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Monday: Hoodwinked and Bamboozled

Have you ever been on the receiving end of some practical joke or confidence scheme? You know, where you’ve been lead on for a good long time only to find everything was a scam and deception from the word go?

That’s the way I feel about this past primary season now that the DNC has effectively picked the winner and moved the whole racket to Chicago. BTW, what is the exact definition of racketeering and has the DNC defrauded its donors and Clinton supporters of money?

Commenter CognitiveDissonance expresses my growing bewilderment and anger pretty well:

This is theft, pure and simple. And not just theft of Sen. Clinton’s chances of winning the nomination, but of so much more. It is theft of the thousands (probably millions) of hours spent by all her volunteers and staff – time we’ll never get back. Theft of the millions and millions of dollars that we contributed to Sen. Clinton. And theft of Sen. Clinton’s personal assets, since she contributed to her own campaign to fight until the end, and is now in the hole. Sen. Clinton is now in a bad financial situation regarding the debt of her campaign because of these thieves.

I never thought I’d see the day that one democrat would use racist smears against another to get elected. I also never thought I’d see the day that one democrat and the party leaders would blatantly steal like they have this cycle. I just can’t get past this. I would rather see the party die altogether than get away with this. It can’t continue as a viable party if this is let stand.

Friends, we really need to get to the bottom of this because if this whole primary season was fixed before it even started,where was our input, free will, enfranchisement? If it was all an exercise in futility it is something that must NEVER happen again

The DNC has some massive explaining to do and possible legal action required. It makes the calls for unity as cynical a ploy as we previously thought. In fact, the bloggers who instantly signed onto this fraud after Clinton suspended her campaign might want to consider walking it back.  This party and candidate would be a disgrace and they put themselves at risk of contamination. I hope for the DNC’s sake it isn’t true. Anger and fury would be only the beginnings.

Anglachel has more on this in Logistics.

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263 Responses

  1. So not fair. I take the evenig off and ALL this happens.

  2. You snooze, you lose. 😉

  3. Seriously now, RD. This is quite exciting…..Expect dementors.

  4. I have asked repeatedly on other sites, “Do we have the right to see all of the communications between Dean, DNC and Obama camp?” I believe the fix has always been in from the beginning.

  5. From Anglachel:

    “If the DNC has already relocated to Chicago, as reported by the commenter Molly in the Hillary Clinton Forum, then the plan to move was approved months ago.

    I’ve been involved in the merger of two good sized US corporations. It’s not something that can be done at the drop of a hat. Costs have to be scoped, budgets established, plans made, landlords current and prospective contacted, vendors hired, bills paid, accounts closed in DC and opened in Chicago, equipment purchased, staff relocated, reassigned and/or terminated, letterhead and business cards printed, signage created, phone service changed, and that’s just the stuff off the top of my head

    This casts the repeated insistence that Florida and Michigan not be allowed to change the outcome in a new light.”

    PUMA

    And on Emmanuel’s knitting comment, since when do Democrats marginalize voting groups like older women? What if he said to African Americans, “They’re just going to stick to their hip hop” or to the youth “they’re just going to stick to their keggers.” They shouldn’t play favorites with Democratic voting groups, because they’ll feel they’re not wanted and go somewhere else.

  6. For some time now, it’s been clear that the DNC and party “leadership” will risk anything and everything to keep Hillary from being President–including losing the presidency in a year in which a Democratic candidate should have been a shoo-in. And yet we’re the ones who are acting irrationally? It makes my head swim.

  7. Here is the kind of reporting we will be seeing in the effort to bring us along and sway those that think they have no other choice. Remember, any pollster can get and will get the kind of results they are looking for.

    Fight against this kind of marketing:

    http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-women16-2008jun16,0,5593581.story

  8. and anyone who believes this guy is the lesser of two evils, have I got a bridge for you…………….

  9. Obama camp sees possible win without Ohio, Fla.”>Obama camp sees possible win without Ohio, Fla.

    Are they drunk on the Kool Aid? Are they already nervous about Ohio and Florida?

    article snippets:

    “At a fundraiser held at a Washington brewery Friday, Plouffe told a largely young crowd that the electoral map would be fundamentally different from the one in 2004. Wins in Ohio and Florida would guarantee Obama the presidency if he holds onto the states won by Democrat John Kerry, Plouffe said, but those two battlegrounds aren’t required for victory.

    Florida, which has 27 electoral votes this year, gave the presidency to George W. Bush in the disputed election of 2000. Ohio, with its 20 electoral votes, ensured Bush of re-election in 2004 in his race against Kerry.

    The presumed Democratic nominee’s electoral math counts on holding onto the states Kerry won, among them Michigan (17 electoral votes), where Obama campaigns on Monday and Tuesday. Plouffe said most of the Kerry states should be reliable for Obama, but three currently look relatively competitive with Republican rival John McCain — Pennsylvania, Michigan and particularly New Hampshire.

    Asked about his remarks, Plouffe said Ohio and Florida start out very competitive — but he stressed that they are not tougher than other swing states and said Obama”

    “Plouffe and his aides are weighing where to contest, and where chances are too slim to marshal a large effort. A win in Virginia (13 electoral votes) or Georgia (15 votes) could give Obama a shot if he, like Kerry, loses Ohio or Florida.

    Plouffe also has been touting Obama’s appeal in once Republican-leaning states where Democrats have made gains in recent gubernatorial and congressional races, such as Colorado, Nevada, New Mexico, Montana, Alaska and North Dakota.”

    “The key, Plouffe told supporters, will be to register new black voters and new young voters in Virginia.

    Likewise, Georgia has many unregistered black voters who could turn out in record numbers to support the first major-party nominee who is black, he argued. Plouffe said the campaign also will keep an eye on Mississippi and Louisiana as the race moves into the fall to see if new black voters could put them within reach.

    In a telling bit of scheduling, Obama declared himself within reach of the nomination at the statehouse in Iowa, yet another state he hopes to put in play.”

  10. But why? Was all this for a few dollars more? For an historical run as the first black president, isn’t the first woman president as historical? Was it due to Bill Clinton not always playing by party rules, and crossing party lines to get the shit done. Sorry for the language, but it makes you crazy trying to figure out exactly why millions of voters were sold down the river for Obama, a candidate who is not even qualified. Did the DNC see the puppeteers pulling the strings on W’s presidency and have now decided they want to play?

    I don’t understand.

  11. The press is not covering any aspect of the DNC move. I just googled and it is nowhere. Everyone I tell about the physical move is outraged. More than one has said “Will he move the federal government to Chicago too?” They are purposely keeping this out of circulation because it is so obviously a hostile takeover of the party apparatus. They know we have already figured out that this has been in the works for months. Why Chicago if anyone else could have won the primaries? Another indicator of a rigged process.

  12. Bizarre — it’s too weird. And while I know that it couldn’t possibly been planned, the death of Tim Russert insured that no one would be talking about the move this weekend.

  13. If this is true, I cannot believe that Hillary will go along with this. We need to get this out into the mainstream. Right, I know, the media was part of the conspiracy. But we need to get someone like Arlen Spector, or someone who has an interest in the constitution and the law to start making a lot of noise about this. It is friggin illegal. These people are criminals and they must be stopped.

  14. Some grist for your mill:

    Mike Barnicle: If you talk to some of these Democratic senators, their biggest fear is a legitimate fear: that the operation we call the Clintons is never going to go away.

    That’s the biggest anchor on the party. I mean, if you’re John Edwards from North Carolina or John Kerry from Massachusetts or Evan Bayh from Indiana, are you looking for a breakout strategy? It’s like the Battle of the Bulge: You think everything’s O.K., but you don’t realize you’re surrounded in the fog and the snow, and the Clintons are out there.

    From: Divided Democrats: The post-Clinton party, March 2001

  15. Do we know that the whole DNC has been moved to Chicago?

    The phones are being answered this morning there at the old 202 area code number.

  16. ” if you’re John Edwards from North Carolina or John Kerry from Massachusetts or Evan Bayh from Indiana, are you looking for a breakout strategy? It’s like the Battle of the Bulge: You think everything’s O.K., but you don’t realize you’re surrounded in the fog and the snow, and the Clintons are out there. ”

    Huh? Evan Bayh endorsed and campaigned with Hillary.

  17. plural: Huh? Evan Bayh endorsed and campaigned with Hillary.

    So? He may have decided not to go with the long-shot. Promises may have been made.

    Think like a politician.

  18. plural, phone numbers are protable now. Just bevause the number is the same doesn’t mean the phone is not ringing on Michigan Ave.

  19. Is there any evidence to back up the growing number of conspiracy theories on this website? We aren’t helping Hillary if we start making far-fetched claims.

    Demanding that Hillary get what she’s entitled to is perfectly fair, and it’s the right thing to do. But if we start acting like a bunch of far-out moonbats, we damage her credibility and our own. The last thing we want is for Hillary to become the next Ralph Nader. And the last thing this country needs is another 4 years of Bush, which is what John McCain represents.

  20. Don’t sweeties know they stick out like a sore thumb even if they pretend to be HIllary supporters?

  21. What Mike Barnicle said in 2001 may or may not have been true in 2001. This is 2008. And I wouldn’t believe Mike Barnicle anyway anytime.

  22. Hillary Supporter, Sweetie: We’re happy to hear your thoughts if you’ve got something productive to say. But, accusing us of making far-fetched claims doesn’t sound productive to me.

    This site might not be a good fit for you if you’re supporting Senator Obama. But, feel free to follow the link at the bottom of the page to start your own blog instead….

  23. They are moving the political and field organizing operations per Politico on Friday. This is the part that they want to dominate. They can control down ticket candidates also to control, punish, and purge.

  24. It’s a free country, katiebird. If you can’t tell from my name, I’m interested in helping Hillary. My concern is that you guys are starting to get so far out on the fringe that you’re doing more harm than good.

    Can’t you bear to hear opposing views? Or do you want to make sure the PUMA sites are an echo chamber where you can pat yourself on the back instead of working toward a positive outcome for Hillary?

  25. Hillary Supporter 2008: Is there any evidence to back up the growing number of conspiracy theories on this website? We aren’t helping Hillary if we start making far-fetched claims.

    What I published is a journalist’s statement. This is a blog. We discuss things.

    As far as ‘helping Hillary’ is concerned — opinions will vary, but I don’t see myself as connected to her, particularly since her campaign is suspended. I look at this more from the point-of-view of a supporter who wasted time and money given that HRC’s senate colleagues felt their interests were better served by stepping on the scale.

  26. k-bird: This site might not be a good fit for you if you’re supporting Senator Obama. But, feel free to follow the link at the bottom of the page to start your own blog instead….

    I LOL every time you write this.

  27. Thanks hlr, it’s nice to get a constructive answer. I came here because I heard that some people were still working to get Hillary to the White House. I was hoping that I could lend a hand in working toward that goal.

    Maybe I came to the wrong place.

  28. I look at this more from the point-of-view of a supporter who wasted time and money given that HRC’s senate colleagues felt their interests were better served by stepping on the scale.

    And given the unprecedented amount of money contributed by regular people this year — maybe we were even the victims of fraud.

  29. I told you there would be dementors. Practice your patronus, peeps.

  30. Hillary Supporter 2008: Maybe I came to the wrong place.

    Probably not, I’m sure some share your goals.

    My attitude is that if HRC indicates in *some* fashion that her supporters should be working toward this goal, I’d probably be on board. So far, I haven’t seen any indication. What do you think?

  31. hlr, I agree that she hasn’t indicated that yet. And maybe she won’t; her endorsement of Obama seemed pretty unambiguous. One of the things I wanted to learn here is whether there’s any plan out there to get her the presidency.

    Hillary has definitely expressed interest in a VP position, which is only one step away from the Presidency. I would like to see her in that role, AT LEAST, and I think her supporters could do a lot to get her there.

  32. hlr: sometimes you scare me.

    Must go now. Be good to each other.

  33. Racketeering is a criminal offense. We need the feds to investigate this as soon as possible. If Obama wins the General election, it will never be investigated. Furthermore, we need to focus on overhauling the DNC.

  34. The statements that I keep hearing from the Obama campaign and the DNC “purge the party” really bother me. My 17 year old son just read “Mein Kempf” and guess who used that language and “purged” his party? The other piece of this puzzle that is not getting enough notice is the influence and involvement of George Soros in all of this. If you look at this as a hostile takeover of the democratic party by Soros, it all starts to make more sense.

  35. I’m not seeing anything being said here that’s far fetched. It’s true the media isn’t covering the DNC move to Chicago, and it’s also true that’s it’s a strange move to begin with. It’s a natural process that people are questioning what’s going on and those telling the people here they are on the fringe aren’t helping do anything but perpetuate the problem. The idea that the DNC is moving so soon after they’ve completed their fix of the election, only shows that it’s been in the works for some time, and those in the party behind this weren’t going to have the people’s votes get in the way. Makes me even more upset about what’s been going on, that they now don’t care how blatant they are being about showing what they’ve been up to.

  36. why is anybody even talking to the so called “hillary supporter”. why anyone would think they can come here, call us conspiracy theorists and then expect civil conversation is beyond me. I think he/she should leave if it doesn’t like the atmosphere. the us may be a free country, but this blog is not, and I for one don’t apprectiate being insulted.

  37. Hillary Supporter 2008: Hillary has definitely expressed interest in a VP position

    Opinion is mixed on this topic. I believe it slants against.

    I would guess, after reading hundreds of comments, that most have a ‘wait and see’ attitude about what happens over the next month w/r/t the nomination.

  38. This is FUNNY in a SAD way!!

    http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/06/16/obama-oh-fl/

    The presumed Democratic nominee’s electoral math counts on holding onto the states Kerry won, among them Michigan (17 electoral votes), where Obama campaigns on Monday and Tuesday. Plouffe said most of the Kerry states should be reliable for Obama, but three currently look relatively competitive with Republican rival John McCain — Pennsylvania, Michigan and particularly New Hampshire.

    Asked about his remarks, Plouffe said Ohio and Florida start out very competitive — but he stressed that they are not tougher than other swing states and said Obama will play “extremely hard” for both. But he said the strategy is not reliant on one or two states.

    “You have a lot of ways to get to 270,” Plouffe said. “Our goal is not to be reliant on one state on November 4th.”

    Should we remind the blogger boyz that their guy was supposed to expand the MAP in a mighty fashion?? Now, he is looking at Kerry states+1?? Hahahahaha…

    The trajectory on losing states:

    2000 – Florida
    2004 – Ohio
    2008 – Michigan and Pennsylvania

    Way to go!!

  39. Hillary Supporter 2008–Over a year ago, Talking Points Memo began hearing that a few U.S. Attorneys were “resigning.” As readers chimed in, it became clear that the number was more than “a few,” and TPM pursued the story with a vengeance, even though the traditional media gave the story no credence. Today, we know most of the story behind those political firings, but the whole situation began as nothing more than speculation–trying to fit together pieces of a puzzle. So I wouldn’t denigrate the intelligent people here who are speculating on behind-the-scenes machinations that might have taken place during the primaries, or even earlier. The political connections that people have on this site, as well as on other blogs, may be the catalyst that finally provides the truth about what took place during this election cycle, and my guess is that it won’t be pretty.

  40. Obama’s hold on the nomination will be loosened if he is seen as completely unelectable (right now, he is not, although evidence points to it) or that a scandal sinks his candidacy (perhaps Rezco will sing to Fitz in time – he was the second major politician in the Rezko case along with Blogojevich).

  41. It’s uncanny that you have a post with this title today. This morning I woke up thinking about how they’ve been trying to “bamboozle” us and how little credit they give us for being onto them.

    re Carol’s comment @ 8:19 — I would just LOVE for someone to get a lawsuit going and subpoena any and all communications between Camp BO and the DNC. Attorneys out there — is legal action even a remote possibility here?

  42. that’s the second time you’ve insulted me hillary supporter. I’m done with you. bye bye….

  43. Sorry, just saw the link that WS provided upthread.

  44. Jules: you can file a legal action any time, if you can get through parts of the discovery process before a Motion for Summary Judgment is brought in, you can get the records.

  45. Good point grayslady.

  46. jules: how little credit they give us for being onto them.

    I can tell you this much — the seniors in my area who have worked Dem campaigns cycle after cycle are done. They’ve been doing all that scut work: the envelope stuffing, the phone calling — more often than not for races that aren’t all that glamorous.

    They smell a rat, and they’re po’d. They feel ripped off and taken for granted. Not all of them were HRC supporters — there’s one older gentleman who I run into at the post office weekly. Every time I see him, he pulls me aside and says ‘the media picked the nominee! I want to hear more from the other candidates.’ He wants the primary to start over, LOL.

  47. jules, on June 16th, 2008 at 9:26 am Said:
    ———————
    I am not a lawyer but have read that there is no illegality to any of the stuff they are doing. They can crown a dog as a nominee if they want to. Our collective power lies in our vote — this is one election where people have to educate themselves because critical information is not being given by the media to the public at large. It shows how journalistic integrity is essential to democracy. People like Hillary Supporter 2008 (that handle makes me laugh) up thread are what we are fighting against among other things — ignorance is bliss for some people.

  48. Likewise, Georgia has many unregistered black voters who could turn out in record numbers to support the first major-party nominee who is black, he argued. Plouffe said the campaign also will keep an eye on Mississippi and Louisiana as the race moves into the fall to see if new black voters could put them within reach.

    I think we saw how flawed this particular strategy was in Indiana — where turnout among African-Americans was so high that more AA’s voted in the Dem primary than voted in the 2004 General Election. But that was accompanied by a “white backlash” — more white voters voted in the primary than voted for Kerry in 2004 — and went for Clinton by 20 points — and white Democrats went to Clinton by 30 points.

    A GOTV strategy based on ‘ideitity politics’ is going to backfire — and do tremendous damage to race relations in this country.

  49. Let me repost my question from last night. Where did the money come from to finance the costs that Anglachel mentioned last night (printing, rent, hiring)? Did it come from the donations given to the DNC for organizing (before many of us cut them off)?

    Face it too that most of us can’t give that much. Are they out of money because we stopped giving? Or because they blew it on this move and an overly expensive party out in Denver?

    Remember how some bloggers would keep saying “hey, Obama has it in the bag”? We would get so frustrated arguing facts with them but now it turns out that none of that mattered. This must have been one of the best/worst kept secrets in DC. How about the press?

    Trust me somebody is going to follow this up. Unfortunately, none of it will — or even can — occur PRIOR to the election. But please folks start totaling up campaign donation receipts both to Hillary and (earlier) the DNC.

  50. pm317: The issue is in allowing people to work long hard hours and invest their MONEY when the DNC knows the situation is futile for these people. I’d be shocked if a fraud case couldn’t be written, if enough evidence is obtained.

  51. pm317 — do you have any plans in MD?

    BTW, I read about O’Malley on his Sinners for Hillary Redemption Tour. He is making a claim that MD shouldn’t be taken for granted (for BO) because McCain has fans in Annapolis around the Naval Academy. Pfffft.

  52. plukasiak: The Obama campaign has shown time and again, that they have no problem with throwing race relations under the bus.

  53. PM317,

    I see your point. But River and others raise the key point. It’s one thing to “fix” an election within a party apparatus. It’s another to solicit money for something and then spend it on another. (That’s why I want someone to track DNC funds.)

  54. Forgive me if someone has already posted this — I was off line yesterday — but this Gallup comment is revealing:

    “the structure of the race looks slightly different than at any other time this year as a result of the relatively high percentage of voters — 15% — not favoring either major-party candidate. This includes 7% of voters who say they are undecided and 8% who say they will not vote for either candidate (including 1% who volunteer they will vote for another specific candidate).”

    gallup.com/poll/107854/Gallup-Daily-ObamaMcCain-Race-Reverts-Virtual-Tie.aspx

  55. I can’t believe this is not even in the “news.” Talking to a well-informed friend last night, she didn’t even know about the move to Chicago and was concerned. Since when does a “presumptive” nominee have this kind of control over the entire DNC apparatus?! And to whom is Howard Dean accountable? There has to be a way, beyond cutting off funding, to counter their unilateral actions. Aren’t there ANY independent journalists or Dems with a spine out there?

    I know there are a lot of lawyers on blogs, can’t lawsuits be filed for caucus fraud etc. to trigger reaction and exposure?

  56. I am not a lawyer but have read that there is no illegality to any of the stuff they are doing. They can crown a dog as a nominee if they want to.

    actually, because the DNC receives federal funds (for instance $50 million of your federal tax dollars are going for ‘security’ in Denver), and most of its delegate selection process is funded by state taxes (primaries), and in most states the Democratic Party gets preferential ballot treatment, it has an obligation to provide certain constitutional protections.

    The court precedents that you seem to think are relevant all have to do with the question of “open” and “closed” primaries — i.e. whether the DNC can prevent non-Democrats from voting in its primaries (they can, as a ‘private organization’).

    But there is a whole ‘nother’ body of cases having to do with ‘voting rights’ and ‘equal protection’ — these cases are from the 1930s and 1940s, and deal with the fact that the Democratic party is a “state actor’ (i.e. it act under color of law, and is an inseparable part of the election process in most states.)

    Thus the question becomes whether the DNC can effectively disenfranchise voters in one or more states, in whole or in part, based on its rules — and more importantly, whether it can selectively enforce its own rules to the advantage of voters in some states and disadvantage to voters in other states.

  57. plukasiak: That is exactly what I saw when I worked on his campaign. While many AA voters were predicted to register and vote, there were white voters who had not voted in years threatening to pour out. I knew then, we were entering into territory that could get ugly fast. It was my biggest fear that race would become a bigger factor than the economy, the war, etc. I saw this as an area that we were making advances in, this could set us back years and shouldn’t even be on the table.

    I live in the south and of course, there may be more “whote backlash” here than in other areas, but the possibility of real problems exist. The language I heard suggested an almost mob mentality and truthfully, it not only depresssed me enough to get out the political campaigning arena for a couple of months, it also sounded scary. If you talk to people here, they are scared.

  58. Kim: The language I heard suggested an almost mob mentality

    I don’t understand something. If there was that much frothing at the mouth, why did the white vote in SC split b/t Clinton/Edwards?

  59. At the time I was on his campaign (Obama-yes I drank the koolaid for a few months), there did not seem to be a lot of credibility to his candidacy. The AA’s I spoke to where, for the most part, Clinton supporters and were waiting to see on Obama. Then of course, Oprah came to Columbia and that was that. Many “good old southern boys”, just could not vote for a woman, Gary and Mawm, know the guys I am referring to, so Edwards was the only plausible candidate. THAT HAS CHANGED, these “good old boys” did not see this coming and ask them now, who they support, it is, “Well i’d a voted for Hillary, but I guess now I gotta go McCain.”

  60. Re: racketeering and collusion —
    The date to be looking at is April 25, when it was announced that the Obama campaign and the DNC has set up joint fundrasing operations….and had “not reached an agreement with the Clinton campaign”…

    http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/04/25/obama-and-dnc-set-up-fund-raising-committee/

    such joint-fundraising efforts are a given in presidential campaigns…the fact that the DNC shut Clinton out of a deal is the smoke… but it will take a lawsuit involving supoenaed documents and testimony under oath to find the “gun” that is smoking…

  61. I was talking with my friend (an Obama supporter) the other day about the electoral map. She was talking about Georgia and Virginia. I came out and told her (hopefully not too bluntly), “There are no black states.” I don’t want to be rude, but if every African-American in the country voted for Sen. Obama (which I would love to see numbers on AA voter turnout…I doubt they are higher than any other racial group), I still don’t see how that turns a single red state. Anyone know which state has the highest percentage of AAs? I would assume no one is higher than 30%, if that, but would love to see some numbers. Especially considering Hispanics should outnumber AAs at this point.

    I agree (and I’m not sure I like it…) that there is a huge potential for a racial backlash. If the convention wisdom (which is different than real-life fact) among the electorate is that all AAs are voting for Sen. Obama, and the electorate believe it is simply b/c of race, then there may be a “white rush” to Sen. McCain.

    I certainly don’t support such racial division, but in the world of realpolitik, this is certainly a very plausible scenario.

  62. Paul,

    April 25th is the first date . . .

    But Anglachel was right — then go back to when the logistics for Chicago were first set up. Of course, getting anyone to talk in Chicago (given retribution of Daley machine) will be tough.

  63. The passion expressed here is ; exhilarating!
    I’m still “hoping” for a Hillary to get the nomination in August !
    If not then I’ll decide what to do.
    The only ABSOLUTE is NObama!
    For now I will continue to contact the McCain camp; to
    point out the “dirty tricks” the Obama camp plays.
    McCain is a “GOOD & PATRIOTIC” man ; he & the country do not deserve a “repeat” of what they did to Hillary & Bill !

  64. plukasiak – completely OT, but I always enjoy your posts… (just thought I’d say that)

  65. Kim — Interesting. Another question, if you know the answer. SC has about 10 counties that are predominantly rural. Did any of the campaigns do any significant organizing in them?

  66. dang it…i hate those inadvertent smile-y faces!!!!

  67. hlr, on June 16th, 2008 at 9:43 am Said:

    pm317 — do you have any plans in MD?
    ————————

    hlr, unfortunately, I am just one voter and am ready and waiting to jump on the bandwagon of any of you. I am very riled up on this because it hurts me to think I gave up my Indian citizenship for this?? On the one hand finding out that America is not as advanced as they should be on women’s rights given their wealth and status in the world and on the other the corruption of a party I thought rose above such. Both aspects of this election are galling to me. I and my husband will vote for McCain as protest votes if nothing else. I really want to talk to some party people to see if they are fine with what is going on but don’t know how.

    Thanks for addressing the legality question. I have heard courts are reluctant to get into party rules and operations but you all have a point. I am also afraid, that there will be a rush to see who can defraud more in the GE, Republicans or Democrats? Each will be watching the other like a hawk and watch for lawsuits galore. This is not how it should be in the wealthiest of democracies in the world.

  68. Don’t just fear a white backlash. There are other racial groups within the us besides black/white.

    They key will be whether Obama can pull Latinos with him. Up to now, he’s not done a particularly effective job here on the West Coast.

    Throwing the spoils to one group doesn’t sell well in the GE.

    Nor is telling folks — e.g. Ohio/Florida — that you don’t need your votes. Especially when your campaign is gearing up to challenge the vote based on popular v electoral votes.

  69. You may have “bad faith” for all the contributors that thought the donation would go to the candidate that actually won, if you can prove that it was rigged.

  70. captsfufp: Anyone know which state has the highest percentage of AAs? I would assume no one is higher than 30%, if that, but would love to see some numbers.

    DC: 60.1% 🙂
    MS: 36.0%
    LA: 32.4%
    SC: 28.9%
    GA: 27.5%
    MD: 27.1%
    .

    VA: 19.1%

    MD is so liberal that BO will easily win. VA — BO would need about 38% of the non-Black vote, which is not out of the realm of possibility. I would imagine that in MS, the idea is to find enough young white voters. I have no idea whether it’s do-able in the face of large white turnout.

    link

  71. pm317 — you, me, honora, a few others, need to figure out a way to get together. I might register some sort of hotmail address and post it for contact purposes.

  72. It is really interesting to me that Plouffe is putting their racial/identity politics strategy front and center. I think they expected to have the AAs in their back pocket, and then work on increasing their numbers in other groups. Now, it seems they are falling back to a strategy that is predicated on 100% AA turn out in Nov.

    I agree with plukasiak that this strategy will back fire on them, and do damage to race relations. The only chance Obama had was to be “post-racial”(I hate that word), to make his campaign about everything BUT race. Now, southern whites are going to see what is going on, and there WILL be a backlash.

    It is very saddening to me to see Obama trash all the work Democrats have done for race-relations in order to selfishly grab the nomination. I would not surprise if we see some kind of violence before Nov. I am definitely NOT calling for it, because I abhor violence, but what Obama is doing with fraudulent voter registration drives, and calling people who don’t support him racist are setting up really nasty political conditions in the south for the fall.

  73. hey RD, you’re headlined on the wordpress sign in page!

  74. hlr: No, I did not see any organizing in the rural areas. In the beginning and again, I was there very early on and there were not many of us, there were three offices, Columbia, Greenville and Charleston. McCain and Edwards hit some rural areas.

    I can only speak for the south, but here, Latinos and blacks, and I do not want to stereotype, do not tend to agree on much of anything.

    I think Mississippi has the highest percentage of AA voters. North Carolina has I think, 22% and South Carolina is about 24 %. But again, there WILL be, count on it, more whites registering to vote than ever before in the SOuth.

    The South has come a long way, but rumor and innuendo goes a long way, especially in rural areas. Many people have heard the word, reparation, and they do not like that word.

  75. FROM ISRAEL NEWSPAPER……..AL QUEDA TERRORIST SON IS FUNDRAISER FOR OBAMA. HERE IS THE LINK TO PAPER

    http://israelmatzav.blogspot.com/

  76. These have been sad times. During the primaries, I felt confused. Something was wrong, but I didn’t know what. Now I know. The Chicago Plan was already in place. I was shatterd.

    I got my courage back thanks to River Daughter, and I got my chutpah back by hanging out with you Conflucians.

    Obama and the DNC were depending on our demoralization. They thought we could be bullied. They thought we could be silenced. They thought wrong. Woe unto them.

    Now that the PUMA movement is getting organized, I feel empowered. We are a force to be reckoned with.

    To all those who have been told “Obama/the DNC doesn’t need you” I say “PUMA needs you. Come on in!”

    PUMA

  77. I don’t understand something. If there was that much frothing at the mouth, why did the white vote in SC split b/t Clinton/Edwards?

    one of the more interesting things is what happened with the white vote in South Carolina… I wrote about it in an appendix to a series I’d done on sexism and misogyny in the general electorate —http://www.correntewire.com/the_poisoned_landscape_race_gender_election_2008

    Basically, virtually all of Obama’s improvement in SC polling came from black voters == to the point where he was only 2 points behind Clinton in mid-December while only getting 18% of the white vote — and in early January, was 20 points above Clinton while having only 29% of the white vote because the white vote was split 3 ways (38% Clinton, 28% Edwards).

    Then the “race-boating” of Clinton happened, and white voters flocked to Clinton — by mid January, Obama’s white support had dropped to 22% and Clinton’s rose to 50%.

    But once the controversy faded, Clinton’s all that new support for Clinton disappeared — but it all went to Edwards…Obama wound up with only 24% of the white vote in SC, and IMHO the reason for that was ‘backlash’ — Obama would have done far better with White voters (who were seeing him as a legitimate alternative to Clinton by early January) had it not been for the atrociously ugly “race-boating’ of the Clintons…. but white voters in SC were not about to reward someone who engaged in the kind of ‘race-pimping’ that was done by Team Obama…

  78. Wow, it’s too bad Riverdaughter can’t see WordPress from Work.

    Hope the frontpaging at WordPress gets you’all tons of hits.

  79. they have her headlined as a “hawt site” and her post “Sunday…money” is ranked #28 on top posts on wordpress….

  80. The RNC has $40 million in the bank while the DNC has only $4 million. The best way to hit the DNC now is to let them starve when it comes to money. According to USA Today:

    Rendell, who plans to campaign on Obama’s behalf and raise money for him, said tonight’s event in Philadelphia is a joint fundraiser for Obama and the cash-strapped Democratic National Committee.

    But in a sign of the urgency to raise campaign cash, Rendell said Obama didn’t want to reschedule tonight’s fundraiser, even though the governor warned him that many Philadelphia donors were headed to the New Jersey shore for the weekend. Rendell said Obama told him: “We don’t need the people. We just need the checks.”

    I say if the DNC and Obama send letters asking for money that we send them back with empty envelopes.

  81. they have her headlined as a “hawt site” and her post “Sunday…money” is ranked #28 on top posts on wordpress….

  82. what is a hawt site?

  83. Oh, speaking of money, I received a solicitation from BO.

    A 4-pg letter, color brochure. On the reply card:

    Dear Barack, I agree!
    We are the ones we’ve been waiting for …
    we are the change that we seek.
    You can count on me to support you and our movement for change all the way to the White House.

    Guess it’s the same as what Melanie’s mom received. He actually thinks I might cut him a check for $1,000, LOL.

  84. I think they’re playing on the word “hot”

    Hawt=hot

    HAWT also stands for “have a wonderful time”

  85. hawt=hot? don’t know. who knows what these youngsters mean now-a-days with their x boxes, and their my space, and their obama…..

  86. Paul, another thing to remember here in SC and in NC is NAFTA. That is one ugly word around here and Hillary received the blame, albeit vicariously. South Carolina was big in textiles and North Carolina -furniture. These factories are abandoned now and Bill Clinton is blamed for it. Those voters split Edwards/Clinton.

  87. Of course hawt=hot. That’s how we say it in Boston.

  88. Money is tight with me now, but I just sent Hillary another $10 to help retire her campaign debt. I want her to run again sometime if she so chooses.

    I also went to http://www.justsaynodeal.com and joined. I also e-mailed the Hillary supporters I know and asked them to do the same. Some will.

    NObama 08.

  89. Duh, thanks. I feel stupid now. 😦

  90. hlr: I received the same thing and above the word agree, I wrote dis and posted in huge bright pink letters, Hillary Clinton ’08 and mailed it back.

  91. Actually, hlr, I find that check return card reprehensible. It’s the same sort of thing some broken, poor soul may get from the 700 club.

  92. Good Morning.

    I am glad to be reading all of this here this morning. I think that I recognized clearly in 2000’s election that we were being maneuvered and manipulated. No, no. Make that I recognized it back when I first read that a young woman’s telephone conversation with her “friend” discussing her being intimate with the most effective president we’d had during my lifetime had been taperecorded and made public.

    We the people have been the subject of conniving, planned “dumbing-down,” purposeful “educating”…..for, probably, decades. An ignorant, intrigued citizen is a happy citizen, eh?

    This IS war, now that more and more of us are seeing the trurth. War on the internet, the media, the court, the bank, the voting booth. War of the mind.

    Like the middle & lower classes did in Ireland last week, the manipulation can be withheld. I saw a photo of one overjoyed young man holding up a sign that said “NO to the bullying.”

  93. GET THIS OUT TO MEDIA..

    FROM ISRAEL NEWSPAPER……..AL QUEDA TERRORIST SON IS FUNDRAISER FOR OBAMA. HERE IS THE LINK TO PAPER

    http://israelmatzav.blogspot.com/

  94. Kim — yep, mine’s getting sent back to Chicago as well.

    I used to get a lot of stuff from him early on. After my first $$ to Hillary, I got dropped from his list. Now he’s back.

  95. Melanie: It’s the same sort of thing some broken, poor soul may get from the 700 club.

    Agree. I think it’s odd that they think it might work now — we’re obviously not the types to fall for this nonsense. That also goes for the “We will change Washington” crap in the letter.

  96. I was driving in durham yesterday and saw someone on the side of the road selling Obama paraphanelia (t shirts, posters, etc). It was the kind of fly by night operation like you see in tourist traps like on the mall in DC. The posters were all of Obama giving speeches, mostly looking angry, and in one with an upraised fist. I don’t remember ever seeing anything like that before, it kind of reminds me of how campaigns are run in less industrialized countries where campaigning is a bit more heavy handed. has anyone else seen anything like this?

  97. ” That also goes for the “We will change Washington” crap in the letter.”

    Yup. If I were interested in Bill Bradley’s message, I would have voted for him in ’00.

  98. Rendell said Obama told him: “We don’t need the people. We just need the checks.”
    I bet Rendell was appalled by that statement.

  99. GET THIS OUT TO MEDIA..

    DJ, that kind of stuff (six degrees of Osama bin Laden) is not what this site is about….

  100. But DJ, I’m sure posting it in comments at No Quarter will have the desired effect.

  101. We haven’t had that yet here, but I live in an area that is mixed, and we of course, talk. The blacks have actually said that the “change” will happen and they believe it is for the black race and that things are going to happen, reparation is on the top of the list.

  102. gary — there’s all kinds of weird Obama gear out there.

    Oh, the worst I’ve ever seen is here. Believe it or not, it ran w/ an endorsement in an OR paper!

  103. Hillary won’t gain anything from being a VP. Most of her supporters don’t want her their. Dean and company want her out of the Senate. If God forbid Hillary doesn’t get the nomination, she should remain in the Senate. Why should she help the fraud and the DNC?

  104. ” That also goes for the “We will change Washington” crap in the letter.”

    Oh yeah, they’ll change Washington. It will look real different after they’ve moved all the buildings in Washington DC to Chicago.

    PUMA

  105. It makes me believe that Obama is going to owe so much to a few too many.

  106. Hillary won’t gain anything from being a VP. Most of her supporters don’t want her their. Dean and company want her out of the Senate. If God forbid Hillary doesn’t get the nomination, she should remain in the Senate. Why should she help the fraud and the DNC?

  107. #
    hlr, on June 16th, 2008 at 10:16 am Said:

    pm317 — you, me, honora, a few others, need to figure out a way to get together. I might register some sort of hotmail address and post it for contact purposes.
    ————————-
    Count me in.

  108. Gary, this is the stuff that scares people. Even my son, who does not have a racist bone in his body, suggested we move from the diverse area we are in, to a more rural area.

    Whether anyone wants to admit it, this is a boiling pot, and it is not being watched.

  109. okay I am being thrown into moderation

  110. Gary, a friend of mine in Greensboro who is now also an “undecided Democrat” was talking about this to me the other day. He’s more open to Sen. Obama than me, but he’s entirely open to either McCain or Obama at this point, whomever can “convince” him.

    He’s also a community college prof., and said he noticed a lot of his students (who are mostly AAs) wearing unofficial Obama merchandise. He thought it was “funny” that they chose not to buy it from the campaign, which would actually act as a donation to the “cause” instead of these fly-by-night, selling velvet Elvis paintings in their spare time (…not that there’s anything wrong with that…), operations.

    My $.02 theory is that Obama t-shirts/hats will be the new fad like Malcolm X t-shirts/hats used to be. Most of the people wearing it will not even understand the person they are advertising, the message they are sending, but it’ll just be “cool” to wear. Whatever, I suppose…

  111. Folks, any public office is subject to the Freedom of Information Act. This means that any email, documents, etc. coming from or to a public agency can be accessed. Each state has FOIA and the Federal Government, under each agency, has FOIA. The DNC is probably not a public agency, but a private one. But any emails between senators and the DNC, if they originated from a public office, should be up for grabs unless they fall into a FOIA exclusion. There are two kinds of FOIA requests. Simple requests are free and must be done within 30 days. Complex requests can take much longer, may be be blacked out (I have waited almost 3 years for one) and cost money for photocopying. But if you think carefully about what you want, you can get it.

  112. Why am I being thrown into moderation?

  113. captsfufp — fly-by-night, selling velvet Elvis paintings in their spare time (…not that there’s anything wrong with that…), operations

    Well, see, the campaign only sells ‘safe’ stuff.

    Here’s more agitprop.

  114. kim, I set you free. I think if you use the word racist or racism it automatically puts you in moderation..

  115. Thanks I am sorry, will not use unsafe words. But the feeling here is uneasy and people are talking about it, a lot.

  116. I have not received any solicitations for money either from the DNC or from the Obama campaign, which is interesting considering the fact that I donated significantly to Clinton’s campaign.

    I’ve already decided (it started as a joke, but I’ve adopted it as policy) that when I do begin receiving such solicitations, upon each request, I will make a token $10 donation to McCain and send copies of the electronic receipt to the DNC and the Obama campaign, explaining that each time they request funds from me, I plan on donating to McCain.

    On an only slightly related topic — I would happily send McCain $2300 today if he would agree to thank the DNC for helping him to victory in his November acceptance speech.

  117. Joe: We put our views out there on Huffpost and DailyKos and were either banned or treated poorly. We were called names and worse, so we now have our own sites. We have courage, and you will see the impact.

  118. LOL, Joe. Barry and his DNC followers are embracing opposing views by not putting Hillary’s name on the first ballot.

  119. There is no if in my mind, they did and RCIO may well apply…. my Republican friend says the same thing now, they were given the okie dokie and ended up with Bush…..that’s a clear warning no Party stooges ever again… for any reason 4,100 US troops and tens of thousands of innocent Iraqi’s are dead because of that last con……and Party SHEEPeople

    I’m not sure what the Clinton’s plan on next, but founding another Party sounds RIGHT the Dem Party is controlled by con men, the rules committee is non diverse in relationship to the Party and I will never ever become a member ever and no way Obama, my registration stays only because of State Law I will change next primary officially.

    Keep in mind why Dems lost REALLY lost Congress in the 90’s another Il. Player , a Pelosi buddy, Representative Daniel David “Dan” Rostenkowski….

  120. keep laughing joe, but we are not amused. see ya…

  121. This post is spot on. I’ve been thinking about this for a long time. If, as it seems to be, this nomination was predetermined, then any of us who contributed to any of the Democratic presidential hopefuls’ campaigns has been defrauded. We’ve been duped by our own party.

  122. Kim — you should fix your url associated w/ your login id (get rid of the @)

  123. http://www.popmatters.com/pm/news/article/42612/chicago-is-heart-brain-center-of-obama-campaign/

    Check this out from Rezkowatch –second diary down this am. Basically, he’s working off Anglachel’s post. Note the number of Kerry workers this early for Obama and I had read somewhere else (Rezkowatch I think) about an early Dean connection to Obama through internet workeres. Guess this can be explained away as just Dems supporting other Dems but for me, there are too many to be a coincidence.

  124. I think the fix has been in since Jan/Feb. The MSM anointed him after his Feb run and the DNC swallowed it hook, line and sinker. O. convinced the DNC he could bring in new states (they fell for the Carter myth that there are no red states/blue states) and he convinced them he had a mass of new voters and money.

    And he pushed hard to say ‘I won I won’ as she was blowing him away in the fourth quarter. By the time he decided to declare himself the winner after Kentucky/Oregon there was no turning back for the DNC. They certainly weren’t going to let it go to convention.

    And now the DNC is in a world of hurt.

    Go PUMA!

  125. I just spoke with some poor barricaded creature in the Chairman’s office who refused to give her name about the move to Chicago. She said that most of the political staff and some of the financial staff is moving but that the base of operations will remain in Washington DC. She said that staff going out into the field is normal but most presidential campaigns have their base in DC – so there is no move to be made. Obama, however, has his campaign based in Chicago so the move is more apparent.

    She also referred me to a press release on the DNC site where they announced this, but I can’t find it.

    I mentioned the PUMA movement and her voice dropped an octive. She knew who we were and didn’t sound happy about it though she said nothing negative.

    It was very weird talking to her. She sounded like someone under seige rather than someone excited about a campaign. I wonder what the morale is like at the DNC right now.

  126. Btw, I got (last week) three solicitation calls from Obama people, almost in a row. After telling them what I thought–yes, I was mad, they have stopped now. But, over the weekend, my husband got an e-mail from our local party saying that Obama was going to be here this Fri. (Jacksonville, Fl.) . They were having a fundraiser ($500 a plate) for him..won’t get many takers here.

    I think this DNC thing is fraud, pure and simple and maybe could be addressed under civil rights law? maybe-does Jeralynn know about this?

  127. hlr: it will not allow me to replace the @ with a dot

  128. MSNBC – 11:30 Eastern – PUMA Will Bower

  129. When you start talking lawsuits, you are talking about taking on a huge organization, with attorneys at their disposal. And if you are talking about contributions, that would probably have to be a class action, with each contributor listed as a Plaintiff. If he is the nominee through the DNC/RBC decision, then tthe premise that the contribution did not go to the correct candidate may be moot.

  130. I think the fix was in before the primary. Their all plan was based on playing the race card. That explains the memo the Obama camp sent out to the media about words that might be perceived as racist from Hillary’s camp.

  131. The DNC move to Chicago story is somewhere on the MSNBC site (I found it by Google… ) but the story says that obama has decided to “keep Dean” as head of the DNC. WTF?

    So, Dean’s employment was dependent on obama? I wonder who else has employment with the DNC that depends on obama. Complete mess!

  132. I began to suspect something was beginning to rot within the party when supers started coming out way beforehand, before many states had left to vote, and declaring for Obama. Particularly here in MA, a state that went to Hillary in the primary yet Kennedy and Kerry declared for him.

    We cannot afford an Obama election. Not sure what I can do to change this but would rather see a McCain win regardless of how much his positions go against my principles then to approve of this “takeover” by unprincipled people within the DNC.

    Dribbles and drabs of his unsavory associations, particularly with Black Power and separatism leave me very uncomfortable.

  133. Dean is going under the bus real soon.

  134. Check out this article concerning George Soros by Edward Cline http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=5207. Also, the Republicans and Democrats work together in the Chicago Combine. Evelyn Pringle has an excellent series of articles detailing the links of corruption between the two parties and how they run Chicago politics. And get very, very rich.

  135. jjm: My understanding is that you must run for election for the title of DNC Chairman. I remember when Dean ran for that office he had opposition and some openly opposed his nomination. Not sure how often they run or how long the term is but I would guess every 4 years?

  136. Dean forgot to get the PitneyBowes machine indicia plate changed to the new Chicago address. He must be fired for such an over sight.

  137. Riverdaughter, thx for going to TM and telling her that she just doesn’t get it. I was trying to post over there and it appears it crashed. That’s one ugly cartoon and she should be ashamed of perpetuating stereotypes of older women.

  138. The party is banking on the fact that McCain is such an unacceptable candidate, that following 8 years of Bush/Cheney, that signing up new voters, will all guarantee a November win with Obama. I believe that is why they staged this chancy candidacy during this election.

    It was a perfect way to eliminate the Clinton’s and introduce Mr. Do Nothing to the scene as the first black candidate and appear liberal while assuaging white guilt.

    I just wonder if the DNC knew just what they were getting in the Faustian bargain with the Chicago machine.

  139. Lori, on June 16th, 2008 at 11:22 am Said:
    I just spoke with some poor barricaded creature in the Chairman’s office who refused to give her name about the move to Chicago. She said that most of the political staff and some of the financial staff is moving but that the base of operations will remain in Washington DC. She said that staff going out into the field is normal but most presidential campaigns have their base in DC – so there is no move to be made. Obama, however, has his campaign based in Chicago so the move is more apparent.

    ——————————

    Lori, like you, I can’t locate anything on the press release page about this move.

    I want to know the timing of this decision and this move. I want to know when the first person, the first business card, paperclip and piece of letterhead was/will be relocated. I agree with Anglachel. I’ve just overseen the move of a unit — a small one at that — and it takes a great deal of time and planning. It’s not a snap decision.

    I also want to know whose idea this was.

  140. Pat Johnson – The neoliberals fail to see the world from anything other than their own perspective. McCain is actually a good Republican candidate.

    The Neoliberals think that they can scare people away from McCain by “tying him to Bush” but that won’t work. Their Hillary hate blinded them to the fact that people are not as simplisitic as they are.

    They really out to go out there and meet some new people. And they should stop calling Americans stupid.

    PUMA

  141. My mother just got off the phone with someone from the DNC this morning. She literally cursed them the fuck out, especially about the recently bigoted “knitting” comment by Rahm (Yes, it’s bigoted, damn it. As a Latino, I find it easier to call it for what it is than many women–especially white ones–seem to.). My mom couldn’t believe the nerve of Rahm who epitomizes the DNC. These fools are so blinded by their nonsense they don’t even realize they’re sabotaging themselves.

    Listen, first of all,l many men, such as myself, strongly backed Clinton because, quite frankly, it was no contest between her and Obama. Second, bigotry is inexcusable no matter who the targeted group is (Newsflash: women and girls are human beings, asshats!). Lastly, political smarts demand you not to antagonize “your” voters, especially if many of them are still rightfully pissed about a stolen nomination.

    God, what a cruel joke this has all been.

  142. Oh, Pat’s comment about Kennedy reminded me the fix was started from the beginning with Brazile – extra delegates here, no delegates there, convention on day of MLK’s speech, etc.

  143. Here’s the quote about Obama deciding to keep Howard Dean:

    http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/06/12/dnc-moving-operations-to-chicago/

    “After winning the nomination, Obama decided to keep Howard Dean on as chairman of the DNC, and sent over senior aide Paul Tewes to oversee the collaboration.”

    Same story, as of June 12, DNC spokeswoman Karen Finney tells CNN that they’ve begun the transition.

  144. What is Donna Brazile supposed to get? The chairmanship of the DNC?

    Howard Dean, here comes the bus. Assume the position.

    PUMA

  145. Taylor Marsh does not get it. SHe thinks it is all about people being mad at the way Hillary was treated. She just doesn’t seem to understand or she is being purposely obtuse. The issue is the Democratic process was completely short-circuited, as well as corrupted by the DNC to give the nomination to Obama. I cannot at this point just go along to get along, and vote for a candidate because there is a D there. WHat does the D mean after all we have seen this primary. NOTHING. IT means absolutely nothing.

    There will be no real CHANGE in anything the Democrats come up with after November.

  146. I am very interested in all ways to publicize a stolen Democratic primary and to take back the Democratic Party — blogging, media presentations, boycotting MSM advertizers, writing local newspapers, law suits, organized events. This deal between the corporations, Obamarxist (this is a new one for me, formerly it was BO), and authoritarian loser-leftists has been both outrageous and illegal. If we cannot restorie democracy to the Democratic Party, then let us see what we can do to move the Republican Party to the center and reform its hitherto defrauding elephant a$$.

    We probably have a good idea that McCain would be nowhere close to being the candidate of the Repubs if their moneyed powers-that-be had not forseen that he was the only one with a prayer of a chance to stop a Dem presidential bid. They were scared shitless about losing Pres, Rep, and Sen in 2008.

    If Hillary does not prevail in August — if Democratic Party powers do not see what a nothing, a fraud, and a loser the current presumptuous nominee is — then let’s turn our sweet and handsome smiling faces at the Republicans and help John McCain make something out of them/us. Remember Theodore Roosevelt.

  147. Why did they even bother with primaries? They should have just done what Saddam, Fidel, and the Politburo have done over the years: put up a name and declare 100% victory. It would have saved lots of time, money, energy, sorrow.

    Not sure where this country is heading but it does not look good. I see a lot of problems and protests in Denver. No matter how they spin it this party will come out more divided after August then the split we are witnessing at present.

  148. If this isn’t the craziest! Republicans are the Pumas too! I found one and look at this cute art, and Hillary’s picture…

    http://republicanfeminist.blogspot.com/

    (scroll down past you know who and you’ll see Hillary)

    this hijack to another city? Is that done? I thought all politics came from Washington DC — I mean isn’t that the capital? Geez.
    file this under “new knowledge”— Repubs were suffragettes — !
    Trust me, I need to really look into who they are to see— I will
    I’m actually a green, but that party never wins yet — I love their values the most and Dems used to seem like that.

  149. TM has removed the cartoon from her website.

  150. Good can come out of this. We can finally get rid of the Stevensonians. No more loser egg-head candidates.

    There are lots of moderates who want to break away for the lunatic-fringe dominated Republican party.

    It will take a long time, but it’s worth the effort. I wear comfortable shoes, and my back is strong.

    PUMA

  151. Alice,

    The concern that Anglachel is addressing is that the DNC itself is moving to Chicago. That is not the case – at least, according to the young woman that I spoke with.

    The DNC will remain in Washington DC. The political staff and some of the financial staff will move to Chicago while Obama’s campaign is running. Her point is that this is normal – and I think she’s right about that. I’ve worked on campaigns where staff from the DNC has flown in to assist.

    The base of DNC operations will remain in DC. They will have a subsidiary office in Chicago through the election.

    Most striking was how unhappy she sounded.

  152. jjmtacoma Said:
    The DNC move to Chicago story is somewhere on the MSNBC site (I found it by Google… ) but the story says that obama has decided to “keep Dean” as head of the DNC. WTF?

    So, Dean’s employment was dependent on obama?
    _______________

    To me this seems to indicate some confirmation on my suspection that Soros or other big funders have been having a big ($$) deal in stirring this pie for their own purposes. Now, I’m just waiting to see if the expected big funder abandonment, for their continued own purposes clearly happens. God, I hope so.

  153. LOL – Arabella,

    We cant’ win without the Stevensonians. it’s the coalition that gives us the majority.

  154. Wow, Taylor sure has become an Obamabot. She says polls show Obama having no problem with Hill arupporters? Uh, ok. They are tied nationally, while generic Dem vs. generic Repub is 20 points ahead. Then, she thinks we’ll be impressed he’s going after the evangelical vote? Please.

  155. Hi Lori — I think Anglachel is correctly emphasizing the timing issue. For this move to have been in the hands of spokespeople by June 12, it must have been in the works, legally-financially-logistically for longer than a week. Which is to say, there must have been an intention to do this before the primaries were over. The implications of that are rather mind-boggling.

  156. I have seen several comments from republican women speaking out about the treatment of Hillary. Of course, they are taking advantage of an opportunity left on the table by the DNC.

  157. OK, if they are keeping the bulk of the DNC operations in DC, why are they saying/implying that they’re moving the DNC to Chicago? This is another example of Obama’s bully propaganda. (Ibought ’em, I own ’em and it’s all gonna at my home base.”

    Lots of big talk. As if such bloviating is going to scare us into surrendering. He must think that the word “Chicago” is like the brown note from the cr*p cannon. As if “Chicago” is a symbol of toughness. He even mis-used the quote from “The Untouchables” the other day about bringing a gun to a fight if your opponent brings a knife.

    What a ridiculous man.

  158. Have you seen this yet ?? .. I have not read it all – two pages .. seems to be worth a read …

    The Fall and Rise of Hillary Clinton

    http://nymag.com/news/politics/47837/index1.html

    g. morning Everyone .. !

  159. I keep going back to check on TM and see if for once she can be totally honest about her motives.

    She can’t, there is no fence to straddle here. The pathetic attempts to do so, are only p**sing off her former readers, who apparently she regards as too stupid to figure out whatever it is she peddles now.

    I have been silent and have tried not to trash her but today’s post really peed me off. It is not up to Hillary to make us vote for BO, that is up to HIM. I am from Ohio and BO has figured he can win without us, great makes my decision to skip that and go down ticket seem like the right one.

    They have allowed this neophyte to basically take over the party because he has figured out a way to raise obscene amounts of cash. That is it and that is all.

    What mawm said about the “D” meaning nothing is the crux of it.

  160. Arabella — what is a “stevensonian”

  161. Someone ask Taylor if Obama has reached out to her yet.

  162. I don’t have anything nice to say about Taylor Marsh. Therefore, I won’t say anything at all.

    Oops. I guess I just did;)

  163. All I can say about Taylor is:

    She isn’t about causes. She’s about getting as far as she can get with whoever is going that way.

    Shallow,superficial, self-centered, and not all that bright.

  164. Well, I just reread Ben Smith’s article and it is damning. It’s certainly doesn’t reflect how it was just represented to me on the phone.

    http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0608/Obama_moves_DNC_operations_to_Chicago.html

    n a major shakeup at the Democratic National Committee — and a departure from tradition — large parts of the committee’s operations are relocating to Chicago to be fully integrated with the Obama campaign.

    The DNC’s political department, housed in Washington, D.C., will be dramatically rebuilt, with staffers offered a choice of moving to Chicago, joining state operations, or staying in Washington, DNC spokeswoman Karen Finney said.

    But the power will clearly be shifting to a centralized Chicago hub.

    The DNC’s key role in coordinating political operations with state parties is expected to largely be taken over and overseen by Obama’s senior staff in Chicago, state party officials said.

    “This is part of the implementation of the plans Paul [Tewes] discussed last week with the state party chairs,” Finney said. “As part of the efforts to fully integrate DNC operations with the Obama campaign here in Washington, in Chicago and in the states, political, field and constituency operations are moving to Chicago to work in the Obama headquarters. The goal is to consolidate these efforts into one operation and effectively drive one national strategy.”

    People familiar with the plan said that state party staffers paid for under Howard Dean’s 50 State Program would be shifted to working for the presidential campaign, at least in targeted battleground states.

    The move reflects Obama’s desire to maintain an unusually streamlined campaign, as well as his swift and complete takeover of a Democratic Party that isn’t always known for its unity. The move may also save the campaign money, as the Obama camp

  165. Pat, I do not know what you are talking about. I was just there and the cartoon is still up.

    Someone over there said Hillary is going to introduce a bill in Congress to have a stretch of highway named after Russert. Ironic, no?

  166. vbon – That’s a term Anglachel uses in her extended discussion of the Democratic Party. I don’t want to state it incorrectly, but she sees it as the “academic branch” (Adlai Stevenson) versus the Jacksonian branch.

    It’s more complex than this. Read Anglachel – she’s great!

  167. Melanie; I will go back and look. I did not see it.

  168. Melanie; I have no idea what happened. When I went in I swear to God it was not there. Now I see it.

  169. Bonita –

    Someone ask Taylor if Obama has reached out to her yet.

    Ha ha! The fact that DefeatoCrat Taylor Marsh mentioned there has been “no reach out from the Obama camp” tells me that she is all about herself.

    One of the newly welcomed obamaborg assured Taylor that somebody would be “getting back to her soon.”

    I cannot forgive her for turning on a dime.

  170. Obama does not need TM. Her bloggers now consist of a few Hillary supporters but mostly “let’s unite the party” types. She made her bed now she must sleep in it. Her blog kept pointing out his deficiencies compared to Hillary. If she is to be believed, she should have just stayed with the Hillary theme and not bash him if her whole aim was to support whoever the nominee happened to be.

    Now she is stuck with her own hypocrisy. You cannot demean a candidate one day then turn around the next and beat the band for him. This is probably why the campaign has not reached out to her. They don’t need her.

  171. My understanding is that the presumptive nominee is officially the head of the party and could get rid of Dean. Perhaps he can’t because they are all in too deep. Something like this cannot stay buried for long, it will all come out, but will we let it go?

    Lets face it guys, we still do not know who really won in ’00, we haven’t stood up and had our voices heard. I do not want to just sit back and see my vote, as well as your votes, roll over into the Daley machine.

    Sure we can vote for McCain, but do you want to? The time to make noise is now, right NOW! If Hillary is forced to release her delegates, we are stuck with Obama or McCain, do you really want that. We have between now and August to create a really big (sorry) shitstorm and I say tell me what to do and a focus froup ain’t it.

  172. Thanks Arabella! I will. You know, this thing just really makes me so damn mad!—-

    here’s an op-ed I just read, on a Dancer Type & Hillary off Boston.com

    http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2008/06/16/hillary_clinton_my_not_so_evil_twin/

  173. I spent time last weekend arguing directly with TM. Every point I made, she told me I didn’t get it. Hillary wants us to blah, blah, blah…….

    I told her that I saw the same look in Hillary’s eye as all hostages have, whether it was from a terrorist holding someone in Iraq or from a helpless domestic abuse victim.

    Taylor, we get it. We just aren’t buying it and not spreading it.

    Principal is not for sale, neither is my vote. A lesson needs to be taught and punishment applied.

    Democracy 1st
    America 1st
    President Hillary Rodham Clinton 1st

  174. I remember when TM was discussing Byrd’s endorsement of Obama, and she said IT WAS ABOUT THE WAR. Byrd is and was a huge advocate against the war in Iraq.

    Byrd himself said that it was a “key factor” (and in fact listed other factors) but TM nixed any discussion of possible other express factors as well as probable unspoken ones (e.g. Byrd’s past egregious conduct).

    It was at that point that I realized that TM thinks that she is g-d, and therefore can glean the motives of a man she does not even know. That’s not even addressing the complexity of human motivations–which methinks TM would not quite grasp even if handed to her in an Obama bouquet.

    Okay, I promise no more dis’ing TM now:)

  175. vbonnaire, on June 16th, 2008 at 12:16 pm Said:
    Arabella — what is a “stevensonian”

    It refers to Adlai Stevenson, the Dem candidate for ’52 and ’58 and the first egg head loser of the type we have known for the last 50 years. He wasn’t that good a campaigner and the Dem party put him up against Eisenhower TWICE and I believe Stevenson was running again in ’60 for the nomination yet again. However Stevenson at least had actual accomplishments as a Gov of IL, unlike BO.

  176. It’s always best to have principles and to stand by them.

  177. Anglachel and I are on the same wavelength! I posted on this on Friday.

    The timing issue is the crux of the matter to me. I am an IT project manager, and there is absolutely no way to move the political and GOTV arms of the DNC to Chicago without six months to a year of careful planning.

    The fix has been in for that long. Believe it and know it. We have been bamboozled, hoodwinked and okie-doked into thinking that our votes mattered. They didn’t. Nothing could have prevented this so-called “victory” by Obama.

    The thing is…he hasn’t won yet.

    I got his creepy mailer and sent it back to him with “P.U.M.A.” in big black letters all over it. And…I used his own postage-paid envelope. . 🙂

  178. KIM—————YES!!!!

  179. I love the part on Taylor’s latest post where she admits that Obama played dirty, but she wants to win so what the F.

    Also, she quotes the NBC poll to say that Clinton supporters are going to Obama

    An NBC/Wall Street Journal poll found a wide gap last week: Women favored Obama over McCain, 52% to 33%. The survey also found that voters who cast ballots for Clinton in the Democratic primaries preferred Obama over McCain, 61% to 19%.

    She obviously cannot understand what she reads.

    If we are to believe this poll, of people who voted for Clinton, %19 now support McCain and 20% are undecided. HELLO? That is %39 percent of Clinton supporters that won’t back the presumtuous nominee. She claims to be an analyst. On what planet does that spell good fortune for Obama, when over 1 in 3 Clinton voters won’t commit to Obama now, and 1 in 5 are in McCain’s camp?

    Does she think that just because he gets more of Clinton voter support that that is good. She couldn’t even see past the haka of the LATimes. What an analyst.

    Then there is the endless EGO rantings:

    I had Clinton’s back earlier than most. Stood up when others did not. Was vilified across the web for it. People are fickle.

    Blah, Blah, Blah I did this. I did that. Stop sending me hate mail, Please help me get a radio gig. 🙂

    What a joke!

  180. Carol, on June 16th, 2008 at 12:35 pm Said:
    ….Taylor, we get it. We just aren’t buying it and not spreading it. Principal is not for sale, neither is my vote. A lesson needs to be taught and punishment applied…

    Well put! And it’s about time. The Dem base has been waaayy too forgiving when told time and time again, ” we will fight Bush next time” ….and next time NEVER came. That’s why the idea we HAVE to vote for BO because of Roe /Wade is laughable. The Dem congress would hand over R/W tomorrow if the GOP asked for it….

    Also what TM doesn’t get is she had a niche, it brought her some fame…she mistakenly thought this fame was for her and she could do with it as she saw fit. ( reminds me of the DNC! ) well Nada and as it as been said , the BO forces don’t need her, they just needed her to come over. Mission accomplished. She has only herself to blame believing their lies of support .

  181. @ tpt/ny: Bless your heart, but there is no longer ANY chance for Hillary this year, if there ever was. Riverdaughter’s post is all about why. The fix is and has been in. The DNC is a shell company for the corrupt ObamaCo organization.

  182. I am just so done with acceptance of being walked over. I was walked over in ’00, again in ’04, but most of us, me included, said well what can I do? Mawm and Gary went to DC, they took action. This site has a million hits. Maybe not all are Hillary supporters, and a lot are returning bloggers. But I bet, even a hundred thousand in some sort of coordinated effort would get attention. Have a damn postcard with a puma on it and everyone send one in to the DNC, MSNBC, FOX and CNN. We have to get attention now, before it is too late and we are stuck for four more years.

  183. Palomino: There have been many fights on the convention floor. Many. And until she releases those delegates, by God I will not say it is over.

  184. Palomino, so you are saying once again we will sit on our sofas and whine about how we were robbed and do nothing? If that is the case, then f!#k it, why vote, why even come here?

  185. I say if the DNC and Obama send letters asking for money that we send them back with empty envelopes.

    Not empty–enclose a pack of Kool-Aid, preferably orange.

  186. I can not believe the troll infestation at Taylor’s site. I will not be going back there.

  187. Well, my comments at Taylor Marsh got taken down.

    It is really important to sanitize the comments there, because we wouldn’t want to dispel the UNITY facade.

    I won’t bother with that place in the future.

  188. unity and progressive have become the two most misused words in the english language.

    Check out this AP piece:
    news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080615/ts_alt_afp/usvotewivesrecipe_080615080232

    Is it me? The patriarchy seems so passe these days.

  189. Mawm: You were on the conference call and yes, I read what happened yesterday. Are we going to do something?

  190. I had just realized:
    SCREW BOTH PARTIES! I’ll use them as my tool to empower
    women, voters, people against power hungry hacks
    http://edgeoforever.wordpress.com/2008/06/16/party-politics-so-yesterday-its-women-power-now/

  191. Where’s the bounce AP finally ask, NO BOUNCE …..and that the DNC and Dems belived there would be and are frankly shocked……lordy

  192. BTD has a great post about Hillary taking on sexism in the media:

    http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/6/16/11956/6797#61

  193. vbonnaire, on June 16th, 2008 at 12:35 pm Said:
    Thanks Arabella! I will. You know, this thing just really makes me so damn mad!—-
    here’s an op-ed I just read, on a Dancer Type & Hillary off Boston.com
    http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2008/06/16/hillary_clinton_my_not_so_evil_twin/

    Now years later, I realize, my aversion to being Hillary had nothing to do with Hillary, after all. It came from my own need to be liked, which for me was more important than to be seen as a leader pioneering new territory – the way Hillary did. That role has always belonged to her – a fearless mold-breaker. My path may never cross hers, and she will never know how so not like her I’ve spent the last decade being. But as the historians hit the keyboards, I’m starting to get a twinge of regret. Maybe I should have taken another look in the mirror.

    Thanks for posting this link. I think it probably explains some of the virulent attacks by some women on Hillary – the discomfort with being disliked by association. “Don’t hate *me*, I’m nothing like her”. The truth is that many women identify deeply with her. And they finally feel comfortable saying it.

  194. Another great BTD post: Hillary the Icon:

    http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/6/16/103943/640#101

  195. Palomino,
    I did not realize that RD was saying that there is a brick wall in front of us. She seemed to be just analyzing what we’ve got here, now.

    One of the biggest fights at a Party convention was for FDR, who was not wanted by many members, and not expected to have a chance—and look what happened there. Hillary has as much of a chance as he did, with a massive backup behind her.

    These are issues worth fighting for, no matter how hopeless things look. If you let them go, what the hell have you got?

  196. For those of you who do not want to visit Taylor Marsh’s site (and I understand completely — her commenters number 1/3 of what they used to be, and most of them are Obama supporters who want to drive the last of the Hillary supporters off the site) — here is the cartoon Taylor saw fit to post as her lead to a story about us “deadenders.”

    The whole article by Taylor was insulting and demeaning. Taylor’s comments in the comment section were even worse, but the cartoon really infuriated me!

  197. @ Kim:

    There have been many fights on the convention floor.

    From your keyboard to God’s cr*p cannon!

  198. Kim, short answer is yes. There were many people on the call, who have not given up on Hillary’s candidacy, and getting her nominated in August. No one is delusion. They know it is a looong shot. Others felt that it was more important to help McCain than to help Hillary now, because they believe there is NO chance for her, and they are committed to defeating Obama.
    My opinion is that having two groups, one supporting McCain, and the other working for an open convention and a real floor vote with Hillary on the ballot, makes for a good assault on Obama. Making him into the illegitimate nominee, in my opinion, would do just as much damage as campaigning for McCain now. And for me at least, I see this as a greater struggle for Democracy. Hillary won the popular vote, and almost every other metric of the nomination race. In a truly Democratic race she would be the winner.
    So, a lot of these groups will come at this from different angles. My personal angle is to get Super delegates on video explaining why they won’t cast their vote for the people’s choice. I believe YOUTUbe is a very powerful resource, and I would love to shine a light on the back room dealings. Also, I would like to get people to get themselves on Local TV news saying they were Democrats, but would not vote BO.
    I am working hard to get my website up and running. It is almost there, but I don’t want to give out the URL until I am ready. I thought that would be last night, but I may be looking at Tuesday.
    This weekend Gary and I are going to the NC State convention to see if we can get elected to something, or at least meet people and get contact info.
    We are going to Pride at the end of June in NYC. We will be protesting and handing out literature.
    I will let you all know when my site is up.

  199. And me? I want to be a part of the group that exposes the reasons and ways Obama is unelectable.

    I think that VERY few people understand how thin his resume is. (for one thing)

    I know that The Summer of Revelations will be important.

  200. Is there anyone who can investigate where Obama got the money to buy off the super delegates, if he indeed did so? How much more money did he pay than Hillary?

    Where does George Soros’ money fit in?

    Seems the “Nation” has been too busy jumping on the Obama bandwagon to do any work. A politically savvy friend told me that an “Atlantic Monthly” article about Obama early in the primary process was the basis for his eliminating Obama from the Democratic lineup–he supported Hillary).

    Didn’t Obama vote for Cheney’s energy bill? Exxelon over the safe drinking water of his constituents? What exactly has he done for the majority of his South Side constituents? What about the ones who were already wealthy?

    Why did Rezko (a known slumlord) come first? A beloved politician should be able to get enough support from the people, not sell them out to Rezko and his ilk.

  201. These days Taylor Marsh is tap-dancing double-time, with a fixed smile, like a corporate middle manager whose boss was just fired after a hostile takeover and merger.

    Mawm: My opinion is that having two groups, one supporting McCain, and the other working for an open convention and a real floor vote with Hillary on the ballot, makes for a good assault on Obama. Making him into the illegitimate nominee, in my opinion, would do just as much damage as campaigning for McCain now. . . . Hillary won the popular vote, and almost every other metric of the nomination race. In a truly Democratic race she would be the winner.

    Yes! I did not mean to suggest that there are no reasons to continue pushing for Hillary as the nominee. There is nothing I would like better, and I would love to see a knock-down, drag-out fight on the convention floor, with Hillary emerging victorious, as she already is IMO. I’m just saying that, given what appear to be the realities, especially the deep corruption of the DNC and the dishonesty of the nominating , that outcome appears unlikely. But I don’t need to say that here.

  202. I mistrust anyone who can turn on a dime. That is sheer hypocrisy by any measure. Maybe there is still a glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel, who knows, but the number of us who are intent on at least exposing what has occurred in this primary needs to be fought to the bitter end.

    When a massive movement to support an unqualified and inexperienced candidate began to take shape I felt then that the fix was in. How could pundits, reporters, super delegates, stand so firmly behind this empty suit and let charges of racism against the Clinton’s go unchallenged? Yet each time Hillary opened her mouth they surged forward to villify her collectively. It made no sense unless you stepped back and asked “why”.

    The question should be posed: just what is in it for those who scrambled aboard so willingly. I doubt the answer is not pretty.

  203. The cartoon is exemplary of the rampant “they’re all old bitter women” perception of PUMAs.

    Meanwhile, we are young/old, male/femle, gay/straight, of all colors/shapes/sizes, PhDs & HS grads, well-to-do & lunch bucket types, a.k.a. the formerly known as BIg Tent Democrats.

    We are definitely being hoodwinked and bamboozled – and thanks to PUMAs all over & Just Say No Deal, we are letting the world know that our dissent is massive
    and concrete.

    Our dissent isn’t even about Hillary anymore, it’s about the O-borg takeover & lying, cheating stealing votes.

    This is worse than Watergate. Nixon’s a toddler in training pants compared to the O-borg.

  204. Mawm, that is INCREDIBLE! Please let us know when you have your site up.

    If there is anyway we can chip in on a donation or two, please post a Paypal button.

    Not even M.A.C. Lipstick can fix the O-borg pig. God bless you & we are with you all the way!

  205. I didn’t check all the comments, so my apologies if this is a duplicate.

    Please check out this link from the Hillary Clinton website. Make sure you have a box of tissues nearby.

    http://www.hillaryclinton.com/feature/book/?sc=1898&utm_source=1898&utm_medium=e

  206. If Obama carried the qualifications and experience as a Dodd or Biden into the race our protests would probably be no more than sour grapes that our candidate had lost. But he does not even come close. We are being asked to take a chance on handing over the government to someone with less experience than any other candidate who has ever reached the nomination.

    There is no “there” there. It is like a Hollywood movie. “The Candidate” comes to mind. The very end of the movie, after he has won, the candidate is pictured in the back seat of a car asking, “what now?”. This to me is a summarization of the what we can expect with an Obama win. Should not happen.

  207. SM,
    I was thinking about diversity when I was on the JSND conf call last night. It seemed like there was a real diversity there too.

  208. CB, on June 16th, 2008 at 1:26 pm Said:
    Is there anyone who can investigate where Obama got the money to buy off the super delegates, if he indeed did so? How much more money did he pay than Hillary?

    There was a thread not too long ago here on the Confluence citing how much money went to each superdelegate donated by the O-borg.

    Sen. Robert Byrd, who was a Hillary Supporter and who won his state, received $93,000 and then shortly after, Byrd flipped to the O-borg. It’s disgusting.

  209. Thanks mawm, I realize it is a long shot, but those long shots pay off the most with a win.

  210. SM,
    when the site is ready, the best thing people can do for it is find their way to their local representatives and get them on VIDEO! Who knows what will come out of their mouths.

  211. Mawm, on June 16th, 2008 at 1:36 pm Said:
    SM,
    I was thinking about diversity when I was on the JSND conf call last night. It seemed like there was a real diversity there too.

    The Democratic Party (pre-the O-borg) is about DIVERSITY and anyone who is against that, IMO, shouldn’t be called “Democrat.” I’m happy to hear that JSND is embracing that.

  212. Kim, and just let yourself think for a moment about what it would mean to get her the nomination. It would be the biggest upset in American Political herstory.

    When you look at the benefit/ cost ratio, it is astronomical.

  213. Guys, how do we donate to HRC now? Her site has “support Senator Obama” If I donate will it go to HRC? Thanks!

  214. Mawm, on June 16th, 2008 at 1:38 pm Said:
    SM,
    when the site is ready, the best thing people can do for it is find their way to their local representatives and get them on VIDEO! Who knows what will come out of their mouths.

    That is great! I love it! It’s citizen journalism. I have to go get a camcorder!

  215. Hillary just sent out a new e mail of pictures from the campaign.

    There is a “contribute” link in that e mail.

  216. Has everyone signed up at JustSayNoDeal.com ? They are sending out action items. I just got one about a call to action to support a Clinton supporter who is being pilloried on the net.

    This is psyops warfare. I’m sure I don’t have to tell you all that, because you know what has been going on.

  217. short note alot has happened in last 12 hours and we are picking up steam has anyone looked in to RICO charges against DNC/Obama for America?

    Love Fuzzybeargville

    when I get home may need a summary of what is happening is thee anyone in the Gainesville Fl area I can network with?

  218. Sorry Michael I am in South Carolina

  219. Pat Johnson, on June 16th, 2008 at 1:28 pm Said:

    When a massive movement to support an unqualified and inexperienced candidate began to take shape I felt then that the fix was in. How could pundits, reporters, super delegates, stand so firmly behind this empty suit and let charges of racism against the Clinton’s go unchallenged? Yet each time Hillary opened her mouth they surged forward to villify her collectively. It made no sense unless you stepped back and asked “why”.

    It defied logic in a way that was mind boggling. That Hillary was still able to win in spite of all that was against her is a testament to her strength as a candidate and person of real substance. The only way they could beat her was by outright cheating.

  220. I think I did but I havent got any emails from them-

    fuzzybeargville

  221. oneof18million,

    I don’t think that Senator Obama CAN put Hillary’s name on the ballot. I seriously think that she ran such a negative, old style campaign that it would conflict with his message to do so.

    I think that if she had taken a different tack, it would be very different. I think that he would very much like to put her name on the ballot, but can’t.

    I was hoping that Senator Clinton would be the nominee, to begin with, but was turned off by the manner in which she ran her campaign.

    I really wish that it had been different because it would be a powerful ticket, but after all that has happened, it’s difficult to see how he could.

    Perhaps you could explain how you think that would work, I just don’t see it.

  222. I signed up at Just Say No Deal last night and I haven’t gotten an update yet.

    Michael,Gainsville? Great! I’m in Tampa – I know that Murphy’s PUMAPac may have more info in terms of networking etc.

    Also, Florida Demands Representation may have info too.

  223. 3rd try?

    Just saw this on yahoo:

    http://tinyurl.com/6q8kny

  224. Well, the Daily News told us – sorta – on May 8:

  225. Joe,
    you must have bought into the Obama propaganda that HIllary ran a negative campaign. She did not. In fact, some of us wanted her to go negative on Obama and she never did.
    Obama did, however, play the race card on Clinton time and time again in states with high persentages of AAs.

    Obama successfully ran a dirty campagin, but with the help of the media made it look like he was innocent. You must have not been following the race closely, becaue everyone who did saw through his charade. Even people who still support Obama acknowledge his use of the race-card. However, they seem to like that their guy plays dirty, and throws race relations back about 30 years.

  226. Sweetie Software Alert!

    Our friend “Joe” is back – now posed as a concern troll.

    What happened, did the O-borg told you to come back? Didn’t you tell them that you last missions to recruit failed?

  227. Joe,

    I’m happy to explain. Clinton supporters are deeply offended by the egregious level of overt bigotry engaged in by the low lifes running Obama’s campaign – including Obama and his garbage scow of a wife. We’d prefer not to have any reason to vote for someone that corrupted, that dirty, that bigoted and that inexperienced. However, should he put Clinton on the ticket and agree to let her handle universal healthcare in her name, we would likely vote for him and he could expand the number of states he can hope to win.. of course, giving her healthcare would require Obama to distance himself from his corporate sponsors so we aren’t expecting him to do so. It would. however, pretty much guarantee he wins if he did.

  228. Curiouser and curiouser –

    I donated to HRC and received this acknowledgement:

    “Dear XXXXXX,

    Thank you for your generous contribution. We are at a critical stage in the campaign, and our online supporters like you are making the difference. The more people we reach, the more resources we will have to help Hillary win. Send an email to your friends and family asking them to support our campaign by making a contribution at http://www.hillaryclinton.com/joinme

    If you have any questions about your contribution please contact us at http://www.hillaryclinton.com/help/contact/

    So, HRC’s campaign is at a “critical stage” and the more resources they will have to help Hillary “win”. What do you make of this? Did the campaign just forget to update the outgoing “thank you for the contribution” email or is this some kind of hidden message to keep up the good work and you will be rewarded in Denver?

  229. Joe, we don’t want Hillary on any ballot with BO so don’t worry. He is a fraud and when he goes down, we don’t want Hillary any where near him.

  230. It is hard to find the words to describe the anger and
    disappointment I feel toward the DNC, Pelosi and
    so many of our Democratic leaders who joined in to
    “facilitate” this alliance.

    Thru Aug. we still only have a “presumptive nominee”.
    There is a “window” of HOPE.
    There is so much that needs to be brought out about
    the senator and this process. Personally, I don’t see
    myself voting for McCain. Third Party?
    Happen to catch MSNBC’s Joe Scarborough chatting
    up Hillary this AM ? Said she won 500k more votes
    than OB!

  231. Is this really from Hillary, or does the money go to the DNC? I’m suspiscious of everything now a days. Somebody on No Quarter reported getting an email:

    Comment by WasLNbutNoBamaBotsKeepStealingMyName | 2008-06-16 13:11:11

    Just got an email from the Hillary campaign…haven’t gotten one in a long time. It said basically thank you and go to a link to take a look at some pics from the campaign. The pics highlighted her wins.

    Then, at the bottom of the email it said:

    “Thank you so much — I’ll be in touch soon.”

    It almost sounds as if Hillary is a hostage! (NOT A FACT – I’m just saying.)

  232. I got an email from the campaign just like that as well. I think the more we pay down on her debt the less beholden she will be to Obama and the DNC in August.

    I have never seen anything like this in my life. The news just gets more bizarre by the day. So, now he can win without Ohio? What are they putting in that Koolaid.

    Let’s keep the pressure on the SD’s. By the people and for the people. Let’s do this.

  233. I hope that you’ll be able to get confessions from those superdelegates, Mawm. Good luck.

    I don’t know if everyone here knows it, but the day after Edwards announced his support for Bobo, (which was a day or two after he announced that he would NOT be supporting either candidate until, um, I think, the convention) a huge sum of cash appeared in the bank account of Edwards’ brand new charity (for cancer kids).

    It was all underhanded bribery and bullying. Well, Hillary showed that bullying doesn’t faze her. She would make a great president. That’s why I won’t give up.

    If the general election comes around and Bobo’s name is the Dem one, I’m not sure, at this point, if I will be voting for McCain, or skipping that part of the ticket.

  234. Just love that Obama pig with lipstick image. Mawm, did I miss you posting a pic of BO as a pig with lipstick?

    These are outrageous but exciting times. I love being part of this historic and a patriotic movement, and am itching to make a PUMA mark! Kbird-I’ll work with you and others to expose expose expose.

    Go PUMA! I am feeling so powerful wearing PUMA gear now. If anyone gets their hands on a good bumpersticker, let me know where to go for that. I will but some and pass them out.

  235. there is a complaint filed in a Florida Court:
    “issue: Plaintiff is seeking injunctive relief in the form of an order requiring the DNC to honor votes that were cast in the Florida Democratic primary election. Plaintiff alleges constitutional violations and violations of the Voting Rights Act.”

    There are many other violations that need to be filed in courts. The above one can be seen at:

    http://mortizlaw.osu.edu/electionlaw/litigation/GellervDNC.php

  236. Not illiterate- just can’t type…sigh.

  237. This is all just so disgusting. Obama and Dean are trying to do the same thing to Hillary that Obama did to Alice Palmer in Chicago. The audacity of his hypocrisy.

    Just say No Deal!!

    Puma-SF

  238. My opinion is that having two groups, one supporting McCain, and the other working for an open convention and a real floor vote with Hillary on the ballot, makes for a good assault on Obama. Making him into the illegitimate nominee, in my opinion, would do just as much damage as campaigning for McCain now. And for me at least, I see this as a greater struggle for Democracy. Hillary won the popular vote, and almost every other metric of the nomination race. In a truly Democratic race she would be the winner.

    I think this is an excellent point, Mawm. What this basically does is force Obama to fight a war on two fronts. Which should make it easier to defeat him – particularly if both wars get into the media. I think this is really crucial. We really need to get our “real” reasons for dissent out into the mainstream to combat the meme that we are simply “dead enders” or are looking for revenge. If we had a real unbiased media, they would already be looking into this election and exposing the many instances of fraud.

    RD, thank you for posting my comment in your story. I feel more outraged by the day that our own party has defrauded us and thrown away our time and money.

  239. Gore will be endorsing Obama in Detroit. The circle is now complete.

  240. Gore is no saint. He is currently managing a hedge fund in London. I voted for him in 2000, and was very crushed that so clearly the presidency was awarded to Bush. Now I doubt that Gore is what I thought him to be back then, despite his nobel-prize winning work.

  241. The more i think back to this election the more certain I am that it was fixed from the start. I realize that is sounds cynical to say that but I have given it some deep thought and too many things have occurred which when put together only signal one thing.

    I also believe that the Demoncratic party (whoops) needs to be destroyed so that it can be made anew, if that is even possible.

    I support the revolution.

  242. Arabella Trefoil, on June 16th, 2008 at 10:21 am Said:

    “Obama and the DNC were depending on our demoralization.”

    Right. High morale is crucial, central to us. Thinking about how Hillary got pushed and kicked out, about how now we have to vote for BO or else, that is too demoralizing to bear.

    Restoration of morale is what this site, and several others, and the creation of the PUMA movement, is giving us. And it is essential. We are all so grateful.

    Activists against violence against women found out, from extensive talks with victims, that it was better to fight back against an attacker, even if it meant getting beat up. When the women fought back, they had some satisfaction, and weren’t demoralized and depressed. (The police always tell women not to fight back, by the way.)

    And I know this from my experiences over the decades, of having vile things yelled at me in public: instead of slinking away feeling bad, I always, always responded with something, even if it’s only f*** off, a**h***. I leave the field feeling cheerful.

  243. Arabella Trefoil, is this by any chance vous?
    If not, RD, the pumas have a very fab friend, right here!

    http://andoniapr.com/index.html

  244. Oh, MA, am I ever glad to meet you! (as well)…!
    the confluence peeps are the grooviest going…sez I.

  245. I, too, smell a rat. Okay, boys and girls, lets start digging.

  246. Oh, and by the way, I just scraped the Democratic Party sticker off my vehicle. Felt good.

  247. […] You know who i’m talking about, that’s right, these folks. […]

  248. Purge of clinton supporters
    It just happened in South Florida — two Obama supporters from the gay and lesbian community in South Florida were thrown off of the at-large delegation alternates and replaced with political hacks. If you have an agenda that includes anything other than complete and utter devotion to Dear Leader, you are an apostate.

    And this move to Chicago? Just how many Clinton supporters who work at the DNC do you think will be laid off — and how many new hires will be made in Chicago that will be long-time Daley/Obama machine loyalists?

    How much ELECTION FRAUD Chicago style will take place in
    “Virginia (13 electoral votes) or Georgia (15 votes) which could give Obama a shot if he, like Kerry, loses Ohio or Florida.
    Obama’s campaign has spent heavily on time and money in Virginia, where a Democratic presidential candidate hasn’t won since 1964. In recent elections, however, high-profile Republicans have lost there. And in a sign of how serious Obama is taking the state, Plouffe dispatched to Virginia many aides who helped Obama stage his upset win in the Iowa caucuses Jan. 3.
    The key, Plouffe told supporters, will be to register new black voters and new young voters in Virginia.
    Likewise, Georgia has many unregistered black voters who could turn out in record numbers to support the first major-party nominee who is black, he argued. Plouffe said the campaign also will keep an eye on Mississippi and Louisiana as the race moves into the fall to see if new black voters could put them within reach.”

  249. Further Purging:

    Have you seen this on the Obama Camp’s attitude on getting out of the Party the so called “Bush Dogs”? (Conservative often Southern Democrats)

    http://www.openleft.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=1073

  250. I just read all 250 something comments and now I know where my former TM friends are blogging. Hellooo! Did Scan become an O-bot?

    Is it true that the Obama campaign said they want to purge the party of us?

  251. Thanks for info. We need to keep this coming. We’re still pulling for Hillary. Check out our website. What a rotten deal….If anyone is the Messiah, it’s Hillary….She’s been crucified and most of the sheeple don’t know who she really is…What a complete crucifiction and smear campaign.

  252. Okay, here’s our website to check to keep fighting for Hillary.
    http://www.18millionvoice.blogspot.com

  253. Okay one more time….didn’t sleep much sending out all these email…..to keep fighting for Hillary.to the end….www.18millionvoices.blogspot.com

  254. I’ve seen several posts asking how party members can retrieve party documents. I’m not a member of either party so I don’t know all of the rules voters agree to when they register but isn’t a political party much like a company? Don’t they keep you informed and send you changes like any good business, charity or organization is required by law to do?

    If you own stock in a company they publish stockholder’s reports and if reports on the party (company) aren’t available to party members, you should be able to sue to gain access because, as a member, you should know what you are agreeing to.

    And you can get all kinds of documents under the Freedom of Information Act. There is no Constitutional law governing political parties so they can’t hid behind it for protection. And if a political party’s rules conflict with a state’s election law the party must change because Article l outlines election procedures and there is no mention of political parties in the Constitution. And if political parties aren’t covered by the Constitution or the law, then I certainly wouldn’t want be a member.

  255. Stop the fraud of the DNC and Obama

    http://www.justsaynodeal.com

    Contribute to Hillary to retire the debt.

    Keep getting your voices heard.

    PUMA

  256. It takes more than a year to move into a commercial property in Chicago. The negotiation of the contract is time consuming even with the best paid lawyers. Then there is the preparation of the property (offices) including wiring for IT, phones etc.

    I know this first hand and agree with those who propose this theory.

    I would go as afr as to agree with those that propose that this has been going on since 2004.

    What are all of your thoughts regarding the allegation that Pelosi took the Bush impeachment off the table was to buy the Republicans acquiesence to a democrat win.

  257. The most incredulous thing is how all the supers flocked to Obama. Have they no shame? It is unbelievable how Howard Dean, Brazile, Pelosi, Kennedy et al have manuevered this election for Obama. This is a guy in Florida suing the DNC. Maybe we could find out from him and his attorneys what we could do legally to stop Dean, Obama et al. There has to be laws that apply to election stealing even within our own party.

  258. […] at and alienation from the party that left us behind. In a telling exchange between bloggers on The Confluence, a blogger called hwddog writes: The idea that the DNC is moving so soon after they’ve completed […]

  259. For those who wish to stay together in a long term commitment to the ideals and rinciples that Hillary Clinton has spent a lifetime promoting, http://Together4Us.com offers access for activists, funders, students, policy-makers and ordinary people to come together in support of each other and their goals for America. Please come to our website and join, use the code below to put our linked logo on your website and distribute our message and this code to all your network. Spread the word. We will be happy to put up a reciprocal link, your own co-branded web page on our site, or your own blog.

    Thanks so much,
    Gretchen Glasscock,
    Together4Us

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