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A spreading stain — Links from around Hillary Land

Saturday, millions of us watched as the DNC stole 4 Michigan delegates directly from Hillary, reallocated the Uncommitted Michigan delegates and handed them to a candidate whose name didn’t even grace the ballot and the — and THEN — cut the Florida and Michigan delegates in half, making them virtually ineffective in influence.

Or so we thought.

We didn’t realize the subtle brilliancy of the Obama-Dean alliance when they successfully negotiated that poisonous compromise. But as riverdaughter put it last night:

Hmmm, now we know why the RBC did what the did. She had over 100 delegates from Florida and 73 from Michigan. If he got zero from Michigan and both states had been able to seat with full strength, she could have added over 86 delegates and he would have lost 59. Hmm, that brings her total to 1725 and Obama’s to 1707. Day-um! I wouldn’t concede either.

Friends, riverdaughter isn’t alone in her observations: In offices and shopping malls all across the country friends are sharing their impressions of this election. As of today they’re whispering their doubts but, as The Summer of Revelations drags on those whispers will grow bolder.

The word will spread from blog to blog and friend to friend and cubicle to cubicle: The Democratic Nomination was Stolen:

Barack Hussein Obama is not a horrendous candidate BECAUSE of his skin color (some might say he is in spite of it), but race WAS and IS a factor in this election. Obama has become one of the most corrupting influences in our political/public life, exactly because of his race-baiting and dishonesty.


Hillary got the majority of votes cast in this Primary. She lost most of the caucuses because working men and women, the ill and infirm and many others could not attend to stand for her.

The DNC stole Michigan votes from her and gave them to BO; it also gave him the “uncommited” votes so all these voters were disenfranchised and, he had taken his name off the ballot and refused to allow a fair and open revote.


The big buzz of course is when will Hillary “quit” (How about never? Is never good for you?) and “accept” that she is done with and silently retire to live a life of penance and contemplation. Chuckle. Nice try, guys. She has the upper hand. She doesn’t owe anyone in the DNC, the media, the blogosphere or the Obama campaign anything. Her supporters are totally behind her and furious at her treatment. There is nothing anyone can offer her that she wants more than what I quoted last night, and that includes the VP slot. Her good favor is required for Obama to win the general, but it is a time-limited deal. With every day that passes, every insult offered, a portion of her backers turn away from Obama and even this magnificent, compelling woman will not be able to woo us back. I’m gone but you might still be able to win over the spousal unit if you act quickly…


As soon as the verdict in the Antonin “Tony” Rezko corruption case was announced today, the Republican National Committee was ready to start firing away on Obama’s relationship with the now convicted Rezko. This ad is scheduled to run on national cable channels.

Finally, as VastLeft says, Don’t Bullshit Me. The whispers have started in my office. Have they started in yours?

138 Responses

  1. No words for what I feel about the blatant corruption, cheating, disenfranfchising, bullying, misogyny, media manipulation. My option is clear in November.

  2. felizarte, I’ve got a lot more options than some. I live in Kansas a state about as far from being a swing state as you can get and still actually have electoral votes.

    So, my vote has always been symbolic. I wasted that symbol on Kerry in 2004. I’m not making that mistake on a bigger mistake.

    I’ll either write-in Hillary’s name or I’ll find a nice mellow third party candidate…

  3. I’m immature except when I’m not immature.

  4. Is Hillary talking in code? She has a video up on her site.

    “I want to thank you. I could not have made THIS PART OF THE JOURNEY without you.”

    Are we going onto phase two Hillary?

  5. The whispers have not started in my office – we have been SCREAMING for weeks. Four of us took off last Friday and drove to DC to join the protest on Saturday.

    I am no longer a Democrat – after 40 years of working for and giving money to the party.

    Two office friends have joined Democrats for McCain.

    I will never vote for Obama.

  6. Katie, that doesn’t sound like a bad proffer at all. Unless things get tight in your respective state.

    In other news: Keith Olbermann’s tax debt is fuel for feud

  7. Most of Hillary’s supporters do not blog. They may not even feel comfortable expressing their disgust publicly. They go about their day and then they will go into the voting booth and cast their vote in November.

  8. katiebird: Went food shopping and bought myself a dozen packs of gum. This will not only stop my daily munchy attacks but will allow me to always have a bucket of spit available for the attacks we know are coming our way. It will be much easier for me to wipe off my screen of spit that does not contain food.
    Am I getting smarter or what?

  9. DownListen – let’s hope you’re onto something!

  10. Exactly Robin.

  11. Aww Pat! I enjoyed reading about your daily “munch” attacks. I embrace mine and get a kick outta others who share in the indulgences. 🙂

  12. Hillary congratulates Obama on his candidacy, not his nomination. Curious.

  13. {{Pat}} You are my hero. Well, after Hillary.

  14. I’m from Ohio, so I have no option except to vote McCain if they succeed in stealing this from Hillary. Let’s make our voices heard!

  15. “Hmmm, now we know why the RBC did what the did. She had over 100 delegates from Florida and 73 from Michigan. If he got zero from Michigan and both states had been able to seat with full strength, she could have added over 86 delegates and he would have lost 59. Hmm, that brings her total to 1725 and Obama’s to 1707. Day-um! I wouldn’t concede either.”

    We had one of those hellacious storms last night and lost power, so I missed this. No wonder they had to steal her delegates.

  16. Corbett Wants To Hear From Hillary Women Supporters Call Now Folks

  17. Pat – that makes me giggle. Hillary, you warrior you.

  18. katiebird: Where would we all be without one another? The outcry is genuine, the pain truly shared. But somehow we can make a difference for our daughters and granddaughters because we really do care which way this country is going. So we must stick together until our voices are heard. Amen.

  19. She knows she was robbed, and she, unless the rest of the “Democrats,” won’t forget FL 2000.

    The rest of the party has committed an atrocity that puts FL 2000 in the shade.

  20. Wow, Confluence doesn’t like me anymore.

  21. katiebird…

    I have something about the shenanigans at the RBC that I’d like to submit as a guest post here… but I can’t find anyones email address.

    if you’re interested, write to me at the email address on THIS comment (i usually use a different one for all comment registration stuff — this is the one I check all the time) and I’ll send along a copy.

    Here is how it starts…

    The “Magic Number” is still 2025, or 2209. But its not 2118.

    That’s because, in violation of the DNC charter, a secret meeting was held, and secret votes were taken, in violation of the Charter provisions. And it all happened so that Donna Brazile and Barack Obama could treat Florida’s Jewish, Latino, and women voters with less regard for their humanity than the founders treated African American slaves.

    These violations occurred with the direct knowledge and involvement of Party Secretary Alice Germond, and Co-chairs James Roosevelt and Alexis Herman. Because of their knowing and willful violation of Party rules, they should be stripped of all authority in the Party organization, and removed from the DNC entirely. And if Howard Dean or any other party official was cognizant of the violation of the Rules, they too should lose their jobs.

    The Democratic Party Charter (Article 9, section 12) states “All meetings of…official party committees…shall be open to the public and votes shall not be taken by secret ballot.” Yet a two hour closed meeting in which business before the committee was discussed was held, and secret votes were taken during that meeting.

    it then examines the sequence of events that occurred, and includes information from a phone call I had with Alice Germond…

  22. Did everyone hear Dean’s statement today?

    “We’re gonna lose in Florida! And Ohio! And West Virginia! And Nevada! And Pennsylvania! And New Jersey! And then we won’t be in the White House! Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!”

  23. I live on an acre as do most of my neighbors. Three of the houses in this area are owned by Obamabots. I am grateful that my brilliant husband has always been a Hillary supporter (he is a very smart man!) and I am grateful that my two sons (14 &11) have watched this from the beginning and they get it—they know exactly what is going on.

    Lately I have popped in at taylor marsh and I only stay for a brief time. I don’t get why these people think that attacking us is a good thing. I guess they really believe they don’t need me. Well, they may not need me, but what about my husband?, my mother?, my sister?, my 7 dear friends?—-all of them are not going to vote for Obama either. We will add up and we will be a powerful force.

    One more thing—-I am tired of the crap said to me on my blog. I was threatened the other day and all I can say is—“Boy, I’ll bet those comments make your mother so proud!”

    Hill Yes I am pissed and I am letting the world know it!

  24. It is time to protest this injustice. Clinton won the popular vote, and by the above analysis, may have had the delegate vote as well. Either way, it’s nearly a tie, and yet the super delegates flock to Obama, partly out of pressure from the dnc leaders.

    I’m sure Hillary will do her part to push for unity and want her voters to go along with the coup for the sake of the part because, well, she’s a loyal Democrat. But that doesn’t mean we will do that. If we want to save the party, it’s time to stand up to this injustice.

    Unless I see some changes at the convention in Denver, I will not go along with this outcome. I will not vote for Obama. Period.

  25. KB and RD: we, HillBloggers, need to get in touch with Peter Daou and to continue to be Hillary’s bloggers. The primary may be over but Senator Clinton is at the head of a movement that is 18-million strong. That movement needs blogs: us!

    Let’s get together and increase Hillary’s presence and agenda online.

    Are you ladies with me? (or should I call you the Big Blog Galz?? *runs and hides before KB catches me 🙂 *

  26. Oh, and you guys all remember that 2004 bumper sticker “don’t blame me, I voted for Kerry”?? Yeah? (You see where I’m going with this, dontcha?)

    We need another one of those: “Don’t blame me, Sweetie, I voted for Hillary”

  27. Like Hill says “I’m your girl.”

  28. I just can’t help being mad at Hillary’s campaign staff. I think she’s just too loyal of a person–we all know how Hillary really shined when she was able to cut through all of the obstacles in her way and voters saw the true Hillary–like on Tuesday night. All of these so-called post-mortems (I say: on to Denver!) make one thing clear: Hillary was badly served by her campaign staff and she was too good of a person to throw them under the bus, even though in her heart she must have known that her unwavering loyalty was costing her. We need a president who can stand strong like Hillary! So Howard Dean and the D-N-C, hear us now or hear us later. You have been warned!

  29. I, being the terrible instigator that I am, came up with “Don’t blame me, I voted for the white girl.”

    Yeah, yeah, flame away. I’d probably get put in Gitmo for that with this guy as president.

  30. Let’s put it this way: { I was once a proud member of the Democratic Party but I am not a member of the Obama Party which he just awarded himself today. So with that being said, I am a recently divorced, white older woman, who loves to take long walks on the beach, candlelight suppers, and whose friends tell me I have a great sense of humor! Please include recent picture and a brief resume of yourself since I am looking for a long term relationship with someone with like needs.}

  31. We have to put up PUMA ads on a woman’s network (Oxygen, WE, or Lifetime) and/or wherever its cheapest. With any luck, the media will pick it up because they love the “Dems Divided” storyline.

    I think we have to highlight the corrupt DNC and about the process because I think we’ll be called sore losers if we focus on Hillary. It has to say that they didn’t let Michigan revote and count at all, that Obama lost the popular vote, they stole delegates, and that real Democrats care about voting rights.

    The DNC should be fair and impartial in the nomination process and they weren’t.

  32. FrenchDoc (smile) The only thing I’d do if I caught you was give you a big-huge-hug!

    I love your idea (as long as I get to be a Big Blog Gal and not a Big Bog Gal — which is what I read at first)

    The blog movement is important, but so is the Chat Movement. I think we’ve got to wear our Hillary Gear even MORE now — Especially that “I’m for Hillary, ask me Why” Button.

    I know that here in Kansas she has a lot of fans who never went to the caucus. She doesn’t even know her strength yet.

  33. Wanted:

    A woman with a experience and an IQ of 124 or better. Public service interest is appreciated. Preferably a Senator from a state with the initial NY. Blond and blue-eyed is preferred.

    By the way, this is an ad for POTUS. All disinterested parties need not apply.

  34. Paul? I sent you an email.

  35. update from company picnic: many people have come to tell me how pissed they areabout how the party has behaved. And let’s be clear who we’re talking about. These are the creative class, mostly PhDs in a science field. They are not bloggers but even they are reregistering as independents and vowing not to vote for Obama in the fall. Hillary was our girl and we data heads knew how valuable she is. The number one comment? The party was STUPID.

  36. Has anyone considered contacting WomenCountPAC?

  37. great post. It does feel like Florida 2000 all over again.

  38. Pat (chuckling) I’m getting you to write all my personal ads! That’s great.

    Also (hanging head) I got behind…. I think I’ve cleared the riff-raff out….

  39. I know this: my parents, sister, and I, all long time liberal Democratic activists (of the anti-misogyny variety), have become “unaffiliated” and will vote McCain in November.

    True, we’re Latinos, so technically we don’t “count” to the Obama Party, but we’re only happy to make sure Obama will make history this November: by being the only “Democrat” possible to have lost this year–and by a landslide, too! Latinos will not go for Obama this fall, I can assure you. This landslide could be epic.

    Oh, and no, we’re not alone. By any means. Make sure you ladies talk to each other, even strangers in public. Even I have noticed how women are basically confessing to each other how disgusted, shocked, and furious they are, determined to “show ’em” in November.

  40. Dee, Democrats for McCain. Where do you find them.? How do I join? Any information will be appreciated. Actually after 40 years as a Democrat, after this week, I’ve reregistered as an independent. But if Democrats for McCain exists, my guess is they’ll take me. By the way, if anyone has any information on anti-Obama 527s please let me know. I don’t want my money paying for slander, but if any of these organizations want to put up ads letting people know who Obama really is, I’d be happy to contribute. I just don’t know how.

    Any advice will ge greatly appreciated.

  41. Oh, and everyone be careful with write-in laws in your state. Perhaps RD or KB could do a post on that.

  42. rd: Love it!!

  43. PUMAPAC should link up with WomenPac and do an ad to let America know that the Democrats are essentially corrupt using weaker language of course. It needs to be shown clearly that they rigged the system in a way that was not Democratic and that ordinary Americans can see it and do not approve.

    Their nominee is illegitimate unless they wake up and heed the people.

  44. katie…
    nothing yet…


  45. Obama won the caucuses because he bussed 800 people from precinct to precinct.


  46. I’m so disappointed. I believed Hillary was “sticker” enough to take it to the floor in Denver. I hope the rumors of her being vp on ticket are not true. It would tarnish her image to say the least and I still wouldn’t vote for him.


  47. Davidson–word. I’m the girl who runs my precinct (oh not officially you understand, we don’t like to give girls the title, just the work), and I’m voting a straight Republican ticket in Nov, barring my Senator and Congressman being defeated in the primary and barring the SDs suddenly getting a clue. Hey, we need some CHANGE and it starts with them, right? Maybe we can CHANGE away from being the Misogynist Disenfranchisement Party.

  48. gq: What are you talking about?

    Ay caramba, what has happened to this place?


  49. Regarding ADs. http://votervoter.com helps ordinary people with political ads. It is cheaper.

  50. Ohioana, HRC may yet take it to the floor. Suspending doesn’t preclude that. And I think VP is a nonstarter frankly.

  51. Confluencians, sometimes things get stuck so if you’ve posted something and it doesn’t show up right a way, please let us know.

    Comments are coming so fast these last couple of days that it’s hard to keep up. But, we do try to get the icky stuff out of here and pull the good stuff out of the filter.

    gq, did we lose something? I don’t see anything in the filter?

  52. Paul — check those places…

  53. kbird: I am happy for the Confluence, but also overwhelmed.

  54. I hope you’re right about her taking it to the floor, Regency. It’s our best hope as a country.

  55. UpstateNY: Waving at you from here.

  56. {{UpstateNY}} — I think this is a particularly intense time for people. Lot’s of homelessness in the blogisphere.

    I’m just about ready for a group hug though. I hope this is leading to something important.

  57. @Little Sister: Can you believe this is how bad it is? We’re doing it because we’re Democrats (Yes, we still exist because we believe in a political ideology, something that even the parasitic DNC “leadership” cannot destroy). We’re actually trying to save the Democratic Party from this hostile takeover. Obama is nothing more than a Trojan Horse who’ll gut the Party completely, leaving the left divided and conquered.

    Besides, having McCain as president will force the Democratic Congress to fight back–or else. Who knows? Maybe it’ll smoke out all the parasites.

  58. Edit: I meant to write: “Who knows, maybe it’ll smoke out the parasites.”

  59. corbett’s corner today — good stuff

  60. {{Katiebird}}, I know we’ve just started talking but I’m affectionate that way.

    Buck up everyone, if I believe anything it’s that the Clintons know something we don’t.

  61. I’m with you katiebird. I’m so angry I could scream, but I also know that I need to heal.

  62. Thank you kbir, Pat,

    I guess, I have been working too hard at setting new tents and soup kitchen lines for our new arrivals…

    Give me your tired. .. and welcome.

  63. UpstateNY… soup and tents are fine but where’s the bar??? I need margaritas!! 🙂

  64. Frenchdoc: But of course!!!!! heh.

    Rico, donde estas?

  65. I work at a home for kids who have behavior problems and most if not all of my co workers are democrats but they do not have the strong convictions I have about what the democratic party did to Hillary. They tell me to suck it up and that I have to vote for Obama, I’ve actually had a few people yell at me that I can not vote for McCain and to come to my senses.

    I even had to take down my Hillary poster I had hanging on my wall in my office, that she signed for me when I met her in West Chester, Pa when she came to campaign here. I was told that if I came to work tomorrow it might be torn down and thrown in the trash, I was so upset.

    I will not waiver in my support for Hillary no matter what her plans are, I can not however vote for Obama and WILL NOT succumb to threats. I say keep up the threats it only hardens my resolve to NEVER EVER vote for Obambi!!

  66. Upstate: What would we do without you? We have come together as a makeshift “family”, sharing your ups and downs along with you these last few months. It will taper off after awhile but the excitement of knowing there are so many of us like minded people out there who are desperate to be heard is heartening. Maybe we can make a difference, who knows. At least we can commiserate with one another and help each other through it. Words help, sometimes silliness, sometimes just the spitting will do. It is part of the healing process.

  67. Billy K, you don’t even know how to spell HILLARY’S name right.

    I am taking the long view, and I will not vote for a man who is not QUALIFIED to be Commander-in-chief. Got that? This goes beyond my loyalty to Hillary, which is unending. On top of the fact that he is NOT QUALIFIED, the DNC has turned into everything I hated about the RNC. I won’t line up for a man who is NOT QUALIFIED, when we had an excellent candidate available, for the benefit of a party that supports rampant women bashing.

  68. Billy, you are starting to sound a lot like TM.

  69. I want a new bumper sticker that says:

    “Friends don’t let friends vote obama”


  70. Damn… Billy K just peed in my margarita… UpstateNY, give it to me with a cover next time, will ya?

    Can we kick out people who can’t spell “Hillary”… it’s not that complicated a name!

  71. Michelle, do not lose you job over a poster. Take it down if necessary. I have my picture of Hillary on my fridge. I can look at it every time I go there (which is getting to be once too often) and know she is out there putting up with much more crap and disappointment than anyone has the right to expect. Come here. Read. Vent. Talk to us. But don’t jeopardize yourself.

  72. I just got back from the gym where women on the treadmills next to mine were deep in discussion about the unfairness of the RBC.

    I joined in the conversation, as did a guy and another woman on the ellipticals. So, I’d say that’s proof of what
    Katiebird & Riverdaughter predict. The talk of injustice during this election cycle is spreading from friend to friend – treadmill to elliptical machine!

  73. If the democrats do not win in November, it won’t be because of Hillary or her supporters, it will be because Obama is not qualified and the American people are not stupid. The primary is totally different then the general election a lot more people will vote that didn’t vote in the primary.

  74. Pat Johnson, I did take it down today, I was afraid someone was going to rip it, I will keep that always.

  75. I got another message, this one from the Hillary Rapid Responders. The more I read these message the less it sounds to me like a concession.

    A suspension and endorsement, yeah, but not a concession.

  76. HI Michelle, I HS my Aspie son. Nice hearing from you.

    Frenchdoc: I know how you feel. I sometimes feel like we offer them water and they pee in our well.

    Pat: same here. The Confluence is a Casablanca of sorts….

    Kbird, where is that group hug a la teletubby?

  77. To my knowledge, no one has pointed up the CLEAREST EVIDENCE that the caucuses failed to represent the intentions of the voters: in Texas where Hillary won, the evening caucus had B.O. winning! Now this is about as close to a scientific “treatment/control” experiment as this field would allow. Were the caucuses reflective of the day voters, you would not see this discrepancy.

    In addition to the evidence that caucuses are undemocratic and unrepresentative in general, there’s the evidence of bullying, cheating, and trickery in these particular caucuses.

    In this connection I’m curious as to what an earlier poster meant about Obamies bussing “800 people from precinct to precinct”–lost the source.

  78. Regency, I believe WomenCount said that they would get behind Obama once he was the official nominee, so I am not sure they would help with our rebellion.

    TPM has a post up (won’t link to there, sorry, another poster talked about it at TM) with a quote from Wolfson about how Hillary is not seeking VP, Obama can do as he pleases. Good riddance. No one he picks could possibly compare to her, even Obama does not compare to her, so whatever.

  79. Regency, Geek Love over at TM called headquarters and got confirmation that she is suspending but not giving up her delegates.

  80. Suspending is the only thing I need to hear. That means she is still viable until the end. Wish we could all just carry her bodily into Denver and show those son of a bitches what we really want.

  81. It makes you wonder how powerful Obama is that he can take over the DNC, Democratic Party saying it is his party NOW. What kind of dirt does Axelrod have on all the members of Congress and the Senate that they can bully people over to him so handily. Heard he took Joe Lieberman by the hand on the Senate Floor and pulled him over to a corner for a discussion. Suppose he threatened someone else into submission? How far does the dirty Chicago Politcal Machine reach to enclose so many powerful congressional members. What kind of dirty money has exchanged hands over the years. How deep does the Rezco, Auchi, all the others chasm reach. God help us. This man is evil in the worst way. I thought Karl Rove was a mastermind. Perhaps he tutored Axelrod.

  82. {{Regency}} Thank you so much — And NOW:
    {{{ Group Hug }}}

  83. Is anyone the “official” nominee?

  84. Does anyone know the time and place on Saturday that Hillary will be speaking? I know it’s in Washington DC but I don’t know time or place

  85. Regency, There can be nothing official until the Convention. But, you’d never know that from going to the DNC site.

  86. They’re announcing the place later, but you need to RSVP first. They’re probably trying to determine how much space they’ll need.

  87. I feel the love from Massachusetts!!

  88. DNC: they give us lemmings and we make McCain president.

    I would’ve preferred the lemonade.

  89. Oh okay, thank you Regency

  90. Oh, Billy K – go suck a toad. You weren’t listening. Pay attention next time and maybe you can support a winner.

  91. Can someone tell me what I am doing wrong the reason I cannot get onto a website posted on Taylor Marsh’s blog for Hill supporters. Somebody gave camille424.wordpress.com, and when I try it takes me to Taylor’s blogs. Is there a dot in the wrong place or something else. I love Taylor’s site but there are too many disgusting posts by trolls and when people answer their crap, I get tired of having to skip half way down to get any good information. Help?

  92. Lieberman isn’t even a Democrat any more. He won reelection as an Independent.

  93. Regency, that would make a great bumper sticker.

  94. Who did Obama support when Lieberman ran against Lamont. If is was Lieberman, he must OWE Obama. Something ain’t right. What right did Obama have to act so brazenly and pull him away from the Senate floor like he did according to ABC news.

  95. According to boston.com, Obama supported Lamont.

  96. NOT an endorsement but an offer of support to him (you know who) from her supporters (and ONLY if they want to)! How’s THAT for brilliance!

  97. Didn’t we say our girl was a politician. Parsing is king. Heh. I knew we could trust her.

  98. plural: “According to boston.com, Obama supported Lamont.”

    Leiberman in the primary, Lamont in the general.

  99. I was under the impression that Lieberman was a “mentor” of Obama. I can’t stand Lieberman either.

  100. Yeah,edwardian is right, this is what I found.

    After the primary Obama said:

    “Ned Lamont and I share a commitment to bringing our troops home safely from Iraq, to achieving energy independence, to helping all our citizens realize the American dream, and to empowering the American people to reclaim their government,” Obama wrote.

    In the spring, Obama traveled to Connecticut to speak for Lieberman.

  101. Delphyne, I do not care either way….however this could signal some problems for Obama and the so-called “Jewish vote”

  102. UpstateNY: however this could signal some problems for Obama and the so-called “Jewish vote”

    I think that ship sailed with the entrance of Wright, Ayers, Farrakhan, (insert next extremist advisor and/or associate here).

  103. WHEW!! It takes time to get through the comments to the the bottom to comment (did that make sense).

    RD: May need to get a bigger place and a few more bartenders for the Friday night cocktail cocktail party.

    I have gotten three invitations from other sites to come here.

    This place is getting packed and that shows WE ARE NOT ALONE!

  104. God I can’t believe I am saying this, but how about voting for the Green party candidate Cynthia?

    If we all do different things, no message will be recieved. If we all settle on one thing, it will be heard. Voting for McCain, and even not voting , to me are self destructive.

    But if a third party candidate not expected to get more than 1% or whatever becomes a huge wedge, then the message is heard.

    Of course they may come to their senses by August…but if they don’t.

    Of course, I may think differently by then. But right now, I am so angry. Just putting this idea out there.

    PUMA’s think and strategise…

  105. The DNC “cooked” the nomination and the beneficiary of this corruption is Obama. Therefore, I cannot just let that pass. I cannot possibly contribute to the success of this dastardly deed. So I need to maximize the effect of my one vote. I can do this by voting for McCain to win and minus one vote from Obama. If I write in Hillary’s name, that will only be minus one vote from Obama. The same if I vote for the libertarian candidate. So the path is clear to me: my vote will go to McCain. And my resolve to do this gets stronger for everytime some Oborg drones try to harass, mock, intimidate, cajole. THAT is how upset I am and five other members of my family. So that is at least minus 10 from Obama and plus ten for McCain.

  106. I have screensaved the popular vote totals by all 6 counting techniques.

  107. If Hillary is not the nominee, I will vote for McCain.

    I won’t lower my standards to vote for the unqualified Obama and neither will I endorse the corruption of the DNC. Moreover, I trust McCain more than I trust Obama and the craven losers that back him.

  108. I am voting for McCain though I dislike that option very much (same with my husband). That would be 4 votes Obama will have to steal from somewhere else. I feel like we HAVE to stop Obama and the DNC and others and that is the only way.

  109. as you see, if they gave only all the uncommitted votes to Obama, Hillary would still win. Thats why they decided that he deserved more votes from MI than merely every uncommitted vote, and gave him exit polls too.

    In fairness, Hillary’s older and disabled and 2 job workers should have also gotten “awarded” votes for not being able to attend caucuses!

    Seriously, though, this great pdf by a (disabled activist) economist clearly shows the disparity.

    Click to access 2008caucusreport.pdf

  110. dotcommodity,
    Why do you say that voting for McCain is self-destructive? And if you really are an Obama supporter, I can understand that if you can’t persuade a vote for Obama, then the least bad thing is to persuade a voter to throw away the vote instead of giving it to McCain. Because as I have pointed out, voting for a Hillary supporter to vote for McCain means a minus one vote for Obama and a plus vote for McCain–a double jeopardy.

    This is not just a tantrumic decision on my part. I really did think carefully about it.

  111. I don’t think Obama would win here in Wisconsin in a general. Sadly I doubt Senator Clinton would either. Our purple state seems to be getting redder. So what some of us here do could make a difference in November. I won’t be voting for Obama, I know that. But I’m not sure that I CAN vote for a Republican. And I think that to send the message to the corrupt Democratic Party that they need to hear, if Obama is the nominee he has to lose. Otherwise, they will have gotten away with all their dirty tricks and will have no reason to clean up their act.

  112. Felizarte-
    I agree with you, to throw away a vote is to disregard the power of that vote. If we really want to send a message we must unite and vote McCain- The Reagan Democrats are always referred to- we will be the Hillary Democrats.

  113. Oh and as a proud PUMA I just want to thank all of you for being so wonderful. I have been decamping from one favored blog after another for months. Now I feel like I’ve finally found a home. Thanx!

    The Power of Ingrity and a whole lot of pi$$ed off people!

  114. Grayslady said it best:
    The question is: How badly do you want to stop the takeover of the Democratic party?

    Do not throw your vote away by writing in Hillary it might be given to Obama!

  115. the insults are building till Saturday:

    Steve Kerwood NPR couple mins ago…., about on Sat Hillary will suspend her run, ….but will she free her delegates?

    “….but does she know she has lost?”

    They never demanded this of Edwards – he simply “suspended” his campaign!

  116. “we will be the Hillary Democrats.”…I don’t agree, really. The smug DNC will simply conclude America loves RW ers like McCAin and Obama and just field an even more Republican candidate than Obama next time…I am still building my decision…here we are free to formulate our thoughts on this over time. I am following Hillary’s example. Do not make a hasty decision: about voting McCain:

    I don’t think anyone is going to be fishing votes out afterwards and forming conclusions. Its like all those kiddies who voted Nader to protest Gore v Bush as identical. Everyone cared and was shocked. NOT. …

    I am still deciding how to make my voice heard. And if that is the only way….

  117. …Somebody wanted this link? http://hubpages.com/hub/obamacheating

  118. dotcommodity, I understand what you’re saying, but the reality is, a vote for anyone but Mccain is only a half vote against Obama and the Obamabots. I can’t live with myself if I don’t cast a full vote against them, as much as it pains me to have to vote for McCain. The DNC’s solution is always to move further and further to the right anyway. There isn’t a signal we can send that they’ll get, they’ll continue to dismiss their voters and go for Republicans and ex Republicans like Markos unless we stop them. Without women, the Democratic party can’t exist, period.

  119. I still think we should stay and agitate for reform. Come November our votes are our own.
    Obama doesn’t need Hillary’s delegates remember? He isn’t concerned about getting our vote…He wants the republicans to vote for him. The state of delusion.

    However, if any of the elders are still around…I am still only 49…but this crap comes and goes. The ones that stay make a change.

    Jessie Jackson took his little contingent to the convention to make a statement and get changes made. Unfortuantely, we are dealing with the effect of those changes right now. If Senator Clinton would be supportive of the idea, we can also be a huge agent for change. No more caucuses. Only closed primaries. Delegates are apportioned to actually means something, not carrots and sticks or vanity hand outs. Senator Clinton has a contingent of 18 million voters.

    Dean, Brazille and the rest of the ineffectuals are out. To be replaced by clear headed progressives that include everyone, even those” terrible” people in KY and WV. will be real humans beings not someone to be poked at or made fun of.

  120. Also, it occurs to me that the one thing the bots are good at is disenfranchisment. I was thinking maybe I wouldn’t have to vote Republican if it was enough of a blowout, but no, I don’t trust these vote suppressors so I have no alternative as far as I’m concerned.

  121. I hope the McCain campaign will moderate its stance on certain issues and find a decent VP to appeal to the middle majority and non-black minorities. There are a lot of us being abandonned and betrayed by the Democratic Party who only count what they want to count. It’s so laughable… It’s like Lake County, Indiana trying to hold back their vote counts until they could figure out how many they need to make up. Well, the Democratic Party shamelessly did just that in their little meeting for all the world to see. The decent thing in such a close race would be to count Florida in entirety and revote in Michigan. Heck. revote in both states and Clinton would have won it fair and square. No contest. But they settled for the “historical” (read: weak and tarnished) candidate and wish on their lucky star they the voters will forget this travesty by November. Alas, it’sdownhill for them all from here on out.

  122. Little Sister
    I agree with you. We must beware of those who would try to keep us from maximizing our protest vote. The moles or Oborg drones want to half our protest vote just like what they did to Michigan and Florida. The media is quick to say that the Hillary supporters have already switched to Obama. This is of course a lie. The only time those who have hijacked the Democratic party will learn their lesson, is when their pre-determined, appointed nominee loses. Then there would be a possibility of reconstituting the true Democratic Party again.

  123. We all have to choose the lesser of two evils sometimes in this life. In this case, we can blame those who put us in this sad situation with their outright disdain for democracy. See them congratuating themselves on their illegitimate win and see them weeping in November. That is karma and justice.

  124. I about Obama will be winner this democratic party.

  125. 800K …nice

    clintondems.com what?

  126. Is the PUMAPAC,org site connected to the PUMA talked about here? I gather it means Party Unity My Ass. The Pac site calls it People United Means Action – but the goals seem the same.

    PUMAPAC says : Welcome to all the new Pumas! This is our site and our PAC. We are a registered 527 and can raise funds to lobby, agitate, and advertise for our cause. We are planning youtubes, letter campaigns, and advertising to make the DNC listen to us.

  127. Yes and no LAMusing. It was first discussed here and then, one of our posters (Murphy) started it. Neat, eh?

  128. La Music: heh, I forgot, the name was “sanitized”

  129. LAMusing=LA Music

  130. Interesting that when Gore was supposed to have won the popular vote and Bush took the election that people yelled:”Thief!” But, now that an election with a woman and a black man has the same overtones, it’s just business as usual. I’m also wondering, why is it that the news calls Obama’s supposed win “paradigm-changing”? It still looks like politics as usual to me and if anyone was trying to bust a paradigm, it was Hillary.

  131. Hillary was busting the media-choose-the-winner paradigm from the start and finish. Every airhead pundit was huffing and puffing to blow her house down. I believe Hillary fought till she won the popular votes because she wants history to take note that voters do not follow the media’s dictate. She also showed the media’s and the Party’s true colors to the voters. Of course, she knew all along the Party will foil her, but she wasn’t going without winning over the People who will support her when her time comes again.

  132. Liberman, I heard, is starting a pro-McCain group, so I don’t think B.O. won him over.
    I think we SHOULS agitate for those rule changes to undo the undemocratic primaries, etc. etc. But this is entirely consistent with refusing to endorse the consequences of the rules that need changing!

  133. The Rules will not change because they are there so power that be can easily manipulate the nomination process to favor whomever they want. The only way to rescue the party is to get rid of these corrupt individuals at the top. We all know who they are.

  134. I will not vote for Obama. The world is broken, the US is broken and we can’t afford to have a president who needs on the job training. Hillary was the only good option come November. Now that McCain is the lesser of two evils. I will vote for McCain knowing that a Democratic congress will keep him in check, but we need to clean house from the top down and throw all the bums out.

    I can’t believe the foolish dialog from the media that pushed for a quick end to the primary election. An election is a sham if there is only one name on the ballot. I believe that an extended lively debate is good for the country.

    I will push for election reform that eliminates caucases and super delegates, a reform that provieds for a national primary to be held the first Tuesday in June with no results announced until every vote is counted.

    I will also be praying that McCain chooses a good experienced running mate who cares about “We the people” because that is who will probably end up running the country.

  135. WHAT???!!!

    Vote McCain even though his policies are the EXACT OPPOSITE of Hillary’s, the candidate you love so much.

    Vote McCain even though the four votes you lost in Michigan’s illegal election would not have made a bit of difference.

    Vote McCain even though Obama’s election would be historic and would reverse the rest of the world’s fear and emnity toward our government.

    Go ahead and vote for the old white guy who wouldn’t mind staying in Iraq for a century, even though we had no reason to attack, have no reason to stay, and no money and troops left after five years of stagnation. It’s no wonder people accuse this group of racism. A charismatic black candidate with policies identical to his defeated primary opponent is dismissed by the lot of you, and for reasons that border on conspiracy theory and/or mass lunacy.

    What would Hillary want you to do? Would she really perfer another republican in the white house? She has stated that she wants to be VP several times. You love this candidate, but you can’t even respect the fact that she favors her primary candidate so much that she wants to be on his ticket.


  136. ‘I

    You wouldn’t. You need to get off the koolaid.

    Hillary’s election would be JUST AS HISTORIC! Get that through your thick hope ridden noggin.

    I myself am sexist. Because when I look at the big Zero I don’t see a black man. I just see a MAN; a man with no credentials, nothing he’s stood up for, just a blank slate with a big ZERO written on it. And I want a WOMAN as President, especially this competent courageous woman. Period.

    And I’m raging with anger over the way the misogynist arm of the Democrat party, led by the Big Zero, gamed this primary. So the cheaters don’t get my vote, see?

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