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The State of Play, June 5, 2008

What happened this week? What’s happening? And what’s going to happen? You have questions, we can narrow down the answers and discuss in comments.

What happened? Hillary won the week on the ground, dominating Obama 2-1 in Puerto Rico and finishing ahead in SD and MT on a combined apples-to-apples basis. More evidence surfaced that Obama’s pledged delegate lead (like his debatable parity in the popular vote) came only from the caucuses, and that caucuses are lousy indicators of popular preference even in caucus states.

We got kneecapped by the Rules and Bylaws Committee. FL and MI delegations will be half-seated, but MI won’t be seated as won, and major violence was done to the bedrock of Party rules in the process.

And Obama won the one that counts — the mindshare primary — convincing the preponderance of pundits and pols that the nomination goes to the candidate with the most pledged delegates.

What’s happening now? Many of Hillary’s prominent allies are party animals (as is she), and more than a few are career politicians. The political ecosystem they inhabit has its own laws of nature, and many would face threats to their own viability if she held out too long.

Hillary knows this, and she does not burn allies for no good reason. She’ll put them in position to continue their careers. She’s loyal, even to a fault.

What’s NOT going to happen?

Forget the Sunday pundit pop-psychology. Her next move WON’T be determined by “the grieving process” or “coming to terms” with anything. That’s the way they think, because that’s the way they would act and react … because if they could do it, they would be doing it for reasons of personal ambition, and they would have trouble functioning if their hopes were dashed. That’s who they are, not who Hillary is, and that’s why they can’t understand the action unfolding before their eyes.

Also, Hillary will NOT run as an independent (though someone else might, at this juncture). She will NOT run on a McCain/Clinton ticket. She is a true blue Democrat with a capital ‘D’. Loyal, even to a fault. She has seen her Party stumble again and again, but she has never quit on it, and she’s not going to start.

Her next move will be calculated — calculated to achieve the best results possible for her country first and her party second, given the resources at her disposal and the unfortunate positional disadvantages on the landscape in front of her. That’s what she will do, because that’s who she is.

What is going to happen?

As best she can, Hillary will make an all-out effort to clear ground for Obama the Unready … to protect him from the slings and arrows on the trail ahead of him. This is the high road, and Hillary will take it (confounding her detractors). It won’t be an act. She’ll put her heart and soul into it.

We can’t say exactly how this will play out. We don’t have the information, and none of us are as smart as she is. Whatever course she marks out, it’ll be the best course of action for her allies in the profession of politics.

It’s also her best, most realistic path to nomination this year, should the opportunity develop (which it may). Going to bat for Obama keeps her available and in good standing, just in case Obama implodes any time from now to convention. It’s a long hot summer, the putative nominee is untested and unvetted, and there are tougher predators out there than any he’s encountered in his charmed stroll in the zoo to date. He just thinks she played hardball in the primaries. She’s been protecting him all along.

What are we going to do?

Hillary will ask us to rejoin the collective, hold our noses and hit the trail for unity and country, and learn to like it again. As the campaign gets moving, McCain will give us abundant reason to do so. Many of us will — as is usual in the aftermath of hard-fought nomination battles.

But many of us won’t. Lines have been crossed that have never been crossed before, and can’t be uncrossed. Much as we love our country, much as we’ve given our hearts to the Party in past stretches of adversity, we know the institution has been taken over at grassroots level by a clique of reflexive fanatic haters, and at higher levels by opportunists who mistakenly think this is to their advantage.

And we know this takeover could not have happened except that millions of regular Democrats went headlong into this historic decision cycle with their bullshit detectors unplugged! We know something is very wrong here. Whatever it is, more shoulders to the wheel will just make it worse.

We will listen respectfully to our candidate … and then, with deep regrets, we will go our own ways.

PUMAs will follow our own high roads, unclaimed and untamed, padding our ways over the high wilderness ridges on our big cats paws, calm but vigilant, reading the wind for signs of danger — and opportunity.

259 Responses

  1. RD – Are there going to be any PUMA bumperstickers? I want to buy some for me and all of my friends.

  2. ronk…..amen.

  3. Well, I’ll donate my T-shirt slogan to PUMA…

    I voted for “that bitch”

  4. Maybe you can write in Tom Bombadil?

  5. Bumper stickers! T-Shirts! Where can/do we donate?

  6. Great post, ronk.

    She won’t forget her 18 million voters, either.

  7. (vigorously nodding)

    RonK — Thank God Hillary’s the smartest person in the room. And the kindest. We sure need her wisdom as we negotiate this bizarre, weird summer.

  8. Thanks Ronk.

    You said all I wanted to say. You paid the best tribute to Hillary. I have said it many times, and each time I say with more conviction than before:

    I am proud to bits of her. She is a tremendous role model. She almost beat the media, the machine, and the party juggernut singlehandedly. Almost.

    No one else could have displayed this toughness. The media was determined to not have a President Hillary Clinton. That trumps everything else for them. Believe me, BO is going to still get soft treatment till August. Because at the back of Tim Russert’s mind and Chris Matthews’ mind is the possibility that Hillary may return.

    Had she won, she would have had enourmous leverage. The Wall Street, and even more so, the pundits and the party insiders didn’t want that. Nancy P. would not have wanted that. Almost surely, Hillary would have brought UHC to America. She would have been a magnificent president, and one worthy of having a historical and transformative presidency. They didn’t want that. They couldn’t have wanted that.

    Jealousy has a lot to do with it. From my POV (long removed from all of them), deep down they know the spirit and intelligence of Bill and Hillary Clinton. They are jealous of it. Hillary at her core is decent. She cares. Moreover, it would have been quite a legacy. Even more so, because of the media storm and party storm against her. Can you imagine the power of that story? The woman who came roaring back? The Clintons, presidents for 4 terms, and very successful at that. Historians will have said, Kennedy? Who were they?

    No, Teddy and Nancy and Kerry, mediocere as they all are, couldn’t have that.

    I am a Canadian, but I am as disgusted with this whole thing that Harriet C. was outside the RBC meeting.

  9. I stole someones idea and made a bumper sticker

    Don’t Blame Me!
    I Voted for Hillary


  10. Well, I’m signed up for the Sat thing, but if the focus is unity, I probably won’t go. I also wonder if BO will show up for his endorsement, w/ the place crawling w/ ‘bots chanting ‘unity.’

  11. C’mom, hlr…what is wrong with some unity chanting?

  12. Ronk, awesome post.
    Ghost2 — I’m not ready to give up the ghost (heh) I believe this is a strategy on the clinton campaign to lay low.

    Shainzona, there will be a place to contribute on the website tonight. We want everything to be secure and on the up and up, so it will take a few hours.

    Hang tight — tshirts and PUMA mugs on the way!

  13. hlr — Some will emerge united … and some will emerge untied.

  14. ronk, you DO have a way with words!

  15. I love Hillary, and I know she is going to do her best to try to get us to hold our noses and vote Obama. I will not, however. Obama would be the worst thing for this country in my opinion, worse than McCain. My vote for McCain is not just a protest vote. I believe Obama will utterly ruin our country.

  16. ronkseattle — I strongly suspect ‘bots will show up as faux Hill supporters ‘ready 2 U Nite!’

    Given their astroturfing, this is pretty easy to predict.

    Also, it’s always about them.

  17. RonK, some will emerged annoyed.

  18. I just signed on..thanks for getting this up. I too am sick of the DNP.. and want Hillary to become an Independent . I don’t think it will happen, but what can we do to let ourselves be heard? Yes I sent the letter, and I’m now a member here also. Something dynamic..has to happen!!

  19. hlr: “Given their astroturfing, this is pretty easy to predict.”

    heh, You may be right after all.

  20. Obama supporters are REALLY bad at unity though. Have you seen their pathetic attempts in last couple days?

    When I was at the RBC meeting the Obama supporters were really ugly. They were practically having a party right before the committee came back with the fix at 6:00. You could almost see the cloud of smug having over the room.

  21. Latest tracking polls show Obama 46, McCain 42 with a 3 point margin of error. Not much of a bump for the Transcender is it? If these polls continue to show a slide in support over the summer will the party allow the “presumptive nominee” to carry the top of the ticket in November? Provided of course there are no more video surprises out there. Or Rezko revelations. Or Michele letting loose. Or another foreign affair policy gaffe.

  22. Mawm – The hate is reflexive and unrelenting toward anyone and anything that does not share their adoration for Obama, and the belief system that supports it.

    Call it cultish or call it cliqueish, I suspect both Clinton and Obama have underestimated the strength of this dynamic, or how difficult it might be to turn on and off at will.

    I also suspect Obama himself will be the ultimate recipient of this reservoir of bile.

  23. UpstateNY: C’mom, hlr…what is wrong with some unity chanting?

    I don’t have any incense and don’t own a tambourine.

  24. I agree with you, Ronk, about what she will do and WHY she will do it. She must preserve her standing within the party just in case Obama implodes. (I still believe in “bombshells”).

    However, unless that bombshell does explode, I will not -under any circumstances-vote for Obama in NC. (how ironic that polls indicate that Hillary could have turned long-time red state NC blue, while Obama could not).

    This issue has gone way beyond policy and party for me – it is now personal and about principles – and holding the Democratic party accountable for a list of transgressions a mile long:.

    -Starting with a convoluted, idiotic, unfair primary process. What “genius” thought up this mess anyway?

    -a party that bashed the only two term Democratic president in the last forty years,- a party that trashed his wife,- that ignored the wishes of 18 million voters, -that rewrote the rules for the only viable woman candidate in history, -that allowed sexism to penetrate this race from all directions with no dissent, -that insulted one of the most loyal voting group in the party – older women – then patted us on the head and said “now be good little girls”.


    And while my vote for John McCain will be painful, I do not believe it will be fatal to the country. In no way do I believe John McCain wants his legacy tied to that of GWB. In fact, I suspect JM detests W as much as the rest of us.

    I also believe this country is poised to elect their favorite kind of government – the DIVIDED kind – this time with McCain in the WH and a Democratic majority in the House and Senate. I can live with that!

    In the meantime, I “hope” for the bombshell or implosion that “changes” our nominee!!

  25. great post ronk.

    ghost2, great comment,

    like Kim said earlier, you all write so well, I just read and shake my head in agreement and don’t need to post anything.

  26. I am so proud of Hillary. The highlight of this campaign was Tuesday night when that beacon of hope, South Dakota, surrounded by a sea of Obama caucus states said “HILLARY!”. And, then, later, when Hillary refused to play along with that ridiculous charade of legitimacy. Hillary broke the mold for women as leaders because she won like a girl, God love her.

  27. No doubt people are gullible and hear only what they wish to hear. However, Hillary kept winning voters long after she was declared unwinnable in the primary. Somehow that message did not take hold in the voters minds since they gave her some resounding victories even after the death knell was issued.

    My personal thinking is that once they have a look at Obama up close and personal with no Hillary distractions to fall back on, the less they will cling to his campaign. The pollsters will be busy mapping the voters from now until August which could be the argument Hillary is making for Denver.

  28. The unity schtick dies today

    Hillary won’t seek the VP



  29. Let me try this again! No unity schtick for our girl!


  30. I seem to be finding my way into the spam bin

    Hillary will not seek the VP! Yayyyyy!


  31. I tried to post a link but I keep getting trapped the spam filter and I assume it’s the link that’s doing it. Hillary will not seek the VP. You’ll have to trust me or search Yahoo.

  32. Melanie: Hillary refused to play along with that ridiculous charade of legitimacy.

    The way I see it, the media has made clear that the Sat thing is getting forced on us by the party. I thought she was well within her rights to focus on her campaign/supporters Tues b/c we were supposed to let the primaries play out, per Democrats. Instead, the establishment rushed to put him over the top before the night was over.

    So as far as Sat goes, I just see it as more of the Democratic Party Potemkin Village.

  33. another T-shirt idea….

    “That’s not the YOUR NAME HERE that I knew” Barack Obama

  34. Damn Guys, I get through the reading the comments on one post and there is another one. This is great! We are a movement and we are getting noticed. I have had three other sites send me an invitation to come here.

  35. Wolfson said no go, ay?

  36. Anybody look at the Gallup Poll

    No change. McCain still slightly ahead. No bounce from the big win.

    Let’s see if I can link without getting thrown into the spam folder

  37. Hey, that link worked. Wolfson said it’s up to Hillary and Barack. Hillary said she wasn’t seeking VP.

  38. They say “slight bounce”. Wouldn’t you say a 5% bounce is significant? Just for fun you think they could ask Clinton/Obama.

  39. From the Dept of The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves:

    The vast majority of Hillary Rodham Clinton’s congressional supporters in New York will be skipping her Saturday drop-out announcement in Washington – citing reasons ranging from town halls back in their districts to campaign obligations to the observation of the Jewish sabbath.

    Three African-American representatives – Yvette Clarke and Ed Towns for Brooklyn and Gregory Meeks from Queens – privately informed Clinton they had endorsed Obama early yesterday. Clinton staffers have cited skepticism from some New York reps as the reason Clinton backed out when she did.
    In what may be the longest negative RSVP in recent memory, Rangel announced: “Because we are not going to be in session, because of the difficulty in arranging our legislative and political schedules… we thought it would be in the best interests of showing the unequivocal support of what she’s doing… [by] going to our congressional districts this weekend and working hard for the endorsement of the Democratic nominee of these great United States of America.”

    Most NY Reps to Skip Hillary Send Off

    Somebody remind me why she should blather on about unity?

  40. “I believe in all 57 United States of America!” B. Obama

    “This is My Party Now!” B. Obama

    “Everything I Am Or Ever Will Be I Owe to the DNC!” B. Obama

    “She Can Stay In As Long As She Likes!” B. Obama

    “You Are Likable Enough Hillary!” B. Obama

    “Can’t I Just Finish My Waffle?”! B. Obama

    Anyone of these for t-shirts or bumper stickers?

  41. Pledged Delegates, per the DNC

    Hillary 1639.5
    Obama 1766.5

    Restore full voting strength to MI and FL and return Hillary’s stolen 4 delegates (BO keeping his illegitimate “uncommitted” delegates)

    Hillary 1730.5
    Obama 1825.5

    That’s a difference of 95 pledged delegates.

    I had previously estimated (http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/5/28/212655/412) that the use of caucuses rather than primaries resulted in a swing of 123 (actually 124) delegates in Obama’s favor (excluding Iowa). Making the adjustment:

    Hillary 1792.5
    Obama 1764.5

    Hillary won the pledged delegate race.

  42. Ronk, GREAT POST!!!

    I love this:

    PUMAs will follow our own high roads, unclaimed and untamed, padding our ways over the high wilderness ridges on our big cats paws, calm but vigilant, reading the wind for signs of danger — and opportunity.

    PUMAs live high up the mountains, watching what happens below. And yes, we are going to pounce and snap necks.

    The whole PUMA thing is really taking on a life that excites and energizies me. Thank you everyone for being here!

    WE are going to “fight till hell freezes over and then fight on the ice!”

    PUMA Power!

  43. Hello riverdaughter, will you please get in touch with me at orders@dems4mccain.info, I need to discuss a few things with you.

    Also, please check out the PUMA image I made to link to your website from my blog at http://www.dems4mccain.info

  44. hlr, you would think that for “unities” sake, the least they could do is show up. As a die hard Hillary supporter that really offends me. They can’t even be there when she endorses Obama like they demand? Talk about moral support. They really want her to just disappear. And they had to issue a statement to let everyone know?

    That’s fine, my vote will disappear too.

  45. hlr: I think they know what scumballs they are and they’re blaming Hillary.

  46. tabbycat in tenn — it’s pretty clear that they’ve taken the domestic violence approach to Hillary and her supporters.

  47. Teresa: I think they know what scumballs they are and they’re blaming Hillary.

    Yeah. I have to LMAO about Yvette Clarke. She was a holdout from the NY delegation — she endorsed Hillary really, really late. Presumably she was deal-making. When she finally endorsed, she released a statement that was very specific that she had discussed this w/ her constituents who expressed their preference for Hillary.

  48. Could it be that those NY reps know that she is not conceding but only suspending? I personally think that if she was actually backing out they would be by her side.

  49. Yeah. I was already mad this afternoon anyway. I went to the store and I flipped on a talk radio station here in Knoxville. The most well-known jockey/announcer/radio host in this town called her “Hillary Cankles”. I guess that’s a cross between cackles and her ankles.

    I hate men today except for the ones here and my husband and my brother.

  50. Thank God Confluence isn’t joining the faux Hope parade! I was shocked this morning to read Taylor Marsh telling us that voting for McCain is a “revenge” vote. Here is my comment to that, which probably fell on deaf ears:

    If this is going to be how many of us are characterized, then there is a big problem. Because revenge is not why so many of us won’t vote for Obama.

    Please realize something: you yourself believe that Obama would be a better president, with more progressive policies than McCain. Many of us do not share that belief, particularly since Obama has never proven it. Having a (D) behind your name is not sufficient proof, particularly when your rhetoric says something else. That does not mean that our non-vote for Obama is about revenge. It means something far more important: that we will not base our vote on a meaningless initial behind someone’s name, but will base it on who we perceive will better lead this country. Does a McCain vote or a Green Party vote mean that we think McCain is a progressive? Of course not! It means that we have nothing but horrible choices left, and we are contemplating the least damaging.

    Second, many of us are very concerned about the continued viability of the Democratic Party and the preservation of its principles. What we have seen this campaign season has been blatant favoritism of one candidate by the party elite to the detriment of the other. We have seen that elite stack the deck for one candidate. We have seen that elite change the rules to blatantly give unearned delegates to one candidate so he could barely limp across the finish line. Quite frankly, that candidate did not win. The elite gave him the nomination, despite what the electoral polls were showing them, despite the actual popular vote, despite the fact that he won no swing states and lost the vast majority of the blue states to the other candidate.

    If we endorse what the party has done this election, it will never change. This will become commonplace in future elections. We won’t even have the facade of elections that actual voters decide rather than the elite. This cannot stand. I will not endorse this, not even to elect a democrat in the fall. And especially not when I have no confidence that this supposed democrat will really enact the democratic agenda.

    Please do not characterize my rebellion as an act of revenge. There are far larger issues here than the election of one very flawed candidate. The survival of the democratic party AS a “democratic” party is at stake. Never doubt that.

  51. I trust Hillary, and I trust all of you.

    Regardless of what Hillary decides to do, we have many options. Dean, Brazille et al. must be held to account at the very least.

    I am so happy that I have found people like me – Old School Democrats. I have finally found the courage to renounce the elitist nanny-state wing of the Democratic Party. I am repulsed by Left Blogistan and their hatred of ordinary people.

    Let’s ride this out together, and stay committed to a political system that works.

    You people make me proud!


  52. Pat Johnson: Could it be that those NY reps know that she is not conceding but only suspending?

    It’s irrelevant at this point, IMO. Pretty clear from the news today (Not Seeking VP! Honest!) that she’s getting trashed for existing. The crime: not endorsing BO and conceding before the primaries were over.

    If Hillary really had gravitas, she’d get out of the political racket and go straight into activism.

  53. That poll is not good news for Obama. He was expected to get about a 10 point spike this week ahead of McCain after “winning” the nomination. This has to be of concern to those Dem leaders who anointed Obama in their infinite wisdom. I feel sooooooo bad for them.

  54. Cognitive Dissonance: was shocked this morning to read Taylor Marsh

    Why were you shocked? She was in the WP yesterday advertising herself as a conduit to HRC supporters. She knows you better than almost anybody else except the campaign! What a huckster.

    I never spent much time at her site, but I had to laugh at the naked opportunism.

    With respect to ‘revenge vote’ — we have plenty of time to talk about that.

  55. CognitiveDissonance, I couldn’t have said that better myself. I agree 100% with you!!!


    It’s definitely a neck snapper!

  57. hir – LOL! I agree completely.

  58. It’s not a “revenge” vote.

    It’s a vote for putting back “Democracy” in the Democratic Party.

  59. Guys, please sign this petition:


  60. My support will always be with Senator Clinton, even when she strongly supports Obama on Saturday and will no doubt put her heart and soul into his election process.

    But, I will not, cannot follow her there. I understand her reasoning. I even admire her fortitude. But I think each of us will do what we must. And though it’s going to be very hard, I will hold my nose and vote McCain if I have no other choice.

    This will be my personal dissent to a corrupt system, a bankrupt party and a senior leadership that apparently thinks it can “whip us [Dems] into shape.”

    Not this time. I turn my back on that notion. And I will turn my back on the Democratic Party in November because it’s what I can do as a single citizen.

    My vote is not for sale. Enough said.

  61. These comments are all great. I’m smiling from ear to ear. What would I do without you wonderful conflucians?

    I especially enjoy seeing new people. And seeing friends from other blogs.

  62. Why were you shocked? She was in the WP yesterday advertising herself as a conduit to HRC supporters. She knows you better than almost anybody else except the campaign!

    oh, so she planned for everyone to abandon her website when she switched sides overnight?

    Seriously — if I had been marsh, I would have made it clear that I wasn’t voting for McCain….but beyond that, I wasn’t sure what I would do. Then slowly do a lot of posting about how bad McCain is…and wait for McCain to do or say something that provides a pretext say that McCain cannot be allowed near the White House, and although it sucks, we gotta support Obama.

    At least THAT would have been credible.

  63. When Dukakis clinched the Dem nomination, he jumped to a 17 pts lead against Papi Bush.

    Just sayin’.

  64. New here and so glad I found this site, just want to say I agree with about every post on here. I’m a glad to know everyone is as disgusted by the unfair treatment as my husband and really my whole family is.

  65. I’m with Hillary and The Confluence all the way. I can’t bring myself to vote for Obama but I never expected anything less than full commitment from Hillary to help Obama win. She is much, much stronger than many of us. I don’t know how she does it.

  66. “We will listen respectfully to our candidate … and then, with deep regrets, we will go our own ways.”

    Yes, Hillary is a bigger and better person than I am, she might forgive and move on, but for me, like many of her supporters her calls of unity will fall on deaf ears. I never expected Hillary to receive favorable treatment, but I thought it would somehow be fair
    I expected Democrats to be respectful. The way Hillary was savaged will not be forgotten
    How we supporters were demeaned and thrown under the bus by the DNC will not be forgiven. Brazille, Dean and Pelosi have called for a new coalition to the Dem party- so be it. McCain welcomes us with open arms. The siren song of unity will be in full Haka mode, but many of us are beyond that. There is no way, ever, we will be voting for such an unqualified undignified candidate as Barfy

  67. Not to be a wet blanket, but has anyone checked to to make sure use of the Puma image and logo PUMA will not be a copyright/trademark infringement on the athletic shoe company? Just askin’

    Towanda!!! (obviously plaigarised from Fried Green Tomatoes)

  68. The greatest banana slip that 0bambi-heads is coming up.

    All those Republicans and Independents that are the base for Obama’s “momentum” is going to fizzle out when Daddy McCain brings them back to their senses.

  69. New Horizon, RiverDaughter is coming up with a design – DemsforMcCain submitted a great one above.

  70. Waiting for the t-shirts & bumper stickers as that will help in getting the word out beyond the internet community.

  71. I agree with everything most of you have said here. I cannot vote for Obama because I am a woman first, an American second, and then party affiliation comes into play. As a woman, because the DNC & Obama not only did not stand up to the blatantly sexism spewed at Hillary this primary season but actively took part in it, I no longer consider myself a Democrat. As an American, after witnessing the debacle at the RBC last Saturday, I can no longer associate myself with that Party. I am now registered as Unaffiliated (and Howard Dean has my torn up Dem. voter’s registration card). The only way the Dems. will get my vote in Nov. is if there is a summer surprise, and Hillary actually gets the nomination in August. Barring that I will be voting for McCain — not as a “revenge” vote, but as a woman & as an American.

  72. PS — is there an official sign up to become a PUMA? If so, please direct me to it (can’t find it on the site, but I haven’t gone all the way through). If not, consider me a member.

  73. Welcome, welcome, welcome new Conflucians – like Arabella I am so happy to see many new people and
    refugees from other blogs. Please keep strong, we will be invaded by many pretending to be Hillary supporters trying to get us to “unite” and vote for the baby jesus, trying to scare us – “oh please, think of party unity, think of the Supreme Court. Do we really want antohte Bush?” Well… no. that is WHY we don’t want Obambi in the White House- HE IS THE BUSH OF THE DNC! Arrogant, inexperienced, racist, sexist, a puppet to God knows who, dangerous – Axelrod is his Rove(I wonder does he call him Turd Bossom also?) Stay strong Conflucians, Go PUMA!

  74. Angie, just shout at the TV whenever you hear a talking head ask for “Party Unity”


    P arty
    U nity
    M y
    A ss!


    Then, go click on the link on the blogroll that says PUMA Pac, which has a more sanitized version of PUMA:

    P eople
    U nited
    M eans
    A ction

    PUMA Power!

  75. angie,
    It is also on the blogroll on the right side of this page

  76. Who said the Obama campaign wasn’t made of funny guys?

    Apparently, the word among them is that Hillary is not such a great idea as VP because the “Clintons haven’t been fully vetted.”

    Now that’s what I called comedy.

  77. I sent this to HRC:

    The Limits of Loyalty

    A limit to loyalty exists when harm comes to others should the allegiance be continued. Loyalty is used as a mechanism to manipulate others into doing horrendous actions. Consider the concept of greater good. Consider the concept of good faith agreement.

    The DNC did not act in good faith toward the American people and Hillary Rodham Clinton. They violated good faith–they are not owed any allegiance.

    Barack Obama is a liar. He and his campaign have not acted in good faith to the American people and Hillary Rodham Clinton. They violated good faith and, apparently, campaign law in multiple states. He is not owed any allegiance by Hillary Rodham Clinton and the American people.

    To encourage your supporters to accept these violations is to encourage complicity. You may have made a promise, but compare what keeping the promise will bring forth to what breaking the promise will save. A quotation was attributed to you, Senator Clinton, regarding how many times one should forgive. Surely you have done so seven times seventy and more. There are limits to loyalty, Senator Clinton. Please see them and act accordingly.

  78. Oh, angie. Your words really got to me. I will not vote for Obama. I will actively work to expose him and his lies.

    I thought Left Blogistan had taken on the mission of media critique. They are worse than those they media they set out to reform.

    But most of all, I dedicate myself to call the party bosses to account.


    Again, it’s not a “REVENGE” vote.

    We are voting against Obama because we want to put back “Democracy” in the “Democratic” Party.

  80. And can anyone tell me WHO has a running list of Obama endorsements?

    I want to make sure that my vote does not go to any of them.

  81. SM – You are the father of PUMA! An honor to share this space with you, sir.

    It’s not a “Revenge” vote. It’s a “Reality” vote.

  82. I just want to put Democracy back in America.

  83. Since it is not only about the presidential election but the actions of the DNC in general, I would love a “Democrat in Exile” shirt and bumper sticker. It could have a little PUMA in place of the tired, pathetic donkey. What a stupid symbol for a political party, a donkey!

  84. Tom Watson sums it up:

    “Barack Obama is not the nominee of the Democratic Party. I am not
    questioning the strong likelihood of his nomination — but why is it
    so hard for people to get their heads around the fact that the
    expressed preference of superdelegates is in no way legally binds the
    supers? The angry demands that Clinton concede the nanosecond after
    Obama finally got sufficient superdelegate expressed preferences are

    No other Presidential candidate in history who has won nearly so many
    delegates has been subjected to this sort of abuse. What makes it all
    the worse is that much of the abuse comes from within the Democratic
    Party, which should understand only too well the need to persuade the
    17-18 million voters who voted for Hillary to support Obama in the
    fall. You would think that after four months of trying the
    vilification tactic to sever Democratic supporters from Hillary, they
    would have seen it’s not terribly effective — just yesterday, Obama
    lost [his ass in yet] another primary to Hillary. At least try
    something new, folks.”

    http://tomwatson. typepad.com/ tom_watson/ 2008/06/the- obsession- c.html

  85. “And Obama won the one that counts — the mindshare primary — convincing the preponderance of pundits and pols that the nomination goes to the candidate with the most pledged delegates.”

    Truer words, truer words. If only we’d had “leadership” who didn’t allow such distortion.

    I heart HRC and I’m not going to hold it against her when she supports BHO. Of course, I’m also not going to bash her into campaigning for him… which I have a feeling the “leadership” are going to try to make her do… which will just make me even angrier.

    It’s ironic: Getting so jazzed about this primary and, therefore, learning more about the process, has made me less likely to vote the party-line. Good job, DNC!

  86. Arabella! You are too sweet.

    I’m a “mother” – not a “daddy” – I’m a FL voter, 36 yr old Latina single mom and I’m FED UP with th BS “unity” crap.

    PUMA Power!

  87. Honora,
    I love that..’Democrat in Exile.with a PUMA. Perfect.

    so who are our designers here? Brook??

  88. Now this site offers the kind of “Unity” I can believe in!

    How refreshing and uplifting!

    Still for Hill and Bill!!

  89. SM – I should have known you are a woman.

    But male/female, young/old, brilliant/low information or whatever –

    We are growling, prowling PUMA’s

    GO PUMA!

  90. SM, tusconlynn — thank you for your quick response — I just sent an email to sign up to be an official PUMA. Arabella — thanks for the kind words — I feel the same way about you all here & this site — although I haven’t posted regularly before, I’ve been lurking for a while and you all have really boosted my spirits.

  91. I cannot in good conscience vote for Barack Obama. I will not vote for him.

    This is not about “revenge.” I live in California, which is supposedly a solid blue state, so if my vote is critical Obama is already in deep shit.

    I am not protesting. I have no desire to convince anyone I am right or try to change their opinions. This is my decision.

    I don’t care if everyone else decides to drink the kool-aid, and I am the only registered voter in the entire nation who doesn’t vote for Obama.

    Although I am furious at what has happened during this campaign, anger is not my motivation.

    Barack Obama is unqualified to be President. Furthermore, he has, directly and through surrogates, said and done things that disqualifiy him from ever holding that office. Falsely accusing the Clintons of racism is the most egregious example.

    I do not hold it against him that he has remained silent and even taken advantage of the sexism and misogyny directed at Hillary. I do hold it against the Democratic leadership and the “progressive” bloggers.

    If you disagree with me, good for you. I don’t give a shit.

    Party Unity My Ass

  92. SM,
    Were you on the corbett show a couple of weeks ago?
    If so, very brave of you and riverdaughter.

  93. It’s not just an online thing either. Here in Pittsburgh there’s anecdotal evidence of strong resistance to Obama right now.

    1) While walking my dog today I passed through an alley where two retired people were commiserating with each other over the back fence. They are outraged and wanted to know “what those people think they are doing.”

    2) I spoke on the phone to a local activist who I met when canvassing for Hillary in April. She said her neighborhood voted heavily for Obama in the primary (no surprise there, they’re all wealthy “creative class” types), yet now, all the people she chatted with on her block today are talking about voting for McCain, they’re so disgusted. Buyer’s remorse?

  94. I feel as if a burden has been lifted from my soul. As a PUMA, I have no reason to try to defend the tactics the Democratic Party used to “secure” this nomination. I am ready to fight for the future of the party using the Democratic ideals Senator Clinton and the rest of us were raised using. Starting with not stealing votes and including gender and racial equality, LGBT rights, economic and environmental justice among many other formerly core Democratic values. This summer provides the chance for the party to atone for its many mistakes and give the country a chance in November. I am pretty sure I would have already left if the candidate were anybody other than HRC. If nothing has changed by the convention, not even my heroine can keep me in the party.

  95. “Democrats who Can’t Stand McCain for McCain”

  96. The PUMA logo at the dems4mccain website is FANTASTIC. I’d also like a version that just says “PUMA” and doesn’t spell it out so directy.

    And the best thing about the logo is the eyes. We’re watching you. Closely.

  97. Jimbo — Excellent! I’m right there with ya!

  98. Tuscon, I was on the Corbett show – some of us here were. Lori in LA, Riverdaughter – and some others made it in.

  99. hlr, that’s vicious. I guess she’s dirt on everyones shoulder now, huh?

  100. gob,
    You are right. We were in a local dive last night and a group at a table near us were all talking about it. I know everyone in my neighborhood and thought I knew every Hillary supporter around town. These were people none of us knew and they were outraged at what happened. They seemed gleeful at the prospect of what the Republicans are going to do to Obama.
    Buyer’s remorse indeed.
    Like they said in ’04 ‘dated Dean, married Kerry’.
    Dean should have remembered that.

  101. Arabella – you know women are the greatest!

    And yes, us PUMA Democrats aren’t going to take it anymore.

    Remember the song ideas from the other thread? Sweet Charity was great – here is the “I will survive” one I did, I fixed it a little:

    PUMA anthem dedicated to the O-bots:

    At first I was afraid
    I was petrified
    Kept thinking I could never vote
    Outside my party lines

    But then I spent so many nights
    Thinking how Obama did me wrong
    And I grew strong
    When I came here to this blog

    And so you’re back
    From outer space
    I just walked in to find you here
    With that sad comment on this place

    I should have filtered you to spam
    I should have banned your azz to leave
    If I had known for just one second
    You’d be back to bother me

    Go on now go walk out the door
    Just turn around now
    ’cause you’re not welcome anymore
    Weren’t you the one who tried to threaten Roe v. Wade

    Did you think I’d crumble
    When I said I’d vote for McCain
    Oh no, not I
    I will survive

    Oh as long as i know how to vote
    I know I will stay alive
    I’ve got all my life to live
    I’ve got all my vote to give

    And I’ll survive
    I will survive (hey-hey)

  102. Any other wimmins concerned that if we put a picture of a Puma on our cars, people will think we’re saying we’re Cougars? I’m kinda that age!

    Seriously, what if Hill’s delegates stop going to their state conventions because they think she’s out? What if she goes to the convention and doesn’t have all her delegates? I thought of that after reading Regency’s comment on another thread. I don’t know how it works.

  103. For the record, I’ll make my Obama VP prediction today. Hagel.

  104. Joan, that’s a great idea!

    Cougars hunt for younger men.

    PUMAs hunt for DEMOCRACY.

  105. HLR, my prediction will be for a nondescript Stepford Democrat woman – just to pacify us PUMAs.

    Could be Sebelius, Nancy Pelosi or Patricia McSomething, forgot her name but she is a big 0bambi supporter.

  106. SM – The song : brilliant!

    Cougars crouch but PUMAs pounce.

    GO PUMA!

  107. hlr:

    I’m guessing Sebelius or some other femme Dem.

    Because they think Hillary supporters will fall for having a woman on the ticket. They think Hillary’s supporters are a bunch of stupid women.

    We’re not stupid, and some of us aren’t even women.

  108. GO PUMA!

    That’s no unity pony, that’s a pig with lipstick!

  109. My husband says the Obama will pick Jin Dahl, gov of Louisiana. (He’s of Indian descent and he’s Catholic.)

    He got the idea from reading the NY Times. My man is a swell guy, but he thinks the NY Times is a credible source of information.

    Ah well. ‘The course of true love never did run smooth.’

    GO PUMA!

  110. Joan, don’t worry. I’m just an alternate and I made sure I was covered. That was important to me.

    The thing is, as long as HRC has delegates at all, she’s in second place. See what I mean?

  111. Bobby Jindal? He’s a Republican isn’t he?

  112. Arabella, that’s right – Pounce we will.

    Looks like the pouncing is working – PUMAs are spreading wide. I read a couple of mentions on other blogs – good to see that it’s spreading and not just a Confluence thing only. Hooray for Riverdaughter for coming up with that great post “The PUMA un-Party is born.”

  113. I “Hope” by conceding and endorsing
    , the media will leave Hillary alone!!! (or will they follow her around making sure she supports Obama according to their standards – poor choice of words – assumes they have standards! )

    I am sick of seeing her bashed and trashed by this poor excuse of a media we have!!

  114. Not conceding. Suspending.

  115. myiq2xu:

    Sebelius? Some other femme Dem?

    Which one?

    I was checking today and many of those prominent femmes Dem went AGAINST Hillary, which will come back to haunt them.

    I would encourage Obama to choose McCaskill, which will allow me to downright hate a Dem ticket.

  116. Jindal is Republican and often mentioned as a VP for McCain – except he’s only 36 years old! Getting lots of positive attention by Pubs.

  117. myiq2xu, on June 5th, 2008 at 7:16 pm Said:
    GO PUMA!

    That’s no unity pony, that’s a pig with lipstick!

    And a pig doesn’t even have lips!

    PUMAs eat Unity Ponies for lunch.

  118. SM great job on that song!

    My local paper was full of the crap that he will pick a woman to appease Hillary supporters.
    Typical male bulls@%t thinking all vagina’s are interchangeable. Of course they tried to float the idea that our Gov., Janet Napolitano would be on the list.
    Yeah, that will happen.
    Good cover though for Arizona women who don’t like MCCain. I must admit that Axelrove is brilliant.

  119. MAblue!

    Me, too, on McCaskill! What a sellout she turned out to be. And having Obama choose a woman OTHER than Hillary Clinton should “unify” the PUMA’s even more!

    Justice demands that Mr. and Mrs. Obama NEVER occupy the “people’s house”!

  120. Hey, I just donated to Puma Pac! It felt great!!! Thank you for making this possible.

  121. MABlue, on June 5th, 2008 at 7:21 pm Said:

    Sebelius? Some other femme Dem?

    Which one?

    I was checking today and many of those prominent femmes Dem went AGAINST Hillary, which will come back to haunt them.

    I would encourage Obama to choose McCaskill, which will allow me to downright hate a Dem ticket.

    YES, that is the one I was talking about, it’s either Sebelius, Pelosi or McCatskill.

    HA! They’ll never be able to stand in Hillary’s shadow – and they know it. All these women are fueled by Hillary Clinton Envy.

  122. No, I’ll stick w/ Hagel as my prediction.

  123. Tuscon, they may think our vaginas are interchangeable, but our votes WON’T BE this November.

    A vote AGAINST 0bambi, is a vote for putting Democracy back into the Democratic party.

    PUMA power!

  124. Leave it to the DNC. Ah, is that victory I hear?

    No, no it’s not.

  125. Regency,
    Every comment from you is a great bumper sticker!

  126. Evan Bayh has thrown his support to Obama.

    Didn’t hurt as much as I expected. Actually didnt hurt at all. I still hate Bob Casey though.

    Ellen Malcom thinks that were women are all hurt, and angry, and disapointed. Yes, I am. But not for the reasons she thinks.

  127. I didn’t support Hillary because she’s a woman, not do I oppose Obama because he’s black.

    Hillary is a great candidate who happens to be a woman.

    Obama is an unqualified narcissist who happens to be black.

  128. hlr, I’m positive bots will crash the event, and knowing them their great show of unity will include, “Die Billery!” “We hate you all, bitchez!” and other greatest hits. Another day, more voters to alienate.

    “Democrats who Can’t Stand McCain for McCain”

    I want that!!!! Yes!!!!

  129. Hey Everyone!

    It’s sooo good to see so many former Marshans over here?

    this is my new home!

    Intelligent, honest, thoughtful commenters…with brilliant writers. I’m not kidding.

    I certainly appreciate Taylor Marsh’s place on the net, in the beginning..but I think that overall, she’s towing the party line, instead of demanding true change and she is in it for herself. I don’t mean to disrespect her, but really…people who are for change, take pains, and deal with insults…they don’t become hypocrites and ask for “Unity”, CUMBAYAH!

  130. We should probably warn the appropriate people that this whole “Unify Now” schtick is a failure right out the gate. Who wants to do the honors?

  131. Democrats who Can’t Stand McCain for McCain”

    I want that!!!! Yes!!!!
    Little SIster

    EXACTLY my sentiments!

    Dems don’t want us, Republicans do…but I’m not selling my soul for EITHER one.

    And as far as bots, River Daughter doesn’t put up with their crap…so we’re all going to be ok (in more ways than one.)

  132. Here’s an outlier for the Big Zero’s VP — Richard Luger of IN. Yes, he’s a repub. Yes, he’s old, but respected on both sides of the aisle. Very middle of the road, but respected on foreign policy.

    Won’t help to get my vote, but I think this is the type of gamesmanship the Big Zero will try and play. What the DNC might not understand is that the Big Zero, as often a cult personality does, believes he’s bigger than the party. I don’t believe it is unreasonable for him to try and go over the party’s head and make it about himself.

    I don’t know if there has ever been a more unseasoned candidate in the history of the country. And what has he accomplished? Nothing. No business experience. No military experience. No philanthropic experience.

    What’s he do well? He reads a good teleprompter. He’s unabashedly self-promoting. He’s self-aggrandizing. He’s ambitious to point of unashamedly using others.

    Folks, this goes beyond politics. This goes to the basis of our democracy. It is like the closing line in the movie “The Candidate,” — “What do we do now?”

    Only with the Big Zero, there won’t be any “we” only “I”.

  133. SM, on June 5th, 2008 at 7:27 pm Said:
    Tuscon, they may think our vaginas are interchangeable, but our votes WON’T BE this November.

    A vote AGAINST 0bambi, is a vote for putting Democracy back into the Democratic party.

    PUMA power!

    I don’t have a vagina, but if I did, I guarantee it wouldn’t be interchangeable…OR my vote! 🙂

  134. “Democrats who Can’t Stand McCain for McCain”

    lol, lol

  135. mamamimi, on June 5th, 2008 at 7:24 pm Said:

    Me, too, on McCaskill! What a sellout she turned out to be. And having Obama choose a woman OTHER than Hillary Clinton should “unify” the PUMA’s even more!

    Justice demands that Mr. and Mrs. Obama NEVER occupy the “people’s house”!


    Don’t forget..Obama gave alot of money to McCaskill’s campaign.

    I can’t stand her.

  136. SM, on June 5th, 2008 at 7:22 pm Said:
    myiq2xu, on June 5th, 2008 at 7:16 pm Said:
    GO PUMA!

    That’s no unity pony, that’s a pig with lipstick!

    And a pig doesn’t even have lips!

    PUMAs eat Unity Ponies for lunch.


    Haha, that is some funny stuff…

  137. I also suspect Obama himself will be the ultimate recipient of this reservoir of bile.

    Well, he’s going to have to walk back a number of things he promised during the primaries.. and the willing suspension of disbelief can only hold for so long.. though I know the creative writing class will do their best.

    I do think some of the bile comes from the top levels of Obama’s camp itself and that Samantha Power’s “monster” comment was pretty representative of what they really think.

    I’ll be at the Saturday event so I’ll let yall know what the crowd is like. 🙂

  138. To all Conflucians, especially BB:

    Our pal is on a roll with his Bigots Awards.

    WARNING: Don’t drink near the computer while watching this!!!

  139. paul lukasiak: oh, so she planned for everyone to abandon her website when she switched sides overnight?

    Hey, shes a superdelegate, don’tcha know? One with journalistic integrity, of course.

  140. SM, you go girl!

  141. Charles,

    I like the way you think. There’s only about eight states where PUMAs will need to roam this fall — and that should be quite doable for us.

    PA, OH, MI, FL, VA, CO, NV, NM

    Three out of the eight and the Big Zero is toast.

  142. Dar1a g, please know that you are representing the Conflucians & PUMAs!

    I hope they televise it.

  143. I’m a PUMA. So I won’t be voting for Obambi in November. Goes against my new party.

  144. Just came from TL. one of Jeralyn’s latest posts:

    “Anyone Watching Obama’s Speech?
    It’s on now. He’s talking about change.”

    You have to like Jeralyn.

    Also, can somebody tell BTD that an O/H is not going to happen.

    Finally, what happened to TM comment sections?

  145. Hi Wig Wag! How’s Macondo doing?

    Everybody, please read this GREAT POST by Sugar from Sugar & Spice, posted at No Quarter.

    For those of you who don’t know Sugar, she’s an African-American Hillary Supporter with a kick-ass blog called Sugar n’ Spice, listed on the Confluence Blogroll.

    Obama’s Nomination Feels Like O.J. Just Got Off

    Only this time, I’m not happy. Yes, I was one of those idiots who nearly danced in the streets, missing one of my classes during my sophomore year of college to watch the O.J. Simpson trial verdict.

    I was one of those who was happy he got off because, “We [meaning Blacks] never get off! Let him get off!” It was only many years later that I grew mature enough [I was 18 or 19 years old during that time…] to realize that we were all wrong to celebrate that verdict because as sure as God made Moses, “The Juice” was guilty as hell.

    A woman and her companion were killed viciously at the hands of a madman and we all celebrated–in a show of Black unity. But, look at what that got us. O.J. didn’t give a shit about us. We were rallying around that block head, shouting “If it don’t fit, you must acquit” and all of that other jazz, but we were being foolish and pigheaded. Johnnie Cochran was doing his job as a defense attorney….

    Same as O.J., Barack Obama doesn’t give a shit about Black America. I’m pretty sure he doesn’t care all that much about any of America in fact.

    He wants power. He used those folks in Chicago to get power there and same as I told you months ago that he would toss them aside when he was done–he has. Now, he will attempt to woo the American electorate as a whole, but his negatives will beat him to the finish line.

    The DNC had no business shoving him down the throats of this party with as many negatives as he has. The greatest saving grace that this country has is that John McCain is the Republican nominee and not somebody like Mike Huckabee or Ron Paul. If, when the final vote is cast at the Convention in August, Obama is the official nominee, I will once again hang my head in shame of this party and just like O.J., Obama will be getting away with a crime. He is guilty of misleading his supporters into believing he is something he is not and just like with O.J., we will all be forced to admit that soon enough.

    He had no business declaring himself the nominee last night when he had not won enough pledged delegates to truly win the nomination and certainly not when Hillary has the lead in the popular vote. This should have been taken to the Convention to be decided. Obama has so many negatives attached to his swizzlestick of a body, the Republican Attack Machine (R.A.M.) won’t even have to expend too much energy to make him look bad.

    What say you Hillfans!? My emotions are all over the place. One minute, I feel like “take it to the convention!!” The next minute I feel like Dan suggested in the comments and I figure Hillary should just tell Obama to go fuck himself and let him beg for her supporter’s votes over the next few months, sit back and watch him get his ass kicked in November and then she can make another run for it in 2012.

    Then, the final minute of it all, I feel like if I were her, I would again tell Obama to go fuck himself where joining forces full time is concerned, feign support for him and do a smidgen of campaigning on his behalf and start thinking about running for the position of Governor of New York and give presidential politics my ass to kiss. Who knows what Hillary will ultimately decide, but I can tell you what Sugar already knows. I won’t vote for Obama as president for anything in this world. He could have Al Gore as his running mate and nothing doing for me. It’s my vote and I get to use it however in the hell I please and I can promise anyone who cares to inquire, it won’t be for Barack Hussein Obama. –SUGAR

  146. I just got an interesting email through Hillary’s Voices, the Yahoo group of Hillary grass roots supporters. It was information from someone in the know about how Hillary’s suspension happened. Apparently she spent Tuesday making calls to super delegates and was getting a lot of resistance – it became clear that the supers had basically been told by the DNC not to allow/give Hillary the support needed to take it to the convention. When the question of whether or not he is electable in November came up, there were those who conceded that he may not be able to get elected, but that the new voters and money he brings to the party will be good for the future of the party downticket. She was basically given no way forward except to concede. And then the media leaked that she was going to concede so she decided to stick a finger in their eye and do it on her own terms, hence the victory speech Tuesday night.

    I don’t know how accurate this is, I believe it to be good information since it sounds like what we have suspected all along. If the email comes in a more readable form, I will post it here. And if it is true, ha, talk about fixing. These people are utter fools.

  147. I am mad at Evan Bayh. He should have waited until Hillary gave her official speech. He is my Senator and I have always liked him (he is moderate, but no way a liberal could be elected in Indiana). I will be sending him an email today. He wants VP, I do know that much.

  148. Hey Prolix, don’t forget CT! Small but mighty.

  149. I’m sure it’ll be on TV somewhere.

    Incidentally, did anyone else notice that Obama managed to make a pretty big gaffe just out of the gate as presumed nominee? At AIPAC he declared “Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel, and it must remain undivided.”

    And now he has to walk it back..
    But a campaign adviser clarified Thursday that Obama believes “Jerusalem is a final status issue, which means it has to be negotiated between the two parties” as part of “an agreement that they both can live with.”

    It’s going to be a lot of work telling people What Obama Really Meant. This is not good. The US media weren’t paying attention but the rest of the world certainly was.

  150. JJ:

    Now the Democratic leadership puts pressure on the membership to toe the line. They used to call it “party discipline”

    Where the hell was it on Iraq, FISA, torture, etc.?

  151. Could someone post what Malcolm said about women being hurt? I would like to send her a letter explaining where I am coming from. Am I hurt? Hell yes. Sad? Of course. But that is NOT why I refuse to support Obama. Not at all. Time heals all wounds, I have no doubt that I will move on and “get over it,” though Hillary will always be an icon. My refusal to support Obama has everything to do with HIS actions and HIS OWN lack of qualifications. Womens rights go far beyond Roe v. Wade and I really wish one of these womens groups, NOW or Emily’s List would STAND UP for the interests of women and explain that to the media. They don’t have to advocate for our position, but at least they could use their platform to understand that this isn’t just the little women who are mad and emotional, this is about the little women understanding that the more qualified woman was passed up for the unqualified man and that we are sick to death of this crap. This is about the little women being disgusted that the DNC did not stand up against rampant women bashing. This has nothing to do with hurt feelings and everything to do with principles.

  152. JJ, I got that email too. I’ve speculated before that the party didn’t necessarily value winning the election as much as the lure of $$$$$ and new voters. Unfortunately I speculated on a site where others were largely pro-Obama and got told off. 🙂

  153. Ha, myiq, no kidding. Nancy No Impeachment Pelosi had it in her all along, it just didn’t matter until it was about beating up on Hillary. Bush gets a free pass, but not Hillary. Thugs.

  154. Republicans don’t really want me.. They will want to put me in one of their ” log cabins” and have me just be quiet. If I am well-behaved maybe they will let me hang out with Mary Cheney for an hour or so. Honestly, I don’t think I could stand much more than that.

    Democrat in Exile..sounds more to the point.

  155. dar1a-g, I hope some brave person tells the story one day about all the backroom shenanigans that have gone on. If the account in the email is true, it is clear that she got strongarmed into conceding. They made it impossible for her to continue. I knew our girl wasn’t just a quitter – if there was ANY hope for her to get this at the convention, I have NO DOUBT that she would have taken it there. Teddy Kennedy was allowed, why isn’t she? The fact that they KNOW they may lose this election and don’t think it is a big deal makes all of their screaming about DON’T. YOU. DARE. VOTE. MCCAIN meaningnless. Their willingness to accept a loss at the presidential level for more money and potentially more down ticket power tells me all I need to know – McCain isn’t as bad as I thought he was. So for you folks in swing states, vote for McCain. The Dem leadership knows he very well may win and they don’t have a problem with it.

  156. dar1a-g:

    The Dem leadership strategy resembles a pro football team losing on purpose so they will get better draft picks next year.

    If Obama could produce all these new voters, he would have actually won the nomination long ago.

  157. OK, let me try one …

    U nity?
    P uhlease!

    Y ou
    O bviously
    U nderestimate
    R eal
    S olidarity
    ! !!!

  158. Two states,

    I stand corrected.

    The point is a good one — the electoral path for the Big Zero is much, much more precarious than McCain’s.

    There are many rabbit holes between here and there for the Big Zero and one very well could be in CT.

  159. So we’ve once again moved from suspension to concession?

    Ah, well.

  160. It will be suspension. If it moves to concession, she will not longer be able to raise money to retire the debt.

  161. Regency, if something EXPLOSIVE comes out (such as a certain rumored tape…please visit Noquarter to see Obama’s non-denial denial about the tape when asked by an MSM reporter…), then Hillary has hung on to her delegates and can jump in. Given that the dem leadership doesn’t seem to care about losing the election though, nothing may shake them. But in any case, Hillary can jump in if he implodes…given the high number of gaffes both he and Mrs. Obama have made, I don’t put it past them to say something truly heinous or for yet another 20 year friend to come out of the woodwork…

    Barring that, Hillary in 20112…

  162. JJ, I’m only making the distinction because you mentioned concession and that differs extremely from suspension.

    I just wanted to clarify. Thanks!

  163. I may give up on reality and just look for a good fantasy. Rico?

  164. SM, funny you should mention Macondo. I have that book open right now on my lap and the computer on my coffee table. Every time I hear something about the election I feel like my head is going to explode. But that I go back and re-read my favorite first line in all of literature. The first line of One Hundred Years of Solitude..”Many years later, as the faced the firing squad, Colonial Aureliano Buendia remembered the time many years earlier, when his father first took him to discover ice.”

  165. No one in this party has respect for Hillary. They steal her delegates and then try to force her out of the party

  166. How do I make a quotes? or bold text

  167. ronk, I like that!

  168. My 82 year old mother says that Obama is “too tired” to continue running for president. She thinks he’ll call in sick before the end of July.

    My mama raised nine children. She knows malingering when she sees it.

  169. I must reread my copy of 100 Years of Solitude. Everybody keeps referring to it again.

    We are still not being taken seriously in the media. O’Reilly had two women guests who believe that we are angry now but will come back in November owing to party unity. One was a Repub the other Dem. I wanted to heave something at the tv.

    This campaign has been sordid and hateful. Just insert whenever you see “hope” and “change” instead.

  170. DownListen, like this, delete the spaces.

    Bold: [whatever word]



  171. Arabella: You inherited her biting wit!

  172. Thanks, Pat!

  173. Okay. My bad. Try that again, delete *.

    Bold: [whatever]

    Quote: [whatever]

  174. Never mind! Too hard. The tags disappear if they aren’t right.

  175. Ann, I think he is setting up his bar by the swimming pool.

  176. SM– I love your song, may I be President of your Fan Club? What the DNC has decided that I am too old and bitter to be President, I bet I know who they will pick?

  177. Bold:[Democratic leaders do not respect Hillary at all.] I just read an article that has made me start shaking. I am so furious and angry at the way they talk about Hillary. I want Hillary to leave this party. We need to start a massive campaign to make Hillary see the party she believes in doesn’t share the same principles she has.

  178. SM: Elton John was a big Hillary supporter and someone not afraid of confrontation. Wonder if he would be agreeable to recording that song? How great would that be?

  179. Pat J:

    John Cole at Balloon Juice proclaimed his cluelessness today, and Atrios actually linked to it with approval.

    According to Cole, die-hard Hillary supporters are old women who identify with her, that”s why they get so angry. He thinks we blame everything bad on misogyny.

    First of all, I’m male, and secondly, Cole is full of shit.

  180. Obama has really been a gaffe machine lately. I think there’s a high chance he’ll say something explosive himself in the next few months. Or several. Did anyone hear if any cable news picked up the AIPAC thing?

  181. ronkseattle, on June 5th, 2008 at 8:17 pm Said:
    OK, let me try one …

    U nity?
    P uhlease!

    Y ou
    O bviously
    U nderestimate
    R eal
    S olidarity
    ! !!!

    Ronk, I LOVE IT!!!!!

    WigWag, I knew you were re-reading it again, that’s why I asked. Hey, we should have a weekly cocktail hour with a Book Theme. I got some good summer reading ideas & heading to the library tomorrow. Did you read his latest short novella, Memorias de mis Putas Tristes? (title in English is I think “Memories of my Melancholic Whores) not the most feminist of titles but definitely worth reading.

  182. Cream City on TL just said that Tweety said it’s going to be Sebelius (per his inside sources). Would they really think we’re that stupid?

  183. Atrios is such a disappointment.

  184. Hi Confluencians, I had an unexpected appointment and now an unexpected errand. But, I’ll be back soon.

    I just had to stop and wave!

  185. They like to lose so I wouldn’t even be surprised.




  186. tabbycat – Yes, they think we are that stupid.

  187. myiq2z: That’s why I love you. You always make me laugh!

  188. From the Providence Journal via Rasmussen


    Will the anger subside? I think everytime Obama comes on the anger rises up again.

    Hillary would have won the nomination had they just revoted Michigan or followed the actual election returns. We’ll see what happens over the summer.

  189. I may not look like Cindy Crawford but I am no “old lady”! Jesus, these people make me sick.

  190. PUMA

  191. Honora, aw thanks! The song is a take-off from I will Survive. Riverdaughter was right, we are suffering from battered spouse syndrome but this tuime we aren’t going to take it anymore. OBAMA AIN’T THE BOSS OF ME!

    Pat, it’s a take from I will survive so I don’t know if Elton will do it – but hey, it’s worth putting it out there!

  192. Quote:


  193. Ugh, they are so disrespectful of her in that article. I am really disappointed in Rangel and Frank, they really could have given her time to get out. She will stay nice stuff on Saturday and then I hope her and Bill go on a nice long, hidden vacation with Chelsea.

  194. When Kathleen Sebelius made her counter statement after the last State of the Union Address I almost fell asleep. She is BORING! Has about as much dynamism as Shuffling Sally.

  195. I want Obama to loose the GE

  196. I wish her a lot of late mornings and sex on the beaches. Good for her.


    In place of news or something, I’m watching the movie Ice Age. I forgot how funny it was.

  197. I do look exactly like Cindy.

  198. “To do otherwise could hurt her chances of obtaining a powerful slot in the coming administration, perhaps even the No. 2 post. And her supporters are vigorously lobbying for Obama to tap Clinton as his running mate.”


  199. Example of quote: replace * with

    *blockquote* whatever */blockquote*

  200. Arabella, I’m probably a non-voter. If he picks her, I’ll vote for McCain out of anger. I’m in Tenn so it won’t matter anyway. It will just add to McCain’s landslide.

    lol Upstate.

  201. Replace it with the greater than or lesser than symbols.

  202. You know which moments don’t get talked about enough? The interview Obama did in February in which he said he could get her voters but she could not get is, or when Michelle said on GMA that she wasn’t sure she could support Hillary if she was the nominee, it would depend on her “tone.” Those two interviews, for me at least, were the birth of my own PUMA attitude and everything has gone downhill from there. Why doesn’t anyone in the media ever talk about those moments and how they led to such disunity? Maybe if we had an official post on it here they would get picked up and talked about a little bit more.

  203. If Obama picks any woman, now rumored to be Sebelius, she’s going to be known as the “Stepford Democrat.”

  204. Did you all see the new site started by Maggie Williams at


    Check it out, register, sign the petition!
    We have another refuge!!!

  205. Confluence really is exploding. Every post gets upwards of 200 comments now. THat used to be TM. Is it still like that? I haven’t been back and don’t intend to go.

  206. The blog stats are just ridiculous. Remember, I want a party with balloons for our 1000K hit.

  207. testing

  208. SM, on June 5th, 2008 at 8:54 pm Said:
    If Obama picks any woman, now rumored to be Sebelius, she’s going to be known as the “Stepford Democrat.”

    She’s going to be known as “Not Hillary” for the rest of her career.

  209. JJ you are soooo right. They were the ones who put it out there first. And we have proof to throw it back in their faces.

    So you know what? Win without me. PUMA POWER!

  210. Yeah, I saw pm. Interesting.

    Regency. Hard to tell yet, but I think traffic (postings) may have taken a hit.

  211. pm317, that website was not started by Williams, Clinton’s campaign manager. It was started at the grass roots. I think her email address is listed under a call to action to email her and tell her to stay in.

  212. A cardboard box is more interesting than Sebelius.

    As for the Republicans will probably launch attacks that does maximum damage in Michigan, and Ohio. They know the Foundry states are his weakness and will exploit it using cultural wedge issues and national security.

  213. Open Letter to Obama;

    Please do not put Hillary on the ticket. It will make you look bad. No, I mean really bad.

    She is so much smarter and graceful than you ever could be that she would absolutely outshine you at every turn. A “transcender” cannot afford that.

    If you think your under 30 crowd would rebel you have no idea how the over 50 crowd would react. Besides, we both know that you have a lot of problems in your own background right now that needs attention and you don’t want to have to spend your time looking over your shoulder while she is busy getting things done. You know she can do it since her record is proven. We won’t discuss yours.

    You need to choose someone who compliments you before you find out “who they really are”. You know, much like you have done in the past with your friends and associates. The bus will remain parked out in back of the WH ready for use.

    So please, do not consider her as a second choice. She will only underscore your own deficiencies and that, as Martha Stewart might say, not a good thing. I mean, Hillary already knows all about Jerusalem and the problems in settling that sticky problem involves.

    Thank you for reading this note. I know you hate a messy desk which, as you have pointed out, is one of your major defects.

  214. Regency – OMG, too true. “Not Hillary” Sebelius.

    Sebelius = Dollar Store version of Hillary.

  215. DefeatoCrat Taylor Marsh is losing her fan base. Good.

    Probably she has 6 listeners to her radio show, down from 13. Good.

  216. JJ: Michelle said on GMA that she wasn’t sure she could support Hillary if she was the nominee, it would depend on her “tone.”

    It’s an absurd double-standard. Yet, Hillary is an evil harridan for not jumping to BO instantaneously.

    BTW, she’s already been pushed into fundraising for BO/DNC. I’m sure after Saturday’s event, I’ll be getting fundraising pitches for both.

  217. Have you seen this?

    Obama needs to “pacify” angry white women
    Posted on June 5th, 2008 by everyvotecounts

    I find it ironic that even though the author here is trying to get our point across, he is still using patronizing language in his title. I personally find the word pacify in this context…you know…give ‘em something and shut ’em up.


    WASHINGTON — Barack Obama has some urgent making up to do among a lot of angry white women.

    They are lifetime Democrats who spurned him for Hillary Clinton in the primaries and now are threatening to stay home or even vote for Republican John McCain.

    Amid all the talk about a first black president, some women are deeply disappointed, in some cases furious, that Clinton’s own historic campaign fell short and that Obama’s campaign undercut her along the way.

    Her loss was painful for women who have encountered sex discrimination themselves, especially older women who saw her as the best hope for electing a female president in their lifetimes.

    Obama himself must heal the rift with women, said Clinton fund-raiser Susie Buell of San Francisco, or a new brand of ‘’stay-at-home moms” might sit out the election.

    ”I know that women are very worked up right now,” she said. Obama ”has never apologized for the way Hillary has been treated.”

    ”Worked up” could describe Cynthia Ruccia, a Democratic activist in Ohio who got a phone call from party chief Howard Dean about her concerns last week.

    ”Way too little, way too late,” says Ruccia, who also says she’d prefer to see McCain elected over Obama. AP

    HOWARD DEAN called Ruccia, the woman who started Clinton Supporters Count Too??? That just pisses me off. He sits quiet against the sexism until someone threatens to work against the Democrats (and gets more than 100,000 responses by email to her one or two interviews) and then he starts to suck up.

    Eff off Howie.

  218. I snuck a pick at her website. The postings are around 250 which is about half of what she drew before. How long can you keep the Obamabots entertained if they only have themselves to ridicule? I doubt the hate McCain crowd can remain as creative as they were with the Hillary bashing.

  219. EJ Dioone’s column today said Hillary disqualified herself from the VP job Tuesday night by not kissing Obama’s ass.

    I hear little lord cheeto was livid because Hillary didn’t say enough nice things about the Precious in her speech.

    John Cole actually counted the number of times Hillary and Obama each said “we” and “I” in their speeches.

    He thinks it means something.

  220. Let’s be fair to Taylor. We knew what she was gong to do and we’ve known that for the last few weeks. We can’t be mad at her for doing what we knew she’d do. She has made a career being a Democrat. I have not.

    Therefore I don’t go there anymore. Let’s not be upset with her. She does what she has to.

  221. Pat, SO FUNNY.

  222. For the record, Pat and Upstate are much prettier than Cindy Crawford. I have a hard time deciding if Obama’s VP should be Richardson, Sebilius or McCaskill. I personally would take most pleasure in voting against Richardson ( It would also be great to see how badly he did in the debates against any warm body that McCain would pick). It would make me sad if either Sebelius or McCaskill got to be a Democratic VP. Both would suck, but they would at least get to share that honor with Geri Ferrarro and that would be tragic.

  223. Pat, once the obamabots take over a place that blog becomes an Official No Fun Zone.

  224. What about the Latinos, gays, blue collars he so casually pushed aside? It isn’t merely the women who are up in arms. There is a whole lot of other people as well. To maintain that this is the only constituency is denying facts. We embody a whole lot more than just women.

  225. myiq2xu: Hillary disqualified herself from the VP job Tuesday night by not kissing Obama’s ass.

    Total BS. We’ve been hearing for months that it’s the establishment Democrats and the Obamas that don’t want her as VP. Excuse-making in the press to cover for BO.

  226. Pat, their wilful ignorance will be their downfall.

  227. Regency: We can’t be mad at her for doing what we knew she’d do

    I’m not mad and don’t even know her. I’m just laughing at her brazen attempt to offer up her ‘herding the cats’ service in the WP yesterday.

  228. I remember Richardson heming and hawing when asked about his position on gay rights. Bad answers.

    McGaskill can giggle over her speeches because her 18 yr old daughter wants her to vote for Obama and she just couldn’t contain herself.

    Sebelius, enough said. Sleep inducing.

  229. McCaskill??? I remember someone here or Talk Left and he/she said, “between the two of them, they have one Senate term.”

    The Republicans will try their darndest to scare people in the fall just like they always do and I wonder if his foreign policy non creds will move people away from him. I think so. Wouldn’t picking a VP for national security credibility reasons just highlight your own weaknesses on the issue?

  230. hlr – Yes, me too.

    You can’t herd PUMAs.

  231. Hear, hear Regency.

    I found the Confluence via TM.

    For that she has my respect.

  232. Truth is I didn’t even bother reading TM’s article. I don’t read much in the way of news anymore. Not until Saturday when they’ll hopefully leave Hillary alone. Then I’ll feel safe in doing it so I can watch McCain stomp Obama.

  233. For the record, I could care less whether BO ‘apologizes’ for the way Hillary was treated during the primary. He took whatever advantage he could and now the primary is OVER.

  234. Regency, on June 5th, 2008 at 8:51 pm Said:

    Replace it with the greater than or lesser than symbols.

    Thank you

  235. Pat you took the words right outta my mouth.

    LATINOS are the sleeping giant everybody forgets. But that’s ok, because FL, NV, CA, NM will be RED with Latinos voting for McCain.

    Between 60-70% of Latinos voted for Hillary in this election. THAT’S A LOT. And screw the “they don’t know Obama.” We know him now, and we like Hillary better.

  236. hir: And that plays nicely into his lack of character.

  237. SM, no se, no se…. We’ll see what happens with the whole immigration debate.

  238. I’ve a few words for Mr. Babington of the Asses Personified News Service:

    1. I have no vagina;

    2. I passed furious 10 miles back;

    3. This wasn’t a loss, it was a “rigging” by Dr. Demento, Brazile Nut and their ilk;

    4. Worked up — I work up a sweat, I work up a lather, to vote for the Big Zero I would have to work myself down to voting for someone with no experience, no real sense of self, nothing but blind ambition. Thank you very much, but I prefer to stay worked up.

    5. While women might number larger than us furious men who will not vote for the Big Zero, we are no less dedicated to the election of anyone other than the Big Zero.

    Come see me around 2012.

  239. Arabella Trefoil, on June 5th, 2008 at 9:10 pm Said:
    hlr – Yes, me too.

    You can’t herd PUMAs.

    Quote of the day! You damn sure as hell CAN’T herd us – we ain’t sheep! We are PUMAs.

    Loud, roaring, pissed off PUMAs – try to herd us and you’ll be missing some body parts – and missing a victory in November ’08.

  240. SM: They love her in NY. They love her in Puerto Rico. They love her in NV. They love her in CA. In ten yrs theirs will be the largest voting block in the US. Their struggles will make them more Democratic than what is going on now. Anyone who takes them for granted will pay a heavy price at the polls when that day comes. Bet on it.

  241. #
    JJ, on June 5th, 2008 at 8:58 pm Said:

    pm317, that website was not started by Williams, Clinton’s campaign manager. It was started at the grass roots. I think her email address is listed under a call to action to email her and tell her to stay in.

    jj, I guess you are right. I took it from Susan at noquarter and went to the site and on the About Us page they have Maggie Williams’s email but looking closely that is only to contact Hillary Clinton’s campaign. OK, my mistake, sorry.

  242. Oh, great! Now it’s “angry white women” who are “worked up” about something?

    Hint: There’s more to this problem than prickly heat.

  243. UpstateNY, on June 5th, 2008 at 9:15 pm Said:
    SM, no se, no se…. We’ll see what happens with the whole immigration debate.

    WHY do you think Republicans hate John McCain?

    One of the reasons is immigration reform. McCain’s been fighting on our side for a very long time on this.

    Dubya Bush won in 2004 because his ads on the Spanish-language channels addressed immigration reform, but Kerry’s didn’t. That’s why Bush got so much of the Latino vote.

  244. Open thread open up top.

  245. I may be mistaken, but isn’t one of the largest voting blocks in FL the Latino vote? I know they have a lot of retirees who always vote but I thought the Latino vote was catching up or overtaking them.

  246. Pat Johnson, on June 5th, 2008 at 9:16 pm Said:
    SM: They love her in NY. They love her in Puerto Rico. They love her in NV. They love her in CA. In ten yrs theirs will be the largest voting block in the US. Their struggles will make them more Democratic than what is going on now. Anyone who takes them for granted will pay a heavy price at the polls when that day comes. Bet on it.

    And we are talking about very different Latino populations & countries of origin, yet 60-70% of these varied populations go for Hillary. WHY?

    Because it’s not so much that WE know HER, but that SHE knows US, and has worked very hard for Latino issues for decades.

  247. No one honestly believes Hillary wants veep, do they? She’s smart enough to recognize the Hindenburg when she sees it.

  248. Pat you are correct once again – FL is a Latino state. And a swing state. But in Obama world, we are 1/2 a state.

  249. riverdaughter, if you get a chance, please erase my posts about clintondems.com — don’t want to spread the misinformation. I am generally very careful.

  250. Halperin says GOP “wiseguys and gals” think McCain only has a 30% chance against Obama:


    Politico says “McCain mulls blowout” before Obama won the delegates.


    Which one is right? Are they just trying to build up the underdog role like when McCain was dead in the water last year?

    Looking at the map, I would say McCain has a slight edge right now before the right wing attacks. Obama basically has a Kerry map plus perhaps Iowa and New Mexico. New Hampshire moves to McCain and he just needs to lock up Virginia and Colorado (Colorado would probably be easier and remember, if it wasn’t for his macaca moment, Allen would have won and even then Webb barely won). Then the battle moves to the Midwest and they’ll duke it out in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Ohio. There’s a chance Pennsylvania would move to McCain if the right wing can do a potent attack.

  251. Referring to Virginia when I talked about Webb and Allen but I worded it kind of wierdly.

  252. Just heard Clinton and Obama are meeting at her house at this moment.

  253. SM: you may be wright about immigration. We will see.

  254. WS,

    I totally agree on the VA comments — Webb is a one-termer if there ever was one.

    VA will be red this fall.

  255. Excuse me. I guess the tone of your articles should be ignored? Nay, you talking heads have fun, for the most part, about 95%, we have tuned you out. I went to your site because you have been somewhat fair in the past. But alas, you have drunken the koolaid. Hillary should be revered, but you all are too jealous of her strength, compassion, and record of experience working for ‘low information, old, white, racist, bible AND gun clinging, uneducated people like me all of her life. President Clinton has been trashed, vilified, and his words and record distorted by the likes of “media heads” and the obambi campaign.
    We will be voting for McCain in November. It is not so much a vote in revenge, but a vote to take our country back. We will not be sold to the highest bidder. Our votes are sacred, written in the blood shed by our forefathers and foremothers, not to be toyed with. The shambles the DNC/RBC made @ the 5/31/08 meeting was an insult to the integrity of this nation.
    My family has fought in many wars for those sacred rights…We will fight this one within our boarders.
    Ask yourselves, the so called media, where is your outcry @ the destruction of our democracy?

    Enjoy your Koolaid,

    I sent this to craig crawford

  256. I had sent him an earlier letter and he had asked me, “what koolaid, Hillary dropped out”

  257. Apparently BO was not willing to meet with Hillary without preconditions…
    Fox News is reporting that she had to promise she wouldn’t talk about VPness. LOL

  258. “Democrats who can’t stand McCain…for McCain”

    Jimbo — were not worthy. I nearly choked on my ice tea when I read this. I will post it where ever I go and credit you.

  259. For those who wish to stay together in a long term commitment to the ideals and rinciples that Hillary Clinton has spent a lifetime promoting, http://Together4Us.com offers access for activists, funders, students, policy-makers and ordinary people to come together in support of each other and their goals for America. Please come to our website and join, use the code below to put our linked logo on your website and distribute our message and this code to all your network. Spread the word. We will be happy to put up a reciprocal link, your own co-branded web page on our site, or your own blog.

    Thanks so much,
    Gretchen Glasscock,

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