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Friday: Resolved

Our spike in readership continues. Surprisingly few of us have decided to leave us for the Obama camp. We are resolved to see this through.

Let us be clear what this is all about for those of you who wander in here looking for an argument. The problem is the party itself. 2008 was the year that the party abandoned its principles. It is no longer the party of FDR and shared responsibility. Now, it is the party of wannabe rich libertarian Democrats. It is the party of the Ariana Huffingtons who, dissatisfied with their own party, have decided to steal someone else’s. It isn’t the party that nearly elected Bobby Kennedy. It is the party that is about to write off Appalachia. Good riddance, poor working people! You’re on your own now. It isn’t the party that made social security sacred. It is the party that might very well start tinkering with it because the young and well off don’t understand the concept of shared responsibility and insurance. And speaking of insurance, well, don’t expect the health insurance crisis to get any better. That would have called for everyone to be covered and we won’t be going there with Obama.

The problem with Obama and the new Democratic party is that it doesn’t stand for real Democrats. It is yet another strange amalgamation of voters whose self interest was pandered to. In many ways, it is no different than the Republican party of gilded capitalists, religious crazies and neocons. This new Democratic party is made up of young people, libertarians and pretentious status conscious liberals. There is a nasty streak of cynicism in it as well, as if it’s just so outre to consider helping the poor or abiding by any core Democratic principles. The new Democratic party is just too cool for that. They can write some lengthy, detached policy paper about it and pay some lip service but really, the American demographic has evolved and those people on the brink of insolvency, well, they are the Neanderthals that didn’t make the cut. Moving on.

The PUMA movement is not about revenge. It is not about racism. It’s not about being immature. It is about holding the Democratic party accountable for abandoning its principles and the people who strengthened its foundations. It is about not rewarding a Party that uses voter suppression techniques on its own members. We want to belong to a party that respects us and works with and for us. We don’t want to hand over our votes without representation.

It will either represent us again or it will have to be restructured. That is what PUMA is all about. This goes beyond Obama and Hillary at this point. And from the looks of things, we have a lot of members already.

PUMA Power!

274 Responses

  1. Good morning.

    Well, it seems like most of our new additions to the tank seem to be adapting to our new environment quite well.

    I am so glad. However, lets make sure we do not get any serious ammonia burns.

  2. Riverdaughter,

    I want to support you! Please put up a PAYPAL donation button. I have not doubt there are others who feel the same. And THANK YOU!!

  3. Good morning, UpstateNY. I hope you slept well.

  4. Nicely said.

    Looks like the DNC will learn the hard way that actions have consequences.

  5. The NYT and the Today Show this morning were abuzz with news of a supposed “secret” meeting last night between Obama and Clinton. No one knows what it means, though Veep speculation is rampant. I’m sure the schmundits at both MessNBC and the WSJ Neanderthal Editorial Board are pissed that Obama is even speaking with her without extracting an eternal Vow of Obedience.

    In other news, a Senate Intelligence Committee report says that Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld took the nation to war based on assertions that were not supported by the intelligence. Duh.

    Also breaking: Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead.

  6. Good Morning PUMA’s. That picture is it. Just the right pose, just the right attitude. Your post sums it up for me. This is about taking our party back and not letting them get away with it. We know our party has been stolen, our votes stolen, the nomination stolen, Hillary forced out, our interests set aside. It is undemocratic and unacceptable. I always wondered about “voter fraud.” This goes beyond anything in my wildest dreams. I do not know what I will do in November. I do know what I won’t do and that is vote for Obama and this Democratic Party. All of those that have fallen in lock step behind this farce of an election and candidate will not get my vote. That will only be meaningful if we have solidarity and the numbers to make a statement. PUMA POWER!

  7. bHB: Thank you but I already have a full time job. I believe free speech really should remain free. That’s one of the reasons people are coming here instead of TaylorMarsh. She is running a business and the ad dollars come with strings. I’d like to keep money out of it as much as possible.

  8. BB: morning to you too. Not too bad (fans pointed at bed all night, no a.c.).

    Today is supposed to get in the 90’s…We were going to have a raku firing outside, but we will wait for another day….

    No iphone, no a.c. …No wonder O does not want my vote.

  9. litigator, heh. I remember (faintly) the day Franco died.

  10. RD, Wow, that photo is a wake-up call. It almost takes the place of coffee!

    I get that the DNC wants Barack’s money. But I thought they were in the business of at least pretending) to get people elected. Is it really just a competition to see if Dean can (finally) start raising as much money as Terry Mac?

    Because I think we’ve seen that even Democrats don’t really want to vote for Obama. And we haven’t begun to see an election yet.

    Also, I just sent you an email.

  11. Confluence: Truly Free Speech

  12. Once again you hit it outa the park riverdaughter!

    “The PUMA movement is not about revenge. It is not about racism. It’s not about being immature. It is about holding the Democratic accountable for abandoning its principles and the people who strengthened its foundations. It is about not rewarding a Party that uses voter suppression techniques on its own members. We want to belong to a party that respects us and works with and for us. We don’t want to hand over our votes without representation.”

    That is what so many people just can’t understand. It’s what people like BTD, a good guy in many ways, just can’t seem to get into his noodle with his constant “unity” song. It’s not just that we don’t want Obama. It’s not just that we think Senator Clinton is supremely qualified. We do not want OUR party to be as corrupt as the Republican Party. And it has proved that it is on national television for crying out loud! That is how much they disrespect us. They pull their vote stealing on national television, spout some crap about the “rulz” and expect us to not understand what we saw happen.

    From now on let’s just accept that anyone still spouting drivel about the “rulz” are just “fulz”


  13. Beloved Riverdaughter:

    The path that the Party took this year is not set in stone for all time to come; like all new things, it is fragile. There are two parties in the United States that have a snowball’s chance in hell of affecting meaningful change in the life of the nation. One is the Republican Party, and one is the Democratic Party. I surefire am not a Republican, so by default, I am a Democrat. If I want to be part of the process, the only viable alternative for me is the Democratic Party. The PUMA party is a cute idea, but it is not a force in American life. If all my like-minded Democrats all jump ship this year, we’re abandoning our Party to the hands of people who do not think the way we do, the way Roosevelt, Truman, Kennedy, Johnson, and Humphrey did: the way Hillary and Bill do.

    I do not like what happened this year. I wanted Hillary to be our nominee, and I did everything I could to make it so. A number of events and processes, many of them phenomenally unfair, coalesced to prevent that result, but the Party will not be reformed if there is no one left to reform it. If we leave the Party in a snit, we no longer are insiders; we will have become outsiders. Affecting the changes the Party needs demands the presence of insiders; outsiders have no voice. At the moment, we stand perilously close to becoming outsiders. If there were no hope of ever moving the Party back to its roots, I would encourage you all to do the very thing that many of you now are contemplating. But we must allow ourselves to heal and get on with it.

  14. but, kb’ird, the “I-want-to-understand-you-people, seriously, let’s-have-an-honest-dialogue” D’s would probably disagree.

    Oh well, Evanesco….puff.

  15. UpstateNY, it’s a little known fact that everyone has the right to free speech. But, no one can demand that we listen. The little sweeties have to make it interesting….

  16. Paypal yes, and another insightful post RD, funny that, during this Primary it is actually we who have found our electoral power and that’s a really WONDERFUL thing.
    Of course the Party’s have always known women are the largest demographic in the electorate and non women of color a power unto themselves which really makes obvious the lack of representation in relationship to the Base demographics in Party Leadership roles , thus the ole stand by ping pong women’s privacy with accompanying ring nose.

  17. You go girl and tell those obambots that the Democratic Party logo is a Jackass…which sybolize stubborn strong people who will fight back.

    The Nancy Pelosi/Howard Dean/ Harry Reid and the rest of those traitors…need to be kick to the curb for their horrendeous handling of the people’s trust.

  18. I wonder if the “new” Democratic Party has as credo “be even more obnoxious than possible”.

    Would it have been so terrible to give Hillary and us 2 or 3 days to decompress? Why the put a gun to our collective head and force us to join the church of Obama immediately? We do not depend on his donors list.

    Moreover, there have always been negotiations after the primary season, always, let alone when the “losing” party is one with 18 mio votes, the most ever by anyone anywhere.

    Can anyone be so stupid to think we will take all the intensity we invested in the Hillary candidacy and transfer it to Obama without any further ado?
    The only thing we can do with these intense emotion is to keep them focused AGAINST Obama.

  19. Keep up the good fight fellow PUMA’s and I shall return on Monday…..Looking forward to a good fight and just heard on Fox News that something will happen to Obama in August that will change his world (according to the astrological charts)…..Here’s hoping thats true…Something to do with the fact that he is a LEO and some kind of eclipse happening then….

  20. Wow, I couldn’t have said it better. The DNC and DC insiders think we are running on nothing but emotions and we’ll come back after we
    calm down.” Well, I’m here to say, I am perfectly calm, emotions are collected and I am ready to fight against what they did to Hillary and the Democratic Party. PUMA hits just the right note!

    I would LOVE to have some PUMA bumper stickers, window decals and t-shirts to spread the word on my body and car. I KNOW I’m not alone at here and many more people would join this fight if they knew about it.

    I’m new here, but just wanted to put in my, apparently worthless (according to the DNC), 2 cents. 🙂

    Go, PUMA!

  21. kbir: “But, no one can demand that we listen”.

    heh. Agreed, you would think otherwise though by the demands/entitlement to be heard, no?

    Nah, filtering ammonia is not censorship.

  22. Riverdaughter, Thank you for this site and the message you are supporting. I have been lurking for quite some time and have found this to be my favorite place on the web. I’m writing for the first time to share the letter I mailed today to the DNC and to add my voice to all the others who object to what has happened to the Democratic Party :

    Dr. Dean:

    Four years ago, notwithstanding the Democratic Party’s monumental stupidity in selecting John Kerry as its presidential candidate, I rallied behind the party’s nominee, financially supported him and PACs advocating for him, and even traveled from my red state home [Georgia] at my own expense on my vacation leave to canvas for Kerry in Nevada before the general election.

    Now it’s 2008 and you’ve backed another obvious loser. Were you counting on people like me to “rally behind the candidate” again? Well, here’s your answer: NO WAY IN HELL.

    The behavior of the Democratic National Committee and its anointed presidential candidate these past months has made unmistakably clear that you do not share my values. I don’t know what party you propose to represent but it is not the Democratic Party I have consistently supported, both at the polls and elsewhere, for 30 years. You want to create a new coalition with new party constituents? Fine. You do so without me, my money, and my vote. I am no longer a Democrat. That includes not only your presidential candidate but also any down ballot candidates who have endorsed him.

    Enclosed is my DNC membership card. This is to notify you to remove me from your mailing and telephone call lists immediately.

  23. AMEN!! AMEN!! AMEN!!.

    This IS about holding this party and its presumtive nominee accountable for a long list of undemocratic actions! If we “go along to get along”, NOTHING will change!! (the first item on the agenda should be scrapping this unfair, convoluted system for choosing a nominee!!! )

    Morn Joe made the point that Obama is exactly the kind of candidate the media loves to love. (He also compared him to Carter.) Funny, how in my previous world before it was turned upside down, (turning to Fox for news, despising KOberman,tacitly agree with A Coulter-OMG) I didn’t see that – now I DO!

    (Glad to have found this site – TM’s been taken over by the Obamabots! )

  24. Thank you for this post, RD.

    And for the free speech.

  25. DCDemocrat, I believe that you have articulated sentiments that we have all wrestled with. The thing is, we have cast them aside. I don’t think of this idea as “cute”. I think this movement is an act of courage and a show of strength to force the democratic leadership to take a good hard look at the core that they are betraying.

    I know that some of the more resonable Republicans that I know ( well, there are a few…) wish that there was such an act when the religious wack-jobs took over their party.

    At some point you have to stand up and get them where it hurts to be taken seriously.

  26. The Republican party used to be semi-sane. It was also the party of the rich. The Dems seem to be trying to take the “rich” part for themselves. I don’t get that at all.

  27. UpstateNY,

    I hope you get some relief from the heat soon. Here in the Boston area it feels like March, cold, rainy, and raw. I’m looking forward to some heat, but would just as soon have it stay below 90. I don’t have AC either, but I do have lots of fans. I prefer them to AC, even if I could afford it.

  28. I had to work really late last night and only glossed over last nights post. So this was planned, played out all in the name of $$$. Hillary was forced out and the DNC planned it with the O’s knowledge?


  29. MABlue,

    One thing I have noticed about these new Obama Democrats. They are IMPATIENT. The seem to have NO ability to resist their impulses or delay gratification. They must have everything they want now, now NOW! In this, they resemble my three year old nephew. Even his older brother, age 5, is more patient than these Obamatrons. I don’t respond well to demands, threats, and tantrums.

  30. The thing I really want to hold the Democratic party accountable for is NOT counting the votes.

    We need a party that stands for VOTERS. If we do not hold their feet to the fire on this, I believe we will not have a Democracy in the future. They want to sweep what happened at the RBC meeting under the rug, but we need to continually shine a light on it.

    NO more punishing voters. Count all the votes. NO more caucuses. They violate one of the international standards for elections, secret ballot.
    We need laws in every state about taking your name off the ballot. There is a reason it is illegal to do so in FLorida. It is a very anti-Democratic practice. We need to make sure the Florida law is replicated across the country. Obama won because he took his name off the ballot and MI, thwarted revotes, and then got the RBC committee to steal the election for him.
    No More!

  31. BARACK NEEDS YOU!!!!!!!!
    Polls show Obama cannot win without Hillary voters, its shows women are flocking in great masses to McCain, So now Obama needs the old typical white bitter gun toting working class white less influenced women and men. Hillary has become so important to his candidacy, shes a sweetie. Chicago slicker went to put the mack down on Hill. Bragging about all the dollars he got and how many souls he has brought, offered to pay off her debt and put some “CHANGE” in her pockets. If she prostituted I meant join him and brought in her(HOs)oops voters. He told her to do this for the bro man typo Party. He said come on Hill get jungle fever with us, let me welcome you into My Barack Chocolate City. Tell your HOs damn VOTERS to shut the fuck up (calm down) fall in line and love Barack..Demand they say the YES WE CAN slogan so I can feel their love for me. Now lets go proclaim I am the One and all should kneel under me. A few months later President McCain visit the senate to speak with Senator Obama.

  32. DC Democrat- I actually believed that as a Democrat, I had the moral high ground. In 2000 and 2004, I watched with horror as the Republicans stole the elections. But now I know that the DNC has no standards. The Republicans at least stole the elections from the Democrats, the DNC has stolen this election from its own voters. The Republican elites do not like John McCain, but the RNC did not commit voter fraud to get someone more to the elites’ liking nominated. The RNC did the honorable thing and let the Republican people decide who their nominee should be. I have no illusions about McCain, he will be a Republican president and he place other Republicans in power. However, as an American, as a woman , and as someone that wants to save the Democratic Party, I will not vote for any Democrat that has not supported Clinton in November. It is like chemotherapy, sometimes you have to kill the cancer in order to save the patient.

  33. BB: yeah, I am planning on taking son and myself to my in-laws’ (they have central AC and turn it on as soon as it goes over 75, They are R, you know… pure, pure evil)

    Then need to do some plumbing (oh joy of joys…)

  34. Upstate I am in an upstairs office and our practice is in one of those ” o so chahming suthe’n victorians” and it get hot as the hinges of hell up here.

  35. Brava, Riverdaughter! You’ve hit the nail on the head.

    It is no longer the Democratic Party, it is now the Narcissistic Party – the It’s-All-About-Me Party.

    I will remain a Democrat, vote for McCain in the fall, trust that Obama will be defeated and the Democratic Party taught a hard lesson, then look for Hillary to run in 2012 (barring any miracles at the Democratic convention in August).

  36. DC Democrat:

    Sometimes standing up for what is right is painful.

    The DNC sold out and expected Democrats to fall in line. What lesson did you learn if you fall in line after watching this mockery of a primary season. What message are you sending the DNC?

    When Obama was behind in the popular vote they all yelled ‘if you steal this election from the will of the people…” When he was ahead in electoral votes, it was all about the delegates. What does this message send to YOU– the voter? We don’t respect your vote. We can manipulate the rules anytime we want.

    Our fundamental right as Americans is our ability to Vote. The DNC took that away from you.

    You should be outraged- not a good little soldier and fall in line like they want you to.

  37. Riverdaughter, may you flourish!
    Don’t hesitate to holler for help.
    Excuse me now, while I go reorganize my bookmarks, again, LOL

  38. But if what I read is true, the DNC doesn’t care if McCain is in, they knew that BO probably wouldn’t win, it was the $$$. Now, don’t misunderstand, I am not swaying and voting for the annointed one, but do they care as long as they get the money and congress. And if this is the case, how do we hit them where it hurts?

  39. DC, you really need to back the hell off.

    We are free agents right now. We support Hillary and we are seeing this through.

  40. Gloria Steinham is supporting Obama.

  41. DCDemocrat,

    Don’t you think the DNC will have to recognize us when they are defeated resoundingly in the fall?

    Joining with the pack of fascists taking over the party now is the biggest mistake we could make. Just becaue they call themselves Democrats doesn’t make them so.

    You wrote, “I surefire am not a Republican, so by default, I am a Democrat.”. This is the laziest of attitudes in politics. You should be an American first. If you don’t believe in what the Democratic party is doing, you should leave it. If long-time members leave the party, the party will have to take action.
    By joining with the party now, you tacitly condone what they have done.

    You also said”The PUMA party is a cute idea, but it is not a force in American life.” I’m sure a lot of Whigs were saying this back in 1856. Check out this from wikipedia:

    Attempting to repeat their earlier successes, the Whigs nominated popular General Winfield Scott, who lost decisively to the Democrats’ Franklin Pierce. The Democrats won the election by a large margin: Pierce won 27 of the 31 states including Scott’s home state of Virginia. Whig Representative Lewis Davis Campbell of Ohio was particularly distraught by the defeat, exclaiming, “We are slayed. The party is dead–dead–dead!” Increasingly politicians realized that the party was a loser. Abraham Lincoln, its Illinois leader, for example, ceased his Whig activities and attended to his law business.

    We all know where Abraham Lincoln went after that. Ask the average person, what a Whig was, and see what answers you get.

    Telling us that PUMA is cute, is really a “Sweetie” move. More voter suppression from the part of Obamabots.

  42. Re: DCDemocrat, on June 6th, 2008 at 8:43 am

    “If we leave the Party in a snit, we no longer are insiders; we will have become outsiders.”

    There isn’t a chance in hell you are going to convince anyone with your argument when you refer to our painful and considered decisions to leave the party as “leaving in a snit’.

  43. Hillaryisourchoice.com is asking people to go to http://www.dccc.org and blog

  44. Thank you for this site. I too am done with my party. It’s more than Hillary being pushed out.

    The meeting between O and Hillary for me is the last straw (again, there’s been so many). IF what’s being reported: that O met Hill to unify the party; would be a SLAP in the face. Where was O for 16 mts? Why didn’t he speak up about racism and misogny? hmm, he now needs her supporters? good try, but I won’t fall in line. Too late, not genuine. oh yeah he’s way tooooo inexperienced. Can’t change that!

  45. Hello, everyone.

    I find myself in a postition that I find baffling, but now that everthing is bizarre i guess I should be used to it.

    I am a Hillary supporter who just CAN’T vote for BO, and the idea of voting for mccain turns my stomach.

    Am I in the right place??

  46. That jobs number is all the more reason why we need Hillary.

  47. RD – Your post was exceptionally eloquent today. I gave you linky goodness at my place.

    After I read the Bowers Manifesto, I realized that the Obama Movement was nothing less than an attempt to turn the Democratic Party into the New Plutocratic Party.

    In other words, they want us to become Republicans.

    Well, this woman will never “unify” with people like this. There’s a reason they are not getting core Democratic voters.

    To me P.U.M.A. is not a Party in itself, but a movement within the Democratic Party to take back its true FDR values. Should HRC not be the nominee in August, I will most likely begin participating in Democratic politics at the local level to see if I can influence its direction.

  48. I think the election will be won or lost in Michigan and/or Ohio. If McCain can lock up Virginia and Colorado, lose New Mexico and Iowa, gain New Hampshire, all he would need is Michigan to lock up 275 electoral votes (he can even lose NH and still win 271) without needing Ohio. I think McCain will copy Hillary’s surround the cities strategy and try to win big in rural areas and suburban areas in the Foundry states (and others). They will try to do what they did to Kerry and reduce Obama to urban archipelagos.

    Money is Obama’s biggest advantage, I think. If McCain can at least be competitive (as in Hillary or a bit lower numbers), then he can make that scenario happen. The RNC is more flush than the DNC though but I think Obama will reduce the DNC to irrelevance while McCain will be more dependent on the RNC.

    I don’t know what to think of Wisconsin. There’s erratic numbers coming out of there with Rasmussen saying McCain wins while SUSA says Obama wins there. It was the most competitive blue state in 2004.

  49. WS,
    Obama always does worse than the polls suggest. So, if it is showing the race close, I would call it for McCain.

  50. Missouri is back in contention as well with polls showing its statistically tied. It fell to red territory when the Wright news came out and I think this is a bump from Obama’s delegate win. I think concentrated character and foreign policy attacks by the Republicans can lock up the state.

  51. Mawm, you think the Bradley effect would show up more in the GE rather than a Dem primary?

  52. I have friends who are o supporters, recently moved back to their Memphis hometown after several years living in NYC. They are in their twenties and come from affluent backgrounds.

    They asked me to go look at a home they are thinking of purchasing. The biggest drawback to me was the location- the block is bound by major city intersections and the street is one-way during school hours.

    Anyway, they weren’t totally sold on the house, so i suggested they look in my urban rehab area. I live in a wonderful, joyous mixed race and income neighborhood. Walking your dogs and enjoying the unique and colorful scenery here is a joy. It is quiet and a tree and garden lovers paradise.

    The kicker is that my friends were not interested in living here- they were anxious about the racial makeup of my ‘hood. It is one thing, apparently, to support the idea of post-racism, but another to actually live it.

    Oh, the irony!

  53. WS, I don’t think it is the bradley effect. I think the way they conduct the polls is flawed somehow. I’m not sure what it is, but it consistently showed him doing better than he actually did.

    I think the pundits chalking it up to the bradely effect is really intellectually lazy. I just don’t believe that many people would feel they had to lie to pollsters. Definitely not on that consistent a basis, and over so many different demographics.

  54. The Democratic party finally crossed the line. PUMA is a movement to hold them accountable. As long ast the Dems take us for granted (Oh, they’ll vote for Obama – where else can they go?) we have no power.

    Or maybe the Dems think we’ll just sit this election out and come back later. We’ve seen how Obama uses voter supression. We are not staying home.

    As a PUMA, I want to call every Dem politician to account. The Dems have to earn my vote.

    And I’m ready to work with anyone who shares my concerns and goals. There are plenty of Republicans who can help us.

    We have got to be strong and tough. Nobody will ever take me for granted again.

    GO PUMA!

  55. Hi soupcity! Welcome.

    I feel the same way you do. Kick off your shoes and stay awhile.


  56. I agree with DCDemocrat. To me, the idea of using the country to send the party a message is backwards. i don’t place any particular value on the party, except to the extent that it offers better solutions for the country than what else is out there. The party itself can be institutionally bankrupt, and right now I’d say that is a good assessment (for all of the reasons claimed here and on other pro-Clinton sites), but I have no interest in “sending the party a message” by encouraging the election of John McCain–someone I have nothing against personally (in fact, I have much less against him personally than I do against Obama), but who would be a danger to us and to the world.

    I am completely agnostic about what to do with the party: fight for what’s right from within, start another movement, whatever. But i would advocate separating that issue from the issue of whom to vote for in November. That does take away the most important weapon we have, but it’s a weapon I am not comfortable using because…well, see the second sentence.

  57. I, too, joined the PUMA Pac as soon as I read about it at this site.

    I then sent an email to Howie with “Nobama” in the subject line along with the explanation in the body that I, a lifelong Democrat, will not be voting for Obama this fall and no longer want to associate with this version of the Democrat(ic) Party after watching the way its leaders, including its presumptive nominee, conducted themselves this primary season.

    My decision is based not on anger – though I’ve felt plenty of it over these past months; what self-respecting Democrat and woman wouldn’t? It’s based on my determination to work for a party that once again advocates for those people considered irrelevant by the Obama Democrats. That’s why I’m a PUMA.

    Thanks, RD, for the haven during this stormy time. And for a constructive idea of where to put our energies.

  58. becca:

    Oh my goodness! I had a discussion with my husband about that point. My sister-in-law lives in a racially mixed neighborhood in Atlanta. She lives the ideal of unity, yet she is called racist by elite liberals and the media because she supported Clinton.

    What type of neighborhoods do all the Congressmen and Senators live in. I expect very secluded segregated ones. They always want to tell you what you should do but hardly ever lead by example.

  59. Thank God for the PUMAs. I happened to get a letter from Dr. Dean this morning informing me of the “major policy change” that the DNC will no longer take money from lobbyists. (I know, I know, I have requested several times to be taken off the mailing list). I’d like to share my response here:

    Dear Dr. Dean:

    The real major policy change at the DNC is that the Party no longer stands for counting every vote nor for women’s rights. I am a woman first, and American second, and then (for my entire adult life – 20 years) a Democrat. As a woman, I can no longer support the Democratic Party because it stood by silently and even took part in the vile sexism spewed at Hillary Clinton on a daily basis throughout this primary. As an American, I can no longer support the Democratic Party after witnessing the debacle at the RBC last Saturday, wherein the committee halved the votes for FL & actually reapportioned the MI election results to give Obama all of the uncommitted delegates plus 4 of Hillary Clintons. They did this even though Obama purposefully removed his name from the MI ballot for political reasons and was solely responsible for denying the people of MI the opportunity to vote for him. Please tell Ms. Brazile, that my mama taught me that was stealing.

    I have already re-registered as “Unaffiliated” (in fact, I sent you my torn up Dem. voter’s registration card, not that you obviously noticed or cared). I will not sanction the sexism and the vote stealing by the DNC by supporting your chosen candidate in the fall – and Obama was chosen in spite of the will of the people to satisfy the avarice of the members of the DNC. Furthermore, it is not up to Hillary Clinton to unify the Party – it is up to your chosen candidate to unify the Party, and he has stated repeatedly that he doesn’t need my vote to win. Good luck with that. I emphasize again, and please make no mistake: my vote for McCain (in NC!) this fall is solely the fault of the DNC. It is not a “revenge” vote – it is a vote based on the principles I believe in as a woman and as an American.

    Most sickening, this email you have sent shows you are so beholden to this unqualified man first and foremost because he is a male and because he raises money to the extent that you are now taking marching orders from him regarding lobbyists’ money – all despite the fact that his own campaign takes money from lobbyists. The hypocrisy is too much for me to stomach. The DNC has proven itself to be as craven as the RNC and has lost whatever moral authority it had in the aftermath of FL in 2000. I am especially disappointed in you, personally, Dr. Dean, as I had supported your nomination for President in 2004 – however, after seeing your inept leadership of the DNC, I am extremely happy that you did not win. Please remove my name from your mailing list and do not conduct me again. You have lost all credibility.

  60. RE: DCDemocrat, on June 6th, 2008 at 8:43 am Said:

    “If we leave the Party in a snit, we no longer are insiders; we will have become outsiders.”

    Not exactly going to bring others over to your side of the argument by describing the very painful and considered process we are going through “leaving in a snit”. A snit ain’t the half of it, amigo.

  61. Arabella Trefoil:

    Thanks for the welcome. There are so few places to go now. I am loving the PUMA. My sentiments exactly.

    I have voted dem for 25 years and have never felt so left out in my life.

  62. Becca,

    Exactly, my partner and I were talking to each other about the same thing. We are both white, and we are planning to buy a house in Durham, NC in a rehab district. We have both lived in different areas around the country that are very racially mixed.

    We were looking at a house yesterday that needs a lot of work, and there are several around it that are boarded up.

    A lady that lives across the street from where we were looking came out, and asked us if we were thinking about buying the house. We said yes, and that we were looking to move in not rent it out. She was elated. She said she was hoping good people would move in around there because the boarded up houses attract crime. She was really nice, explaining how she had inherited the house from her mother.

    Afterwards, my partner and I talked. I said to him, “See. They will call us racist, but we are the ones really doing the work of Uniting the races”. It is people working and living together that will bring about a post-racial world. Young affluent whites think that voting for Obama makes them civil-rights heros, but I wonder how far they would actually go to make MLK’s dream a reality.

  63. Here is my new talking point:

    If the Obama fans would like to bring me around, they need to pressure Obama, not me. I’m no longer a member of the Democratic party, so party unity does nothing to sway me. If they pressure him to start talking about universal health care, media ownership, accountability of the Bush admin, etc, I’m not sure if he’d win my vote, but he might win others.

    C’mon, Obama fans… ready, set, go. Stop with the bullyboy tactics and light a fire under your dear leader’s behind.

  64. Hola soupcity!


    You will find many in here feel like you do.

    After years as a D I became an I a few months ago. Wife remains a D. Cat and son are not registered yet. We will vote third party this year.

    Enjoy the site.

  65. I don’t feel uneasy at all. The only way for us to get power is to use the power of the voting booth. Every one has her own opinion about voting for McCain.IMO, Obama and his friends are counting on me to be “reasonable.” Sorry, those days are over.

    They think I’ll suck it up one more time and vote for their candidate because “what else can she do?”

    Staying at home and not voting is not an option. The Obamatons want to haka us into a state of despair. They don’t depress me, these Obama people. I am energized and I won’t let them make me feel powerless.

    PUMA will hold them to account.

  66. I agree with much of what you say, but a President Obama is clearly better than a President McCain.

    And if the ticket is Obama/Clinton, they will win in a landslde.

  67. Riverdaughter, your writing is always extremely lucid. This post, in particular was great. It really hits the nail on the head. For me it help clarify in my own mind what I was already coming to grips with.

    May the force be with you!

  68. Just want to say that my Hillary or McCain petition is still getting signatures (330 so far – I remove all the spambots, so they are all unique sigs.). I sent it to the SuperDelegates this week, and I will be sending it to the DNC every week until the Convention.

    The petition basically gives the PUMA manifesto. I personally will never vote for McCain – he is a terrible candidate – but I won’t vote Obama either.

    If you feel so inclined and have not yet signed, please check it out.

  69. Check out the editorial in today, Friday’s, NY Times,
    with an article demonstrating that Clinton would win (but not Obama) in a hypothetical match-up with McCain, right now, using new polling data.

  70. Mawm, thats true. Off the top of my head, I’d say that polls in MA, CA, TX, OH, PA, PR, SD, NH, and I’m sure some others I forget had him overperforming in the polls. Could that also be due to Hillary’s strength? I think its a little bit of both and I think the media had an effect where they were incredulous that people actually supported Hillary and not Obama that could quiet actual support for Clinton. I really want to know how the media will react in the GE. They have their choice of media darlings.

  71. Riverdaughter, with allies like you we will be singing Madame President in the streets of DC in January!
    Thank you for saying so eloquently and accurately what we Pumas are all about. Many of us may vote McCain in November. Many will make other choices. We will not support Obama. Our rational and defensible reasons become clearer with every passing news cycle, as Obama gets tarnished and more tarnished by his own scandals and missteps. The collusion of the DNC in this debacle also becomes more apparent every day. The goals of Puma PAC are more important than ever — supporting Hillary, reforming the Dem party, opposing the colluding and sexist media, and supporting pols who help us
    We really are a burgeoning force.

  72. DownriverDem, on June 6th, 2008 at 10:05 am Said:

    I agree with much of what you say, but a President Obama is clearly better than a President McCain.

    And if the ticket is Obama/Clinton, they will win in a landslde.

    Hillary should never be on a ticket with Obama. He is a fraud. A president Obama is a welcome to killing Democracy. Obama should be allowed to fail on his too bad he is taking the Democratic party with him.

  73. Hi Rich! I am glad you are back!

    Now, now, let’s not be alarmists here. Life will go on and the world will be OK, no matter which party controls the WH and congress.

  74. Riverdaughter,

    A truly great post that sums everything up exactly. I too have come over from TM, not understanding the sudden change. I changed my name as I feel “done for”.

    The ad dollars control content – but I’d probabkly do as RD or some of the other pro-hillary or anti-obama blogs: take the ad down if threatened. No Quarter has taken a company’s ad down because the company was being threatened by Obama people.

    I agree that the PUMA movement is one to regain thetrue democratic party. I have been to enough blogs and read enough artciles in which elected officials feel that they have regained it back from the centrist Clintons and made it “the progressive, socially just, liberal party” it was before. I disagree. I find no integrity, no honer, and certainly no justice in what has occurred throughout this campaign. Republicans discuss how we have turned on our own which they would not do. In fact, in discussing Lieberman leaving the dems and working with the reps, they will admit that they disagree but they allow for the differences. I think they have learned hard lessons from the past 8 years. Maybe the dems will in a few years as well.

    I will vote McCain. I feel more comfortable with him in the presidency than Obama, and since Congress is democratic, there will be a checks and balance system in place. it will give the dems 4 years to regroup and think about the mistakes that were made now and rectify them.

  75. UpstateNY, on June 6th, 2008 at 10:03 am Said:
    Hola soupcity!

    Hola back atcha, am seriously considering changing affiliation as well. I still can’t believe that the DNC has no clue what they have wrought here.

  76. So, I have a question. When we first saw the PUMA being born, it was a party that was independant of the Democratic Party. Also, the PUMA PAC charter on the blog says one of the goals is to support the candidacy of Hillary.

    This post seems to indicate that the PUMA is holding the democrats accountable, i.e. – are we looking for them to call us/woo us back? Is this not only about Hillary, i.e., if they drop Hillary like a hot potato, but do everything else right (How? When?), are we willing to overlook their past faults? What if the Republican Party under McCain becomes, transforms, magically, into a nicer, freer, more equal place, that respects everyone and ensures freedom for all? It’s not that unbelievable, after all that’s what the Republicans were like in Lincoln’s time.

    What if we’re in the middle of one more Big Party Flip in US politics?

  77. Well said. All of a sudden it’s captive by the digital and chattering classes. Real people not needed anymore. Arianna will reconvene the party at her salon. Who needs a convention?

  78. I am with most of you and see HRC as the only option to bring our country together, but is voting McCain our only choice? Can’t we go to Denver? Isn’t there something positive we can do with all this anger and frustration besides write about it?

  79. I am extremely rude to riverdaughter,

    I enjoy your posts so much and have during these many months, thank you so much!!!

  80. we are witnessing the death of the last chance for universal health care, and we’re supposed to bliss out on UNITY™? no thanks, DCDemocrat.

    see, i don’t live in a gated community – as part of my job, i try to find health care for the poorest of the poor as part of a public mental health system. and what i see is ugly. obama supporters don’t have to look, but the poor and disadvantaged are still here among us. hillary would have helped them as president.

  81. It is OK, soupcity. RD and Rico (our bar tender) are used to us…they know we are grateful.

  82. I want to let everyone know that there’s an organization out there trying to extort money from you. They’re claiming to be a PAC, but you can’t even get the paperwork for a PAC submitted in three days.



  83. What campskunk said. Thanks for saying it 5 by 5.

  84. I’ve been thinking a lot about Progressive Blogosphere 2.0 and hope to be able to think about it more now that I’m soon to be completely finished with science. (Turnin’ in da bad boy in a couple hours.) Now that I am not inclined to support Dems who stood silent in this race, I’ll have more free time as well.

    Anywhoooo, I’d like us to have a deeper discussion on our principles. The fauxgressive blogosphere was more about winning elections than in governing and that is a large reason why they so blatantly failed to hold themselves to any standard. The old-gaurd/new-gaurd liberal intelligentsia has become a sham. We need to show them how its done.

  85. “I have been to enough blogs and read enough artciles in which elected officials feel that they have regained it back from the centrist Clintons and made it “the progressive, socially just, liberal party” it was before. I disagree.”

    This is truly Backwards Land. The Clintons are the progressive, socially just, liberal — and inclusive –Democrats. The Obama-ites are plutocrats who sneer at the working and middle class.

  86. Just a quick thank you. It is very comforting to check in, read the new writings and know your not the only one to feel that way you do… Bob Beckel just said, its ok, the Hilary people will come around in Nov. I am sure millions of people will, but just by the influx of people on this blog, I think they are wrong. I hope they are wrong!!! I might not write much, but I am a PUMA, and will be here. Thanks again my friends…

  87. Cumpskunk and Arabella: me three!

  88. Yay a bartender!!

    campskunk… my brother died last fall as a result of long time mental and physical illness..

    It was an absolute nightmare trying to get help for him , hoop after hoop after hoop to jump through.

    But now that healthcare is a non-starter….

  89. Hi Laney: “Thanks again my friends” my friends?, my friends? No McCain talking points please 😉

  90. Hi Alan: Are you poor?

  91. We still don’t know what the Republicans have up their sleeves. They always have a dirty trick to use in the GE.

  92. Has Alan evanescoed/expulsoed? puff. oh my.

  93. Hi all PUMAs! I used to post at Taylor Marsh, but I think this will be my new site. TM is now behind Obama.

    RD, I love your post! Keep up the amazing work!

  94. Yes. I have been silenced.

  95. The DNC is going to pay dearly when all of the hardworking members of the party stop giving to them and refuse to vote for a man who epitomizes everything that many of us have despised in George W. Bush! I will not be a party to that.

    Right now, I think that the only thing that many of the SD’s are seeing, are dollar signs what they don’ t realize is that a one time big money payout will not carry them or the party during the “lean” years. The analogy I have been using, in trying to make my argument is this. Let’s say tomorrow you win $20,000. Seems like alot? Let’s say on the same day you lose your job. Does that payout seem so big now? No. Because when you factor in mortage or rent, groceries, gas, etc…that $20,000 is going to go fast. It may not be sexy, but the steady paycheck that remains constant carries you over in lean times. These SD’s we be faced with the cold hard fact that the small donations from “bitter” people like us have dried up. That DNC list that Howard Dean is holding wont generate the monies the party will need long term. A monthly $20 donation per Democratic household may not be as sexy as Obama’s bundled cash, but combined with the $20 donations of many others, it means a great deal. Obama’s list will not mean anything to the DNC after November, because when he loses big, the bundling lobbyists will be looking for their next “cash cow”. He [Obama] will be an afterthought.

  96. I know how you feel. However, silence, like obedience, can be a virtue.

  97. Yesterday someone explained Haka, but every time I see the word It makes me smile—-I went to the Watership Down “rabbit dictionary” and Hraka means droppings, excrement. How appropo. Also Hillary does what she needs to do and WE do what we need to do—NOT vote for him. And it will send a message loud & clear.

  98. Upstate: I’d rather be a person of my word, but I couldn’t help myself and there was (unusually) a comment I wanted to support.

    As for not worrying about it and the world being OK, it will be for me, I suspect. But a few months ago I wrote that a vote for Obama was an essentially selfish feel-good vote, while a vote for Clinton was a vote for people who wouldn’t be OK unless they have a government that defends and advocates for them. To the extent that Obama would defend and advocate for the interests of poor and otherwise oppressed people more than McCain would–admittedly a low bar–I feel obliged to suggest that PUMAism is the feel-good option (I won’t say selfish because I’m not seeing any of that), while a vote for Obama is a vote to defend those who need it.

    I can stick it out for four, eight, twelve years of Republican rule to get a progressive Democratic party, lucky me. Lots of people can’t.

  99. Laney – I come here often for counter-haka.

    We’re not “coming back.”

    I laugh at these people. They remind of the scene in “Kramer vs. Kramer” where the Meryl Streep character tells her husband she is leaving him. She gives lists of things he has to do for himself now. Dustin Hoffman refuses to take her seriously.

    My favorite part is where Streep gives him the cleaning tickets and says “You. You will pick up the dry cleaning..”

  100. This is sort of off-topic, but:

    I’ve noticed that some in the blogosphere are declaring their acceptance of Rev. Wright and Farrakhan like a badge of pride. And to be sure, there are some things that Wright in particular has said that didn’t bother me in the least. However, there were some things that really, really did bother me — there is no cultural idiom that excuses blaming a young woman for asking for her own murder (Natalee Holloway) or justifies spreading lies and ignorance about HIV. You can critique racial privilege in the media without suggesting a young woman was “asking for it.” That’s repulsive, plain and simple, and if it’s enlightened to gloss over that so as to appear hip and accepting, then I guess I’m not enlightened. So be it.

    Also, I don’t get how statements from figures like Farrakhan about Jews, for example, get to be “contextualized” and “nuanced” when Bill Clinton got reamed for dogwhistling by using the words “fairy tale.” Some consistency, please.

    Just needed to say that.

  101. plural –

    This is truly Backwards Land. The Clintons are the progressive, socially just, liberal — and inclusive –Democrats. The Obama-ites are plutocrats who sneer at the working and middle class.


    They call us Bubbas.

    As I said elsewhere:

    Hi, I’m madamab. I’m a 40-year-old Jewish woman with an advanced degree living in Manhattan.

    I am a Bubba.

  102. Litigatormom,

    I think the term you’re looking for is SPUNDITS.


    Truly Free Speech could be the basis for a new party name, the Free Speech Party, or better yet, the Confluence Party.

  103. DCDemocrat is spreading the message all over talkleft too. Just wants us to all get aboard the Unity/Pony/bandwagon/train.

    However DCDemocrat, who claims to be a supporter of Senator Clinton’s shows that he/she/it belongs over with the Obamacrat Misogynistic Party when he/she/it condescends about our “cute” idea. We left “cute” behind a long time ago. Maybe about puberty? Problem Obamacrats have with talking to women like us is that no matter how hard they try they just can’t see us as equals.

    We are here because we believe in what PUMA stands for. We are angry, we are focused, and we are determinded. Calling our ideas “cute” is a really silly way to combat those things IMHO.

    PUMAs are grown up cats not kittens. We don’t need other folks to make up our minds for us.

  104. Dear Alan
    You seem to have missed some important moments in this last campaign… my I remind you that Doona Brazille (?) has outline the new party.. AA”s, youth and “educated” class.

    You seemed to have missed the use of caususes to defeat the popular vote.

    You seemed to have missed the offer for re-vote in MI and FL (paid re-vote) being unacceptable to BO.

    You seemed to have missed the special treatment of MI and FL.. voters.

    It is in the end all about what this party has become… If BO was so concerned about poor people, he could have gone to WVA oy KY… but he did not.. Poor people of a certain color might not matter. But then again the poor people in his district in IL didn’t matter much either… just ask them.

    Also Alan, I am not a sore loser because what you don’t understand.. we all lost.. every single person that is a member of the so called Democratic party.

    Welcome to the PUMA party..

    And a note on racism.. since you brought it up. There is no illusion worse than the importance of the skin color — none.
    It has caused mankind the greatest grief. Black on white, white on black.. take your choice… It is all racism.

  105. I am reading several contradictory themes. I am wondering if we should focus on fighting for the party to get back to its business of those “invisible people”.

    The Republican party is not an option for me. How do the rest of the folks here feel?
    If we leave the party then are voices will be lost. The Republicans don’t care about our voices either. So does that mean we remain loyal to the party and fight for it refusing to let it go over the cliff like the republican party?

    We can’t have this jump ship movement and fight for the party at the same time. Just a thought.

  106. Also:

    [I] feel obliged to suggest that PUMAism is the feel-good option (I won’t say selfish because I’m not seeing any of that), while a vote for Obama is a vote to defend those who need it.

    With respect, on what evidence are you basing your assumption Barack Obama will stand up for the working class? He has no history whatsoever of doing so. He has called us bitter racist rubes. His promises mean nothing. He will throw anyone under the bus, including his own grandmother and Reverend Wright.

    He is a Republican in Democratic clothing. That option is no more attractive than a McCain Presidency.

    Please believe that I am not trying to make myself feel good. I personally feel really, really horrible that the Party has selected this unqualified and unelectable man over Hillary. But as a principled and rational person, I refuse to vote for Obama.

  107. Hi All: As I understand it, PUMA is a movement, not yet a party, but could be a party, so to speak, if the Democrats don’t want the Democrats in Exile back… don’t want to make reforms, don’t show goodwill and due diligence.

    For me, this is a trial separation. Get on good behavior, DNC, and maybe I will come back.

    I am getting this kind of comment all the time — “Personally I think you would have more leverage getting the party to listen to you if you were an active member of the party. Otherwise, you’re just someone unwilling to participate in the party who is complaining that probably won’t get far. Just my 2 cents.”

    I think I have more leverage as an exile willing to return under the right circumstances — a showing of goodwill and due diligence from the party — than as a member who is taken for granted.

    As a Democrat in Exile, what I say is, “I am NOT declaring who I will vote for at this time. Whoever it is will have to earn my vote. It cannot be taken for granted anymore. The process let me down, and I don’t plan on being a DemoBot when votes are not respected as they should be in the primary process.

    My advice to Democrats. Show goodwill and due diligence, admit to the relative illegitimacy of this year’s process, promise and move quickly for reform that shows more respect for the will of the people, and less respect for centralized power.

    This is a trial separation… you know what trial separations involve, right? Generally, good behavior and negotiation, and no further abuse.

    Memo to Obama: “I would like to offer this thought as you look to the future to attempt to unify the party. If you wish to truly unify the party and to bring back Democrats in exile, like me, you need to not only promise primary reform, you need to deliver it, soon. Primary. Reform. If, as many say, you are now the “boss” of the Democrats, start using that bully pulpit to work for primary reform.

    You might be tempted to think that many Democrats in exile, like me, would be impressed by you deciding to ask Senator Clinton to be your running mate. It could be helpful, depending on the circumstances of your offer but, quite frankly, if you do not show some recognition of how the process that got you nominated is seriously flawed, you will not be able to win the trust of people like me. Integrity, in my opinion, demands recognition of the ups and the downs, not just the ups.

    I recommend that you clearly recognize the messiness of the DNC’s current primary process and how it destroys our ability to come up with a valid and definitive answer about the will of the people. Would that be asking for too much? For you to recognize the messiness of the process and how it does actually reflect badly on the full legitimacy of your alleged nomination.

    Please consider what it really requires to heal the party. It isn’t just about Senator Clinton, it is mostly about the integrity of the primary process.”

  108. Democrats against Obama


  109. UpstateNY,
    OMG, I retract, thank you my gal pals, my PUMA pals, My Hil buds…. Never again, “my friends.”

  110. We can leave and let the party implode. We have clearly made our voices heard, but now of us are now currently in any powerful positions within the DNC. The only power we weld with with our feet and our voices. If we go along with this shame, we are no better than Republican sheep who vote against their own best interest time and again.

    This Democratic leadership, rather than spending the last 2 years in Congressional power to overhaul voting in this country have instead decided that if they cannot beat the Republicans they will create their own “fictional’ narrative and expect us to get in line. You know the old saying used to be that trying to herd Democrats is like trying to heard cats. Well guess what, I’m now a P.U.M.A.!!

  111. Linda C.,

    “Yes, We Can”!

    Your voice is not lost in leaving the party. Staying with the party when they don’t listen to your voice is surest way to continue to be unheard.

    They will know that PUMA are Democrats. They will be looking for answers when Obama loses in November. PUMA will be there with a full set.

    Then, if they want to win in 2012, they will have to recognize us.

  112. correction [none of us]

  113. DC Democrat – The current Democratic Party means nothing to me. It has morphed into just another organization headed by corrupt, greedy elitists. So, thanks, but no thanks. Even as a member of the Party, I still noted for the best qualified candidates at all levels. That’s why I voted for a Republican sheriff; the Democrat was a bully. Hmm, kind of reminds me of the Anointed One.

    Angie – Great letter to Dean; I couldn’t have said it better.

    Alice – Obama could say he supports everything I do, and I would not believe him. His ever-changing positions depending on the audience tells me he is not to be trusted.

    WS – Don’t forget AR. Hillary would win it easily; now McCain will.

    Yes, I am angry about how Hillary and her supporters have been treated. So, maybe a tiny piece of me wants revenge, but the much bigger consideration is who is more qualified to be President. And, it’s not even close–McCain will get my vote unless he picks somebody like Inhofe for V-P. Then I’m not sure what I will do. The one certainty is that I will not vote for Barack Obama.

  114. Rich, I meant it when I said I was glad to see you. You are true to your word, as far as I am concerned.

    I understand how you feel about ability to weather the storm depending of layers of comfort.

    It is just a pet peeve of mine, when I hear fellow Americans thinking too highly of themselves and their role in the world. I understand hegemony, believe me.

  115. Great idea from Hillary forum.

    Be a Sweetie and Keep in Touch
    This idea just in (inspired by some of your posts). I don’t think just e-mailing our future Madam President for just that one night will do it. So let’s make it our mission to call, write and/or e-mail her once a day to never quit and don’t give up. Remember, despite the media and traitors, this is far from over. Let’s send her a little reminder everyday, that 18 million people still support HER!

    Thanks so much, Starr. Friends, our fondest wish for our country is to have the best president possible, and we know that’s Senator Clinton. Please help her to stay in the race by calling, writing, sending a carrier pigeon – anything to let our girl Hill know we’re behind her 100%!

    Call 703-469-2008, or write http://www.hillaryclinton.com/help/contact/. It doesn’t have to be anything long or drawn out – just words of kindness, support and encouragement – what Senator Clinton gives to us every day.

    She needs us.

  116. I feel as though I will vote for McCain.

    And on the back of my neck, I feel the hay-scented breath of Unity Pony.

  117. Since 1980 Reagan Democrats were the most sought after group of voters. Why? Because they flexed their muscle and bucked the party. Republicans pandered to them, and were very successful. Bill Clinton was the only Dem who was able to talk to these people, and he won two terms.

    PUMA women, latinos, Jewish, and LGBT voters will make an impact by defeating Obama. We will become the new Reagan Democrats. We will be the most sought after demographic in politics. But we HAVE to flex our muscle. If we don’t, we will be folded into all the other ignored groups the DNC is taking for granted.

  118. yes, i am a bubba, too. my grandfather was a sharecropper in mississippi until he bought land with his bonus in the 1930s. my father went to medical school on a state scholarship, and i’m a psychologist, but we’re still bubbas.

    thing is, my grandfather wasn’t any dumber than my father and i may be… he just had to start working at an age where most kids are still in school. that’s the only difference.

    bill clinton knows. he went to cambridge as a fulbright scholar, but his father was a traveling salesman. my family was doing the same thing, right across the river from him.

    we’re all just dumbass rednecks who can’t forget the origin of the democratic pary and its traditional base.

  119. At first I started this “if I were in their shoes” routine thinking that I’d come up sympathetic to Obama supporter’s recent actions. I’m actually having some difficulty in understanding some of the Obama supporters’ behavior. If Hillary were the recently presumptive nominee, 1) I would be dancing in the street and huging every Obama supporter (1a) I would be asking Hillary to immediately reach out with respect and humility to Obama), 2) I would be hoping to work with them on getting ALL our issues addressed, 3) I would be sympathizing with their feelings and apologizing for any untoward indiscretions from my side, 5) I would be hoping, not assuming, that Obama’s delegates and superDs would consider supporting our candidate and 5) I would definitely be asking Obama, what is it that we can do to make this thing whole again.

    Funny, but I haven’t seen any of this yet.

  120. Oh, UpstateNY, That’s great. Enjoy the cool air. I just heard we are getting the heat this weekend. I’ll think of you as I sit in front of my powerful vortex fans.

  121. Mawm,

    Where is Garychapelhill? I miss him.

  122. I”ve decided to delist myself from mass email lists that soliciting funding for groups like the DNC, DCC, etc..

    When I am asked the reason I am entering PUMA.

  123. No Arabella, no…McCain…bad. Intervention time?

  124. Elixir,

    They DON’T want us.

  125. BB, me too. Where is gary?

  126. Boston,
    Gary started a new job Monday, and I we have been looking for a House to buy.

    He told me he is going to try to post tonight.

    He is NOT riding the Unity pony either.

  127. Mark –

    “For me, this is a trial separation. Get on good behavior, DNC, and maybe I will come back. ”

    Your entire comment is well articulated. You made some new points too. One thing I love about this place is that I’m meeting new people and reading new ideas.

    Your comment was in the category named:

    “Yes! Yes! That’s what I meant to say, but I didn’t even know I felt that way in the first place.”


  128. Riverdaughter,

    I agree with the philopshy behind PUMA movement. I’m finished supporting a broken and complicit Democratic party. I’ve sent my form to offically unaffiliate myself in the state of New Jersey and will vote as my conscience dictates in November.

    That being the case, I cannot support the appointed nominee of the Democratic party, Barack Obama. Neither can I support John McCain and the Republican agenda he represents.

    Assuming the Green Party likely nominee is Cynthia McKinney, I’m there. She’s a true progressive who left the Democratic party because it no longer defends the democratic process (counting ALL the votes) or the progressive policies that she believes are important.

  129. Mawn: “He is NOT riding the Unity pony either.”

    Heh. I was starting to wonder….. (not really) Please say hi to him for me, will you.

  130. Is riding the Unity Pony anything like riding the white horse?

  131. Soup City,

    You are in the right place. I feel the same way you do. I could never vote for Obama or McCain. I don’t know yet what I’ll do in November, but I’ll figure something out. I wish Hillary would either hang in and fight or run as independent, but I don’t think she would leave the Democratic Party. We are free to do what we believe in. We can still support her in her efforts to clean up the mess.

  132. UpstateNY, I’m having lunch with him at 12:30. I will let him know. Thanks.

  133. I haven’t given up on Hillary yet. We have a chance of scaring the stuffing out of the delegates who thought we’d come back.

  134. Mawm: “If we don’t, we will be folded into all the other ignored groups the DNC is taking for granted.”

    Thank you! I don’t understand how “falling in line” does ANYTHING to make our voices heard, loud and clear.

    If anything, it will only further embolden the party elders to continue business as usual. You can vote for Dems in the “down-ticket” contests to ensure a potential McCain administration doesn’t get its way. While reminding those other Dems that in two years you’ll be ready to boot out those Dem incumbents who have proven spineless in since ’06 and complicit in the ’08 primary sham.

    I’m genuinely open to suggestions that will ensure our voices are heard throughout this election, without voting for Obama. All ears.

  135. Elixir, we are coprolites (fosilized dung) to the O’s. Remeber the “old coalition”. I am taking my vote somewhere else.

  136. Alan @ 10:20,

    Please – we don’t need no stinkin’ obamabots here. You see, we’re free! And, we will make our mark, come November. Go play in the traffic…


  137. Mawn, you lost me at 11;04.

  138. They are getting desperate.

    Clinton supporter says campaign aide looked to use racial tension

    CAMDEN, N.J. (AP) — A Democratic congressman is accusing Hillary Rodham Clinton’s campaign of trying to exploit tensions between Jews and blacks.

    New Jersey Congressman Rob Andrews was a Clinton supporter. But he tells the Newark Star-Ledger that a call from a top member of Clinton’s organization shortly before the Pennsylvania primary disturbed him. The New Jersey Democrat says the Clinton aide explicitly discussed a strategy of winning Jewish voters by exploiting racial tensions.

    The paper quotes Andrews as saying “there have been signals coming out of the Clinton campaign that have racial overtones.” He declined to identify the caller by name, but says it was “a high-ranking person in the campaign.” Andrews says the call came after he angered the Clinton camp by making positive comments about Obama.

    The Star-Ledger quotes a Clinton spokesman a denying the accusation, and calling it “sad and divisive.”


  139. riding the white horse is an expression that means doing heroine. I think you would need to be on that drug to go along with the Unity BS.

  140. DownListen,

    That is exactly what they did in SC. They accused Clinton of doing what they were doing. Racial division is how Obama wins. Now he wants to try to say that all his problems with the Jewish vote are based on Clinton.

    His campaign is so despicable.

  141. Just sent this note to Hillary at http://www.HillaryClinton.com/contacts

    Dear Senator Clinton,

    In advance of tomorrow’s meeting I’m sending these words of support. Please tune out all extraneous noise and consider the most fortunate path for yourself over the next few months. I’m sure you will. You have displayed exemplary judgment throughout your campaign and I expect no less. You will continue to be an inspiration to millions of Americans no matter what the plan of action.

    Thank you and best of luck tomorrow.

    Your supporter.

  142. Good morning and thank you, riverdaughter! I love this website. I sent my letter to Dean yesterday and think your whole post should be sent to him.

    I’ve been a registered democrat since I was 18 (and surrounded by republicans all my life – I’m in a conservative location – even was crazy enough to marry one) and I’m disgusted with the party. Hillary is my President. Please tell me she will not be VP.

    I hear there is a video showing Michelle Obama as racist. Frankly, I don’t want my president to be someone who has hatred for any group. I’ve fought discrimination all of my professional life. I’m reading this website and others and would appreciate links and info from people so that I can get up to speed on the video and other things that demonstrate that Obama is not the right candidate. I want to continue emailing Dean with the evidence and Comedy Central too – the Y Gen kids watch those (Jon Stewart and Colbert) maybe we can get them to question Obama.

    Thanks again for doing this! By the way, I posted as Dragonfly yesterday on the PUMA Pac page. I have been a wreck all week but after yesterday afternoon’s posts by people on this website and the PUMAs, I felt great hope and solidarity with you all. It’s great not to feel alone.

  143. Thanks Mawn.

  144. Kenoshamarge said: “Problem Obamacrats have with talking to women like us is that no matter how hard they try they just can’t see us as equals.”

    Please don’t forget us “fellas” who are here because we know that Hillary was the right choice and feel disenfranchised by the DNC. It’s not just a “woman thing” after all…


  145. UpstateNY, My exercise in “their shoes” was just that, an exercise. I am a recenty “unenrolled” voter who will be sitting out the presential election unless the democratic nominee is Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton. If there are some downticket elections, I’ll participate and if Senator Kerry is up for reelection I will vote for his competitor. I can’t do much about Senator Kennedy unless he relinquishes his seat due to medical needs.

  146. Mawm, I have reached a point where I can never like Obama. I can’t even stand to look at his pictures or hear his voice. I don’t read any articles that has his face on it. It doesn’t matter because all they do is praise him

  147. I emailed this Andrews guy and told him to give a NAME or be quiet.

  148. Hi Heather, Welcome. It feels like FL today here in the Finger Lakes region…

    I guess you could go to NoQuarter (see blog roll) to follow the “tape” updates. However, we at the Confluence do not give too much credibility to rumours

  149. Hi from the ninth ward of new orleans … i’m in exhile here too!!!!

    looking to help down ticket progressives

    our best bet now is to make sure there will be good representation in congress and the senate

    i’m feeling the same way about Obama that I felt about George Bush … selected NOT elected

  150. Far too many reasons to establish Senator Obama as unfit –both as nominee and, certainly, president–to preoccupy time with an alleged video of MO and remarks she may have made. If it exists, fine. But no one need look that far to prove just how unqualified and WRONG her husband is for the job of POTUS.

  151. @DCDemocrat: “cute” “snit”? Is “sweetie” far behind?

    It appears you have found your rightful home.

  152. edwardian,

    you’re right at 11:42 am. I’ve thought all along he is not qualified period.

  153. “In many ways, it is no different than the Republican party of gilded capitalists, religious crazies and neocons.”

    My father has always been a republican. As a man who struggled to start and own his own business for over 40 years, his issues were: the economy, taxes, business incentives, and less regulations for struggling small business.

    When George W. came onstage, my father accepted him at his word: he would ‘reach across the aisle’, he would be a ‘unifier’. My father tried to ignore the swirl of very far right conseratives behind him. Seemingly, suddenly, those far right conservatives were front and center spewing forth edicts on how the republican party should be and what the agenda would be. Those who didn’t agree, were invited to leave the party.

    My dedicated republican father left when realized it was not the party he loved anymore- “the nuts were running the show.”

    Now it’s happening with the Dem party. It’s at a different end of the ‘nut spectrum’ but it’s a similar inside takeover of fundamental ideals and principles.

    We’ve been shown the door by a party that claims they don’t need us, but we’ve found eachother.

    We’re standing together, talking principles, and fighting back against injustice and corruption of basic voter rights. It gives me hope. Just like they did with HRC, many have misjudged our strength and determination.

  154. Greetings!
    to all refugees from all sites (like me) who have found a shelter here at RD.

    I have noticed the media and some people constantly mention Hillary’s campaign debt. I wonder if you, RiverDaughter, could contact her and ask if she could set up an account for PRE-ORDERS FOR HER NEXT BOOK. We can all pre-order and that way let her earn money that will not be considered campaign contributions that she has to report. She will of course keep a good record of all those who have ordered the book she will be writing. Then the publisher can match the pre-sales with the advance on the book. Then she does not have to get repaid for the money she loaned her campaign because she would have earned even more. She can write it after Obama loses in the November and it will be her own take about what happened and how the party can be reconstituted.

  155. UpstateNY – thanks for the welcome! unbelievable heat wave up there? Yes, we are always hot except for a few weeks in January. We hit 90 by 10:00 am yesterday. This is such an incredible gift that we have – the web – to stick together after being so disrespected by our party. Pastor Manning’s urgent message to HRC on youtube is good, by the way, have y’all heard about it?

  156. Okay now I’m really angry. I went to clean the house and the whole article about the Rep. from New Jersey , Andrews, making that quote in the paper pissed me off.

    I e-mailed him to name NAMES!!

    I think we should all call him out. If it’s true, then we can use that information however we see fit in the coming months to make our decision. But if it is false, all it does is perpetuate the race baiting. Someone needs to say enough is enough. Otherwise, what penalty does Rep. Andrews pay for making such a claim?

    Please join me in emailing him to demand that he give a NAME or offer an apology.

  157. Mawm, on June 6th, 2008 at 11:15 am Said:
    riding the white horse is an expression that means doing heroine. I think you would need to be on that drug to go along with the Unity BS.

    They are – it’s called Hopium.

  158. DCDemocrat — I know your concerns are sincere, but please note that outsiders took over the party in 2008, and the insiders caved to them.

    Party insiders have been stampeded by people who just showed up. People who showed up at rallies and caucuses and some polling stations, mostly in red states, who never showed up before and (in the main) will never show up again.

    Traditional Democratic base voters are now pariahs in their own party — publicly disparaged on account of their ages, or incomes, or education levels — disparaged by the people who just showed up, who are now calling the shots.

    Likewise, outsiders took over the party in 2004. They jsut showed up, in numbers, and shook things up. They couldn’t nominate Howard Dean, who was big at the box office but death at the ballot box … but they just showed up at the lowest-attendance events — club and district meetings — and attained the power of extortion over the insiders. Dean did not have enough supporters to make him DNC Chair, but he had enough people who threatened chaos if the insiders didn’t make him Chair, and the sniveling insiders caved.

    History may take a different turn … but for now, we are outsiders to an institution that turns its back on its natural mission of standing up for the little guy and promoting progressive social change.

    For now, we are PUMAs in the wild. Some day, we may just show up and eat insiders for lunch.

  159. Hopium…LOL

  160. Good morning everyone! (I’m on the West Coast so it really
    is morning here, and good to see how many people have
    written comments). I LOVE this site! Love the photo. Love
    the whole idea of fighting back. I’ve written some scathing
    e-mails in the past few days to so-called progressives asking
    for money (ActBlue, Howard Dean). But my harshest remarks
    went to NPR for their Obama-talking-points coverage of the
    primary. A news organization that I used to respect, and which
    should know better, NPR from the national right down to the
    local affiliate (KQED) could hardly contain their drooling
    admiration for Senator Wonderful and their disdain for two
    people who’ve done more for the Democratic party and for
    race relations than any probably any other two white people
    you can name. Oh don’t get me started. 🙂

  161. Anyone thinking that Cynthia McKinney would be a good alternative, don’t she is supported by Farrakhan too! Joseph at cannonfire was thinking of voting for her and found out some interesting things about her.


  162. Bonita — It’s possible Rep. Andrews is telling the truth. Desperate people do desperate things in campaigns. I have followed the “race baiting” charges closely, and haven’t yet seen one that sticks (give or take Bob Johnson’s allusions to BO’s drug use).

    There’s always a first time.

    But you’re right. If you’re going to level charges of this gravity, you’ve got to be ready to name names.

  163. Good Morning Heather! I let the DNC have a piece of my mind too!

  164. felizarte – regarding Hillary’s huge debt, frankly I think that’s
    another Obama talking point intended to make Hillary look
    bad. My understanding is that she has been setting aside
    money for the General Election all along. Where that
    money goes now is unclear. It had better go to paying
    off any primary debts she has … NOT to Obama’s GE fund.
    BTW any rumors on what “the big meeting” was about?

  165. ronkseattle: I agree that it could be true. Thus, my comment that if it is we all can make decisions based on that information.

    Yet, we need to start demanding statements like these have real evidence to back it up. I am so tired of faming the racial flames without consequence.

  166. I sent HRC a donation tuesday night. If it goes to Obama I will be pissed!

  167. If you gave Hillary money for the GE, and she is not the nominee, she will have to return it to you. No way does it go to a candidate you do not want it to go to.

  168. Anyone thinking that Cynthia McKinney would be a good alternative, don’t she is supported by Farrakhan too! Joseph at cannonfire was thinking of voting for her and found out some interesting things about her.

  169. ParkSlopeVoter reminded me not to forget the menfolk in my rants. I didn’t mean to dismiss the millions of men that have voted for and supported Senator Clinton. I just “see” things from my own perspective.
    One of the things that drives me batshit crazy, now that I am an old bat, is when some young person comments on something I said or did as “cute”. Little old ladies like me that cuss like Drill Sergeants are “cute”. I’m not being cute, I was an army brat and could outswear most men by the time I was 5. (My mother washed my mouth out with soap so many times I thought a bar of Ivory belonged in one of the food groups.)
    I can’t always “hear” racism because I am not a minority and something a minority person might find offensive doesn’t resonate with me. Other times the racism is so blatent it can’t be missed. Racism is always evil. Sexism is always evil. Acceptance of either is not to be tolerated.
    Being a woman has taught me that sexism is alive and well and lives quite comfortably in the United States and in BOTH political parties. Being an old woman has taught me that ageism is also acceptable in this country.
    One thing I have seen and learned to appreciate in this corrupt primary is the number of fine men who are as disgusted by the sexism as women. The man I have lived with for the last 15 years always says that he’d be bored to tears with a Stepford Wife. In which case he hasn’t been bored much in all these years.

  170. I wrote both of my senators today — Patty Murray, Maria Cantwell — both the last holdouts in my state for Hillary.

    I told them that my vote is contingent on Hillary support. I told them I’m not voting for Gov Gregoire (I’m actually happy to have an excuse to not vote for her). Gregoire was a serious hard-core koolaid drinker, posted a ridiculous unity schtick post on DailyKOS way back in Jan/Feb.

    Anyway, I want folks to know that I’m SERIOUS about this. This isn’t about one 4-year election. This is about the direction the Democratic Party is going. Do we want it to move into being a Chicago-style corruption party, backed by elitists? Or do we want it to move back to the FDR times? I choose the latter.

  171. Mawm, I agree with you. Obama will use the time-tested strategy of all dictators, “blame it on the jews”.

    If he is elected his strategy will be validated and we can ALL forget about having any representation in the Democratic Party.

  172. just got an e-mail this morning from our local Dem. party saying ‘they’re here!!”

    The Obama campaign is sending their people here and want local Dems to house them. They are going to be doing voter reg. and knocking on doors and training ‘us’.

    I live in Jacksonville, Fl. (the belt buckle of the bible belt) and there is no way this city will go for Obama. In the primary, it did–big AA pop. here.

    The email was disconcerting though, because it’s like they are now spreading tentacles across the country. This will definitely piss local Hillary supporters off more. They are moving fast–way too fast. It doesn’t matter for me as I cannot vote for him, but it will upset others here.

    This really does feel like a Borg assimilation.

  173. kc,
    Borgs are creepy!

  174. When I was around the age of 12, my father took me to the union hall with him on a regular basis. I rapidly learned that a Democrat was someone who worked hard, who believed in helping “the other guy” when he was down, who believed that being old didn’t mean an automatic loss of dignity, and who would take his last dollar and give it to the Democratic party because it was the right thing to do. The Democratic party in the late 50’s and 60’s was supported by those same hard-working and caring people. But if those people were alive to see what this year’s version of the “new and improved” Democratic party is like, I believe they would be sorely hurt and angered. I am not disappointed in the way the party has gone this year … I am sick, I am furious and I find myself left out of the party I have believed in for years. Will I vote this year? Of course. Will I vote for O just to unify the party? Nope, that ain’t gonna happen. Who will I vote for? Damned if I know, but it won’t be The Big O. I may be mad, but I’m not crazy. There is a part of me that says look, Bush got us into this mess, so let another Repub get us out of it. Unfortunately, the Repub candidate sounds like it would be “business as usual” if he is elected. Write-in vote for HRC? That’s a possibility (if allowed), or maybe just not voting for President. But whatever I decide to do, it will be a long, long time before I ever trust the DNC/Democratic party again.

  175. Yolanda,
    I feel the same way. I’m glad we have this site and each other to find solace in.

  176. I read @hireheels they plan a million woman march on the convention. I would like to go but short on funds.

  177. from hireheels website:

    Contact: Robin Carlson Hillary Grassroots Campaign Phone: 206-XXX-XXXX E-mail: HillaryXXXXX@gmail.com

    Group Vows Half-Million Supporters Will Back Hillary in General Election

    Organization cites surging membership and closeness of previous elections in their promise to impact ’08 elections

    June 4, 2008 — HillaryGrassrootsCampaign.com, an organization with upwards of half-a-million supporters, announced today it is committed to breaking ranks with the Democratic Party and supporting Senator Hillary Clinton in the general election – regardless of her status as the party’s nominee.

    HillaryGrassrootsCampaign.com is not associated with the official Hillary Clinton campaign. However, the organization says it is filled with disaffected supporters who are ready to be “former” Democrats because of the contempt and disregard that has been shown to the many party faithful who support Sen. Clinton’s presidential candidacy.

    “We’ve already registered more than half-a-million supporters and our numbers are growing daily,” said Robin Carlson, HillaryGrassrootsCampaign.com’s campaign representative. “The treatment from the Democratic Party and the media of this historic candidate has energized voters across our nation,” Carlson added. “To throw that support away with such contempt and disregard would be a huge mistake.”

  178. Seems to me that the DNC said to themselves after the Republicans stole the WH, “Hey, they did it, we can too.” …and there you have it.

    I’ve been an indie from long before being an indie was cool and once again, I’m having to choose between the least of two evils. If HRC does not kick this guy to porch in August, then it’s gonna have to be McCain.

  179. Love the PUMA picture! Beautiful, and abolutely my idea of PUMA Power.

    Thanks for the site, thanks for your efforts, your principles, and your refusal to compromise them.

    I’m so grateful for Confluence and the community here.

  180. I’m staying a registered Dem because I vote in primaries in a Dem area. If I lived in a Republican area, I would register as a Republican. I want some say in local elections. But that doesn’t mean I have to vote for anybody I don’t want to.

  181. Has anybody noticed how the Stock Market hates Barack Obama. Everytime he wins (steals) a primary or gets some kind of bump, it plummets.

    “HRC is ending her campaign and doing the walk of shame” and it’s dropped 282 pts so far today.

  182. Heather:

    I read in yahoo news that the meeting between Hillary and Obama was one-on-one without any aides present. I suspect that Hillary must have given him a talking to and laid down “her conditions” . I suspect that Hillary doesn’t want to be VP and they might decide on a prearranged scenario where Obama offers it publicly and she declines. It’s just my own speculation. That would satisfy many people on both sides. But it does nothing, for people like me who won’t vote for Obama ever. Hillary is under pressure from party leaders right now.

    P.U.M.A. POWER!

  183. LaurelnCali—–it seems that groups for Hillary are sprouting everywhere. This one holds promise, but I wish that they could merge to increase numbers. I feel sure that we would be several million if merged and contacted those who don’t do the net.

  184. Also—-wanted to say that this site is great. Thanks

  185. Here’s an interesting article from Joan Vennochi, someone who thinks she’s acting like a neutral party


    Some of her more ridiculous lines:

    If Clinton isn’t on the ticket, Obama must consider the possibility that a chunk of Clinton’s supporters will stay home, write in Clinton — or even vote for McCain.

    That’s probably a smaller risk than Clinton loyalists wish to believe.


    Clinton has leverage, and so do the women who back her. They should use it, not to spite, but to fight for what they say they believe in.

    I think Joan Vennochi needs to understand Pumaism and why we fight a little better, don’t you? Her email is at the end of the article.

  186. AN IMPORTANT POINT TO REMEMBER: I keep hearing B.O. defenders in the face of Wright-Farrakhan criticisms that, “well we know B.O. doesn’t believe that radical stuff”. Let’s spoze that’s true…they are COMPLETELY missing the greatest harm that is happening as we speak: The willingness to downplay their dangers is leading to a new, enormous allure of being a member of the Wright-Farrakhan and related radical groups. It is akin to the days when being antisemitic was actually chic and certainly accepted (e.g., before WWII). So the proper response to these people who say, oh we know B.O. doesn’t really believe that stuff (and of course he wasn’t in church when those remarks were made*) is to ask them whether they think a Trinity-type church on every corner would be a good thing? would the huge growth of black liberation theologians (in the Pfleger mold) be harmless? Well that’s what we’re getting—it is only natural for people to sign on to the institutions to which the vaunted leader committed 20 years.
    *I have repeatedly urged people to examine the written tenets of the black liberation theological church in general, and, more specifically, just LOOK at the materials everyone was and is privy to at B.O. church. Send someone in and read the stuff yourself. We ignore this at our great peril!

  187. I just want to chime in my support. I’ve been reading for a few weeks now (ever since my parents directed me here!) and I cannot express my gratitude for what you guys are doing here – and for what you’ve already accomplished.

    I was ready to give up. But now I know that there are others out there, fighting the good fight. Your eloquence and rationality and passion are truly inspiring. Thank you so, so much.

  188. Thank you for seizing the moment to build a monument to feminism and economic justice with the bodies of all the brothers and sisters who will die in John McCain’s wars.

  189. If you are trying to convince anyone to see things your way, Michael, dropping in with insults is a poor start. (What is your way, besides making up lies about what we believe?)

  190. Michael: I suggest you write to Mr. Obama and ask him why he’s voted FOR every measure to fund this war.

    That might be a good start, since he is apparently your candidate.

    And BTW, if you think he’s going to get us out of this war, come back and see us after he’s elected and you’re bitching about HIM instead of John McCain.

  191. I had a call from the DNC this morning…I stopped the girl mid-sentenced to tell her “I am NO longer a Democrat”. She said she was sorry to hear that, in which I answered “I’m not, I feel pretty damn good about it…bye bye.” I hope those fools keep on calling, I get the greatest satisfaction telling them to piss off.

  192. Micheal,
    You think Obamas gonna stop the war if he’s prez?
    As soon as he gets in office he’s gonna realize that he’s in way over his empty suit head! Your living in a “FairyTaleLand” !

  193. PUMA Power all the way, baby! There are bigger things we need to stand up for than deciding once again to vote for the lesser of two evils. Our decision not to vote for Obama is about standing up for DEMOCRACY and THE RIGHT TO VOTE. My vote for Hillary in Michigan meant nothing to the DNC and Obama. I was disenfranchised and my vote was stolen and given to Obama. What the Democratic Party did to Hillary was even worse than what the Republicans did to Al Gore in 2000. I won’t stand for it.

  194. There are lots of reasons to think that the (D) party has made a mistake with Obama, but I see people talking up resentment for black movements here, and I find that rather disturbing. Wright, Farrakhan, and so on have a context, and it’s the context of politically active minorities, and they’re a part of that ecology.

    It is unwise to make use of that the way some people are doing.

  195. I am 100% on board w/ you River Daughter. So that we can all make our voices heard in unison, what do you suggest? Write-in Hillary in the Fall, or vote McCain? If we all agree on a common plan, we are more powerful. I’m game for either option.

  196. DisenfranchisedVoter: I’m really sorry that your vote was not counted fairly. I’m glad you’re, here we must stick together. I’m still pissed off about Bush vs. Gore too! And now the Dems pull this horseshit and we are supposed to ignore it!

  197. I just love PUMA!!!!!!!

    That was a stroke of genius!

  198. BTW,

    Has anyone sent Hillary a few links on PUMA?? I am sure it will cheer her up! She’ll love it!

  199. Count me in also.

    Anyone who thinks Obama is going to get us out of Iraq any sooner than anyone else needs to pay attention. Recently in Congress a vote on a bill to begin withdrawing troops was held, Obama voted no.

    Obama tells you what you want to hear. Not what you need to know.

  200. Mandos: I don’t agree with you. Farrakhan/Wright are extremists who are very anti american. Yes, people have the right to free speech, but I’m not imagining what comes out of their mouths. They are full of hate speech and it’s because their power hungry and corrupt. I will not give them a pass, because in my opinion they do not have our country’s best interests at heart. You Obama supporters just don’t get it!

  201. THANK YOU PUMA!!!!!!!!!!

  202. the problem with wright in friends primarily is whatever the Repugs make it and they will make their words a problem. See what they did to John Kerry. Imagine what they’ll do to Obama.

    ‘Nough said.

  203. Joel, on June 6th, 2008 at 3:01 pm Said:

    Count me in also.

    Anyone who thinks Obama is going to get us out of Iraq any sooner than anyone else needs to pay attention. Recently in Congress a vote on a bill to begin withdrawing troops was held, Obama voted no.

    Obama tells you what you want to hear. Not what you need to know.

    When was this? Have a link to any article

  204. Good riddance, poor working people! You’re on your own now.

    RiverDaughter: 1st timer here
    poor working people is one segment of the party i’d like to see decline rapidly and permanently.
    There needs to be better education and higher paying jobs.
    I wonder how much community organizer pays?

  205. DCDemocrat –

    Thousands and thousands of democrats clogged the email box and telephone lines of the DNC encouraging them to do what was right for the party and the people.

    They are the ones who locked us out, they don’t care what we want them to do.

    I got an email from them yesterday explaining they were adopting the Obama methodology of collecting big bucks. No More PAC contributions. Instead, they will try to trick the corporate executive big donors and their spouses into contributing the maximum allowed per individual, which is a huge increase over what they could get from a single $ limit from the PAC.

    Hillary’s acceptance of PAC money was actually honorable by comparison to the lying, cheating method Obama, and now the DNC are using.

    This DNC can crumble. PUMA lives, Hillary rises and we have a solid avenue toward making our voices heard and our numbers being more accuracy counted.

    Obama NEVER.

  206. tb– During your call from the DNC, were you able to call her ‘sweetie’?

  207. rojo7449: I got the same email. What a joke! They act like their so superior, but what they are really doing is adopting Obama’s Chicago ways.

  208. Does anyone know if there is any sort of organized presence for HRC (thank you Madame President, NO VP, Denver, etc ) tomorrow in DC? Haven’t read anything on this so far…


  209. a PUMA 527 would be able to do some national ads to really get our message out.

  210. I am with you all the way. Thanks for being here and giving me a palce to go to. I love your site and I love to scroll through the comments. It is good to know I am not alone in my beliefs.

  211. Honora, LOL! I shoulda.

  212. #
    Kim, on June 6th, 2008 at 9:30 am Said:

    Gloria Steinham is supporting Obama.

    Yes it’s true. See:


    I shouldn’t be surprised. Ms Steinem has always been a ‘polite lady’ and what I think of as a ‘man’s woman’. She was appointed leader of the Women’s Liberation Movement in the early ’70s by the corporate establishment because they knew she would never do anything to upset the (male, corporate) power structure.

  213. Riverdaughter:

    Peggy Noonan of the WSJ put out a disgusting piece about Hillary yet again, saying that no one likes her, they are happy to be rid of her, and she will never be VP as he doesn’t want her. To quote directly “She’ll put poison in his tea”. Why does this woman vilify Hillary to such an extent?

    Do we have any idea what went on behind closed doors last night? What are the real chances that he will offer her the VP spot? I know many of us don’t want that, but what are the real chances?

  214. Those rabid Hilary haters like Peggy Noonan and Dick Morris never give any rational reasons for their unhinged hatred. It says a lot more about them than it does about Hillary.

  215. Peggy Noonan is a total enabler…she enables males to keep on beating up on women. I wrote her a letter after she published that garbage piece about how hillary shouldn’t play the victim card of sexism because other women in history didn’t. She got all these men commenting on her article saying how spot on she was. She plays the angle of “I can say these things because I’m female” bit quite a lot. She wants other to recognize that she’s a self proclaimed strong woman and Hillary isn’t. I sent her clips after clips of sexism in this primary because obviously, she’s deaf dumb and blind for the last 16 months. What a hack.

  216. Amen, tb

  217. Everyone here please send Hillary a thank you card. See Taylor Marsh’s site!
    We are trying to get a “Thank you card campaign” started. We want to flood Senator Clinton’s DC office with thank you cards. On the front of the envelope we are writing “WE ARE ONE OF 18 MILLION” and we are asking her to take it to Denver. We want to reach as many supporters as possible so it can be effective. THE ADDRESS:




    DC 20510-3202

  218. Thank you for articulating so clearly what many of us feel. The party left me, I didn’t have to leave the party.
    I’ve been an active Dem for almost 40 years. It breaks my heart to see what’s happening.

    I will not reward BO with a vote, no matter who runs against him. He’s inexperienced, divisive and has forced out the best candidate for president that we’ve had in many years.

    I’m glad to have another sane place to go.

  219. Thank you riverdaughter, and the millions of people who aren’t backing down.

    Teresa, I posted a comment about Joan Vennochi’s stupid post. The other comments were all supportive–we have a lot of Obama supporters here.

    AM–Please don’t criticize Gloria. She is doing as Clinton is doing– going with the party. It’s not my way but I certainly support it. It’s what I preached when the Nader voters screwed up Gore’s chances before Bush had a chance to do it. Gloria has done a lot for us and deserves the benefit of the doubt.

    Mandos– the puma idea isn’t causing resentment of Farrakhan. I protested Farrakhan twenty-five years ago. The context of his movement doesn’t excuse his methods–in fact, I consider him even less admirable because he is preying on people’s dreams of equality.

  220. Hi, y’all! I just wanted to share something with you good people that I wrote a week ago. It’s a blog posting of the email that I sent to all the uncommitted supers I could find. I got a few polite responses and some flat out hateful ones. I just thought that the kindred souls I’ve found here could appreciate the sentiments more than the super d’s apparently did:


  221. Mandos, on June 6th, 2008 at 2:44 pm Said:

    There are lots of reasons to think that the (D) party has made a mistake with Obama, but I see people talking up resentment for black movements here, and I find that rather disturbing. Wright, Farrakhan, and so on have a context, and it’s the context of politically active minorities, and they’re a part of that ecology.

    It is unwise to make use of that the way some people are doing.



    I agree on some points. Some of the scolding about the MO tape is a bit sanctimonious, but I think some of it is on the mark — it can boil down to the same thing as calling Pelosi or Brazile “bitch,” which I don’t support either. If I was sensitized to misogyny during this primary, I’ve got to stick with that. Also, I personally have no problem with liberation theology or radical movements.

    OTOH, I don’t believe that anything anyone says or does in the name of a worthy goal (opposing racism, in this case) is okay. I also don’t accept some of Rev. Wright’s statements as part of the ecology of black liberation theology — I gave the Natalee Holloway example earlier. I don’t think there’s a context that excuses some of Farrakhan’s remarks about Jews. Moreover, I’m not hip enough to say that such statements don’t bother me, because they do.

    So, YMMV. Just because I don’t accept smears against Obama based on his “radical church,” it doesn’t mean I think everything his associates and advisors have said is okay. I’m on the nuance train with this one. Especially online, where there’s little accountability, people use all sorts of things to their advantage. Bottom line: I take away that Obama shifts with whatever wind blows — he’s radical, he’s a libertarian, he’s pro-Israel, he’s a Reagan-admirer, he’s part of the special ecology of an African America church, he’s post-racial, he’s change incarnate, he’s part of the Dem party elite, he’s everything and nothing. He’s a cipher, and I’ve reached the point where I don’t believe he has any actual values or beliefs beyond his own ego. So, yeah, he’s not getting my vote, period, and it’s not because of his church.

  222. Can someone answer a question for me? I keep reading about the nasty, divisive campaign that Hillary ran, but for the life of me, I can’t remember a single nasty, divisive thing she did.

  223. Make sure, Puma and DiEs, when you write your thank you cards to put “We are one of the 18 Million” on the envelope so that they are readily identifiable.

  224. Julies9164, because it was a lie. It was a tactic and a talking point. They made it up and the rest of us have to live with it–or not.

    I’m choosing not.

  225. To quote directly “She’ll put poison in his tea”. Why does this woman vilify Hillary to such an extent?

    Based on that line, I think it’s a two-fer – bash the hell out of Hillary for being responsible for all that is wrong in the world, and swipe Obama for being precious and weak while she’s at it. I’m not going to go read the rest of the piece because it’d only make me angry, but.. he drinks tea, now? That’s Peggy Noonan for you.

  226. Mandos: I don’t think there’s any excusing Farrakhan or Wright. Racists are racists no matter what their skin color.

  227. lillianjane: Gloria S doesn’t need to and could have refused to endorse. She’d have plenty of reason for abstaining, given the sexism in the campaign.

    She had her own agenda — maybe money?

  228. Amen!

  229. Teresa,
    I know, I know–I am disappointed too–I’d like her to be fiery about this, but let’s give her credit for her past work. I was reading Ms. when I was seven, and it certainly contributed to my ideology, which has turned to puma-ism these days.

  230. Gloria Steinem is a goddess and those who would trash talk her, don’t know what sexism is.

  231. julies9164

    You aren’t alone. Hillary never said anything negative about Obama but because Obama is so special, Hillary saying the only experience he has is a speech he gave in 2002, if you can’t handle the heat get out of the kitchen and ask Americans whom they would trust with their lives was considered negative by Obama, his MSM friends and Dean and company.

    Don’t you remember how they accused Hillary of darkening Obama’s face in the 3 am AD?

    PS. Is there a way we would sign in instead of writing our names and emails everytime we post?

  232. I won’t be able to vote for BO – just can’t do it. Not after I saw the way Hillary was vilified, called a liar, and both she and Bill were labeled “racists.” All of these things and more emanated from the BO campaign. What a shame – tragic what they’ve done, and what they’ve taken from us.

  233. I had joined the Democratic party in December 2000 – when the GOP stole Florida. I left it on May 31 when the Democrats did it.
    In 2000 I got depressed (Gore rolled over), this time I am angry – but empowered – as Hillary demanded respect for us.
    It’s an energy I shall use for good.
    Thank you so much for articulating so well what I feel.
    I have been wondering about the new libertarians taking control
    of this party.
    I also loved your previous post saying that Hillary can’t fix the mess they created – I include it in all my correspondence with the DNC

  234. I am so glad that I found this site — and I am on board. I hope you will take this in the spirit it is offered, but yesterday and today is the anniversary of Bobby Kennedy’ death. He was the last candidate who really cared about the poor of this country. How appropriate that the PUMA movement is being founded when, more than every, his legacy is being remembered.

  235. Gloria Steinam. Still a godess.

  236. Oddly enough, there is a PUMA soda you can get:

    “All Natural Puma Kola, is fire-brewed in our unique gas-fired kettle for distinctive flavor and character. Each batch is made from scratch using the finest ingredients; kola extract, real vanilla, a pinch of cinnamon and pure honey. You will roar with delight at this wonderfully rich and flavorful soft drink.”

    I have no connection to the company: just thought it was funny.

  237. Teresa, I totally agree with you. The thing with the three stooges: Farrakhan, Wright and Pfleger, is that they talk up a frenzy about the evilness of whiteys or Jews but I’ve yet to see a tape of them talking about how the AA community can extend their arms and try and understand the “evil” whiteys and Jews. To me, hate is hate and coming from a place of God? Even more shameful.

  238. I have sent the DNC a message. I have unsubscripted. When you unsubscribe, they ask you why. I said. “OBAMA. I will vote for McCain”.

  239. BTW : DC Democrat is cutting and pasting the ‘leave the party in a snit’ comment all around the net.

    We’re seeing the full color spectrum of the Pocket Guide.

    For people who think they have ‘won’ they aren’t very happy. I wish I felt bad for them, but eh…..

  240. Re: Criticism of Gloria Steinem. I started to research this because I couldn’t say I know for sure it isn’t true, but most of the links I saw were to sites discussing “feminazis” and such. I don’t consider these reliable.
    Not an exhaustive study, but I read that Steinem worked on a project that was funded by the US government, via the CIA, but there was nothing nefarious about it. If people post very controversial, apocryphal comments about a revered figure, I wish they would also cite sources.

  241. RD—- just want to report some numbers re Pumas — hundreds, behind the scenes—– figures doubling and doubling it’s the magic of Pumanation — a tidy lil demographic we be….and ummm you are soooooooooooooooooooooo right in this post, o’ yours, I’m going to shamelessly cross post it. You see, I have a new idea. The Rogue Party/Puma Party. You wrote this fantastically!

  242. This message is going around the blogs —

    We are trying to get a “Thank you card campaign” started. We want to flood Senator Clinton’s DC office with thank you cards. On the front of the envelope we are writing “WE ARE ONE OF 18 MILLION” and we are asking her to take it to Denver. We want to reach as many supporters as possible so it can be effective.


    WASHINGTON DC 20510-3202

  243. “I keep reading about the nasty, divisive campaign that Hillary ran, but for the life of me, I can’t remember a single nasty, divisive thing she did.”

    She stood there with her experience, her policy expertise, he lack of penis, and had the nerve to not only challenge The Annointed, but make him look like the unqualified stooge he is. Then she even had the gall to beat him. She made the Democrats disenfranchise two states, she made them vent their hatred of women, she made them patronize, alinetae, and scorn working class people. In short, she existed. The nerve!

  244. A “Thank you card” to Sen. Clinton? I don’t know about that. Wasn’t she just saying a couple weeks ago “I won’t quit on you if don’t quit on me?” And then generated about a million dollars at that women’s event in D.C.?

    Advocate, donor and volunteer that I have been, I would like to see those people who attend tomorrow’s event show some grit and boo the senator when she says she’s supporting Obama.

    It is just wrong, what she’s doing, and the best thing that can happen is for her to go take a long summer vacation to recover from the campaign while we 18 million voters take over from here on out. She’s already got the 270 electoral votes in the sack, for god’s sake. All she has to do is sign up to run as an independent. How hard can that be?

    If she really means what she says about the most important thing being to get a Democrat in the White House, than this is the only way that will happen.

    (P.S. For all those discussing who Obama is, please check out the article I’ve posted – click on my screen name.)

  245. > Let us be clear what this is all about for those of
    > you who wander in here looking for an argument.


    Wow! This is really taking off!

  246. Hi all

    Hillary must not be airheads VIP.she needs to fight on the convention Flor.or just back of and let the AH. fall on his face. and he will fall on his face because JM is going to beat the crap out of him in the GE.. Hillary must rest and regroup.then come back i 2012 and beat JM for the Wight House.if she stays and helps this nut job now and he looses they will blame her.she must stay clean and run in 2012.

  247. Hillary Clinton is not going to run as an independent. She has been a democrat too long. Uniting the party is part of being a professional politician. Let her do her job. However, her “uniting” will come for a price. So let’s see what the bargaining is going to be. Sen John Kerry was willing to throw out universal health care. Let’s see what Senator Clinton does with that one. Changing the democratic party rules and delegate process would be another one. Having her be majority leader would be the third one. There are many bills that Senator Clinton has written that just sit there because Reid and Co won’t push them…the biggie is the equity pay act.

    In order for her to secure a floor fight at the convention the SD’s would have to be in support. There aren’t enough SD’s with the guts to do it. Thus Hillary can’t take her nomination to a floor fight unless something changes between now and then. and the SD’s get on board or Obama withdraws.. I think she should hold her delegates because I have no clue who is the next clown that will roll out of Obama’s circus car. This will be the first time in my memory that the Republicans will not have to conduct a smear campaign. They can simply win by telling the truth about Obama.

    Senator Clinton has always managed to find a way. Let her find the way.

  248. Alice: Thank you for your response. I agree that there are things that both Wright and Farrakhan (who are, again, not the same at all) have said that are unhelpful at best and terrible at worst.

    But the rest who believe that white people have the right to resent black people’s resentment of white people, and to believe that “racism” charges can be applied equally to minorities as majorities, and further more hold minorities to equal standards as majorities—are caricatures who validate a lot of Obamaphile criticisms.

    By the way, because I happen to accept an anti-racist analysis that *doesn’t* hold blacks and whites to the same standards, does NOT mean that I think that Obama was a great idea or that he won in a fair way either.

  249. I’m just glad to be here, and to read what every one thinks, and how we all feel.
    I don’t know the answers, but I’ve been a Democrat my whole life and this time…I’m so fed up with how this whole primary fiasco has gone , and how the Democratic Party has treated one of it’s most intellegent, knowledgable, loyal, servants, this Party has..and to be treated like an adopted child to do the grunt work for the family, has made me want to leave this Party and become an Independant!!
    I’m here …thank God, I found you, because I want to listen, wait, and vent, before I do anything. So thanks for listening and let’s just stick together, before we make a monumental decision.
    Also, I don’t think Clinton should be VP, unless she’s given more (much more) influence and decision making abilities.
    What do the rest of you think?

  250. Linda,
    I just read your thoughts…I agree!! Anything can happen between now abd then..thanks

  251. […] I don’t understand this: Let us be clear what this is all about for those of you who wander in here looking for an […]

  252. Like the defintion(s) you provided regarding the stance of disaffected Dems, since I feel more apathy toward the current Democratic party than I do anger.

  253. Hi everyone. I to am hurt by the Democratic Party.I would never vote for Obama even if Hillary was on the ticket. I love Hillary but no matter what she tells us to do we must not do it. Obama would be the end of America believe me. Between Obama and Mccain i believe Mccain the lessor of two evils. Of course we could have had a better country if the DNC didn’t steal it away from Hillary and the crooked news media. By the way for any one who wants to tell off Howard Dean his office number is 202-863-8000. he has had thousands of calls and now they have a large staff answering the calls. I heard Dean is getting scared,as he should be.

  254. There is an article on MSN today saying that one of the reasons Clinton lost was that Nancy Pelosi worked behind the scenes lobbying Superdelegates not to support Clinton. Given that Congress’s approval rating is lower than that of the Commander-in-Chief, why did anyone even listen to her. With more and more information coming out each day, it is becoming apparent that a sizeable number of superdelegates did not vote their conscience or for the good of the party, but rather for their own good. Couple that development with the fact that Obama raked up most of his early wins through caucus “victories” in states that the Democrats will never win underscores the fact that the Democratic party has lost its soul. Does anyone really think these people are going to accomplish anything positive for the country? The only change they want is a change that puts them in charge.

  255. I will be back and everyone have a good nights rest. We need our brains working for our Gal. I love this site and God Bless every Puma and your work for our Sister Hillary.

  256. It actually was done by Nancy Pelosi , Dean and Reid. They did it all three of them

  257. I’m shocked and dismayed that folks actually think Obama will have trouble beating McShame in the fall.
    The man can barely tie his shoes much less run this country. I don’t care how much ‘experience’ he has. He’s going senile in front of us on camera. In this You Tube world, he’s got a major problem that will not go away anytime soon and will likely grow (as it has in just the past 2 months).
    Did you see his speech the other night compared to Obamas? It was a no contest. While I understand being upset & hurt about the way the primary has played out. This anger towards Obama and his family is way overboard and IMO misplaced.
    And I don’t believe for a minute that there are really ‘millions’ of democrats out in this country that wants to go through four more years of the McSame.
    I see Taylor Marsh mentioned above, as if she’s now a traitor because she’s posted that she’ll be voting for Obama, the Democratic Nominee in November, now that it looks to her as well as many of us that Hillary will most likely concede tomorrow.
    All this complaining and going on about how the R&B’s committee stole votes ‘right’ on national TV. They did nothing of the sort, they enforced the rules set by the same committee last summer, the same committee that has 13 Clinton campaign workers sitting on it, who also voted and pushed to omit Florida and Michigan, because Harold Ickes thought it would give Hillary and advantage & lead going into Super Tuesday. But whoop’s, it didn’t quite go the way Mark Penn & Howie had it all mapped out (Turns out Penn really had no clue how to map out a Dem Primary strategy, much less run a campaign for the President of the United States of America, a candidate with arguably the highest exposure ever coming into a presidential primary, and she still owes him millions of dollars, for what?).
    And then it turns out that those ‘rules’ they had all agreed to, well they became a little inconvenient, and well now they needed to break them so that the nominee had even the slightest chance of now being the Dem nominee. So then started the “We have to count every vote” chant from Wolfson and Terry “I’ve made a foo’ of myself” McAuliffe and Bill and Hillary, even though they all stated (and there’s video of Hillary saying it numerous times) that they fully expected the primary to be over after Feb. 5th. And now her supporters are complaining about being cheated of votes. She didn’t want to count anything after Feb 5th, gee, how many millions is that?
    Her campaign was unsuccessful for a lot of reasons, most of but not all the campaigns (see Bill) doing, but a lot of bad moves were made by Hillary and the folks running the campaign. Its not Obama’s fault the Clintons and their team couldn’t put together a winning effort.
    The hatred towards Obama and his wife seems SO misplaced to this voter and all of my family. We are not rich, we are not elite, Mom and Dad grew up in humble Midwest families, moved us to Reno Nv when I was 2 and we have lived a nice semi dysfunctional middle of the road life. I still live here with my husband and 3 kids. I’ll proudly vote for Obama in the fall, as will my family, from my Mom and Dad (late 60’s) to my sister’s son who just turned 18 and will vote this fall for the first time in his life, a vote he thinks will be historic and one he’ll remember for the rest of his life.
    So, no PUMA party for me.
    Peace and Light,

  258. Delia–oh HELL no.

    War and Night, IBW

  259. Oh dear Delia Delyon, Obama only won by cheating. If you vote for him, you are voting for corruption. You vote for him, you are saying that senior citizens don’t matter. Your vote for him means you are saying that threatening people and stealing votes is right. Your vote for him means you are saying that destroying the environment is right since he voted for the Bush-Cheney energy bill. Your vote for him, means that you agree children are a punishment. Your vote for him, means that you don’t believe in UHC. your vote for him means that you agree with race baiting. Your vote for Obama is a vote against Democraccy. Congratulations Delia Delyon, you just participated in destroying your country, How does it feel?

  260. Riverdaughter, I agree completely. Can you please put me on your blogroll? I have you on mine


  261. I have been a devoted DNC supporter since the days of JFK.I am ready to quit after seeing the comments of ex-Clinton supporters.If this ragtag amalgamation of KKK rejects and still-in-the closet Republicans have any say on future DNC policies,count me out!

  262. I just watched Hillary’s speech , on endorsing Obama, I live in Pa. there are many, many, many of us who will never vote for Obama, don’t like him, don’t believe him, I hope he loses big time to McCain I will vote for McCain and so will my family , we will never come around to that anti-christ, sitting in that despicable church he is just pure evil, no normal people would bellieve him. Please don’t vote for him.

  263. One reason that a lot of politicians do handshakes with people who are pro-business, pro-development, and pro-action over people who have a great interest in solid positive social programs and systems is because of commenters like Gazzed above.

    Obama wouldn’t be able to drive the votes of the normal working man just because of this guy’s comments above. Not saying that Obama would be stereotyping all normal people as such, but when you see a herd mentality amongst the working classes, and can’t judge from the competent and the stupid, you go after the developers, the pro-business, the Atlas shrugged believers.

    The party is full of them because for a long time, its not that the social programs and liberal systems are doing harm, but it is the balkanized ideologies that people, liberal or conservative, possess and need to be pampered.

    You see how the commenter above, his ideology on never voting for Obama, and his reference to the most non-politcal interplan of Obama’s career ( his interaction with the preacher), was the ultimatum in who he was passing the vote to. he commenter above represents a lot of Americans; the ideology that comforts their lifestlye best is the one they will use to choose the next president.

    Regardless of your stances or your beliefs, America needs to leave the tradition of organized PIRGs and selfish demands for the logic and understanding of the dynamic of what we can ask for our government, and what we can volunteer to our peers.

    At the end of the day, I am not trying to protect the centered-libertarian policies of the democratic party, but to only demonstrate that their aim to get to the white house requires a lot of kiss-assing. With great strong posts like yours, and stupid comments like Gazzed above, they might be too strong to hypocritical for a politicians to stroke both egos at once.

    And so the democrats leave the workers, the normal people, the strugglers, the working class to fend for themselves, And, hopefully, the cream of the crop, the dissenters of the cave, the red-pill swallowers, will hoepfully be able to forge an ideology that will end up helping everyone above and below.

    An elitist remark that I don’t believe in; I am only trying to point out the mindset our current politicians on both sides may have about their constituents, and their ability to move into power and change our country into something better.

  264. […] where I take issue (Source) Let us be clear what this is all about for those of you who wander in here looking for an […]

  265. We will soon be unseating Howard Dean.

  266. I am a new member and so glad to be here. I have so many things collected in my brain that I want to say but have been unable to get a post through on the Hillary site. I look forward to sharing my thoughts on this primary and am so glad that it is recognized how many there are of us out there who don’t feel comfortable supporting the democatic nominee for president after the shameful way the nomination was decided.

  267. […] Yes there is anger: The problem is the party itself. 2008 was the year that the party abandoned its principles. It is […]

  268. I support the cause!


  269. Is it a problem if McCain wins and repeals Roe v Wade?

  270. […] are either latte-drinking, arugula-eating, trail-mix-snacking, Obama-supporting liberal elitists, or uppity negros. Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)I’m lookin’ for a mandateObama’s […]

  271. […] Riverdaughter came up with the concept on June 6 […]

  272. For those who wish to stay together in a long term commitment to the ideals and rinciples that Hillary Clinton has spent a lifetime promoting, http://Together4Us.com offers access for activists, funders, students, policy-makers and ordinary people to come together in support of each other and their goals for America. Please come to our website and join, use the code below to put our linked logo on your website and distribute our message and this code to all your network. Spread the word. We will be happy to put up a reciprocal link, your own co-branded web page on our site, or your own blog.

    Thanks so much,
    Gretchen Glasscock,

  273. […] The PUMA Movement, composed largely of Democrats and recently former Democrats who supported Hillary Clinton in the primaries, i,s and has always been, warily dismissed as a myth or ridiculed by those deliriously supporting Barack Obama.  Because PUMA is a loose-knit coalition of websites dedicated to the proposition that an unfairly selected nominee is unworthy of true Democratic support, pooh-poohing the reality is easy to do.  However, the sentiments driving the movement are not so easily dismissed.  There is no true PUMA Party in the same sense as other organized political parties, in fact, not all PUMAs-at-heart even know that they are, thus the stealthy PUMA is harder to identify.  Yet, to think that a quiet setting denotes safety from prey, is to invite being preyed upon. […]

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