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Your questions answered about Just Say No Deal

You can accomplish much if you don’t care who gets the credit.”

I don’t know who made that quote up but it is apropos of what Just Say No Deal is about. There were a lot of questions about Just Say No Deal on the previous thread and as I and Mawn and Kbird were on the call, I thought we’d provide the answers. (Mawm, Kbird, jump in at any time)

Here’s what I know:

What is Just Say No Deal?

Just Say No Deal is a coalition of bloggers, activists and other grassroots organizations whose goal is to stop Obama and the takeover of the Democratic party by the Dean Democrats and the Chicago machine. It came into being shortly after Hillary’s suspension speech last week when a group of blogs and activists held their first conference call.

Who is Will Bowers and who appointed him god of PUMA?

Will Bower is just another blogger. We should all just chill about various blog sites using PUMA. It turns out to be very, VERY effective. SM should take a bow for coming up with the concept. The symbol of the puma will soon be as recognizable as the donkey and the elephant. It stands for watchfulness, patience, and attacking when the time is right. Anyway, there are numerous PUMA sites springing up all over the place. It’s catchy and viral and gosh darn, it’s just the thing we needed. So, we are Conflucians but we are also a part of the PUMA movement. And no, Bowers doesn’t represent us when he says he is planning to vote for McCain and we made it clear to him tonight that that is not our plan. Our plan is to remain detached from both parties, to withhold our votes. to make those votes worth something, to make them valuable. If we give them away in the name of unity, we accomplish nothing. The parties need to start soliciting us for votes. That is where our power is. If they ignore us, if they try to take us out, they will pay in November.

Why is Bowers our official spokesman?

He’s not. He just happens to live in DC and he was able to snag some media attention.

What is the action plan for Just Say No Deal?

Friends, there is a point in a grassroots organization when there is a decision to *have* a grassroots organization. That is where we are. However, time is of the essence so while we are in the planning stages, we must also make our voices heard. We need to take advantage of all the free media that we can get to spread the word. Our first goal is to let as many people as possible know that we are not just rolling over, that we care deeply about what happens to the party and that the other 18 million of us are not alone. There are many, many others who feel the need to do something. The process the DNC used to take Clinton out was planned. It was probably in the works before the primaries started. We don’t need to get too conspiratorial here. There is plenty of circumstantial evidence that points to plans to elect the anti-Clinton candidate. But what do we do about it? Well, at this point, the superdelegates are probably out of our reach. They have either been paid off or intimidated. Writing to them may be of little use. But what if our movement grows stronger? There is already noise from the Obama machine suggesting that we are making them nervous. Good. Let’s keep it up. That’s means we’re being effective.

Why is the website only half done?

The website is being put together by some marketing and PR gurus. They put that baby together in about 24 hours. There is a lot of filling in to do. If you want to see what Diane and her crew are capable of, go to HireHeels. It’s pretty impressive. Tonight’s conference call was a brainstorming session. There were a lot of ideas flying around and that seems chaotic. But I have confidence that Just Say No Deal is in competent hands and with our help, we can turn ourselves into a sophisticated online presence.

Why virtual?

Just Say No Deal is not ruling out real time, on the ground activism. But at the present time, we are interested in building a movement, a collection of sites and millions of people to say, “Here we are. We’re ordinary voters. Each one of us is one of 18 million. We are not signing onto the illegitimate nomination of Barack Obama. And this nominating process isn’t over until WE say it’s over.” When the time comes for rallies and protests, we will be there as well but our most important goal is to be an online organization ala MoveOn.

So, there you have it. That is some of what I learned tonight. Some of us have already volunteered to help fill in those pages, make entries in databases, confront the media, gather information, make viral videos, register ourselves as the appropriate action committees, distribute opposition research and prepare rapid response emails. There are going to be bumps along the way and we must get our act together quickly. But the bottom line is although we all may have different voting strategies in November, we are united in one thing right now: we will not be silenced by our own party. Our votes are our own. The Democrats are not entitled to them. And there is power in a union.

147 Responses

  1. My take on this is that PUMA is a coalition.

    It includes some who intend to vote for John McCain, and others who simply intend to not vote for Barack Obama.

    Some people will donate their time and money, others will simply sit-out this Presidential election.

    IOW – We don’t need to agree on everything to be PUMA’s

  2. myiq: thank you for summing things up so neatly. You are correct. We are a movement of people who will not be bullied into handing over our votes.

  3. We do need to let the Demoicartic Party Elders know we reject their selection of BO and we renounce them.

  4. Similar to the United Front Against Fascism in the 1930s.

    (What bloggers claimed to be building years ago.)

  5. That should read democratic – sorry.

    We can be the the PUMAcataric Party as in BIG change.

  6. Thanks for the clarification, RD! It strikes me that this is the start of something big. There is always chaos at the beginning of any venture, but that does not mean the venture is not worthwhile, or cannot become organized and extremely powerful.

    P.U.M.A.! 🙂

  7. No to Chicago Politics!

    OT: Please add alegre’s corner to the blog roll.

  8. They think PUMA is a GOP scam over at MyDD. They obsess about it.

  9. PUMAs on the prowl…

    Be afraid, be very afraid

  10. WS: do you have a link? Because it seems that Alegre is everywhere these days. If she has her own little corner now, I haven’t been there yet but would be more than happy to add it.

  11. Melanie: LOL! Too funny. No, from the people who were in on the conference call, I feel pretty confident that they were not GOP.

  12. “myiq’ you definately “pinned-it-down” perfectly!
    “RD” thanks again for this great site!
    I had communicated with Will & Cristi last week. They both seemed very nice & committed to “our” cause.
    I had suggested getting “Greta of Fox” or someone like that to give “us” the oppurtunity to “state Hillary’s case to the SD’s”.
    Many of “us” felt we were “cheated” out of making that “valid” argument of “ELECTIBILITY”.
    “just a thought”

  13. RD, I know. They are angry at us desenters. It’s not just Obamacans who are angry. DCDemocrat thinks we’re deadenders. 🙂

  14. Alegre will be posting at her own site. I think she’s said adios to MyDD.

  15. I’d like to make a suggestion. A large part of the PUMA seems to be reactionary against Obama and what happened. That’s all well and good, but as I’ve been harping about for some time now, a real progressive movement (and Progressive blogosphere 2.0) should be about the affirmation of principles.

    I believe that PB1.0 fizzled and died is because they were anti-Bush and could only survive with bogeymen. I don’t want to see PB2.0 suffer a similar fate. In addition to the implementation steps that need to be done, I’d like to see more focus on our intellectual framework. You’ll be hearing more and more and more about that from me now that I have a little more time.

  16. “goal is to stop Obama and the takeover of the Democratic party by the Dean Democrats and the Chicago machine”

    I like that, but they need an acronym, too. How about Dirty Undemocratic Democrats or DUDs?

  17. gqmartinez,

    I 100% agree with you.

    The election is four months away. For anyone who is serious about stopping the takeover, all I can say is that the showdown is at the polls. The work the BO organizers are doing (see previous thread) — the 67 year olds in dorms, fanning out in Amtrak stations is core.

    A real progressive movement is on a different timescale and development via the web makes more sense.

  18. gqmartinez, agreed. I’ve been arguing that for weeks. I don’t want to become the echo chamber old netroots is.

  19. How about the ideals of FDR/Truman/Bill Clinton and the New Deal brought to the 21st century?

  20. Riverdaughter,

    Thanks for answering our questions. A loose coaltion like this sounds great to me. This is going to give us more visibility on the web and let’s hope PUMA continues to get more TV coverage. This is exciting.

  21. EDIT: should say Bill & Hillary Clinton

  22. gqmartinez: I hear you and I am more hopeful about this new movement precisely because it *is* a reaction against something- the violation our Democratic principles. I believe everyone of the people in that call is genuinely repulsed not so much by Obama but by the way the democratic process was subverted. If the primaries were fixed before the season even began, where was our input, free will, enfranchisement? If it was all an exercise in futility it is something that must NEVER happen again. Either the DNC gets right with us now or we will be forced to tear it down and rebuild it in our image, reinforcing the principles of the greatest Democrats of the 20th century. There is no reason to tear down our foundations when they are solid. We can build on them and expand. What is that quote about standing on the shoulders of giants? That is what we want the Democratic party to be. Not some Chicago machine dancing around the broken body of Ozymandius.

  23. If I’ve already signed on at PUMApac or elsewhere, do I need to also join at JustSayNoDeal? Or it that duplicating?

  24. GAgal: Bookmark the site. Consider it a clearinghouse of actions, news and other information.

  25. Well, I’m a bit repulsed by Obama. I just saw Neil Covuto interviewing the JustSayNoDeal woman, snd her point was she can not support the less qualified candidate. I feel exactly that.

  26. Even a blind hog finds an acorn now and then. This first step has found a bushel basket of acorns.

    While my rose colored glasses are really just bloodshot eyes, I think this is a great first step — merely convening a conference call on a Sunday evening with interested parties is a huge first step.

    If nothing else, this first step will get some media coverage albeit not the truly deserving people, but getting the message out is what is important at this point.

    I would point to a couple of things evidenced in the polls — BO’s bump is about half what it should be by historical standards and more importantly, the number of undecided has increased in the last week. That is important — as long as fluidity increases in an election year like this one the worse it is on the highwaymen who call themselves the DNC. Down ticket candidates might be well advised to get out their mop rags.

  27. madamab,

    I agree with you. In my experience, confusion is an important part of any growth process, from individual personal growth, to group processes. I think confusion is an integral early phase. At least I have found this to be true both in writing and playing music.

  28. The loose coalition idea is very good. We need to remember that different people will choose different actions. The goal is to “stop Obama and the takeover of the Democratic party by the Dean Democrats and the Chicago machine,” and we must remember there are many paths leading to that same goal.

  29. re: being about something for than “Nobama”

    sorry kids, but forget that. It doesn’t work. The progressive blogosphere was created in opposition to the Bush administration, and was supposed to have evolved into being about progressive politics, etc…

    and we just saw what a miserable failure that was — how almost all of these “progressives” turned into fauxgressives, and simply became a mirror image of the right wing blogosphere — simply spewing predigested talking points and being part of an echo chamber.

    Lets concentrate on what we are, and leave it at that, and forget about building some larger movement.

    We’re democrats (and former democrats) who refuse to support Obama. That’s what we ALL agree on, and that is all we have to agree on to be effective.

  30. It’s so simple: OUR VOTES ARE OUR OWN. We don’t owe them to anyone and we don’t need to state our preference to anyone. Voting is private. But we can say that we are NOT voting for Obama.

  31. PLUK: I would agree with you. We have one goal to stop Barack Obama and all that goes with him. We don’t want money, we don’t want prestige, we don’t want to be pundits. We want the best president we can get. We are altruistic. We are looking out for the good of the country and not ourselves. I just hope that people connected with this movement don’t get caught up in the DC madness.

  32. RD sorry missed the new thread I am glad it went up just emailed Diane@ hireheels to let her know I am onboard how about a letters to the editor campaign in our local papers.

    Its a grassroots Idea and may Hillary Clinton supporters could be reached that do not know we are out here…also if letters started appearing in 100-200 papers accoross towns and cities it might raise some eyebrows in the big media.

    Fuzzybeargville

  33. Do we know when Hill will reappear? I hope she does not do anything for BO. She doesn’t owe him a damn thing.

  34. Paul: You are right. Right now, the simpler the message, the better. However, we shouldn’t want to portray ourselves as simply being negative about something. Our negativity is a reaction to a violation of something we hold dear.
    But yes, simple is good right now and is a good starting point.

  35. RD, I agree with you that our votes are valuable. I don’t know how I’m going to use mine yet, but I’m not ready to go Repub, and will continue to protest — to all of it! I like that groups, bloggers, et al are joining forces, as we’re stronger collectively. I think a lot of people just don’t know what to do, and they will have a place to land — at least online.

    While moveon has become a strong online phenomenon (understatement), they’ve also built their base through parties hosted in members fabulous homes–at least the ones I went to–featuring great food, web casts, and message-movies, including “Out-Foxed.” Same people would volunteer at phone banks in people’s homes. I was a member in Berkeley when they first started, and was still with them after I moved to NYC–until they endorsed Obama. They very effectively organized w/ online party invites, lots of email and online petition and phone campaigns directed at Congress, and local protest events.

    Onward!!!

  36. If anyone seriously thinks we are a scam by the GOP, they are seriously paranoid. Oh…I think another thing we can do…if just for fun…is to f&*% with Obama supporters. If you see them registering voters or at a booth at a fair or somewhere, toy with them. Waste their time. Let them think they have you and then pounce like a PUMA.

  37. Lady Boomer: Just Say No Deal wants to have Cocktail parties. Gee, where did that come from? 😉

  38. ben: You really are devious. I love it.

  39. BTW: speaking of registering voters, there was a blogger from an Ohio group who said that Obama was recently in the area visiting nursing homes and requesting absentee ballots. This is before his coronation and before a single ballot has been printed. They really are evil SOBs. Florida is going to be crawling with the bastards. That is not something I want to see. We have to head them off.

  40. a real progressive movement (and Progressive blogosphere 2.0) should be about the affirmation of principles

    I couldn’t agree more with gqmartinez. I don’t exepct (from a perusal of some of the Just Say No Deal blogroll) they’re all on board but I appreciate that The Confluence started with a credo and I think it’s extremely important. I watched blogosphere 1.0 go from warbloggers (pro and anti) to basically swarming on favorite candidates (mostly based on personality and nearly all male) and running scorched-earth campaigns against their opponents in which any tactic was acceptable and facts, irrelevant.

  41. We do need PUMA bumper stickers, no?

  42. sorry all the typo’s fuzzy sleepy going to bed

    Sweet dreams to all and you all know my sweet dream wishes to you…my prayer for this evening:

    May our Creator father mother God watch over every one of you-and especially our Dear Hillary the real Mother of the PUMA movement may she one day embrace what she has created. May we sooner rather than later have her as our president. We implore the help of the devine but thy will be done.

    Amen

    Giid night all love fuzzybeargville

  43. RD…they are so easy to play with because they want SOOO badly for everyone to agree with them. That is something I tell anyone I can. Screw with their heads. When the Ohio Democratic Party called me the other day wanting money…I let off a lot of steam. Of course, the Ohio party was good for Hillary but they were trying to raise $ for Obama. I let the caller, a former Kucinich supporter, have it! he must have debated me for 15 minutes. He totally wasted his time. So if they call you….don’t reject them right away. Listen, feign interest, ask lots of questions, and the pounce like a PUMA and rip the jugular.

  44. Paul, I recognize that both Clinton and Obama’s supporters come from the left, right, and center of the party, so it will be hard for all of us to agree, but I think there are some pretty basic issues, like, say, cleaning house at the DNC, severely limiting the number of caucuses, making sure that each state is represented in the process, things like that.

  45. I don’t know, I am starting to think I need to plan to be in Denver for the convention. I have a feeling it’s going to be wild.

  46. Nite all.

  47. oop sorry saw RD talk about nursing homes in florida and Obamist trying to take advantage of the old folks I live in florida let me kn ow what I can do….

    now off to bed

    Fuzzybeargville

  48. I’m a life-long Democrat, but just received this from my local Congressman, a Republican. What in the world is Congress doing? Another example of Clinton-bashing by the Democrats. I have voted for one Republican in my entire life, but will never support Obama and plan to vote for McCain as a protest. Beyond that have no idea who to vote for yet, but I think we need to put our country before party. Interesting that this Republican praises Bill Clinton for welfare reform and treats him with more respect than his own party!! Here’s the letter:

    Dear Friend,

    Do you think taxpayers should pay for up to nine months of unemployment benefits after holding a job for only two weeks?

    Sounds crazy, doesn’t it? But it’s actually what would happen under legislation that just passed the House.

    In the 1990s, President Bill Clinton worked with Congress to pass bipartisan welfare reform, landmark legislation that helped our economy by encouraging work — and more importantly — dignity for thousands of Americans. Welfare reform in Illinois is widely seen as one of the great legislative achievements. Instead of addressing the need for bipartisan legislation to lower gas prices, the House is attempting to reverse President Clinton’s legacy by rebuilding a taxpayer-funded culture of dependency in America.

    This is an example of why we need reform in Washington.

    Instead of targeting relief for those hit hardest, the House approved a $14 billion spending bill to give nine months of unemployment benefits to people who held a job for as little as two weeks.

    I support giving unemployment benefits to people who lost their jobs. In Illinois, you have a right to six months of benefits. In tough economic times, the federal government should offer three additional months. To get these extended benefits, both Presidents Clinton and Bush required that a person actually had their job for five months before qualifying for extended benefits.

    It makes sense: to get extended unemployment benefits, you must have at least worked for a few of months.

    But under the House bill, beneficiaries would be paid by taxpayers for more than nine months even if they only worked two weeks. This would be the first time in over 25 years that taxpayers would pay for people who did not work at least five months before unemployment — in effect, turning our common sense unemployment system into something that could be abused.

    In fact, the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office warned that “the availability of benefits may discourage recipients from searching for work…”

    I voted for a plan that would extend unemployment benefits for an additional 13 weeks — while keeping the requirement that to qualify, you had a job for five months. My plan costs taxpayers $7 billion. The House rejected this lower-cost option and voted to give full benefits after only two weeks of work. Such a bill costs taxpayers twice as much.

    We know the best way to help a family is to find work. The greatest threat to our economy is the high price of gas. That is why I think Congress should bring a bipartisan, long-term energy bill to the floor to get us off foreign oil.

    We should help Americans in need. While I support extending unemployment benefits, extended benefits should be offered to people who held a job at least a few of months.

    Thank you for your continued support. It is an honor to represent you in the Congress.

  49. You Guys / Gals all sound GREAT!
    On Hannity to-night he had Oliver North read the Declaration of Independence. The part that struck me was about how ,”if the political system starts to seem
    to no-longer be representing the people it serves. The
    people should speak-out”. Or somethiing like that !
    “We all” in different ways that something “BIG” is going down!
    “RD” or anyone else “what really went wrong in NC”?
    I got bits & pieces only.

  50. Well you can’t vote absentee in Ohio at this point so it must be some form of voter registration. We can look up Hillary contributors on the internet and sent them information. Also, would be great if someone could get a hold of Hillary’s email/donor list.

  51. I checked the PUMA Facebook group when it first formed and noticed that the leaders of the main one included Will, if I recall correctly, TD Nguyen (who was on Cavuto when this first started getting publicity) has always been on the list. I don’t know any of these folks nor have friends in common so far, I’m keeping my ears open to find out what’s up..

    Main PUMA group –
    http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=20011051465

    Another –
    http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=25214715411

  52. Hey, everyone. I’ve been trying to figure out how to ensure there will be a roll call in Denver, such as getting the right person to put in writing that it will occur. Any ideas on who to contact, etc.? I am trying to collect info on friendly superdelegates and public figures that would put the pressure on to make sure roll call happens. If someone has a better approach, please share.

    The Confluence is wonderful! Thank you for this site.

    Mostly I am on http://www.blog.pumapac.org as Dragonfly. Some very creative people worked with murphy on bumper stickers etc that may be of interest, Melanie.

  53. They try to say this movement is a Republican trick because they can’t accept they blew a sure win when they drank the Cult Aid. For months I have been posting on C&L and HuffPo and politico that the Republicans were backing Obama to stick us with an unelectable candidate.

    http://www.thecityedition.com/Pages/Archive/Winter08/2008Election.html

    Now they start leaking the proof about it, since they are pretty sure the Obamatons will keep ignoring the little facts as they have been all along. Yet even knowing this is most likely a Republican idea that the DNC was STUPID enough to fall for…I find myself still willing to vote for McCain in November if Hillary can’t get back in the game by then. I don’t like McCain, but I don’t trust Obama. I’ve done the research and I am convinced to the core of my being he is a criminal who will ruin this country worse than Bush could dream of. So if it’s between Obama and McCain with no numerically viable 3rd party candidate, I will vote for McCain just because I know 1 vote for him means 2 more names Obama has to grab from a graveyard somewhere. I really hate having to choose the lesser of 2 evils, but damn it if I am forced to I am going to make sure the distaste I put myself through in doing it is going to count!

    Those you see following the Obamessiah are not Democrats, though the species may try to look similar. They are in fact nothing but JACKASSES!
    P.U.M.A.

  54. “We do need PUMA bumper stickers, no?”

    pumapac.org should have bumperstickers within days. They also have t-shirts and other gear.

  55. So, does this mean we are OK with McCain blogs? (and his policy?)

    Or is this just PUMA thing? (I am still confuse what PUMA does)

  56. Cindy T.: My advice is follow your conscience in the voting booth but of you want to flex your electoral muscle, do not commit to any voting strategy prior to the convention.

  57. PUMA stands for either Party Unity My Ass or People United Mean Action. It started several weeks ago when SM suggested the acronym right here at The Confluence. But it is so catchy that others signed on. Here’s more of my take on PUMA power but it is by no means exclusive.

  58. “riverdaughter, on June 15th, 2008 at 11:36 pm Said: My advice is follow your conscience in the voting booth but of you want to flex your electoral muscle, do not commit to any voting strategy prior to the convention.”

    I am confuse. Flexing electoral muscle means employing strategy early on right? Should I remain neutral against McCain while waiting for Hillary to win the convention?

    In the event of Hillary doesn’t win the convention, doesn’t “no Obama” means McCain?

  59. I am pretty proud of everyone here, who logs on, gives a damn and said no, we won’t bow down, we won’t give in, it shows that we care about our country and the people who preside over it. Well done!

  60. Cindy: Your vote is very valuable. You should never surrender it to anyone just because they tell you it is in the interest of some x,y,or z. You should make the candidate earn it. That is why it is important right now to not commit to any candidate as long as the party they represent is behaving badly.
    If they straighten themselves out before the convention, if there is a fair convention, you can reassess.
    There are several possible strategies going into November if the candidate of your choice is not nominated. You could choose Obama. You could choose McCain and vote for down ticket Dems. You could withhold your vote for president and vote for downticket Dems. You could vote for a third party. You could write in Hillary’s name (check your state laws about this option).
    You strategy will depend on what your goal is. If you feel you need to vote for a Democrat because voting for a Republican is dangerous, by all means, vote for Obama. if you feel that the Democratic party cannot survive four years of Obama (this is how I am headed), withhold your vote or vote for McCain.
    It doesn’t take much to swing the election. In 1980, 10% of the popular vote was the difference between Carter and Reagan. Yet Reagan walked off with 90% of the electoral college vote. I think it is going to be a very close election. Use your vote strategically before the convention and force the DNC to be fair and honest about who wins. If they do not comply, then your choice will be whether you wish to keep the DNC in its current incarnation or demolish it and rebuild in in the intervening 4 years of a McCain presidency with divided government.
    It is up to you. You have a lot of power. Make them earn your vote.

  61. Melanie, on June 15th, 2008 at 10:13 pm Said:
    They think PUMA is a GOP scam over at MyDD. They obsess about it.

    ————-

    Hee. Good.

  62. One of the PUMAs at pumapac suggested using the DNC’s own energy against them by writing to newspapers from the Dems website.

    The site provides lists / links to newspapers across the country, and they were also generous enough to provide “Talking Points”, the first two of which I’ve listed below because I am again struck by the magnitude of their audacity / hypocrisy (I must be in denial):
    1- The Democratic Party will end the Republican culture of corruption and restore a government as good as the people it serves.

    (This should have been: end teh Republicans culture of corruption and begin their own. The point also tells me how much they think of the people the government serves).

    2-The Democratic Party will protect Americans at home and lead the world by telling the truth to our troops, our citizens, and our allies.
    (Yeah, rrrrright)

    http://www.democrats.org/page/content/partybuilderLTE/

  63. “I am more hopeful about this new movement precisely because it *is* a reaction against something- the violation our Democratic principles. I believe everyone of the people in that call is genuinely repulsed not so much by Obama but by the way the democratic process was subverted.”

    I think this is the key. Recent interviews have tried to cast us as “spiteful,” “angry emotional women,” “sour grapes,” “Hillary fanatics” etc. I think the emphasis on the fundamental principle of our democracy (fair reflection/representation) and it’s violation by the DNC is critical. If this talking point can be reiterated, we cannot be dismissed as a radical fringe of “deadenders.” The Founding Fathers “broke the rules” for this very essence. It is beyond Hillary and Obama–it is fundamentally American. That theme will resonate with anyone who feels love of country and justice.

  64. riverdaughter, on June 15th, 2008 at 10:33 pm Said:
    That is what we want the Democratic party to be. Not some Chicago machine dancing around the broken body of Ozymandius.

    ————-

    Beautiful, beautiful. Well put. I’m on board. I haven’t decided my exact plan for November and I’m on board for a grassroots, diverse movement with multiple strategies. I’m a PUMA independent who loooves a good cocktail party…

  65. What’s a PUMA?

  66. Can’t vote for McCain. Won’t vote for Obama. It will be interesting exploring my Ohioan options in November.

  67. One issue I have. How did a grassroots organization such as JustSayNoDeal get instant media? Instantly on Faux, etc? I’ve never heard of Bowers before in my life…and I spend a lot of time on blogs.

    I know that Axelrove is an astroturfer by trade….JustSayNoDeal has the faint whiff of an astroturfing organization.

  68. puma = party unity my ass -or- people united means action (two different organizations)

  69. It’s really amazing what you all have done to put this coalition together in such a short time. Thank you for the summary so far.

  70. Teresa: It doesn’t take much to get the media’s attention. FOX is fervently anti Democrat. But as for Just Say No Deal, the founders are marketing and PR types. This is their stock in trade. They know how to bait the media. The GOOD thing is they are appearing on outlets other than FOX. Bowers is going up against MSNBC. Now, some conference callers were opposed to this for obvious reasons. But the thing that gave me confidence in Diane and Will is that they were not afraid to go there. For one thing, Hillary did it and it is always a good thing to confront your enemies, even on their own turf. And secondly, all free media is good media. Never pass up an opportunity to make your case.
    I think that is what convinced me that they were the real deal. They are doing what *I* would do,

  71. “podVet
    Thanks for the “link” to “ityedition article.
    It took a while; but it was even better than the 1st
    article!!
    Sleep well all !

  72. Hey folks — get thee over to Achlanghel’s latest post about “Logistics”. Find it at http://anglachelg.blogspot.com/

    She points how the sudden move to Chicago could not have been sudden. In other words, it had to be in the works for months. This helps prove that the DNC planned Hillary’s defeat from the get go.

    Though as we know, Hillary still managed to actually “win.”

    (Apologies if someone already cross-posted this in a earlier thread.)

    The slender thread of hope I held out for Denver is gone. But so is any remaining loyalty I held toward the Democratic party. We need to maneuver our way through this election with a united front. However, after November the hard work of forming a new party starts.

  73. Imustprotest: I must protest. I did not put a coalition together. *WE* put it together. It coalesced on its own with an idea here and there.
    We are working together. I am not the leader. I am a participant, as are you.

  74. Hey, guys. Will Bower here. I wanted to introduce myself and explain my history with PUMA, and its history with me.

    Two big things happened to me this year. I became a writer for the Huffington Post *and* I became an administrator for the largest pro-Hillary group on FaceBook (called “Hillary Clinton for President – One Million Strong”), which then had a membership of 27,000 people.

    A third big thing happened to me. I met Harriet Christian at the DNC’s RBC hearing. You can read my account of it here:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/will-bower/my-evening-with-harriet-c_b_104594.html

    (For those of you know Harriet and have questions about me, I invite you to ask her whatever you’d like about me.)

    I also met someone else that night — “Sista Christian Louboutin” of HireHeels.com. It was Sista who later mentioned me to Diane Mantouvalos and vice versa. HireHeels.com, of course, was the nucleus around which “Just Say NO DEAL” would later be born.

    Whilst helping to oversee the afore mentioned FaceBook group, I befriended DJ Kelsey. It has been *my* understanding that DJ Kelsey created the acronym PUMA for “Party Unity My Ass”. I fully believe him when he tells me that he created that particular acronym, as I wasn’t seeing mention of it anywhere else at the time.

    *That said*… I will be the *first* to admit that it’s possible that this happened as a synchronicity. I don’t know who “SM” is, but I fully acknowledge that two great minds could have come up with the same acronym at the same time. Instead of taking credit for it, I choose to look at it as a movement that was *meant* to be.

    Continuing: After another member of the FaceBook group (Thuc Nguyen) created some images for us, I took the PUMA / Party Unity My Ass concept to my FaceBook group with the idea of having it be a mascot and a call to arms…. and it caught fire there *immediately*. Within a few days, “The National” contacted us for an interview, which you can read about here:

    http://thenational.ae/article/20080607/FOREIGN/763911149

    Meanwhile, Diane was preparing the conference call that would give birth to “Just Say No Deal”. Being that she knew of me through “Sista” and through The Huffington Post and through the PUMA article in The National, I was invited to participate.

    Within only a few days after *that*, the ride REALLY took off!:

    http://tinyurl.com/6e2wak

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2008/06/12/2008-06-12_hillary_clinton_fanatics_keep_fight_aliv-1.html

    http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/06/13/1138240.aspx#comments

    http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/06/13/a-clinton-backer-turns-to-mccain/

    http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/256106

    http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0608/McCain_mingles_with_Clinton_supporters.html

    And now here we are.

    That is the history as I see it from where I now sit.

    I invite you to hold me accountable, and I invite you to dialogue with me to your hearts content… that I might be as good of a representative for you as I can possibly be. If you would have told me one month ago that *any* of us would be where we now are, I wouldn’t have believed it.

    I hope this helps shed light on my involvement with PUMA. I look forward to working with all of you, and in the very near future!

    Thank you,

    Will Bower
    Your Fellow PUMA

  75. Riverdaughter,

    This whole PUMA/Just Say No Deal movement is making me feel so proud and re-empowered and re-inspired.

    I just watched the the Neil Cavuto interviews with three PUMA members and they were eloquent and persuasive spokespeople. I am so happy to be able to identify myself as a PUMA supporter and to see ongoing representation in the media for the millions of others who feel as we do.

    *That being said, I have TWO NAGGING CONCERNS as to how PUMA might come to be mis-characterized by the the MSM; or what I prefer to call SARP – the Stenographic Arm of the Republican Party.

    1) Will Bower is adamant in his intention to vote for McCain if Obama is the Dem Presidential nominee. However, if it came down to a choice between McCain and Obama, I would vote for NEITHER. I hope the MSM doesn’t focus on Mr. Bower as the ‘official’ spokesman and promulgate the untruth that his choice reflects the intent of ALL PUMA voters.

    ~ Obviously, if the MSM makes it look like PUMAs already intend to vote for McCain en masse, that news has great propaganda value for the GOP. Plus, it gives the impression that they no longer need to keep WORKING HARD for our votes; and it takes the focus off the fact that we are, first and foremost, still ALL HOLDING OUT for HILLARY to be the NOMINEE.

    2) In the interviews, Cavuto kept repeating the old derisive meme carried over from the 2000 election, about SOUR GRAPES and SORE LOSERS. Imo, there needs to be some co-ordinated response to neutralize that bullshit. A sincere rebuttal won’t do the trick because it allows the A-holes to dictate the terms of discourse.

    ~ Better that it be some witty quip that just nips it right in the bud and makes the interviewer feel foolish for pulling the same old stunt. Maybe something like: “Well in deference to Senator Obama we prefer to call ourselves BITTER and CLINGY (har, har). Although, I can foresee some blow-back on that one. Maybe: “Yeah we heard that back in 2000 (and 2004), but WE’RE NOT QUITTERS AND WE JUST CAN’T QUIT HILLARY” (big cheery smile).

    Hope I’m not stating the obvious, or being off-base, or sticking my nose in where its not needed. Just my 2cents, for what it’s worth.

    Any thoughts on this issue, anybody?

  76. So far my experience of PUMA has been excellent — remember to send the outline of your hand to Dean tomorrow telling him something like hell, no.

    Personally, I will remain with Hillary until August and help to retire the debt, but I will also work for McCain and perhaps contribute a little. BO is so dangerous I do not want to take the chance of a third party or non-voters siphoning off the votes McCain needs to win. A vote for McCain takes one away from BO and gives one to McCain, a two-fer — and security that our nation could never fall into the hands of a narcissistic nincompoop. I also think a realignment of centrist Americans is a good idea; I am jaded about “progressives” at present.

    I do like the idea of a group of Hillary supporters sitting back and asking McCain what are you going to do for me — and for Hillary’s proposals?

    Great work, everyone.

  77. I feel Bambie and the DNC have gone a “bridge too far”. This bubbling brew of egg head loser, hack, K street geezer Dems, untied only by money love and Clinton hate , will fall and hard. They are Dems remember, and therefor stunningly incompetent . Hillary will come out of this stronger than she would have been if they did not try to steal the farm . They are too stupid and greedy to last. If not this year, then in 2012, Hill will be here and they will not.

  78. GO TO THIS SITE,,,WRITE THEM AND TELL THEM TO CUPPORT MIKE PENCE BILL FOR BROADCAST FREEDOM ACT…THIS IS A BILL THAT WILL PROHIBIT THE PRESIDENT FROM CONTROLLING THE AIRWAVES AND INTERNET.. ALSO TELL THESE CONGRESSMEN WHO DIDN’T SUPPORT HILLARY YOU ARE GOING TO NOT VOTE FOR THEM AND VOTE STRIAGHT REPUBLICAN IF THEY ENDORSE OBAMA…THESE ARE THE SENATORS WHO BACKSTABBED HILLARY. THEY DON’T DESERVE TO BE IN OFFICE WHEN THEY THROW HER ASIDE AND PICK A NOBODY

    http://hillbuzz.blogspot.com/2008/06/obama-supporters-in-senate-up-for-re.html

  79. Teresa—I don’t think ‘JustSayNo Deal’ is an astroturfed organization. By definition, astroturfing is manufactured support (like I think Obamas to begin with). We are all part of ‘JustSay NoDeal’, therefore, I think it is real because we are genuine in our goals.

    Just my take.

  80. Just wanted to say I finally found a your site which is listed on Clintondems and am happy youare getting news media.Our site has been mentioned on No Quarter along with PUMA but have found some other PUMA sites I was not satisfied with.Some mention of copyright rhetoric that I just felt is not our agenda.We do not want to look like the bitches who fght that the Sexist idiots talk about.I just wanted to say I have bookmarked this site.I have been working on Clinton Dems blogging and making suggestions as to action.My thoughts are without Hillary on the top of the ticket Then I cannot vote for Obama.My personal opinion is to vote Mccain though I see you do not agree with that.My theory is I am a Reagan Democrat 53 years old.I voted for Reagan on the issues.But am Democrat in heart.I am not Liberal but more to the middle.If we Vote Mccain should Hillary not get the Presidnetial nod at the Convention then we are looking at Mccains age and possibly only 4 years which would make Hillary still young enough to win in 2012.I think with their age and Bills health that 2016 would be to late for them then.I’m looking to be put to work to get Hillary Electied possibly at the Convention 2008.I feel as w should all know that Obama is the Presumptive Nominee that is being pushed down our throats.Hillary had the popular vote and can beat MCCAIN. We shoud not give hope all together that Hillary will not ask for Roll Call or challenge the delegates.I do not pretend to undertand all the politics of the Convention but Kennedy challenged the Convention.Jesse Jackson also challenged the delegates during his run. This is not unknown territory here.But what we need to understand is Dean Pelosi Brazille and Reid are in control of things here and are trying to take Hillary off the ballot if this is true what I have read.There is a selected nominee by delegates who can change their minds tand switch.We need to not give up Hope on Hillary Remember till the Lady in the Pantsuit sings.I will be checking back from Clinton Dems and watch your action plans.Am looking for ways to take action and get our goals for Hillary met.
    Thanks for your site.Great Site.Enjoyed the news with Cavuto

  81. Wow!

    Wow!

    Wow!

    Wow!!!

    Vive Le Resistance!!

    Riverdaughter, YOU ARE AWESOME & everybody involved – this is sooo inspiring and I am honored and thankful for your blog & the 80+ bloggers that have formed Just Say No Deal.

    Thank you for the shoutout, I mean that from the bottom of my heart. Thank you for your gifted “hypergraphia” that grabs our thoughts and feelings and splashes them on a webpage.

    Yes, P.U.M.A. (whichever acronym you feel like using) is a reaction to the injustice of vote theft.

    P.U.M.A. is “we saw what you did and don’t think you’ll get away with it – and don’t expect me to support it.”

    How are we expected to unite under a morally reprehensible party who took morally reprehensible actions to nominate their inexperienced candidate choice?

    We all witnessed the violation of Democracy on May 31st, 2008 and we won’t stand for it.

    P.U.M.A. doesn’t belong to anyone – we are one big, raging ferocious monster of dissent.

    No deal, DNC! No deal, Precious! And until you don’t put “DEMOCRACY” back itno the Democratic Party, we ain’t coming back.

    Rock on!

  82. do y’all think the DNC spent all its limited funds on this move?

  83. Hmmm. I wrote a very lengthy introduction about myself for you and your readers, but it doesn’t seem to have taken. 😦

    I’ll try again.

    If it doesn’t post, please let me know how I can contact you directly.

    Thanks,

    Will Bower

  84. (I’ve removed the links that were in my first attempt, in hopes that this will take this time. However, I’d love to resubmit it later — with all the links in tact — if you’ll permit that.)

    Hey, guys. Will Bower here. I wanted to introduce myself and explain my history with PUMA, and its history with me.

    Two big things happened to me this year. I became a writer for the Huffington Post *and* I became an administrator for the largest pro-Hillary group on FaceBook (called “Hillary Clinton for President – One Million Strong”), which then had a membership of 27,000 people.

    A third big thing happened to me. I met (and wrote about) Harriet Christian at the DNC’s RBC hearing. You can read my account of it here.

    (For those of you know Harriet and have questions about me, I invite you to ask her whatever you’d like about me.)

    I also met someone else that night — “Sista Christian Louboutin” of HireHeels.com. It was Sista who later mentioned me to Diane Mantouvalos and vice versa. HireHeels.com, of course, was the nucleus around which “Just Say NO DEAL” would later be born.

    Whilst helping to oversee the afore mentioned FaceBook group, I befriended DJ Kelsey. It has been *my* understanding that DJ Kelsey created the acronym PUMA for “Party Unity My Ass”. I fully believe him when he tells me that he created that particular acronym, as I wasn’t seeing mention of it anywhere else at the time.

    *That said*… I will be the *first* to admit that it’s possible that this happened as a synchronicity. I don’t know who “SM” is, but I fully acknowledge that two great minds could have come up with the same acronym at the same time. Instead of taking credit for it, I choose to look at it as a movement that was *meant* to be.

    Continuing: After another member of the FaceBook group (Thuc Nguyen) created some images for us, I took the PUMA / Party Unity My Ass concept to my FaceBook group with the idea of having it be a mascot and a call to arms…. and it caught fire there *immediately*. Within a few days, “The National” contacted us for an interview.

    Meanwhile, Diane was preparing the conference call that would give birth to “Just Say No Deal”. Being that she knew of me through “Sista” and through The Huffington Post and through the PUMA article in The National, I was invited to participate.

    Within only a few days after *that*, the ride REALLY took off!:

    And now here we are.

    That is the history as I see it from where I now sit.

    I invite you to hold me accountable, and I invite you to dialogue with me to your hearts content… that I might be as good of a representative for you as I can possibly be. If you would have told me one month ago that *any* of us would be where we now are, I wouldn’t have believed it.

    I hope this helps shed light on my involvement with PUMA. I look forward to working with all of you, and in the very near future!

    Thank you,

    Will Bower
    Your Fellow PUMA

  85. will, I released your earlier comment from the spam filter. it likes to eat longer posts, especially if there are unformatted links. It is up above where it would have been had it not gotten stuck……sorry bout the delaly

  86. Mr. Bower, if things don’t post it’s often because certain trigger words send them to the spam filter. If it doesn’t post, you can try to remove certain words and see if that works.

  87. Ben,

    I am totally on board with your answer as to the question “who are you voting for”. PUMA reps are gonna be asked that a lot by pot-stirrers in the MSM.

    ~ If people routinely gave the GENERALIZED ANSWER you suggest, it would preempt any prospective MSM attempts to create a meme about internal conflicts, or ‘divisiveness’ among PUMAs.

    ~ If I may quote you: “OUR VOTES ARE OUR OWN. We don’t owe them to anyone and we don’t need to state our preference to anyone. Voting is private. But we can say that we are NOT voting for Obama.”

    ~ This elegant answer avoids the prospect of interviewees getting ensnared in gotcha questions about who they’re supporting. Also, it reminds everyone that the process is in flux and on-going, toward the end goal of Hillary as the Dem nominee.

    *************************************************************************

  88. Hi, this is Murphy from Puma PAC — I was also on the call today. Since then have heard of several rumors floating around about our group. Let me fill you in a bit on who we are and who I am:

    My name is Darragh Murphy. I am married, white, and
    female. I have three children. I was born and raised in the Dorchester
    neighborhood of Boston, where I lived until I was 31 years old. Since then
    I’ve lived in the suburbs, 29 miles northwest of the city with my family.

    I’ve been a Democrat all my life, volunteered and contributed to Hillary’s
    campaign as a private citizen. Puma PAC is my first real foray into
    grassroots political activism.

    following is the text of the email I sent to address the rumors. Please
    use this personal information about me with discretion. I really am a
    private citizen. I really have received threats and harassing emails and
    phone calls. Vendors have refused to work with me because of the nature of
    our group:

    “Thanks for the email, no I hadnt seen it.

    The rumors flare up once every few days.

    YES we are an unconnected PAC, registered with the FEC, and a 527
    organization, with Form 8871 filed with the IRS. We have legal counsel and
    are advised on the rules and regulations we must follow.

    I do not take accusations that I am breaking federal laws lightly.

    Obviously our organization is not for everyone. I strenuously disagree
    with any accusations of our group being wimpy in any way. Anyone who says
    that hasnt spent much time on our blog.

    There is no joining fee, membership requirement. or any other sort of
    nonsense to trick or lure people. All Democrats and Independents who want
    to work against the DNC leadership and protest the selection of our
    nominee are welcome. We will succeed or fail in our goals based directly
    on our ability to stay organized, focused, and action-oriented. People who
    are not interested in that approach need not join us.

    Here is a link to the Federal Election Commission’s web page where we are
    listed as a duly formed, unconnected PAC.

    http://herndon1.sdrdc.com/cgi-bin/cancomsrs/?_08+C00451369

    The only reason I dont post this link more widely is because it contains
    personal information about me. That information is part of the public
    record, so obviously I have no intention of trying to keep it secret,
    however I also dont want to make it easier for trolls and creeps to harass
    me at home.

    If you would help fight the rumors about this I
    would be very grateful — they are extremely distracting and disturbing.

    Please send any credible person with questions about our group to email me
    at murphy@pumapac.org

    Those who spread rumors WANT to raise doubts in your mind. I hope I have
    put yours to rest.

    If you have any other questions or concerns, please let me know
    immediately. I intend to respond instantly and forcefully to attacks on
    the legitimacy of our group.

  89. Will Bower, thank you for taking the time to talk to us and THANK YOU for taking our dissent further. 18 million people thank you!

    Riverdauighter is correct, DJ Kelsey did not create the acronym PUMA, he borrowed it from here. I know that to be true because I saw on some blog (can’t remember) that he created it on June 5th.

    Meanwhile, on June 1st, it was created here. Yes, it was me who blurted it out – you can find the comment on the “Looking Fine” thread from June 1st – and a few minutes later and the subsequent thread was the PUMA manifesto by the wonderful Riverdaughter “The PUMA un-Party is born,” also on June 1st. That was the day Hillary won Puerto Rico and we were celebrating it while we were mad as hell from the RBC ruling.

    Moments after Riverdaughter’s manifesto, Murphy created PUMAPac. From there it spread like wildfire.

    That’s the “birth” story on P.U.M.A.. What anybody wants to do with it is up to them, but I hope that the overall consensus of all groups involved is what we were denouncing when PUMA was born right here in this blog. We reject the RBC’s ruling, we reject the absence of “democracy,” during the primaries, we reject the abhorrent sexism displayed by our party leaders and the MSM, we reject the “Dean Democrat” philosophy of destroying the “Big Tent” of Democracts and making it into this swanky VIP lounge where if your name is not on the Obama guest list, you have to stand outside without complaining.

    I could go on, but know that I am very honored & appreciative to be a part of this raging group of dissent. Wve been pushed around way too long.

    Thank you!

    SM
    Ferociosu PUMA and Conflucian

  90. rd, i just posted a long comment explaining Puma PAC and addressing some of the rumors that are circulating about me. It may be stuck in moderation.

    thanks.

  91. Murphy!!!! How are you?? Good to see that PUMAPAc is sooo big!

    Rumors: I was on another blog called PUMAParty sometime last week defending you. I haven’t been back there but I told them that you are 100% legit.

  92. SM! The Puma Godmother!

    Things are WILD and exciting.

    I guess the crazy rumors mean people are interested in discrediting us. hmmm, wonder why??

  93. give it a rest bonnie. making wild statements like our movement (which stresses the importance of legitimate and transparent elections) is “against the US” are inflammatory and not welcome. please leave..bye now

  94. For the record, we are completely in support of Will Bowers’ group, tho our acronym meanings differ. There is no official connection between us, but both of our groups are part of the JustSayNoDeal coalition. We hope to share and work together where appropriate.

    Good luck tomorrow Will — give em hell!

    get some beauty rest!

  95. Will: Thank you very much for taking PUMA and running with it to the media. You are a brave man sir and our hats are off to you.
    Bravo.

  96. Murphy! PUMA Godmother! You are too much & thanks – but if I’m the godmother, Riverdaughter’s the priest and you’re the deacon! (can you tell I’m lasped Catholic?)

    They were saying that “how was it that you did a 527 so soon,” “it must be an Obama or a GOP front,” etc. I went there and blasted them on the PUMA birth and how, from one comment I made, to Riverdaughter’s manifesto, to your PUMAPac was created all in the span of 1 day.

    I also told them that you are a respected blogger from the Mighty Corrente Building and other Democratic blog sites, that you’re very well known in the progressive blogosphere, etc.. They shut up after that and I haven’t been back there to check.

    Oh well. Keep PUMA raging & roaring!

  97. Oh Lord. I was over at a Hillary supporter’s journal, and now the Oborg are claiming that McCain’s hateful people are hitting their blogs, and Obama’s at such a disadvantage because he’s trying to take the high road. *rolls eyes*

    Is there an academy award for “Greatest Degree of Projection While Astroturfing”?

  98. Seriously, Obama wouldn’t know a “high road” even if it hit him on the head.

    Obama = KOPA

    K ing
    O f
    P assive
    A gressives

  99. If the primaries were fixed before the season even began, where was our input, free will, enfranchisement? If it was all an exercise in futility it is something that must NEVER happen again.

    This is exactly what I can’t get past. This is theft, pure and simple. And not just theft of Sen. Clinton’s chances of winning the nomination, but of so much more. It is theft of the thousands (probably millions) of hours spent by all her volunteers and staff – time we’ll never get back. Theft of the millions and millions of dollars that we contributed to Sen. Clinton. And theft of Sen. Clinton’s personal assets, since she contributed to her own campaign to fight until the end, and is now in the hole. Sen. Clinton is now in a bad financial situation regarding the debt of her campaign because of these thieves.

    I never thought I’d see the day that one democrat would use racist smears against another to get elected. I also never thought I’d see the day that one democrat and the party leaders would blatantly steal like they have this cycle. I just can’t get past this. I would rather see the party die altogether than get away with this. It can’t continue as a viable party if this is let stand.

    Quite frankly, this is the message that really needs to get out into the mainstream. This is what the MSM is not talking about – the blatant theft that Obama and the DNC have accomplished, the fact that this was fixed from the start. This is one message that I would really like to see PUMA disseminate far and wide. That message is MUCH different than the one they accuse us of – that we are sore losers or dead enders, or simply that we don’t like Obama (though this is also true). This message is the one that validates PUMA because it resonates with people’s sense of justice and fair play.

  100. Seriously, you are funny.

    SM, I like that , KOPA, I think I’ll start a blog. . .

  101. Forming
    Storming
    Norming
    Performing

    You learn about these phases of Team Development out there in the real world. My view is that PUMA is still in the Storming phase – there’s a lot of activitivy in a lot of different directions and it hasn’t quite settled down just yet. But that’s OK. That’s normal, an expected phase of the development process. If people can be a little patient, i think they;ll see things will shake down into a rhythm.

    As for this Will Bower guy, even though I don’t know where he came from, I think we should be grateful that someone has really seized the reins and gotten some media attention. From what I’ve seen of him, he seems to be pretty telegenic and articulate, and so presents a positive outward face for PUMA.

  102. DaveO, totally agreed.

  103. If this has been the high road, I’m pretty damn terrified to see what obama taking the low road might look like.

  104. Murphy, LOL!!!!

    I’m actually wanting to do a KOPA-cabana parody:

    His name was Barry
    Born in Hawai’i
    He had finesse and savoir faire
    Girls were just faintin’ everywhere

    And then he met one
    That ran against him
    So he began to cry and whine
    Pointing fingers all the time

    And then his fans joined in
    Cruel words were turned to “spin”
    Which can only mean he’s
    King Of Passive Agressives

    At the KOPA, KOPA-cabana….

    Aw hell, it’s corny, but it’s late – so I’m excused, right?

  105. Everyone, I am off to sleep.

    Thank you Riverdaughter, Will Bower, Murphy, Mawm, Kbird and everyone who is making PUMA roar louder.

    Vive Le Resistance!

  106. First of all let me introduce myself.
    I have lurked on numerous pro-Hillary sites, posted on some (this one included) and tried to stay as informed as possible.
    There are many like me, who are not “actvists” for lack of a better word, but who are wholly supportive and desperately committed, if that makes sense.
    Many people have concerns, some have no internet access or literacy, some are just not comfortable participating.
    If I may offer a small criticism based on what I’ve seen on many sites, they sometimes have a tendency to become “clubby” with established relationships that serve to prevent people from “wetting their feet.”
    This doesn’t seem to be intentional, and might even be unavoidable, but there it is.
    Lastly, whether one plans to vote for McCain, not vote, write Hillary Clinton in, or excercise some other option, the one thing that ties us together is our refusal to vote for Obama.
    On this point I not only agree with Riverdaughter, I suggest that it become the priority and main talking point of all affiliated groups.
    If that is the only message that is ever communicated, then all the efforts will have to be considered to have been successful, IMHO.
    Thank you for letting me vent.

  107. Anybody,

    Is Diane Mantouvalos the woman who was interviewed by Neil Cavuto about PUMA?What’s the back-story on her?

    She had great presence: telegenic, good-humored, articulate, and well..cool. As were Will and Thuc Nguyen in their interviews. What a fine-looking, well-spoken group of spokespeople! Hope there’s more to come. Kudos to all.

    And all hail the generative power of The Confluence!

    Congrats to all

  108. RD, can you rescue my post from moderation? Not sure why it got there. I’ve checked it several times and there’s no words the spam filter should have blocked.

  109. thanks riverdaughter, will, murphy and all the others. there were some pretty dark days toward the end of the primaries, when it definitely felt like we were under a major assault: just as hilary was winning primaries by ever-increasing record margins, the media had upped the volume and lowered the tone of its assault.

    as an american living overseas, one of the few resources that were available to help me make sense of the situation was the confluence. this blog and a few others (anglachel’s blog, no quarter, corrente, talk left) were absolutely essential.

    PUMA was the rallying cry that changed everything and made us all aware of our strength – no matter what the media said. our votes are our own. and now we are on the move.

    thanks again riverdaughter.

  110. Ohh, a late night O-bat (deliberate mispelling of Obot) fly-by, dropping it’s putrid little present on our party…

    Sarah McDonald, I have never voted Republican in my life. And I am now a PUMA. When both parties stink because of corruption like the RBC it’s time to get out and foment rebellion.

    I will not dignify your slurs against Hillary with an answer except to say, there was only one lying politician in the Democratic primaries, and his name is Obama.

  111. Hello everyone.

    I wanted to let you all know about some big things going on with the Hillary / PUMA Party movement.

    PUMAParty.Com recently launched a combination of tools to help everyone spread the word and support causes related to Hillary, PUMA and anything else relevant

    There are now over 425 members on the forums and many more are registering daily to show their support. There are sections to organize, network and take action. Time is limited so any suggestions or info you could share would be awesome.

    Also, at the same website you can now get your very own PUMA Party Blog in a few seconds. Use it to post your thoughts, ideas, suggestions, press releases or anything else you feel is important. Each blog is linked from the homepage that receives thousands of hits per day.

    I have also been notified by the admins there that they are willing to do anything they can to help the various causes related to PUMA etc. including spreading press releases to supporters, starting forum sections so that supporters of individual causes can network with the overall user base, fundraising efforts or anything else they can help with.

    I hope you’ll all stop by and say hello and help us move forward.

    Thanks for a wonderful site, I will ask them to add it to the link section if it’s not there already. Please link back if possible.

    http://www.pumaparty.com

    Talk to you all soon,

    Amy

  112. Amen, RD. Thanks to all!

  113. Just a real quick one before I head to work- I see you were busy while fuzzy slept Hope to get some info on how to write letter to ed ect and forming an informal or formal group here in Gville Florida. Maybe we could get a resources tab or online kit up….

    Fuzzybeargville

  114. I was glad to see this post. I am on Facebook frequently and I have joined various groups there, including Will Bower’s group. I also belong to the US Presidential Sit Out at Facebook. This represents my position more than the others, but it has hardly any members. It cites this site as what it takes PUMA to mean–withholding the vote from either McCain or Obama. But I agree that this is a matter of conscience, about whether to vote FOR McCain or not. Personally, I can’t. He does not stand for what I believe in.

    I also do not call myself a progressive. I have hung on to liberal. Maybe others here won’t feel the way I do, but I think using “progressive’ is when the party began to really slip away, when the word liberal got demonized in the Dukakis campaign and he didn’t reclaim it right then and there. Liberal is what FDR was. Bill Clinton was what I would call moderate, and maybe he had to be; he faced a hostile Congress. But Hillary, it seems to me, is Liberal.

    I want bumperstickers too. I want buttons.

    I also want to add that I went on the Democratic Party blog site yesterday. I had taken a hiatus. I word searched for PUMA and came up with a few hits. Boy does this make them crazy. There are a few pro-PUMA women, but the others are going nuts. And yes, they all think McCain has taken over the brains of “angry older women.”

  115. Hey, josgirl. Welcome. Don’t be a stranger.

  116. About the rebuttal to sore loser thing — I see it as going beyond Hillary Clinton, especially now we are coming to see the DNC being moved to Chicago and as Anglachel says that could not have been a recent decision. So our rebuttal should be on taking back our party and then list how Obama was crowned and how unworthy he is and that we stand for fairness and justice and would not condone what the party elites have done — how they undid the candidate who had the most vote not just at the end but all along.

  117. Oh, one more thing. If we can make this less about Hillary the better, I think. I don’t want the party elders going after her for this and hurting her. As RD has said before, our objections are about what the PARTY has done.

  118. Check out the LA Times again. The “older angry women” are falling into line, thank gawd. Really. There is no protest. They love Obama.
    http://www.latimes.com/news/la-na-women16-2008jun16,0,7568615.story?track=ntothtml

  119. chimera,

    from the LA Times article

    An NBC/Wall Street Journal poll found a wide gap last week: Women favored Obama over McCain, 52% to 33%. The survey also found that voters who cast ballots for Clinton in the Democratic primaries preferred Obama over McCain, 61% to 19%.

    Even if I believed anything NBC put out, wouldn’t %19 of Clinton Supporters voting for McCain be devasting for Obama. That is 3,420,000 voters.

    And I DON’T believe NBC to tell the truth about ANYTHING.

  120. and what happended to the other %20 in the poll? if %39 of voters who cast ballots for Clinton in the primaries are either undecided or supporting McCain at this point, Obama and the DNC are quaking in their boots.

    I love how this writer tries to put more lipstick on a pig.

    🙂

  121. If the Independents start to flee Obama (they’re more or less tied right now), we’ll start to see the effect in the polls. I’m sure thats what the Repub 527 attacks will be going after and they have a lot to work with.

  122. Hello Will, Thanks.

    Welcome Josgirl

  123. Excellent. I think I may have to join in.

    Of course some of the more strident supporters of Senator Obama will probably treat it as a harassment list.

    Luckily for me, since I live in Massachusetts and the GE is winner take all, I have third party options. Because frankly if I Democratic candidate for President can’t win MA in the GE there is no way they are wining period. We even hold Dem for President when almost all the rest of the states go red.

    Thus, I always have the option to vote, vote my principles and not have to ever vote Republican. And if the Green Party goes the way it might, I could vote for a Black Woman for President – which would be awesomely appropriate this year.

  124. Josgirl at 2:40am said: f I may offer a small criticism based on what I’ve seen on many sites, they sometimes have a tendency to become “clubby” with established relationships that serve to prevent people from “wetting their feet.”
    This doesn’t seem to be intentional, and might even be unavoidable, but there it is.
    Lastly, whether one plans to vote for McCain, not vote, write Hillary Clinton in, or excercise some other option, the one thing that ties us together is our refusal to vote for Obama.”

    We really strive at the Puma PAC blog to be extremely exclusive, especially to people newer to blogging. New members become part of the conversation every day, and I personally would feel awful if anyone felt excluded, and would do everything I can to welcome them back.

    I also agree with you 100% about keeping the focus OFF McCain. Many Pumas will vote for him in Nov, but only as a strategy — a protest. Those against us will have a perfect tool to discredit or ignore us if we suddnely become Republicans.

    We are a Protest and Resistance Movement *inside* the Democratic Party.

  125. There is no way I will ever support Obama. He surrounds himself with racists. He has treated Hillary very badly. Some polls are saying Obama will win the race. I’m stumped. I will do everything I can to sway people to vote McCain as I fear this man becoming our next leader and i fear the damage he will bring upon us all. I will not stay home or wrtie in Hiallry’s name. I think Hillary’s success run will be 2012. A vote for McCain is a vote for Hillary. Like many others I will donate to John McCain and send $5.44 on July 4th 2008. Please visit: http://www.hcsfjm.com. Like everyone says, PUMA!!!!!!!!!!!

  126. I am so happy about this “movement”, the chance to actually DO something. My comment to the DNC [which is always ignored!] is this: The arbitrary rules established by a flawed political party do NOT supercede the sacred right to vote and to have that vote count! However, while I understand the reason for this movement, I’m not sure I understand the plan…withhold our vote??? If you write in a Hillary vote, it may not count in many states, and many don’t even allow a write-in vote. If we abstain from voting, Obama may win. Isn’t the only SURE way to defeat Obama is by voting en masse for McCain??? My dream is that the SD’s come to their senses at the convention and vote for Hillary, but if that fails, we still have to DEFEAT Obama. What is our plan to do that??? And, in closing, I, unlike MO, am so incredibly proud of America and Americans! Just look at what you all are trying to accomplish here, democracy in the making! Group hug!!!

  127. I was thinking about voter revolt yesterday and how the spirit of our current actions or the desire to take action relate to the Declaration of Independence: “What Don’t They Get About ‘Voter Revolt’?” at http://ladyboomernyc.wordpress.com

    This is the only time in my entire life, and I’m 60, that I’ve thought about joining or helping form a third party. It never seemed viable before, because I always felt that the Democrats were the only Party who had a chance against a backward Repub agenda, and that we had to keep our numbers concentrated. Of course, I wish, hope, pray, intend that Hillary will be President, but as things have conspired, the system currently seems more corrupt than ever. I wonder if it’s possible to change the system from within if it’s already been taken over? Who among us is within it? Or is it time to make a new beginning from without. When I think about moveon.org again, they made Dems and Repubs listen by major online and phone call petition, and letter campaigns around issues and bills up for vote. An organized voice of a couple million voters directed toward the Democratic Party might get their attention.

  128. Your quote, “You can accomplish much if you don’t care who gets the credit”, is from “Give ’em hell” Harry Truman. How appropriate!

  129. Just saw Will on MSNBC. Despite Monica’s somewhat scolding tones, he hung right in there. Good job.

  130. I think that there are people in the party who want Hillary to be V.P. so she can cleanup after this guy and of course HE’LL get all the credit!! How typical!!! If you ask me, she should stay away from this guy and let him implode on his own!!!!

  131. Does anybody know if Just Say No Deal has an official logo, or linking policy? I don’t see anything on their web site (although there was a logo as late as yesterday). Or if not, does anyone know of a contact so that I can find out? Thanks….

  132. They don’t get it…they just DON’T GET IT! Even on the DNC blog, anytime I’ve posted comments not complimentary to BO, I’ve been accused of being a McCain secret agent in disguise. Such arrogance! What a bunch of lemmings-apparently the DNC has been counting on this for their own reasons. I was asking BamaSnatchers to tell their guy to pick HRC for the VP spot, but now I’m with KendallJ-let BO implode on himself, and she and the rest of us 18 MILLION can keep our dignity and integrity intact.

  133. Barack Obama is a Mascot Candidate who did not secure the nomination by democratic principals. Will hit the nail on the head and this is our main talking point.

    Thanks to all the leaders of this wild wild ride. It’s going to be a wild few months. Rock on!!

  134. I like to see that there is a center point like JustSayNoDeal that setup a loose coalition of various groups that share a common goal: NObama.

    We know that “PUMA” was a baby of Riverdaughter’s brain. It’s cashy, snappy, rebellious, and hence powerful.

    All Hillary supporters now proudly call themselves Puma. It’s a good thing.

  135. It’s only way to prevent him elected to the white house is to vote for McCain. We should not undermine his abilities. He has lot of low life tactic and strategists which his supporters help him to carry out. We all witness how he gains supports..

  136. I’ve looked at this website and believe that the Obama campaign or Karl Rove’s people are in control. They are not promoting any campaign to challenge the illegal DNC declaration of Obama as the nominee, which is the only strategy that will get Clinton back in the race. Their spokesman is welcome on MSNBC and Cavuto’s right-wing show on FOX, so what does that tell you. Voting for McCain is not a strategy, and neither is building a movement over time. It’s fine to join a conference call with this group, but don’t buy into any of the arguments they throw out about why we can’t fight the DNC now, because it isn’t true. Any questions, contact me by clicking on my screen name and scrolling down to the bottom of the article.

  137. I am appalled with the actions of the DNC’s leadership. I am excited about the PUMA and “Just Say No Deal” movement. I am just afraid that the movement will not be able to counter Barack Obama’s movement unless there is an organized effort in the swing states. For example, how do we ensure that Florida and MIchigan have a solid “Just Say No Deal” movement? The DNC’s leadership probably needs to see potential pain in the swing states before they really get worried about the “Just Say No Deal” movement. I know they are assessing the situation now.

  138. Thank you Riverdaughter for explaining everything so well.
    I supported Hillary Clinton and blogged on her site, lit candles at the virtual candle site for Hill, made calls, donated,etc.

    Was crushed with happened and stunned and angry. I couldn’t believe what the Party did to her. I am not a sore loser if I lose fair and square–but not this way.

    I have been a life-long Democrat- but I won’t vote for “Jr.”- will write in Hillary’s name in the general here in Texas. If anyone could have turned Texas back to blue- it was Hillary.
    I am also a member of pumapac.
    I love your blog and visit and read often.
    Thank you for your blog-

  139. Would you please expound on the comment regarding “…plenty of circumstantial evidence that points to plans to elect the anti-Clinton candidate…”?

    Thanks-

  140. Thank You for the sumary! I would like to say I like where this “PUMA” movement is going … but … I really feel strongly that we are not visable enough. What we need to do is be visable at his rallies. Let him see us. Let his Obamabots hear us and know that we are not soar losers, but people who wont be pushed around by our own party. Also if PUMA was at his rallies, we will have a chance to talk face to face with people who voted for HRC… but might be listening to Obama to see who he is. Obama gets his voters with his speeches… if we are there to counter his speeches, we can let HRC fans know they dont have to vote for him. Lets let them know they are not alone. She would fight for us, Im going to fight for her!

  141. I agree that this is bigger than just Hillary or even just Obama. We need to clean out the DNC and bring the real FDR/Truman Democratic party back. (Hillary showed that the voters are still there.)

    But I think strategy (or do I mean tactics?) needs to be in stages. The big thing is NObama in November; if he wins, the Pelosi crowd firms up their control of the DNC.

    Ideally something big should happen before August 25, so the convention would switch to Hillary. I don’t think we can do that with niggling little stuff challenging credentials etc; I think we’re out-gunned on that, I do think that a big enough showing of PUMAs planning to vote against Obama in November — is our only hope for getting Hillary nominated.

  142. Hooray for The Confluence, which said above: “We will not be silenced by our own party. Our votes are our own. The Democrats are not entitled to them.”

    I viewed two TV interviews with Paula Abeles about the 4 am threatening phone calls from Obama thugs, and I am simply stunned. I guess I should not be since intimidation is what I have felt from Obama supporters for months. And while the threats to Abeles take it to a whole new level, it is but a logical extension.

    Here’s what offended me during the primaries–I heard over and over in the media that the rage which would come from the black community if Obama was denied the nomination overwhelmed all other considerations. If Obama didn’t get the nomination, that would be an outrage! But what Hillary’s supporters might feel if she did not get the nomination, well, that was trivial. Along with that the repeated demands that Hillary step down, and an outrage that she hadn’t.

    To me this was an obvious attempt to intimidate Hillary supporters.

    I made up my mind some time ago I will not vote for Barak Obama. The reason is he is a flawed individual and will not make a good president.

    Is my refusal to support Obama based on racism? Well, I marched in civil rights demonstrations in the 1960s, I am a student of black history, I am a jazz fan, I voted twice for Marian Barry when I was a resident of Washington DC. This was after he was charged with drug use, and I voted for him because I liked him personally and because I felt solidarity with the black community regarding Marian Barry. And finally, I would have voted for Al Sharpton had I had an opportunity. Am I a racist?

    The intimidation of Paula Abeles is more of the same as I described above. Now it is outrage there are ANY Hillary supporters who haven’t just fallen in line behind Obama like we were supposed to. Over and over the Obama supporters stated they were absolutely certain once Obama got the nomination, we would all fall in line. “Defection” from the Democratic Party by women seemed to these people inconceivable, and it was. They could truly not imagine women could feel that much solidarity. That is what sexism looks like. It is very much like racism when white racists always claimed blacks were happy in their “place.”

    I am NOT saying the people who are harassing Abeles are black people. Probably they are not! More likely they are white, males and females, who have decided that all we former female Hillary supporters WILL vote for Obama, and if any of us disobey they want to slap us around. That’s how I see it.

    My vote is going to Ralph Nader.

  143. Wonder if you will allow my post. It seems to me that you aren’t thinking critically here. Do you understand that our Supreme Court is in danger? Do you know what will happen if the conservatives are able to put one more conservative on? Goodbye Roe. V. Wade, good bye birth control rights, good bye separation of church and state. Oh and those children you will be forced to have will be sent to war because the republicans want to keep us in Iraq until Kingdom come. Iran is next. WWIII? Yep, a good time to throw away your vote.

  144. Mona:

    Blah blah blah.

    Tell us something we haven’t already heard, considered and rejected.

  145. How many members do you guys have now?

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