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Monday: Obama Pod People

We last few remnants of the “shrieking band of paranoid holdouts” are now under attack. Remember the NYTimes article from just a few days ago where Claire McCaskill said that the Obama camp would wait a respectful few days so we could get over it and then they would launch another assault? Well, it looks like it’s here.

In the past day, The Confluence, Corrente, Reclusive Leftist, Anglachel and others have seen a number of pod people showing up in the comments. They *say* they are regulars but for some reason, they speak the language of the converted. Ahh, conversion diaries. It takes me back to my DKos days, even before the primary season began. There was no better way to make the recommended list than to claim you were a recovering Republican or Iraq War enthusiast. Well, who doesn’t want to belong? It gives the listener a sense of security. The new person is like US! Love bombing follows, group identities are formed. It even happens here to a certain extent.

But this is forced. It comes from some external source. It takes on our identities but it is not one of us. There’s no emotion. It’s empty.

What is the point exactly? It’s not like we can’t identify these imposters pretty quickly. We know how to read an IP address. Yes, believe it or not, Obamaphiles, there are a few of us Clintonistas who have the nollij. We can reed and rite and doo rithmatik too. It’s amazing how good special ed is these days.

But why go the psychological warfare route? It seems like the lazy way out. Is it more effective to make us feel overwhelmed, helpless in the face of an insurmountable wave of Obamaphilia, to condition us to learned helplessness? “Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated” Why not try to win us over with the force of the policy proposals, committments to our causes, understanding and acknowledgment of the principles we hold dear? Is that just too hard or is it because you don’t want to?

But here’s an even better question? Why bother at all? We’re just little asteroids floating along in the blogoverse, our carbon footprints barely noticeable amidst all of the bigger and more numerous pieces of space debris. The amount of attention now dedicated to bringing us into compliance seems inversely proportional to our importance.

Or is it?

Maybe you guys need us after all.

One more thing: Anglachel has posted several parts of a series this past weekend that are really worth your attention. Check out, The Frontlines of Democracy, Bittersweet Acceptance and Partisan. Highly recommended. Other interesting posts: The Ghost of Violet Socks poses a question in Through the Looking Glass. Why is Obama’s nomination more historic that Hillary’s? (BTW, Violet could use some filthy lucre to keep the server gods appeased. If you have a few bucks, you might want to visit her PayPal link) Lambert at Corrente likens the political system to a pimple in The Village is a Sack of Pus Waiting to Burst. Such an evocative title.

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193 Responses

  1. That would be ″futile″, not ″useless″. Amateurs…

  2. Picky, picky.

  3. I would just post their IPs. I know a Clinton supporter who has since changed his mind. He does not post here, but it does happen. Posting IPs/e-mails would probably cut down on the fake stuff asap.

    Normally I would not advocate this. However, this is more than disagreement, it is more than a tit for tat exchange or even namecalling. It is deception and the strength of their argument depends on their authenticity.

  4. Ryan: Let’s just say that we are still collecting the data and that the ISP will be notified.

  5. Unity is the last thing on my mind. I read the LA Times Sunday article on Clinton’s speech calling for unity and some of the comments that followed. Pro-Obama comments suggest we are just too stupid to realize that McCain is a terrible candidate and that not voting for Obama is just childish. Don’t they realize some of us have principles? That we have consciences that prevent us from voting for a man who despises the majority of white people, who keeps as regular company people who are criminals, who retains his Kenyan citizenship even though he is poised to be president of the United States? Where is his loyalty to the U.S.? Where is his pride in America? I won’t vote for either Obama or McCain, but if McCain is president, I will know at least that a man who cares about America is in the White House. I don’t think McCain is McBush at all. Bush didn’t love America; he and Cheney let his buddies loot America and Iraq. Obama will be the same. It will all about power and not at all about what is good for the country. More like Obamush.

  6. futile. and sad. my blackout of the MSM is total at this point. Are OFB surrogates really talking about us like that? Are they still whistling past the graveyard?

  7. I now love Obama. Michelle is my hero. Hillary is the devil. Howard Dean for VP.

  8. chimera: I get your point but we don’t really engage in rumormongering around here. Can we prove that Obama despises most white people. cavorts with criminals and is retaining his Kenyan citizenship?
    He may only despise *some* white people, just like I do. Maybe he didn’t know that his buddies were criminals. And does he even *have* Kenyan citizenship? We need verification of this.

  9. Buchanan mentioned on the McLaughlin Report that if Obama is down 8-10 points on the run up to the convention, he will have to ask Hillary to be the VP. Does he know about upcoming Repub attacks on him? I think he is in the outs with the Repub elite but he does have connections in right wing circles.

  10. chimera — Movement fundamentalists always overestimate the power of their “truth.” They are flabbergasted that we actually have the power to bring their movement crashing down. They are just starting to realize how much power we have to humiliate and make them a historical laughing-stock. Forget Perot, Nader and the rest. The rise and fall of the Obama Movement will be the greatest laughingstock in the history of cult political movements.

  11. Murphy, on June 9th, 2008 at 8:36 am Said:

    [snip snip]
    The rise and fall of the Obama Movement will be the greatest laughingstock in the history of cult political movements.

    But, but McGovern!

  12. I used to have a shirt that showed an eagle swooping down on a mouse, and the mouse is flipping the bird to the eagle.

    It was titled “The last great act of defiance.”

    They are wasting their time trying to convert or intimidate me. I don’t GAF

  13. I am enjoying the attempts at outreach. It is as if they were all sent to Saul Alinsky missionary school last week. There is a Methodist dropped into China feel to it.

  14. Chimera:

    There are certain things we shouldn’t say without proof.

    Obamanation would love to be able to discredit us as racists or conspiracy nuts.

    There’s no need anyway. We have plenty of other reasons to oppose The Precious.

  15. Without prejudice to anyone’s desire to vote however they like in November, can i ask for a big deep breath and a big step backwards for a moment? Thus far, in this nascent comments thread, I have seen a defense of John McCain, an invocation of Pat Buchanan as if he’s someone to be listened to, and a (perfunctory) trashing of George McGovern. None of this is pleasant reading, and I don’t mean it in the “unpleasant truths” sense, I mean it in the “whoa, that’s crazy talk” sense.

  16. Regarding Pod People: My immediate family (me, husband & kids) are all still firmly Hillary Supporters. My son’s girl friend is heartbroken about Obama’s status as “Presumed Nominee.”

    She is a VERY sweet woman with a severely disabled 8 year old daughter. And I get the feeling from talking to her that no politician before Hillary ever touched her at all.

    The weird thing about the Obama candidacy is that there are so many and varied valid reasons for his lack of support among Democrats. From the who-knows-if-they’re-true concerns of chimera (which could be easily disputed and cleared up but we know from Kerry still incredibly damaging to a candidates campaign) to his total lack of “experience” (which is to say he’s barely held a full-time job in his life) to questions about his values (While he’s not responsible for the actions of his friends some people wonder about the pattern if having so many friends with “extreme” beliefs is an indication of his own outlook)

    It goes on and on.

    His “followers” can attempt to shoot down one or two. But they can’t give him job experience that he doesn’t have. They can’t recall the videos of his bizarre friends. They can’t rewrite his books.

    The sad truth is that throughout the primary season Obama LOST support — the more voters know about him the less likely they are to vote for him.

    The Pod People can try to overwhelm us with their sniping attacks, but they can’t handle the truth: Obama is a loser for Democrats.

    And if The Summer of Revelations is successful — maybe it will turn out that it won’t be the Super Delegates that determine the winner. Maybe it will be Pledged Delegates switching their loyalties.

    (Monday is for Dreaming)

  17. Heh, for those of you just waking up that need something to do, read my very long rant on this primary season. So far it’s gotten rave reviews since I posted it around 4 this morning. Just tap that link up there with my name on it.

    Everybody know how they’re gonna advocate for Democracy today?

  18. Rich in PA, I have no reason to trash McGovern. But I do know how he did in the General Election. Come on, if that isn’t worth trashing somebody then Madonna is my cousin.

    And let’s admit Pat Buchanan has been oddly receptive to the concerns of Hillary supporters this whole time. I don’t know whose strategy this entire primary cycle has been but it sure seem Republican. I even like Joe Scarborough and I hate him a few years back. I think he was insulting Bill back then. Grrr.

  19. Rich:

    I listen to and respect Pat Buchanon. I don’t agree with him very often, but he he says what he thinks. I respect people who don’t try to bullshit.

    Listening to people you don’t agree with keeps you out of the echo chamber too.

    OTOH – I go out to listen to alternative voices, I don’t like them following me home.

  20. “…..you will be assimilated” Why not try to win us over with the force of the policy proposals, committments to our causes, understanding and acknowledgment of the principles we hold dear? Is that just too hard or is it because you don’t want to?..”
    ———————–
    This is why (watch the video). This is their candidate. You are asking them to defend the indefensible especially in light of a better alternative.

    (about the video snippet, I am not going to give him any break. This tells the tale of inexperience and to some extent incompetence. He is even picking on an audience member as he realizes his weakness as if that person was the cause. Those of us go in front of audiences big and small for a living know exactly what is going on.)

  21. Sure Rich, you can ask.

  22. Rich, I mentioned Buchanan based on political strategy not on his ideas, and I do think he has a clever (and devious) political mind. What’s “crazy” about speculating about a Repub attack(s) on our Democratic presumptuous nominee?

  23. While I might be masochistic at heart, I do listen to those who have diametrically opposed opinions to mine. I like to know what the enemy is saying and to the extent possible, what they are thinking.

    As for the infiltrators, they aren’t really sending their A students — enough said.

  24. Rich in PA: I agree. It’s been crazy talk this year. I almost fell off my chair when Obama praised Republicans has being the party of ideas. And all the nice things he said about Reagan? And how about how he seemed determined to write Bill Clinton out of the history books?
    Or remember when he dissed Florida and Michigan?
    Now that I think of it, the blogger boyz have been awfully forgiving of their former enemies in the right wing media. Why, they’ve completely adopted the “Hillary Clinton is a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad person!” routine. And it worked! Amazing. I never thought I’d see the day.
    Ehhh, Pat and Joe and Fox are in the entertainment *business*. If they didn’t throw us a bone every now and then, they’d lose ad dollars. It’s nothing more than that.
    Let’s be careful out there people.

  25. What I don’t understand is why they aren’t just overjoyed with their “win” tainted as it is. Has anyone ever seen such a bunch of whiny-a$$ed , crybaby little WINNERS? What’s with that? Still pyst off over winning? (cheating more like but I really am trying to be nice.)

    Funny thing is that my neighbors whom I take great care NOT to discuss politics with, their ginormous “Bush Cheney” lawn sign shaded my front yard so much even marigolds refused to grow, now shakes his head in disgust with his party. He loathes John McCain. I shake my head in disgust with my party. I loathe Obama.

    Now if he’d just replace those damn marigolds all would be forgiven.

  26. “…………be the Super Delegates that determine the winner. Maybe it will be Pledged Delegates switching their loyalties.”
    ————-
    Katiebird, I have thought about this too. All along, it is the people who seem to have no dog in this fight other than to elect the best qualified person and win in November. It will be a true democracy, if the pledged delegates came to a different realization in the convention, wouldn’t it? It also reminds me the story out of CA where Obama tried to replace 900 of his delegates with his own minions — he did not trust the people then. Wonder why!

  27. I wish there were a spray for pod people. Didn’t I see pod-be-gone on the shelf the other day? Hey pod people, if Obama is so great, why hasn’t he created or co-created any significant bills his entire career? Why after 47 years does he say he hadn’t really decided if life begins at conception yet? What is he waiting for? What has he every really done, for anyone? Crickets.

  28. O’pods know that DK, TM, HP and TL are pro Lightworker sites, right?

  29. I’m astonished at how nervous and insecure the Obombapod people are about his supposed “nomination”… not a lot of confidence there…

    So, good morning! I think things may change before August (adjusts Minnie Pearl hat at a cocky angle, spits tobacco juice in the direction of pod people).

  30. “spits tobacco juice in the direction of pod people”.

    Heh. Sorry, OldCoastie, Katiebird is our official spitter around here.

    Good morning to you too!

  31. Hearing what people like Rove and Buchanan have to say about this election is rather interesting. Yes, they have motives but, geesh, have you listened to other TV pundits? What about their motives–Olbermann, Matthews, Andrea Mitchell, CNN, etc etc. Tell me where to draw the line?

    MSNBC/CNN = Obama campaign: Why would I watch that anymore than I would click on a link to HuffPost or TPM or Kos.

  32. ahh, Upstate! you mean I knocked out my two front teeth (for better spittin’ distance and accuracy) for nothing?!?

    I will join Katiebird any day for a spitting contest. Especially at the pods – we can use ’em for target practice.

  33. saw Rove this weekend on some Faux broadcast commenting about the Dem nom – he looked like the cat that swallowed the canary. He couldn’t stop smiling.

  34. Heh, It was not for nothing, OldCoastie.

    Lots of “toothless” people at this site.

  35. jm,

    I agree with your sentiments, but I will turn on MessNBC for one reason, to fire me up. I find such great examples of idiocy that you just can’t find anywhere else.

    The one person I wonder about more than the others though — Andrea Mitchell. She has a storied career that she seems to have thrown out the window on this campaign. Hubby Greenspan was so lauded by Pres. Clinton, I wonder what the back story is. It couldn’t have been for a lack of praise, I just wonder what curdled her so badly on Hillary.

  36. The Pod blogs have truly gone over the edge. Huffington had a map of the US yesterday entirely in blue – they honestly believe in the 50 state strategy and that he can win it all.

    Pat Buchanan has always had a soft spot for the little guy – remember his pitchfork. He and Lou Dobbs know Hillary will fight for the average Joe. When Obama explained his health care plan I thought – does this guy even know a poor person?

    Yesterday our local paper had a column that started, “Barack Obama won ugly”. Today they have a column talking about his health care plan saying it’s not universal. She ((Froma Harrop) writes, “So forgiving was their love of Mr. Big that they virtually abandoned what should have been the Democrats’ most potent promise: medical coverage for all.

    Hillary’s case is being made now they think she’s out. The press is our worst enemy.

  37. The Republicans have been laughing at us for a month. They couldn’t believe that we’d actually nominate the weaker candidate. Now, they’re a little scared because they’re beginning to think a whole half of the country’s gone off their rocker.

    That empty peanut shell–President?! Not while their watching. I imagine we’ll see more hanging chads and spoiled ballots than ever. The question this time will be who did the cheating?

  38. RD,

    I just want to say thanks again. I know it’s boring, but I am so grateful for your site and your thoughts.

    Back to lurking! 🙂

  39. prolix, agreed on Mitchell. She has had a great journalism career–but her commentary has been appalling during this primary.

    I just ventured over to taylormarsh.com–I swore off it on Saturday. This morning–wow! The comments there are just awful. Trolls, pods, galore. Same people post a comment every couple of minutes. Stirring the pot. Sad that Taylor would let it go the way it has–I really like her writing.

  40. UNY – 😉

  41. “…..you will be assimilated” Why not try to win us over with the force of the policy proposals, committments to our causes, understanding and acknowledgment of the principles we hold dear? Is that just too hard or is it because you don’t want to?..”

    They can’t win on this front. They have no ideas. All they have is race-baiting, vote-stealing, and Clinton Derangement Syndrome.

  42. off to work, but I’m with Anglachel – I’m not leaving the party because of some thugs… the pods can’t run me out… I’m one of the 18 million and we need to find a way to use The Power.

  43. To anybody with a dollar or 5 to spare, send them Hillary’s way. We don’t want her to owe Barack Obama a dime. She became the People’s nominee on her own, she can pay her own way.

    Use this link if you please: tinyurl.com/yvcvx4

    If you become assimilated to the Collective (aka Unity Bush) let this be your last act of penance.

  44. The Republicans I think also can’t believe how badly the Democratic party handled this — managing to alienate so many essential voters.

    It really is an achievement.

  45. I saw this on nq it needs to be read by all the “old” democrats:

    When I had finally had enough a few weeks ago, I did the unthinkable. I drove to the republican headquarters. When I drove into the parking lot I was feeling really sick to my stomach. Literally, I was about to throw up. I sat in my truck for a few minutes reflecting on my family’s three generations of being yellow dog democrats. I remember my parents being the only ones in the county who subscribed to the liberal opinion. They actually use to send them extra copies because they were the only ones in that zip code who subscribed and asked if they could put some at hospitals, waiting rooms, etc. My parents always told me the republicans would never be your friend and that democrats were the only ones who would look out for us – the blue collar working class.

    I remembered all the meetings and rallies my parents took me to as a child. The bumper stickers that were free and to a kid anything that is free and sticks to something was good. I remembered my parents going to all the save the mountains meetings and writing letters to editors in a state that almost always voted republican. I admired them so much for their years of supporting the party that they were sure would be there for them. My parents were both born during the depression and they were of the mindset that you never throw anything away. I guess it came from the hard times when you made something out of nothing. I remembered the quilts of my grandmother who used the old dresses and flour sacks to make the beautiful warm comforting covers that kept them warm when there was not oil enough to heat the furnace. When my parents died I went through their house to clear away the memories of their lives for the new owners. I looked into the many boxes in my parents attic and saw that my mother had kept every campaign button she had ever worn. All those bumper stickers all those names. What a woman and what a man. What devotion.

    My parents have both passed away within the last five years. I wondered if they would be disappointed in me by going to the republican headquarters. I couldn’t believe that I was actually beginning to cry and turned my truck around. I was on my way home and had decided that I needed to vote for the democratic nominee whomever that may be and at that time it was looking like the fix was in for Obama/Marxist and there was nothing to keep it from happening. Wasn’t that what my parents would have wanted?

    Although most of family are farmers, my father enlisted in the Navy when he was young and eventually became one of the first groups to be called “Frogmen” that is what they called them before they were “Seals”. My father was a proud man. He fought in Viet Nam in the beginning and was there before we even declared war. My oldest brother volunteered to go in 1968 as a corpsman in the Navy and served two tours of duty before we got the telegram that day that he had been wounded. I will never forget the look on my mother’s face when she answered the door and how tears of joy streamed down her fact when she read he was only wounded.

    Why were all these things flooding my head as I sat in my truck? I feel like it was my parents way of saying to me NOT to go home. But, to march into the republican headquarters. I did that. I went in and it was beautiful. Nice furniture, plasma televisions on FOX, nice air freshener. So this was the world that THEY lived in. I had been use to the democratic headquarters my whole life. The make the best with what you got with the little bit of money you have to get our democrat in office. I could feel my heart beating and I was afraid. Could I really cross over to the other side?

    Somehow I got the strength to say:

    I am here to get a McCain bumper sticker. I will keep it on hand and if and when the democratic party decides to nominate Obama/Marxist then I will put it on my truck. I will not join your party. I want to make that clear. I do not believe in most of what your platform stands for and do not waste your time trying to win me over. I am here to give my vote not to the republican party but to take my vote away from my party’s affirmative action candidate and send a message to the “new” democratic party. I may be one vote but you will never get my vote. My vote represents the three generations of yellow dog democrats in my family who stood against many enemies of America and we will stand against this one who has come into my family’s party and done what wars and depression could never do – try to take it away from the very people who built it.

    So, I know this is a long post but I want every “new” democrat to understand that you may not question my family’s patriotism, you may not question my family’s loyalty to the democratic party. You will not degrade my blue collar roots and you will have to take control of my family’s party by stealing it.

    My father and mother would be proud. We have fought wars against Marxism and every other Ism but this war for my family’s party is one I will fight on … for my mother and father.

    NO OBAMA/MARXIST
    HILLARY OR MCAIN 2008

  46. They try to scare us with the same things – women’s rights, the Iraq war, and labeling McCain as Bush.

    But it seems both sides have decided there will be no debates with moderators. If Obama can give his side reading a telepromter he will come across as inspirational and eloquent.

    His head turning from left to right and never looking straight at the camera drives be insane.

  47. I think Andrea Mitchell may be off her meds (or needs to go see someone about getting on them). I remember thinking this first when she was interviewing Hillary with Joe S I think and she said something snarky(wish I could remember) and then followed the question with “what up with dat”. very weird…..

  48. they’re using the arguments on us that worked on them. as someone upthread said, we have principles; they want to belong.

    my life’s work has been trying to get mental health services for people the rest of society doesn’t care about- the homeless, the disabled, immigrants, and all the other folks who for some reason can’t get on the republican prosperity express like all of obama’s latte-sipping , libertarian supporters.

    by an amazing coincidence, my politics reflects my life’s work. abandoning those who can’t help themselves to the adverse outcomes of social darwinism is just as wrong for obama to do as it was for the republicans to do. it’s wrong.

    and until that magical unity pony starts shitting solid blocks of universal health care WITH mandates AND mental health parity, giving all the kids and/or chronically ill people out there the care they need to function in society, i’m really not interested in how many other people are supporting obama, or why.

  49. flying out the door but… I get those fund raising letters from bo and I always respond… I’m thinking we bring as much pressure to bear for Hillary’s policies, so now I’m demanding (in a “you want my vote? you better get busy earning it” kinda way) real universal health care and an investigation as to why we are getting enroned on the gas prices…

    it’s a in-the-meantime thing… power – let’s use it! back talk, back talk, back talk… bring pressure every day.

  50. sign petition to ask Hillary to go to the Convention
    http://www.womenforfairpolitics.com/petition2.aspx?p=1

  51. Charlotte, that’s the problem I have with NQ. They do use ″Marxist″ a lot.

  52. My husband is starting to say Barry would be better than McCain. (((Primal PUMA scream!)))

  53. Gary,

    I think it all has to do with the numbers. MessNBC’s morning show with Joe S. and Polly wanna Mika is pulling the same as Imus did for them. Zucker never did know the difference between entertainment and news so they have watered it down to infotainment with a bent for the blogger boyz crowd.

  54. This is my first comment here. I do not agree with the tactics Sen. Obama employed throughout this campaign, nor do I agree with the actions of the DNC or the Democratic Party. I was disenfranchised, then discounted. Opposing views are silenced by accusations of racism. Democratic ideals sacrificed on the altar to Obama. SCOTUS and 100 yrs. Iraq War threats will not work. IMO federally protected reproductive rights are on life support with the ban of partial birth abortions; where were the Obamabots during the Roberts and Alito hearings? Pres. Obama will not remove troops from Iraq (Samantha Power’s interview on British TV stating that quick troop removal was a best case scenario to be re-evaluated), as for UHC, he’s against it ( “Harry and Louise ads”). There’s nothing Sen. Obama can say or do to earn my vote. Obamabots do not waste your time and energy on me.

  55. Hi, FLVoter. Welcome!

  56. Thanks UpstateNY. It is nice to feel welcomed again.

  57. Charles,

    Governing is not a part of equation for someone whose life has been a search for “who they are” as he said in his books. What we see is nothing more than an exercise on a grand scale of “self-worth” chasing.

    If governing at any level was part of his psyche, he wouldn’t have run for higher office every 3 years for the last twelve.

  58. The reason I will vote AGAINST Obama is purely principles. If we do not defeat Obama, there will be no party that represents the working class. The Democratic party will stand for race-baiting, and vote stealing. Only by handing them the most humiliating of defeats will the party attempt to get back to its roots.

    RoeVWade and Iraq are not as important as making sure we have a Democracy. Obama campaign stole this election, and if we allow that to stand by voting for Obama, we will not have a Democracy come November 5th.

  59. Charles: I normally do not have much a problem with the posts there, but the comment sections are, lets say, ‘different”.

    That, by the way, was my problem with TM too, but to a lesser extent.

    Of course, DK and HP are still the best. It must be an Ex-R and Reagan D, thing.

  60. Hello, I need help, if someone could give me the link or direct me in the right direction I would so appreciate it.

    I am having an argument with my co worker because he says that Obama’s legislative record is more substantial than Hillary’s which is so full of crap, I saw something from factcheck.org on this but can not find it. Can someone help me?

  61. Pat Buchanan seems like an affable guy and I’m sure he has sound strategic judgment. But he is serially sympathetic to racism and he has just published a book claiming that the US and UK were wrong to contest Hitler’s domination of Europe. At what point do we decide that it’s just not worth it to pay attention to him? I’m at that point and then some.

    For the post that suggested (by simply asserting it in capital letters) that Obama is a Marxist, I have two things to say. First, Marxism is a respectable way of understanding the world, and if there’s a better way I haven’t seen it. Second, Obama is no Marxist: he privileges noneconomic over economic factors in understanding the world, and that’s one of the reasons I prefer Clinton. Neither of them are Marxists in any solid analytical sense, and certainly not in any operational sense (of wanting socialist revolution), but if we’re giving out Marxism points Clinton gets more than Obama and that’s why I like her.

  62. I used to like Buchanan on Cross Fire. I thought he would get more support in his run for president. He has a great sense of humor – he laughs at himself all the time.

    Charles, you’re right, it’s his read of the political situation. But this week on McLaughlin he said that Obama was articulate. That’s NOT TRUE. He mumbles and bumbles unless he’s reading his speech.

  63. COMMUNITY ADVISORY:

    We had another visitor last night using the name “o-bot” who appears to be the same person as “barbara.” So if o-bot comes back again, please just ignore him/her.

  64. Michelle in Philly –

    Here you go.

    I favorited that factcheck.org piece because that stupid email was everywhere.

  65. I am sorry some people thought I was rumormongering. I thought the recent conviction of Tony Rezko and the indictment of Robert Blackwell, Jr. suggested Obama did keep company with criminals. I thought the admission of Bill Ayers that he bombed helped bombed the Pentagon, although he was never convicted, was criminal act. I thought the fact that Kenya grants citizenship to all children born of Kenyan nationals, which Obama is, and that Obama has dual citizenship, is a true statement. He never rejected his Kenyan citizenship and claims it in his book. And I personally think his references to white people show a disdain for them, which is an opinion. Personally, I think using the word cracker to describe a white person (see again Obama’s own books) is a hate-term. So I wasn’t intending to spread rumors or half-truths. Two are facts; one is opinion. These are reasons I can’t vote for Obama. I have no desire to smear him. Why is what I wrote worse than calling him homophobic? Where is the proof of that?

  66. It takes on our identities but it is not one of us. There’s no emotion. It’s empty.

    ain’t that the truth? Particularly when they are doing the concern troll olive branch stuff. There is an amazing LACK of emotion. Emotion only kicks in when they are tearing Hillary and her supporters down. Their idea of unity is you being in the belly of the beast. Like I and an a low infomation ham sandwich for lunch will soon have unity. Let the healing begin!

  67. RD! & co….chimera I agree on McC plus knowing about war
    but! don’t forget this, ever….

    http://www.pbs.org/stantonanthony/

    I saw something great over at Clinton.dems re the media

    http://clintondems.com/2008/06/letter-challenging-media-complicity/#comment-2505

    Hillary started off Repub (read the wiki) then became Dem during Nixon time. How does this relate to now? We can switch, because of what we have seen so far. Remember the old line from feminism “the personal is the political” well that is how it works. Feminism means “boycott” when something is wrong. Your vote is the boycott! Easy. We boycotted grapes during Chavez in the 70’s—no grapes!

    US News had this on McCain’s military history—he is a total hero. One thing he did? He could have been released “the easy way”
    in light of the mess in the Middle East? If we can’t have Hillary–do you want O who has never even been a soldier? I don’t. Not with the possibility of nuclear.
    http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/2008/01/28/john-mccain-prisoner-of-war-a-first-person-account.html
    I marched in the vietnam war peace marches at this time—in my tweens.
    There are people saying a McCain Clinton 08 over at NQ.
    My sentiments exactly. We need some grown ups right now, in charge…

  68. BB: will do.

    We are supposed to reach 96 today…What about you?

  69. While I do not agree with the Marxist in the post, it does show how many democrats who are democrats by tradition feel about Obama.

    I would say that there are many blue collar workes which the poster clearly is feel this same way. This I feel will be a real problem for Obama.

    I am not sure how he will bring these people over in November. We will see it should be an interesting few months before the election.

  70. Charlotte: “This I feel will be a real problem for Obama.”

    Si, un gran problema.

  71. McCain/Clinton – that would be a unity ticket. They like each other. They’ve worked together. I would vote that ticket in a heartbeat.

  72. Rich, I think we all find Buchanan’s political ideas repulsive. Personally, I vehemently disagree with his immigration stance. By mentioning his opinion or his talk on political strategy (which he does a lot and right on the money in some cases), that doesn’t mean we (or I) are subscribing to his world view.

  73. Michelle in Philly,

    Obama’s legislative record (even if the email about his record’s superiority was true) is only part of the “experience” issue.

    Hillary has a lifetime of substantial experience. Gary wrote several posts comparing their histories and it’s astonishing. He’s barely held a full time job. His resume is an embarrassment for a 47 year old man. For a quick example read the Biography pages for each of the candidates. Even Obama himself can’t pump his experience beyond a couple of paragraphs. Hillary’s in contrast goes on and on — it’s an incredible record of achievement.

  74. Hi UpstateNY,

    We are supposed to only hit the high 80’s today, but it was already 77 early this morning and the humidity is so high that it feels much hotter than it is. Tomorrow we are going to go way up in the 90s too. I think we are getting thundershowers today. I’m surviving so far. I heard it will cool down to the 70s later this week, so there is something to look forward to.

  75. Madamab, Thank you so much, this is what I was looking for

  76. Michelle in Philly – Anytime! 🙂

  77. I am still struggling through what is the best decision.

    Much as I loathe the slimy campaign, and the DNC stupidity in willfully pushing the mostly likely to fail candidate, I still want to influence policy (What does that crazy bitch WANT?) and Senate races (to influence policy), and for that purpose I am returning to the eco kossack diaries, which are thankfully relatively free of Clinton Derangement Syndrome.

    We can’t get as much good policy passed from outside.

    “OldCoastie,
    off to work, but I’m with Anglachel – I’m not leaving the party because of some thugs… the pods can’t run me out… I’m one of the 18 million and we need to find a way to use The Power.”

    I agree totally. We are the true FDRClintonDemocrats, and the Thug takeover can only be resisted from inside the party. Thats where I am too at this point…

    As far as using our 18 million power: lets pass her UHC and her carbonfree eco policy:

    The fact that Hillary got such a huge surge of new voters in Oklahoma, home of (globalwarmingisahoax) Sen. Inohofe, is very exciting!

    Andrew Rice is running against him. That is one RED state I want Hillary to work her butt off in, because if we can get Inohofe out of the Senate, we could potentially cause the same kind of seachange that happened in the 70s to get the Clean Air Act passed.

    It was the same situation then as now, fossilfools were obstructing passage. We flowerchildren dumped them out and the terrified remainder sat up and did our bidding! And Nixon (Nixon!) had to sign it!

    If anyone wants to work with me on environmental policy, join the eco kossacks prepublication notification group, to weigh in when eco diaries post in the deserted marble halls… And I understand both decisions, I myself vacillate dailly!

    (Partly, I blame the lousy public education these youtube generation kids got. The reading comprehension abilities are not what we oldies have, and we must help the next generation do better or their civics IQ will be even more impaired than these easily astroturfed kids…)

  78. kbird, ronk, bb, gary, rd, litigator et al.

    This is for you.

    Give them hell, I say, and thanks, for defending our own little piece of Zion

    I must now go find me (and son) an a/c household. Later.

  79. I have the same problem with all the commenters on NQ who say Obama is far left and a even a “Commie” or “Marxist.” They sound like Nixon Republicans. Obama is no Marxist. If he were, he wouldn’t have advisors like Goosbee and all the rest, and he wouldn’t have all those Wall Street backers. Obama is the furthest thing from an ideologue. He has publicly stated that he doesn’t believe in ideology, only “what works.” I assume that means what works for him and his wealthy backers. Obama is utterly corrupt, IMO. He will do whatever he has to do to gain power and he will install his corrupt backers in positions of power the same way Bush did.

    Rich in PA, if you want to vote for Obama just because he’s the Democratic nominee, that’s fine. I personally will not vote for McCain. But I do think every person’s vote is their own. Most Hillary supporters who talk about voting for McCain are doing this as a strategy. Very few of us live in swing states. Only those who vote for McCain in swing states are actually going to be influencing the final result–unless Obama is another McGovern or Mondale, which I suspect may be the case.

  80. rescue please. See you later. If I show up reencarnated as a pod, delete please.

  81. What BB says.

  82. BB and UpstateNY, count your blessings. today will be our third straight over 100 here in NC. Forecast high today: 102. Humidity is through the roof too. it’s like being in a sauna…literally. And its only june. They are saying this heat wave will last at least through the middle of the month for us.

  83. BB, me 2

  84. Mawm, on June 9th, 2008 at 10:34 am Said:

    What Mawm said . If Hill doesn’t pull it out, I don’t know what I’ll do vote wise in Nov. However I do know I never award my vote to the corrupt shit bag that is the current Dem leadership. They want to be the GOP, but they can’t even steal an election smoothly….jeeish .
    There is a corporatist ,f-the people party already .It’s called the GOP. If one wants to follow that, why not go to the original?

  85. Personally I won’t vote McCain, but will leave the top of my ticket blank…unless we get a happy August surprise. 😉

    I live in New York, which is supposed to be a “safe” state. We’ll see what happens and who Obama and McCain pick as VP candidates.

  86. OK, you disaffected and former Democrats, we’re all focused on the presidential election, but there are other races where we can have an impact.

    Are you from Massachusetts ?

    Senator Kerry – you know the one, backed Obama after Massachusetts voted for Hillary, then made despicable comments about Hillary – yeah, that Senator Kerry.
    We have an opportunity to show Kerry and other elected officials who ignored the voters in their own states that we won’t just ‘get over it’.
    Kerry has a primary challenger this year for the first time in 23 years. His name is Ed O’Reilly, and he’s opposing Kerry because of Kerry’s support for the Iraq war and subsequent
    lack of action on trying to end it, and he feels Kerry isn’t bold enough in supporting gay marriage.

    See, you won’t even feel conflicted about it because you’re supporting a more progressive candidate.

    Here’s more information from a local news station:
    http://wbztv.com/local/senator.john.kerry.2.742947.html

    Even Obama supporters who used Obama’s (real or imagined) opposition to the Iraq war as a basis
    for supporting him should be supporting O’Reilly, it would be hypocritical not to.

    Let’s have an impact, let’s support Ed O’Reilly.

    If there are similar primary challengers in other states, spread the word.

  87. They are saying that NC might be a swing state too. I find that VERY hard to believe. But I may have to vote McCain just in case. I am looking forward to driving around with both my Hillary for pres and McCain for pres bumper stickers on my car…

  88. Thanks for that video, Upstate {{smiling broadly}}.

    garychapelhill, I really feel for you. Is that normal for NC? Here in the Boston area we often get early heat waves. I can remember years when we got into the 90s in March! It usually only lasts a few days though.

  89. LiffeyMA,

    Thanks for the info. I’ve been aware of Ed O’Reilly for quite a long time and will support him. He probably doesn’t have a chance, but it might scare Kerry a little bit. I want this to be Kerry’s last term if he wins this time. I heard that Ted Kennedy wants his wife take over his seat. I think we definitely need new blood.

  90. “bostonboomer,
    I have the same problem with all the commenters on NQ who say Obama is far left and a even a “Commie” or “Marxist.” They sound like Nixon Republicans. Obama is no Marxist. If he were, he wouldn’t have advisors like Goosbee and all the rest, and he wouldn’t have all those Wall Street backers.”

    with you on that one! that site creeps me out!

  91. bostonboomer, on June 9th, 2008 at 11:09 am Said:
    ———————

    I live in Ohio…and I can damn guarantee you that it is not going Barackula’s way.

  92. BB-this might be normal in late august, but not in june, this seems to be setting up a repeat of last summer (record heat and drought). It is a shame because we had such a nice, cool, wet spring.

    upstate, can’t watch the video at work, will check it out later.

  93. and he is no marxist!

    Its the same routine Rethug condemnation as back when they claimed Hillary was a cookie baking “communist”

  94. dotcommodity, on June 9th, 2008 at 11:24 am Said:
    ———————–

    Why does it “creep you out”?

    I’m sure you were all for it when Larry Johnson exposed the character assasination on Joe and Valerie Wilson? you know, when it was completely against bush’s activities?

    There is NOTHING wrong with No Quarter.

  95. New McLaughlin and Associates poll:

    Among white women, McCain leads Obama 49-38

    Among all women, McCain leads Obama 45-43.

    I shudder (well not really) to think what the male McCain vs. Obama numbers are. Be afraid DNC, Be very afraid…

  96. I’m not a fan of Marxism , but calling Bambie a Marxist. is a complement. He’s a rat fucking crook sock puppet.. BO doesn’t think about the why he helps higher up folks to steal enough to be called anything like a Marxist.. Anyone who says those who don’t vote for him , are clinging to guns and bibles, has not done alot of thinking. Clearly Rev Wright and the other “religious” types, Michelle and the Chicgo Machine does his thinking for him and have for over two decades.

  97. bostonboomer,

    I think the fact that he even got on the ballot with Kerry lobbying all the delegates to keep him off is a sign that there is already some dissatisfaction with Kerry. We might at least put a scare into him.

  98. I agree with people who say Obama is not a Marxist.

    My grandfather was a screenwriter in Hollywood in the 50’s, and was blacklisted for being a Communist. He actually was one – most Jewish people in Hollywood at that time were.

    Trust me, I know the difference between a real leftist and a fake one. Barack Obama is a fake leftie all the way.

    New bumper sticker: “Real Marxists don’t eat arugula.”

    😉

  99. dotcommodity,

    I’m glad Larry and Susan Hu are digging up dirt on Obama. He creeps me out more than No Quarter. I don’t have any reason to believe that Larry isn’t trustworthy. He argued against the Iraq war from the very beginning and has consistently opposed Bush. He admitted voting for Bush in 2000, but soon regretted it, and has been active in opposing him for a long time. Larry also has fought hard for both Valerie and Joe Wilson. I think his heart is in the right place.

    On the other hand, until I see actual evidence that Obama is involved with or agrees with the Nation of Islam, I think that is a bogus accusation. IMHO, Obama joined Trinity Church for expedient political reasons, and his friendships with other Chicago black community leaders are just as cynical. Look how quickly he throws them under the bus as soon as they become inconvenient.

    What scares me about Obama is that he seems to have no basic values or ideology. He goes along with whatever is most convenient for him. In Chicago, it was convenient to get involved with people on the left. In order to run for President, he has switched to a center right position. What he will do as President will depend on who offers him the most money and power.

    I find Obama really frightening. Even George W. Bush has ideological beliefs that he tries to stand by. They are scary beliefs, but at least he is predictable. Obama is as corrupt as Bush but has no guiding ideology that I can identify.

  100. madamab, on June 9th, 2008 at 11:31 am Said:
    I agree with people who say Obama is not a Marxist.

    My grandfather was a screenwriter in Hollywood in the 50’s, and was blacklisted for being a Communist. He actually was one – most Jewish people in Hollywood at that time were.

    Trust me, I know the difference between a real leftist and a fake one. Barack Obama is a fake leftie all the way.

    New bumper sticker: “Real Marxists don’t eat arugula.”
    ——————–

    I agree with you completely.

    The thing I find most hillarious, is the obamaphiles comparing Hillary to Republicans…saying she’s not a liberal.

    Um HELLO, what other person do you know in modern times that singlehandedly attempted to pass Healthcare reform? She was a First Lady, in the early 90’s, and had the guts to try to actually DO SOMETHING.

    What’s obama got, 15 years later? I Healthcare bandaid.

    Nuh uh…obama sucks, but he’s not a marxist.

  101. RD, I urge you to think about your next steps with this blog. I don’t want to lose people like Rich in PA. We can not merely be an echo chamber for the disaffected. We are netroots 2.0. We have a voice and about 18 million voters behind us. We need to plot out our next steps, though obviously we’ll still need space to vent.

  102. WS, on June 9th, 2008 at 11:28 am Said:
    New McLaughlin and Associates poll:

    Among white women, McCain leads Obama 49-38

    Among all women, McCain leads Obama 45-43.

    I shudder (well not really) to think what the male McCain vs. Obama numbers are. Be afraid DNC, Be very afraid…
    ——————-

    WOO HOO..!

  103. LiffeyMA, I think so too. I was amazed that Kerry couldn’t keep him off the ballot. Showing my ignorance, will we be able to vote in a primary for O’Reilly, or is the nomination decided at the Convention?

  104. Now, I could be wrong but my advice is look out for “The Young Judith”…she (?) was popped a week or so ago with the guise of a Hillary supporter who no longer felt welcome at Taylor Marsh. Yesterday she argued for unity and then left the tell-tale: “I am no longer emotional about this”…..

    Even her name is offensive to me.

    Hi to madamab!

    [Cate — You’re new here, you’re not the boss of anybody, you’re out of line, and you’ve already been warned. Knock it off. Now. — RonK]

  105. bostonboomer,
    I’m assuming its a primary, but I’ll do some research to make sure.

  106. Do you think Obama has peaked? You would think that he would be doing better in the polls against any repub even mccain. What will be the call to hillary supporters other than you are a dem so you must vote dem. I do not know how he gets hillary blue collar support. Does anyone know what percentage of dems are blue collar.

  107. Hi guys…

    coming from Camille’s site (a very pro-hill) …site..wanted to you post 2 pieces of info:

    1) we have a “retire the debt” fund going on… the money ONLY goes to Hillary, DOES NOT go to the morons at the DNC or the empty-suit,

    if only goes to Hillary. This will send a strong signal to Hillary that she has tremendous support, we will support Hillary and NOT the undemocratic DNC….please give what you can:

    http://tinyurl.com/yvcvx4

    2) Ed O’reilly is running agn Kerry, he got over 20% so he is on the ballot for the primaries on Sept. 16 in MA.. he indicated, more people wanted to support him, but were afraid to, since it was an open roll call….now he will be on the ballot agn kerry in sept., but he needs $$… please give what you can to his campaign.. so that we can oust that Kerry. thanks

    http://www.actblue.com/contribute/entity/18072

  108. Hi Cate! :wave:

    destardi – Hillary is FAR more liberal than Obama, but she has the knack of explaining to more conservative voters why she’s right.

    It is so amazing that she can get the conservatives in upstate NY to vote for her by staying true to her liberal values.

    Our Party “Leaders” like Pelosi and Reid think you get crossover votes from submitting to rightwing pressure. They are so wrong. Most people who vote Republican, except for the hardcore 18-percenters who like Dick Cheney, are reachable. You just have to frame your policies without scaring them into thinking you “hate America” or aren’t “supporting the troops.”

    If they had followed HRC’s example, we might actually have gotten something done in the last year and a half.

  109. madamab, on June 9th, 2008 at 11:48 am Said:
    ————–

    ABSOLUTELY!

    That’s why I cannot let go of my complete, utter disgust and despise bordering on hatred for obama and his campaign, as well as the media.

    It’s funny…sometimes I can’t separate the two (obama/media).

  110. madamb, exactly right. She is a world class issues framer. Like that SD paper said. They said she was the “more moderate” then went on to explain how her ideas were more bold and progressive than BO’s.

  111. Cate,

    “the young judith” has posted here many times over the months, so she is familiar to most of us. She has always said she would vote for the nominee of the party. I have also seen her at The Left Coaster. I doubt if she is an “infliltrator.” If she is, she has been at it for a very long time and she doesn’t escalate into crazy Obot behavior.

  112. TAKEN DOWN BY THE PARTY

    From *****A

    This all seems obvious to us, of course, that Hillary was taken down not by the voters but by the Party. But it’s the first time I’ve ever heard anyone on TV admit it.
    *****A

    Did anyone watch MTP on Sunday? I thought Chuck Todd was the only one who said what he honestly thought. The rest mouthed the usual pundit story lines, but Todd said this:

    MR. CHUCK TODD: You know, the biggest myth of this campaign was that somehow the Clintons controlled the apparatus. They didn’t. And, and, you know, I look back and I think that the, the two moments before the campaign even started were clues as to how difficult this was going to be for them. One was the election of Howard Dean as DNC chair, and the other was Democrats winning control of Congress in 2006 and the ascension of Nancy Pelosi as one of the leaders. Here they had two of the sort of three cogs of the Democratic leadership, in Nancy Pelosi and Howard Dean, who were waiting for there to be a crack in this inevitability armor of, of the Clintons. And once there was, it’s as if they were just waiting. And it wouldn’t have mattered if it was Barack Obama, Mark Warner, had he run, or John Edwards. Whoever ended up filling the vacuum of the anti-Clinton, they were going to rush to them. And I think that that’s something the Clinton campaign never appreciated. I think they thought that it was sheer will they would get those superdelegates with them. They would get whatever rulings they needed, whatever primary calendar they wanted. But every step of the way, nothing went their way on process in the inside, and I think that shocks a lot of us today that they lost the inside game. It’s one thing to lose the outside game, votes and all that stuff, but they lost the inside game.

  113. There are plenty of reasons to reject Obama without labeling him with “isms”. The tone of the NQ website may be doing us harm although I do enjoy reading some of the posts.

  114. I would feel MaCain will win in a landslide if he was the Reagan of 1980. But the few times I have seen him, he comes off as the Reagan of 1984!

    Where the Press jumps in this supposedly post Hill world will be telling. If the Bambie love fest continues, then I’m guessing the powers that be actually want Bambie. If they turn on him , then he was a set up for MaCain after all, with the Vichy Dems full compliance . But lord knows, I haven’t yet been able to figure out if the Dem elders even want to win or not.

  115. Tim,

    Thanks for the info on Ed O’Reilly. It would be my dream come true if he could actually win the primary. I’m not going to hold my breath waiting for that, but I can dream, can’t I?

  116. “They would get whatever rulings they needed, whatever primary calendar they wanted.”

    This isn’t plausible. The states control the primary schedules. No way Hillary thought she could control them.

  117. CB – Wow, Chuck Todd of MSNObama acknowledged that our presumptuous nominee was pushed through by insiders and not voters?

    If they start pushing that perception, it will be an even bigger landslide for McCain.

    Which, IMHO, is what the MCM actually wants. McCain is their darling, now and forever.

  118. Also, the Clintons have never been insiders, so why should they win an “inside game”?

  119. My random thoughts:

    The PelosiDean/DNC coup became evident early on and had a lot going for it.

    Axelrod’s “Hope+Change(TM) rerun of the Deval Patrick campaign had a more engaging candidate with a great back story.

    the New York Times still had the rabid Clinton haters from the 90s (Maureen Dowd became absolutely deranged), Frank Rich admitted how in the 90s, he couldn’t wait to get home to read the latest on Whitewater, which was an absolute zero except for our tax money (I read all 600 pages of “Blood Sport”) . When the Times “broke” the Whitewater “story” on it front page, it didn’t even knowing a basic fact–McDougal wasn’t head of an S&L when the Clintons put money into the development, he was a part of the inner circle of “movers and shakers” in Little Rock–an eccentric former professor who made money in real estate when anyone could.

    General Electric’s MSNBC/NBC had the team that sold us Bush over Gore and over Kerry (and even propped the fool up), and as a bonus the women haters Chris Matthews and Keith Obamaman could go wild. Andrea Mitchell could continue her distinguished career of snipping whatever Hillary said and perverting it for her candidate (the not Clinton).

    CNN hired Donna Brazile as its “undecided” (or “undeclared”?) election pundit, apparently too stupid to realize that she was part of the coup (and that she had a personal favorite not based on resume)! Viewers weren’t as clueless.

    Axelrod’s candidate was a “two-fer”–(mentioned in this Sunday NYT)–white men who wouldn’t vote for a woman could cast a vote for the biracial candidate and feel enlightened.

    (Boobie prize is that the opponent will be a white male or the Chicago machine comes to Washington unless Fitzgerald can clean it up.)

    Arianna Huffington and Kos switched parties and decided to change it. Huffington’s once political guru, Newt Gingrich fostered Clinton hatred when he was Speaker of the House for one reason–to kill healthcare for Americans. If the Clintons were able to fulfill this campaign promise (Hillary’s life goal), then the middle class would align with the Democrats (shades of Daddy Roosevelt) and would hold power for generations. Better to keep health care a limited resource (and all of that money eventually got drained off in the Republican administrations foreign wars of aggression).

    Hufffington switched to the Democratic Party when she realized it was more hip and profitable to do so. She was a mouthpiece for the right-wing Clinton slander.

    What the coup didn’t count on was that Hillary was a very good candidate. She is deeply religious and her religion’s tenet is service to people. She is also smarter than just about anyone in the game. When someone has a calling, it is easier to keep going, even ascend, when everyone tells you to give up, hand it over to the chosen one.

    I’ve read that Pelosi rules by fear. So far she hasn’t been that successful.

    P.S. Hillary doesn’t bother reading Maureen Dowd, which must drive her even madder.

  120. Melanie,

    RichinPA already announced his departure some time ago, because he wants to support the Party’s choice of nominee. He has commented a couple of times prefacing his words with “I don’t comment here anymore but…” So I think he’s already gone, but he can chime in if I’ve misinterpreted him.

  121. CB, on June 9th, 2008 at 11:56 am Said:

    Todd : It’s one thing to lose the outside game, votes and all that stuff, but they lost the inside game

    I love that .” Votes and all that stuff.” Silly Clintons thinking that stuff , votes were important! lol! Yes that was a mistake wasn’t it .

  122. BB I never got the impression that NQ was trying to say that Obama really believes in any of the crap from Farrakhan or NOI, just that his tolerance of them is just more pandering to the African American community(as you noted about Trinity, which I also beleive is true) which is sympathetic. I think that by constantly throwing around accusations like racism by obama and co., those of us who are not (or at least proactively try not to be) racist, second guess ourselves because we are so used to the right wing making race based accusations (the whole “obama is a muslim” meme for example). I really don’t see anything wrong with pointing out that Obama will have a “Jewish problem” if more connections to these groups becomes public. And I don’t believe it is racist to expose Obama as a serial panderer. Personally I don’t think obama has any integrity whatsoever, so I have a hard time that he has any allegiance to Trinity, Farrakhan, or any other group. He uses who he can to get ahead, period.

  123. I wish we all could trade some of our weather. I’m in the Seattle area, and it’s cold and raining for day umpteen. It isn’t supposed to get above 60 today. Feels like winter, except the trees and flowers are blooming. I have early spring flowers that already bloomed and are blooming again because of this new dose of early spring.

    About Buchanan: You don’t have to like the man to find that he has a few prescient things to say. And he has. Because he’s had no dog in our fight, he’s been one of the fairest commentators we’ve had. When people we thought were fair become disgusting blowhards, you have to take the reality where it comes. Rich, if you want to criticize people for listening to someone, criticize them for having ANYTHING AT ALL to do with Keith Olbermann. He is a hideous excuse for a human being.

    About “o-bots”: If my candidate had won, I’d enjoy the win. No way in heck that I’d harrass the losers. Our vote is our right. It has nothing to do with them. Absolutely nothing to do with them.

    I woke this morning not giving a sh*t. It was wonderful. More to say, but this is getting long. I’ll write another post.

  124. I MADE A TYPO:

    Among white women, McCain leads Obama 49-38.

    Among all women, Obama leads McCain 45-43.

    All the GOP needs is to tie among women and win big with men. These numbers are not good for him.

  125. bostonboomer, on June 9th, 2008 at 11:35 am Said:

    On the other hand, until I see actual evidence that Obama is involved with or agrees with the Nation of Islam, I think that is a bogus accusation. IMHO, Obama joined Trinity Church for expedient political reasons, and his friendships with other Chicago black community leaders are just as cynical. Look how quickly he throws them under the bus as soon as they become inconvenient.

    What scares me about Obama is that he seems to have no basic values or ideology. He goes along with whatever is most convenient for him. In Chicago, it was convenient to get involved with people on the left. In order to run for President, he has switched to a center right position. What he will do as President will depend on who offers him the most money and power.

    ———————–

    bostonboomer: Yes, exactly, that perfectly captures my position, too. I’ve said before, I have no problem with radicalism (heck, many of my hero/ines were radicals and socialists), but Obama is no radical. Jr is no nothin’ — he adopts whatever expedient thing comes along in the moment and his most cherished belief seems to be his own ego. He was too darn special to even have finished more than a year of his first Senate term before he started his campaign. He is left or right, radical or conservative, tough guy or new age wannabe — whatever serves.

    I’m sure he honestly believes in power and $$$, though. Which is hardly a shocking position for a politician… but given the lack of accountability from the media, the party and his base, it’s a big question as to how it will play out. I’m waiting to see the dynamic when someone finally gets him talking about specifics (it’s gotta happen someday, right?). Either the whole sham will fall to pieces or, more disturbingly, his fans (media included) will play yes-man to whatever is his identity of the day.

    Given his behavior re: Roberts, I have to laugh at people who bring up SCOTUS.

  126. plural, on June 9th, 2008 at 12:02 pm Said:
    Also, the Clintons have never been insiders, so why should they win an “inside game”?

    Exactly. While Todd is being somewhat honest, well more than most, he is still doing the blame the victim
    number.

    CB, on June 9th, 2008 at 12:02 pm Said:…..What the coup didn’t count on was that Hillary was a very good candidate. She is deeply religious and her religion’s tenet is service to people. She is also smarter than just about anyone in the game. When someone has a calling, it is easier to keep going, even ascend, when everyone tells you to give up, hand it over to the chosen one.

    Well put!

  127. I see that over on TalkLeft, “But-but-but MCCAIN!” is the new strategy.

    Even THEY cannot find an affirmative reason to support Obama.

    Unbelievably depressing.

  128. McCain is probably the best choice –if it is obama v mccain–(this is my opinion only) He is not well liked by the very far right. His own party will be obstructionist if he is elected (think of immigration). that reminds me a lot of Bill Clinton in the 90’s when his own party stymied his efforts in health care and gays in the military, etc. He will not have the full cooperation of congress as GWB did during his first 6 years, and it is very likely his party won’t even have a majority in either house. If Obama is elected with a sympathetic Dem majority, they could very well turn out as authoritarian as was bushco for 6 years, and we all know how that turned out.

  129. Elements of each party’s bases (women/blue collar and evangelicals on the other side) seem to be unsatisfied with their candidates. At least, Republicans can say their nominee won fair and square while the Dem Party nominee wasn’t.

  130. madamab, on June 9th, 2008 at 12:24 pm Said:
    I see that over on TalkLeft, “But-but-but MCCAIN!” is the new strategy. Even THEY cannot find an affirmative reason to support Obama.

    Funny, MaCain is the new Hillary. Bambie HAS to be the anti someone candidate ….because he’s not anything of himself. It will be a loooong time till Aug much les Nov.

  131. Annetoo, on June 9th, 2008 at 11:58 am Said:

    If the Bambie love fest continues, then I’m guessing the powers that be actually want Bambie. If they turn on him , then he was a set up for MaCain after all,

    I will be looking for this too. I want to know if the media love for Obama continues. If it does, it confirms to me that Obama is indeed as scary as I think he is. It means the corporate masters have their real lapdog.

    I watched as the media turned on McCain in 2000 just as they did to Clinton in 2008. They smeared him to help Bush get the nomination. The myth that the media love McCain is totally false. They did a hit-job on him then, and I’m looking to see if the hit-job continues.

    Looking back at what McCain faced in 2000 really endears him to me after seeing them do the same thing to Clinton today.

    Vote AGAINST who the media wants. The media is EVIL.

  132. […] Monday: Obama Pod People (by riverdaughter at The Confluence) We last few remnants of the “shrieking band of paranoid holdouts” are now under attack… In the past day, The Confluence, Corrente, Reclusive Leftist, Anglachel and others have seen a number of pod people showing up in the comments.  They *say* they are regulars but for some reason, they speak the language of the converted… But this is forced.  It comes from some external source.  It takes on our identities but it is not one of us.  There’s no emotion.  It’s empty… [W]hy go the psychological warfare route?… Why not try to win us over with the force of the policy proposals, committments to our causes, understanding and acknowledgment of the principles we hold dear?… […]

  133. Honora — Under current circumstances, not funny! 😉

    o-bot seems to be a different actor, but of the same breed. Appropriate measures are being taken.

  134. Teresa, on June 9th, 2008 at 12:10 pm Said:

    I wish we all could trade some of our weather. I’m in the Seattle area, and it’s cold and raining for day umpteen. It isn’t supposed to get above 60 today. Feels like winter, except the trees and flowers are blooming. I have early spring flowers that already bloomed and are blooming again because of this new dose of early spring.

    I hear ya. I’m down in Pacific Beach, right on the coast and it sucks right now – 50 degrees, rain and wind.

  135. GREAT POST “CB” !!
    Your break-down of players & events was “spot-on”!
    May I offer 1-addition!
    ** CNN-Roland Martin / Chicago radio peronality
    1st noticed AFTER HILLARY WON NH!!
    His “offering” to the discussion:
    “Something about whites not voting for blacks”,.
    Referencing a “Brady or Bradly” incident in CA years
    ago.
    I remember even the other news-people saying it made “NO SENSE”! Un-fortunately the racial piece was introduced just in time to “TRASH” the Clinton’s before SC!

  136. I immediately established an account at mybarackobama, joined 10 groups, started blogging on feminism and the election, in order to help Obama supporters understand Hillary supporters and outraged feminists everywhere. Obviously the campaign has not thought through the dilemma of an influx of Hillary supporters into groups dedicated to viciously bashing her. I like to debate, so it’s fine for me. Too many posters are still looking in the rear view mirror, but lots of people are combatting that. I hope all my blogging and email is clearing the way for my less combative sisters.

    It’s easy to make a splash. Start a blog, join ten groups, and send your posts to all of those groups. There aren’t many bloggers. I have received about 24 requests for friendship and mostly warm welcomes from individuals. I have been told I am smart, perceptive, brilliant even. Someone told me he would like to clone 18 million of me.

    I am combative. I am taking on vicious Hillary bashing and heroically refraining from Obama bashing . I might be getting away with it because I believe she who laughs, lasts.

    In general, it is a safer place than many progressive blogs. I posted lightly at my old hunting grounds, Obsidian Wings. As always, I became the new Hillary:)even though I am funnier than she is.

    It has been a better experience than discussing politics with my 4 Obama-obsessed daughters in the last year. The more you succeed in not clipping your daughters’ wings, the more empowered they are to clip yours. I am using a pseudonym because my darlings don’t want anyone to know they are related to me. I knew they were wretches when they refused my entreaties to read Pride and Predudice for a decade. I, on the other hand, read it the day my mom gave it to me when I was 12. Ignoring Jane Austen is a more grave crime than supporting Obama.

  137. Mawm, on June 9th, 2008 at 12:29 pm Said:
    ….I watched as the media turned on McCain in 2000 just as they did to Clinton in 2008…..

    I was thinking of that. It would be just like the GOP to set up MaCain….again. The thing is Bambie gives everything to The Powers That Be that MaCain does but much more . BO is the total tool . While MaCain would most likely do as told, but may be he wouldn’t . So why wouldn’t TPTB want to remove the” maybe” part . Also if one says, ” I don’t want a draft or social security given to Wall St. ” to President Bambie, they are a racist. End of story. etc….Also the tension between races they play like a harp…. POTUS Bambie works for them….oh and as a bonus, AA candidates and the Dems would need years to recover .Lots more shock and awe potential with Barry . We’ll know shortly.

  138. My problem has never been just about Senator Clinton vs Obama. It’s also about the Democratic Party as a whole. I know some long time Republicans that were appalled at the direction their party took and have now been Independents for many years. That’s how I feel about the Democratic Party that I have supported for 40 years. I cannot in all good conscience support them anymore. A vote for Obama, with or without Senator Clinton as VP is an acceptance of what was done.

    And while anglachel, who I respect and admire said she would continue to work within the party for change, she also said:

    “At the same time, I see nothing wrong with moving to Independent status to record dissatisfaction with the party. That also removes from the party what it most needs from rank-and-file – the money, the votes and the volunteers. It is simply not what I’m going to do.”

    And every time I calm down and think maybe I could vote more against the Republicans than for the Democrats some Obamatot gets on my last nerve and I remember once again the disgusting display of corruption on May 31st.

    I don’t like McCain’s politics. But one thing you have to say for McCain and the Republicans; he is their presumptive nominee in spite of the RNC, not because of it. He got where he is fair and square because the voters wanted him. He didn’t cheat, he was counted out at one time and he won. I respect him and his party for that if nothing else.

  139. (blinking)

  140. It has started already, CBS News.com has a story up that Obama’s problems in Pennsylvania are due to racism. How come the problems can not be do to the fact that he is not a good candidate? Why won’t the pod people listen to us!!

  141. Rich in PA — Please take a deep breath and a step backward. Merits aside, do you realize that your comment is conspicuously ill-timed? We are inundated with scolds and cyber-attacks (many rendered non-visible only by round-the-clock effort). Obama may be reaching for unity, but his followers are treating us as enemies at war, as in “all’s fair”.

    You could have stayed and worked out your posture going forward in relation to manyh others here working out theirs, but you chose not (for reasons that are not clear to me). It’s a long calendar, and you might have had something to offer, and some things to learn.

    Popping in and scolding now is just not productive.

  142. Redstocking Grandma,

    I am done with Obama. Debating the Obama supporters now is a waste of my time. I’ll spend my time winning over people who will vote McCain.

  143. garychapelhill,

    Oh no, I didn’t mean that NQ per se supports that nonsense. I was talking about the comments and defending Larry Johnson and Susan Hu.

  144. Hey everybody, I’m a little late to the party here, good afternoon to all!

    Pox on the O-PODS! We will not assimilate – don’t you people get it?

    Mawn is right in saying “The Media is EVIL!”

    If they are coming here it’s because something special is happening – the resistance is GROWING.

    Yellow dogs have morphed into PUMAs.

  145. I disagree with Anglachel about not leaving the party. I’d post this over there, but she’s screening comments for relevance, and it would hurt my ego if she thought I was irrelevant. So I’m not testing those waters.

    The scariest thing for the Democratic Party is the mass defections. Mass defections will make the news, will affect polling because organizations like Rasmussen will have to adjust their dem/rep/indy ratios.

    Polling and media set the message. If the message is that the Democrats are rejecting “The One” then “The One” will be rejected. It’s a snowball effect.

    I think leaving the party is the best thing to do. Trust me, coming from a state where you don’t register party affiliation, I still get plenty of things from DNC, DSCC, etc., so you can still write them nasty grams. Just sign up for your favorite candidates mailing list and you’ll get friendly letters from all. You can still work for the candidates whom you like, etc. etc.

    One O-bot recently said, “we won, we have the power”. Nope. As independents, WE have all the power. Staying in the Democratic Party negates your power. You can always rejoin later.

  146. The more you succeed in not clipping your daughters’ wings, the more empowered they are to clip yours.

    Redstocking Grandma, ain’t that the truth.

  147. Ron: i only pop in occasionally because it wouldn’t be respectful of the majority opinion here for me to contest every posting (or even every tenth posting) about not voting for Obama. That’s for everyone to work out on their own. I popped in on this occasion because of a couple of specific things that I thought were just no good, quite apart from the candidate question. As for the ethics of my coming in to make those points while you’re under siege, I would hope that you’re not at wits’ end to the point that the occasional comment from me would make life unbearable!

  148. garychapelhill,

    I just finished reading all the rest of your comments. I agree with you on everything except I haven’t reached the point where I can imagine voting for McCain yet. I plan to wait and see what happens. Since I am an eternal optimist, I’m still hoping to be able to vote for Hillary.

    I don’t think it is racist to talk about Obama’s associations with Farrakhan, etc. I have done that myself. I think no matter how “polite” we are about it here, millions of Americans will be deeply troubled by Obama assortment of friends. I’m all for getting it out there and I’m glad Larry and Susan are doing the legwork.

  149. bb- I agree, I think I may have misread. I think my point in general though is that they use the racism charge because they know we are sensitive to it. Unlike republicans we try to be fair and unbiased. When I see some of the comments there it makes me cringe sometimes, but I have to remind myself of two things. 1. many of them may be republicans stirring the pot, and 2. They started this race baiting drama, so if they want to get down in the mud, who am I to call out some commenters there who want to get down in it with them. I think the obots try to convince people that ANY discussion of race is inherently racist. But we must be clear, they brought on this ugliness and it is now their (and of course Obama himself) responsibility to deal with it. I was just reading a comment thread there where a commenter called mawm a racist for daring to point out that it was Obama who began the race baiting. I have also read posts that have labeled Riverdaughter a racist for saying that Obama is the affirmative action candidate. As good democrats we have been conditioned to be repulsed by racism when we see it. That’s why they have used the race baiting tool so effectively. I sometimes have to push back that pavlovian response and rationally see that it is the Obama crowd that is behind the racially driven politics of this campaign.

  150. What the pod people cannot seem to figure out is the more they persist, the more we resist. Do they really think that we will not push back against this coup? What sickens me is that these little turds talk about the fact that we’re naughty dems, or republicans. They don’t seem to care that their party, which they’ve been members of for about 10 seconds, has violated its most central tenets for the sole purpose of denying a candidate the nomination…oh wait…they’re really fascists, not Democrats. My mistake.

  151. Person who mentioned CBS/Racism:

    I think people will get very tired of being called racists and will reject that notion.

    We know we aren’t racists.

  152. garychapelhill

    Good points. I agree.

  153. CB,

    You are a font of knowledge. Have you thought about putting it into an essay and asking Riverdaughter for posting privileges? I would love to see your ideas put forward in a fully developed way. Or do you already do this on your own blog?

  154. Donna Brazile said back a few months ago. You can
    listen at the above NPR link. She said she’d quit the
    Democratic “pawtuh” IF super delegates wound up choosing the nominee
    for the general election. Well, Super Delegates HAVE selected the
    nominee. He was not elected, he was selected. Now is the time for her
    to resign.

    Let’s all write Donna and remind her of her pledge.
    Donna Brazile or Brazile and Associates
    info@brazileassociates.com
    or P.O. Box 15369, Washington, DC 20003.

    __._,_.___

  155. I don’t want Brazile to leave the party. She’s our best asset. Let her keep spewing her hate that only makes me more determined. In fact, I think we should send her a fruit basket in thanks.

  156. Riverdaughter or someone from the site:

    The press is interested in the story about fake HIllary posters trying to convert people through posting.

    How can I contact you with the information?

  157. About TalkLeft:

    Jeralyn has already said she’ll vote for Obama, but her site isn’t going to become an Obama advocacy site. Instead she’ll talk about the evils of McCain. I don’t think she’s any happier about the outcome of this election than we are, she’s just being a “good Democrat”.

    One point they’re talking about over there, the gas prices. I really think the rising gas prices will help the Republicans sell Obama as Carter, especially among boomers who remember gas lines.

  158. I consider NoQuarter something of a “red meat” site, a little over the top, but I still glance over there at times and today they have a good point.

    Why is Emily’s list, one with a charter to elect WOMEN, endorsing Barack Obama? Hellow?

  159. Thanks, Boston Boomer.

    I may start a blog when I have time. Those were just thoughts I had in response to the coup that has happened. I knew something was strange from the beginning, and we were being sold another emperor without clothes. I was supposed to be for Obama but then when I started investigating the candidates, I found his Hope+Truth(TM) ad campaign funny in a comic sense but was blown out of the water by Hillary’s brilliant political persona.

    The DNC did send me an e-mail about new CHANGE brought to us by Obama: Lobbyists are out!

    From *****A, who does her research:

    BTW, the DNC banning federal lobbyists is meaningless.

    There are now many layers of specialized, insider talent: public relations experts, political consultants, fundraisers, lawyers, private investors and lobbyists. The McCain and Obama bans on registered lobbyists rely on a technicality. Such lobbyists are really a subset of the lobbying trade. Federal law requires that only those lobbyists who directly buttonhole lawmakers and their staffs register with the federal government. Many of the biggest names do not register because they leave the direct lobbying to their partners or underlings.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/01/weekinreview/01abram.html?_r=1&ref=weekinreview&oref=slogin

  160. I’m tired of being a “good” Democrat.

    Where’s our Universal Healthcare?

    Where’s our impeachment of Dubya?

    Where’s our education reform?

    Where’s our Green Energy and end to Global Warming policy?

    Where’s our healthy economy?

    Screw being a “good” Democrat. You vote for ’em, you vote for ’em and you still vote for ’em and NOTHING GETS DONE.

    And on top of that, they cheat to put in the 0bambi.

    What have we gotten out of being “good” Democrats??

    NOTHING.

    Sorry for the rant, but Jeralyn & these other “good” Democrats need to ask themselves WTF has our party done for US, the people who keep voting for them – we have gotten NOTHING.

  161. SM,

    I couldn’t agree with you more.

  162. I just had a thought about O-bots telling us about the eeeevil McCain.

    Well, no kidding! We are the ones who nominated the strongest candidate IN ORDER TO BEAT HIM!

    Talk about preaching to the choir!

    If they REALLY want to beat McCain, they should support Hillary. Obama, IMHO, has no chance.

  163. Rich — I wasn’t addressing your “ethics”. I’m addressing your “basic social intelligence” and “common courtesy” … and i see I’m barking up the wrong tree.

    We know we have fringes here. Every group does. We moderate ’em. Nuf said.

  164. Teresa: about TalkLeft

    Really didn’t care too much for the post about McCain’s first wife. I’m not enamored with this ‘quick, let’s switch to trashing McCain!’

    To be fair, I have no use for the same vs BO at sites like NQ.

    I’ve grown to dislike movement ‘progressives’ just as much as I dislike movement conservatives.

  165. SM: Exactly. We aren’t choosing a restaurant, we’re picking a president. Going along to get along will only make our own lives worse.

  166. don’t like McCain’s politics. But one thing you have to say for McCain and the Republicans; he is their presumptive nominee in spite of the RNC, not because of it. He got where he is fair and square because the voters wanted him. He didn’t cheat, he was counted out at one time and he won. I respect him and his party for that if nothing else.
    ——————————————

    Amen! I’m a dem for mccain (hillary in 2012!)

    AY SHTUEY! Welcome man!

  167. hlr: I didn’t read that one, glanced at headlines,went straight to the sexism diary, then left.

    They aren’t running for models of marital success. They’re running for president.

  168. bostonboomer: I’m glad Larry and Susan are doing the legwork.

    They lost me with that tape crap. I think it’s the same reason I’m turned off by the “McCain’ first wife” post at TL.

  169. hlr: Agreed about the “tape crap”. If they have the goods, deliver the goods. If they don’t, then they should shut up.

  170. Oh, and SM: I agree 100%.

  171. I don’t care what Obama is. The fact is he is not just unqualified for the job, he is so arrogant he is unwilling to show his weaknesses by learning about the world we live in. And, sadly, foreign affairs is what he, himself, claims is his strong suit.

    Savage Politics has a series of video clips that reveal the many moments where he tries to look informed and smart. I laughed so hard through one of them I could barely breathe. Ignore the ones from that Rev Manning’s church…that man is worse than Wright and can’t be taken seriously.

    I’m trying to figure out what will be my best “Panic button” tool. By nature, I’m a very forgiving person and need reminders to keep me from falling into the trap of trusting someone who doesn’t deserve my trust. So far, this web site has been great at keeping me remembering why I won’t ever vote for Obama.

    But, when I watched Hillary’s speech on Saturday, and Diane Feinstein’s appearance on This Week yesterday, I start to weaken.

    Even when other sites go into Hillary for VP mode, I get furious with myself when I start responding to a comment. The VP spot isn’t on the table yet, in my opinion. I still firmly believe Obama will be knocked out at the convention. He’s too great a risk and the Republicans really can’t wait until September to start bringing out their arguments against him.

  172. rojo: “The VP spot isn’t on the table yet, in my opinion. I still firmly believe Obama will be knocked out at the convention. He’s too great a risk and the Republicans really can’t wait until September to start bringing out their arguments against him.”

    This is why I think The Summer of Revelations is important. And why I am grateful to No Quarter for their efforts in bringing out some of Obama’s weaknesses. I want us to see anything that’s out there against him (even the crackpot lies) this summer: NOT in the fall.

    Also, I’m waiting until the nomination is confirmed, not presumed before I leave the party. If I leave it’ll be because I was essentially thrown out.

  173. Boston & Teresa, thanks.

    I am fed up to the netherworld as to the “now. now, settle down, let’s be good democrats” talk we keep getting. I refuse to continue rewarding a party with my vote in exchange for political inertia and cheating so they can keep their cushy jobs. Party Unity My Ass again and friggin’ again.

    I want to reward them with the most crushing defeat since 1972 McGovern. Write THAT down in your history books.

    With our lame duck Congress & lame duck candidate:

    – We are not going to get Universal Healthcare.

    – We are not going to fix the economy.

    – We are not going Green or help reduce Global Warming.

    – We are not going to have any long-term education reform.

    – We are not pulling out of Iraq within a timetable (Samantha Power confirmed it).

    – We are not going to get lower gas prices.

    What are we getting with 0bambi?

    A JFK/RFK/MLK masturbatory revival.

  174. SM: I refuse to continue rewarding a party with my vote in exchange for political inertia and cheating so they can keep their cushy jobs

    There you go. That’s why I don’t care about the ‘tape’ even if MO said The! Worst! Horrible! Things!

    I’ve noticed that there’s been little to no discussion of BO’s speech to AIPAC. I don’t think ‘progressives’ want to admit that the parties are converging to the same place, regardless of the red meat they throw out to their respective bases.

    Remember how the whole Kyl-Lieberman flap was used against Hillary in the primary by all of her fellow Dems?

  175. This feels weirdly like it felt to hear the OJ verdict. Everyone knew the score, and everyone knew that he wouldn’t have gotten away with it if he hadn’t been black. Disgusting, and I can only hope that Barky-O faces a fate similar to OJ’s.

  176. HLR: The AIPAC Obama speech was a DISASTER. It is US foreign policy to not recognize Jerusalem as a capital. Let them drown in their own drool. The tape means nothing to me, when it comes, great. But it doesn’t change things. WE THE PEOPLE are not getting “change” – we are getting “status quo.” I can wait 4 more years for Hillary.

    Ann On: PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE go to the blogroll and click on SugarnSpice. Sugar wrote this awesome post about Obama = OJ getting off. It’s a wonderful comparative piece.

  177. Bring on the Pod People, I’m ready to snap their necks!

  178. hlr –

    Remember how the whole Kyl-Lieberman flap was used against Hillary in the primary by all of her fellow Dems?

    Yes! I was one of the “She is Dead To Me” people because of that! Of course, that was before she and Obama were the only ones left, and before she “found her voice” and campaigned as the fighting Dem she truly is.

    Obama didn’t even vote on that one. What a courageous person. /snark

  179. If the Obamacrats are over at talkleft having themselves a McCain bashing good time they are at least consistent. Bashing McCain is easier than talking about the policies and plans of your own nominee, if your own is Obama.

    With Senator Clinton we have an amazing woman who doesn’t need a teleprompter to tell us about her policies or plans. She knows. And because she tells us, we know.

    We are not Obama Pod People and so we know that hope is not a plan. And perhaps this will be the some day when enough voters decide that attacking the other candidate doesn’t tell us a damn thing about yours.

    Oh and applause for sm. You hit all the high spots brilliantly!

  180. Rich in PA: YOU are always welcome here. I appreciated your support when we were at Dkos together and I’m not going to push you away jut because we see our missions differently now.

  181. Kerry’s tactics really backfired. People I’ve spoken to are upset about his endorsement of Obama, his behavior during the campaign, his attempts to keep O’Reilly off the ballot, and the fact that he argued that a primary would be a distraction from important work elsewhere. He took the anger and multiplied it. And Ed’s been everywhere, he’s the exact opposite in putting in a lot of grassroots effort.

    There’s also the fact that O’Reilley’s former campaign manager (who is a good solid progressive) jumped to Kerry and was running around the covention pushing these same questionable arguments. It’s disturbing to many people watching true progressives betray principles all for the sake of another non-progressive. Anything goes as long as you support Obama and we’ve got your quid pro quo isn’t inspiring too much confidence.

    Actually, I have to say I’m appreciating the honesty of people who admit Obama is completely unqualified and there’s nothing positive they can say about him BUT BUT BUT MCCAIN. At least it makes a refreshing change from having to pretend he’s something he’s not. Plus, good luck making McCain the bogeyman.

  182. destardi said 3 hours ago:

    Why does it “creep you out”?”

    I guess its the smear campaign No Quarter pushes. And some of his commenters sound almost racist. I don’t like any Democrat, -even one who has Republican handlers in my view – being subject to racist slurs. Actually, no, I don’t think anyone should be. One of the things I like about riverdaughters site is the no racism policy

    But I did not know he broke the Joe Wilson story. Thats interesting.

  183. “riverdaughter, on June 9th, 2008 at 3:00 pm Said:

    Rich in PA: YOU are always welcome here. I appreciated your support when we were at Dkos together and I’m not going to push you away jut because we see our missions differently now.”

    Me too! Me too!

    BTW just read some of your archived DK posts, as goldberry, wow, you were a great funny advocate there too! In those days I never strayed much from eco diaries, so I missed out on your hypergraphiac genius. (Youre not bipolar are you? My son is*, and hypergraphia is one symptom.)

    * and I discovered in researching Clinton in Feb, that the Clinton admin helped literally save his life through FAPE and IDEA legislation begun with her CDF work in the 70’s when she traipsed through MA in her birkenstocks finding out why so many disabled and mentally ill kids were not in school, and beginning to change that by lobbying congress!

  184. Let’s convince McCain Hillary is his vice pres. In order to get the women’s vote. The DNC screwed her. She was my hope and the brainiest best Dem. They have set everything we have worked for back a million years — seeing woman on woman like Pelosi, Brazile. It is the most disgusting thing I have ever witnessed RD. And everyone. Why she got our votes is because almost all of us have practiced feminism since the 70’s—it never died–we were all working!
    She was the culmination of years of work, and she has been savaged.
    She should leave the Party forever. I can’t stand it, RD.
    If McCain is a gentleman she will be vice pres.

  185. dotcommodity: Not bipolar (that I know of). My hypergraphia only started to manifest itself about October of 2007. Something weird happened and I was able to connect my brain and my typing fingers. It just flows straight down my neck to my arm and my hand. It takes very little effort.
    I guess I’ve always had that potential. When I was in college, I couldn’t write a thing until my brain was good and ready and there was no use forcing it. Then, it would just switch on and the essay would write itself. But as soon as I was done, it would switch off again. A couple of years ago, I found some essays in old blue books and didn’t almost didn’t recognize them. People don’t write that way in day to day life.
    Anyway, Dailykos limited me to a diary a day and that was cool because some days, there just wasn’t anything there. But back in October, I became constituitively active. In molecular biology terms, that means an enzyme that is always in the “on” position.
    Maybe it’s all biochemical in nature and it will right itself pretty soon. It’s been spooky to say the least. Like being possessed. I have no control over it.
    Wish I could have written like this on command back when it was important.

  186. so .. what is the consensus here about BO giving EEwards the nod to help him with his ‘health care ‘ plan ..

    If I missed it .. I am just now going through the posts from 160 something .. I’ll get there and forgive me .. if this has been discussed to smithereens all ready ..

    Guess this was a part of the reason for JEs endorsement ?

    I’ll take whatever is good for the people . Wonder if he will backtrack now .. 1st ‘he was for’ – Second ‘ he was against it’ .. Third ‘ he’s for it again’.. ???

  187. Riverdaughter,
    I am new to The Confluenece, but have been a Democrat since the ’60’s. I commented on one of “boston boomer’s” posts last night (or was it saturday?) Anyway, you have mentioned that some faux converts are showing up on your blog, and I just wanted to make sure you know I’ve been a staunch Dem. all of my adult life….Worked with James Carville and Paul Begala 25 years ago ( in a Texas campaign) and so, I’ve been around the Democratic block a few times!
    My husband and I both appreciate what you’re doing here at The Confluence. Your soothing music and gorgeous photos have helped us keep our sanity over the past few days, as we are so devastated over Hillary’s treatment, esp by our own party!
    Thank you for being such a caring and creative force!
    -Cindy Bragg

  188. riverdaughter – your

    “Wish I could have written like this on command back when it was important.”

    No, NOW IS when it is important. you design drugs for a living – right? so back in college was enough to get by…
    :~)
    ?

    But now is your time.

  189. I was so sure we were going to make history. My ancestors came to America in 1637 and 1638. Some of them came on a small ship called “Dilligence”.

    They came to be free of subservience to an oppressive government and they came because they had no voice. Mostly, they came to start something. They did start something and here we are today a great and powerful nation. Yes, here we are, some 370 years later, countless wars, campaigns, and movements have come and gone but we still can’t get a woman elected to be a candidate for President of the United States.

    Not only is SHE denied, we are now saddled with an inadequate man whose baggage and elitist behavior may well sink this Democratic ship at a time when we need to be choosing the best and the brightest.

    Those great democratic values carried so far forward by so many who never shrank from their duty, now lie in waste. Our party has been seduced by a rock star. We were undone by a relentlessly clever stategy to play the system and a party leadership that decided for the candidate THEY wanted, voters be damned.

    Well, we the people are we the VOTERS and the power of good government is vested in US not the party leadership. We are beholden to no one and I don’t much feel like being polite about it.

    The DNC have got to learn albeit late, that WE count and above all, we CAN count; votes,( half votes be damned), caucuses and delegates. We know that Obama’s tactics were smashingly clever but they were unfair and they were destructive to the point of losing the next election.
    However, for me, the final insult came with the superdelegates and the games they played, culminating in their decision to select the candidate of THEIR choice while telling Hillary (and by extension, the rest of us) to just get out of the way. Now, all those talking heads say Obama is going to have a lot of work to do to win us over to him. Ya think???

    Now, I can’t speak for everyone else but personally…I will never vote for a candidate chosen FOR me by the party elite. And I don’t care how sweet , how charming, how smooth talking the annointed is, how much he vows that our values are his values, our struggles his struggles, I do not believe him and l will not vote for him. Period.

  190. eeek – I don’t know how, but the pod people are in my email now, maybe they got my email from when I supported Edwards (till Hillary clobbered him in the Grist climate debate)
    My reply:

    Publicly adopt Clinton’s FAR BETTER detailed workable Al Gore and EU-based real Democratic clean energy policy on climate change.

    Heres my jetski – adopt at least these 6 planks of her policy I listed in here:
    https://riverdaughter.wordpress.com/2008/05/18/what-should-superdelegate-al-gore-do/

    And fucking thank her for it.

    (And denounce and reject your dirty energy advisory team at the Bipartisan Policy Center who write your ethanol/nuke power/clean coal plan. I will not be astroturfed like some teenybopper.)

  191. For months I have been calling the alarm about the Pod people–Invasion of the Body Snatchers. I’m serious, they seemed like pod people to me early on, but now the pods have REALLY multiplied.. I never thought I would see so many of my favorite friends and fellow Democrats turn so quickly — literally over night.

    It happened to me this past weekend at my Texas State Convention. Tens, probably hundreds of thousands of us Delegates descended in Austin. In my Senate District from San Antonio, we blew the Obamabots out of the water with our devotion and loyalty to Hillary DESPITE numerous attempts by the Obamabots to get us to switch our loyalty to Obama. Then, Chelsea spoke to us, in person, telling us to support BO as her mom, Hillary is. Then, they passed out Obama signs, and some of my fellow Hillary delegates willingly took them and held them up in the air with their Hillary signs. It was freaky, those BO signs interspersed with our Hillary signs. Thank goodness, there were only a few. Hillary peeps, for the most part held on tight to Hillary. That was Friday night. I was actually joking with a few of my friends telling them that elected officials were going to spike their drinks with Kool-Aid, take their pods to bed and wake up anew. Little did I know how true that was.

    Then, came Saturday morning. All of my favorite elected officials that I have known for years — all turned from loyal, avid, vocal Hillaryites to Obamabots! It was scary and infuriating all rolled into one emotion. I spoke with my Dem Party Chair, and told her how upset I was, etc. etc. She just looked at me with a blank look on her face, and curtly, flatly stated, “Get over it.” I then told her that I am NOT going to get over it. She just poo poo’d me and predicted that I would lick my wounds over the summer, and that I’d be back in the Fall and she’d have a whole bunch of assignments waiting for me for Obama at Demo Headquarters! I laughed and told her, “You people just don’t get it!” Her response was, “We can’t let the Repubs win again, and besides, life is too short to be crying over spilt milk.” My response was, “I didn’t spill the milk, I didn’t make the mess, I didn’t lie or cheat or steal votes — The Dem Party, the DNC did, and I am not cattle to be herded in. I also still have my critical thinking faculties totally intact, –besides, is anyone going to apologize to us for this? Certainly, we can’t be expected to just jump on board with this Sh*t like it’s no biggie…” She looked at me quite clueless as to what I was talking about. There was an Af/Am Delegate sitting nearby who smart-mouthed… “if the tables were reversed, you know Barack people would more than gladly come over to Hillary!” I looked at her, and said, “yeah, right, and I was born yesterday.”

    Anyway… I just want y’all to know that I spoke with HUNDREDS of women and men at the Texas Convention, and they are ADAMANT — NO BO, NOT NOW, NEVER!

    Just say NO to the Pod Kool-Aid Obamabots!

    http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/politics/entries/2008/06/06/clinton_supporters_say_no_to_o.html

  192. For those who wish to stay together in a long term commitment to the ideals and rinciples that Hillary Clinton has spent a lifetime promoting, http://Together4Us.com offers access for activists, funders, students, policy-makers and ordinary people to come together in support of each other and their goals for America. Please come to our website and join, use the code below to put our linked logo on your website and distribute our message and this code to all your network. Spread the word. We will be happy to put up a reciprocal link, your own co-branded web page on our site, or your own blog.

    Thanks so much,
    Gretchen Glasscock,
    Together4Us

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