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Lurking at the Orange Cheeto

It’s childish, I know, but sometimes I can’t help but wonder what the denzens of the O-borg are saying about us resistant Clinton supporters these days. Are they aware of PUMA? Do they understand that we are not going to come around? Are they going to try to win us over instead of screaming at us to STFU? Usually this happens when I accidentally click on a link at another blog.

Via Vastleft at Corrente, an Orange Cheeto diarist named “zeitshabba,” apparently laboring under the misconception that we PUMAs take orders from Hillary Clinton, has called on her to “kill the PUMAs.” “Zeitshabba” links the Just Say No Deal website, and says of the comments he/she read there, “almost all are your basic uninformed anti-Obama trash.” “Zeitshabba”:

question[s] the honesty of their D registrations, but figured there can’t be many of them out there, so I poked further. Besides the recurring Hillary links, there were plenty to this PUMA organization. Now I’m not going to condemn Sen. Clinton for having such odious supporters, but if they are truly supporters of her policies, she needs to reach out to them and get this shit under control.

What shit?

This shit [link to PUMApac website].

It’s not even a fortnight old – this was created after reality deemed her run futile. I was going to laugh them off, but I noticed their community seems larger & more active than I thought.

Naturally, this Cheeto diarist misses the point of the PUMA Unparty, which our own Riverdaughter, riffing off a comment from SM, created as a protest against the undemocratic methods used by Howard Dean’s DNC to select an unqualified, unelectable candidate. We don’t march in lockstep with each other, let alone follow orders from politicians of any stripe. We tend to be independent, nonconformist types. Although we admire and respect Senator Clinton, we have already declined to follow her suggestion that we support the nominee selected by party insiders.

Hilariously, one commenter on this diary suggests:

It’s easy. Why can’t Hillary send an email to every one of these sites and ask that it be posted prominently? In the email, she could express her appreciation for those who supported her in the primary and ask them to move their wholehearted support to Obama now. She can outline what a John McCain presidency would do to America.

That’s Hillary taking responsibility.

First, sweetie, Hillary is aware of The Confluence and she hasn’t yet asked us to cease and desist. I don’t know how Riverdaughter would react to such a request, but it wouldn’t phase me. Furthermore, we are quite capable of evaluating for ourselves “what a John McCain presidency would do to America” versus the only current alternative.

Another comment:

Most of this is first and foremost Republican dirty tricks.

Some of this may be moderate to conservative democrats (Joe Lieberman Democrats) who for various reasons (including, but probably not limited to race) found Hillary acceptable but not Obama.

A lesser portion is some very naive, confused “feminists” who really do genuinely believe, contrary to all evidence, that Hillary was steamrolled by a coalition of misogynist media pundits, DNC insiders and Obama’s campaign.

Another commenter suggests that PUMA is a tool of the DLC to maintain their influence in the Democratic Party. (That shouldn’t be a problem, since the DLC has backed Obama since his run for the Senate.) Another commenter, natch, says we are racists and dupes of a personality cult. Talk about projection!

While this diary didn’t get much of a response–just 7 recs and 53 comments, another recent Cheeto diary about “how to talk to” people who are resistant to voting for Obama (also posted at MyDD, EENR, and the diarist’s own blog) received 514 comments and spent a considerable period of time on the rec list. In this diary, desmoinesdem, an Edwards supporter who still has doubts about Obama, offers “friendly advice” to Obama supporters. She argues that if they want to get Clinton supporters to come over to their side they need to shift away from their usual attitude of arrogant condescension and enraged insistence that everyone bow in adoration of Obama to a more tolerant, reasonable tone. For example, she suggests that

Saying you feel sorry for someone because she (unlike millions of more insightful people) cannot recognize Obama’s fantabulous awesomeness is not a good outreach strategy.

Desmoinsdem also cautions them to let go once someone has said they will vote for Obama. Apparently while the she was ill and in the hospital, this poor woman had to deal with a “friend” who wouldn’t stop calling her to harp on her insufficient level of commitment to The One. I won’t bore you any more with the contents of this diary, except to say that the diarist doesn’t spend much time on issue-based arguments for supporting Obama’s candidacy. However, she repeatedly reminds Obama supports that the Supreme Court is their number one, ace-in-the-hole argument to convince Clinton supporters to switch to Obama. {{{ huge sigh}}}

As you can well imagine, the diarist’s advice was poorly received or misinterpreted by many commenters. A common response was that the diary is all well and good, but Obama’s campaign is already all about “inclusiveness.” One commenter pointed out the “irrelevance” of one of the diarist’s points–that the Rev. Wright controversy and Hillary’s wins in Ohio and Pennsylvania had “reinforced many Democrats’ belief that Obama is a weak candidate for the general election.” He/she wrote:

The reason for prioritizing the relative strength of a candidate for the general election is obviously the importance of making sure a Democrat wins in November. Any person who thinks this way would clearly support the Democratic nominee, whoever it turns out to be. Since the nominee has now been chosen, this point is now moot. Though it made sense when you wrote it, it is now nonsensical.

This assumption that there would be no need to persuade Democrats to support Obama was a very common reaction. Here’s another example:

My point is that there is no need to persuade these people who “still think Obama is a weak candidate for the general election.” They’re going to vote for him, as you say. The whole argument is now moot. My response to such complaining would be, “Well, I’m sure you don’t want to make that a self-fulfilling prophecy just for the satisfaction of being right.”

This one made me laugh out loud:

I think it’s just easier to fight the “he’s all talk and no substance” accusation with a polite, non-condescending direction to check out all his positions on his website.

I mean everything is there, detailed policy on every single issue facing our country. That was what first attracted me to Barack Obama is that he is one of the first candidates where I can truly say that I agree with him on almost all of the issues and that for once I won’t have to hold my nose and vote for the lesser of two evils. Maybe find out what issues concern the voter the most, and say “you will find everything you need to know about that issue on his website.”

Here’s another amazingly clueless attitude that occurred frequently in the comments to this diary:

…I really don’t think you can consider it Hillary bashing when some of the accusations are true and completely valid….I just don’t think we need to worry too much about supporters of other candidates coming around to Obama, the vast majority of them are already coming around. My mother was an ardent Clinton supporter and once the primary was over and she had to accept it, it took her exactly one day to get over it and say she would vote for Obama. I think the majority of Democratic voters will be like her, they might mourn a bit over their candidate losing but they simply won’t vote for someone who is against everything they believe in.

We need to be gracious and follow the tone Obama has set the entire campaign of just being classy.

Yeah, that’s the ticket. Stay classy, Obamatrons.

Here’s my response:

239 Responses

  1. Oh Lawd, the redirect to the website to find out Senator Empty Suit really is substantive is hilarious. The notion that Obama ran a “classy” campaign is hysterical. Obama supporters…they’re good for laughs.

  2. I’m glad someone wrote about this on Kos. The more attention we get, the better.

  3. Dear god. These are classics, I tell ya, classics!

    “A lesser portion is some very naive, confused “feminists” who really do genuinely believe, contrary to all evidence, that Hillary was steamrolled by a coalition of misogynist media pundits, DNC insiders and Obama’s campaign. ”

    And ohhhh my, they actually do the Website Maneuver:

    “I think it’s just easier to fight the “he’s all talk and no substance” accusation with a polite, non-condescending direction to check out all his positions on his website.”

    You couldn’t make that #$&! up. It’s like they’re campaigning to be their own SNL satire writing staff. But then, I’m just naive and confused. Or an evil operative. Or something.

  4. BB, you have a stronger stomach than I.

    totally allergic to cheetohs. always have been, even before the dark days.

  5. I thought desmoinesdem’s diary was parody. It wasn’t?

  6. I guess our SH** is starting to get on their shoes!

    Hey gang – we’ve only just begun!

  7. You guys, Heidi Li of Heidi’s Potpourri — an amazing Clinton supporter — was just featured in a Yahoo article about her campaign to Retire Hillary’s Debt and all of us Clinton supporters. She regularly posts on pro-Clinton sites and is the world’s greatest fundraiser but also positive Hillary person.

    It’s a fabulous piece, I can’t believe Yahoo featured her (and all of us) like this. She posted in on Bitterpoliticz for people who wanted something to brighten their day with all of our bad news like the Al Gore possible endorsement and the Patti Solis Doyle move (whatever, she’s not that effective), and find something positive we can do.

    Some of us are also focused on Turning Down Barky and are determined to end his felonious attempts to strong arm his way past democracy, but here’s the positive side of what we can do for Hillary as well!


  8. Boston, great post – I, like the awesomeist Murphy, have been on a non-Cheeto diet.

    We tend to be independent, nonconformist types.

    AMEN to that!

    I love it that these idiots think that this is a GOP front or a “Hillary campaign” thing.

    PUMAs will rage on until “Democracy” is back in the “Democratic” Party.

  9. Someone, please pass the Kool-Aide. I can’t take anymore.

  10. The best part is PUMA is only 16 days old!

    Happy Sweet 16, PUMAs!!

  11. just got an email from the hillary campaign with a photo album from the campaign. It brought tears to my eyes. I have to say though, she didn’t mention Obama in the email or the photo album. here’s a link, check it out:


  12. ok, they’ve quit ignoring us, and they no longer laugh at us. now they’re fighting us. all in 16 days.

  13. I have a confession to make. I’m not going to tell anyone I know that I’m voting or have voted for McCain. I know it’s cowardly but I just can’t face the consequences – I don’t think my relationships with my family or friends would ever be the same.

    The down side may be that I can’t encourage or inspire others to do the same, but I honestly don’t think I know anyone who would anyway. And there’s a possible up side – they may seriously underestimate us and get taken by surprise.

    Anyone out there doing the same thing?

  14. 16 days old!!

    C’mon people, feel the power – we are only 16 days old and we are now the Rebel Alliance!

  15. I read here all the time, but don’t really post. I completely support the PUMA movement after what the Obama campaign and his supporters have done. I will never forget.

    I just have to comment on how unbelievably pretentious the posts at orange hellhole sound. I can’t believe someone over there posted that the Puma website is “…not even a fortnight old.” A fortnight? Who writes/thinks/talks that way?? Their attitude is so snooty it makes me furious.

    That whole site drips with elitism, and I will be very happy when PUMA puts an end to the obnoxious wing of the democratic party.

  16. dear bostonboomer – THANK YOU! Especially loved your “response”!

  17. Riverdaughter and those of you insulted by TM this morning …

    I have a present for yall!!!!


  18. I read but don’t comment when I’m at work but if I may comment on the previous diary: Why would we believe anything that comes out of the Obama campaign? This was just posturing and trying to get in the McCain camp’s head. McCain is smart to just lay low and let this be all about Obama.

    And as for the woman who said her mother changed her mind in one day, I will call your mother and raise you my sister and my brother in law.

  19. Gary, I saw the album and felt like you did.

    People can tell in a photo whether a smile is posed or real. Hillary is such a transparent being, anger, sadness, joy, grace under pressure – it just shows in her face.

    The photo album – wow. She is beaming with joy and sincerity in those photos.

  20. OT. Gore just endorsed Obama. Very classily, and all, but still, I am sad. 😦

  21. LOL when I saw your response. Fabulous.

  22. DeniseB, I was just talking about that with a friend. We both are most likely going to vote for McCain in November (definitely NOT voting for Obama) but we both are in the closet about it for the most part. If I were polled right now, I’d probably say “Undecided” or “Neither”. I think there are many more like us.

  23. interesting Gore is so “late” in his endorsement… makes me think the DNC still thinks that presumptious nominee is just that…

  24. I read that diary by DesmoinesDem. It was sincere as she always is. I think she’s just observing how hopelessly uncouth and emotionally stunted most Obama supporters are.

    So, Patty Solis Doyle has gone to work for the Obama campaign and will be the executive assistant (or some such thing) to his future VP choice. As Jeralyn asked, anyone care to read the tea leaves on that?

    BTW, I’m working on a great commercial. It involves real life Obama supporters drinking Koolaid whilst directing people to his website. My vengeance for the 1984 ad.

  25. Whenever I get the, “Have you read his website?” horseshit from an Obamabot I always ask if Obama’s read his website. It’s amazing how his website can articulate plans and policies that he somehow can never articulate in speeches, debates, or townhalls.

  26. It’s sad what has become of the democratic party. But I think we all have to keep in mind these are not people known for courage. They are part of a business. They are trying to replicate the Republicans as best they can. And again, McCain just waits.

  27. Stillife and DeniseB: Is this like a Bradley effect in reverse?

  28. There is lots going on in the world today. Pakistan is again (probably always) in the grip of the Taliban. Al Sadr is threatening to end the truce. Gas prices are increasing by the minute. Food is destined to rise once again because of the flooding. The list goes on.

    Does anyone actually believe that either one of these two presumptive candidates has a clue to solve even 10% of the implosion that is surely coming to this nation? Does any one have the least amount of confidence in either on of these men? All we are being fed is Roe v Wade.

    The nomination has been stolen. The Chicago machine is alive and kicking. The GOP is on the ropes. The men surrounding these candidates are suspect from top to bottom. These are the choices the voters are left with. Mind boggling.

  29. dakinikat, Ha! Love your cartoon – very appropriate for Taylor.

  30. Each day we grow in strength and numbers. How scary for BO, all these great blogs are uniting. Go PUMA Pac.

  31. Great poll out : Obama’s favorables dropping big time:


  32. dakinikat! good job!

  33. Desmoinesdem is obviously a very nice and sincere person. I remember reading her very informative diaries leading up to and after the Iowa caucuses. I definely don’t mean any criticism of her, although I have to wonder why she still bothers going to DK at all. The boyz are not going to catch on to why so many Clinton supporters just tune them out now. It was the responses that struck me so funny.

  34. Pat, when I read your last comment I heard Marvin Gaye’s “What’s Going On?” in my head.

    We are more vulnerable now than when Nixon took office.

    And now Gore, Mr. Environment, sells out to the Nuclear Energy man. It’s so disheartneing but PUMA is only 16 days old and look at the dissent we have caused!

  35. thank you, that post at TM, made me really mad, let’s see how she feels when that ugly cartoon has her name on it instead of ours!

  36. Lori,

    Are you really making a video? It sure sounds like a good one.

  37. Gary, I got the e-mail too, but I haven’t been able to look at the pictures yet. I don’t feel like crying right now. I’ll work up the courage eventually….

  38. that fox poll is from april…geez.

  39. I got it BB and I sent money.

  40. Oborg doesn’t care how we vote. Let’s face it folks. They see us as insignificant. They see us as part of the usual 10% defection any party gets during an election year.

  41. Whose surprised? Gore installed Dean and Donna at the DNC. He has said nothing all these months as they whaled on Democracy …he’s up to his neck in the Clinton take down .

  42. When Nixon ran in 1968 he did so on a platform that he had a “secret plan” to get us out of Vietnam but in order to “see” it we had to vote for him. No previews were allowed.

    There was no “secret plan”. It took another couple of years and thousands more dead before we finally conceded. The same with these two men. We invaded a country we had no business to invade under false pretenses to bolster another empty suit who viewed the presidency as a board game. Because of this we are stuck. We are stuck because there are no easy solutions and unlike Vietnam, the main resource of our economy is located in that region of the world.

    I doubt even a wise Solomon would be able to find a solution that will be satisfactory. We are there because of one man’s obdurate position and lack of knowledge and we are now about to hand it over to another whose breadth of experience is severly limited. Brilliant!

  43. I really think BO will take Kansas…NOT

    The latest Rasmussen Reports telephone survey in Kansas shows John McCain leading Barack Obama by ten percentage points, 47% to 37%. Six percent (6%) say they’d vote for a third-party candidate while 10% remain undecided.

  44. unfortunately I just went over to CNN to check out things after a long time away….. it made me ill.. BUT…by looking around and still seeing how the incredible bias is still going on for BO…
    my position has cemented… I will be voting for McCain in November …whether I say it out loud and proud or sneak in there …I will NOT just let my vote die.

  45. I received the email from Hillary camp as well and I have to admit that I think she is not out of it yet. Why would she send us a contribution request not for Obama? I especially like the closing of the email

    Thank you so much — I’ll be in touch soon.



  46. Hay guys,

    The democratic party is shamefully sexist!!!The women in it won’t stand up!!! WE have to for ourselves and our daughters. The shame of the dems is how badley they treat women. If they treated AAs like this all hell would brake loose. Now meny of them are denying the sexism. They are denying it because they intend to use it again if Hillary runs in 2012 after NOBAMA LOOSES BIG!!!!!!

    PUMA and the rest of us have to continue to fight for gender equality. If we let them get away with this it will set women back 50 years!!! I can’t stand the thought of this. I have an 8 year old daughter and all I have learned so far from these thugs is no matter how qualified a women is, she will always be second class beneath any and all men.

    I am so angry!!! I always thought that at the end of the day the men would turn on Hillary just like they did to Susan B. Anthoney, when they gave black men the right to vote!!! REMEMBER, WOMEN ARE THE MOST OPPRESSED IN THIS COUNTRY, NOT THE BLACK MAN!!!!!!!!!

  47. Pat,

    And if you read the NYT article about BO’s management style it seems as though he studied W’s to the point of imitation. Even his temperment seems W-like. This is really turning into some sort of Munch painting.

  48. Wow! I thought we were these incredibly pathetic, war-weary deadenders, the Clinton Dems who will come home in the fall [because we don’t have anyplace else to go]. They [the Obamatrons] said they didn’t need us and yet they take the time, again and again, to rant and rave, even threaten to kill us [metaphorically, I hope. I’m really not into beheading].

    But now, the conspiracy theory–we’re being directed by the sinister Clintons, whipped into some blind frenzy to spoil the game for the “Great One.” These are the same sinister Clintons who won the first two-term presidency in 30 years, who gave us eight years of relative peace and undeniable prosperity.

    Gee, how sinister can you get?

    Just listened to Will Bowers on Neil Cavuto speak to issues of PUMA voters–not endorsing the Dems and the undemocratic way in which the primary was conducted. Bowers attended the “Dems for McCain” outreach on Saturday . He said the people he talked to were “reassured” after speaking with John McCain personally. Bowers did a good job and underscored that his attendance on Saturday was a personal decision and did not represent the PUMA organization as a whole.

    Good spot. Glad I managed to catch it live.


  49. This is what I was thinking about today: McCain is playing very middle of the road, making this election about Obama (letting his ego take him right off the cliff). That 54% favorable won’t last too long. All in due time.

    McCain is viewed favorably by 55% of voters nationwide and unfavorably by 44%. The numbers for Obama are 54% favorable and 43% unfavorable. Opinions are held more strongly about Obama–31% have a Very Favorable opinion of the Democratic hopeful while 27% hold a Very Unfavorable opinion. For McCain, those numbers are 17% Very Favorable and 19% Very Unfavorable

  50. I think that fox poll is from April folks! There is non polling going on with Hillary these days.

  51. Just saw Will on Cavuto.

  52. BB,
    Is FOX the only one doing polls with Clinton in the equation?

  53. Annetoo: YOU ARE RIGHT!

    I would hate to think that we are all victims to Gore’s psychodramatic “I hate Hillary because she outstaged me from 1992-2000?” tantrum.

    But that he endorsed a vote stealer the same way he was done by the Repubs, is SHAMEFUL.

  54. Oops. You’re right, Ben. I followed the link and didn’t notice the date.

  55. If the PUMA people vote for McCain, then how do they know that the vote was a voice of dissent?

    Wouldn’t it be better to write Hillary’s name in? If several million people did that, the message is loud and clear. It is a big raised middle finger to the DNC.

  56. Or, do what NYT and NY Post did and declare Bo…the first
    Woman President! (to McCain macho man we need to reject)
    I kid you not!

  57. Could be, Kim! After 2000 and 2004, I swore I would never vote for a Republican. I can’t believe I’m actually considering it now, but I feel that a strong statement has to be made. It may not be enough just to stay home.

  58. And I bet that 27% very unfavorable for Obama has a lot of democrats in it. For example, when I’m polled (in Ohio I often am) I say I have a “favorable” view of McCain. Certainly, not very favorable. But with Obama…whatever the worst description you have I will take.

  59. Hey, thanks for the link!

    No, my diary was not intended to be a parody–it was directed at the Obama fans, with some material included for the amusement of fellow non-supporters.

    I spend more time at Bleeding Heartland than anywhere else, but I won’t ever boycott Daily Kos. Someone has to swim against the current there.

    I would encourage everyone to be open to changing your mind about not voting for Obama. I’ve had to vote for some pretty awful Democratic candidates in my lifetime. I also have friends who have sworn in the summer not to vote for our nominee, but have “come home” in September or October. If you truly can’t stomach Obama, voting for a third-party candidate is better than voting for McCain. He would veto anything good the Democrats could get out of Congress.

  60. SteveS,
    Each state has restrictions on write in votes. I am not sure what most are but if I were going to write in any candidate I would make sure what my state was going to do with that vote.

  61. As for bluedawgdem’s question, the reason why Hillary would ask for a contribution not for Obama’s campaign is that she still has debt to pay off from her campaign. A lot of candidates still need to raise money to pay debts after the campaign is over.

    So I wouldn’t get your hopes up about her not being out of the running.

  62. BB — I was laughing throughout your post. Thank you for taking one for the team and swimming through the OrangeAide for us.

  63. Women need to start somewhere to make a dent into the mysogny that exists. They must stop allowing themselves to be portrayed as objects as a start. Look at the ads on tv and mags. Women are as scantily clothed as possible just to sell a vacuum cleaner.

    Another recent example is 15 yr old Miley Cyrus posing half clad in a sheet and this photo layout was done by another woman, Annie Liebowitz. The sexualizing and objectifying of women as young as 15 is allowing other women and girls to address one another in the vilest and most obscene manner and to what end?

    It is women who are allowing this to happen to themselves and until that visual for male pleasure is erased no woman will be free of sexism. It is women who hold that key not the MSM or pundits. By our own actions we are almost sanctioning this behavior because we allow this go on without censure.

    Let no one define who you are as a woman. You are the keeper of your own destiny. Get off Facebook and MySpace with these utterly stupid pictures of yourselves acting like strippers. Until then, sexism will be a daily ride.

  64. Your Clinton supporters just don’t get it – you are soooooooooooooo old school!


  65. i”m thinking divided govt is a good check and balance. We aren’t knee jerk Dem voters here in my opinion. I appreicate your tone Desmoines but I just can’t vote for a man so unqualified and arrogant. I’m surprised you don’t see the similarities to Shrub. Not on policy, but on style and ego. I think the Cheetos secretly envy the bush/cheney style and are emulating it quite well. an unqualified president be he left or right is a disaster waiting to happen.

  66. desmoinesdem

    Thanks for the advice, but if Hillary is not the nominee
    McCain can count on my vote. Period

  67. Thought you might all enjoy this comment from NoQuarter (below). This is the attitude that keeps PUMA strong. See the post over there about Christina Ruccia and her conversation with Howard Dean. He confirms that he is keeping Hillary’s name off the first ballot for the sake of “party unity.” WHAT are we going to do about this outright coup?

    Comment by realchicken | 2008-06-16 15:13:51

    You’d better modify your website since the overwhelming majority of those 18 million voices are now backing Obama–Strickland, Rendell, Solis-Doyle, Granholm, Wasserman-Schultz, Boxer, Feinstein, Waters, Rangel, Vilsack, Corzine, Carville, Begala, Bayh.

    Everybody else has moved on except you silly little kids playing spy games in this dark little corner of the Internet.

    And, FYI, Hillary’s name will not be on the first ballot of the convention. Obama is in charge and Pelosi is the chair. Hillary will be lucky if she’s allowed to use the restroom!

  68. Desmoines, PUMAs are varied, some will vote McCain, some won’t. But we are dead serious about rejecting the “selected not elected” nomination of the Precious.

    When “Democracy” comes back to the “Democratic” Party, we’ll return. In the meantime, they are no better than Republicans who stole votes in 2000 & 2004.

  69. SteveS,

    The kinds of people who voted for the two candidates will be revealed in the exit polls. Just as in the primaries, we will know how many gender, race, religion, and party affiliation from those results, along with many many other demographic characteristics.

  70. If someone who is supporting Obama because he is a Democrat can explain to me the logic of voting for a candidate simply because he is a Democrat is logical, principled, or even rational, then I will give her or him a first class ticket to Wrightucky!

    Seriously, get beyond the label. Tomorrow I can call myself a Republican and have the most liberal agenda in the world.

    And Republicans would be expected to get behind me because I label myself a Republican?


  71. Apologies for double using the term “logic” but I just really don’t get it.

    In fact, I’m mystified by it.

  72. Congratulations to Tiger Woods on his success today with another win at the US OPEN!

    Here is a bi-racial American who has rightfully won based on his skill and experience!

    No tricks, No smoke, No mirrors!

  73. Al Gore comes begging for money. I asked if count all the votes means except for Florida and Michigan. Too bad he’ll never see that question just as he can’t seem to see what an empty suit he is propping up.

  74. Marisa,

    Excellent point.

    I always say, “You can call a horse a cow, but the milk is gonna taste funny.”

  75. Demoinesdem,

    I thought your diary was very good except that you didn’t deal with the fact that Clinton supporters tend to care about issues. And you said that Obama and Clinton are very similar on issues, which is just not true. Obama doesn’t care about issues. His campaign is all about him. Clinton actually cares, and that is why she got more votes in the primary than the pretentious nominee.

    Posting your diary, which clearly was the result of a great deal of hard work and reflects serious experience in the field, at the Orange Cheeto was like pearls before swine. I noticed someone posted it at Obama’s website too. Perhaps some reasonable Obama supporters will read it and learn from you.

    The arguments you advanced probably won’t work on us old, female, “racist” deadenders though.

  76. Steve S,

    Adding on what bostonboomer said, if McCain wins blue or swing states that Hillary won easily in the primaries, the Nobama message will come through loud and clear. Write-ins are not allowed in many states.

  77. Carol,

    That piece is really funny. Thanks!

  78. Or the logic of voting for a black candidate simply because he is black. It is not racism if you are an AA but it is if you are white and not voting for him. Alice down the Rabbit Hole.

  79. Charles, Thank you. I’m honored by your kind words.

  80. Sorry, but I had to peek over at TM.

    One of the posters declared, “Obama can have my vote when I am dead.”

    Trust me, he intends to have it if necessary!

  81. Do we really need any more evidence of the BIAS: ’nuff said!

    Ex-journalist Linda Douglass, now a spokesman for Barack Obama, admitted in a piece in Monday’s Washington Post that she “always” had “fundamental differences” with Republican presidential candidate John McCain. The former reporter, whose long history of liberal bias has been chronicled by NewsBusters, also announced to the Post’s Howard Kurtz that she believes “reporters are constantly struggling with themselves to suppress their personal opinions.”

  82. bostonboomer, I see you brought one of the borg specimens home with you after your very interesting mission into the collective.

  83. @ Steve S:

    Be careful with write-in votes. I’ve heard that in some states they are actually counted for the party’s official nominee.

  84. Pat Johnson, on June 16th, 2008 at 5:24 pm Said:
    Or the logic of voting for a black candidate simply because he is black. It is not racism if you are an AA but it is if you are white and not voting for him. Alice down the Rabbit Hole.

    Pat, Sugar from Sugar and Spice wrote an excellent piece abotu this same subject, comparing Obama’s black support to the OJ Simpson scandal.

    Sugar said that the black community supported OJ despite the fact that he was guilty as sin, just because OJ’s a black man who was going to get away with it. Yet, if you were white and against OJ getting away with it, you were labeled a racist.

    If you haven’t read it, please do. She’s on the Blogroll at the right hand side.

  85. Anyone still who can say Obama ran a clean campaign either wasn’t paying attention, is lying, or is seriously in the cult.

  86. Along the lines of what Carol said, let’s all take very good care of ourselves. Our demise would only spell one thing–a vote for Obama.

    “According to latest Rasmussen Poll, Obama leads McCain in a key demographic–the votes of dead people.

    Phone interviews with self identified Democrats, Independents and Republicans indicate that Obama will handily win this group in November. Currently, Obama is polling at 100%–no change since October of last year.”

  87. fif: I’m a proud paranoid holdout.

  88. I wrote this to a young woman who I knew back in my Chicago days. She is now grown up and working for the Obama campaign. She is a good person and tried to use gay issues to get me on their side. We are communicating through facebook. My response:

    Good points, Nora. As always, I have the utmost respect for you, however, I don’t trust Barack on gay issues. if barack were gay i still wouldn’t vote for him. this is about experience and knowledge. I see obama as a divider and, yes, a fraud. And frankly, you get to a point in life when labels don’t matter so much. I may have a different opinion of social justice than you do. I’ve been a prosecuting attorney for 10 years. Justice isn’t an abstract concept to me. We will probably have to agree to disagree. Yes, i am incredibly disappointed in the D party’s candidate but not in you. I think voting just on social issues is a very bad policy. You all should realize that there is a large number of Hillary supporters who aren’t going “to rally around” Obama. Check out The Confluence/Riverdaughter. I know so many people, most of my family and friends, who voted for Hillary but will not vote for Obama.

  89. I’m actully thankful the” classy,” Obamatrons are so insulting to Hill and want to keep her out of the loop. When they go down in flames, I want Hill clear of the wreckage. If they really wanted to nix Hill , they would invite her to join them on the good ship of fools . P.S .Gore is a putz.

  90. Desmoines said,

    ….I just don’t think we need to worry too much about supporters of other candidates coming around to Obama, the vast majority of them are already coming around.

    This is a gem from the LATimes that is being touted as evidence that Clinton dems are coming around.

    An NBC/Wall Street Journal poll found a wide gap last week: Women favored Obama over McCain, 52% to 33%. The survey also found that voters who cast ballots for Clinton in the Democratic primaries preferred Obama over McCain, 61% to 19%.

    What I see is over 1/3 of Cinton dems won’t commit to BO, and 1/5 are now in McCain’s camp.

    How vast does vast need to be?

  91. Boston and everyone. Thanks for the post and thought you might be interested in the following. My husband just returned from England and brought back his favourite political magazine, Private Eye. It has a reputation for printing close to the edge stories that other papers are afraid to print. In it an article entitled: Obama and the Mysterious Mr Auchi. Have you guys heard of him? If not, the link to Obama goes like this.

    Apparently, according to Private Eye, while Rezko was funding Obama, Auchi was funding Rezko. Auchi made his money in the arms and oil businesses. Auchi left Iraq in 1979 but remained on such good terms with Saddam’s regime he could help organise the sale of Italian frigates to the Iraqi defence ministry. The US media fears printing anything about this connection because Auchi’s lawyers are all over the place threatening lawsuits.

    When Obama was asked about Auchi by ?, he said he had no recollection of meeting him. But, during the Rezko trial a witness told the Court that Obama had been at a reception for Auchi organised by Rezko.

    The piece ends by calling Obama a lucky politician since investigations of his shady connections will probably go unnoticed. Again all of this is as reported in Private Eye.

    Don’t know where this gets us – just another piece of information about Obama connections that will stack up with others and probably never fall on his head.

  92. marisa – I bet Obama continues to win this key demographic.

    Also, I heard a lot of pets are Obama supporters also and are probably going to swing their votes over to him in the GE also.

  93. From Today’s Washington Post

    Clinton Insiders Take Umbrage at Solis Doyle Move
    By Anne E. Kornblut

    FLINT, Mich. — The nomination fight is over, but the warring between the Obama and Clinton campaigns lives on.

    The Obama team announced today that it had picked former Clinton campaign manager Patti Solis Doyle to serve on its general election staff. Fair enough: Solis Doyle is a native Chicagoan with deep ties to many senior Obama aides.

    But Solis Doyle — who after her firing midway through the primaries is no longer on speaking terms with much of the Clinton inner circle, including the senator herself — has been tapped to serve as chief of staff to the future vice presidential running mate. Not exactly a signal that Obama is considering Hillary Clinton for the job.

    At least that’s how Clinton loyalists see it. “It’s a slap in the face,” Susie Tompkins Buell, a prominent Clinton backer, said in an interview. “Why would they put somebody that was so clearly ineffective in such a position? It’s a message. We get it.” She said it was a “calculated decision” by the Obama team to “send a message that she [Clinton] is not being considered for the ticket.”

    Other Clinton insiders also seethed. “Who can blame Obama for rewarding Patti? He would never be the nominee without her,” one person who has worked for both Clintons and remains close to them said. The sentiment reflected what another person in the immediate Clinton orbit described as “shock” that Obama would send such a strong signal that he is not considering Clinton as his runningmate so soon.

    Although she devoted her adult life to working for Clinton, Solis Doyle left the Clinton world surrounded by a cloud of acrimony, blamed by some close Clinton loyalists — and reportedly Clinton herself — for failing to keep the campaign in order heading into Iowa. After being yanked from her role, Solis Doyle had said she would travel with the campaign and remain on as an adviser, but Clinton effectively cut her off and she was not seen on the road again.

    Posted at 3:06 PM ET on Jun 16, 2008 | Category: Hillary Rodham Clinton

  94. I’m not Gary, but for me, I do not want Obama to be President, so if he won, I would be disappointed.

    I think the nation is safer with divided government for the next 4 years.

  95. Ben, that was a great PUMA reply!

  96. Marsha, Auchi is the guy that funneled money to the PLO. Yep. The Palestine Liberation Army.

  97. Thank you for doing the dirty work of actually visiting the Big Orange Cheetoh so I didn’t have to, because if I had gone there myself, I would have puked. It would have been orange puke, too.

    They are SO clueless still. Since I was a young teenager I have called myself a liberal and never stopped telling people that, even when the word itself was unfairly trashed. I am very, very liberal, and also very pragmatic. There is NOTHING about Obama that makes the liberal in me want to vote for him. I’m still not going to vote for McCain, but I also continue to feel that a Democratic Congress doing battle against McCain will be better than a Democratic Congress caving in to Rethug Lite, aka Obama.

  98. Marsha McLean,
    Do you know about http://reskowatch.blogsplot.com ? It is a pretty good resource to find out about a lot of Obama’s shady connections.

  99. Nathan, Obama won’t win unless he cheated like his cronies did at the RBC.

    Wonder how many Supreme Court Justices are under his payroll?

  100. BostonBoomer,

    You are a brave soul for visiting the Big Orange Nothing. I hope you didn’t go alone.

  101. Nathan,

    What comment of Gary’s are you replying to? Did you post your comment in the wrong thread or on the wrong blog? Your comment is seriously OT.

  102. Florence,

    I rarely go there. As I said in my post, I mostly end up there from links at other blogs–often Corrente. They do the hard work and I follow in their footsteps. But it is a good idea to have some idea of what the opposition is up to.

  103. Nathan that is what I thought might have happened. Feel free to repost you comment on Gary’s thread where he’ll see it.

  104. Nathan,

    Self-reflection is a good thing.

  105. Let Patti Solis Doyle watch her stories on Obama’s dime.

  106. Nathan,

    Your comment to SM on the other hand is highly offensive and will be deleted.

  107. Nathan, it’s not because he’s black – it’s because the majority of Dem voters do not agree with his policies and the way his team & cronies ran the primaries are PROOF that they are cheaters & liars.

    We saw the vote stealing and cheating live on live TV and that is why we will not vote for a candiadte who supports voter suppresion.

    ANd another thing, this is coming from a dark-skinned Latin woman. I probably have just as much African DNA as Barack does.

    You and your ilk are another fine example on why Barack Obama will never win over voters who beleive in Democracy and Voter Rights.

  108. Just received a solicitation in the mail from Emily’s List–nowhere in the letter is Barack Obama’s name–just ‘let’s get a Democrat in the White House’ stuff. I think that is real interesting.

    I’m sending it back—NO DEAL.

  109. Boston, thanks – what a moron.

  110. PUMApac guy on Fox wishing for a McCain-Clinton ticket. If only…

    I understand the reticence to reveal an intended vote for McCain, but I think it’s important to be honest and forthright, especially with anyone who knows your party allegiances. I went to work in Democratic politics when I was 16 and have never voted for a Republican. When people who know me hear I am voting for McCain, it really gives them pause. If explaining your reasoning, in an intelligent and measured manner, causes even one friend or relative to re-evaluate Obama, it’s worth any blowback you might get for being perceived as a “traitor.” Remember to stay calm, avoid accusations of Kool-Aid consumption, and skip the derogatory nicknames we have for Barky…sweetie…gutterball…uh, Obama.

    Silence implies consent. Having the courage of your convictions is never easy. But I’ve bit my tongue in too many social situations just to “keep the peace,” and It doesn’t make you feel good about yourself. Arm yourself with the facts, and stand up and be counted!

  111. Obama isn’t very good at unity. When will the Republicans ask, “if he can’t unify his own party, how can he unify the country?”

  112. jm, on June 16th, 2008 at 6:02 pm Said:
    Just received a solicitation in the mail from Emily’s List–nowhere in the letter is Barack Obama’s name–just ‘let’s get a Democrat in the White House’ stuff. I think that is real interesting.

    I’m sending it back—NO DEAL

    Excellent. I’m tried of the scam. If the GOP wanted Roe/Wade, Nancy would hand it over after an afternoon of hand wringing and promises to fight “next time”. I wish I was kidding

  113. Nathan, when I am talking about Obama losing in November, what I am talking about is that the DNC went with the weaker candidate. A previous post talked about their strategy without OH and FL. That fact that they can make statements like that and still maintain a straight face is ludicrous.
    I laugh when I hear them say it, but then I get angry, because I realize the DNC knee-capped the party’s chances, then I think about the rigging of the nomination again, and it creates a perfect activist storm in me.
    The party doesn’t represent working class people anymore. It represents the elite, plain and simple.

  114. I’m so grateful to have like-minded people to “hang” with, especially in light of the news I just received.

    After remaining silent throughout the primaries, Al Gore is ENDORSING Obama this evening.


    I just can’t believe it. He was my last hope. How can he do something like this after watching over 18 million Democrats get flipped the bird? I must say, I’m heartbroken. I never expected this from him. He’s a hypocrite, too. Geesh…isn’t anybody out there who believes in AUTHENTIC representation and AUTHENTIC Democracy?

    I have no words…honestly.

  115. Tarnished Star #2? Keith Olbermann Does a Nastier Version of the Bill Richardson “Turn on the Clintons”

    Really,as a fellow Cornellilan, I’m ashamed of this guy…


    He doesn’t get it either…

  116. Do you think PUMA is why Gore is supposed to endorse Obama tonight? That the DNC is starting to get really worried and hope that Gore can defuse and win over some of the PUMAs?

  117. Don’t know if anyone’s commented on it yet, but Obama’s hiring of Patti Solis Doyle is an example of a real loser mentality.
    “Where’s that chick that screwed up the first part of Clinton’s campaign? Get her! Now!”

    Besides, who hires somebody to work for a vp they haven’t even picked yet?

  118. Jan, probably so.

    But that don’t mean JACK SH&T to me. Al Gore can kiss my PUMA ass and I still won’t vote or support Obama.

    In fact, I’m going to throw a candy wrapper outside my car window in protest! F-U Al Gore!

  119. I see Nathan is back an Obamabot I am sure it was a while ago but every so often he rears his head. I hope someone put him in his place.

    Work was tuff today but hey nothing compared to what the PUMA bloggers have to put up with from the O-bot nation.


  120. BB,
    Yes, I am workin’ on a video. And we’re experienced filmmakers. Here is a link to a trailer for the feature I’m just now finishing:

  121. From The Swamp

    …the campaign has hired Democratic strategist Stephanie Cutter to work as chief of staff for Michelle Obama. Her first order of business will be to buff and polish the image of the candidate’s wife, who has been the target of sharp attacks in recent weeks.

  122. Poor AL Gore with this last move of his he betrayed the Clinton’s and everything he and they stood for…Sad but we are resolute-we have set our mind in motion and turned our hearts to steel when it comes to Obama.

    He just sentenced the polar bear to extinction-with Obama’s “Oil Drilling” friends smackingthere gums over drilling in the arctic. I an sure he will rationalize it that the polar bears will not mind bowing out of exsistence if it means Obama gets elected. They understand sacrafices must be made.


  123. I just heard that the last major endorsement from the highest ranking Democrat will be endorsing Obama tonight – Wow, when did President Clinton become a turncoat!


  124. BO’s richard-in-chief is giggling tonight — first came the finger, then the JayZ flick off the shoulder and now Patti Doyle as the VP staffer.

    These people are not just full of themselves with their gloating, they are just plain old-time mean people. Could they be any more “in your face?”

  125. BB – I personally don’t think there is enough Turtle Wax available on the market to buff and shine MO.

  126. Lori,

    Thanks. I can’t wait to see it.

  127. iamnotastepfordwife // June 16, 2008 at 6:22 pm

    It is said hiring Patti is simply a big FU to Hill and I maintain hiring Patti and Al Gore endorsing BO on the same day is not an accident . It’s a big FU all around

  128. I could really give a damn about Gore. He just sold his principles and sold his high road. So glad he isn’t President.

  129. The polar bears can join the LGBT community, Obama’s grandmother, Obama’s former Church, angry white women, bitter blue colar americans who cling to God and Guns, Muslims, Hillary clinton Supporters, the states of Fliorida and Michigan, and people without health care. Hey, Conflu crowd did I forget to include anyone in the “thrown under the bus” catagory?


  130. I’m not the least surprised that Gore hopped on the O-wagon,Until now, he’s been waiting in the wings,until the Obama camp called on him no doubt, to bring all us angry,stubborn, dead-enders into the “unity ” fold, As if!
    I was turned off by Gore’s conspicuous self-serving disloyalty ,and distancing from Bill Clinton during the 2000 campaign. Maybe Dr.Dean and company, are more than a little nervous about” winning us over” ,and believe that if they trot out Al Gore, that will somehow move us in thier direction.
    I don’t give a s@#*t ,who in the democratic party endorses BO,not impressed. When is the notion that Hillary’s supporters actually think for themselves and question their(DNC)authority going to sink in?

  131. Josgirl, somebody from the Clinton camp made a similar comment (from WaPo):

    “Who can blame Obama for rewarding Patti? He would never be the nominee without her,” one person who has worked for both Clintons and remains close to them said.

  132. ohio is under the bus too michael… obambi’s campaign announced they can win with out florida or ohio …

  133. dakinkat,

    thats right it is the Axelrod(fraud) math again. Next they will right off Michigan….next ya think?


  134. Would someone please tell the Obama campaign, that it is really getting crowded under this bus?

  135. How can you save the planet if you can’t even maintain your own reputation, Al?? (to echo Michelle Obama…)

    Al Gore Can Stuff It….(Obama Endorsement)

  136. Re Patti Solis Doyle – BTD at TalkLeft thinks this is a “mistake” and wondered if Axelrod knew about it.

    I just want to scream at him, “What does it take? THEY HATE HER. They are NOT going to ask her to be VP!

    Just get a freaking clue already!”

    Obama is toast in November. Poor BTD has backed the wrong Unity Pony throughout this entire primary, and now I think he is starting to realize it.

  137. Michael – Michigan is where Gore is going to endorse tonight along with telling Michigan “Get under the Bus”

  138. silverlakemom,

    I’ve never been a big admirer of Al Gore. He has done some good work since 2000, and I think he should have just stayed out of politics. Now that he has endorsed Obama, I have to take everything he has said about global warming with a grain of salt. Too bad. He really would have done better to just keep quiet about the presidential race, but I’m sure Howard and Donna twisted his arm. Maybe they have pictures of him filling up his SUV with high test.

  139. Have ya heard that Dodd just declared he did not know that he got a sweetheart loan rate on his home?

    Obama will soon have to come out to tell us Dodd is not the man he thought he was!

    Dodd – under the bus, now!

  140. I don’t see anyone doing a makeover of Cindy McCain. Odd that the Oborg constantly needs to do this, and tweak that, and change this, and bring this person in, and snub this person, and flip off that person, and deny knowing that person, and write off this state, and claim strength in that state.


  141. Obamamath always has to do with some seriously wrong numbers, thuggery, and Axelrod functions …

  142. Michiganders are really big on global warming and fuel standards and cutting back on SUVs.

  143. BTD has redeemed himself from any past and future sins simply by writing this:

    13 days after Hillary Clinton “ripped apart” the Democratic Party by not immediately and effusively apologizing for even running against Barack Obama and endorsing him and threatening violence against her supporters who do not vote for him, Al Gore has decided to endorse Barack Obama:

    That little snide summarizes so well what has been going on throughout this primary, and after June 3rd.

    Good for BTD.

  144. Carol,

    Stephanie Cutter worked for John Kerry in 2004, in charge of “communications.” She is the one who will be handling Michelle Obama. Based on her work for John Kerry, I don’t expect Michelle’s communication skills to improve much.

  145. Al Gore joins the parade of Democratic losers who have endorsed Barry O.
    Today I received my new voter registration card. Under political party is NA.

  146. Carol – I have a 2 nice soft pillows next to me for Nancy and Harry when they are thrown under the bus with us…(ok I lied they are not soft the are full of rusty nails and monogramed ‘I Told You So'”


    Where is Nathan I am ready tonight

  147. Gore is a corporate shill….there, I said it. His whole environment thing seemed to be how corporations could turn it around.( ha!) Hillary is about governments doing it. Even if if there wasn’t bad blood there, their positions are total opposites . Gore is a fraud and I use to admire him very much. But that was before his big FU to Bill when he picked Joe L as his VP. He was an idjit when he ran away from 8 good years, he’s an idjit now .

  148. who is BTD? sorry I missed alot in internet civics


  149. MABlue,

    Talk Left is the only pro-obama site left that I can read. They may be in his camp but they think for themselves and they have principles – unlike virtually everyone else.

  150. Grocery store clerk Joseph Mariano, 52, of Tabernacle and Army veteran Ted Rabeus, 59, of Barnegat, were among Democrats in the audience who said they will vote for McCain.

    “I was for Hillary and I don’t think Obama has any substance to what the says. He hasn’t the experience and he’s too young,” Rabeus said. “While McCain has been a straight talker for years and should have been president instead of Bush eight years ago.” .

  151. I predict that the bowling alley will still be in the white house January 2012-How is that for subtle?

    fuzzybeargville( I bowl 70-100)

  152. MABlue – I agree that was funny. But…Not so fast with BTD…he has said that the reason he wants HRC as Obama’s Veep is to draw rightwing fire away from him.

    Yes, that’s right – BTD thinks HRC should take Obama’s hits for him so that Obama can squeak into the White House. Wow, could that be any more appealing?

    No, I like BTD and all, but I really, really am tired of his pretense that Obama will do anything at all to court HRC’s voters. He won’t. He can win Georgia!!!111!!!

  153. basketball court: i.e. McCain too old. Spend five years on a POW camp you prick. Sorry…

    Oh and BB…good one on Steph Cutter.

  154. that last comment for carol….


  155. Fooj

    Don’t let Gore’s endorsement get you down, of course he would endorese Obama. Frankly I’m surprised he didn’t do it sooner. He has done well in speaking up about his passion, the environment, but he was never a fighter- if he had been he would have been President.
    I remember him hammering away with the mallet on the Senate floor against those who railed at Bush stealing the Presidency, stifling the ones fighting FOR HIM. He heeded the voices of “unity” and tamped dissent to what he had fought and rightfully earned, and our country has paid for his meekness the last eight years. He is a good man and has acquired mythical status in the party because of the 2000 fiasco, but he is a follower not a leader. This primary cycle has been an eye opening experience. No longer valid are assumptions that Republicans are bad and Democrats are good. The masks have slipped and curtains drawn, revealing weak, corrupt, repugnant Democrats just as bad if not worse than the Republicans we despised.

  156. Go Michael Go!


    For a minute the Kool-Aide was taking over my thought processes!

    Obama’s arrogance was making me swoon towards voting for him!

  157. Interesting analysis here. An argument for a divided government, I think.


  158. Michael – BTD is Big Tent Democrat at TalkLeft. 🙂 He’s a very good guy for an Obama supporter, but he needs to give up the HRC-VP dream.

    Nagahapin. The Solis Doyle thing is just the latest indicator.

  159. President McCain will have a spa installed in the white house but after all he has been through-I give him a pass on that. 5 years of being beaten by an agressive enemy can make you muscles ache.

    Oh and remember AZ is the only state to not pass, repeat not pass. an anti gay marriage amendment. John McCain is no good friend of the community but he said there were more important thing this country had to worry about. He did not campaign for theis amendments passage-pissed of the fundies I am sure.


  160. gore was such a bad candidate. he couldnt win his home state. and i will never forget when his campaigned released that gore’s son would be attending Tennessee instead of Harvard. Yeah, that was going to sway a lot of votes. And where did his son end up…besides jail…at Harvard. He is not a mythical figure to america. he is a mythical Cheetoh.

  161. Those Obamabots are so classy. So, if I want to know why he stayed in that church for 20 years, do I get redirected to the website? What a farce. As if I would ever go to the dark and stupid side.

  162. Awwww….leave Big Al alone. I think he is chasing the mythical Unity Pony.

    The Obamans are very, very worried about us PUMAs!


  163. I am beginning to think that the government is run by one person, The Wizard of Oz. Or someone behind a curtain pulling strings. How else to explain this unvetted love affair with Mr. Chicago politics?

    It is not enough that Gore proclaims his support: it has to be done with such fanfare. This gesture is made for the female support to make it back into the fold. Aren’t we all just blown away by global warming? And what about the kids and their future?

    Just another case of pandering, schmandering.

  164. Some of this may be moderate to conservative democrats (Joe Lieberman Democrats) who for various reasons (including, but probably not limited to race) found Hillary acceptable but not Obama.

    Mr. Obama, the reason I will never, ever vote for you has nothing to do with the color of your skin, and everything to do with the content of your character.

  165. Denise: And if you remember it was Maxine Waters who he had to gavel against since she was the one who insisted on counting the votes. Of course she turned tail and backed Obama in the end so I guess those lost votes don’t mean as much since they benefited him the end.

  166. madamb- you are right they must be very very worried-heard that they will have Jesus endorse Senator Obama next -they are working on the logistics of the location Mr Axelrod suggested the B’nai Isreal retirement center in Boca Raton….


  167. I don’t think Al Gore should receive ANY fire at all for endorsing Obama.

    He was careful enough to stay out of it, and didn’t jump in to endorse BO when that could have made life even worse for Hillary (OK I agree, Hillary’s life could not have been worse as a Democratic candidate).

  168. Pat

    So true. Like I said -an eye opening experience….

  169. I amy have to attend that endorsement party-On the other hand I also here JC is hold out for the short list as VP.


  170. “I will do everything I can to assure Barack Obama becomes president”. Al Gore quoted on HuffPo.

    “I will do everything I can to assure Barack Obama does not become president”. Pat Johnson quoted on Confluence

  171. The Obama supporter on this blog has questions about us too.

  172. I was hoping Al would sit out a while longer, but……….. I think the Losers for Obama T-shirt is getting too full for even a Pamela Anderson.

  173. Well I dont feel like answering his questions. Hey, I havve not gotten one request from Obama for America for money…I feel ignored I geve a good little chunck to Hillary…


  174. MABlue, I just don’t see why he had to endorse, though ,when the primary is already over. It feels really awkward. I really thought Gore was going to stay out of the whole thing since he was cultivating the enviornmentalist image. Now he’s back in the political mud, and I guess he is telling us that Nuclear is the way to go.
    My gut tells me it is a favor called in to try and make more UNITY.

  175. Carol: Funny video but not far from the truth. His candidacy has been treated either as religious fervor or royal right. Either way, he still remains an arrogant empty suit.

  176. Even more hysterical and to the point!


  177. Mawn:

    Al Gore is one of the party’s elder statesman. He HAS TO endorse the presumptive nominee of his party, just like Hillary HAD TO throw her support behind Obama.

    It’s part of the protocol and I don’t see it as a big deal, considering that he’s doing it when it doesn’t really matter.

  178. Well, I’m with MABlue. Cut Gore some slack. There was definitely no love lost between Gore & Clinton, which is why Gore didn’t have Clinton campaign for him in 2000. If he was truly a vindictive dick, he would have endorsed Obama much earlier. However, as an SD, Gore was going to be called on at some point to declare. Personally, Edwards’ endorsement WEEKS ago, still has me steaming. Hillary’s positions are so much closer to Edwards and there was absolutely, positively no reason for him to endorse anyone – he’s not an SD. He could have kept his opinions to himself.

  179. #MABlue, on June 16th, 2008 at 7:13 pm Said:

    I don’t think Al Gore should receive ANY fire at all for endorsing Obama.

    He was careful enough to stay out of it, and didn’t jump in to endorse BO when that could have made life even worse for Hillary (OK I agree, Hillary’s life could not have been worse as a Democratic candidate).

    I agree.

  180. As a super delegate Gore more than likely needs to support the “presumptive” but I am appalled at the fanfare involved. To be given at a speech The One is delivering in Detroit tonight. This type of announcement and the fanfare attached is bothersome.

    Why bother with an August convention? Leaving Hillary off the first ballot is already telegraphing that he is assured enough votes on the first ballot so why not the coronation now?

    Just picturing all these traitors lined up on the stage in Denver with the balloons and confetting reigning down is enough to turn my stomach. And Hillary will probably be still outside circling the area for a parking space by the time the curtain comes down. I won’t be watching; too painful.

  181. Officially, cutting Al Gore slack.

    Enough rope to …?

  182. Maum,

    That is adtnext, who posted nasty comments here last week. He has gone over to the dark side and thinks we should go with him. I never even knew he had a blog. Two comments on that post.

  183. Carol, on June 16th, 2008 at 6:54 pm Said:
    Okay, somebody hold me back from smashing things:



    Gosh, and here was me hoping a candidate might be planning, oh, say, universal health care if elected. How very 1993 of me.

    He even shows some love about waffles in that story. He does have quite the thing for waffles, does he not?

  184. Pat,

    If they really leave Hillary off the first ballot, I think they are asking for trouble. There could be a large walkout of delegates, or there might be a lot of “present” votes. It would look a lot better for Obama and the DNC if he actually won the vote, but maybe they are scared delegates would switch to Hillary and he might not win in the end?

  185. fuzzy, did you bring a gun or a knife?

  186. The DNC must be in big financial trouble. That Gore letter begged for money in every second line.

  187. Mawm and parentofed –
    sorry to change subject the Ed Rendell Quote about Obama saying “…we just need the checks” some one please get the source to hireheels I just gave them a email on my analysis of it this is important because I forgot. should right these things down.


  188. Fuzzybear has his big bear claws doesnt need a knife

  189. Just a thought – I’m not Jewish but didn’t he throw them under the bus with the rest of us – it’s so crowded here now – anybody Jewish here with us????

  190. Just don’t get why the DNC is still so desperate for cash. I thought The Precious had a bottomless bank account.

    So what gives? Have his reserves dried up? Enquiring minds want to know.

    Also somewhat disappointed in Gore, but happy he didn’t do this two months ago.

    p.s. Obama will never, ever win Tennessee. Most of the other delegates from here are still undeclared, except for our jackass DINO governor, who most assuredly has been told he is on the short list for VP.

    p.s. again – TN, MO, OH have voted for the winner in every election since 1960. I dunno about his polls in MO, but as far as TN and OH – Obama’s toast. Yay!

  191. Carol, on June 16th, 2008 at 7:28 pm Said:
    Hysterical and to the point!



    Good link, thankee!

  192. Earth to Obama – no one, not one single or married person wants you to choose Senator Clinton for VP.

    She will be the President!

  193. Eleanor A,

    I doubt if Obama can carry MO after the Rev. Wright thing. The last I heard he was behind McCain there. As it was, he didn’t win by much in the primary. He won with the AA vote in the cities, which will be diluted in the GE.

  194. I’m American Indian and Jewish – my whole family has been under the bus for months!

  195. Sorry – didn’t see you – I’m getting old and my glasses were dirty – I got kicked to the curb & then thrown under the bus – let’s have our own party – BTW – heard they had to go out & recruit peeps to come to the stadium for the big come-out party for *61 & Gore………maybe that’s where the money went – paid for attendees to their party………………

  196. Is it me or does Al Gore look like a corpse in that photo? Must explain the endorsement!

  197. Why Carol, do you think they locked him up without food and water until he caved? What picture? I missed that somehow. Could you tell me who posted the link so I can find it?

  198. Carol its getting comfy under here I am lighting a camp fire and we are toasting som’ores….


  199. Luv you guys – when I start feeling sorry for myself cuz of all the crap that’s happened – I come here & read the comments and you just make me laugh & I feel better – thanks…………………………

  200. ok, they’ve quit ignoring us, and they no longer laugh at us. now they’re fighting us. all in 16 days.

    I would be very careful about how far to allow the media (including dKos) to define PUMA as equalling this Just Say No Deal group.

    They’ve pop up and immediately Kos recognizes them and sort of props them up as our leaders.

    Forgive me for assuming they’re up to something, but I’m assuming they’re always up to something. I don’t mind admitting I fear being ‘played’ the way IMO blacks and college kids were ‘played’ – manipulated and used seems to be the standard mode of operation for Obama guys. I don’t want the ‘puma movement’ to end up discredited the way Larry Johnson was discredited. It’s naive to think they won’t try to infiltrate and sabotage and redirect and usurp.

    So no, I don’t think suddenly going from totally ignored to getting lots of attention in 16 days is automatically a good sign.

  201. DeniseB and stillife:

    Nothing wrong with being a stealthy PUMA, silent and dangerous. I have the feeling there are many stealth-PUMAs who visit the Confluence daily as I do, read but do not post, share PUMA values but for whatever reason can’t speak them widely. I think of myself as a stealth-PUMA for other reasons as well: since I only own a cell-phone I am never polled; since I contribute to campaigns (Hillary, Kerry last time, Gore before that) but not directly to the DNC, I am hard to track; since I appear to fit the demographic Obama thinks he owns (mixed-race, college-educated liberal) I might seem to be securely his. I am not. I enjoy all aspects of the PUMA movement, but perhaps this part most of all: the other side just doesn’t see a lot of us coming.

    Surprise is delicious. I am looking forward to calling the DNC and explaining to them that this is normally the time in an election cycle when I double my contributions to the Democratic candidate, and why this year I will contriubuting no money, other than my continued contributions to Hillary Clinton’s campaign. Conflucians, is there any way PUMA and Just Say No Deal could organize, a la MoveOn, a particular day when we flood the DNC with such calls? It would extra delicious (sound of PUMA smacking her lips).

    In any case, greetings to all you stealth-PUMAs out there. You know who you are; and you matter. And thanks to all the Conflucians who make it possible for all of us to meet in this place. I am proud to have been part of your first million.

  202. We have been assured by Rasmussen polling that Obama will be getting 100% of the Dead Population, and 100% of the Pet Population – I will let you decide which category Gore now belongs in!


  203. One thing to watch for in terms of a new Obot strategy:

    Beware of some posters who say, “I don’t care if you don’t vote for Obama and write in Hillary’s name just don’t vote for McCain.”

    Different states have different rules regarding write in votes. If you write in a name, some states count that toward the party nominee.

    So in essence, Obama receives your vote.

  204. Michael – I must be at the back of the bus – can’t see the camp fire or smell the smores!

  205. Bonita very good advise-we must employ different stratgies in different states…..I live in florida a battleground state no mater what axelfraud says….I may have no other choice but to play the McCain Card…we will have to see…


  206. jacilyn,

    There are a lot of different PUMAs out there now. The provenance for P.U.M.A was established here by Riverdaughter, but it quickly spread, and people are using it in their own way. That doesn’t bother me.
    As long as your walking the right way, I’ll walk with you.

    JustSayNoDeal is a portal to other sites that are all saying NO to Obama.
    That is the bottom line with that coalition.

  207. Carol –

    see my above post I have to my left a nice fluffy pillow to my left for Mayor/future gov Gavin Newsom and on my right to pillows full of rusty nails waiting for Nancy Pelosi and Howard Dean. And the som’ores and red wine are in front of ready as appitizers fort all….


  208. jacilyn,

    I don’t think Kos has noticed us at all? Did he write something about “Just say no deal?” The diary I wrote about above didn’t get much attention there. If you have seen other discussion at DK, would you please let me know when it was and some keywords to search with? I’d be interested to see what was said.

  209. well my buddy moose approaches we are going for a healthy 41/4 mile walk tonight carry on and plese some one get over to hireheels and let the folks with the shoes knwow where the rendell quote was sourced-the one about “…we just need the checks…”


  210. O.K. gang, here’s what I did for democracy today. I responded to an Email I got from Al Gore asking for donations to Barack Obama’s Campaign. I’d like to encourage others to do the same – let Al know how you feel about his endorsement.

    Also got a letter from the Obama Campaign in the mail today, again, asking for money. I will not dignify it with a response.

    Note: I was going to post my letter here, with my name redacted, but after reading some of the previous cautionary posts, I’m starting to feel a bit paranoid.

    Al’s Email address: AlGore@algore.com

    He can tell somebody: There’s trouble in Obama DNC Paradise…

  211. dakinikat. @ 4:46…. was that the correct link for the Fox poll showing Obama’s falling favorables? It was dated April.

  212. Chicago politics!

  213. We don’t really say anything, we just point and laugh.

  214. “Larger and more active”??

    Cheetos, you have no idea.

    I am SO enjoying returning each and every DNC and Obama solicitation that I receive.

    I was going to put them all together in an envelope, but now I’m sending them back separately.

    On one I wrote — Hillary needs to be on the ballot in Denver.

    On another I wrote — DNC & Obama need to profusely apologize for the sexism in this campaign, and address their failure to oppose it.

    the next — commit to ratifying ERA.

    then, no caucuses, reform primaries.

    then — no moving the Dems to Chicago.

    It goes on and on, and it’s really fun.

    someone from NARAL called me up and asked for a donation, and I was SO pleased to give her an earful about how I’d be giving to Planned Parenthood instead.

    She sounded like she’d heard that story before. :)))

  215. ben carlson, on June 16th, 2008 at 4:39 pm Said:
    It’s sad what has become of the democratic party. They are trying to replicate the Republicans as best they can.

    I’ve been thinking the same thing myself – instead of getting behind a proven winner (or winners, counting Bill) who wins even though she always fights fairly, ethically and honestly, they instead decided to take the easy way out and assume the tactics of the other side.

  216. There’s so much projection in the Obama camp it should be called the IMAX campaign.

    Flashy, with impressive visuals and sound, but don’t expect any substance.

  217. Anyone else written to Al yet? I told him, “not one red cent” to Obama or the DNC, instead, I’d focus on paying off Hillary’s campaign debt.

    If enough people write, he may well telegraph what’s going on out here in the real world.

  218. Already wrote to Al. He now knows how much less I respect him for not backing the truly green candidate when it mattered. He also knows he won’t be getting a red cent from me. Ah, well, they live, gamble, and learn.

  219. I wish the PTB in the party would pull the Obamabots aside and tell them to calm down. They seem to be the last ones let in on the fact that nobody, not Dean, not Pelosi, none of them really think Obama can win. Please break it to them gently before they alineate voters so much we lose the House and Senate as well.

  220. I email Al to say what are we to think about global warming when you backed the candidate who voted for the Bush/Cheney energy bill.

  221. Hello, regencyg – Glad to hear you wrote to Al, too. Good observation about their living and learn. Reminds me of the line from the song, “Where Have All The Flowers Gone?”:

    When will they ever learn? When will they ever learn?

    I pray the American public will learn and discern more of the truth about Obama in time for the Denver Convention, and force the Super Delegates to reconsider.

  222. Sue Ward asked, “ anybody Jewish here with us????” Answer: of course! One of THE top most serious threats B.O. and his ilk present is to, not just Israel (which he regards as a major “sore” causing other countries to hate us), but to Jewish Americans. His comfort level with, nay reverence for (at least the power of) Farrakhan (he learned so much from the million man march!)—and incidentially, he and Michelle were at the dinner honoring him—and his years of cozying up with pro-Palestinian extremists, and an assortment of (at least borderline) anti-semitic pals is a great source of worry to the Jewish community (I can give web sources if anyone’s interested).
    Lieberman is certainly correct on this score. Look, the man wants to promote Trinity-style African Liberation churches throughout the nation (Rev Moss is bemoaning a possible weakening of this fervent goal due to some people not appreciating Wright’s bringing Pfleger in the other day, supposedly, to help patch up Trinity’s image (I mean this is how they think!)

    On Gore—the man is spineless. Doubtless he regards Clinton (Bill) as largely responsible for his loss and is scarcely a hapless bystander in all this. If he had just come our with a shred, just a SHRED, of decency for Hillary when she was being so unfairly mauled—just ONCE—, he would have shown he had a smidgeon of character. Now he’s just happy as a clam to have B.O. promise him an “important place” (as he put it) in his administration! He’s a worm!

  223. Hello, bonita – Your message to Al: love it!

  224. Al Bore is irrelevant.

    Hell, he couldn’t even get the votes for him in Florida counted.

  225. Oh apologies, I mean, uhm, you know, uhh, Gore.


  226. I saw an anti-McCain message delivered by John Cusack in a political commercial on TV this evening. The commercial was funded by Move-On.com. Move-On is owned by George Soros. I think the commercial was targeting us.

  227. My wife just got a letter from the Obama campaign asking for money. We scrawled on the card Hillary Forever! and mailed it back using the return envelope and let them pay for the return postage.

  228. BO runs a classy campaign full of race card & misogyny. Classy indeed.

  229. They don’t think much of us. I went over to MyDD today. Why, I do not know, but I did find this diary from today from a formerly regular poster at HillarysVoice. “PUMA: Anti-Progressive, Anti-Democratic, Anti-Hillary” http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/6/16/17395/8846

    There is even a call-out to this site. I am calling out the pertinent quote here.

    “Ever since January, The Confluence has been a must-read for me. Back when it was a pro-Hillary blog, I loved to escape to this refuge from the nastiness present at major progressive blogs like Daily Kos. But over time, I’ve noticed a subtle change at this and other soon-to-be “PUMA” sites like No Quarter. Over time, my once favorite blogs became less pro-Hillary and more anti-Obama. And now, these sites have become just as nasty in their anti-Obama zeal as Kos was anti-Hillary.

    They just don’t get it.

  230. I am in kool-aid country (SF). I flew in tonight and had the pleasure of sitting next to a young hyper fancy couple with three impeccable children. He was an Arts professor at one of the state universities and she looked like she was a stay at home mom — I made the mistake of talking politics — they in their smug way told me the usual thing Obama supporters say — I like his policies, he is closer to my way of thinking… But what about FL and MI? The wife says well, he was not on the ballot..he did not campaign.. the husband says well he got the most votes, you have to count the caucuses, they were both well qualified and he won and we all have to support the democrat. What about what DNC is doing? I don’t know about any of that…

    Well, it kind of became confrontational a little bit. So we stopped talking.

    To appreciate Clinton, you have to get past the fact that she is a Clinton (whatever that means) and these people are not capable of doing that. They are also not into women’s rights — if they were they would treat her as an individual (a remarkable one at that) and give her a fair shake.

  231. “independant noncomformist”

    perfect description of me in evey sense… it was preordained that I be a puma! 😉

  232. i just posted this on my blog, but wanted to post it here as well to get it to a broader audience:

    very interesting article in new york magazine. john heilemann analyses hillary’s campaign and draws on some very revealing late interviews. i can’t argue with his timeline or his characterisation of the candidate. she became a progressively better politician, able to rouse crowds with every greater dramatic oratory and emotion as the campaign went on and it seemed less and less likely that she could win. but it was then, at those moments, that the crowd and her supporters loved her and her incredible charisma was felt (yes, i know it sounds hard to imagine hillary as charismatic — but that is exactly what she was). her charismatic style allowed her to meld progressive populism with working-class voters, resurrecting the roosevelt coalition and allowing me to see that mighty beast in action for the first time in my lifetime. in her hands it was an awesome army.

    during her the last few election speeches i’m not afraid to admit i had tears in my eyes, a reaction i have never had for any other political figure ever. something happened when hillary found her voice, decided to say what she wanted and became the avenger and defender of the poor and the weak that utterly transformed her. i remember sitting with my partner scott and watching her, seeing the crowd, listening to the words and seeing her face — absolutely radiant above the crowd — smiling as she was speaking: free, powerful and beautiful. i think i had an idea of what argentines may have sensed with eva peron: here was a woman who knew how to connect with people (in the fact of a media black-out, or furious demands that she just shut the f*ck up) and make them know that she wants the best for them and that everyone knows she will fight to the end to take care of them.

    that’s possibly what the british saw in lady diana, possibly the argentines in eva peron. and it made me realise how much of our allegiances in politics are personailsed and tribal and how badly adapted our system is for dealing with that.

    and it made the end, with the squalid lawyerly fraud being perpetrated by the rbc to game a few votes here and there, and the pundits all talking about math instead of loyalty or ideas, it made it harder for the press to be able to connect their tawdry small games (no we did not want some slickly packaged suit, no we did not want words about hope from a man who thrives on corruption) with what we were living in our heads and in the last days of the campaign when we had all found our voices together. that’s why we don’t accept the gamed outcome and it’s why we will always remain part of hillary’s army.

  233. Liberty Belle Not For Obama
    Thanks for the Gore email address.
    Here’s the letter I sent him this morning:

    Dear Vice-President Gore,

    I have always had the greatest respect for you. I even voted for you 3 times. Twice as VP and once for president.

    I have respected and admired your work for our planet. Which leaves me somewhat puzzled about why you would endorse a candidate that believes we can use nuclear power. Do you now believe that nuclear power is all right? Because quite honestly sir, I do not.

    I guess in the long run, you are just another politician. Nothing wrong with that I guess. I just thought you had found a voice that encompassed the world, not just the damn party. Sorry that you think that party comes before country.

    I guess from now on I’ll save my money and donate only to “real” enviromentalists”. Cause like Religion and Politics, Enrviromentalists and Politicians aren’t a good fit.

    Disappointedly yours,

    Marjorie Swanson
    Kenosha, WI


  234. “I think it’s just easier to fight the “he’s all talk and no substance” accusation with a polite, non-condescending direction to check out all his positions on his website.”

    This is just so beautiful in so many ways and shows why some of these people support Senator Obama.

    Just like Senator Obama occasional votes and talk equals doing more for the Jewish people than ANYONE, posting on the internet equals actual substance and action!

  235. londonamerican,

    That was beautiful and true.

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