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Friday: Free For All

State of the race: CNN has a new poll with Obama up a measley 5% over McCain at 48% to McCain’s 43%. 9% are unsure. Unsure of what?

Hmmm, maybe here is a hint: McCain targets message to Clinton backers. “Mm-wha, Mm-wha, oh, mon cherie, we will make beyootiful museeck together! Have some chocolates and flowers.” Ok, I still think that friends don’t let friends vote Republican but I’m not averse to a little flirtation. Go ahead, make The Precious jealous, a little nervous. Not even all of those unsure voters need to sidle into McCain’s column to upset Obama. Just a majority of them will do.

Paul Krugman tells us about the perils of deregulation in Bad Cow Disease. I guess you never realize how important the FDA is until you get a bad tomato. Or realize that the side effect you got from the last drug you took was noted by doctors over the past couple years but that the FDA didn’t have the resources to sort through the adverse drug reaction reports and enter them into a database.

Ladies and Gents, I know that we’re all getting a little testy this week. It’s maddening when the country wants the one candidate it can’t have. This political stuff would be so much easier if the parties would just get out of the way. But let’s not slip into rumormongering or character assassination. You may loathe Obama with evry fiber of your being but don’t spread rumors about him being a Muslim, not that there’s anything wrong with that. Besides, I have it on good authority from my contacts in the evangelical movement that he’s the anti-Christ. So, get it right.

And it’s not right to pick on his wife either or wish the same plague of sexist locusts on her as descended on Clinton. Turnabout may be fair play but that kind of karma never goes away.

And let us not jump to conclusions that Obama is a corrupt Chicago politician, even if there is mounting circumstantial evidence that suggests that he is. Without proof, we would just be dragging his name through the mud and that would be wrong.

Let’s keep it clean, people. Make Hillary proud of you. Repeat allegations only when you have solid evidence to back them up.

So, what’s up?

277 Responses

  1. Good morning, RD

    Thanks for the reminder. We must stay focused – no time for distractions.

    We must stay positive, too. Look at this site. This weekend it will hit 1 Million hits. I remember the start of the k*s strike. Brave people like RD set up shop elsewhere, not expecting anybody would come to visit.

    I am a clinically depressed pessimist, but I choose to be contrarian about it. I can’t afford the luxury of a negative thought.

    GO PUMA!

  2. I agree, RD. I’ve been avoiding the threads lately because too many people here, most of them new, are becoming quite counterproductive with their pettiness and foolishness (Let the damn “whitey” faux tape, go! It’s ridiculous!). We don’t need this nonsense. When it comes to legitimate points of criticism, Obama provides his opponents with an embarrassment of riches.

    As far as what’s up: It’s finally hitting me that Clinton has given up any hint of a floor fight for the nomination. I didn’t trust the media to tell me the truth but after hearing that call of hers on delegates, I’m convinced: we’re Cheneyed. Jesus! I might have to take that European job offer after all.

  3. Supposedly McCain will post a teleconference type town meeting (to be held tomorrow for Clinton supporters) on his website. That could be interesting.

  4. Edit: I meant that call from her camp.

  5. re: rumor-mongering…

    What I found most disturbing about the Obama “fight-the-smear” site was its intellectual dishonesty. No mention was made of the fact that in the Islamic world the son of a Muslim is considered a Muslim (just as among Jewish people, the child of a Jewish mother is automatically considered Jewish). Nor was there any mention of Obama having his religion listed as “Muslim” at his Indonesian school.

    Instead of explaining why the rumors exist (and I personally object to the characterization of calling someone a Muslim a “smear”) , and laying out all the facts, the Obama site treats these stories as if they had no basis whatsoever.

    I have no idea what Obama’s religious convictions are — he may call himself a Christian, but I don’t consider the anti-white racism that is implicit in “black liberation theology” any more “Christian” than I do the stuff that is spewed by right-wing “Christian” hatemongers.

    Given that Obama’s youth was spent in an Islamic culture where “Allah” was just as much of a given in the culture as “God” is in ours, the idea that he sees “God’ the same way that those of us who went to Sunday School each week is rather ridiculous.

    Does this mean he is a muslim? Probably not. But it doesn’t make him a Christian either.

  6. btw, I have no idea how that smilie wound up in the post above…

  7. Good morning.

    I would like to recommend the sites that are raising money to pay off Hillary’s debt. It would be a wonderful thing if we could do that for her.

    Or go to her site and donate there. That money goes to her and only to her.

  8. Good Morning Riverdaughter. I agree too that our comments need to stay away from rumormongoring, if for no other reason than it gives away our power. The more far out our rantings become, the less credibility we have as a counter-force. Saw on ABC this morning that Obama has started a new website geared towards stopping smears. He apparently is very concerned that people are “picking on” his wife and not refuting Muslim allegations strongly enough.

    Is there any more solid information about the Dem Convention? And what do you mean Davidson about the Clinton call to her delegates?

    And Bostonboomer, please don’t send Dean back to Vermont. We already have Leahy here and that’s enough for our little state to handle.

  9. Dean can go to Chicago with the rest of the power grab. What’s that all about, anyway?

  10. I think that Obama is such a narcissist that he has to control everything that gets said about him. It will be his undoing. There may be something innocuous on his birth certificate that Obama doesn’t like. (Maybe he was a really fat baby.) He has a definite way he wants to be portrayed, down to minute details. The problem is, he keeps changing his story.

    Just tell the truth, Obama. So much easier.

    Plus, that “anti smear site” looks amateurish. The language is defensive and angry. Obama and his followers need to control his image only makes me suspicious.

    GO PUMA

  11. @Marsha: Her camp has told her delegates to do everything in their power to support Obama and make sure he’s elected in November. Although she hasn’t technically released her delegates, it’s a foregone conclusion that she won’t dare fight for the nomination in Denver.

  12. Regarding the 9% undecided, if I were polled I would be undecided. I’m definitely not voting for Obama, but I’m wavering between voting for McCain and staying home. I wonder how many of those polled are in the same boat I am.

    Re: the McCain phone call: I received an e-mail and I’m tempted to sign up. But my husband will kill me if I start getting calls from McCain! He’s already vowed to kick anyone out of the family (i.e., me and our son) for voting for McCain.

  13. Dear stilllife, Please don’t stay home. The alternative is to skip over the Presidential race and vote downballot.

  14. I have voted downticket Republican in the past — my state had some pretty good Republican officeholders back before crazy Newt took over. Actrually, some of them were first class public servants. So I am not allergic to voting R as I understand some are.

  15. I was listening to Rush (Yes, I know) and he said something I agreed with: this election will be a referendum on Obama. Just as Obama and the media made sure the Democratic primary was a referendum on HRC as a misogynistic caricature (Even then, it took the RBC and the DNC to steal the nomination from her), the GE will be all about whether or not Americans trust Obama.

    I know this: there are plenty of Republicans who despise McCain but honestly fear Obama enough to vote against Obama by voting McCain.

    @stilllife: Make sure to vote downticket Democrat.

  16. The NYT story on sexism was written to try to head off similar treatment aimed at Michelle. They opened the door to unacceptable behavior, now they want to close it. The story really stood out when it mentioned a boycott of MSNBC and CNN. Everyone has boycotted on their own so ratings and revenue must be effected. The free for all has just started. Yippee!

  17. The NYT has discovered sexism now? What convenient timing.

  18. My vote for McCain is not a vote FOR McCain. It is a vote for divided government. I believe we need checks and balances this cycle. The Republicans have shown what horrors complete control over the executive and legislative branches of our government can bring. I believe a President Obama with a Democratic congress would be a disaster for this country. He has shown the most authoritarian tendencies. Give me a moderate Republican like McCain with a Democratic congress and only let the important legislation pass.

  19. Davidson and Chatblu, I will have to check out who (and what) is on the ballot this November. I’ve been so focused on the Presidential race that I haven’t been paying attention to local races. I live in New York City so Dems are virtually a shoo-in regardless.

  20. TalkLeft June 13, 2008 12:41 AM
    Obama’s New Smear Debunking Website

    Shannon

    the Rezko issue was closed when he gave that interview to the editorial board a couple months age that answered the questions that he had previousl answered incorrectly. The republicans have thousands of pages of research in hand regarding anything to do with Obama in Chicago. Maybe they’re holding their fire until the attacks start. I’m no political operative — what do I know?

    Answer from Josey:

    previously answered incorrectly?!? Obama LIED about his relationship with Rezko! Throughout 2007, Obama claimed he “barely knew the man” while he refused to meet with Chicago reporters.
    In March, as the Wright tapes were reaching epic soundbites, Obama finally slithered into a interview with the reporters – and we learned Rezko was on Obama’s 2004 Senate campaign Finance committee, among other things.

    Note – because Obama started the antismear website, Jeralyn has allowed limited discussion of Obama smears (previously banned) to have a thread.

  21. The NY Times can go to HELL! They have shown themselves to be the #1 propagandists.

    Don’t forget they were instrumental in getting Democrats to support the war at the beginning. Remember Judith Miller and her relationship to Libby?

  22. Taylor Marsh’s site hacked by the following Obamabot:

    HACKED 1923turk_turkishwarriorr

    If you click on the link to her site, you wil be diverted to this Obama-droid’s message that he hacked it. Just FYI.

    I guess this is what Obama means when he says he intends to run an internet “war room” huh? He’s going to hack sites of Clinton supporters. Nice. Real Nice.

  23. Mawm, that is how I feel exactly.

  24. I am so happy to have found this site! It feels like “coming home.”

    chatblu: Probably, that’s what I’ll do: skip the presidential election and vote downballot. Still, certainly had expected to be voting for Senator Clinton, come November… Can absolutely NOT vote for junior, ‘tho.

    -MS

  25. @stilllife: You’re right. I’ve decided to not support Obamacrats either by abstaining from those individuals. Luckily for me, most of my local Democrats stuck by Clinton until the end (Yes, many of them finally switched in June but it’s forgivable to me).

  26. Okay, if anyone has access just delete my question above

  27. (Mawm: my comment was in response to your’s about checks and balances.)

  28. Mawm, yes, divided government looks good when you don’t trust the president.

  29. Taylor Marshsticks out her neck and supports Obama candidacy in the face of vocal disagreement from her regulars. And this is the thanks she gets from Obamaland?

    Ridiculous.

  30. Looking for some help. Just tried to get on Taylor Marsh, but site was hacked. Someone called turkish warrior with Islamic symbols. I also left this message at PUMA. Trying to find out if it is site, or just me. And if there is any way to get thru.

    Thanks.

  31. Now that the Obama campaign has completed its takeover of the DNC, it is more important than ever that we support our own choices of downticket Dems, the kinds that will further our Democratic values via ACTBLUE. I just linked through to a couple from Hullaballoo. Maybe we should create an ACTBLUE fundraising page…any thoughts?
    One of mine would be

    Debbie Cook
    CA-46 (Map)

    “As the mayor of Huntington Beach and a long time member of the City Council, Debbie is used to dealing with real people’s real problems. She’s running against one of Congress’ silliest clowns, Dana Rohrabacher, not just another Bush rubber stamp, but an odd duck who enjoyed dressing up like a Taliban so much that he skipped off to Afghanistan, met Osama bin-Laden and did a bunch of photo-ops with muhajadeen. I think Orange County deserves better.”

    Rohrabacher is one of the more outrageous globalwarming deniers in the House. I might put together a climate legislation Act Blue page. If you want to create one: here:

    http://blog.actblue.com/

    as chatblu says, we must vote downticket to get some new Dems in office, and good ones. We should work on getting good people into both houses.

  32. Yo’ RD. Nice post although a tad confusing – play fair but be aware, is that the message? (I kinda like that for a bumper sticker).

    Anywho, what’s up with Friday Fast? Has that fallen by the wayside? I thought we might still be doing it since the dollars that flow to HRC are potential GE dollars, should she get back into the race, or senate campaign dollars.

  33. I completely agree that we shouldn’t go spreading rumors. But the links to Chicago corruption aren’t rumor. How many people buy houses with known slumlords?

  34. I need more specific specific guidance on what the Confluence is going to consider “rumormongering.” I thought there was evidence of Obama’s corruption in Chicago. At least I consider it corruption that he helped Rezko get government grants and helped Blagovich get control of the health and education boards. I also consider it fair game to talk about articles in Chicago newspapers about Fitzgerald’s efforts to get Rezko to talk.

    As for Michelle Obama, I don’t like to see sexist attacks on her either, but since she worked for the Daley machine and her father did so before her, and since she worked for a hospital that benefitted when Obama got into the Senate (and her salary jumped up dramatically after that), I don’t see why she should be off limits.

    I don’t want to offend anyone, so I’m going to avoid any criticism of Obama at all for the time being until RD can explain the guidelines.

  35. Arabelle, I agree the anti-smear site does look childish. To me, it has the same tone most of this campaign has had, entitlement. I’m sick of feeling like Obama should get special treatment – he doesn’t.

  36. Hacking of sites that still make sense is no surprise to me. Yesterday my ‘puter kept locking up when I’d come here. Finally had to google and find an old page and change the URL to 6/12 so I could read stuff. It didn’t happen on google or TLC or my school site so…. It was OK by the end of the night though.

  37. bostonboomer: Riverdaughter wrote, “Repeat allegations only when you have solid evidence to back them up.” I think Evelyn Pringle’s series of articles (despite its tantalizing but ultimately unfulfilling title) qualifies as evidence for Obama’s involvement in the hospital board scheme. No slander there.

  38. jules,

    I wouldn’t know. I haven’t read the Pringle articles. I don’t knwo if RD considers those evidence. If you do, then maybe I’ll spend some time reading them. As I said, I’m going to avoid all criticism of the Obamas for now. I was actually planning to do that anyway, because I felt personally attacked last night, and when I didn’t get any response to my questions about the attacks, I decided to dummy up for now.

  39. Don’t yall go and get soft on me now. As long as the focus is on logic and truth anything can, and should, be said. Anyone running for president deserves the greatest of scrutinity, particularly one with such a short record. As a matter of fact, if Barry gets the proper vetting he should have recieved in the primary and survives and handles it well; then he may just prove himself to those of us who have tremendous doubts about him.

  40. Davidson,

    Maybe you can help me. What do you see as legitimate criticisms of Obama? I’d appreciate your opinion. Keep in mind that I have never push the tape rumor or muslim rumor. But I have done a lot of reading of Chicago newspapers, going back a ways, and I have drawn what I think are logical conclusions.

  41. The “fight the smear” site is a useful tool for Obama. It channels the hate. With Hillary lying low, the Obamabots need another venue.

    Haka is at new levels of intensity. I’m keeping a cool head and staying rational. This is going to take a long time to play out. Time is on our side – yes it is.

    Puma – Strong, yet graceful in repose.

  42. Obama’s books actually reveal a lot about him. They are not always truthful (he claimed a life altering moment occurred when he read a Life Magazine story about a black man trying to tear off his skin–no such article anywhere, according to the ChiTrib) but they do reveal a profound desire to bond with his African roots. There is nothing wrong with this per se. But sometimes the wording, when placed in context with other things he has said, seems racialized, not ethnic. He refers to a white sheriff as a “cracker,” and coupled with remarks during the election such as “typical white person” and his poking fun at working class whites in PA, you get a picture of a man who doesn’t like white people very much. At the same time, he obviously works well with many white men, and not just Rezko, Ayers, et al, but Kennedy, Kerry, his Harvard law profs, et al. My feeling when I read the books is that this guy was completely narcissistic. The “refreshing honesty” of revealing that he did cocaine didn’t feel that way to me. It read like wanting everyone to like him–it makes him cool with people who find that kind of thing cool (I don’t) but then he rejected it, which makes him cool with people who find overcoming addiction or bad habits redemptive. There is a messianic subtext, at the same time, I don’t know if he really expected to get this far.

    Narcissism is evil because the person engaging in that behavior does understand the difference between right and wrong and is not behaving under a compulsion. Rather, they are able to choose how to behave knowing the consequences. I think that is what upset me the most about Obama “scratching his nose” with his F-you finger in NC after the PA primary, while he was talking about Hillary. It is such a narcissistic way to behave. Deliberate but deniable.

  43. Davidson,

    What was the call from Clinton’s camp. I guess I missed that. Do you have a link?

  44. RD, I like your style. You keep things on point and focus us without scolding us, which I appreciate. I’m getting short-tempered with blogs that scold me.

  45. Can we still call him ‘Barry’…or is that hate-mongering…

  46. Barak Obama reminds me of Ted Bundy. Not that he’s a serial killer – but he has the same compulsions for controlling every aspect of how people perceive him. And the same capacity to deny and lie to himself.

  47. Davidson @ 8:54 a.m.:

    “it’s a foregone conclusion that she won’t dare fight for the nomination in Denver.”

    Do we have a statement from her campaign on this, or are we assuming this?

  48. I think the rumor mongoring simply dilutes any Obama opposition. There are enough facts on the ground to work with though the Obamatrons smear any and all dissent. Frankly, I do not want to join them in the hate fest.

    There’s a lot of real stuff to be worried about. The voter registration drive in Louisiana [headed by a Muslim group] that’s flooding government offices with bogus applications; this sudden need to move the DNC’s election headquarters to Chicago-machine land; the anti-smear program that should be retitled the anti-First Amendment campaign . . . and the list goes on ad infinitum.

    I think the Democratic Party has sold its bloody soul. I won’t be joining them. With every Obamatron post and screed I read, I become more convinced that this movement or cult or whatever it is has to be stopped.

    And so, I’ll do the unthinkable. I’ll vote McCain. I’m an American before I’m a party member. And I’m convinced Obama is a manufactured product, pieced together by David Axelrod and his crew who don’t give a hoot whether the man is ready or even capable.

    Makes me heartsick just thinking about it!

    PUMApac.org

  49. jules, yes I read the Pringle articles, and I believe there is enough smoke to call it fire.

    I suggest everyone read the Pringle articles, curtain time for Obama. Here is a link to a copy of it. It was on Op/Ed news. http://www.countercurrents.org/pringle150508.htm
    It takes awhile to get through, with a lot of names and dates, but it is eye opening to how corrupt Chicago politics is.

    What I keep going back to is this. We now know that Rezko was convicted for among other things, his part in engineering kick backs from companies wanting to build hospitals in Chicago. Just one of many schemes in what Fitzgerald calls “Operation Board Games”. The schemes were all about stacking the boards with cronies. We also know that Obama was the one that introduced legislation to cut the number of people on the board that approved new Hospitals from 15 to 7. Why did he do that if he were not part of the scheme to stack it with cronies? At the minimum, he unknowingly performed a service for the guilty parties. What was his impetus to change the number of board members. Why would he do it? He either was playing or got played. The fact that he has stonewalled any efforts to get to the bottom of it leads me to believe he knew what was going on from the start.

  50. @BB: I don’t have the link to the call but here’s the next best thing. She wants them to vote for Obama at the convention.

  51. I will throw this pov into the mix as people are deciding how to go forward in this presidential election year.

    Perhaps folks are familiar with “The Prisoner’s Dilemma” from game theory? From what I recall, the best strategy is as follows: 1) first move = co-operation, 2) subsequent moves = the previous move of the other prisoner.

    This strategy ultimately leads to the greatest success for the prisoner-player, i.e., minimization of incarceration time.

    In my mind, the co-operation phase occurred earlier this year, allowing Obama time and opportunity to rebut and condemn the nastiness from his campaign. Now? Don’t dish it if you can’t take it.

  52. Peggy Sue – Well said.

  53. But Ambinder also says this:

    “A Clinton spokesman said that Clinton is not technically releasing her delegates — doing so would cause many of them to be dropped from the slate — “

  54. Kim,

    I have Dreams of My Father, but I’ve only read some sections of it so far. I can tell you that Obama did write about his anger at Whites, and frankly I have no problem with that. I think it would be normal for him to be confused about his identity because he looked so different from the people who surrounded him in his early life. He made a serious and conscious effort to develop a black identity by moving to Chicago and working in the black community. He has written about this extensively, so I don’t think I’m rumormongering.

    As for this quote: From Audacity of Hope: ‘I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.

    I have read The Audacity of Hope quite carefully, and I have not been able to find that quote. I could be wrong, but I when I first saw that list of quotes, I was suspicious and looked for it. I don’t think that is in the book. No one I’ve asked has ever been able to provide page numbers for any of those quotes. If anyone does have page numbers I will be glad to look them up in the books and report back.

  55. @Plural: The rest of the sentence notes how Bradley and Dean didn’t release their delegates either—until the convention.

  56. Davidson,

    I think Armbinder is wrong. Have you read Heidi Li’s report of a conference call she participated in? If this is true, then I will be very disappointed in Hillary, although I will still love and support her. I hope someday we will find out what really went on behind the scenes.

  57. On the delegates,

    Here’s a Ben Smith piece that apparently corrects an earlier piece:

    “A pledged delegate from San Francisco who was on the call, David Serrano Sewall, emails while Clinton expressed her support for Obama, Ickes said “delegates can do what they want, any delegate can, but wanted us to hang with Hillary for now.”

    The Clinton aide said there’s no power play here: Clinton just wants to make sure her supporters are slated in state delegates and sent to Denver. Her camp pointed to precedent: Bradley in 2000 and Dean in 2004 didn’t formally release their delegates until the convention itself.”

    http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0608/Releasing_the_delegates.html

  58. bostonboomer, there has been so much disinformation floated by Obama and his supporters in the media that I don’t believe anything they say about Hillary.

    Hillary is a fighter.

  59. Mawm,

    Maybe you could write a post about it with RD’s approval? That way we would all know what is smoke and what is fire.

  60. Mawm,

    I don’t believe anything right now unless I hear it directly from Hillary or her closest advisors. And even then, I’m going to take everything with a large grain of salt, because I know darn well that Hillary can’t speak openly about anything that is going on in the former Democratic Party.

  61. Chimera…

    what a poignant (sic) synopsis and examination of Obama’s books. I refuse to buy a book to get to ‘know’ a candidate…self examination in one’s own words should be the definition of bias even with a prerequisite amount of, self-aware-compensation and consequent counter-spin.

    I trust your judgement and interpertation of Obama. He is a magnificient manipulator i.e. a good politician with boatloads of ambition, and I find the combination makes me just a little too uncomfortable. If he had a record and I had an idea of who he really is, I am sure I would not feel this way…

  62. plural,

    That is is exactly what we heard from captsfup (not sure if I got the initials right), who was also on the call.

  63. Davidson,

    I won’t vote for John Kerry. Sorry to disappoint you on that one.

  64. I’d be very careful about believing anything from the political press, like Ben Smith, or anyone. Apparently he was involved in dispensing misinformation in this case. Between the media’s obsessive desire to bash Hillary, and the Obama camp’s spreading lies, anything can be printed.

    And then retracted. Or not.

  65. Dot

    I agree in supporting our own choices of downticket Dems, Come November I will be votig AGAINST
    Obama and also AGAINST any Dem who supported him. In NY that will be:

    1. Rep. Gary Ackerman
    2. Rep. Michael Arcuri
    3. Rep Timothy Bishop
    4. Rep. Josheph Crowley
    5. Rep Eliot Engel
    6. Rep. Kirsten Gillibrand
    7. Rep. John Hall
    8. Rep. Brian Higgins
    9. Rep. Maurice Hinchey
    10. Rep. Steve Israel
    11. Rep. Nita Lowey
    12. Rep. Carolyn Maloney
    13. Rep. Carolyn McCarthy
    14. Rep. Michael McNulty
    15. Rep. Gregory Meeks
    16. Rep. Jerrold Nadler
    17. Rep. Charles Rangel
    18. Rep. Jose Serrano
    19. Rep. Louise Slaughter
    20. Rep. Edolphus Towns
    21. Rep. Nydia Velazquez
    22.Rep. Anthony Weiner
    23. Rep. Yvette D. Clarke
    24. DNC Marianne Spraggins

    All except for Marianne Spraggins are up for
    re-election in Nov 2008 – I will be doing my best to make people aware of their support for Obama- Especially all Clinton supporters

    I think if we want to send a message we should do it with our vote, don’t you think?

  66. Kim,

    At your request, I deleted your comment. But I’ll still look up the quotes if anyone can find the relevant page numbers. I’m not going to reread the books, that’s for sure!

  67. This is not rumor, it’s just one of my ruminations:
    I feel so torn when I consider Obama’s childhood. One the one hand I feel so much empathy – I lost my dad at an early age, and he was abandoned by his. That’s a huge wound, and it really marks a person. Also the growing up in a place you don’t fit in, I grok that too.

    On the other hand, I think, OMG, we just suffered through 8 years under a president with severe daddy issues, and now it looks like we’re replacing him with another guy with daddy issues. Ack!!!!

  68. I try not to repeat stuff unless I’ve seen it numerous places. Sometimes a rumor leads to fact and sometimes not. With Obama there sure as hell are enough nasty facts that we can wait to the “rumors” to be provable.

    What I cannot do is care when Obama is smeared. I file that under what goes around comes around. For instance this morning Think Progress has it’s knickers all in a twist over an Obama Sock Doll that looks, so they say like “Curious George”. It’s racist, they scream.

    Scream away folks. But the silence over the Hillary nutcracker was deafening. If you don’t give a crap about sexism your outrage over racism is repulsive.

  69. BB: I looked them up on his stop the smears page. Yeah, I went there to look. More out of curiousity, than to check the quotes. The quotes were made, but were a little out of context. I just can’t believe we have a Presidential candidate, who has so many rumours, he has to set up a website to debunk them.

    Like RD, I don’t care for all the rumors either, but damn, maybe we should elect someone we know something about.

    Makes me wanna yell.

  70. Davidson. Thanks for the link about the Clinton phone call with delegates. It makes me sick. I have really been holding onto the hope that something miraculous would unfold over the summer and that HRC would sweep the nomination at the convention. Guess I better get over it.

    In regards to voting in November, I intend to vote down ticket only. Cannot vote BHO and reluctant to vote McCain. A friend of mine recently sent me an article about the how women won the right to vote and at what cost to themselves. They were beaten, jailed, starved and worse, all at the hands of men who didn’t want to give up any power. So, not to vote at all as a woman, would fly in the face of those who suffered to get us the vote.

  71. Hmmm, I love this site. I’m as enthusiastic a Hillary Clinton supporter as I’ve ever met. I will be voting Green in Nov.

    And — I just want to say, I don’t feel comfortable with Obama being called “The Precious.” I know it’s supposed to be funny, but why go ad hominem when there is so much else to criticize?

    Also — I don’t blame Obama for railing against “whitey.” As a woman there have been many times I’ve railed against “men.” But I am married to a man, and have two boys, and work with men every day — so I think it’s possible to be angry at some things a group does AND still work with that group.

    In fact, it’s usually necessary to work with the dominant group. Especially in a patriarchy, where “white” is king.

  72. MaryLee, on June 13th, 2008 at 9:23 am Said:

    To get onto the TM site, just press the Stop icon at the top of the browser as the ads are loading. The diversionary website gets loaded towards the end of the regular ad-loading that occurs on that site, so you want her usual graphics to load, but not all the ads on the right column to load because that’s when the turkishwarrior thing comes up.

  73. bostonboomer, on June 13th, 2008 at 10:26 am Said:
    Davidson,

    I won’t vote for John Kerry. Sorry to disappoint you on that one.
    ………………………….

    I wonder how his primary challenge will go…

    it would be the ultimate irony if Kerry were to lose to a new, realitively inexperienced, upstart who will use Kerrys war vote against him…

  74. I don’t think rumors and circumstantial evidence are the same thing.

    Rumors = whitey tape, obama is muslim, birth certificate…

    We probably don’t need to spend too much time on them, and frankly, I don’t believe anything will change the current course of him being nominated – even if something really, really bad happens to obama at this point, it will somehow be blamed on Hillary.

  75. Those of you who may be interested know that there is a teleconference scheduled for Saturday, June 14th (Bastille Day!) with John McCain for HRC

    supporters at 3:30.

    Here is the access info to register for the call:

    email: teletownhall@johnmccain.com

    OR http://cityhall.johnmccain.com

    If you can’t participate in the call, but want to submit a question, please send it to MKforhillary@gmail.com

  76. This story appeared in the Chicago Tribune yesterday and it concerns allegations by Tony Rezko that the federal prosecutors are pressuring him to tell what he know about Obama and Gov. Blagojevich.

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-obama-rezko-letterjun12,0,4152199.story

    That story was followed today by an op/ed piece written by John Kass, whose commentary on CLTV after the verdict was linked here before.

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/chi-kass-13-jun13,0,1570658.column

    As an additional bit of reading, here is the story about the manner in which Obama bought his house with Rezko’s house. It has reminded me of how when we were little and we wanted something badly, but we knew our parents weren’t going to get it for us, so we showed it to grandma or grandpa in hopes they would get it for us. Rezko was Obama’s fairy godfather regarding this house.

    I recommend reading the story that appeared in the Chicago Tribune on November 1, 2006 with the headline “Rezko owns vacant lot next to Obama’s home.” The story, which was written before before Obama announced that he was running for president, lays out the process involved in making the purchase quite well. It is available through the Tribune article for a small fee.

    The Chicago Tribune did a very good job of covering Obama during his first year as senator and I would recommend checking the stories that ran there.

  77. The birth certificate is on the site as well and it is the vital statistic one. Not the one that lists weight, length, religion, etc. Just the one that said you were born, where and parents.

  78. Denise W, thanks for the list. Ed Towns is my Congressman and I like him. He did support Hillary till they all turned on her in the end, and I’m sure it couldn’t have been easy since a great deal of his constituency is AA. I have heard that he’s being challenged by a guy who’s like Rev. Wright only “more so”. I would imagine this would be in the September primary, b/c I can’t imagine that person would be a Republican. At any rate, I’m certainly not going to vote for a religious wingnut! I’ll have to do more investigating. Maybe there will be a Green Party candidate running for his seat.

  79. The thing for me is that I don’t care if he was born a muslim, or if he has sometimes muttered a racial slur. I was born a southern baptist (yikes!) and have said things before I shouldn’t have said. I have even muttered bitch before and I am a woman who hates that term.

    I want to know that he can lead this county. I want to know that he has good judgment. I want to know that he can be trusted with the most important position in the world.

    Is that asking too much?

  80. Riverdaughter, thank you for your amazing blog.

    Unless something amazing and unshakeable happens this summer, at some point you and others like you will have to realize the bareknuckled naked truth of this political season: A vote for anyone other than John McCain is a vote to make Barack Obama President. Likewise, a vote for anyone other than Barack Obama is a vote to make John McCain President. Unless you live in a magic state of grace where you can know in advance that your protest vote or write-in vote for another candidate will not impact the basic truth of the above calculation, you have a hard choice to make. “Friends don’t let friends vote Republican” is a cute phrase, but it is becoming increasing unhelpful in these times. Let us face facts: fascism and the impulse for absolute centralized power comes at us from both the left and the right. In our country we have never seen the left even come close to winning that game, but it can and does happen. Please pay attention, for example, to what is happening now with the Obama campaign basically taking over the DNC and moving it to Chicago. Only fringe Republican shills used to talk about liberal fascism. My friend, we are seeing the very real danger of it happening not just within our lifetime, but with this very election. Notwithstanding his abhorrent passive acceptance of sexism and mysogyny and race baiting when it helps his own campaign, Senator Obama is now charting a course for this country that leads us into tyranny and mob rule. Witness the Obama drones in their mindless Abercrombie & Fitch shirts holding up their uniform signs, chanting their meaningless but mesmerizing slogans like robots. This. Is. Serious. These are not normal times. Friends don’t let friends vote for fascists, or for people with fascist tendencies. Whatever you can say about John McCain, there is not one shred of authoritarianism in the man at all. He is an unabashed lover and defender of freedom and all it means and stands for. Fascism is real. It is not a relic of the history books. It is a mindset toward absolute control and power aligned with a particular set of (usually) corporate interests. It is the use of rallies and symbols and powerful charismatic leaders to assert mind control over the willing. And it is the powerful inner urge of a candidate named Obama. This is not a joke. These are immensely serious times. And Obama must be stopped. I hope I am wrong.

  81. Ralph, yes it does!

    Dump Bambi, Vote for Hillary as 44!

  82. Riverdaughter, thank you for your amazing blog.

    Unless something amazing and unshakeable happens this summer, at some point you and others like you will have to realize the bareknuckled naked truth of this political season: A vote for anyone other than John McCain is a vote to make Barack Obama President. Likewise, a vote for anyone other than Barack Obama is a vote to make John McCain President. Unless you live in a magic state of grace where you can know in advance that your protest vote or write-in vote for another candidate will not impact the basic truth of the above calculation, you have a hard choice to make. “Friends don’t let friends vote Republican” is a cute phrase, but it is becoming increasing unhelpful in these times. Let us face facts: fascism and the impulse for absolute centralized power comes at us from both the left and the right. In our country we have never seen the left even come close to winning that game, but it can and does happen. Please pay attention, for example, to what is happening now with the Obama campaign basically taking over the DNC and moving it to Chicago. Only fringe Republican shills used to talk about liberal fascism. My friend, we are seeing the very real danger of it happening not just within our lifetime, but with this very election. Notwithstanding his abhorrent passive acceptance of sexism and mysogyny and race baiting when it helps his own campaign, Senator Obama is now charting a course for this country that leads us into tyranny and mob rule. Witness the Obama drones in their mindless Abercrombie & Fitch shirts holding up their uniform signs, chanting their meaningless but mesmerizing slogans like robots. This. Is. Serious. These are not normal times. Friends don’t let friends vote for fascists, or for people with fascist tendencies. Whatever you can say about John McCain, there is not one shred of authoritarianism in the man at all. He is an unabashed lover and defender of freedom and all it means and stands for. Fascism is real. It is not a relic of the history books. It is a mindset toward absolute control and power aligned with a particular set of (usually) corporate interests. It is the use of rallies and symbols and powerful charismatic leaders to assert mind control over the willing. And it is the powerful inner urge of a candidate named Obama. This is not a joke. These are immensely serious times. And Obama must be stopped. I hope I am wrong.

    politicusfinch.blogspot.com

  83. >>>Taylor Marsh’s site hacked by the following Obamabot: HACKED 1923turk_turkishwarriorr
    I guess this is what Obama means when he says he intends to run an internet “war room” huh? He’s going to hack sites of Clinton supporters. Nice. Real Nice.

    WOW! that is scary!
    Obama takes over the Dem Party – and now the internet.

    Obama/Wright08

  84. From today’s Chicago Tribune, posted without further comment. Anyone who thinks columns in Chicago papers are rumors should avoid clicking the link.

    Rezko’s letter should put Obama, governor on alert

  85. Atticus, most of us are afraid, very afraid.

  86. >>>>we just suffered through 8 years under a president with severe daddy issues, and now it looks like we’re replacing him with another guy with daddy issues. Ack!!!!

    It appears Obamabots have their own Daddy issues by supporting a father figure who can “change the world.”

  87. Kim I don’t think you are asking too much. That’s exactly what I want too. I’m afraid though that I’m past being convinced that he has good judgment, can run the country or be trusted. At the end of the day those are by far the most important things to me and he just hasn’t passed those tests.

  88. Ralph we left your websites and came here, not to slur your candidate but to revel in our own.

    We are informed, we are intelligent and we will decide whom we vote for and nothing you can say will change that.

  89. That was the theme of yesterday’s postings; many of us are beginning to suffer from misgivings surrounding the actions of the Obama campaign. They control the media, access to the candidate, the party as a whole. We seem to be drifting a little too rapidly into dangerous waters and do not like what we are seeing.

  90. “bostonboomer”
    I AGREE WITH ALL YOUR POINTS!!
    Right down to how her salary @ the hospital increased “after” he entered the senate & ?? where the $1,000,000 “ear-mark” fits in??
    BEFORE HE GETS AWAY WITH THIS ONE TOO,WITH THE HELP OF THE “ENABLING MSM”! HIILLARY DESERVES AN APOLOGY FOR :
    Michelle’s earlier “stump speech”, something about
    “not being able to keep own house clean / how can she keep the white house clean”! This is DEM:DEM attack.
    She didn’t mind Hillary’s help when she campaigned
    for Barry in 2004.
    Toni T.

  91. tinfoil hattie, you sound like a real sweetie to me!

  92. Denise W, Dot, be careful with that list of NY Democrats who supported Obama. Most on that list did not come out to support Obama until after “the game was called” for him.

    I’m pretty sure many of the people on that list have been Hillary supporters until the bitter end, but came on board for Obama after Charlie Rangel’s conversation with her on Tuesday or Wednesday. And I know a LOT of them were getting terrific pressure to switch earlier, but stuck with her all along.

  93. Ralph,

    Affordable healthcare, withdrawal from Iraq, tax cuts for the middle and working class, and investment in alternative fuels.

    Obama has flip flopped on every one of those issues. I have no reason to believe he will do any of the things on your list. He has made it clear that he opposes universal health care, he is backed by and supports the nuclear power and coal industries and his top fundraisers are Wall Street firms that are pushing for privatization of social security and medicare. So are his top economic advisors. Obama has shown zero leadership on Iraq in the Senate.

  94. Stillife

    I can understand giving the ones who stood with her to the end a pass, at least they didn’t outright betray her -BUT- all who did abandon her before the primaries were over will definitely be voted against. As it is I am upset not many spoke up when she was being savaged. What really angers me is she was torn apart not for her issues, or where she stood, but demeaned for being a strong woman, for fighting as any other politician would have fought. She was hobbled at every turn with hateful and unfair attacks, and many condoned it.

  95. We are not in this fight for ourselves and our own self interest. We are Americans first.

  96. I never much liked Jay Leno or thought him funny. Like him less now. Did you hear his own little contribution to media misogyny?

    He says, ” Hillary would give Obama a lap dance to be VP.”

    The Beat Goes On
    http://readme.readmedia.com/news/show/And-The-Beat-Goes-On/197759

    Am I the only one that doesn’t find that one bit funny?

  97. Anyone want to debate Ralph?

  98. Ralph, Obama will NOT stop the war. He even told you he wouldn’t, but you only heard what you wanted to.

    Obama is a liar. He has trashed every Democratic principle, and now he is taking the DNC back to the cess pool of politics, Chicago, to corrupt it totally.

    I am voting against Obama to sae my party and this country from his corrupting influence.

  99. All in favor of Ralph leaving?

  100. Kim,

    The best way to talk to Obama supporters like Ralph is just not to talk to them. I reget that I replied to his initial comment. Like most of his compatriots, he is not open to reasoned argument or evidence.

  101. ralph, ralph, ralph. take your meager rhetorical efforts back home where they came from. we are adults here. we saw the sexism and fraud with our own eyes. john mccain could sprout horns on national tv and it wouldn’t change the facts… this was a dishonest primary process. our candidate was the target of the worst kind of political dirty dealing.

  102. o-bot,

    You are not welcome here and have been told that previously. Bye-eeee!

  103. Marge,

    “Am I the only one that doesn’t find that one bit funny?”

    NO.

  104. Yes Ralph that is the exact situation. Due to the fact that we have all ready examined everything Obama – and found his positions to against our self interests .

    As far as opinions go .. uh .. we are quite aware of all ‘opinions’ … You insult us by even suggesting we are not . So sweetie .. anything you may come up with – you will just have to trust me on this .. We’ve been there and done that …

  105. I know, but they are all so narcissistic, they know more than we do. The thing that gets to me most, is that when challenged, we know more about their candidate than they do.

  106. ralph, I suggest you go to JohnMcCain’s blog and debate them. I mean your guy was “given” the nomination right? Why do you feel the need to debate Hillary supporters now? Don’t you think you could spend more productive time suppressing republican voters, so your candidate can steal the general too?

  107. I never liked Jay Leno much or thought him funny. I like him even less today. Seems Jay is one more Member of the Media Misogynists.

    Leno reportedly said, “Hillary would give Obama a lap dance to be VP.”

    The Beat Goes On
    http://readme.readmedia.com/news/show/And-The-Beat-Goes-On/197759

    Am I the only one that not only doesn’t find that funny but am once again in outrage at the Media Misogynists?

  108. Oops, double posted. Sorry 😦

  109. Go away ” Ralph”

  110. Obama is not fit to be CIC. He is a danger to our country. I’m voting for McCain.

    It’s gonna be a long battle and I’m ready for it.

    I am not scared. I’m keeping my cool.

    Time is on my side – yes it is.

  111. Sorry again. The two quotes from gary above are from me. Forgot to logoff his account again today.

    Gary, I promise I am not trying to pull a pod-person on you.

    Love you!

  112. ralph: Get on your Unity Pony and take your Paul Revere warnings with you. This is a like minded blog not a high school debating society.

  113. If anyone is interested in ‘cartoons’ or funny pics of Obama – the ‘savage politics ‘ site on RDs blogroll has got tons of them – you go to that site then on the right hand side you find where it says “art gallery” .. funnay – there is stuff there on everyone .. against dems, against Hillary but not so much anymore .. but MOSTLY all funny BO stuff

    oops am I not to call him that anymore ?? I will go reread ..

  114. Clinton supporters and Obama supporters
    world views are centered in completely different parts of the brain. There’s no way have unity. Oh and Obama is as scary as shit. The kool aide is flowing from the highest possible sources . I think Dean wants to destroy the party…I mean he already has life support. Thank you, Dr Kevorkian Dean

  115. Ralph, this isn’t the forum for an Obama vs CLinton debate. Like I said, if you really want a debate go to JohnMcain’s web-site since he is the candidate your guy will be competeing against.

    Aren’t you a little scared that you feel the need to make war on two fronts now? Time is running out. Do you debate the “crazy” Hillary supporters, or the “evil” republicans?

  116. ralph, the question really is, why do you care?

  117. ralph: The view we have of your candidate is not flattering. We see fraud, voter suppression, inexperience, flip flopping, dangerous ties to unsavory people, sexism, unfair labeling of racism, the list goes on.

    Surely they did not elicit your support to go there and beat the drum on behalf of Obama without expecting to encounter people who have serious reservations about his candidacy. You are not capable, and in all fairness, neither is he, to change minds over here. Don’t waste your time, breath, finger tapping because the door is closed.

  118. you know most of the Obama supporters give you reasons NOT to vote McCain. Most cannot give you a reason to vote for Obama, and if they do, it is his copy of her policies.

  119. Denise W, AFAIK most of the NY Congress-critters did stand with her to the end. I agree with you that the other ones should be dumped, stat. The only one that I have the power to vote for or against is Ed Towns, and I’m sticking with him. For anyone in Nydia Velasquez’s district, she was also a strong Clinton supporter – I think most of them were.

    For myself, since I’m considering voting for McCain, we need Dems in the Senate and the House. AFAIK, there were no turn-coats in NYS – but of course, this is Clinton Country.

    Now, they’re just pols, behaving like pols. It’s the nature of the beast.

  120. ralph, on June 13th, 2008 at 10:53 am Said:
    Does it matter if John McCain wins, he appoints justices who outlaw abortion, we stay in Iraq for 100 years, there is no universal healthcare and only tax cuts for the rich?
    ………………………………………………………

    As long as your boy Barry is not such a drag down ticket…McCain will not accomplish any, or atleast most, of these things…

    Divided government can yeild good results, as long as the executive is reasonable; Bill Clinton was a good example…

    Sorry but I do feel McCain is a reasonable man…as much as I am told to hate him, it is very hard to do so…
    standing next to Barry, McCain looks far more deserving and qualified to be president (atleast right now)…

    He has shown integrity in the past and had made great sacrifices for his country (POW for 5 years)…

    I may disagree with him politically on many issues, but picking a president is about more than just listing policy positions on a website (and deleting them when they are inconvienent).

  121. Ralph? as in to hurl? apt name.

  122. Ralph,

    Just to be upfront with you, I’m moderating some of your comments so that RonK can compare your IP address to previous spammers. We have had a lot of troll infestations here from Obama trolls who used multiple screen names.

  123. Meanwhile, all is not happy in Bill Richardson land of disenchantment…

    “Bill Richardson’s Star is Falling with a BIG THUD (Not on VP Shortlist, State Legislators FED UP with Him)”
    http://tinyurl.com/4mogb7

    The big phony is finally getting it all back as his poll numbers wane…And I can’t say I’m not happy about it!!!

  124. As much as I disagree with McCain on many policy issues, anyone who tries to deny that he has many qualities one would want in a President is a fool. This year my choice is the lesser of two evils — vote for the good man with whom I don’t always agree or vote for the man who scares the beejesus out of me. I think my choice is simple.

  125. Ralph, why don’t you try reading all the posts from the last couple weeks. You can start with the ones from May 31st. That will give you a good idea. We aren’t your servants that we have to drop what we are doing to inform you. Inform yourself.

  126. “Just as reasonable human beings who should theoretically be able to discuss an issue without trying to throw chairs at one another.”

    What an elitist!

  127. Good Morning from here on the west coast….. I have only posted here once before. Am finding that I need to broaden my dialog some. (x-pat from T.M.) Posting on Bitterpoliticz also.

    Does anyone have a link or more specific info on the Clinton camp call telling her delegates to do everything to elect BO? Really?? That is so hard to believe. I DON’T want to believe that. Why would she do that? Anyone?

  128. Some of the things McCain says and does are totally against my dem principles, but I know that he is a patriot and is in this for the right reasons, just as I know, Hillary was. I don’t think either of those two candidates is in this for the glory and the definitely don’t need the money. My state is not a swing state, I think SC has gone republican since the 60’s, so it doesn’t matter for me.

  129. Conflucians, please don’t feed the trolls.

    Ralph, You may have misunderstood the purpose of this site. It is not a debate forum. We don’t have to answer your accusations or defend our positions to you. As far as I know, you were not invited to participate in this thread.

  130. Hi Kbird, thinking of you today….mega good vibes your way (reaching through the screen and hugging…)

    BB: what do you mean you felt attacked yesterday? (I have actually been taking care of kids and working at the garden today, so I did not read all the comments in the previous thread)

    rumours, you say? What about this one: Obama’s father was an….ALIEN…..

    ralph: we love you and we are all voting for Obama (twice if they let us) and his leadership is the bestest for ever…you know that right?

  131. GRL, on June 13th, 2008 at 11:35 am Said:
    Meanwhile, all is not happy in Bill Richardson land of disenchantment…

    “Bill Richardson’s Star is Falling with a BIG THUD (Not on VP Shortlist, State Legislators FED UP with Him)”

    LOLOLOL!! Anyone could have told him he was being played. He’s a big nothing that owes his career to the Clintons and now that his usefulness to BO is over , he’ll go back to being the NM used car salesmen he was meant to be. It’s sad what ego will do to us and how it blinds us and HOW easy it was to gather Bill in.
    BR, buy a clue okay? WHY would anyone put you on a ticket when your own campaign went nowhere ?

  132. Ralph: “Anyone who does not wish to discuss with me, may just tune me out.”

    No, Ralph, that is not how this site operates. And your last comment is so offensive as to make you completely unwelcome here. I’ll leave it to RonK to decide if your internet provider should be notified.

  133. ralph:” Obama a negro from the hood”

    You have now crossed the line.

  134. ralph, on June 13th, 2008 at 11:39 am Said:
    @ DR,

    So you really think that Obama will renege on all or most of his stated policy positions?
    ……………………….

    Ralph…

    at this point in time, there is no doubt in my mind Obama would renege on anything to solidify what he feels is his political, and life, destiny…

    and trust me I do not like feeling this way…

  135. ralph, on June 13th, 2008 at 11:41 am Said:
    @ Mawm, I wish to discuss with the Hillary supporters here. Anyone who does not wish to discuss with me, may just tune me out. If you consider discussion and disagreement to be the same thing as “servitude” than don’t discuss with me. By all means, continue calling Obama a negro from the hood or whatever else it is that you normally do.
    ——————–

    Wow, you have no inkling of the great contributions of River Daughter, do you?

    She is an incredibly intelligent, philosophical commentator, with more class in her fingernail than 90% of the other big corporate infiltered blogs, and you come here and demean her personal space on the net.

    Disgusting!

  136. ralph, the “servitude” is you popping in here and telling us to list our reasons for not voting BO. WHy don’t you try reading the previous posts first, and then you will see where we are coming from. You are very lazy in that you demand that we tell you, instead of you taking responsibility for your own education and reading what is on the site already.

  137. I am cleaning today. After I complete a chore I check back to the site. Ralph is still here!

    I am unable to work up much enthusiasm for McCain but the bitter truth is he may be less dangerous than you know who. There is something there. I can feel it in my Irish bones. Intuition is the best of all devices to measure uncertainty.

  138. Speaking of “servitude”, Mawm can you come over and help me turn the mattress on the bed? I am having some difficulty.

  139. Pat, my house is the white one with the green minivan parked in the driveway.

    When you are done with your cleaning, can you please help me with mine?

  140. Kim — I agree with your assessment of McCain as well, and it is why he will get my vote if the choice after August remains him or Obama — at least I know who he is and what he stands for, which is a lot more then I know about Obama and the “NEW” Democrat Party. However, I’m in an “alleged” swing-state (NC — and I use the word “alleged” because I think that it’s elevation to swing-state status is wishful thinking on Obama’s part) and I’m still voting McCain. In doing so, I will be protesting the actions of the RBC, the DNC, the msm & the Obama camp. This is very important for me to do as a woman & as an American.

  141. and ralph, the race-baiting is what your side does. We are all real democrats here and we do not engage in race-baiting. I abhor race politics of all kinds. YOU are the one bringing nasty race-baiting to this forum.

    I think you just earned yourself a ticket to the spam filter.

  142. “I shall withdrawal”? Ralph must be the originator of those insipid slogans we discussed last night.

  143. I had a doctor’s appointment yesterday and this morning had to schedule the usual that goes along with being a woman.

    The first question was my name, the second was “Do I have insurance?” I have always had insurance, but, does anyone know what happens if you say “No?” Are you immediately sent to the local clinic? This was so distressing to me, to think women can’t have a mammo, if they aren’t insured.

    We needed Hillary’s healthcare package so badly.

  144. Upstate: No.

  145. Nobody likes a traitor. Thats what Benedict Arnold learned and what Bill Richardson is learning now. Obama only likes you if you are of use to him and will throw anyone, even a 20 year spiritual mentor, under the bus.

  146. “I’ll leave it to RonK to decide if your internet provider should be notified.”

    You should listen to yourself. You’re going to contact my internet provided, because I disagreed with you? Well go ahead. This reminds me of how they treat people in China, crushing democracy and free speech. It’s very sad to see. I think Hillary Clinton would be disappointed.

    Have a good day everyone.

    – Ralph

  147. Fine Pat, be that way, I was going to help you with your mattress but you can forget about it now…

  148. I once went to an eye doctor with a serious eye injury after a referral from an emergency room. When I called the office, I was told, “We won’t take you unless you have an insurance card.”

  149. Hi Upstate and Confluencians: My procedure was cancelled — the receptionist made the appointment with the Dr. who requested the procedure, not the one who was to do it. And in spite of me calling twice this week to confirm aspects of the appointment — no one caught that until this morning.

    So, I’m sitting at work steaming with rage.

    And lurking.

    I haven’t heard back from my primary care doctor about this.

  150. Ralph: Speaking as a Clinton supporter who will reluctantly vote for Obama in November, the answer is yes–yes, I think Obama will renege on all or most of his stated policy positions. My problem is that McCain WON’T renege on his, and since they are by-and-large crazy things I can’t accept, well, that’s my thought process. The thing about Obama’s extensive policy statements is that he only came up with them after he was challenged for not having any, whereas Clinton had hers from the get-go. For Obama they’re just annoying stuff you have to do, so people don’t slam you; for Clinton, they’re the actual purpose of being president. So I think Obama is likely to renege on them, not because he is much less trustworthy that the average politician, but because he wasn’t wedded to them in the first place.

  151. “Have a good day everyone”

    Yes, Keith. No BFF?

  152. Upstate: Note how Mawm has yet to answer. You have proven yourself to be the truer friend.

  153. ralph, on June 13th, 2008 at 11:49 am Said:
    “I’ll leave it to RonK to decide if your internet provider should be notified.”

    You should listen to yourself. You’re going to contact my internet provided, because I disagreed with you? Well go ahead. This reminds me of how they treat people in China, crushing democracy and free speech. It’s very sad to see. I think Hillary Clinton would be disappointed.

    Have a good day everyone.

    – Ralph
    ————-

    Oh, so you were a former Hillary supporter who have also been banned from HuffPo, and DKos?

    Niceeee!

  154. kbird: that sucks (sp?). You have to love health care providers. Cannot live without them though….I hope things work out.

  155. Pat: “You have proven yourself to be the truer friend.”

    Yes, and see what it got me… a big fat nothing from you…

    Now go and clean. 😉

  156. I think they come here because back in the day the good Dem base could indeed be shamed into compliance when told it was being” unfair ” and ” unreasonable” to someone who was…”simply seeking a dialog”

    blah blah blah

    that boat as sailed. And we have Hillary to thank.
    If she hadn’t fought as hard as she did, we would have not known just what the Dem elite thinks of its base.
    It’s good to know . If Hill is telling her delegates to help BO, I believe she wants the little guys in the party to have their asses covered and protected. Wait upon events

  157. UpstateNY,

    Maybe I’m just being oversensitive, but I think both Obamas’ particpation in the Daley patronage machine should be fair game for discussion. I also do not believe that disucussing the possibility of Obama being a target of Patrick Fitzgerald’s investigation of “Operation Board Games” and other scemes involving Rezko, Auchi, and Blagovich are “rumormongering.”

    I don’t want to name names, but a person on one of last night’s threads said that such discussion was rumormongering and should not be allowed. I disagreed with that person and specifically asked that person to respond to me on that question. The person ignored me. I admit I took offense and I said so last night. Sorry to seem cryptic, but I don’t want to start a fight. I just feel strongly that the Chicago investigation makes Obama a very questionable nominee.

    I’m hoping that Riverdaughter will clarify this, because if the Chicago stuff is really off-limits, I will respect her rules.

  158. The Obamabots have been and are using race as a blunt weapon like Bush used patriotism. It is absolutely destructive and sets race relations back by breeding resentment.

    I think Ralph deserves to go to the spam filter just for his race baiting comments alone.

  159. Kim — good question. Sadly, I would guess that the question doesn’t come up very often because women without insurance probably don’t even go for their yearly wellness exams like those of us who are lucky enough to have insurance do. These exams should not be a luxury — which is just one of the thousands of reasons I have been a Democrat for my entire adult life, and why I am so disillusioned that the party has revealed it doesn’t give a d@mn about UHC, just money and Sen. Gallahad (and anyone who wants to tell me that the New Democratic Party does care about UHC, please explain Kerry’s “UHC is a non-starter” statement & Obama Harry & Louise fliers when they were attacking Hillary’s plan).

  160. WS,

    Ralph is in the spam filter, and I left a note for RonK.

  161. I am unable to work up much enthusiasm for McCain but the bitter truth is he may be less dangerous than you know who. There is something there. I can feel it in my Irish bones. Intuition is the best of all devices to measure uncertainty. – Pat J.

    ************************************************************

    May I join the discussion with all of you.?

    Me too. I got into a discussion my non-political sister two nights ago. She and her family are in Ca. and voted for Hill. She told me no matter how disappointed I am I must keep JMc out of the white house by voting for BO. I reminded her of that “gut feeling” she had in the beginning of the race that something is just not right about BO. I too have had this feeling in a very strong way.

    I also now have all the research and specific horrendous details about this man to back the “feeling” up. However, many busy folks do not have access to sources like we do.

    I have a theory that all those “undecideds” we saw over and over again at the polls were also people with this “gut feeling”.

    In our culture we are taught to value only the reasons for a thing. We often don’t trust the “feeling” if we can’t explain it. I think all those people breaking at the last minute for Hill finally decided to go with the feeling.

    People “know” there is something that is very “off” about BO.

  162. I wish some of you would join me some days on the Stephanie Miller liveblog (9am to 12pm Eastern). I would appreciate some help, that blog needs more logical people participating…

    I still like Stephanie Miller, even though she is completely in the tank for Obama…(like the vast majority of progressive talkers)

    the live blog is found on her website:

    http://www.stephaniemiller.com

  163. The bottom line for me is, even if BO is the person he appears to have created, he would still be unqualified to be POTUS. His supporters seem to ignore or to not understand that it is actually a serious job requiring preparation and skills and not just a symbolic embodiment of their hopes.

    And given the associations that he has with Reverend Wright, Rezko, Odinga, etc. he only has two explanations: either he participated willingly for whatever reasons or he is dangerously naive and gullible. Either way it disqualifies him as POTUS, IMO.

    No amount of shrieking from them changes that. In fact, it just makes him seem just plain dangerous.

  164. destardi,

    seriously! I have been banned from every Obama supporting blog for simple supprting Clinton.

    My thoughts were Ralph should go in the spam filter for his race-baiting comments. He let his true colors show when he said:

    By all means, continue calling Obama a negro from the hood or whatever else it is that you normally do.

    This is what Obama supporters do. When they face people who don’t immediately accept the precious they accuse them of racism. Good luck with that one on the Republicans, ralph!

  165. katiebird, on June 13th, 2008 at 11:50 am Said:

    I just saw this and I’m very sorry.

    ….And in spite of me calling twice this week to confirm aspects of the appointment — no one caught that until this morning.

    That is so tipcal and madding

  166. Seattlegal,

    Boy do I agree with you! I have had the funny feeling in the pit of my stomach since about last November.

  167. And that O-bot#2 sending that horrible picture was race baiting

  168. We’ve waited decades for UHC and we can wait for 4 more years. Obama’s plan will get diluted by the right and the spineless Dems and will look like No Child Left Behind or Medicare Part D.

    BTW, when is it speculation and when is it rumormongering?

  169. Ok people…if this is off color (and I do NOT believe it is)
    there is a FANTASTIC article up written jointly by Bud White and Medusa on No Quarter.

    It is eye opening, and I firmly believe it’s connecting the dots at its best.

    http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/06/13/michelle-obama-off-tape/#comment-345902

  170. BB: understood, I will go back and read the comments.

    I do not believe that Chicago and connections are off limits, I think we are trying to get away from the “tape”, the Muslim stuff and all that, though

    Remember this site has grown exponentially and many of our recent “refugees” were used to talk about this and others topics in the “old countries” they came from.

    OK, now I am going to read the previous threads.

  171. Sorry guys, Pat & Upstate. I was cleaning up after the mess ralph made on the floor. Sure I’ll help you turn over the mattress, but it may take me a while to get from NC to MA.

  172. WS, the race-bating by the Obama campaign (I don’t believe that’s a mere rumor is it – e.g., calling Bill C. out in S.D. wasn’t true, and Hillary as assassine instigator) setting this country’s racial tensions aflame is the main reason I’ll never forgive him. As a whitey raised in a Detroit ghetto in the 60s, I’m not to keen on using race as a cudgel.

  173. Sharon, they even turned up a memo from Obama campaign that outlined it in SC. The irony is the memo was written by the same woman that is in charge of the sto the smears obama web-site.

  174. Yeah Babyboomer…. totally with you on this “gut feeling” thing. I am torn because something important is going on with Hillary…. she is so brilliant and knows this game better than anyone (except maybe bill) and I’m sure she is thinking the long view.

    I just cannot come to terms with that other guy sitting in the white house in charge of the most powerful military in the world… and surrounding himself with questionable people. Why are people not scared “sh–less” by this guy? I have the most terrible feeling about this.

  175. Seattle Gal:

    I reminded her of that “gut feeling” she had in the beginning of the race that something is just not right about BO.

    The last time I had that gut feeling, or what women commonly refer to as “intuition”, I took a drive and discovered my former husband’s assistant was pregnant with his kid. So I pay alot of attention to that gut feeling.

    About UHC, I saw a special not long ago on one of the channels I still allow myself to watch. The is special was about Social Security and the effect it had on pension plans. Most of the pension plans were discarded after social security came into play. Pension plans were much better that the plans we now have on the table, as they aren’t based on the market and speculation.

    I have a feeling that BO’s non-mandated plan will be the same. If employers think, “Hey, they can just go on the government plan”, they will drop us to save costs.

    And as for being banned from other sites, I got banned from HuffPost for making a pro-Hillary supporter and I was one of the “Off the Bus” citizen journalists for them. They had to go in and take me off the banned list, just to turn in my assignments.

  176. In our culture we are taught to value only the reasons for a thing. We often don’t trust the “feeling” if we can’t explain it. I think all those people breaking at the last minute for Hill finally decided to go with the feeling.

    People “know” there is something that is very “off” about BO.
    ………………………………………………………..

    Seattlegal

    I agree. Especially with us progressives. We are open-minded by insticnt. We do not like to base our decisions on feelings that we very well know maybe prejudicial or even unwarranted.

    However, when the needed precepts and evidence are lacking, there is nothing wrong with trusting that ‘feeling’ we have.

    We can not make our decision based on Obama’s record, he has no record (or a very short one)…

    Emotions are a two way street (atleast), as far as I am concerned there is very little rational basis for Obama’s candidacy. He has been exalted by emotion from the beggining and thats why he failed to unify the Democratic (the former) party. Some of us (just over half) just will not be swayed by emotion and rhetoeric alone…

  177. Upstate NY,

    In the post RD says: And let us not jump to conclusions that Obama is a corrupt Chicago politician, even if there is mounting circumstantial evidence that suggests that he is. Without proof, we would just be dragging his name through the mud and that would be wrong.

    I am going to respect her admonition by not talking about the Chicago investigation. I will continue to read about though. I couldn’t care less what Obama’s religion is unless he tries to push it on me. I don’t believe I have ever pushed the tape rumor and I have defended Obama over the silly birth certificate “controversy.”
    I just don’t believe I’m guilty of any of this, and that is why I was a little disturbed last night.

  178. “And let us not jump to conclusions that Obama is a corrupt Chicago politician, even if there is mounting circumstantial evidence that suggests that he is. Without proof, we would just be dragging his name through the mud and that would be wrong. ”

    Wow really, I think it is called having a discussion that the MSM refuses to have and he was already muddy, alot of detailed information and time lines at rezkowatch, they are to Rezko/Obama what FDL was to Scooter/Bush. Friends don’t let friend’s vote for corruption.

  179. So, I told you all a little bit about my mother’s letter from Obama. Let’s talk about it a little more. It’s a 4 page letter. There’s lots of biography. There’s talk about cynacism. There’s a discussion of the barriers Hillary has broken. There is no reference to the Democratic Party or the Republican Party. The Republican Party is referred to only as the “opposition”, and the “other side”. The Democratic Party is reffered to once as “our party”. There are exactly two paragraphs that deal with any sort of agenda or plans at all. They are as follows:

    “Change is a tax code that rewards work instead of wealth. Change is a health care plan that guarantees insurance to every American who wants it, and an education policy that gives every child a chance at success.

    Change is ending a war that should never have been authorized, and finishing a war against al-Qaida in Afghanistan that should never have been ignored.”

    That’s it. Nothing about global climate change. Nothing about jobs. Just a few vague lines about non-universal health care, the war and the tax code.

  180. WS: “When is it speculation and when is it rumormongering?”

    That is what I am confused about.

  181. I went to Politico to read the Ben Smith article about the DNC going to Chicago and I am wondering it was not just satirical.

    On the same note, though, I have been reading articles written by Lyndon LaRouche on one of his websites (not blogs) because of his adamant support of Hilary throughout all of the primaries, and he had a similarly-toned article this morning. It was titled “Howard Dean Schemes To Shut Down Democratic Convention.” It doesn’t mention anything about Chicago, though.

    Some highlights:

    “The latest atrocity to come out of Howard Dean, is that the Democratic National Committee chairman is trying to shut the 18 million loyal Democratic and independent voters who supported Hillary Clinton out of the Denver convention altogether. In addition to reports that the Obama campaign is pushing to actually unseat all the Clinton delegates and replace them with Obama loyalists, there are more recent reports that Howard Dean is trying to prevent any balloting for the Democratic nominee, and instead is trying to just ram through a voice vote for Obama, without a state-by-state roll call.”

    and

    ” Clearly, between the Obama campaign and Howard Dean, there is a great deal of worry that the vicious campaign that was run against Hillary Clinton has created a level of fury, which could explode at the convention. As Lyndon LaRouche warned, between George Soros, Howard Dean, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, and, not to mention the Obama campaign itself, there has been so much bad blood generated, that they have turned Hillary Clinton supporters into Hillary Clinton fanatics. According to one well-placed Washington source, if 20 percent of the Hillary Clinton voters were to sit out the November Presidential vote, that would amount to a loss of 4 million potential Obama voters–if, indeed, Obama wound up with the nomination in the first place. That could spell certain doom for Obama’s already-doomed candidacy.”

  182. Morning PUMA pride!
    Anyone know what’s up with Anglachel? She hasn’t posted since Tuesday. Did she say she’s going on vacation?
    Come November, I’ll be exploring my options with my fellow Buckeye PUMAs. First time, ever, I won’t be automatically voting Dem.
    This from someone whose blood ran blue.

  183. ” Clearly, between the Obama campaign and Howard Dean, there is a great deal of worry that the vicious campaign that was run against Hillary Clinton has created a level of fury, which could explode at the convention. As Lyndon LaRouche warned, between George Soros, Howard Dean, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, and, not to mention the Obama campaign itself, there has been so much bad blood generated, that they have turned Hillary Clinton supporters into Hillary Clinton fanatics. According to one well-placed Washington source, if 20 percent of the Hillary Clinton voters were to sit out the November Presidential vote, that would amount to a loss of 4 million potential Obama voters–if, indeed, Obama wound up with the nomination in the first place. That could spell certain doom for Obama’s already-doomed candidacy”

    La Rouche Via Karolina NYC

    *********************************************************

    We reap what we sow. Indeed.

  184. The Obama Fanclub needs some new talking points. The whole “there is no acceptable to dislike or fail to support the Dear Leader, therefore you must be a r*cist” is soooo March 2008.

    C’mon guys, you’ve got all the big money and all the party and media establishment in the tank — surely you can come up with some fresh material? We’re starting to wonder.

  185. Plural,

    I had to have some physical therapy awhile ago and my insurance only covered something like 4 sessions. I asked the physical therapy place if I could just pay them directly–like you know, in cash. They didn’t know how much it would cost or how I could go about doing that, and I would have had to call the hospital that ran the place and go through some tremedous rigimarole, so I gave up and did my own physical therapy.

  186. katiebird: I am seething right along with you if that is any comfort.

    Mawm: I’ll wait.

    An Obama solicitation came again in the mail. These people are like stalkers! I have already sent one back with a big red NO and HILLARY written across the front. Am I to assume these people can barely read to go along with their other tactics?

    It is one thing to call us out in our support for another candidate. But the line is severely crossed when they throw the race baiting crapola into the mix. This is as low as anyone can go for my money.

  187. What happened last night, I went to bed early, I must of missed something.

    So we can’t talk about Chicago politics, rumors or anything else? SOmeone said we couldn’t use BO, is that true. I am confused.

  188. SweetieSue!, on June 13th, 2008 at 12:15 pm Said:

    hey Sweetie Sue! I think Anglachel said she has a relative in the hospital?? Also even she might be slack jawed by the idea that four BO loving women polios on the platform in Denver….but not Hillary. That’s political theater of the absurd taken to a new level. Is Dean a secret member of PUMA?? He sure is acting as such!

  189. Reading This Explains A Lot About Barry
    Obama And The New Party
    http://countusout.wordpress.com/2008/06/13/obama-and-the-new-party-2/

  190. I thought I saw a legitimate article on MSN stating they were moving to Chicago.

  191. BB, I was prepared to pay with a credit card if necessary, and was shocked that even that was unacceptable without insurance.

    Once the emergency was over, I switched to a different provider.

  192. Karolina NYC, on June 13th, 2008 at 12:15 pm Said:

    I have been reading articles written by Lyndon LaRouche on one of his websites (not blogs) because of his adamant support of Hilary throughout all of the primaries…

    Is this true that he supported Hillary? I had no idea. I only question it because at Hillary’s last event in D.C. where she suspended her campaign there was LaRouche literature being handed out and I only scanned it briefly. In fact that was the only literature being handed out. Anyway the gist of it was that he was implying that it was not over. Dang now I wish I had read it through more carefully instead of using it to fan myself.

  193. I was given to prescriptions yesterday, neither are covered by insurance.

  194. Kim,

    I’m sorry. Maybe I shouldn’t have brought this up. I think maybe I was just being a little oversensitive.

  195. damn I cant type-two prescriptions

  196. for ¿bostonboomer?

    Re: specific posters not responding.

    Just a reminder that sometimes we only have limited time for reading and responding. Often I have to leave a blog before a response appears. By the time I get back to the thread there are two new ones, and the traffic on the one with the post-response-post question is stopped.

    GRL Heading to your site now to check out the story.

    My tag line, which I forget more often than I remember–
    I am not now and have never been a member of the Democratic Party.

  197. fred: If there is any validity to that posting it reinforces our collective sentiments on this blog.

  198. Thats okay, I like you anyway, all of you, singing to myself, your all a bunch of Hillary lovers. La ti da

  199. Kim: We just got sillly last night; discussing the variety of slogans the Obama camp has issued.

  200. Lyndon LaRouche is kind of a nut, in my opinon. I doubt if he would have supported Hillary, but I don’t really know. When I lived in Indiana as a kid, we used to see his infomercial types adds on TV. He used to run for President every four years. I always associated his ideas with the John Birch Society, but that could be wrong. I never paid that much attention because he seemed so nutty.

  201. Thanks,Annetwo. I do remember that Anglachel said that.
    What’s that about four women in Denver? I haven’t heard that.

  202. Well like I said I had my yearly ob/gyn yesterday, felt violated and went to bed. Who was the damn fool that said oh women get used to it?

  203. BB: OK, I saw it….and read your other comment above when I came back.

    I would not give it a second thought. YOU are one of the most respectful and thoughtful posters at this site, so I would not worry too much or take it personally.

  204. bb: He is out there. Wouldn’t put much stock in his support either way. His day has come and gone and he was soundly rejected. I think at one time he had a lot of problems with the IRS.

  205. UpstateNY,

    Thank you for saying that. I really appreciate it very much.

  206. plural, on June 13th, 2008 at 10:19 am Said:
    On the delegates,

    Here’s a Ben Smith piece that apparently corrects an earlier piece:

    “A pledged delegate from San Francisco who was on the call, David Serrano Sewall, emails while Clinton expressed her support for Obama, Ickes said “delegates can do what they want, any delegate can, but wanted us to hang with Hillary for now.”

    Just wanted to emphasize that for anyone having doubts.

  207. Katiebird: Sorry they effed your day up.

  208. As one of those “millions” that doesn’t have Health Insurance I can attest to how it changes your life. I once had medical and dental and took it for granted that yearly mammograms were a part of life. A problem with my teeth, go to the dentist.

    No longer. I haven’t had a mammogram in 8 years and seeing a dentist? No way.

    I just hope (and pray) that I will somehow stay relatively healthy for one more year and then I will be eligible for Medicare. Sad isn’t it, when you have to wish yourself older in order to get a geedee mammogram?

    That was my primary reason for supporting Senator Clinton. Now I have no hope with either of the remaining candidates that UHC is even on the horizon. How many women, like me, will lack the medical benefits that make early detection of breast cancer possible? And how many will die?

    UHC is and matter of life and death and it disgusts me that politicians are benefiting from the superior health care they receive, paid for by the citizens of this country, while denying it to others. What pathetic hypocrites they are.

  209. regencyg, on June 13th, 2008 at 12:34 pm Said:

    Great point regency. BO controls the media spin so of course the meme is going to be that Hillary urges her delegates to support BO. But I have long since turned off BOTV and get my messages straight from the horses mouth. In this case Hillary’s campaign. And Ickes response is loud and clear. Stick with Hillary.

  210. Just a reminder that sometimes we only have limited time for reading and responding. Often I have to leave a blog before a response appears. By the time I get back to the thread there are two new ones, and the traffic on the one with the post-response-post question is stopped – ea ”
    ******************************************************

    Yep, so true. It’s been nice chatting…. gotta run now. Life, and kids and work calling. Later

  211. Kenosha: Words escape me, and here I am bitching about two precscriptions.

  212. Ralph — We know McCain is bad news. Obama is worse news.

    If my choices on the ballot were:
    A) Barack Obama
    B) The Puppy-Throwing Marine

    I’d probably go with the Marine.

  213. “mar”
    Or someone else.
    Please check-out if any Chicago papers have whether or not Obama was in his HOME-CHURCH the Sun. after 09/11?
    As a NYer & an American I feel if he wasn’t @ church that day then why not? How did he react when he found out about the content of the semon?
    His where-abouts might be in a local piece since he was a public official @ the time.
    Just a thought!
    I’m not computer savvey!
    Thanks! Toni T.

  214. SweetieSue!, on June 13th, 2008 at 12:31 pm Said:

    Sorry I don’t have the article handy, but Dean said at Denver , Nancy P , the lady Gov of KS , ( both big BO heart throbs ) the mayor of Atlanta and some other dame , will be the chairs at the Dem Convention
    and on the platform. No notion of a person called Hillary Clinton. IF Hill gets to speak , it will be a 3:00 AM.( snark) She’s being scrubbed from the kremlin photos …you know , how folks would disappear from photos next to Stalin? Hilary who?

    PUMA!

  215. Hi Ron!

  216. ronkseattle, on June 13th, 2008 at 12:41 pm
    Said:

    lol!!

  217. Afternoon PUMAs!

    The Obama takeover of the DNC is very real, and it stinks to high heaven.

    As a project manager, I can tell you that these things do NOT happen overnight. Hardware/software configuration usually takes about six months to a year.

    The fix has been in for quite some time. F**k the New Plutocratic Party. I am so mad I can barely breathe.

  218. All right, peeps.

    A couple of weeks ago we bought a lab for son. She is only seven weeks old and is still with her mom and sibilings. She’ll be ready next week (after visit to vet).

    The breeder has been allowing us visitation rights until she is ready to come home.Today we are going to see her and son is super-excited.

    We must get ready… See you all later,

  219. Okay, I wrote an article on my blog, which is totally devoid of any comments, since I am always here, what are we going to do?

    I have always been an activist of sorts, do we blog, which is a good way to vent, but to quote my dear old grandfather, “Words without action to back them up is whining, so do something about it or be quiet.”

    So again, letter writing, calls, emails? What are we going to do?

  220. I’m sure most of you have been following the birth certificate controversy and have seen the document Kos posted at his site.

    http://dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/6/12/11012/6168/320/534616

    I don’t know if this has been discussed but I will post what I found out from a little googling and from noquarter:

    A person who CLAIMS to have been born in Hawaii, but does not have a “Certificate of Live Birth” (normal birth certificate with all the info such as time of birth, hospital, etc.), can obtain a “Certificate of Hawaiian Birth” very easily. All they need to do to get a Certificate of Hawaiian Birth is to take witnesses to the State Department of Health who could testify to the circumstances of their birth. Those testifying were usually family members or family friends.

    Here is an example of a Certificate of Hawaiian Birth that was done in 1967 for a woman born in 1909:

    Not exactly anything like the one posted on DK for Obama.

    All of this certainly leads to several questions. Why did Obama’s mother never get an original “Certificate of Live Birth” for her baby boy when he was born? When was the supposed “Certificate of Hawaiian Birth” shown on DK requested and who testified and to what did they testify?

    I believe that information must be available and accessible somewhere.

    I didn’t think much of the missing birth certificate until now. This is very strange. Something is definitely off with this.

  221. Some things like mammograms are available for free at the health dept in MI for those of us with “noncredible” (or no) health insurance (and the student sh*t I have is noncredible).

  222. I am a child of the late 60’s early seventies, when we were pissed, we took action.

  223. RD, KatieBird et al,

    Am I wrong or does this blog seem to be a boat drifting at sea w/out a purpose? The writing and posting remains exemplary but the passion seems to be missing. I really miss the shared mission and energy for Hillary’s candidacy. Maybe I’m the boat.

  224. what I find odd about that Birth cert, is it looks way too modern and photo shopped for one thing. It’s the least infomational one I’ve ever seen …. and whose race is African? You can be white and African…. my race is not American….

  225. ELixir: I have never felt more ready to take on the DNC in my life. Emails, letters, whatever, (I am a pacifist though).

    We all knew that it was possible, that at some point we would have to be resigned to the fact that Obama is the nominee, but I am not ready for that til September.

  226. Hate to mention this, but in 1961, the race was listed as negro.

  227. Elixir,
    I’m putting up a website this weekend. It will have an event calendar and wiki on it. I want to try and help organize people to get to Denver in August, and I would like to get super delegates on video explaining why they won’t cast their vote for the winner of the popular vote, the people’s choice.

    I agree with you. Without Hillary’s candidacy, we need to turn our attention to activism. Organizing rally’s and getting our voices heard beyond this blog.

  228. That birth certificate is the one issued by all Vital Statistics, in the event of the loss of the original. My son’s is like that, devoid of any thing except the things needed by the census bureau.

  229. Mawm: Put me down for Denver and I have three seats available for anyone in my area.

  230. Everyone has to deal with all this as best they can, . I’m not admitting nuthin till the balloons drop.

  231. Kim, on June 13th, 2008 at 12:57 pm Said:

    thank you! good to know!

  232. BB: That wasn’t rumor mongering was it. I had to do several thousand adoptions when welfare reform took place and AFDC was replaced with WFFA. I have seen thousands of birth certificates.

  233. Don’t let anyone tell you that you can’t do anything right now. Write letters to super-delegates asking them to support the winner of the popular-vote. If you get a response, share it with us.

    Make noise in your community, let people know the real story of what the DNC has been doing. A lot of people do not read blogs, and accept what the MSM feeds them. We need to be courageous and not worried about looking like fools. Get out there and tell people the TRUTH!

  234. Who hacked Taylor Marsh’s site? Anyone been in touch with her?

  235. So if I know and have seen this many birth certificates, it isn’t rumor mongering. In 1961, the races were listed much differently because political correctness wasn’t an issue. We were caucasian, AA’s were negro, etc. This is just what you get when you request a duplicate.

  236. OT.

    I don’t wanna beat the money deal to death because I know a lot of people have made up their minds, but there are just some things I think everybody should know.

    -Hillary’s campaign is in debt for $30-40 million.
    -Hillary has given her campaign $11.4 Million over the course of the primary.
    -Hillary has until August 25 to collect that money or she can only recover $250,000 of her personal contribution to her campaign.
    -Hillary and Bill’s combined net worth was roughly $40 Million, before they gave the campaign money. (Chances the bulk of their net worth isn’t liquid, it’s in assets, like their homes and possessions.) They do not have the money to pay that debt off, and legally they can’t.
    -I don’t have the FEC guidelines in front of me, but IIRC they can only give themselves up to $20 Million for the campaign; they’re almost there. Thus, no matter how much money they’ve made over the course of the last eight years, they don’t have most of that anymore and most of what they do have they can’t use.

    Feel free to check this out with HeidiLi. And that’s where I stop beating the dead horse.

  237. But I don’t think I have ever seen one that said African either. That implies the country of origin. If I was born in Africa, that makes me an African, but not black. Damn, I am confusing myself.

  238. Kim, on June 13th, 2008 at 12:56 pm Said:
    Hate to mention this, but in 1961, the race was listed as negro.

    Exactly. It sure wasn’t ” African” . Even the term Afro American was over ten years later . It’s odd

  239. Okay if someone wants to do something, lets stir the pot. Why don’t we contact every site and ask every person blogging or listing to make a contribution tomorrow, between 4 and 5 p.m. That would make news, Hillary’s campaign taking in several million in an hour or so.

  240. Kim: Does the copy really say “African”? That’s strange because Africa is a continent. It would be like writing “European” or “North American” on a birth certificate.

  241. Kim

    What I will do:

    1. Vote McCain and against all who supported Obama

    2. Boycott NBC/MSNBC/CNN- (Obama Networks) and
    their advertisers
    3. Ditto- NY Times, Newsweek, Nation, and all similar rags

    #2 and # 3 have been doing since Feb – (what a relief it is not hear/ see their disgusting filthy faces or read
    their dribble )

    -#1 -will promise to do in Nov

    Re: 1. Denver- what are we doing? open to
    suggestions

  242. They are also, at the Convention (assuming the DNC can afford to hold it), going to feature a big religious gathering because BO has found plenty of time to meet with extreme right-wing religious leaders, promise lots of policy-involvement treats ‘n; goodies to religious-rightwing whackos, set up his own Jesus Camp to indoctrinate youngsters into the light of Jaybus (this is wholly separate and distinct from the non-religious Obama Camp which indoctrinates youngsters into the light of Obama), but has not had time to vet his VP advisers, talk to any poor or working-class voters, or meet with McCain for a town hall.

    He is a busy man! He needs time to exchange long gushy e-mails with his new bestest BFF EVAH, Scarlett Johannssen! That’s way cool.

    Oh, and next time an Obamabot tries to use SCOTUS to scare you into voting for him, remind him that BO’s newest pal, Doug Kmiec, who is angling for a judgeship, is a member in very good standing of the Federalist Society, was a staunch defender of Alberto Gonzalez, thinks warantless wiretapping is A-OK, and is more anti-abortion than Jerry Falwell and Tom Coburn (BO’s other good pal) combined.

    Got judgment?

  243. Re: money for Hillary’s campaign debt — Is it certain that any money we contribute now via her website goes to her? There’s no way I’m sending a dime if it’s going to end up helping Obama.

  244. My husband and I have a strong background in ethical journalism. His family owned and operated the Kokomo Tribune until 1981 when it had to be sold. I grew up near Chicago and am quite familiar with Chicago politics. I don’t agree in any way with spreading gossip, inuendos, or personal slurs. However, last night on Dan Abrams show during a discussion about Obama’s new website, the blond haired woman who is an Obama supporter issued a warning that is nothing less than bone chilling. She said and I’m paraphrasing because I don’t know how to access those wonderful clips I see everywhere,”Obama’s technical team will see to it that John McKain will rue the day he decided to attack Senator Obama.” Given the attacks that have already occured on some sites sympathetic to Hillary, I take this as a threat and I take it seriously. This type of thing, show no mercy to your opponent, eliminate him or her in everyway possible, (evidenced by the way Obama eliminated his opponents in his first run for office with a cadre of lawyers), is typical of Chicago machine politics. It is of grave concern these tactics are now being implemented on a national basis and that Obama’s surrogate feels comfortable enough to issue such a warning to John McCain.

  245. jules, on June 13th, 2008 at 1:11 pm Said:
    Re: money for Hillary’s campaign debt — Is it certain that any money we contribute now via her website goes to her? There’s no way I’m sending a dime if it’s going to end up helping Obama.

    Heidi, one of our chief insiders for fundraising, has related to use emphatically that any money you send to Hillary goes exclusively to Hillary. Especially via her website. They would have to make it abundantly clear if it was going anywhere else. However, it’s up to you to judge the site’s veracity.

  246. I’m not tempted to try to visit Taylor Marsh’s site right now, but am wondering…for those who do, once you get to Turk’s site, is that person able to capture your computer information?

  247. Kim,

    I left you a comment. I’ve never been the very first commenter on a blog before!

  248. A few thoughts from this week:
    1. Obama’s fight-the-smears website is just another propaganda machine. Think about it–he can post anything he wants there. It’s time some true investigative journalists got off their butts and really revealed the truth about him. It may take bloggers to do this since the MSM is either too lazy or not interested.
    2. I’m an Indpendent firmly committed to voting for McCain in November and am now following blogs on his and related sites. Totally different atmosphere there–lots of thoughtful policy discussions (and many Clinton supporters). I’ve started to read some of his policy papers and speeches (like his address to the small business organization this week – I’m a small business owner) and I really like his positions and can live with them.
    3. Moving the DNC HQ to Chicago is such an “in-your-face” move, I can’t believe that no one is covering this story in the MSM. Well maybe I can. There are so many stories like this not getting coverage. In today’s LA Times there was a tiny little article about Obama now stripping some of Clinton’s pledged delegates from Florida (or half-delegates) and replacing them with new ones who will support him. WHAT?? Why is no one even fighting this? Talk about hijacking the Democratic party! I’m so glad I’m an Independent at times like these.
    4. I’m hoping the McCain campaign and the Repub 527s start slinging the mud (or in this case, truth) SOON. What are they waiting for? I’m in a vengeful mood this week. I’m concerned because the Dem convention (if it’s still happening) is only 11 weeks from now. How much more damage will Obama do between now and then?

  249. regencyg,
    I have no reason to call into question the veracity of Hillary’s site, though I do find it unsettling — no, make that stomach-churning — to be greeted by a message to support Obama now.

    I do not know who Heidi is.

  250. In the late ’60s the term “black” was the one used by more politically active people, because it was the choice of black people. Those who were around then will recall the “black is beautiful” campaign for example. However I distinctly recall that in about 1968, two black women who worked with me objected the term “Black” and said they preferred “Negro.” I remember I was very surprised. So it was a transitional period.

  251. Karolina NYC: Lyndon LaRouche is a very crazy and bad man. His history is Virginia is tainted with violence. I don’t know about or care about his support of Clinton; it’s a bit like Farrakhan supporting Obama. Nobody wants that support. I am sure Clinton herself never had anything to do with LaRouche. (I am not exactly clear whether Obama had anything to do with Farrakhan, although his church did.)

    Like some others here, I agree that the Chicago corruption area is fair game as long as what we are discussing are things we get from the press and/or reliable sources, not from blogs that don’t cite sources, etc. Rezko’s criminal dealings may not have involved Obama. His trial did not bring anything out about Obama. But Obama’s choice of friends is questionable. One has choices about with whom one does business. I don’t know about his association with Ayers. I mentioned that the other day, and I may have been wrong to do so, because even though they served on boards together and traveled in the same social circles, given Obama’s clear lack of historical knowledge, he may really have had no clue about the Weathermen stuff. The Univ. of ILL is to be blamed for hiring someone like that.

    And re: Michelle Obama’s thesis. I have read a lot of that on-line. You can get substantial excerpts of it. Like Obama’s books it gives good insight into her personality. It is very self-absorbed. Indeed, the thesis is about her. I can’t imagine a senior thesis being about oneself, but I was a history major not a sociology major. Michelle seems very committed at age 22 to doing all she can for the black community. I don’t know whether she changed over time or not. I think that is an admirable sentiment in some ways, if again a little overly self-involved the way she wrote it.

    The thing we should be asking beyond policy statements is whether or not the qualities Obama has make him fit to be president. I feel pretty certain if I just met the guy and talked to him, we might not disagree very much on some issues, but the qualifications for being president of the US are huge. There is no question Obama is unfit for that, from his lack of policy initiatives, his lack of experience at managing anything, his seemingly minimal work ethic, his grandiosity and narcissism, his associations with certain people, and his absolute failure to express any outrage over the sexism directed at Sen. Clinton, which shows a larger lack of values for which he is willing to stand up.

  252. Annetoo: I recently had to produce a birth certificate. I ordered a new one on the Internet. I do have a copy of the original, but it is so old that it wasn’t clearly readable. The new one I got looks a lot like the one reproduced at Obama’s site and at No Quarter. I has a state certification that I was born in Fargo, ND, at such and such a date and time. It reads as follows:

    North Dakota Department of Health
    Bismark, North Dakota
    Certification of Birth
    This is to certify that there is on record in the Division of Vital Records, North Dakota Department of Health, Bismark, ND, the following entry of birth:

    Then it lists my name, birthplace and DOB. The time of birth is not listed. It gives my sex and my parents’ names, but not their signatures and it doesn’t list race or religion. There is a certificate number for any authorized person to look up the orginal.

    I think what happened is that, like me, BO couldn’t magically produce a copy of his birth certificate when asked. He had to order a certification, just like I did. IMHO, the entire controversy is ridiculous, just as the one about McCain was. The problem is BO’s campaign. They should have seen this coming and had the piece of paper on hand. Barring that, they should have explained that BO didn’t have it on hand and was ordering a copy. Instead they stonewalled.

  253. I’m keeping an list of references and things that should keep this forum more than honest …

    http://dakiniland.wordpress.com/obama-gaffe-and-flip-flop-patrol/

    This is a library of obama flip flops, gaffes and blunders …. please add any and use any freely!!!!

    I want this to be a good resource for those of us that want to speak truth to power

  254. Marcia: The first thing to go in a free society is the freedom of speech. Lose that, they win. We don’t even need to hark as far back as the 30’s or 50’s to familiarize ourselves for the need to an open dialogue. Your post clearly makes that distinction.
    These people are seizing power and Bush’s administration has paved the way.

  255. jules, on June 13th, 2008 at 1:34 pm Said:
    regencyg,
    I have no reason to call into question the veracity of Hillary’s site, though I do find it unsettling — no, make that stomach-churning — to be greeted by a message to support Obama now.

    I do not know who Heidi is.

    Honestly, I just click away before that loads normally. Out of sight, out of mind, or something similar.

  256. jules, on June 13th, 2008 at 1:34 pm Said:
    regencyg,
    [snip]

    I do not know who Heidi is.

    Check the blog roll to your right. It’s the first Heidi you see.

  257. Hi Seattlegal~I’m a TM expat also. I always enjoyed your posts..I posted there as Lake Lady because I screwed something up in the beginning when I registered. Anyway good to see ya.

    I left TM because of her “deadender” comment, seemed like bullying to me.@ Alice mentioned scolding..don’t know who she was referring to. I’m just too damned old to be called names for thinking for myself.

    Chimera…I have read Obama’s Audacity of Hope too. What is apparent to me is that he is skilled writer and very good at narrative.To me that is a key to understanding Obama the chipher. All that he has done so far it seems is to support the narrative he has set up himself. His purpose seems entirely self referential , follow me, I am the agent of change, I am a deep thinker, I have judgement.

    His study of community organizing seems also to be his effort at learning how to get people to follow him.Likewise his obvious study of marketing techniques, online techniques and the creepy messianic themes that threads thoughout all of these is very scary to me. I try not to be paranoid but @Politicus Finch’s observations and thoughts on the matter ring a bell in me.

    I’m afraid that we are seeing the blurring of the Parties and a rising global elite in full collusion with the corporate elite. I’m afraid that the Clintons are the last of a bred of politicians who were really in it for the people.I believe for all of the accusations of triangulation that have been aimed at them that they were trying to keep the people in the game.

    I don’t see any sign that Obama has done likewise. His behavior seems to be that of someone who wants to master the game for his own aggrandizement.

  258. http://clintondems.com/2008/06/the-dnc-pressured-hillary-an-email-from-someone-who-watched-it-happen/

    I will write in Hillary for President on my ballot but
    The part of the above article that made up my mind not to vote for the dem down line for congress and senators either is this:

    [b]”the idea that Obama isn’t going to be able to win the nomination came up while {HRC was) talking to the DNC/supers and the response she (HRC) received was that Obama brought in a lot of new Democratic voters (and ultimately, a lot of new Democratic money) and thus, while the party might lose the election in the short term (the presidential election, that is), the long term would be good, as the party would have lots of new voters and money. The belief was that even though Obama might not be able to win the presidency, the fact that he had all these new voters” would help to ensure that the party won the congressional and senatorial seats in play in November. ” [/b]

    WRONG

    I will not only write in Hillary’s name for president, based upon the further information above, I am not voting for any of the down line dem congressman or senators either and I will encourage others to do the same.

    The democratic party is imploding, (yeah the big Zero is another uniter just like Bush ) and I and many others will applaud as it does so. I and the women and men like me are through with the dem party. permanently. It’s time for a real third party for us and the millions like us if we can reach them.

    If you post at other places on the net, take that paragraph and re-post it far and wide so that everybody can know what the dem party bosses are.

    The corrupt democrats want to play with the people and the country at a critical time in our history – they deserve not just a spanking but a beating, and hopefully they will receive one.

    With friends like Charley Rangel (who I used to think so much of) who made that final telephone call to push HRC out along with the 23 Super Delegates on the conference call, who needs enemies!

    May I suggest that all who care to have HRC as President make a call to a few of those Super Delegates, maybe those in your state and let them know how YOU WILL NOT VOTE TO RE_ELECT THEM nor for anyone in the Dem party nor ever send them one penny ever again. It would be wise of them to change their vote back to HRC.

    https://www.lobbydelegates.com/

    Mad as hell and not going to take it anymore,
    If we feel this way imagine how Hill must feel.
    K.
    Party Unity My Arse

  259. READ THIS…..Seems an editorial in UK is feeling the heat to :

    Here is: hope it’ll work at: http://www.spectator.co.uk/melaniephillips/771896/princess-obama-derangement-syndrome.thtml

    Or, try this:

    http://www.spectator.co.uk/melaniephillips/771896

  260. Tim Russert just died

  261. I’m sure someone will blame it on Hillary.

  262. Fox News found it in its putrid little heart to associate Michelle Obama with “Obama’s Baby Mama”

    I knew damn well the sexism wouldn’t stop with Clinton, and that the next target would be Michelle Obama. Protesting the sexism is not about Senator Clinton, it is about ALL women. It is about the fate of any woman who dares speak up. I don’t plan to vote Obama but I sure as shit am not happy about the racism and sexism directed towards them.

    Since the media got away with with Clinton sexism, prepare to be forcefed a foul admixture of racism and sexism these next few months, one that will disgrace our nation.

  263. Denise –
    Speaking as a resident of Western New York who is familliar with Rep. Higgins and Slaughter and their staffs, I can tell you that they were STAUNCH Clinton supporters and remained with her until after June 3, but just before her speech that Saturday.

    I am all for going after those who supported Obama, but personally feel the need to go after those who were with him from the beginning. There has been some mention about an “Operation Poison Coattails” that would focus on defeating all the so called Dems who announced early for Obama. Does anyone know if there is a complete list out there yet?

  264. J. Kelligesq

    Again, speaking as someone who works for the Democratic Party in New York State I beg you to distinguish between those who have been part of the Obama-mania and those who were/are with Clinton. This is a very dangerous and uncertain time for Clinton supporters in the party. If people are going to be undiscriminate in their destruction, Obama wins, even if he loses. Think of it like chemotherapy – we want to take out the cancerous cells but keep the healthy tissues alive, otherwise the whole organism dies.
    I would like to see flaming defeat for the Obama supporters, starting with Dean, Brazille, etc on down through the local parties. After that we throw them out and re-build the party under the leadership of the Clintons.

  265. DJ,

    thanks for those links to the English newspaper articles. More than enlightening.

    And where is our MSM on the same subjects??

    Guess the only way this info is going to get out in the US is to email it to McCain or some republican rag belonging to Murdoch

  266. Shane,

    I am a member of the Democratic Excecutive Committee in my county and a precinct co-captain.
    Ive been involved in working my arse off to have dems elected for 35 years.

    You say: After that we throw them out and re-build the party under the leadership of the Clintons”

    Hill and Bill have been deepsixed by their own party and colleagues. The Zero has made sure to take all power in the party away from them.

    We hve been trying to re=-build the party from within for years…there is no rebuilding a tottally termite eaten subterranean structure.

    They are corrupt as the latest moves show, I think they’re going to be very surprised when they find out who this Reagan lover is. This guy is not a change for the better. the party thinks it will capitalize on a youthful black guy and his following….”money and new membership” -yeah for how long.? while they throw over the long faithful party regulars.

    We dont have two parties anymore , we have one party and they might as well be called the demopublicans or the rethuglocrats.

    there is no throwing out — too ingrained

    Their first duty , sworn duty, which we elected them for in 2006 and gave them majority to do, was to impeach Bush Cheney who have destroyed the foundations, law , Constitution and Bill of Rights and the treasury of this country. Pelosi , the Judiciary, the house and the senate where we have majrities. No soap. Stop the war and bring the kids home. No Soap

    You know why? Because Pelosi and those dirty dogs figured out if they let it go on right up to the election, democrats could win – what the hell – so 20,000 kids lost their legs and arms and 4000 died. The same reason Pelosi keeps saying impeachment is off the table – but there was enough time to investigate baseball which is certainly more important than the rule of law and the Constitution.

    They have an obligation to the people, and the country- not an obligation to the party and re-election, which is the only thing they care about.

    At some point the people have to take back control of this government and make those people in DC accountable. They haven’t listened in the past and continue not to listen now. THERE HAS TO BE ACCOUNTABILITY.

    This is the time. There will never be another time like this – either they put Hillary back where she belongs or they continue to self destruct. And I’ll be happy to add my nail to their coffin.

    K.

  267. Might want to check this out, its sounds like its direct from The Democratic Party!
    http://goodtimepolitics.com/2008/06/13/holding-endorsement-of-obama-cause-he-may-be-connected-to-terrorist/

  268. No, it sounds more like it comes from the KKK.

    And his race has nothing to do with why Hillary democrats dont support him so I dont think you need to post any more of that stuff here

  269. Mawm, on June 13th, 2008 at 3:47 pm Said:
    Tim Russert just died

    Mawm, I just heard and I’m in SHOCK. He just literally dropped dead – I’m still trying to absord the news.

    May God & all of you reading forgive me for saying this, but the first thing I thought was God sure doesn’t like UGLY, first Ed Kennedy’s diagnostic, now Tim Russert.

  270. Today’s Gallup poll had a smaller spread:

    Although Obama’s three percentage point advantage is statistically significant, it is down from the 6- to 7-point leads he had in Gallup Poll Daily tracking reports on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday of this week.

    According to the latest results, based on Gallup Poll Daily tracking interviews from June 9-10 and 12, a sizeable 10% of national registered voters are either undecided between the two major party candidates for president (4%), or say they will not vote for either (6%). This is the highest uncommitted percentage Gallup has seen since it launched daily tracking of an Obama vs. McCain race in early March.

  271. I forgot to say the poll had Obama 46%, McCain 43%

  272. Karma, RD. nailed it. that’s the thing that will be the haunting in this election—— too much disrespect — it’ll be interesting to see how they try to wriggle out of that—ps: Larry made the LAT in James Rainey’s column also guess what a seed from Masada just germinated–of a date palm from I think it was 60 BC. It’s called Methuselah—
    sounds like what just happened with pumapower, germination of a healthy part of the Democratic Party— they say they want to make medicines from that seed RD– I thought of you & your job–wouldn’t that be cool?

  273. You guys are fake supporters of anyone! That page I post the address to was from a Tenn newspaper and was said by no other than a democrat! Which I am a democrat, but will not vote for Obama! You people will fall down at his knees before November!

  274. Goodtime–yeah–right. I’m on my knees for Barry. He’s The One. It’s official. Oprah said. I ain’t no “fake supporter” of anyone–I support whom I chose. If I wanted fake support, I’d support Barry, because I think he’s a phony, flimsy excuse for a man and THE WORST candidate possible for the Democrats. I pray something huge will happen before Aug. and he has to drop out.

    And at the heart of it? He may well be a black racist. At the very least–an ugly opportunist and willing to do ANYTHING to ANYONE to get what he wants. To support him would be fake. But on our knees? C’mon. Is that what you do at political rallies? enough….I know…don’t feed the trolls…

    RD–you hit it on the head AGAIN. Great piece!

    “Or realize that the side effect you got from the last drug you took was noted by doctors over the past couple years but that the FDA didn’t have the resources to sort through the adverse drug reaction reports and enter them into a database.”

    Speaking of which–I know the FDA/Pharma lost a HUGE cash cow when it was discovered that Hormone Replacement Therapy not only DIDN’T help protect women against heart disease, certain drugs like Prempro actually INCREASED a woman’s risk of heart attack & stroke.

    Slightly different.

    So what to do…what to do….

    I know!

    Let’s overexaggerate the risk of osteoporosis to post-menopausal women and if every woman over 50 took our drug? Cha-ching! $$$$$$$$$$$$$

    So the “new” cash cows are the drugs like Boniva, Actonel, Fosamax, etc….

    If these Osteo drugs help some who truly have the disease or had certain treatments that increased risk–fine. But ladies–BEWARE–read up on these meds before your doctor just writes up & rips the pretty white paper of necessity for you. It’s the new HRT…I swear.

    My mom took just ONE tablet–within days, she was having excruciating pain in her thumbs and elbows and other joints. Oh, yeah–and nothing like horrible GI distress to go with it. Her own body–which usually doesn’t lie and respond to commercials to “Ask your doctor…”–was telling her to get that crap OUT of her body. Low and behold–this wasn’t some fluke, rare occurence.

    I’m convinced Osteo’s are the NEW “must-take” drugs for all older women that haven’t been given a TRUE safety test. Further, the FDA isn’t protecting women and instead, their priority is getting these drugs on the fast-track to get to market/into women’s medicine cabinets before the next prez takes over. Remember–Pharma has 3 lobbyists for every member of Congress.

    Sick.

    Just some food for thought and again…RD brings up a very on-target point. Whatever happened to consumer protection? My God–if it wasn’t the pet food, it was the onions. If it wasn’t the lead-based paint on kids’ toys, it’s the plethora of dangerous drugs. Now, tomatoes. Anyone at the wheel? Even in Crawford? Can’t someone just PRETEND to care?

    Truly sick–but just be careful. And be wary of any doctor who poo-poo’s your concerns about these Osteo drugs–read up on them! Their safety profile is pretty frightening–and that’s what they’re admitting to. And there may well be natural ways of preventing OP without paying out the ying-yang and exposing yourself to serious side effects of these Rx drugs. Shit–I got my mom some calcium complex thing at the Health Food store and make her lift weights, take walks and most importantly–get OFF those scary f’in drugs! They’re frightening. Oh, and grossly expensive. Gotta pay Sally Field for her endorsement deal…

    Sorry it’s not totally political, but somewhat.

    Ugh…finally took down my Hillary yard sign today–I’m sick, depressed and I’m hearing from known REPUBLICANS things like, “Wow–I wish that Hillary Clinton was still in the running. These other morons just don’t do it for me–I don’t get it and don’t want to vote for either one of them.”

    Yeah–you and the rest of the world, excluding the DNC & MSM. Join the club.

    God–isn’t there ANYTHING WE CAN DO beside just take it? I don’t want to wait until 2012–I want Hillary NOW and I still think there’s another shoe to drop here, soon. Can’t the “October Surprise” happen in July?

    Can’t we promise “There will be blood!” if WE don’t get OUR way? After all, the nomination was TAKEN from Clinton.

    Bleck–what a depressing summer. I know, I know–there are many things to feel blessed about. But man–I was SO looking fwd to 2008. That was the year. No more milk-toast, cold fish candidates and we would finally have a candidate in Hillary we could be impassioned about, inspired by, and we knew we could trust her to DO SOMETHING while President besides just take care of her crony buddies who got her elected. Because the people who did that were THE VOTERS. We’d finally have a president who cared and with a woman–focused on the job at hand.

    Couldn’t you just see (in his wildest dreams) Barry taking his “homies” (the Marin Wine Club + Oprah + Rev. Wright + Father Pfleger, et al) all on Air Force One just to tool around and be cool…”WE OWN THE F’IN WORLD…HA HA HA HA HA!!!”

    Ah, yes–then someone shows him the paper showing McCain is the president, unless The Bombshell dropped and Hillary is asked to step in. Could happen. Find that Bombshell–we all know it’s out there. The trick is to get it before August. I just know it’s out there–some scandal, some ugly truth, something he has teams working to keep quiet. Someone will talk, something will break.

    One can hope, anyway….

    Everyone–have a GREAT Father’s Day weekend. Seriously–enjoy it and trust that things WILL work out.

  275. (Sorry–needed to vent)

  276. For those who wish to stay together in a long term commitment to the ideals and rinciples that Hillary Clinton has spent a lifetime promoting, http://Together4Us.com offers access for activists, funders, students, policy-makers and ordinary people to come together in support of each other and their goals for America. Please come to our website and join, use the code below to put our linked logo on your website and distribute our message and this code to all your network. Spread the word. We will be happy to put up a reciprocal link, your own co-branded web page on our site, or your own blog.

    Thanks so much,
    Gretchen Glasscock,
    Together4Us

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