One of the things I often hear when I say I won’t vote for Barack Obama is:
“But-but-but he and Hillary are identical on the issues!”
This mistaken belief, I feel, is one of the reasons people who ARE voting for Obama feel comfortable doing so. Maybe they didn’t get their first choice – or maybe they did – but either way, Clinton and Obama are both Democrats, right? And they both say the same things on most issues, right?
Right?
Well, here’s the rub. Hillary Clinton is credible when she says things like, “I believe in health care for every American.” Barack Obama, sadly, is not.
Several factors inform my faith in the promises of Hillary Clinton, but the main one is that she has a record of doing what she claims she would do as President.
For example, on health care, Senator Clinton is unassailable. She tried to push Universal Health Care through the Congress in 1993, but being “only” a First Lady, did not have the clout to hack through the jungle of Blue Dog Democrats and hundreds of millions of dollars of “Harry and Louise” swiftboating from the insurance industry. Even when HillaryCare failed, she still made lemonade from lemons, and was instrumental in getting SCHIP through Congress. Millions of children owe a debt of gratitude to Senator Clinton for that program.
As for Barack Obama, well…his plan is fundamentally weaker than Hillary’s. However, it’s still better than what we have now. Sure, he doesn’t have a record of accomplishment like Hillary, but it’s POSSIBLE he could get it done, right?
Right?
Here is the epicenter of the problem. Throughout the primary season, Barack Obama has lied so often that a veritable fog of cynicism surrounds his every pronouncement. And for Jeebus’ sake, don’t bring up Tuzla to me. Just listen to the IMPORTANT things Obama has lied about.
How about Iraq?
Obama has promised to get us completely out of Iraq in 16 months. Hillary’s hawkishness on Iraq was one of the main reasons that many lefties supported Obama. In fact, he hammered her constantly on her poor judgment in voting for the AUMF, which he successfully equated with “authorizing the war in Iraq.” (It did, but only if Bush met certain conditions, which he didn’t meet at all. Didn’t even come close.)
Unfortunately, Samantha Power, Obama’s top national security advisor, made it clear that Obama had no intentions of sticking to his promises:
“What he’s actually said, after meting with the generals and meeting with intelligence professionals, is that you – at best case scenario – will be able to withdraw one to two combat brigades each month. That’s what they’re telling him. He will revisit it when he becomes president,” Power says.
The host, Stephen Sackur, challenged her:”So what the American public thinks is a commitment to get combat forces out in 16 months isn’t a commitment isn’t it?”
“You can’t make a commitment in March 2008 about what circumstances will be like in January of 2009,” she said. “He will, of course, not rely on some plan that he’s crafted as a presidential candidate or a U.S. Senator. He will rely upon a plan – an operational plan – that he pulls together in consultation with people who are on the ground to whom he doesn’t have daily access now, as a result of not being the president. So to think – it would be the height of ideology to sort of say, ‘Well, I said it, therefore I’m going to impose it on whatever reality greets me.'”
“It’s a best-case scenario,” she said again.
And now, McCain and Obama are basically indistinguishable on Iraq, or so says the Iraqi Foreign Minister in the Washington Post.
It would be “the height of ideology” to stick to a campaign promise that you used to win the anti-war left to your side? Seems to me that it is the height of cynicism to pretend you are something you’re not.
If Senator Obama will pull back from his campaign position on Iraq, what else will he “change” his mind about?
Public financing, perhaps? Jerusalem? Iran? NAFTA?
How about FISA?
Back when the issue of telecom immunity came up in 2007, Chris Dodd stated he would filibuster it in the Senate. Barack Obama offered his support, along with other Presidential contenders Biden and Clinton. Now, the issue of telecom immunity is on the table again, for reasons no one outside of Nancy Pelosi’s living room can adequately understand (although I have my thoughts – tune in tomorrow…). Barack Obama has coronated himself king of the Democratic, er, Obama for America Party. Where is his commitment to stopping telecom immunity now?
His latest statement shows that he supports the so-called “compromise”:
“It is not all that I would want. But given the legitimate threats we face, providing effective intelligence collection tools with appropriate safeguards is too important to delay. So I support the compromise, but do so with a firm pledge that as President, I will carefully monitor the program, review the report by the Inspectors General, and work with the Congress to take any additional steps I deem necessary to protect the lives – and the liberty – of the American people.”
Translation: He will do nothing to back up his rhetoric. How utterly…unsurprising. Is this the change we can believe in – we can believe he will change his mind, any time he feels it is politically expedient?
Obama cannot even tell the truth about his own record. Oh, and remember that email that was going around saying that Obama had MORE legislative accomplishments than Senator Clinton? A complete and total fabrication.
Have I demonstrated sufficiently that Barack Obama has a massive credibility problem on the issues?
So no, please don’t tell me that he and Hillary Clinton believe in the same things and would fight the same fights as President. The fact is, I don’t have any idea what Barack Obama believes in. I have no sense of what his goals are. He would have to actually do something – pass a law, take a stand, make something happen in the Senate – in order to push aside that fog of cynicism even the eensiest little bit.
Otherwise, all I hear is “Promises, Promises” whenever he speaks. And that’s not good enough to earn my vote.
P.U.M.A.!
Filed under: Barack Obama, Presidential Election 2008 |
The Confluence 
Nobody know about his governing style, and what he will and won’t do.
Nobody knows what his backers expect in return.
Roll the dice!
I hope wordpress doesn’t eat the comments again, does this look weird to everyone?
Yes, let’s play roulette with the economy, foreign policy, the Constitution…
On second thought, let’s just nominate Hillary. 🙂
madamab,
Thank you for this thorough piece of work.
I am in the process of writing to The New Yorker to dispute a commentary by Hendrick Hertzberg. He says in his commentary that Obama has “an unblemished record of support for the goals of the mainstream women’s movement.”
Can anyone provide me with a link to the “present” votes, and a refutation of the idea that Obama voted present to provide cover for other Dems?
I would be most grateful.
Thanks again, madamab. Your effort is exceptional.
Thanks, dwwenz! 🙂
Gary – I agree, the comments look weird! It wasn’t me, I swear…
wow… I am amazed that there is really nothing positive about him.. I can’t think of one thing I could trust him on.
Comments look good to me.
:>)
gary, yes,
this post is weird: the comments are pushing to the left side of the screen and the blogroll has slipped down off the white paper to the right
Obama lies!
Obama is backing President Bush and his warrantless spy bill..what you think about that?
http://goodtimepolitics.com/2008/06/20/obama-flip-flops-in-favor-of-president-bush/
katiebird is helping to fix it…sorry guys, but Blogger accepts HTML that WordPress does not…
Gary,
The comments are way over to the left of the post for me and the blogroll is down on the bottom again. Madamab, what kind of formatting do you have in your post?
Oh good. I thought the formatting might be the problem.
we’ve all moved a little to the left tonight 😉
Gary,
I would trust Obama to grab up every single dollar and bit of loose change he can get his hands on. Maybe that’s the “change we can believe in.” Have you heard he is now talking about spending 500 million on the general election campaign? People are saying he has single-handedly destroyed what was left of public financing.
I’m dizzy.
I am calling on all Hillary supporters to support Ed O’Reilly in the senate race in Massachusetts. If we can defeat John Kerry in the Sept. 16 primary (or at least give him a run for his money) we will send a loud and clear message that Hillary supporters will not be silenced.
http://nobamanews.blogspot.com/
Gary,
Heh.
yeah, that’s really obscene
dwwenz,
What examples did Hertzberg give to support his statement? How nice to have another man telling us dumb women that we don’t know what’s good for us!
for seven years, I’ve wondered if Bush is actually evil or if he’s just dumb and gullible. every time I think I have it figured out, he does something to make me think the other way.
now we have Obama. either he really believes he has the infallible judgement and instincts to pull off the top job without working his way up, or he’s just in it for the glory. I can’t tell.
both are amazingly arrogant, not a positive trait in a public servant.
How many times have we heard, “she’ll do or say anything to get elected.”
And her name is Obama.
The comments are on the left instead of the right. Is there some secret significance to that?
Excellent post, madamab. Very thorough and well-researched. To those who say Obama is similar to Clinton on the issues, I say: I don’t know where he stands on the issues. The more we get to know him, the more we find that we just can’t trust him.
I didn’t trust Obama from the beginning. His anti-war stance seemed good, until I discovered that it was entirely based on one speech before he was in the Senate. I watched the debates and found him thoroughly unimpressive (“uh…I agree with Hillary!”). I checked his record and was underwhelmed, even more so after I did more reading about his bill-jacking in the IL State Senate. I heard him praise Reagan as an agent of change, while trashing the Clinton legacy. I heard him say at the “faith” debate that we should be considerate of the feelings of pro-lifers and that he hadn’t figured out whether life begins at conception. I saw him preach Unity while running a dirty, divisive campaign.
I said at the beginning that he’s an empty suit controlled by corporate interests. Nothing I have learned in the intervening months has changed that opinion.
For all of these reasons, I cannot cast a vote for him. The fact that he has a “D” next to his name means nothing to me, especially considering the behavior of the DNC in this primary.
boston,
Hertzberg states that Obama was raised by a single mother, married a strong-willed woman, and has two daughters. That’s IT.
In my letter I point out that my father fits that bill exactly and he has done more to promote women’s rights than BO.
I am fed up.
Lambert’s got a post about the New Yorker. Is it relevant?
dwwenz…Obama was not raised by a single mother. He was raised by his grandparents. His mother was single for 2 freaking years.
Pathetic that he lies about EVERYTHING.
katiebird,
I don’tknow where to find Lambert. (sorry for my ignorance).
Any link to BO’s “present” votes would be most appreciated.
I’d be happy to get feed back on my letter, too.
Once I have the “present” info, I will incorproate into my letter and let others read/review it.
hey, is regency here? her post is a “hawt” post on the wordpress home page!!
I thought Obama was raised by his grandparents, and that he and his grandfather used to exchange meaningful looks about what a dumbass his grandmother, who supported all of them, was.
dwwenz, sorry! here
kiki – LOL!
madamab,
The commentary is totally Hertzberg’s. (Although, for all I know, he may be working for Obama.) He is wrong on just about everything. I wish I knew how to link it. If you go to newyorker.com, you will see a link to the commentary.
BB, lol about the “change” we can believe in. it was money all along! THAT kind of change. oy
Did he just throw the cheetos under the bus with this vote?
I subscribe to the print edition of the New Yorker, have for 30 years, and they have been very pro-Obama in the “Talk of the Town” section. not overtly, pretty subtly. it’s bugged me for a couple of months now. I haven’t read the currently discussed article.
But, but, he’s got money.
And he can read from a teleprompter.
And his wife’s being groomed.
And it’s all about the unity.
katiebird,
Thank you for the link. It looks like the New Yorker has been swimming in the koolaid for awhile.
The story you link is not the same as what i read in the 6-23 issue, but what difference does that make? The New Yorker is another piece of trash. I have decided to stop recycling it through various goodwill agencies. Better that it serves as compost.
Bwaaaahahahahahahah!
I just took a quick trip over to the Cheeto. They are sooooo disillusioned over there. They are crying in their beer. I even saw a few comments like this “The Democratic party lost me today. I’m never giving them another cent!”
Bwaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahah!
ben carlson – Mmmm, crunchy! 🙂
I know little about the cheetos, never hung out there. but I looked at one thread today where many were threatening to withhold their monetary contributions (they’re probably the ones who don’t contribute anyway) and vowing to swamp his office with phone calls and emails.
except….they were all going directly to voicemail and getting a message that the voicemail box was full. poor bots
of course the cheetos are also saying that obama has a 15 point lead over McCain according to Newsweek Poll. Hmmm…it’s only two points in Gallup tracking. Four points as Rasmussen tracking. I’m thinking the Rs are going to keep waiting on this because he seems to bounce back fairly quickly from controversy. I just don’t get it.
The cheetos have been under the bus this whole primary, they just didn’t realize it.
Those bot pods should come on over – PUMA can be orange.
Hi Charles,
I’ve got absolutely no ability to read anything more than comments tonight. I had a medical procedure this morning and I think I’m working on 1/4 of my brain.
The cartoon was funny but, I can’t begin to read the rest of your post.
I guess I’m somewhere on the left side of that cartoon. And not just ’cause I live in Kansas….
dwwenz, is this the article you’re referring to? Somebody posted this excerpt in my LJ community today:
“.it does not belittle the oppressions of gender to suggest that in America the oppressions of race have cut deeper. Clinton’s supporters would sometimes note that the Constitution did not extend the vote to women until half a century after it extended it to men of color. But there is no gender equivalent of the nightmare of disenfranchisement, lynching, apartheid, and peonage that followed Reconstruction, to say nothing of “the bondsman’s two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil” that preceded it. Nor has any feminist leader shared the fate of Medgar Evers, Martin Luther King, Jr. and Malcom X. “
MadameB, sorry for the off-topic reference, but did anyone see this yet:
http://www.abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/story?id=5215668&page=1
…….
Sources at the meeting said that Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee, D-Texas, a Clinton supporter, expressed the desire that Obama and his campaign would reach out the millions of women still aggrieved about what happened in the campaign and still disappointed that Clinton lost.
Obama agreed that a lot of work needs to be done to heal the Democratic Party, and that he hoped the Clinton supporters in the room would help as much as possible.
According to Rep. Yvette Clarke, D-N.Y., Obama then said, “However, I need to make a decision in the next few months as to how I manage that since I’m running against John McCain, which takes a lot of time. If women take a moment to realize that on every issue important to women, John McCain is not in their corner, that would help them get over it.”
Rep. Diane Watson, D-Calif., a longtime Clinton supporter, did not like those last three words — “Get over it.” She found them dismissive, off-putting.
……………….
Ya think? I’m ready to shift to California just so I can vote for Watson!! Lady, I’m donating to your campaign for the rest of my life!
stillife…please tell me that is made-up. No one assassinated Susan B. Anthony, so racism is worse than sexism?
[sticks Cheeto in eye]
can you imagine if the cheetos actually got to leave their messages…….I picture this scene in the Obama offices: “everybody, grab a beer and come listen to the nutjobs who left messages” and then they’d laugh hysterically as the blogger boys asserted their ‘authority’ and warned against disappointing them……they are the equivalent of Bush’s fundies – used – and are maybe just beginning to realize it.
Chevalier – thanks for the link.
I am so disgusted with Obama and his fearmongering bullshit. He is no better on womens’ issues than McCain when you look at his lack of action on that front.
Just words, Obama. Just words.
Boston Boomer,
You’ll appreciate that I went over there to sammyc’s top-of-the-reclist diary and suggested that people could always ask for their campaign donations back. Evil, I know, but that’s how I hang sometimes. Hehe. 😀
Peacocks and Lilies
Hope I’m not doing a repeat, but have y’all seen Obama’s Great Seal?
Keep a basin handy in case of nausea. Made me feel sick to my stomach–but even more sick at heart, given his brave defense of the House FISA bill….
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/06/20/the-great-seal-of-obamaland/
I read somewhere earlier that Axelrod had already spent 300 million on Obama’s campaign with another 500 million expected to run through November. That’s 800 million on the line to buy the Presidency of the United States. Sorry, but all that money is not going into ads and expense sheets. This is the pay to play game all over again.
As for HRC compared to Obama on policy? Senator Clinton has an actual record of work, roll up your sleeves work on the issues and policies. Obama has paid lip service, period. Of course, we all know “words” count. Only without action, nothing gets accomplished with words alone. It’s just another piece of the fraud puzzle–mimic what your opponent says, what you think the voters want to hear and keep your own agenda close to the vest.
Who do you think should be POTUS?
Wake up America.
Clearly Hertzberg is ignorant of the treatment of women throughout the centuries. Until quite recently women were nothing but chattel. They were no better than slaves in many cases, forced to bear children, unable to own anything–the were property. It was quite legal to physically and sexually abuse women. If anyone objected to rape, it was because of damage to the property of a father, brother, or husband.
And much of this was still legal well into the 20th century. When I was in my early 20s, a married woman still could not get credit in her own name! Rape was not treated seriously, and child abuse didn’t have a name yet. Hendrik Hertzberg is an idiot. I hate to admit that at one time I liked his writing.
madamab, I don’t have a link to it, but apparently it is an excerpt from an article in the 6/23 issue of the New Yorker. Ugh.
Great post, btw. I posted a comment earlier but it’s still awaiting moderation.
Obama really said “If women take a moment ….yada yada….. get over it.”?
well, thanks! he gave us a MOMENT after months of put downs? how very generous!
bostonboomer — you’re making me laugh! (stop!)
Hertzburg is an idiot. We live in a patriarchy and it’s as old as time.
bostonboomer, exactly my reaction. And of course it’s still like that for many women in other countries.
Even today women are murdered on a daily basis, often by their husbands and boyfriends. A pregnant women is a great risk for abuse and murder. In fact murder is the number one cause of death for pregant women in the U.S. Rape is common in this country. The fear of being raped and/or murdered makes many women afraid to go out at night in certain neighborhoods. These crimes are used by our society as a whole to keep women under control. To a lesser extent, the kind of sexism that Hillary Clinton faced in her campaign is a part of this societal process of control of women by fear.
Sorry for the “feminist” rant. I’m done now.
how are we the only ones out there who see this man for what a jack ass he is? am I missing something? maybe it’s because i don’t watch tv. i just dont get it. apparently, the Rs are so hated that Marion Berry could get elected president this year.
Forgive my promoting this post…
http://cannonfire.blogspot.com/2008/06/nafta-double-think.html
…but I think it offers the very best rundown available on Obama’s shifting NAFTA positions.
In 2004 he strongly supported both NAFTA and the WTO, that bete noir of nearly all leftists. He said:
““The United States benefits enormously from exports under the WTO and NAFTA.”
Three years later, running in the Ohio primary, Obama produced campaign literature which falsely ascribed a pro-NAFTA quote to Hillary. (She didn’t say it.) And then he misrepresented his own position:
“I don’t think NAFTA has been good for America — and I never have.”
His ads read: “Only Barack Obama consistently opposed NAFTA.”
Remember NAFTA-gate — the outcry over Obama’s back-channel reassurances to the Canadian government that his anti-NAFTA rhetoric was a mere pose? Keith Olbermann and the Cheeto-head managed the formidable trick of turning this scandal against Hillary.
They proposed a bizarre conspiracy theory whereby SHE was the one who made the back-channel overtures and cast blame on Barack Obama. As part of this outrageous propaganda barrage, Kos printed a libel against a Canadian reporter that, by all rights, should have resulted in a lawsuit.
The Canadian government investigated and found that Barack Obama’s team had indeed given back-channel assurances. Hillary was completely innocent.
And now Barack Obama has broken the hearts of the lefties who were expecting him to end NAFTA.
Is someone writing a book about all this…?
ben carlson – we are paying attention and taking notes. Should Obama become the nominee in August, we will see the rest of America turning into PUMAs as the 527’s do the vetting the Democratic Party wouldn’t…
bb, the comment that made me laugh wasn’t the chattel comment — you are dead right about that one.
Ben,
That would be a great study. How does watching TV news effect ones view of Obama. How does not watching it effect it? Most people I know won’t watch TV news unless an ongoing national or regional catastrophe is happening, and most of them have a clear eyed view of Obama. It would be cool to do a poll of some sort to see how it shakes out.
madamab, (smile) — Yep.
the general public does not care about FISA. wow, you know what is frightening to me is that O really doesnt have any moral compass except his own narcissism. thats what makes him so frightening. and unfortunately these are the types of people who win elections.
Nathan, on wouldn’t expect Hillary to have marched in there against a futile effort. It’s clear to me that a) the Dem’s wanted the immunity, and b) Obama wanted it. They don’t want to run against FISA in the GE. Pathetic. The fix has been in for a while. This has just been a show for us little people.
annabellep,
I confess I left a little snotty comment of my own on Hunter’s post “Obama thinks you’re stupid.” Duh! He just figured that out today. Jeeze, Obama has milk those poor dopes for every cent he can get out of them, and they never made a single demand on him. I’ll probably get troll rated, but who cares?
at this point it doesnt seem like there will be any 527s. its like the Rs just dont care. i guess i’m growing impatient. but with this continuous newsloop they have to time it perfectly. but doesnt the general public know everything about this guy by now?
katiebird,
Thanks for clarifying. I thought you were laughing at my rants. Not that I would mind….
The chattel metaphor is very powerful. I think UNICEF actually uses it in their statement on the treatment of women world wide.
Bostonboomer – In one of Molly Ivins books (can’t find it) she gave the date that women were finally NOT chattel in Texas – I think it was in the 80’s that it was finally officially taken off the books.
And she tells of a grave in the Hill Country – a man with all the info on the stone and beside him the grave simply marked “wife”. No date – no name. Chattel.
ben carlson – nothing will happen till after the nomination. It’s boring and frustrating as hell without Hillary to make things exciting again, but the Republicans are not going to waste their fire (and money) on Obama if Hillary pulls out the nomination.
I’ve come to believe that the average American cares a lot more about who is on American Idol than about their government. gas is pissing people off right now, and that’s a plus for Obama because he’s not affiliated with the party in the white house. if Bush’s plan is to make the price of gas fall dramatically in October, then McCain will get a bump. it’s all theatrics, and it’s mostly all fiction. our role is to react predictably. let’s not.
The folks over at Firedoglake and Eschaton are also wailing about Obama’s cave in on FISA. Atrios actually made him “wanker of the day”. I feel soooooo bad for them,… not! Reality, meet the creative class.
Melanie –
Even more…had she taken a strong leadership stance, while Obama didn’t, the entire Party Leadership would have screamed she was trying to steal Obama’s thunder. Let Obama fail on his own terms. Leave Hillary out of it.
Kiki,
Yesterday, “There is no spoon” wrote that he had called Obama’s campaign and explained that he (TINS) was the blogger who had revealed the “fraud” committed by the Clinton campaign in Nevada. And he would appreciate it if Obama would take action on the FISA bill.
LOL! He seemed to actually think they would be impressed with who he (TINS) was and would light a fire under Barack right away. What a bunch of loons! They’re nothing but patsies being used as Obama’s ATM machine. And Pelosi thinks she can keep on taking their money. Good luck with that.
“Chattel metaphor?” It’s not a metaphor, Nathan. It’s reality. And the results of that actual history are still felt today–every bit as much as the result of slavery. But women are just supposed to accept being raped and murdered and called names and generally treated like crap and just get over it.
The misogyny that has surfaced in this campaign has brought it all home again–at least for women my age who remember the really overt discrimination we suffered. Obama has stirred up two hornets nests–racism and sexism. If he’s elected he’ll pay a terrible price and so will our country.
I think you’re right this is truly problematic but my point is that ONLY 3 senators didn’t show up to vote on the bill and one of them is Obama (VERY SHAMEFUL) and another was Clinton (much less shameful)
bostonboomer – Oh, that is so sad. But not unexpected. These Obama bloggers think they are whales in a pond, when they are really goldfish in a bowl.
Actually folks – i should take this back – i believe now the sources i was using to cite these arguments is incorrect. I’m going to email the author and find out but i believe this was a reference to the February votes on the 2007 amendments. Commence jokes about Obama supporter running mouth without the facts now…
madamab, on June 20th, 2008 at 10:29 pm Said:
Even more…had she taken a strong leadership stance, while Obama didn’t, the entire Party Leadership would have screamed she was trying to steal Obama’s thunder.
Oh, yes, obviously. To me, this is what the Dem establishment and obama wanted. The rest is theatrics. If Hillary made a fuss they would burn her at the stake.
P.S. A hearty “You go girl!” to BB for her feminist rants! 🙂
dwwenz,
i don’t know if these help but here are links i have on Obama’s present votes and abortion (there were other present votes)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/04/AR2008020402980.html
and on the Roberts’ confirmation. He also voted against filibustering the Alito nomination.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/26/AR2007082601446_pf.html
http://www.reclusiveleftist.com/?p=845
http://www.correntewire.com/the_supreme_court_argument_for_obama_or_how_the_democrats_are_already_planning_to_surrender_to_mccain
this link is more general but includes a comment that says that not only did Obama first want to vote for Roberts (covered in links above) but that his aides had to get him to consider the effect Roberts’ confirmation would have on women and that Obama’s website says that women should retain SOME control over their bodies is
# http://elizabitchez.blogspot.com/2008/03/guest-post-by-soopermouse.html
the Obama quote about being willing to support an Attorney General who opposed abortion (“if he (AG nominee) came before us and said I oppose a woman’s right to choose, or I oppose abortion, I find it religiously offensive, and yet I do respect, for example, the notion that we shouldn’t be solving these things with violence, historically, if that had been what was said, then I don’t think I would object. And I think that’s a fair position to take.”) is here http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/01/obama-in-2001-r.html
hope these links help.
boston, my mother thinks feminsim was a blip. Women today are actually facing overt sexism they just play along. They literally can not see it. But, I think young women are more objectified than when I was in my teens and early twenty, just 15 short years ago. Some things have improved, but some things have actually declined.
I noticed a bunch of kos et al comments that they weren’t going to contribute, were unsubscribing from O’s email, etc and all they were going to do was vote for him. Duh, yeah, as if that will really prove a point, won’t it. Just keep voting the crooks & liars in office, folks.
bb, thank you for saying that about women being chattel. it was only recently that women have been recognized as humans, not property. we’re not there yet. children are even further away from being seen as fully human and not property of their parent.s. Clinton has been a great leader on getting the world to focus on women and children as property and in trying to get full human rights for all of us.
Remember what Hillary said about sexism?
Could she BE more Presidential?
Excellent point-she DOES do what she claims she would do as president. Why all the zombies supporting a no-resume candidate? “Cause it’s just like ‘Survivor, you know?? Like, outwit outplay outmaneuver outlast, totally”. I swear to you, I actually had this conversation today with one of those cliche’d youngster NeoLibs . That’s it!!! They’ve been watching ‘reality teevee’ too long to distinguish entertainment from enlightenment. Lord have mercy.
sigh….the Democrats threw away a winner
Melanie,
You’re absolutely right. We thought we were so smart participating the “sexual revolution.” Changes were really needed, but society used those changes we made to open up the floodgates and there really is a lot more pressure on young girls today to be thin, sexy, and to have sex way too young. The burden is still on women in every way. Society has never really pressured men and boys to take responsibility for their sexuality in the same way as women are pressured. And women’s bodies are still seen as “owned” by men.
Melanie,
my daughter (who just graduated from high school) sees it. so do her friends. i don’t think she sees a lot of it but, then, she hasn’t started her career. but she does notice things like almost all cardiologists are men but many PCPs are women and ALL the office staff are women.
i know when i was younger i thought things were much better than they had been in the 1960s or 1970s. but, as i got older, i saw it was really only true for entry and mid-level jobs. and there was discrimination and inequitable pay there too. i think younger women may think, as i did, that most gender discrimination has been eliminated. they won’t realize that’s not true until they run up against it.
Oh dear, I think I drove everyone away….
no BB, not at all. I think you may have everyone thinking.
Irlandese – that’s really sad. They think it’s a game. Meanwhile our country is in a recession, millions losing their homes, gas $4.50 a gallon, 47 million in poverty…and the Middle East is in flames.
I’ve felt strongly about feminism since the 60s, but it’s difficult to put my feelings into a couple of lines post. plus I’ve been so angry lately, and would rather come across thoughtful than angry.
fuzzybeargville is back all I can say is Mr Obama…
Have you no decency sir? I ask again, have you no decency?
fuzzybeargville
{{BB}} Not at all. I’m just lurking though, so it’s hard to see me here.
madamab — and all we Democrats are going to put up to fight those issues is a guy who’s barely held a full time job. Unbelievable.
Nope I’m still here, enjoying reading your comments. My Mom says she doesn’t think women will be truly equal, if ever, until 100s of years from now. She thinks liberation is *just* starting and it’s gonna take a long time to get it. Every bit of society will have to be restructed, every bit.
I hate to say it, because it’s such a pessimistic view, but I think she’s right. Of course, she also says to fight now, fight long, fight hard, fight forever, or the changes won’t even come in a hundred years.
When Hillary announced for President Mom said, ‘I’m supporting her, I’ll vote for her, I’ll fight for her, but they won’t let her win. I already know it.’
Never wanted my Mom to be wrong so badly before. Heh.
Boston, it’s also the media/marketing climate they are in. Do you remember when abercrombie and fitch tried selling g strings in their pre-teen store a few years ago? One rep said it was “cute”. It was terrible.
hey Fuzzy! how’s your mom?
I hate to say this, but I thought the same as your mom about Hillary. I never thought they would let her get the nomination. I thought that from way last year. But then when she started to do so well and was such a strong, tough candidate, I got my hopes up. Frankly, I still haven’t given up and I won’t until the votes are counted in Denver.
fact is, Obama is up for sale to the highest bidder!
EVERY CRITICAL ISSUES he’s stated a firm position on…
HE HAS REVERSED!
Obama is dangerous, not only to the country but to the REAL ADVANCEMENT of progressive issues of health, environment, and returning a level playing field to ALL Americans who have been assaulted under the feudalistic policies of the Repukes!
If Obama is allowed to run in this GE, believe me, the progressive brand is going to be stained by these ignorant and self-serving neo-liberals who have sought to circumvent a real primary in order to install this incompetent, corrupt and dangerous “personality in an empty suit”.
Melanie,
No, I didn’t know about that. How awful.
Linda –
Woooooorrrrrddddd!
At this point, Obama can have the progressive brand. I’m taking the liberal brand back. I never thought it was a bad word, and it needs to be rescued.
Sima… Liberal and proud of it.
and I’m not a danged libertarian, which is what Obama’s brand of ‘progressivism’ seems to be about. I’m a liberal. Good government for all the people.
lynnerkat … seems there is an antidote to Hopium … a good dose of reality given when something you actually care about is thrown under the bus ….
how big is that damned bus now?
i am also proudly liberal, very liberal even….
Apparently the bus broke down, and is being pulled by a truck!
Sima –
OMG, yes. Liberals should never have allowed blowhards like Limbaugh to take that word and make it negative.
Oh, how I wish I had money and influence. I would meme the hell out of how Jesus was a liberal.Up yours, wingnuts!
Me too, gary. I’m so liberal, I’m to the left of Kucinich…well, ok, not thaaat liberal.
Sima,
With all those sad sad Obama bloggers under the bus now, he is going to need a caravan of buses stretching for miles and miles.
Gary, maybe you should put up the “under the bus” video again for late nighters. What do you think? I loved that guy.
Susan Hu has a great post up at No Quarter making fun of the O-bloggerz and how sad and blue they are about their hero’s betrayal. How could they have expected anything else? What is it that makes us able to see what he is, and these people see what they want to see?
Melanie:
‘I’m so liberal, I’m to the left of Kucinich…well, ok, not thaaat liberal’
Hehehe. Made me laugh. I’m actually just about as liberal as Kucinich, maybe a bit more. But I like to think I’m a bit more grounded in reality. On the other hand, who knows about Kucinich, I very much doubt the press gave him an even handed assessment, eh?
Universal health care for all, strong FDA with adequate inspectors, government support for alternative energy sources including tax incentives, investments and penalties for using oil, tax the rich A LOT, small army, end the wars, good schools for everyone, free education for all citizens up to 4 years of college, strong laws supporting women in jobs, end to Nafta… ohh I could go on and on.
Anyway, I’m not giving up on Hillary for president until, well, I think until the sad day she passes on, hopefully more than 40 years from now. I’m keeping my buttons, shirts and whatnot and will trot them out every election, and I don’t even live in NY!
epp I got a comment in moderation. I didn’t say the r word, but I did say nafta? ohh and I said Kucinich.
Halp, I’s stuck in moderation.
you know, I think this whole 1st, 2nd and 3rd generation feminism crap is some b*llsh*t to divide women generationally.
as far as I’ve been able to tell through research, the whole thing was invented by Rebecca Walker, who was and is feuding with her mom, author Alice Walker.
I’m sorry about their personal situation, but it should not be allowed to affect relationships and solidarity among women. my feeling is that the Obama campaign has exploited a divide which shouldn’t even exist to turn daughters against mothers, or force mothers to submit to their daughters much less imformed opinions.
the Walkers need to take their feud private. it’s probably too late for that now, the bots have bought it hook, line and sinker.
am I wrong? I see feminism as an ongoing struggle, not a cause that can be placed in three neat little boxes.
I agree Kiki, because then we get to ‘post-feminism’ which doesn’t even exist, to my way of thinking. Might as well call it ‘going back to the old days ism’.
yeah, what does post-feminism even mean?
You know when I knew that sexism was alive and well? When young girls started wearing their jeans so law on their hips that you could almost see their pubic hair. That fashion trend was pretty much the death knell of feminism from a social point of view.
Obama tells women to <a ref”http://donedems.com/2008/06/20/obama-to-women-get-over-it/”.”get over it”
Oops.
Here’s the link to the story
http://donedems.com/2008/06/20/obama-to-women-get-over-it/
i saw Susan’s post on NQ … i happened to be on FDL when that conversation went down. 1 month ago i was getting my head chopped off for questioning Obambi on anything … i was blogging at my own site at the same time … you should have read the antiObambi comments … I listed a group of them on my blog … I was blown away. If I’d have said ANY thing like that a month ago they’d have banned me from the site…
dakinikat-
Hopium, heh. Maybe a 12 step program will help them recover from the obama addiction, or at least give them something to ponder whle they’re under the bus!
here’s my blog of the adventure:
http://dakiniland.wordpress.com/
here’s the actual conversation:
http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/06/20/obama-replied/
I only got called a republican once I started asking them how they knew they could rely on Obama’s promises over McCain … you’ll see it WAY at the end
the first step is admitting you’re under the bus….and that is going to be the hardest step for many
Post-feminism? I think it means different things to different people. To me it’s tripe. It’s an argument against using feminism in a word because it implies exclusivity towards things female. But that’s coming from an aracheological theory point of view.
I don’t think we are even into feminism, or humanism if you will, yet. People are still judged on their gonads, or lack of, and how they use them.
Hillary’s right. Everyone’s boat rises if we lift up all people; women, people of color, gays, children, working class men, everyone… I wish people would get that, but post-feminism seems to argue against it to me.
kiki –
Moms good but and dont let this get caught in the filter-thinks Sen Obama is the wrong man for the job….I told her he’s the wrong woman for the job too….poor mom she is not going to come home to Obama.
Hes is one of those pesky white women-who raized 5 kids on her own because dad was always at sea. She is a patriot to loves america. Liberal Republican-the party left her with John Kerry.
I love her she’s my mom she loved my Douglas too spent days in the hospital with us she was there for me when he entered into eternity. I can overlook the R on her voters registration card she has a good soul.
fuzzybeargville
hee hee! html is not my friend tonight. 🙂
I kind of like the comments about feminism. I think it has been an important part of HRC’s campaign but rarely (I miss stuff here a lot) discussed here. I have not really had much exposure to the opions of, what some would consider, 2nd wave feminist.
Kiki, in my experience the terms are mostly academic (more or less) concepts used for for a couple reasons. Perhaps it is for the most part due to large periods of latency separating the “waves.” And I guess the second is, imagined or real, the differences in ideas/focus of the different waves… but yeah, it IS an ongoing struggle for sure.
Wasn’t it John Lennon who said “Woman is the nigger of the world.”
As a black woman, I can vouch for that statement. I experience much more sexism than racism. And when I protest against sexism, I am chastised and looked down upon. But people will bend over backwards to empathize with my claims of racism.
fuzzybear, that is so sweet! Your mom sounds lovely. So sorry to hear about your partner. 😦
One thing I’ve learned from this primary: Party affiliation means nothing. You can only judge a politico on his/her actions.
sorry she is one of those pesky white women…
fuzzybear
I tried so oposition prep on her pretended I was an Obamabot to see how it would work on her…she didnt buy it at all. said she new I could act but that I was a total failure at being an obamabot-
She doesnot think that the bots are as fanatical as I portrayed….I get no tony or oscar for that performance.
Mom does not spend much time online…
fuzzybeargville
iamonly1, Shirley Chisholm said much the same thing. She was the first woman to run for president? Or maybe the first in ‘modern’ times? not sure. If I had been old enough, I’d have voted for her, but I was only 10 😦
Ahh yes, wikipedia says she was the first majority party candidate woman to run for president AND the first black woman elected to congress.
I think its funny how trolls come here and then complain about being spammed. I guess that they don’t see the irony. They shut us out and them cry about free speech. And has anybody noticed the infestation of foreign trolls? are they outsourcing now to save cash for the convention?
I’ve read that many men don’t “get it” re: sexism til their newly-graduated-from-college daughters start job hunting. Obama will “get it” a few years from now.
WSJ reports (via Hillbuzz) Obama raised 22 million in May. I wonder how much the Clinton donors will help him out.
Yea, I don’t get the foreign trolls thing.
Germany, Columbia, hmmmmmmm. I am interested, very interested, in overseas elections, but I don’t bother to frequent boards supporting the potential nominees of other countries.
Really trolls from columbia Uribe and Bush are tight must be those chavez supported terrorist in columbia that are picking up some extra cash to by guns with by trolling for Obama.
Fuzzybeargville
night all! pleasant dreams of Hillary trouncing Obama at the Convention! 🙂
dakinkat – liked your blog! The video woke my husband up. He said, “B-52’s?”
“the first step is admitting you’re under the bus….and that is going to be the hardest step for many”
I’m sort of falling in love with Obama, because I’ve never seen anybody with so little political sense. The only thing he has going for him is but but but MCCAIN, so what does he do in the same week McCain condemns the SC decision? Well, he rushes to out McCain McCain and give Bush a great big wet kiss. He’s throwing his one advantage under the bus. And let’s see, he’s been shedding voters like crazy, so what does he do to the one group where he has significant support? Oh yeah, he does everything he can to discourage the beyond astronomical turnout he’s going to need by giving them a gratuitous tongue lashing that’s not going to bring him one vote in return.
It’s like watching a train wreck. Maybe it’s a bet?
well fuzzy needs sleep-hope the trolls dont take over here when I am off I enjoy watching their little spirits being crushed by our superior intellect.
Obama raised only $22 million in May-way down from the $ 55 million in March? He must be pooping bricks over his reversal of fortune-
Now he has to meet the DNC Payroll too with less cash…
well sweet dreams everyone….I will dream of living in President Hillary Clintons america whe there is no FISA, every one has healthcare, and everyone has the abillity to live up to their Creator/God/Goddess given potential
Fuzzybeargville
Sharon, he will never get it because he’s a millionaire and his daughters will have every advantage, whether he”s elected or not.
they may appreciate that they have advantages though….I’m not about to discount the little girls – I think his kids are cute and I don’t believe in bad-mouthing kids of politicians.
thx, jmac … i love the b52s … and you’re living in your own private idaho … just sorta made sense for a thread about the Oberg
As the saying goes, I’ll be a post-feminist in post-patriarchy.
Until then…
“the first step is admitting you’re under the bus….and that is going to be the hardest step for many”
Yup … that would explain the flurry of confused posters I saw today on HuffPoop, DailyKampf and FDL …
they were just coming to terms with being under the bus like the rest of us
Ok I’ve been reading this stuff on Obama’s birth certificate, and I really don’t understand what is going on. First, why would the campaign give it to the Cheetos to publish. Second, after looking at it it does look like a fake. Is it that hard to get a copy of his birth certificate? Don t they keep the original one on the records room in HI and a copy can be sent to whomever asks for it?
Wow!
What a petulant little punk the DNC has selected as the Dem nominee! Have you guys seen this?
I know I’m not a woman, but do we, the people who were not complicit in this farce put up with this jackass?
What an arrogant little prick!
yeah, under-the-bus denial…. tomorrow it will be
Hello, my name is Cheetoh,
Hello Cheetoh,
and I’ve been Under the Bus for 1 day now
little do they know they’ve been under the bus for some time now. they only realized it 1 day ago
Coupla points.
Antidote to hopium – realitium.
Obama’s money – interesting dynamic, huh?
Instead of graciously helping HRC retire her debt, he has to go to her, hat in hand, because his own fundraising is down.
Last, the end of the “get over it” article says he started griping about how HE was treated in the primaries by Clinton and her supporters.
Awwwwwwwww…
His Own Private Idaho – kind of like Maureen Dowd saying Dubya lives in a thermos.
And Dubya won TWICE. TWICE! So I won’t be at all surprised if empty suit wins.
MABlue, this was touched upon above. those of us who are women decided we would gratefully take that “moment” and then submit. and “get over it”…….NOT!!!
I decided, when I went to college, to be a nuclear engineer. To that goal I took engineering and physics classes. My second year, I was in an advanced calculus class. I loved math, loved calculus and derivations and all of that. I was a very eager student.
I was also, of course, young, somewhat attractive, and built like marilyn monroe. LIttle waist, big boobs, big hips, etc. Heh, this was 25 years ago!
So the professor, a man, asks a question. My hand shoots up to answer. Very eager I was. And I’m wearing a sweater. Probably tight, I dunno, I never noticed. My professor says, in front of the whole class, ‘Don’t thrust your breasts at me!’.
The men laughed and mocked me. The women gave me sympathetic looks. I was humiliated. Just humiliated. I finished my degree, but never had heart for it, I’d have to be working around guys like that. I guess I’m not as brave as Hillary. Once I graduated I changed my focus and went to graduate school in Archaeology. I never, ever GOT OVER IT.
I won’t get over HIllary’s defeat either. It ain’t about her anymore. It’s about the disgusting misogyny and sexism inherent in our system. BZero can shove it.
Ha ha. $$ problems. So that does explain hauling Gore out. I got an email from Gore the day he endorsed. Sent him a short note signed PUMA.
Does anyone know if Samantha Power is still involved in his campaign. She resigned right?
“I won’t get over HIllary’s defeat either. It ain’t about her anymore. It’s about the disgusting misogyny and sexism inherent in our system.”
And the hate. I can’t get over the hate from the MSM and the party. Air America was vicious. And Huffington Post. Hillary really did an amazing job – well, she DID win, considering what she was up against.
Samantha’s supposedly no longer a part of the campaign.
Oh, and Sima, your professor had big problems – I hope he got help.
Sima:
(((Sima))) the professor was an asshole, and not untypical. I’m sorry your future was altered by his careless disregard for your feelings.
That was “an authority,” not “and authority.”
MABlue, he’s great, isn’t he? I liked the part where he whined that running against McCain is going to take a lot of time. Poor Barack.
I just have to repost BostonBoomer’s post, b/c it’s so good:
We tend to focus on Obama here, and rightly so. But let’s not forget that Hillary got the election taken from her by more than one person. Here’s a great piece on Peggy Noonan, whose ongoing barrage of hit pieces made the Obama cultists love her. Of course, now she’s full steam ahead for McCain–poetic justice?
http://wwd.com/issue/article/125874?page=0
jmac–the laws in TX changed sometime in 1973. (I think it was in September.) Texas ratified the national ERA amendment in 1972 and the voters approved adding an ERA amendment to the state constitution in November of 1972. I remember well, because I was a married college student. Before the ERA, my grade reports were mailed to my husband, not me.
Before the TX ERA passed, women were literally no more than children in the eyes of the law. A married woman could not enter into a contract without her husband’s permission. On the other hand, a married man could buy and sell property–even the primary residence (homestead)–without his wife’s permission, even if he had abandoned (left) the homestead. A man could walk out on his wife and family, AND legally sell the house right out from under them.
The misogyny I’ve seen in the past few months has reawakened the feminism I had when I first reached adulthood and realized I still didn’t have any rights. As Kiki said, it is an ongoing struggle–and we’re nowhere near true equality yet. Now I’m fighting not just for me, but for my daughters.
Southern expression for a woman – barefoot, pregnant and on the outskirts of town. I heard that a lot growing up in Louisiana.
And “I made an honest woman out of her”. That one made me scream everytime I heard it.
okay, i couldn’t stand it ….
just wrote a blog page to help those with UNDER THE BUS DENIAL.
http://dakiniland.wordpress.com/
I’ve been struggling to understand why the majority of the women taht have become prime-ministers or presidents of western countries are from right wing parties. am I missing something? why is this?
anybody knows of a database of women politicians for me to test this hypothesis?
Riverdaughter:
Please let us know what’s gong on with planning a protest in Denver. Is it going to happen? What hotel should we book?
Where do we meet? Logistically speaking–we need to get our S>>T together and spring forth from the net and onto the streets of Denver…is our Puma movement real and will it spill out of the net and onto the streets?
josgirl, I can’t believe Obama, but damn, watson is brave for standing up to him. Watch, she’ll be the first person primaried.
Here’s the rest of the ABC piece: “Obama then said two sources at the meeting said that he’d held his tongue many times during the campaign against Clinton in the interest of party unity and sensitivity. Clinton and her allies had suggested he was a Muslim, had said he wasn’t qualified to be president. According to the sources, Obama suggested he bit his tongue every time. He could be asking for an apology, he could be asking for the Clintons to reconcile with him, but he chose to rise above it.”
Um…yeah. He could be asking for an apology after making up even worse things she didn’t do. What a brave little liar, I mean soldier.
I guess I was pretty sheltered growing up as a kid, and I benefitted greatly from the struggles and successes of women like stxabuela. My father never, ever, put anything on me like ‘you can’t do that because you are a girl’. My mother never did it either, and both of them shielded me from it, and defended me from it, when others tried. College was a shock in that way.
Now I want to pass on that innocence until anyone different feels it and is never mocked for their differences. Tilting at windmills I guess.
Heh, ‘made an honest woman out of her’. What a crock of crap. The woman should have replied, ‘You are lucky I let you entrap me!’.
I just put up a new post on the CBC meeting. I see you guys have been discussing it.
Jonas8: Re: rightwing women. I think there are many possibilities. One is that many of these women are anti-feminism. That doesn’t mean they didn’t benefit from it, but they repudiate it. Thatcher famously said something like she got where she was because of herself, not because of any special laws favoring women. Maybe she’s right (I still want to dance on her grave, I lived in England during much of the Thatcher years…).
Also, rightwing men won’t stand for it. Amongst themselves, I’m sure they all chuckle about the little women, pat them on their heads, suggest auxiliary meetings for them. But in public, no way. You do not diss one of their women.
Some of our democratic leaders, instead of standing firm that way, say, ‘Ohh, maybe you have a point…’ to anyone attacking a democrat for being a woman.
I do think it more likely the first woman president of the USA will be a Republican. I hate that, but it’s probably true. I think any woman the Dems put up will be torn to shreds until the Dems learn to deal with their own misogyny and distrust, and until they learn to accept that women do, yes indeed, change how the game is played, at least a bit.
I’m sure Samantha Power is still advising Obama. She just can’t be paid directly for it. But he’ll find a way to reward her.
Sima,
It could still be Hillary. I’m not giving up hope.
bostonboomer, 9:52 pm Said:
“Bwaaaahahahahahahah!
I just took a quick trip over to the Cheeto. They are sooooo disillusioned over there. They are crying in their beer. ”
I’ll go give your comment a quick hug over there – like old times, eh!
BB, I sure hope so! I’m still not convinced it’s over, and even if it is for now, I’m willing to work for 2012. I think it would be wonderful for our country, in many ways, if Hillary wins.
What really makes me so mad about the Blogger Boyz suddenly being upset with Obama about FISA is the pass they’ve given him on everything else. And there is some pretty awful stuff in the “everything else.” They didn’t care about his race baiting and outright racism against certain voters. They didn’t care about all the sexism. They didn’t care about the clowns he runs with – Wright, Ayres, Rezko. They didn’t care where he got his money – in fact they didn’t even bother to look. They didn’t care that he praised Republicans and dissed Democrats. They didn’t care when he threw gays under the bus. And they’re upset about FISA? What a bunch of narcissistic little creeps!
CD,
They’ll get over the FISA betrayal too. And the ones who can’t get over it will be purged.
Dotcommodity,
Thanks for reccing my comment. I can’t belief “RFKLives” didn’t respond. But I got 2 recs!
Just went over to Huffpoop to see how the ravings of the transpolitical Arianna were going. They are scolding BZero, but one poster actually said:
This is why he needs to run now not 8 years from now. He would have to vote on lots of bills and take positions where the issues are difficult to explain.
I actually wonder why they can’t see how idiotic such a statement is. It’s like saying, “I’ll gladly buy a lemon from a new used car salesman, but not one who has been selling lemons for 8 years.”
dakinikat,
thank you for the links about “under the bus denial” and hopium. i really like your blog.
sassysenora,
I apologize for not being here last night when you provided the links to Obama’s vote.Thank you!!
Of interest perhaps, with a small reference at the end found at :
http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/October-2004/First-Lady-in-Waiting/
Asked what political wife she admires, she cites Hillary Rodham Clinton. “She is smart and gracious and everything she appears to be in public-someone who’s managed to raise what appears to be a solid, grounded child.”
Under the bus goes some liberal activists along with Sens. Christopher Dodd (D-Conn.), Russ Feingold (D-Wisc.) and Sen. Patrick Leahy (D-Vt.). Sure thinks alot of his friends that supported him in the primaries. He isn’t in this race for the liberals he has another cause that he has not said and will throw the ones under the bus when he is finished getting all he wants from them!
——————————————————————————–
(The Washington Post)
Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) today announced his support for a sweeping intelligence surveillance law that has been heavily denounced by the liberal activists who have fueled the financial engines of his presidential campaign.
In his most substantive break with the Democratic Party’s base since becoming the presumptive nominee, Obama declared he will support the bill when it comes to a Senate vote, likely next week, despite misgivings about legal provisions for telecommunications corporations that cooperated with the Bush administration’s warrantless surveillance program of suspected terrorists.
This marks something of a reversal of Obama’s position from an earlier version of the bill, which was approved by the Senate Feb. 12, when Obama was locked in a fight for the Democratic nomination with Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.).
Obama missed the February vote on that FISA bill as he campaigned in the “Potomac Primaries,” but issued a statement that day declaring “I am proud to stand with Senator Dodd, Senator Feingold and a grassroots movement of Americans who are refusing to let President Bush put protections for special interests ahead of our security and our liberty.”
Sens. Christopher Dodd (D-Conn.) and Russ Feingold (D-Wisc.) continue to oppose the new legislation, as does Sen. Patrick Leahy (D-Vt.). All Obama backers in the primary
Beverly,
You’re all over the place today, aren’t you? Gee, thanks for the history lesson. The relevance of it escapes me though. This blog does not support John McCain or Barack Obama.
I’m afraid we can’t allow you to reproduce entire articles. It’s against the copyright laws. Please don’t do it again, or you will be banned.
Bostonboomer:
They really like to play in the old threads, don’t they?
Yeah, it’s funny to catch them at it. LOL. Beverly has been here before. She seems like a very nice woman, and I can’t figure out why she’s still supporting Obama now that he’s basically thrown the entire AA community under the bus.
The obamabots/ PINO “big bloggers” merely hold proxy votes for obama. Obama can throw FISA dirt in their collective faces and all they can say is “thank you sir may I please have another.”. You see the obamabots/PINOs have called us who chose to vote the way we want and vote for mccain as sore losers and deadenders. Taylor Marsh went so far as to post a picture of an old woman cutting off her nose to spite her face-how quaint. Obama and his FISA vote was a strongly worded SHUT THE FU** UP and a WHATCHA GONNA DO ABOUT IT..HUH to the obamabots/PINO because the only way you can vote is for me. Since I own my vote outright (on 6/18 i changed to an independent) obama was not talking to me. It is called having “options.”
I am proudly voting for Mccain because I own my vote and I am acting like it.
#
“stillife, on June 20th, 2008 at 10:01 pm Said:
dwwenz, is this the article you’re referring to? Somebody posted this excerpt in my LJ community today:
“.it does not belittle the oppressions of gender to suggest that in America the oppressions of race have cut deeper. Clinton’s supporters would sometimes note that the Constitution did not extend the vote to women until half a century after it extended it to men of color. But there is no gender equivalent of the nightmare of disenfranchisement, lynching, apartheid, and peonage that followed Reconstruction, to say nothing of “the bondsman’s two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil” that preceded it. Nor has any feminist leader shared the fate of Medgar Evers, Martin Luther King, Jr. and Malcom X. “
I had to comment on this quote. For heavens’ sakes how CAN they be so BLIND!! Women are raped, beaten and murdered in their own homes and I don’t see anybody making much of a fuss over it. The rates of domestic violence are staggering…nobody is marching around protesting, there IS no uprising. We don’t HAVE a Malcom X because it’s utterly ignored for the most part. This says nothing of the blatant sexism women face every day. It’s got to the point that younger women are so submerged in it that it’s easier to just go along to get along…to not be seen as a “feminist” horror of horrors. We cannot even speak UP without being slandered for doing so.
This says nothing of the FACT that women are set on fire, thrown into ditches as babies or simply abandoned just for being girls in other countries…..my son is in China right now…women are worth ZERO compared to males there…and they are killed with impunity all around the world while we sit and act as if this is “sad” but, not an epidemic, not worthy of moveon and the like standing up at all. No voice much. Not enough funding…it’s simply not taken as important enough.
And for every woman I work with at the shelter that this meant something deeply important to, who had to sit and watch the MSM treat it as nothing, not significant, not “historic” enough….there are millions more treated as insignificant.
And do I believe Obama gives a rats ass about this?? NO! I don’t and many of his supporters do not either. They see none of this as worthy of enough attention.
It was Hillary Clinton who stood up to her own country and the Chinese and declared “Women’s rights ARE Human rights” in 1995 and just look how much has changed since then *sarcasm*
How dare this person belittle the suffering women go through in this world by comparing it and saying it’ s not “as” significant. It’s not a suffering contest for gods sakes!! It’s about time we had a voice. Hillary was and is that voice and not “just” for women.
I’m a little weary of some frat boy who is twenty years old telling me that because Obama has the same policies *he stole them from Hillary for the most part* that it’ s not really important what Hillary’s run meant.
I must question these people. If her policies are the same, and she has better qualifications to actually get those policies in place, I can only conclude you did not vote for her because you don’t like her damned pantsuits.
I’m tired of women paving the way, the way she did for Obama, the way Alice Palmer did for Obama. It’s past time these issues and the significance of our vote is taken seriously.
As one whose 13 year old daughter is just finishing up a year of cancer treatment, the LAST thing I want is universal, government-controlled health care. My daughter received the best treatment available in modern medicine and all because I CHOSE to spend a considerable amount of my take home pay on health insurance (as a baseline for my comment, I make little enough that I pay no income taxes). I am angered at the greed and laziness that will punish those of us who are diligent in the care of our families by taking from us the best medical system in the world to substitute it with mediocre health care for everyone. If you believe this is not the case, you are making decisions based upon emotions, not facts. Check the lack of research, the actual costs to the economy, and the lack of/delays in care that characterizes every socialist health care system. You thought HMO’s were bad, wait till you belong to the only one available–NO COMPETITION. Many in this country need to get your priorities straight. Spend your money on health care FIRST, not car payments, furniture, a bigger house than you need, bundles of clothing, cell phones, big screen televisions, etc., etc. Don’t expect my daughter to suffer because of your greed. And don’t expect me to pay for your laziness. Be an adult. I will not vote for Barak, nor would I have voted for Hillary, FOR THIS REASON ALONE.
Tim: I approved your comment even though I disagree with it strongly. Jerome a Paris who is a fairly well known Kossack documented his experience with the French health care system for his 5 year old daughter who has a malignant brain tumor and her treatment was nothing less than exemplary at very little out of pocket expense to him. For myself, I grew up a military brat and government provided health care was all I knew. Everything was provided at the on-base dispensary, a sort of clinic and E-room. Here too, the care that was provided by military doctors and corpsmen was very good. Indeed, it saved my sister’s life on more than one occasion as she was a chronic asthmatic with severe reactions to just about everything.
So, I do not believe that good care cannot be delivered by the government since we have examples of it. But I *do* know that some people work very hard for a living, frequently at multiple jobs, for very little pay and a sudden or devastating illness can put them into a financial hole they can never escape and all because they can’t afford insurance. It is especially difficult for people with pre-existing conditions who can’t even get accepted to a plan. For young single women, the monthly cost of an insurance policy will frequently exceed their salary. It has nothing to do with how hard you work or how much you spend for other things. The system is designed to exclude the sickest leaving the healthy and insured to pick up the tab for people who are simply human and need treatment.
Yes, there are lazy people in the world but in my experience, you are just as likely to find them among the wealthy as the poor. The only difference is that the lazy well heeled do not suffer the same sneering derision as the well deserving poor and the only thing that separates the two is money. Money will make even the stupidest, tasteless, laziest Paris Hilton worthy of the best treatment on earth, while a hard working person in the inner city gets treated like vagrant looking for a handout. There’s something wrong with that.
For those who wish to stay together in a long term commitment to the ideals and rinciples that Hillary Clinton has spent a lifetime promoting, http://Together4Us.com offers access for activists, funders, students, policy-makers and ordinary people to come together in support of each other and their goals for America. Please come to our website and join, use the code below to put our linked logo on your website and distribute our message and this code to all your network. Spread the word. We will be happy to put up a reciprocal link, your own co-branded web page on our site, or your own blog.
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