rat depression work sounds really, interesting?

    More or less I really do not dispute the accuracy of the polls like a few have here; I do however have to agree with your interpretation. It is June, a lot can happen between now and Nov. While BO’s polling is not good news for McCain; it is not insurmountable.

    It does seem like there is a lot of polls though. My theory is that media consumption of the election is down in comparison to the Democratic primary viewership. The media response is to do a ton of polling, just so that they have a “story.” I am not really sure if the media polling is greater than in other years but if you look at the organizations doing the polling it sure seems to be a lot of media organizations (Fox, Newsweek, CNN, etc…)

  242. Tonight on Larry King – PUMA Cynthia Ruccia will face Emily;s List
    Unity Pony riders. Not to be missed.

  243. Someone explain to me how being a feminist woman who dislikes being called a cunt-faced bitch makes me a Republican. I mean, speaking of all these accusations that we’re all secretly right-wing, and that our “attacks” against Obama (since when it the mere truth an “attack?”) are straight out of right-wing radio.

    They really honestly has no idea where to put angry feminist women. There still is no place for us in American politics! We’ve been voting for almost a goddamned century and there is still no place for us! It’s comedy!

    The right wing says we’re destroying teh fabric of the American family and that we’re emblematic of the liberal kooky left wing, and when we refuse to lef the left wing roll over us like a juggernaut, we’re straight out of right-wing radio. This is fucking insane.

    There is STILL NO PLACE FOR WOMEN IN AMERICAN POLITICS. There is literally no box or category for us to fall into — Republicans treat women like spoils or war, and Democrats consider us to be like any other publicly owned social resource. It’s comedy. I’m telling you, it’s fucking comedy.

    There is no party for us, no place for us — the right wing has been telling us to STFU and fluff their pillows for decades, and now the Dems are telling us we’re sweeties who have to get over it and fall in line. It used to be the right-wing Phyllis Schlafly who told us that sexism didn’t exist and being a woman was peachy-keen, now it’s the fucking Democrat Nancy Pelosi who says being a woman is peachy keen and sexism doesn’t exist anymore.

    We have no home in American politics — we’re the ultimate mendicants. So that means we can smash any house we want, really. We got angry when people said in 2000 that there wasn’t any difference between the two parties, but for us … there isn’t really. From both sides, it’s STFU and fall in line bitch, or you’ll make me angry. And if I’m screwed either way, I might as well vote my whims and my amusement. And right now, pissing off the Obabies amuses me. There’s my answer to learned helplessness — if I get no say in my fate, then I take no responsibility for it. 🙂 Might as well have fun with it, then.

  244. GOD, I hate posting on lynx …

  245. I left a message for Nancy Pelosi this morning, thanking her for her very insightful interview with Greta Van Susteren. I told her that I’d been having a bit of trouble deciding whether, in November, I’d vote for a 3rd party candidate, write in Hillary, or not vote for president at all. However (I told her), thanks to the Obama propaganda she spewed forth, as well as the bullsh*t about how once women compare McCain’s stand on women’s issues against Obama’s stand, she had no doubt we’d vote for Obama, she had convinced me to cast my vote for John McCain. I believe I might have mentioned how f*cking sick and tired I was of having women’s issues held over my head!

    I also told Ms. Pelosi that I would be supporting Cindy Sheehan as it was time for Ms. Pelosi to JUST GO AWAY!

    So, all California PUMAs, let’s work to remove Pelosi from office and get Cindy Sheehan elected!

  246. Mystic, ITA. We liberals always were so smug about how the Rethugs would never actually outlaw abortion because it was an easy way to energize their base.

    Well, guess what. The Democrats were never gonna truly safeguard it. They had women by the short and curlies for as long as they let it hang by a thread. They had a ready-made weapon to use against us to get us to fall in line, and moreover we’d kiss the fucking rod.

    They need to learn that it’s not going to work, that they have to start really delivering. We need, as I said before, to kick them in the teeth on this one so hard their heads ring. The truth is that NEITHER PARTY REPRESENTS US — “stick with me baby cuz the other guy’ll beat you more” is something I’m fucking sick and tired of hearing.

    Nancy Pelosi is the left-wing’s Phyllis Schlafly. “There’s no sexism and being a lady in America is just lovely, I don’t know what those bitter bitches’ problem is.” Well, Nancy’s gonna find out.

  247. The burried lead in Murdoch’s AP poll is:
    IT’S In the numbers they optimistically massage – 53% support BO – and in the missing ones too – how many of us support McCain?

  248. I’m just not buying into these polls. I believe they are being manufacture to fit an agenda. The Repugs are too smart to get pounced by Obama. There got to be someting waiting in the wind. I hate Rove, but he did not seem worried at all last night on Hannity and Colmes.

  249. I just read the NY times article suggesting that Clinton supporters are switching to Obama in large numbers. It made it sound very positive for him. My reaction is different – I think 53% is a small number, considering that most of her supporters were long-term committed Democrats and that their overall platforms are not that different. Maybe lots more people will switch, but I think this is evidence of very strong dislike of him.

    In every previous election, I may have been disappointed in the outcome of the primaries, but I immediately switched my allegiance to the Democratic nominee; there was never any question about who I would vote for. I think a lot of PUMAs would say the same.

    Sometimes you just have to go with your gut. I have never felt such antipathy towards any Democratic candidate before, and I believe I should pay attention to it. My subconscious is telling me something.

  250. If Bo continues his slide right, we might find out that he’s actually Rove’s Boy. Wouldn’t that be Machiavellian?

  251. 53% IS a small number, and they need much much more. The few people who voted for Ralph Nader in 2000 are still being blamed for throwing a close election, and that was far less than 9 million people.

    They are screwed, and I am loving every minute of it. That jelly-spined narcissist is going to be roasted alive.

  252. The last 2 days have not been kind to the Obama minions regarding Gallup.

    Gallup Poll – Election News June 26, 2008
    Gallup Daily: Obama, McCain Still Tied, Now at 44%USA Election 2008 Gallup Daily

    If so many of us are “coming around”, where is that hearalded bump. I do not see even a pimple!

  253. Learned Helplessness — !!! YES!

    There is so much text book psychological warfare going on in this campaign.

    I’m also a survivor of an extreme religious mother — who was very toxic in her fundamentalist way.

    Probably one of the main reasons why I got a degree in Psychology — that and my interest in Animal Behavior.

    One very important thing I learned in one of the many Psych classes I took — each of us are not really that unique. Yes we are all genetically unique and all that — but if you feel very strongly about something — there is a very high probability that you are NOT alone — that others in this world share your opinion.

    For instance I knew that if my gut reaction to Obama was disgust — then others share that reaction. If my opinion is that Obama is completely unfit to be the President of the US — then others have come to the same conclusion — using a similar logical path.

    So in the last few days we’ve seen Obama flip flop — this does not surprise most of us here — because we realized early on that Obama has few (if any) core values.

  254. These are some new 527 ads that might be considered… found them on YouTube… rate them and give them a comment…get the word out and pass these on please!

    I am new here and have been watching the site, but didn’t know how to join… perhaps I overlooked the obvious… GO PUMA’s

    and a great one too… Is Obama Your personal Jesus?

  255. Can anyone get info on the “un-sealed” Rezko testimony about his Obama donations? Why were they sealed? Is the judge part of the Chicago enforcers? ALso, why are there contribution limits but fund-raiser events cost thousands per person? Is bundling a way to get around campaign finance laws?
    Democrat for McCain

  256. Contribution Details
    Date: June 28, 2008 10:40 PM CDT
    Washington, DC 20016
    Amount: $42.44

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