• Tips gratefully accepted here. Thanks!:

  • Recent Comments

    Earlynerd on Crowdsourcing -You need to rea…
    Earlynerd on Crowdsourcing -You need to rea…
    Catscatscats on Crowdsourcing -You need to rea…
    Earlynerd on Crowdsourcing -You need to rea…
    riverdaughter on Crowdsourcing -You need to rea…
    Zachary Smith on Crowdsourcing -You need to rea…
    Zachary Smith on Crowdsourcing -You need to rea…
    zrusilla on Clowns to the left of me…
    zrusilla on Clowns to the left of me…
    Earlynerd on Crowdsourcing -You need to rea…
    Earlynerd on Clowns to the left of me…
    tamens on Crowdsourcing -You need to rea…
    HerstoryRepeating on Crowdsourcing -You need to rea…
    William on Crowdsourcing -You need to rea…
    riverdaughter on Crowdsourcing -You need to rea…
  • Categories

  • Tags

    abortion Add new tag Afghanistan Al Franken Anglachel Atrios bankers Barack Obama Bernie Sanders big pharma Bill Clinton cocktails Conflucians Say Dailykos Democratic Party Democrats Digby DNC Donald Trump Donna Brazile Economy Elizabeth Warren feminism Florida Fox News General Glenn Beck Glenn Greenwald Goldman Sachs health care Health Care Reform Hillary Clinton Howard Dean John Edwards John McCain Jon Corzine Karl Rove Matt Taibbi Media medicare Michelle Obama Michigan misogyny Mitt Romney Morning Edition Morning News Links Nancy Pelosi New Jersey news NO WE WON'T Obama Obamacare OccupyWallStreet occupy wall street Open thread Paul Krugman Politics Presidential Election 2008 PUMA racism Republicans research Sarah Palin sexism Single Payer snark Social Security Supreme Court Terry Gross Texas Tim Geithner unemployment Wall Street WikiLeaks women
  • Archives

  • History

  • RSS Paul Krugman: Conscience of a Liberal

  • The Confluence

    The Confluence

  • RSS Suburban Guerrilla

    • Jesse
      Hey Jess, me and youWill swallow the light on the stairsI’ll fix up my hair, we’ll sleep unawareHey Jesse, it’s lonely, come home. Janis Ian:
  • RSS Ian Welsh

    • The Justification For Great Wealth
      Great wealth is great power. If you have money, many people will do what  you want them to do. This should uncontroversial: most of us have spent our lives doing tasks we wouldn’t do if someone wasn’t giving us money. Well, that and being scared of losing everything and dying on the street. Great wealth […]
  • Top Posts

Obama’s misleading coronation – With important UPDATE

[UPDATE] Please read Riverdaughter’s comment below!

No Quarter posted this easy to follow post of the Primary results:

It’s a Tie! (Popular Vote v. Pledged Delegates)
Here are the final totals:

POPULAR VOTE (all primaries and caucuses)
Hillary Clinton: 17,785,009
Barack Obama: 17,479,990

Barack Obama: 1766.5
Hillary Clinton: 1639.5

Currently, 2118 delegates are needed to win the nomination, according to the DNC. A successful appeal of the RBC’s recent decisions on Florida and Michigan would change that threshold to 2210, but that’s less relevant now because the pledged delegate allocations are fairly final (pending completion of state conventions) and, again, neither Clinton nor Obama will have enough pledged delegates to reach either 2118 or 2210.


Now, Barack Obama can “declare himself the nominee” (FOX News characterization last night), he can throw all the big parties and make all the pretty speeches in as many hope-change-unity rallies he wants. He can campaign with vigor against John McCain. (And so can Hillary.) The Clinton-hating Party Clique can “proclaim” that Obama is the nominee; the mainstream media can continue to ignore reality…None of this is surprising, and none of it matters…

Because there will not be a nominee until August. There will not be — there cannot be — any nominee until August. And even the “presumptive nominee” status is a stretch because normally that claim is made by a candidate who has reached the required number of PLEDGED delegates (as John McCain did).

And anyone who thinks that Hillary Clinton supporters don’t understand all of this…is delusional and seriously underestimates the loyalty and passion of her quiet yet determined army (although some of us aren’t that quiet).

This wonderful post was quoted at Corrente and my secret love, lambert, made this perfect comment:

So there we are. It seems that Obama’s been coronated on the basis of press reports that include pledged votes that don’t count yet into Obama’s total. Am I right? If so, well done all!

I’ll second that!

[UPDATE — Comment by riverdaughter]

Hmmm, now we know why the RBC did what the did. She had over 100 delegates from Florida and 73 from Michigan. If he got zero from Michigan and both states had been able to seat with full strength, she could have added over 86 delegates and he would have lost 59. Hmm, that brings her total to 1725 and Obama’s to 1707. Day-um! I wouldn’t concede either.

151 Responses

  1. Also, we can’t emphasize enough how these votes are allocated. Please study this and get it out to any functional Fourth Estate that still exists in the country.


    Direct quotes below:

    Hot off the press and only available at TalkLeft: Peniel Cronin’s Caucus v. Primary report with numbers updated to today, showing how the caucuses, compared to primaries, have unfairly disenfranchised voters. (Background and original report here.)

    Some Findings: 35.6 million people have voted The 37 primary states account for 97% of the vote. The 13 caucus states account for 3% of the vote.

    Bottom line: Clinton’s lead is from 34.5 million voters (97%) in Primaries. Obama’s lead is from 1.1 million voters (3%) in caucuses. http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/6/2/12307/61275 The report itself:


  2. (shudder)

    CB: Your comment reminded me of a fight I had with my brother last night (last night was a horrible night)

    We were just talking — he and I always get along and I said something about Hillary winning the popular vote. And he said, “Oh you can’t count that — there’s no way to compare caucus and primary votes.”

    And I tried to talk about the study you linked to, but he kept cutting me off. And TALKING DOWN TO ME. Like he could possibly know as much about this issue as me.

    Oh — just writing it out is making me so mad again. I finally cut him off and said I wasn’t going to discuss it.

    Even my own (Hillary supporting) brother believes in Obama rules: Any metric that favors Hillary, doesn’t count.

  3. Does it really matter what anybody thinks anymore….the MSM has moved on to the very transcendental role of Caroline Kennedy on the VP committee

  4. Hmmm, now we know why the RBC did what the did. She had over 100 delegates from Florida and 73 from Michigan. If he got zero from Michigan and both states had been able to seat with full strength, she could have added over 86 delegates and he would have lost 59. Hmm, that brings her total to 1725 and Obama’s to 1707. Day-um! I wouldn’t concede either.

  5. UpstateNY — (shaking with laughter)

    I can’t stop laughing. Caroline — such a committed Democrat and strategist!

    (rolling on the floor)

  6. Yeah, Charles, we heard 😦 Let the speculations begin

  7. Charles: suspend != concede.

  8. Here’s some info from That’s Me on the Left:

    Some Findings:

    * 35.6 million people have voted
    * The 37 primary states account for 97% of the vote.
    * The 13 caucus states account for 3% of the vote.

    Bottom line: Clinton’s lead is from 34.5 million voters (97%) in Primaries. Obama’s lead is from 1.1 million voters (3%) in caucuses.

    …In the 37 primaries, Hillary Clinton is up 500,000 votes (counting Florida and Michigan and giving Barack Obama 75% of the votes of Michigan’s uncommitted delegates.) This give her a 67 delegate lead in the primaries. In the 13 caucus states, Obama is up 300,000 votes which has resulted in a 205 delegate lead.

  9. Not Friday!! Friday is my birthday. 😦

  10. kbird, aren’t siblings something else at times…

  11. Riverdaughter: And truly, I think they knew from the beginning that it was best for Obama to exercise the nuclear option in Michigan/Florida. Stave off any momentum Hillary may have gotten.

    Illegitimate election. PUMA!!!!

  12. RD: Does that include rightfully denying Obama any FL delegates for breaking the rules?

  13. suspend
    1. to hang (something) from a high place
    2. to cause (something) to remain floating or hanging: a huge orange sun suspended above the horizon
    3. to cause (something) to stop temporarily: the discussions have been suspended
    4. to remove (someone) temporarily from a job or position, usually as a punishment [Latin suspendere]

  14. Is River Daughter commited anti Obams or is she “for the good of the party”?

    I am just looking for somewhere to blog
    , through all of this, without getting unChristian.

  15. Davidson: no one gets punished. Obama simply loses the delegates that were gifted to him because he did not participate in the primary.

  16. Windy: I’m a PUMA.

    C’mon in. the water’s fine

  17. Well, Barbara Boxer switched her SD vote to BO today. You may recall that she had it pledged to the winner of the CA primary.

    Realistically, BO is the nom ‘cept for an unusual development before the convention.

  18. I will never forgive the Democratic Party and the mainstream media for what was done to Hillary Clinton. The sexism is rampant in both parties, and the RBC robbed her of delegates.
    I also will not ever vote for Barrack Obama. I have a feeling the Republicans will have a field day with him.

  19. RD–

    On the other thread, Regency said he/she had been on the Clinton conference call today and there was no indication she planned to suspend her campaign. This could still all be more speculation on the part of the media. Today is Hillary’s mom’s birthday. Plus she asked supporters to write to her just last night. Why would she do that if she were doing to make an announcement on Friday anyway?

    Your calculations are shocking! This is really vote theft. It’s sickening!

  20. Even today Hillary is ahead of Obama against McCain in the Gallup tracking poll.

    I think the nomination of Obama will be seen as a McGovern-like mistake…that is if Rezko doesn’t make like a piggy and squeal his head off.

  21. BB: I could be wrong about the exact numbers. But remember, he swiped some of her pledged delegates too from various caucuses like Nevada. I think she lost 5 there. Yeah, It’s very shocking but the RBC knew damn well that momentum was on her side and the tally was getting tight so they gave him the extra points.

  22. I think he might have swiped the whole thing. Have we seen a complete list of commitments from Superdelegates as of yesterday afternoon?

    I think he knew he could announce he had commitments in hand and by the time anyone noticed he didn’t (if they ever did) enough people would have switched to cover him.

  23. Thank you river daughter! I am definitely PUMA.

  24. One of my colleagues at work pointed it out to me. He’s the one who suggested that the vote was rigged because it was getting too close and they needed Obama to win so badly that they gave him just enough to make it impossible for her to catch up. As long as she doesn’t concede, there is a slim chance the credentials committee will restore them to full strength. But there has to be a powerful public haka calling for it. It looks like the chicken SD’s are falling into like hoping that we will do likewise and save their bacon this fall. As long as we stick together and don’t yield, there is no reason for her to concede. She’s got some money put away for the GE. She can wait this out.
    BTW, none of my colleagues in the “creative class” are voting for Obama. Every one of them, Democrats and Republicans alike, were going to vote for Hillary in November. He’s a sure loser.

  25. k-bird — all the SDs who declared today declared for BO except Tim Johnson, who kept his word, and a SD DNC member.

    Some who came out for BO today — Lautenberg (NJ), Landrieu (LA), Cardin (MD). Honora, if you’re out there, Sarbanes endorsed BO last night.

    What’s interesting to me are the senators who are holding off (presumably) until Hillary suspends. BIden is still undeclared, and I respect him for that.

    Most of the others are from states that went Hillary’s way like Brown in OH, Reed in RI, the KY/WV govs, etc. I suppose they’ll issue the BO rubber stamp once she suspends.

  26. NYT (adam nagourney,yuck) reporting she will suspend on Friday, and endorse Obama.

    I’m not buying it.

  27. What’s interesting is that all of the state conventions aren’t even done yet. The Tx one is just this week so how many is that to go?

    Just think how many of his or her delegates could fold before National. Anywho I’ll be there.

    I think Rezko is just the start. If Hill’s in it to win it, she’ll suspend. If she and Bill (and I think she takes his counsel seriously) think it’s a loss, they’ll concede.

  28. RD,

    Honest to God, I don’t think I’ve ever been this angry about anything before in my life. Except my anger is in complete control. I have a steely determination to defeat Obama and get rid of every Democrat who has enabled him.

  29. It’s going to be okay. His first big decision after claiming the nomination was to appoint Caroline Kennedy to vet his VP. Her three kids can join in. Maybe ala Cheney she’ll choose herself.

  30. The more I think about the events of this past week, the more enraged I am.

    From Saturday’s blatant theft to yesterday’s deception….

    All to nominate a man who is unelectable in every — why? I just don’t understand. I really don’t.

  31. Charles: You have a full cadre of like minded right here on this blog. We are committed.

  32. BB — (nodding)

    I’m with Lou Dobbs on this — Obama will be my hobby.

  33. She cannot endorse him or its, in effect, a concession.

  34. Joseph Cannon has this up:

    I’ll have a statement up about the video soon. It won’t be what many of you expect, and it may not be to your liking. But it will be of some importance. I have to double-check a few things first.

  35. RD: They have to restore MI full strength or they will guarantee Obama (the current “nominee”) will lose since he cannot possibly win the GE without MI.

  36. Murphy, I think NYT is correct on this. According to the article, even her staunchest supporters are pressuring her. My guess is that the congressional Obots are already claiming that Hillary is “threatening chances for a Democratic victory” in Nov. You know the drill. We saw what happened at the RBC. They’re just determined to push this loser on us. They’ll start calling Hillary divisive, etc. I sincerely hope O goes down in flames.

  37. Davidson — I don’t care if she endorses him (I won’t even blame her if she does).

    I’m not going to.

  38. This is like a sick nightmare of an election.

  39. KB: No, it’s not about convincing us but when you suspend your campaign and then endorse the other candidate you basically concede. Concession means Obama will absolutely be the nominee. So if she endorses him tomorrow, she’s out.

  40. The media was reporting that Hillary’s staunchest supporters were pressuring her during the NH primary. I’ve heard this storry too many times. I’ll wait until I hear it from Hillary.

  41. katiebird: In answer to your question, let me express the answer. He is black. Pure and simple. With Bush the disaster that he is the Dems feel pretty sure to win the WH with any candidate they ran. Why not a black candidate? We prove to the world what liberal minded people we are after 8 yrs of this criminal presidency and purge ourselves of all those years of white guilt. Make no mistake of that pitch “we are who we have been waiting for”. It makes no sense on its face but it plays right into the theme. No matter what, we will support this candidate with any means at hand. We are witnessing the result of that resolve.

  42. Wife will NOT vote for Obama. Cat WON’T either.

  43. I’m going to send out a prayer that she just suspend and promise to endorse the “Democratic nominee” and not mention Obama by name.

  44. She can suspend, give the talk about unity, a dem in november, but she doesn’t have to say it’ll be him. It’ll be hard to parse but I’ve got some ideas.

  45. If she endorses him and concedes, that means she releases her delegates and she’ll lose all her bargaining power on the platform, etc. I can’t believe she’ll do that.

  46. grayslady — Exactly. It’s Charlie Rangel who pushed hard for her to run for the open NY seat. He’s her #1 fan. Her supporters don’t have the stomach for a fight. The sad irony is that her staunchest allies are African American — and they would be put in a very bad position.

  47. @BB: That’s what I’m thinking. She’ll basically be selling out her supporters. Please let it just be a suspension.

  48. They are going to keep right on beating her up no matter what she does. I think they want to destroy her and drive her out of public life along with Bill. It’s crazy.

  49. “Some who came out for BO today — Lautenberg (NJ), Landrieu (LA), Cardin (MD). Honora, if you’re out there, Sarbanes endorsed BO last night”.
    This is an outrage, the people’s votes simply don’t count. I am from NJ and will vote against lautenberg.

  50. Riverdaughter- If I were to invite all of the ‘good’ people at Taylor Marsh’s to come here, would that be ok? Because I think that I just did. I even said that I would have Rico give them a drink on me.

  51. Hello. Posters over at taylormarsh.com recommended this would be a good place to migrate, given the turn of events….so here I am.

  52. hlr–Rangel was quoted in the article, saying he’d support her to the end but that they all needed the end to be more definitive (paraphrasing here). Knowing Hillary, I suspect that she doesn’t want to endanger her AA supporters like Tubbs-Jones and others who are in the House, and have re-elections coming up soon.

  53. I can’t believe she put up that plea for support and would be dropping the race.

    She’s a sticker — and that’s not an empty thing for her.

    She MUST have known the pressure to drop out. She’s faced it EVERY SINGLE DAY since Iowa!!

    Today is hardly any different. And now, she doesn’t have any active campaigning to do.

    FUCK the people who want her to grovel! God Damn it! I want my candidate at the convention with all the respect she deserves.

    Obama stuck his finger in her eye on Saturday — And GAVE her the finger a month ago.

    What the hell is wrong with my party? Are they determined to destroy it?

  54. Hillary think:

    I suspend until the convention. He may implode before then. Supers will change vote due to electability. I get the nod and win.

    I suspend and he wins nomination. He loses in general. McCain wins and serves 4 more years of Bush. Ick.

    I come back in 2012 stronger than ever and by then there will be a different coalition of Dem leaders in place. I announce and I go on to win.


  55. Jerelyn just conceded, even before Hillary has the chance to tell us what her plans are.

  56. BB, I’m not going to look. (closing eyes)

  57. bb: we knew it was coming.

  58. Laura– I saw that. Cardin and Sarbanes both. I was happy to see that Gov. O’Malley was strong enough to stay with Clinton. That is why his bumper sticker will stay on my car. How come Kennedy did not choose our Lt. Gov. as their ‘wonderkind’ Anthony Brown is a bi-racial, Harvard-grad lawyer, Gulf veteran, all around great guy that does not seem to have any ties to terrorists or money launderers?
    River- I would have invited everyone to my house, but I don’t have a house because yours is so sweet.

  59. Wonk the vote

    I am here……….. It’s different thou….
    I miss the running stream at TM…… Or am I on the wrong page?

  60. I was just about to say my last goodbyes to TM.com. Forget it. It was fun, now it’s a war zone. No thank you.

    Here and Corrente is enough for me.

  61. katiebird, I think she’d be willing to endure just about anything herself, but if she believes that her friends in Congress–those who stuck by her despite the “fix”–would be in any way politically jeopardized, I think she’d bow out to spare them any blowback. Oh, it will be billed as a “unity” move, but I suspect that she’s doing this to fly air cover for them. JMHO.

  62. I can’t even imagine all the pressure she must have on her.

  63. The news outlets are reporting that Hillary will drop out this Friday. Is this true?
    What should and can we do?

  64. Honora, of Course!

    and Wonk the Vote: Welcome!

    Drag up a stool and join the party!

  65. RD – I am curious about your name – it drew me in because I grew up at the confluences of the Ohio and Muskingham – small historical college town. I love the name River Daughter – sounds much better than self describing as a river rat! I have posted a little, lurked a lot.

    I am definitely PUMA, plotting PUMA – long time til Aug. convention. Hillary Clinton is so right for America, especially now after the damages done by the present administration. I saw the figures captioned above a few days ago at TL – stark reality. Hillary is so smart – they know a lot more than we do. Anyway, her speech last night was so awsome. She will either persevere or we are going into a very dark period in American history.

    So, I’m going to keep my dreams alive and be here more as I cannot abide any talk of “supporting” (carrying – sorry, I have a bad back and refuse the job) the unqualified other candidate. Bleech!

    Where is Rico when you need him?

  66. Boohall: I am afraid that is it. Just us, poor little us. Welcome.

  67. Hillary’s site is gone…..

    Anyone have an idea of how I can find one of the T-shirts.. I want the one with the pantsuit on it.???

  68. Hillary has said absolutely nothing about Friday. Ignore the media until you hear from her.

  69. katiebird @ 8:27: “This is like a sick nightmare of an election.”

    I couldn’t agree more.

    Halloween election…..who will you dress up as? The “Maverick” or the “Messiah” ? Which is scarier? Dumb or Dumber?

    Doo doo doo doo
    Twilight zone

    Right now, I feel this sinking feeling, like the voices of 18 million Americans, including mine, are going to be left out of the history books, or be a footnote judged in a bizarro light.

  70. UpstateNY

    Were you on TM…….? I must have miss you>>.

  71. grayslady — This race was over the moment BO started getting 80%-90% of the AA bloc. There are too many seats that are dependent on the AA vote both in the House and Senate — actually, the majority of them!

  72. Her site isn’t gone. What do you mean. She still has the invitation up for people to send her comments.

  73. Wonk, they’ve already forgotten we were here.

    My daughters won’t forget the junior senator from New York. That’s a guarantee.

  74. Are there other options besides conceding or suspending? Suspending (without endorsing) seems like the logical move now. I think Katiebird asked this on another thread — what did Ted Kennedy do, for ex., in the time between the last primary and the convention? Did he suspend?

  75. Fuck! She’s going to drop out on Friday. Jesus!

  76. No, Boohall, I only posted there a couple of times a million years ago (three months or so). Although I respect Taylor I could not get into the comments part.

    BB is right, Hillary’s site work well for me.

  77. I don’t understand why her backers were in such a frenzy. They could switch to Obama if they had wanted to and allowed her to remain viable until the convention, especially since she was the first serious woman candidate. Why are they so rabid about pushing her out? Especially after the Rezko verdict?

    We need a chance to win (i.e. have Clinton be the nominee) and many of these fools still think Obama is electable.

  78. Hillary is not dropping out.

  79. bostonboomer

    Please try hillaryclinton.com….

    I hope I am wrong……. But you get trash with a donkey picture.

  80. RD and all,

    So glad to hear that you’re all staying in! I’ve had to leave two other sites as they are now endorsing Obama. It would be far too painful to read those now.

    I also some time ago left the Democratic Party and will vote for McCain even if Hillary is on the ticket as VP! Oh, please, Hillary, don’t!

    Was very disappointed and yes, frightened, to read the article in which Robert Johnson, BET founder, said that he’s had conversations with Hillary in which she has told him that she will accept the VP slot! He is actively working toward that. Did you all see that and what do you think? Can the hurt and anger get any worse??

  81. Arabella, may you be right…I have heard it so many times that I do not care anymore what “they” say. When I hear it from Hillary I will believe it.

  82. Jeralyn just wasted money upgrading her site’s capacity. Without the Clinton supporters, TalkLeft will be a ghost town. What a shame.

  83. BooHall – I went and I got the same message thing I got when I wrote her last night .. for me – it’s o.k. .

    and Hi .. 😉 – you are gonna love it here too .

  84. News from the front:

    “We pledged to support her to the end,” said Representative Charles W. Rangel, a New York Democrat who has been a patron of Mrs. Clinton since she first ran for the Senate. “Our problem is not being able to determine when the hell the end is.”

    At the same time, some of Mrs. Clinton’s most prominent supporters — including Democrats who had held back their endorsements until the primaries were over announced they were now backing Mr. Obama.

    “I was for Hillary — I wasn’t against Obama, who I think is very talented,” said Walter F. Mondale, the former vice president. “I’m glad we made a decision and I hope we can unite our party and move forward.”…

  85. Coldblue–It will be plenty busy with O supporters. Just another blogger boyz site, except it will be run by a woman. I expect the same at TM.

  86. Boohall? ummmhhhh

  87. I don’t buy Cannon’s argument about any eyewitness. So what if he comes up with an eyewitness? Hasn’t it ever occurred to him that people are capable of lying? Cameras record things exactly as they occur, and even then many things recorded are open to interpretation. Human brains do not record things exactly as they occur. I don’t know what Cannon thinks he’s going to prove or disprove by getting a statement from Jordan. If she’s an Obama supporter, would she say anything against MO even if MO said terrible things? I highly doubt it.

  88. thank you Briana

    I will be learning new names…..

    I am beginning to feel at home…

  89. Hillary has said she will accept VP for the party’s if she must.

    It’s a bad plan. I still won’t vote for it.

  90. Boohall,

    I have Hillary’s site open right now.

  91. grayslady — oh ya, the game is rigged.

  92. From NYT article:
    “The passage of time, [Plouffe] said, would heal the fissures and hard feelings that developed during the primary fight as Democrats turned their complete focus to Mr. McCain.”

    Uh, riiiiight. I’m still not over 2000 – what on earth makes them think I’ll get over 5/31/08 by November?

  93. That’s what I don’t understand: he needs her not the other way around. Her as VP won’t fix it for him–at all.

    What a disgrace the Democratic Party is. Absolute disgrace.

  94. UpstateNY


  95. Regency, you’re right, we are invisible to them.

    btw, I love the “Party Unity My Ass” and “Democrats in Exile”

  96. Grayslady,

    I don’t think Obama supporters will be able to accept Jerelyn’s comment rules. Besides her site has been attacked for months on the Obama blogs. She will end up going back to writing about crime and trials.

  97. P.S. I will never vote for Obama even if Hillary is on the ticket. I still want Hillary to take her fight to the convention. I like this site, BTW.

  98. You’ve been my home blog for months –
    my first time to post. Today I’ve been
    watching this story re: Hillary go from
    ABC to KOS to Huffington to NYT.
    The same story shifts slightly with
    each cycle, usually with small but
    telling changes in the narrative with
    lots of hedge words (likely, probably).
    I saw that yesterday, too.

  99. jules,,,,,,,,,,,

    Thank you so much……….. I’m happy now…..

    Have to go get my shirt while I can…

    Tomorrow everyone.

  100. What will save Hillary is that Obama doesn’t have the brains or decency to make her VP. He will only offer it to her if she promises to say no. Then it will be publicized and later, if anything goes wrong for him (when) she will be blamed.

  101. Barack is hoping that by making Hillary disappear he’ll appear a stronger candidate and not like a gigantic McMonDukaKerry.

    He is all of those things.

  102. We will remember in June, July, August, September, October, November, December, January, February, March, April, May, and then we’ll remember it all over again for years to come. The Obama phase of the Democratic party has unleashed something FUBAR on the left.

  103. So now the party officials are gonna try and force Hillary to board the Titanic? Where do we stop this madness?

  104. Boohall,
    What do you mean that HRC site is gone?

  105. edwardian – I love it! Yes! If she takes VP, that is exactly what she’ll be doing – rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic! Oh, please, Hillary, don’t do it!

  106. It seems the “new” Democratic Party is going to yell Unity until they are blue in the face. I say, let’s yell Respect the Voters right back. I am appalled by the Democratic leadership. I encourage everyone who lives in a state that Hillary won to write to your Supers and remind them that they are elected to represent you. If they cannot do so, someone else will. Those who are elected can be unelected.

  107. first post, test

  108. I’m usually a lurker. I’m glad us Clinton supporters still have this site. Our options are narrowing. I will have no trouble voting for McCain. I hope she takes it to Denver. I will be disappointed if she concedes before then. However, I respect her and know she has far more knowledge of the situation than I have. I will respect her whatever she does, but I will never vote for BO!

  109. Hello Marshans, I recognise some names. Glad to be here. I have lurked on this site many times. It’s a good site.

  110. Lakota, no doubt they’ll have her stowed away in steerage. SMH.

  111. Not to BO. The DNC messed up and they will feel it.

    *beam* I’m like Glenn Close in fatal attraction. I will not fucking die.

    Neither will Hillary. She should’ve been president and she may well be, but I can wait.

  112. For the first time I have only one tab open on my browser. Normally I’ve got TL, TM, and here, but now it’s just this one. Wow, that came and went.

  113. (waves to texasdemocrat) Greetings, fellow Texan. 🙂

  114. When I wrote a comment to Hillary on her web site, it was asking her to file as a write in candidate in Arizona, as that is the only way my vote will count in November.

  115. The DNC and the congress who bobbleheaded in support must think that their dismal ratings will pick up as soon as Obama is elected. With their current rating of 16% this means that right now the public only approves of the pages and cleaning staff on Capital Hill.

  116. I wish I was psychic because I’d like to know just how wide a loss margin Obama will experience in Nov. I’m guessing it will be a major defeat. The only question is how wide the spread will be between Obama and McCain.

  117. Regency: I have deleted TPM, HuffPo, Media Matters, Taylor Marsh, Talk Left, Crooks and Liars, Wash Post, NYT. I now have plenty of room in my Bookmarks for TMZ, Perez Hilton, and Roseanne Barr. Nothing like a good housecleaning to make yourself feel much lighter.

  118. bostonboomer, she will be blamed regardless. If she doesn’t kowtow and *beg* to be VP she is being divisive. If she turns it down she is petulant. If she accepts VP and they lose it will be her fault . If she accepts and miracles, upon miracles, they win, she will be blamed for every misstep he makes.

    Regardless of what she chooses, the MSM will say she is disobedient, willful, divisive, spiteful and egotistical. They are too blind and bigoted to recognize her for what she is, a strong woman who has dedicated her life to and worked her tail off for her country. A woman cannot ask for respect in this country it seems, without being called an evil b*tch.

  119. I will never support Obama; no way and no how. Also, I will be registering as an Independent after the way Hillary and we women have been treated by the Democrat Party. The Party no longer speaks to me. I have been a Democrat all of my life (55 years old) and it is with severe grief that I leave this Party. However, I am and I am sure there are millions more of “US”; men and women alike after our disenfranchisement.

  120. Hi to all. I see a lot of Marshans here. Boy, it didn’t take Taylor very long ha. No BO here as well. NEVER.

  121. Fun to see the Marshans here. This place is wonderful and highly supportive.

  122. The Clinton Democrats (lots of women) are a huge block of voters. All we need is leadership and both parties will have to deal with us. Never forget that it is the women who do the ‘work’ of the party on phone banks, making copies, data imput, feeding and organizing volunteers; all the grunt work is done by women.
    They may not miss our money but they will miss our labor. We need to stay committed to our anger and frustration in order to change this party.

  123. please count me in. Clinton Democrat. that’s my new party from now on.

  124. Anyone here going to the Texas Convention?
    I wonder how many delegates Hillary lost because of all this talk of ‘quitting’ the race. It’s a very expensive trip to Austin (gas). Some may back out…

  125. I don’t count on my anger. Just on my amusement. They can roll around on unicycles endorsing this guy and I will still not vote for him.


    As long as HRC is not on the ticket I don’t have to feel guilty about voting against it. We all have to live with ourself in November. I can live with myself. I can’t live with the “Democrats”

  126. I’m going to the Texas Convention

  127. I heard rumor that a Clinton may be coming to the Con, so I wanna be there if they do. I’ll already be in Austin by the time Friday rolls around so I might as well stick around to see. I might get to cuddle Big Dawg, or HilDawg, or Lil Dawg

  128. Hi Regency, I’m running for national delegate. I can’t decide whether to pull my name. I can’t stomach going to Denver for an Obama coronation. On the other hand, I worry I should be there if Hillary needs us.
    It’s so expensive to go to Denver. I just can’t decide what I should do.
    Of Course, I probably won’t get chosen so it won’t matter.

  129. DENVER! Then, if needed, vote McCain!

    No votes for Obama, EVER!

    Hillary cannot be VP. Obam-bam’s a loser and why should she associate with such trash. She is too damn good to be messed up with the crap he will be pulling.

    Let ‘mr. change and hope’ bring back the old-timer Clinton haters…you know ones that the Clintons made famous and wealthy…Richardson, Reich, Brazile…how can there be change with these old fogeys?

  130. Anyone but Obama.

    No unity pony. Obama Dems can shovel out their own damn corral.

  131. Texasdem — On to Denver! Go for it. Just make sure there’s an staunch HRC alternate just in case. It’s early days yet.

    The Repubs have already started running ads against Obama for — gasp — lack of experience. Who’da thunk it?

  132. I’m glad you are here – needed a change from some of our refuge places for Hillary supporters. Sad to see nothing new posted by the campaign on the Hillary Clinton.com Blog sites, but almost 1,000 commenting on their last thread from late last night. Thanks for giving us shelter (as T-storms roll into my area). Believe it’s true – rain is cleansing, or perhaps it’s God’s tears (and our own).

    I just hope Hillary doesn’t endorse him by name (as suggested here), just suspends, and if there’s more stuff to come out about Obama, for Heaven’s sake, let’s see it before Denver! Rezko’s dealings, the Michelle Obama rant – how much does it take for his negatives to be driven to the point where the automatic or Super Delegates abandon him and go to Hillary? Isn’t that the best scenario? Or, as a result of revelations over the summer, his poll numbers plummet, causing voter and delegate remorse for Obama. Pray for something that would get the delegates to flock to Hillary in a New York minute, so to speak.

    Any ideas of other things out there to be revealed? Money trails? Other scandals? (Note: Heard about the gay guy who claimed to have had sex, done cocaine with BO in 1999 – sound legit? Saw he had lawsuits against BO staffers after they tried to shoot down his claim somehow.)

    What about Michigan and Florida? Are they going to put challenges before the Credentials committee, even without Hillary?

    It’s so frustrating with the MSM, DNC and (don’t forget, the Republicans) against HRC when you want the truth to come out. My hope is that if Hillary lays low, all the attention will focus on BO as the presumptive nominee, and it will finally see the light of day. Reminded of the Bre’er Rabbit story, “Tar Baby” – make sense? In other words, “And Hillary – she lay low…”

    Thanks for providing a safe haven, and appreciate your comments. I really needed to connect after a long day at work, where I don’t discuss politics.

  133. I just heard Senator Clinton will “suspend” her campaign. That’s different than conceding, no? Means she can retain the delegates she has and keep her options open until Denver.

    Frankly, I’ve stopped watching the news and can’t stomach the NY Times anymore. Guess I’m on my own with like-minded blogs and the BBC.

    But there will be no support for Obama, not from this voter. And I hope McCain doesn’t screw this up with a right-wing conservative VP. You know, the kind that doesn’t believe in evolution or stem-cell research. Then I’ll have no choice at all.

  134. Hi Liberty. Re: the story you mention, no – that is just trash, I really don’t want this site to ever deal in that.

    I think what is key is how Obama deals with the media and McCain all by himself with no more chance of pushing constant smears against the Clintons to distract everyone from his own shortcomings as a candidate. A lot can happen before August when the votes that count are cast.

  135. Here’s the state of play. Many of Hillary’s prominent supporters are party animals (as is she) and career politicians. Several would face unacceptable consequences if they held out long.

    Hillary does not burn her allies for no go reason. She’ll put them in position where they can continue their careers.

    She’ll also protect Obama from the slings and arrows on the path ahead, as best she can. It won’t be an act.

    At the same time, she’s available in case he implodes, any time up to convention time. It’s a long hot summer.

    This is the high road for Hillary. It’s the best resort for her professional associates. It’s also her best, most realistic path to nomination, should the opportunity develop.

    As for PUMAs, though, we follow our own high roads, unclaimed and untamed, padding our ways over the high wilderness ridges on our big cats paws,.

  136. Hello, d.g. – Thanks for clarifying about the story, and I’d rather not deal in it, either. Your point is well taken about BO on his own against McCain this summer. Only problem: the media is so biased for him now, won’t they just continue to cover for him? Just thought of the term used for people with substance abuse or co-dependency problems as an anology here: The Media is BO’s “Enabler”.

    Agree, a lot can happen, in June, July and August before the convention roll call. They could also decide to abstain on the First Ballot, fall short of picking a nominee, and open up for HRC on the second. At least that’s one scenario if delegates have misgivings about BO by then.

    I don’t even want to think about Hillary being offered the VP spot, and have lost respect for Jimmy Carter for apparently saying she would be a disaster as a running mate (because people would see only both of their negatives? How much sense does that make?) They (Carter, MSM, pundits, etc.) generalize and stereotype the electorate in the most ignorant ways, I believe.

    Thanks for reading, listening. Again, refreshing to hear all these takes on things, and respect your opinions.

  137. I know the media loves Obama. But it also loves McCain. Maybe they love Obama more, some of them. But at least, they don’t despise him openly like they do Hillary. And they won’t have her as a target, nor will Obama’s people be able to run interference by attacking her constantly.

  138. I’m seeking refuge from the TM site which is now the welcoming new home for Obama fans, as if they didn’t already have any

    . See some familiar names here already, hope to see more.

  139. Hi Guy,
    I have left Taylors site tonight as it is turning ito a pro BO site. I may go and lurk to see what is going on but don’t think I will post anymore. I can never vote BO so it will be McCain for me as it will help against BO. He must never bring his baggage into the White House with his nasty wife. So I hope this site will be informative and helpful.

  140. Jimmy Carter has done so much work for Habitat for Humanity which he has a chance of losing so many people, with his pokitical views. MNany will quit being involved.

  141. i don’t think the medial loves Obama. This reminds me of dean/Kerry, when during the primary the media “loved” kerry (who not coincidentally, turned out to be a weak candidate) and hated Dean. the only difference is, Clinton has far more support than Dean did so he was much easier to push out. They’re going to be as much in the tank for Mccain in the general as they were for the candidate they knew he could demolish in the primary.

  142. Hi Peggy Sue,

    I, too, share your concerns about Obama. I have not and will not support him.

    On the issue you mentioned about “suspending” the campaign, you are correct. If she decides to “suspend” the campaign now, she retains all her delegates for the convention.

    Not releasing her delegates is a VERY smart move.

    The votes for the nomination won’t be cast until August.
    Right now, the only think Obama has “won” is more scrutiny.

    I think time is on our side.

  143. It would be

    Clinton 1725
    Obama 1707

    if things are done right . This is the truth they are hiding from everyone. They are hoodwinking us!

  144. At other sites I am hearing waaaay too much of the,”oh I’ll only vote for him if she’s his VP” crap. So voting for a sexist candidate is fine if he makes a woman his VP? What nonsense.

    It would be a smart move for Obama because that effectively muzzles her and takes away any of her power. But the desire to erradicate the Clintons from the party will be too strong I believe.

    If she is not the nominee then she should go back to her seat in the Senate. She can work for the things she believes in.

    Expect fawning voices from all parts of the Democratic Party. GAG.

    Glad this is one place where women remember that we are strong and have power, if we choose to exercise it, and that Real women, Real liberals, Real progressives don’t give in to cheaters, liars and a corrupt party. Even when the party used to or still is our own.

    If we vote with them we say we accept and endorse all that they have done. And I for one, damn well don’t. Fuck the Democratic Party and up with PUMA Power.

    (Sorry for the long-winded rant but I am so angry I’m shaking. And message to moronic Democratic Party, I AM NOT GOING TO GET OVER IT ANYTIME SOON!

  145. That is why I changed my affiliation Monday after 30 years of being a Democrat. I never realized it would be this transparent. It is to the point of who do I vote against not for. Never Obama, I do not care if he came to town and walked on water. I would know it is rigged like everything else he has ever touched. Obama will crash and burn. The republicans will tear him a new one, I will laugh and laugh. I have all day as people in the office talked about Rezko / Obama. Every office I walked by, they were reading about the ties between the 2 on google news search.

  146. […] over at The Confluence gives us the numbers: Hmmm, now we know why the RBC did what the did. She had over 100 delegates […]

  147. […] Michigan delegations been seated in full and in accordance with the primary results that Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton would have been the pledged delegate leader, and thus the presumptive nominee. Only now that Obama has been crowned “The Chosen […]

  148. […] you won’t do that, because if you did you’d be behind in pledged delegates. Riverdaughter did the calculation for us: “[Hillary] had over 100 delegates from Florida and 73 from Michigan. If he got zero from […]

  149. […] you won’t do that, because if you did you’d be behind in pledged delegates.  Riverdaughter did the calculation for us: “[Hillary] had over 100 delegates from Florida and 73 from Michigan. If he got zero from […]

  150. […] Had the RBC not halved the votes from Florida and Michigan and given to Obama delegates who didn’t vote for him, Hillary would also be ahead in pledged delegates. From Riverdaughter at The Confluence: […]

Comments are closed.

%d bloggers like this: