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Open Thread

We’re over 300 comments on the last one.

We DON’T DO Larry Sinclair here at The Confluence … but anyone who caught the news of his press conference today – and it’s aftermath – may wish to bask in the hilarity (including Sinclair’s arrest by Delaware authorities and his defrocked attorney wearing a kilt to accommodate his amply genitals).

In politics, there’s a tendency to bite on every bad thing anyone suggests about the opponent. There’s an object lesson here. (See also Politico’s extraordinary rendition of LS’s criminal record.)

115 Responses

  1. It must be the rainy season when all the fools come out of the woodwork.

  2. I wouldn’t do Larry either. Not my type. 😉

  3. well, we were all complaining of ennui……..

  4. I saw that story, and it does read like a Katherine Dunn story, just chock full of freaks with weird mishaps.

    That said, and since this is an open thread, I’ve posted two more parts of the Specter of Roe v Wade series over at my blog, Peacocks and Lilies. The first two parts also got front paged at Alegre’s new community site, Alegre’s Corner.

  5. annabelle: I read them. Great writing.

  6. RonK:

    Thank you for posting Mr. Nobody’s letter. I actually had goose bumps reading it. It was quite moving, especially considering that he is one one my peeps, and I now how hard it is for every black man who doesn’t support Obama.

  7. kiki: lol

  8. After all the time I’ve spent following political blogs I thought.. sure, clearly people on all sides will push the worst accusations they can with little regard for facts or evidence or connection to reality.. But I also thought that if said accusations reached a certain level of absurdity, it wouldn’t happen? Well, I hope the Weekly World News and AM Coast to Coast sent correspondents.
    ———-

    On another topic, I saw a couple Conflucians got (as did I) an email from ActBlue apparently sent in error that thanks the recipient for setting up a fundraising page for Barack Obama. What is this about? I mean.. Edwards ran into some controversy over using ActBlue to raise funds.. but then, I can’t keep track of where Obama stands on which lobbyists and PACs and 527s and outside organizations are OK with him and which are subjected to some pledge he’s made, which he then might/might not bother to walk back.

  9. MAB, not to mention every black woman who doesn’t support Obama

    not disagreeing with you at all……………..

  10. Ah, so he reserved a room himself at the National Press Club? Now that’s the most interesting fact about the whole sordid story. I had no idea that anyone could reserve a room there. Sort of like a library, it seems.

  11. I seem to have a comment in moderation.. Not sure why on that..

  12. Not having Hillary is like me trading in my Jimmy Choo’s for a pair of Thom McCann’s.

  13. from last thread since you may have missed it sorry…I am slow:

    Hey sorry, should have been in bed but just got an e intro with will bower hes a good guy and he makes the case that jsnd.com is a huge umbrella org and member blogs and organizations are all persuing their own responce to ensure obama does not walk of with the dem nomination unchallenged (isn’t this what we are all fighting for) …and his support for mccain does not represent anything but a personal choice, which he will only excersize if hillary does become our nominee. (something again we have in common) .

    I am sure the guy has been living on adrenaline and caffine for the last 7 days so can we cut him some slack. The O-bots would love to see us self distruct on petty infighting. (thats what were trying to get the o-bots and DNC to do)

    Riverdaughter dont you think we need to cut the who gets credit for this movement stuff…In a fight for our freedoms Ego should be the first thing out the window.

    love again to you all
    fuzzybeargville

  14. The guy in the kilt sounds interesting. Especially the reason he offered why he was wearing it.

  15. I’ve said it many times,I don’t care about their sex lives / just do your jobs”!
    “2” things & then GOOD NITE!!
    1-You all have to the the feature video on the Clintons4mccain site. There is the “mentor type guy” from when Obama was age 10: SHOCKING!!There’s this “new player” Davi Marshall Franks.
    2-I don’t care about LS / Just tell BO “we” need & deserve for him to stop the :SPEECH-THING”!

  16. I saw corrente officially is “better than us” I guess that’s what happens after you drink the cool-aid. Seriously, it really is a “cool-kid” syndrome. Very disturbing. oh well, they may grow up one day. What I find most insulting is the big complaint is that the discussions going on in this blog are somehow beneath them. Well you know what smart guy? I have an idea, how bout writing something original instead of doing the “deconstruction” thing. it’s so first year grad school guys…..

  17. Larry Sinclair-next well will have the seven dwarfs, tinkerbell and bugs bunny paraded out saying Obama molested them too-this guy is a joke even if it were true its self hateful to gay bait Sen Obama-conduct unbecoming a member of the rebel alliance…

    well love and good night

    You are all 100 kinds of wonderful to me

    Fuzzybeargville

  18. Thanks for the feedback, Pat. I appreciate it. 🙂

  19. annabellep — Dear Ms. Dunn summarized the essence of politics when she wrote “People have a way of accepting horseshit”. (The context, of course, well, everybody should just go read Geek Love.)

  20. (raising hand) I read Geek Love! That was the year they only published books by people named Catharine.

  21. No doubt, Ron. Wow, I can’t believe someone even knows who she is. I thought I was the only who loved Geek Love and read it with secret glee every couple of years. Hehe.

  22. I read Geek Love years ago. Weird.

  23. gary — I have no idea what you’re talking about re corrente!?!

  24. oops guy in kilt? mmmm

    I missed that pic?

    to all you celmen out there….here the punch line do you remember the joke?

    Laddy I don’no where ye been last night but I sess you won first prize…

    really off to bed now

    Fuzzybeargville

    PS am bowling tomorrow with my friends “tjhe gay guys” say a prayer i bowl higher than the big O…let you know my score afterwards

  25. well, let’s raise the level of discussion……Pat, I had to google Jimmy Choo! I’ve worn Chuck Taylor high tops since I was a kid……I currently have 13 pairs. yeah, every so often I have to dress up, for a wedding or a funeral, and i wear earth shoes – my idea of dressy shoes! if I had to wear heels or anything with arch support I probably wouldn’t be able to walk.

    and I wonder why I’m not a wealthy high-powered executive….

  26. I watched Geek Love evolve over the years from notes to novel … that “horseshit” passage was an early anchor to the work as a whole.

  27. Michael, I have total faith you will beat O’s bowling score.

  28. What’s Geek Love? The title immediately throws me back to Gil&Sara on CSI. They were Geek Love. I know the name but not the book. Is it worth a read?

  29. Ron? You know Katherine Dunn?

  30. You watched it evolve…like, as in, you literally knew Dunn and read it before it was published and stuff? That was a great quote, btw.

  31. It’s a book by Katherine Dunn, and boy is it worth the read! I loved it, even though I’ve read it so much now, and I have so much training in writing that I know the ending is weak. That book is all about the ride, though.

  32. Another Dunn-ism: “Know your enemy, but don’t let your enemy know you … until you are prepared to be dangerous“.

  33. Yes, guys and gals, Annabellep is a great new blogger. Give her some love:

    peacocks and lilies

  34. Don’t read it while you’re going through a divorce though.

  35. LMAO@katiebird. I’m afraid to ask!

  36. Crap, forgot to say thanks for the free promo and the love, ghost2!

  37. regency: I found it weird but it is eclectic. Different. Imaginative. My favorite book ever is Grapes of Wrath. Have read it possible three to four times over the last 20 years. Could taste the dust it was so vivid.

  38. Per Will Bower, I saw him the other day & thought he made it clear that he was speaking only for himself re McCain.

    As for “McCain…tolerable…terribly naive..” Well, DC4Hillary, you may be very sincere but I’m a Hillary voter from KY leaning toward McCain, and I have been called a hell of a lot worse than naive this campaign!

  39. I think the fact that I’m contemplating a vote for McCain is something from a science fiction story. I KNOW I’m going against all wisdom, but I’m much more likely to stay home than vote Republican.

  40. We moved in some of the same wordy circles in Portland, many years back.

  41. I saw corrente officially is “better than us” I
    ————
    Wow, Corrente’s on her high horse – she must have eaten her arugula as she peered down her elitist nose. If we didn’t learn anything from Gore/Kerry, you would have thought we could learn that most Americans love America, mom, the flag and apple pie.

    Instead of embracing middle america and having a beer at the bar, we’ve selected a guy who has his first fundraiser at a colleague who stomped on the American flag at the ashes of 9/11.

    The uniter. The man who explained so carefully to a reporter why he chose not to wear a flag pin. Well, Corrente needs to take a gander at his chest. He’ll probably have it tatooed on by November.

  42. Annabellep, love your blog, and will give it some more attention this weekend. it’s bookmarked, and looks interesting 🙂

  43. That’s really interesting, Ron — I know authors and they don’t show notes and manuscripts to just anyone…

  44. The Corrente thing? Isn’t that just someone named “Mandos”? It doesn’t look like a total pile-on to me.

  45. Thanks kiki. Hope you like it. Leave a comment sometime if you feel like it.

    Wow, Ron, that’s pretty cool. And katiebird, they may not show manuscripts, but a lot of them will talk a storyline up with just about anyone. Heh.

  46. Katie….yeah. I have voted for a republican ONCE in my life, and that was only because I met him at a party two days before the election, and I (kinda drunkenly) promised, and he was a friend of a friend, and it was for sheriff, for goodness sakes. it’s hard to imagine crossing that bridge again.

    he won, and was an ok sheriff, I guess.

  47. Men in Kilts claiming to be well-endowed? So Braveheart finally becomes synonymous with some slimy 15 minutes of fame in D.C.? This whirling blend of images, i.e., bagpipes and film noir stool pigeons is stretching even my twisted imagination, a bit! But beware doubters — the tabloid entices simply because it’s forbidden fruit — albeit crass and lurid. We ain’t heard the last of this brazen blast.

  48. Heres the audio of Larry Sinclair Press Conference I dunno guys he sounds more creditable than Barack not knowing Wright was a racist or Rezko a crook
    here listen
    [audio src="http://hbeeinc.com/media/papatard_blows_himself_128_stero.mp3" /]

  49. Speaking of the flag pin, I found this hilarious – from Christopher Beam’s RUMORS THE OBAMA CAMPAIGN SHOULDN’T TRY TO CORRECT (Slate):

    Barack Obama wears a FLAG PIN at all times. Even in the shower.

    Barack Obama says the PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE every time he sees an American flag. He also ends every sentence by saying, “WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL.” Click here for video of Obama quietly mouthing the PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE in his sleep.

    A tape exists of Michelle Obama saying the PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE at a conference on PATRIOTISM.

    Every weekend, Barack and Michelle take their daughters HUNTING.

    Barack Obama is a PATRIOTIC AMERICAN. He has one HAND over his HEART at all times. He occasionally switches when one arm gets tired, which is almost never because he is STRONG.

    Barack Obama has the DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE tattooed on his stomach. It’s upside-down, so he can read it while doing sit-ups.

    There’s only one artist on Barack Obama’s iPod: FRANCIS SCOTT KEY.

    Barack Obama is a DEVOUT CHRISTIAN. His favorite book is the BIBLE, which he has memorized. His name means HE WHO LOVES JESUS in the ancient language of Aramaic. He is PROUD that Jesus was an American.

    Barack Obama goes to church every morning. He goes to church every afternoon. He goes to church every evening. He is IN CHURCH RIGHT NOW.

    Barack Obama’s new airplane includes a conference room, a kitchen, and a MEGACHURCH.

    Barack Obama’s skin is the color of AMERICAN SOIL.

    Barack Obama buys AMERICAN STUFF. He owns a FORD, a BASEBALL TEAM, and a COMPUTER HE BUILT HIMSELF FROM AMERICAN PARTS. He travels mostly by FORKLIFT.

    Barack Obama says that Americans cling to GUNS and RELIGION because they are AWESOME.

    Hat tip, Ben Smith at Politico.

  50. Re: the Corrente post, am I crazy, or was this the first campaign season where we started seeing a lot of blanket accusations, maybe witch hunts, of others based on what blogs they chose to read and post to? This seems to be a new trend? It just feels like something is moving in a different direction.. and that if there’s a blogosphere 2.0, it’s full of little tribes on little islands who are developing their own languages.

  51. I’m developing my own language, but it’s mostly from pretending my typos were intentional.

  52. katiebird – I have only voted ONCE for a Republican, and that was because David Dinkins was a terrible mayor. (I voted for Dinkins the first time.) Yes, friends, I voted for…Rudy Giuliani, New York’s Nosferatu!!! NooooOOOOoooo!!!

    Incidentally, I was positive that Giuliani wouldn’t make it through the primaries, but just in case it was Rudy v. Hillary, I thought it would be hilarious if Hillary used this campaign poster.

    🙂

  53. ronkseattle – LOL! That is hilarious! 🙂

  54. I’ve developed a new language too, full of typos, missing words, and new words in place of the old ones.

    The bottom line is some people blog and have an opinion and that opinion should be ignored.

    The egos on the blogosphere are large. And sometimes really snobby for no deserved reason. The same snobs actually complain about comments at their own sites

  55. I voted for Ross Perot. I was young, I was from Eastern Washington where we were immersed in right wing propaganda. At least I didn’t vote for Bush I. At least my vote was somewhat rebelious.

    I was a proponent of third party candidates even then.

  56. This video is a spoof of the recent Move On ad, and is pretty funny! (from Politico):

    http://video.236.com/services/link/bcpid1612722203/bctid1614766475

  57. Oh, garyinchapelhill – I guess Mandos didn’t like my post very much! Hope I didn’t get you in trouble.

    They really don’t get what I was saying. I’m not surprised. They have decided that pandering is bad, bad, bad, even when it is harmless. And they haven’t done the research to find out that Hillary’s bill was deemed NOT to violate the Constitution in any way.

    I wonder how they think politicians win support from their constituents? It couldn’t be by…PANDERING, now, could it?

    Jeez Louise.

    I wish I could post a comment over there, but they haven’t approved my credentials yet.

  58. “Wow, Corrente’s on her high horse – she must have eaten her arugula as she peered down her elitist nose.”

    Corrente is a good site, but sometimes they get a little full of themselves. I remember an O front pager there justified her vote on grounds of “Billary!!!! 22nd Amendment!!” and “you wouldn’t hire the plumber’s wife to fix your pipes!!!!” and, then, um, a couple days later another front pager warned Clinton supporters there that their general level of writing wasn’t up to Corrente standards. Ummmm….lol

  59. “Wow, Corrente’s on her high horse – she must have eaten her arugula as she peered down her elitist nose.”

    Corrente is a good site, but sometimes they get a little full of themselves. I remember an O front pager there justified her vote on grounds of “Bill%^^!!!! 22nd Amendment!!” and “you wouldn’t hire the plumber’s wife to fix your pipes!!!!” and, then, um, a couple days later another front pager warned Clinton supporters there that their general level of writing wasn’t up to Corrente standards. Ummmm….lol

  60. Seriously – I thought Mandos’ post was fairly incoherent, personally. 😉

  61. madamab: I agree. I couldn’t get through Mandos post. And BTW, I didn’t see a post anywhere on the site about Obama’s NAFTA big lie. Talk about pander.

    As I’ve said, a few of the posters there are full of themselves. Full. of. themselves.

  62. To be honest, madamab, I haven’t visited much since the post where women who objected to being called sweetie were accused of putting O’s life in danger. 🙂

  63. Gee, if he was rattling on about Hillary, I wonder if 60 MInutes would give him an interview. I’m not sure how he is anymore credible than either Gennifer Flowers (who couldn’t list a single date or point of rendezvous) or Kathering Willey who had to be re-immunized because she lied so much.

    I have heard from someone who works at the LA Times that the LA Times has a story about an affair between Obama and a campaign staffer and Obama and a student.

    The whole Sinclair thing strikes me as Rovian. There’s something here, though I doubt it has to do with Larry and Obama having sex. Something is lurking in his past.

  64. Seriously – Wow! That’s some pretty bizarre contortionism there! Guess I missed that…LOL!

    Lori – Do you think Obama has a, dare I say it, Bill Clinton-like problem? Obama is intelligent and handsome, and many women find him very charming. He could have a weakness for the sweeties – I mean, ladies…

  65. Yes, Larry Sinclair was a criminal many years ago, but not every word out of a criminal’s mouth is a lie. The way to find out is to verify the information. He presented some information in his press conference and challenged the media to do their job in vetting Mr. Obama and verifying the information he presented. Isn’t it time for investigative journalists and members of the MSM to do their job? Isn’t that what we want them to do about Obama?

  66. And yes, he admitted that he has terminal brain cancer too, verified by the Chicago Tribune. This press conference could essentially be his last testament about the matter.

  67. ghost2 .. I love it .. LoL . .Thank you ..

  68. Joe – My mom had brain cancer, and it made her completely delusional. She thought the nurse was trying to kill her.

    Just sayin’…otherwise, you are on point. The story hardly seems credible, yet it is getting some attention. So why doesn’t the media debunk it thoroughly?

  69. I don’t recall seeing Mandos or whatever posting in quite some over there. Maybe it was a bad day for ’em.

    They do seem to take themselves a bit seriously (some of them). I enjoy Lambert’s posts even though I think he’s gonna have some regrets over supporting (however reluctantly) Obama.

    I believe it was Chicago Dyke who made the comments (in a long tirade) about the lack of quality in some of the writers and a few of the regulars properly spanked her for it.

  70. It depends on what type of brain cancer and what parts of the brain are being affected. Not everyone becomes delusional or incapacitated. Just look at Ted Kennedy.

  71. You are right Joe…just another factor to add to the bizarre mix that is the Larry Sinclair story…

  72. madamb,

    Well, I’m not the psychologist around here, but a lot of narcissists are kinda asexual and chose their partners for reasons other than desire. That’s how Obama strikes me.

    But something is going on – this guy has gotten way too far to have done so on his own. Think of all the help Gennifer Flowers and Paula Jones received in order to get their tales in front of the press. Why would this be any different?

  73. Lori – I see what you’re saying…I’d bet on Roger Stone, personally. He seems to be the go-to guy for Democratic takedowns.

    Good night everyone!

  74. Re: Sinclair —

    Somebody fronted him the cash to rent the room at the National Press Club. He sure didn’t come up with it on his own, as the fee was several thousand dollars and he claims to be flat broke.

    Stone is a great bet for Sinclair’s sugar daddy, but I’m sure that there are any number of well-heeled repugs who would have been eager to foot the bill.

  75. As a follow up to Madamab’s post re why Democrats vote, I think the following gives a very good synopsis of why many of us will this year not vote or vote for McCain.

    The Democratic Party as we knew it is gone, hi-jacked! To stay in it, or vote for it, would only amount to enabling what I see as a power mad rush to destruction.

    The far-left is now in charge, owns the party, and currently seem to feel very empowered. I feel they are in for a rude awakening.

    The follwing concerning a “warning”, points out why the far-left is now out on a limb determined to try to save themselves by further using caring, good-hearted, well-meaning, yet mis-led , AAs and some women as support.

    They miscalculated, even though warned, and now are set for another loss, the third in a row. They insulted, ignored, and denied us, telling us to leave. We have.

    Harold Ford and the DLC sounded the warning more than 10 months ago. They were ignored, along with us.The DNC never had any outcome in mind other than by hook or crook anointing their “owned” candidate Obama.

    From http://nobho.blogspot.com/: Democratic Leadership Council Chairman Harold Ford has a prophetic post dated August 7, 2007 about the danger of the Democratic Party being influenced by the far left liberals of the party:

    The Washington Post | Opinion | August 7, 2007
    Our Chance to Capture the Center
    By Gov. Martin O’Malley and Harold Ford, Jr.

    With President Bush and the Republican Party on the rocks, many Democrats think the 2008 election will be, to borrow a favorite GOP phrase, a cakewalk. Some liberals are so confident about Democratic prospects that they contend the centrism that vaulted Democrats to victory in the 1990s no longer matters.

    The temptation to ignore the vital center is nothing new. Every four years, in the heat of the nominating process, liberals and conservatives alike dream of a world in which swing voters don’t exist. Some on the left would love to pretend that groups such as the Democratic Leadership Council, the party’s leading centrist voice, aren’t needed anymore.

    But for Democrats, taking the center for granted next year would be a greater mistake than ever before.

    http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=110&subid=65&contentid=254410.

    Obama apologists say “if you think it is broken, stay in, vote for Obama, fix it from the inside, etc.

    Not me!

    The DLC, (ie Harold Ford and others), has not had an impact from the inside, this cycle, though they have tried as the above “warning” indicates. I have no reason to believe that we humble, no-longer-wanted members can either.

    I really no longer care to try!

  76. Lori, on June 19th, 2008 at 1:58 am Said:

    madamb,

    Well, I’m not the psychologist around here, but a lot of narcissists are kinda asexual and chose their partners for reasons other than desire. That’s how Obama strikes me.

    Lori,

    I’m not a psychologist, but I write about them for film and TV. I think it’s strange that no women from Obama’s past have appeared on the scene. He didn’t get married until he was 30. I’m just sayin’…

    My new post: Michelle Obama: The Remix

  77. this was way up there in the posts, but I have to add

    I read Geek Love too! Terrific book.

  78. i didn’t pay much attention to the larry sinclair story – but two things made me comment on it here: http://londonamerican01.blogspot.com/2008/06/putrefaction.html

    firstly the gleeful reaction of the obots is creepy as hell. secondly, the timing just couldn’t be more, um, coincidental.

    there’s a lot that starting to smell real bad around obama.

  79. Best title award this season goes to BBC:
    “Obama not Pathetic, Insists Wife”
    I kid you not!
    http://edgeoforever.wordpress.com/2008/06/19/obama-not-pathetic-insists-wife/

  80. mornig all continue the good fight-as Tim Gunn would say…”designers carry on..” oh and yes “…make it work.”

    Fuzzybeargville

  81. In regards to the Larry Sinclair press conference – Ben Smith says some totally false things about “Bowen’s “PUMAs – mainly that it is a group for Hillary supporters who are now all voting for McCain!

    http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0608/Sinclair_arrested_and_other_notes_from_the_Press_Club.html

    The comments to his article include things like of course, Hillary supporters like Bowen are behind Larry Sinclair & would believe him.

    Riverdaughter – if you can reach Ben Smith to correct his notion of what PUMA is – please try. The smears against PUMA are in full force…

  82. One more thing. I found this story from a Taylor Marsh post. Her post was in total agreement with him. Uggh.

    http://taylormarsh.com/archives_view.php?id=27949

  83. In the words of Hannity”…just who is this Taylor Marsh?”

    Someone with no principals? pro hillary one day pro-bama the next?

    Fuzzybeargville
    let me know abt hillary’s conf call today….how was she sounding

  84. I believe it was Chicago Dyke who made the comments (in a long tirade) about the lack of quality in some of the writers and a few of the regulars properly spanked her for it.

    The quality of the writing had deteriorated at Corrente — as had the quality of the thought. As more people got access to the front page, there were more and more echo chamber posts.

    The reason that some blogs make it, and others don’t, is usually the quality of the writing — there aren’t that many original ideas in the world, and the best blogs are those where the bloggers are capable of expressing what others are thinking in highly readable –and well thought out — prose.

    The idiotic post referenced above wasn’t by a Corrente ‘senior fellow’ — it was by some idiot who had access to Corrente’s front page because that is their policy. The piece itself was roundly criticized in the comments section because it was so stupid. But beyond the sheer stupidity of the post (premised on a lie that Clinton and Obama took different views on the flag burning bill in question), the piece was BAD PROSE.

    And I know a lot about bad prose — I’m a practioner of it. Its why I don’t have my own blog — and why people like RD, and Katie, and BB have attracted such a sizable audience to this blog — people may have showed up here because of what RD was trying to do, but the reason that people keep coming back here is that she can write her butt off.

  85. Good morning, Conflucians.

    How is everybody today?

    PUMA

  86. Maggielou:

    Don’t expect a correction or retraction. The media and OFB will be saying a lot worse about us before it’s over.

    We are defying them, which means they will treat us the way they treat Hillary.

    They will lie, lie, lie, and then lie some more.

    You don’t really think it’s just a coinky-dink that highly paid and highly educated members of the media are “mistaken” on a daily basis in a way that consistenly portrays certain candidates and groups in a negative light, do you?

  87. I respect your not reporting the Larry Sinclair story for the sake of your integrity. However, were he saying these same things about Hillary, do you think for one minute, no make that one milisecond, that the main stream media, the obama camp, his supporters and bloggers would be talking about this story 24-7 and trying to lend some credibity to it?

    Frankly, I hope some independent and curious reporter does take a look at his story and AT LEAST checks it out just to be sure it’s nothing.

    When ONE candidate has a person like billionaire George Soros (a very dangerous man based on his track record and his real intentions for virtually “buying the U.S. presidency through obama) backing you 100%, a media that is totally in the tank for you, the DNC breaking its own rules to favor one candidate over the other and surrogates willing to lie with impunity about the OTHER candidate, obviously getting to the truth about a candidate we know basically nothing about is not going to happen through conventional means.

    Sinclair gave out phone numbers, dates and the name of the limo driver. How hard would it be for any self-respecting reporter to check it out?

    When it comes to a lying narcissicist like obama, I wouldn’t leave any stone left unturned, no matter how crazy or insignificant one may think it is.

  88. Riverdaughter – if you can reach Ben Smith to correct his notion of what PUMA is – please try. The smears against PUMA are in full force…

    yeah, the appropriation of the PUMA concept by anyone and everyone is really beginning to piss me off. While I respect what Bower is doing, the fact that he came out early for McCain is totally screwing the PUMA message.

    Then there are the Obots who are trying to appropriate the PUMA symbol — you cannot be a PUMA and support Obama publicly. Period. But VL over at Corrente is promoting the idea that you can (and I’m calling him Britney from now on, because he might as well call himself Britney Spears as call himself a PUMA.)

  89. Good morning Pluk!

    Are you still posting at Corrente?

    I’m no longer am, not after having a post “de-paged” without any explanation.

    Besides, I won’t drink the kool-aid.

  90. I am a PUMA but I will not vote for McCain.

    But I won’t vote for The Precious either.

  91. Kathleen:

    Investigating is one thing, spreading rumors is another.

    The “progressive” blogosphere was supposed to fight that kind of smear-mongering.

    Instead they are doing the same thing to Hillary.

    If we’re going to make a principled stand, fighting tabloid media coverage should be part of it.

    We should hold ourselves to high standards of conduct, even if our opponents don’t do the same.

  92. I read the transcript of the NPC Larry SInclair event. It does seem really outlandish, but he provided names, events and times, and some phone numbers, so I hope some journalists will investigate them.

    I would imagined they would try. A story with gay sex, drug use, and murder hits the trifecta, and in the context of a presidential candidate, you are talking instant reporter stardom.

    That said, at this point I am highly sceptical.

  93. plukasiak – I hadn’t thought of this before:

    The reason that some blogs make it, and others don’t, is usually the quality of the writing — there aren’t that many original ideas in the world, and the best blogs are those where the bloggers are capable of expressing what others are thinking in highly readable –and well thought out — prose.

    Does bad writing drive away good writing? I think blogs goe through cycles, and some don’t have a long half-life. Plus you have social aspect of the commenters. People get used to a certain group of people and then it becomes hard to welcome new comers.

    Obama has really split the so-called left leaning blog world. I felt hurt for a while, but I just went out and found new blogs.

    I am surprised, and saddened, that so many people I “knew” went into total melt-down mode over ObamaSchism 2008.
    PUMA

  94. Plukasiak,
    I disagree. Bowers makes it clear that PUMA does not neccessarily mean voting for McCain, but I think him saying that he will vote for McCain has been one of the things scaring the Dem leadership so much. If they weren’t hearing McCain’s name I think they would be arrogantly thinking that people were just upset and would eventually fall in line. By putting it out there that some people are moving to McCain, I think it lets them know that the disgust is so high that life-long Dems would go to the other side.

    Also, the MSM will try and distort PUMA as much as they can. They have their own agenda. We have very little access to control the MSM message, so I wouldn’t worry about that. People are hearing so many different things about PUMA, to me, it is taking on a sort of folk status. That is good for grass roots movements.

  95. A good blog post is just the starting point. On a thriving blog, each post is a topic or theme for discussion.

    Blogging is interactive. It takes good writing and the right group dynamics.

    Too much agreement – echo chamber

    Not enough – chaos.

  96. Mawm:

    Once we concede that we will ultimately vote for Obama, we are powerless.

    The Democratic party has taken us for granted, figuring we have no where else to go.

    And until now the GOP has ignored us, figuring that we were committed Dems.

    Suddenly, we’re “in play”

  97. I have no power unless I vote against Obama. In my case, that means that I’m voting for McCain.

    Now is not the time to go wobbly.

    NO DEAL

  98. Does bad writing drive away good writing? I think blogs goe through cycles, and some don’t have a long half-life. Plus you have social aspect of the commenters. People get used to a certain group of people and then it becomes hard to welcome new comers

    no, bad writing dilutes the quality of the blog, and makes it less worth reading.

    as to the community aspect — xmall communities are good, but the bigger the ‘community’ gets, the less useful the comments section becomes. As far as ‘breaking in” to an established community, its tough to do — the best way to do it is with research…if someone asks a question, find the answer and post the link. And keep doing that — eventually, you’lll become part of the ‘community’. And ‘newbies’ should always stay on-topic, and add new “LINKED” information to any discussion.

    Everyone has an opinion — and once there is a “community” adding more people just increases the “me too” quotient.

    Just my personal opinion, of course….

  99. Mawm….
    while Bowers does make it clear that PUMA means ‘Nobama’, the discussions tend to revolve around the question of support for McCain, and Bowers accepts that framing.

    If the PUMA movement is going to have people speaking for it, they have to be able to be able to consistently make every question about Obama’s unsuitability, and the corruption of the Democratic Party.

  100. I prefer blogs where there is a sense of community among the bloggers and commenters.

    No so small and insular that it becomes a private club, but not so big that everyone is anonymous.

    Also, for longevity a blog needs some diversity of topics. Single issue blogs flame-out quickly.

    I used to like Balloon Juice before it became CDS central. Now that Corrente is a kool-aid site I’m an orphan again.

  101. plukasiak, I think you are right on that one. I want him to concentrate more on the corruption of the Democratic party too. I will email him about that.

  102. Regarding Sinclair. Yes, we should not spread rumors, but we also should not dismiss the information he gave at the press conference as necessarily unreliable. Like they did at NoQuarter, Larry simply posted the transcript of the press conference and told his members to make up their own minds about its veracity or lack thereof.

    Regarding the increased attacks against groups, such as PUMA, (which I have joined BTW)…it is a form of psyops exercise to try to break our will and make us feel vulnerable and break loose our convictions. It is also a sign that those that mean to silence us are nervous that we are making a difference. I agree wholeheartedly with the poster who said “now is not the time to go all wobbly.”

    They tried to do it to Hillary and she stood up to them and literaly went through hell to continue what was her right to do so — finish the primary, which was a dead heat. No man would have been asked to leave the race under those circumstances and she was beaten up unmercifally for not doing so.

    Now, I think it’s our turn to return the favor to her. If we don’t stand up against the DNC’s insider coup, we will live to regret it and so will our children and their children’s children.

    Our country is worth fighting for. Hillary is worth fighting for.

  103. There is a wealth of humor and merriment in the Sinclair saga which should not be missed
    http://edgeoforever.wordpress.com/2008/06/19/obama-not-pathetic-insists-wife/

  104. Hey kids, if you don’t do Larry Sinclair, then don’t do him. Ya know? If you are going to take the time to ridicule him, perhaps you should take the time to study his allegations and the history of what he’s been through in trying to be heard. Fair is fair. Otherwise shut up.

  105. sorry for the “shut up” in my 10:40 post. I don’t ever ask anyone to stiffle, but Donald Young was murdered.
    Obama is on the low down according to every gay person not-in-the-tank-for-the-big-zero that has weighed in. Gaydar is going off the register. Sinclair has been put through the ringer both forwards and backwards. Chicago gay sources say Obama is on the low down. If Sinclair is an opportunist, then he is feeding off the environment of what is some truly hinky stuff going on in the Chicago gay scene/ Trinity Emporium of Hate fiasco.
    I have followed Sinclair’s stuff and am inclined to believe him. If you study the info available, you would certainly at least have an open mind. And you would definitely want a decent investigation into the murder of Donald Young– which does not seem to be happening.

  106. That’s “down low” not “low down”.

  107. angelasmith,

    I agree with your analysis about Sinclair. He was smart to go public and make such a big splash about wanting to tell the public what he knew. Now, if he were to be mysteriously murdered, run over by a truck or die in his sleep, that would raise alot of questions and probably invoke a serious investigation into his allegations.

    Sadly for Mr. Young, he kept his mouth shut for too long. However, if chicago is as corrupt as we’ve heard and read about, then I doubt very seriously Chicago’s finest will put a lot of effort into investigating Mr. Young’s death.

    I truly hope this story catches the eye of a hungry reporter and they make a real effort at investigating Sinclair’s allegations. Of course, that reporter better be smart enough to realize that if they do start investigating this, they had better keep it low key and maintain very good records.

  108. I’ve been following Sinclair’s story since I first heard his first radio interview with Jeff Rense. I absolutely believe him. There is much evidence to prove what he says. If you stop and go to his website and listen to him on the 5 interviews with Rense, you won’t be ridiculing him. Look at the evidence he has posted.

    A former chef at a Chicago restaurant has stated that she heard the rumors of BO being gay/bi in the late nineties and 2000’s. What is so hard to believe about that? Politicians are going down for sex every month or so.

    The problem is really that he did crack while he was a state senator. We know that crack is a hard drug to stop. What if he hasn’t? What if this info falls into the wrong hands and they blackmail BO while he’s in office? Who knows what could happen to this country and the deals he would have to make to keep the blackmailers quiet.

    Just food for thought.

    GO LARRY! I believe him.

  109. One more thing about Sinclair, why is it so hard for people to believe that Donald Young might have been murdered to keep him silent? You are talking about the presidency of the US and the power it employs. The people behind BO are people who try to control the world ecomomics for their personal gain. We should be asking the question “Why wouldn’t they kill him and make it look like a random murder or a suicide etc.?”

    People are killed everyday for just a few hundred dollars or a life insurance policy, or for no reason at all.

    The rich and powerful start wars and takeover govts. all the time, and they have no problem with killing the innocent people and executing the former govts.

    So I ask again, why do you find it so hard to believe anything Sinclair says?

  110. I think we should be saying that we’re voting for Hillary in November come hell or high water. We should be basing our opposition to Obama on principle and coming up with a principled response to the rhreat he presents to the Democratic party.

    I’m shooting a commercial for PUMA and that’s what the text is all about. It allows us to focus the discussion back on Obama instead of on our allegiance or lack of allegiance to the Democratic party. If we say we’re voting for McCain, it allows the opposition to paint us as unfaithful to the Democratic cause in a way that saying that you’re voting for Clinton doesn’t.

  111. These are the kinds of things that are going to hurt obama in the long run….

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-06-18-detroit-event_N.htm

  112. look, we pumas have a chance to re-shape the democratic party in a much more progressive direction if we seize the moment and fight. there’s nothing to be gained for us if the dear leader wins in the fall — all we’ll get is four years of pc-republicanism and a demoralised and hollowed-out democractic party.

    the democratic party as it currenty exists needs to lose – and lose big – if they insist on putting obama up as the nominee against the will of the primary voters.

    i have no problem with tactically supporting mccain if it helps ensure that obama is kept away from the levers of power.

    i think the question really is do we care about the party or the country first? given the way most people feel on this board, i think the answer should be obvious.

  113. Before we discard Larry Sinclair as a complete lunatic with a very real criminal record, consider this.He gave the name of the supposed limo driver that evening he claims to have had oral sex with Barry<> So the limo driver could be found, if he indeed exists and the story could be verified. And if the limo driver says yes he was driving Barry and Larry around that evening, cell phone records would be the glaring proof since Larry claims the limo driver called Precious that night. I wonder if there are any journalists alive that would research this story? I am not holding my breath:o) It’s far easier to simply cast this off as a “crazy mans delusional allegations”

  114. Larry Sinclair has thus far failed to produce a single viable piece of evidence. Is it any wonder nobody in the mainstream media wants to risk their career and credibility covering this farce?

    I’ve been trying to get Mr. Sinclair to response to questions on his blog (simple ones, like “If you think Obama’s phone records would prove you right, why don’t you provide your phone records, they should work just as well, right?” ), but the blog is so heavily moderated that not one single real question can get through, and apparently even his own worshipers are now having a hard time posting due to overaggressive comment deletion.

    Legally and morally, the burden is on Sinclair to prove his allegations, not on Obama to disprove them. Larry Sinclair knows this, but he is banking (quite literally) on the fact that the court of public opinion operates quite differently than a court of law, and isn’t making any substantial effort to prove his accusations.

    I know several people who’ve tried to ask questions of Mr. Sinclair, but that is apparently not allowed on his blog, despite the fact that his blog clearly states “You may comment on any post, regardless of your position. However, please note that any and all abusive, threatening and vulgar comments and emails will result in your user name, email address and IP address being posted regardless and without the posters permission. You have been warned.” .

    Small wonder, huh? The guy who wants to force Obama to answer his questions will not answer anyone else’s 🙂

    I personally would love it if someone in the media just exposed this guy for the fraud he is. I’d watch that episode for certain, and I’m sure the advertisers would be well pleased by the number of viewers 😉

  115. For those who wish to stay together in a long term commitment to the ideals and rinciples that Hillary Clinton has spent a lifetime promoting, http://Together4Us.com offers access for activists, funders, students, policy-makers and ordinary people to come together in support of each other and their goals for America. Please come to our website and join, use the code below to put our linked logo on your website and distribute our message and this code to all your network. Spread the word. We will be happy to put up a reciprocal link, your own co-branded web page on our site, or your own blog.

    Thanks so much,
    Gretchen Glasscock,
    Together4Us

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