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Don’t tell me how to hold my nose

Sweeties, this one’s for you: I know all about holding my nose to vote — I’ve done it for over 35 years but, I’ve done it for the last time.

And that last time? Let me tell you about it. Ah, yes, it was John Kerry. (fadeout)

I remember about this time of year in 2004 talking to a co-worker about John Kerry. He was a Viet Nam era veteran and was concerned about some things he’d heard about Kerry. Specifically my colleague was unhappy about Kerry’s anti-war activities in the early 1970s. My friend was especially displeased with the symbolism of Kerry tossing his metals over the White House fence.

Good party-regular that I am was I had the responding-talking-point handy and made my dutiful reply. Now? I can’t for the life of me remember what it was and he was not impressed at all. I’ll tell you something — I should have known at that moment that the whole thing was hopeless. And that was before the Jane Fonda-at-the-rally photograph — and MONTHS before the Swiftboat Veterans got their say.

I spent months trying to explain the lies away or explain Kerry’s antiwar history (and God knows I was sympathetic enough to THAT) But why did Kerry have to make it so hard? Why did everything he say sound like he was deliberately trying to obscure what he meant?

And why, four years later, are we about to nominate a guy with all to many of those characteristics in common with Kerry?

I’ve made no secret of my dislike for Barack Obama on policy, substance or qualifications. But, this post isn’t about that. This post is about why on November 3, 2004 I promised myself that I was never, ever going to hold my nose and vote again.

All those months we defended Kerry — all over the country Democrats just like me trying to explain to our friends and neighbors “what Kerry meant.” And for all I know getting it all wrong. ‘Cause who the hell really ever knew what he meant?

And now Obama. Even without knowing if “The Tape” exists, I know exactly what it would mean to hold my nose for Barack Obama. It would mean spending the next five months explaining why Barack Obama’s shady friends are meaningless compared to the danger of electing John McCain. Which under some circumstances might be true enough. Is it enough this year?

Here’s my problem: HOW does Obama explain all those shady connections? If he won’t talk about it and we CAN’T talk about it — how do we know what to say?

And if we can get past the shady connections, how do we explain his utter lack of qualifications? Somehow Obama managed to get through this entire campaign without any public acknowledgment that this will be his first serious job. We can’t count his Senate career. Career? He wasn’t there a year before he was ready to move on.

The thing is sweeties, I know ALL about holding my nose to vote: The trick is making myself believe it’s what I really want to do. And so far, I just don’t see that happening this year with The Precious. This year? Maybe I’ll go B.O.W.L.-ing* instead.

*B.O.W.L. – Barack Obama Will Lose (see: here & here & here & here)

366 Responses

  1. my older brother died in Vietnam when I little so I liked the medal throwing thing.

  2. TYJ, the thing is a lot of people (like my friend) didn’t — they didn’t like it even though it was something Kerry had done years and years ago.

    I’m starting to believe that our Democratic Talking Points sooth us but, they don’t convince the Swing Votes.

    And I don’t thing Obama is going to be any more successful than Kerry. At least Kerry got the Democrats to vote for him. Obama’s been a miserable failure at that.

  3. No nose-holding for me. Obama is not my responsibility. Like I said downstairs:

    He makes it easy for me to watch in amusement as the GOP launches its withering assaults against him as they pound away at his ignorance and inexperience.

    He makes it easy for me to ignore his whining about racism because he’s going to reap what he has sown.

    He makes it easy for me to remain silent when his injudicious wife is pilloried for her crassness.

    He makes it easy for me to vote for McCain.

  4. yeah, I know there are people who dont like to be remined of that abject failure of a war. We Americans pride ourselves on winning so it was tought o face up to it.

    I dont know what you mean by Dem talking points to soothe us though?

  5. Judith, I mean that eventually there will be explanations for Obama’s “problems” — like, “Obama didn’t know Wright was saying that shocking stuff”. Part of “Holding my nose” would be that I’d tell people that. And when people asked why Obama announced his very first political campaign at the Ayers/Dohrn house, I’d say, “Obama was only 8 years old when Ayers/Dohrn did those things, and his kids go to school with their kids” — and I’d believe it.

    But, no one asking me about it would. ‘Cause it sounds stupid.

  6. But, but, but, Katiebird. Dean is from the “democratic wing of the Democratic Party”. We have to vote for his candidate! /snark.

    So should we vote for a guy who has never held a full-time job in his life and has been propped up enormously? Or should we vote for the guy who lived in a box for 5 years and refused to go home when offered a special deal that his fellow captives didn’t get? (and would you ever expect Obama to do something like that?)

    Gee, I’m voting my own personal integrity this time. I don’t think either of the evil candidates will save the polar bears.

  7. I can hold my nose and vote, but not for Obama.

    I cannot in good conscience cast a vote for Obama. Not because he is less qualified than Hillary, but because he is unqualified for the job.

    Not only that, but he has also demonstrated that he is morally and ethically disqualified from being President.

    I wouldn’t vote for George W. Bush if he was a Democrat either.

  8. Teresa, I can’t imagine reaching the point where I would actually vote for John McCain (although I just a half hour ago saw a very nice campaign ad for him on TV) — still, it’s hard to say. Six months ago I couldn’t imagine not voting for the Democratic Nominee.

  9. Katiiebird – oh, I get ya now.Thanks for explaining.

  10. I thought that Kerry was brave to oppose the war when he came back from Viet Nam and I thought he was brave to throw the medals. It was his explanation of it that really, really sucked. I kept waiting for him to remind people what the Viet Nam war was really about…but he let the chickens who got out of serving win the “war of the narrative.” He was a hero, dammit, during and after the war. But something happened to him after he “grew up.” He lost the passion, I guess. I didn’t hold my nose for Kerry so much as I kept my fingers crossed. I knew he didn’t have what it took to win, but I knew he couldn’t be worse than Bush. But Bush isn’t running this time.

  11. With all due respect to Hillary’s truly outstanding speech, I’m not voting for a Democrat simply beacuse they are a Democrat. If I thought that Obama was the best we have to offer I would have supported him in the primaries.

    And then there are the party officials…’nuff said.

  12. Katiebird – whew – thanks for this:

    ” I can’t imagine reaching the point where I would actually vote for John McCain (although I just a half hour ago saw a very nice campaign ad for him on TV) — still, it’s hard to say. Six months ago I couldn’t imagine not voting for the Democratic Nominee”

    Tell me about it, sister!! It is sooooo awful.

  13. There is no way to explain Obama’s associations other than what they are.

    This election will be John “POW” McCain vs. Obama (Rezko, Wright, Ayers, Farrakhan). That’s how the GOP will spin it, and that’s the way most people will see it.

    I don’t believe Obama’s lies about his ties to Rezko, and I don’t expect other reasonable people to do so either.

  14. myiq2xu, That qualification thing is what scares me. I am astonished that he got through ANY debates with his resume. What were they thinking to let him slide through those early days.

    He is amazingly unqualified that it defies words (hmm maybe that’s the problem?)

  15. “I’m not voting for a Democrat simply beacuse they are a Democrat”

    OK. But I am not voting for a Republican Because they are a Republican. There is a difference I think.

  16. Just to throw my two cents in. I think Kerry throwing the medals was really classless. It really was a slap in the face to every military person. I think people back then were caught up in their anger and did a lot of foolish things. There are ways to protest a war without denigrating military service as a whole. I believe Kerry was caught up in his stardom then, and he paid for his arrogance later by not being elected President.

  17. the young judith,

    I think I speak for many of us when I say that at the end of The Summer of Revelations we expect that Hillary will be our Nominee.

  18. katiebird….I am so glad to hear others say this….this has been my contention all along.

  19. Katiebird, our hands will be too busy B.O.W.L-ing to hold our noses to vote!

    We have out PUMA BOWL-ing shirts on and we are not budging!

    Obama is defenseless. I can’t even convince myself to vote for him, how can I convince other people to vote for him?

    If a regular joe-schmo had Obama’s creditials like his Rezko, Auchi, Ayers & wife, Wright, Farrakhan, Pfelgler mess, he wouldn’t even be able to get a job at the airport, let alone president. He wouldn’t even be able to go inside the Pentagon, fer chriss sakes!

    Kerry was the way they painted him, a weakened flip-flopping mess. I couldn’t even defend him after he didn’t do anything to defend himself, he just lollied along to defeat. And I voted for him anyway because I’m a “good” democrat.

    WELL THOSE DAYS ARE OVER. I’m no longer “yellow dog” Democrats. I’m a PUMA and we are not about to suffer another fool. We had the “ONE” who’d beat the Republicans – and they fixed the race.

    So let’s go BOWL-ing this election day!

  20. I made this website my home page !! It would crush me if Riverdaughter or katiebird voted for barry. We can’t have that !! I will vote for McCain for the simple fact I can’t stand barry and his lies or the DNC. I want HRC in 2012.

    I see John McCain more of a moderate. I see Barry owing way too many favors and full of shit.

  21. the young judith,

    Who said not voting Democratic means voting Republican? Are you making the argument that by not automatically voting ‘D’ is somehow wrong?

  22. Katiebird, I have heard people say that. I have no idea myself. She was so terrifc today I got weepy.

  23. I stopped listening to black radio stations months ago. The hatred and spreading of misinformation became unbearable, and it was all orchestrated by Obama and his minions.

    I’m still speaking to my family and friends — politics isn’t worth damaging those relationships — but I can’t share in their euphoria at the prospect of voting for a black man for president regardless of the fact that he is woefully unqualified and certain to be a failure if by some fluke he is elected.

  24. The main thing about Kerry (and Gore for that matter) is that he didn’t fight the way that Bill and Hillary did. I don’t know why they didn’t fight. It was almost like they didn’t know how.

    Hillary fought all the way, she could have beat down the republicans without any trouble. She just couldn’t fight the backstabbers in her own party.

  25. Teresa, on June 7th, 2008 at 8:19 pm Said:

    So should we vote for a guy who has never held a full-time job in his life and has been propped up enormously? Or should we vote for the guy who lived in a box for 5 years and refused to go home when offered a special deal that his fellow captives didn’t get? (and would you ever expect Obama to do something like that?)

    Everytime you say that it strikes a nerve in me, “guy who lived in a box for 5 years and refused to go home.”

    McCain is like that Alec Guiness character in “Bridge on the River Kwai” – that is some serious heroic dedication and honor to your country!

    How is Hokey-Dokey 0bambi gonna beat that?

  26. no coldblue steel,

    what I am saying is I am not voting for mccain because he IS a republican.

  27. Coldblue (nodding) I sure never said that. In fact —

    TYJ, I just realized, I ended the post saying that I would go bowling rather than vote for either McCain or Obama. With links to what that means.

  28. Speaking of denigrating “military service as a whole,” I was appalled at the purple heart bandaids many folks were supporting not all that long ago. And I bet those same people are squealing they support the troops.

  29. supporting = sporting

  30. The Republicans picked the best candidate they could. McCain is a centrist Repuiblican. Obama and the DNC are going to try to paint McCain as another Bush, but that is just another one of their lies. I think we all know that McCain is not Bush, and we all saw that McCain was forced to do the same thing with Bush that Clinton is having to do now with Obama, suck it up and endorse the fraud.
    I see a lot of parallels between how the Republicans treatred McCain in 2000, and how Democrats are treating Clinton now, and it is really endearing me to McCain. Democrats should be very scared that the Media is picking Obama over the Republican. Why is this? We all know the media is Evil. Why don’t they want McCain? Why do they want Obama so badly? Obama is scary.

    sorry for the shouting, was a mistake,
    Now, I don’t know what to do. I will watch and hope that something happens to reverse this awfulness.

    McCaine is revolting but the Obomination is worse. (at lesat to me)

  32. kbird——— it gets o so worse regarding kerry, treehouse foods, ms. o and a place called La Junta. I didn’t click your links but, trust me.
    ps–while you all work on obama, I will research mccain to the 9th degree — in the press, in the past, in the present.
    don’t forget, o’s ad agencies are very good with propaganda—I’m not seeing that yet–not from McCain—I think this is going to be the straightest, most democratic election in years and McCain almost ran as a dem—once–don’t be fooled by the ads or the hype this time around—and I’m still your friend—I won’t ever waste a vote, ever!
    it’s totally corrupt kbird when you look. http://www.obamatruth.org
    if a million women are going to march I’ll be there.

  33. Or should we vote for the guy who lived in a box for 5 years and refused to go home when offered a special deal that his fellow captives didn’t get? (and would you ever expect Obama to do something like that?)


    Isn’t it ironic that in this situation Obama’s gender will work against him? I hope I don’t offend any men when I say this, but Obama doesn’t really measure up when compared to McCain, man to man.

    Hillary’s challenges regarding McCain would have been more about policy and experience. Because of Obama’s thin resume and lack of specific policy, all that is left to judge him on is his character, and he is seriously wanting in that department.

  34. Here’s the thing: My party left me officially on May 31, 2008. I actually would like to have my party back, because the influence of money in politics has become so great that I don’t think there’s enough money out there to start a third party. Even if we could convince someone like Hillary to head up the ticket of a third party, who are the other candidates going to be? Governors? Representatives? Senators? How about state committee members? etc, etc.

    So, bottom line, I’d like to have a party to belong to, but only if they represent the principles I believe in. That means full equality. That means fair markets, not free markets. That means peace loving, not war mongering.

    That means this year, I will have to hold my nose and vote for McCain, because if we end up with both major parties only caring for those who are wealthy, or have college degrees, or who are males, then I no longer have anyone to vote for–even as an independent.

  35. TYJ– I am not shy and I now tell everyone that I will vote for McCain. I add that I hold no illusions that McCain will be a good president . I NO LONGER CARE. The DNC needs to be destroyed. I and other PUMAs who chose to vote for McCain are the chemotherapy that will kill the cancer in the Democratic Party and return it to robust health. I am not preaching to anyone, vote for McCain, go B.O.W.L.ing, or vote for the Green Party. We are all adults, we make our own decisions. I often tell my children, that they should get all the facts, make a decision and don’t look back. I am not saying to be Bushllike, you can certainly change course in the future, but we need to stop feeling guilty about our decisions. Dean, Pelosi, and Brazille are not crying in their white wine. Lets get over this and move on, America needs us , the adults of the Democratic Party. Our tough love now, will be celebrated in the history books as the Renaissance of the Democratic Party. (sorry, planning our European vacation, to start on the 12th and I have been reading too many guide books. Boy, do I need a vacation.)

  36. Riverdaughter: Trust me, I’ve never had any inkling to vote for a Republican before, however, in this case, the Dem must be stopped. The corrupt, crooked, criminal chicago machine must be stopped.

  37. I think what Obama will do is that everytime McCain mentions his military and POW service, he (or his supporters) will cry foul and say the Republicans are playing the patriotism card. Obama is passive aggressive and anytime his opponent try to stress their credentials, he knows it reflects badly on him (since he doesn’t have any) and claims its a “disappointing” or “sad” attack.

  38. The other thing I won’t do is the whole denigrating McCain thing. I’m over that. I saw it down to one of our own and I don’t enjoy it anymore. It’s lost its luster. I won’t vote for the guy, but that’s about all. I did say earlier, we live in a Republic, two Parties. And, McCain is a healthy step for the Republic(no, that doesn’t mean I want him to win, only that I’m glad he won his Party’s nomination). Here’s why, his signature issue seems to be combatting global warming. Though he and Obama have the wrong idea, IMO, because they include nuclear in their plans, I think he’s changed the way Republicans will run forever. No longer will low taxes and far right religiousity be the issue de jour of the Repub nominee.

    The sadest thing about today was watching the person I believe would have been one of our finest Presidents hit the glass ceiling with the help of the Democratic Party.

  39. Honora: Exactly. The Dems don’t feel any conscience about destroying the last two-term Democratic Presidency and shooting the party in the foot to get the stupid beotch out of the race. Destruction of the Democratic Party is their goal, why shouldn’t the chemotherapy of temporary destruction be ours?

  40. If HRC was as racist as BO is sexist, I would not have supported her candidacy on that basis alone. So I have no qualms in my decision to not vote for Obama because he is sexist. But he makes it much easier for me because he’s also unqualified.

  41. Teresa, I agree. I don’t want the Democratic Party to turn into a Chicago style organization. That way lies corruption and unaccountability.

  42. WS,

    Obama can be as passive aggressive as he wants, the republicans won’t stop. That’s why they usually win. They’re relentless.

  43. Unqualified in other ways besides his sexism..

  44. Honora,

    I like that, We are Chemotherapy. One thing to remember, though. My mom had breast cancer, and chemotherapy probably saved her life. However, she hated chemotherapy, and said she would NEVER go through it again.
    My point is we may help to bring the party back to its senses, but they will hate us for it.
    They are already laying the groundwork to blame us and Clinton when Obozo loses.

  45. ok, you all keep leaving me downstairs talking to myself! I did the same thing last night. tabbycat needs a new thread warning!

    Now to go catch up…

  46. Mawm – I would say the GOP picked the only guy they could. Nobody good would run,.

    I dont jate McCain – I value his service and he seems kinda funny. But I am not rewarding the GOP for the last 7 years – they suck soooo bad.

  47. Another nose-holder for Kerry here. I held my nose and voted a straight Democratic ticket as I had done all my adult life. And the gutless wonder didn’t even have the integrity to fight for his votes and voters in Ohio.

    That was when I said no more. I promised myself that unless I thought someone was worthy of being President they wouldn’t get my vote. A “D” after their name would never again be enough.

    That the tainted, asterisked, nominee of the DNC is Obama makes that promise easy to keep. If I held my nose tight enough to enable me to vote for a corrupt nominee pushed across the finish line by a corrupted DNC and Party-Leadership the damn nose would fall off.
    NOBAMA from Marge in Kenosha Wisconsin. And this state will be very close. So my voting for McCain (gag!) is a finger in the eye of the corrupt Democratic Party.

    PUMAs together have POWER!

  48. I am glad that McCain was the nominee. He is truly the only Republican I can think of that I could bring myself to vote for….and it’s all about the 5-years in a box. Otherwise, I’d go with Nader because of his VP (can’t stand Nader himself, but there was rightness in his opinion that Democrats and Republicans are no different).

  49. It will be fun to see OB and company try the guilt thing
    and the PC stuff on the GOP . Like that will work. The only thing that might throw off the GOP at the start is they don’t have to lie & make up stuff about Barry. It’s all there.!

  50. katiebird – that B.O.W.L thing is funny. 🙂

  51. HOW can I get a PUMA T shirt?

    I want to buy one for me and my friends.

  52. Troll alert–I was over at NoQuarter, and now the Obamabots are hijacking legitimate posters’ screen names and posting pro-Obama comments. Talk about an infestation! It’s worse than ever over there. Thought I’d pass this along as an alert, in case someone attempts this here.

    Also saw an interesting post there that perhaps one of the reasons that Hillary stuck it out until today is that she wanted to expose the true hypocrisy of the DNC – sending a powerful message to her followers to not stand for it. Think about what would have happened if she had withdrawn before May 31? Go PUMAs.

  53. yeah – but the site moderators can see the email addresses so it aint an issue indyboomer.

  54. Every post here expresses my attitude towards Obama and the Democratic Party TODAY. I want the party that cared for the people; for clean government, non-discriminatory according to race, religion, gender or age. We can’t have that party back unless we deny support to the characters who corrupted it. I therefore cannot vote for Obama. I will vote for McCain because he is NOT OBAMA and he was honorable and courageous enough to endure living in a box for five years and demonstrated his love of country. That kind of man will not deliberately pursue policies that hurt his people.

  55. Annetoo,

    MY partner and I were talking about the same thing. The GOP will laugh at Obama if he tries to play the race card again. I hope he does, because I want him totally repudiated for playing race politics. It is one of the main reasons I hate his candidacy. He used race as a weapon against Clinton and that was when the line was crossed for me. I won’t support that, and I won’t support a party that rewards it.

  56. Melanie, on June 7th, 2008 at 8:50 pm Said:
    “The sadest thing about today was watching the person I believe would have been one of our finest Presidents hit the glass ceiling with the help of the Democratic Party.”

    Great comment Melanie. I feel the same way. Our party did this to one of our best, if not the best, candidates ever. I keep reminding myself that when the yellow dog in me comes out.

    katie, is this the post you worried about last night? It’s great. The last two Pres. elections, I worked at a large corp with a bunch of Independents and pretty moderate Republicans. I could argue all their talking points against my candidate. How in the heck would we do that this year? They are true.

  57. Mawm: And I should remind you that McCain has an adopted “brown” child. She is Bangladeshi but looks like an AA. So it will be tricky for Obama to play the race card on McCain. Playing it on his voters won’t work either.

    Melanie: I always like to say she shattered the glass ceiling so they replaced it with bullet-proof plexiglass.

  58. Thanks tabbycat — it is. Well, it’s pretty heavily edited since then. I took out a long depressing aside about watching all the Ohio voters standing in the rain with the helicopters blowing over them. Thousands waited in line ’till midnight to vote.

    My friends and I were at a Diner when Kerry dropped out. He didn’t stand up for them for a single day.

    It was too much for an aside — I had to take it out.

    (still fuming)

  59. katiebird: I’m sure Kerry was shocked that Clinton didn’t wimp out — as he would have.

  60. “Because of Obama’s thin resume and lack of specific policy, all that is left to judge him on is his character, and he is seriously wanting in that department.”

    But the DemoElites think his “historical” blackness will fill the void of quallification and lack of character. In other words, they nominate a one-trick pony and hope the media will hype it up enough to fool enough voters. The election will be a test to see if this racial trickery can really fool the American people.

  61. kc: And scheduling the Democratic National Convention so that his nomination speech falls on the 25th anniversary of the “MLK I have a dream” speech is designed to propel him to victory.

    I think by that date, people will be so jaded by Obama, they’ll realize just how pre-planned this whole election process was.

    Why the heck did we have primaries if they already knew who they would (s)elect.

  62. katie, I wouldn’t expect Obama to fight for those voters either but I’ll bet the party officials would raise holy hell if they feel Obama gets cheated. I don’t think Ohio will be close enough to matter this time.

    When I think of how strongly Hillary finished and how weak he finished, it boggles my mind. They don’t care or they hate the Clintons that much or both.

  63. Mawm, well when the GOP 527’s attack and especially when its egregious, the Obama campaign will demand McCain to renounce them (he’s already renounced the NC state party attack ad). They’re going to say McCain is ineffectual (with the implicit insinuation that he is old) because he can’t control the 527’s and/or his state parties. Maybe McCain should “straight talk” (whatever that means) and say its Obama’s problems and he should deal with it especially if its over his connections or Repub distorted policy attacks.

    On the Swift boat attacks, the Bush campaign was brazen enough to shrug off Kerry’s appeal to make them denounce Swift Boaters and say they have nothing to do with the Swift Boat 527’s. The media then proceeded to play the ad over and over again. Of course, it didn’t help that Kerry waited a couple of weeks to address the issue. The Obama campaign usually is quick on this and usally answer a major problem with a speech (wouldn’t that get tiring?)

    When his opponents attack, the Obama campaign always tries to make the attack backfire but he got major help from the media when he was against Hillary.

  64. Teresa, I did not know that about the date of the convention until today. What a sham! How did they know that Obama would win except it had been rigged a long time before. They just never realized Clinton would keep fighting all the way and expose their precious as a fraud.

  65. they will go after him for his age and I dont think that will work well.

    on the other hand, I didnt think calling the clinton’s racist would work well.

    Hey, amybody notice the gossip today about spike lee giving clint eastwood a rash for not having black people in the falgs of iwo jima movie? I question the timing of the press reporting the squabble…

  66. I want someone to explain to me the virtue of “any Democrat is better than McCain” I keep reading and hearing from the Obama unity team.

    It amazes me that Obama supporters can’t come up with anything better than that. Is it that they know down deep they are supporting a candidate who has nothing to offer?

    Have the democrats done anything to save this country during their long awaited chance at being the majority in congress? We gave it to them, and they squandered their chance to prove their own worth.

    I cannot vote for Obama. I cannot put a check in the box that says it’s okay to the DNC, to Axerod, to Obama, and all who have been so instrumental in this corrupt primary. It isn’t okay.

    – JavaCityPal

  67. Hillary won. And gave the most difficult speech ever of this campaign; to be robbed of the victory that rightfully belongs to her and the people and to endorse the culprit and his cohorts for reasons that only she will ever know. We must not give in or reward the perpetrators of this corruption and injustice. It is our turn to fight for her. She can’t say or do the things that ought to be said at the moment.

    I am fervently praying and hoping that divine providence somehow will reveal itself and she’lll still be the nominee. Some might laugh at me for saying so. But the times when she was counted out, she managed to come back because some uncontrolled events came to the light. I am hoping for similar things. August is two months away. So many things can happen.

  68. WS, McCain will denounce them just like Bob Corker did the ones against Harold Ford in TN, but the damage will already be done. I can’t think of a way that Obama can seriously address these issues. “I didn’t know” just won’t cut it when you are talking about 20 years.

    The big speech was loved by the media and the Obama supporters, but based on the primaries other than NC, Oregon and Montana, I don’t think the other voters bought it. Oregon is the only state he’ll win of those three.

  69. Yes, Teresa. They will go for the (half-threatening) sentimental draw: “You want to fulfill MLK’s dream, don’t you? (if not, you are a racist.)” It’s so laughably orchestrated.

    They will also go after McCain’s past resistance to establishing the MLK holiday. Of course, he and Hillary are the ones who commemorated his assassinating earlier this year, while Obama was off doing something more important. You know, he’s (half) black… he didn’t need to go. This guy is milking his race as an excuse like there’s no tomorrow.

  70. javacitypal – aint seen that here so maybe ask somebody who actually said it?

  71. I am fervently praying and hoping that divine providence somehow will reveal itself and she’lll still be the nominee. Some might laugh at me for saying so. But the times when she was counted out, she managed to come back because some uncontrolled events came to the light. I am hoping for similar things. August is two months away. So many things can happen.


  72. Again, thanks for this blog, it feels like a warm flannel blanket on a cold winter night… For weeks I have been waiting for the shoe to drop on Barry and HRC would be on the way to the White House. Now it is such a let down, I seem to be feeling blah..

    It is nice know that all of the people here have a mind of their own. I have often questioned myself, I never went along with the crowd. As I have gotten older I realized I had a mind of my own, I do not to need to drink the kool-aide.

    Now we have several of the other blog writers who supported HRC 100%, not two minutes after her speech going full force to support Barry. I find it to be very hypocritical and such a let down.

    There is a nice post by Susan at No Quarter along this same line a very nice read.

  73. I havent see anybody say they were supporting barack here, Laney.

  74. Please watch this you tube.

    Obama is George W. Bush in Democrats clothing:

  75. sorry – meant to say. I did see Jeralyn Merrit at Talkleft say it – but she isnt a hypocrite. She always said she would support the nominee and I respect her for her opinion.

  76. Teresa, that’s true; I had forgotten about McCain’s adopted daughter. Playing that race card only worked for Bush & the Repubs against McCain. Having to endure the SC race card will only help McCain soon. Pretty funny, huh?

    Insert appropriate cliche here, e.g., what goes around comes around, every dog has his day….

  77. Katiebird,

    I love this post! I wrote a huge long comment about Kerry and Vietnam and then I accidentally hit the back button and lost the whole thing. I’m too pooped to type it out again. I’m sure someone else has said it better. Barack Obama is like Kerry without the substance. He’s a snobby, arrogant, elitist, but has no experience in the military or the Senate and very little knowledge of foreign affairs. We are supposed to think he’s qualified because of his major as an undergrad! He is going to be ripped apart by the Republicans and I’m going to sit passively by and watch it. I was told long ago that my vote isn’t needed.

  78. My mother, a life-long Democratic activist, reported today that all five of her fellow Democratic campaign co-workers she met for lunch today were not going to vote for Obama. My mother will call her local Democratic party office and ask how to write in Hillary’s name. I like the fact that she will make a personal contact.

    Is this a trend? If so, the supers might want to think twice before casting their votes.

    I volunteered and donated and donated and got everyone else I could to donate to Kerry’s campaign. He was a weak candidate but someone I respected. I have zero respect for Obama. Axelrod’s disturbing campaign of racism and sexism crossed the line for me. The Dems I have cared most for in my life have been the Clintons. Watching the so-called “leadership” allow them to be trashed and then rigging the nomination was beyond disgusting. Unfortunately, I never saw their chosen one show any evidence of integrity. Words, just Axelrod’s reused words.

    Hilliary has been elevated to sainthood by Dean & Pelosi. She is going to be the most powerful person in the Democratic Party. Barry stands or falls on his own. At some point he has to take responsibility for his life. He’s about 47. It’s time to grow up.

    I’ve unsubscribed to the DNC and Democratic Party emails asking for unity and money today and told them why! Not one cent or one minutes of my time for Bama.


  79. Tabbycat – Thanks for finding me downstairs, that’s me and blogging, one level off.
    WigWag – Thanks for the hopes on the RA treatment, unfortunately Mayo Clinic just reclassified my case as refractory, pretty much treatment resistent. But that’s another story.

    My question to all of you smart folks is this. How far do you think we can push McCain to sincerely pursue our votes through attention to women’s issues? Hate to word it as just women, really for all Hillary supporters.

    McCain doesn’t scare me or creep me out the Unbama does.

  80. Honora & Mawn, I love that, PUMAs are Chemotherapy. By nuking it our party, we are essentially saving it. Love it.

    PUMA POWER! Growl loud are growl long!

  81. boston boomer – no, we’re supposed to buy into him because he has no history to attack. Clean slate.

    I dont buy it, but the DNC sold it.

  82. Rebel Angel”08, I don’t think we’re asking/.pushing McCain for anything since most of us aren’t planning to vote for him.

    We’re either writing in Hillary’s name, voting for 3rd party or staying home.

  83. She hit the glass ceiling pretty hard … and I hope a few fragments break loose and land in their cheerios.

  84. Hello All! Had a lot of work to do and had to go into my second job, glad when all the school is over for everybody and I can have normal hours…

    Anyway, I thought there were some nuances in her speech that made me feel better. Am I the only one who heard it, or am I too late to post on that?

  85. I couldn’t vote for Senator Obama if my nose was sewn shut. To do so would be to condone all the things his campaign did in the primaries, the abominably misogynistic and biased media coverage, the horribly flawed caucuses, the machinations and corruption of the Democratic Party hierarchy, and the Rules and Bylaws Committee’s thievery in particular.

    If the Democratic Party accepts as legitimate the kind of things is criticizes the Republicans for, then it has become the thing it purports to oppose, and that will be much worse for the country in the long run than a John McCain one term presidency could ever be.

  86. Rebel Angel “one level off”. That’s cute. I almost always find myself chatting alone or hitting refresh waiting on new comments. I forget to check for new posts.

    Mawm, I’m confused about whether you are Gary or not. I know you switched user names for the last part of the live blog last week and you posted as Mawm. Who are you now? 🙂

  87. We must not let the DNC get away with this!

  88. I too decided that the nose holding vote ended with Kerry. Not because the medals, but because of his “not crying in my teacup about stolen elections”. I had to overcome this statement. And after I voted for him, he folded like cheap furniture, giving our votes away.
    And, for all the contempt I have for Kerry. B0 is far, far bellow him – in every single way. (and come November shenanigans would fold even faster)

  89. the young judith,

    I don’t buy it either. I think you have to be either really young or really inexperienced with politics to buy into that. Like KOS and the Open Left guys, early 30s, and pretty unsophisticated about politics. The comparison to JFK is incredibly insulting. JFK was a WWII hero and served in the house and Senate for close to 12 years before he ran. He had lived in Europe and lived in London as a young man when WWII was building up. He had a degree from the London School of Economics. He was also several years younger than BO, 42. The comparison just doesn’t hold up. BO has literally accomplished almost nothing meaningful except to write those two books.

  90. Dr. June Beamer,

    Welcome to The Confluence. I hope you’re still here. You are in the right place, so please keep commenting.

  91. Hi Kim,

    I’d like to hear your reactions to Hillary’s speech. I thought she made it pretty clear that, while she will support him, she expects him to deal with her issues and she’s holding on to her delegates. What did you notice?

  92. SM – My first instinct was to sit it out too, but it just doesn’t feel right. We all have to be careful about writing in Hilliary’s name because of state election laws, that’s on my to do list of research in MN.

    I’m not a troll and I hope that’s not your first thought. If too many of us just sit it out than Obama can make it to POTUS. I’ve been lurking here and at TL for months, I just got up the courage to post. So my question is serious.

    I don’t scare easily, but Obama and even more Axelrod , scare the hell out of me. I’d just rather see McCain pushed more toward the center because I see him as only 4 years. Hilliary will still be viable in 4 years, but I think it would be damned hard in 8 years. The “sell by date for women” seems to be about 22 years of age now.

  93. bostonboomer – I dont think you have to be young – you have to be into imagery and “freshness”: That is what the JFK thing is all about –

    I dont hate Obama like other people do here – I hate what was doen in thia campaign. i dont know how much of that came from him but I know he let it happen.

  94. What I loved about Hillary’s speech is that it was still about us, her supporters, and the journey we have been on together. Yes, she did what she had to do for him and I thought she even sounded genuine (maybe she is a way bigger person than I am and truly means it), but she held us at the center of that speech and tried to soothe us, especially when she talked about equality for women.

    She is my hero.

    But my vote is my own, and I am perfectly happy to sit on my bottom on November 4th. There is no candidate worthy of the effort.

  95. Yes, Hillary is a bigger person than most. She rocks.

  96. My vote for McCain is not a protest vote. I am very concerned about a potential Obama presidency. I think we should all be scared of the candidate the media is pushing on us.

  97. Rebel, it really depends on what state you are in. I am in a red state…my vote really cannot change the outcome in this state. I will show up to vote downticket as there will be a contested Governor’s race, but I see no point in holding my nose when it can’t even change the outcome.

    Folks in swing states have a harder dilemma and I do not envy the decision making. If I believed that Obama would be better than McCain, I would hold my nose and vote for him if I was in a swing state. But I am truly not sure who would be worse – neither of them inspire any confidence from me. When people talk about McCain and Roe v. Wade, my natural inclination is to ask about Obama’s vote for the Cheney energy bill. Obama voted for it, McCain voted against it, like Hillary…so how can you say that he is really more evvviiil than Obama on every issue? He isn’t. There is nothing in Obama’s record to indicate that he would stand up for progressive values. McCain won’t either, by and large, but at least I know who he is and what I am fighting against.. There are pros and cons…

  98. JJ, I’m in the really red part of TN. We haven’t had a Democratic congressman in 200 years. The guy running against Lamar Alexander doesn’t have a prayer (besides, he is a big Obama supporter) and there is no Gov race this year.

    Obama has zero chance here so I can sit home and not worry about it. It will be the first time I’ve done that though.

  99. You simply must see the first photo in this slide show. We have never before seen a female American leader shown like this:


  100. Kerry was a loser – and an unnecessary loser – but he had help.

    If you’ll recall, Kerry’s disappointed rival Howard Dean delivered a rather grudging “unity speech” to the 2004 Convention on a Tuesday, Kerry accepted the nomination on a Thursday, and by Sunday Dean had upstaged Kerry with an unsustainable accusation that a recent terror alert was politically motivated … pushing Kerry out of the national spotlight and denying him part of the tradition “convention bounce”.

  101. If were McCain were president and lots of democrats were elected to the senate and congress, wouldn’t that be the best check and balance system? A heavily democrat senate would keep McCain’s more Bush like policies in check and may be even push some of the democratic agenda through.

    Just a thought for those who do not wish to vote Obama but are afraid of four more years of republican policies.

  102. I was convinced that in the 2006 elections all the Dems running sounded like Repubs. I reluctantly voted straight ticket being the “good” Dem that I was. I somewhat naively believed that they ran like Repubs to get elected but would actually vote Dem on issues. I don’t have to hold my nose to vote for a Repub. I voted for a whole closet full of them last time. If I decide to vote this time I will at least vote for the politicians HONEST enough to have an R by their name.

  103. JJ – Thanks for your reply. Since I live in Minnesota (Oh, Uffda land if you remember the movie Fargo) it’s bad, because it really could go for Obama. After all we gave Jesse Ventura to the world!

    As to Roe v Wade, I just can’t see McCain opening that can of worms in 4 years. Maybe I’m wrong on that, don’t know. All I know is that I refuse to vote for Obama, there’s something not right in his personality.
    Excuse me for being crude, but to me he’s like Frankenstein’s monster. He’s stitched himself together out of so many conflicting parts that he seems to be “whoever had him last”. That’s why he creeps me out. There just doesn’t seem to be a sincere bone in his body.

  104. RebelAngel’08 – no, you don’t sound like a troll, we have great troll-dar here. As far as women’s issues go, I know McCain is anti-choice, he was neutral about it long ago but I wouldn’t worry about that.

    If Roe v Wade had the chance to be overturned, it would have been with Dubya. So it ain’t going nowhere and don’t let the Kool-Aid cult convince you otherwise.

    For what they’re worth, we have a Democratic Congress & Senate is almost going that way too. Not that they’ve done anything major except stall, but they will not turn over Roe v Wade.

    As conservative as they may be now, Roe v Wade has precedence, in lawyer terms, that it was instituted in the past and it has served for the common good of the population (70% of the nation is pro-choice).

    So no worries.

  105. Like the bowling idea brought up on another thread, now if someone can find a pin, banner, or badge I would wear or post while bowling.

    They do not realize how deep the resentment is; have been a Democrat for 40 years. Voted for Democrat for president in every election since 1968. Cannot in good conscience vote for the least qualified person I have ever seen run. Even Quayle was more qualified (that is saying a lot). Lived in SoCal for decades which provides an opportunity to vote for indivduals of various backgrounds and ethnicities if you are a Democrat. It is not the ethnicity, it is the missing experience.

  106. I was wondering why even after Hillary’s great speech, I couldn’t feel any enthusiasm for Obama.

    Hillary Clinton made the most compelling case ever FOR Obama, better than Obama himself ever did, but it left me cold.

    I then read this from Hillary diehard Heidi Li Feldman:

    I then had a chance to attend a smaller reception hosted by the Clintons after this speech. I had the opportunity to really speak with Senator Clinton, to tell her that she has my enduring support for her next political choices. I told her that many would be pleased that she has not shut the door on the Democratic Party: by suspending her campaign, not ending it, she remains available should the Party decide to call upon her.

    I listened in a small group as President Clinton – who beamed with pride as Senator Clinton’s speech – said that he doubted this would be her final national political campaign.

    And I took the opportunity to thank some of the more major politicos at the event for their steadfast loyalty to Senator Clinton: something that has been so ridiculously rare during the course of this campaign.

    My favorite comment from one such figure: “Loyalty is not transferable.” Precisely.

    Now I understand what was going on with me: Loyalty is not transferable.

  107. If McCain cheated his way through the Republican primary I would not vote for him either. Got to draw the line somewhere. If I can’t trust Obama, who cares what he stands for? He’ll throw anything and anyone out the door if it means more money and power for himself. Some people are just selfish bastards who live to be served by others, and not to serve others.

  108. Ordinarily, I wouldn’t think my vote would count for much in MA, but Obama isn’t doing well in the polls here. I think Obama is at best another Dukakis. He will lose a lot of states that Kerry won. Depending on what happens in the “summer of revelations,” Obama could be another Mondale and carry only his home state. He won the primaries with mostly AA’s, rich suburbanites, and young people. I don’t think he will win back enough white women, older people, or working people. He’s insulted those groups too much. Latinos will probably go for McCain over Obama too. I’ll have to decide what I’m going to do when I see how MA is trending in Nov.

  109. This election is now about a choice between two evils, and thus far, BHO hasn’t made the case that he is better than McCain. In fact, his campaign and his despicable supporters have only demonstrated how low they are willing to go to achieve power. If they want to win the election, then they will have to do it without my vote or support.

  110. Great article Katiebird. I think when you come right down to it Kerry was a sacrificial candidate against a then popular incumbent in the middle of a then popular war. I remember the phrase used about not changing horses in the middle of a stream. Other than that I really don’t think Kerry was any smarter than Bush. They both went Yale had about the same GPA belonged to the same secret fraternity. Bush also seems to have the better sense of humor and I would much rather party with G.W. than a dour Kerry. After nearly 40 years of holding my nose to candidates hand picked by the boys in the smoked filled back rooms of the DNC, like you I have finally run out of clothes pins and I will not buy anymore. I like and respect J McCain though I don’t agree with all his ideas. Most importantly I believe he will not cause as much damage to the country as BO will. I can live with a guy who can compromise and work with Democrats.

    The question is what do we do now? http://blog.pumapac.org/

  111. Hey, JavaCityPal and NotThatStupid-good to see you here! Though I don’t think we’re not welcome at TL. I think Jeralyn will expand on her comments when she’s back from that conference. But Riverdaughter is wonderful to host us dissenters here, I just wish there was a reply function.

    Joan in VA

  112. I remember expressing my disappointment about Kerry to a Democratic volunteer around Oct 2004. The volunteer chimed that he agreed with me, but Kerry was the only choice. Doing what I always did for every POTUS election, I got in line and voted for the loser. As bad as Kerry was, I KNEW Americans would not vote for Bush again. Americans would be smarter in 2004 and would not be hoodwinked. Kerry lost to Bush, but Kerry was better than Obama. In fact every Democratic loser, from H.H.H. to Kerry was a better candidate than Obama. Where does that put Obama? The worst part is that Obama was chosen against the best candidate we’ve had since FDR. I mean that. She demonstrated to the end her ability to collect votes where it mattered. I will not be hoodwinked or bamboozled and vote for NoBama. I got a call from the DNC today. Told them I did not support the DNC since it stabbed Hillary, and not to call me again. It felt good.

  113. BostonBoomer, you got that right, Latinos will vote for McCain because he’s a strong supporter of the Latino community with regards to immigration – that’s one of the reasons Republicans hate him so much.

  114. BB: I don’t know but the tone that she spoke his name was almost loud rather than meaningful. And when she talked about us, the women, it felt more like she knew where we stood. Then when she talked about his campaign, she talked about hers first. When the boos were shouted she didn’t flinch at all.

    I have it tivo’d on both TV’s, so I am gonna watch it over and over, the first time I was crying from the time she walked into the building until she left.

  115. I’m a Hispanic (Nicaragua born) and I expect McCain to carry the Latino vote. It will be close, but it wouldn’t have been close with Hillary.

  116. I just got an EM from WesPac. I campaigned for him, NOT KERRY. But like KB, Iheld my nose and voted for Kerry. I loved seeing him with Hillary, knowing that she had someone beside her who COULD get us out if Iraq. He asked for my support and I em’d back and said I could not, and would not support the Barack Obama.

  117. Look what I found in the spam filter. We’ve been absolved by “Laurel,” who has been trying to lecture us all day long today. She says our votes aren’t needed. See? They can win without us, so everything is just fine.

    And yet, all of this PUMA crap is still completely irrelevant. We (normal, thinking Democrats) don’t need your votes, we don’t care whether you’re wearing panties, what their condition is, or whether or not you’re voting. We don’t want you. And, more importantly, we don’t need you or your votes. Still, it’s been fun to try to bring you a few facts to dismiss. No really, I’m going now. A friend just pointed out that it’s mean to tease people like you so I swear, this is my last post. Good luck on all that outrage stuff.

  118. Got one from Harry Reid too-Bastard

  119. People are going to make their own choice about who to vote for. Everyone comes to that decision in different ways. For me, I want to stop Obama, and stop his corrupting influence on the Democratic party. Therefore, I will vote for McCain. I can’t just sit home, or write in Hillary. Voter suppression is how Obama wins.

  120. Laural seems to be implying that we are mentally challenged too. Way to go, Laurel. They just can’t help it, can they. They really want to win without us, but of course when BO goes down in flames, they will blame us be totally outraged, forgetting that they repeatedly told us we were stupid and not needed.

  121. I’m with you Mawm, if we stay home, Obama may win by default.

  122. I saw this everywhere. No matter what we do, Obama will lose. America will not vote for BO as President. That’s, that. So, resigned with a McCain Presidency – I look at the silver-lining.

    If we vote for McCain, if we some of us get involved with his campaign, then the upside will be that McCain will have to listen to us, he will have to the door open to what our needs our. The Republicans need to get rid of their wing-nuts, the influence especially of the Religious Right. We need more moderate Republicans as future choices because I no longer want to hold my nose and vote for the least evil of the evils.

    I’ve been a Democrat for most of my life, and may continue to do so, and I know that both parties need reform. Perhaps it’s not our time, because our candidate,Clinton, who would have brought our nation back on our feet has been denied this opportunity by her own back-stabbing party. Perhaps it’s the moderate Republican’s time to take back their own party from their neo-con hijackers, and if so, the McCain Democrats will have a role.

  123. Save the em and send it back to her on the 5th of November

  124. Kim,

    I had a funny feeling about the way she yelled out his name too. I think she was calling him out on every important issue, to let him know that she expects him to act on each of them in return for her support. I also liked it when she mentioned the only two term president the Democrats have had since FDR.

  125. Gosh darn, I hate the patriarchy.

  126. I liked John Kerry’s wife and daughters. They drew me in more than him but I really wanted him to win. I got over that loss much easier than I did Gore’s or this one, though. Now, Kerry is on my sh*t list after a very sick Bill Clinton tried so hard to help him.

  127. Mawm and Kim, thanks. You’re what I’m looking for. I don’t want to deeply regret a vote for McCain and guess I came here looking for some support for my idea.

  128. CNN right now live – the 13 year old girl who was mentioned in Hillary’s speech. 🙂 🙂 🙂

  129. Hey, anyone interested in a pushback campaign against the media, TheCityEdition.com has organized a public pressure blitz against the Senate Commerce Committee to get it hold hearings on FCC and anti-trust violations by ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX, CNN, Time and Newsweek. For more info, a sample letter to Sen. Boxer and contact links for all committee members, please visit the website. Here’s a direct URL to the page.



  130. I saw that BO was unelectable when I worked on his campaign. NO TO ALL THE NEWBIES, I found an antidote to the koolaid, and that was voter response.

    I am not just worried about the current state of events, but underlying issues. Now remember I am in the deep south, but on the local news, we have had two incidents since his “coronation” that are very very scary.

  131. Boston, are you for real?? The Laurel from the other day who’s also another name?

    WHY is it that they follow us here to this site? We’ve already left all the other ones!


    We are going to fight the corruption in the DNC – by voting (or un-voting) every empty suit who collaborated in the RAPE of DEMOCRACY.

    We’re in friggin Tatooween (sp?) and the Imperial forces still wish to fight.

    And fight we will!

    P arty
    U nity
    M y
    A ss!!!

  132. I am with Mawm. If I have to hold my nose anyway why should I validate Obama and his cronies in the DNC. Neither one is a good choice but my intent is to send a message, to Donna B, Dean, Kennedy, Kerry, Edwards, Byrd, and all those other fops who came out to support the lamest candidate in years. It is visceral for me. (as I am sitting here with a bag of popcorn)

  133. I thought I was the only one who liked his wife better than him. When Theersa Kerry told them to fuck off, I loved it. She had bigger balls that he did.

  134. YRM, you must be dreaming. The Democrats will not hold hearings about the traditional media campaign reporting.

  135. Kim — Yup. I gave darn near a year of my life to Clark’04. Unsubscribed from WesPAC yesterday.

  136. No way I am holding my nose for BHO. He and Donkey Brazire can win without me. I am in full-tilt boogie on my own blog now. My anger cannot be fully expressed in words but I can tell you it will be expressed at the ballot box in November.

    Just say no to the Obamanation.

  137. Question: Why the hell can’t the DNC “hold their nose” and give us the legitimate, electable candidate? WTF?!

    We are in the midst of a damn recession and these asshats decided to fuck us over for their own petty power play.

  138. BB: It was more than that, there was a time when she was endorsing him and she highlited her own accomplishment rather than his. I will watch it again tonight and let you know exactly what I am talking about, but it WAS the way she called his name and there was just a nuance of something.

  139. Laurel left because someone in her house told her she was way past her bedtime.

  140. txpolitico67, I love that: Donkey Brazire! HA!

  141. Pat, I think you’re right about voting for McCain. If too many people stay home, it may turn the election towards Obama.

  142. Davidson, no kidding. Crissake, I did not live through the last 8 years so they could stick me with a man of almost 50 who has never held a full-time job before, those stupid hacks.

  143. Is it possible that the Huff Po will never run short of confetti?

  144. Clark and all of Hillary’s close friends have to endorse him right now. If he implodes, they have to have behaved themselves so that they might let Hillary take over.

    I’m starting to believe that Bill and her close advisors do want her to be VP. It would be historical, for sure, but I have really mixed feelings about that. She will take all the heat off Obama, or at least the media heat. I don’t want to see that.

    If it happens, I want to know the truth. Do they really want her or do they just want her voters? Does she really want it or is she being pressured? If she is asked and accepts, I’ll bet the party leaders will defend her then from the sexism. Kind of like Dean did in that article BTD had today. He didn’t know it until someone showed him a video of it? Give me a break Howard.

  145. Did you miss me? I’m back. I had to run to the store and it took a lot longer than I thought it should.

    And then it took even longer to get caught up with comments.

    One of my favorites:

    ronkseattle: “She hit the glass ceiling pretty hard … and I hope a few fragments break loose and land in their cheerios.”

  146. I’m for divided government at this time too. We all know what happened with the Republicans controlling the presidency, congress, and the Senate. I don’t trust what would happen with a Democratic house and senate lead by Obama. Obama’s judgement is seriously impaired. John McCain will balance this out of control Democratic party, and only bipartisan legislation will get through.

    I trusted Hillary Clinton of this, because I watched Bill Clinton take on Democrats when he disagreed with them. It is probably for this quality that many Democrats have held a grudge against him.

  147. Arianna and Taylor Marsh are in this for their won benefit.

  148. I am getting closer to actually going McCain. I can’t stand him either but they need to see that this is no joke. When you put someone up there with nothing more to offer than 1/2 term in the Senate and then steal enough votes on his behalf to proclaim the winner, how could anyone of us in all good conscience place a stamp of approval on this? I have not been to confession in a couple of years and when I do I do not want to drag this sin of commission in there with me.

  149. Laurel, send that post to the DNC, you’ll get a high paying job out of it. “we don’t need no stinkin’ voters!” is the anthem of decades of hapless dem losers.

    ‘No, really, elections depend on VOTERS? That’s crazy Republican talk.’

  150. Aye, still a big fan of Teresa’s. Of all of ’em, she’s the one I’d most like to have a beer with. Come to think of it, I did.

  151. katiebird: I missed you. We all did.

  152. You know the said thing is I feel at a loss as to where I go from here. I have always subscribed to the Nation, The Progressive, read Huff Po, watched Bill Maher religiously and now, I am like a flea on a yella dawg only there aint no damn dawg.

  153. Pat, I’m so glad you’re here. I need some laughs 🙂

    katie, I always miss you. I though you said you had to run to the stove and I wondered what you were cooking that took so long. You can tell I hate my glasses and don’t wear them.

    Kim, a large goup of my in-laws are boycotting Heinz now and they loved Theresa too. I don’t even know if the Heinz family still owns Heinz but these people are dead serious. And they have never read a blog so don’t let anyone tell us that it’s only the internet supporters who are mad.

  154. MABlue, on June 7th, 2008 at 10:27 pm Said:

    Hillary Clinton made the most compelling case ever FOR Obama, better than Obama himself ever did, but it left me cold.

    I agree that she made a better case for him than he has ever made for himself, which made me even angrier than I already was.

  155. Don’t get me wrong. I have not intention of venturing out there to defend McCain against his attackers. He will provide many reasons enough for attack. But I have no intention of defending Obama either. I would not be able to live with myself. Besides, my wrists would probably fall off.

  156. {{Pat}} (blinking)

    Mawm? Is Gary around? I don’t think I’ve seen him since Sunday. Is he OK. I miss him. Please give him a hug for me.

  157. Kim,

    ” I am like a flea on a yella dawg only there aint no damn dawg”.

    sounds like enlightenment.

  158. I have to vote for Obama. But there’s a question that’s still nagging at me. Which part of Obama’s speeches does his supporters enjoy most: the shallow rhetoric or the meaningless drivel?

  159. Kim, I’m also at a loss. I love to read mysteries/thrillers like Lisa Scottoline, James Patterson,John Sanford, Lee Childs. Anyone have any recommendations? I don’t like science fiction.

  160. katiebird,

    He wrote something this morning. I think it got lost in all the other posts.

  161. Oh, Mawm — I totally missed it (we were out mowing lawns most of the day). I’ll go back and look.

  162. Davidson,
    YOU ROCK, I could not have said it better!!! Of course, I would not have used your exact words, so it would not have had the same impact…

  163. Agree with the assessment he would be terrible. When you start negotiating by letting the other side know you will capitulate you will get less than parity on any policy. That is the problem with go along to get along politicians like Senator Obama. Never saw an issue he could not surrender.

  164. tabbycat, have you read Nancy Pickard’s The Virgin of Small Plains?

  165. My metamorphis as an Obamabot:

    “He really does know his national affairs. He can name the capitals of all 57 states.”

    “He loves the poor. Just look at how well he did in Chicago. Not that many froze to death in his district!”

    “Of course he appeals to women. Those smackdowns were only in fun!”

    “I trust his judgment. It’s his friends and associates I worry about.”

    “Louis Farrakhan does not scare me. Look at how well he dresses!”

    “I personally respect Michele. She is just taken out of context. And if she was taken into a room, she is the one who comes out. You can be assured of that.”

    “Hillary who? I am now onboard. Thank you Keith, if not for you where would we be?”

  166. Tabby: I’ve read alot of those, but since I had to leave Legal Aid and go into private practice (now that I am single and putting kids through school), I see way too many criminals to want to read about them. Lately, I have just been watching movies and wandering around muttering because I am so pissed off.

  167. Tabbycat – I read the same type of books. Have you tried: Greg Iles, Harlan Coben or William Kent Krueger?

  168. Greg Iles is really good and his settings are usually in the South.

  169. Pat Johnson, on June 7th, 2008 at 10:59 pm Said:
    Don’t get me wrong. I have not intention of venturing out there to defend McCain against his attackers. He will provide many reasons enough for attack. But I have no intention of defending Obama either. I would not be able to live with myself. Besides, my wrists would probably fall off.

    pat, that is funny and honest. I agree. I dont want to see a lot of ageist crap and a lof of racist crap – but I gotta tune it out becasue I know I have no control over it.

  170. @Melanie: Right. Obama is not even qualified for the job. I mean, we’re in an absolute mess and we’re going to send someone with no leadership experience or accomplishments to speak of and an absolutely disturbing level of ignorance and entitlement?

    Honestly, his remarks on Jerusalem the other day had me terrified of him in office. The man is clueless! I feel all the more committed to voting McCain. And if the DNC thinks stealing the nomination and giving it to Obama is part of some brilliant long-term strategy let me just say: when everything goes to hell in a hand basket the Democratic Congress will be blamed and voted out. Congratulations, fools!

  171. Pat you forgot one thing, the people he knew are just not the people he knew.

  172. I was not a Hillary supporter in the beginning and I thought the party need to be punished over a year ago. I was already considering not voting for the first time…

    Now, it’s firm. How can I vote for this creep? And the DNC acted shamelessly. I cannot in good conscience enable all this. They have really pissed me off for good. On Monday, I’m dropping my party registration….

  173. I’m voting for McCain because I think he will be a better president than BO could ever be. Plus, BO hangs around some unsavory characters that would be pulling his strings.

    It’s just not a good idea to elect as President of the United States a man who is almost 50 years old and never accomplished anything of note or even held a full-time job.

  174. I mean, really Rezko gets indicted and Obama says, “Thats just not the Tony I knew.”

    Rev. Wright goes apeshit, and again, “Thats not the guy I knew.”

    Father Pflegler the same.

    WTF, Does this guy know anything about anybody he knows?

  175. davidson, I hear ya. But the GOP on iraq and iran scare me, too. they are nuts and they have learned nothing from their mistakes.

  176. My feeling that Hillary Clinton comes out the winner in all this anyway. Time will not look kindly on this campaign in the end and I doubt her supporters, like us, will let it die.

    My fondest dream is for the media, particularly MSNBC and the crockpot of idiots who have delighted in shaping this race, will all live to see a turnaround. My particular fantasy is that moron KO doing a “special comment” about Obama one day. I will then rest in peace.

  177. Kim: They are all in disguise. Not his fault. And like we have come to realize, not much is.

  178. The thing that I found so worrisome when I worked on his campaign was that the focus would be taken off the issues at hand, Iraq, Afghanistan, economy, housing, the laundry list Bush has left us with and race would become the biggest issue, and like I said, I am in the deep south, and in the past two days we have had families threatened.

  179. Pat you got that right, he has copped out on everything.

  180. Kim,

    Whose families were threatened?

  181. It is just local news, but since his nomination, two bi-racial familes were threatened with. . . well I don’t want to mention that old southern thing, but it made the news and I found it odd, that this starts two days after his nomination. When I phone banked for him last year, the comments from some people were bad.

  182. By Monday we will be free of the Hillary bashing. They will be turning their limited attention onto McCain and Obama. It won’t be long before we know just who the MSM will full out support.

    No scrutiny of Obama will get much attention since the MSM will not want to admit error. It will have to be up to Obama to goof up and they will hard pressed to ignore.

  183. Judith, the neocons scare me on Iraq and Iran. McCain not so much. And we are at a critical juncture, do we end up with two corporatist parties and no one to represent us or do we send their hand picked nominee to defeat. Democrats have been no better on economic issues for the middle class; usury laws no longer viable, concentration of media (print and broadcast), concentration of telecommunications, regressive tax structure, and changes to IRS tax codes that take away benefits to the middle class while extending tax codes that favor the wealthy. Does not even get to the selling of the commons by both parties to the detriment of society (copyright, fair use, parks, federal land, etc.)

  184. Actually, judging by the campaign message, obama seems all about him – hard to know anyone if all you talk about is yourself.

  185. katie, I haven’t read that. I’ll look for it.

    Angel, I have read every Iles and Coben book. I haven’t read Krueger. Maybe you have intoduced me to a new author! I get tired of waiting on new books from my old favorites. Thank you.

  186. I’m also voting for McCain (unless Hillary is the nominee through some act of god, goddess, or the dems show some latent intelligence). I want Obama beaten by the highest margin we can muster.
    A message needs to be sent that the democratic party can not behave as disgustingly as it has this season. Obama is toxic.

  187. I’m voting for McCain too – but I have a bad feeling that the DNC will think it was racist and not recognize the problems they have.

  188. Kim,

    I believe that because Obama trivialized racism in this primary it has set back race relations and emboldened some individuals to act out.

  189. Pat, we won’t be totally free of Hillary bashing unless he publicly turns her down for VP to the delight of the media. She needs to get on her knees and beg and then he can tell her she is qualified enough, and it’s really not her fault, but she is too divisive.

  190. tabbycat, Nancy’s books are great and I loved The Virgin of Small plains but from the list of authors you mentioned you might like her Marie Lightfoot books more. I should disclose that she’s one of my best friends, but her books have won tons of awards. It’s not just me who likes them.

  191. tabbycat: Have you read Ruth Rendell? I would highly recommend.

  192. Last night I had the heat on since it was cold and damp. Tonight I have the a/c on because it is hot and humid. Love NE weather!

  193. What I cannot understand, is how the Obamatons justify this blindness they suffer from, Pfleger has insulted Catholics, BO’s policy on Israel has been questioned, his Pastor has insulted white Americans and Americans in general, his wife has never been proud of her country, and when they start spouting his glory, I want to scream!!!!

  194. What is going on with the Obama messianics, the DNC, and their enabling pundits/bloggers now is exactly what occurs with wife-beating or child-abusing spouses.

    They are begging their victims to come home, please give them another chance, while at the same time blaming the victim for the situation.

    They beat, kick, denigrate,verbally torture, and try to psychologically enslave their victims. They feel all powerful until someone or something intercedes and they feel they are losing their power over said victims.

    Then they grovel, cajole, and beg for another chance, while still intermittently harassing their victims if the persuasion seems not to be working.

    Wise or rescued victims never return to their clutches, remove them from their lives, and avoid them like the plague. just as we shall.

    The resolve and common goal of Clinton supporters is shelter for us. We do not have to deal with the psychoactive projections of the Obama minions.

    We shall avoid them like the plague, while understanding their psychosis is not our problem!

    Obama cannot and will not win and his abusive, insufferable, supporters and enablers know it! We hold the keys!

  195. ooo, Pat — Ruth Rendell is very scary…

  196. Dkos isn’t even being original. Anyone who isn’t going to vote Obama MUST BE A RACIST. I kid you not. Go feel free to read some of the responses to nyceve’s diary.

    Oh and No Quarter is apparently filled with racists too.

    I can’t believe I ever had anything in common with some of these folks. They’re unreal.

  197. Did Carter actually say today that if people don’t vote for Obama they are racist?

  198. I want a PUMA T-shirt!!!!

    Who is selling?

  199. katiebird: I love her! Another fave is William Trevor. Not widely read over here but he is great. Was the author of “Felicity’s Journey” which had some play over here. Am reading the new James Frey book now. Excellent so far.

  200. hoosier –

    sorry, but your disctinction between Mccain and neocons doesnt work for me.

    But anyway – what is your take on environmental laws? McCain is against anything that raises costs for corporate america and the GOP has destroyed a vast number of portections laws – and mccain will not bring those back. You ok with that?

  201. @formerhoosier–That’s pretty much what I was saying way up top. Why do we need two identical parties? I doubt that the Dems will even understand why when O loses, but we need to keep our voices loud and clear, even if it’s only on the internet, because the traditional media has lost all analytical ability.

  202. I glanced over at TalkLeft, I’m not even logged in anymore and I’m going to pretend I forgot my password because I fear I’m unable to be nice, but McCain apparently has a song to woo us.

    Remember ABBA?

    If you change your mind,
    I’m the first in line
    Honey I’m still free
    Take a chance on me

    LOL! Cracked me up.

  203. The Dem Party needs a cleansing according to Joseph Cannon. I concur. Only a November defeat will provide that.

  204. geez, i cant type. sorry.

  205. I like reading talkleft – BTD is pretty cool.

  206. Could any other candidate have the issues Obama has had and survive this long?

  207. tabbycat: you might want to try the Tony Hill series by Val McDermid. They’re the basis for the “Wire in the Blood”series on BBC. And I’m sure you already know about Ann Rule’s true crime, not everyone’s cuppa, but she does it very well.

  208. Can relate Kim, his pastor denigrated my heritage (3rd generation Italian) and the MSM (MCM) ignored the response from the Order of Sons of Italy. Usually do not use hyphenated heritage since all of us were descendants of immigrants from somewhere but hard to miss bigotry when it stares you in the face.

  209. I guess a huge problem I have with Obama is that he cannot take responsibility for anything negative, but is all too happy to take credit for anything positive even when he doesn’t deserve it (like when he pretended he wrote that bill that Dodd wrote). I mean, how can it be that there are SO many characters that Obama knew for 20 years who are not the people he thought they were? That doesn’t happen to me in my own life, does it happen in yours? And instead of accepting responsibility, he just blames Fox news or the voters or email or Hillary Clinton. THIS is why I don’t want Hillary to be his VP. She is deserving of any position she wants, but I fear that she will serve as a foil – the media will continue to abuse her (or maybe the DNC will step in and demand that the little woman be respected since she has decided to be subservient to the messiah), while letting him get off free. And frankly, I think that is bad for any candidate, Dem or Republican, even candidates that I adore. That is what happened with Bush – no accountability – and he went wild. Obama exhibits the same signs of arrogance that Bush does and I want him to be held accountable as any politician should be. He shows no command of issues and he has gotten a pass on mistake after mistake because Hillary was in the race. Let’s see what happens now that she is technically out of the race.

  210. Pat, 🙂

  211. BB: Are you still on?

  212. @The Young Judith: Listen, it’s up to the Democratic Congress to do its damn job! With McCain you know he’s horrible, but with Obama how can you not know he’ll be worse? His ignorance is shocking, combined with profound entitlement (read: the man is power hungry and nothing more) and a slew of Democratic “leaders” surrounding him, prostituting themselves for greater access to power and it’s a catastrophe in the making.

    And I consider my vote a “tough love” measure: the bigger the landslide, the more these parasites will be blasted and removed from power.

    @Kim: First, I think the local media is trying to push a narrative because it sells. Second, most white resentment out there is because the public knows he’s terribly unqualified candidate with scandalous associations who’s being forced upon us. Throw in the fact that anyone who doesn’t worship him is called a racist and you have a nasty atmosphere brewing. Some will set it as “proof” blacks are playing the race card to get away with everything.

    As a Latino, this is what I fear the most with Obama: it’ll be absolutely disastrous for race relations. Blacks will bear the brunt of this fury. They’ll be blamed for the mistakes of the rich, white male establishment that chose Obama as their empty suit against the will of the people.

  213. Kim,

    “Could any other candidate have the issues Obama has had and survive this long?”

    No way.

    katie, I may have read one of those books after all. That sounds familiar to me. I will check.

    Pat, thank you for your suggestions. I’ll look them up too.

  214. sonya, on June 7th, 2008 at 11:28 pm Said:

    I believe that because Obama trivialized racism in this primary it has set back race relations and emboldened some individuals to act out.


    Accusing people recklessly of racism at every turn, trivializes true racism…I think a blogger once wrote a piece called “The Boy Who Cried Wolf.”

    Dangerous, and disgusting…the same idea as terrorists are everywhere, around every corner, and muslims are all bad…

    An international threat with Bush, a social threat with Obamicans.


  215. Pat,

    Obama came to the Senate, did not conquer, and was bored. He made a beeline to Teddy (and Daschle in exile) and let them in on his Presidential aspiration “secret.”

    He started campaigning after one year–the “glacial pace” of the Senate bored the “rock star.” (Hey, Hill won a grammy for her reading of “Living History.” She’s a star, too.)

    The taxpayers of Illinois subsidized his run after just one year in the Senate.

    I must say that Senator Cllinton is an amazing woman. She was exceptional to begin with and this campaign transformed her. She is an inspiration to me. Often I find myself saying, “What would Hillary do?” She gives me courage, strength, and the stamina to go on. What she has is the aura of a person with a mission. What Obama has is a desire to be a wealthy celebrity. It sends tingles up the legs of someone as superficial as Tweety and Ariana (former Republican who was impressed with Newt as her political guru).

  216. I loved TalkLeft until today. Jeralyn’s scat message wasn’t very nice at all.

    And I look over there now and only recognize a few “faces”. That was fast! The rest are all apparently exiled Obama supporters who came home. So it’s not the same place anymore.

  217. JJ – vwery good point about the foil. I think you may be right. However, if she wants it I hope she gets it. I would then vote for him no problem at all.

    She has taken so much crap and so has Bill and still they are standing tall and proud. I think she can withstand anything they have out there and together they would win. i am not willing to risk it on McCain and the GOP.

  218. How in the name of all that is holy can they still be selling the old tune that his is going to “unify” every coalition along with disenchanted Repubs and Indies? We are so far beyond that approach now that it defies commonsense.

    They must take us for a collective group of mouth breathers who have no critical thinking skills and will just robotically march to that tired tune. Unity, for what or whom? He can’t even unify his own party members let alone the rest of the country.

  219. yes, and while we were trying to “explain” Kerry, there was John Edwards, the perfect candidate, pushed out by the infinitely less electable Kerry’s brutish tactics–and money. And by God it happened again this year–cow-eyed Iowa college students giving their all for Obama, in utter ignorance of how badly Obama would play in the rest of the country–moronic “political consultants” to Nevada unions giving Edwards the next blow–on and on until we ended up here. again.

  220. Kim, no, no other candidate could have survived the kind of scandals Obama has. Sure, others have had problems, mostly with women and affairs, but Obama’s problems are about a history of associations with anti-american people. I don’t know what to make of them, I give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he does not share their views, but I mean could you just imagine if Hillary or Gore or McCain had sat in a church for 20 years whose pastor preaches God D-America? Could you just imagine? He gets a pass because the press made it about race and no one wants to think they are being racist. I think this is the same reason why the press refuses to vet him properly, they don’t want to appear racist. And, when they do try to go after him, like during the ABC debate, they get 16,000 angry calls from Obamaniacs threatening the lives of the journalists and telling them they are being racist. Wouldn’t it be easier for you, if you are a producer (and have no integrity), to just ignore the little problems he has each day remembering his facts and what not?

    I do not mean this in a racist way at all, I am a minority and I have been the victim of actual racism, but he is the affirmative action candidate through and through. I am sorry if that offends people, I hope not, but it is just the truth. While I support affirmative action in general, particularly when focused on socioeconomic disadvantages, I cannot support it for the Presidency of the United States. That is just a whole different ball game…

  221. Teresa – I know she said “get over it” and maybe that didnt seem too nice. Maybe she was saying that to herself as well though. She wanted Hillary to win and put up with a lot of crap from Obama supporters because of it. But she did say she would support whover the nominee was – she said it back when I joined the night of one of the debates in january.

  222. @grayslady

    Agree they will not realize, and why we need to continue to be vocal. The ‘progressive’ blogosphere has been a disgrace overall with some rays of sunshine. Astounds me that they think the boomer generation are resistant to change, our generation helped foster the changes for equality and the technological changes many are using today. Same as it ever was, our society is one of the few that denigrates age and exalts youth.

  223. Edwards was never perfect. He ran as a centrist dem then 4 years later a wild eyed populist. His big achievement in the Senate was co-sponsoring AUMF. Now his wife would have been one heck of a candidate.

  224. CB, exactly.

  225. Judith: For me, loyalty isn’t transferrable, especially when being transferred from a great lady to an empty suit.

  226. The Sunday shows should be interesting tomorrow. I gave them up weeks ago because of Somerby helping me to parse out the crap that spews forth for the talking heads.

    And I want my money back for those books I purchased: Tim Russert – 2, Tweetie – 2, Donna B – 1, KO -2, Andrea Mitchell -1, Jeffrey Toobin – 2, Tom Brokaw – 2. The refunds can go to Hillary’s debt.

  227. Anyone know how Elizabeth Edwards is doing? I unsubbed from his list after he endorsed BamBam and then immediately sent a fundraising letter? Could he be tackier?

  228. Okay, I Tivo’d a couple of oldies, so I am signing off. Good night all, see you tomorrow.

  229. Angel, I’ll check out McDermid too. And yes, I’ve even read every Ann Rule book. I think we need to trade! I spend a fortune on paperbacks.

    When my nephew came home form Iraq to visit in March, I sent a ton of books back with him. He said those are exactly the type of books they have for them to check out but they don’t have enough. He said the men were even reading some Nora Roberts books!

  230. EE is working for the policy group Hill helped found, I can’t remember the name.

  231. Pat: Like your idea on the book refunds. I bought Jack Cafferty’s and I say that with extreme shame now. After his treatment of Hillary I thought about burning it.

  232. Please don’t buy the mainstream media crap about John Edwards. He and Elizabeth are a mesmerizing and authentic couple. They have suffered real tragedy (unlike the Obamas and like the Clintons).
    He did not endorse Obama until Clinton was unable to meet the DNC threshold. Save your contempt for the Claire McKaskills, the Amy Klobuchars, the Pat Leahys, the Bill Richardsons, et al, who had every opportunity to help Hillary–and turned their backs.
    Edwards was urged to be more open about his populism by Joe Trippi–and then Barry slimed him AND stole his lines. Anyway, I love this blog so please don’t beat up on one of my favorite people.

  233. tabbycat, I’m reading a Nora Roberts book right now, a mystery about a serial killer in a small southern town. It’s funny to think of someone as a certain genre (romance) and read something so spooky….

  234. Thought for the night — Over at InTrade, Hillary is now 22-1 against … but the 38-1 shot won the Belmont Stakes today.

  235. Tabby: I have a ton of books like that but no connections to get them to the troops. If you can suggest a way it’s something I would love to do.

  236. Well, Lauren, i am sorry, John Edwards is not one of my favorite people. I do love his wife, though. He was horrible to Hillary in Iowa. Just awful.

  237. John Edwards endorsed Obama after he said he wasn’t going to endorse. I think even Elizabeth Edwards was pissed at him. Not so much the integrity.

  238. Hillary/Elizabeth ticket would have been the ultimate dream team? Two dynamos that would have swept through congress and rid the DNC of the likes of Pelosi and Reid through sheer power. But looky what we’ve got! Mr. No Experience who is in for the shock of his life when the real issues intrude on his self love.

  239. Teresa – yeah. I know. It irks me too. I am a professional woman who busts my tush to get what I have and if some guy just was handed it while I got trashed I would have a VERY hard time being as gracious as Hillary was today.

    i really think we should be pushing him to offer her the VP spot. If he were smart he would play it like he was forced by her supporters to do it so people might feel better. Like, ha! we made him! If she doesnt want it she refuses. But I would hope she would take it because I think she could remake that office into something pretty good.

  240. You have great perspective RonK!

  241. Pat, that ticket would be sweet!

  242. I think we should continue to make our voices heard with the DNC. Be like those Sentinels who stood for years across from the White House to get the
    attention of President Wilson. When will women get the right to vote?

    If all of those who are planning to jump ship contacted their representatives and Senators (super delegates) and the DNC on a weekly basis and the “base’s” money is coming in, they might get the message.


    The Silent Sentinels were a group of women in favor of women’s suffrage organized by Alice Paul to protest in front of the White House during Woodrow Wilson’s presidency. The protests started January 10, 1917 and lasted until June 1919 when the Nineteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution passed both the House of Representatives and Senate. During those two and a half years, more than a thousand different women picketed every day and night except Sunday

    The following are examples of banners held by the women:
    “Mr. President, what will you do for woman suffrage?”
    “Mr. President, how long must women wait for liberty?”
    “We shall fight for the things which we have always carried nearest our hearts–for democracy, for the right of those who submit to authority to have a voice in their own governments.”
    “Democracy Should Begin at Home”
    “The time has come to conquer or submit, for us there can be but one choice. We have made it.” (another quotation from Wilson)
    “Kaiser Wilson, have you forgotten your sympathy with the poor Germans because they were not self-governed? 20,000,000 American women are not self-governed. Take the beam out of your own eye.” (comparing Wilson to Kaiser Wilhelm II of Germany, and to a famous quote of Jesus regarding hypocrisy)

  243. davidson, I wou;d put it another way – I know McCain is republican and has republican beliefs and those arent mine. I cant vote for someone who thinks it is ok to pollute our rivers and drill for oil on protected lands. So I wont pull the lever for the guy no matter what. But my nails are gonna look great election night if Hillary isnt Obama’s running mate.

  244. Friends don’t lets friends vote republican. I worry this site is being corrupted by republicans.
    [Stale, tasteless complaint elided. Repeat this behavior, Lisag, and you will be gone. — RonK]

  245. Lauren? “He did not endorse Obama until Clinton was unable to meet the DNC threshold. ”

    Is wrong in so many ways that I almost deleted the comment.

    What “DNC threshold”?

    John Edwards endorsed before the final primaries and before even the formal theft of the Florida and Michigan delegations.

    Elizabeth as far as I know hasn’t made an endorsement.

    But, John Edwards? (shaking my head) He didn’t stand up for Hillary ever.

    I’m glad your relationship with him is intact. But, he’s nothing to me now.

  246. the young judith, she wouldn’t have to remake the office. She’d be his Cheney. He’s not going to have any idea what he is doing.

  247. erratum—the “base’s money is NOT coming in.” This assumes that the Obamaphiles keep the money coming in.

  248. the young judith, I am not for McCain in anyway, but he is more an enviro than Senator Coal. Unlike Obama he voted against the Cheney energy plan. Combatting global warming appears to be the signature issue he plans to run on.

  249. Just keep in mind that those same supers, in most instances, are the same ones currently sitting on congress with their “in the toilet” ratings. This is not the All Time Greatest Hits in courage. The same group who let Bush get whatever he wanted is the same group who left Hillary alone out there all by herself. With the exception of Geraldine Ferrero, few stood up for her and took the heat that was deposited on Gerry when she did so. This tells me a lot. It took another woman with guts to finally speak up.

  250. katie, I actually bought that Nora Roberts book today if it’s the new one. I like her mysteries. I haven’t read her trilogies except for a few my sister-in-law gave me. They were good, too, but I hate waiting on a book that continues a story to come out.

    Angel, he comes home next month for good (or at least until next time-this was his fourth time). I’ll ask him where to send them. They really do appreciate them.

    BTW, my nephew is really my nephew-in-law but he’s the only nephew I have and I love him dearly. His family is huge and Latino (PR). Every single one of them voted for Hillary and every single one of them is voting for McCain now. They trust him they tell me. Even with a son/brother/cousin in Iraq. According to my nephew, the military folks still love McCain and so do the Latinos.

  251. hee hee Melanie – well he did say he wasnt a COO type so maybe he really should pick her for his own good. he can go golfing and have great photo ops while she saves our asses.

    I like it!!

  252. And another thing, Obama was praised to the high heavens because he supposedly said he was against the war. Really? He was not even in the Senate so that is a moot point at best. And judging by how he conducts himself with judgment concerning his so called friends and associates, chances are he would have voted for it. He is malleable if nothing else.

  253. New post from Anglachel

    When I watched this speech, I realized that she was not so much stating her power as showing it. It was spoken by someone who has possession of power, not by someone acknowledging defeat. Read it. At no point does she say that she lost, was beaten, was defeated, not even the hoary old “the voters have spoken”. She doesn’t even bother with that. 18 million supporters. She talks about who supports her and who she is dedicated to. She makes clear that she has been the recipient of so much support for all the right reasons.

    Hillary is the leader of half the Democratic Party. She knows it. The DNC knows it. She commands more loyalty of more people within the party than anyone else, including I strongly believe, the Big Dog himself. (Note to Bill – do not challenge Hillary for public office. You will not win.) This speech makes clear that neither she nor her backers are up for grabs. She calls them out by name, presents their stories, talks about their needs and aspirations, and then she says:

  254. felizarte, Said:
    “Hillary won. ….I am fervently praying and hoping that divine providence somehow will reveal itself and she’lll still be the nominee. Some might laugh at me for saying so. But the times when she was counted out, she managed to come back because some uncontrolled events came to the light. I am hoping for similar things. August is two months away. So many things happen.”

    felizarte: I’m glad you said this. I truly think that things will be very different in August. There are so many of us who have stirred up enough energy in the universe that something just has to shift.

    If not, I decided long ago to vote for McCain because I no longer have a party with the values in which I believe. I am convinced that we can bring NObama down for all the reasons we’ve all shared.

    I will never forgive him for taking this away from Hillary, for not waiting his turn. Maybe….but just maybe, he would have learned something from her.

    There is an illusion here. And while the “new age” folks talk of their new-found “lightworker,” there is much more going on here. We’ve certainly outgrown our two-party system and it can no longer contain our needs, our desires, and our dreams. But, for now, Hillary is having to work within that framework. I truly believe she would go outside that if she could, but like her decison to suspend, she is working with what is apparent now. This woman is farther advanced than I imagined. I do believe she is tuned in and has not only Plan A, but B, C, and D. Rise, Hillary, Rise!

    PUMA-Mountain Lion=Leadership=Hillary

  255. Hi tabbycat! I’m waiting for the 2nd book in a Nora Roberts trillogy… It is probably a good thing I have to wait, I’d never get anything done. I’m not so good a putting them down once I start reading.

    Puppy still doing good?

  256. Lisag – the more people repeat that Mccain thing the more I get pissed off. It is insulting Chelsea every time you do it so please knock it off.

  257. Lisag, “Friends don’t lets friends vote republican.”

    I totally agree with this.


    I have every hope that Hillary will be our Nominee and we’ll vote for her in November.


    We’re not a Democratic site — we’re a refuge for Hillary Supporters.


    If Hillary doesn’t get the nomination our friends have to find some solution. If some of our Hillary Supporting friends want to discuss voting for McCain in November — I don’t have a problem with that.

    We’re working on a lot of ideas (one is bowling instead of voting)

    I think it’s safe to say that we’re not about voting for Obama here. If you think we’re going to spend any time talking about that you’re at the wrong blog.

  258. Melanie – interesting point on the energy bit. Obama kissed alot of ass didnt he? 🙂

  259. Katiebird – what to do? My nails or bowl? I cant do both. sigh.

  260. I’d bowl first 😉

  261. The Young Judith: Obama also voted against capping the credit card interest rate at 30%. McCain and Hillary both voted FOR the cap.

    Obama said in a debate that it was because the cap was too high….LOL, so he figured it was better to not cap it even at 30%.

    Obama also had an 18 year relationship with a known slumlord.

    Obama will not save the polar bears.

  262. She merely suspended, not conceded. I am holding out until the very end. But just for the record, Obama never gets my vote.

  263. tabbycat, the one I’m reading now is an older one (I box old paperbacks and go back through them when I have “reading emergencies”) called Carnal Innocence.

    Is the trilogy your reading her newest one? I just finished the 2nd in that trilogy — I really liked it. I used to laugh her off as an author. But, I have tremendous respect for her. It was actually my friend Nancy Pickard who Opened my Eyes. She thinks Roberts is a genius.

  264. Teresa – now what do polar bears have to do with interest rate caps? 🙂

  265. The cap reference is pure Obama. When I recruited in my old job I would ask, “so why did you leave your other job?” The answer used to get me every time, “because I wasn’t making enough money”, or “I wasn’t getting enough hours”. So leaving a job altogether when you don’t have another one made sense to these idiots. Got me every time.

  266. “Shady Connections”? You mean the fact that he’s a black politician from Chicago with ties to the black community? That’s damning enough for many white people, but it’s hardly something he needs to apologize for.

  267. jimtacoma – you are a problem solver!

    actually, nobody in my family bowls – just not our thing we are book worms and musicians for fun – but I wnet bowling last year for the first time and I was awesome. I was shocked.

  268. Regarding the Nora Roberts books. If you have an MP3 player that plays protected WMA (Sandisk Sansa is one) and your library has a subscription to Overdrive or NetLibrary, you can check out Nora Roberts trilogies on mp3 and listen to them all at once.

    I listen to books while gardening.

  269. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/07/us/politics/07women.html?_r=1&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&pagewanted=print&adxnnlx=1212898873-5kA3h/Yc8aE7QpxfNPSYDg

    Has anyone else read this article in the New York Times? I found it incredibly shallow and insulting. My reasons for not supporting Obama go far beyond whatever bitter feelings I may have. HE IS NOT QUALIFIED.

    And it made me so angry that Dean is NOW speaking out against the sexism. He said something very true, that it is easy to move on when your candidate loses, but not so easy when you feel that you have been insulting by institutions in America. If he gets that why the hell did he stay silent for so long? He said he understood it when a friend showed him a video recently…umm…I sent him videos, you tubes of the disgusting comments in the media. He ignored all of it while convenient and now he speaks up. And as for Obama invoking other women, Michelle Obama is no Hillary Clinton. She is a strong woman in her own right , good for her, but bumping fists with Michelle does not make him qualified, nor does it make up for Obama and the DNC’s silence in the face of sexism. It just doesn’t. And I respect Steinem, but Obama giving a speech on race is the WORST thing he could do in my eyes, he knows NOTHING about this topic. And really, I don’t need to hear Claire McCaskill scolding anyone about being respectful to the women when she sat silent all the this time. Where the hell were you Claire?

    STFU to the whole lot of them.

  270. Uh, no. How about the guy convicted for 26 counts of corruption last week who helped Obama by his house?

  271. jjm, you sweetie (and I mean that in the good way!), Puppy is doing okay. My only concern is that he can’t jump on the couch at all. He can’t even come close and he’s always done it effortlessly.

    The disease he has is a blood platelet disorder, thrombocytopenia, and lameness can sometimes go along with it but I don’t know why. I’m getting scared that it is something bad (cancer) because there are three causes: tick born disease (negative), cancer, and immune system disorder. His vet says immune system and I hope he is right because the survival rate is 50-70%.

    He’s responding really good to prednisone right now, in huge doses, so I guess the vet is right. I hope so. The little fellow is starving from the steroids though.

    Thank you for asking and sorry for the vet lesson! My husband won’t discuss it now because he is convinced he will be fine and he thinks I worry too much. So, it helped me to write that to you.

  272. Me to, jud. Maybe we’ll do like a book group night instead of voting.

  273. ITrollALot: Hey, we have a unity ambassador!

    As far as I know Rezko and Ayers aren’t black.

  274. #
    ITrollALot, on June 8th, 2008 at 12:25 am Said:

    “Shady Connections”? You mean the fact that he’s a black politician from Chicago with ties to the black community? That’s damning enough for many white people, but it’s hardly something he needs to apologize for.

    LOL! Yeah, I know, this black girl is a racist.

    Can you spell R-E-Z-K-O ?

  275. melanie – now that sounds like a fine idea. I can read and do my nails.

    i am reading a hysterical memoir by Simon Doonan called “Nasty”.

  276. ITrollalot, STFU, we are a diverse bunch here, not all of us are white, and yes, Obama’s connections to someone who was just indicted on 20 plus charges of corruption is a huge concern. The man helped him buy his house for goodness sakes, and you don’t think we have the right to ask questions? We don’t have the right to ask questions about his 20 year spiritual relationship with Wright, or Pleger? Grow up, the guy wants to be President, I am sure he can handle a few tough questions from the voters.

  277. No problem Tabbycat! I love dogs – and cats, fish, frogs and whatever else the kids drag home. I lost my 16 year old springer last summer. I have a place in my heart for people caring for sick dogs, I know how much you can love them.

  278. Tabby: I have a 12 year old on prednisone right now. He’s developing neurological disease including laryngeal paralysis. We’re contemplating surgery for the laryngeal paralysis because it’s getting really bad. Unfortunately the surgery is as bad as the cure, 20% death rate in the first 6 months. He’s had literally 13 surgeries already for various things, tumor removal, cruciate ligament repair. It’s tough.

    But the prednisone is a curse and a miracle at the same time. We give veggies when he seems starving. I’ll wash a whole carrot and cut off the ends and give it to him like an edible bone. Or he’ll eat an entire can of green beans. Both filling, and low calorie.

  279. katie, this is a new mystery I think. Not a trilogy unless I read it wrong. High Noon?

    I also keep some book emergencies. My memory must be getting bad and I read so much that I have to look at the original date published inside the books now because I keep buying books I’ve already read!

  280. BTW: My 12 year old is a labrador ;-).

    What’s your puppy’s breed?

  281. I’m reading “Wicked”. It’s so good.

  282. tabbycat, “My only concern is that he can’t jump on the couch at all. He can’t even come close and he’s always done it effortlessly.”

    This happened with our baby. We made a little ramp for him.

  283. JJ:

    Rezko was indicted on 24 counts, but was only convicted of 16, so it’s racist to refer to him.


  284. I wanted to ask…was that Sam Nunn behind Bill at Hillary’s speech? I thought he was a big BO guy…was he there to keep a eye on them??

  285. In 2004, I was head of reference/public services at a large military base library in the South. One day, a colonel came in, and picked up Unfit for Command and yelled at me, “He’s a traitor, a traitor!” As civil service, I couldn’t talk politics, but the library was full of people. I think I had the only Kerry sticker on base. Yeh, I held my nose then. But when he gave a speech at a VFW or some such right after the Swiftboat & never mentioned his antiwar activities, I knew he was a goner. If he couldn’t even try his case to them…

    As for the book read, I’m a bloodless mystery reader [a la Agatha Raisin], but Randy Wayne White’s Doc Ford series is kinda interesting except for his conservative leanings.

    However, I would suggest a 2004 British film, The Politicians’s Wife starring Juliet Stevenenson [also has Minnie Driver in small role]. It is an evil, sweet story of satisfying revenge. Served cold.

  286. Thank you jjm. I’m sorry for your loss. I lost a nine year old poodle three years ago and Puppy just turned eight. I can’t go through this again so soon.

    Teresa, I am so sorry for your baby. I know you have spent a fortune. I’m up to about $1800 and the vet says six more months of treatment and then 50% chance of multiple relapses. It’s too late to get insurance for him but I might for my three year old dog. He loves green beans so that’s a good idea. Right now he’s sharing popcorn with me. He was actully crying when it was popping he was so hungry. I wish you lots of luck.

  287. melanie – I just looked that book up – is that the one about the wicked witch? It looks good.

  288. tabbycat,
    I have a dog who has had ITP for 10 years.. It was caused from vaccines. I’ve done alternative, would love to give you some of my knowledge. To much pred is not good for him, but it is what Vets use for everything.

  289. I wonder what they really want out of Hillary!
    A news lead teaser goes: “Hillary Concedes but is she really out of the race?
    It certainly brought a smile to my face. I am so sure she is not.

    But I wonder why they think that her speech this morning is still not enough? I guess some people want to see her act really defeated and on the verge of tears. NOT OUR HILLARY. In the first place, she really won. In the second place, anything can come out about Obama or Michelle between now and the convention. In the third place, if Obama is the nominee indeed, My vote goes to McCain. That is one vote from Obama and one vote for McCain. And I suspect that I am not alone with this kind of thinking.

    So those trolling Oborg drones, wasting their time and only making me more resolute.

  290. parentoed – I always meant to see that – I will have to get it form the library …thanks for the reminder!

  291. Scary Smart Anglachel has a post up about Hillary’s speech today.

    The usual “must-read”

  292. “now because I keep buying books I’ve already read!” That happens to me too. But, it always has.

    I read High Noon, but I don’t remember what I thought of it. I tend to like her paperback originals more than the Hardbacks.

    She’s got 6 books (!!) coming out this year. So it shouldn’t be a surprise if some of them are better than others.

  293. Thanks, I wish you luck too.

    I’ve never found pet insurance to be a great deal. If you read the fine print, you may find the same.

    I think over the course of Cody’s life we’ve spend…okay, I’m not going to say because the amount is ridiculous. Some people spend money on fancy jewelry and vacations — and disappointing politicians(LOL) — we spend it on making our guy comfortable. He is the rocket scientist of labradors and amazingly handsome. Here’s a pic in his much younger days. http://teepics.blogspot.com/2007/07/young-cody.html

  294. Laney! I forgot vaccines…mine hadn’t had any in two years. Antibiotics of certain kinds can cause it too. You make me feel better…10 years!

    My email is teresap AT yahoo dot com if you want to send me email.

    Are you talking about raw food? I think I would get sick doing that but a help group I found on Yahoo does that a lot.

  295. myiq2xu, I’ve been reading it in another window….

    When I watched this speech, I realized that she was not so much stating her power as showing it. It was spoken by someone who has possession of power, not by someone acknowledging defeat. Read it. At no point does she say that she lost, was beaten, was defeated, not even the hoary old “the voters have spoken”. She doesn’t even bother with that. 18 million supporters. She talks about who supports her and who she is dedicated to. She makes clear that she has been the recipient of so much support for all the right reasons.

    Hillary is the leader of half the Democratic Party. She knows it. The DNC knows it. She commands more loyalty of more people within the party than anyone else, including I strongly believe, the Big Dog himself. (Note to Bill – do not challenge Hillary for public office. You will not win.) This speech makes clear that neither she nor her backers are up for grabs.

  296. I think Hillary also knows that her voters are smart, capable of nuance and know exactly what happened.

  297. tabbycat,
    i will email you… i’m a HUGE animal lover, so if i can pass on info to help a 4 legged friend, i feel as though i’ve done some good. i have done raw meat, which is the best for the dog, but there is more… you can buy it frozen. but, i will email you, then maybe we can talk on the phone…

  298. great post myiq. I also think she surpassed or at least equaled Bill and I didn’t think that was possible.

    Teresa, he’s beautiful boy. Mine are poodles and before you laugh, ask katie. They are great pets. Mine are cute as buttons, never bark and just want to be held. If I can just keep them healthy.

    We canceled our Florida vacation this year for future vet bills. I’ll sell my house if I have to so I know how you feel. It makes me think very highly of you to love your dog like I do mine. I’ve already had a few people tell me to put him to sleep. They’d have to put me to sleep with him before I give up.

  299. Wow – Cody looks like a big lab!

    I used to drive over Tiger Mtn all the time when my mother lived in North Bend. Nice trails…

  300. {{jim}} } we lost our poodle, Digby 3 years ago He was 18. tabbycat & I talk about him all the time.

  301. Okay, here is what I’m writing in reply to the countless Unity emails I receive from Democratic Leadership sites:
    Dear Democratic Leaders,

    This here is one 56 year old life-long Democrat who will support John McCain in November. The Democratic party has left me, and I believe the only way my formerly beloved party will go back to its original values will to be shocked back into reality party members like myself.

    I know the risk, and do not make this decision lightly. I will concentrate on supporting true liberal down-ticket Democrats to help assure a veto-proof majority in the Congress and Senate, as to keep Mr. McCain’s agenda in check. But my money and the thousands of volunteer hours I’ve given over the years, have come to a halt.

    You can thank the DNC. The RBC meeting anointing this inexperienced Chicago politician was the very last straw.

    I’ve observed the moral and ethical decline of the Democratic Party over many years, but I’ve always held my nose and supported the party-line faithfully, in the hope that things would get better.

    But after watching the spineless groveling of our 2006 elected Democratic House and Senate majority, facing a (war criminal) 28% approval rating bully law-breaking president, I have lost all hope for party reform from within, and this final election debacle was the last straw I needed to tear myself away from “my” beloved party.

    I am heartbroken over it, but I firmly believe that now it’s time to cut the cancer from the sick patient. Like chemotherapy, it will be arduous and painful, but I believe with all my heart that at this point it is the only way to save true Democratic values and our already partially dismantled constitution.

    I have torn up my party registration, and my donations and thousands of past volunteer hours have come to an abrupt halt. I still hope to be able to come back one day, but, for now , the “Hope and Change” being promised to me is so far nothing but words.



  302. Teresa, on June 8th, 2008 at 12:50 am Said:
    I think Hillary also knows that her voters are smart, capable of nuance and know exactly what happened.

    I agree – she does and we are.

  303. Laney, thank you.

    Gabriele, that’s a wonderful letter. I may steal parts of it if it’s okay.

  304. Gabriele: great letter. tough love and just what they need.

    Tabbycat and Katiebird: I always had poodles when I was growing up. They are great loving little dogs, full of energy and personality. Some bark, but it is a small price to pay for such a sweet dog. I have a 2 year old yorkie now.

  305. (nodding) Digby did bark a lot when he was younger but that stopped almost completely in his old age.

    We’re planning on getting a puppy this summer. I’ve never had my own pet from baby-hood before.

  306. Riverdaughter’s back and she’s got a new post upstairs!

  307. I’m sorry about your Digby Katiebird. I love poodles, I pretty much love all dogs. I’m especially fond of labradors of course.

    jjmtacoma: Yeah, Cody is a huge lab, about 90 pounds at his fighting weight, more of a field dog than a “show dog”. Of course, the pred has added a pound or two LOL!

    Yeah, I like Tiger. We used to do a great deal of hiking before Cody got in bad shape. Someday we’ll go again.

    Do you live in the Seattle Area?

  308. My Cody was never a barker in his whole life. The irony is that he may be “debarked” when he has his laryngeal paralysis surgery.

    My other lab, Darla is very much the warning barker, becomes OUTRAGED when any bird or bunny presents in the front yard.

  309. Today, Hillary’s speech had two messages — one to pacify the DNC, and the other to let her supporters know she’s still in this race. Reallllly in this race.

    I’m staying with Hillary. I think it’s kind of funny that BO now sees us Hill folks as needing to be wooed. We were ridiculed, mocked, counted out by them for 17 months but now he wants us. He wants us smart girls (and guys) to be his date at the prom. Well, fat chance. I know a winner when I see one, and it’s Hillary. I’m going to keep working for her because I know come August and November, the DNC will come begging to have her back. She WILL be our 44th President.

  310. Susan, I didnt hear what you did. I heard a sincere speech.

  311. Susan: I am still hoping for Hillary to be the nominee, I haven’t completely given up yet. I do worry that any upset that would allow her to be nominated would also lock in the party fracture and prevent her from winning in November.

    Teresa: my springer was highly protective of our yard, god forbid a squirrel or bird had the nerve…

    I live in Tacoma.

  312. tabby,
    your email address is not working?

  313. Susan,
    Nice to see another HRC in Wa. state!!! I was one 8 at my caucus, which by the way was a joke…

  314. susan, i meant 1 of 8…

  315. jjmtacoma: Of course, you live in tacoma. When I saw your userid, I kept seeing “coma,” but now, oops there it is! ;-).

    I’m in Sammamish, which is near Issaquah, 20 minutes from North Bend.

    We had a springer, definitely protective dogs, and of course hunters, too. We call our girl “Darla the Huntress”.

  316. We definitely need to get rid of caucuses in Washington State. We have a primary, why have the caucus, except to give the party excess control.

  317. I am also going to keep contacting SD’s, particularly to continue to let them know all the reasons I cannot vote Democratic this year if Obama is the nominee, and to keep hitting them on the fact that he will not win without us. I think this is going to be pretty obvious by August. There are now more anti-Obama sites springing up every day. Perhaps these SD’s need to know that we don’t plan to vote for them the next time they are up for re-election if they don’t show some spine and vote for who can win this November.

  318. Laney, I screwed that up. It’s

    teresap756 AT Yahoo dot com. I forgot the numbers.

  319. Judith, I have watched a million Hillary speeches. She is always sincere. She wasn’t being insincere today, not at all….but I do think her usual spark was missing. And I think it goes beyond just the exhaustion and the disappointment.

    But everyone interprets thing differently. That’s my take on it. I watch the body language. Usually tells me more than any words ever will.

  320. I know the Sammamish area. I live in Brown’s Point and have lived in the ‘greater Seattle area’ my whole life.

    I love the name Darla for a dog. Our yorkie’s name is Isabelle and we call her Izzy. Yorkies are quite a bit different from hunting breeds, I wasn’t completely prepared. I hadn’t had a small dog since I was a kid and boy, 5 lbs is SMALL! Our cat is bigger.

  321. Parsing Hillary’s speech reveals that she did not endorse Obama as much as she endorsed her supporters. I agree with Anglachel’s analysis totally. Three cheers for HRC! Truly she is several cuts above. August will determine how I vote in November. As I’ve said before (even at TL) it is Hillary or McCain for me. Not because I like McCain, but because I detest Obama more.

  322. okay Susan – I get you now. I misunderstood.

    well, I will send out good vibes and hope Obama asks her to be his VP. He would be so smart to do so even if she says no.

    g’night all you Clintonians.

  323. Speaking of pets: I have a 25 year old white spectackled amazon parrot (very possessive) four goldfishes; a siamese mix cat who is ten and a lhasa apso, 5. I don’t trust people who don’t like dogs or cats and trust even less, those people that my pets do not like. I find that dogs especially, are usually correct in their perceptions. When I was much younger, I operated a kennel (hotel for cats and dogs) and I say that I learned more about human behavior from cats and dogs. I find it interesting that in the Book of Genesis it states that God created all the animals and living creatures of the world before creating mankind and only because God wanted someone to look after the animals. Also, the political intrigues, deceptions, recounted in the Bible are certainly eye-popping.

  324. In addition to Izzy (the yorkie) we have a cat and a fish. The fish belongs to my 4 year old. The fish is a red and blue beta named “Goldy” after a goldfish that was burried at sea.

    The best people I’ve known are pet lovers.

  325. Uppity Woman,
    I’m all for taking back the whitehouse with Hillary as president. I am not going to take a chance on the present democratic leadership that has corrupted the party and disregard people’s votes and made up rules just so they can anoint their predetermined nominee. At this time, party labels do not mean much, because the Obama campaign has acted very much like the Bush/Rove collective. I support Hillary, but she does not own my vote.

  326. Tabbycat,

    of course it’s okay to steal from it. That’s why I posted it. Bless you.

  327. Uppity Woman,

    “Let’s take back The White House for the Democrats and make America a better place.”

    …for the Democrats? Which ones? We’ll have to get rid of a lot of them to do that, and pretty quickly too. How can we do that? They’re embedded in the system.

  328. “Here’s my problem: HOW does Obama explain all those shady connections? If he won’t talk about it and we CAN’T talk about it — how do we know what to say?”

    Don’t all politicians have shady connections? Which one doesn’t?

  329. Riverdaughter (Goldberry)

    I can’t tell you enough about how your blog and all it’s participants are helping me get through this time. You are a gem, a warrior, and a source of strength for so many of us.

    Thank you for all of your efforts on Hillary’s and all of our behalf.

    There are not too many of us who can take the time to put forth what and how we really feel. You do it for us, and it’s great to be able to check in here once or twice a day to replenish our batteries while we’re out in the world trying to make a living. Mine is wildlife education and working with injured wild raptors. It doesn’t pay well, and I live month to month. But my passion is high, my support for Hillary is 100+% and you speak for me.

    I appreciate you and your commitment to my own commitments. Thank you and good night (and hell if I’d ever say “…and good luck” again after that fraud of a newscaster used it).

  330. WOW, 333 RESPONSES!!!

  331. Davidson said, “As a Latino, this is what I fear the most with Obama: it’ll be absolutely disastrous for race relations. Blacks will bear the brunt of this fury. They’ll be blamed for the mistakes of the rich, white male establishment that chose Obama as their empty suit against the will of the people.”

    This is perhaps deliberate, if unconscious? Obama is being used as a pawn in a class war between whites. The uneasy alliance between white liberals and African-Americans has always had this purpose. “Hyde Park, black and white together, shoulder to shoulder against the lower classes.”

    Two relevant works of literature for this election season: “Invisible Man” by Ralph Ellison and “Radical Chic and Mau-Mauing the Flak Catchers,” by Tom Wolfe. Read ’em!

  332. “Friends don’t let friends vote Republican.”

    Here’s the thing, if we’re serious about the matters discussed on this blog, we pretty much all HAVE to vote for McCain. Write-ins, staying home, voting for the Greens, that will not defeat Obama in this strong dem year. And if we do not defeat Obama, then the party will become his and we women truly will be at the back of the bus serving coffee.

    Do you really think the hideous hordes of Obama supporters, the Dean/Brazille DNC, and Obama himself will join hands with us and sing Kumbaya if we almost, but not quite, bring him down? There’s an old saying in the practice of law that everyone uses when you’re trying to decide whether to file a recusal motion against a judge, which after the RFK kerfluffle I hesitate to use, so please understand I offer this saying in the metaphorical sense only. It goes like this: “if you try to kill the king, you better kill him.” If you don’t you just make him stronger and he will eventually kill you.

    That’s where we are sisters, so you’d best come to terms with it. Try it on for size — it’s not so bad. Keep in mind, McCain has all but promised that he will be a one-termer. Think of him as a placeholder, a caretaker if you will, keeping the seat warm for Hillary. With a strong dem Congress, he won’t be able to do much harm, and frankly I don’t think he’ll want to. I’ve been reading his book since realizing I will have to hold my nose and vote for him. He’s all about family honor and legacy. He will be looking to put policies in place that history will praise — perhaps some kind of stripped down, but functional UHC authored by HRC? Who knows.

    Split government has worked well in the past; it did for a certain William Jefferson Clinton. And some of the best Supreme Court justices have been appointed by moderate, even conservative, Republicans: (Warren, Brennan by Eisenhower; Stephens by Ford; O’Connor by Reagan; Souter by Bush I), One of the worst troglodytes ever on the court — Whizzer White. Anyone remember who appointed him? That would be JFK.

    So, let’s cowgirl up and get real. We have to defeat Obama, pure and simple. With that in mind, can we vote for John McCain? Yes we can!

  333. It seems rather clear that the poster calling himself “Uppity Woman” is a nym-stealer. Uppity would never advocate supporting Obama.

  334. Len,

    I had that same thought. Clicking on her name however, led me straight to her own site. Is this kind of deception really what we’re going to have to face from here on? I guess it is.

    Perhaps Uppity herself can help clear this one up.

  335. I agree with you FemB4Dem. If we want to make a commitment to defeating Obama we have to take it all the way.

    I live in Wisconsin so a vote for McCain, if enough of us former Democrats do that, will have a real impact. And many of the men and women I talk to over at the Senior Center plan on doing just that. And the trash-talking about McCain’s age from some on the left is not helping.

    Kerry just barely won WI and I can’t understand why so many people seem to think WI is a blue state. Yes we have 2 Dem Senators. (Ha, one of them is Herb Kohl, a DINO) and a Dem Governor who just squeaked through in the last election. But the Republicans are strong and loud and never, ever give up. They never do.

    And truth be told, after the actions of the Democrats on May 31st, I don’t want to see them hold both the congress and the White House. Don’t wanna see the Republicans have it all either. Can’t trust any of them IMHO.

    PUMA POWER is People standing together Power

  336. KM:

    I’m not committed to defeating Obama. That’s too grandiose a plan for someone as modest and lazy as me.

    I am committed to not voting for him. OTOH, I won’t vote for McCain either.

    If one of them is going to win next November they’re gonna have to do it without my help.

    And being opposed to both of them, I am free to criticize and say WTF I want about them.

    A pox on both their houses.

  337. myiq2xu:
    “And being opposed to both of them, I am free to criticize and say WTF I want about them.”

    That sounds good to me. At least it does so far. At the rate Obama’s falling in my opinion that could change though. It’s amazing how incompetent he is as a Presidential Candidate.

  338. KB:

    In January my position was that Hillary was more qualified than Obama, but either was preferable to any GOP candidate.

    My opinion of McCain has not changed. My opinion of Hillary has risen significantly, but not nearly as much as my opinion of Obama has fallen.

  339. The sweeties seem flabbergasted that Hillary’s speech yesterday endorsing Obama hasn’t persuaded us.

    “But . . . but . . . Hillary endorsed him!”

    The reason they don’t get it is that Obama has followers, but Hillary has supporters.

  340. Katiebird: I’m glad you decided to post this. I remember on Friday evening you were wondering if it was too dark. To me, it doesn’t seem dark, just realistic.
    These lines in particular struck me: “HOW does Obama explain all those shady connections? If he won’t talk about it and we CAN’T talk about it — how do we know what to say? And if we can get past the shady connections, how do we explain his utter lack of qualifications?”

    His failure to provide a plausible explanations for these connections is suspicious, but it’s not just that. He gives his supporters nothing to work with. Likewise with his being shockingly underqualified. I know all of us remember that Tweety interview with an Obama supporter who could not come up with one qualification.

    I think that we should all make a pact to go B.O.W.L.-ing on Nov. 4.

  341. myiq: way upthread somewhere a commenter quoted someone who was at a private reception with Hillary after yesterday’s speech. That person thanked each Super Delegate for being there and standing with Hillary. One of them said something memorable: “Loyalty isn’t transferable”

    … Loyalty isn’t transferable ….

  342. jules, thank you so much. I edited out a long piece about Ohio voters and Kerry letting them and us down. I knew it would come out in the comments and it REALLY made the piece feel like a dirge. Also, that problem didn’t really relate to Obama. He knows how to count votes (and suppress them if they aren’t going his way)

    Here’s a good example of the sort of think Obama supporters think will work this fall:

    Spritopias, on June 8th, 2008 at 3:26 am Said:

    “Here’s my problem: HOW does Obama explain all those shady connections? If he won’t talk about it and we CAN’T talk about it — how do we know what to say?”

    Don’t all politicians have shady connections? Which one doesn’t?

    Do they think that’s going to convince voters? Oh, Really?

  343. Please be advised that the message copied below, which was posted above, was NOT written by me. I do not support Barack Obama in any way, shape or form, nor will I ever. However, I have been impersonated using this same post in a number of places, which tells me I’m doing a good job on my blog. I would appreciate if the impersonator’s post in my name would be removed.

    ” When I watched her speech this morning, I felt something genuine in her voice. When she talked about dedicating her life to making America a better place, you could tell that was her deepest conviction.

    She seemed a little hesitant endorsing Obama, but she also seemed very confident when she said we cannot afford to allow the Republicans to hold The White House for another 4 years or more.

    In the end, I think Hillary’s decision to support Obama was what she feels is the best course for our country to follow. I’ve supported her so far, so there’s no reason for me to doubt her now.

    Let’s take back The White House for the Democrats and make America a better place”

    [FALSE-FLAG POSTING CONFIRMED — identical message also false-flag posted under the guise of regular poster Dawnelle — admins, please ‘unapprove’ rather than delete, to preserve evidence — RonK]

  344. Uppity, I’ll watch for the fakes. And go back and delete them.

  345. katiebird — DO NOT DELETE!

  346. RonK — OK, I couldn’t find it anyway…. (why?)

  347. Oh, Ron — I see your note — you’re absolutely right!

  348. Katie Bird – Obama was in the U.S. Senate for 2 years before he ran and actually has as much experience as Abraham Lincoln did when he ran for President. As for his “shady” friends, he has less then the Clinton’s did, so you need to do some more research before you take wild shots like that.
    If you look deeper into what he has accomplished while he’s been in the U.S. Senate, you might be surprised to learn that he has done more then most of his colleagues. In fact, Obama has held elected office longer then Hillary Clinton or RFK before he ran for President. Check it out: http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/01/07/556579.aspx

  349. Fragments,
    I have spent days researching Obama’s resume. He’s a 47 year old man and he has the resume of a 27 year old.

    Until getting his “job” in the Senate he’s barely held a full time job.

    You dare compare him to Lincoln? Lincoln was a practicing attorney before his political career. Obama? He was a glorified law clerk. He’s never been the lead attorney on a single case.

    And about those shady friends. I’m telling you: I’m NOT going to defend those relationships with the lame, “Clinton knows bad people too” explanation. That’s just flat-out stupid.

    If you can come up with something better, I’m willing to listen. But, so far you and the rest of Obama’s supporters aren’t doing him any favors.

    You support him by telling me to do more research? I spent 5 years as a Reference Librarian. I’ve DONE my research. With Obama, there’s nothing to find.

  350. Whoa Katie bird – you do have your facts wrong. I’m surprised such an apparently smart individual like you hasn’t looked closely. Let’s take your last remarks here –

    “Until getting his “job” in the Senate he’s barely held a full time job.”

    Not true. Blatantly not true.
    Did you not read the link I sent you from MSNBC? Do they lie?
    Before holding a political office he was Director of the Developing Communities Project in Chicago for 3 years.

    He has held political office for 10 years. He spent several years as a State senator from Illinois (1997-2004 – that’s 7 years) and 2 years in the U.S. Senate. Being a senator isn’t a job?

    While he does not have the 23 years of law experience he is a practicing attorney with a law degree from Harvard law school. He graduated magna cum laude. He worked for Davis, Miner, Barnhill & Galland from 1993 to 2002 (that’s 9 years) as an associate (that’s a full time job) and he was engaged in extensive civil rights cases.

    In 1990 he was also the President for the Harvard Law Review. It’s considered one of the pre-eminent law publications in the United States.

    He has worked his entire life.

    I understand you are unhappy with the political choices available today. But the facts are available for you to review. I again direct you to the MSNBC articel that throughly documented the facts:

  351. First, Fragments – you misspelled my name. Which I hate. I always figure that if people can’t bother to spell my name right the rest of what they say has little value.

    No, I didn’t go to MSNBC. Why would I go to a site managed by the Obama network when I could go directly to his own site?

    Political office for 10 years? The Illinois legislature is a part time affair. What did he do when the legislature was in session? Another part time job teaching Constitutional Law? And what did he publish during those years? What did he publish as President of the Harvard Law Review?

    And what 47 year old man is still touting his academic record?

    I’ve read about his work as an associate lawyer – to me it sounds like he was a glorified law clerk.

    Look — the man wants to have the hardest job in the world and he’s been under-employed for his “talents” his whole life.

    I wouldn’t hire him to be director of my library. He’s got NO experience.

    So fuck off. From now on you’re spam.

  352. Katiebird – do you approve of this:

    “If you observe a comment from any poster, familiar or otherwise, who claims to have seen the light and decided to follow Hillary’s lead to support Obama, or pointing to McCain positions as reasons they must support Obama, please do not respond except if they’re using your username. For the time being, all such posts must be presumed counterfeit.”

    Because I read this as a nasty assed and moronic way to go after anyone who doesnt walk lockstep with other posters here and that kind of thing is not for thinking adults. It is behavior for the defunct Taylor Marsh comment board that was such a disgrace.

    So please let me know if this is what you and Riverdaughter agree with.

    As moderators of this site you no doubt have access to IP addresses and email addresses if you are unsure of who someone is.

  353. “Not true. Blatantly not true.
    Did you not read the link I sent you from MSNBC? Do they lie?”

    Yes. SASQ

    “Before holding a political office he was Director of the Developing Communities Project in Chicago for 3 years.”

    And what exactly did that entail?

    “He has held political office for 10 years. He spent several years as a State senator from Illinois (1997-2004 – that’s 7 years) and 2 years in the U.S. Senate. Being a senator isn’t a job?”

    State senator in Illinois is a part-time job (65 days a year) Katiebird said “before the Senate”

    “While he does not have the 23 years of law experience he is a practicing attorney with a law degree from Harvard law school. He graduated magna cum laude. He worked for Davis, Miner, Barnhill & Galland from 1993 to 2002 (that’s 9 years) as an associate (that’s a full time job) and he was engaged in extensive civil rights cases. “

    You’re double dipping his time, because he was in the Illinois senate from 1996-2004.

    Can you name any of the “extensive civil rights cases” he was engaged in? Was he ever lead counsel? Did he ever appear in court?

    “In 1990 he was also the President for the Harvard Law Review. It’s considered one of the pre-eminent law publications in the United States.”

    Jeffrey Toobin (media hack) proceeded him at the position. You do realize that Obama’s tenure there was the lowest performing period in HLR history?

  354. I’m a staunch Clinton supporter and will drop the democratic party as soon as Obama is officially nominated and will write Clinton in in November.
    That said, I do not get Clinton supporters saying they’re going to vote for McCain.
    If you’re pissed off about Obama’s and his surrogates’ and the DNC’s misogyny, as you rightly should be, you’ve got to know that McCain is at least as bad. He spoke out about Pfleger’s comments and will go after the women’s vote, because he knows Hillary’s supporters are angry. But if it wasn’t politically expedient for him to do so, he wouldn’t have said a word. He’s anti-choice; anti-equal-pay legislation; he’s verbally abusive to his own wife; has made Limbaugh-esque cracks about Chelsea Clinton being “ugly” (which is delusional imo); and in response to “how do we beat the bitch” from one of his supporters in reference to Clinton, he just laughed and said, “good question.”
    I beseech you please do not vote for that asshole.

  355. MSNBC? Do they lie?

    Yes. Often.

  356. Do I have a comment caught in the spam filter? Because one of mine is missing (a response to “fragments” )

  357. wiggles, the point of voting for McCain is not because he’s so wonderful (although he’s better than Obama, imo), it’s because voting for him is the ONLY way to make absolutely sure that the vote-stealing empty suit never gets into the White House. (We already have one of those in there and how well has that worked for us?? )

    A write-in? No. Some states don’t count them and some states automatically hand them to the “official” nominee–so your write-in for Hillary could go to BO!!

    Third party? Not enough numbers to make that worthwhile.

    The point is to defeat BO and ALSO to send a message to the DNC that it will never forget. The message is DO NOT WANT. And, “we will not forgive or forget your misoygyny and vote-stealing.”

    To defeat BO you have to vote McCain. Period.

  358. Sorry to double-post, but i have to warn the other Hillary supporters, I’m seeing this topic come up a lot in the Hillary sites: Don’t vote McCain, stay home or write in!

    I hate to say it but I think these are the new Obamatroll talking points. There is a strong whiff of concern trollery about them.

  359. hey I am having password issues-everytime i get a new password it will not take it. below is my last etter to the DNC:
    I have asked you to remove me from your donor list. You will be getting no contributions from me this election season. I will not be supporting you candidate Barak Obama. After much thought and careful consideration; I am supporting John McCain at the top of the ticket and have made no decisions on how I vote down ticket. If the party is running a candidate down ticket who was a supporter of Barak Obama then I will vote for their Opponent.
    The reason for this is, nothing has changed since the “Magic Number” has been reached. I supported Senator Clinton because of her experience, willingness to work with the opposition, willingness to show up for work, and her brilliant ideas on healthcare, the environment, and bringing jobs home to America.
    My number one criteria in making this selection: experience. Senator Obama has not gained any more experience between June First and June 5th 2008. The candidate with the next most experience and who more closely supports my values is Senator John McCain.
    If I switched from Hillary Clinton to Barak Obama, then really the whole primary season and my support was just a beauty contest. My support for Senator Clinton was real and based on what I determined was best for our country. When I compared Barak Obama to John McCain, I came to the conclusion that once again the Democrats have put up a flawed and Ill prepared candidate to be leader of the free world. The difference this time is I am not going to support him for the good of “Party Unity”.
    I am afraid the Democrats have not only lost my support but you have lost my vote.

    I guess the last truely loyaL Hillary supported got her doner list to mccain he has sent me an email about his place for us in his camp. Also there are 2 moving presentations at the Naval Aviation Museum in Pensacola Florida, involving McCains Heroism during Vietnam, if you get a chance go see them one is entitled “Fire Fire,Fire” about the fire in the USS Forrestal the other is at the POW exibit.

    Fuzzybeargville-M P Varvel
    Disafected Democrat

  360. sorry the password issue was for Pumapac-if you have any pull over there anyone let them know of my trouble-thanks riverdaughter

  361. The answer is quite simple. In one word. RIOT!
    The DNC did not want to offend the 12% of the population if BO was not given the green light.
    We are not going to stand by and let fear take its course.

  362. Maybe ole Lene (?) could write something serious.
    Is this supposed to be humor?
    I for one hope this is a serious blog because the future is real serious!

  363. Jennifer:

    Good luck on that.

  364. Obama is not qulified to be president. He is by definition a liar. Only his arrrogance supercedes his ego. He never misses an opportunity to expound on how Americans are ignorant and don’t measure up to his standards. To think of having to be preach to by him for years is very unnerving. I have voted democratic tickets for 40 years. Today I am a registered Independent. As an African American I think the Democratic Leaders want to say they were the first party to nominate an African American for president. I think they should have waited.

  365. WOW as an American, I can clearly see how this election will be one of great excitement.

    I truly hope that whom ever we as a nation vote for ,
    is “qualified” based on their past and their steady history. As for me I know that the Democratic candidate is less qualified and less experienced, at the same time the Republican candidate is experienced and very qualified. The question is this.

    Why do we feel the need to support a candidate that we can’t point to and gauge their history? Why would you invest in stock that hasn’t been proven? Why would you feel the need to convince yourself that we are ready?

    The change we need as a nation in my opinion is within our selves. meaning, we have grown far too dependent and selfish in our lives. no candidate can change that. only you can do that. so no matter who’s in office we better be damn sure we are able to live with it, if we choose to ” prove” something, we might just get what we asked for.

    A new direction, sometimes is the wrong direction. it’s just like loosing that weight, if we quit on the road to success because it gets hard, then we will never get to that goal.

    Oh yeah by the way I’m a black man , An American red blooded and true and a democrat that woke the hell up 8 years ago and changed my views and associations. and with the right mental help any liberal can change, there’s hope after all .

  366. 2jThank’s for greate post.3e I compleatly agree with last post. bbz
    ламинированный паркет 4i

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