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The Heat is On

How do we know? US Rep. Alcee Hastings (D-FL), who announced his intention to boycott the Democratic National Convention just last Sunday, today announced his endorsement of Barack Obama “with enthusiasm and excitement” (in company with three other House members from Florida who have been supporting Clinton).

This is an open thread. (That doesn’t mean Obamabot scolds are welcome.)

330 Responses

  1. old news, ron.

    in fact, Hillary is already fundraising for BO and the DNC to ensure she has a future in the Dem party or some such.

  2. This is creepy. It’s hard not to get conspiracy theorist on stuff like this.

  3. The DNC’s announcement that they won’t accept money from lobbyists per Obama’s orders scares me, actually. There hasn’t been (and won’t be) any such announcement from the RNC.
    Unilateral disarmament?
    I cannot see a circumstance that would allow me to vote for BO.
    I want an Adminisitration, not a goddamn Movement.
    Historically, Movements are dangerous.

  4. It is absolutely absurd. The fix is on and we have got to be strong.

  5. I know this changes my vote, how ’bout y’all? (/snark)

  6. Administration-damn cat in front of my computer screen–argggh.
    To repeat, I want an honest to goodness Administration, not a Movement like Neo-Liberalism that brought us Vietnam or Neo-Conservatism (shudder) that brought us the Iraq horror.
    No Movements and no Saviors.

  7. lisadawn82: This is creepy.

    lisadawn82, this is Howard Dean. I would like for you to keep your eyes on this pencil. Concentrate. You’re getting tired. You’re losing your free will lisadawn82.

    When I count to three, you will say ‘UNITY.’

  8. Maybe it’s not so bad. I’d like to see Hill’s supporters talk it up big for BO for the next week, and then sit back and do nothing to help him.

    He’s going to try to pin his losses on her anyway, but it’s better not give any him ammunition up front.

    I love how Gov. Rendell is diplomatically removing his name from the VP list! I’d hate to have to vote against him.

  9. like in “chance in hell”?

  10. Passed on to me as “inside” information. The comment that associated my email was “May not be accurate, but sounds credible.” I don’t understand the DNC’s rationale if it is worth losing the Presidency to garner new voters and now the Obama campaign realizes it needs Hillary supporters. I doubt the new voters equal those who are jumping ship.

    Email text follows:

    Okay, so now that Hillary has issued a statement to the press, I’ll elaborate on what I know:

    Basically, on Tuesday Hillary spent the day at home calling superdelegates. In doing so, she discovered that Obama supporters, Uncommitted supers and a few of her supporters had essentially made a pact with the DNC that they would not support Hillary at the convention. She was essentially told that she needed to get out of the race asap. Someone told the press that she was going to get out last night, but Hillary didn’t want to exit the race when someone else told her to do it (the media) and instead, decided she would exit on her own time, under her conditions. I think it was her last opportunity to actually call her own shots versus having the DNC, party officials and media do it. In fact, during the meeting today, she joked that she had realized that she wanted to be a person who “talked for a living”, as you always had work and the things you said didn’t even have to be true.

    Anyway, apparently, the idea that Obama isn’t going to be able to win the nomination came up while talking to the DNC/supers and the response she received was that Obama brought in a lot of new Democratic voters (and ultimately, a lot of new Democratic money) and thus, while the party might lose the election in the short term (the presidential election, that is), the long term would be good, as the party would have lots of new voters and money.

    The belief was that even though Obama might not be able to win the presidency, the fact that he had “all these new voters” would help to ensure that the party won the congressional and senatorial seats in play in November. I asked if Hillary had read the comments posted by her supporters and was told that she did and that if she felt she could win the election (garner the superdelegate support at the convention), she would have stayed in the race. However , the DNC and supers made it very clear to her that they would not support her and that she needed to get out.

    The airwaves today were full of Obama supporters demonizing Hillary for not dropping out of the race last night. They went on and on about how selfish she is and how “dare she strong arm for the VP position”. I was told that she has never once asked for the VP spot ,AND that she hasn’t been talking to the Obama campaign at all about what to do next. She came to her decision on her own, but did indicate that she would use some of her delegate support to get the healthcare plan on the Obama platform.

    In typical Obama fashion, he allowed the media to go on and on for the last two weeks about how Hillary is staying in the race so she can be the VP. Today that rhetoric reached a ridiculous level and the hate directed at her was completely over the top. Again, no statement from Obama regarding the truth: That she had NOT asked for the VP spot. (In fact, from what I understand, Hillary has no obvious desire to be a part of the Obama campaign whatsoever.

    This seems good, as right now, people love her and she can exit this looking like the queen that she is. If she goes with Obama, then the media will say that they were right all along-that Hillary stayed in this after March because she wanted the VP spot…his supporters will also go crazy with that logic, as they have no idea that she stayed in for us and because she should have been able to win had the supers and DNC not been in Obama’s pocket.)

    Regardless, around 6:30, the media began reporting that Hillary would concede on Friday. Apparently, she hadn’t reported this to the media and they were again frustrated with the media’s attempt to strong arm her into conceding on Friday. Despite the fact that she was going to concede, she wanted it on her own terms. Thus, she decided to set a date to concede, but scheduled it for Saturday-one last opportunity to stick it t o the media (we love Hillary for that).

    About one hour after that, Obama issued a statement admitting that Hillary did not negotiate anything before indicating she would concede. Once again, he believed it would make him look good to appear “gracious”, but clearly fails to realize that her supporters are not the idiots that he and his supporters think we are.

    It seems that today, his supporters are starting to figure out that they will need her supporters to win the election (though it’s too little, too late in my opinion…) and are attempting to opportunistically seize upon the moment. Take this very unifying and non-condescending article in which an Obama supporter attempts to explain why the morons, also known as Hillary’s supporters, should will vote Obama…unless they really are the uneducated, self centered idiots that he clearly thinks they are:

    The last statement of the article speaks volumes:

    I guess I’m (as an Obama supporter )not self centered enough to throw my daughters chance at a happy life away by throwing a vote McCain’s way. (like those selfish Hilary supporters) I (unlike Hillary’s supporters) have this petty little thing called a conscience. It forces me to make decisions while viewing the consequences to everyone (hmm….how very giving and kind of you…wish Hillary’s supporters could be a little more like that).

  11. heh, Cate, this is not TL. Welcome.

  12. Don’t scare me! From the Onion Network:

    Diebold Accidentally Leaks Results Of 2008 Election Early

  13. Buh bye, S. I myself prefer Milou.

  14. Did a snowball just melt away???

  15. CB, that’s a shame if true. Sounds true enough. If she doesn’t outright concede there may be screaming. *eyeroll*

    It’s a damn shame.

    I think we shoud leak the story to Dobbs and Hannity. That way they can tell America that the Dems knowingly picked the candidate that can’t win for money.

  16. UpstateNY — Tintin fan?

  17. Too bad…I see my comment was deleted also….hmmm. But, thanks Upstate for the welcome – .

  18. Hi, Cate!

    The Democrats are such cowards.

  19. I, too, have a conscience and it won’t allow me to vote for someone who has cheated his way to the nomination, or allowed it to happen and remained silent.
    Five months is a long time and I live in Ohio. I’ll rely on the advice of the smarties on this site in November.
    This was the year we were supposed to coast into the White House, remember?
    Has Obama been paid to wreck the Democratic Party or is he a Corporate/ Wall Street stooge?

  20. ghost that WAS funny!!!

    hlr: of course. Son and I love it.

    Cate: anytime.

  21. I Demand That You Unify!

    (stamping foot)

  22. Moving my post up here:

    Halperin says GOP “wiseguys and gals” think McCain only has a 30% chance against Obama:


    Politico says “McCain mulls blowout” before Obama won the delegates.


    Which one is right? Are they just trying to build up the underdog role like when McCain was dead in the water last year?

    Looking at the map, I would say McCain has a slight edge right now before the right wing attacks. Obama basically has a Kerry map plus perhaps Iowa and New Mexico. New Hampshire moves to McCain and he just needs to lock up Virginia and Colorado (Colorado would probably be easier and in Virginia, remember, if it wasn’t for his macaca moment, Allen would have won and even then Webb barely won). Then the battle moves to the Midwest and they’ll duke it out in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Ohio. There’s a chance Pennsylvania would move to McCain if the right wing can do a potent attack.

  23. WS — they are saying that due to $$$$ advantage.

  24. Nancy: heh.

  25. To me “Unify” sounds like a blender setting. You know like mix, chop, grind, puree etc.

  26. And I’m supposed to feel guilty about brushing off *this* party come November? LOL!

  27. I’m serious guys. If it’s even half true. Leak it and make the party look like the petty opportunists they are. They know Hill’s electable but they don’t care. It’s money they care about. The average American should know.

    I’d go so far as to send it to Rush Limbaugh and friends. Ann Coulter would certainly appreciate it.

  28. Welcome, Cate! Sorry, we dispatch trollballs around here without much ceremony.

  29. Money does have diminishing returns as Obama found out battling Hillary in the swing states and Romney found out during his run. McCain does need money and we’ll find out what their quarterly totals are. Is this the first time, a Democrat will win the money race against a Republican?

    I forgot to add that New Jersey has a chance of going red if McCain can incite a tax revolt there.

  30. CB: So the DNC thinks the new voters and money will more than offset the Hillary voters and money that are leaving? His donor list is more important than integrity, this country and its people?

    They think the new voters and money will elect more dems down-ticket? Give me a list of the Obama supporters in Ohio. I want to know who to vote against.

    Me thinks they will be sorry!!!

  31. Arabella Trefoil, on June 5th, 2008 at 9:32 pm Said:
    To me “Unify” sounds like a blender setting. You know like mix, chop, grind, puree etc.

    HA!!! That made me laugh, seriously, like we were saying back in the other thread, you can’t herd a bunch of angry neck-snapping felines. We are not cute and coy Angoras or Calicos.

    We’re PUMAs. We’re bringing Democracy back to the Democratic party by taking the polluter of Democracy, aka Unity Pony 0Bambi, down.

    Had he won this fair & square, I would have voted for him. But he didn’t. So I don’t have to vote for him.

    And CB, Riverdaughter’s been saying that for months. It was more important to them to win the nomination but not the election. I swear, I do not regret for a second being a PUMA after this fiasco.

    HIllary, if you decide to suspend, DON’T ACCCEPT THE VP SPOT! Let them sink the Titanic all on their own.

  32. Well now that I have a clearer picture of what was going on I guess I will just hang my head and get onboard that Obama express heading out into the Valley of Disaster (one of the extra 7 states). What a selfish person is our Hillary! Standing in the way of the newly christened Christ figure. She refused to obey.

    If this is an accurate picture I ask anyone here if they have any residue of loyalty to a party that would inflict this on another human being?

  33. UpstateNY — which are your favorites? For me it’d have to be Prisoners of the Sun and Tintin in Tibet.

  34. The party reminds me of the privileged passengers sailing towards their final destination on the unsinkable Titanic.

    I’m an iceberg.

  35. CB, on June 5th, 2008 at 9:21 pm –

    Thanks for the insight into what we all suspected – that the DNC & superdelegates threw Hillary under the bus. I feel even better about my response earlier today to an invitation from the Hillary campaign to attend the Saturday event where Hillary would express her congratulations and support to Obama. Here’s what I wrote:

    Dear ___________:

    Thanks to all of you and Sen. Hillary Clinton for your extraordinary efforts throughout the primaries. I have been so proud of Sen. Clinton and her campaign. She has inspired me with every speech and is a true hero. Without a doubt, Sen. Clinton deserves the Democratic nomination. It is a tragedy, and our loss, that so many forces – including our own Democratic Party – actively worked against her.

    It is with regret and sadness that I must decline your invitation to join Sen. Clinton this Saturday. Were it solely to honor her, I would attend. However, I do not wish to congratulate Sen. Obama or support him. It pains me to say this as I am a lifelong Democrat. But unless Sen. Clinton is at the top of the Democratic ticket, I (and many other lifelong Democrats) will actively work for the defeat of Sen. Obama and the Democratic party come fall. To support him would be to condone the disgraceful actions of the Democratic party elite (the DNC) and the race-baiting, misogyny and divisiveness of the Obama campaign. At this point, I no longer recognize the Democratic party – it has abandoned so many core ideals in favor of throwing Sen. Clinton “under the bus”. That is unacceptable.

    For now, I will remain a Democrat; however, I will be voting for Sen. John McCain if the Democratic party fails to nominate Sen. Clinton in August. I do not respect Sen. Obama; I respect Sen. McCain, even though I disagree with him on a number of issues. I cannot and will not vote for someone for whom I have no respect, especially someone who treated Sen. Clinton with such disdain. Sen. Obama chose to put his own ambitions ahead of the Democratic party by dividing it and undermining Sen. Clinton at every turn. I cannot and will not condone his behavior or the actions of the DNC and superdelegates.

    So, it is with great sadness that I send my regrets. I hope to one day meet Sen. Clinton in person, but I will not attend an event to congratulate and support Sen. Obama.

    Thanks again for all your extraordinary efforts. May God bless all of you.

    Wishing you all the best,

  36. cats, I agree with your name, yet they deny the vote to mine.

  37. I forgot to add that you can have all the money in the world, but people won’t vote for you if they don’t like you. I think the Republican strategy is to drive up his negatives and attack his character/connections.

    Larry Johnson said today his sources are saying the Repubcs are holding the MO tape for fall. I do wonder if all the chatter in the internet as well as reportedly in the press and the campaigns is just a really good whisper campaign or they do really have it.

  38. From NoQuarter:

    By SusanUnPC on June 5, 2008 at 7:00 PM in DNC, Hillary Clinton, Maggie Williams, Obamedia
    Clintondems.com isn’t just some site by a bunch of Hillary supporters. It is founded by Maggie Williams, Hillary’s indefatigable campaign manager. From the site:

    The goal of this website is to create a place where Democrats that feel the DNC and media have acted in bad faith towards the American people can gather to organize, share insights and have their voices be heard. The Superdelates are watching…make sure they hear you too!


    And sign up.


    800K hits so far!!!!

    Rico darling, Moet Chandon & strawberries for everybody!

  40. CB said : “The belief was that even though Obama might not be able to win the presidency, the fact that he had “all these new voters” would help to ensure that the party won the congressional and senatorial seats in play in November. ”

    So they think the rabid young voters that signed up to vote for the Messiah are going to continue to contribute if he loses?! And they will contribute to other candidates? HAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHA

    So I think we need to target a handful of BO SD’s that are up for re-election in November and work for their opponent.

  41. The betrayal is endless. and the pressure must be intense. I expect more of the same in the days to come.
    They are trying to protect their own political careers. What they don’t seem to get is they will lose our votes in the Fall. They shit on their most reliable voters. For what, an empty suit? How obtuse can they be? They are on a suicide mission and Hillary has to toe the party line and watch. She doesn’t what to lose her place in the party and not be able to continue fighting for us. Although, I’m not so sure the Dems are going to let her, because she defied them and their calls to quit. It’s going to be an interesting summer, with all the Obama skeletons waiting to pop out of the closet, and I will relish every moment.

  42. Livetotell — don’t blame you, and while I RSVP’d, the chances of my going are quite low — I think they will follow up w/ fundraising for BO/DNC.

    Did you get your invite from Mid-Atlantic Finance like I did?

  43. Hi Everyone,

    I got home about 2-1/2 hours ago and have been reading all the posts and comments. Can’t believe it took me so long. Welcome to all the new people.

    Cate, I almost replied to you at TL the other day to suggest you could come here. You had made a comment about having to leave TL. I didn’t know if it might be frowned upon there for me to be inviting people to another blog. I’m glad to see you. I don’t know what comment was deleted, but please stay.

    Welcome to all the new commenters! There really are a lot of us who feel the same way, aren’t there. I hear it from other people who aren’t on the blogs too.

  44. Pat: If this is an accurate picture I ask anyone here if they have any residue of loyalty to a party that would inflict this on another human being?

    (shaking head sideways)

  45. Joe: Clintondems.com isn’t just some site by a bunch of Hillary supporters. It is founded by Maggie Williams, Hillary’s indefatigable campaign manager.


  46. Guys, I don’t think this is going to have the desired effect on most Americans. They had to suffer through the anti-Hillary diatribe from the media and it had very little effect. She still blew Obama out of the water as recently as Sunday in Puerto Rico.
    No one I have spoken to is fooled by all of the superdelegate endorsement switching. They don’t want Obama and they’re mad as hell at the party. It’s especially maddening to my foreign born colleagues. They are completely disillusioned by this turn of events.

  47. hlr:

    For me “T in Tibet” is very, VERY special.

    You see, I introduced my son to this series with this book (one of his special interests is mythological creatures). It also got him started with his reading. Wife does not like comics but loves cartoons.

    We have the whole collection (books and animated series). We are kind of geeky in my family.

    Live long and prosper.

  48. So no one’s on board with telling people that the Dem party is selling out now instead of waiting until November to do it? Now it’s reparable, in November the country is fubared again.

  49. RD, she blew him out of the water as recently as Tuesday the last day of the primaries.

  50. CB,

    Thank you for sharing your information. I have been saying for months than I think the DNC is trying to lose this election. How cynical can they be? It disgusting.

    What about all the people who are really going to suffer if the Republicans stay in control? What about the Constitution? What about torture and secret prisons? What about the executive powers that Bush has gotten? Now we know. They really don’t care about ordinary Americans. They don’t care about Democratic values at all. They are are just like the Republicans. All they care about is grabbing more power and money for themselves.

  51. hlr –

    I received my invitation to the Saturday event from Hillary fundraisers from her Arlington, VA campaign headquarters (I’m in the DC metro area).

  52. WS,

    The big Zero was asked about the tape today by a McClatchy reporter.

    He was flumoxed that anyone would say such a thing and basically said, “Bring it on.”

    He said, “I can’t believe you asked about it.”

    Sounded typically Zero intimidation.

  53. I posted this on another thread and hope it’s ok to post it here as well:

    I want to share something with y’all – I have a full time job but also work part time as a realtor. We constantly have to take continuing education courses to keep our real estate licenses current. Some agents space out their classes but I procrastinated and ended up taking most of this week off my main job to get all my credits. my class this morning was on fair housing. I live in Birmingham, Alabama so it’s a real important issue here (it is anywhere but we have a reputation to live down). The class was about divided equally between black and white agents and the discussion was outstanding – I’ve only lived in Alabama for a few years but I’ve been impressed by how openly people can discuss racial issues, both past and present.

    Anyway, the instructor likes to use examples from both his real estate career and from current events. We were discussing the importance of words and “dismissive speech”, saying things that make people feel like they aren’t important. He said he had a good example from current events and……….I thought it would be a racial issue but it was actually a sexist issue…….

    the example was “sweetie”!!! Obama’s dismissive speech to a female reporter. He said if any of us had acted like that as a realtor, our license would be on the line. I got no feel at all for what his politics might be, he just said it was shocking that a politician, particularly one wanting to be president, would use that kind of speech.


  54. RD: Exactly. Most of the folk (esp. women) I’ve spoken to about this primary are just frustrated and confused as to how, with all Hillary’s sizable wins, she’s being dismissed and so blatantly disrespected. They don’t get it and they don’t like it. And this “happy unity” routine won’t make them forget.

  55. I think they just put up Maggie William’s email there. I don’t think Maggie running clintondems.com.

  56. RD: “It’s especially maddening to my foreign born colleagues.”

    Ya think?

  57. bb: I have something to relate to you. I told you that I had dowloaded your beautiful tribute to Hillary a few days ago. My daughter in law came into my computer and did a few graphic changes, downloaded it, went and bought a frame and presented it to me. I was so moved and touched by her kindness that I had to tell you. That was why I was looking for you earlier today. It is beautiful and is sitting here by my computer. You created something that will live on for a very long time. I thought you would be pleased to know this. My daughter in law is a special person because she knows how much Hillary means to me. Thanks again.

  58. Thanks Arabella and Upstate!

  59. I have a lot of respect for Representatives Hastings, Meek, Browne and Wasserman-Schultz and know that there has to be something driving their hop aboard the train to nowhere. I assume it is a combination of threats, actual named opposition and the desire for Florida to have a say in the general election. Florida will, of course, have a say and it will be, once again, no to the Democrats. Those four are very strong people and have really fought for us in the past. I am disappointed but not surprised because this new DNC is willing to lose to make its point. No, I don’t know what the point is either but, surely, something is driving them. Oh, never mind.

  60. Howdy, y’all. Found your link via TM. Getting a little strange over there, in the aftermath. So, I’ve been lurking here this evening. Recognize quite a few names from TM. I posted there under another pseudonym. The Confluence offers a different angle.

  61. Pat, your daughter in law sounds like a wonderul person. how fortunate you (and your son) are 🙂

  62. Livetotell — sounds about right. btw are you on the MD or VA side?

  63. Terrific letter, Livetotell.
    Hillary is a very loyal Democrat (as I have been) and she has her husband’s legacy to protect-she will.
    I’m under no such constraint.
    Watching my own Party spit on the most successful political couple since the Roosevelts has been surreal.
    It’s as if the Republicans decided to purge the Reagans!
    But they wouldn’t would, they? They’re not that stupid, unfortunately. Just like they were smart enough to nominate McCain, damnit.

  64. kiki: Were you online when bb did the piece? Had us all bawling like banshees. Some of us had to get away for awhile that day for composure. Any, yes Katie is a great girl. It was one of the nicest gifts I will ever receive because of her genuine thoughtfulness. And yes, she loves Hillary too.

  65. Pat,

    Wow! I’m so touched. Thank you so much. You know I wrote that spontaneously, because I was so upset–really brokenhearted, knowing that Hillary was being pushed out and treated so disrespectfully. It really just poured out of me.

    I will never forgive the Democrats who did this to her or the ones who didn’t speak up in her defense. You daughter-in-law sounds so nice. She’s lucky to have such a nice mother-in-law too. You made me cry again (sniff).

  66. hlr

    Joe: Clintondems.com isn’t just some site by a bunch of Hillary supporters. It is founded by Maggie Williams, Hillary’s indefatigable campaign manager.


    hlr, it’s NOT her site. I don’t have any proof. Just read the Petition. There is no way Maggie Williams has anything to do with it.

    I signed up for an account before I realized — now I wish I could undo it….

  67. Upstate: I work with a lot of Chinese and Indian foreign borns. They apply for citizenship as soon as they can and have a great passion for politics.
    They are just dumbfounded by this. They thought she was far and away the best candidate there is. And the vote manipulation is just corrupt. They ask me how such a thing could happen here? I was really surprised when so many of them told me they wouldn’t be voting for Obama. I don’t know if they are going to vote for McCain but experience counts for these people. It could be a big problem in NJ. There are a lot of “creative class” who went for Clinton and aren’t taking this very well. Nothing gets by these people. They’re geeks and they know how to read a spreadsheet and plot graphs and analyze data.

  68. bb: XX00

  69. Tom Watson just sold out to Obama with the same old chant of “unity”. Most of the posters are furious and echoing our sentiments. Could there be a groundswell building out there?

  70. Pat,

    Hugs back to you. Is it cold where you are? I’m freezing here. I had to turn on my heat–in June! I can’t believe it. My mom said it was in the 90s in Indiana today. I’m hoping their weather gets here soon.

  71. According to Fox, second hand from ma cuz I don’t watch, Hillary and Barack are meeting tonight.

  72. bb: : It is very damp. But they are predicting a real heat wave this weekend. Glad I got that a/c in a couple of weeks ago. Am babysitting two grandchildren this weekend and the heat kills me. Had to shut the windows tonight.

  73. Snowball,

    We don’t call each other names here. None of us is a “fanatic.” We’re intelligent, well-informed people who have been wronged by our party.

  74. RD: I remember you mentioning that in one of your posts (in a previous encarnation of this site, it seems now).

    I am glad to hear that. Sometimes, I fear that since I was not born here either, and lack a lot of the shared American experience, others may not alwasy welcome my opinion on politics.

    Of course that has not been the case at the Confluence but I am encouraged to hear that foreign borns are sharing their perspectives with you in real time.

  75. 28,316 page views so far today.

  76. Hillary and Obama are meeting right now at an undisclosed location in Washington, DC.

  77. That email needs to get to Greta. She will talk about it.

    RD, I am glad you help us keep focused on what is really happening. Like you said this morning, it is haka. Don’t be fooled. I have so many emotions and thoughts pent up inside right now, I don’t know what to do. I am furious at this injustice. I can only imagine what Hillary is thinking right now. I am glad she is saying no way to the VP. That would be an unmitigated disaster for her. She will come out of this on top in the end. Especially if we take her lead and stick with her.

    I am going out to buy myself some PUMA sneakers this weekend and am going to donate to PUMA, buy t-shirts and whatever else is available and most of all remain a defiant Hillary supporter to the “bitter” end damn it.

  78. Pat and BB, yeah, I read it at work. and cried, honestly.

    blamed it on allergies 🙂

    I don’t get as much time here as I’d like, but I do take comfort in the fact that y’all are here. I don’t think I could adequately express how comforting that is.

  79. CB, thanks for posting the whole email from the yahoo group. I am not sure who the source of the information is, but it obviously sounds credible to me too. And my reaction is that if they know they may very well lose in November and they don’t especially care, then John McCain cannot possibly be that bad. All around we hear how dare you sit out, how dare you vote for McCain? What about your uterus? Well, clearly the Democrats aren’t that worried about my uterus since they know McCain is likely to win against Obama and they don’t especially care, so I say whatever too.

    Take your money corrupt DNC and go to hell. This is not the party I signed up for.

    And to my next question, what do you guys believe are Obama’s chances of winning in November? I am truly not sure who I think will be worse between the two, but yesterday when I thought about Obama actually winning I was filled with a sense of panic. But I am not sure if that was due to anger, or because I instinctively feel he would be that much worse than even McCain…

  80. katiebird
    I signed the clintondems petition weeks ago, actually I was probably # 25 or so. What do you think is wrong with that? The site has been pro clinton from the start. Anyway, just wondering.

  81. Pat: I wonder if we can have Tom Watson’s site removed from the blogroll.

  82. All I can say, is say no to VP.

  83. Regency,

    My mom told me that when I was talking to her about 30 mins. ago. She still watches PBS news and CNN. I guess Hillary and BO are meeting tonight. I told my mom, I hope Hillary slaps BO across the face. I know that was mean-sprited of me. Of course Hillary will be gracious to him, although he doesn’t deserve it. He’ll probably throw his head back and look down his nose at her.

  84. ronk – your earlier post was awesome. This place is going to thrive now. RD, aren’t you glad you left the Big Orange Cheeto?

  85. BB: is S still around? Doesn’t s/he have any friends?

  86. Regency, I say no to VP, too.

  87. Just a little reminder to the Democratic “leadership”: Ralph Nader, who was really a fringe candidate compared to Hillary Clinton, the most popular Democratic candidate ever, received 97,488 votes in FL.
    Those were mostly Democrats who didn’t want to vote for candidate Gore.

    Had Gore picked up just 0.6% of Nader’s votes in FL, he would be ending his 2nd term now.

    You guys really want to challenge us?

  88. I think she’s negotiating for UHC. That’s her issue. Without it, I think she’ll be a lot less enthusiastic about sticking the country with this guy.

  89. Regarding Alcee: How stupid do they think we are? I mean REALLY. Are they thinking, if we show that the party is fine, that means the voters will forget all the nastiness toward Clinton?

    OMG, please, someone fire Howard Dean. This minute, do it NOW. They are the most corrupt bunch I’ve ever seen.

  90. Someone on TL mentioned that Tweety was saying that Sebelius is being floated for VP. Anyone hear this?

  91. MABlue. Thank you, thank you, thank you. You put that very clearly.

  92. Riverdaughter, I am Indian and my immigrant family is full of staunch Hillary supporters who will never even consider voting for Obama – he is just not on their radar screen. It’s always been Hillary or McCain.

    But I was just in NJ this past weekend visiting family friends (also Indian) and I was shocked at how taken in they were by the MSM. Two of them (creative class recently immigrated men) were spewing media talking points about how “You can’t take this away from Obama, I don’t want a dynasty.” We got into a very heated discussion and I was almost shaking by the end when they were excusing the sexism. I was disappointed, especially since I found Sen. Obama’s D from Punjab memo to be incredibly nativist and offensive, but I am happy to learn from you that others of my kind have not been so taken in =)

  93. Between losing Hillary and them floating Sebelius, I’d much rather be a Republican right now. yeah, I’m voting for McCain. Before I was just going to abstain, but fuck them and their friends.

    We’re all screwed anyway.

  94. Theresa: This blog belongs to Riverdaughter. I am merely a visiter here.

  95. MABlue,

    Here, Here

  96. cloudy, yes, I’ve heard about Sebelius from several sources.

  97. JJ,

    Obama has no chance in November. None. If he agrees to those town meetings with McCain, his candidacy will be dead as a doornail before he even gets the nomination officially. What experience does he have compared to McCain? He hasn’t served in the armed forces, he knows nothing about the military or foreign affairs. He makes the same kinds of dopey mistakes Bush does when he doesn’t have a teleprompter in front of him. When he speaks extemporaneously, He stutters and stumbles and speaks in platitudes. He is a terrible candidate, and anyone who isn’t in the cult will see it. It’s obvious from the primaries that the more people get to see and hear him, the less they like him.

  98. hi guys.. I used to blog at taylor’s..but she’s drunk the kool-aid.. can I blog here?

    is this is compltely pro-hillary site? no trolls?

    I’m voting mccain if that arrogant fool gets the nom in august!!

  99. Seriously Teresa. Actually, it just makes me more mad to see Hillary’s supers abandoning ship on marching orders from the DNC (the NY delegation, Bayh, etc, who else that I haven’t heard about?) before giving her the opportunity to give her suspension speech. It is utterly disrespectful and it makes me feel EVEN MORE like I am screaming my head off and no one is listening. There is this huge elephant in the room of angry supporters who don’t give a crap what happens to the party and the DNC wants to play pretend unity.

  100. so what about Hillary replacing Howard Dean? he has to go. I could see her there. might actually be a nicer life for her than el presidente.

  101. Howard Dean’s major policy change for the DNC email arrived and
    I wrote an essay on why I was unsubscribing. The chorus line was
    “Did I say he is unqualified?” I mentioned the Obama campaign’s trashing of the Clintons as racists and the rampant sexism.

    Last bit:

    The American people are not dumb. In spite of Obama’s outspending Clinton 3-to-1, and the media’s making her a non-person, she still won the popular vote. Imagine if we had a real Fourth Estate, one that cared about our country instead of accepting ad money from drug companies (to sell prescription drugs, which should be outlawed) and ads for Obama’s “clean coal” and General Electric’s NBC/MSNBC, which wants to have Obama push nuclear power plants for their bottom line. General Electric thinks that Obama is so trustworthy that people will fall for his sell. This is the man who voted for Cheney’s energy bill written by lobbyists behind closed doors.

    The DNC is a fraud. Obama is a fraud. May your faction of the Democratic Party go down in flames. Voting McCain will help ensure this happens (and I’ve never voted Republican in my life). I hate what you have done to the Party and to our country.
    Not one cent ever for the DNC. Obama was selected not elected.

  102. tim_d, is that you from TM’s?

  103. Hi tim, oh yes, we get trolls but we cast magic spells and puff…..Welcome.

  104. This is gonna sound selfish but a nicer life for Hillary as chairman is still a shitty life for me.

    I’m waiting for her to make things easier. She can’t do that if she isn’t President.

    What is wrong with these people!?!

  105. tim_d: Howdy. I also transferred from Taylor’s just this evening. Getting a little strange there in the Comments section. But Taylor is still a good source for news, regardless of her stance at the moment.

  106. abycat, kiki…

    I remember you guys from taylors!!!

    I stopped going there 2 days ago.. never looked back!

  107. oh, and tim.. we try not to call people fools (most of the time) heh. Welcome again.

  108. This is a horrible night to watch Lion King.



  109. Regency, yeah, I agree. I’m grasping for alternatives here. sorry

  110. Well, you know, any woman will do just fine. (/SNARK) ((((SMDH))))

  111. I’ve been hearing that Richardson will be the VP candidate. Can you imagine? He was the absolute worst candidate I’ve ever seen. I don’t think Obama is going to pick a woman. He needs someone with some kind of experience and foreign policy/military creds. But, who knows? He’s alienated more than half of the Dem base. So why not pick a dud for VP? I wonder if he knows they don’t expect him to win?

  112. Welcome tim_d! TM has sold out!

  113. tim_d – you have found a very friendly place here. Welcome to our new home.

  114. The RNC isn’t wasting time painting Obama as a neophyte.

  115. Joseph Cannon has a post up linking Cynthina McKinney to Farrakhan and Farrakhan to the Rev Moon. Is this what we are looking at in an Obama win? Farrakhan is quoted as taking credit for the murder of Malcolm X. Good God Almighty! He will probably be asked to swear in Obama come January!

  116. Well right now, the polling says its tied or in the margin of error (Gallup says 45-45) I would have to say for a Democratic year, that should be higher for the Dem which might show Obama’s weakness or McCain’s GE strength or a little bit of both.

    We’ll have to find out how well Obama can weather the right wing attack machine because judging from history, the Republicans know how to fight dirty and win (except against the Clintons). They certainly have a lot of material to use.

    Obama’s advantage is with money and the benefits of a Democratic year. I wonder who the media will love more, Obama or McCain. My guess is with McCain once they throw mud at Obama.

  117. Did ya’ll see Obama is meeting her at her house?

  118. That they did this for the money certainly makes sense out of a lot of cryptic remarks from insiders. I DO think it should be revealed BEFORE the convention that this is the DNC’s motive. What they COMPLETELY overlook is that the disappointed Obama-fans—the groundswell of new voters they’re drooling over—are going to be quite FED UP with the process that leads B.O. to fail to win. They’re not going to hang around and remain engaged and interested in continuing to support the Dems (as the DNC ignorantly assumes). If anything, they’ll decide, once and for all, that they were right before they got involved—politics is a big waste of time, and it’s utterly futile to think otherwise. I say we should produce as much evidence as possible of the whorish behavior of the DNC!

  119. Yeah, Joan, we saw it.

  120. Joan, I’ve heard, I wonder what is going on.

  121. Don’t like it one bit!

  122. Wow. These guys don’t understand women do they?

  123. Yes, Please Obama, pick Sebelius. No one, and I mean NO ONE will see the cynicsm in that. All the little women will surely fall in line if we just put some woman, any woman, on the ticket. Yep, right, I am all over it. Sign me up.

  124. Ha! Greta reporting that Rev. Wright is now going to stay on at Trinity. Well, I guess all the dust has settled, huh? Somebody forgot to tell the RNC, however…

  125. thanks guys,
    I just bookmarked this page.. I usually blog now at:


    but I will be coming here are well

    thank you riverdaughter.. I will always support hillary and I cannot in good conscience very vote for someone who has 143 days of experience in the senate before running for president.. I fear for my family.. hillary or then mccain

  126. Hillary’s been backed into a corner. She’s done what she could and we haven’t done anything else.

    I’m sick of this bullshit actually. Never again.

  127. Men Are From Venus. Women Are From Mars.

  128. So I need some feedback here – I’ve been a registered Dem for 32 years, my mom for over 50 years. we are both planning on leaving the party – I called my state (CA) Democratic Party office yesterday to find out what I need to do – they told me to get a voter registration form from the post office and just re-register.

    The dilemma – leave now, and call the DNC to notify them. This would rack up another member jumping ship. OR Wait till after November, so I can vote for McCain as a Democrat and hopefully those numbers will be reported in the media.

    Feedback? I want to make the biggest impact one lil’ voter can make.

  129. “Judas” Richardson would be appropriate for someone of Obama’s
    character. But I bet Obama has promised everyone something.

  130. With regards to my earlier post of Clintondemocrats.com, I just pasted what SusanUnPC from NoQuarter wrote. She has now posted a correction that reads:

    “Correction: I was told by a Clinton volunteer, who should know, that the site is run by Maggie Williams; it is not. It is a pro-Hillary site”

  131. She let him into her house! Dang, the pressure from the top must be intense! Party unity and all that bull.

  132. Regency, on June 5th, 2008 at 10:21 pm Said:
    This is a horrible night to watch Lion King.



    I disagree, Hillary is not Mufasa, she is definitely Simba. She’ll be back to Pride Rock.

  133. We knew it would get bad. She’s got the Clinton legacy to think about.

    Just don’t take VP, Hillary. Just don’t. Let him fail alone.

    Please don’t make me vote against you.

  134. RNC ad on Obama…using mostly Bill and Hillary’s words against him, also one line from Edwards, one line from Biden.

    I hate that they are making HRC a pawn in this, but everything that is said is true…

  135. LauraInCali,

    I don’t actually have a problem with the petition itself. I wouldn’t word it that way if I was composing it. But, it’s ok.

    What scared me is that the site was presented (by SusanUnPC who is a long-time blogging friend) as something created by Maggie Williams, Hillary’s campaign manager.

    But, that can’t be true. Hillary’s campaign manager wouldn’t have written that petition. If she did, it would be headline news.

    So I was freaked out by the misrepresentation (and certain things about the security of the site) and that’s why I”d rather not be involved.

  136. HRC is meeting Obama at Diane Feinstein’s house. as per Fox News.. Greta von Sustern

  137. UpstateNY: I fear that since I was not born here either, and lack a lot of the shared American experience, others may not alwasy welcome my opinion on politics.

    No worries, I was born overseas.

  138. I don’t think the clinton legacy will be tarnished.. those who hate him.. will always hate him…

    those who love him, like us.. will always love him..

    nothing will change…

  139. LAMusing: I’m staying Dem for the time being (have been for 36 years), but reserving my options. I do like my Dem governor and congressman; they’ve both done great jobs.

  140. LAM, leave now. It feels so good. Screw them. Let’s open up the veins and watch the Democrats bleed out.

  141. UpstateNY,

    Who is S? I’ve been out all day. Is that one of our lovely sweeties? I did see someone named Sandy lecturing everyone very pompously on another thread.

    BTW, I can’t imagine anyone not wanting to hear your political views. You are always charming, witty, and erudite.

  142. God, I hope bill is home in case he crosses over from condescending to threatening.

  143. Sibelius?


  144. katiebird,
    Thanks, they have my info too!

  145. speaking of $…I’ve been meaning to ask: what ever happened to all the fuss of B.O. reneging on his agreement to take public funding for the G.E.? Has that all disappeared? Anyone know?

  146. Pssh, Bill would’ve whacked him with a wagging finger. Hope they brought the SS.

  147. haven’t you heard, Barack has no scandals at all? He is a clean and pure as the day he was born.

    But they Clintons, they must be vetted.

    I officially can’t stand that guy.

  148. CB, on June 5th, 2008 at 10:27 pm Said:
    “Judas” Richardson would be appropriate for someone of Obama’s
    character. But I bet Obama has promised everyone something.

    As the mighty Lambert says, “Everybody gets a Unity Pony! Ponies for Everybody!”

  149. UpstateNY,

    I was born in Fargo, ND. That’s practically another country, LOL! Lots of my ancestors came down from Canada into ND, MN, ME, and MA. They were Scots, French Canadians, and Irish. I think my people are those nasty working folks that the DNC is trying to get rid of.

  150. We must flood all the blogs with just this:


    I am going everywhere and typing those 4 letters. That’s all we need. So Conflucians – here is the movement we can be part of….go to all the blogs and type “P.U.M.A.”

    That’s it. It will drive them effing crazy.

  151. …oh by the way, all on CNN were quite charmed with the way B.O. patted Michelle’s arse just before his victory speech! saw it played 2x. Oy!

  152. Hmm…Sebelius? What dumbos if that is what they are going to do.

    A friend of mine who knows people in high places got a call from a top Obama fundraiser last week (he knows this guy personally). When he said he wasn’t interested because Hillary was still in it, he tried to push the kool-aid and tried to tell him he should get on the bandwagon before it is too late and my friend told him he didn’t think it was worth it since he didn’t think O could win in Nov. and the fundraiser said they were working on that by trying to make Hillary or Rendell the VP. I don’t know how accurate this information is, or if either of the two would even take it, but I know for sure this fund raiser has the ear of top people in O’s campaign.

  153. Hatsepsut1988: The same thing that’s happened to any fuss of BO about anything… Poof! It dissolves in the Kool-Aid tank!

  154. I thought the Wolfson press release today was saying she’s not interested in VP-she still wants to be Prez. But now after readomg that DNC Super-D collusion-that can’t be it. So now I’m sad again. Please don’t be his VP, Hillary!!!! You’ve suffered enough abuse.

  155. Hat, NO, he patted her ass on national television????

  156. I hope Hillary sent Bill out for the night. He might be tempted to deck Barry if he saw him up close.

  157. Yep, the pressure is all on Hillary to put Humpty Dumpty back together again. Except that she did not push him off the wall. It is not her job to win this for BO. Unbelievable. I don’t want her anywhere a possible position in his (not going to happen) administration. She would be better in the Senate. A cabinet position would be an insult. And as we saw in the Bush administration, cabinet secretaries are expendable. They have a funny way of getting pushed out so they can spend more time with their families.

  158. Emily’s List founder Ellen Malcolm helped Sebelius get elected. I heard
    that Ellen is disappointed by the women who got help from her group of
    women but went for the unqualified male who has no record of helping women (and allowed a sexist campaign to be run because getting the
    nomination was all that Obama was about). I doubt he has a clue as
    to what his call is service might be (other than being a “rock star” and having plenty of money).

    Is Sebelius another NARL? I am not voting for Obama under any
    circumstances but if a woman is presented as his VP (and it isn’t Hillary, who shouldn’t compromise her character by association with BO), then I’ll actively work to help McCain.

  159. LAMusing — Don’t wait. Nobody knows in November how many McCain votes came from D’s vs R’s, except as reported in exit polls – maybe a couple thousand in all of CA.

    And if you are polled, you can self-identify as a Democrat (as I do as a “Clinton Democrat” or a “Common Man Democrat” or a “Democrat in Exile”).

  160. JJ — yabbut, fundraisers have a habit of telling you what you want to hear.

  161. BB: I was talking about Snowball, one of the “concerned democrats” that has appeared several times in this threat, I thought we had cast a good spell but s/he kept reapering, it seems. Sandy, I have not had the pleasure but I can imagine.

    Florence and her antibody clones have been most efficient so far.

  162. LAMusing, just go ahead and leave. when McCain wins 49 states, they’ll understand that Democrats were key in pushing him over teh top. 🙂

  163. Hillary wants to be President. Barack wants to be the nominee.

    Somehow the rest of us got f*(&*ed in the compromise.

  164. Anyone watching CNN? BO meeting with Hillary at HER home .

    Greta on Fox reporting that Rev. Wright NOT stepping down.

    Interesting “confluence” of stories, that!

  165. The VP will not doubt be a Catholic/Hispanic/Jewish woman born to a miner’s family from W. Penn. Heh.

  166. yes, it was a quick little pat on her arse (following Mishey’s little thumbs-up sign) , but since they focused a lasar beam on it on CNN, it became more noteworthy….I think some of the guys on CNN were drooling…..

  167. CB: I heard
    that Ellen is disappointed by the women who got help from her group of

    Gee … just ‘disappointed?’ I mean, that happens to me once a day.

  168. LAm using,

    I changed to Independent, after 37 years as a Democrat. It was sad, but now I can criticize anybody.

    I think you should change now. You could be recorded as an Indy for McCain. You know, isn’t Barack supposed to get the Indies?

  169. “She let him into her house! Dang, the pressure from the top must be intense! Party unity and all that bull.”

    She lets Trick or Treaters into her house too.

    Seriously, the meeting is on her turf. Good. Hillary is not doing anything without getting some concessions from Obama. She won’t let us down.

    Bet Bill took the toilet paper out of the powder room.

  170. They are meeting long enough for Obama to take the knife out of Hillary’s back before Saturday. Wouldn’t look good.

  171. ronkseattle, on June 5th, 2008 at 10:36 pm Said:

    LAMusing — Don’t wait. Nobody knows in November how many McCain votes came from D’s vs R’s, except as reported in exit polls – maybe a couple thousand in all of CA.

    And if you are polled, you can self-identify as a Democrat (as I do as a “Clinton Democrat” or a “Common Man Democrat” or a “Democrat in Exile”).

    Or, you can growl into the phone that you’re mad as hell PUMA and you’re ready to snap some necks.

  172. Upstate,

    I think KB must have taken care of Snowball. I wasn’t sure if he/she was a sweetie or just rude. I’ll have quick fingers tonight.

  173. “Hillary wants to be President. Barack wants to be the nominee.”


  174. edwardian, you mean St Teresa of Avila? oh wait, you said W. Penn.

  175. Arabella,

    Hillary: Come into my house, said the spider to the fly.

    He’ll be lucky to get out of there without having his hair and eyebrows singed. But she’ll demolish him in such a gracious way that he won’t realize what happened until later.

  176. Another RNC experience ad…is it just me or are these ads kind of cheaply made? Also, it would be more effective if they used his own words…

  177. Did someone say that Rev. Wright is back? Didn’t he retire from the church and has been replaced by another beauty named Moss? I can’t stand it!!!!!

  178. Regency, on June 5th, 2008 at 10:37 pm Said:
    Hillary wants to be President. Barack wants to be the nominee.

    Somehow the rest of us got f*(&*ed in the compromise.

    Preach the word! Wow, that is so true. And sad.

  179. Watching CNN Andersons Pissing Himself At The Thought Of Hillary As VP!

  180. Pat Johnson: He’s baa-aa-aa-ckkk!

  181. What’s next, Fr. Pfleger doing his “impressions” on Letterman?

  182. Stop you guys, I am laughing out loud over here!

  183. JJ: No Obama talking points spewed from the ones I talked to. Many of them watched the RBC hearing or caught clips of it and knew *exactly* what was going on. These people approached me because they knew I volunteered for Clinton. Their opinion on Obama was completely unsolicited. In all this year, I’ve only met one Chinese colleague out of dozens and dozens who thought Obama was a good deal. The Indians seem to be in her camp. A couple of them were toying with Obama at first but they seem to have talked their way through it.

  184. Blog stats.

  185. Yes, I take it Wright announced that he feels he needs to watch over young Moss…and maybe he figured that since B.O. quit the church, he can come back. After all, the ONLY reason B.O. claimed Wright was planning to “retire for some time now” was for B.O. to have an excuse for staying in the church after things blew up. Wright was smart enough to get the mansion and $10 million (or similar) before he agreed to the early retirement…and now he gets to keep that and also to come B-A-A-A-CK!

  186. hlr, I agree, friend was not fooled. He asked for the source of that information and was given high up names in the campaign, but I don’t buy it, and frankly, I hope neither would take it. No need to go down with a sinking ship.

  187. Exactly, hateseputt1988, Obama left the church, now Wright can return. This makes it apparent that Wright’s “retirement” had everything to do with Obama’s campaign, and nothing to do with his need to sit at home all day.

  188. S**t, I’ve regressed. I’m depressed again.

    We’re doomed, literally. I’m more pissed than ever at the DNC for doing this. They’ve put up someone they know can’t win and then have the nerve to accuse McCain of being Bush III. No shit! Now, we’re stuck with Bush again.

    Yeah, they really love this country.

  189. JJ: Wright can always reprise his gig at the National Press Club, and have some CRAZY fun!

  190. JJ — yeah, I hope Rendell, Strickland and Clark all say ‘no,’ leaving him with his bench of Sebelius, McCaskill, etc.

    I still think he’d like to pick Hagel.

  191. With the way these people love to video themselves, I wonder if we will be again treated to Rev Wright doing the “happy dance”.

  192. hir: Yeah, but if BO asked Claire, she’d have to consult her teenage daughter first. LOL!

  193. JJ bama left the church, now Wright can return. This makes it apparent that Wright’s “retirement” had everything to do with Obama’s campaig

    Everything having to do with Obamaland is either a sham or astroturf.

  194. Regency,

    It’s not over till it’s over. There is a lot that can happen between now and August. The resistance is only going to grow stronger.

  195. I think this is Wright’s way of getting back at Obama. The Republicans will camp outside the Trinity church every Sunday.

  196. But if Hillary concedes Saturday we’re stuck. Not suspends, concedes. The entire party is stuck.

    The country deserved better.

  197. Except for this position on the war Hagel was Bush all the way.

  198. You know what? It is hotter than h*ll where I live and I am tired.

    I’ll have to find out what H and O are up to tomorrow morning.

    Signing out.

  199. Maybe Wright will accidentally on purpose release some embarrassing tapes….

  200. WS: I would. The entertainment value alone is worth the price of admission.

  201. Goodnight UpstateNY,

    Sleep tight.

  202. Regency: If HRC does concede, not suspend, it will be because she has won some important concession, IMO. But you’re right: “The entire party is stuck.”

  203. We’ll Wait for You — raise your spirits

    Don’t leave the Democratic Party (your personal choice of
    can be made as a Dem), but work
    to change it within. The Dean groups stayed together under Democracy
    For America. They held meetups and had yahoo groups and infiltrated
    the Democratic Party so that now Dean is picking the candidate.

    I unsubscribed from Dean’s brother’s group (DFA) yesterday and
    the DNC today. Our Hillary group is going to branch out and try to
    the local and state party with Hillary Dems. One of its goals is
    to have women taken seriously. So few people play the game that
    just showing up can get you a position of power. Instead of volunteering
    and donating for the Obama campaign, I’m going to focus on taking
    over the party from the inside.

    The Dean people did it in four years. I believe that this faction gives
    money to Daily Kos and some other of the “netroots.” This blog
    could be a focal point for the Hillary faction of the party. Hillary has
    a huge database of supporters. Connect with local Hillary supporters.
    There are lots of us.

  204. Love to be a fly on the wall during these talks.

  205. I can’t imagine what it’s like for Hillary, to meet face to face, with someone who called her a racist and said she gave the go ahead for his assassination? I would want to kick him in the nuts!

  206. Hello Everyone from Silver Spring, MD, in the heart of The Collective. I see more and more congresspeople are being assimilated into The Collective. But we are the resistance, and from what I can see our ranks are growing. I think Hillary is suspending to allow us to go our own way and stop Obama.

  207. Pat Johnson — uhm, didn’t Hagel vote for the war? That’s supposed to be a disqualifier for Dems.

  208. I hope she just suspends and keeps her delegates. She needs to do what Jesse Jackson did and change the nomination process and add UHC to the Democratic platform. I’d like Obama to have to defend mandates after attacking it so vociferously in the primary.

  209. Well maybe McCain is the real trojan horse for the Republican Party? Kind of kidding but he was talking to Kerry about VP right? I know Hillary is a loyal Democrat but I wish she would go Independent if that’s still possible. Would Bloomberg help her? If CB’s e-mail is accurate the DNC and all conspirators need to go down the tubes. It would be great if one or some of the super delegates “in the know” would expose this. They would be a good VP candidate for Hillary’s Independent ticket. Thanks so much for your website. I know I’ve personally benefited from the support especially with our Michigan situation.

  210. at least we get to see one thing that we knew we’d enjoy—the relentless, gron-up (no kids golves) thrashing Obambi will now bear the brunt of for several months! He’s limped over the finish line for the primaries, …he’ll be crippled all over (Mishy will sport some bandages as well) by October!

  211. She will suspend, not concede. I believe that…because they need to give her a chance to pay off debt before August, and suspension is the only way that can happen. If she concedes, Obama is paying her debt.

    For the PUMA organizers, setting up an email listserv would be great.

  212. ben carlson: I guess you’re immune to the BO meme: “You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.” LOL!

  213. Hillary is not releasing her delegates as of now. I think that is one place where she can draw the line. Do they really think that we don’t see how they are trying to totally humiliate her into doing this. They are just making the situation worse…not that it could be worse. For god sakes, I watch FOX news now. You think they have a problem???

  214. There is NO woman besides Hillary who can help Obama win the election.


    I hope that wasn’t too muddled.

  215. CB: I will be interested in being kept up-to-date on who the Hillary Dems are. I’m afraid I haven’t kept up on which party members went with BO during the primary season. Us Hillary voters will need to know whom to support in November. I hope I can be kept informed on this site. Thanks for your information.

  216. We need to start a photo gallery of The Collective. At the top will be Senator Claire.

  217. Also, about the tape RUMOR (just a rumor), have you seen the latest tape update via Larry Johnson:

    Larry Writes:
    If someone was accusing my wife of saying something racist that was not true, and you asked me in public, I would say emphatically and clearly, “it is not true.” So what is Barack’s problem. He was asked about this today and here is his reply:

    We have seen this before. There is dirt and lies that are circulated in emails and they pump them out long enough until finally you, a mainstream reporter, asks me about it,” Obama said to the McClatchy reporter during a press conference aboard his campaign plane. “That gives legs to the story. If somebody has evidence that myself or Michelle or anybody has said something inappropriate, let them do it.”

    Asked whether he knew it not to be true, Obama said he had answered the question.

    JJ here: This sounded like a non-denial denial to me. Wouldn’t you say that this is a ridiculous allegation of course Michelle never said any such thing if the tape really doesn’t exist.

  218. MABlue: Not even Oprah??? Aagh!

  219. There is no person that can help Obama win the election. I’ve never been so against a person in my life.

    I can’t remember where the quote come from but it goes, “If there’s ever chance when I can screw you, you’d best believe you’re gonna get screwed.”

    Yeah, that’s me.

  220. Not sure of Hagel’s original position on the war but he came down hard sometime last year against it. I am just speechless tonight thinking about the DNC and now a reappearance of Rev Nutcase. What a bunch of no account liars. If this was what Hillary had in her baggage Keith Olbermann would be hoarse from all his “special comments”.

  221. Keith O is so yesterday. We are the new cool people. We are the hip, independent ones. The spirited Resistance Movement. I’d like to see a female business woman as McCain’s VP. He needs a Ross Perot type.

  222. Seriously, Pat. The amount of crap he has gotten away with is ridiculous…

    When my sister interned for the White House way back when, they wanted to talk to her childhood babysitters. CHILDHOOD BABYSITTERS. The rationale being to make sure that she wasn’t exposed to anti-American sentiment. And this guy sits in the church of god damn of America for twenty years and isn’t a problem??? I mean she was a 21 year old with no real security clearance or authority, she copied stuff, and they wanted information about all siblings, neighbors, past teachers, babysitters, college roommates, etc…it is UNBELIEVABLE to me that the DNC does not see these associations as a problem. I am not passing judgment on what he truly believes and how much of Wright’s sentiment he agrees with, but shouldn’t it raise some eyebrows from the leadership?

  223. I’m still hoping that she’ll hold her delegates.

    But if she actually concedes, we’ll still have work to do. Withholding our money from the DNC and agitating for new leadership. And fighting back agaist the utter misogynistic CRAP from the media, the boyblogz, and the Obama campaign that forced her out and destroyed our coalition party.

    I also want and plan to stay active and motivated during the Summer of Revelations About Barack Obama, so that we’ll be ready to pounce in August when Hillary needs us (please god!)

  224. JJ…they’ve been assimilated. they are of one voice and one mind. Fortunately, you have not been.

  225. JJ — The logic is silly. I agree with Obama on this. Put up or shut up.

    No politician is foolish enough to categorically deny.

  226. JJ: But you’re assuming the DNC elite actually had eyebrows…

  227. Hillary could write a book about this election and pay off the debt in 24 hours.

  228. Crockett, you’re assuming those eyebrows weren’t botoxed past sanity.

  229. If we here Hillary say “party unity” a lot you will know that she is sending a message to us to RESIST.

  230. Excellent point, Abycat.

  231. This horrific primary did not just happen – it has been planned for a long time – you would have thought they would use someone with some electibility – but the D’s own stupid don’t they. Hillary would never EVER go along with what they have planned.

    I did not write this – I found it amusing that Coward Dean says no lobby money NOW – right.

    CB’s post from above really makes sense. I have been a life long Dem – I am disgusted and will never trust them again. I am sickened by their actions.

    Thursday, June 5, 2008
    Senator Obama: you are getting CREEPy

    BO – CREEPy,
    DNC – CREEPier
    Party “elders” – CREEPiest

    This post begins with Richard Nixon but it ends with a question for Senator Obama and the Democratic Party.

    After narrowly winning the presidency in 1968, President Richard M. Nixon decided to create and use various slush funds controlled exclusively by him to extend his political power by any means necessary.

    The first such fund, established in 1969, was entirely secret at the time, and its purpose was to raise money and funnel it toward Nixon loyalists (not Republicans, I stress, but Nixon loyalists), particularly those running in the 1970 mid-term elections. The narrowness of his 1968 victory made Nixon desperate to gain support for himself by exercising as much influence as possible over who got elected to Congress. (Incidentally, George H.W. Bush, then running for the Senate, was one of the major recipients of money from the Nixon slush funds.)

    After these forays into power by money grab, President Nixon and his aides formed CREEP (Committee to Re-elect the President) to aide Nixon’s bid for reelection in 1972. CREEP engaged in any number of nefarious activities, most famously spending money it raised to hire those who broke into the Watergate to spy on the D.N.C and then using more money to hush-up the people who carried out the break-in. But months before all that, CREEP was spending money covertly in order to undermine Democrats in primaries around the country.

    In 1972, Richard Nixon defeated George McGovern in an utter landslide. This probably would have happened without CREEP’s activities given that most of the country simply did not support McGovern’s candidacy.

    Cut to the present and Senator Obama: More and more reports about Senator Obama’s attempt to throw his weight around are emerging. One, from the Houston Chronicle, particularly put me in mind of Nixonian tactics. According to the Chronicle, an Obama superdelegate reports being threatened by an Obama “operative”. The operative allegedly told the delegate that she had better vote in favor of a preferred Obama loyalist at the Texas Convention this weekend, or else Senator Obama’s campaign would make sure she could not attend the Democratic National Convention in Denver even as an Obama delegate.

    As of now, nobody knows whether Senator Obama himself is behind this particular threat and the threat itself remains an allegation. But if Senator Obama is not behind it, should he not be using his much touted oratory to repudiate any and all such tactics?

    This country has been down this road before: an excessively monied politician using any means possible to increase his personal political power. In the 1970s, the country had to switch directions in the most difficult way conceivable: investigate a sitting President, discover he was a common crook, and then force his resignation. Today, we citizens have an alternative to risking this sort of horror show. The Republicans are offering the McCain alternative. If that alternative does not sit well with you, the Democratic Party still has the chance to offer the country a candidate other than Senator Obama: the Democratic Party still has the chance to reject Senator Obama as their nominee in August. Whether there will be another Democrat available and appealing to the voting public remains to be seen.

  232. Regency: You can ask ben carlson, but I think that part of the ritual of being assimilated into The Collective is to have your eyebrows shaved, so that you can’t raise them anymore…

  233. ben – I am now turning on Fox News and leaving the room. I want to give them ratings. I don’t watch it, just want to make sure Tweety and KO know the channel is no FNC.

  234. The DNC sent me a request for money via email today. I unsubscribed and gave them multiple reasons why I was unsubscribing.

    In the meantime, my old website is busy “purifying” their list of posters by getting rid of anyone who isn’t a dedicated true believer. That “big tent” just keeps shrinking.

  235. Good lord I hope she writes a book about this election someday..maybe Maggie can write the book so she can tell the truth about Obama. Though Hillary will need her in 2012…we need Maggie from the start!

  236. Channel is “on” FNC. Oops.

  237. Heh, Jan, I don’t unsubscribe because I really enjoy sending them emails back detailing all the reasons why they won’t be getting my money this time either. I know no one reads them, or maybe some lowly intern, who tallies the happies and unhappies, but it gives me great satisfaction to virtually shout them down.

  238. #Crockett, on June 5th, 2008 at 11:08 pm Said:

    Regency: You can ask ben carlson, but I think that part of the ritual of being assimilated into The Collective is to have your eyebrows shaved, so that you can’t raise them anymore…

    Now THAT’S funny.

  239. Boo Radley: I found it amusing that Coward Dean says no lobby money NOW – right.

    Ah, well, that’s simple enough to explain. Paul Tewes (BO campaign) has already taken over the DNC.

  240. Of course you know what your church stands for. I am Catholic and I know the tenets of what is preached and what is expected of a Catholic attending mass.

    He had to know this church preached subversion and attached whites each week in the sermon. His church has an agenda that makes them different from other black churches around the country. The black liberation theology is based in part on the philosophy of Marxism which sanctions the overthrow of governments. I believe much of this started in Latin American communities back in the late 60s, early 70s.

    His association and how much assimilation he adopted is open to scrutiny.

  241. Boo Radly: And remember, too, that Obama is a child of Chicago Politics, pure and simple. So, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck…

  242. what is she going to say on saturday? with all these weenies bitching about she dodn’t grovel enough to the man who flipped her off and accused her of trying to assassinate him, the only thing that would satisfy me would be to call out the members of the NY delegation and CBC who were quoted in that fox article about how she can ‘make right with democrats” (hint; we’re the democrats, actually and she’s okay by us) and beat them senseless. That would ‘make things right’ for me.

  243. The DNC just reformed under a new name; The Katherine Harris Unity Party.

  244. Ben, I prefer Sen. Aunt Claire, top cheerleader for the BMOC — Barry’s Misogynistic Ornery Camp.

    Pat, Hagel voted in favor of the war. Hagel is a man without a country or state right now. The only election he could win right now in NE is for crash test dummy or gallows necktie model.

  245. What would satisfy me is her saying that she and Bill have a second honeymoon to Aruba coming up and she has some pressing work at her Senate Office, and that Chelsea returns to work on Monday because she’s used up her leave time. Therefore, sorry out of free time to campaign.

    He can sink or swim without her. Not her problem, nor mine. The DNC chose the guy that could “win” now they can live with it. They won’t suffer but the working class will just keep sinking into poverty. And they don’t even care.

  246. Oh, that “she needs to make things right” crap really gets under my skin. Are these people stupid??? They just want to piss us off. This is about totally humiliating Hillary in every possible way they can. They clearly don’t want our votes or they wouldn’t be acting this way. this is about destroying this woman. They are like an abusive husband. Let Freedom Ring. Let the whole world know that today is a Day of Reckoning.

    And there will be A Reckoning.

  247. Nov. 5, 2008, the day I say “I told ya so”

  248. c’mon hill–a few uppercuts to the chin from you means vicarious satisfation to everyone who’s just about fed up with theis weenies’ constant, insaitable need to see you degraded and humiliated. lol

  249. “ben carlson, on June 5th, 2008 at 10:54 pm Said:
    Hello Everyone from Silver Spring, MD, in the heart of The Collective. I see more and more congresspeople are being assimilated into The Collective.”

    Don’t you know? The DNC was actually invaded by the body snatchers, and they have started converting your congressmen into pod people.

  250. You know what they actually may get it. They know a good percentage of Hillary’s supporters are gone to them. This is about humiliating her even more. I called my mom who was such a strong supporter of Hillary and she was getting off the golf course in Wooster, Ohio (very red area) and she was saying that her golfing partner and 84 year old woman was all for Hillary and would not vote for Obama. The DNC knows this. They know we aren’t coming back.

  251. They won’t be satisfied on Saturday unless she comes out onstage holding hands with Obama and Oprah and promising never to do it again. Then she hugs and kisses Michele who will be hold her six inch stiletto in her hand and begs for forgiveness while promising her votes. Then Rezko will appear on an overhead monitor insisting that even though he hardly knows Obama he will vote for him in November. After that Rev Wright, Fr. Pfleger, Louis Farrakhan will enter stage right for a few throw down sermons while kicking Bill Clinton just of the heck of it. The finale will be sung by will.i.am and a chorus of stars singing “Yes We Can”. Hillary will then be thrown into the mosh pit. The End.

  252. RE:
    The DNC’s announcement that they won’t accept money from lobbyists per Obama’s orders scares me, actually. There hasn’t been (and won’t be) any such announcement from the RNC.

    I heard a report on NPR radio and they actually finished by stating that it “wouldn’t make much difference” as the RNC has 40 million bucks vs 4 million for the DNC from lobbyists.

    We also know that Obama has plenty of support that in effect from lobbying industry…

  253. secondarily, i guess i could live with her saying, “BO and I talked the other night. he apologized to me and to all the women of America for the contempt , disrespect and disgust he and his appalling campaign showed them. for the appalling way he ran his campaign. I received assurances from BO that the oozing classisim that infected his second rate effort, where he ended up with fewer votes than i did, and he and the party’s contempt for both the people of this country and the concept of majority rule will not continue into the fall….”

  254. uhm, didn’t Hagel vote for the war? That’s supposed to be a disqualifier for Dems.

    Obama Rules. It’s OK If You’re Obama.

  255. Im seeing some new names on her that is excellent. The Resistance is growing.

  256. PatJ, you make my day! or night, whichever it is now here in Boston.

  257. (((spitting up juice))) @ Seriously’s last post. Good stuff. LOL!

  258. ben, but why is she putting up with it? I don’t get it, she has nothing to gain by placating them, and people all across America are just getting more and more pissed by the way she’s being treated.

    WHY give them the satisfaction?

  259. Hagel/Schmagel…nobody cares about his VP. McCain’s VP will matter. He can really throw some excitement into his campaign with something new and different. Obama’s campaign is ALL about him. It rises and falls on him. Anyone in advertising and business would tell you that it’s not a good thing to have a product completely dependent on one person’s name (i.e. Martha Stewart) because when that name is tarnished so is the product.

  260. ben carlson: The Federation must defeat the Borg Collective! … er, I mean, we must defeat the DNC Collective! Yeah, that’s it!

  261. I doubt that Obama would choose Hillary as VP (which I like) and the SuperD’s certainly are not going to push for it, considering that they have already jumped ship. Obama needs to look strong and masterful and he would look weak just standing beside Hillary; and inexperienced and lacking in knowledge just speaking in Hillary’s presence.

    If Hillary were the nominee, she can’t pick Obama as VP either because she has been saying all along that he is inexperienced and has not crossed the threshold of being Commander in Chief. She couldn’t very well foist him on the American people when it is so obvious that what she has said about him are all true.

    So if it is true that the DNC expect Obama to lose, then voting for McCain will be a pleasure.

  262. Seriously

    I wish I had the answer. I think at some point we are going to have to realize that what we are doing here is bigger than Hillary. Everyone I know who supports her (just normal people who don’t blog) would love for her to lambaste him. I guess she is keeping her options open. I could never do it.

  263. Murphy: I am in Springfield, 90 miles away!

  264. I call them the OBORG or OBAMABORG. It’s really a perfect metaphor. Goes well with Obamabots.

  265. felizarte: I think you’re absolutely right. BO couldn’t choose HRC as VP for all the reasons you delineate.

  266. VP isn’t happening. This is just another way to humilate her. He needs to get the media saying she wants it and then not give it to her. Why she puts up with this? Hell if I know.

  267. ben carlson, on June 5th, 2008 at 11:31 pm Said:
    I call them the OBORG or OBAMABORG.

    Aye, Captain!

  268. Riverdaughter is our captain. however, I have often thought I was part Betazoid.

  269. P.U.M.A.

  270. i know she’s party loyal beyond all reason. i don’t expect her to lambaste him. I just want her to not say anything, because anything she says will have pelosi and dean and all the rest of them gloating.

  271. http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1812050,00.html
    This is an article on why Clinton didn’t win over more women. Unfortunately there is no comment section.
    I thought the article cheery-picked to support the premise. If you take away the youth and AA women, I thought Hillary did win the majority of women (white, Asian and Latino) in most age groups.
    Does anyone have the stats?
    Anyone has insight into why more women didn’t vote for Hillary?

  272. GRL – Here’s a hint. Even under the Old Rules of Politics, contributions from lobbyists accounted for less than 1/1000th of any major candidate’s presidential campaign fund.

  273. ben carlson, on June 5th, 2008 at 11:34 pm

    Betazoid, hey, that’s cool. I believe I’m part Vulcan. And with Capt. Riverdaughter, we’re growing into quite a crew. Battle stations!

  274. I don’t even care that more women didn’t support Hillary. Clearly numbers didn’t make a difference since she is not the “nominee.”

  275. If anyone remembers Howard Dean was offered the Chair of the DNC as a consolation prize. They really didn’t want Dean, just his money and donor list. There was an organized effort within the party to stop Dean primary run. They felt Dean would be another McGovern. I somehow have the sixth sense that the main coalition against Dean happened to be the Clinton faction.. Not everyone was happy with Dean as Chair either if I recall correctly.

    In 2008, Dean and Brazille manipulate to get the next McGovern the nomination who happens to have more money than Dean ever did. Obama’s money camp will reduce Dean to a figure head status.Obama will go down in flames and Dean and Brazille will be marginalized.

    BTW I don’t even think Hillary Clinton can get Obama elected. She isn’t She-Ra of the universe

  276. CB – I read your post to hubby because we’ve been scratching our heads trying to figure the blatantly poor choice making by the DNC. It so looks like they’re not in this race to win. This explanation or something close to it makes sense to us. I’m very disappointed and also very angry about what has gone down. I wanted to believe the Democratic Party was better than the Repubs. What’s with Howard Dean, and why would he be a party or allow what’s gone on? Certainly cannot vote for a candidate who invokes from me the same reaction as Bush (crazy I know). So be it.

    I just had a thought, Obama should choose Oprah as his VP – lol.

    I so appreciate The Confluence ~ this is a positive coping tool!

  277. alee21, on June 5th, 2008 at 11:35 pm

    I think you’re right on those stats.

  278. oooh, scary the left. Democrats have done so much to fight against the war and for abortion rights. whether it’s telling women that their rights are political footballs to be thrown under the bus to attract nice well off Republicans who are class appropriate and shop at whole Foods, or rolling over and licking Bush’s hand because it’s impossible to accomplish anything in congress unless you’re in the majority oh no, I mean minority, well, i guess either, someday they’re going to wake up and do something progressive, and tehn we’ll be sorry! But wait–no worries, after all they prevented alito and roberts from getting on the Co–oh yeah.

    Hey, I know! we can all move to Chicago and get Tony Rezko to buy us a house in exchange for allowing a bunch of stupid poor people, many of whom are also, yuck, old, female, and/or gay, to freeze–we’ll prove we’re Dems! After that, we’ll disenfranchise until the sun goes down–we’re Dems alright!

    Vote O–because he last thing this country needs is a third term from an imposibly arrogant, inexperienced, man with no particular knowledge or qualifications who likes to engage in election fraud.

  279. They do want to win. They assumed the country would accept just about anybody to beat the Repub because of the dissatisfaction. Obama was their choice to purge the Clintons and satisfy the white guilt at the same time. But make no mistake, they did want to win.

  280. Thank you all for the feedback! I’ll go to the post office Monday, get the registration form, fill it in and mail it right away. I’ll xerox a copy to send to the DNC : ) And I’ll write on the top “Bye-Bye Sweetie”

  281. The Left — Yeah, I’ve got a whole closet full of those bloody shirts on bloody coathangers.

    Funny how the O’bots can’t attach enough importance to those issues to back the most likely winner.

  282. Wow, “The Left,” some random dude with a blog has insulted us! Why, I’ve never heard of such a thing.

  283. PS – Women’s rights are women’s rights. Women’s rights are not a club to be used against women. Thanks.

  284. The Left: Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, both two of our own, could have, should have plotted to end the funding as we had expected in 2006. If you are looking to place blame there is enough to go around. Many of us are mothers here and we do not appreciate you lumping us into some disgusting visual that appears in your head. Take it to the DNC, or whatever is left of it.

  285. The Left, even if all of Clinton’s supporters voted for Obama, he wouldn’t win, so don’t setup the narrative that Obama’s loss is Clinton’s fault.

  286. Do you ever get the feeling that these assholes are never going away?

  287. The Left, clearly you came here to lecture us and call us Republicans. We are not stupid.

    You should think about it. If you plan to actually do anything in politics beside be a cheerleader on your own blog, no one will ever be convinced to see things your way if you burst into their conversation to lecture and call them names.

  288. Oh, he’s so cute! The Left, are you one of the true believers?

    He doesn’t REALLY have bloody shirts or hangers. look it up in the handbook under “symbols to scare the rubes into thinking that we stand for anything other than personal power and warmed over Republicanism.”

  289. Everyone has seen the wall of resistance to voting for Obama(KY WV PA OH), in states Democrats need. Even after being crowned the winner for months, Obama got creamed the last day of the primary.

    Obama will not win. What you see from “the Left” is the scorched earth policy of Obama campaign. They will try to blame Clinton when they go down in flames.

  290. I’m sorry – the left – I took it as an insult .. could not even get through the second paragraph ..

    I hope you save anymore like that – for just – you …and/or – just you and someplace else …

  291. Mawm,

    I saw you quoted again in an article. Not really quoted, just what you said last Saturday at the RBC.

  292. The question about voting or not voting for McCain is not a question of beating Obama. Obama will lose. Dems voting for McCain is the difference between a lose and a humiliating repudiation.
    My preference is for the latter. We need to send a big message to the DNC that they messed up big time. Democrats should stand for Democracy and count the vote. They decided not to, and for me they stopped being Democrats.

  293. TheLeft, when did Obama start trying? If he started today, I missed it.

  294. If you take the women out of the equation that still leaves Jews, Latinos, working class whites, gays, blue collars. Where else is he going to “court” their votes? People are disgusted out there and won’t soon forget. So no amount of massaging is going to make a big difference. He is unelectable.

  295. “The left”

    We agree on something, Obama is wasting his time trying to get our votes.

    Which begs the question, what is your purpose here?

  296. The Clinton coalition: Latinos, Asians, LGBTs, white working class, the “uneducated,” and white women. She even had some Republicans under her belt if she could get to the GE.

    Yeah, he won’t lose.

  297. Ah, Pat, yeah, the Jews, the Catholics, forgot about them.

  298. Another TM defector signing in. I recognize some familiar names up there – hey y’all. Over the past month, I’ve spent waaay too much time cruising TalkLeft (found them kind of late in the game), but I understand that the ground rules there will change as soon as Hill formally suspends this Sat. I’ll probably be more of a lurker here, but it’s a comfort to know I’ve got some place to go. So thanks!

  299. Would one of you trolls tell me why you keep coming here?

    We don’t go to your place and crap on the rug. We’re over here minding our own business.

    Does trollmaster Axelrod send you here? Is there a list of places you’re supposed to pollute each day?

  300. The Left is gone now. This troll has been here before and has been asked not to come back.

    Riverdaughter has a new post up. Come on up for a nightcap!

  301. Regency, obama has bloggers and wealthy people who aren’t Republican. that’s like 1% of the population right there. Add in the fact that God is going to rain down registered voters on E day as thanks for nominating his son, and it’s easy why you people don’t have any faith.

    God is also going to do away with the Electoral college. Ha ha!

  302. Whoops – innumerate as always. I’m really Kat5. Sorry about that.

  303. Okay left, where is Obama going to get all these new voters?

    If he could really do that he would have won the nomination months ago.

    He can’t even hang on to reliable Democratic voters.

  304. myiq: You are forgetting those 7 unnamed states. All Obama supporters. Every single one of them.

  305. The Left; Take another week off. You deserve it.

  306. omg – did you guys see real clear politics tonight? Hillary against McCain is the landing page, and she beats him by 3 points! Nationwide. Then you have to click to see Obama vs McCain, and he only beats McCain by 2.2 points. How can the man have clinched this nomination….and be behind HRC in the polls?

    I hope she ‘suspends’ and waits for the Republicans to start airing Obama’s dirty laundry, because she is clearly the strongest person ever to step up for this job.

  307. The Left is so articulate!

  308. Pat,

    Wouldn’t it be great if some media person asked him to name all 57 states? And then ask him if he knows what city he is in.

  309. Hi All,

    I’m a refugee from TM and TalkLeft (where I had mostly lurked) and am so thrilled to be here.

    To support Hillary is to support democracy!

  310. bb: He is so lame!

  311. Obama came here and saw The Left’s last comment. right now he’s still on the floor orgasming, but when he’s done, he’d like to offer the left Secretary of State!

  312. I don’t have time to read the whole thread of comments right now (the first 50 were great) so forgive me if someone has already said this. Prediction: Once Sen. Clinton officially withdraws, they will seat MI and FL with full voting privileges. Thereby solving that pesky problem as well.

  313. You know, like that Onion News spoof “Diebold Machines leak results of Election 2008″ – I wish the DNC had just told us – oh, yeah, we fixed it. We’re planning to give him all the delegates that he didn’t earn, and then we have a pact that the SDs will pledged to refuse her to take it to the Convention. There’s no way your candidate will win, so don’t waste your time.”

    We just want his money anyway, and this is all about email lists and downticket. What’s Democracy?

  314. Did it never occur to them that it wasn’t Obama bringing all the new Democrats in, but GWB and years of Republican corruption and ineptitude? A tanking economy? The war?

  315. CB, your post just confirms for me what I’ve long suspected: that this whole thing was a fix right from the beginning, and Sen. Clinton didn’t really have a chance. This is so outrageous that I hardly know what to do with it. This is a total subversion of democracy. This is a total disenfranchisement of the voters on every level. It’s a good thing I don’t live on the East Coast, or I’m afraid I’d have to rearrange Mr. Dean’s face for him. What you are telling us is that basically the whole party fell in line for 30 pieces of silver. James Carville was prescient in accusing Richardson of being a Judas. But even he probably didn’t expect that the whole party would be complicit. And we wonder why nothing ever gets done in Congress, or why they just keep enabling Bush? Evidentally, none of them have any independent thought whatsoever.

    This just disgusts me on so many levels. We need a damn president a hell of a lot more than the party needs more money. Quite frankly, the party would have had plenty of money if they had shown any support for Hillary. The whole reason they DON’T have any money is because so many of us stopped giving them money because of the FL/MI situation. If they had done right by Hillary, they would have all the money they need.

    What is also pretty crazy about this is the fact that it is almost certain that Obama didn’t get all that money from small donors. There have been many trying to investigate this on No Quarter. It sounds more like the money came directly from Wall Street and was made to look like Internet donations. Obama may have young supporters, but there is a limit to how much money college students have. That means they aren’t going to get any money from most of those donors. So they sold us out for nothing! And on a related note, every single Clinton donor got cheated out of their money. Not by Hillary, of course, but by the DNC.

    I’m really having a hard time getting my head around this because the whole thing is just so despicable on so many levels. And the fact that they would do it now, when we have so many problems that will NOT get fixed with Obama or McCain, just makes it worse. May these a**holes rot in h*ll! Sorry for the French, but this is just beyond the pale.

    I really don’t think we should let them get away with this. I think we should get this information out as many places as possible. We should also let every SD know that WE know they sold us out. Let them know that they aren’t getting away with it, because WE know. I would love to see this plastered all over the news. I used to hate how Fox would tear down the Democratic Party, but this time, they richly deserve it. Unity, hah! Let’s shove their damn unity where the sun don’t shine!

  316. At the top of the current front page of clintondems.com, in red letters:

    About Us

    [ end of red letters ]

    Welcome to Clinton Dems!

    The goal of this website is to create a place where Democrats that feel the DNC and media have acted in bad faith towards the American people can gather to organize, share insights and have their voices be heard. The Superdelates are watching…make sure they hear you too!

    Also I’m acquainted by email with the woman who did start the site. She’s a good person but she is not Maggie Williams. If she were Maggie Williams, she would have asked some paid expert’s advice about the html rather than mine. 🙂

  317. Mawm, on June 6th, 2008 at 12:06 am Said:
    The question about voting or not voting for McCain is not a question of beating Obama. Obama will lose. Dems voting for McCain is the difference between a lose and a humiliating repudiation.

    Yep. All this soul-searching about whether a person could really vote for a Republican and what about the SC etc — is fantasy. If there’s even one state where our votes would trip the national balance, I’ll be surprised — when some study in November shows it.

    McCain will beat Obama. What we can do, is make Obama the McGovern of 2008.

  318. Dave, that’s just lame. You can do better than that. You’re supposed to be quoting lefftover republican talking points from 2000. here, i’ll help; “counting votes is cheating, and is in reality, the real disenfranchisment,” is good, or how about, “there is no right to participation or representation in the process. this is a club, we can do whatever we want, civil rights laws do not apply just because we force the states to pay for, monitor and sanction these–they’re not elections, they’re procedures of a private club.” See?

  319. CB-

    I think the article is a plant to get Hillary voters to vote Obama because they have been pacified that she is not interested in any position with Obama’s administration.

    I have not fallen for it.

  320. riverdaughter, on June 5th, 2008 at 10:01 pm Said:

    Upstate: I work with a lot of Chinese and Indian foreign borns. They apply for citizenship as soon as they can and have a great passion for politics.

    I am one of those Indian-born, creative class type who can read a spread sheet and such.. I am also strongly pro-women and my husband is too (I would not have married him if he was not!). I expected much much better from America on both counts — women and fairness, especially from fellow Democrats. Right now I am angry that this is what I gave up all my sentimentality of my Indian citizenship in exchange for. I am heartsick at the corruption and the sexism. Maybe time to find another country or go back?

  321. Hello everyone –

    I’ve taken a thorough look at all the conservative/republican sites. The consensus is that Obama is the weaker candidate and Hillary needed to be out for McCain to win. The fear is that she’ll get the VP spot and McCain will lose. But since the democratic party imploded due to Obama campaign tactics with respect to Clinton and Obama’s own hubris and arrogance – and this wont stop, they don’t see her getting the VP. And they do see many of her voters walking. Some said that had Obama become gracious and publicly admonished his “bots” with respect to how they are treating non-Obama voters, some may have changed their minds. But as the nastiness continues (and we see it on all the pro-Obama and non-pro Obama blogs – the chance is greater that they will stay home or vote McCain.

    Our party’s illegal actions, hypocrisy, Obama’s behavior and conitnuos changing of positions on issues, threats against Clinton supporters etc. are filling them with glee because the pot that called the kettle black is not even blacker. Many rep’s with whom I’ve had serious discussions over the last years about their party and president are calling me on the carpet and I cannot defend the indefensible.

  322. Rep. VP – the blogs consider Palin, Jindal (especially Jindal), and possibly Rice as contenders (along with others – but these are thenames I’ve been seeing most often). Afew are suggesting a cross over ticket with Clinton…

  323. about those young voters….my son’s entire high school is pro-Obama (only the seniors can vote). The day he announced himself as the presumptive nominee, a few wore their Obama t-shirts to school but elation was lacking. In the course of a conversation with about 15 of his friends they talked about who would win. The unanimous consensus was that with Hillary out, McCain would win. So he asked why they thought that – the general consensus was that he was not ready and most people will vote for the person they can depend on to make decisions to carry the country through good and bad times.

    Hillary could have done that .

  324. So are Hillary supporters prepared to bash Steinem? He she an Obamaton? Is she an idiot? Is she evil? Shall she be disparaged like every other person who might even think of voting for Obama?

  325. No need to bash Steinem but I will support MCcain

    goto http://www.hcsfjm.com to donate to 527 ads against Obama.

  326. Gloria Steinam gets it.

    The Republicans, who contribute to such 527 ads, don’t

  327. Thanks Tina.

  328. Its time for Hillary, to run independent, she’d win! and no harm to the rest of the Dems in Congress. Shes got the organization and O = zero!

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