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We Interrupt to Bring You A Brief Moment of Sanity from the Supreme Court

The Supreme Court issued a historic opinion today, ruling 5-4 (yeah, you know which 4) that foreign terrorism suspects held at the Guantanamo Bay naval base in Cuba have constitutional rights under the Due Process Clause of the Fifth Amendment to challenge their detention there in United States courts.  In the decision, Boumediene, et al v. Bush, http://supremecourtus.gov/opinions/07pdf/06-1195.pdf Justice Kennedy, writing for the majority (yeah, you know which 5) declared that “The laws and Constitution are designed to survive, and remain in force, in extraordinary times.”  Kennedy also wrote that

“To hold that the political branches may switch the Constitution on or off at will would lead to a regime in which they, not this court, say ‘what the law is,’ ”

citing the Supreme Court’s seminal 1803 decision in Marbury v. Madison. 

Many of us are rightly angered by the collaboration between the DNC, the Obama campaign and the MSM in denigrating Senator Clinton both as a person and as a candidate during the primary campaign.  Many of us have decided that we cannot vote for Obama.  However, we can’t leave future Supreme Court appointments to the whim of a Republican president.  To me, creating and preserving a majority that will rule in favor of personal liberty and due process and against the Reign of the Unitary Executive is an even more important priority than preserving Roe v. Wade.   The Boumediene decision makes clear that, whoever becomes president in 2009, it is critical that future Supreme Court appointments be subject, at the very least, to the confirmation power of a Senate with a working progressive majority.  So whatever you do with your presidential ballot, I implore you to support and vote for Democratic Senatorial candidates in those states where Senate seats are at stake.   You don’t have to give money to the DNC; just find out which Senate seats are in issue and support the Democratic candidates’ campaigns directly. 

 

249 Responses

  1. Amazing moment of sanity alright.

    I can understand your wavering on this. I think we are all still in shock at having apparatchix take over our nomination for us to ensure that we get their ‘noble’ choice of candidate.

    Have you read Paul Lukasiacs diary on the RBC selective disenfranchisements this morning?

  2. litigatormom,
    I think I remember you from FDL. Is that right?
    Regardless, this is a to-the-point post.
    Thank you! Thanks especially for “So whatever you do with your presidential ballot…”

  3. Hear, hear.

  4. Given the current candidate choices we have, I suggest that it would be better for the court to have McCain with an adversarial Congress than to have Obama with a friendly Congress.

    Obama has not demonstrated no adherence to Democratic values. It’s better to have no new appointments for the next four years because the Congress rejects all of them, than it is to have Obama choosing nominees and the Congress blessing them.

    Can you say DNC-Chicago?

    The court as of today has become a reason to NOT VOTE for Obama.

    But I agree, we need divided government. Vote for senatorial Democrats.

  5. Litigatormom,

    I’m so excited. Does this mean we definitely have Habeas Corpus back? What does this do to the the Military Commissions Act? Is the whole thing unconstitutional now?

  6. I am beginning to get chilled to the bone with regard to any choices Obama makes. I respect your position, but I am not up to forfeiting my vote for this fraud.

  7. Oh, I hate having a tiny editing window with no preview. I’m going to start composing my comments in a text editor and then pasting them here.

    Anyway, my corrections from my previous comment:

    First paragraph “I suggest it would be better for our Supreme Court picks”

    Second paragraph: “Obama has demonstrated NO adherence to Democratic values”

  8. Hi litigator. Good news indeed, and it only took them how many years to reach this decision?…

    SC blackmail?

  9. 1. dwwenz: yes I used to post at FDL.
    2. Teresa and Pat Johnson: I am not urging anyone to vote for Obama in this post. I too am annoyed by the “Roe extortion” meme going around. To me, due process and personal liberty are an even bigger issue than Roe, but given that Obama was initially willing to consider voting to confirm Roberts — who dissented from today’s decision, saying that the majority’s decision would result in “more American deaths” — I wouldn’t bet the farm that Obama’s judicial picks would be so much better. That’s why I think that it is critical for us to ensure a real liberal Democratic majority in the Senate, so that whoever becomes president next year, so-called “qualified” judicial nominees with fancy credentials but without any understanding or appreciation for the separation of powers are not confirmed.
    3. Bostonboomer: I haven’t read the entire decision carefully, but the decision invalidates the provisions of the Military Commissions Act of 2006 that stripped the federal courts of jurisdiction to hear habeas petitions. I will update this later — my daughter graduated from high school today, and I still have family here. I just was so excited to hear about the decision that I had to read it quickly, and then wanted to post here.

  10. A wonderful Humanitarian decision on the part of the Supreme Court. As a Democrat going Republican Roe v Wade is one of my biggest concerns for women. I wanted Hillary Clinton to preserve those rights and I knew she would put Justices in place who would. I am against Obama’s stance on Abortion. I like the original way Roe looked when it was originally passed. As one of the billions who had to have an abortion once, I am very concerned about the Republican stance on this as I move to the other side. This election primary has shown it’s feelings regarding women to be minimal at best. I would hope that republican women would come forth and discuss abortion with democratic women — you can do that at my place if you want. It’s a PUMA sort of thing between women that is very important to discuss right now.

  11. And a fine moment of sanity it is.

    The SCOTUS has remembered its spine (or at least its institutional prerogatives).

    Would that Congress could do the same.

    Perhaps all it needs is the provocation of another bad President.

  12. I’m with Pat, I don’t trust the appointments O would make. After all, with his background of past associates, I feel comfortable saying that if he didn’t have bad judgment, he would have no judgment at all.

  13. Many of us have decided that we cannot vote for Obama. However, we can’t leave future Supreme Court appointments to the whim of a Republican president.

    The obvious answer, of course, is it’s not too late. Dump Bambi and nominate Hillary, otherwise, you bots will run the risk of leaving future SCOTUS appointments to the whim of a Republican President.

  14. Litigatormom,

    Thanks so much for interupting your celebration to tell us the news. Congratulations to your daughter!

  15. With my fingers crossed I think of David Souter and Earl Warren.

  16. WOW – this is great news; a beam of light in this great time of darkness.

  17. OT, but Politico has an article up today , “Obama Is Moving
    DNC Headquarters to Chicago”. Like somebody on NQ said, this is getting like Tammany Hall.

  18. SM: It is getting a little dark isn’t it? I thought it was just me.

  19. “So whatever you do with your presidential ballot, I implore you to support and vote for Democratic Senatorial candidates in those states where Senate seats are at stake. ”

    Absolutely. Prepare a large Dem majority for when we can get something done, in 2012.

  20. I’m not voting for Obama or anyone who endorses him, and I plan to work actively to get rid of any and all that I can.

    This decision actually makes it easier for me to vote against them. With habeus corpus now reaffirmed, there’s no real danger the a precedent will be overturned. Ditto with Roe v. Wade.

    The whole SCOTUS blackmail is just another part of the thug tactics of the Obamabots. My conscience is clear.

  21. Pat Johnson, on June 12th, 2008 at 4:46 pm Said:
    SM: It is getting a little dark isn’t it? I thought it was just me.

    It’s awful. But this SCOTUS news did bring a smile – at least we’re seeing SOME level of justice.

  22. Teresa: I think you are spot on with your statement, “Given the current candidate choices we have, I suggest that it would be better for the court to have McCain with an adversarial Congress than to have Obama with a friendly Congress.”

    Given the abysmal critical thinking skills demonstrated by many Obama supporters, I have greater confidence that Obamites will display greater caution in accepting a proposal from McCain than when that same proposal comes from Obama.

  23. pat: its getting alittle dark here too…literally. we have a raging forest fire in eastern nc and the smoke is just now reaching the raleigh area (its hundreds of miles away). It is smoky and smells like burning….very sinister feeling

  24. gary: I’m in Durham, and the bull city has an oddly satanic look and smell from all the fires. I blame it on the fact that the prince of darkness was in town the other day.

  25. NCEmily, on June 12th, 2008 at 5:06 pm Said:
    gary: I’m in Durham, and the bull city has an oddly satanic look and smell from all the fires. I blame it on the fact that the prince of darkness was in town the other day.

    Ozzy Osbourne

  26. NCEmily—LOL I didn’t think of that!

  27. Regency, no the precious himself was here on monday….

  28. Let’s not forget this became an important judicial isssue because the dems in Congress allowed this awful legislation to pass. Pelosi and Reid need to be replaced.

  29. Hey Everyone:

    I was reading you guys all day. I don’t post when i’m at work. Regarding polls, i think we all know the magic number is 50%. Neither Barack or McCain is at that number from what little I’ve seen. I don’t follow it too much. I would think that Kerry and Dukakis were over 50% at this time in their elections. Bill Clinton was the bottom of three until Perot had his meltdown.

  30. @Teresa, 4:12 PM

    “I suggest that it would be better for the court to have McCain with an adversarial Congress than to have Obama with a friendly Congress.”

    You’re right. But you misspelled “bought and paid for.”

  31. On another note, I think we should all stop buying into the stories about secret tapes and funky birth certificates. This is clearly a pattern with them. They get all their enemies worked up and then nothing happens. It’s psychological warfare. And having the Cheetos release the birth certificate proves how far out of tough the obama campaign is with the general public.

  32. I am taking time off for awhile. The “darkness” is overcoming my mood. I feel that something is happening out there over which we have no control. It is even more distressing because of the unconditional sense of euphoria at the mention of Obama’s name from his supporters. Keeping Hillary’s name off the first ballot of the convention is shocking. The woman won more popular votes! Moving a large portion of the DNC to Chicago adds another dimension to my unease. No outcry from party leaders on either count. What is going on?

  33. Pat Johnson – I’m sending you cheer up angels.

    Stay strong. I’ve been to dark places too. You’ll get out of the blackness. Time is on your side. Yes it is.

    Love,

    Arabella

  34. Pat

    Somehow you will find a way to just roll with this. Maybe, you can feel like me: liberated from the bonds of a party.

  35. Pat

    The trolls read comments like yours and smile. That is what they want. We are the happy warriors. We are the Resistance. We are the people. The DNC is a business. Remember when John McCain was given the keys to the RNC? It’s the same thing. And for five months he can be king of the DNC and when he loses then that will be that.

  36. Pat, don’t stay gone too long. You crack me up. your posts are such a great contribution here. I understand though, I’ve had my moments too….we’ll always be here for you….and don’t forget we DO have control. We’ve got them shaking in their boots.

  37. Let’s have a party WHOOOOHOOOOOO!!!!!!! Anybody got some music???

  38. I will support ONLY the ones that stood with Hillary till the end. All who drank the Kool-Aid and smoked the Obama bong before the primaries were over WILL
    be voted against. Yes, I will burn the village in order to save it. Having a D after your name does not guarantee my vote, actions do

  39. Great post, litigator mom. I especially like the point you make about the dangers of a Unitary Executive. Looking at the big picture is important. Reading about Marbury vs. Madison – just seeing the words – reminds me of our country’s long struggle to maintain the Rule of Law . We must focus on a strong Senate to keep bad nominees off the bench.

    I sometimes get boged down in the travails of this campaign. Setting my sites on something higher is an inspiration.

    Litigatormom, you are one of the people who bring clarity in these dark times. I enjoy reading the comments here because the voice of reason and common sense rings out clear as a bell.

    The humor, the wit, and the company at Confluence is extraordinary. I rely on all of you!

    GO PUMA!

  40. As important as it is to vote expand the Democratic majority in the Senate to prevent the federal judiciary from moving further to the right than it already has, it far more crucial to have a Democratic president.

    Constitutionally, the U.S. Senate occupies a prominent role in the nominations process because of the advice and consent clause. But practically speaking presidents tend to get their way on a lot of nominees especially Republican ones, including ultraconservative nominees.

    Even casual observers of the judicial nominations fights can attest to the fact that the Bush administration has packed federal district and appellate courts with wing nuts despite having at times to contend with a Democratic majority in the Senate.

    Please remember that even Democratic Senator Pat Leahy, the current chair of the Judiciary Committee, voted for Roberts.

    The Supreme Court is just the tip of the iceberg. If McCain becomes president there will be more not just more Alitos and Roberts’ on the court, but also more nominees like Leslie Southwick, who has a well-known anti-labor, anti-choice, and anti-environment record.

    And guess what? McCain sung his praises to curry favor with his base. And if president he will do as promised and look for more “clones Alito and Roberts.”

    But it wasn’t just McCain who helped ensure Southwick sailed through, Dianne Fienstein, a Democrat with a very safe seat, voted to confirm him too.

    Say what you want about Barack Obama, but he voted against Roberts, Alito, Southwick and all the rest of those rightwingers.

    Thus, the importance of November is to ensure that these fights don’t come up again. If we want to make sure the courts are fair and independent. We have to have a Democratic president.

    Period.

  41. ignore the tapes and the birth certificates. focus on getting hillary or mccain elected. please!

  42. Let’s not forget this became an important judicial isssue because the dems in Congress allowed this awful legislation to pass. Pelosi and Reid need to be replaced.

    Absolutely. We not only need more Dems in the Senate, we need House and Senate leaders with SPINES. Reid has been a pathetic Majority Leader. Pelosi not much better.

  43. blah blah blah

  44. Thank you pragmatist. I think those of us on here are above rumormongering. we are realists and pragmatists.

  45. I don’t trust Obama on judges at all, not after meeting with the Religious Right “in private.”

  46. KUT: it far more crucial to have a Democratic president.

    Do you know where we can find one? ‘Cause it ain’t that guy meeting and praying with the Religious Right “in private.”

  47. Frankly, I would rather have Sandra Day O’Connor than a Lawrence Tribe as a justice. The supreme court argument is a waste of time for me.

  48. I don’t trust Obama on anything to do with the “Unitary Executive” after seeing how authoritarian his campaign has been, and how anti-democratic as well.

  49. Thanks for the reminder, Pragmatist.

    Did you see No Quarters’ announcement about the PUMA party.

    The PUMAs are growling and prowling.

    And multiplying too.

  50. No Quarter on PUMA:

    Pagan Power wrote the post. Great puma phote.
    Check it out.

    We are mighty!

  51. bravo bravo bravo-here here here-I have been saying this for days. Even though the Obama wing and the Clinton wing have gone our seperate ways at the top of the ballot, we can no must work together to ensure a strong majority in the house and senate.

    When Confronted by an Obamist I always tell them:
    “my vote for president is not up for discussion nor debate. I am more than willing to assist you in increasing the democratic majority in the senate and house. as weall have a vested interest in keeping anymore Alito’s,Thomas’ and Scalias of the bench.”

    If they refuse I hit back with well now look who is cutting off their nose to spite their face.

    I hope on this one thing all progressives and pragmatist agree.

    Fuzzybeargville

  52. hlr–If you’ll pardon me saying so, “amen.”

  53. Oh remember Justice Sutter was appointed by bush’s father who’s politics is closer to McCains than Bush Junior.

    Fuzzybeargville

  54. Sorry. I cannot vote for any associated with the Democratic Party right now – aside from Hillary. I don’t associate with people who deliberately will put our country in jeopardy for their own personal gain, likes, dislikes or personality conflicts. Real men and women, put that aside.

    if we don’t give them the message that we mean business, we are telling them (the Democratic/Autocratic leadership, that it’s okay to do what they do.

    One of the ways to assure that are voices are heard is not to vote Democratic even in the Congressional/Senate races.

  55. Obama is not a Democrat. I’m not sure what he is, but he has trashed every principle I thought the party stood for. Why would I believe he would make good SC picks? All I have seen from him is bad news.

  56. The current Yahoo Headline is:

    Obama Campaign: Wife Never Used the Word “Whitey”

    Interesting they would respond to that story. I didn’t think it was anything the press was paying attention to. Weird.

  57. Ooo, fuzzybear –

    Great response. I’m gonna remember that one.

  58. I support the my Dem politicians who support me. Luckily, I can vote for all of them with no problem.

    I won’t vote for Obama, but I won’t give up the power of my vote.

    PUMA POWER

  59. Not that I think the tape exists. I don’t. I just didn’t think the story warrented response. It seemed to have died down to me when no tape showed up.

  60. He has hijacked the dem party just as bush/cheney hijacked the repub party . It appears we are helpless unless .. .. look at how he plays everything so safe .. he makes me sick, such a coward ..

    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0608/11041.html

    forgive me if you have all ready read . I just saw it .. I am disgusted .. moving to Chicago huh ?? .. remember that eve. when the front page of huffblow splattered with .. “its BOs party now ” .. .

    I’m sic – . he is bush lite .. and the so called dems are going along like sheep blinded to the slaughter ..

  61. Arabella – Did you see No Quarters’ announcement about the PUMA party.

    I’m going to be a wet blanket. You’ve been warned.

    What I see is a group of people advertising that they’re available for interviews and focus group studies.

    That’s no different from TM offering up her services in the WP.

    I would also be suspicious of PACs with no trail. For example, here are the FEC filings for WomenCount. Legit.

    ‘New parties’ or a PAC sound empowering, but if you want to make a difference, put on some comfortable shoes and starting talking to your neighbors.

  62. This is getting really upsetting. I’m finding more and more people unwilling to help Hillary pay of her 30 Million in campaign debt. Repeatedly we’ve been given assurances that donations made directly to her will only go to her, but no one listens. And now it’s being held against her that she has to campaign for this guy. How is this fair? We’ve known she would have to do this all along and now we’re villifying the one we want to nominate for playing the role she must play to keep her head above water?

    Are we that easily turned or were we never truly loyal to her in the first place?

  63. I saw that about the ruling today at about 6:00 in the morning .. It was the best news I’ve heard in weeks ..

    oh anyone have an update re: the bill in the senate on spying on Americans ..?? – did they put it on hold ?? .. I think maybe they did … not sure ..

  64. and you all saw this ?

    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0608/11041.html

    it seems that can be put to rest now .

  65. Here is the pumapac statement of organization. You decide if you want to send this individual any money.

  66. I would like to disagree with KUT, who says having a Democratic president is all important for the SCOTUS. First, President Eisenhower selected Earl Warren as chief justice. Justices often change while on the court, while others, like Scalia, remain ideologues. David Souter was appointed by George Herbert Walker Bush. Secondly, nominees to get defeated. Robert Bork went down in flames thanks to a vigilant Senate. Other nominees in history have had very tough confirmations, and seats have sat vacant for long periods until a president gave up and made another appointment–let’s see, does anyone remember Harriet Miers? So actually, presidents can be defeated in their choice of nominees, and nominees can change their tunes once they are on the court.

    As there have only been two Democratic presidents in 40 years, Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton, but Roe v. Wade survives, cut back but functioning, it is unreasonable to assume that one more SC appointment will undo it. When huge public precedents are overturned, like Brown v Board undid segregation, there is usually revolution brewing. When other major but not so well known precedents are overturned, most of the public doesn’t know and they concern things like Scalia’s victory in getting the 10th amendment taken off the “nothing but a truism” table.

    McCain is not likely with a Democratic Senate to appoint some crazed conservative ideologue. He may have to appeal conservatives while he is running, and he is conservative, but he is not a neocon and he doesn’t seem like the kind of candidate who wants to bomb us back to the stoneage with barbaric decisions from the court.

    Boumediene is a great decision, and a relatively conservative court made it. Yes, it was 5-4, but that is better than the plurality decisions (think about Bush v. Gore which was 3-3-2-2) that we saw from Rehnquist.

    We do not need Obama to preserve Roe, so don’t run scared!

  67. Maybe a little Julia Sugarbaker will cheer some of us up. Imagine us as Julia, Howard Dean as Marjorie Lee Winnick, and Hillary as Suzanne:

  68. regencyg: now it’s being held against her that she has to campaign for this guy.

    I’m not sure what you mean by this — who is doing so?

    I will say this much — the press has implied that she will have her debt paid off (or at least assistance) if she campaigns for him. We have no way of knowing what’s really going on, so people use their powers of observation.

  69. Briana: from your article/link

    ” I will take what comes my way, but I will never hurt innocent people.”

    No heat in the winter? chuptza!

  70. Julia is my idol. I’ve loved and adored her since I was a little girl. I used to say that I wanted to be her when I grew up. I still do.

  71. Pat Johnson, on June 12th, 2008 at 5:21 pm Said:

    “Keeping Hillary’s name off the first ballot of the convention is shocking.”

    Ok what have I missed? Did something happen today?

  72. I don’t think it’s my duty to help pay down her debt. If her campaign made bad choices in spending that is on them. I did my part during the campaign.

  73. We are the Julia Sugarbakers of the former Democratic party.

  74. hlr, on June 12th, 2008 at 6:23 pm Said:
    regencyg: now it’s being held against her that she has to campaign for this guy.

    I’m not sure what you mean by this — who is doing so?

    I’m beginning to see an odd amount of antipathy from some of her staunch lay backers because she is willing–as she has always said she is–to campaign for him. They are refusing to contribute to her to help pay down her debt. Now, don’t misunderstand me, anyone has the right to do whatever they want with their money, but it seems a little disingenuous to say that you won’t contribute to Hillary if she backs Obama even though she has always said she would if it came to it.

    It feels a bit like divide and conquer is succeeding. Let’s hold Hillary up to an impossible standard and see if she succeeds.

  75. More on my mother’s Obama flyer:

    “Our moment is now. I don’t want to spend the next years or the next four years re-fighting the same fights we had in the 1990s”

    Hmmm. Which fights would those be? Raising taxes on the rich? Attempting to allow gays in the military? Protecting social security? Can someone tell me wtf he is talking about?

  76. regencyg – I’m beginning to see an odd amount of antipathy from some of her staunch lay backers

    Thanks for clarifying. I can see your point, but unfortunately, I can see their point as well.

    The problem is that the HRC apparatus (including Streisand, Emily’s List, etc) are now part of the BO campaign, at least in public. We are not.

    How to resolve?

  77. thank you arabella,

    My kind of girl-we must remember first and foremost we are a nation of laws propagated for the benefit of the governed. If we stray from this even for a moment then we delve into the world of despotism.

    While have been given a constitution that has within itself a mechanism for change even so after 220+ years it has been amended less than 30 times.

    The first 10 amendments the bill of rights were raified within the adoption period of the constitution-they were a condition place on its ratification buy a majority of the adopting states. They are thought to be actually embodied in the “great document”.

    Even our founding fathers, knew they were not demi-gods, they were visionaries peering down the corridor of time, as i said in my letter to Donna Brazile , they accepted the constitution because they doubted their own infalibility.

    Imagine how Mr Franklin and Mr Madison would feel today as a realization of their dream of seperation of powers came forth in this great desision. To see a land where we the people finally means all the people all the time.

    Are you listening Mr Obama and Dr Dean? Ms Pelosi? Mr Rieid?

    We are the embodiement of the “Great Document.”

    Fuzzybeargville

  78. Sorry, couldn’t help myself.

    I read some of the comments at TM on swiftboating….

    I find it amusing that some of her newer readers are “advising” her what ads to promote and wich ones to “delete”…..(Postmodern Coup)….

    Heh.

  79. Another good one from TominPaine

    “IS THE DNC HEADED FOR 1968?

    Is the DNC preparing for 1968?

    No one knows if Howard Dean and the DNC are taking seriously the threat of massive demonstrations against the strong arm tactics of the DNC this year but it seems that the city of Denver is taking it seriously”

    http://tominpaine.blogspot.com/

    Upstateny , makes you want to puke no ? – .. just like bush – “see no evil ..everything is good and getting better , success will always be ‘just around the corner ‘

  80. HLR, I wholly understand. However, I’m actually starting to see “insults” if you will leveled at Hillary for her playing–at least the last time we saw her–the party song. It’s fine, truly, if that’s the way one wants to go, but it doesn’t seem, there’s that word again, “fair,” to hold that against her.

    Nevertheless, money is as money does and everyone is free not to give her a dime. Personal choices.

  81. Melanie: “Can someone tell me wtf he is talking about?”

    Does it matter? We are the ones we have been waiting for….so there.

  82. I will ask again. Did something happen today in regards to keeping Hillary’s name off the first floor ballot at the convention? Pat Johnson mentioned it in her post at 5:21. Hillary didn’t release her delegates did she?

  83. Watch out Charles, be afraid, very afraid….

  84. Regency: “I’m actually starting to see “insults”

    Over here?

  85. regencyg — BTW, I have not received anything from Hillary asking for assistance with the debt. It’s seems to me that this should be the first step.

    With respect to the insults. I’ll speculate that there are many who are very disappointed that she buckled under to pressure. Yes, she agreed that she would support the nominee. However, some people feel that this should go to the convention for, at minimum, an airing of issues. Instead, the SDs/media shut things down before the last ballots were counted.

  86. No, Hillary didn’t release her delegates. Yes, HoDean wants her to because his suga daddy said that it could save the party money if they didn’t have a convention at all.

    This is beginning to sound like Jesus Camp.

  87. Katie Couric is doing a great job on the CBS news tonight. I never watched her before. She’s #1 with me now.

  88. regency: “This is beginning to sound like Jesus Camp”

    ?

  89. Thank you regencyg.

  90. hlr, on June 12th, 2008 at 6:45 pm Said:
    regencyg — [snip]

    Yes, she agreed that she would support the nominee. However, some people feel that this should go to the convention for, at minimum, an airing of issues.

    Quick question, by holding on to her pledged delegates doesn’t she still technically have an under-the-radar way into the convention. They’re still going to vote for her. It isn’t until she “concedes”–and I mean that whole shebang–that she loses her place on the ballot. Isn’t she essentially just on ice or am I missing something crucial?

  91. UpstateNY, on June 12th, 2008 at 6:48 pm Said:
    regency: “This is beginning to sound like Jesus Camp”

    The DNC, UpstateNY. Not the site.

    Sorry I don’t always speak in full sentences.

  92. Lots of bad chi in here today.

    hlr – I didn’t mean to offend anybody.

  93. Oh, all right, regency, I was starting to worry that a pod had hatched near your computer…..

    These days I keep my flamethrower handy, just in case…. 😉

  94. Charles: “apparently I am full of hate”

    Aren’t we all?

  95. I am personally filled to the brim with hate.

  96. regencyg: Quick question, by holding on to her pledged delegates doesn’t she still technically have an under-the-radar way into the convention. They’re still going to vote for her.

    Yes, and to the latter, I hope so.

    I just exchanged emails with a friend who is a delegate for Hillary to the national convention. A swing state. The delegation chair was a Hillary partisan, voted-in, the good old-fashioned democratic way. Someone high up (a name you would recognize as a major BO supporter) forced this chair to step down and took his place.

    I don’t have a good feeling about all of this.

  97. Thanks for this litigatormom. I saw the news headline on my browser, and gave it a big “Yes!” I have a personal affinity with Gitmo. We were stationed in Guantanamo Bay for almost 2 years when I was in Jr High School so I remember it very well. We came home in the summer of 1970.

    During the day you could go down by the Northeast gate and use binoculors to look at the Cuban protrolled bunkers on the other side of the fence off in the hills. Buses of Cubans and Jamaicans would pass through every day to come work on the base. After dark we couldn’t go near the gate and the fence or you would get shot. We could also see the sandbags just before you got to the gate where they cut off the water supply in 1964, which led to them building a desalination water plant. We took short showers before the water would get too scalding hot again. Our relatives thought we were nuts when we got back to the states and would ask if they had enough cold water to take a shower. lol

    Or that we shied away from all frogs because of the poisonous spitting frogs down there that would burrow in the ground and blind our pets. Habits are hard to break. At least we didn’t have to worry about the many mine fields anymore either. Or having to swim in two special rocked and fenced off beaches to keep the barracudas and stingrays out. (I appreciate our completely safe fresh water Great Lakes even more after that)

    Still and all it was a very cool base to live on. My favorite memory is getting to watch the movie 2001 A Space Odyssey at one of the outdoor theatres. They weren’t drive-ins. They were complete movie theatres but with no walls or ceilings, complete with concession stands. To sit under a tropical sky full of stars and watch that space movie was something else, if not absolutely enchanting and awe inspiring of the greatness of our Universe.

    BushCo defiled that base. I want that prison torture camp shut down and due process. For both the prisoners and the Bush regime. Gitmo is going to need some kind of a purification ritual done to help rid it of the bad karma. I’m horrified at what they’ve done in our country’s name. And to our Constitution.

    I got into an interesting conversation with a cop when I went to Ohio to campaign. He wasn’t aware at all of what happened to Habeas or due process. I asked him to please go look it up online. It’s pretty sad when even our law enforcement is kept in the dark as is most of America and doesn’t know the extent of what BushCo really did.

  98. regency-you are correct the reason to suspend is so that the candidate maintains control of her delegates. More Importantly-I say this to stress your point- I allows her to continue fundraising to pay down her debt. I have already given her $ 400.00 for her campaign. a big part of my blue collar salary. I am waiting till payday to contribute again. Its only $ 25.00 AND IT IS CONDITIONAL ON NONE OF IT GOING TO OBAMA FOR AMERICA. If we all pitch in maybe we can make hillary stronger at the convention.

    love Fuzzybear

  99. The haka is very strong today.

  100. This is not a good year to be a voter.

  101. It is years like this one that turns people off of politics. One can get very cynical over the process. I am sorry for you regency given that this one is your first election. Try not to get too discouraged, things will work out in the end, they always do.

  102. Arabella — you didn’t offend me in the least.

    I looked at the press release, and it’s pretty clear that a few people have hired PR firms and are putting themselves out there for media appearances and marketing focus groups.

    It looks more or less like opportunism to me, not the basis for political organizing, which is less glamorous, but necessary for results.

    I’ll give BO all the credit in the world for getting people out there to proselytize on his behalf. It made the difference.

  103. Arabella, for the record, I’m not a troll, but I have a perhaps immature tendency to internalize doubt. I personally have no doubts about Hillary but I seek for others to allay the reservations I do hear around the web. ‘Tis all.

  104. UpstateNY and Melanie,

    Watch out. If you question him you’re a racist. What scares me is that if he wins the presidency, if you question him, you’ll be a traitor. At least if he sends us to Gitmo, we have habeas rights for now.

  105. hlr – That’s too bad. So many whores.

  106. hlr, on June 12th, 2008 at 7:02 pm Said:
    “I’ll give BO all the credit in the world for getting people out there to proselytize on his behalf. It made the difference.”

    And Hillary had no one at all out there to defend her with the exception of campaign staff. Very few big name politicians stood up for her. Ed Rendell was wonderful but we didn’t hear from him enough.

  107. Arabella Trefoil, on June 12th, 2008 at 7:04 pm Said:
    hlr – That’s too bad. So many whores.

    Heh.

  108. BB: maybe we will all be “racist traitors”?…

  109. regency – no worries. I’m the same way. I’m trying to do my bit to keep morale up.

    Bad chi today. Is Mars in retrograde?

  110. Arabella: you are doing a fine job at keeping morale up.

    It must be the day…..

  111. regencyg,

    I have not yet seen the anger at Hillary that you are talking about, but if you have, I believe you. I don’t approve of it. I think she is still fighting the good fight for us. Call me naive, but I think she believes going along with the Party for now is the way to keep her options open. I also think she will get help paying her debt from her supporters. I don’t want her to take any money from Obama. Until she confirms these stories, I’m not going to believe them. There has been too much disinformation.

    I sympathize with your need for reinforcement from others. It isn’t immature, it’s human. People need other people for strength and support. That is the whole point of this blog. Stick with us and don’t listen to the naysayers. We are going to get through this together.

  112. regencyg: I think this might be a very good year to be a voter. I can’t remember ever feeling so much purpose with my vote. I feel great telling the DNC where they can put the ‘new coalition’, I certainly don’t want to be part of it.

    While I still hope I can vote for Hillary, I think the DNC and obama are putting things in place to be SURE that won’t happen. I sent her a little money to help with the debt.

  113. oh darn it, I just used a word that triggered the filter.

    Mea Culpa…mea culpa…mea culpa.

  114. BB: Thanks. I like it here. Sometimes it’s the only place on the web that doesn’t send my blood pressure through the roof.

  115. Yes. We will get through this together.

  116. bostonboomer: Until she confirms these stories, I’m not going to believe them. There has been too much disinformation.

    It’ll be easier than that — fec filings will tell the story.

    There may be inter-committee transfers (GE funds to senate account) or perhaps new $2300 contributions from BO donors, or …

  117. Arabella (for Scorpio today):

    The best way to win a conflict today is by giving up. It may feel paradoxical or wrong, but if you just walk away for now, you should find that your side ends up on top in the long run.

  118. Paying off Hillary’s debt is not where our energy should be focused at the moment.

  119. Hillary is scorpio, right?

  120. ben,

    It takes 1 minutes worth of energy to make a contribution to Hillary’s debt. How is that draining our energy from other more important tasks?

  121. *is a Scorpio*

    Well, I can give up this once. I’m not terribly good at it though.

  122. bluedawgdem: yes, I share her birthday – so I don’t forget 😉

  123. Hillary’s a raging scorpio. We don’t give up and when we get revenge, it stings. I look forward to seeing the Dems get theirs in the coming months.

  124. garychapelhill-just read your support of my comment of the old DADT thread-thanks for the support.

    I really love my county I do that is why I cant stand what Obama has in store for it moving the DNC to Chicago? who does he think he is Robert Mugabe?

    Regencyg and Arabella worry not I am not worried I lived through the dark reagan years when AIDS was killing all my friends I is easy to get caught up in the dark…but then the sun comes oout and hope comes alive….for me it did in January 1992-and the Hope was real it was William Jefferson Clinton…and it was WONDERFUL!

    chin up You are stronger than you think…

    Fuzzybeargville

  125. Here’s one of my favorite quotes:

    Sherman: “Grant stood by me when I was crazy, and I stood by him when he was drunk. Now we stand by each other always.”

    I’ll stand by you when your drunk, I’ll stand by you when you’re crazy. Or vice-versa.

    PUMA POWER!

  126. blue dawg i don’t disagree with you. it just seemed like a lot of negative energy guilting each other about it.

  127. LOL I have experience with Scorpios. MY ex was a scorpio and she was so considerate and giving but she could hold a grudge forever and often did.

  128. jjmtacoma: now you have me all freaked out….

    it reminds me of the wise old martial arts instructor saying: “master your anger or anger will be your master”

  129. “The best way to win a conflict today is by giving up. It may feel paradoxical or wrong, but if you just walk away for now, you should find that your side ends up on top in the long run.”

    I agree. I’m a tai chi player. And an Aries born in the year of the Dragon.

    PUMA

  130. regency,

    How do you get a quote box to show up in your post?

  131. Hey, me too, I am a dragon….oh wait, no I am a pig…or a snake, I can’t remember….Dragon sounds cool though.

  132. Fuzzybeargville

    I love you, man.

  133. Replace my * with greater than or less than arrows.

    *blockquote* words */blockquote*

  134. Upstate,

    Is that in the chinese zodiac?

  135. Ben is right.

    We should be focused on fantasy football. The fantasy draft will be here soon.

  136. Aries/Rat here.

    I was destined to be a lawyer.

  137. I’m thinking I may have to take up Salsa dancing again. It will be more interesting than this election without Hillary in it. I could do to lose a few more pounds.

  138. Yes, but I can never remember, I love reading the zodiac in the paper mats they use at some Chinese restaurants. I think son is dragon, I am snake and wife is boar/pig.

    They always say, avoid boar…oh well….

  139. I think I’m a pony(horse)… yikes!

  140. I am an Ox. That just sounds obsurd saying it.

  141. Bo is an Ox as well. I don’t mind calling him one though.

  142. What is Big Dawg?

  143. “UpstateNY,

    BB: maybe we will all be “racist traitors”?…”

    reminds of the comic in today’s paper
    2 older voters say they’re for McCain because O is too inexperienced
    the press accuse them of voting against O because he’s black
    the voters say, “No, he’s just too green”
    the press accuse them of being bigots obsessed with color

  144. Rat is the first sign of the Chinese zodiac. This is the year of the rat, isn’t it? So myi2xqu, this is your year.

  145. If this is my year then I’m seriously screwed.

    I’d have to be grabbed up and sent to Gitmo for waterboarding for this year to get any worse.

  146. The year isn’t over yet.

  147. Remember- to dream sweet dreams tonight I will myself to do it -and they do come- dreams of the world at peace and the land renewed a mighty force of three hundred million americans working to end hunger around the world and united in the purpose of spreading freedom and oportunity …to paraphrase the great WOMAN …until all humankind has the ability to live up to their God(ess)/Creators given potential.

    Yes if we dream great things then dreams become Ideas and Ideas action and action become reality. This is what the Opposition fails to understand Hype and change are not enough.

    Yes we shall dream great dreams because riverdaughter gives us this space to do it safely.

    But I also believe in all you and in the little dream we each have to have a life where we can take part in this american adventure this great experiment.

    trhat is why I am passionate about Hillary and cannot tollerate the usurper-
    love you all fuzzybergville

  148. The Big Dawg is a Dog.

  149. I am a year of the Tiger-1962- I have lost many friends because of men like Obama so full of themselves and so able to beguile the masses-the 80’s were as I said a dark time. Bill and Hillary made those losses bearable…and I made so many friends to fill the dark places like all of you here.

    When we finally win and victory may be delayed but it is assured-it will be one mighty party-

    I want to be there with all of you…
    fuzzybeargville

  150. Please don’t let Chuck Schumer’s excellent recruiting go for naught just because the DNC are idiots. Vote Dem for Senate.

    Meanwhile, how come no one mentions the Gang of 14?

  151. but some one will have to teach me to dance….

  152. From Wikipedia –

    The Gang of 14 was a term coined to describe the bipartisan group of moderate Senators in the 109th United States Congress who successfully negotiated a compromise in the spring of 2005 to avoid the deployment of the so-called nuclear option (or constitutional option) over an organized use of the filibuster by Senate Democrats. The gang consisted of seven Republicans and seven Democrats led by Sens. Ben Nelson (D-Nebraska) and John McCain (R-Arizona).

  153. Obama must be confident the whitey tape doesn’t exist if he’s prominently proclaiming that its a lie and a smear.

    John Fund, conservative columnist of the WSJ, is still saying the tape exists though. Johnson is saying it’ll be released in the fall so we’ll find out in the fall if it really does exist.

  154. I’m watching John McCain and, love the guy, he doesn’t know his shiz where the economy is concerned. He needs to have Hillary whispering in his ear. Everybody does.

    Who the hell let the smart girl leave the contest?

  155. two states,

    What is the relevance of the gang of 14? What are you trying to say?

  156. two states I am voting Dem down ticket I hope each of us doubts our on infalibility and does that we can sort ou the obamist dems in 2010 so Hillary has her back covered and not knied by the likes of Donna Brazile Senator Reid and Congrsperson Pelosi-

    fuzzybeargvile

  157. chimera said:

    Katie Couric is doing a great job on the CBS news tonight. I never watched her before. She’s #1 with me now.

    What did she say? She got blasted last night by KO (my daughter still watches) for daring to criticize an NBC reporter who was traveling with Obama and admitted on camera that it was hard for him to be objective about Obama. She also had the temerity to suggest that HRC had been subject to sexist commentary in the press, which KO scoffed at.

    I haven’t watched Couric since her first week as anchor, but if she’s going to pick up the cudgels on this issue, I may have to tune in. Although, where was she when HRC was still in the race?

  158. That McCain actually has shown that he can reach “across the aisle”. This is the debate I’m currently having with my husband. He thinks McCain is inflexible. I disagree. But, per my handle here, we vote in two different states – fortunately.

  159. two states is a troll trying to get us vote Obama? Notice his slipping in a negative comment about John McCain…

    As Glenda the good witch said”…be gone you have no powers here…”

    fuzzybeargville

  160. I think two states would like us to vote Dem down ticket, but as I mentioned earlier I will vote AGAINST the Big Zero and AGAINST ANY DEM who supported him before Hillary suspended.

  161. so sorry two states I cant keep up you are one of us I have been saying McCain is a good guy too-my deepest appology-really

    fuzzybeargville

  162. UpstateNY: BB: maybe we will all be “racist traitors”?…

    I’d rather be called a racist traitor than be absorbed into the authortarian power of the O-borg. I’ll wear their accusations as a badge of honor.

  163. I really respect your position litigatormom. I am a litigator too. I handle a lot of civil public defense as well as represent lots of children. I agree with an earlier poster about preferring McCain with an adversarial congress over Obama and a friendly congress. I don’t make that decision lightly either.

    The bottom line is that the pool of jurists to select SCOTUS appointees from is dominated by Republican-appointed judges. Obama took every opportunity possible to disparage the Clinton presidential legacy so I doubt he’s inclined to appoint any Clinton judges to the high court. I am very disturbed by Obama’s obtuseness as demonstrated by his willingness to vote for Roberts and his scorn for those wanting a filibuster of Alito. In fact, if Obama is such a paragon of liberal virtue in jurisprudence, then why didn’t he join the Gang of 14 in the Senate?

    Any president will have to propose judges who will be acceptable to the GOP. It is unlikely that there will enough Dems in the Senate to be more independent than that. Actually, the Dems there haven’t made a very positive impact in my mind. Claiming that we should all vote for Obama to get Senate Dems off the hook for their collective spinelessness is kinda lame.

    I am amazed at the number of people (not you personally litigatormom) who take McCain at his word about judges. We all should know better. McCain is the GOP nominee of attrition, not attraction. The GOP conservative base needs the kind of rhetorical red meat he’s been handing out to open up their wallets and get energized about him. The neocons despise him and won’t be able to do their right-wing judicial voodoo anymore even with McCain at 1600 Penn. Ave. Without ant real mandate, McCain is stuck having to propose nominees that a Dem majority will confirm. I would assume that Obama, having revealed for us his heretofore unknown astounding powers of leadership, would be a prominent voice in the Senate “borking” any undesireable nominees.

    In the end, neither Obama nor McCain are anything approaching a good choice. I just think McCain is in a better position to be pressured into making better judicial selections.

  164. Hey unfortunately its to late to purge the party congressional and senatorial of all obamist. We need to keep our majority in the senate….and house. In 2010 we can root out the Usurpers under the Dome. We can begin in November to scrub the party office clean of the stench of elitism.

    Fuzzybeargville

  165. Amen newhorizon

  166. UpstateNY,

    At least after today I’ll have my constitutional right to hear the charges against me. I’m sorry to sound so melodramatic, but I share Pat’s feelings of unease about the signs we are seeing. Since when does a candidate for the nomination take over the DNC and move it to his hometown before the votes have even been counted at the convention? Why am I hearing commentators on CNN say that the General Election has started?

    I don’t recall even George W. Bush moving the RNC to Texas. What the hell is going on here?

  167. Denise W.

    I’ll vote against anyone who endorses him period. I want to see some backbone before I vote for any Democrat from now on.

  168. (sob) A troll? No no no! I just mailed off another BO solitication with “PUMA POWER” written in red ink. Besides, I was born on Bill Clinton’s bday, exactly 10 years later.

    Yes, I’m not contributing to any CT congressman who supported BO in the primary. But the Senate is the firewall to the SCOTUS, so it IS different.

  169. If I were Wexler in Broward FL and Pelosi and Ried I would not sleep well-after Obama loses the whit house. It may be another night of the long knives.

    Because they will be along with Dr Dean the face of failure of the Democratic Party, more so than Senator Obama himself….he will claim he lost because he was taken advantage of by the powers that be forced to run and he was just and inexperienced junior senator from Illinois….ROLF sorry cound not keep a str8 face on that one

    fuzzybeargville

  170. BB

    You’re right- what was I thinking? I’m with you- voting against ANYONE who endorses him

  171. I said I was sorry I get paranoid some times…two states I am so sorry -really please forgive the ol’ fuzzybear had a long day and the dentist appointment I just got back from the 7 circle from hell please (dont make me beg)-so sorry

  172. Sorry to switch topics, but we have breaking news: A letter from Tony Rezko confirms that Patrick Fitzgerald IS going after Barack Obama — in a big way.

    I have the details on my site.

  173. am I forgiven two states?

  174. BB, right you are! Both of my senators (Murray and Cantwell) as well as my congressdude endorsed Hillary. So there’s not much I can do.

    BUT, my governor (who became gov by only a couple hundred votes after a triple recount) couldn’t endorse the Barack-star fast enough. She’s lost my vote. I can’t stand teh Repub running so I wil throw my gov vote away on some goofy third party candidate.

  175. BB: I just came back from planting a few tomato plants…

    I hear you. I just cannot believe the whole O phenomenon (sp?), I really can’t.

  176. Joseph Cannon-are you serious? our nominee(presumptive as he is) may be supoena’d (sic)?

    My heart is aflutter -this could be better than Eagleton in 1972…I read abt in the history books-I was only ten!

    Our party’s New Slogan- “Change you can post a bond on”

    I knew he was a crook-but first let me check out Fox news-
    fuzzybeargville

  177. Thanks fuzzybear. I’m really new at this so pls forgive my mistakes. Wish I could give you a nice lollipop to make you feel better.

    The House is easy but the Senate is a tougher call. We may well need a Dem majority there when McCain wins.

  178. How do we get in touch with Geraldine Ferraro? Does she have and email address?

  179. Newhorizon:

    “Liberal judge” is an oxymoron. Law is by it’s very nature conservative (in the old school Barry Goldwater sense) and most appellate justices are older white men from upper-middle class backgrounds. (poor people don’t often get into top law schools which is a de facto pre-req for the bench)

    Don’t forget, Earl Warren was a politician and Thurgood Marshall came up by an alternate route.

  180. bostonboomer – Since when does a candidate for the nomination take over the DNC and move it to his hometown before the votes have even been counted at the convention?

    The donation limit for individuals to the DNC is $28,500. By marrying the DNC to his campaign, he plans on buying this election.

    I’ve long suspected (and am now convinced) that the argument HoDean had w/ establishment Democrats over funding little DNC state offices in places like Alaska instead of supporting competitive down-ticket races in ’06 was fought so that Dean could control the caucuses. Not a coincidence that these state party staffers are now part of the BO campaign. It wasn’t party-building, unless you want to call it the Obama party.

  181. Ron Paul Drops out now the neocons have no choice -swallow McCain-or maybe they will protest and vote Obama-Nahhh not their style-

    fuzzybeargville

  182. Rezko claims Fitzgerald wanted dirt on Blagovich and Obama, but says he didn’t have any to sell.

    Half that statement is probably true.

  183. Geraldine is now toeing the party line publicly.

  184. thanks two states I am new at this stuff too…I just got my first cell phone 6 weeks ago…

    I can prove I am brave I drove down the I 75 and I 4 corridors in a 20 year old Honda for 5 years w/out a cell.

    I am tuff enough to take on any obamist-and tuff enough to wait out 4 years of McCain to get My Madame President if I have to….

    Fuzzybeargville

  185. “Rezko claims Fitzgerald wanted dirt on Blagovich and Obama, but says he didn’t have any to sell.

    “Half that statement is probably true.”

    When Rezko wrote that, he was not convicted, and may still have hoped that Bushco would stop Fitz in his tracks.

    When Rezko WAS convicted, Fitz made statements clearly indicating that he (Fitz) was willing to offer him (Tony) a deal if Tony would rat out crooked politicians. Yeah, BO could pardon him some day — if he wins. Now that Rezko is going to prison, he has to ask himself one question: Just how certain can he be that McCain will lose?

  186. If obama is under investigation with reguard to rezko can that change things at the convention? or are we stuck with this dog that wont hunt?

    fuzzybeargville

  187. sorry that last sounded to republican for the 40 something gay guy-dog that wont hunt where do I get this stuff?

    fuzzybeargville

  188. Just took a peek at TL.

    Is it me, or most people posting there (comments) cannot get behind O?

    Interesting….

  189. If Obama is guilty of actual crimes (rather than bad judgment) I would hope he was smart enough to avoid a paper trail or other incriminating evidence.

    I would hope a Harvard-trained lawyer would maintain plausible deniability.

    If all the prosecutors have is the testimony of a convicted criminal like Rezko, the case isn’t going anywhere. Rezko would have no credibility because he would lie through his teeth to stay out of prison.

    They’ll need a smoking gun.

  190. Giving foreign terrorists the same rights as American citizens is an act of sanity? Why would you applaud a decision which could help enemies of America kill more Americans? What is humane about a decision which empowers mass murderers? And why do such mutants deserve to be treated humanely? This is the problem with liberalism.

  191. “That dog won’t hunt” is a Texas expression. Molly Ivins used it all the time.

  192. Laura: ?

  193. Laura:

    During WWII we tried and convicted Nazi spies and saboteurs.

    We gave them due process of law.

    The real danger of terrorism is that we will compromise our principles.

    We beat Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan without suspending habeas corpus or torturing people.

    This is the United States of America. We’re the good guys.

  194. myiq–

    Right you are. I have seen rumors that Obaa would nominate Larry Tribe. But there would be a massive debt to GOPers to pay with the next appointment.

    Overall, no matter who the president is I think SCOTUS appointments are all crapshoots. Some of the most liberal justices have been Republican appointees. Actually, Byron “Whizzer” White was appointed by none other than JFK (the new-all-over-again liberal megastar) yet became a crusty ill-tempered conservative.

    I fault the Senate one and all for Roberts and Alito, starting with the Senate Judiciary Committee.

  195. two states – Welcome!
    New Horizon – I enjoyed your comments.

    So many smart people at Confluence.

    I shall do what I can to elevate the tone here, but I fear I shall fall short of your expectations.

    Pumas strong, yet graceful in repose.

  196. Laura , check out Habeas Corpus and the Geneva Convention ..

    The thing that has made our country different and successful is that we abide by rules of law . We lose when we do not obey laws . Whether it is or prez breaking laws or anyone .. If not – you end up with dictators etc.. Check out all the civilized countries in the world .. They are governed by laws .

  197. I am thankful that lawyers keep democracy alive. All Americans should be ashamed of Guantanamo Bay and the way our current Republican and Democratic ruling class desecrated our U.S. Constitution. Kudos to the five Supremes.

  198. Luara-
    and anyone else intrested in the importance of todays ruling by SCOTUS please read my above post from 636pm l read it is as myiq2xu -we are the good guys-and we have to remember if we compromise our principles the terrorist win-it is that simple. A trial by jury of your peers is a sacred thing enshrined in our “great document”

    Fuzzybeargville

  199. Just took a peek at TL.

    Is it me, or most people posting there (comments) cannot get behind O?

    Interesting

    You are correct. The same is true at Taylor Marsh. When the Clintonistas vacate a blog, the interesting conversation comes to an end. I admire the bravery of the hold outs. Lord Haw Haw and Tokyo Rose have taken over TM, and it’s boring.

    We, on the other hand, scintillate.

  200. Arabella: I am going to nominate you for our “Morale Officer” position, a la Neelix (Star Trek Voyager).

    I mean that as a compliment.

  201. No, no, Arabella, you misunderstood me. I thought TL was going to become pro O right away. However, I see that among many of those commenting there there is stil a lot of scepticism (sp) towards O.

    TM is a completely different story…yikes.

  202. And for all our faults, we are all, even those of our opponnents camp, just trying to do the correct thing-that is why I cannot agree with the obamist but I will not demonize them eigther.

    The old addage:

    I may not agree with you but I will defend you right to make a total ass of yourself-
    Applies here too-fuzzybeargville

  203. What Bush did is unique in our nation’s history.

    We haven’t always lived up to our high moral principles, but we pretended that we did.

    Even when we violated our principles, we still acknowledged and affirmed them.

    Bush made torture official policy, and set up secret prisons he said were beyond the law.

    When he did that, he made me ashamed of my country for the first time in my life.

  204. UpstateNY, on June 12th, 2008 at 9:02 pm Said:
    Arabella: I am going to nominate you for our “Morale Officer” position, a la Neelix (Star Trek Voyager).

    So, who is Janeway? Kes? Tuvok?!?

  205. Just started reading comments. Is it true that they are not allowing Hillary on the ballot? How can they do that? Wasn’t Dean on the ballot in 2004?

    I’m confused and a tad horrified. How can this man with no experience running even a candy store turn around and tell us where to send or not send our money, somehow move the DNC to his home town, not allow Hillary on the ballot, and if the rumor is correct, cancel the convention all together?

    Where the fu*k am I?

  206. arabella thought we lost you tonight good to read you I second the morale officer we need you -BTW if ever in the small town of East Dubuque go to Mulgrews Tavern (its owned by Capt Janeways family all you trekist) they serve the coldest beer and the best chillidog and onionrings on wax paper-

    And my sweet riverdaughter we also need your words too-

    love fuzzybeargville

  207. Laura:

    The government has not yet PROVEN they are foreign terrorists — and it has admitted that many of the detainees at Gitmo are not. So far the government has spent the last 6 years trying to construct a no-lose quasi-judicial system rather than just trying the motherfrakkers and either proving their guilt, or not.

    Due process protects EVERYONE from indefinite imprisonment detention by a goverment on the basis of nothing more than unproven accusation and innuendo. If we can’t prove these guys are guilty of anything, how is continuing to detain them making us more secure?

    When we start assuming that anyone the government detains is guilty, we will no longer be Americans.

  208. Meileen: So far Hillary is still on the ballot. Howard wants her off. From my understanding, she only comes off if she concedes in the weeks prior to the Convention.

    Question, the ballots are electronic or paper?

  209. I don’t know, regency….someone in a different thread a while back mentioned H as Janeway, but since she has now dissapeared a la Kes…I do not now….

    You guys decide.

  210. Our supreme court did the right thing-I wondered when they wood I feared another Dred Scott moment on this I did….but look even in these dark times blinding rays of light shine

    fuzzybeargville

  211. know=now

  212. Upstate – Thanks so much! I love Neelix. I take that as a very great compliment indeed.

    Re TL – yes, the resistance is strong there. TM is a garbage scow.

  213. They are NOT going to cancel the convention. No way. If that is a rumor out there, it is only to suppress people planning to protest there.

  214. Thanks for the response rengencyg.

  215. Does this election cycle remind any Trekies of th episode “Year of Hell”? It reminds me of that.

    Hillary is Janeway. Bill is Chakotay. Chelsea is Kes. Terry Mac is Tom Paris. Garin is Harry. James Carville is the Doctor. Wolfson is Tuvok or 7of9.

  216. Mawm,

    The Oborg are big into suppression, eh??

  217. litigatormom.. 🙂 .. that’s what I was trying to say .. .. thank YOU . ..

  218. Wolfson 7 of 9…..????? Now I will always think of him with a skin tight outfit and high heels….yikes, why, regency, why????

    Another question who would O be?

  219. It is either assimilation, elimination, or suppression.

    We haven’t seen 7of9 yet. She has to come from the Oborg camp, rescued by Hillary. Hopefully before the convention.

  220. regencyg-you are correct she keeps her delegates until she concedes-the ballots are not paper per see (sic) ther is a rollcall of states and teritories where the votes are spoken outloud for instance the rollcall person cill rollcall the states example-

    the state of michigan-

    (at this point the leader of the state delegation will say)

    The great state of Michigan proudly casts its delagates as follows….

    that is how the roll call goes-it is usually quite exciting-I love the texas delegation there delegation is alway very bombastic before the drum roll of how their delegates are cast-

    the great state of Texas Mr Chairman the yellow rose of the south the home of the alamo….you get the Idea

    Fyi-fuzzybeargville

  221. O=Oborg is too easy….

  222. regencyg – Agreeance on the Star Trek assignments.

    Obama has a voter supression plan in place already. Part of it involves dividing us against each other. Another part involves demoralizing us so that we give up and stay home.

    Resist! Stay strong!

  223. Unless Obama implodes ahead of time, this will be the first time in decades that I will have not bothered with watching a convention. I’m lining up lots of good summer reading…

  224. Thanks too, Arabella.
    This discussion reminds me of another great old movie, A Man For All Seasons, where Paul Scofield (as Thomas More) asks his son-in-law what would happen if all the laws were smashed down and the enemy turned on him – where would he hide for cover? “No, I need the law for my own protection as well as my enemies’.” Wish I could remember the actual quote…..

  225. O is the Borg cubes and spheres. He’s just the means to an end, a namesake. Axelfraud is the Borg Queen.

  226. I am afriad roll call will not be as exciting this year unless something happens-Obama pardoning Rezko ha ha ha…that pardon was thrown under the bus…
    Fuzzybeargville

  227. This is quite a turnaround. I wonder if it has anything to do with it being an election year.

  228. axelfraud-love it hey we have a troll free zone

  229. Did you all ready see this ?? Bravo !! for her !

    UnityWatch: Hillary Student Chair Endorses McCain

    http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/06/unitywatch_hillary_iowa_chairs.php

    plus ‘he’ calls us a tight knit bunch .. Yes WE are !!

  230. “Axelfraud is the Borg Queen” heh….another skin tight outfit….oh the nightmares…

    by the way, I just found out that McCain has a son serving in Iraq? Does anybody know if this is true?

  231. pumaparty.com-i am having new p-word probs on your site would lve to post
    fuzzybeargville

  232. There are lots of Red Shirts in play. They wind up under the bus by the end of the episode,

  233. McCain has two sons serving in Iraq if I recall correctly.

  234. we are just a drop in the buckett according the oborg nation-almost all the hillary village is endorsing the dark side? OOOhhh Really?
    I think not-fuzzybeargville

  235. Two, eh? and how is O going to poo-poo that exactly?

    As I have repeatedly said, I will not vote for McCain, but if he makes it (like Lieberman did) I will laugh my ass off.

  236. I read, fuzzybear. However, tha statement was followed by a nervous “O cannot take X and Y and Z constituencies for granted”

  237. McCain is a man who knows and understands the consequences of war-unlike Bush or Obama-I believe he will be more reserved in committing troops and besidesI believe he genuinely loves our Hillary even if he doesnot always agree with her.

    As al 1/2 vote Floridian I cant wait till November when even the DNC nor Donna Brazile nor twisted logic cannot take my vote away

    Fuzzybeargville

  238. Fuzzybeargville, you are the best.

  239. Want another reason to laugh, UpstateNY? We have the prospect of Lieberman and Dodd going at each other here in CT, the Land of Steady Habits. Godzilla vs. Megalon?

  240. thanks I have been suffered through the republicans before I can take 4 more years we all can to twist a phrase of our opponents_

    “we are are the strong people they have been waiting for”
    -and yes we will lead them kicking and screaming into Hillary’s bright shining light-

    We have drank from the champagne of truth and light? can you ever go back to Barakish tap water?

    Fuzzybeargville

  241. sorry that should be Barakish Kool aid….

  242. two states Sanators Dodd and Lieberman at least Sen. Dodd I would hope have more respect for Senator Lieberman than back him into a corner and acost him like some thug-

    I dont agree with Senator Lieberman always but respect for your elders is something my momma taught me.

    Fuzzybeargville

  243. Good for the Cody and Nikki from Iowa! That was a great letter.I believe the head of the Hillary supporters organization at George Washington University also endorsed Hillary for similar reasons. I believe both Ambinder and Ben Smith carried the story when it first happened a week or two ago.

    And yes, John McCain does have a son serving in Iraq. While I disagree with McCain about many things, the war included,and have no intention of voting for him at this time,I must say it gives me pause oh his position in Iraq. He is a father and loves his son, I cannot imagine he says anything about Iraq without the safety of his own son in mind. It is just hard to accuse him of being callous towards the troops (keeping them there forever, etc) when you consider that the safety and well-being of his son rests in the balance…

  244. “my friends”, RD has a new thread above.

  245. This is also making the news in the UK…STATE OF LOUISIANA INVESTIGATION VOTER REGISTRATION FRAUD BY DEMS

    http://www.2theadvocate.com/news/politics/19754129.html

  246. When one of these Jihadis ends up shoving a bomb up your ass, I’ll be sure to tell his ACLU lawyer how much you have done to help him in his career.

  247. For those who wish to stay together in a long term commitment to the ideals and rinciples that Hillary Clinton has spent a lifetime promoting, http://Together4Us.com offers access for activists, funders, students, policy-makers and ordinary people to come together in support of each other and their goals for America. Please come to our website and join, use the code below to put our linked logo on your website and distribute our message and this code to all your network. Spread the word. We will be happy to put up a reciprocal link, your own co-branded web page on our site, or your own blog.

    Thanks so much,
    Gretchen Glasscock,
    Together4Us

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