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So much for reaching out to us ASAP

After working hard all morning accepting the support that Clinton gave him, after all of the heavy lifting he did last week by accepting the gifts that the RBC gave him, Barry went golfing:

The Obama camp just issued the following statement on Hillary Clinton’s endorsement.

“Obviously, I am thrilled and honored to have Senator Clinton’s support. But more than that, I honor her today for the valiant and historic campaign she has run. She shattered barriers on behalf of my daughters and women everywhere, who now know that there are no limits to their dreams. And she inspired millions with her strength, courage and unyielding commitment to the cause of working Americans. Our party and our country are stronger because of the work she has done throughout her life, and I’m a better candidate for having had the privilege of competing with her in this campaign. No one knows better than Senator Clinton how desperately America and the American people need change, and I know she will continue to be in the forefront of that battle this fall and for years to come,” said U.S. Senator Barack Obama.

The Obama camp won’t say whether or not the presumptive Democratic nominee watched Clinton’s speech or not, but the candidate was seen leaving his house earlier today with golf clubs.

Way to go, Barry. May you bogey every hole.

154 Responses

  1. He is a scumbag. Sorry, but he is.

  2. What a #%^&*#QQ jerk.

    I really do despise him.

  3. What? Obama is arrogant AND a fool?

    Huh, who would’ve guessed…

  4. He isn’t fit to hold her mashie niblick

  5. Just



    I spit on your golf clubs, and I PUMA you!

  6. Knowing Barry he will cheat on his score and will take mulligan on every hole.

  7. “now, watch this drive!”

    he sure reminds me of Bush…

  8. We need the “You’re so vain” song dedicated to both him and to the Democratic Party. Wonder if we could get Carly to do a benefit for PUMA:

  9. But, yeah, I’m supposed to vote for this guy.

    Forget it. He’s just too damned inexperienced. He doesn’t even know what political corectness looks like. It most certainly doesn’t look golfing while your closest, and superior, opponent endorses you.

  10. The word “entitlement” comes to mind. Interestingly is what his church and Obama have used against Hillary. A psychologist would call that projection.

  11. If there is one word that describes Obama, I think it’s “audacity” – not “change.”

    PUMA pride, all the way!

  12. Darn!

    And I thought for sure he’d be windsurfing!

    They never learn.

  13. “Watch this drive” is exactly what I was reminded of, too!

  14. Wow, they wouldn’t even say whether he actually watched the speech! Which, I guess, means he didn’t… As gracious as ever.

  15. What a pompous, condescending ass.

  16. Stay classy Barry.

    The golfing reference reminded me of the scene in Fahrenheit 911 when Bush was on the golf course and made some serious comment about terrorism or something and then told the press “now watch this shot”. The similarities between Bush and Obama is just mind boggling.

  17. Democrats always wanted to be just like the Republicans, now we even have our own Bush.


  18. There were warning sings about Bush, too.

    What gets me is that I’m giving up my current career path to work in the nonprofit sector and I fear having a job if Obama is the nominee. He’s purging delegates (or tried) now and trying to consolidate every dollar to go through him now, imagine what life will be like with him as president?

  19. Honestly, you can’t make this stuff up.

  20. LOL at this:

    May you bogey every hole.

    Why are you describing my golf game to the whole public?

  21. heh, the only thing he’s missing is a line like w’s
    “we’re the haves and the have mores”

  22. well, I’ll raise ya 2 bogeys
    may he triple bogey every hole
    (it would still be better than his bowling score – lol)

  23. I guess he didn’t need to listen to her speech because he’d already revised it during his little visit at Feinstein’s house!

  24. […] off, Obama From Riverdaughter: The Obama camp just issued the following statement on Hillary Clinton’s endorsement. […]

  25. The sleeping giant, the right wing monster, is about to awaken from its slumber. The Dems had a great and brave woman warrior ready to do battle. But instead they’ve chosen the charming male apprentice, with virtually no experience in battle to take back the White House. Go figure.

  26. He is such a smug asshole I heard they thought it went golfing! Here she has to shallow her pride and praise that piece of work and he is out golfing,I wonder if he golfs likes he bowls? If Hillary can not some how take this back I hope to god McCain wipes the floor with him and I for one will be pushing that to happen.

  27. Violet .. Excellent , excellent .. Thank YOU for writing it ..


  28. And so it goes. Boy are they blind that they do not understand that many people are justifiably angry. They don’t seem to be able to connect the fact that we are people with feelings and not just ‘voters’ that they can convert.

    Obama is all those things said up thread: pompus, condescending, arrogant and self-centered. The tantrums must be amazing when he doesn’t get his way. I wonder when the republicans really gear up the political smear machines, if he will ever loose control in public? Do you think anyone will call him ‘shrill’?

  29. I can’t believe there is someone who makes me string together more curse words than dubya… I did not think it was possible to dislike someone more than him!

  30. “She shattered barriers on behalf of my daughters and women everywhere, who now know that there are no limits to their dreams.”

    uh, excuse me? Tell me what barriers were shattered? BO’s ‘daughters and women everywhere’ now know for sure that the boyz once again kept their glass ceiling INTACT by preventing the most qualified candidate from winning. I’m heartily sick of this meme.

    My only hope is that Barry will implode before August and there will be a mad rush of superD’s to Hillary, correcting the insane course they’ve chosen for the party and us.

    Lacking this scenario, I will cease to be a democrat and withhold my vote for the first time in 40 years.

  31. So like W!
    His mishun is accomplished – now it’s time to take that fall that the 2 parties agreed on. (his volunteers used to say: “”We give them two forms – one to change their registration now for the primary and one so they can switch back later,”BO volunteer revealing the true goals of the campaign

  32. I’ll be off golfing on November 4 after voting for McCain.

  33. The black Bush–only worse because BO’s disguised as a patriot, something he is not.

  34. I heard fox say that the reason that Hillary suspended rather than the other was due to the fact that if she had ‘done’ the other – .. she would no longer be able to raise funds to pay off her debt .. is this true ?

    If so . I promise I will hit my neighborhood – mostly repubs – but they liked Hillary and some wanted to vote for her honestly , because they knew She was the best candidate for the country .. I’m maxed out now and now I am conflicted about Emily’s List .. so

    guess it’s the neighborhood . ..

  35. Joe, don’t forget to “brush off” your shoulders, upon exiting the voting booth.

  36. actually, for once I won’t bash Obama on this. it was Hillary’s day and he let her have it, even if his statement was still just all about him.

  37. “In the interest of full disclosure” – Obama says he will be ending up his “2nd term as President” in 2016. OMG. Arrogant much?

    Look how hyper he looks in this video. His part starts about a minute in.

  38. The next time B.O. is giving a major speech (e.g., announcing his VP), Hillary should be sure to make it known that she’s getting her HAIR DONE, having a manicure, and maybe doing a little shopping…and have spokespeople announce that no one knows if she’s watching his speech.

  39. Oh, hatshepsut1988, you don’t really think she can get away with THAT do you? I’m guessing she’s supposed to spend the rest of the year sitting on a pillow at his feet during every speech.

  40. Lyrics for Obama with “you will not be elected” substituted into the song–

    Spoon, The Underdog

    Picture yourself in the living room
    your pipe and slippers set out for you
    I know you think that it ain’t too far

    But I hear the call of a lifetime ring
    felt the need to get up for it
    oh you cut out the middleman
    get free from the middleman

    You got no time for the messenger,
    got no regard for the thing that you don’t understand,
    you got no fear of the underdog,
    that’s why you will not be elected!

    I want to forget how conviction fits
    but can I get out from under it?
    Can I gut it out of me?
    It can’t all be wedding cake
    It can’t all be boiled away
    I try but I can’t let go of it
    Can’t let go of it,

    Cause you don’t talk to the water boy
    and there’s so much you could learn but you don’t want to know,
    You will not back up an inch ever,
    that’s why you will not be elected,

    The thing that I tell you now
    It may not go over well
    And it may not be photo-op
    in the way that I spell it out

    But you won’t hear from the messenger,
    don’t wanna know bout something that you don’t understand,
    You got no fear of the underdog,
    that’s why you will not be elected!

  41. Chins up, guys! My understanding is that The Great Hillary “suspended” her campaign. She did not formally end it. And my understanding is that The Great Hillary did not release her delegates. That’s our girl.
    Nobama. Not now, not ever.

  42. Not sure if this has been brought up yet, but you can now unsubscribe from the DNC mailing lists. I just did and it feels great. Almost better than getting my signed and stamped declaration of degree completion. Seriously. One load off my back followed by another.

  43. BTW, you can raise money for your campaign without being an official candidate anymore. Keeping the delegates ensures a voice at the convention.

  44. gqmartinez – Great to see you and others here from Taylor’s site!

    Re: BO going golfing today during Hillary’s speech – honestly, the man has no class whatsoever. It will feel so good to NOT vote for him come fall….

  45. Ha … earlier, CNN’s political ticker had a post about Obama’s reaction to the speech and mentioned that he was seen leaving (I think it said an hour – or shortly) before Clinton’s speech with his golf clubs. But I just returned to that same post and the mention of his golf clubs is GONE and instead replaced with what amounts to an advertisement for donating to his campaign!!!

    CNN’s political ticker post:

    I wish I had taken a screenshot of the post before it had been edited. Apparently the Thought Police got to it before I could!

  46. At TL there is this new crop as asshat Obama supporters. Correction, they’re Clinton haters going around spreading the most insane shit: misogyny is apparently a joke of a cop card (Didn’t happen!) and they see racism everywhere.

    @GQM: I tried unsubscribing from the DNC mailing lists and I still get their shit asking me for money. They still call me for crying out loud. How many times can a man curse them out before they get it? Hell, I even cursed them out in Spanish.

  47. Just got home.. I took a couple pix, they’re on “the lady speaks” thread. Bad quality I’m afraid, I only have a phone camera, but I got a far away shot of Bill, Chelsea, and Hillary on stage at the end.

  48. Damn it! I meant to write: “…new crop of asshat Obama supporters.” and “….misogyny is apparently a joke of a cop out…”


  49. “actually, for once I won’t bash Obama on this. it was Hillary’s day and he let her have it, even if his statement was still just all about him.”

    Well, that’s more than she afforded him on the night when he clinched the nomination. That very night on which she held HER OWN victory speech replete with a “please welcome the next president…” introduction, and managed to get through the entire speech without so much as even acknowledging his victory.

  50. Davidson,

    I wonder how Jerelyn will deal with them? Will she allow Hillary hate? I hope not. I was over there when she posted her “unity” message. I couldn’t believe all the commenters who said they were leaving. Maybe she isn’t going to need that extra server after all.

  51. I still hope Hillary makes her case at the convention. Obama is not the candidate this country needs, and I won’t support him. Hopefully the Dem party comes to the realization that many of us won’t support him, or the party that helped cheat the country from the candidate that had the real answers to the problems we face, by the time we get to the convention.

    The fixing of an election process is something we can not accept, and does not speak well of what our democracy is supposed to stand for. The cultist Obama supporters may have no problem with this, but if it had been Hillary’s campaign that was guilty of accepting the tactics the media, DNC, the supporters, and the party in general have used to get the nomination, I wouldn’t accept it. I feel compelled now to vote for McCain, and will not lose sight of what happened during the campaign and the high-jacking of our election process.

  52. Some thoughts:
    Perhaps BO is golfing as part of his strategy to
    reach out to upscale white men. I think his public,
    demeaning, sexist remarks about Hillary (degrading all
    women) were also meant to reach out to them,
    and to all men. He knows well how sexist many men
    are, and he exploited it (this frightens me
    as I know it does many women)
    For what it is worth,
    McCain is selling golf stuff on his website. . .The golfing
    demographic. . .who are they?
    They must be the swing voters.

  53. I just got an email from Howie Dean titled Unity. Here’s my response to him:

    Governor Dean,

    You just sent me an email wherein you said, “But no matter who you supported, you’re part of a bigger family — one that shares the same hopes, values, and dreams.”

    You are WRONG. The Democratic Party no longer shares the same hopes, values, and dreams as I do. You and your gang (including Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, and Donna Brazile) destroyed the Democratic Party I have supported for 35 years. When you all stood silently by and allowed the despicable sexism and misogyny by the media and the Obama campaign; when you allowed racist attacks against the Clintons and their supporters; when you tried to force Senator Clinton out of the race; when you disenfranchised the voters of Michigan and Florida; when you stole Michigan votes from Senator Clinton and gave them to her opponent; when you stole Michigan delegates from uncommitted status and gave them to Senator Clinton’s opponent; when you threw your support behind a candidate with the least experience and qualifications of any candidate I have ever seen (including the current President); when you did all these things, you destroyed the Democratic Party and left me behind.

    I will not unite behind your chosen candidate. I will not be changing my mind between now and November. I’m not caught up in the emotions of the moment. I am of sound mind. I say this not in anger or sadness that Senator Clinton is not the presumptive Democratic nominee, but with clear and conscious awareness: I WILL NOT VOTE FOR BARACK OBAMA IN NOVEMBER.



  54. I hate to say it but Jeralyn and BTD sometimes have a tin ear when it comes to their audience. If they wanted to evolve into supporting Obama, why not just let the users come to terms with it at their own pace? Switching so abruptly is jarring to the nervous system, especially after really LOATHING the guy for so long. It feels forced and artificial and kinda robotic.

  55. McCain isn’t actually Irish is he?

  56. BostonBoomer, I doubt that Jeralyn will allow Hillay hate. I think the Obama trolls will not be very happy about the staying on topic rules and they will get bored when the Hillary supporters who are still resisting Obama aren’t around to play with them anymore. In an update to her post on endorsing Obama, she pretty much made it clear that she won’t be paying that much attention to the GE election except as it relates to issues.

  57. The crowd at the speech was not very thrilled about Obama but nobody did or said anything rude.. People did clap where I was (upstairs) politely at mentions of him. But not near as heartily as they did at other moments. A lot of us looked around at each other like.. sure.. we know he isn’t going to do anything about health care.

    I totally started crying near the end. I think it was when I saw these two young girls (probably 10 or so) on the top of the set of bleacher seats behind the stage, dancing like crazy and waving Hillary signs. 😦

  58. Obama’s reaction is certainly in keeping with his established attitude.

    I’m glad she only suspended her campaign and did not concede the nomination.

  59. Maria Garcia,

    That’s good that Jerelyn isn’t going to have a full court press for Obama. I agree with RD that her post was pretty insensitive. I imagine BTD will still post on the election, but he will probably still call them as he sees them.

  60. Riverdaughter: You can’t loathe someone then turn around and support them.

    If you do, one of your emotions was insincere, either the loathing or the supporting.

    And assimilating to the borg isn’t Democracy.

  61. BTW: I was agreeing with you even though the post didn’t sound that way.

  62. I posted a comment a little earlier about CNN removing that reference to Obama golfing shortly before Clinton’s speech. Google News still has a cached summary for it on the search results page if you do a search for “obama clinton speech golf.” I’ve taken a screen shot of Google News, viewable here:


    CNN has also updated that post for the second time, now saying that he’d watched the speech online. Sounds like Obama’s campaign is writing CNN’s content!

  63. Over 15,000 Hillary supporters and growing massive today, 1.2 million visitors to the site. launched on the 31 in 6 days National Organization Of Hillary Supporters For McCain has exploded Join in folks we have the power to get Hillary elected if we stand in UNITY and show the party bosses we are not just all talk. make these number rise and our voices heard

  64. Fred.. I’m not for McCain, I’m against Obama, but more than that.. I couldn’t spend time on a site that’s propping up those “whitey tape” unproven rumors, I don’t think that is helpful to us or to Hillary or to real Democrats, at all.

  65. You know — if they took his resume and her resume and gave it to 1000 people – with no names, no gender, no skin color who do you think those 1000 people would hire?

  66. I thought I would never do this, but I just listened to John McCain’s strategy update on his web site. All facts and figures and charts and it is a very, very sad tale for Obama.

    Go there and listen, its about 15 minutes long. Pay particular attention to his very accurate take on western Pennsylvania and eastern Ohio and also note the fundraising numbers toward the end…particularly Obama’s burn rate. Also, you’ll note that the DNC’s fundraising is pathetic, truly pathetic.

  67. My personal feeling, although I have no proof, is that Jeralyn posted that because she had been saying all week that she wasn’t going to endorse Obama until Hillary was out of the race and that Hillary wasn’t out of the race until Hillary said so. In a way, given all her previous statements, it was understandable and was probably a way to keep all the trolls who would have swarmed down on Talk Left demanding that she “keep her word.” So I’m fine with what she did. I’m just now particularly inclined to argue with trolls all day so I plan to sit back and let them try to overrun TalkLeft. They will lose interest.

    And you’re right about BTD, there’s no way he will stop criticizing anybody that he thinks deserves criticism.

  68. No matter how hard you look for it, they still don’t get it. They are treating those of us repulsed by what has happened as a bunch of weeping fools who are just emotionally overwrought that our candidate did not come in first. How many times do we have to tell them that the main reason is that they have insulted us by choosing an inexperienced, unqualified divisive candidate before one who offered the real deal? Their interpretation of our motives and instincts is being reduced to whiners who did not get their way. When will the truth sink in?

  69. Honestly, if you took Obama’s resume and John McCain’s resume, who would you hire?

    Obama is wholly unqualified to be president. And it’s completely his enabler’s and proppers who are to blame if he loses.

  70. I know this is OT, but omigod that kid who is singing New York, New York at the Belmont Stakes is a 40 year old in a 9 year olds body.

  71. Fred:

    The site you refer to is called ‘Ex-Hillary Clinton Supporters for John McCain’. I, for one, will NOT sign up unless the site name is changed to ‘Hillary Clinton Supporters for Joh McCain’. I STILL support Hillary and will continue to do so. . . it’s only if Hillary is NOT chosen at the August Dem. convention that I may vote for McCain (I say ‘may’ because if Hillary decides to go third-party I will follow her.) BOTTOM LINE: I will NOT sign up and caution other Hillary supporters to quit and re-join the site ONLY after the name is changed. THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  72. Teresa – as I am the one who started the “hire” thing on Talkleft – let me say that I dont think I would hire McCain over Obama unless I cared more about my cash then our environment and the animals of this earth. McCain is against any legisltion that raises costs for businesses and that includes all the environmental laws that Bushie got rid of. So I hear your pain and share it, but arent our rivers and animal life important? Not to mention people who live near pollutants.

    Just a thought – I am trying to find a way I can hire Obama without feeling like i gave in to threats.

  73. Katiebird: Yes, she’ll get away with it (let it be announced that she’s having her hair done during B.O.’s next speech) and ought toensure that every time she travels to give the supportive speeches she’s expected to give for him that she pencils in adequate time, before and after, for her favorite unserious pastimes, and/or luxurious pampering at spas, or afternoons selecting from color swatches for new upholstery.

    Further, B.O. ought to be reminded, now especially that droughts are on the rise, that manicuring golf courses wastes untold amounts of water, and that water is sometimes, immorally and wastefully, redirected from public use for the sake of lush golf ranges!

  74. Maria garcia – I read Talkleft all the time but dont post there and I agree with you – I think Obama supporters think Jeralyn is going to now post reams of Obama love and i dont see that happening though she will continue to be as fair as she can.

    It sucks, but I can’t see mysekf voting for McCain – I would rather stay home and wash my hair.

  75. “for her favorite unserious pastimes, and/or luxurious pampering at spas, or afternoons selecting from color swatches for new upholstery.

    Doesnt sound like you know her very well.

  76. The liberal blogs are going to be spending the next few months reinforcing Obama. It will be a lovefest of all proportions out there. By November, if he lasts that long, we will all be gagging on the hype.

    The only solution for me is to get back to my reading, walking, and getting out more because it will be as equally difficult to defend McCain as it will to defend Obama. Just taking a look at the other blogs just now the vitriol against Hillary is still in force. At least her suspension will silence the need to bash her every time she opens her mouth. As much as I love and respect Hillary, it is impossible to support Obama.

  77. Pat,

    I think the media will keep bashing Hillary. When Obama falters it will be her fault because she didn’t concede after Iowa. She damaged him. Whaaaaaaaaa! I don’t think it will stop. I can’t turn the TV back on anyway, because I can’t stand to see or hear Obama. When I do, I literally feel sick.

  78. I refuse to turn on the tv for the very same reasons. But the media’s attention will be riveted on him and McCain starting Monday. It is simply too painful to watch.

    Larry Johnson is still insisting on the video. As much as I would love to see it surface, waiting until October isn’t reason enough. If it is that incinidary then release it now.

  79. a side note, which would have been more enjoyable had the primary results differed…

    You remember how gleeful Obama supporters were at the results of the Kentucky Derby. Both candidates made lighthearted references to the race. He favored Big Brown and Hillary said to bet on the filly, Eight Belles.
    Big Brown won and Eight Belles had to be put down.
    (oh, the symbolism!)
    Well, in the Belmont Stakes today, Big Brown did not come through the win which would’ve earned him the Triple Crown.
    Couldn’t close the deal, you might say.

    I’m going to take a mental break from politics for awhile. Obama has 5 months to win my vote. At this point the odds don’t look too good.

  80. I cringe at Obama too and it worries me – like I have become unhinged by the media. How do we know they havent done this on purpose to divide us so a thoroughly discredit ed bunch of a-holes stay in office?

    Wasnt it GE that got sued for mega pollution and had to clean out some river? Well Bush made sure to get rid of all those laws and you can be sure McCain wouldnt bring them back. I dont know but couldnt there be a connection?

    again, just throwing it out there…

  81. the young judith:

    obama is wrong for america; if he’s the dem. nom. vote mccain to ensure that he doesn’t win.

  82. Pragmatist – I cant vote Republican – they suck. Worst I could do is stay home a watch tv.

  83. every time I think of McCain I think of polar bears drowning. No kidding.

  84. Sorry B.O., you and you’re campaign smeared Hillary Clinton as a serial liar and racist – I won’t forget.

  85. He’s an asshole.

    He makes it easy for me to watch in amusement as the GOP launches its withering assaults against him as they pound away at his ignorance and inexperience.

    He makes it easy for me to ignore his whining about racism because he’s going to reap what he has sown.

    He makes it easy for me to remain when his injudicious wife is pilloried for her crassness.

    He makes it easy for me to vote for McCain.

  86. Sonya: I asked myself, if I were Republican, would I have voted for Bush? The answer is no!

    Obama is the left’s version of Bush. I wouldn’t vote for him even if I didn’t resent the crap out of him.

  87. yikes sonya,

  88. Young Judith, I’m just throwing this out there, but what if you’re an Obama supporter?

    Just saying.

  89. Oh and every time I think of Obama, I think of Democracy drowning.

    No kidding.

  90. marisa – i was on this board before you or just about anybody ekse on here and Riverdaughter knows I am not an Obama supporter.

    I dont get the need to attack me simply becuase I cant vote for a Republican. That used to be a good thing for a dem to say.

  91. The Young Judith: I never saw the ‘hire’ thing on TL. I don’t go there anymore as of today. However, I know that I’ve lived through Republican presidents and can live through one more. I am nothing but patient in my old age.

    The Democrats have become an corrupt organization and they have to be STOPPED before they become exactly like Republicans.

    Any vote I make this November will be in the interest of MAKING THEM STOP with their corruption. And I firmly believe that electing a corrupt Chicago politician to the White House is no way to make the corruption stop.

    As long as we have a decent Congress (as in Pelosi/Reid have GOT TO GO from leadership) we can weather a McCain storm.

    I don’t fall for scare tactics anymore.

  92. Hey marisa – by the way, are you a Republican? i never saw you on here before.

    just askin’ 🙂

  93. Teresa,

    Yes, Obama is absolutely the left version of Bush. He is unfit to even be considered for the office of president.

  94. Teresa. Exactly.

    As I told my partner, we will live through McCain, but the ramifications of voting for Obama, on the other hand, include legitimating a corrupt process and that dreadful legacy will endure for years and years and years.

    Four years of a Republican OR authorizing a brokered election.

    The choice is simple.

  95. Donna Brazile is at the heart of the corruption of the DNC. Her victim mentality has provided cover for the greedy, petty and spineless elites to push forward a puppet like Obama.

  96. Thanks for helping me marissa – I will never vote for McCain now.

  97. In the past, even questioning whether or not I am a Republican would have constituted slander in my world. Oh and since it’s written, also libel.

    But such an accusation doesn’t mean so much now.

    The Democratic “elite” have made a mockery of the Party with its injustice, and unfairness.

    You can call me a Republican. You can call me anything you want, but please don’t ever link me with the Democratic Party.

  98. maridsa – okay – that is fine. I dont mind either way – you can be whatever you want and say what you want – you attacked me for expressing my opinion and that I DO mind.

  99. The Young Judith: Nobody attacked you. People disagree with you. That’s not the same as attacking.

  100. Teresa….nice to see you.

  101. young judith–the point is to deliberately derogate his importance as B.O. does Hillary, as in announcing “going golfing” during her speech.

    sonya–yeah it will be satisfying to watch him get pounded, and when he does, we need someone to remind him (in maniacal tones) how unfairly B.O. and company dished it out against Hillary “without batting an eye!*……So now indeed, his chickies are comin’ home to roost!

    *Incidentially, the expression is “batting an eyelash”.

  102. Hi Teresa – I have read your posts on TL. I started the “hire” thing and then saw Clinton say it. i like to think she or her people read my reasonable words. 🙂

    I underastand your comments. I am fairly young and am well-off so me and mine wouldnt hurt personally under the GOP. Our taxes went down quite a bit actually in the last few years.

    I am sorry you think my comments about my concern for wildlife is some kind of threat or blackmail. I dont really try to control other people or attack them if they dont agree with me – you will do what you like. . I am merely sharing my point of view – if the GOP stays in power I am concerned about environmental issues.

  103. I just watched the strategy briefing on McCain’s site.

    McCain can take California. This state is not as liberal as a lot of people think.

  104. and teresa – yes, I was attacked on another thread. Not by you.

  105. I dont know what derogate means, sorry.

  106. oops teresa – actually it was this thread.

  107. young judith- I don’t care if you are a troll or not, but can we stop talking about. you?

  108. of course, honora. I was here way before you so I am not a troll and Riverdaughter knows it. But if it feels good to say so be my guest. 🙂

  109. now laurel loks like a troll. 🙂

  110. Attention Sweeties — this place isn’t a debate forum. It’s a refuge from people like you.

  111. Tarheel – No, they contraction-avoiders are from KAOS (Get Smart.)

    It is such a pleasure to read the thoughtful, well reasoned comments here. I feel like I am reading the Federalist Papers.

    GO PUMA.

  112. katiebird….kick her ass out please…

  113. watching as Laurel moves on to hell…

  114. Laurel:

    I don’t care how many of you trolls say otherwise, shit stinks.

    You can make your own “reality” but you can’t alter ours.

  115. Laurel:

    I’m not wearing any panties.

  116. What would George do? Oh yeah. He went golfing instead of taking care of business too…

    Didn’t we get enough of that over the last 8 years?

  117. Obama sounds more like Bush every day. He’s neither liberal or progressive. He’s conservative, maybe even ultra conservative. Don’t look now, but people are going to notice before the election.

  118. Laurel….thanks for reinforcing what we have said for a very long time about obamatrolls…you did, however, forget the ever popular “I know you are, but what am I”.
    Please come back when you grow up and actually have something substantive to say…you know like an actual reason that someone should vote for the supposed nominee. Good luck with that…ought to keep you busy til November.

  119. Now I have an earworm of “Never can say goodbye.”

  120. When looking for a site to add to feeds, that would have like minded individuals, found mention of this site from an article on PUMA. Was a regular reader and infrequent poster at TL. Will not be posting there, but may continue to read if the focus is on jurisprudence.

    P.S. Like the expression of ideas without the vitriolic
    name calling that some sites have devolved to.

  121. I can’t wait for his concession speech in November. I will be thinking Karma is a bitch. Congrats to McCain, you just won the lottery to the White House thanks to the hopelessly blind Democratic elites.

  122. Oops, when I read this thread offline there was not the back and forth currently on display. Composed and posted, and found the current disagreement. Was not trying to be ironic and/or flippant when stated this site was a refuge from name calling. Recognize several posters from other forums/blogs and appreciate their insight Also have to acknowledge the main posters (FP’s?).
    Look forward to reading their musings and views.

  123. Laurel will be back. They always come back thinking they have something we want to hear.

    If they don’t need us why do they bother even posting? I’ve notice an increase number of those “you know whos” trying to reason with us. I wish they really believed their rhetoric and leave us alone and quit trying to influence our vote.

    I think they believe we are as silly minded as they are and blindly follow Clinton as they blindly follow Obama.

    Plus, they need the money for their pampers.

  124. young judith—says she doesn’t know the meaning of “derogate” . Note as well her utter diffidence in finding out! So minimal an intellectual curiousity evidences some …maybe…Obama-itis?

  125. that isnt very nice of you. You could have offered to explain ya know. 🙂 I only earned close to perfect scores on my english gre’s but hey.

  126. and I dont think you mean diffidence either.

  127. Know should not do this but, the meaning of derogate only takes two mouse clicks to find online. I am on dial-up and it took only a few seconds (yes, I knew the meaning just wanted to validate the response time). Anyway, always interesting to see discussions about proper word usage and the connotations and denotations.
    As once stated; if the thought is communicated spelling and verbiage are irrelevant.

  128. Oh I got the subtext – dont worrry about it. I know when people want to be mean. i dont need a dictionary. 🙂

  129. “for his daughters and women everywhere”….I guess he doesn’t connect that women’s rights are human rights and that includes men too. And I don’t really think the lesson from this campaign is that there are no limits on the dreams of women – in fact, just the opposite. Funny, I’m sure Obama would say there is much work to do on civil rights, yet he can’t say the same about women’s opportunity.

    I’m expecting him to say a “show his love for American women” sort of comment (remember Bush’s awful comment on gynocologists…)

    You know, when clinton spoke about racial civil rights, she included herself in the hapiness of moving humanity forward.

  130. It rained in Chicago. Just because “somebody spotted him leaving his house with golf clubs” does not mean he went to play golf. And if he did, there is enough time in the day to watch her speech and play golf — if it had not rained. In fact, it stormed – severely. In fact, there were Tornado Warnings all day with a few touch downs. Hillary’s speech was excellent. Very adult. Very sensible. So were most of the supporters in the audience. Grown-up enough to follow her lead and do what is best for the country – and for the future generations. Then there are the selfish feminists who say “screw the future generation”. They deserve John McCain.

  131. it’s weird, but when you nominate bush’s twin brother, a man without even the most minimal qualification for the job who’s corrupt besides, he’s going to lose. in order to win, you need to nominate a candidate who can win, not nominate a loser and employ guilt tripping and blackmail, as if anyone else is obligated to clean up after your mistakes.. But nominating a hopeless stooge and disenfranchising two states in the process, making a mockery of everything democrats are supposed to stand for, then turning around and whining about selfishness? there’s irony there. What’s best for the country is to not let Obama or his advocates and supporters anywhere near the levers of power–we’ve suffered through 7 years of this nonsense already and have learned full well that a man with no principles, no scruples, a Messsianic complex and a bucnh of blindly worshipping supporters who’ll support anything he proposes no matter how unconscionable, isn’t exactly a gift to future generations. if we like them, that is.

  132. Hate to spoil your big angry dance, but he was not golfing while Hillary spoke. He watched her speech on the Internet and called her immediately after she finished to thank her.

    But hey, don’t let any silly old facts get in the way of your self-destructive hatefest. Carry on.

  133. now steve, sarcasm is not very nice. All you had to do was just share that information without the extra bits.

    But then that would wreck your snotfest which really was the point to your visit.

  134. Thanks, Steve, for that clarification. So his golf game was rained out? Well, we all have our disappointments in life, as Clinton could tell him. And so could we.

    See, what I don’t see in your clarification is why he needed his golf clubs with him to watch a videostream on a laptop computer. Maybe to hit it, even “shatter” it, if he didn’t like what he saw? Pls explain.

  135. Hey did you guys hear? Hillary is going to campaign her heart out for Barack Obama. If you think she was kidding you don’t know her well at all. When she says something, she fricking well means it -that’s why you voted for her, that’s why 18 million people voted for her. AND that’s why I will support her in the future. Good day to you all!

  136. How cute!

    The trolls are playing late-night hit and run.

  137. This comment by Pat Johnson says it all:

    “They are treating those of us repulsed by what has happened as a bunch of weeping fools who are just emotionally overwrought that our candidate did not come in first.”

    Women are being treated like we’re still living in the 19th century, still second class citizens who succumb to “vapors” and
    shouldn’t have expose our delicate “constitutions” to the stress of even thinking about politics because we become overwrought and hysterical and then must be shown the error in our opinions.

    All this politically correct placating “there, there, now” from the representatives of the Democratic party and the “presumptive nominee” is like snow in a blizzard – soon there’s so much of it the landscape is totally obliterated but underneath it all the sexism remains.

    And the coverage of Senator Clinton’s supposed “concession” speech proves that if she is a “good girl” and endorses Obama they will let her stay on the sidelines and watch the rest of “the game” with them. But for OUR sake, I hope she hasn’t been fooled by their “look at how far you’ve come” snow job because she wasn’t the first female candidate for president.

    Thirty-six years ago another strong, capable candidate named Shirley Chisholm stated “in spite of hopeless odds, . . . to demonstrate the sheer will and refusal to accept the status quo.” that she was a candidate for president. (I wonder if Obama even knows who she is.) Chisholm received 152 delegates and after 36 years we have finally put a female candidate over the top and saw the “enlightened” Democratic party have to steal her votes to keep her from winning. I hope that she also refuses to accept the status quo.

    Let them be the “sweeties” , I’m tired of waiting.

  138. What is your definition of troll? Anyone who doesn’t hate as you do? On what basis can you say he has no scruples? Perhaps because he sat on the board of one of the finest foundations in the nation (except by Fox’s standards) with a person who placed small bombs in empty buildings as protest against the Vietnam War when Barack Obama was 8 years old? Or he was friends with Rezko, who contributed to his campaign and that of Chicago’s Democratic and Republican candidates? Maybe he should have been advised by a crystal ball in 1992 that in 2005 Rezko would make up a phony business and try to get a loan on his legitimate business — that’s fraud. Maybe we should vet all of our friends and former friends right now in case they should do something wrong in the future, or in the past before we knew them. A Messianic Complex? What proof have you of that? And blindly worshipping followers? Just because you are not familiar with his policies and plans does not mean his supporters are as unaware. I think “blind” would best describe people who speak in headlines or talking points, and have no idea what they are saying or why they are saying it. Do some research. Learn to think for yourselves. It’s one thing to burn your bras in protest — but to proudly plan to put your country through 8more years of Bush policies just because you didn’t get your way? Please. I am a woman and you are giving us a bad name.

  139. Ah Beverly.

    So this is what we should say to friends?

    That Obama, “sat on the board of one of the finest foundations in the nation (except by Fox’s standards) with a person who placed small bombs in empty buildings as protest against the Vietnam War when Barack Obama was 8 years old?”

    Bizarre. I can’t do it. There isn’t enough strength in my whole body to hold my nose and say that.

  140. Maybe we should check if Barry Obama has a Pet Goat.
    And Beverley, YOU are giving all women a great name, by refusing to see the sexism and blaming us for seeing it. Unity Ponies not applicable for women, eh?

  141. Beverly,

    You surely don’t expect any of us to accept the bland arguments you have posted here. We’ve heard them all before, usually accompanied by the same judgment of our intelligence.

    I don’t know if you are female or not but I don’t think you know much about the history of the movement that gave us our Right to vote; or the history of the Quaker movement to free the slaves that kept the underground railroad moving. Perhaps you should do a little more research before criticizing the opinions of others.

    Many of us here were 8 years when the Civil Rights movement was started but that didn’t stop our being called racists by Obama’s supporters. If we can be held accountable for what adults were doing then 8 year old Obama can be held accountable also. And many here were a part of the Civil Rights movement and supported Rosa Parks (remember her?) along with Martin Luther King.

    And most of us grew up knowing that, like it or not, we would be judged by the company we kept. You would not excuse someone who attended a church for 20 years that was run by KKK members. You would not refuse to investigate someone who had helped sponsor legislation to ease restrictions and who had accepted money from the person helped by that legislation.

    I ALWAY familiarise myself with the plans and policies of candidates before giving them my vote because I learned how Germany became Nazi Germany in school – one of the scariest history lessons of modern times.

    I take my responsibility as a voter and as a guardian of Democracy very seriously which is why I am an independent and never vote blindly for “the party”. I know exactly what Obama says he plans to do and that is the reason I chose to vote for Hillary Clinton. Those who refuse to investigate Obama AFTER his 8th birthday and hold him accountable for his decisions are the ones giving “us” a bad name.

    Now, what proof do you have he wasn’t involved in any of the Wright, Rezko, Ayers scandals – his word?

  142. Carol:

    As a member of Trinity United Church for 24 years, I can assure you that the church is not run by KKK. There are none in our congregation. The United Church of Christ (look it up) is a 99% white congregation. Trinity is situated in a predominately Black community, however, there are whites, Hispanics, Asians and Native Americans in our congregation.

    FOX News purchased $8,000 worth of DVD’s from Trinity, and after going through them all for months, all they could come up with is a minute and thirty seconds worth of out-of-context soundbites. The 9/11 soundbite was based on a statement delivered by Ambassador Edward Peck, and Reverend Wright gave him credit for those remarks at the beginning and end of the soundbite — however, Fox snipped that part of it. The G.D. America soundbite was part of a sermon in which Rev. Wright spoke about the fact that government’s change but God doesn’t. He was ultimately saying that instead of looking to governments, and saying “GD America, etc.”, instead of looking to other countries or to men, we should look to God. Thousands of people who heard the entire sermon wrote to apologize for their hasty judgments. The sermon in which he said Hillary has never been called the “n-word” was in response to a Black politician who stated that Barack wasn’t black enough, and Hillary — because of her relationship with the Black community — was ‘blacker’ than Barack. Rev. Wright has too many white friends to be anti-white. He served his country voluntarily and is certainly not anti-American.

    You say Barack Obama should be held responsible for the actions that William Ayers committed when Barack was 8 years old? How? William Ayers is a distinguished professor at the University of Chicago, and is a consultant to school systems nationwide. He is neither a convicted felon nor a fugitive. Most of Dr. Ayers’ colleagues only became aware of his Weatherman activities after FOX news uncovered it. They know him in the present. The Woods Foundation – founded by a Jewish family in the early 40’s — has a 9-member board, and Barack Obama sat on that board from 1996 to 2001. It was not his responsibility to vet every person who sat on that board with him anymore than it is Hillary Clinton’s responsibility to vet every person who sat on the Wal-Mart or Whitewater board with her. Tony Rezko’s fraudulent activities had less to do with Barack Obama than Norman Hsu’s fraudulent fundraising activities had to do with Hillary Clinton. If Barack Obama is to be held accountable because he was a friend of Tony Rezko’s and Tony Rezko fraudenlently applied for loans for his Pizza restaurants, then should Hillary Clinton be held responsible for her friend and finance director who was convicted and imprisoned for “cooking the books” of her Senate campaign to eliminate funds received from Peter Paul. Should not the Clinton versus Peter Paul trial have been a campaign issue. Should she be held accountable for knowing Peter Paul who as a convicted felon at the time he held a $1.5 million fundraiser for her?

    I,too, take responsibilitiy as a voter very seriously – and I never vote blindly for a person just because she is a woman, because I don’t think remembering the struggle has anything to do with voting for the President who will best serve this country. Yes, I remember the struggle. I typed out Martin Luther King’s speeches. I helped get Chicago’s first Black mayor elected. But I am not voting for a candidate because she is a woman or because he is black. After 8 years of lies, I am voting for a candidate who has proven his honesty. After 8 years of polarization and diviseness I am voting for the candidate whose vision is one of inclusion, who brings together people from all walks of life, all colors, all economic groups, all genders. I am voting for the candidate who wants to erase the partisan lines that divide, and who does not engage in polarizing rhetoric that pits one group against another. Barack Obama has refused to help the media drag Senator Clinton’s name through the mud. Whenever he is confronted with an opportunity to comment on something she has said or done, he has always given her the benefit of the doubt. He has refused to engage in Rovian-style tactics of demonizing his Democratic opponent. He has always taken the high road. When it finally came out that the Canadian-NAFTA story leaking dishonest tactics to the Obama campaign was false, and was denied by the Canadian Embassy, and that it was actually the Clinton campaign that had contacted Michael Wilson and told him to take Clinton’s debate remarks with a grain of salt, Barack Obama never brought it up in the campaign trail (and Clinton continued with the debunked lie). I have chosen the candidate who showed his management abilities through the way he handled his campaign, his campaign finances, and the recruitment and retention of campaign staff. And no one has disagreed that it was the best run campaign in political history. His judgment on the war vote, the Kyle-Lieberman vote, the gas-tax hoiday pandering idea proves that he has the judgment to lead the country. He didn’t just talk about health care for all children in Illinois, he reached across the table to introduce the bill and get it passed and make it a reality.

    Now what proof do you have that there were any Wright, Rezko or Ayers scandals? Fox’s word?

  143. Beverly: I, too, was under the thrall of Obama back in the day and I, too, was laboring under the guilt of what I might be doing to “our country” if I didn’t vote, wrote in a name or voted for “the other side”. Then I remembered that we’re all in the same airplane that’s on fire, missing a couple engines and heading for a certain disaster. Then I came across this piece by Thomas Sowell (rather than give a bio, I’m recommending you search his name, there’s plenty out there on him).

    An Old Newness
    By Thomas Sowell
    April 29, 2008

    Many years ago, a great hitter named Paul Waner was nearing the end of his long career. He entered a ballgame with 2,999 hits — one hit away from the landmark total of 3,000, which so many hitters want to reach, but which relatively few actually do reach.

    Waner hit a ball that the fielder did not handle cleanly but the official scorer called it a hit, making it Waner’s 3,000th. Paul Waner then sent word to the official scorer that he did not want that questionable hit to be the one that put him over the top.

    The official scorer reversed himself and called it an error. Later Paul Waner got a clean hit for number 3,000.

    What reminded me of this is the great fervor that many seem to feel over the prospect of the first black President of the United States.

    No doubt it is only a matter of time before there is a black president, just as it was only a matter of time before Paul Waner got his 3,000th hit. The issue is whether we want to reach that landmark so badly that we are willing to overlook how questionably that landmark is reached.

    Paul Waner had too much pride to accept a scratch hit. Choosing a President of the United States is a lot more momentous than a baseball record. We the voters need to have far more concern about who we put in that office that holds the destiny of a nation and of generations yet unborn.

    There is no reason why someone as arrogant, foolishly clever and ultimately dangerous as Barack Obama should become president — especially not at a time when the threat of international terrorists with nuclear weapons looms over 300 million Americans.

    Many people seem to regard elections as occasions for venting emotions, like cheering for your favorite team or choosing a Homecoming Queen.

    The three leading candidates for their party’s nomination are being discussed in terms of their demographics — race, sex and age — as if that is what the job is about.

    One of the painful aspects of studying great catastrophes of the past is discovering how many times people were preoccupied with trivialities when they were teetering on the edge of doom. The demographics of the presidency are far less important than the momentous weight of responsibility that office carries.

    Just the power to nominate federal judges to trial courts and appellate courts across the country, including the Supreme Court, can have an enormous impact for decades to come. There is no point feeling outraged by things done by federal judges, if you vote on the basis of emotion for those who appoint them.

    Barack Obama has already indicated that he wants judges who make social policy instead of just applying the law. He has already tried to stop young violent criminals from being tried as adults.

    Although Senator Obama has presented himself as the candidate of new things — using the mantra of “change” endlessly — the cold fact is that virtually everything has says about domestic policy is straight out of the 1960s and virtually everything he says about foreign policy is straight out of the 1930s.

    Protecting criminals, attacking business, increasing government spending, promoting a sense of envy and grievance, raising taxes on people who are productive and subsidizing those who are not — all this is a re-run of the 1960s.

    We paid a terrible price for such 1960s notions in the years that followed, in the form of soaring crime rates, double-digit inflation and double-digit unemployment. During the 1960s, ghettoes across the countries were ravaged by riots from which many have not fully recovered to this day.

    The violence and destruction were concentrated not where there was the greatest poverty or injustice but where there were the most liberal politicians, promoting grievances and hamstringing the police.

    Internationally, the approach that Senator Obama proposes — including the media magic of meetings between heads of state — was tried during the 1930s. That approach, in the name of peace, is what led to the most catastrophic war in human history.

    Everything seems new to those too young to remember the old and too ignorant of history to have heard about it.

    Thomas Sowell is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution, Stanford University, Stanford, CA 94305. His Web site is http://www.tsowell.com.

    A sister American, proud Air Force veteran, mother, sister, daughter, wife, aunt and friend.

  144. Why is Obama winning a bad thing? Is it because he’s a man? Is it because he’s black? Please give me a reason why the man who won more votes shouldn’t be the winner. How can a man who represents progress so perfectly not be progressive? He and Hilary share many of the same views. He’s a diplomat. Hilary was anything but. She acted like Bush the way she rand this campaign with not giving in. That stunt she pulled with Michigan and Flordia? Are you kidding me? That was completely and utterly underhanded and unhonorable. I don’t want a president that will do anything to win. I want a president that do what is right and stick by it. I don’t want a president that can’t see what Obama being elected would do for this country. He’s Black for godsakes. Black people have been a marginalized group for a long long time, and one being elected president would go along way to the dream of equal rights. Women can pretend that the world isn’t equal for them, but in truth it has been tipped so that they have the bigger advantage in life. You can’t look at the facts from the older generation look at the facts for the new one.

  145. Lisa:

    In terms of policies, Barack and Hillary are not that far apart. Both of them want to take away the tax cuts for the very, very rich and give tax relief to the middle class. America’s criminal justice system is shameful, and although I have not heard Senator Obama say much about it, I would applaud any reforms that he envisions. There are 7 million Americans in the criminal justice system. There have been over 200 people released from death row because they have been found innocent based on DNA. There are thousands of young men and women, mostly Black and Latino, serving 20 years to life for drug “conspiracy” (the crime of having an informant say you plotted with him or her to sell drugs).

    You seem to be afraid of Barack because he inspires so many people and is loved by so many. You seem to want very much to hang onto the status quo, in which case, I certainly wouldn’t blame you for voting for McCain, because he certainly embraces the Republican ideals which Obama opposes.

    We have already had a catastrophic war, initiated by George Bush, voted on by Hillary Clinton. Are you saying that Obama’s election would/could culminate in another one? What proof do you have of that?

    In what ways is Barack arrogant, foolishly clever and ultimately dangerous? Arrogant as in “uppity” as in a Black man is supposed to stay in his place, be humble, not be self-assured? What has he done that is arrogant?

    Foolishly clever? Is that another term for smart? Or exactly what does that mean?

    I gave you the reasons I have voted for Obama. The qualities you mention have nothing to do with choosing a president. But let me tell you what qualities I see in Hillary Clinton that keeps me from voting for her.

    She is dishonest. She ran on the fact that she has 35 years of experience, 8 of which was acquired in the White House. She said she negotiated the Peace Treaty in Northern Ireland. This was found to be false. Yes, she made speeches to inspire women in Northern Ireland to become involved in the peace process. But that’s not what she claimed to have done. She said she went to Bosnia to open the borders. The borders were opened the day before she and Sinbad and Sheryl Crowe arrived for the USO Tour. The “sniper fire” was not the issue, but by making it the issue, the bigger issue of the lie that she opened the borders was avoided. She said she was responsible for SCHIP. But the true framers of that program came forth and explained that she had nothing to do with its passage and in fact, her husband, the then president, was against it.

    She voted for the Iraq war and then said that she didn’t know that her vote was going toward giving Bush authorization to strike Iraq, when by its name one would know the bill was about authorization to deploy U.S. troops to strike Iraq. She showed further poor judgment by voting for the Kyl-Lieberman Bill. She ran what has been dubbed as the worst campaign in the history of presidential campaigns. This is an indication of how she would run the country. She uses polarizing rhetoric such as “Barack Obama does not appeal to hard-working Americans, white Americans.”

    She demonstrated that she was too polarizing to even get a health care plan passed when she was in the White House because of her unwillingness to compromise (a trait that Senator Obama has been praised for). She has the highest negatives of any politician since the gallup poll was created.
    If she was arrogant or foolishly clever, those characteristics could certainly be overlooked — but her policies and practices as demonstrated by her actions cannot.

  146. Just to clarify that last point. I wouldn’t mind if she was foolishly clever or arrogant if she demonstrated honesty, the ability to manage, a vision of inclusion and good judgment. She has not demonstrated any of that.

  147. Dear Harry,

    Are you asking these questions because you want to hear another view or are you asking to set up the premise of your own view?

    In response to your questions:

    1) yes
    2) no
    3) yes – he won because he is black
    4) he gained the advantage of more delegates through political pressure exerted over the superdels, not the will of the people in the states who voted in the caucuses/priimaries. In many instances the superdels voted for him against the will of their constituents. He was also advantaged by the DNC (Dean, Reid, Pelosi, Brazille) by having been given 4 delegates from Michigan that were earned by Hillary Clinton in a legal primary that was certified by their secretary of state. He was also awarded all the delegates that were legally “uncommitted” meaning that they were a vote for no one.
    Hillary Clinton officially won more popular votes. Popular votes are a more accurate reflection of the will of the people because they are one vote:one voter.
    5) “hope” and “change” are not progress; they are nebulous ideas at best; they are also the two most popular words when you conduct a focus group and determine what you want to run an otherwise void-of-substance campaign on. Human beings are usually always hopeful unless they are nihilistic or suicidal and change is that “constant” we are told as children to get used to and happens no matter what humans do.
    5) Though it is not a question: No, they do not share the same views — they may share certain elements of some issues, but most of us do not really know what views Barry Obama holds. He has many mentors and even someone (Michael Phleger) whom he refers to as his “morale compass.” And many of the views that Barry holds, as it turns out, were Hillary’s before they were his. Certainly any details of any issues were hers before they were his. And just as an aside: He has been caught numerous times lifting whole portions of other’s speeches (Mario Cuomo from the 1984 San Francisco convention, Bobby Kennedy’s speeches, Jimmy Carter’s 1976 speech and the like) and presenting them as his own. Simple plagarism.
    6) Though not a quesion: Because he proposes sitting around a table with real enemies of the United States without preconditions does not make him a diplomat — it makes him naive and amateurish. It would also make him a dangerous person to have as president when we are speaking of some of those enemies who have nuclear weaponry. Barry’s stand on this sounds very reasonable and this is why it appeals to many people who have not completely thought through how destabilizing this is for our many allies as well as those countries who look to us and the UN to maintain stability in unstable areas of the world. As a veteran of the military, even I understand the need for these “conditioned” meetings. There are many options between preemptive attack (the Bush policy) and Kumbaya (Barry’s policy). Though he doesn’t come right out and state it–because he isn’t that forthcoming, he uses this position as a way of indirectly accusing Senator Clinton as a “hawk”. He uses this and his only substantial claim that she “voted for the war” as one of his only few really accurate statements about Senator Clinton. However, even then he leads his audience to believe that he was somehow in a position to vote against it, when he wasn’t — since he wasn’t there to vote for or against it.
    7. Sen. Clinton wasn’t a diplomat? You’re right, she wasn’t an official diplomat to a foreign country with that title, however, she has been to over 80 countries (not including the US) in her capacity as First Lady, a position she held in the Clinton administration. Also as First Lady she was tasked with numerous domestic issues like healthcare reform and education initiatives as a head of various task forces and in advisory roles. Before this position, she served as the First Lady of the State of Arkansas for 12 years during which she served as a leader in both education and healthcare reform — with successful outcomes in both areas.
    8. Though not a question: Hillary Clinton has a much deeper and broader grasp of diplomatic protocol and need in areas that Barry Obama has no understanding whatsoever.
    9. In response to your next statement: I don’t know to what you are referring. Hillary Clinton is not GWB. She did not give in because that’s serious presidential candiates do not give in when they are winning. That would be absurd.
    10. “That sunt she pulled with Michigan and Florida”: The Michigan and Florida caucuses/primaries were anything but “stunts.” If you google a history of why MI and FL held their elections when they did you will discover that it had nothing to do with any of the candidates. However, Barry Obama removed his name from the MI primary because he learned early in polling that he was going to trail Sen. Clinton by a wide margin and he removed his name as a political strategy to curry favor with the Ohio voters (who felt they should have gone ahead of Michigan). The Florida and Michigan “stunt” was actually performed by the Democratic voters of these two states who felt that their votes should count in the election of the president.
    11: No, I’m not kidding you or anyone else.
    12. It was not underhanded or dishonorable. It was as I have explained it above. It was both underhanded and dishonorable for the DNC to give all of the “uncommitted” votes to Barry Obama because uncommited votes are a vote for no one. It was both underhanded and extremely dishonorable for the DNC to give AND for Barry Obama to accept 4 delegates who were bona fide Clinton delegates.
    13. I don’t want a president who will do anything to win, either.
    14. I want a president who will do what is right and stick by it, too. That person would be Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton.
    15. Actually Barry Obama is not black. According to U.S. law he is 12.5% African-American which does not reach the threshold to be considered “black” under a legal description of protected classes. I don’t have the actual other percentages of his geneology at hand, but you can find that information also on the internet. Nonetheless, he is a person of color and I agree with your point.
    16, 17, 18. We shouldn’t vote for anyone, whether they are black, white, male or female unless they are qualified to be president. Barry Obama has the least experience of any Democratic or Republican candidate to EVER run for president in U.S. history. He gained his congressional seat in Illinois by running unapposed and by knocking off his opponents, one of whom was a highly qualified and highly regarded black woman, Alice Palmer, by using the rules to give him slim legal “rules” advantage. You can also research this episode in Barry’s life on the internet.
    19. Equal rights must be enjoyed by all people in our country. White, black, men, women. Unless we are all equal under the law, none of us can move forward.
    20. Women do not pretend to be equal in the world. Today I learned that fathers are selling their daughters, children as young as 6 years old, in order to satisfy debt for their failed poppy crops (heroin). Because of equal pay legislation that has not been enforced, many women, both black and white in the United States earn only, on average, 68% of what their male counterparts earn for the same work. Girls in our country are given the same opportunity, but not the same encouragement to pursue work in engineering and the sciences as boys. It has only been since the mid-1980’s that girls, both black and white, have been able to participate and have school sports organizations that are funded as well as sports for boys. Black men were able to vote after the Civil War whereas women of any color could not vote until 1920. These are just a few examples of how the scales have NOT “tipped” to give advantage to women either here in the U.S. nor especially in the rest of the world.
    21. We must look at ALL of the facts, whether they are “old” facts or “young” facts. I agree, we must not confuse opinion or heresay with facts. We must not, especially, confuse what paid political pundits, paid political analysts or paid cable “news” talking heads tell us with the facts.

    I hope this is helpful to you, Harry.

    Best Wishes,

  148. Dear Harry,

    I meant to say that fathers in Afganistan are selling their daughers (not sons, but daughters) to settle their debts. That’s terribly sad for these children, isn’t it? Senator Clinton would have not only a lot to say about such human rights violations, but she would probably also have a detailed plan to reverse these abuses.
    I’m sad that Senator Clinton is not our Democratic nominee because she is one of the few people who has, herself, struggled against discrimination in this race to an unheard of degee. She earned more popular (remember a truer reflection of the people’s will than delegate counts) votes than any candidate in any presidential election in the history of our great country.


  149. Beverly,

    Thank you for your comments. I really want to know all the facts I can about both of the candidates before I “pull the lever” this November.

    I appreciate all the wonderful things that Barry Obama represents to so many and that he is so loved. I am not fearful of him, as you say, because of this.

    However, when it comes down to it, I will probably be voting for the first time for our Republican candidate, John McCain. I say “our”, because we are all Americans–not hyphenated Americans. I do not agree with his stand on most of the issues, but I have talked to people who have worked with him in the legislature and because of the ameliorating circumstances of a Democratic-controlled legislature I am not concerned about court justices or Roe v. Wade. These are “stampede” issues meant to scare Clinton Dems into voting a straight Democratic ticket.

    I believe Senator McCain loves our country deeply and without reservation. I believe that he is committed to all the tenets of democracy, including tolerance and respect for each other. These are very important aspects of being a Democrat.

    Before anyone makes these claims of me: My vote is a silly protest, I know. And I am a foolish, sore loser of a woman, I know.

    But, if it is possible for you to have empathy for me for a moment, I think you may understand that in many ways I feel that me and my vote have not counted in these primaries and the Democratic Party was not fair to Senator Clinton or to those who suppported her. The media has not been fair nor balanced in their reporting of these primaries.

    Let’s just say that my vote–that didn’t count for much–and was “not needed and not wanted” by the Obama people, wil go to Senator McCain because that’s all I’ve got left in protest. Our middle-class, struggling family has been ignored for 8 years by President Bush. I feel my family will be ignred for at least 4 more whether it is President McCain or President Obama. Barry Obama has a precise agenda that does not include a 50-something white woman and her family. He’s made that very clear.

    My 12 year-old daughter and I have been spit on, called names, shunned and my car has been vandalized (bumper sticker problem, I guess)because of our support of Hillary Clinton. In an odd way it pleases me to know that I’ve experienced just a little bit of what she endured over the course of this race. It makes me a more compassionate person, I think.

    Best Wishes,

  150. Lisa,

    I am sorry if my comments to Beverly were not in keeping with the spirit of your blog. I just got weary of the constant double standard that these posters apply to Senator Clinton. They say the most awful things without as much “proof” as Fox News gives and then demand that we have a “fly on the wall” “proof” for any negative thing said about Obama.

    I have watched too many good people who turn the other cheek lose because they did not speak out as harshly as their critics and I have a lifelong Republican friend who does not like McCain and is musing over voting for Obama because she only knows the media praise about Obama.

    Although we all know the history of the slavery movement, few know the history of the suffrage movement and its pain. And as we all know, those who fail to heed the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them. I really don’t want my daughter’s daughters to re-fight this so recently won battle. I’ve seen what George W. Bush has done to this nation in 8 years and I truly believe it can not withstand another four years of the wrong MAN living in Our White House. Especially when we have such an ideal woman candidate to take his place.

  151. Hi Carol,

    I think Beverly was not so much interested in hearing an opposing view as she was in continuing her oppressive, bullying diatribe–so very characteristic of the tone and intent of the Barry campaign.

    As with my reply to Harry, I could have very ably gone down through her post, item by item, and refuted every one of her so-called “facts” about Hillary Clinton. The difference between her post and Harry’s is that it seemed to me that Harry was really trying to understand how it was that we could feel the way we feel based on what he knew to be “true” — a “truth” that only one who has been fed the “news” could arrive at if they had not done any further research or participated in a real debate of the facts.

    You’re right. We all know the history of the slavery and the successive movements which have culminated to wide-spread public knowledge of the real plight and continued enfranchising of African-Americans. We, Americans of all colors, male AND female, worked hard and risked everything to bring about the real change that has brought us here today.

    I agree, As women we do not enjoy the same wide-spread support of Americans or others who still believe it is okay to subjegate and denigrate women–in this country or in the world at large. We pay a lot of lip service to the ideal of equality for women, but in truth there is not only strong sexism against women but we are told that we are “lucky” to have achieved what we’ve struggled so hard for. I’m not sure what to make of such largesse. You would think that if anyone should recognize the status of women–of all colors–and empathize with that status, it would be a sister who has also faced racial discrimination.

    But that is not the case. I guess it’s a case of: “We’ve got ours now, so there’s no more room in this (I say, leaky) lifeboat.” What they don’t understand is that as long as anyone in this great nation is robbed of their full status, none of us is truly elevated. We learned that lesson during the Civil Rights movement of the 20th c.

    Now, about turning the other cheek. My grandma who, herself, was Black Foot native, always said to my mother: “When you raise your voice the children do not have to listen. (There were 6 of us children) But when you talk softly, they have to be quiet so that they can hear.” I think my grandma also knew that when you talk softly a child has a natural propensity to prick their ears up to hear a “secret.”

    Did you notice during the stump speeches that there were times when Hillary would drop her voice and lose the strident tone that characterizes a “speech.” That’s when she was at her best. And it wasn’t a put on. She did this a lot and it was her connection with her audience–a genuine connection. It was because of this that FOX “news” lashed out with the “take out the garbage” nonsense.

    Barry, on the other hand, is very studied in his speech-making. It is the pulpiteering speech: 3 octaves up, 3 octaves down. Over and over again, punctuated with the finger stabbing the air, the grimace, the chin tilted into the air, the false waving off of the “bad” things that Hillary Clinton represents. Then there is the timed fainting episode that always happens right in the front and center of whatever stage he is standing on. It’s offensive to hear him say “Oh, we’ve got someone here who needs help — let’s get some water for them and is there a paramedic here? It’s hot out today, so make sure you drink water.” First of all he knows good and well there is a paramedic there. It is there for him! And secondly he always makes the diagnoses of overheating. Now how does he know that person hasn’t just suffered an epileptic seizure or heart attack? He knows because it’s a plant. Barry is a tent preacher — selling the gospel of Obama — the gospel of hope and change. Well, I don’t know about him, but I wouldn’t be trying to compete with the real thing if I were him.

    I hope you’ve hung with me this long. Sorry for this tome.

    As for your friend: Maybe you can use some of the arguments I stated to Harry, above. Your friend needs to hear the gospel of the truth based on facts, not what the “news” is feeding her. If it is the truth she is interested in. There is a line in the movie ” American President” in which the president character says: “Democracy is advanced citizenship–you’ve got to want it because it’s going to put up a fight.” The kind of democracy we get is directly proportional to the kind of fight we wage for it. It’s like anything else in our lives and Christianity springs to mind here for me. We may want salvation, but there are some “rules” we must attempt to meet in order to secure it. They aren’t hard rules, but they require us to take a public stand; to risk being shouted down, humiliated, called names, lied about and even spit upon. I don’t know too many people who would purposely take on that risk but we must if we are to not have something that calls itself democracy but is something else. The people founded this country knew this; the people who have won real progress since then knew this.

    Like you, I’m fearful that my young daughter (who has the double bind of also being Chinese-American) will have to take up the fight for women’s rights all over again. I don’t think we need to worry about reproductive rights, though. Overturning Roe v. Wade is not a simple matter. It would take another consitutional amendment. That would take a lot longer than any one or two terms of a presidency even if it were the popular thing to do–which it is not.

    Mostly what I am fearful of in this regard are all the young adult women who believe they are not discriminated against–that they do not to be protected under title IX of the Civil Rights Act. I don’t know where they are getting the idea that they are not being discriminated against on a daily basis. They seem to believe that because they have the “freedom” of self-expression that includes being able to look like Playboy centerfolds, that men somehow applaud their “stand”. What they do not seem to realize is that women of all colors, up and down the line in our country are discriminated against in far more important ways: wage discrimination, for example (I have a friend whose lucrative law practice is based on nothing but workplace harrassment and pay discrimination suits). Just as much racial discrimination has been driven undergound so, too, has sexism been driven there.

    Carol, we can survive one term of McCain. The forces of the DNC have all but assured us that Hillary will not be the candidate though that hasn’t stopped me from praying for a miracle.


  152. […] So much for reaching out to us ASAP (by riverdaughter at The Confluence) After working hard all morning accepting the support that Clinton gave him, after all of the heavy lifting he did last week by accepting the gifts that the RBC gave him, Barry went golfing. Howard Dean, however, DID reach out to us immediately.  Within SECONDS.  To ask for money.  I told him I may consider donating to the Democratic Party once Barack Obama has crawled on his belly like a reptile to beg forgiveness of Hillary Clinton and her supporters for how he and his supporters have treated us. […]

  153. For those who wish to stay together in a long term commitment to the ideals and rinciples that Hillary Clinton has spent a lifetime promoting, http://Together4Us.com offers access for activists, funders, students, policy-makers and ordinary people to come together in support of each other and their goals for America. Please come to our website and join, use the code below to put our linked logo on your website and distribute our message and this code to all your network. Spread the word. We will be happy to put up a reciprocal link, your own co-branded web page on our site, or your own blog.

    Thanks so much,
    Gretchen Glasscock,

  154. How often do you yourself Windsurf or do you just write about it?

    Can I ask though – how did you get this picked up and into google news?

    Very impressive that this blog is syndicated through Google and is it something that is just up to Google or you actively created?

    Obviously this is a popular blog with great data so well done on your seo success..

    Windsurfing greats you should write about next.

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