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The Ghost of Violet Socks and Cold-blooded Pragmatism

The Ghost of Violet Socks at the Reclusive Leftist lays out a very persuasive argument for not supporting Obama in Archimedes Lever. I encourage you all to scoot over there to read it and here are some tempting morsels:

This has been the problem facing American feminists for years. Long before Hillary ran for President, long before Barack Obama smugly assured the world that Hillary’s supporters would vote for him in a flash, we had a problem. The Democrats weren’t earning our loyalty. They were taking us for granted, knowing that no matter how little they did to earn our support, every year women would still go to the polls and vote Democrat anyway because, remember, the Republicans are even worse….

What we needed, feminists said to each other, was leverage. How could we get leverage? How could we get the Democrats — old and new — to represent women’s interests? How could we create a situation where women’s votes weren’t assumed to be in the bag, but were a prize that Democrats would have to work for?

Voilà. Leverage is here.

It’s here because of Hillary Clinton’s campaign and the shameful way she was treated — by the media, by the Obama camp, and, most damning of all, by the Democratic National Party. Even women who didn’t personally support the Clinton candidacy were nonetheless appalled by the Trashing of Hillary. It’s not that she lost; after all, losing is part of the game. It’s that she wasn’t beaten in a fair fight. She was treated like garbage, and she’s still being treated like garbage. (As of this writing, Howard Dean is refusing to let Hillary’s name be on the ballot for the first vote at the convention, a startling departure from the norm. Hillary Clinton won the popular vote in this campaign and she earned more primary votes for President than any Democratic candidate in the history of this country. And the DNC won’t even let her name be on the ballot.) The huge swell of anger in the land is the righteous rage of millions of women — women who are armed and more than ready to punish the DNC. Over and over the message is being beamed straight to the powers-that-be on a laser light of pure anger: You don’t get to take our votes for granted anymore. No more.

It’s a glorious situation. It’s what we’ve needed for years. Finally, the Democrats have to work for our votes! Finally, we have leverage!

She’s absolutely right but there I’m going to expand on this a bit. Here is our lever and we may never get another crack at it. Now, the Axelrove’s are busily crafting some nifty psychological warfare to use against us. After all, we *are* women and they know that we have been conditioned to look out for others. We are taught to be altruists. We are told that we fulfill ourselves if we sacrifice for others.

F%^& that $*I).

Are they telling me that if any of the blogger boyz were presented with this opportinity that they wouldn’t pull that lever with all their might? Of course they would. There’s nothing self-sacrificing about Markos Moultsas or Joshua Michah Marshall or Matt Yglesias. They’re all about climbing over us and slitting our throats if we get in their way. They don’t waste their time with guilt and shame and duty. They see what it best for them and they pursue it with a single minded intensity. They are cold-blooded pragmatists.

I happen to be a cold-blooded pragmatist as well when it comes to politics. I’m going to harden my heart. I am not going to let anyone play any mindf^*)ing games with me. If the Obamaphiles didn’t want the Democrats to lose this year, they had a choice. It’s now time they exercise it.

As Lady Macbeth said:
“Come, you spirits
That tend on mortal thoughts, unsex me here
And fill me from the crown to the toe top-full
Of direst cruelty!

Let’s not pass this opportunity up. Let’s flex our muscles and pull the lever.

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300 Responses

  1. Yeeeeeehaw! Go, Riverdaughter, go. Grab that level, take three deep slow even breaths …………..and pull. The motto “Remember in November” is a good one. Maybe the DNC will remember this too. If you are thinking altruistically, think what is best for the long range goals of the party of FDR, JFK,RFK and Truman. Give ’em hell, girl.

  2. Dean didn’t know of the sexist treatment of Hillary because he doesn’t watch cable news. Sure, Dean and unless the DNC cut cable as a cost saving measure, then you’re a bad liar.

  3. Think Medea.

  4. Yes! Here’s another quote from Macbeth

    Act I, Scene 7

    Macbeth:
    If we should fail?

    Lady Macbeth:
    We fail?
    But screw your courage to the sticking place,
    And we’ll not fail.

    PUMA!

  5. Riverdaughter you are my hero-and the quote from the “Scottish Tragedy” sealed the deal see the rest today did you very good.

    I am glad for the new thread its time to put the Muslim Issue to Bed.

    I am not a woman but I am a feminist, and I can not believe we are not storming the gate of DNC HQ in Washigton er Chicago.

    I am ready to follow-anyone but Senator Obama….

    Fuzzybear Gville

  6. I am also not a woman, but I do think I am a feminist too. These days, I feel like I hear the cries of women throughout history imploring us to take a stand.

  7. The best men I know are Conflucians.

  8. Since the Obama campaign is so good at attacking and so bad at presenting positives, I’m sure their strategy will be to come out with accusation after accusation of how sexist JM is. That’s how they court the feminist’s vote… “He’s *way* worse than *we* are”.

  9. I watched MSNBC this morning and couldn’t believe my ears. These paid shills are so wrapped up in their grief that they are making some HUGE discretionary mistakes while sharing personal moments/memories regarding Russert. I’ve transcribed said comments and I plan on posting this everywhere that I can. It’s like they are all sitting at a pub marveling at how their “boss” efficiently and effectively got the job done. I have it all on TIVO.

    Here are the players:

    Jeff Zucker, President/CEO NBC Universal
    Andrea Mitchell, NBC Universal foriegn correspondent, reporter
    Chuck Todd, NBC News Political Director
    Sheldon Gawiser, NBC News, Director of Elections

    Transcribed from the 9-10 a.m. broadcast (PST)

    Jeff Zucker “I remember election night 2000 so well. I was producing that night. I remember talking to Tim before the night began about how we were going to be able to explain it. We came up with this crazy idea- just a little message board and Tim writing FLORIDA, FLORIDA, FLORIDA on it. And probably nothing in his entire career- nothing defines Tim as much as that board which now sits in the Smithsonian.”

    Now here’s a segment of the 10-11a.m.(PST) hosted by Mitchell.

    Andrea M.: Shelly, when Tim talked about this campaign year, the best election any of us have experienced… (Chuck Todd interrupts)

    Chuck Todd: You haven’t finished delivering yet though, Shelly. You know what you have to do.

    Sheldon (Shelly) G. : Yeah.

    C. Todd: You know what’s coming next.

    Sheldon (Shelly): Yeah…
    ****************************

    After a few more pontifications, Sheldon says this:
    “As I said earlier, he (Tim) came to me before the election 2000 and said “Get me an election where one candidate wins the popular vote and one candidate wins the electoral vote.” And, of course, that’s EXACTLY what happened.”
    *****************************

    WTF? Do these Yoo-hoos even realize WHAT THEY JUST CONFIRMED? Seriously, this is appalling.

    Hey Republicans…good luck. This time it’s happening to YOU. The elites from BOTH political parties seem to be running their FIXED AND FRAUDULENT ELECTIONS through NBC. Unfuckingbelievable.

    Have I lost my mind?

  10. When younger, I called myself a womanist. I though feminist was too feminine. I just made myself laugh. Do any of you women remember being told things such as, “If you are a feminist, you have to burn your bra.” and “If you smoke that means you are a feminist.” or one I remember well, “Feminists spit (loogies).” These were said to try to discourage you minds from thinking it was okay to be a womanist. 😉

    Second categorization: ¿Friedan or Steinem? I was a Friedanist.

  11. Look for Obama campaign to continue to divide younger women from older ones.

  12. Hello Arabella I hope you rested up today even the most hardend soildiers a battle need a little R and R. Are we not lucky that Riverdaughter sugested this?

    All these new voices to this community I really love it. It is kind of like the gathering before the boston tea party.

    I hope it will have the same effect-I ” Consider this Evolution in Action.”
    fuzzybeargville

  13. meant to say in battle sorry
    fuzzybeargville

  14. I was a feminist since when I can remember! I was born in 1952. My parents were lefty bohemian types.

    I had five sisters and three brothers. My family is a matriarchy. My mom has six grandaughters and four grandsons.

    Feminism is strong in three generations when my family gets together.

    The men are feminists too.

    I love the Conflucian men.

  15. Every argument I hear for Obama is based on the idea that we have an obligation to vote for him. They aren’t even trying to convince us that we should drink the kool-aid, or making promises they don’t indend to keep.

    They just tell us that we owe it to ourselves, the Democratic Party and/or the country to vote for Obama because McCain is worse.

    My vote belongs to me. I owe it to no one. For too many years I have given it away.

    If someone wants it, let them earn it or buy it.

    Hey Barack! My vote is for sale. Despite everything you and your minions have done, I’ll sell it to you cheap.

    The price is Universal Health Care.

    I mean that. Nothing less, no UHC in name only proposal, no empty promises.

    Show me a specific bill and enough Democratic members of Congress who promise in writing to vote “yea” on it next January.

    Then we have a deal.

  16. For me, it is Hillary Clinton or no deal!

  17. Maybe I’m wrong; but if Dean does something like “keep Hillary off the ballot”,that could work for us?
    Hillary & crew will get so angry MAYBE SHE’ll SUPPORT A “WRITE-IN-CAMPAIGN!!
    A girl can dream can’t she?

  18. Leverage, yes but could not have happened in the worst possible way. It might have been the most predictable way, too — younger unqualified man usurping the older qualified woman — what an irony. When all this began, I suspected that this may be what was happening but could never have in a million years anticipated the corruption that went into making it happen — not in America, I used to say to myself and my feminist husband. But here we are today.

    On another topic, I read I think from AP that Mark Warner from VA is not interested in VP — he just accepted the dem nomination for his senate bid.

  19. myiq2xu-
    I am sure Senator Obama’s team’s response is No Deal.

    The big push in the first year of his imaginary presidency will be to meet with Irans Amidinajad, Raul Castro, and Hugo Chavez. Oh I forgot that little guy in North Korea-the one who has a temper and behaves like a spoiled child and thug-Senator Obama and he will have so much to talk about.

    Our “womens issues” and Lgbt agenda will have to wait while he grandstands around the world.

    Fuzzybeargville

  20. It’s good to find like-minded people here. I am so sick of people telling me I have no choice but to shut up and get in line behind Obama. Leverage is a good word.

    Here’s my take on the current state of affairs with help from Ellen Goodman’s advice to get revenge – my post is titled “It’s a Fact: The DNC Couldn’t Even Wait for the Body to Cool.”

    http://katalusis.blogspot.com/2008/06/its-fact-dnc-couldnt-even-wait-for-body.html

  21. I should have said UHC is a womans issue at ObamaInc because anything associated with HRC will be put in that braod catagory

    Fuzzybeargville

  22. Cryptic comment by Anglachel:

    “Fear and resentment dominate this campaign in a way I simply cannot remember happening before. The happy-happy face is a mask over something else entirely. The Stevensonians have received what they believed they wished for.”

    They do seem angry and outraged all the time. They’re like the left wing version of the freepers.

  23. I’ll screw my courage to the sticking place and vote for McCain. That’s the only way to show them I’m serious.

  24. A curse shall light upon the limbs of men;
    Domestic fury and fierce civil strife
    Shall cumber all the parts of Italy;
    Blood and destruction shall be so in use
    And dreadful objects so familiar
    That mothers shall but smile when they behold
    Their infants quarter’d with the hands of war;
    All pity choked with custom of fell deeds:
    And Caesar’s spirit, ranging for revenge,
    With Ate by his side come hot from hell,
    Shall in these confines with a monarch’s voice
    Cry ‘Havoc,’ and let slip the dogs of war;
    That this foul deed shall smell above the earth
    With carrion men, groaning for burial.
    – Julius Caesar, Act 3, Scene 1.

  25. Robin at 6:40 pm – I have already had the “JM is way worse that we are” BS thrown in my face. I think it is a toss up.

  26. I’d like to sit on the sidelines and say I will vote for neither of those power-mad jerks for president, and then vote for all the Democratic candidates down ticket. That keeps my hands clean.

    But I have to vote for McCain because it is clear that the Obama Party won’t listen to me unless they lose.

    I’m just not going to sit back and be above it all and let other people do it for me.

  27. WS: I’m going to take a guess at what Anglachel means. The Stevensonians have wanted nothing more than to take control of the party because after all, they are the intellectuals and they know what is best for the rest of us.
    And now they have complete control – of a party that is 50% thinner.
    Be careful what you wish for?

  28. Great use of the Bard RD,

    Let McBarack come to say these:

    All my pretty ones? Did you say all? — O hell-kite! — All? What, all my pretty chickens and their dam at one fell swoop?

  29. I think Obama needs to be defeated. If he isn’t, what will the DNC have learned about women’s support? It would be just another reminder that women can be trashed by Democrats and they’ll still come home. To me, the abusive husband analogy is totally appropriate.

  30. Robin Morgan wrote an update of her piece “Goodbye To All That” in support of Hillary in February 2008. Ends with:

    Time is short and the contest tightening. We need to rise in furious energy—as we did when Anita Hill was so vilely treated in the U.S. Senate, as we did when Rosie Jiminez was butchered by an illegal abortion, as we did and do for women globally who are condemned for trying to break through. We need to win, this time. Goodbye to supporting HRC tepidly, with ambivalent caveats and apologetic smiles. Time to volunteer, make phone calls, send emails, donate money, argue, rally, march, shout, vote.

    Me? I support Hillary Rodham because she’s the best qualified of all candidates running in both parties. I support her because her progressive politics are as strong as her proven ability to withstand what will be a massive right-wing assault in the general election. I support her because she knows how to get us out of Iraq. I support her because she’s refreshingly thoughtful, and I’m bloodied from eight years of a jolly “uniter” with ejaculatory politics. I needn’t agree with her on every point. I agree with the 97 percent of her positions that are identical with Obama’s—and the few where hers are both more practical and to the left of his (like health care). I support her because she’s already smashed the first-lady stereotype and made history as a fine senator, because I believe she will continue to make history not only as the first US woman president, but as a great US president.

    http://www.womensmediacenter.com/ex/020108.html

  31. RD – That’s my take as well. Anglachel has built a long argument based on the Stevensonians’ need to control the party. I love Anglachel’s work, I have to read and reread her stuff to follow her.

    She is scary smart.

  32. Personally I would not care if Obama worshipped parakeets and detonated firecrackers on his “holy days” while wearing an apron and Birkenstocks; I will not vote for him.

    We can keep sending out signals that he needs to made concessions and sell his agenda to us; I will not vote for him.

    There is nothing at this point that he could do to overcome my distaste for his candidacy; I will not vote for him.

  33. Robin – Thanks so much for posting that. I meant to save it the first time I read it.

  34. Obama has a choice. He can continue to throw his lot with Dean and Olbermann or do the right thing going forward.

    Nobody has to vote for him.

  35. But listen “guys”, handwringing about storming the gates doesn’t cut it—I know there are actions out there, but it would be great if The Confluence would keep the rest of us up with what’s coming down. For instance, are we going to Denver? or are we kept out for lack of a permit? Are we creating a “mirror” to B.O.’s anti-smear website (wherein we point up where alleged smears are actually the truth, etc.) Why don’t we protest Dean’s refusing to have her name on the ballot. Perhaps Hillary should take his place—she certainly has far stronger credentials than Dean! She would lead the way in changing some of the rules in the DNC. Anyway, my point is, it’s been a few weeks, we’re obviously being heard here and there, but diffidence is setting in…. what’s our next action? I fear our determination is already on the wane, the more evidence that it’s all “a done deal” becomes widespread! I fear that as women (many of us) we’re disinclined to stoke conflict, to be activists, to “storm the gates” literally. Or maybe I’m the only one out of the circult–if so, please enlighten me.

  36. I don’t look at is as diffidence. Now that HIllary is (temporarily) out of the picture, Obama is being exposed to real scrutiny.

    I am sending Hillary money to retire her campaign debt. I’m contacting all my Dem reps and delegates. I am keeping up with the news via the blogs.

    Mostly I am telling everybody in no uncertain terms that I am voting for McCain. Voting for McCain is the only weapon I have. Publicly stating that I will do so is a form of testimony.

    But that’s just me. To everything there is a season.

    Time is on our side. Yes it is.

  37. Hathshep: There are groups coming together. We are only just starting to coalesce but things are happening. This is not the People’s Front of Judea.
    As for Denver, I have a free place to stay that is pretty close to the convention center so even though I won’t have press credentials to get into the convention center (maybe captfusfp can cover it from the inside), I will be able to cover any potential mayhem from the outside.
    Must find gas mask…

  38. Don’t get your hopes up too high with regard to getting her name on the first ballot. They want her name “scrubbed” from any consideration in Denver. It is not too far fetched to even consider that she will have to go to them hat in hand to have any contribution she may wish to offer be part of the plank.

    The Obama campaign and surrogates have essentially won this round. She has been pilloried to their immense satisfaction and her votes have been seized. They wish to do as much with the delegate count.

    Short of him doing something amazingly stupid or negative information is produced that cannot be ignored, they will march into Denver with a done deal. You are witnessing a hostile takeover of outlandish proportions by a group of people who can only be described as nefarious.

    Hillary is up against a machine she never expected to deal with. These people are corrupt.

  39. Obama GOP Bring A Knife we Will Bring A Gun
    And He Wants To Be President Good LAWD
    http://countusout.wordpress.com/

  40. Arabella Trefoil, on June 14th, 2008 at 6:33 pm Said:
    The best men I know are Conflucians.

    Thank you. Thank you.

  41. Pat: If that’s true, they are going to lose big. To keep her name off the ballot after she won more votes is a violatio against the voters. I want my vote for her read out by the New Jersey delegates. It makes no sense to piss us off any further. They just end up digging deeper into the hole as the money continues to dry up.
    These bastards deserve what’s coming to them.

  42. Pat Johnson – I haven’t given up yet. Hillary is lying low right now. That’s good because now Obama is getting the heat.

    We have to see how this plays out. We have many options.

    I am optimistic, comme always.

  43. hat and RD,

    me and mawm are going to be there too. we got a hotel room in Evergreen which is about 30 miles out. No credentials either, but we are going to be there to show are displeasure. Mawm is working on a website that hopefully will be like a clearinghouse for organizing protests, confronting party members, and getting ready for denver. he hopes to have it up and running by the end of the weekend. We have also talked about organizing events during gay pride festivals. They are common throughout the summer in bigger cities. DC’s was this weekend (we were too late). NY is in two weeks and we REALLY would like to get something visible going for that. If anyone is in the NYC area and wants to help, look for mawms site by tom. night. I think we’re going to be there. so yeah, we’re getting into high gear. We have to make as much noise as possible for the next two months.

  44. garychapelhill and mawm – That;s great news. Thank you.

    puma puma puma

  45. RD, LOL, People’s Front of Judea.

    The “We are all individuals !!” scene reminds me of Obamabots too:

  46. A “Done Deal” in August is a “Deal Undone in November!
    Fuzzybeargiville

  47. I really hate these people which is disturbing. It was okay for me to hate Bush as the damage he was doing was blatant and irreversible in most instances. He lied. He cheated. He subverted. The ends justify the means in his world.

    But this is different. Subtle. We sat here for months hoping against hope that each win would get her closer to the nomination never considering that nothing she did would matter. The fix was in.

    The collaboration amongst this criminal campaign, their surrogates and the MSM was astonishing. The support he garnered was never based on experience or qualifications which was the most puzzling of all. So few in the MSM even defended her but continued to look the other way with him.
    I knew in my heart that something was happening that none of us could ever consider.

    The Rules Committee cemented that instinct. These are bad people.

  48. I support HIllary Clinton. No other choice for me. So, if I don’t have that choice, what choice do I have? I cannot vote for John McCain. He’s the most pitiful, pathetic, excuse for a candidate–perhaps EVER. The GOP is embarrassed by him, and well they should be. He is just freaking PATHETIC. He’s old; he’s sorry; he’s inept.

    Barack Obama looks like a powerhouse next to him. And, yet, that coward won’t even debate him in Town Hall formats.

    God, HIllary Clinton could clean John McCain’s clock in a heartbeat. And, Barack Obama is afraid of a pathetic old man.

    It’s mind-boggling! We’ve gone from an embarrassment of riches in the Democratic Party to a couple of losers who are afraid of each other.

    Where are our leaders in this country?!

  49. I hope I linked that correctly? Sorry, if not

  50. Anglachel is certainly a cerebral writer but there are many on this blog who can easily fall into that same category. There are some talented ladies and gentlemen who post diaries that are equally impressive. The passion jumps right off the page!

  51. I’m angry about what happened, but I’m keeping my emotions out of it. I don’t have a lot of energy and I have to conserve it. The way I deal with adversity is to stay positive and focused. Again, that’s just me.

    I think one of my Irish ancestors must have married a Talaxian.

  52. The corporate interests control the leadership in this country. There are no true leaders. That is why when someone does stand up and say something we all feel, the rarity of it causes us to go into euphoria.

    Congressional ratings are at an all time low which in itself describes the mood of this country. We all feel the lack of leadership. Yet there is a contingent out there so hungry for change that they look at this poseur Obama as someone who can actually make it happen.

    The blinders may have to be surgically removed.

  53. Pat Johnson – Ha ha! I was going to say that the people here were scary smart like Anglachel. But I thought I’d sound like Eddie Haskell. But you’re right. I love Confluence because the people here are so intelligent and passionate.

    And witty, very witty.

  54. I’m a man, and the putsch Senator Obama’s movement is making to take over the (formerly) Democratic Party has me scared as hell. The purges have already begun, it seems, and the convention is going to be nothing but bad theater.

    Senator Obama does not have the experience, the knowledge, nor – especially – the backbone and the moral courage that are a necessity for a President, in my opinion.

    Now the Party, under Senator Obama, is going to try to win the White House by being just like the Republicans; “Faith In Action,” “Joshua Generation,” etc. (Does anyone besides me see a chilling similarity between that “Joshua Generation” Project and the Youth movement that flourished in the Germany of the 1930s and 40s?)

    Voting for Senator Obama sends the message, loudly and clearly, that the tactics his campaign used against Senator Clinton are OK, that the media bias in favor of one candidate over another is OK, that race-baiting and misogyny are OK, that the DNC’s failure to call Senator Obama and the media out on their treatment of a fellow Democrat is OK, that the RBC vote-stealing is OK, and that it will never matter how qualified a woman is if she is running against a man – no matter how unqualified he is.

    I won’t sanction that message. I won’t vote for Senator Obama. I am going to be a net loss of two votes for him. I will vote – on grounds of Senator Obama’s lack of qualifications and in protest – for Senator McCain. As I have said before, I apologize in advance to any women for whom the SG2RvW argument trumps all others.

    The two party system only works if we have two parties. Two different parties. A four year McCain Presidency is worth bearing if it will make the Democrats be democrats again.

  55. Consider this Evolution in Action-
    I am waiting eagerly for riverdaughter to get back with us tommorrow after the “Justsaynodeal.com” confrence call.

    Over 80 organizations have been created to respond to this mockery of democracy I hope you can from an unbrella organization to co-ordinate actions from now till August and on to November.

    Yes the forces of the/a rebel alliance are planted and the movement shall be televised.

    Fuzzybeargville

  56. Hathsepsut, I plan to storm the gates by escalating actions. This November I will vote Green Party, rather than for Obama, but I plan to vote Democratic down-ticket (with the exception of one local person who campaigned for Obama.) On the day I cast that vote, I intend to contact the DNC with this message: unless Democrats demonstrate, by their ACTIONS, a commitment to full equality for women (ie. resurrecting the ERA, standing up to conservative SCOTUS selections, etc.,) then I will up the pressure in two years by voting against Democrats at the federal level (Congressman and Senators.) If enough of us vote against Obama, McCain will become POTUS, and it will be clear that Democrats lose without feminist voters (male and female.) That, coupled with the greater threat of feminists voting against Democratic Congressmen and Senators, should be enough to convince them. Just asking Obama for a promise–“just words”–only asks for more abuse.

    Only by denying the Democratic Party the presidency AND by threatening to chip away at the Democratic majority in the Legislature, will attention be paid to women’s issues.

  57. NotThatStupid, hear hear!

  58. I read something about the “practical puma” that they’re throwing at us now, trying to claim we have to vote for Obama because he’s the “devil we know.” Well, they got it wrong. McCain is the devil we know. Obama is the devil we don’t, and every new thing I find out about him just scarily proves that we really don’t know him.
    They’re trying to co-opt PUMAs, but the whole point of PUMAs is to not vote for Obama. They may or may not vote for McCain, but they will definitely not vote for Obama. The concept of a “practical puma” is another way of saying “shut up and sit down.”

  59. Riverdaughter..I’d like to cover mayhem from the outside of the convention as too–or perhaps be part of a group prepared to create some—and have a place to stay in D.C.. I’d be glad to join you, and others…if I know where and when.

    It seems true what some have said above about McCain’s weaknesses—his recent manner of dissing the Supreme Court doesn’t help. So, is it true then that it’s likely that Obie will indeed be our next POTUS? Oy! And, to the extent that this looks likelier, does it strengthen the case to push for Hillary as VP? or not?

  60. Yes the forces of the/a rebel alliance are planted and the movement shall be televised.

    Fuzzybeargville

    Yep.

  61. practical puma, schmactical puma.

  62. If you had asked me in February to rank-order the candidates, I would have said Clinton by a wide margin, then Obama by a margin I’ve never bothered to think about, then McCain. Clinton isn’t a candidate any more, so I won’t move McCain ahead of Obama just because Obama knocked off Clinton by non-sancta means. The well-being of the candidates, and the idea of rewarding good candidate behavior while punishing bad candidate behavior, means nothing to me.

    If you could tell me with metaphysical certainty that a McCain victory would whip the Democratic Party back into what we want it to be, I’d think about it even though I know a McCain presidency would be devastating to many vulnerable people. But given now weird and unprecedented the last several months have been, what makes anyone believe that an Obama loss would lead to a recomposition of the party along sensible lines, as opposed to more virulence, more purges, and a bunch of electorally useless space junk where the party used to be?

  63. Did he really say he’d bring a gun if they bring a knife? This campaign season might be the worst we’ve seen.

    I’m encouraged by the last Survivor. The women took control and never let go.

  64. Pat – I agree. I trot at the edge of the abyss frequently and I have to reach really far to grab a helpful hand at times. So far, my conflucians peeps have always pulled me back.

    The Obamaputz bloggers are going nuts that we are not submitting. Nothing is working. We can’t be scared, shamed or threatened into submission. They are now seriously scared that they have lost a big chunk of voters. The fear is rising every day.

    I spend a lot of time doing intelligence (ha!) gathering.

  65. Florida will not support Senator Obama. It might not support Senator Clinton too, but if she were running Senator McCain would have to waste far more resources here against Senator Clinton than Senator Obama it will be a McCain Cakewalk here in November with Senator Obama.

    By the way Orlando Pride is in October (June to hot in FL for pride) It would be some statement if we had representation in their Pride so close to the election.

    I think we might get half the LGBT vote to abstain in November and maybe 15% vote for McCain.
    our tag line could be ” the time to settle is over! Protest Vote McCain”

    Fuzzybeargville

  66. what makes anyone believe that an Obama loss would lead to a recomposition of the party along sensible lines, as opposed to more virulence, more purges, and a bunch of electorally useless space junk where the party used to be?

    we don’t, but we do know that if Obama wins, our wing of the party will be silenced for good. I’m willing to take that chance. And I’m willing to sit through a mccain presidency to have the chance to retake our party. I do not vote for anyone out of fear.

  67. The only thing we have left that holds any interest for the DNC is our wallet. By withholding what they want they will have been sent the message that we no longer want to do business with the present slate.

    Money talks. I am now getting solicitations from the Obama campaign and I have never signed up for anything with them that would have my address available. They have either procured it from the DNC or Hillary has turned over her contributor list.

    So far I have sent back two solicitations but they keep on coming. The same with the DNC. My pockets are empty to either cause.

  68. Arabella, yes, their “Get back here b!@#$, or you’ll be sorry” strategy is not working as effective as they had anticipated 🙂

  69. effectively

  70. The only way to show clout is with numbers. All disenfranchised must coalesce. The LGBT, Jewish voters, blue collars, Latinos, women. A numerical show of force. Gathered together that is strength. No one group can go it alone.

  71. Rich in PA, my vote is the only voice I have in our representative Democracy. Obama doesn’t represent me, and he and his surrogates have made it clear they don’t want or need me.
    I don’t have any idea if McCain winning would make the party come back to its principles, but I know an Obama win would absolutely confirm that the Democratic party doesn’t need principles. It just needs money and hype.

    The Democratic party has fundamentally lost its way. I believe we nee divided government now. We need checks and balances. I see an Obama presidency as a disaster on so many levels.

  72. I’m betting that the DNC got sold their souls for a suitcase full of cut up news paper. Obama’s famous “database” of donors? Bogus, I’ll bet. The new voters? How many of them will show up on election day time after time?

    Dean, Pelosi and Brazile wanted to get rid of the old base and build a pretty new party out of AA’s: Adolescent Americans, Academic Americans and African Americans.

    Stevensonians in action. I’ll pass. I will vote for McCain and let the Stevensonians crash and burn.

  73. PS –

    Mawm, on June 14th, 2008 at 6:25 pm Said:

    Think Medea.

    Also, think Lysistrata

  74. That Senator McCain is a weak candidate is hubris on the part of pundits and ObamaInc.

    Look people he ran in a party where the religious right tried every trick in the book to knock him off. It did not work he sowed up his Nomination months before Senator Obama was carried over the finish line.

    I think everyone including his fellow party members are under-estimating Senator McCain. Everyone who does so, does so at their own risk.

    He reminds me a lot of Ron Reagan and hey he survuved 5 years in a box and walked thru fire on the Forrestal. He is alot like our dear Hillary tenacious.

    His politics will be kept in line by congress.

    Fuzzybeargville

  75. I’ve seen what Obama and the DNC can do when they have unchecked power (the RBC). I do not trust them to run all branches of government.

    My vote won’t necessarily be for changing the DNC or the Democratic establishment, considering it may be so resistant to change that it doesn’t matter. Certainly the 2006 election didn’t change anything. The vote was a mandate on the Iraq War and we’re still in Iraq.

    My vote will be for divided government.

    And certainly, if Obama loses in a landslide, it has to send a message for changing the Democratic Party. But they may still ignore it.

    But I’ll have my divided government anyway.

  76. Mawm, gary: I would not be able to travel to Denver but I am willing to donate something to help defray the cost. It would be my way of participating once again.

    I admire the resolution that you each have shown and your determination to be heard.

    We can decide how this can be accomplished when the time comes. Unless of course, the “heir presumptive” has a few more skeletons ready to flee the closet.

  77. michael: Let us not discount that McCain was with a lot of just awful candidates. He probably won more by default than anything else.

  78. sorry should have been- it is huberis on the part …

    Fuzzybeargville

  79. Somebody on kos said “Why can’t Hillary just send them an e-mail telling them that she endorsed McCain?” and “Hillary lost. Why can’t they just get over it?”

    Those stupid b@tches. They’re ruining it for the rest of us.

    It was really hot today in that hazmat suit, but it was worth checking out the Obamaborgs. They are in a mounting panic.

  80. Arabella said : “I will vote for McCain and let the Stevensonians crash and burn. ”

    I’ll bring the marshmallows. Anyone wanna try for S’Mores?

  81. PatJ: But you can’t discount McCain too much. He’s spent years cultivating his image so that he’s probably the only Republican candidate out there that could actually pull off a presidential win.

    Most Republicans wouldn’t have a chance in this climate. But a “maverick?” Maybe

  82. not that stupid—I wrote a whole post on lysistata!

  83. Pat- that is true but Huckabee was the Fundie made candidate-and he got little traction.

    We have had a year of weak candidates winning. I think the Republican party is more “loyal” it is run like Exxon/Mobil.

    The Democratic Party is run more like a McDonalds Franchise system.

    Each Franchisor pretty much running his own thing accept once every four years the franchise general meeting is held and ta-da we have a nominee who everyone can support. Some thing went wrong this time. Half the franchisors wont come to the table.

    Fuzzybeargville

  84. As you may know I am not a fan of Deval Patrick. But apparently today he marched in the Gay Pride Parade in Boston alongside his 18 yr old daughter who announced this week that she is gay.

    As a mother of a gay son, I am very much impressed with Gov. Patrick. He is first a parent. What he did on behalf of his daughter is a loving tribute to his child.

  85. I love so’mores-mmmm

    Fuzzybeargville

  86. Here’s another kossack “Don’t they understand they’re setting back women’s rights two generations!”

    And out come the wire coat hangers. Honey, put that hanger down. Why do you keep picking up that nasty thing and waving it in my face? Were you born in a dry cleaners?

    It’s pathetic what they’re saying.

  87. He has also mede sure she can marry the girl of her choice -brava-brava-

    PatJ you are the mother of a gay son I love you even more….is he single?-err sorry I just think you would be an AWSOME mother in law….

    Fuzzybeargville

  88. Sorry – Gov. Patrick has made it possible that his daughter can marry the girl of his choice….

    Fuzzybeargville

  89. michael: He is the best thing I have ever done. He is the third of 4 children and enjoys the love and support of his brothers, sister, nieces, nephew. I love my children dearly but to be honest, he is the nicest one. To everybody.

  90. Arabella: Thank God you are doing the dirty work in this recon mission! Those people are nuts!

  91. Pat you make my heart melt more proud parents like you are what we need. If we had that kind of love then then Hillary Clinton would have won hands down-

    Fuzzybeargville

  92. Charlie Lemnos – That’s exactly it. The Shiny New Party has cast off that drab, tiresome working class.

    They are arrogant enough to smack their lips as they sip their lattes and say, “After all, where will those people go?”

    To the Repuplican party, that’s where.

    Obama brings a new toxic strain to the “F@ck ’em” strategy. His campaign wins by supressing the vote. They will try to keep the working class home by any means possible. Demoralizing people so they don’t show up is one way to do this. But there are other ways. Oh yes, there are many other ways.

  93. African Americans are usually in the FDR wing of the party except this year because of a favorite son.

  94. Arabella- are you still with us?

    I was thinking sdid you say you may go to denver in August? I hope you do along with riverdaughter we will have two strong voices there.

    Fuzzybeargville

  95. I see many strong and varied reactions, but it seems we forfeit the very leverage we may now have by not attempting some single concrete action or influence PRIOR to the election. …perhaps demand Hillary’s name be on the ballot at the convention. But there’s clearly one OBLIGATION the SDs must be compelled to make good on at the convention, and we are well within our rights to see to it that they do: their job is to provide reasons, arguments, and facts for judging B.O. the most likely to be elected in the GE, and in so doing, consider and justifiably repudiate evidence that Hillary is more likely to be elected. I mean, this is the STATED JOB AND RAISON D’ETRE for the SDs. That is the DEFINITION of their task, to which they agreed to perform. Spitting out a name fails to constitute EVIDENCE to justify what must, by definition of their charge, be the basis and ground for their vote. Else, they are failing to carry out their central duty, thereby invalidating the entire nomination process. Brazille’s momma wants RULZ–let’s compel them to follow them. Even if they still wind up voting for Hillary, let’s have their REASONING and EVIDENCE on RECORD! Ample time must therefore be set aside at the convention for this task!

  96. Arabella Trefoil, on June 14th, 2008 at 8:46 pm Said:

    Demoralizing people so they don’t show up is one way to do this.

    Yes, even converting a JM vote to third party or write-in is OK too, but staying home is best for them.

  97. fuzzybeargville – I can’t go to Denver because of family responsibilities, but I’ll be there in spirit. And I’ll be here on the blog cheering everybody on.

  98. Mawm, you say that “my vote is the only voice I have in our representative Democracy,” but that’s not true. Your VOICE is itself a voice, and to the extent that you can get people to listen, it’s arguably more important than your one vote. I’d deal away my vote for a greater reach for my political opinions, whether or not they deserve it. This is kind of a metaphysical point, but it is relevant because my argument has been that we don’t give up our power, to whatever extent we have it, if we don’t go the PUMA route. Personally, I think the electoral math is more favorable to Obama than most people here seem to think, and to that extent I would argue that putting all of your voice into your vote, and losing, would be the worst possible outcome.

    To the extent that your vote IS your voice, it’s only powerful to the extent that it’s seen as a vote against interest: that you feel so strongly about Obama that you’re willing to put McCain in there even though he’s not your guy. If you felt that McCain better represented your values, we wouldn’t be having this discussion at all, or at least in this way: you’d be a Republican, or a Blue Dog Democrat, and my sense is that you’re not, nor is anyone here that I have read. Quite the contrary- you’re a party person, so to speak, and to a far greater extent than I am. I would accept an incrementally worse presidential outcome to get a much better party outcome, but I don’t value the party enough to take a much worse presidential outcome–even with the certainly of a much better party outcome, which I just don’t see except as one possible result among many.

  99. Gary, I went to a Pride Fest last sunday. I didn’t see much political stuff – no t shirts or buttons – but I did get into a conversation with a group of women who were pissed about the way the campaign went down. they were also confused because they couldn’t imagine voting for McCain. we had a good conversation. they all seemed relieved to be talking about it and meeting like-minded people.

  100. That is ok I work for a public utility and August is impossible for me to get time off too. We have 50,000 UF students returning that month and its the height of hurricane season-so I to must sit on the sidelines and watch from here.

    That said I am willing to do anything to help organize the rebel alliance in florida I am only an hour and a half from Orlando and would gladly go to an organizing meeting in that great city.

    Orlando is the buckle on the legendary I-4 corridor on which victroy in florida rests.

    Fuzzybeargville

  101. Rich “..the electorial math favors Obama….” that is just not true. Ohio and Florida are going in McCains pocket so is Missouri Pennsylvannia still in the air with your Ed Rendell quoting Obama “….we just need the checks…” giveng the casey democrats there marching orders….

    That is math that does not favor obama, if you figure in millions of Hillacrats defecting it just gets worse.

    My Question is Do You Support Senator Obama for a 4 year disaster in the White House? this to surely be followed by 12-16 years of republican rule in same White House? is that the short term thinking I am gettig from you?

    Fuzzybeargville

  102. Why not consider an action/protest or whatever shortly BEFORE the Convention to let be known our demands about what we want them to do at the convention (e.g., make the SDs give the basis for their vote, as their duty demands, by delineating their reasons, and hearing arguments and counterargument, for concluding B.O. is more electable than Hillary). It would be INVALUABLE to have it revealed that the real reason the remaining undecided SDs turned their backs on Hillary was Pelosi COERCION. Why are we letting remain under wraps the dirty secret that these votes were NOT adequately based on the intended grounds, according to the DNC RULZ?? Why are we letting Pelosi get away with successfully “stepping in” JUST AS SHE THREATENED TO DO? Outing the SDs would be hugely, HUGELY satisfying and would be a highly effective way to DEMONSTRATE the problem at the root of our discontent—else they just dismiss us! Let’s OUT and SHAME them, and demonstrate Brazile’s hypocracy! Am I alone in thinking this? I mean, we keep hearing of the feirce urgency of now—let’s jump on it before we fizzle!

  103. I am with you, Riverdaughter. I can’t vote for McCain, but I also can’t vote for Obama. And I’m not sure that the Democratic Party can survive Obama in the WH anyway, so I surely won’t hold it against anyone who chooses McCain. For those who say McCain is worse than Bush, well, they’re delusional. McCain ain’t great, but I do have respect for the fact that he went to Vietnam and that he didn’t take the opportunity to leave behind the torture along with his fellow soldiers.

  104. The Obama campaign is using Roe V. Wade on us, exactly the way the Bush campaign used 9-11 on us. Scare those little ladies! Then let them know who will rush to their rescue.

    Certainly, we’d have the ERA passed and we wouldn’t have the supreme court we have now, if a bunch of those guys would have followed through with their promises.

    I have to say, the this is so like many men I know, promise you anything, seal the contract and then don’t deliver the goods …

  105. Pat,

    I don’t know how you come up with these comments, but the has to be the funniest and strangest one ever:

    “Personally I would not care if Obama worshipped parakeets and detonated firecrackers on his “holy days” while wearing an apron and Birkenstocks; I will not vote for him.”

    I wish we could search for comments here. I’d like to collect all of the and put them together. You are a very funny woman.

  106. How did it go witht he kids, BB?

  107. Rich in PA,
    My vote is not just a protest vote. I believe Obama is a corrupt politician wedded to George Soros, and the corrupt Daly machine. I think He would be dangerous for America and set both the country and the party back. He has already drug the party back to the racial, class, and age divisiveness of the 1960s.
    And like I have said before, I have seen what one party rule can do to this country when there is no checks and balances between the executive and legislative branches. From what I have seen of the Democratic party and Obama this season, I do not trust what they would do given all of that power. I WANT divided government if Hillary is not the nominee. She is the only Democrat I would trust to keep the nut-cases in congress from pushing our country over the cliff.

  108. I am not too worried about a McCain presidency for the very reason that I believe right now the Repub Party is on the ropes. This clears the way for an increased Dem congress who will block any programs McCain would introduce that go against the country.

    (The fact that I can still say this having Reid and Pelosi in charge of the agenda is delusional but how much worse can it be from what we have now. I am not willing to pledge Obama.)

  109. UpstateNY:

    I had fun as always. I babysit for them at least once a week, usually on Thursday. This week I had Thursday off because they went to the beach with their grandmother. Thanks for asking. How is your fixer upper coming along?

  110. Another dropper outer flees the vp position…
    Mark Warner
    http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gz07QNvs6VrOLG_h2T1gySYhq19wD91A48E80

  111. Vote Green! Seriously!

    It’s the only party that openly states feminism as one of its core principles.

    John McCain is a warmongering neoconservative who jokes about bombing Iran. Cynthia McKinney is an American hero who FULLY opposed war with Iraq from the beginning and fought for the right of women to wear pants in the House (not joking – how ludicrous is it that a mere 20 years ago women couldn’t wear pants in the House of Representatives. Disgusting.) And the other Green candidates for President are impressive in their own right.

    If you’re going to take a stand for feminism, vote for a candidate who believes in it. John McCain is not a friend to women’s issues in this country.

  112. and since we’re talking shakespeare here … i would like to suggest that Henry VI be updated from

    The first thing we do, let’s kill all the lawyers ….

    to …

    kill all the pundits

    just a suggestion …

  113. Good for Mark Warner! This VP search is beginning to take on the same glow as McGovern’s search for VP. We may end up with Donna B yet since the number of people jumping overboard are matching the same number being tossed under the bus.

  114. I agree on the action:

    “demand Hillary’s name be on the ballot at the convention”.

    What precedent is there for removing it?

  115. Good night.

    Sweet dreams.

  116. Did you read that memo from that florida lawyer that was on no quarter? He actually used the word purge …

    I don’t think he even realized how stalinist it sounded.

  117. Dean is trying to stop Hillary’s name from being on the ballot at the convention. I’m not liking Obama style unity. Very Chicago-esque.

    What was McGovern’s VP search like?

  118. Nite Arabella!

  119. McGovern had a hard time finding a candidate for VP. He finally chose Tom Eagleton of MO. It came out that Eagleton had undergone 3 electroshock treatments for depression. He finally stood aside and McGovern had to start all over again. Not many had an interest and he ended up with Sargent Shriver. McGovern went down to defeat as we all know. But most people who were approached ran the other way.

  120. I’m thinking Dem pols don’t want to be associated with a potentially losing ticket. For such a strong Dem year, that there’s a possibility we could lose is amazing.

  121. This is the Obama Party now. And he will do what he wants to.

  122. Cynthia McKinney is a nut-case. She actually believes the US started 9/11 and also bombeb the levies in New Orleans. She was also the congresswoman who assaulted a Capitol Police Officer because he asked to see her ID.

    I can’t believe the Green party put her up.

    I have looked into the green party, because I have been so mad at the Democrats since 2006. Unfotunately, it seems to me that the Green party is being run by some really radical nutty people.

  123. Have no idea where Hillary is these days but I hope she is sitting quietly somewhere making voodoo dolls.

  124. Mawm, she too is actually tied to Farrakahn. These days who isn’t it seems.

  125. Me being simple-minded and all, it seems to my genetically inferior Appalachian brain to be pretty simple. We have one candidate who was nominated by the Republican party and another one who was nominated by caucuses in 12-14 republican states with about a million votes amounting to about 120-130 delegates.

    So there’s a choice between a republican who isn’t afraid of who he is and one who carries a Democratic label who keeps telling me who he’s not. Authenticity does mean something when you are looking for leadership.

    So if I’m punishing one candidate by withholding my vote, extinguishing bad behavior isn’t a bad thing — just ask Cesar Millan.

  126. Good night, my Talaxian friend.

  127. I’m not sure if I sat in a swing state I’d want my name that closely attached to Obama and his soul train — Wright, Ayers, Pfleger, Farakhan

    that’s a heck of a lot to have to carry around if your state is full of working class white folks …

  128. BB: it is coming along. With some luck we will be moving to our new place sometime by the end of the month (if not, sometime in July).

    I see the folks at the Confluence have been busy today.

  129. She didn’t assault the officer, he grabbed her from behind and she pushed him off of her.

  130. Just read the Molly Ivors posting over at Whiskey Fire. I like Molly but she is predicting a 47 state win for Obama.

  131. As a yellow dog dem, I was a passionate Gore supporter, and vociferous in my outrage about the 2000 Florida count, but — and I’ve never told this to a living soul — on 9/11, my first thought was that if I had even suspected something like this was going to happen, I would have wanted McCain in office. More than Gore, and certainly more than Bush (who was circling the skies for a day or so before deciding it was safe to land, if memory serves).

    So, I can live with voting for McCain, I guess.

  132. McKinney wasn’t sanctioned by the Congress for her conduct in the Capital incident and she’s apologized to the officer. It was a misunderstanding that got out of control. On 9/11 she supported additional investigations but she hasn’t said that she believes that the Bush admin caused it. I also support additional investigations, even though I mostly believe the 9/11 commission report.

    Anyways there are other Green candidates for President. And if taking on our two parties of racist, sexist corporatism means that I’m “radical and nutty”, then I proudly claim those labels.

    The candidate who is without a doubt both radical and nutty is the guy who jokes about bombing Iran.

  133. Pat, you mean a 57 state win?

  134. pat, I thought we was going to win all 57 🙂

  135. we=he

  136. upstate, we’re on the same wavelength…

  137. Great minds think alike

    UpstateNY and garychapelhill.

  138. I see, gary, great minds…

  139. Sorry all,

    We finally have rain in drought striken florida-Our Karma for standing behind Hillary is paying off. I dot Knocked offiine by a near lighting miss here. I had to go out and see if gov. Richardson was standing around….

    goodnight sweet arabella-until we post again may flights of angels carry you to you sleep…
    Fuzzybeargville

  140. You beat me to it, BB

  141. Sister, that is not how it was reported at the time.

    The 51-year-old McKinney scuffled with a police officer on March 29 when she entered a House office building without her identifying lapel pin and did not stop when asked. Several police sources said the officer, who was not identified, asked her three times to stop. When she kept going, he placed a hand somewhere on her and she hit him, according to the officials.

    She also made a public apology on the house floor saying she was sorry she “escalated” the incident.

  142. Fuzzy “goodnight sweet arabella-until we post again may flights of angels carry you to you sleep…”

    🙂

  143. Fabulous post. RD, I borrowed your phrase about cold-blooded pragmatism (and credited you) on the latest post over at http://heidilipotpourri.blogspot.com/ “In the name of cold-blooded pragmatism…”

    As always you are inspiring and articulate. Thank you.

  144. She only said 47. The remaining 10 will be McCain’s. I love Molly but come on!!! Does anyone actually buy this?

  145. so Pat and BB what did I miss?

  146. michael: I solved the mystery of life. Too bad you missed it. Am not going to repeat it again as I am very hot and it is muggy here. Sorry.

  147. Obama will not win New Mexico nor Ohio nor Florida…and now Pennsylvannia and California are in play too

    Obama better raise some cash and raid the down ticket congressional and Senate war chest being Popular can be so expensive….

    Fuzzybeargville

  148. If Obama is going to win all 57 states he’ll have to do it without my help.

    My position isn’t that I’m trying to defeat Obama, I’m just refusing to vote for him.

    It’s like having a scrawny loudmouth buddy that gets drunk and picks a fight with a bunch of bikers.

    It’s his fight, so he can fight it himself.

  149. As only a mother with a Gay son could….darn that lightning and no Gov. Richardson around
    Fuzzybeargville

  150. Whatever happens in November. Obama, Dean, Brazile and CO have awoken the activist in me. She had been sleeping since early 90s when she protested with ActUp. She sleepwalked to the fridge a couple times to protest the Iraq War, but NOW she’s awake, pissed, and ready to snap necks.

    Go PUMA!

  151. We should run a pool about who the VP pick will be and when he will announce. Does he have the cojones to make that selection prior to Denver when not all votes are official?

    Date:

    Who:

    When:

  152. I miss the good stuff-
    Fuzzybeargville

  153. I’ve been thinking about this whole social issue/roe v. wade thing and what is a good way to respond to that guilt trip. the problem that has always occurred for democrats is that the majority of the country does not vote on social issues. the benefit bush had was that the religious right voted en masse for him and one could say he was elected because of his appeal to social conservatives. electing someone because of social issues or the supreme court will most likely get you a BAD president. how pathetic is it that someone’s most important issue in voting is abortion?

  154. is there some new poll out of CA or something?

  155. Looking at electoral-vote.com, all the regularly Republican states are pretty solid for McCain except for Virginia and Colorado. McCain has to solidify those two states and get back New Hampshire, which the McCain camp has stated is like his “second home.”

    As for Obama, he has a lot of barely Democrat swing states most likely due to a modest bounce from being selected as nominee. All it would take is for a GOP induced faux controversy, real controversy, and/or attack to tilt enough to the R’s way and I’m looking squarely at Ohio, Michigan, and Missouri.

  156. pat, what 3 does mccain win?

  157. My inner activist is female.

  158. Yeah, ben,I was wondering the same thing. I have heard several people talking about CA being in play.

  159. Oh to be arrested at the convention Mawm that was you at the ACTUP meeting? I thought you were familiar….Yes I wish I could convince the HRC and NGLTf to support our movement.

    Fuzzybeargville

    Pat VP welll….Michelle Obama in the Library with a Candlestick-oops wrong game

  160. McCain wins the great state of Nova Scotia, East Carolina, and Lake Heron.

  161. I think the HRC is in the tank. for obie wan. typical for DC elite…

  162. Mawn, has Canada lost a province?

  163. gary: Utah, Texas, New Hampshire, Arizona?

  164. I remember the incident pretty well. From what I recall, she went through the checkpoint as she was fully entitled to do, and the guy went after her. He told her to stop, but she didn’t hear him. He grabbed her from behind and she pushed him off. The stuff about her hitting him (usually with a cell phone) was alleged after the fact, after it came out that the Capitol Police had a history of harassing her and a few other black reps and had been warned about it, given her picture and told to leave her alone. Of course, the blogger boyz made a big deal of it because she’s black and female and outspoken, the type they like to demonize. Even Bob Barr defended her.

    To be perfectly frank, the excuse about not recognizing her is a little thin. The Cap Police are responsible for teh safety of 535 Reps and Senators. If they can’t recognize them (and ask a security guard in a large building, they can recognize hundreds of people easily, and she’s been there for years), that would be a pretty damn big problem if there was an emergency and they had to use guesswork to separate civilians/potential terrorists from the US Congresspeople.

  165. Pat? so molly ivors thinks there are 51 states? I’m so glad I don’t teach any more 47+4=50???

  166. Mawm: I am laughing out loud over here!

  167. All Molly alluded to was that when Ron Paul pulls out it will then go to 47 state win for Obama.

  168. Upstate, yes. It was part of the RBC decision. Most people didn’t hear it, because of all of the crazy Clinton supporters yelling.

  169. I’m thinking his VP choice is going to be an Obamabot like Sebelius or Kerry (Uncle Ted will wish it?).

  170. Mawn: heh. Damn those crazy Clinton supporters.

  171. (Also to be perfectly frank, when a guy grabs you from behind, you’re going to react….I’d imagine more so if you’re a Congressperson in the Capitol and you don’t know who the hell’s laying hands on you.)

  172. gary: You asked me to name three but I gave you 4. Just mix them up a little. He probably will win Ariz.

  173. Did Molly count DC as a state?

  174. Ben several solid democratic states like California have a Anti-gay Marriage amendment on the ballot to appeal to the republican base….these measures tend to “get out” the republican vote.

    They have turned traditional democratic strongholds red enough to carry Blue states in 2000. May not happen in California -but will require alot of Senator Obama’s cash to seal ther deal. Money he at this time he and the DNC dont have.

    By the way Arizona (Senator McCains state) is the only state to not pass an amendment when it was place on the ballot.

    Fuzzybeargville

  175. WS: Kerry? now way…

  176. I will personally pledge allegiance to the united states of Obama the day he carries oklahoma, idaho, the dakotas, montana, texas, utah, west virginia, kentucky….well, that’s more than 3, but I could go on….

  177. Pat,

    Aug. 15th, Bus Safety Day

    Gomer Pyle, the only mechanic I know off the top of my head who might have a hydraulic jack to get the bus off of us. I guess there’s also Mr. Goodwrench, but he had to resign as NY Governor.

  178. We need to treat this like a bad relationship.

    1. It benefits you to be in a relationship with someone who loves you a little more than you love them.

    2. You have the most leverage in the relationship when the other party thinks you don’t care. (i.e. you wait a few days to return that call, you are busy on Saturday night.)

    When the likes of Taylor Marsh and the Human Rights campaign fund and Emily’s List give in to the dnc and obama they are proving they are the weaker one in the relationship.

    PUMAs have all the leverage now because we don’t care if Obama or the DNC ever calls.

  179. California is also home of the “Bradley Effect.” There is a lot of racial tension in that state.

  180. Edwards supposedly said no way. Who knows? My guess is that he will go with Sebelius (Catholic, female) or McGaskill (Catholic, female). Naturally with a female candidate I will rush out for my posters and bumper stickers as he would have played into my bitter female hands!

  181. ben carlson, on June 14th, 2008 at 10:05 pm Said:

    I’ve been thinking about this whole social issue/roe v. wade thing and what is a good way to respond to that guilt trip.

    I’ve always thought that a political party that has to threaten you to vote for them doesn’t deserve your vote or your respect.

  182. prolix: lololol

  183. Pat: a woman is a woman after all. Does it matter who?

  184. friday evening I was driving home from work and turned to right wing talk radio (a weird habit I have, not unlike Arabella monitoring certain websites). the guy whose show it is is local, very conservative, and extremely excitable. he screeches.

    so he was talking about something McCain said (I missed what exactly it was) and suddenly he was screeching something like this “McCain can’t assume he will get my vote simply because he has an R after his name. no, if he wants my vote, he’s gonna have to earn it. I own my vote and I refuse to fall into place because the party wants me to”

    whew! then the callers starting weighing in, saying stuff like “yeah, but what other choice do we have? Obama?”

    I actually laughed. I thought, substitute Obama for McCain, and D for R, and this could be the Confluence. except RD doesn’t screech.

  185. ben, I totally understand your analogy, and I agree with you, but i hope that is not how you approach your own relationships.
    I like the analogy of a business deal. The one with the power at the table is the one who can walk away from the deal.

  186. I am with you, NotThatStupid.

  187. Upstate,

    Amazingly, Kerry seems to be angling for the VP job. He refused to rule it out. I wonder if he imagines being the next Cheney–running the government while bamboozling the incompetent, inexperienced Prez?

  188. Pat,

    With McCaskill they would almost have one full Senate term between them. Although, Aunt Claire is loaded with cash from all the Bewitched residuals.

  189. Maybe now that R Kelly has been “acquitted” he may be in consideration. And nobody has a way with words quite like R Kelly.

  190. I’d love it if he picked Kerry. Perhaps, Kennedy has first dibs on a VP pick and he will choose a Massachusetts pol like Kerry. Kerry still wants to be President, but he should know he had his shot and he blew it.

  191. prolix,

    they almost have a full brain between them too….oops did that slip out??????

  192. I’ve been trying to stay awake to watch the odometer (or whatever it’s called on a blog) roll over to 1,000,000, but alas, ’tis taking longer than I thought.

    Have a good evening all.

  193. BB: Kerry cannot be that stupid. He will not be O’s VP. Somebody please tell him pronto or he will be disappointed….

  194. Gary, I think “woman with a brain stem” may have to be called in to complete the entire organ.

  195. If he picks Kerry, I can hear the campaign song,

    “You are the wind beneath my sail board.”

  196. Kerry gives him nothing. Kerry gives me nothing but that is beside the point. He has to pick someone from a state that promises votes. With Deval he may have a shot with MA so it is an assumption he goes for that candidate whose state may be in play. I’ll call Caroline Camelot to see where they are in the vetting.

  197. I thought he was going to ask mccain to be his veep

  198. Good night, Ohioana, maybe tomorrow.

  199. Gary,

    Being from the south, I know you meant that in the kindest way…

  200. The Hispanic vote in Ca. is questionable for ‘him’ . That is the only reason I can think of for Ca. to be in play if that is true ..

    Also – has anyone checked out this party ? – I haven’t .. I do not even know who I got it from .. someone here ?
    lol .. anyway..

    http://www.newamericanindependent.com/

  201. And what is that senator from Washington state the dot.commer what is her Senator Obama lovin’ name?

    Fuzzybeargville

  202. MAWM: Of course that’s how I approach relationships. They always want me more than I want them 🙂 That’s why it is so easy for me to walk away from the Democratic party. I don’t need them. I used to vote for them just because of social issues but that’s behind me now. I’m a free agent. I’m an Independent swing voter who will make up his mind after the vice presidential debate. Maybe I’ll get in a focus group. Oh…just took a Zogby online poll.

  203. Pat, are you suggesting Deval may be in his VP list? I just do not see it. Somebody from MO, maybe.

  204. Maria Cantwell…she was a Hillary superdelegate, no?

  205. Upstate: No, not on his list but he is his campaign manager co chair. He probably expects Deval to deliver MA. We are the most liberal state in the union so I really cannot see McCain carrying it. We have tons of colleges and universities here, Harvard being the most liberal bastion. The youth vote will come from them.

  206. “Great point / NotThatStupid”!
    I think Obama is about to “add his soon to be 10 y/o
    little girl ,you know where”?
    Today I heard he’s only agreed to “1” town-hall debate
    with McCain. It was proposed for July 4th & any other
    debates will happen in the FALL !
    Fox reported the McCain camp are saying he picked
    that day “for low viewing audience #’s” !
    ** Now on a separate issue there was a report of Michelle trying to “BUTTER-UP” seniors in Ohio.
    She talked about her DAUGHTER TURNING 10 years
    old ON….JULY 4th !!
    I don’t know about any of you; but when my kids turned
    “DOUBLE DIGITS” it was a REALLY BIG DEAL !!!
    HOW CAN THE DNC THINK I COULD VOTE FOR HIM!

  207. Put gay marriage on the ballot and all the rightwingnuts come out to vote and figure 10-25% of Hillacrats vote McCain or stay home and bingo game over in California for ObamaInc.

    remember Senator Obama only leads Senator McCain 48-52% in California- 15% of Hillacrat votes transfer to 5.2 % of the electorate there and the rightwingnutz are not going to be likely voters in the poles.

    That is the great unknown….

    Fuzzybeargville

  208. All right, I am yawning way too much over here.

    I will see you tomorrow.

    Hopefully we will have hit 1 Million by then and I will get the balloons I have been requesting for the last few months.

  209. Saw your answer Pat. Thanks for the clarification.

    Good night…and now I mean it 😉

  210. As creepy as voting for McCain is, it’s the only way Hillary will ever have another shot at the presidency. Obama has to lose so she can run again in 2012. If he wins, it’s 8 years and time to change back to Repubs. If he loses, she was right and only 4 years goes by. Go read FYI-Go read “What Hillary Really Wants” at Savage Politics.

  211. Sorry you are right I get her and Senator McKaskill confused sorrySenator Cantwell right she was for Hillary and she has her own fortune so she can stick with Hillary

    I am so wrong here hope senator Cantwell forgives me. Lighting getting closer where is Gov. Richardson?

    Fuzzybeargville

  212. There’s an Affirmative Action referendum in Colorado and several other states. It looks the Repubs are bringing their 2004 playbook into 2008 with a little twist.

    On another topic, I do like McCain’s chocolate and roses approach to wooing Clinton supporters rather than the “You’ll come back, You always do” Obama strategy.

  213. well it is late and Lighting getting closer….will hang in a little longer if I can…

    Fuzzybeargville

  214. I think Caroline will end up the VP candidate, Cheney-style.

    the fact that she’s not a politician will dovetail with the whole new style of politics thing.

    and the Kennedy name will resonate.

  215. Ben, I think that is why your Love is such a dangerous thing to give to someone, if they don’t really love you in the same way. Part of Love is surrender to the object of your love. If you hold back, the love will not grow. However, to surrender to someone who isn’t ready to surrender themselves just leaves you as a prisoner of war. I think that is what dating is for. It is the process of trusting someone and seeing if you could surrender to them. But I do believe at some point the two parties need to go over the cliff Thelma and Louise style. If any one of them can’t grab the other’s hand and put the pedal to the floorboard, maybe it is time to move on and look for someone else. Playing power games with people whom we are supposed to love is a waste of our time on this earth.

  216. It is so muggy here and they keep promising rain. I hate this muggy weather! Can’t get comfortable and I am all read out. TV has nothing and I am not that sleepy. I could turn on the a/c but am resisting. So much for me.

  217. I think he will win Pakistan, Iran, and Syria.

  218. am I thema or louise?

  219. WS-
    Actually,The Obamabot approach is “we won get over it and get to the back of our bus…oh and you better smile like you enjoy the ride or the girl in the pantsuit get it…..(using hand to mimmic a gun going off)”

    Fuzzybeargville

  220. I’ve told you before. You are louise, damnit!

  221. one thing to keep in mind – if Bob Barr is the libertarian candidate, that will seriously split the republican vote (I learned this listening to right wing talk radio). there are many conservatives who will vote for him over McCain. this is something worth paying attention to if you’re considering a McCain vote. a seriously split republican party could render your protest vote impotent.

  222. sorry …”should be the girl in the pantsuit gets it …..” (using hand to mimmic a gun going off)

    fuzzybeargville

  223. Bonita: lol

    gary, Mawm: Settle down! Don’t make me come in there!

  224. Barr is polling anemically in every state even in his home state of Georgia. I don’t know what they do to Repub psyche but they always fall in line.

  225. Bob Barr will get fewer votes than the communist party candidate…..he has no support on the right wing thatis just ditto head wishfull thinking

    fuzzybeargville

  226. Varvel, either way, McCain works for votes like a regular politician while Obama expects voters to come to him. Its very weird.

  227. I took a quick trip around the NEWZ and apparently Clinton supporters are going to come around to Obama. McCain’s campaign is in shambles and most people don’t know McCain’s stand on abortion. Also, Obama is doing quite well because Bush never had more than a 4 point lead over Kerry through the 2004 campaign.

  228. Of course could be an invasion of the body snatchers take over?

    fuzzybeargville

  229. hey Thelma….I mean Mawm, I don’t think Cynthia McKinney is such a nutjob. she has been royally smeared ever since she questioned the Bush admin’s possible prior knowledge/possible complicity in the events of 9-11. I do not think that’s crazy. like with any crime, look first at who benefitted the most from it.

    ok, now I’ve outed myself as a crazed 9-11 truther.

    but I like Cynthia a lot. I think she’s brilliant and very brave.

  230. The Repubs will stick together this year. They may have had a slight split with Hillary but I don’t see it with Obama. He won’t siphon off much from them.

    His pandering to the Religious Right won’t work. The will still hear Rev Wright barking in the background.

  231. ok…kiki has become tiresome…time to spam her.

  232. I remember Bush having a 13 point lead over Kerry right after the Repub convention.

  233. sorry no dinner bell-fuzzybear no come-he has his Chewbacca figure to keep up….Obama arugulla and Latte diet would kill the Fuzzybear. WS I agree with you on that-maybe Senator Obama drank some of his own kool aid by mistake?

    fuzzybeargville

  234. ben, are you serious?

  235. WS…i was just giving the lowlights from a F. Rich column in NYT.

    Has anyone else noticed this pattern: Ted Kennedy, Tim Russert, Iowa.

  236. I think he was just kidding, kiki.

    Lets bash Obama some more!

  237. Oh, please pick Kerry. Then we can have a tandem bike pic with helmets.

  238. Ben-
    Spam now there is something that could be on the Fuzzybear diet-mmmm-spam

    let kiki stay I like conspiracy tyoes and who knows they may be right this time

    fuzzybeargville

  239. kiki, I have to admit. The more the MSM smears somebody these day, the more I want to find out what they were saying. I don’t trust the press to give me any kind of accurate information, so maybe she isn’t nuts, but I just cannot bring myself to believe the USA had anything to do with 9/11. From everything I have seen, I believe the Bush administration was just asleep at the wheel, or busy clearing brush at the time.

    As far as Katrina, It is just the height of lunacy to me to believe the US bombed the levies. McKinney thinks they did. Do you?

  240. cynthia mckinney: tiresome crazy lady.

  241. And Obama and Kerry could have windsurfing competition on Lake Michigan. Last one to the Whole Foods is a rotten egg!

  242. Okay, this is how sad my life is — I’m actually watching Janice Dickinson and Omarosa having a knock down drag out neck snapping fight on TV Guide channel. I’m hoping Jose Canseco shoots them up with steriods for a real WWE cage match.

  243. Conspiracy theory: Kennedy, Russert, Iowa flooding.

    Talk amongst yourselves

  244. The republican ATM machine has not even come on line for Senator McCain yet and hey he has battled back from campaign bankruptcy to his party nom….

    Senator Obama will not convince anyone with his “I take no money from the Oil companies” business…. the general election people know tha sthick by now

    He will unfortunately lose in November.

    Fuzzybeargville

  245. The TV Guide Channel!!!

  246. LOL — I’m awaiting the infomercials.

  247. Whole Foods? we have Fresh Market in Florida…oh and starbucks and indoor plumbing too. Fuzzybear prefers innertubing down the river to windsurfing on the lake.

    fuzzybeargville

  248. I don’t know guys. My sense for a while has been that Obama is unelectable, but then again, it also tells me he’s the Dems’ George W Bush. Thing is back in 2000 and 2004, if I’m not mistaken Bush’s people actually went out there and found new voters and got them to the polls – nobody thought it’d happen – but the evangelicals showed up for him. Is Obama banking on finding new voters, who are they, in which states, what is the strategy? Something’s going on and I haven’t had the energy to go read Obama sites to know much about it, but all the intense voter registration drives still ongoing.. I wonder. They’re not stupid. Arrogant, but not stupid.

  249. Great little video of Tweety on No Quarter…just him being the ass he usually is but this was to an O supporter. It’s apparently being enjoyed by Rs. You know they are just waiting to unleash the arsenal on him. They are smart to wait, wait, wait…

  250. I am so bored I checked out my hometown newspaper which is usually dull, dull, dull. But a headline grabbed my attention.

    “Local Police Trying to Determine Why Man Who Fell to His Death From a Bridge Has Died”. Could it possibly be that the bridge he fell from was a dry bridge? Do I get a reward if I phone this theory in?

  251. TV Guide channel-so sorry Pat had to turn on the A/C I can feel Mother Earth Dying all around Me….Pat Check out Bravo Kathy Griffins fouth season has started and looks good-

    fuzzybeargville

  252. Dar1a:

    they are definitely not stupid, and they are running a Bush style campaign. It’s called winning at any cost. And I think that’s appealing to the DNC. They’ve been emasculated so many times by Republicans that they want a campaign that can be as ruthless and good at consolidating power and raising money as Shrub. This election is going to be just crazy. I would just keep noting that neither Obama or McCain is over 50% in polls. We are still a divided country.

  253. look, I’m not a crazy person. I used to hang out at a 9-11 truther website, and I left forever because I did think they were crazy.

    that said, I believe the Bush admin desperately wanted to go to war with Iraq, and knew it was going to be a hard sell. 9-11 provided them with an excuse. that’s all. I’m certainly not saying they caused it, but I do believe they ignored warnings. and on 9-12 they were all about tying Iraq to the attack.

    that’s all. and then they lied and lied, and Cynthia called them on it, and the attack dogs were released.

    I also happen to believe N.O. was happy to get rid of the ninth ward residents. I never even heard the theory that the levees were bombed! I don’t think that. I do think they weren’t maintained. everybody knew they couldn’t withstand a certain category hurricane. does McKinney really say they were bombed? if so, I have a problem with that.

    god, Ben wants me banned! the only other people who ever did that were freepers (I was a little proud of that, I’ll admit).

    I’ll shut up now. y’all are great and the last thing I want to do is give this place a bad name.

  254. Pat you are so funny I am going to ask they let you open for Margaret Cho

  255. kiki, I wasn’t trying to run you off.

  256. michael: I caught it this week. I love Kathy Griffin! Her snarks are right up my alley. She is too funny!!

  257. Seriously, Pat and Fuzzy should do stand up.

  258. We registered a lot of people in 2004 too. With Bush, he had a lot of growth opportunity with the evangelicals. With Obama, his main constituencies are African Americans and the young but they vote Democrat in big numbers already (African Americans more so and the young aren’t exactly reliable voters – would they still think he’s cool in the GE?).

    But he could go after the disaffected/not usual voters if he still has the same pull he had earlier in the year. I don’t know if they’ll go to him because of what’s already come and from upcoming Repub attacks.

  259. and before I disappear, I know y’all in MA aren’t thrilled with your governor, but I was awfully proud of him as regards his daughter. he might be a lame governor but he’s a good dad!

  260. Kiki please as long as you do not support Senator Obama and think Hillay Clinton got a bad rap “from day One…” you are one of us

    Kookie is ok for the Fuzzybear

    fuzzybeargville

  261. kiki: I so agree! His embrace of his daughter says more about him than anything else. His daughter should be equally proud which I am sure she is. I will never snark on Deval again.

  262. Chill out Kiki. I have no influence on this blog. I was just joking around. And the idea that New Orleans wanted to get rid of the 9th ward residents is truly out there. Have you ever been to New Orleans? I’ve been there at least 7 times. It is a completely segregated city. It’s totally the haves and have nots. The HAVES loved the 9th ward because it was on the other side of town and it was a place for all their staff to live. Those were the people who worked in the hotels and restaurants. New Orleans enjoyed it’s dysfunction. Actually, it’s the residents of the lower 9th who may have benefited because they were able to start a new life some place out of that cycle of poverty, bad schools, welfare, and low paying service jobs.

  263. Pat, you will snark on Deval again. That’s ok.

    I’m proud of him too.

    Guys, Alegre ain’t giving up yet:

    http://alegrescorner.soapblox.net/frontPage.do

  264. Pat I discribe my self as Chewbacca with an attitude you are just plain smart and funny maybe they will let us open up for Hillary Clinton2012 to warm up the crowds….

    fuzzybeargville

    This could be a fuzzybear dream come true….

  265. I love Alegre

  266. if you look at real clear politics, in the “swing state” polls McCain is the only one who reaches 48% and that is in Florida. however, i think there are more states in play than that.

  267. WS, she just started her own site, and think she’d appreciate visits there.

  268. I love Alegre! She held on right to the end on MyDD. Her postings were always insightful and she took a lot of flack from Obama supporters who would swarm all over like pirhanas.

    I am glad to see her back.

  269. Pat Kiki and Been and Mel,

    I know my mother (the good catholic she is) still struggles everyday with the fact she has a gay son whom she loves very much and who loves her back.

    Kudos to the Gov. Deval – He will come around to our side eventually and let us learn from the Obamabots when they come home we should be gracious to them and only tell them I told you so one time.

    fuzzybeargville

  270. michael: I am afraid I would enter the convention hall armed with a flamethrower.

  271. BostonB- I don’t post too often, but read ALL the comments with every post. Don’t sell yourself short. I love your comments and laugh out loud when I read your witty well written comments…

  272. I didnt mean at the convention this year its open season on this dog that wont hunt-I am talking 2012 when you and I Open for Hillary Clinton 2012….I’ll only be 50 and think I still hold my own.

    fuzzybeargville

  273. I was really happy that Deval Patrick marched with his daughter as well. Was it on this site that someone asked, would Obama march? Hillary did as First Lady and always does in NYC..

    a-ha – here it is, Hillbuzz is keeping an Obama Chicago Gay Pride Parade Watch.

    DC’s literally got rained on pretty bad this year..! I was out running errands when it was going on, but when I got back into the city still seems that everyone is having a great time despite the weather. I feel bad, some friends asked me to meet up with them and I didn’t realize it was today until I was way out in the suburbs. 😦

  274. michael: I am a Catholic mother. I even taught 1st grade CCD for 5 years. (I wonder how many of those kids still have their faith after having me a for a teacher?) And I do not agree with many of their teachings.

  275. jeez, sorry y’all I take so long thinking through what I’m typing that by the time I post there are 10 comments in between & it’s completely out of place 🙂

  276. michael: By 2012 I may have to pack Depends along with my luggage. Don’t wait for me. I may not be able to find Denver on the map by then!

  277. (clearing throat) well, back to the veep, how about this for outside the Starbuck’s coffee holder — Maria Shriver.

  278. Hey Pat Ageism is not in my book-Maybe the campaign will foot the bill for our loyalty over the years.

    CCD boy does that bring back memories-I have many good decent Priest advisors who have helped me with my comming to terms with my catholic-gay self-Lets just say I have the dignity to be who I am.
    I can find Denver or where ever they send us I am one of those rare male who doesnt mind stoping and asking for directions

    Fuzzybeargville

  279. Veep lets leave the Veep selection to the powers that care whom ever Senator Obama picks you can be sure he will not be Puma Proud-

    Fuzzybeargville

  280. Caroline Kennedy and Maria Shriver compund Obama’s elitism problem, but I assume you are kidding.

  281. prolix: You sound as if you have already ruled out Omarosa.

  282. LOL — she would put Cheney to shame.

  283. I not only taught CCD but I was elected president of the Ladies Guild for two years running. The night I was inducted I had my head in the potatoes because I had been at the bar and two salesman insisted on buying Manhattans in celebration. It was quite a sight.

  284. Omarosa and michelle Obama….twins seperated by birth?
    Fuzzybeargville

  285. sorry seperated at birth-man I am so losing it….
    Fuzzybeargville

  286. Hey alcohol is what seperates the catholics from the baptists-oh and dancing

    Fuzzybeargville

  287. Good night y’all!

  288. Me too. Good night.

  289. Night wonderful PUMAranians.

  290. good night all see you in the morning sweet dreams to all you know what mine are-

    Fuzzybeargville

  291. Some thoughts on the McCain question. For many of us it will not matter, the state will comfortably go for McCain or Obama.

    Someone told me the other day, well as least (Obama) he’s not as bad as McCain. The question is not which candidate is better, but which one is more likely to get their ideas through congress. In a Democratic congress McCain’s privatization will be DOA, whereas Obama’s soft privatization will make it through. McCain’s (pro life) nominations will be bitterly fought, Obama’s wishy washy nominees will sail through. Best of all with McCain the Democratic majority will stay put and solidify, with Obama it will be lost in 2010.

    The argument for McCain is not that he is better on this or that issue than Obama, but that the Democrats will be a stronger opposition to brain dead policies. In short, the Democratic congress will be better for the American people with a McCain rather than an Obama.

  292. Some thoughts on the McCain question. For many of us it will not matter, the state will comfortably go for McCain or Obama.

    Someone told me the other day, well as least (Obama) he’s not as bad as McCain. The question is not which candidate is better, but which one is more likely to get their ideas through congress. In a Democratic congress McCain’s privatization will be DOA, whereas Obama’s soft privatization will make it through. McCain’s (pro life) nominations will be bitterly fought, Obama’s wishy washy nominees will sail through. Best of all with McCain the Democratic majority will stay put and solidify, with Obama it will be lost in 2010.

    The argument for McCain is not that he is better on this or that issue than Obama, but that the Democrats will be a stronger opposition to brain dead policies. In short, the Democratic congress will be better for the American people with a McCain rather than an Obama.

  293. theo, are you even a democrat? you sound like a republican.

    but then, so does obama, mostly.

  294. theo go to the new thread an post your tripe-see what happens

    Fuzzybeargville

  295. […] by pocochina on June 15, 2008 As Riverdaughter pointed out so clearly, the guilt end of the bullying corralling convincing Clinton supporters into […]

  296. Didn’t Cynthia McKinney once accuse Al Gore of having a “Negro problem” – that he was not comfortable with African-Americans? I believe this was during the 2000 presidential campaign.

    Count me in as one who will not be voting for Obama in November. Yeah, I know about the Supreme Court, blah blah blah, but at some point, people need to be told that their behavior was unacceptable and not voting for Obama is my way of telling the Obama supporters in the media and on the blogs and in the campaign that their behavior was not acceptable.

  297. […] The Ghost of Violet Socks and Cold-blooded Pragmatism [image]The Ghost of Violet Socks at the Reclusive Leftist lays out a very persuasive argument for not supporting Obama […] […]

  298. ea-hail fellow Friedanist!!

  299. For those who wish to stay together in a long term commitment to the ideals and rinciples that Hillary Clinton has spent a lifetime promoting, http://Together4Us.com offers access for activists, funders, students, policy-makers and ordinary people to come together in support of each other and their goals for America. Please come to our website and join, use the code below to put our linked logo on your website and distribute our message and this code to all your network. Spread the word. We will be happy to put up a reciprocal link, your own co-branded web page on our site, or your own blog.

    Thanks so much,
    Gretchen Glasscock,
    Together4Us

  300. […] yesterday who singled out the above passage and quickly distanced themselves from the anger.  I’ve even been guilty of doing it myself.  That is not to say that cold-blooded pragmatism is not necessary for clearing our heads and […]

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