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Obama’s Vice-Presidential Double Bind

How will Barack Obama handle the delicate issues surrounding his choice of candidate to share the ticket with (if he becomes the nominee). He is is a very difficult spot, and it’s likely he won’t want to make a decision soon. However, he may be forced to do so. So many Democrats are calling for a “unity ticket” and the longer he waits the more speculation there will be about whether he will ask Hillary Clinton to share the ticket with him.

Big Tent Democrat has long argued for a unity ticket. Today he wrote:

I’d like to interrupt this Unity Day message with a small reminder to the Barack Obama campaign and the Democratic Party – unless he picks Hillary Clinton as his running mate – the day he announces his Vice Presidential candidate will be a day of disunity.

I hope someone is thinking about that. Because since today is “Why Hillary Lost” Day in the Media, they need to remember that Hillary Clinton got half of the votes. Yes, she lost . . . barely. Obama is in a tight race with John McCain and needs a unified Democratic Party and if he is set on NOT picking Hillary Clinton as his VP, I hope he has a plan for re-unifying the Party the day after he insists on NOT unifying, indeed, in dividing the Party by not choosing Hillary Clinton as his VP.

Personally, I don’t want Hillary to accept the VP role under Obama. It would be inappropriate for her, as a highly qualified woman, to play a secondary role to a younger, far less qualified (to put it mildly) man. The funny thing is that she really has the upper hand here. Barack and Michelle have given every sign of loathing both Clintons. Furthermore, his supporters on the Obama blogs Democratic Party leaders like Kennedy, Kerry, Pelosi, and Carter, have stated publicly that they do not want Hillary on the ticket. On the other hand, many of Hillary’s high profile supporters, are arguing for Hillary to be Obama’s VP. Today, Diane Feinstein, at whose home Clinton and Obama met on Friday, is pushing for the unity ticket.

“No one brings to a ticket what Hillary brings,” California Democratic Sen. Dianne Feinstein said on ABC’s “This Week.”

But Howard Wolfson and Hillary herself have both indicated that she is not interested, but that she will do anything in her power to help the Party win in November.

Clinton, a former first lady and New York senator, was out of the public eye but in the past has asked her supporters not to mount a vice presidential campaign for her.

“It’s not a job that she’s seeking and it’s not a job that she’s campaigning for,” her campaign communications director, Howard Wolfson, said on CBS’ “Face the Nation.” “But she has made it clear, during the campaign and now, that she will do whatever she can and whatever she is asked.”

So Obama is in a tough spot. He’s damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t. And there is also the media. What will they do if he picks her and she accepts?

I’d like to hear what Conflucians think Obama will do. Will he ask Hillary to be VP? Will she accept? If she says no, how will Barack handle it? How will he handle it if she says yes? How will he handle Bill? So many things to consider. Poor Barack. Running for President is hard work. It’s sure a lot harder than eating waffles, isn’t it?

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314 Responses

  1. I think he has to ask, but I would just love it if she said nah, not interested.

  2. I love how Arianna Huffington who has been once of the biggest personal attackers of HIllary, and others, are now coming out to talk about how wonderful she is.

    They are doing this for our votes, they need to know we will not be swayed by their new attitudes now that they have their “golden boy”. He did not win this, this has been rigged since he delivered the keynote.

  3. Thing is you all have to accept she wants the job. Wolfson publically says she would take it. Feinstein didn’t wander out there on her own thinking Hill is against it. She wants the job. Frankly, he had better ask her.

  4. Hillary DOESN’T need his permission to pursue health care legislation. What an absurd read of Congress. Further, she won’t shepard through any half-baked non-universal scheme.

  5. I think she knows that he will never offer it to her. By actively courting the VP slot he will have to very visibly deny her that, which will get those who are fence sitting now back down on our side.

  6. Melanie,
    you really think she wants the VP job? thats the easiest way obama has to get my vote. but i still wouldnt be happy to vote for Clinton as second fiddle

    what do you think?

  7. Obama will do what Ted Kennedy tells him. And that’s NO. So much for change.

  8. jonas, you just proved my point 🙂

  9. No, no, no, Gary. She wants the job. She wants to help him win and help him govern. Hillary doesn’t give a fig about credit. She never has. She wants to make sure competence is returned to the White House.

  10. I don’t think he’ll offer the VP to her. After all, how would he reconcile a VP offer with his campaign pushing “the Clinton’s are racists” theme for months? What would he say, “We were just joking?”

    And, of course, there is no way she should accept such an insulting offer.

  11. glad to do it, gary!
    i´m in Europe right now so I´m following things from the other side of the Atlantic

  12. Since the Democratic Nomination Process has now become a cross between a made-for-tv miniseries and telemundo, I think that he will ask her (when she agrees to say no thank you). That really is the only way he can even ‘make a play for her voters’. I am sure others are telling him that this is what he needs to do, but that he and Michelle do not yet believe it. I think that the powers that be at the DNC truly believe that PUMAs will come back and that he does not need Hillary. I hope that he believes it , because I want an historic loss in November.

  13. I don’t see how Hillary could accept — she doesn’t want to be this election cycle’s version of John Edwards. So, I expect Obama will look elsewhere.

  14. Personally, I hate that Hillary has to play second fiddle, but she has something that Obama doesn’t and that LEVERAGE.

    Riverdaughter & Anglachel nail it with their posts regarding her speech and how she signaled her conditions for a full “endorsement” on behalf of the people who voted for her.

    They are soooo scared that even though Hillary officially “suspended,” WE ARE NOT ASSIMILATING.

    We are no longer “yellow dog Democrats.”

    We have power.

    We have the majority of the party.

    We are the BASE of the party.

    And they are scared.

    WHY? Because Hillary’s not a political whore like the rest of them. She doesn’t NEED them. We don’t NEED them.

    IF (and that’s a big IF), Hillary does accept a VP post, I know that everything she’s fighting for will be on the table. She will not sell out Universal Healthcare or her Green Energy plan. If that’s not on the table, she will not accept.

  15. Melanie, Hillary is way to smart to not know that Obama can never offer her the slot, so it only makes him look more the rat he is when he doesn’t offer it to her. It also cuts her tether to the titanic…..

  16. I wonder what Howard Dean wants him to do.

    I’m really torn on this. I don’t like the idea of the better candidate playing second fiddle, but I also want someone in that slot who’s not only competent, but will be able to stand up to him when needed. I can’t think of another Dem currently in the rotation who has the spine HRC has. I used to be a staunch Richardson girl, and after he pulled out I pondered him for VP, but I think his gifts are better used in a position in the cabinet that sends him out to deal with foreign nations.

    If Obama does offer it and HRC does accept, I pray to gods nothing happens to him. Even something like a car accident will turn into Vince Foster all over again.

  17. Clinton doesn’t want the VP slot.

    What she wants to do is show how incredibly weak Obama is as a candidate.

    The one thing that should have come out of their little “private meeting” is a joint statement tthat both acknowledge that an Obama/Clinton ticket would draw attention away from the crucial issues facing this nation — that the media would concentrate on rumors of conflict between the “clinton” and ‘obama” camps, instead of concetrating on the start contrasts between the Democratic nominee and McCain on issues like the economy, health care, energy policy, and Iraq.

  18. Melanie I think you are dead wrong, are you sure you aren’t an Obama supporter? Because no one who is a Hillary supporter thinks she is interested or should take the job. But the point is moot, he won’t ask and that will tip the scales.

  19. My favorite scenario, I think I’ve said before but I’ll repeat since I’m one of those old-fogey low-information voters who repeats things all the time…is this:

    When I say I won’t vote for Obama, people imply that life would cease to exist if I don’t….

    But with the VERY SAME PEOPLE

    When anyone suggests that Hillary should be on the ticket, they say, “but then I can’t vote for it!”

    Life will cease to exist if Obama doesn’t win, but they can’t vote for the ticket if Hillary’s on it.

    Ah the hypocrisy.

    I’m with you. I won’t vote for the ticket even if she’s on it. It’s the mirror of the corporate world where the more experienced woman is second fiddle. And why? Because the good old boy bullies acted on a GRAND scale rather than on the smaller corporate scale to oust the woman. And yeah, if she were the nominee, I’d vote for the ticket even with him as VP, because it would be the right configuration, a true 16-year scheme…although I’m still not sure I want his Chicago way in the white house, but that’s for another discussion.

    Some of the wackier O-bots say that if Obama doesn’t win, Hillary’s career will be ruined! My feeling instead is that if she took the VP , her career would be ruined. Not exactly the pinnacle to spend your last years before retirement as a figurehead. …although she’d get her name into the history books.

    Regardless, he’s not going to ask her. He only thinks of himself, his needs. He KNOWS he’ll get Hillary’s voters back. So he’s going to choose whoever he wants to choose.

    BTW: That fellow Holder, who is on Obama’s VP committee was involved in granting the Marc Rich pardon.

  20. If Sen. Obama manages to win the GE, he needs to win without Hillary. Otherwise he will be seen as a lame duck from day one.

  21. I agree, Kim….Melanie has been posting kumbaya comments here and they are soooo out of place.

  22. I think Jr. (that’s what I call him as in Jr Senator of Ilinois) does not want to pick Senator Hillary Clinton because he does not want anyone to outshine him and it will seem as if he needs her help. I think he is in over his head. The guy’s done nothing but run for something for the past twenty years it seems- and once he gets to a position he right away starts trying to get higher. He is obsessed to keep climbing up it seems. Well now he’s there at the top- and I think he is nervous. Why?

    Well- it’s been a bit like the Wizard of Oz–with David Axelrod behind the scenes calling the shots and writing the script….

    Check out this ad by the RNC. This is mild compared to what’s coming.
    The big sleeping giant that is the extreme right wing has been in slumber as the dems battled. Now it’s waking up–and instead of the Dems sending in their battle tested woman warrior- she of the spine of steel- the stuff of legends–well–they send in instead the Jr. Apprentice into the ring…I just don’t understand what happened to the Party Elders…so reckless that they choose the least experienced of all the candidates.
    Here is the link:

  23. I don’t agree, I think that if her plans of Universal Healthcare, Green Energy and Educational plans aren’t on the table, she’s not doing it.

    Remember, unlike Obama and his wife and his followers, Hillary is not a political wh0re. She won’t back down,

    Like Riverdaughter & Anglachel said, Hillary and the people who voted for her HAVE POWER.

    Hillary will be VP on HER TERMS, nothing else.

    They need HER, not the other way around.

  24. I’d like to add if she doesn’t accept, I’ll be a happier camper.

  25. If Hillary were to take the VP there are two possibilities. One she’s a a dimwit for taking a nothing job to help an a-hole. Hillary has demonstrated intelligence, courage and great political skills. She’s not a dimwit. Two, she’s a saint, willing to help her fellow Democrat who showed how little he respected her husband and her. I think she’s a saint, and I will canonize her if she accepts the VP job, and will forever call her Saint Hillary.

  26. I will not vote for Obama whether Hillary is on his ticket or not. In fact I can’t think of anything more demeaning to Hillary or to women than for her to play second fiddle to this empty suit.

  27. Ha! I can’t stand Obama and I will not vote for him w/out Hill on the ticket(which in itself is a tough pill to swallow). But I know by Hillary’s actions she wants it because she thinks she can help him win and govern. It’s her own actions like publically saying she’d accept it, by keeping her core group of financers, by allowing her close friend make the argument she should get it…it’s clear to me she wants it. If she does, I do.

  28. Even if he were to ask her, I hope she’d say NO.
    He’d blame her for losing.
    I’m not voting for him, no matter what!

  29. Agree completely, SM.

  30. Evy,

    18,000,000 of us all knew it was coming; it was the other 18,000,000 that refused to believe it.

  31. If she says no, I’l;l be happy to cast a write-in for her. I’m just stating what I think is obvious. She wants it.

  32. Shainzona, on June 8th, 2008 at 7:36 pm Said:
    I agree, Kim….Melanie has been posting kumbaya comments here and they are soooo out of place.

    I really fricken resent this comment. I am for Hillary, and when I see the signals she is sending out, I refuse to ignore them. If nothing else, she wants to be asked, so had effing better ask her. But I will write-in Hillary if I can not vote for her.

  33. Gary,

    You and I think alike. I think Hillary has deliberately helped to put Obama in this no-win position. I don’t know for sure whether she wants to be VP or not. But I do have enough faith in Hillary’s intellect to know that she is consciously wielding her very considerable power.

    No matter how much the media abuses her, no matter how arrogant Obama acts with his playing golf routine, she is in an incredibly powerful position right now and she knows how to use it.

    Howard Dean doesn’t want her as VP, but he may be forced to help strong arm Obama into doing it. And we know Obama doesn’t want to. I remember in 1960, JFK and LBJ hated each others guts. There is no way either one on them wanted to share the ticket. And LBJ had a much longer resume than JFK did. But party leaders prevailed in the end.

  34. I really, really, really do not want a Unity Ticket. It would just perpetuate the media meme that it’s Hillary’s responsibility to bring all of her recalcitrant supporters (the bitter, clinging ones) into the fold. Let Barack do some work for a change!

    And then there’s the equally loathsome “Hillary is just dying to be Obama’s VP” meme, perpetuated by articles like this one in Newsweek,. Hillary’s depressed! But she would feel sooo much better if Barack gave her the VP nod.

  35. I think Jr. (that’s what I call him as in Jr Senator of Ilinois) does not want to pick Senator Hillary Clinton because he does not want anyone to outshine him and it will seem as if he needs her help.

    well, since Ashlee Simpson isn’t 35, I think Obama is going to have a tough time finding someone for VP who doesn’t outshine him ….

  36. Melanie,

    Maybe you’re right. But once she takes the job, how much leverage would she really have about her job description. Is there any way for a VP to make demands? I wonder how Cheney got all of his power. Would Obama be just as weak as Bush? It’s really interesting to think about it. I think Hillary would be more effective in the Senate. I’m afraid Obama would just have her attending state funerals and cleaning up his messes.

  37. This may sound super-goofy, but I have always thought (and occasionally joked) that Obama wouldn’t WANT a VP. His Awesome Kewlness (otherwise known as narcissism) needed no running-mate. His increasingly evident taste for authoritarianism (and his frightening resemblence to W) actually would make him ripe to be the first candidate ever not to select a running mate.

  38. Hill is not depressed. But you know her supporters don’t believe anything the media says. I believe she does want to be asked. After all, she earned over half the votes. She is not desperate for anything. She’s had a full life and plenty ahead of her. She’d do it only if she thinks she can help.

  39. Paul,

    I’m rolling around laughing here.

  40. Hillary wants to be offered the V.P. and then not accept it. SMART. To accept it. STUPID. She would reduce herself to a good obedient little sweety.

  41. Melanie. I don’t think she wants it..

    What I said was, is IF (and that’s a big IF) she does think about it, it will only be on her terms, aka, all her plans are on the table. Otherwise, she won’t do it.

    She doesn’t NEED more power, she’s Hillary M-Fing Clinton. She has 18 million people who voted for her. She has more power and more class and more Democratic ethics, and FDR’s heart and soul values than those suckers.

    Let them die like the hungry hyenas that they are.

    She’s a PUMA. We are PUMAs.

  42. boston, Hill is no shrinking violet. I can’t see that. If that’s the terms Obama offers, she’ll refuse.

  43. I think Big O’s real problem is that anyone qualified to be VP would be more qualified than he is.

    Hillary would take the job if it was publically offered. But she doesn’t want it or need it.

  44. B.O.W.L.
    He’s not taking Hillary down with him. She’s smart enough to see that.
    (btw, she’s already in the history books she doesn’t need a vp slot on the ticket – and Geraldine Ferraro already played that role)

  45. Two interesting things are going on here simultaneously:
    1.)The have launched their offensive on us as predicted in the NYTimes article yesterday and
    2.) DiFi et al are suggesting a Unity ticket once again reinforcing the concept that Hillary is required to “unify” the party.
    But it would be pointless for her to accept the VP slot because voters consider the *top* of the ticket when they make their final decision.

    What I find fascinating about this is that the idiots in charge are showing their hand. They are acknowledging that we are needed if Obama wants to win.
    If they were smart, they would offer her VP and when she refused, they could blame her for not unifying the party. But if it takes Hillary to unify the party, they should have thrown their weight behind her in the first place.
    Maybe what they fear is that they would offer and she would accept. Maybe that’s what DiFi is floating. It’s bait.
    What a quandary. How to satisfy the “winners” while trying to reach out to the “losers”.
    Bwahahahahahaaahhhh!

  46. If Hillary wants it I hope she is offered and takes it. if she does I will vote for him without problem.

  47. I don’t think she gives a crap about having more power. But she is sending out clear signals that at the least she wants to be asked. I refuse to pretend she doesn’t with Feinstein out there making the case, McCaulliffe and Wolfson saying she’d accept. And, her basically saying she’d accept. And, her keeping her core fundraisers. It’s just clear to me. This isn’t about what I want. But, Hillary wants to be asked.

  48. Obama has a VP in every port. “Yeah, baby, I promised you but ..”

    Nancy you’re a fine girl
    What good Veep you would be

    Nancy walks through a silent town wearing her silver chain made of finest silver from the north of Spain. They write songs about this kind of stuff

  49. Well, she clearly wants to be asked. That’s really the point. And, if she fricken wants to be asked, he had better ask her.

  50. All kind sof speculation, but if Hillary wants such a nothing job, and went begging Precious for it, then he’d no doubt pick someone like Evan Bayh, who was rumored to be Hillary’s VP, just to humiliate her.

    She’d be smart not to put herself on a losing ticket.

    “VP job isn’t worth a bucket of warm spit,” famous quote by John Garner, VP under Roosevelt, but Cheney turned that around.

    When Cheney interviewed all of those who wanted the job, he asked if they had any skeletons in the closet so he could vet them. Supposedly, those confessions gave Bush a lot of control over these wanna-bees.

  51. Think about it, what are Obama’s options? He could ask Hillary and then have Hillary and Bill around for his entire term. If that happened Michelle would probably drive him nuts talking about scratching Bill’s eyes out and other horrible fantasies. He would also have to deal with enraged blogger boyz and party leaders who don’t want Hillary around.

    If he doesn’t ask Hillary, a lot of her supporters are going to be royally PO’d and less inclined to vote for him. And the party leaders who supported Hillary will be pissed. If he puts another woman on the ticket or one of Hillary’s big supporters like Evan Bayh, a lot of Hillary supporters will resent that.

    Obama’s best option is to ask Hillary and have her say no. But she is signalling that she wouldn’t say no if asked, even though she doesn’t really want it. And as BTD points out, if she isn’t on the ticket party unity is going to be a lot harder for him to achieve. So he’s in a no-win position.

    I think it’s funny.

  52. For those of you who think she’d take the vp slot, does that mean he’d get the $ she raised for the presidential race had she won the nomination?

  53. Arabella: LOL!! Too funny. Somehow we have to tinker with the lyrics. What can we do with:
    And there’s a girl in this harbor town
    And she works laying whiskey down
    They say. “Brandy, fetch another round.”
    She serves them whiskey and wine.

  54. It’s really quite entertaining reading the comments here, because y’all think you have an amazing ability to read Hillary’s mind. You guys seriously need to stop projecting your hopes and dreams onto her – she’s her own person with her own goals and plans.

    Any objective observer who has heard Hillary’s surrogates over the last week would have no doubt that she obviously wants VP. Why? I don’t know and I won’t try to guess. I would however bet a lot of money on Obama’s VP being one of the following 4 individuals: Ed Rendell, Jim Webb, Bill Richardson, Janet Napolitano.

  55. Can you imagine having waged a 17th month battle for the Presidency and then settling for the #2 spot under someone who has less experience than you like Jr.?

    I think she is getting pressured by her biggest supporters to do this because they are afraid if Jr. does not have Hillary, he is more likely to lose. Also, with the Party split at the top- her supporters- I mean the big shots- want to have some power even if it is at least with the VP.

    Remember that SNL Skit where Jr. is calling Hillary on the phone to ask for advice? It is so obvious who is the better candidate. Sorry I am rambling. I think I am still in shock.

    The fantasy of the new electoral map that Jr. is carving has not been proven. The Dem leadership is hedging all their bets on that.

  56. Arabella Trefoil, on June 8th, 2008 at 8:00 pm Said:
    Obama has a VP in every port. “Yeah, baby, I promised you but ..”

    Nancy you’re a fine girl
    What good Veep you would be

    Nancy walks through a silent town wearing her silver chain made of finest silver from the north of Spain. They write songs about this kind of stuff

    You are definitely inside my brain! Nancy WANTS to be VP soooooooo BAD!!! She sold out her party – sold out 18 million people just for that VP slot. Take it Nancy, you’ll lose because YOU went back on your promise. We, unlike you, did not forget impeachment.

  57. I am still digesting this.

    But I think that on Tuesday she enlisted us 18 million as a club to smack the Republican obstructionist Senators with to get what she wants.

    “What do I want? I want…”

    For her its all about getting her good policy passed, and passing it takes a Senate majority or a very intimidated minority.

    If you are in states with crappy Senators, you will be asked to help intimidate them. Mine is Boxer/Feinstein so she doesn’t need my help much, but won’t you all help me phonebank Inohofe when she asks us?

  58. It is funny, boston. But I don’t think we can presume she doesn’t want it. Here’s the point to me, we diminish Hillary’s power when we say she wouldn’t take it, doesn’t want it. One of Hill’s supporters on another blog actually wants to launch a petition against him asking her. If everyone says hell no, then he won’t be in this pickle. So I choose to see Hill at least wants to be asked and he had better ask her.

  59. I wish all the players would wear white or black hats. No racial intent here, everyone knows that for me the ‘good’ guys are in Hillary’s camp. I am not sure who the ‘good guys’ are. How about DF, Hillary had the famous meeting in DF’s house,so does that mean that Hillary trusts DF? Does that make Michelle’s comment that this is being ‘floated’ true? Does Hillary have anyone in the Democratic Party that she can trust? I do not want her to run for VP. I think Obama will lose and I want to vote against him. I do think that if Hillary ran with him, they may win, but then she would be his lackey. This is why I do not do mysteries, except novels where I always read the end first so I can enjoy the book.

  60. I agree Melanie – I think she want so be asked too. And like I say, if she accepts I will vote for him. I dont think she would refuse.

  61. There is no way in hell a Speaker of the House wants the VP spot.

  62. Riverdaughter is right. It has already started. It’s HILLARY’s fault. Obama the great uniter could not unite his party. His fault, NO ,it’s HILLARY’s fault.

  63. boston boomer: what you said.

    it is hilarious, really. she has him in a triple bind.

  64. Hillary would never be anyones lackey.

  65. Melanie,

    What I was asking you is if you think there is any way Hillary could make demands in return for accepting VP and hold him to it? I don’t really know. But if she could do that it might be interesting. The only hope he has of winning the Presidency is with her on the ticket. I truly believe that. I don’t want her to do it either, but the more I think about it the more the situation fascinates me.

    I’d give anything to know what Hillary is really thinking. And I agree with you that she is making it clear that she wants to be asked. If he doesn’t ask her he will reap the whirlwind. She got nearly 18 million votes, more than he got.

  66. Sweetie Software Alert!

    bubble_buster!

    Any objective observer who has heard Hillary’s surrogates over the last week would have no doubt that she obviously wants VP. Why? I don’t know and I won’t try to guess.

    So don’t then.

    She doesn’t want it. IF (and that’s a big IF) she thinks about it, Hillary will do it on her terms only, i,e, all her plans are on the table – scratch the Obama plan.

    Otherwise, it’s over the cliff – and we will patiently wait for 2012.

  67. At this point, I find I’m abundantly disinterested in whoever Obama might pick as a running mate.

    Some possibilities are more incendiary that others, I suppose, but I’m in no hurry to see the fireworks.

  68. Melanie: I’m pretty sure that I will not be upset if the VP spot is not offered to her. Except for the whole unity thing on the Democratic side, it doesn’t really help Obama with the Republicans or Indies and, actually, it makes me no more inclined to vote for him than before. In fact, the fact that he is the nominee and not her has given the press even more power than before. The DNC royally screwed up here. If she had won fair and square, the media would have suffered a severe blow. The more I see of these party leaders the more they look like rank amateurs.
    But in any case, this is all kabuki. He can’t live with or without her.

  69. Nancy is one clogged artery and one pretzel away from the presidency,

  70. Hi,
    I’m new here, but I’ve posted a lot on other Hillary Clinton friendly sites.
    For what it’s worth, I think Obama has to ask Clinton to be VP.
    He wants her delegates.
    As long as she has them, she’s dangerous to him.
    That’s why I think she’d say no.

  71. bostonboomer, on June 8th, 2008 at 8:12 pm Said:
    Melanie,

    What I was asking you is if you think there is any way Hillary could make demands in return for accepting VP and hold him to it?

    Well, she has already started to lay that out in her speech when she talked about universal health care, which he does not support.

  72. Riverdaughter,

    I don’t want him to offer it to her either, because I’m afraid she would feel obligated to accept. But the polls show that the majority of Democrats do want her on the ticket. Clearly they will be upset if he doesn’t even ask her.

  73. Melanie,

    Yes, that’s true, but I don’t see those demands as being tied to her being VP. I think she is signalling that if he even wants her support he has to start talking about those issues and making some commitments.

  74. Nancy uh, this is Barack. Listen, it’s just that I kind of promised my wife, you know, Michelle. She really wants the job and I can’t say no.

    It’s all good though. The ladies will like a Mr. and Mrs. ticket… Hello?

  75. I saw on another website a suggestion that Obama ask Donna Brazile to be his VP.

    ROFL!!

    That would be perfect. He could saddle himself with one of the most repellent female Democrats.

  76. Arabella, how about this

    and the dems say
    Hillary, you’re a fine girl
    what a good prez you would be

    but our precious, our unity pony…
    is Barry

  77. RD, the polls do not bear you out. For example, she improves his odds in OH. And, he’s competitive with her, and ONLY her, on the ticket, in Kentucky. Look, this isn’t what I want, OTOH, if he were to win without her, I would seriously worry about who the hell was going to advise him. But this is all meaningless. Point is, she wants to be asked. The media doesn’t mean diddly to Hillary’s voters.

  78. Thinking back on Hillary’s comment from months ago about how it looked like we were headed for a unity ticket, I think the answer to the “does she want it question” is simple – she knows the only way the Dems are certain to win is with a unity ticket. Whether she wants the job or not is irrelevant. My take is that Clinton camp has let the Obama camp know that if she is the nominee, she’ll appoint him VP and that if he has any sense (and I don’t think he does),. he will reciprocate if he is in the position to do so. I can’t imagine Hillary has much personal interest in being VP, but that’s not why she would do it. She would do it so the Dems take the WH – beginning, middle and end. She’ll strike her deal and get universal health care and a few other things out of it, and that will be enough. I mean, if Hillary gets universal healthcare, and a resolution to the mortgage crisis out of taking the VP slot, do you really think she’d turn it down?

    All that being said, Obama’s campaign is built on anger and cynicism so I doubt he’ll do the right thing.

  79. “But the polls show that the majority of Democrats do want her on the ticket. Clearly they will be upset if he doesn’t even ask her.”

    Exactly. But really for me it’s not really even about if she accepts or not. She wants to be asked. I would vote for Hillary if she were on fricken Nader’s ticket, so that’s me.

  80. Arabella Trefoil, on June 8th, 2008 at 8:17 pm Said:
    Nancy uh, this is Barack. Listen, it’s just that I kind of promised my wife, you know, Michelle. She really wants the job and I can’t say no.

    It’s all good though. The ladies will like a Mr. and Mrs. ticket… Hello?

    You
    Are
    Killing
    ME!!!!

    I’m trying to honor Pat Johnson here with a bag of popcorn and it’s impossible to eat with your comments!

    (keep em coming!)

  81. if i were McCain, I would offer her the VP slot.

    think about it – it would jive perfectly with his “maverick” image, she would say no but he would get credit for asking, and it would really help him score points with Hillary supporters who are on the fence about what to do.

    the repubs don’t really like him much anyway.

  82. Agreed, Lori, doubt he would do the smart thing.

  83. I agree with bostonboomer that he’s in a fix. I also agree with those who say he’s too insecure to have her as VP. He’s got to pick someone who is at least as mediocre as he is. Richardson is a good start. Dumb and dumber. I don’t really think he will ask her. I think he’d much prefer to give the impression that he is snubbing her. His ego is gargantuan.

    I wonder what Hillary and BO discussed in their meeting. I was kind of hoping she had invited him for pizza and a dvd — er, movie. But apparently not.

  84. I’m actually hoping like heck that Jr. (thanks Evy) doesn’t offer it, offers it to Sebelius or some other generic “woman”.

    But of course, I want the Hill to run in 2012, so Obama sabotaging himself is part of my plan…

  85. Thinking back on Hillary’s comment from months ago about how it looked like we were headed for a unity ticket, I think the answer to the “does she want it question” is simple – she knows the only way the Dems are certain to win is with a unity ticket.

    I think she also knows that with Obama at the top of the ticket, there is a very good chance that a “unity ticket’ would fail anyway.

    So, even if she would accept the VP position, she won’t do so until mid-August…. by that point, it should be clear whether her presence could assure his victory, or whether Obama would lose anyway — and by going on the ticket at the VP, she’d just be providing the Brazile’s of the party an excuse for why their candidate failed.

  86. If this were the old days we would have party leaders who could force the nominee to do the right thing even if he didn’t want to (e.g., JFK/LBJ). But all we have these days is weak, spineless Democrats who picked a loser and don’t even have the guts to do what it takes to make him win.

  87. I bet he’ll pick someone totally unexpected, say Michael Bloomberg. Been hearing murmers about this.

  88. Boston, my understanding is that Kennedy extended the offer as a courtesy and LBJ stunned him by accepting. i could be wrong about that, though.

  89. Oooh, Richardson is another good choice to help ensure Hillary’s victory in 2012!

  90. The man doesn’t have an original thought in his head. So unless someone takes the reins, he’ll just stand and jive and bamboozle until howard or donna or whoever tells what to do and what to say.

    I think BO will do whatever the DNC tells him to do. I have no clue what that is, but he/they won’t win my vote unless Hillary is at the top of the ticket.

  91. Kind of a foreboding headline on Yahoo News just now:

    Big Brown Left Alone After Stunning Loss

    Heh.

  92. I’m sure he’ll pick one of the bloggr boyz. or maybe all of them. he’ll gather them all together and let them have a caucus, and see who emerges the winner.

  93. They won’t ask Hillary because they are afraid she might accept. Then what are they gonna do with Bill Clinton? Besides, Obama would look weak just standing beside Hillary; he would also sound stupid and fuzzy beside her talking about issues and policies. They also do not know if Hillary can bring in the majority of her supporters–the ones whose names never appear in blogs. I for one will STILL NOT VOTE FOR OBAMA EVEN IF HILLARY IS VP.

  94. Bloomberg? Well, that ought to help with Appalachia. Hehehe.

  95. bostonboomer, on June 8th, 2008 at 8:26 pm Said:

    But all we have these days is weak, spineless Democrats who picked a loser and don’t even have the guts to do what it takes to make him win.

    That’s why I think we as PUMAs need to stand our ground. We are not spineless. We are not weak. We have shed our “yellow dog” and morphed into PUMAs.

    We need to be, as I think Honora said (if not, please correct me), the DNC’s chemotherapy.

  96. Forget about the POLLS. That would be the same as believing the MEDIA.

  97. Melanie: I disagree that she *wants* to be asked. It is that she *must* be asked. In this instance, it’s standard operating procedure. If she says no, they get no unity thingy, but they can blame her for not getting unity. Still, if he can’t achieve unity without her, maybe they bet on the wrong horse.
    If she accepts, Obama is screwed big time. He looks like an awkward adolescent next to her and she will always show him up. Plus, I don’t think she would help him all that much because she would shine a spotlight on his unreadiness. People *think* it’s a dream ticket right now but they would soon come to realize that it would be better if the positions were switched, especially when McCain goes at him on the experience and national security front. He’s toast in that department; she’s got credibility. But when voters realize that if Obama is elected, Hillary goes into deep freeze, they’re going to rethink whether that’s what they really want.
    So, he’s in a tight spot.

  98. Kiki, that’s funny.

  99. I am personally begging Hillary NOT to even consider that VP slot. Obama, his team and the jealous losers around him such as Dashle and Kerry hate the Clintons and want nothing more than render Hillary useless.
    Hillary as an Obama VP would give them the perfect opportunity to cripple her once and for all.

    I rather have her be the Liberal Lioness she is in the Senate.

    Senator, I beseech you that ye would confirm our disdain for Obama’s VP slot.

  100. Well, ok, but let’s keep him in that tight spot for now.

  101. Felizearte,

    Would you vote for her if Obama promised that she would get her universal health care plan?

    She isn’t going to just accept it, if offered. She’s gonna win something big – that’s the entire point of the speech she gave.

  102. MABlue, beg her after she’s asked. This is chess not checkers.

  103. Oh, I am voting for Hill this fall one way or another. I’m done voting for empty suits.

  104. Melanie,

    I think you are right about JFK asking LBJ. Silly me, I heard on the radio yesterday that the party leaders prevailed on JFK to do it. I don’t know why I bought into anything in the MCM. I must be slipping. Please, if I do it again, somebody wake me up again. I don’t want the pod people to get me!

  105. boston, they may have done that with assurances he wouldn’t accept. I just know he asked only as a courtesy, thinking he would not accept.

  106. Melanie:

    I just want her to share my disdain for the Obama VP slot.

  107. MABlue,

    I agree with Melanie. I like seeing Obama in a no-win situation. Selfishly I want to protect Hillary too. But I also trust her to make the right decision for her.

  108. Me too, MABlue. i want her to turn him down flat

  109. jules, I don’t really think he will ask her. I think he’d much prefer to give the impression that he is snubbing her. His ego is gargantuan.

    Thus the united democratic party…led by a gargantuan.
    He is so adolescent – and passive aggressive. Mr. “I’m going golfing rather than listen to Her speak.”

  110. I think the more senior democrats who are projecting that Hillary wants the VP slot are doing so because they don’t want to be left out in the cold by Obama if they continue supporting Hillary, so if she’s in his administration as VP they won’t need to feel bad about abandoning her.

    It makes no political sense whatsoever for her to want that job. It would be a non-job as it was for Al Gore and she’s already played second fiddle to a president so she doesn’t need to do it again. Just because the republicans managed something different with Dick Cheney doesn’t mean it can be repeated. Bush allowed Cheney power because he’s a lazy ignorant man who needed someone to do the work for him and he was happy to let him get on with it. On the other hand Obama’s controllers are already in place and Hillary wouldn’t feature in that line-up.

    I don’t understand why any Hillary supporter would want her to take a subordinate job to someone who was so clearly her political inferior. She went for the top job and the vice-presidency offers her nothing except the humiliation of working for an inexperienced, untalented, unethical man – something women have had to put up with for far to long.

  111. BB: We have no party elders this time, just a bunch of middle schoolers. Remember, it was Kennedy who said something like “we don’t want to ask her because we want a real leader” or something like that. So we don’t have to worry about them pressuring him to ask her.

    He just plain won’t ask her. Remember the folks Hillary brought in … ALWAYS COME BACK ;-).

  112. BB: “I don’t want the pod people to get me!”

    It really does not hurt. All your worries, all your fears will soon disappear. Say goodbye to your angst.

    You too will see the wisdom of voting for O in the Fall.

  113. I hope Hillary does not accept the VP spot. Not only would this be demeaning, but I would still not vote for obama. He would only be using Hillary to get her supporters to vote for him. I certainly hope Hillary supporters are not so easily manipulated.

  114. so Obama MUST choose her so he looks bad? That makes no sense.

  115. I hope he does not offer it to her just because I do not want him as president he would still be in charge and she wouldn’t have any control that he didn’t let her have and our country would still be worse off for having him as president so even with her as his VP I do not feel I could vote for him as president. Plus the word in media is Michelle O HATES Hillary and mama would not let him have her as VP.

  116. Relax, anne. Has zero to do with what I want. But I am going with the signals. And, it looks like Hill wants to be asked. Further, LBJ was Senate Majority Leader, and he took it.

  117. Laura – Count me as easily manipulated! if she is asked and accepts I will vote for that ticket!

  118. There will not be a unity ticket.

  119. I have 2 points to make:
    First, Slightly off topic but I can’t stand it… just the phrase: “Furthermore, Democratic Party leaders like Kennedy, Kerry, Pelosi, and Carter”..is it any wonder we are in this mess with “Leaders” like these? This party stinks, right? Well, look no further for the reason.

    Secondly, why HRC is having anything to do with Feinstein is beyond me as SHE came out the MORNING of the Montana and South Dakota primaries calling for Hillary to QUIT! I will never vote again for that turncoat! That’s voter suppression!

    Lastly, HRC should NEVER accept VP! If she does, it will be the end of her chance at ever being President…over..kaput. And, I believe she knows this better than anyone. Her speech made it VERY clear to me she is not done with this election.

  120. Stop and think of the debates if Obama was smart enough to pick Hillary. The presidential debates would be painful and then the VP candidates would debate and Hillary would be like the Everready bunny running rings around anyone that McCain could pick. No part of me wants Hillary to save Obama and part of me thinks that’s what would happen if he picked her.

    I can’t find the comment, but I think that the best thing McCain could do would be to offer the VP to Hillary. She would not accept it, but it would make lots of people love him. If he picked the Alaskan woman for VP, I think he would clean up.

    I am so over Obama, I would rather discuss who McCain should pick.

  121. the only reason she would consider it is that we all know that if elected, within a year he will grow bored and look for the next big thing to pursue.

    what’s the next big thing?

    I think his real goal is to be an ex-president. don’t think he didn’t notice how much $$ Big Dog makes giving speeches.

    I don’t think BO has ever done a single thing for four straight years. how will he manage the boredom?

  122. What signals Melanie? Wolfson has stated that she doesn’t want the job.

    The rest of the “signals” were gossip and spin put out by the Obama camp to make Hillary look like she was a supplicant to him. What have I missed?

    The vice-presidency is a stepping stone to power if you don’t have a national profile because it gets a poliitician one step nearer the White House, that’s why it would be a good move for any politician who wasn’t Hillary. However Hillary has already served in the White House, she doesn’t need to do it again. People can already visualise her as president.

  123. UpstateNY,

    Noooooooo! Nooooooooo! That would be a fate worse than death.

  124. Honora: “If he picked the Alaskan woman for VP, I think he would clean up.”

    si.

  125. Cate,

    Ted kennedy is a fine Democrat as is Diane Feinsten as is Charlie Rangel. I dont diss anyone just for disagreeing with my choice if they have the history that they do.

  126. Honora, I was the one who suggested McCain ask Hillary. I think it would be brilliance on his part.

  127. heh, BB.

  128. kiki: still considering third party?

  129. Richardson would be choice, but this hispanic has lost respect for him… then again I would care about his choice if I was still a democrat. I am pretty sure, baring any unforseen issues, that even if Hillary was on the ticket I still wouldn’t vote Dem. Not until they give us our party back… this deranged product of mass hysteria “Kool aid, anyone?” .. is pretty scary imo.

    I am reminded of the “dangerous cult” gogglebomb … that can be applied to the Obama campaign

  130. Well, judith, that’s you.

    I didn’t know Feinstein did that.

    Wolfson said she wasn’t persuing it, not that wouldn’t accept it. he said she would.

    Look, chess not checkers.

  131. I’ve also heard them (the media) going on and on about having her big supporters like Rendell and Strickland and others be on his VP list because they think they are the reason she won in those states god for bid it was because of her and the fact we liked her better. He would be smug enough to ask one of her big supporters like that before asking her.

  132. I don’t have a problem with Rangel…as for the others, I can’t attach that label: ‘fine Democrat’.

  133. Cate, thanks for remembering the DiFi had come out for Hillary to quit. I thought I was hallucinating when I heard Feinstein had hosted the ‘little meeting”, as I had remembered her backstabbing call to quit.

  134. I went to a Pride Fest today. there are a lot more GLBT people in Alabama than one might imagine. one touching moment – I got into a conversation with a group of women who got all teary-eyed talking about how they cried during HRC’s speech yesterday.

    they were all older women – I asked and they are not big internet people and never go to blogs. so it’s not just us 🙂

  135. nmp: Obama will not ask Richardson.

  136. Understand this:

    Hillary “the baddest and fiercest woman on the planet” Clinton is not needing more power than she already has.

    She doesn’t need to be Obama’s VP. She doesn’t need a DAMN THING.

    Hillary is a servant of the WE THE PEOPLE. She has won the popular vote, she has won the favor of TRUE BLUE DEMOCRATS whose “loyalty is not transferable” (h/t to Heidi Li). And WE THE PEOPLE have spoken.

    What she wants is her plans as president to be enacted. Everything. The whole pie. Not some, but ALL.

    If Obama wants Hillary to be VP, he MUST submit
    to her causes & plans. He NEEDS her. Not the other way around. Obama NEEDS us, not the other way around.

    But as many of you have stated, more eloquently than I, he’s not gonna do it.

    WHY? Because Barack Obama is a hyena, scavenging for votes he did not earn, stealing what was not his, and act like he’s the “man.”

    How is Queen Lioness Hillary going to defer to a scavenging hyena?

  137. You said she was seeking it, Melanie, Wolfson stated clearly that she isn’t. I’ll take his word for it not yours.

  138. I don’t see Feinstein as a “fine Democrat”. Her voting record is more akin to a moderate republican. I think she is a DINO(democrat in name only). But this is a different topic.

  139. Upstate….yeah. I can’t stop considering the Greens. no decision though, I want to see how things play out this summer.

    I still believe Hillary will be the nominee. problem solved!

    I do like the Greens though.

  140. kiki: me 2.

  141. Of course it suits the Obama camp to portray Hillary in the subordinate, begging role, desperate for Obama to offer her the crap job of VP. It builds him up and tears her down.

  142. Melanie – I dont know what post of mine to you answered above – but yes, what I post is my opinion.

    Anywayz, i think I have said my peice – I think emotions are running very highthere and I understand it. But I am not emotional on this anymore so I probably coming across badly to some.

    Wish you all some peace on this –

  143. kiki- You may be right, but what is bigger than President of the United States? Bragilina , Pope John Paul, Princess Di? I know that they are all dead or two people, but that was all I could come up with. Ex-president is more lucrative and less stress. Can’t we just let him run for ex-President?

  144. We agree Leslie…she’ll never see my vote again.

  145. The Young Judith: Kennedy has been SO NASTY to Clinton that Clinton supporters can’t help but feel differently toward him after this campaign. Same with Charlie Rangel.

    Feinstein on the other hand, I tried to find any mention of her endorsing Obama. Couldn’t find it. She hasn’t yet endorsed him as far as I know.

    BTW: Dan Baltz thinks the primary ended really well!

    http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/05/21/alls_well_that_ends_well_if_th.html?nav=rss_email/components

  146. Is it possible that SHE knows the only way he can win is with her on the ticket and even though she does not want it, would lay it out their for the sake of the party. She is a democrat is ner heart and soul.

    Melanie I would be more incliined to think she does not want it, but does not want to face the conseguences if he loses.

    As to asking another woman, that would be such a gigantic insult to Hillary CLinton and her voters that we would probably vote for a big hairy ape, before Obama.

    I have several co-workers who honest to god think he is going to ask a Kennedy, to complete Camelot and the whole theme. Actually, they think Patrick or Caroline,

  147. Lovely – Judith is ‘not emotional on this anymore’…then kindly take yourself somewhere else.

  148. If there are typos I am 50 and can’t find my damn glasses

  149. Kim, heh.

  150. Honora! great idea!! let’s offer him ex-president. the whole country, the whole world, will pretend he was president and the bestest one ever! maybe then he’ll step aside for the better candidate.

    Plan B: maybe Brangelina will let him be them (for the good of the country)

  151. I think Obama will offer it to someone else and will think that he’s insulting her by doing so, not realising that he’s really doing her a big favour.

    Hillary will be a powerhouse back in the Senate.

  152. Obama is wrong, wrong, wrong on almost everything. Worse, he cavorts with and takes advice from criminal Republicans. Look how he handled religion, which we discussed biefly in comments earlier. He insisted for years, and it was his first big lecture to the left, that Democrats should wear their religion on their sleeves, just as Republicans do. I said two years ago that that was a stupid strategy that showed his inexperience and would eventually bite him on the ass. And lo and behold, Rev. Wright happened, and his tiny little ass took a big chunk for that miscalculation.

    I’m pretty sure he’ll treat he VP slot the same way, certain as he is that Dems have played it all wrong for years, and he knows better.

  153. Anne, I agree.

  154. Honora, “Can’t we just let him run for ex-President?”

    Hi-larious! I’ll vote for that.

    BO is “my” junior senator. But I ‘d never vote for him again – for anything. His election to US Senate was a landslide. But when you run against nobody for several months, (and then ultimately fun against Alan Keyes from another state) you are bound to win big.
    The one truthful thing he said was that he didnt have the experience to be president. I wonder what changed. One year in the Senate isn’t great experience.

  155. myiq2xu, on June 8th, 2008 at 7:55 pm Said:
    I think Big O’s real problem is that anyone qualified to be VP would be more qualified than he is
    ***********************************************************

    Bingo!

    Obama’s VP choice will be more qualified for the Presidency than he is.

    Count on the Dems to make voting for John McCain the easy option.

  156. Hillary would be a fabulous supreme court justice. she could bargain for that. and it’s for life – she wouldn’t have to do all this campaigning.

  157. And think of the ad that will run showing all the debate footage with Hillary, Biden, Dodd and Edwards all saying HE DID NOT HAVE THE EXPERIENCE NECESSARY. Found my glasses.

  158. I’m praying they don’t offer her the VP slot, or if they do she turns them down flat. I really do not want to see her on this ticket. Color me silly, but eventually it’s all going to hit the fan. Not sure when that’s going to happen, but I do not want Senator Clinton damaged when the house of cards comes tumbling down.

    As far as blame? She’s going to catch it either way because I’m convinced the Obama folks and the DNC want not only victory but a complete erasure of the Clinton years. They’re already trying to destroy President Clinton. It’s a scorched earth approach–destroy the legacy, rewrite history, and annoit oneself as the savior of democracy.

    It’s a no-win situation. She’s better off in the Senate, collecting evidence and waiting for the right moment to expose the whole crew for what they are: frauds and liars.

    From our end, we can keep the heat on, make sure the roar of protest continues with a repetitive: No! No! No!

  159. Kiki, Hillary is in politics because she wants to use the political process to make change in American’s lives – like universal healthcare for example.

    Supreme Court Justice would sideline her. Do you think she didn’t like the campaigning? She looked to me like it energized her like nothing else.

  160. Honora is right… if Mccain selected sarah Palin, thats a solid ticket for the reps.

    Found this june 4 article form realpolitics.com

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/06/the_vp_case_for_gov_sarah_pali.html

    “Another reason for selecting Sarah Palin early would be to force Barack Obama to make a mistake. He’d have to rule out choosing someone like Virginia Sen. Jim Webb as his running mate, for fear of exacerbating charges of sexism. And if he chose a woman other than Hillary, the impression Democrats are wimpy would be intensified.”

  161. Total sidetrack here but:

    @Evy: “I think Jr. (that’s what I call him as in Jr Senator of Ilinois)…”

    Dang, that’s good. I shall call his name…. Jr! Fits for someone who couldn’t be bothered to finish more than the first year of his first term ‘ cause that would mean hard work holding down a job. How very much like someone I know… rather like a… a shrub.

    Speaking of which, that’s my concern — I know someone has to do the work and it won’t be him. I know Hillary wouldn’t care, as long as the work gets done. And she would do it splendidly, to be sure. But I understand where MABlue is coming from — I like the idea of her as the Liberal Lioness of the Senate, away from all this jazz. Plus, I don’t trust the Dem establishment to do right by her, and that’s putting it mildly.

    All the same, I can’t decide if this is theater. As in, Jr. has to ask in order to get the 18 million of us, since he can’t do it on his own. (Can he do anything on his own, I ask?)

  162. Anne,

    Wolfson also said she would do whatever she is asked to do to win in November. Not everything politicians say is straightforward. This is like chess.

  163. I am just rolling on the floor in hysterical laughter reading all these posts. She does want it! She doesn’t want it! He has to ask! He doesn’t have to ask! He’ll offer! He won’t offer!

    Only three people know what Hillary wants – Hillary, Bill, and Chelsea. The rest of us will just have to wait and see what unfolds.

    Will it make a difference in the way I vote if Hillary is VP? No. I don’t want Obama to be the President. I’ve made that commitment and I’m staying true to it. Anyone who says they don’t want Obama as President, but will vote for him if Hillary is VP needs to take a closer look at what they truly believe.

    Does anyone honestly think Hillary would have power as VP? The VP serves at the pleasure of the President. If the President wants her to sit on her ass for 4 years, that’s what she’ll have to do. And Obama, only using Hillary in an attempt to win the White House, would relegate her to non-entity status so she doesn’t outshine him.

    So, if you’re against Obama as President, but would consider it if Hillary was VP, take a closer look at how you’re being used. That’s exactly what the DNC and Obama want.

    By the way, whoever it was who said Dianne Feinstein is a good Democrat must not live in California. She’s a female Joe Lieberman.

  164. I’ve heard this idea of the Supreme Court floated, and I oppose it. It’s akin to trying to remake her as Snow White, trapped in that glass coffin. And it would satisfy all the WRONG people, the people I want her to continue fighting. Besides, as Anne said (and I agree) she’s in politics for a reason.

  165. Alice,

    The funniest part, and the horror of Obama’s position is that no matter what he does, a lot of people are going to be angry with him and either way he probably isn’t going to get Hillary’s hard core supporters back. He and Howard and Donna and Nancy can delude themselves all they want. Right now at least 30% of us won’t vote for him. And with his arrogant attitude, that number won’t go down. My guess is it will go up by November.

  166. You can just go by the number of posts each thread gets and the number of new people, we are more resolved than ever before and the dirty stuff on Obama hasn’t come out yet.

    Hireheels is doing a Million woman march anyone interested?

  167. annabellep,

    I don’t think there is a chance in hell that he would put her on the Supreme Court. And several people have made it clear she’s not getting Senate Majority Leader either. If it were anyone else but Hillary, I’d be worried; but I think she will find a way to handle all of them.

  168. nmp, thanks for that link. I guess I’m not as up on politics as I thought. She sounds perfect for the R’s.

  169. Lori, My answer is no. He can’t promise her UHC because as a VP, she has no power to initiate or submit the bill to congress. The Democratic legislators who stabbed in the back are still there to sabotage her effort. Remember that it could have just as easy for Obama to submit a plan similar to Hillary’s but the people in his staff and his main supporters (insurance companies and the healthcare industry) would not let him. Obama can promise Hillary but he can’t deliver and Hillary as VP is in limbo, relegated to attending funerals. Hillary of all people, should know what a VP is. Gore was quite active because Bill Clinton gave him an important role. Obama and his group will never want Hillary to shine if they can help it.

    I agree with everyone else who has said it is a bad idea for her to be VP. Even in this matter, the media and Obama supporters have not ceased to denigrate her by hinting or outright saying that she wants the job. Why in the world would she want to be part of a losing ticket. Hillary cannot save Obama. She survived them. Now she is soooooo much stronger. They have only succeeded in making her a legend in her time.

  170. yesterday Jr played golf; today he is golfing. I guess he thinks he’s being pResidential.

  171. sorry…today, Jr is biking, not golfing again

  172. My comments sure are taking a long time to show up.

  173. I need to get back to work. I love coming here. I learn so much…

  174. Yes she’ll take the job if he offers it and it looks like it might help the Democrats to win because she’s loyal but that doesn’t mean that she either wants it or is seeking it, BB.

    Politics isn’t just about chess moves it’s also about power and you can be sure that Hillary will want to place herself in whatever position will give her most power. She can wield more power as a Senator enacting legislation and acting as a check on the president than she can in a non-job (which you can be sure they’d make it if she had it) like the vice-presidency.

    The only way I can imagine her wanting it, is if she were also handed a brief, like UHC, but it seems unlikely that Obama would want to offer her any real power whatsoever.

  175. I’m glad at least, that the public has figured out the media bias, so that if they trash her further for the sake of preventing a VP nod, it won’t hurt her legacy

    Voters have little doubt as to who is benefitting from the media coverage this year—Barack Obama. Fifty-four percent (54%) say Obama has gotten the best coverage so far. Twenty-two percent (22%) say McCain has received the most favorable coverage while 14% say that Hillary got the best treatment.

    http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/voters_give_media_failing_grades_in_objectivity_for_election_2008

  176. How come Hillary had to capitulate to Obama sooo quickly, if all he plans of doing now is exercise? He sounds more and more like W ever day. Can we get car stickers made that say Jr., just like the ones that say W?

  177. Caroline Kennedy as VP?
    Obama appointed her to the VP search committee. Maybe she will do what Cheney did. Cheney was on Bush Jr’s VP search committee also. Maybe that is why Ted Kennedy endorsed.

  178. I absolutely don’t want Hillary on the ticket. Many reasons – one of wjich – I am now convinced Bo will now take a dive like agreed with the RNC when they picked and financed him.
    He’ll campaign “leisurely” now:
    “Shrinking the electoral map.

    From now on, the great majority of Americans can be excused if they barely realize a presidential election is under way. They will see virtually no TV ads, visits by candidates or local news coverage.

    That’s because this campaign, like the last two, will focus on about 15 competitive states. Both parties see the other states as reliably in their camps and not needing attention, or totally out of reach and not worth the effort and expense of trying to win them. In either case, these states will largely be ignored.”
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080608/ap_on_el_pr/campaign_countdown
    Now watch this drive!

  179. Alot of people I work with say a Kennedy would seal the deal, and it is obvious Ted was in it for something.

  180. hasn’t BO figured out that this isn’t about a caucus anymore.

  181. Cate – that was as nasty repsonse to a sincere post.

  182. Kim- pls do not count on Obama figuring out anything.

  183. Honora: Unity, people like you and me.

  184. Oops forgot, we are talking about the Obot

  185. Teresa I AM a Clinton supporter. Not just you. I am allowed to say an opinion that is not the same as yours and still be a Clinton supporter!

    I know he has sucked, I am saying I am not going to diss him completely becuase I know a lot fo the very good things he has done in the past and I mesusre those things before I totaslly destroy someone’s character, ok?

  186. Holy Crap, nmp, if McCain chose Sarah Palin, I do believe it would be over. They could win easily. We’d all be talking about McCain Democrats come next year.

  187. Yeah, but last time Caroline Kennedy was in the White House, she was a baby.

    She doesn’t know squat, all she’s done is endorse and advocate for NYC education. Not Statewide, not countrywide. Citywide. Look at her choice of endorsement. If she really wants to live up to her dad’s presidency, she should run for senate and do it the hard way like Hillary has. Then in 2020 or whatever, she can run for president.

  188. I am about to become a bona fide member of the fuckemalls, it is a zoo out there

  189. I’m glad Obama is taking a VaCay, actually. It soooo helped that other wasn’t-elected, Ned Lamont, right?

  190. What about Patrick? Think about it, everyone would get all dewy eyed

  191. And SM Obama doesn’t know squat either and he is the ?? nominee ??

  192. Felizarte

    Of course, I know that the vp doesn’t introduce legislation, but that’s irrelevant. I can tell you that if Hillary is offered the VP (because Obama may need to do that if he wants to win), the deal will be that he must propose her health care plan, and the rest of the Dems are going to have to go along with it. Obama can offer that deal. Yes, he could reneg on it, but if that’s what he has done to get her on the ticket, he won’t reneg.

    Hillary will do it because universal health care is more important to her than anything else – and yes, history will reflect that it was her healthcare plan that was introduced and hopefully, signed into law. If Obama were to reneg on it, there would be a black stain on his name for the history books – he doesn’t want that.

    Universal healthcare is worth it. Without that guarantee, she will not accept. Go read her “concession” speech – it’s a display power and ego isn’t part of that equation.

    We’re all going to feel a bit demeaned if she’s on the ticket, but I’ll swallow my pride for universal healthcare, and Hillary will feel this campaign has been worth it.

  193. Clinton should not accept the VP job; it’s bad for her career and she will end up being the grunt. Not the right message to send to the 18m that voted for her.
    As far as what Obama should do – the only decent thing is to admit he used the race card and encouraged his supporters to game the caucuses and intimidate Clinton supporters to get votes. He should pull out of the race and allow Hillary to take her rightful place as the Dem Party nominee to go toe-to-toe with McCain.

  194. I just released several comments by regular users that were caught in the spam filter. I don’t know what happened, but if you were wondering about what happened to a comment it should show up now. Kim one of yours was in moderation, who knows why?

  195. Hil on the ballot as VP is immaterial. ‘NoBama’ means No Frackin’ Obama without ‘ifs’, ‘ands’ or ‘buts’. Period.

  196. mystic4hill, on June 8th, 2008 at 9:10 pm Said:

    I agree with mystic. Obama could lock Hillary up in a closet for 4 years. She would just be an instument for him to gain office.

    I won’t vote for Obama, because I think he is a totally corrupt politician. Having Hillary on the ticket does not change that view.
    It will break my heart, but I would have to vote against Clinton if she were Obama’s VP.

  197. I don’t know. It’s just SO tempting to see how crazy out-of-their-minds all of the Obama people would be with Hillary on the ticket. But, he is not worthy of her. So, I wish Obama would choose a male running mate. Then, if McCain chose Condi Rice as his VP, and that ticket won!!!… well, that’d be too, too WONDERFUL for me, a devastated Hillary supporter. But hey, I’m not bitter.

  198. I haven’t rally gone further than he should ask her.

    Elenor Clift is an idiot.

    I think he’s golfing to appeal to white men. What a hack.

  199. Me neither, BB, there is nothing moderate about me.

  200. Oh crap, if McCain chose Condi, I could not do it, no way. Ewww!

  201. MAWM I have thought about it too and I dont think Hillary on the ticket would bring me in either.

  202. Anne,

    Wouldn’t it be funny if Hillary were the VP and took control of everything the way Cheney did? After all he has set a precedent by claiming that the VP is a unique office that is part executive and part legislative. If she were VP, the press would probably claim that she was running everything anyway. Obama will be making his regular verbal gaffes when he isn’t in front of a telepromter, so he will be a lot like Bush. It will get to the point where everyone realizes he has no clue what he’s doing.

    All I can say is if for some reason it works out that Hillary is VP, I hope that she undecuts him every chance she gets and that Bill hangs around the WH driving him nuts. Just my little fantasy…

  203. I think Hillary Clinton should run away from that man and his goons. If she accepts the VP position she looses her delegates and her power. I know the majority of the party want it, but the majority of the party voted for her to be president.

    I am sure that Obama would see Hillary Clinton as much as an asset as a liability. I really don’t think it is going to help much. It might help immediately and give Obama the bump in the polls he should have gotten. But it won’t last in face of the republicans. Hillary Clinton can do nothing about Rezko, Auchi, Ayers, and the rest of the clowns ,. The republicans only need to present the truth for a change to win the election. Senator Clinton cannot even change that, but she will be blamed for it.

    The Clinton’s will figure out something. They always do.

  204. Oh I cannot see that, picture it, Michelle as first lady having tea with Bill, that is just way too out there.

  205. Kim, on June 8th, 2008 at 9:41 pm Said:
    And SM Obama doesn’t know squat either and he is the ?? nominee ??

    Together they both don’t know squat what everyday people need. Fock them. I swear, if I still lived in Mass (I was born & raised there, live now in FL) – I’d vote Teddy & Kerry out. They disappointed me – but for the LAST TIME. I’m a PUMA now. Not a yellow dog.

  206. Can’t a President his or her VP? The press and blogger boyz will demand her resignation whenever Obama makes a mistake.

  207. Kim,

    Bill would probably charm her if Michelle had the chance to talk to her one on one. He has a lot more charisma than Michelle’s husband.

  208. EDIT: Can’t a President fire his or her VP?

  209. BB – I’m sorry, I just can’t make myself think about this question. I’ve trained myself to ignore it when BTD talks about it and I want to ignore it now.

    {{shudder}}

  210. I am beginning to suspect that perhaps the main object of the whole Democratic Party nominating charade was to stamp down Hillary. Winning the whitehouse was only secondary. It should have been obvious from the beginning that Hillary is the ideal running mate. If Obama wanted it, it would have been offered to her even before the end of the primaries, though privately. It was never their intention.

    Obama can’t ask her now. She will definitely overshadow him and I don’t think that Hillary will agree without full adoption of her stand on policies. I am sure that Hillary is aware, more than anyone else, what the score really is. She is simply being dutiful and “keeping her powder dry”.

    At any rate, her being a VP will still not get me to vote for Obama as president.

  211. WS,

    The VP is an elected official and the President can’t fire him/her. The only way to get rid of a VP is by death or some kind of unsurvivable scandal.

  212. It will be interesting to see who he choses. I am sure he has made so many promises. It was evident that Bill Richardson favored Hillary in the debates, so he had to promise him something for the endorsement, then there is Edwards, who said he would not endorse. Then the DNC bigwigs, he owes more than his ass can handle.

  213. {{{ Katiebird }}}

    I’m sorry! I understand.

  214. He’s probably already brought up the matter, and she has likely refused.

  215. WS,

    No, the President cannot fire the VP. They have to resign or be impeached.

  216. Every one I have talked to outside of here has agreed on that point, Felizarte, they want the Clintons out, the question is why?

  217. Katiebird, I couldn’t think about this question either if I didn’t still think Obama will self-destruct before the convention.

  218. did someone say Obama was BIKING? could he be any more W-like? I hear tomorrow he’s clearing brush on his Chicago ranch.

  219. The President can control all the duties of the VP, I believe except for the duties outlined in the consitution like casting the tie break vote in the senate.

  220. I don’t think Obama’s ego can handle the inevitable SNL skits about a clueless Obama having to be tutored by a VP Hillary in the middle of the night.

  221. Kim,
    I think they want the Clintons out because they don’t want any eyes on their corruption.

  222. Mawm, That is technically true, but it’s pretty obvious that Bush failed to control Cheney.

    WS, You’re right. And Obama’s ego is what will save all of us from having to actually deal with this happening. He probably really thinks he can win without her, but he can’t.

  223. Kim, on June 8th, 2008 at 9:41 pm Said:
    And SM Obama doesn’t know squat either and he is the ?? nominee ??

    Exactly.

  224. mystic4hill, I totally agree with you that is what I’ve been saying I do not want him to pick her because he would still be our leader. So yes I am in totally agreement of what you said so I second that….lol.

  225. Lori, Hillary can introduce UHC and probably get McCain to sign it into law. She’ll be more effective shepherding it through congress. I am resolute in my decision to vote for McCain even if Hillary is on the ticket.

  226. WS, on June 8th, 2008 at 10:08 pm Said:
    I don’t think Obama’s ego can handle the inevitable SNL skits about a clueless Obama having to be tutored by a VP Hillary in the middle of the night.

    HA! Obama as president would line up Lorne Michaels and SNL cast on a firing squad.

    Remember NBC/MSNBC is owned by GE aka future of Nuclear Power owner.

  227. KIM:
    But since Condi is a woman AND an African American, that would steal whatever thunder Obama would have.
    Condi is very smart, an excellent debater, a concert pianist and has southern Alabama Baptist roots. And she’s very popular with fellow Republicans.

  228. It will be satisfying for him to ask because it will reveal his neediness, loud and clear, to his supporters, as well as his willingness to throw his own principles away to further his ambitions! (It would also be fun to see the expressions on Pelosi and Michelle’s faces!) Thus, the best would be for him to ask and for Hillary to turn it down (having led him to believe she’d take it*): that would both damage him in the eyes of his cultmembers, and give fence-sitters no grounds to betray their better judgment that B.O. will make a poor president. It would also give her sweet revenge much sooner than otherwise.
    People should realize, by the way, that B.O. would NOT be willing to trade his healthcare plan for Hillary’s, and would be aghast at the thought that she would want to inject her own policies. (*that would be Hillary’s legitimate grounds for turning him down.) The man is genuinely, authentically SEXIST—even in his attempts to reach out to women. Remember he asked one Hillary supporter if she’d change her mind if he’d agree to kiss her? Another time he thought he was being pro-woman by stating that it’s women who provide us with nurture and teach us morality (not in those precise words but similar). He is so misguided as to what it would take to woe women—I laughed when I read: “Linda Douglass says female voters will respond to Obama’s life in a “female-centric” family, as he discusses the influences of his mother, grandmother, wife and mother-in-law.”

  229. The V.P. is appointed, not elected. The president can tell the V.P. to hang it up.

  230. I don’t care if she is high priestess of sheba, she has been caught on the record lying.

  231. Judith: I wasn’t saying you weren’t a Clinton supporter. People can have a difference of opinion with you. That doesn’t mean they’re attacking you.

  232. two thoughts:

    I said above I think Hillary would make a great supreme court justice. I believe that because I think she’s more liberal, progressive, whatever, than she gets to act because of the re-election thing. I think she could have a tremendous impact and really be as progressive as she wants to be with a lifetime appointment. I could be wrong, but I believe that.

    secondly, I think some of us, including me, are mystified by her loyalty to a party that’s so not loyal to her. I read a comment on another blog the other day where someone said she understands that the way politics are set up, or the way they have evolved, in this country means that the only way you can effect any change is through one of the two parties. I hate that, and she may too, but she’s a realist. so I guess she sucks it up because she’s dedicated to causes, and parties, in this case the dems, are the only way to go. I wish with all my heart she’d align with a third party, but when I read that blog comment it made sense.

  233. You are not serious about his asking a woman if she would change her vote for a kiss? Because that is just freaking mind boggling. First, because it shows an ego much, much bigger than I originally thought and second that he thinks women can be swayed in that way. It says he thinks we are truly stupid.

  234. Hillary-zilla:

    Incorrect. The VP is an elective office described in the Constitution. They cannot be fired, only impeached.

    (They can die or resign too)

  235. I don’t want HRC in his ticket. I don’t want her near that nuclear waste.

  236. SM, YOU SAID:
    Yeah, but last time Caroline Kennedy was in the White House, she was a baby.
    She doesn’t know squat, all she’s done is endorse and advocate for NYC education. Not Statewide, not countrywide. Citywide. Look at her choice of endorsement. If she really wants to live up to her dad’s presidency, she should run for senate and do it the hard way like Hillary has. Then in 2020 or whatever, she can run for president.

    I AGREE BUT THAT DID NOT KEEP OBAMA FROM BEING NOMINATED! The same backroom wheeling and dealing can make it happen.

    I am being facetious. But wouldn’t it be absurd if this notion went viral?

  237. Obama was selected not elected. The only reason that Hillary would be on the ticket is to get Obama elected President. She will have NO POWER period. Those who think so are fooling themselves. She will never be allowed again to run for President if Obama wins. In fact I bet Obama will not pick her as his VP when he runs for reelection. The reason being he will consolidate his grip on the party, country & won’t need her. He will also pick his successor which usually is the VP & no way in Hell it will be Hillary.

  238. Kim: I am absolutely serious (about his offering to KISS a Hillary supporter if she’d vote for him) and I’ve been dismayed that more wasn’t made of the event—it’s far worse than the “sweetie” business. Even Maureen Dowd, who has virtually always written in pro-B.O. terms in her column (there are 2 exceptions I know about) described the event in her column. First he got on his knees, then offered the kiss. Anyone can look this up! Can you imagine Hillary going up to a male B.O. supporter and asking whether he’d switch to favor her if she sat on his lap or something? The very fact that B.O. thought his moves were no big deal is extremely telling.

  239. Felizarte, you are right. And it would be absurd and I’ll fight it until I run out of breath.

  240. Cate — You’re too new here to start playing Thread Boss. The young judith is entitled to her opinions, and to a little civility.

  241. My spousal unit thinks Hillary should NOT (NO WAY!) take the VP if offered.

    I have mixed feelings. Look how much power Cheney has…..she could get her healhcare plan in there like Cheney got his energy plan. I think she could take advantage of the situation to get things she cares about.

    I’m sort of for it. She is holding all the cards anyway. All she has to do is say “Let’s go!” and half the party would follow her anywhere. She can put the screws to Obama anywhere, anytime.

  242. Teresa – you wrote this to me:

    “The Young Judith: Kennedy has been SO NASTY to Clinton that Clinton supporters can’t help but feel differently toward him after this campaign. Same with Charlie Rangel.”

    This implies I am not one.

    And yes, I have felt a great deals of hostility from people like Cate and Honora and others.

    Say what you want about Jeralyn, Teresa – she knows how to keep people civil.

  243. Obama and a Kennedy, that would make people weepy

  244. myiq2xu,
    Hillary-zilla:

    You are both right.

    The VP was appointed until the twelth ammendment to the constitution was passed that provided for selection by elections.

  245. oh, and i forgot Hatshepsut1988, – who is exceptionally rude as well.

  246. Hillary Clinton has worked too hard, too damn long to be support staff. I am sorry, but, that is not where she is needed. I think everyone has read between the lines of Katiebird and BB and we have all probably thought about it, but no…

  247. I LOVE the song Brandy. It takes me back to 1971, when I was living in Hawaii with my husband-to-be who was in the Navy at the time. Ah, nostalgia! Here are some new words to a fabulous old song:

    There’s a town in the USA
    And it’s been corrupt for many a day
    The Congress is giving our rights away
    It’s time to send the bastards home

    There’s a girl in this DC town
    And she’s gonna take the bad boyz down
    They tell her get out of the race right now
    And she smiles, when she tells them “fine”

    The voters say, Hillary, you’re a fine girl,
    What a good Pres you would be
    Yeah you’re our only hope of saving us from the DNC

  248. I want to know why the feck the Dem’s did the protracted process? Wasn’t it to find out who was the stronger candidate? That’s Hill, but they give it to the asshat who had that great ten days in February.

  249. Hatshepsutt1988: that is so despicable sounding, almost like a barroom pickup line and now that you said it, I think I remember something about it. But it was, BO, therefore swept under the rug. When I met him in SC, he was almost dismissive.

  250. CBS poll of Clinton supporters: 63% will vote for Obama, 22% defection rate to McCain, 7% undecided/don’t know, and 8% will stay home.

    Among all Dems, 80% will vote for Obama, 12% defection rate to McCain, 3% will stay home, and 4& undecided.

    Kerry had an 8% defection rate to Bush.

  251. And when I met Edwards, he was really short, not that it matters, but he was my height.

  252. I think McCain should choose Sarah Palin, Governor of Alaske as his running mate.

  253. the thought that obama would actually offer the veep position to hillary leaves me saying when, where, how? won’t happen! think about who surrounds this man and why they picked him. power and they want hillary on the sidelines. gee!

    hillary can do more out of the obama group’s influence. and 17% would vote for obama? i think it is more and more than enough to sink obama.

    this obama group is so arrogant that they thing the song is about them so to speak. expect cunning but not smart decisons from them.

  254. I LOVE the song Brandy. Takes me back to 1971 when I was living in Hawaii with my husband-to-be who was in the Navy. Here are some new words to a great old song:

    there’s a town in the USA
    and it’s been corrupt for many a day
    the Congress is giving our rights away
    it’s time to send the bastards home

    there’s a girl, in this DC town
    and she’s gonna take the bad boyz down
    they tell her get out of the race right now
    and she smiles, when she tells them “fine”

    the voters say, Hillary, you’re a fine girl,
    what a good Pres you would be
    yeah you’re our only hope of saving us from the DNC

  255. I don’t think it matters much who O picks. Hillary could make some difference for him but his candidacy rises and falls on him alone: such is a cult of personality. On the other hand, since McCain’s candidacy isn’t a cult and is a bit boring he needs to do something to spice it up and Sara Palin would do the trick. She is good on gay issues but is pro-life. I’ve heard the abortion rights dog whistle too much. Remember, the Ds had a chance to stop Clarence Thomas and didn’t have the balls to do it. They are no friend to women.

  256. Well I am turning in, good night all, stay civil, we are all in this together. Hopefully we will meet in Denver, crowning the person who deserves it, because I really don’t think this is over. Never underestimate a Clinton.

  257. I think TeamObama does not want Hillary as VP. I think they feel about the same about her as many supporters from the ObamaSites or ObamaNewsNetwork, that is, continuing Hillary hate. They’re playing nice, but they don’t want her.

    Similarly, I don’t think Hillary wants the VP position. Though she may have mixed feelings. I think she knows it’s about the only way Obama gets elected and she’s a loyal Democrat. But I think she’d like to either run again in 2012 or stay in the senate and become a powerhouse there (the Ted model).

    I think it would be a horrible mistake of her to take the VP position because it would be the classic sexist situation all to common in the business world of the more able women playing second fiddle to the inexperienced male, doing all his work for him. I think that would be a real setback to Hillary and to her followers and to women.

  258. Many of those polled may have been people not calling themselves Ds any more.

  259. I think these polls are so funny I’ve never been called nor has anyone in my family or anyone I know . This poll also can’t be to right not with all the anti- obama people out there saying they will vote for McCain before Obama I would think it’s more then that . A lot of people are really upset and mad right now so they will say they aren’t going to vote for him which by the time November comes some not all may decide to vote for him but right now to much bad feelings.

  260. Oh, on the VP position and the 12th amendment, one bit that’s kind of interesting and has many interpretations and varying opinions, is the idea of someone who has already been president serving as the VP. Or for that matter serving in any other post that could be in line to be president. So for example, Bill Clinton could theoretically serve as VP. Many reasonable interpretations of the 14th amendment (no more than two terms as pres.) is that you can’t be elected more than two terms, but you can server more than two terms. So Obama could theoretically pick Bill, and if something bad happened, Bill could serve one term.

  261. Obama’s pick for VP is insignificant as it would be to McCain’s. If McCain picks Palin there is a chance that a woman could become president and the R’s would start to expand their base again. O and the DNC are really flirting with disaster here.

  262. WS

    CBS poll of Clinton supporters: 63% will vote for Obama, 22% defection rate to McCain, 7% undecided/don’t know, and 8% will stay home.

    Among all Dems, 80% will vote for Obama, 12% defection rate to McCain, 3% will stay home, and 4& undecided.

    I think that ordinarily we could assume that most of the defections would go to Obama on election day (Even among us. Even Me)

    But, we’ve never nominated a candidate like Obama. With me, every time I try to imagine what it would take for Obama to win my vote I think of 3 or 4 things that make it impossible for me to vote for him.

    So as the rest of the country becomes aware of those issues, I think it’s quite possible that we’ll look back at this weekend and find that it’s the height of his popularity.

  263. All this talk from the Powers That Be and the DNC…I think I can sum up our feelings to them with this:

  264. Ben: Yeah, I’m going to check some voter registration statistics starting in July and see if I can get any indication of how many folks have stayed D.

  265. I don’t have a clue on what basis THE YOUNG JUDITH is alleging that I am “exceptionally rude” —I vaguely recall only her remarking that she failed to know the meaning of “derogate” —a word I had used in my post (in describing something B.O. does to Hillary)–and that she couldn’t be bothered to find out. I can see I’ll need to find a website free of such gratuitous charges….but before I quit….

    On the case of B.O.’s offering a Hillary supporter a kiss in exchange for her vote, it was early April 08:
    “Sen. Barack Obama approached first overflow in the parking lot outside of the Scranton town hall, and immediately went to Denise Mercuri, a
    pharmacist from Dunmore who was wearing a Hillary Clinton button. She
    held an Obama button in her hand, and he asked what he needed to do to
    get her to wear his instead of his rival’s.

    “What do I need to do? Do you want me on my knees?” he asked.
    He then conceded, keeping with his flirty trend of the day (see earlier
    report), “I’ll give you a kiss.”

  266. Don’t forget the arrogant comment from Obama about how his supporters wouldn’t vote for Hillary, but Hillary’s would vote for him.

    The clueless narcissist. I doubt the sweeties will settle down and
    when
    I am asked by how I might vote, I take my cue from Michelle Obama (repeated by Gerry)–“I’ll have to think about it.”

    Actually, there is no way in hades I could vote for someone like Obama.
    I think the freak show is just beginning. So much for the supers choosing
    their money candidate and telling the base to get lost.

    They can’t buy my vote.

  267. Lola,

    Just keep in mind that Obama hasn’t been selected yet. It won’t be final until the votes are tallied at the convention. Don’t count Hillary out until that actually happens.

  268. The point of my post was that Obama is in a no-win situation and Hillary has cleverly helped to put him there. It do think it is fun to speculate about what he will do and how he will handle this mess he is in. My guess is he’ll handle it badly–an arrogantly.

    Thanks Conflucians for a very interesting and stimlating discussion.

  269. captsfufp, a perfect song it fits perfect…

  270. I’ve registered to vote in two states and in neither were we able to register a party affiliation. it’s not that we didn’t HAVE to, we didn’t have the opportunity. so that’s something to think about, and something impossible to chart. I can say I’ve always voted for democrats, and now I won’t, but there’s no official party switch to note.

  271. bostonboomer,

    here here! Don’t count her out. Two months is a lifetime in presidential election politics.

  272. An indictment by Patrick Fitzgerald would do the trick.

  273. Well, if those numbers hold right now, thats going to be a problem for him in the swing states and the GE in the general. Kerry lost just 8% of Dems (don’t know the stay home right in 2004 but we were unified more or less in 04), and right now, at least 12% will vote for the Repub with 3% indicating they will stay home..

    Also, those Clinton supporter numbers will be more pronounced in the swing states like Ohio, Florida, and Pennsylvania.

  274. BB: Wouldn’t he have been in the same situation regardless of what Hillary has done? How did she help put him there?

  275. Mawm, on June 8th, 2008 at 10:57 pm Said:
    An indictment by Patrick Fitzgerald would do the trick.

    Shh, Mawm, you don’t tell your wish after you blow out the candles!

    For the record, the best gift for Big Dawg’s birthday would be a coup at Denver.

  276. How do you get away from this fact: the whole purpose of the DNC/Kennedy manipulation of the Obama candidacy was to knock out Clinton and WJC. That is why the party turned itself upside down to make it so even when it was not so. Why was every effort being made to get her out of the race before the primary calendar was finished? Because if she amassed “the popular vote” and a trend of victories, it would give the Clintons political power within the party. Clinton in the VP does not make sense from this DNC/Kennedy perspective because it perpetuates the Clinton presence—the VP is not a closet character even when not productively employed. If party leaders pressured JFK on the VP post it was because LBJ had big credits within the party (rather than the popular vote side of things). That same political structure that went to bat for LBJ is the same party structure that wants to get rid of the Clintons. The Clinton inside the party political base has always been centered far more in the governorship/state party officials rather than in the DC congressional side of the party. I would love to see Bill Richardson get the nod for VP, that would help ensure Obama’s defeat. There is a Kennedy on that vetting committee; you can bet that Caroline will be doing what Uncle Ted wants done. I think we should spend our time on how we organize the McCain/Clinton supporters and the no Obama but not McCain Hillary supporters—those two groups add up to enough to elect McCain but it would be a tight race. We need to make him lose by a landslide.

  277. Buy my vote! Now there’s an idea. My price is a mill. Let’s see how good his fundraising really is!

  278. Felizarte – it’s almost impossible that McCain would sign that legislation. The Dems would have to override the veto – and that’s not likely.

    I just think y’all need to get a bit more grounded about this. Read her speech – she’s laying out her principles. If she’s offered the VP,. she’ll take it if she’s guaranteed UHC and maybe a couple other things – she pretty much said it in her speech. If she isn’t, she won’t acccept.

    There aren’t any real mysteries. UHC is more important than everyone’s feelings and no Republican is going to sign into law.

  279. good point, WS. In CA or CT or NY it won’t matter too much. But the Clinton supporters may be more loyal and more inclined for McCain in those other states. Especially, if there is someone new and refreshing like Sarah Palin as VP. I read though that her new baby has Down’s Syndrome. The Obama campaign would probably attack her for not being a good mother if she campaigned with McCain.

  280. There needs to be a serious wake up call before anyone believe that Barack Obama’s gonna enact UHC. It won’t happen.

    That’s the problem. He has shown no honest devotion to Democratic ideals. He takes the half-assed measure at best. Anything between what we’ve got and what’s he’s proposing is still too far from actual help.

  281. Teresa,

    She could have made it abundantly clear that she won’t take the job. Instead, she is sending mixed signals. I think what Obama would like is for Hillary to make a deal with him to turn down the job. But she obviously hasn’t given him that easy out.

    Right now he is in a situation where people are either demanding he put her on the ticket or demanding he not put her on the ticket. And she isn’t helping him out of his dilemma. I’m pretty sure she has decided to give him enough rope to hang himself.

    It’s just my opinion, not really worth anything I guess.

  282. Eleanor Cliff disgusts me. She pretended to be a friend of Hillary’s
    and mentioned how kind it was that Hillary had lunch with her after
    her husband’s death.

    But, she lives in D.C., and when she saw how racists the Clintons were
    in their South Carolina campaign (as manufactured by the media), then
    Obama was her candidate.

    How anyone in the media with half a brain can think that Obama
    has the qualifications, integrity, or would be electable for the majority of the
    American public is beyond me. Even if Bush were running for a third term, Obama would lose. Ayers stomping on the flag, his wife wishing
    they had killed more people, Reverend Wright’s racists rants, Farrankan, Rezko’s influence peddling with Obama as #2 after Gov. Blag.(especially Illinois Senate Bill 1332), Father Pfleger, and who knows what else? Stunning.
    tells The media-driven Obama ‘movement” tells us a lot about the “indolent,” celebrity-obsessed, negligent “media”
    that holds us for the next ad (on TV) and diminishes our democracy
    by making “entertainment” and propaganda out to be news.

    Bread and circuses indeed. Do you think the media would have given
    Hillary a free pass if this happened at one of her “town halls”?

  283. Lori, thats if you can trust Obama’s word. What’s going to stop Obama from ignoring Hillary’s requests for UHC if a VP’s power is completely dependent on a President’s discretion?

  284. I just put up a fresh thread. This one is getting pretty long.

  285. If Hillary is on the ticket, I’ll be rooting for her but I won’t be voting for her.

    If the Democrats were so concerned abont McCain being the new Bush, they should’ve picked the one that could beat him without counting on dumb luck.

  286. Barbara: member of The Collective.

  287. that ticket won’t be happening.

  288. WS & Ben C.:

    The key to PUMA’s effect is not our raw numbers. It will not take 18 million of us to swing the election.

    In 2000 it came down to a handful of votes in Florida. In 2004 it was a few thousand in Ohio.

    If Obama loses just a few percentage points in the swing states like Ohio, Florida, PA, etc. (the ones he lost by 10+ points to Hillary) then he loses the election.

    If my state (CA) is in play, Obama will already have lost.

  289. Maybe her supporters, not her, are the ones that are trying to throw him off.

    I honestly can’t see her wanting the VP spot. I truly can’t.

  290. erratum–Axelrod/Obama’s campaign manufactured the charges of ” racism” to turn away Black voters from the Clintons…. and the sniveling “media” spread it. What utter trash!

  291. Ben,
    Sarah Palin opposes same-sex marriage. But you’re correct about abortion rights. That scare tactic used to make me salute it, but no more. I’m passed menopause, as are most of the boomer women. The only thing we have left is the hope of a woman Prez.. Well, Obama had the DNC do a “d and c” on that dream!
    I’ll never reward his behavior with my sacred vote. Ever.

  292. I hope she absolutely forces him to ask her just so she can tell him “NO!” I can’t think of a bigger insult to her or her supporters than asking her to help him win in November after he implied she and her husband were racists, and that her supporters were poor, toothless hicks. In a crazy-as-a-fox sort of way, though, if she did get on the ticket I think she’d be cementing the loss of that ticket in November.

    Tossing us crumbs for a woman that actually won the nomination is the height of arrogance.

    I know the ObamaNation thinks we’re stupid, but I really hope they think we’re THAT stupid. lol

  293. Assuming they really think Obama would win, the powers around Obama WILL NEVER LET ANY CLINTON ANYWHERE NEAR THE WHITEHOUSE in an official capacity. Imagine the trouble she would be to them if, she started asking to look into the records of the previous administration on IRAQ: The Halliburton, Blackwater, GE and other big money contracts running into the billions perhaps even billions?

    How about the torture locations? Guantanamo? Illegal wiretaps on American citizens?

    How about looking into Cheney’s whitehouse records of the people he met with in formulating the energy policy? How about all those contracts in connection with Katrina? Remember, she was in the whitehouse before. She knows all the places she can look into.

    And being a woman, it would be so awkward for the big boyz to ask her to play ball. She won’t. Ken Starr couldn’t find anything on her. Which means, they have no dirt to use against her that would stick.

    But Junior? What does he know? It will take him months to find all the bathrooms in the whitehouse; or even how it operates, even if he had months to have a transition team. But that is exactly how the big boyz want it.

    It is very obvious to me why Obama is that proverbil post turtle and we all have pretty good ideas as to the characters who pot that post turtle there.

    They’ll never ask her. They’d rather lose the election that put her in the whitehouse as VP.

  294. myig2xu California 55 McCain This would be the news scoop of the 21 century.

  295. It is certainly anyone’s privilege to do so, but I find it rather unbelievable that any true supporter of HRC could ever advocate her taking the VP role.

    She is superior to Obama that I could never vote for such a ticket without feeling that I was justifying the treatment she and all women have received.

    And…for her to help him win would be a travesty.

    Obama, the DNC, and the far-left wing all need to be defeated.

    The Democratic Party needs to be destroyed as it now is, and return to its centrist roots.

  296. The DNC has cause all of this. The members must be expunged V.P. what a joke.

  297. Thanks Charles .. that is interesting …

    appreciate it very much – I always forget the McLaughlin Report . Stopped watching it some time ago I can’t even remember why ..

  298. Regency, I know. I have no illusions about mccain, but if he’s the greatest threat to our survival the world has ever known, then maybe our so-called leaders shouldn’t have treated the primary as our big chance to show how unseriously we’re taking it all. The whole, yes we can nominate the most manifestly unfit for this office person this side of GW, and we can do it while gratuitously offending almost every significant voter group in the country and employing every Republican tactic in the book and still get you suckers to vote for us, we’ve got it in the bag, can’t lose no way now how no worries, thing kind of mitigates against the whole, now wait a darn minute, this is serious business ladies meme.

  299. appropriate for her, as the senior and more qualified member, and yet the unity ticket is the only thing that would get him my vote in November. Given, I wouldn’t vote McCain for dogcatcher, but I won’t vote for a candidate whom I consider to be altogether unfit for the job.

  300. Quite frankly, I think these people are pushing this because they damn well know Obama is going to lose by a landslide. They probably think he can pull it out if she is on the ticket. I hope she says, not no, but HELL no! He wanted the job, he wanted the nomination, even though an idiot could have told him he’s in way over his head. So let him sink and swim on his own. I’m really tired of everyone else always having to rescue him. If he needs her hlep, then he doesn’t need to be at the top of a ticket. I won’t vote for him at the top, and I’m quite sure that many other Hillary supporters won’t either.

  301. Hillary at the top of the ticket needs no help. Obama at the top of the ticket needs help. And the DNC could not firgure this out. Outrageous.

  302. CognitiveDissonance & Richard are right on, on this one. Hillary’s VP pick wouldn’t have been a big deal as she could have carried her bases of support AND Obama’s support. I always found it funny (but more angry) that Obama would brag about how he could take her support, but she couldn’t take his. It was in fact the complete opposite.

    Poor baby Obama, I’m playing the world’s smallest violin for you. Not even God himself could convince me to vote for any ticket with him at the top of it.

    If he’s such a “change agent” why can he only garner half the support of his own party? Why can’t he change my mind? The jig is up, now, Mr. Obama.

    How can Senator Obamanation save the world when he can’t even save his own party and himself?

    “Mr. Obama straddled on a wall,
    By his own vice he had a great fall,
    All of his horses and all Hillary’s men
    Couldn’t put Hopey together, again.”

  303. if they really wanted to win, they should have endorsed Hillary. She shouldn’t be VP to Obama. They are doing everything to get her out of the Senate. Maybe it is because she said they had done a lousy job.

  304. I agree with whoever said upthread that when they said “No Bama” they meant “No Bama”.

    The vice-president serves at the pleasure of the president. Cheney has such power because Bush “allows” him to have the power.

    The best way of shutting Hillary Clinton up is to make her VP. She can serve tea and cookies at his direction.

    Given that he hasn’t a clue how to govern he has a whole passel of loser hanging on his coat tails that do know and have been panting for a chance to do so.

    Hillary getting what she wants from him? I think not. Even if he promises and crosses his heart? If you think his word is worth a bucket of warm spit.

  305. The Establishment ran a newbie rockstar senator for the purpose of preventing a Hillary presidency! They DO NOT want Hillary on the ticket – and are NOT concerned with unity.
    Obama began calling for Hillary to GET OUT in mid-February – before the women got riled up and before she attracted a “movement.”
    Everytime Hillary won a large state – we saw evidence of the “fix” as SDs responded by rolling out for Obama.
    It was like the Iraq War – it was going to happen regardless.

    IF Hillary is offered the VP, it will all be done with the “understanding” she will reject it.
    Then Obamedia will declare she rejected it because she’s planning to run again in 2012. Hopefully, she will, but in the meantime the media will probably invent more anti-Hillary narratives.

    The Establishment and Pelosi, Kerry, Kennedy – have poisoned the well and have too much vitriol to walk back now to make a 180 in support of Hillary. They were silent as the Clintons were accused of racism. They allowed the media’s misogyny – and allowed the Clintons to be smeared based on remarks referencing history.
    Whatever it took for the Idiots to nominate their boy.

  306. I heard a RW talking head on Fox the other day say: “If BO picks Hillary as his VP, he had better hire a food tester.” Yes indeed. The man actually said that. The reason he said that is because the RW FEAR Hillary. They know they can’t beather and even if she was just the VP, the GOP would be screwed and they know it.

    If anything happened to him, like a hang nail, Hillary would be blamed.

    I don’t want her to be VP. He’ll just drag her down, ruin her reputation just by being connected to his campaign and she’s TOO GOOD to be his VP. He NEEDS HER to win. Why should she help him? He dug this hole, now he can dig himself out of it! She owes him NOTHING and after all, she is a RACIST, according to him. Why would he want a racist for his VP, right?

    I also think BO would be making a HUGE mistake if he offered VP to another woman. That would be an insult to all women everywhere. Not just any woman can replace Hillary. If I were him, I wouldn’t go there.

    Yeah, he’s in a pickle and I am going to enjoy watching how this all plays out. He’s screwed no matter what he does.

    As I see it, Hillary’s revenge on the Party and on BO would be to turn down being his VP. If she did that, they would know they’re going down in flames in November. 🙂

    I’m still hoping his campaign implodes before August though, so we won’t have to worry about who HIS VP will be, but we will get to brainstorm on who Hillary’s VP should be. 😉

  307. Her concession speech was all about progressive values. It was a warning shot across the bow of neo-liberalism, which is all about compromise and backpeddling and watering down. She said basically this is what I stand for, and I will fight for these things. If neo-liberals want her to join Obama (and I hope she refuses because I can’t stand these people, including Obama) , they’ll have to accept her for who she is, an FDR democrat and RFK stalwart.

  308. Wow, 307 responses. Guess this post hit a nerve.

    Personally, I don’t think Obama wants Hillary on the ticket and I don’t think Hillary wants to be on the ticket. I DO think that they both want something out of this horsetrade. Obama wants her supporters and power w/out her on the ticket. Hillary wants Obama to NOT offer the VP slot, so she can wait out the end of this primary season w/out the title of spoiler. (Like it’s really her job to make sure he makes it to November, dayum.) Should he have a huge gaffe, she waits ready in the wings to carry the democratic party to a win in November. That’s my 2 cents.

  309. Well — I tried to read through all the posts here but didn’t have the patience so if I’m repeating a suggestion, my apologies.

    Barry is having a really hard time here, it’s true. But if he wants to really cinch the election he should have MOMO, his wife and DAP compatriot as his VP. She has at least as much experience. She’s been a Law-yer and been on the boards of companies. She knows how to take a bribe as well as anyone he could choose. She tells it like it is, right? She will know how to keep her man in line, too, right?

    They don’t need us. Isn’t that the truth? That’s what they’ve told us. So let’s just believe them and not bother with voting, ’cause they’ll win without us, right?

  310. LIsa,

    I like the ways ya thinks. You know that MoMo won’t get it but wouldn’t it be funny if they were that dumb to try? How about Deval Patrick? Being a MA resident, I’d be all for that. It would put Tim Cahill (mayor of Springfield? or is it Worcester?) as governor of MA. He has light years more experience than Patrick . Patrick would be an anchor around Obama’s neck.
    Wouldn’t that be a hoot and a holla – you’d get “yes, we can” in stereo. They might consider it because they’d get an Axelrod bulk discount. I know, it won’t happen.

    Ah, so many funny scenarios, so little time to be irreverant.

  311. MJ,

    So, I guess you’re one of those paid Obamabots they’ve been talking about, huh? Really, folks like you only hurt your candidates chances even more than they already are. Your best bet would be to leave her quietly, and go back to that echo chamber that is the ObamaNation where you can circle-jerk one another when you want, where you want, and for ever how long you want.

    No, but really, though, get the hell out of here. Scat, and do it it quickly.

  312. I don’t think he’ll ask and if he did Hillary should say “shove it1” What the Obamabots don’t understand is that it’s not about throwing Hillary the sop of the vice presidency,although they just can’t get their heads around the idea. One Obama friend ran through all of the arguments with me recently–don’t you care that a McCain presidency will mean the end of Roe vs. Wade? No. What about the environment–McCain will set us back years in addressing important environmental issues? So what? What about gay rights–McCain is for enshrining bigotry into law. Oh well. What about corporate giveaways–McCain will continue the Bush policy of favoring corporate interests over the common good? That’s probably true. Finally my friend started to get his mind around the fact that we’re not going to vote on the issues. It’s about our candidate having the nomination taken from her and there’s only one way to fix that.

  313. I don’t care if he asks, or if she accepts. Unity is gone for me.

    And he didn’t do it– Barack Obama is an able candidate. He’s witty, wiley, and seemingly genuine. I’ve always been a big fan of oratory, and it doesn’t get much better than Obama–the DNC ruined any chance of unity with that boneheaded 50% Compromise.

    Sorry folks, but the day that this thirtysomething’s “Democratic” party disenfranchises hundreds of thousands of its primary voters is the day I’m out.

    And if anyone who really matters should happen to see this, I could of voted for either of these candidates.

  314. Voteboth.com sent me an email petition today. A Hillary supporter put up the website and is pushing to have Hillary as Obama’s VP. The site says Hillary will be, or is considering the idea, and lists her staunch team supporters who favor the idea. Even Gov. Ed Rendell.

    I will never vote for Obama even if Hillary is the VP. I’m voting for McCain as a Hillary supporter for McCain.

    Off topic, Obama supporters are obnoxious. There are real whackos out there of all ages. I’m a life-time Democrat and voted Democratic since 1972. And now I’m being called a traitor to the party, a Dixiecrat, and worse. Give me a break.

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