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Thursday: Walk it back, Dr. Dean

There is a reason why PUMA is going viral.

There is a reason why Latinos are threatening to defect to McCain.

There is a reason why Fundraisers are vowing to starve the DNC beast.

There is a reason why perfectly ordinary non-politico, non-blogger voters are approaching me at company picnics to tell me they will never vote for Obama.

Not after the RBC hearing. Not after the screaming for Hillary to get out before the primaries were over. Not after the pressure on her to release her delegates before the convention. Not after the attempt to stifle her voice at the convention at all. Or calling her and her supporters racists. Or bitches. Or stupid, old, uneducated women. Or bitter working class rubes.

It’s called betrayal.

One of the things that got me suspended from DailyKos is that I wrote a diary about how the Obama supporters were behaving like a bunch of jihadis. Maybe that diary had some traction or the behavior is more noticeable now but I’ve heard and read others refer to them in that way as well. The attitude is you will submit or will be crushed. No dissent is tolerated. There is only one candidate and Obama is his name.

And here is where Howard Dean and Donna Brazile are running into problems: The party has never been an authoritarian one. The Democrats are legendary for being unable to corral its members. It is easier to herd cats than control the members of the Democratic party. Party unification for uscan not be a top down decree. This isn’t the Unification Church and Howard Dean is no Reverend Sun Yung Moon.

What we have here is Movement Obamaism, no less destructive to the Democratic party than Movement Conservatism was to the Republican party. It is an amalgamation of different factions that does not have core Democratic principles as its center. What it looks like to the typical Democrat, that loyal party stalwart, is a takeover. I don’t think Obama or his enablers would disagree with this. But they have picked the wrong party. Their analysis of demograhic trends may show younger people as considerably more tractable and more enthusiastic about following RULZ, but these people do not typically join the Democratic party. There is a reason why we have a two party system. The Republicans are into maintaining the status quo, evolving slowly, uniformity, discipline and party above individuality. The Democrats are more like the G*d Damn Independents, free thinkers who come together around their principles, not mandates. Coming together for us can not be forced. It must be based on consensus.

That is not what we have witnessed this year. What we have seen is heavy-handed, Republican inspired authoritarian tactics applied to OUR party. It was as if Dean, Axelrod, et al had a meeting and concluded, “Well, it worked so well for the Republicans, let’s see if it works on the Democrats!” The results have been predictable. The party is roughly split in half with the slightly larger half going to the losing candidate. That is the true Democratic party. Right now, they have been betrayed. They always knew that there was skullduggery but never have they seen it displayed so obviously and against themselves. And the superdelegates who were created to prevent this kind of thing from happening are going along to get along.

The party has betrayed us. It has sought to manipulate us and when that didn’t work, it used brute force. The party and its presumptuous nominee are failures. They miscalculated, cynically using the tools of authoritarianism against us and we will have none of it.

Walk it back, Dr. Dean. Better get Obama to stop ignoring those of us he *thinks* he has in his pocket so that he can be free to pursue the religious right. The number of trolls on our site has increased many fold and the messages are all carefully crafted to elicit the correct response but we’re not buying it. We know what’s going on here. You can pretend we aren’t needed but your messages to us say otherwise.

Better start fixing this problem before the convention because afterwards, our hearts will be hardened and we will follow our consciences in the voting booth. And from what I’ve been hearing, no one this year is inclined to reward a traitor.

This song goes out to all you sweeties. We know what you’re going through. But we’re not going to sign onto Obama without making him earn it. We do not subscribe to the “Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?” philosophy of the current Democratic “leadership”. Too bad for you. Whether you like it or not, you gotta marry us before we put out.

254 Responses

  1. Great start to the day. What is the sculpture at the top of the post? It’s intriguing,


  2. Movement conservatism could be called an actual movement because it was based on an ideology. What is going on here is truly a cult of personality built around an empty suit for the sole purpose (it seems) to channel government money to Wall Street and a corrupt Chicago-based political machine.

  3. wonderful article riverdaughter – I will only quibble with one statement. you talked about making Obama earn our support. sorry, but there is NOTHING this fraud…this corrupt, racist, lying, sexist candidate can do. I will NEVER support him. Also the DNC MUST be held accountable for the injustice of this primary. Silencing 2.3 million voters is reprehensible and condoning the vile, sexist treatment of Clinton by the media, not once standing up to the MSM, is UNACCEPTABLE. The dems do not deserve the white house after this. If Hillary’s not the dem nominee, I’m voting John McCain. I’ve already started contributing to his campaign.

  4. Arabella: It is a sculpture of the betrayal of Jesus from the Gaudi Cathedral in Barcelona, Spain.

  5. I agree with Davidson that what we have a is a Weberian style charismatic leader/cult of personality. It isn’t just corrupt, though, it’s scary.

    As I was surfing channels last night I came across Olbermann calling Katie Couric “the worst person in the world.” So I stopped to listen, even though I have ceased watching MSNBC. It seems Couric had the nerve to point out the sexism in the campaign. CBS news has suddenly become appealing to me. http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/06/11/couricandco/entry4174429.shtml

    Her blog has been spammed by Obamabots. We should give her some support.

    Yesterday I saw on Facebook that someone was feeling Pumalicious! I thought that was great. The pundits keep saying “older women” like a dirty word–witches and crones and hags, oh my!–and keep saying, “They’ll come back, once they realize the Supreme Court blah blah blah.” We have survived 8 years of George W. Bush. We have had no Democratic Presidents for 40 years except Carter and Bill Clinton. I have news for them. 1) Not all Hillary supporters are “older women” having a menopausal moment and 2) we can survive a McCain presidency.


  6. (peering through pre-coffeed eyes)

    Walk it back, Dr. Dean. Better get Obama to stop ignoring those of us he *thinks* he has in his pocket so that he can be free to pursue the religious right.

    I read someplace that Obama is planning some heavily religious grand opening to the convention. PLEASE someone tell me that’s wrong. Wouldn’t that just FORCE the babblers to talk about the Rev. Wright?

    Oh, sh*t — what’s it to me — if Obama’s that much in control of the convention that it actually happens, I’ll be long-gone from the Democratic Party.

  7. Actually the whopping three point bump should be a wake-up call. Great posting. I’ve also wondered if the Democratic party will collapse under the weight of the neolibs and the republicans did with their neocons.

  8. “It is easier to herd cats than control the members of the Democratic party.”

    Ain,t it the truth.

    Miau (Spanish spelling).

  9. Chatblu: Is there a three point bump for McCain? Or do you mean that Obama only got a weak reponse to Clinton’s suspension? What poll?

  10. Morning, Kbird.

    Yes, I read that too at TL. Jeralyn wonders if it is just going to be Christian or other faiths will be reflected.

    Does it matter, though? Religion and politics should not mix, as far as I am concerned.

  11. river- I went to the place that I never go to read your diary. God, that sounds like something I would say to my teenage daughter. Anyway, I started to read the comments my favorite : “Read it again carefully. It is almost openly racist.” Explain to me why we have to read it sooo carefullly if the racist part is sooooo open. We are so lucky to have you here.

  12. RD – What do the numbers mean?

  13. A couple of people have suggested that we take over the Republican party.

  14. Upstate, “Does it matter, though? Religion and politics should not mix, as far as I am concerned.”

    AND that’s the biggest reason it doesn’t belong. I’ll blame my pre-coffee brain for not saying that directly.

    My thought was that Kerry did that big Military Hoopla of “Reporting for Duty” and I think that brought to mind his past Anti-War protest of throwing his medals over the wall.

    BUT at least “Reporting for Duty” is an appropriate (if corny) metaphor. UNLIKE a religious extravaganza which would not only be wildly inappropriate — it would be impossible to please everyone.

    Also? It’s quit possible that a religious extravaganza designed by the Tone Deaf Obama would actually please No One.

    I hope he does it.

  15. Arabella, I’m not joining the Republican Party. I may have to take a leave of absence from the Democratic Party but, I’m NOT giving up on the party of Roosevelt.

  16. I thought that was sagrada familia. I’ve been there myself. There are many, many intriguing sculptures all over, and if you ever are in Barcelona do not miss parque guell. it was designed by gaudi and is like something out of a dr. seuss book.

  17. I’m sure the convention will feature a big religious opening. I see a huge cross on the podium. People will march in formation. Blazing torches. Crying spectators. At the end, Obama will climb down from the cross and people will faint.


  18. gary: yes, I think Gaudi had too many “green eggs and ham” in his day.

  19. upstateNY: yeah, with a side of mushrooms (and not your garden variety)

  20. Davidson, what a clear representation of the differences.

    One of the reason’s I could not support O was that I felt hypocritical because of my deeply heartfelt criticisms of remarks of religious leaders on the right, particularly re: Katrina, Rita, 9-11, etc. Rev. Wright sent me over the edge. Now this.

    How relieved I am to be so “determined” on this issue and not just having an hormonal, emotional, irrational outburst that I will get over.

    Loved the remark about “marrying us.” Takes me back to my youth.

    Great post. How do you think so clearly so early in am???

    Heard Rove last night say that O got about 1/2 the usual bounce.

  21. sweeties are up early today. I remember that jerk I commented on at the RBC meeting whining that he had to wake up at 9 am to try to get his guest credentials online (the horror!!!!).

  22. Tom: “There are a lot more of us than there are of you; indeed, there are almost certainly enough of us to win the election without additional help.”

    Remember that evil, baaaad Nader? He must have been part of the “old coalition”, before it even existed.

    Oh well.

  23. Tom: Great! If that’s what you and the other Obama supporters feel, then there is no reason to hang out here, right? You and the more offensive trolls can go par-tay! Enjoy your victory. Act like winners.
    Stop leaving nasty stuff in my spam filter. There is no reason any of you should ever talk to us again.

  24. Gary, it really is the Upside-down universe. I guess we will have to watch Katie Couric on CBS since Olbermann name her one of the worst-persons in the world. Could I have misjudged her?

  25. mawm, what did she do?

  26. Gary, check out
    chimera, on June 12th, 2008 at 8:06 am Said:

  27. chimera said

    The pundits keep saying “older women” like a dirty word–witches and crones and hags, oh my!–”

    It would be beautiful to see an army of middle-aged women marching on Denver in August.

    Can you imagine? The recreate68 people would be there with their bats facing off against their MOMs. We are talking pulitzer prize winning photos.

  28. This is probably spin from the McCain camp, but they’re expecting a 10 point Obama bounce in June. RCP has a 4.6 Obama lead right now.

    The McCain people also said it’ll get closer after June. Are they expecting attacks on him from 527’s or just the bounce to wear off?

    The Conventions are only a week apart this time so I don’t know if Obama can get a big bounce out of there.

  29. Anglachel links to a TalkLeft discussion about religion and politics. The commenters on TL mention a person named Kmiec (never heard of him) as a possibility for a Supreme Court nomination. It seems as if he’s a conservative catholic.

    Off topic, but I hope to hear more about Kmiec later today.

  30. I heard last night that the spread is now 47-41 Obama, up from 46-43, which would have been statistically within the margin of error. A friend who was watching Fox called me to turn to that sttation (heretofore unseen en mi casa), and Karl Rove was saying that bumps of 12 percent were much more common. Who woulda thunk it? Moi watching Karl Rove.

  31. Katie Couric just went up twenty notches!

  32. I’m not sure which is more amusing. That you (1) think you have some kind of influence within the DP or (B) are pretending your vote is somehow up for grabs this year.

    Look, everyone knows you’ll vote for Hillbama, so knock off the bullshit already. You’ll vote for who you’re damn well told to and you’ll like it. Understand? And if anything goes wrong, blame Nader. Got it?

  33. As a “political junkie” I did occassionally watch FOX for “opposition” research in small doses (all I could take) but have watched them for relief from the other insanity over last several months. Still think Clinton’s former pollster–what’s his name is an idiot but Rove has had some interesting insights. I’m brain dead stayed up all night trying to catch up on stuff.

  34. Kmeic was a big Ken Starr partisan and Clinton hater in the 90s.

    Also I believe a big GWB supporter.

    Has been on the Lehrer NewsHour.

  35. Any Democrat should be comfortably up by double digits at this point, at least, over 50%.

    Oh, well. No need to worry, everyone. Dean has this whole clusterfuck under control. Meanwhile, Obama is vetting the vetters.

  36. Posted this also at Pagan Power, after reading Heidi Li’s blog (URL at bottom of comment): PUMA should organize a campaign debt clock so that Clinton supporters can rally around paying off Clinton’s campaign debt. Perhaps a deadline of November or something. It gives us a way to show support, it sends a message to the DNC that we will not give to them or to their “presumptive” nominee, but we will donate to Sen. Clinton. It’s another way to show our fury. It has been suggested to the Clinton campaign and I hope they do it–I think it’s a really great vehicle for channeling people’s fury into showing MORE support for Clinton, while sending the message to Brazile, Dean and Obama that we can’t be bothered to come up with funds for them.

    Whatcha think?!?


  37. AlanSmithee,

    Very authoritarian and anti-Democratic.

  38. Isn’t AlanSmithee a hoot? I think we should keep this one up for giggles.

  39. A big religious opening to the convention sounds like one of the worst ideas ever, but that seems to be a trademark of these folks.

  40. riverdaughter,

    First, I don’t speak for any other general election Obama supporters other than myself.

    Second, my comment wasn’t about what I “feel”, it’s about what I think.

    Third, thank goodness people have strong opinions about politics – especially opinions with which I disagree. It would be far more worrisome if nobody cared at all.

    Fourth, you tell me to “act like a winner” when Obama hasn’t won anything yet. He almost certainly will… but not yet, and it’s not 100%.

    Fifth, I’ve never read or commented on this blog before (forwarded here by a friend) and won’t do so in the future now that I know my opinion isn’t welcome.

    Good day.

  41. Davidson has it exactly right.

    RD, I was thinking this exact thing this morning. It’s scary.

  42. How to be a good “Reverend Mother” (version 2.0):

    Remember the “but I want to understand you” and “all I want is an honest dialogue” version?.

    That is so yesterday….This is how you do it these days:

    1) State that you are a former supporter of somebody other than H or O. That makes you seem impartial (Edwards is very popular these days, but you can use other D primary candidates)

    2) Mention how important getting out of Iraq, SC/ reproductive rights, fight against poverty, universal health care, etc. is to the future of America.

    2.a.) If you can claim to “know” somebody affected by 2 (see above) it is even better. (eg daughter/son in the army, fertile female, friends affected by mortgage crisis)

    3) Claim to be a “true D” (“unlike you”, by implication) and that for the good of the country it is imperative that “we” support O in November.

    4) If you can finish your post with some catchy phrase a la “Yes we can” (eg “it is up to you”, “it is our choice”, “we decide”) you may get a promotion.

    The end.

  43. I have just one dissent from this brilliant post — I’m not going to marry him, no way, no how.

    Not after the way he ran his campaign and the things he allowed his surrogates to say.

  44. Dean et al are probably seeing people like Taylor Marsh turning on a dime and think everyone else will follow. Has that site changed–and the comments, geesh. Sad.

  45. Some of us aren’t going to sign on to the Obama bus under any circumstances.

    Obama and his brand of “new” politics is poison as far as I’m concerned. I know I’m not alone in this.

  46. “Good day.” (?)

    You watch KO too much.

  47. Tom,

    I don’t know if there is something wrong with your reading comprehension skills but, this isn’t a site where we’re discussing the merits of an Obama candidacy.

    If you’ve got stuff you want to talk about then start your own blog (there’s a handy link at the bottom of the page)

  48. The Obamabots are trying to lower our morale and weaken our will. It’s vote supression all over again. All they have to do is keep say, 10 % of us away from the polls and Obama can win.

    They are trying to tire us out. This is a long term plan. They need us to stay home.

    Stay strong and detemined, pumas.

    It is going to be a long summer.

  49. I would not sign onto the Obama bus given his penchant for throwing people under it. I spent a while on Facebook this morning and a lot of young people are forming groups, including a PUMA group, a Sit Out group, and a DNC can’t tell me who to vote for group. I think this is great. Dean has made a huge error in assuming Hillary’s supporters don’t matter. There are a lot of young women really devastated over Hillary’s “loss” that the DNC is also taking into account. Many of them are joining groups like Hillary Supporters for McCain. For all the “gains” in new voters, many of them are already heading out of the party because they believe the person with the best credentials, who happened to be a woman, could win. Reading some of their notes is really moving, because they did not believe such a qualified woman could be beaten by such an unqualified man.

  50. Plural, my thoughts exactly. I wasn’t that naive as a 17 yr old freshman so many years ago and I was REALLY naive. I hope I have learned to recognize a “snow job” in the last ???? # of years!!!

  51. Katie,

    I thought the AlanSmithee comment was snark. Looks like the Obamatrolls are getting an early start. I wonder how much they make an hour?

  52. http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0608/11020.html

    On Clinton’s $20-30 million dollar debt, she will, of course, try to raise cash. She’s raised 1 million dollars since MT and SD. She is also going to either:

    a. Ask her donors to redirect her almost 24 million GE fund to Obama. In exchange, Obama will tell his supporters to help pay off her debt (Ummmm no)


    b. Ask her donors to redesignate her almost 24 million GE fund to her 2012 Senate campaign. She’s not going to send the money directly to her Senate account, although she could do that, but it might cause some lawsuits/headaches.

    – Dodd asked if he could directly send his GE fund to his Senate account to pay off his debt, and the FEC hasn’t ruled on it yet. But there is a difference because Dodd accepted public financing and Hillary did not.

    Instead, she will ask her donors if they want to redesignate the same amount to be sent to her Senate account. Its never been done before though. They could want a refund too but I think the ones who gave for the GE are the rich loyal Clintonistas.

    Also, she might:

    c. Absorb the 11.4 million personal contribution as a personal financial hit. She has the intention to pay off this portion, too, but I think it depends on her ability to raise the cash.

    d. Obama can ask his supporters to help pay off her debt, but knowing Obama, he’ll want something in return and who knows if the Obamabots will pony up. So, perhaps, they’re not counting on this strategy that much.

    She will pay off vendors first and then “friendly debt” later. Campaign consultant fees, I think, are considered friendly debt.

  53. Fifth, I’ve never read or commented on this blog before (forwarded here by a friend) and won’t do so in the future now that I know my opinion isn’t welcome.

    At least Tom got the message quickly. I don’t know why he was so huffy, though.

  54. Chimera, that is so encouraging, but sad. I heard some calculation the other night about getting a % of new voters registered before Nov and O only needing a % of them to win big. The msg was that we didn’t matter. Getting those #’s (wish I had jotted them down) looks more and more difficult to me or this movement wouldn’t be in the “news.” Proud to be a part of his “miscalculation.”

  55. Good morning all!

  56. WS,

    If I were Clinton, I’d hang onto the money until we’re sure Obama doesn’t go down in flames. He is just about the most pathetic candidate I’ve ever seen. I wonder if Politico made up that story or if they actually you know, talked to Hillary?

  57. Excellent post, riverdaughter. I would personally disagree with one point: I’ll remain politically single for this election. No amount of wooing will change my mind.

    I don’t marry thugs.

  58. Hi Kim!

  59. ws,
    I hope Penn is at the bottom of the list. supposedly is in GQ (I think) with interview saying it wasn’t his fault, didn’t underestimate O, etc

  60. What if as a group we all decided to donate on one day. Go to all the pro-Hillary sites, I thing that just say no deal has them listed and everyone give as much as they can at one time. That would raise some eyebrows.

  61. Okay gotta admit, I have married a few brainless thugs.

  62. Guys, my friends sent me KO’s “special” diatribe. This one is rich. Anyone know how I can contact Couric? Here it is:

    And our winner, Katie Couric. Speaking at a Washington luncheon in her honor, the CBS anchor saying, “However you feel about politics,” or her politics, rather, “I feel that Senator Clinton received some of the most unfair hostile coverage I`ve ever seen.” She added that sexism “contributed in part to the Senator’s defeat.”

    A little Kool-Aid-ish, but her opinion and she`s entitled to it. What followed she was not entitled to. Couric referred to one, quote, “prominent member of the commentariat” who had said he found it hard to be objective when it came to Obama. “That’s your job,” she says. Then she suggested he “find another line of work.”

    She didn’t name him, maybe because she didn’t bother to look it up. But the supposed member of the “commentariat” who said that was not, in fact, a commentator. It was NBC News correspondent Lee Cowan, who covered the Obama campaign throughout the primaries, and who, as Ms. Couric would have found out had she bothered to examine the context of his remark, was speaking with refreshing honesty, acknowledging that the environment of that campaign and the ferocity of the candidate`s supporters in the primaries challenged a reporter to be especially professional and vigilant in separating the hype from the news.

    I probably saw literally 90 percent of Lee Cowan`s reporting in this campaign, and it was utterly objective and accurate. It is sad that Ms. Couric could not have emulated him and separated the hype from the news in her own promulgation of the nonsense that Senator Clinton was a victim of pronounced sexism. And as to her advice that a reporter like Lee Cowan, who was her colleague at CBS for nearly a year, should find another line of work, it is sadly obvious that in leaving NBC and the Today Show, Ms. Couric already has. Katie Couric, today’s “Worst Person in the World.”

  63. Riverdaughter, this poll is documented on MSN. It’s the NBC/WSJ poll.

  64. BB, the article said she has roughly 60 days (until the convention) to return the money or redirect to a Senate account. If Obama implodes, I think the money from a Senate account could be switched back to a GE, but it’ll be smaller since it would be used to pay off debts.

  65. Obama is playing a crazy numbers game. It’s like direct mail. You send out millions of letters and if you get a 2% response, that’s great. Inefficient way to go.

    He has to register x amount of new voters between now and November. He assumes a certain percent of x will actually turn up at the polls, and that 75% of that group will “push the right button.”

    He must also supress the Clintonista vote. If he can keep us at home on election day. There are y number of Clinton voters who will vote for McCain or Green. Keep a certain percent of them home it narrows his gap further.

    (His spreadsheet guy could explain this better that I can.)

    So we’re in a brutal long term slog. Who is going to get tired first? Not me. They are trying to wear us down.


  66. At the current rate (see alexa.com), The Confluence will pass Taylor Marsh in traffic. TalkLeft is also on a downward trend since Obama was selected as the nominee and they started going ga-ga. My guess is that the anti-Obama sentiment is much deeper than even they anticipated. And its more than just the blogosphere. It’s the same with people I talk to who aren’t online at all.

  67. AlanSmithee: I hope you are being facetious.

    I missed Tom’s comment, but upon what numbers does he base the assertion “[t]here are a lot more of us than there are of you” ? Certainly not the popular vote nor its distribution.

  68. I never really liked TM’s site. I signed up and got the updates, but I never really read through everything. For some reason I always thought she was a poser.

  69. chatblu–

    NBC/WSJ polling should be taken with a big grain of salt, especially when it comes to Obama. Remember, earlier this year they had a poll showing that Obama’s positivies went up after the Wright blow-up. It turned out that they doubled the African-American sample, which of course skewed the results in Obama’s favor.

  70. Arabella:

    Admitedly, I am not the smartest puppy in my litter…but I do not fully understand the “suppress the Clintonista vote” part of the equation.

    I can see how a D voting for Mc. can hurt O and so he may not want some H supporters voting for Mc.

    However, how does a D voting for a third party or not voting benefit him?

  71. I still read TalkLeft if only because the posts and comments appear to be written by adults with their own minds. They might be supporting Obama now, but I don’t see it as being kool-aid–yet (as TaylorMarsh).

  72. Obama is doing theater to cover up his weakness. His real strategy is divide and conquer.

    Throughout his life, Obama has been a master at dividing the opposition. He’s well known for getting rid of the opposition all together (e.g. Alice Palmer) by using technicalities.

    He knows he can’t win a landslide. Back to the Obama Basics. Divide and demoralize Clintonistas. Get the Clintonistas to fight amongst themselves and become demoralized.

    Also, let’s not forget vote suppression. I shudder to think what will go on in the polling places on election day.

    Obama only wins by gaming the system.

  73. Hi gq. TM has an interesting guest post (realclearpols.) today though.

    The topic: Clintonista+Obamista= understanding.

  74. UpState – I am a bit inchaote today.

    A vote for McCain is a vote against Obama. I was too afraid to out-right say that. Keeping this “z number” of Democratic McCain voters at home is the goal.

    I wish someone smart would look at these numbers.

    I know what I’m trying to say, but I can’t say it.

    Bad headache today.

  75. A terrific post. A great analysis. Will Dr. Dean and co. pay any attention? We have to make them!

  76. iT’S ALL GOOD BUT THE PART ABOUT ‘EARNING OUR SUPPORT’. With me, that is MISSION IMPOSSIBLE’. The only way Obama can earn my support is to drop out of the race entirely.

  77. Some brilliant person called Dean a “hood ornament” because that’s all he is now. Heh.

  78. RD,
    Since I don’t listen to the news anymore, this is my wake up link to the world… Again, its a terrific post to wake up to here is sunny Washington State. OK, maybe not sunny, but its a nice thought.
    If this turns into a religious convention or candidacy, it will become a total betrayal to the Democratic Party. I read and listen and all I do is walk around saying “this nuts, its crazy, I can’t believe what is happening to the Dems”. We expect from the Repubs, but from our own kind”?????

  79. Great post rd!

  80. I got an email from an Obot this morning, regarding Johnson’s resignation.

    The first line was, “Again, after realizing a mistake, Obama does the right thing.”

    I told him to look over the first phrase, and to do it over and over.

    “Again, after realizing a mistake.”

    It is like a mantra.

  81. Hey Upstate! How far upstate are ya?

  82. I can the the huge Trinity Choir singing “Oh Happy Day”. I read somewhere that after the Rev. Wright came out for his own purposes, many of the parishioners, were torn, so they formed a line and went through the church to “We are Family.”

  83. “Will Dr. Dean and co. pay any attention?”

    I doubt it. I hear he’s trying to force Hill to give up her delegates. Not very respectful. Also, I had a friend I haven’t seen in a couple years contact me. She couldn’t go two sentences without telling me to support Obama. Seriously. I just finished school, haven’t seen her in two years and the first thing she tells me in months is that I need to support Obama.

  84. Dr. Dean can walk it so far back we can’t see his sorry a$$ and I still won’t climb on the band wagon.

    People with integrity and scruples, like katiebird, riverdaughter, Bostomboomer, Kim, Teresa, Gary, Mawm and a host of other don’t support cheats, liars, and corruption.

    They also don’t just roll over and quit when told to do so. If ever I am in a bind and need help the people listed above are the ones I want at my back. Not TM and Jeralyn that talk about how simply awful someone is one day and then fall in line the next. They may be “nice” people. But “nice” isn’t going to end the corruption in our party.

    Personally I like the attitude of people like violetsocks. No quit in that gal!


  85. A 1% ‘BUMP’ in the polls. ..that’s not even a little pimple! What a disaster!

  86. pragmatist – Mission Impossible for me too. All this reconciliation talk is nonsense. The don’t want us. The are working to diminish our power – to nullify us.

    It is to Obama’s benefit to have PUMA’s in play. It gives his bots a target to hate and harass. It lets him use memes from the primaries (They’re all recists!) He can blame any bad poll numbers on Hillary and her supporters. It’s a sideshow for his thugs. And for the media too. “Look at all those bitter, racist old women!”

    Obama is trying to play mind games with us, but we’re too smart for him. It’s a war or attrition, and Obama will keep sending in fresh troups for as long as it takes.

  87. Kim, he NEVER admitted he made a mistake. This is another parallel I find to George W. Obama will never admit he made a mistake just like GW could never take on accountability.

    Show me where Obama admitting making any mistake.

    We need a “buck stop here” president, not a “He is not the person I once knew” kind.

  88. The most disturbing item is a planned “religious theme” at the convention. This is what would absolutely leave me in the dust. The very worst of politics is the introducing religion into the mix. A sure way of sending true conservatives marching out the door.

    The hypocrisy is amazing. Do they really believe that having religion as their theme will mollify any of the constituencies who are already turned off? Particularly the gay community who has suffered the slings and arrows of narrow minded dogma.


  89. Edit: I should have written “true progressives” Sorry


    Let the Democratic Party, be the party that cares for the majority of Americans and DEMOCRATIC principles. All you need to do is LET THE PEOPLE DECIDE! The Central Committee or Politburo style of making decisions has been proven a total failure in the USSR! Why Oh Why are you using that method?

    Let the Democratic Party stand for competence in government! That means do not foist an incompetent person on us by making/manipulating/selectively enforcing rules to discriminate against Hillary Clinton, for whatever sinister gains you and your team hopes to achieve.

    What you have done so far is a BETRAYAL! of the members of the Democratic Party and the American people.

  91. Obama “realizes a mistake.” He didn’t “make a mistake.” Just like Bush.

    Mistakes were made, but not by Obama or Bush.
    Obama “realizes” a mistake. He doesn’t “acknowledge” it. He even “recognize” it.

    Realize means “to understand fully.” I guess it’s another case of my not understanding Obama’s “nuance.”

  92. I don’t know that the Democrats will have a religious theme at the convention. I’ve only heard rumors.

  93. Hello all! Where can I read more about the weirdness of a religious theme at the convention?

    I must be feeling better cause i feel like beating my head against something again. 😉

  94. Pat,
    I think it would turn off conservatives too. They may see it as religious show without true conviction behind it.

  95. WOW,Riverdaughter “YOU NAILED IT AGAIN”! In addition to the people responible ,to me the top “PUPPET-MASTER” is Rahm Emanuel.Not only was he credited for the 2006 take over. He was mention with the “under-handed” way the dems. “won” the lasted mid-term contest over the republicans. If you become what you are fighting against,you are NO-BETTER than them!
    Great find on the Katie C. clip as well!
    WE (the Hillary supporters) asked 2-things of the DNC & Obama “BEFORE” the primary season was
    You might be “ahead” but “we” can’t be
    “SPEECHED” into believing your the right “person”
    “this is a tie you can’t steal / this tie you must EARN”!-
    Arthur movie.

  96. I once belonged to a party, not a personality cult.

    No vote for a stolen nomination.

    To parphrase BO: “That’s not the Democratic party I knew.”

  97. Totally and completely agreed. The point I was trying to make was that he prefaced the email with “once again”.

    Well how many damn “once agains” are we gonna have to muster through if he becomes POTUS? I don’t know how many times I heard, Hillary voted for the war. It was almost a chant. This guy has effed up and screwed up and thrown people under the bush and it is just peachy.

    I know we say, “drank the Kool-aid”, but the things Obama has done just show a complete lack of morals, principles and ethics. I could have stood by his defense of Wright possibly, if he had stood by it. But the minute, Wright started doing interviews, OH NO. Same with Rezko, and the list goes on and on.

    I have even had some friends who support him say, okay so he’s dirty, but he is not stupid. So they support a samrt dirty politician?

    I think that is why sometimes, I just lurk these days and not post, because there is no rational explanantion for voting for this guy.

  98. It’s hysterical. His full Christian life revolves around one church. Wright’s church. And, yet he’s still trying to play himself off as some sort of conservative evangelical.

  99. It was as if Dean, Axelrod, et al had a meeting and concluded, “Well, it worked so well for the Republicans, let’s see if it works on the Democrats!”


    And if Katie Couric got to be on of KO’s worst people, along with Elton John, for saying that Hillary is subjected to sexist attacks, I think I will HAVE to start watching Couric again.
    (I don’t watch any network news anymore, to keep my bp down, just watch local news)

  100. I take comfort in the fact that Dukakis showed a 17% bump in the polls against Poppy Bush. Look how well that worked out. My fondest wish is that between now and August his ratings are so low the party steps back. If Dean is to be believed, they are already nervous. Hillary would have guaranteed some Repub women crossovers. Obama, no.

    One can only hope. And the longer he is out there alone, I think Obama is looking less “presidential”. People are not stupid. Unless you watch Olbermann. What an ass!

  101. I just read that one of Hillarys biggest H-wood supporters has agreed to help BO. Streisand will help raise money if necessary.

  102. Obama has made an enemy of Lou Dobbs. Although I am not a big fan of Dobbs I am for anybody who refuses to get on the bandwagon. Dobbs has a good sized audience and I am hoping the nightly drubbing creates an erosion.

    We recognize that Fox is an arm of the GOP so their reporting will always be slanted. But Hannity is on a mission. And though he may be preaching to the choir it is good to see others point out the deficiencies which are evident to us.

  103. gqmartinez: I live in a small rural community between Rochester and Syracuse. Apple country.

  104. If religion is your thing, go to church. But keep it out of the public square.

  105. He’s sweating bullets about that birth certificate. There is probably a document some where that has “Muslim” on it. I don’t beleive the story that Obama was born in Africa. I do believe that it may be customary in Africa to document births of African parents when they occur overseas.

    Somewhere, he is claimed as a Muslim or an African. If he was a baby when such a document was created, it’s not his fault, but it may make him look bad.

    Wasn’t Obama’s grandfather opposed to his parent’s marriage because it would “dilute (our) black blood”? I’ll have to check. Maybe gramps got cranky and went to the village hall to register Obama as African. Total speculation on my part.

    Just release the birth certificate. And your medical records. And your State Senate records.

  106. Athena: “I once belonged to a party, not a personality cult.”

    Goddess of wisdom, indeed.

  107. There are no state senate records. That was always the point. He worked about 53 days a year. It was a part-time job. If there is any paperwork at all, it will show how small time the job was.

  108. The mysterious birth certificate may only be that they are attempting to locate a “manger” to pinpoint as a location. Backed by three wise men who were following the star.

  109. WSJ/NBC poll just now. O doing poorly with white men and suburban women. Winning women overall and winning Hispanics by over 20 pts. Did someone say earlier that they manipulate the samples?

  110. Pat, you are BAD… heh.

  111. They can raise all the money they want for Obama: it won’t work. Money can’t change Obama. He’s the problem.

  112. #
    Pat Johnson, on June 12th, 2008 at 10:18 am Said:

    The mysterious birth certificate may only be that they are attempting to locate a “manger” to pinpoint as a location. Backed by three wise men who were following the star.

    Hahahaha, Pat! That is exactly what I needed this morning to get me laughing – thank you!

    Very good post, Riverdaughter – particularly after seeing the Barbara Boxer video link my sister just sent showing her saying that “women will flock to Obama.”

  113. Obama’s grandfather was opposed to the marriage because Obama’s father was already married with two kids in Africa.

    Gramps Obama probably had a low opinion of the 18 year old single woman who got pregnant by is son. Now they claim his objections were racist in nature.

    Since Obama’s father never divorced his African wife, the marriage to Obamamama was probably invalid.

  114. loved your writing at dailykos, goldberry. Hard Workism! indeed.

    How about this: (fabian’s sig there)

    Proud member of the Cult of Issues And Substance!

  115. Pat,
    I agree, I’ll take any form of News if its derogatory to Barry and this Primary season. I can be fickle, they are now my best friends… But once they start discussing another topic, I find my head starting to spin, I know its time to get the remote control…
    I even went so far as to try to listen to Low Dobbs on the radio, couldn’t do it!!!

  116. Melanie – I thought Obama said the records were “lost.” It’s odd not to have an records at all.

    My point is, Obama should just release his records and put an end to doubt. Obama’s thin skin – his inablity to be perceived as other than perfect – will be his downfall.

    Obama – I feel your pain. I have destroyed my highschool year book. I have tried to expunge the existence of a loser boy friend from my family’s memory. We all have stuff in file drawers and photo albums that are embarassing. Obama – be a man and tough it out. Show us your records. There are no records at all for your time in Columbia University. Was that because of a bad haircut? I know how that feels. I curse my bear claw bangs every time somebody forces me to look at my wedding photos.

  117. Pat, that may be the script for the convention??? lol. Are these the issues O is having to put up a new website to counter? I know the system is slow but if “children have been born and are walking” seems long enough to get a copy of a BC even from distant Hawaii with so much tech at his disposal.

  118. I don’t listen to polls, I listen to people, I have yet to find any person over 40 who trust obama. That said I don’t hang out w/ people who drink kool aid ( personally kool aid gives me HEARTBURN) HA HA

  119. Yeah, it’s weird, I know few people who will vote for Obama.

    My point about the records is he doesn’t want to release them because they will show how little experience he has.

  120. Either there is something on the birth certificate that he does not want known or else his arrogance is so over the top that he feels he can tell the press to stick it; it comes out when he is ready.

    This preview of what his administration may look like is disturbing. Few will want to criticize or question for fear of being labeled racists. We have seen the power behind their ability to get the supers support. Probably strong armed tactics. The secrecy will be a continuation of Bush whose last 8 years have been a model.

    Nothing new here folks, keep going.

  121. um, I’m pretty much a lurker here. Every so often I run out of my mouse hole to say, “I’m with you folks.” Nobody much sees me, so I run back to continue nodding in silence. I don’t mean to flatter, but you all just a little too fast & clever for me to add anything until about 2 hours too late.

    The other night I actually said something I think is relevant, when I mentioned the 2004 British film A Politician’s Wife with Juliet Stevenson and Minnie Driver. Has anyone else seen this? I do believe this film is the quintessential film of slow, cold political revenge. PUMA-worthy revenge. And the ending shows a new direction of politics.

    Okay, running back.

  122. A lot of his documentation is sketchy. I remember reading somewhere that there is no documentation of his parents divorce. There is also something I read somewhere that it was due to his father already being married at the time of his parent’s divorce.

    But, who knows, all rumor and conjecture at this point.

    And as for the muslim being on the birth certificate, they won’t care. He was an admitted atheist for quite some time as well, religion should not enter the picture.

  123. Parent of Ed: know the feeling, the people on this site are sharp, witty and knowledgeable. It takes forever to read all the comments and by the time you are at the end and ready to post, boom, someone has already said it.

  124. And as for the muslim being on the birth certificate, they won’t care. He was an admitted atheist for quite some time as well, religion should not enter the picture.

    Shouldn’t matter – yes. I think it matters to Obama more than anyone else. He likes to control every aspect of his existence. Just getting the facts out is the right thing to do. He seems weak and shifty otherwise.

    Same with his passports and his medical records. I’ll bet there’s nothing in them, but Obama doesn’t want the documents out there because there are thing in there he doesn’t like. Obama wants to create himself as he sees himself.

  125. parentofed,

    Thank you for commenting. Please comment more. We need to show as many voices as possible. That goes for anyone else lurking here too. We need people to make noise.

    I believe our Democracy is in danger right now. The Obama campaign has trashed every core Democratic party principle. If we remain silent about it, we will get even more corruption in our government.

    Women are the strength that really moves this world. The problem is they have a really high tolerance for pain, and in our society it is the squeaky wheel that gets the grease.

    For all the insults, ridicule, dismissiveness, and brutality that women have suffered in this world, for all the patience, hard work, love, and soul women have put into it to make it a better place, Let’s make some NOISE this summer. Let’s make that wheel scream to high HEAVEN!

  126. parentofed, I’m just figuring all this out and am usually more than 2 hrs behind, nodding like you at the wisdom expressed. Is the movie available for rental? Have not seen it.

    Kim, WHOLEHEARTEDLY agree religion should not be part of politics, but if O is courting the religious vote, he is in for quite a surprise here in the “bible belt.” I know Baptist and Methodist who have reservations about the others religious practices. Know personally people in those groups who were frightened of O before the Wright publicity. Do wonder if the religious right can be courted with financial gain though like with Bush policies.

  127. A poster over and Anglachel inserted passages which are now claiming that he “heals” people. That there is a particular “warmth” that runs through his body upon contact. Can we get any crazier than this?

    Why not run Benny Hann for president? We won’t need to worry about healthcare. He can make house calls.

    Is this campaign beginning to look like a dangerous cult? It is to me. All the more reason to reject him in November.

  128. We’ll have to search for the statements but I recall Obama stating that if anyone wants his disarrayed, lost, messed up IL senate records that he is hiding that they would have to submit FOIA requests on “specific” instances of what they are searching for. Sure, like anyone knows what they are looking for exactly. They should have been released from the start. Just another tactic to stall, stall, stall, and obstruct.

  129. Arabella,
    The Los Angeles Times had an article on his boyhood years in Indonesia. It featured interviews with his grade school teacher. It confirms that in two enrollment records, he is listed as Muslim. The article must still be in the LA Times archive since it is only about two or three months old.

    Obama himself says that he owes his being a Christian to Rev. Wright twenty years ago. The next question of course is: “So what was he before Rev. Wright converted him twenty years ago?

    Nothing wrong with being a Moslem. My family roots is Moslem perhaps ten generations ago. He is certainly making a mistake by focusing on religion in his campaign. If he is confident of his Christianity, his life should clearly convey that faith. No need to be wearing it on his sleeve or using Christian symbols as a marketing tool.

  130. “Obamaism”? I prefer “Obamanism”, making the obvious allusion to Onanism.

  131. I hope other disaffected voters from TM find their way here.

  132. He was an agnostic until he met Rev. Wright. His family was not attached to any particular religious affiliation. Besides, it was his father, who he barely knew, who was Muslim, not his mother. Perhaps the birth certificate allowed that affiliation based on the father’s religion and nothing more.

    I am not sure, but is religion a part of a birth certificate?

  133. Some libraries have it, especially those that cater to BBC films. It is still for sale at Amazon & other places. It was quite popular in Britain, don’t know about here. Well worth the watching. The wife seemed so powerless at first, a smiling supporting wife at the side of a cheating husband, but she slowly learns real power and how to use it.

  134. Forgot to address my last link to Phala re movie. Jeez. [Scampering back, heart beating fast]. Actually, this mouse feels quite safe at this PUMA-cat site.

  135. Arabella, I heard someone a while back say that the reason O was so popular was that he was a blank and picture that people could paint it to be anything they wanted to see or something like that. Maybe that is part of the reason, too???

  136. Juliette Stevenson is one of the best character actresses around. She is able to play any type of role.

  137. parentofed, thanks. probably need to check Amazon. Local, rural library May not have it. ha! thanks

  138. At the end of your message, it seemed to me, you are saying that they can redeem themselves.

  139. I’m beating this topic to death, so I’ll stop. I just don’t see why Obama won’t release his birth certificate. It makes no sense. I’m sure that there is nothing “bad” in the birth certificate. I’m more concerned that this is another example of his pathological need to control every aspect of his biography. And that is Richard Nixon style lunacy.

  140. I saw today that Obama is about where Hillary was in electoral votes at electoral-vote.com. My heart stopped.

    Then I saw that he’s only one point ahead in many of the states. The electoral-vote guy is essentially logging ties in Obama’s favor.

    How ridiculous.

    Anyway, just weighing in on that.

    With the added religiousity, Obama’s campaign is getting more terrifying by the minute. He is truly scary. I don’t want him in the White House.

  141. What is also disturbing is the degree of anger at posters who question or are in any way critical of Obama. It is almost a fixation that he is above reproach. The level of vitriol is absurd. Again, I detest my own paranoia, but is this what we can expect should he (please God, no!) win in November? All dissent muffled or you may find someone at your door at 3am.

  142. Thanks Phala –

    Arabella, I heard someone a while back say that the reason O was so popular was that he was a blank and picture that people could paint it to be anything they wanted to see or something like that. Maybe that is part of the reason, too???

    That’s it exactly.
    He has to control the way he’s perceived.

  143. Arabella: BINGO!

  144. If a big religious opening to the Dem convention is in the works, that seems to me about counter punching , Rev Wrights ” God damn America” blaring 24/7 from TV and even GOP sound trucks! Like a re branding of Bambie’s “beliefs”.

  145. I am sure religion is listed on the birth certificate. At least back then, I know my husband listed our son as Catholic, I was Episcopalian.

    Phala in NC: I am in the bible belt and that is why I say keep religion out of it. I am in Greenville, SC, home of the Glorious Bob Jones University and due to being here, I have become agnostic/atheist, not sure which right now.

    I was episcopalian and many episcopals in this region, quit the church over the ordaining of the first openly gay bishop. I was asked if I would leave and said HELL NO! I joined this church because I felt it was more progressive and open and to quit over something like that, to me, would have been hypocritical.

    I left the church because I did not like what I was seeing, I thought we were supposed to love everyone, regardless of age, race, creed, sexual orientation, etc.

    After all the hypocrisy I have seen, I want no part of organized religion. I have seen a hell of a lot more good from progressives, than from the religious right.

  146. Arabella: You are not beating it to death, I find it amazing that I can’t get a driver’s license or a voter registration card without proper documentation and now, even though the constitution requires that you be born on American soil, you can run for president without proving you were born here???????

  147. Birth certificates are not required for births of immaculate conception, but complete body scans for 666 are.

  148. Just got up to read this really well-written and heartfelt message.

    These tactics are not only Rovian … they are down right Nixonian. I will not be a member of a party that frightens folks into voting for them, rigs elections, puts down dissent, and calls out folks that disagree with ugly names.

    Creep is back alright, and its name is now embedded now in the DNC.

  149. parentofed, “The Prime Minister’s Wife” is an absolute gem. Riveting to watch.

    So is Juliet Stevenson, in anything. For those who haven’t had the undiluted pleasure of watching her and Alan Rickman in “Truly, Madly, Deeply,” RENT IT NOW. It’s a “Ghost” for grownups and just amazing.

  150. Kim: So true. And we are observing a new brand of hypocrisy by combining the flag with superstition. I believe there is something out there that defies my limited comprehension. But I take exception to someone anointing themselves and speaking for “God”. I do not believe for a second that “God” is this intolerant.

  151. Prolix: Thanks for reminding me. I forgot we were talking about O

  152. Prolix: Right on target! And incidentally, whatever happened to Rosemary’s Baby?

  153. Limited comprehension: Try saying you are agnostic in Greenville, SC.

  154. I forgot to say good morning so good morning everyone.

  155. Hi RD & all– fantastic post Riverdaughter I’m stealing it! But, I want you to know there is a lot more at stake here than we realize. That reference to a “cult” we keep seeing looks like one thing and one thing only. Fascism.
    One thing in Fascism at the beginning is the EXTREME amount of SEXISM we have just seen towards women. I strongly encourage you to look that up in the web and do some research on your own. One technique is use of propaganda as he has, as well as his glittering generality statements. We are NEVER going to allow fascism to take root here or we are done as Americans. I’m sure that even the military leaders are keeping an eye on him because of the very techniques they are witnessing. Think Italy or Germany in the ’30s. He promises “hope” in an era when the country could be ripe (economic downturn) for that. Think Mussolini. Truly.
    I found a great site called “FloppingAces” it’s hard news over there.
    Very important to follow in an era when all we have are citizen journos.
    Second I did some research– you aren’t going to believe this but look at this site! I know nothing of Repubs — this group though? It even has gay people like some of our friends. My sense is that we are like them? Seriously. We need to meet them? Even NQ is on there, I couldn’t believe it. Look at their page and see? I’m going to link. If this country is going fascist? I’m leaving. I will. So for me there is a lot at stake. Not just all my years of being a Dem, but the notion of Liberty and what being an American means. I am an American and I’ve never felt like more of one than right now. He will try to do to McCain what he has done to Hillary Clinton if this is actually what I think I’m seeing. Here is that site and I have linked to a place called Patriot Room — he’s a lawyer and Flopping aces knows him—

  156. parentofed, My library has a copy but it’s in mending. I’m walking across the street right now to see if it’s really damaged…..

    Also — we’re happy to have you here!

  157. I don’t think religous affiliation would be on a birth certificate.
    Mother’s maiden name would be.

  158. Kim, I have not regularly attended services for over 20 years. I was raised Baptist, my husband Methodist. My sister and brother-in-law are Episcopalian and I remember how bothered they were when the church ordained the bishop. Was there a split or potential split?

    When religion and politics started to become intertwined in the 80s it upset me that my views were considered unchristian and I didn’t want to be in a position where I needed to get up and walk out or subject my children to such things. That is why I could not understand O’s remarks about his church. I did not hear it, but heard from a friend that one of the local radio stations remarked that he was being paid a lot to play a Hillary ad but that anyone who voted for her was “going to hell.”

    Anyway, that is why I am so puzzled by his outreach to this group. Doesn’t really matter to me. My, raised Republican, daughter-in-law may be quite surprised to find we are voting for the same candidate. lol

    Arabella and Kim, I agree if there is any question of his legitimate candidacy, he should have to clear it up. Does he really think the questions will stop until he does?

  159. Parent of Ed,

    Please stop scampering about, I’m getting tired just thinking about it. Stay longer and visit.

  160. For those who may not know what an “Alan Smithee” is, this read may be entertaining.

  161. The kool aide is pouring down from the highest places. I can’t believe I’m saying it, but 4 more years of Bush would be preferable to Bambie . Because The social unrest and economic shock and awe BO ‘s backers have planned is going to be worse, much worse. Because it will ramped up what we have seen these last 8 years to hyper speed. The Corporations won’t have even a utterly compliant GOP middle man encumbering them . Iraq was the test case and their model. We, are the start of the insurgency . IF Bambie is still the nominee when the balloons drop in Denver , McCain becomes the new Hillary. If Hillary was calling for us to vote for McCain in her suspending speech, as some have suggested , it was not for her own ambitions sake , but the country’s survival .

  162. Phala: There was a split in the Episcopal church and shortly thereafter that split, I split, as well.

  163. I have my childrens birth certificate and there is a place for religious affiliation. It is also a standard question by most hospitals upon entering, in case you die.

  164. I don’t know if any of you remember how KO and the nasties at HuffPo greeted the news that Katie Couric was going to be the new anchor at CBS. Derision, derision, and more derision. How dare that Morning Twit think she had the creds to aspire to be more?

    KO bashed her often as he did Paris Celebutard and the pathetic Brittney meltdown. It was there for all of us to see. His Misogyny isn’t new. It was always there. It just became unhinged at the thought that a “woman” would aspire to the highest office in the land. He is truly a despicable excuse for a man and for a human being.

    Oh and note to parentofed thanks for the heads up on “The Politician’s Wife”. I’m going to go and order it on Amazon right now. It should make a nice companion piece to “The First Wives Club”.

  165. O’s crowd is already painting McCain as old and “senile” so it will worry the women.

  166. Phala, wont bother us, we are reportedly old and senile.

  167. An Obama presidency scares the hell out of me too. I would rather see McCain since I honestly do not think he is a radical. His VP selection could make the difference in the end. But nothing will ever persuade me to vote Obama.

  168. or gays or lesbians or working class or hillbillies or racists or bigots. Anything except enlightened.

  169. Ronk,

    Thanks for the link — I’ve learned today.

  170. Who will report Olbermann’s meltdown? It is obvious he is close.

  171. Since I too am “old and senile” nothing sticks anymore. I cannot be held accountable because of it.

  172. Maybe someone should do a post: Keith Olbermann worst person in the World.

  173. Pat, it is nice, old and senile is like young and foolish, we can start getting away with stuff again.

  174. Democracy is disorderly, and out of disorder comes order. Dictatorship is orderly, but it creates dissent and disorder. The Democrats lost many elections because of their flawed system of selecting candidates, not because of their democratic ideals.

  175. This may be off topic, but KO is almost 50 and never married. His current “girlfriend” is 25 yrs of age. This man has a major problem with women which is evident in his snarks and insults directed toward them. When he was doing his “special comments” about Hillary and Ferraro he appeared to be someone who needed to look into anger management sessions. So over the top!

    I was once a fan when he took on the Bush Admin but when he turned that hatred onto Hillary it was never clear to me why he did so with such relish. Out of that came that frat boy mentality that it was acceptable to demean her without consequences. I tuned out after that. Something deeper was going on here and I wanted no part of it. He is a sick man.

  176. Pat Johnson — Remember 2003-4, and all the people who shook Howard Dean’s hand and looked into his eyes and felt electric shocks run through their bodies?

    The experience is real enough (like the thrill going up Chris Matthews leg), but it’s not coming from the saviour du jour (who might just as well be a Binny Hinn reaching out to heal you through your televison). It’s coming from deep inside, from some intersection of emotinal need and the human ability to see mirages and meet imaginary friends.

    It’s not anything amenable to reason.

  177. Kim and Pat, I have always loved that poem about red hat and purple shoes (guess it is basis of Red Hat Society) and I can do
    anything I want—-which means vote my conscience.

    prabhata, agreed. That is why this feels so WRONG.

  178. RD——The Best post ever!!!!! I concur, but with one exception—–no way I can be won over. Just wish I had your writing skills.

  179. Don’t know if it’s true, but I read somewhere that BO’s full name is Barack Hussein Mohammed Obama. Maybe that’s what’s on the mysterious birth certificate…

    Question: *If* (and I hope BO implodes by then), but *if* “his nibs” happens to be awarded the nomination, do you think whoever introduces him will use his full name?

    Seems to me it’s a quandry – introduce him as Barack Hussein (Mohammed) Obama and there’s that Muslim rumor popping up again, but if they don’t use his full name won’t it start a “why wouldn’t they use his middle name, what are they afraid of” rumor?

  180. Who will report Olbermann’s meltdown? It is obvious he is close.

    Barack throwing him under the bus. It will happen when Barack needs to make a show of punishing the media.

  181. Regarding the commenter using the famous pseudonym (see below, from Wickipedia); I assumed he was making a stab at satire…perhaps I was wrong. Anyway, it’s interesting that “he” chose the Smithee moniker.

    “Alan Smithee (or the alternate spellings Allen Smithee, Alan Smythee, and Adam Smithee) is a pseudonym used from 1968 to the 2000s by film directors who wished to be dissociated from a film. It was used when the director proved to the satisfaction of a panel of members of the Directors Guild of America (DGA) and Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers that the director was not able to exercise creative control over the film. The director was also required to keep the reason for the disavowal a secret.

    The first known movie to use the Smithee pseudonym was Death of a Gunfighter (1969). The name is also an anagram of “The alias men.” However, it would be wrong to contribute this as a reason for choosing the name, given that the original choice of Al Smith was already registered with the DGA. During its filming, Richard Widmark was unhappy with director Robert Totten. He arranged to have Totten replaced by Don Siegel. When the film was finished, neither Totten nor Siegel wanted to be credited with the result. At first, it was decided that the credit should go to the fictional “Al Smith”, but the DGA reported there had already been an actual director by that name. The film was praised by critics, with The New York Times commenting that the film was “sharply directed by Allen Smithee [sic] who has an adroit facility for scanning faces and extracting sharp background detail.” [1]

  182. ronk: I feel the same about my Cuisanart and I have never relegated it to a “religious” experience. I am able equate delusional with the Obamabots.

  183. Do you feel like the more they ram him down our throats the more obsessive/compulsive you get about saying HELL NO!

  184. Pat, it is nice, old and senile is like young and foolish, we can start getting away with stuff again.

    Brava, Kim!

  185. Kim: HELL YES!!

  186. BTW, does it make any sense to counter us ‘older, post-meno. women’ with Roe v. Wade? Yes, we care but personally no longer affected. My daughters are smart enough to use birth control. And the young ones should have thought of that before they threw the baby out with the bath water.

  187. At first I thought Obama was all about setting up a Dem candidate who McCain could beat and the DNC was just laying down for the GOP like always, only the scale was larger than usual. We kept hearing how the press will turn once Obama is the nominee, okay maybe they are still waiting to turn on BO for their supposed dream boat , MaCain, but I’m not seeing that so much and really Obama and CO works out much better for the Corporate pay masters than even MaCain does. I watched about 25 Hillary rallies on the web and time went on she got ever more populous , taking on every conceivable special interest with hard hitting stuff. It was almost like Hillary was teaching / reminding people WHAT our government should look like….,I now think she felt the fix was in , and maybe she would be stopped in June , so why not let it rip? In those months between Feb an June , she captured peoples hearts and made herself as the go to person on the economy even mote than before .

    I’m sooooo banking on Obambie melting down before Denver. I think people planning this got too greedy and put forward too total a nothing. Not very smart, but they wanted a absolute tool.

    Until the balloons drop ….is my new matra

    We need Hillary

  188. ronkseattle, on June 12th, 2008 at 11:43 am Said:

    The experience is real enough (like the thrill going up Chris Matthews leg), but it’s not coming from the saviour du jour (who might just as well be a Binny Hinn reaching out to heal you through your televison). It’s coming from deep inside, from some intersection of emotinal need and the human ability to see mirages and meet imaginary friends.

    I agree, I will give you an example. My sister who I believe is quite unemotional and very cold hearted had such a moment. My sister and I went to Hillary’s event in D.C. on Sat. When Hillary , Bill and Chelsea came out on stage my sister (who never cries) started crying. I cannot explain the reason and neither could she. She was just overwhelmed with the magnitude of the experience. I on the other hand, cry over everything. Even the cartoon All Dogs go to Heaven had me bawling like a baby. Anyway I did not cry at Hillary’s event.

  189. The battle ground has shifted. The are not trying to shove Obama (ick) down our throats. They are trying to neutralize us. PSYOPS on to get us to fight amongst each other.

    Not just the PUMA’s, but other groups like Latinas etc.

    Watch out for this new tactic.

  190. Charles: You are a genius and I mean that with all sincerity. I am in total agreement with Mawm and that scares me more than any thought of a McCain presidency. Bush has paved the way for a secretive government and these people are set to step right in. Nothing will change but the landscape is going to look a lot murkier.

  191. Come back! We miss you all!

  192. KC: I have been hit with Roe v. Wade so many times and my response has been somewhat similar. However, I counter with the fact that I have worked hard and long and if my daughter, niece, cousin, friend, need an abortion, I can afford to take her to Canada. Plus, having previously worked as a woman’s advocate in legal aide, there will be options. There have always been options out there, they may be underground, but they are there.

  193. When discussion was considered unpatriotic and the MSM neglected to do investigative journalism prior to the Iraq invasion, and civil liberties were curtailed, my hope was that we could hold on until the election. We nominated a decorated veteran and lost. Now I, too, have the worst feeling in the pit of my stomach every time I think about what used to be my party and the presumptive nominee. And they think, we’ll get over this? But as Mawm said we need to stay energized and intensified. Thanks Mawm.

  194. Arabella Trefoil, on June 12th, 2008 at 12:00 pm Said: The battle ground has shifted. The are not trying to shove Obama (ick) down our throats. They are trying to neutralize us…..

    Maybe what Donna meant when she blurted out we weren’t needed .

  195. Arabella, do you have any specific examples. I don’t want to be caught unaware.

  196. Pat: That was my argument this morning with a former guy friend (Obama supporter-thus the term former). He continues to tell me that I cannot vote for McCain or others. My response has always been, this has as much to do with the democratic process as my dislike for the chosen one.

    Arabella: When the psychological warfare starts, I turn on my Ipod and listen to 60’s music and remember my really radical days. Listening the “The Band-The Weight” right now.

  197. Annetoo – We are not needed. They are already implementing their plan to neutralize us. (I wrote about that earlier this morning.)

    Above all, we must stay united. They will divide up. They will also try to wear us down. Be watchful.

    PUMAs: United. Determined. And Graceful in Repose.

  198. Arabella, totally agree on controlling the message. Another example is that he angrily called a Chicago columnist (Neil Steinberg) while he was still in Kenya in 2006 to express his offense that the columnist “presented his trip to Africa not as the sincere personal odyssey that the seal pack of journalists following him are describing, but as calculated political theater.”

  199. Phala – I’m trying to write a comment on this topic. So far we are all on our guard. But I can see Obama’s PSYOP’s people probing for weak spots.

    Looking at day to day changes in the troll content, I’m seeing trends.

  200. Kim, I have been feeling the urge lately to burn a bra or two.

    A couple of questions, please, before I go to put some strawberries in freezer for hubby. Did anyone see Ann Richards (gov. TX)’s daughter on TV last night? Do you think Ann Richards would endorse O?

    Is Biden still undecided? He didn’t immediately endorse like Dodd did and said he wouldn’t even endorse early June but is being mentioned as potential VP

  201. Arabella Trefoil, on June 12th, 2008 at 12:15 pm

    I agree , but then every day there is a new outrage, so right now it’s hard to be worn down …..but there is the long term to think about . I was going to stay home in Nov , but now if this is how it plays out, I’m voting McCain. Which I cannot believe I’m saying

  202. KJMontana, on June 12th, 2008 at 11:49 am Said:
    Don’t know if it’s true, but I read somewhere that BO’s full name is Barack Hussein Mohammed Obama. Maybe that’s what’s on the mysterious birth certificate…

    I was also wondering what race was noted on it. It would be embarrassing to him if it’s white . What would such a racial mix be called in HI? At the time and maybe now, the most diverse sate going .

  203. Good morning or good lunch – whatever – I have to come lurk a little on this site everyday because I can actually find something to laugh about – Pat/Prolix comments – it seems like this country is going to hell in a handbasket and I am trying to figure out when in the hell in started?? Was it us in the 60″s (I’m old & senile too) with the Hell No – Won’t Go or was it the fem issues – burning bras, etc. – makes me crazy – another thing that makes me crazy is the bot setting up internet site for kids – WTF is that about? I really do think he is a manchurian candidate

  204. Sue,

    What a wonderfully nice comment — you have made my day, thank you.

  205. http://www.talkleft.com/

    Good news! The Supreme Court voted 5 to 4 that Gitmo detainees have constitutional rights. Yay for habeus corpus!

  206. Sue, hadn’t heard about the kid’s site? For what purpose? I feel like I am living a nightmare and can’t wake up!!!!!!

    Does anyone know the “address” for the site he is setting up to dispell rumors. May let us know what he is worried about.

    Heard handlers are working with MO. Haven’t seen or heard her lately.

  207. RD – your post is awsome and there are so many pithy comments – too numerous to address in one reply but:

    Davidson, on June 12th, 2008 at 7:56 am Said:
    Movement conservatism could be called an actual movement because it was based on an ideology. What is going on here is truly a {{{{cult of personality built around an empty suit for the sole purpose (it seems) to channel government money to Wall Street and a corrupt Chicago-based political machine.}}}}}

    We must not stop denouncing and repudiating – they will not be denied by half measures – the stakes are too high for them. As always, follow the money – which I did from January on – the media was the biggest tip off. Horrifying that our own party would do this.

    Arabella – PSYOPS – indeed.

    Unify against this NOW! P.U.M.A.!

    We must help Hillary retire her debt and get her to the convention.

    There are two new petitions to sign – one for Dean(“GONE”) and Pelosi(“BOTOXIC”). See links at Bitter Politicz.- along with some older ones that have been out for a while.

    Carp Deim

  208. A Trefoil,

    I have noted some evolving tactics as well. The other day a young voice called from the O campaign for me-had to be because of Hillary’s donor list. The next day, I got an older, female-perky voice. Again, no doesn’t register with them or a hung up phone apparently. Then, yesterday, my husband answered and it was an elderly man calling for me from his campaign–again my husband told him ‘no sale.’ Next will probably be a call from ‘the great beyond.’

    The coalition leaders need to be aware and vigilant about the use of different tactics. Plus, somehow I am skeptical of that Recreate 68 site—-is it for real or an Axelrod manufactured blackmail tool? Boy, am I getting paranoid.

  209. Found article at boston.com/news/politics/political intelligence/2008/06/obama-launches. The website is fightsmears.com and the top issue is the reported tape of Michelle.

  210. Recreate 68 may turn out to be a big problem for Obama coming out of the convention looking presidential. I can imagine Hillary dealing with a chaotic mob, but not Obama.

    The Recreate 68 people have to worry about the Brown Note weapon now. Maybe that will give them second thoughts about showing up.

  211. I think I read the Kid stuff on Uppity Woman – not sure – I keep getting kicked out of PUMA site – bots have infiltrated and Murphy is trying to get it fixed – I get to the site but can’t get to any threads – long story short there were some links posted earlier this am about the kid stuff – also, FYI I talked to Bill Clinton’s office & Hillary’s office this morning about our 1 in 18 million thank you card campaign and how most of us were enclosing at least a $1.00 towards paying her campaign debt & also since the DNC has kicked us to the curb that we feel little loyalty to the DNC & will not be falling in line to vote for *61 & that we want Hillary as our presidential nominee and would do everything thing we could to make sure *61 is not the nominee or if he is, that he loses bigtime in November……….

  212. Are we still in America when we are discussing possible outbreaks of violence in Denver? I lived through the 1968 convention and it was not a pretty sight. It was Chicago folks. Daley Machine was in charge and we looked for all the world like a third world country. All this over an empty suit. Too amazing for words!

  213. For what it’s worth, Kos put up a picture of the birth certificate (if it’s genuine).

    No religion. Name Barack Hussein Obama II. Birth Date 8/4/61. Birth place Honolulu.

    The certificate number has been blacked out. Why, if the document is genuine and we’ve seen all the rest of it?

  214. Ok, I didn’t run back to the mouse hole, went to take my disabled sis to the doc, but when I come back there are several responses to my posting. Whee! I feel like one of the gang now. Enough about me, starting to feel like Golden Boy.

    However, could I point out that not every Dem is pro-choice? I am, but another sister is a lifelong Dem who believes in access to contraception, abortion under some conditions, but is uneasy about complete pro-choice. She’s not a one-issue voter, and always felt comfortable in the big tent of Democrats. She always thought Dems stood for so many good things, but she cannot abide Obama, and says even if he came out against abortion, she’s voting McCain

  215. Denise B. – A poster on No Quarter says the document is a fake. I don’t know if it is or not.

  216. I am sure there will be problems in Denver this year. There was a huge WTO protest in Seattle a few years back. A bunch of kids (claimed to be anarchists – I guess) who were interested in raising hell showed up for some fun vandalism and fights.

    Maybe since that bunch would be obama type supporters, they will be too busy to bother with being disruptive… but I think there will be those folks looking to exploit any protest activity and turn the whole thing into a war zone.

  217. parentofed: Don’t know Ed but he has a nice parent.

    They cannot use the Roe v Wade argument against us anymore. Some of us are past the age where it would have any meaning. We fought for that right and Hillary was with us. Obama, who knows. With his newfound “religious friends” deals could be made to win votes. That is how bad it is.

    Obama’s 20 something females should have considered Hillary’s accomplishments over the years and not fallen in line with Mr. I Ain’t Got Nothing Rock Star. Would not trust him as far as I can throw him.

  218. Good grief – I just read an email from Clinton-Dems-Against Obama -there is an article saying that the US caused the earthquake in China…………it’s not only our country going to hell – the whole freakin’ world is caught up in this crap – makes my head hurt – gotta go take a break ……………………….later

  219. Turning “older women” into a slur is sickening. But he can’t undo this meme very much, because generational loathing (not to mention sexism) is the foundation on which his appeal to young people is based.

    What I gathered from the last year in the orange place: they don’t care who he his or what he believes in or what he’s going to do. What they care about is that he’s “their” candidate and that he demeans baby boomers (of course, they had to redefine what baby boomers are to exclude him, but that’s OK).

    At this point I think he could retreat a bit from this, having already gained the undying loyalty of the kids who resent their elders, but I don’t think he’ll change a winning strategy (or I should say “winning”). And he really does believe we’ll mostly come around. The strategy was so blatant that he must have known in the beginning that he would lose older voters and had a plan to replace them somehow.

  220. “Arabella Trefoil, on June 12th, 2008 at 8:32 am Said:
    I’m sure the convention will feature a big religious opening. I see a huge cross on the podium. People will march in formation. Blazing torches. Crying spectators. At the end, Obama will climb down from the cross and people will faint.”

    LOL! How about getting Cirque du Soleil involved?

  221. Robin,

    Cirque de Soleil is involved in this campaign. How do you think BZero can run with his head up his a$$?

  222. You know Pat, schools for the most part are fair to female students. They aren’t told they can’t do things because they are girls anymore. They probably don’t notice the woman profs can’t get tenure – or think it is just because those women profs are too old and whiney or something.

    They haven’t hit the workplace. They haven’t tried to make a case for a business direction only to have men talk over them and then re-present same idea… “WOW, now THAT really is a great idea, Bob!”

    They haven’t gone on maternity leave yet… they haven’t had to do most of the housework for family, take all the time off for kid appointments, can’t work late without planning ahead… to find they take a hit on performance reviews. They don’t know and they think *we* are old and crazy feminists for no reason or that somehow the reason doesn’t exist anymore and we didn’t figure it out.

    Roe v Wade? I don’t think they *get* the larger issue – who is in charge of a woman?

  223. I want the full contingent of the Trinity Broadcast Network up there as well. Especially that Jan with the pink wig and mascara running down her cheeks everytime she utters the word “Jesus”. I sometimes click over there when I am really bored just to see what emotional manipulation they have on sale for the day.

    These people are the epitome of snake oil salesman.

    Oh and by the way, it is being suggested that Hillary does the Stations of the Cross with Obama on her back. She will deposit him on the stage and then disappear forever.

  224. Damn clients don’ t they know I am trying to blog, going to read the other thread.

  225. Somehow I can’t see the Obamabots protesting in Denver–not in a real threatening way. Maybe some other groups will be brought in, some battle hardened oldies. But the young ones???? Will there be a Starbucks handy? With Wi/Fi access? Enought bottled water and organic salad? And what about clean rr facilities–not those nasty port-a-potties that the masses use? It could just be too inconvenient-especially without money from mom.

  226. kc: You may be overlooking the Farrakhan contingent with the perpetual sunglasses and the bow ties. That is one scary group.

  227. prolix – I think this has to be the funniest comment of the week!

    “Cirque de Soleil is involved in this campaign. How do you think BZero can run with his head up his a$$?”

  228. Wow, that DKos diary really takes ya back, doesn’t it? What I don’t understand is how a diary that gets the writer banned would still be available to read.

  229. Pat, this is completely antecdotal, but my 30-year old daughter says if older women are thinking that young women are grateful to us for women’s rights, we are very much mistaken. She, of course, is a Hillary supporter. I raised that kid right.

    Kim mentioned bra-burning. Yeah, I went to bra-burning bonfires in the late 60s, then went into underwires, etc later. Lately, I just hate the damn things, think they cause heartburn or something. Kept thinking I had to “keep the girls up,” but I think I’m reverting. I’m sometimes go without, and just say screw the jiggle. Maybe part of it is this current atmosphere of disrespect toward women and seniors. Why bother being uncomfortable for those people?

  230. kc – I’m not thinking actual voters will be a problem. I’m thinking kids who probably won’t vote but like to have a fun time breaking windows and intimidating ‘grown-ups’… They may say they are supporting obama, but I would doubt they took the time to register.

  231. prolix,

    LOL! You are hilarious!

  232. Parentofed: My daughter was telling me the other day that she is totally apolitical, then her republican boyfriend called and asked her if I was crying over Hillary’s loss.

    That child starting spewing stats and events and policies like a pro. She hung up and I just smiled and said, “not into it, huh?”

  233. Hello, Rich in PA,

    good to see you round…only a few of us comfortable posting back there too still, I see fabian too…

    Cheers Hard Workism!

  234. Well, I’m fired up now. We could take over the RNC just like we could take over the NRA. We are on the frontline of Democracy. Power to the Peaceful.

  235. Violet (yay, she’s back!) of Reclusive Leftist has a must-read overview of the Democratic Party and women over the past 40-plus years, her point being that we women now have the leverage we’ve never had before.


  236. This was absolutely incredible.

  237. Brilliant essay riverdaughter.

  238. Brava, Riverdaughter!

    Just one thing, though. You wrote:

    “…we’re not going to sign onto Obama without making him earn it.”

    “Earn it” implies he still has an opportunity down the road to win some of our votes. Sorry, but I’m one of the hard core Dems who say, uh-uh, no way. Obama and the DNC totally blew it this time. There is no earning any vote from me unless they make Hillary the nominee in August. Sorry, but where Obama is concerned, it’s “too little, too late.” Period.

  239. Fantastic article, RD.

    I can’t ever be convinced to vote for Obama, though. What he would have to do to earn my vote is impossible for him. He can’t gain the necessary experience, qualifications, judgment, decency, humility, or soul in the short time he has.

    He is too scarey. Give me the choice between an “old” McCain, and a corrupt Obama, and I’ll choose old for the presidency.

  240. BTW, I just checked into Daily Cheetoh and RD, you’ll be glad to know they are still smarting from your efforts. Your “I’m gonna sew a new hood” diary was just referenced the other day as, I believe, an example of the extreme hate practiced by Hillary supporters.

  241. Afternoon Conflunce members getting caught up in the blogisphere-

    well only have a few minutes before me and my dentiist have to doe-si-doe. Thank god my dentist is a good guy. He has taught me some times you have to endure a little(or alot) of discomfort to get the required results.

    Sounds like our problem here we are will to suffer through four years of McCain to get to the promised land of Hillary 2012!

    Our Obamabots are not like Varueca Salt in charlie and the choco factory “they want the world…they want the whole world…they want to lock it all up in their pockets…give it to them NOW!

    As Willie Wonka said “…there goes a very bad egg…”

    see you all later

    Love Fuzzybeargville
    Troll buster

  242. sorry that was supposed to be alot like Varuca Salt…my bad


  243. Hi dotcommodity: There’s something more than vaguely disreputable about having a presence there and here, as has been pointed out to me (here, since “there” doesn’t know that “here” exists, and I haven’t told them because you have enough unwelcome visitors already). But that’s my Divided Self.

  244. Hello everyone, I’m late tot he party, but I just wanted to say THANK YOU Riverdaughter for another great post.

    Betrayal – the Democratic Party betrayed DEMOCRACY.

    PUMAs all the way to November.

  245. http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0608/Obama_moves_DNC_operations_to_Chicago.html

    Mr BO is beginning to show an unquenchable thirst for power…well, i suppose daytime talk show high priestess, miss O, can report live from the scene now.

    Millions of us would love to know when in the history of campaigns someone running for the nomination/presidency was ever treated in the manner Senator Clinton has been treated thus far? Even Mr. Dean with a paltry 5.7% of the vote showed up on the convention floor in the last nomination cycle. He did not hand over his 103 delegates until the first day of the convention:


    Putting the mute button on voters does not bode well for August or November.

  246. Speaking of being low on accomplishments, even when Obama was head of Harvard Law Review, he put out an issue that is the least cited other articles (a measure of worth in the law world) of any HLR in the last 25 years. A normal citation record is 350-400 citations and his is just a little over 100. Guess he was a great leader there too.

  247. Appears Oprah has been hit for her Obama fest her viewership is down 7% and Ellen is # 1 on daytime talk. Maybe why Senator Obama is back peddling on gay rights?

    Love Fuzzybeargville

  248. Mawm and Charles, sorry, I think I was being a little facetious before about the eagles, but I think the symbology is interesting. The Obama eagle is obviously meant to look presidential, but with the American flag shield replaced with the Obama symbol (His Country) and in the context of the bullying etc. comes off as somewhat creepy to me.

  249. Great post. However, there is no way I am voting Dem this year.

  250. […] the next dictator from the other part of the bag of mice. I hope I am wrong. Update The awesome Riverdaughter has weighted in the same thought – how can I not add what she […]

  251. Great post riverdaughter! You are by far my favorite blogger to read!

    And I liked the line abou how it is easier to coral a herd of cats then the people of the Democratic party!! Excellent!

    But no, I’m not voting for Obama this year under any circumstances. At all.

  252. […] "Heart" Riverdaughter Posted on June 12, 2008 by bluelyon Walk it back, Dr. Dean Walk it back, Dr. Dean. Better get Obama to stop ignoring those of us he *thinks* he has in his […]

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