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Once, we were PUMAs

Note: This post was written on June 1, 2008 as a response to the Democratic National Committees Rules and Bylaws Committee, which disenfranchised the Hillary voters by using redistribution of the delegates of Michigan (where Obama wasn’t on the ballot) and by knocking both Florida and Michigan delegates to half voting strength.  The result of this reallocation was that Hillary Clinton appeared to be lagging Barack Obama by an insurmountable number of delegates.  Not only was this untrue as even with the redistributed delegates, the number that separated them was very small, but the Sunday before the convention in Denver started, the Credentials committee restored the delegates of Florida and Michigan to full voting strength.  At that point, the number of elected delegates between Obama and Clinton numbered something less than 20 with 4 of Obama’s delegates coming from Hillary’s earned delegates in Michigan and all of his tiny sliver of victory coming from the other “gifted” delegates in Michigan.

For those individuals who are looking for what the acronym PUMA was all about, do not look to die hard Clintonistas.  Although we thought the party was wrong to have deliberately hamstrung its strongest candidate, the real reason we were PUMA was because of the great offense that the party did against the voters who in good faith went to many primaries around the country to select the candidate they felt was better qualified to be president.  Those votes were nullified by the May 2008 RBC hearing and reduced the primary process to a pro forma show at best and fraudulent waste of state money at worst.  The party split itself and the left has never recovered.  That’s why we said Party Unity My Ass.  There was no unity.  It was all for show.  We also felt that a party that would go to these lengths to give the nomination to a candidate who was this unscrupulous was probably not in it for the best interests of its base.  We were right about that.

Here is the original post:

The Party Unity My Ass un-Party (PUMA) was born yesterday. We already have many new members. But, some of you may ask, what does it mean? How can we make a difference? Before I get to that, I’d like to refer you to one of Anglachel’s latest posts, The Idea of Obama. I think that what Anglachel is describing is a kind of “puppy love” or an infatuation. The situation we have here is precisely the reason why superdelegates were created in the first place. There is a unacknowledged immaturity about the Obama faction that many parents among us will recognize. Here’s the money quote:

The deep problem of Obama’s campaign is that he and his supporters do not want to face the political reality of their own conflicting desires. They both want to sweep to victory in November and they want to purge the party of anything connected to the Clintons, which includes all of the voting contituencies represented by that amazing and talented duo. The failure of the Unity Pony stems directly from that fantasy of majority status without majority support and the political work and compromises that go with cultivating that support. Thus, their model for unity is unanimity through elimination, purging the ranks of the unclean and unbelievers.

They will not acknowledge that Hilalry is a legitimate political actor and reduce her to an inhuman monster and enemy. They will not acknowledge that her supporters have sound, rational reasons for our support, and reduce us to mindless fools and spoils of war. They shift blame for their own choices and actions onto us and expect that we will cater to their whims.

Like adolescents, they insist on making their own decisions and yet expect us to get them out of a jam later. They hate us because of who we are and yet they need us in order for them to get what they want. And the superdelegates are the too permissive parents who are giving in to them because they can’t handle the screaming and guilt trips that will follow if they don’t.

This is where we come in, PUMAs. We will fill the role that the superdelegates have abrogated. It is our job to say “no”. We do not want to lose in 2008. We do not want another four years of Republican rule. We want 4 years of intelligence, competence and courage in a time of what will surely be a very critical time in our nation’s history. Terrorism is still out there. There are two wars going on. Our military is stretched so thinly that our national security is compromised. We have an energy crisis and many families are hurting. Our financial institutions got themselves over their heads. And there is a serious environmental catastrophe at hand in global warming.

Now is not the time to put a love object in office, a weakling who will be entirely dependent on his power elite enablers. Or worse, he may be a dissembler who has barely disguised his contempt for the voters.

There will be a lot of calls for “Unity!”. But let us acknowledge what this really is. “Unity” is a weapon that the party is going to use against us. It is the emotional blackmail of the teenager. “If you don’t let me have my way, it will be all YOUR fault if something bad happens!” “If you don’t get in line, it will be YOUR fault if we lose.”

Don’t give in to this. This is where a parent’s mettle is tested. When the stakes are not high, like staying up too late on a school night, we can afford to let them live with the consequences of their actions. When the situation is critical, we have to be firm. We have to give them choices. We have to tell them that we will not be willing participants in their destructive behavior. We have to tell them that the consequences of their behavior will fall on *their* heads. We have to take away the car keys. Not ground them. Just not aid them in doing what they want. We have to exert our authority.

That goes for superdelegates as well who are failing in their responsibilities. We will hold them accountable as well. If they allow these children to run the house, they will have to live with the consequences, not us.

Barack Obama is a ruthless campaigner who has brought out the worst in the political system but no matter how far he has come, he is a failure. He has failed to live up to core Democratic principles, He has failed to respect the voters. He has failed to disguise his contempt for average, hard working American men and women. And because he has failed in so many ways to appeal to the electorate at large, he will fail the ultimate contest. He will be a failed presidential candidate. We do not wish to be associated with failure while there is still time and an opportunity to avoid it.

We will not be blackmailed into party unity in order to indulge irresponsible people in their fantasies. Our votes belong to us and we will do with them what we feel is best for us, the party and the country.

The action plan for PUMAs is:

1.) Dissociate yourself from the party. Tell them you will not be a party to its self destructive behavior.

2.) Reflect on your values. Read the credo at the top of this site and create at better one. Keep the language general and inclusive. Concentrate on universal truths and beliefs. Avoid wordsmithing.

3.) Stick together. We are powerful as a unit if we do not fall victim to the psychological warfare that is about to be directed at us. Turn off the media. Avoid conversations with trolls. Stand firm and do not yield.

4.) Remember that there is a better alternative. Hillary Clinton is the strongest candidate for the party and the nation. She has a lot of support out there. The nation will rally around her if we let them know we are not giving in. We must not let her concede one inch. Stand firm. Send her your good thoughts. Send her money. Do not give up.

5.) Spread the word.


740 Responses

  1. Okay, PUMA ready, set….hold on….can we please make calls to voters in Montana and South Dakota today and tomorrow. Tuesday night…GO!!!!!!!

  2. Father Pfelger: “America is the Greatest Sin Against God”

    Oh … My … God

  3. WS: ? Where?

  4. 4) I sent Hillary $100 last night.

    I have to work on (5) – Spreading the Word. To Friends, Family and Super Delegates.

  5. kbird: shame on me! 😉

  6. Upstate: Here I think.

  7. Does anyone know if there is anyway to find out how much I’ve contributed? I’m sure I’m no where near maxed out. But, I’m curious about how much it’s added up to.

  8. Thanks kbird! I alos found it at TMarsh soon after I asked. ummmmhhhhh….denounce, reject, denounce, reject. disappointed, change…..hope…..

  9. I need to throw this out there. The pink puma is kinda looking like the PInk Panther, Jacques Clouseau like. White Pumas are really rare….. special

  10. On Saturday, Democracy died. On Sunday, the PUMA un-party was born. I signed up. After many years as a Democrat, I am now officially an Independent. I used to think Democrats were better than Republicans. No longer.

    Republicans may steal votes from Democrats, but Democrats not only steal votes and delegates from other Democrats–they assign votes to individuals who weren’t even on the ballot. A small group of people, calling themselves Democrats, and even Americans, have decided how people would have voted and should have voted.

    That’s why I won’t have any problem voting for McCain if Hillary is not on the ballot, assuming that someone even cares anymore about counting my vote.

  11. Mention of the PUMAs is getting recognition on other sites as well.

  12. PUMAs unite!

    I will not be a member of the New Plutocratic Party a la Chris Bowers. Creative Class, My Ass!!!

    Also – have you all heard the snide remarks the Obama blogboyz are making about how PR doesn’t vote in the GE? Do they even realize that Puerto Ricans, like, live in the States, like?

    Hello, I live in Manhattan. The Puerto Rican Day Parade is the biggest “ethnic” parade we have. The St. Patty’s Day Parade doesn’t even come close.

  13. Just saw this Susan B. Anthony quote referred to on Talk Left.

    I don’t think it’s just women, either, but it’s a good reason to join PUMA. 🙂

  14. Excellent. I love the Plan. We cannot afford the luxury of a negative thought.


  15. Oh, for the love god,

    P arty
    U nity
    M y
    A ss.

    I say that everytime I dare to watch the news. Rigged elections really are a waste of my time.

  16. Its assured that the GOP will splice Wright and Pfelger’s America comments together (should he be the nominee) and then say that he belonged to the church for 20 years. I wonder what the tagline will be, maybe something like “Who is the Real Barack Obama?” or “Can you Trust Obama to be President?”

    Go PUMA’s!

  17. Sign me up for the PUMA Party!

  18. With that attitude you are going to ruin Obama’s chances, you…you…”evilest” inconsequential voters.

  19. I have one set of PUMA shoes already. I ordered another pair from Zappos and a Lacoste pair. Are you sure we can’t be the Alligators??? Then we would have shirts, too. 🙂

  20. I’m in, just sent her money, will make calls tonight and am presently checking to see if an affiliation is even on SC’s registration card.

  21. You forgot the most important step:

    *Vote for McCain.

    The Democratic Party needs to hear, loud and clear, that, as they are so famously fond of reminding us, “you must follow the rules” or bad things will happen. They broke the rules. They rigged an election. They conspired in vote theft and election fraud. They broke the rules, and the only thing they understand is losing (they ought to, they have had enough practice). The party needs to feel a crushing blow of defeat before it wises up. So be it. Vote for McCain and ensure the irrelevancy of these fools forever.

    THis is the thing they forget. If HRC loses the nom or even the GE, she can always come back. Any time she likes. If BO loses, he is done in politics forever. The shiny new toy will be broken and it can’t be fixed, and the children will run off to their corners and cry and clutch their bankies while we get on with the work of rebuilding our country.

    Vote McCain or BO wins, and that is not a good result for anybody.

  22. I have just had the pleasure of letting the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee exactly how I felt.

    About a week ago I received a letter from DSCC regarding the upcoming campaigns and of course it was asking for money. I sent it back with a note that I was an unhappy Hillary supporter and would not be contributing. About 15 minutes ago a representative from the DSCC called but I never gave the woman a chance to speak. As soon as she identified herself as being from the DSCC I told her “Absolutely not. I am a disaffected Hillary voter and if Barack Obama gets the nomination I will be leaving the party. Please don’t call again.” And then I hung up.

    I think all parts of the DNC need to hear this anger. I will probably vote Democratid downticket, depending on the race (I’m in Pennsylvania and there is no senatorial contest this year but my representative, Allyson Schwartz, is a solid Hillary partisan) but we need to keep the Democratic Party constantly aware of our anger.

    I did not curse, I did not rage but my tone of voice and attitude made it quite clear how I felt. And boy, did it feel good!

  23. No, I will not vote for McCain. Cannot do it… will not do it.

  24. Voting for (gulp) McCain is a given. It will pain me, it nauseates me now to think my party has left me no recourse, but I will do it.

  25. Go PUMA – sign me up. I agree about the pink panther. Can we make it another color?

  26. If not Hillary, McCain. A colleague/friend in my office just said to me if it isn’t Hillary…it’s McCain. Frankly, folks Obama isn’t cool anymore. HillaCains are the cool ones now. My friend also said she had a neighbor she didn’t like but has a whole lot more respect for them now that they’ve kept their Hillary sign in their yard all this time.

  27. I wonder what the GOP’s attacks on Obama (if he is the nominee) will do to downticket races? I know Southern and red state Western Democrats will probably run to the hills and do what Childers did. The GOP’s attacks are going to be vicious and its going to rub off on downticket Dems.

  28. Per Riverdaughter: Friends don’t let Friends vote Republican.

    And I agree. I’m a Democrate (even if Howard Dean doesn’t agree) I’ve NEVER voted for a Republican and no phony Democrat is going to force me into it.

    I’ll find another solution.

  29. White… too controversial. Black, taken…. Pink…no. Orange… too Cheeto Place. Yellow…too cowardly. Blue, a posibility.

    I lean Green… so… what do others think.

  30. katiebird: The poopy Huffington Post has this:


  31. ben, I agree. As he becomes more controversial and more like a regular politician, the coolness factor wears off and only the true believers are left. That will affect young people too. Be afraid DNC, be very afraid.

  32. Another reason (if we needed one) to vote for McCain:

    Even if he’s saying all of this for purely political gains, i.e., to get our votes, he’s AT LEAST TRYING!!!

    I’m a Proud PUMA!

  33. lyn5 — good heavens! They publish my home address on this thing.

  34. Thing is…I don’t think it would be good for the country to have a President with no former full-time job experience. That’s a big problem for me.

    I am so pissed at BTD. He keeps inisisting Obama has the pop vote lead by trying to read voter intent. What bs. In a democracy, you count votes, not the votes you wish you had.

  35. Be afraid, Kbird, be very afraid… heh.

    They do not even show me, WTF? I want my money back!

  36. I don’t know if I can vote for McCain. I agree with RD and KB on that one. Actually I’m not yet willing to accept that Obama and McCain will be the choices. I still can’t give up on Hillary.

    After hearing her speech yesterday, I have to believe that she still has hopes of convincing the SDs. I don’t think Hillary is delusional, as the media tries to paint her. To me, she seems like a completely down to earth, concrete thinker. When it’s over, she will accept it gracefully. This woman is an adult. She has demonstrated her maturity thoughout this campaign. I trust her.

    I think Hillary has fought this hard because she really believes this country is in mortal danger. She knows we need strong leadership to turn back the fascism that has crept in during the Bush administration. She doesn’t think Obama will deal with these urgent problems, and neither do I.

  37. re: http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/

    I just checked it out. Not only do they have my home address, they have a damn map that shows exactly where I live!

    It didn’t show up at first just clicking on my city. I had to type in my last name.

  38. katiebird: I agree. I wish the home address wasn’t published.

    UpstateNY: I think $200 is the magic number to be exposed!

  39. RD: I’m sorry, but I can’t go along for this ride. Best of luck to you all.

  40. Upstate-I believe they show only larger contributions. My donations don’t show up either, but I only send like $20 a week. Broke ass single mom paying for kids school, it is all I can afford, but I do it religiously and when I have extra, it goes to her.

  41. BB: If Hill’s not leading the ticket, would you consider voting for a “third party” alternative? That’s definitely one of my choices, should BO be coronated as the Dems “chosen one”. I’m certainly not leaving it blank — my voice must be heard, loud and clear.

  42. I don’t want to vote McCain, so who is our other choice and if we don’t vote McCain, will that increase BO’s chances?

  43. How about “Just Stay Home”

    Put Democrats at all levels on notice: We’re not voting if the ticket is lead by Obama.

    That puts the (elected) Super Delegates on notice: If they want to win, put Hillary at the top.

  44. Kim, there’s always alternatives listed on the ballot – Green, Independent, Natural Law, Libertarian. Though if you live in one of those “swing” states, your vote(s) may prove very crucial in the ultimate outcome. But, for now, I’m wishing Hillary all the best in her efforts to make this DNC (Dang Nutty Cuckoos) see sense.

  45. Green for the color is great.

    PUMA is my new word. Great also.

    Now, Obama must be stopped. Of course Hillary is superior to the other two-she is the one to vote for. If she’s not on the ballot, I am voting to stop Obama. I believe he is totally unqualified. I’m voting for McCain and downticket Dems.

    Hillary is the best for the country, and if we can’t get her now, then in four years.

  46. It is difficult to get into No Quarter this morning. The traffic over there must be very heavy owing to the supposed big announcement at 9am as promised. I did manage to break through and Larry last published at 7:43am with a piece pertaining to the video, saying it is STUNNING and is supposed to have Michele sitting at a conference table with Louis Farrakhan. His judgment is that this is very incindiary.

    Not sure how this is going to play. He made the announcement over the weekend but all he has is somebody else’s version (5 people who have reportedly seen the tape) but he himself has not. If this is nothing more than a tease it may very well backfire as he is not backing up earlier claims, simply relying on second or third hand information. The 9am deadline has come and gone and as I said, his last post is timed at 7:43am. Nothing since. However, the traffic over there is pretty heavy.

  47. Pat, I think that post was the one he meant. I wonder if anyone will ask the former Republican candidates for more details. Or the Obamas themselves if the incident happened.

    But, I’m guessing it’ll be blown off until the video (if it exists) appears….

  48. Hillary will be the nominee and we can all vote for her, so I’m not worrying too much about it.

    However! If she is not, then I will vote for McCain, encourage others to do so, and give his campaign money.

    I don’t want this revolt to be a quiet one. I want us to make noise. Vocally supporting McCain is noise, and it will be noticed.

    I still consider myself a Democrat. The frat-boy elites are trying to hijack the party and then crash it into the ground. Our job is to save the party and bring it back to its good, inclusive, strong values. Check out RD’s growing “Credo” post in the masthead. That’s what the Puma Democrats are here to do. To stop the hijackers and get the Democratic Party back.

  49. Edwardian: I am aware of that, just don’t know who else is running. Barr is on Libertarian and didn’t Nader announce again for Green? Is there a site that shows all candidates?

    Oh I am in SC, which is usually a red state.

  50. I’ve posted on PUMA over at my place. Great, great idea!

    I will never vote McCain, personally, but I believe everyone should vote his/her conscience.

    I will either stay home or vote downticket only if HRC is not the nominee.

    My husband is leaning towards voting McCain, he is so disgusted. And he’s a 55-year-old hippie.

  51. Puma color? I like BostonBoomer’s idea from last night — Gold for Victory and Red for Fighting.

    A gold, reclining puma against a red background — with her eyes open and her tail curled up, ready to pounce at any moment. She just looks like she’s relaxing.

  52. Rich, best of luck to you too!.

  53. Cool, gold and red, not bad at all…

  54. katiebird: He cannot go around making statements with nothing to back it up if he wishes to maintain his credibility. His post from over the weekend indicated that he had some big news at 9am, however, it looks like the only thing he posted on this topic was at 7:43am. Admittedly I am curious but skeptical at the same time.

  55. “This is where a parent’s mettle is tested.”. That is exactly right. Hillary is a parent and she knows that as well.

    If you believe wrote “I will remember in November!”

  56. I would suggest that the puma’s head turn to face the viewer, and that the eyes be a contrasting, penetrating color. Red? Green? Blue on black?

    Let our true progressive hearts and steely determination shine through the guise we have taken.

  57. Count me in…I’m a new “Unaffiliated”…just mailed in my voter registration card.

  58. staying home is a horrible option and we should not encourage people not to vote. Staying home is a cop out. If you don’t vote, you don’t have any right to complain. Vote natural party, just don’t stay home!

  59. Pat, I get what you’re saying. But, what if he’s trying to force the issue. IF those tapes exist (I’d be more skeptical if we hadn’t seen a fair number of shocking videos this year) THEN I’d rather see them this summer rather than fall.

    Come fall, I’m not interested at all — My vote against Obama doesn’t have anything to do with his Church or any rants by his wife.

    BUT if such a tape could affect his already pathetic level of electability enough that it could sway (otherwise inept) Super Delegates to Hillary — THEN I’m all in favor of seeing it this summer.

    SO If Larry’s willing to put his reputation on the line while trying to force the tape into the open — I’m OK with that.

    I would have thought Obama’s total lack of Qualifications, Hillary’s impressive wins in Swing States, Consistent strength in the polls as illustrated by the Hominid Views, Her Depth of knowledge, Commitment to Public Service, Her Grace under Pressure, Rising Reputation and relationship to the only elected two-term Democratic President since Roosevelt would have been more than enough to clinch the deal.

    Since that doesn’t seem true — hell, let’s sling some dirt. It’s summer and I’m ready to play.

  60. Ben, I’ve always voted. I’m just trying to find an argument — even an illustrative argument to take to the Super Delegates. The rumor is that money is making the difference. What is the value of that money if they can’t get the votes.

    ALSO? I’m fully expecting to vote for the Democratic Nominee: that Hillary will win the nomination.

  61. As to whether you will vote for Mccain, or write in Hillary, or vote a protest candidate, or stay home?

    For most, it’s not time yet to make that decision. The difference, however, is between a symbolic vote that will likely not be heard and a consequential vote that will have visible effect.

    I have not presented the strategic case for a McCain vote, and will not unless and until Obama is confirmed as the nominee … but I have such a case. It will carry some weight, I assure you, and it’s not the product of “vindictiveness”, “self-indulgent … surly revenge”. It will be principled, it won’t be “incomprehensible” except to those who have foresworn comprehension, and it won’t be tactical pre-positioning for the opportunity to say “I told you so”. (That, after all, is Meteor Blades’ habit, not mine.)

    When the time comes, the argument comes. For now, just know this: if the Democratic Party nominates Obama, i will support McCain.

  62. I got into NoQuarter and there are people (Obama supporters) now saying that she did not say “whitey”, but rather, Why’d he. . . and was referring to questions she was asking regarding Bush’s policies, as in Why’d he invade Iran.

    But wouldn’t we all agree it is odd that people are already justifying and saying that is not what she said, if there isn’t a tape?

  63. Amen, Ronk.

  64. I would rather vote a gridlocked McCain, than a no consequence candidate.

  65. “Come fall, I’m not interested at all — My vote against Obama doesn’t have anything to do with his Church or any rants by his wife.”

    So true, KatieB.

    Becoming a game of “Your Guy Is So Unqualified, I Wouldn’t Want him For Hall Monitor” – starring G W Bush (R) and Barack Obama (D).

  66. There probably is credence to the existence of the tape, just showing her sitting side by side with Farrakhan would raise eyebrows in itself. But they better be very cautious with how and what they attribute to her wording since we saw what was done to Mickey Kaplan when they tried to insert something into what he did not say. It garners sympathy.

    I am not sure what Larry’s intent is, whether to force whoever is holding such a tape to come forward now or to try to buy time for Hillary in suggesting its existence. Either way, we need to be fully convinced that a) it exists, b) it is as inflammatory as the suggestion indicates. Otherwise it could be helpful to Obama rather than hindrance.

  67. I am going to have to disagree with the rants and his church. At first, that did not bother me, but as this continues, I worry that if there is a Farakhan connection, will his presidency hurt Israel?

  68. amen amen Ronk.

    I look forward to your argument, actually no I dont. But I’m sure it’s a good one!

    I’m not thinking about it too much now because I believe Hillary will be the nominee.

    Kim, that is odd. havent been able to load noquarter.
    Geez! “Why’d he?” Holy smokes! The OFB really are republicans in pigs’ clothing, following Roger Stone’s playbook (deny everything, admit nothing, launch counterattack).

  69. “I am going to have to disagree with the rants and his church. At first, that did not bother me, but as this continues, I worry that if there is a Farakhan connection, will his presidency hurt Israel?”

    But I think Katie’s point is that, at this point, that wouldn’t make a difference in her choice. Because he’s already demonstrated to be a wholly divisive, inept, cowardice pol, all by himself. Any such tapes being unveiled in the fall won’t change that truth for most of us. Simply reaffirm what we already knew.

  70. You know, if you are serious about this thing, you can’t use a corporate logo.

    Besides, you definitely don’t want to be associated with this infamous Puma ad…


  71. I’m with you, ronkseattle. I will vote for McCain if Obama is given the nomination. My state does not allow write-ins, but even if that were the case, I would not do it. Someone had posted previously that in some states the write-in automatically goes to the party candidate. So, I guess what I am saying is be very wary of that option until you know your state’s rules. Regardless, I want to make very sure that Obama and his entourage don’t set foot in the White House. He and his known backers scare the crap out of me; I probably would be terrified if I knew who else was behind him.

  72. Pat, with his story, there are grounds for directed questions:

    To the Obamas: Did Michelle ever appear on a panel with Louis Farrakhan? Have either of them ever seen a tape of the event. Do they know anyone who has?

    To the News Directors of the Various Networks and Media Outlets: Do you (or anyone on your staff) have such a tape in your possession? Have you (or anyone on your staff) ever seen such a tape.

    Like I say — this video stuff doesn’t affect me or anyone I know. But, if there’s dirt to expose, I want it exposed this summer.

    ALSO, One aspect of it does interest me. I was very disappointed in reports that Obama walked away from the Kentucky race blaming an ugly email campaign.

    If he and his managers can’t devise a way to run against slanderous allegations, he’s going to have a terrible time this fall. Because that stuff isn’t going to stop and it affects all of us.

    So I think he still needs some help in dealing with negativity.

  73. In a previous No Quarter posting on the tape, another Obama troll said he’s seen the tape and it was just Michelle calmly talking to someone and quoting an angry AA who said “whitey” and she said it wasn’t helpful. Obama trolls are just BSing?

    Let’s see the tape this summer (if it exists).

  74. Ditto Ben, Count me in Murphy, Ronk

  75. Yeah, according to some link this is the supposed transcript:

    “Once again, the white man keeps us down, what’s up with Whitey, Why’d he attack Iraq, Why’d he let Katrina happen, Why’d he leave millions of children behind. This is the legacy the white man gives us”

    Rumores, rumores, quien sabe? I will wait and see if it is even true.

  76. Ronkseattle – me too.

  77. I do have a problem with what is coming out of that church with regard to its political philosophy. And the fact that he sat there for 20 years apparently “unexposed” to their agenda if you wish to believe his lies.

    That church and those who are affiliated are deep thinking anarchists. Who he chooses to surround himself with is important to know. The “liberation theology” they support may influence his handling of mideast and South American countries as the underlying commitment to this theology is overthrow and undermining governments. That priest is a prime example when he issues statements saying that America is evil. We need to know this information because undoubtedly it has to have taken shape somewhere in Obama’s psyche since he sat there for 20 years and did not appear to be offended when it was preached. He counted these people as “friends”.

    What he carries into the WH is very important since we do not have much else by way of admin or legislative experience on which to judge him. If I have indulged in drinking Coke for the last 20 years it is a pretty safe assumption to conclude I like the taste.

  78. What’s wrong with the Pink Panther. I think we all need to keep our sense of humor. Let us not give in to bitterness…frustration, unhappiness maybe, but let’s not be bitter.

  79. RD, I know this is an un-party, but do you think we should start a PAC? I met some women in DC this weekend who started one to finance the count every vote campaign, and it has been quite successful.

    Roger Stone started the whole PAC’s with “unusual” names thing back in February. Maybe we should fight fire with fire?

  80. I’m all for a PAC. PUMA PAC, sounds good

  81. Katiebird and Pat,

    I don’t buy this video nonsense. Larry Johnson has lost a lot of credibility with me. I’m uncomfortable with a lot of his remarks about race. I don’t need a video to know that Obama is linked with Farrakhan. After all, Obama went to the million man march. I’d like to know if Obama was involved in the planning and leadership of the march too. But I don’t really even have a problem with it if he was. I do think it would make him unelectable from the point of view of most Americans.

    The problem I have with Obama is that I think he has already sold out all his liberal values, if he ever had any. As far as I can tell, the few policy proposals he has made in his book and in the campaign are quite conservative. Before the kool-ade really kicked in, a lot of Obama supporters as DK argued that Obama was just pretending to be conservative and that when I got into office he would suddenly become progressive. I wasn’t willing to take a chance like that. I expect the people I vote for to say up front what they plan to do.

    If it takes dirty tricks to bring Obama down, fine. Politics is a dirty business. But I’d rather help the voters understand that Obama is just a phony con man. I don’t care for Michelle, but it’s not really about her. Obama has some really troubling links in Chicago politics. Rezko, Pfleger, Farrakhan, Obama, and Wright are all closely linked–that’s clear. Obama funneled government money to Rezko and Pfleger. I don’t know if Farrakhan and Wright got any. But Obama is really dirty, there’s no doubt about that. We don’t need video smears. All we need is for the facts to be known.

  82. I sent this e-mail to All-Hands at work today. I don’t know. I might be looking for a job really soon. This place is Obama central.

    To all lovers of Democracy:

    I’m sorry to have to write this, and I hope that by speaking out,
    exercising my First Amendment rights, I will not be fired from my
    position here, but I believe the death knell of the Democratic Party was
    sounded Saturday evening.
    I have been a life-long Democrat, and I have voted in every election
    since 1988. I always believed the Democratic party stood for voter
    rights, so Saturday, I traveled to DC to protest the Rules and By-Laws
    committee that was to decide whether or not the Democratic party was
    going to count the votes in FL and MI.
    We were there to insist on 100% representation. Nothing less than 100%
    representation flies in the face of everything the Democratic party has
    stood for, at least since the Voting Rights Act, and especially since
    the fiasco of 2000. How can you say 2.3 million average people get
    their vote cut in half because of the decision of a few? We fought
    against poll taxes. We fought against poll tests. We fought against
    voter roll purges. Now, many so-called Democrats argue that it is
    perfectly appropriate to punish millions of voters for something they
    had no control over.
    In Florida, the Republican controlled legislature attached the primary
    date move to a bill that included requirements for paper trails of
    voting, something we have been demanding since 2000. The Democrats had
    no choice but to vote for the bill. To add insult to injury, the
    Republican legislature named the bill “537”. 537 is the number of votes
    Gore lost to Bush in FL in 2000. It was a big joke played on the
    Democrats by the Republicans. The DNC fell into the trap.
    In Michigan, both Edwards and Obama took their name off the ballot.
    Obama also filed a petition, so that no Obama write-in votes would
    count. He didn’t want one vote that said Obama. There was no rule that
    required the candidates to do this. In fact, taking your name off the
    ballot is an incredibly Anti-Democratic thing to do. It is the reason
    one is barred from doing so in Florida. Taking your name off the ballot
    is an old trick to delegitimize an election.

    This Saturday, many arguments were made in favor of not counting the
    votes. I urge everyone to read through the transcript, and I challenge
    anyone to defend the arguments the Obama campaign made. In contrast,
    the statements made by Harold Ickes and Tina Flounoy, in my opinion,
    will go down in the history books.

    The final decision of the committee was to seat all the FL delegates
    with %50 of a vote. For MI, Obama was given all the Uncommitted
    delegates, which included all the votes for Edwards as well as the
    others who had taken their name off the ballot. However, the real slap
    in the face of Democracy was that Obama was handed 4 delegates from
    Clinton’s votes. So, the one that played Anti-Democratic tricks was
    rewarded with votes that were not cast for him, as well as votes that
    were cast for his opponent.

    I am speaking to you about this, because you are all learned people, and
    I know many of you are Democrats. I believe are Democracy is under
    assault right now. Our elections would not pass the tests we ourselves
    require of developing nations who are starting down the path of
    Democracy. We cannot allow a few people to scuttle the voice of
    millions of voters.

    I urge everyone to study what happened on Saturday. I think it was a
    seismic event that will have repercussions for many years to come, one
    being the death of the Democrats. One of the pillars of the party has
    been voter rights. The DNC just knocked down that pillar, and I believe
    the roof is about to cave in.

    Work is not the appropriate place to have a conversation about this, but
    I would like to, so I’ll be down in the Europa building courtyard by the
    fountain at 5:00PM today, Monday June 2nd, if anyone wants to discuss this.

    Thank you for giving me your time and reading this e-mail.

  83. I think there are too many rumblings out there, for there not to be some basis in fact for this tape. All the repub pacs have to do is run a loop of MO saying, “whitey, whitey, whitey”. Hell, lets be honest, they do not care if it is true.

  84. I think Dean, Brazile, and Obama colluded in electoral fraud when they granted waivers to some States but not FL and MI, where Hillary won big, and when Obama took his name off the MI ballot.
    That should be the placard at the convention.

  85. BB, I agree one hundred percent, but I would rather the swiftboating happen now, when Hillary can step in, rather than October and we are stuck with him on the ballot.

    However, I will repeat this, Israel is our only true allie in the ME and we cannot send a message that we are electing someone, who is connected to Farrakhan.

  86. Savage politics have a very good article up regarding the importance of the PR win.

  87. Let Your Voices Be Heard Loud And Clear On Corbett 3 p.m. est


    Posted: Monday, 02 June 2008 11:12AM

    No Means No

    Steve Corbett Reporting

    Monday, June 02, 2008

    When the rain came outside a Washington D.C. hotel Saturday afternoon, they did not run and hide their heads.

    Unlike the refrain in the Beatles’ song, they did not rather they were dead.

    When the rain came, they stood their ground and, looking very much alive and well, shouted “Count every vote” and “This is what a feminist looks like.”

    The protestors, mostly women, knew that when it rains it shines – but only if you refuse to let a stretch of bad weather drive you deep into the shelter of a party that would rather exclude you anyway.

    This party is the Democratic Party and Saturday’s meeting of its pompous rules and bylaws committee did more to dampen support for the mainstream party than any Republican ever could.

    The party elite told the protestors, by and large Democrats, that they would decide what is best for them.

    The protestors explained that they were not slaves and would decide their lives for themselves. By that they meant that they would also decide the party’s future. By that they meant they just might quit.

    “I didn’t quit my party,” one young woman later explained. “My party quit me.”

    Without them, many analysts believe the Democrats cannot win the White House in November. Without them, Democrats will rally around a flawed candidate who will further divide the party into the haves and the have-nots. Without them, the party will go down in females, rather than in flames.

    Men have aligned themselves with the protest as well.

    I, too, stood in the rain.

    Joining in the common cause, I, too, threw my voice at the universe.

    “This is what a feminist looks like,” I howled.

    Nobody questioned my support for equality. No one doubted my resolve to stand in support of Hillary Clinton, the strongest candidate among all those who campaigned – including Barack Obama, John Edwards, Bill Richardson, Joe Biden and the rest – to win the nomination to represent Democrats against the Republican war machine.

    Now only two remain – Hillary the white woman and Barack the black man.

    The protestors believe now more than ever that the deck has been stacked all along in Barack’s favor. A combination of white liberal guilt, money, power, deceit and sleazy Chicago politics helped Barack buy his way into the process.

    The party bosses must know that their man will likely lose.

    So why support him to the end?

    That remains the most troubling unanswered question.

    What is known, though, is that many Hillary supporters, mostly women who have been loyal to the party all their lives, feel abandoned. Abused by a disloyal party whose leadership is made up mostly of men, they have finally had enough.

    The separation is about to commence.

    And the divorce will be messy.

    But when the split is complete, their freedom of choice, the liberation of walking out, will renew their strength in themselves.

    Even if Barack becomes the nominee – and I’m not convinced that will happen – these protestors will know forever that they have power they never before experienced. The power to say no constitutes freedom in the face of a society that expects you to say yes.

    No means no – even in the political arena.

    Time has almost run out for party bosses. But they still can change – even the women among them who continue to do the bidding of men who promise them everything but never deliver.

    Men ands women superdelegates can still admit that Hillary is the best person for the job as she fights on until the national party convention in August in Denver.

    Once there, the bosses can award her the nomination. If they do, the Democrats are closer to equality than ever. If they don’t, the great gender divide gets wider.

    Standing in the rain outside the hotel on Saturday, a critic couldn’t help but sense the power of believing in a principle.

    Truth is as principled as it gets.

    And the truth sometimes hurts.

  88. BB, I pretty much agree with you. Except that I never had any feelings about Larry Johnson’s credibility — I don’t know anything about him at all.

    I’m secure that my support for Hillary rests on her accomplishments as a Public Servant and campaigner. And I’m secure in my feelings that Obama is unelectable based on his total lack of qualifications (the word “experience” doesn’t begin to describe his problems) as well as his lack of commitment to liberal issues I think critical (health care for everyone & social security)

    But I’m finding that I kind of enjoy the Obama Show and Larry Johnson’s site is a front row seat for that.

    It’s my guilty pleasure and I’ll keep quiet about it from now on….

  89. Paul_L at corrente-wire brought up the idea of some sort of lawsuit or legal action against the DNC and RBC for its violation of its own rules. It didnt get much enthusiastic response, but I like the idea of the idea.

    Maybe something for a PUMA PAC to do? Charge the DNC with electoral fraud? Maybe not even in a court but in a youtube video or ad?

  90. Did Steve Corbett pen the slogan for Pumas?

    No means No!

  91. Seriously people, voting for McCain is NOT the answer. Particularly if you are a feminist or believe in equal right for women and other minorities. Vote Green. Cynthia McKinney is a WAY better alternative than McCain. Sheesh…I shouldn’t have to be telling people that.

  92. Farraakhan, Rezko, Ayers, Wright, Pfleger, Axelrod of the Daley machine, and the fine gentlemen ambassadors for Obama on the internet–don’t judge a candidate by the company he keeps! Everything has changed! The Democratic Party under Nancy Pelosi has thrown most of the voters under the bus!

    How did Obama “deserve” the Most Liberal Voting record in the Senate? (That designation is the kiss of death, however, it didn’t help Kerry except among a small sliver of the voting pie.)

    After one year Bama was bored and has let the citizens of Illinois (and lobbyists) fund his campaign time. (BTW, Hillary won a Grammy for her reading of “It Takes a Village” so Bama’s not the only “rock star.”)

    Investigative reporter Evelyn Pringle says that a fifth grader with access to the internet could find out all of this stuff about Obama.

    Pringle’s Follow the Money: Final Chapter – Curtain Time for Obama is the best of the series for summarizing how Obama, especially as Chairman of the Illinois Senate Health and Human Services Committee, abetted Rezko’s influence peddling schemes.

    The Illinois Health Facilities Planning Act had to be passed–and this is where Obama, Rezko’s #2 man, played a role.

    BTW, Rezko was counting on Gov. Blag. becoming President and that Patrick Fitzgerald–the Elliot Ness going after the pervasive Chicago/State of Illinois corruption– was going to be “replaced.”

    Tony Rezko is a private citizen. Therefore, the evidence presented in the trial focused on his influence over officials in getting members appointed to the Boards. Prosecutors did not discuss how the legislation got passed that enabled the Planning Board to be set up in a way that allowed for the appointment of members to rig the votes to begin with.

    That part of the scheme will likely be detailed in future indictments, probably starting with Blagojevich. Blagojevich signed the Illinois Health Facilities Planning Act with an effective date of June 27, 2003. However, before he could sign the act, a bill had to be passed by the Illinois House and Senate.
    As discussed fully in Curtain Time Part II, Obama was the inside guy in the senate who pushed through the legislation that resulted in the Act.

    Obama was appointed chairman of the Senate Health and Human Services Committee. The minute the bill was introduced, it was referred to his committee for review. The sponsors of the bill also served on this committee with Obama. Within a month, Chairman Obama sent word to the full senate that the legislation should be passed.

    On May 31, 2003, Senate Bill 1332 passed and specified that the “Board shall be appointed by the Governor, with the advice and consent of the Senate.” The legislation reduced the number of members from 15 to 9, paving the way for the appointment of a five-bloc majority to rig the votes.
    The corrupt members appointed included three doctors who contributed to Obama. Michel Malek gave Obama $10,000 on June 30, 2003 and donated $25,000 to Blagojevich on July 25, 2003. Malek also gave Obama another $500 in September 2003.

    –the complete article can be read at –


  93. P.S. Are those Puerto Ricans also racists hillbillies?

  94. BB, I agree with pretty much everything you say. I watched the Wright fiasco unwind from a distance. Some of the TUCC remarks really offended me, but I cant be a hypocrite — most things that happen in churches/mosques/synagogues offend me. Radical religious associations have an impact on politics. I wont argue or even fight that. A more secular, inclusive, and compassionate society will be more easily built if political leaders are forced to stay away from radical, fundamentalist religious institutions of any/all denominations. Romney, Huckabee, Obama — they actually have a lot in common, and BO should share their fate, NOW, before it is too late and we’re stuck with him in November.

  95. kbird: “It’s my guilty pleasure and I’ll keep quiet about it from now on….”

    Nah….we all have guilty pleasures. I do not know much about Larry either (He sounds quite conservative, as far as I am concerned) I find the comments section quite annoying for the most part, but every now and then, it is interesting to visit.

    Probably, IF it even exists, “the tape” so-called-scandal will amount to nothing….I just do not know where Larry and his commenters get all their info sometimes.

  96. From what I can determine out of what is known in that tape is this: She is supposed to have been in discussion along with Farrakhan regarding the Bush administration in handling the war and Katrina. She is reported to have said either: “whitey” or “why’d he?”. Not having seen the tape or the context of the remarks it is difficult to assume either one. But apparently there is a tape since people are chiming in about the actual description of her wording.

    As a result of this “bombshell” they are over there ripping each other apart depending on which side you are on. It seems ridiculous to be arguing something that most of us have not witnessed. But I am with katiebird, it is amusing to sit back and watch. Credibility on the blogs his being debated as if there was much out there to begin with.

  97. The more this whole tape thing drags on the less I worry about it. I was really expecting some resolution by 9:30 this morning but only received a more strongly stated allegation.

    The more I think about it; the less I want to think about it. Maybe the tape is a strategy to encourage Clinton to keep fighting (in the hopes that the tape is real). Maybe the tape is faked and when it is shown to be faked BO will receive a bump from it (and future immunity from such attacks). Maybe the Republicans are holding on to it for an October surprise. Maybe the rumor is being circulated to cut the legs out from under BO. Maybe the tape is real and in the hands of some entrepreneur who just wants to cash in big. Maybe…

    The longer this tape “exists” but remains inaccessible; the more people are going to perceive the tape as “just politics” or as just some sick product of an American tendency to assassinate the character of their political rivals (or their wives). Obviously, any tape of Michelle Obama saying stuff in the vein of the recent comments is probably going to hurt BO. The longer BS speculation keeps up the less it is going to hurt.

    Some of the stuff that Pfleger and Rev. Wright have said that gets looped endlessly on TV is already “extreme.” People that want to believe Trinity Church is the moral equivalent of some hate group, already believe it. I am not sure whether this idea is approaching a saturation point or whether the camel’s back is one straw away from breaking.

  98. Darth — dont try to nader Obama into office. If the idiot bosses put up a loser, I’m not taking any chances. It’s McCain all the way.

    And dont condescend to us — we know what our feminist/progressive/equal rights values are.

    And women are NOT a minority. majority, majority, majority.


  99. Addendum….voting for Cheney’s energy bill written by lobbyists behind closed doors is not progressive! (Of course, being Obama, he pretends he didn’t vote for it on the campaign trail–it is not as if this country has any real reporters who have a platform that can expose him to a wide audience.

    Concurrent to starting a new party, we have to transform the Fourth Estate. It is impossible to have a real political party of the people when the television media is controlled by a half-a-dozen corporations. Whatever candidate best serves their corporate interests is the chosen one.

  100. Katiebird,

    We don’t have to be quiet about it. No Quarter is on the blogroll after all. I enjoy the purple prose over there too. I just think Larry should have revealed what he had heard without all the big build-up. To me he has credibility as a former DC insider and I admired his support of Valerie Wilson. He did a lot to get her case discussed in the corporate media.

  101. Murphy, if you vote for McCain then I hope you plan on taking responsibility for the things he does while in office. He is NOT a viable alternative. You may know your feminist/progressive values, but if you vote for McCain then you certainly aren’t voting with those values in mine.

    That said, I’m outta here. I’m literally down to about 2 blogs any more that I can even stand to read. Can’t stand the sexism of the vast majority of the blogosphere and the people saying they’ll vote for McCain are driving me out of the rest of it. *sigh*

  102. Upstate,

    I don’t read the comments over there either, but I like to read the posts. I used to read Susan Hu at DK and Booman. I think she is a good researcher. She sometimes goes over the top, but she doesn’t post falsehoods, as far as I can tell. I sometimes click on the recent comments on the front page if they look interesting. I can’t read the comments at Taylor Marsh either. By the time I get to either of those places, there are already hundreds of comments, and I just don’t have time to read through them.

  103. I’m in WA. I think any vote against obama will have to be for McCain here, I think alternative Green Party vote or other write-ins are good for red states or deep blue states, but I think WA can swing if the opposition goes to McCain.

    I look forward to RonK’s assessment – if obama is on the ballot.

  104. Go, Pumapower. I hope it is okay to cross post this whole article, RD. You should see this morning’s paper. Also, you can learn more about the race-based target marketing in a cool little post here:


    These are four bloggers with a ton to say. Each of their voices is unique, and are they ever angry. Whew.

    The Party is split. Hillary could heal that. Hold that thought. They will never convince any of her supporters over to the other side, too much damage has been done.

  105. Darth, people are saying a lot of things these days. Hillary is not out of the race yet, is she?

  106. Darth,

    Are you familiar with the electoral college system? I certainly hope so.

    I live in Massachusetts. My vote will only be important if there is close race here. I’ll decide my vote when the time comes. But if Obama is a clear winner in my state, my vote for someone else won’t influence the race at all. The same would be true if Obama were losing my state by a lot. People who live in very red states aren’t going to affect the resutls either. The only states that really matter are the swing states–like OH, FL, MI, PA, NJ–states that Hillary won big in the primaries. That is why I still think there is a chance she will win the nomination in the end.

    It’s way too early to be lecturing people about their votes right now. Anything can happen between now and August and anything can happen between August and November.

  107. I like that I can now read the comments and now go craaaaazzzzy. I would rather vent positively here, than waste that anger somewhere else.

  108. Ditto Ben, Murphy, Ronk, Denise, Briana. Let’s face it, the Obama-Jugen and the Uber-Republican DNC have taken over the Democratic Party. The only way to restore democracy to the Democratic Party is to teach them that bullying will not be rewarded and for them to learn that to win we need to be a party of inclusion.

  109. Wait, I meant NOT go craaaazzzzy.

  110. Sign me up! I am ready to vote McCain, if need be. But he has to court me first. Why on earth would I be loyal to a party that told me I had sand in my vagina and was a racist for asking what the guy’s qualifications were exactly?


  111. Larry Johnson broke a cardinal rule of journalism — if you can’t deliver, then don’t promise.

    Yeah, he’s pretty purple over there. As angry as I am, sometimes I need myself a little red meat!

  112. Hope is not a plan, DV.

  113. The Democrats have been taken over by the Pseudo-Democratic Huffington-Kossian-Aravosian wing of the “New Democratic Party”.

    The ACTUAL Democrats need to take it back. Can’t do that if Obama wins. They will be all powerful.

    Yeah, I’m a McCain voter, nuclear option here. The guy lived in a box for 5 years. Who deserves the job more, the guy who lived in a box? or the guy whose never had a full-time job.

  114. Larry didn’t promise the tape, just news of it. I think he told us what he knew. He knows quite a lot but knowing and not showing does help him.

    I’m indifferent to it. I’m doing what I can to get the Nom for HRC. She needs to do damn well tomorrow.

    Help us out if you can guys. Call and write!

  115. Kim: heh, we understood.

    BB: I agree. I used to read TMarsh in the old days. Now, more often than not, I do not. The comment section gets impossible to read (plus some comments make me very uncomfortable). TL is very interesting for the most part. So far, Riverdaughter is a good balance for me.

  116. UpstateNY, I read TalkLeft, but not anything that has the word Unity in the title. I stopped reading those a month ago or more. To me it’s just a softer version of WWTSBQ.

  117. Can we agree to never use the word unity in our postings? I get dizzy when it appears.

  118. Roger Stone did say he thinks a network has the tape. Has there been instances when Stone was rumor-mongering on national TV?

    And how could Obama trolls from the internet have seen the tape (and remembered the words) if its supposedly under lock and key (or heavily guarded) among the Republcian inner circle and/or a TV network?

  119. FYI, for those expecting to SEE the tape, GET REAL. Read Larry Johnson’s description of what is ON the tape. That is the story.

    Who do they think they are?

    Oh excuse me for thinking that the tape was the story. You are right, I really would rather hang on your every word instead of seeing something that, you know, anybody outside of blogs cares about. I was so distraught all weekend; I just sat around wringing my hands wondering if it was true.

    Thank god salvation came at 7:43 AM. Larry knows five people who have seen it? Who even needs a tape when some guy on the internet says he knows some people who have said that they have seen something? Nobody of course, the real story is the story! Best story ever!

  120. Teresa, I agree with you. McCain’s bio will win him the Presidency if Obama is the nominee. Any fault in his policy or his past can be forgiven (by average people) by pointing to his heroic time as a POW.

  121. I’m still hoping for Hillary but I just don’t think that the powers that be in the Democratic Party will allow her to win. It’s as much about “purging” the Clintons and the Clinton Democrats as it is about Obama. I will vote for McCain if Obama is the nominee.

    I have never voted for a Republican in my life. And it is could make a difference here in Wisconsin. But to do otherwise is to say that what the Democratic Party has done is fine with me. And it’s not.

    If it’s all right to vote for Blue Dog Democrats, those that stab their own party in the back and side with Republicans time after time, then I can vote for a Republican.

    PUMAs for An Honest Democracy

  122. WS,

    Roger Stone is rotten, dirty right wing thug. He is the one who started that anti-Hillary organization with the initials C%$T. I do not think he would have said what he did on Fox News without some information to back it up, but you never know. It is also possible that he is spreading this around in order create more chaos in the Democratic nomination process.

  123. kbird: The Unity talk does not bother me. BTD is quite an interesting blogista. He is lately trying to push a unity ticket (well, not lately, really). I honestly do not know if it is even viable/desirable.

    I was always quite open where I come from politically in this blog. If Hillary is not the nominee I will not vote D, this year (my first) and instead will move farther left (I am quite comfortable doing that and in retrospect should have probably done it in 2004).

    Anyway, for me is easy to say this. If Hillary does not make it (we’ll see), I can always vote for her as my senator (that is if the DNC will allow the evilest of vile people to remain in the ballot).

    You can be assured that come November I will vote but not for O (I still have my diginity 🙂 I know I will be held responsible for all kinds of horrible things by the O’s supportes :deaths in the Middle East, Conservative Supreme Court, Global Warming…you name it)… then again, maybe O will win and bring lots of possitive change without my help. Maybe it is a generational thing and I am just to myopic to see the future.

    Sorry for poor sp.

  124. Guys, try and find any newsmedia accurately reporting this simple fact about the MI decision on Saturday:

    “The Committee awarded to Senator Obama not only the delegates won by Uncommitted, but four of the delegates won by Senator Clinton. ”

    Go forth, and see if anybody got this right. Bring back your quotes.

  125. WS,

    I’m fine with the story just being the story. That can do a lot of damage in itself, since so many seem to believe the plausibility of such a tape.

    Roger Stone is a freak show. He will say ANYTHING, absolutely anything. He is a low-down dirty rat. Liar, exaggerator, pervert, blowhard, and without a conscience. that being said, I dont think he’s a hypocrite.

    But he would definitely lie about a network having the tape. Didnt he say he “thinks” a network has the tape? easy kind of lie to get out of.

    He has no reputation to defend or protect so I dont trust anything he might say.

    I kinda admire the guy in an inexplicable way that probably reflects badly on my morals.

    Check out the profile of him in the latest New Yorker.

  126. what you said BostonBoomer!

  127. Okay, I have to do this, I have seen it, I have googled it, no answer, just wtf is WWTSBQ?

    Kenosha, voted Republican once in 32 years and it was for a Judge who was hard on DV abusers and I still only registered as an independent, but that was worth it, she threw the bums in jail and I think this will be worth it.

    I did it the first time to stop women from being abused and damn if it doesn’t almost feel the same now. We have been abused, ignored, maligned and disenfranchised.

  128. The PUMAs are prowling and growling!

    I agree with everything Riverdaughter said. Fuck Unity and Fuck anybody who tries to blackmail me into voting for Obama in the GE.

    Party Unity My Ass!!!

    The last straw was the MI ruling. The DNC/RBC are a sham. Vote stealing and vote changing is not what this party represented and if that’s what’s going to be the new “Democrats”, I’m gonna let them play themselves in the GE because when they lose , I’ll be dancing on their graves and spitting on them.

    As we speak, I’m 1/2 a person, 1/2 a vote here in FL, but they will get a full 100% head-on PUMA from me as a result.

    NOTHING, and I mean NOTHING will make me vote for Obama or support any RBC member and/or Superdelegates that supported this soulless, bland, chameleon-like Chicago empty suit run by con artists and thugs.

    Voting for a cheater is not Party Unity. It’s cooperating in the hijack of democracy.

    ANd BTW, Roe v Wade ain’t going anywhere. If Bush couldn’t get rid of it, McCain sure as hell won’t.


  129. Hi guys – Please check out Jeralyn’s latest at TalkLeft.

    It’s the map AND the math.

    Absolutely amazing.

  130. Saturday, May 31, 2008 – “The Day The Music Died”. Sign me up . Power to the PUMA.

  131. WS: Yes. In my case I was previously in the undervote for president category. However, I feel that undervoting or 3rd party voting is a “half vote” against Obama rather than a full vote against him.

    After the travesty last weekend, the whole notion of “half-votes” sticks in my craw. I’m now a full-blown McCain voter.

  132. WWTSBQ = Why Won’t That Stupid Bitch Quit

  133. Oh that is ugly, no wonder I couldn’t figure it out.

  134. Remember when sane, fair and rational people were trying to set up a re-vote in Florida and Michigan. The Obama camp came out saying that since Michigan and Florida were under sanction by the Justice Department’s Voting Rights Division, a new election could not be allowed unless the Justice Department said the new primaries were ok. Of course, there was not enough time for that. So how is it that the RBC has the authority to come up with an allocation plan w/o the ok of the Justice Department. Somehow, voting by prepaid return ballots was illegal, but throwing the votes of real people out and making up a result out of whole cloth is ok?? I want my democracy back! PUMA

  135. Bottom line: Clinton’s lead is from 34.5 million voters (97%) in Primaries. Obama’s lead is from 1.1 million voters (3%) in caucuses.
    From Jeralyn at talkleft

    If that statistic does not tell the story what will? SDs, it is still not too late. People have spoken. Don’t let Brazile, Dean, Pelosi, and the media choose the weakest candidate.

    Upon reflection I was thinking 69/59 was bad enough and then I heard that the Obama contingent on the committee was ready to vote for 50/50 and had to be dissuaded. Who the hell are these people?

  136. Kim,

    WWTSBQ = Why doesn’t the stupid bi&%ch quit.

    To learn more, read older posts by Lambert and Vastleft at Corrente.

  137. katiebird, on June 2nd, 2008 at 11:55 am Said:

    BB, I pretty much agree with you. Except that I never had any feelings about Larry Johnson’s credibility — I don’t know anything about him at all.

    I have been following noquarter for a while and they tell it like it is and they have put their blogging career on the line and have not played it safe like some of the other pro-Clinton bloggers (who go on to profess they will still vote for Obama after knowing and writing everything they did about him — I don’t understand that at all). To the contrary, Larry and Susan have picked their side for good reason and are sticking with it. Larry speaks to how he became a Clinton supporter and seems sincere in that and I am willing to trust him more than those others who want to play it safe. Being a Washington insider, I think he is well connected especially among republicans.

  138. Jeralyn’s argument on primary v. caucus is very strong stuff and the SD’s need to understand it.

    I am so grateful to riverdaughter for her strength in battling the Obama crap. He has NOT won anything, and he CAN’T unless he actually gets the SD votes he currently has lightweight promises of when the convention votes. To go to the convention as the true Presumptive Nominee, all 2118 delegates MUST BE PLEDGED delegates. Obama does not have this number, and he cannot get this number.

    I refuse to drink the Obama koolaid. People, that is what they are serving when they try to get Clinton supporters to think about a unity ticket with her as VP, and to resign ourselves to the “fact” she’s lost.

    She has NOT lost. I will continue sending the energy of my thoughts to a Hillary Clinton Presidential nomination, followed by a GE win for her in November.

  139. Not voting for BO IS a vote for MacD so I shall write in Hillary Clinton on my ballot if she is not the Primary winner so my vote will be noticed.

    Remember how the Dem rulz gave BO votes in MI in part because of non counted WRITE IN’s?

  140. Taylor Marsh has given up on Hillary (again.) This great news. Taylor has a habit of giving up five minutes to early. Every time Taylor has pronounced Hillary dead, Hillary turns a big corner.

    I have to remember I’m a PUMA now. No more Taylor (which way is the wind blowing today?) Marsh for me.

    GO PUMA!

  141. Here is how I feel. I am permanently in Clinton’s corner and I feel she is the most qualified of the three candidates we have now. If she is forcibly let go because of stupid fools in the Dem party, I want to focus on defeating the least qualified candidate, Obama who was also responsible for Clinton’s ouster — his qualifications aside, I am truly scared of all the people supporting him and would never want to give power to such people. Once he loses on NOv 4, I want Clinton to come roaring back on Nov 5. My loyalty lies with the best and most deserving of the candidate and not the party.

    PUMA, you bet!

  142. Gee, I know it’s ARG but check this out:

    Democrats May 31-June 1

    Clinton 44%
    Obama 48%
    Undecided 8%

    South Dakota
    Democrats May 31-June 1

    Clinton 60%
    Obama 34%
    Undecided 6%

    It’s men in the mountain west to Obama’s rescue again. What’s up with that?

  143. Melanie — I’m planning to call tonight.

    Thanks for sharing this info — I was afraid it would be like calling Oregon all over again. This make it look good.

    Unless the numbers for South Dakota are switched?

  144. Arabella Trefoil, on June 2nd, 2008 at 1:25 pm Said:
    I have to remember I’m a PUMA now. No more Taylor (which way is the wind blowing today?) Marsh for me.

    I agree. My theory about TM is that she wants to play it safe.. She has lost me too!

  145. Wait a minute (unspeakable thought)

    What if Hillary one either — or both — of those states?

    Hasn’t everyone assumed these would be Obama’s?

    Damn those voters! Don’t they know the fix is in?

    Can the DNC call another Rules meeting. There might be more adjustments necessary.

  146. Ryan: “Thank god salvation came at 7:43 AM. Larry knows five people who have seen it? Who even needs a tape when some guy on the internet says he knows some people who have said that they have seen something? Nobody of course, the real story is the story! Best story ever!”

    The story just crushed the credibility of LJ, and the video. If they ever do try to surface a tape, it will be considered “doctored” just like the one of Carville. It will get no mileage, and No Quarter has some damage control to do just to get their credibility back.

    Bad move, and not helpful to Clinton.

  147. I agree, I don’t think the tape matters, whether it exists or not. Obama is already DOA in the general, between his lack of experience, lack of any real base, lack of any real substance, McCain’s appeal, Ayres, Wright, Rezko, etc. I personally could not care less about the whatever Michelle said. The only way such a tape could possibly be useful would be to finally wake up superdelegates to the fact as much as the media has protected Obama from all of these scandals, they’re coming back in the fall with a vengeance if he’s the nominee. However, once again, they should have enough common sense to figure that out anyway.

    I can’t stand McCain, and I’d rather vote for McKinney, but since in a McCain Obama matchup one of them is going to be elected, I’d have to give serious consideration to the most direct way to stop Obama. It’s not going to matter anyway, it’s not like a McCain-Obama matchup would be close.

  148. pm317: Many of the Clinton sites are now going soft and drinking the koolaid. Playing out the scenarios of a “unity” ticket with Hillary as VP is nothing more than changing the mindset and giving up.

    Solid Hillary supporters know this isn’t over, and that she can still win. Staying in that mindset is critical to helping her reach that success.

    TM, and TL are both getting too soft. I’ve jumped ship on both of them so the “unity” song doesn’t play in my head.

  149. When you consider the margin of error and the undecideds, Montana is well within range for a Hillary win.

    Would Obama still make a victory speech that night if he loses both states.

    The New York Times characterizes Obama as Wheezing into the Convention — if he loses everything after Oregon, he’s on life support.

  150. Now is the time ladies and gentlemen to make one last appeal to voters and to the superDs. Many will be deciding tomorrow. HRC and co. are hustling and we’ve got to help.

    I just talked to HRC HQ in Virginia and they’re working their hearts out. Everyone will be with Hillary tomorrow. Hundreds of people who have worked with her and supported her.

    It’s time to change minds and let it be known that we came to win it–and it was WON!

  151. Time for a PUMA Pep Talk.

    It ain’t over until the lady in the pants suit says it’s over.

    We cannot afford the luxury of a negative thought.

    Time is on our side – yes it is!

    (If edwardian is still around, we’ll sing it for you.)

    GO PUMA!

  152. He’ll win Montana. I’ve learned with these polls it’s all about who will never vote for a given candidate in a primary. Hill’s wouldn’t vote for is higher than Obama’s in MT(men in these states, like Oregon are going 2-1 for BO). In SD, his number of won’t vote is much higher than Clinton’s, over double. That usually tells the story.

  153. murphy: “Maybe something for a PUMA PAC to do? Charge the DNC with electoral fraud? Maybe not even in a court but in a youtube video or ad?”

    It would be great if PUMA’s could get an ad made that shows a huge crowd of people to represent just how big the deflection will be from the democratic party should Obama steal this nomination.

  154. Melanie: I’m not sure what you mean?? Are you thinking both MT and SD will go obama?


    OT, but Bo Diddley has died. A moment of silence, please, for one of the greats of rock ‘n roll.

    Thank you.

  156. rojo7449, on June 2nd, 2008 at 1:37 pm Said:

    Anglachel had a superb essay on legitimacy and not unity. I am never for unity if there is no legitimacy. He is an illegitimate nominee (IF he becomes that), especially after the RBC and MI vote. As I said in my previous post my loyalty is to the best qualified and deserving candidate and not the party.

  157. Oh, Bostonboomer, I’m so sorry.

  158. Melanie — I believe MT is on its way to becoming an OR — latte liberals are making their way there. I understand it’s a gorgeous state. Second, from a distance, I get the idea that the politicians (Schweitzer, Tester) try to project a ‘rugged’ image — I think that tells the story.

    If she wins SD, well, then wow. Daschle has the entire party machinery out in force for BO. I read that Herseth-Sandlin, along with a ‘women for BO’ group are canvassing and pitching his ‘son of a single momma’ story. What a wonderful end to the primaries if she takes SD. Many articles mention that the Clintons have strong support on the reservations, but I don’t know what their numerical strength is. We’ll find out tomorrow night.

  159. jjmtacoma, no, not at all. I am saying his wouldn’t vote for is very high in SD, which typically means he won’t win there. Her’s is higher than his in MT, which usually means she won’t win there. That is what I am saying.

    The bots on myDD are saying he polled so poorly because his fans were all at his rallies over the weekend.

  160. This blog will expire if it is not expanded (I am 100% Hillary but want the Hillary blogs to stay around since we have lost so much of the blogosphere conversation). So, I’d like to start a conversation about where to go from here.

    Could we begin with those things we want most to change?

    For example: the corruption of the Democratic Party, media bias, blogosphere bias, the economy (we after all have a particular point of view), misogyny, women’s rights as civil rights, electing women to office, etc.

    Also, expand the stable of posters.

    I’m not interested in eliminating our pro-Hillary stance but expanding the conversation a bit. I’m a constant lurker but rarely comment, so I make this suggestion humbly.

  161. Oh, gotcha! Thanks for clearing it up for me. I stay away from MSM so this is my primary info source anymore – plus comments are getting so big/long I don’t have time to crawl around as much.

  162. Wow. You people are stunningly sore losers. How about growing up just a wee little bit?

    I admire Hillary – and I’d love to see a future for her in the party. But you people are killing that.

  163. kenschell,

    We’re not sore losers — we’re determined winners. The voters have been voting overwhelmingly for Hillary since March.

    If the DNC is determined to lose, they can do it without us. We’ve all held our noses to vote for plenty of losers.

    Why should we do it this year. When we could be voting for the most impressive candidate we’ve ever had?

    Oh, Donna B doesn’t like her. hmm.

  164. I admire Hillary….you people….wow, wow, wow

  165. KateNC: TL has 2 (well, 3) posters.

  166. Wow. You people are stunningly sore losers. How about growing up just a wee little bit?

    Alright, but what kind of winner does this make you?

  167. kenschell,

    This isn’t a game. As much as the Media wants to make it into a sporting event.

  168. Kenschell: Ahhh, you’re worried about Hillary’s future. That is so sweet. But we’re killing it by thinking that Democracy is more important than Obama? LOL! You are an Alice in Wonderlander, I’m sure.

  169. “Wow. You people are stunningly sore losers. How about growing up just a wee little bit?

    I admire Hillary – and I’d love to see a future for her in the party. But you people are killing that.”

    Well let’s see. Break that down into Part 1 and Part 2. You got Part 2 right as per the new “sweetie” talking points for the day. But you need to work on Part 1.

  170. Just got this:

    Also needed…a half dozen people at Montana Craig’s list to flag Obama posts.

    Here’s the deal. Craig’s list sways the vote. Let’s stay on it.

    Also, rule is, any post with the word “flag” gets flagged and don’t forget to scroll to the bottom and look for the gray box that says “send note”..click it. Not all of them have it.
    Please check SD Craig’s list occasionally. It seems to be under control

    The trolls are cutting and pasting the Politico and Huff post and Kos phony articles into political section of Craig’s list..Thanks for you help..people do listen to Craig’s list because it’s grass roots info.

  171. Thanks for spam-ifying the troll!

  172. I hope we can find someone suitable to coalesce around if Clinton is forced to concede and support Obama. I will support her to the end, however, I will not vote for McClain, or Obama. No way, no how. I have four grandchildren whom I love too dearly to do that foul thing. When he started hugging Bush and kissing his ring, I lost any measure of respect I ever felt for him. Surely another answer waits to be discovered which will allow us to honor the candidate who has so inspired us. I cannot imagine that voting for McCain will make her happy. If everyone became a solid rational voice that everyone could feel pride in supporting — I don’t know, maybe draft Gore, vote green party, something that makes sense of who we are — we won’t just go out in a cloud of dust. It has been mentioned that there are probably a lot of voters suffering from “buyers remorse” that could also be encompassed in our new thrust for real democracy. I will keep reading this site, because I want so much for someone to find the right answers that we can carry forward proudly and with vigor.

    Another thing, we have to do away with the caucuses in every state. It is just a way for the bullies to intimidate others. I was sitting next to a very nice, professional looking AA couple, when two AA men, also appropriately dressed, stood in front of us. I glanced up to see if they were going to ask me about something, because they were holding papers. They, however, were not checking anything on the papers; they were staring at the lone two AA people sitting on the HRC side. I glanced at the couple, then back at the men, who stared at me and then moved on. I said, “Oh, my goodness” to the couple; they said, “Oh, we are used to it. We get that all the time, but we just think Hillary is better for the economy and that is what we need right now..” I just commented that they made a tough decision that took some courage and left it at that. No, caucuses are not very democratic.

    Just one more thing, they have to take Clare McCaskel off of tv. I almost threw my coke can at the screen before I could stop myself. She infuriates me.

  173. kenschell

    Are you campaigning for John McCain? I’m collecting up reasons to vote for him. You just gave me another.

  174. Samantha,

    I guess it doesn’t help them any that their candidate appears to don more W-like characteristics everyday. Yikes! So is it really any wonder that they’d seek to pervert more “qualified” terrain?

  175. PUMA POWER!

    Don’t ya just love it when oppo trolls or blogcloggers worry about us bitsy little “sore losers”? Init just too sweet for words? (gagging)

    The way the freepers, aka first cousins to Obamatrolls, worried about Al Gore and John Kerry being “sore losers” just for wanting all the votes counted.

    IMNSHO anyone that doesn’t fight for every vote is a loser. Everyone that gives up, gives in, and concedes when there is any chance at all is a loser. A candidate that doesn’t fight for every vote that people cast for them is not worthy of those that voted for them. Let the mediamorons, the blogcloggers, the Obamatrolls, the freepers and all other lower forms of life rant about “sore losers” like 12 year olds.

    Anyone that fights on and never gives up may ultimately lose, but they are never losers. And blogcloggers that troll websites insulting voters who they may ultimately need to help their candidate and who are in the same party, or were in the same party, are more than losers, they are fools.

  176. kenschell:

    Your candidate is an ILLEGITIMATE one. He did not win his votes. He was appointed them. Jush like Bush.

    I spit and PUMA you and you candidate. You and your candidate do not believe in democracy. I am a FL voter and I am not 1/2 a person. “Uncommited” should have gone as just that and voted at the convention. THAT is democracy.

  177. Another thing Kenschell: we are not sore losers.

    We are PUMAs and we will fight till hell freezes over and still fight on the ice. (h/t to Pat Buchanan, GOD I never thought I’d see myself agreeing with him ever.)

    We believe in one person, one vote.

    We believe that Hillary will walk away if she lost fair & square, but the fighting hasn’t been fair. The RBC Obama appeasers proved that.

    We believe that caucus numbers and primary numbers should not be mixed becasue they are not measured the same way.

    We believe that our party is not listening to the popular vote – the most sacred and valid metric of our democracy. Remember Al Gore? Yeah, he won the popular vote too. And what the DNC/RBC is doing is no different than the Supreme Court.

    And we believe that we are tired of being bossed around by party leaders and the media who cavort to inexperienced, elite, power-hungry Chicago dirty politics because he’s a man.

    We did not desert the Democratic party, they deserted us, the rank-and-file Democrats who year after year vote for the guy they say to vote for. NO MORE.

    So leave before this PUMA does some neck snapping.

    me too………new register!
    thanks for the solidarity!

  179. psychological warfare that is about to be directed at us

    Somehow, I don’t believe that’s an issue, if it were the racial grievance card Obama played or constant victim hood drama blame name calling all together now, would have kicked us into the Obama column by now …. add Obama is not qualified to be President of the United States and add that the Democratic Party, against the will of their won base faked the Primary results to aid Obama. Main reason it will never happen is I will not accept and will work against electing another Party puppet like George Bush. Now what any SD’s in my voting path needs to understand is that I view Obama’s lack of ability, radical ties and divisive behavior as a threat to good governance therefore my country and their vote for him will be considered in that light and against my will and interest.

  180. Hear, hear. Sign me up.

    I will not yield to the bullies.

  181. Hey Jona, I believe we have decided to vote for the next president – that’s all. Blame away if you feel better.

  182. UFA, I’ll be glad to show you how to join:

    Ahem… whenever you hear or see an Obamabot say “We need party unity” scream it or type it:

    P arty
    U nity
    M y
    A ss!!

    And then you are a member of the PUMA un-Party.

    Go ahead, try it.

  183. Lambert, I always read your posts, thank you for the caucus rundown. They are extremely un-Democratic and the popular vote should not be even tainted with this awfuly biased and corrupted means of delegate snatching.

  184. “If McCain wins it will be your fault,”

    it will be all your fault.. you horrible horrible person.

  185. Jona, the “Democratic: party abandoned its principles.

    We did not.

    One person, one vote.

    If your name is next to the vote cast, it belongs to the candidate.

    Al Gore would have been finishing his term had Democracy not been corrupted, and Obama and his cabal have corrupted Democracy.

    We shall not stand for it anymore.

    Obama is no progressive. His stance on green issues is a farce, voting for the Cheney Energy bill. He is not for Universal Healthcare, his education plan is copying the CEO run charter schools. And on & on.

    Don’t tell me that I’m not a democrat – you and your Chicago thuggery political gasbag is not a Democrat and never will be.


  186. Don’t forget two headed babies

  187. Even Republicans are willing to settle with whatever candidate they are given by the process. Why do you Clinton supports haveto be such extremists? It makes no sense and really reflects poorly on you.

  188. Ah, well, that’s your opinion. I disagree that it reflects poorly on us to stick to our values.

  189. Jona, I will never vote for anyone who supports stealing votes, and that is exactly what Obama’s supporters on the RBC have done. I’ll vote Green Party if Hillary is not on the ballot. Oh, and by the way–PUMA!!

  190. #
    Jona, on June 2nd, 2008 at 5:25 pm Said:

    Even Republicans are willing to settle with whatever candidate they are given by the process. Why do you Clinton supports haveto be such extremists? It makes no sense and really reflects poorly on you.

    ROTFLMAO…if not being a mindless sheep makes me an extremist so be it.

    You’re probably one of those “democrats” that voted for Bush Jr. so he could “finish what he started” and because “well we haven’t been attacked since 2001 so he must be doing a good job”.

    This is why this country is in the state it is…the complacent bleeting masses that accept worthless leadership, cause, “everybody else is doing it”

    Three cheers for followers!

    Hip hip, go away!

    Hip hip, country is in disarray!

    Hip hip, what a shame!

  191. Oh yeah…I’m want a party of this P.U.M.A thing sounds fun!

  192. KENSCHELL, SWEETIE, no one has lost, so there is no sore loser award to give out just yet.

    You must not be in one of the multiple demographics that Obama and the DNC have tossed to the side, insulted, lied to, treated like abused children, and refuses to tell what it is he’s going to do for/to this country if we were to just brush away all they’ve done without them acknowledging it, apologizing for it, and doing something to prove they won’t do it again. Otherwise, you would know this is not about Hillary Clinton.

    She is the most qualified candidate. We support her and we know the only way to repair the party, and the country is with someone as capable and responsible as she is in the Whitehouse.

    OK, hon?

  193. WOW…I just found this site, thanks to NO QUARTER.

    It’s wonderful to read commentary from people who feel the very same way I do.

    I will NOT give up on Clinton. I will also not vote for that empty suit, Obama.

    And I WILL send the Senator some more money. But the DNC won’t get a frigging DIME from this Proud PUMA.

    Let them ask the Obamapunks for their beer, pizza and pot money. That crap will get old pretty quick with that bunch, I’ll bet.

  194. Jona, on June 2nd, 2008 at 4:49 pm Said:
    SM, that is rediculous. Obama and his “cabal” (I’m assuming you mean his campaign?) did not “corrupt Democracy” by any rational measure (at least anything I’ve seen so far does not fit the bill as rational).

    So you don’t think Obama, anyone associated with his campaign, or any of his supporters are progressive? At all? Really?

    If that is what you and others really see as the truth I have to ask myself how you can fool yourself so much? And even if there was an ounce of truth in what you say (and I’m not denying that Obama’s platform is not as progressive as Clinton’s) there is still a pretty large gap between Obama’s platform and the Republican’s.

    Let’s face it, if McCain wins we are certainly going to have at least four more years of war, growing economic inequality, environmental degredation and general rightwing policies. ANd why? Because Obama’s platform doesn’t seem as progressive as Clinton’s? I’m sorry, but that sounds worse than foolish to me.

    Jona, 8 years of Bush makes a girl grow some thick skin. So 4 of McCain will hurt, but it won’t kill me or other PUMAs.

    See, we are informed longtime Democratic voters, activists, supporters, etc. We are very active in the political process and have probaly lived long enough to know the past so we don’t repeat it in the future.

    I, like other PUMAs, have had it. Democracy was RAPED by your cadidate and his former Republican/Green party/Libertarian supporters.

    Don’t bother. Please. We know Obama & where he stands on everything. That’s why we chose Hillary. She’s more progrssive and covers all the bases. Universal Healthcare, Education, Foreign Relations, Security, Diplomacy, Domestic Reform, Green Energy (Solar/Wind/Geothermal – NO Nuclear!), on and on.

    So don’t bully us. We are battered and bruised by people like you and your candidate, those that believe that if you aren’t with them, you are against them.

    Guess what? You are right. We are not going to take it anymore. Bring on McCain. We’ll write Hillary’s anem in, we’ll vote for a third party candidate.

    Because we will not particiapte in the rape of democracy any longer. And THAT’s being a TRUE Democrat.

    I’m a PUMA Democrat and I approve this message.

  195. Congratulations riverdaughter, it looks like PUMA power is going to be a big success. And that’ s good for Senator Clinton, that’s good for us, and dammit, it’s good for the country. This is a country built by rugged individualists not a bunch of robots.


  196. I’d like a tie-dye puma. or a puma in a pantsuit.

    and shouldn’t our logo include…lipstick on a puma?

  197. Changed my party affiliation today from a democrat of 30 years to unaffiliated and I feel so clean. I no longer have to defend the indefensible actions of the RBC and the DNC.
    Puma party for Hillary !!!!!!!

  198. […] this. Which is why many of us are highly skeptical, to say the least, of calls to unity (hence, the PUMA un-party ), especially when they’re followed by threats (Roe v. Wade!!!) or insults if we don’t […]

  199. I am PUMA!!!

    No to the O!!!

  200. PUMA.

    Indeed. ‘Bout time.

    The DNC crossed the line on Saturday for me. They obviously don’t give flyin’ F about who votes for whom. So I’m sure they won’t mind when I vote for McCain.

    Never thought I’d say that. But I never thought the Dems would be the party to endorse voter fraud.

  201. With y’all’s permission, I’ll put your logo, slogans, etc on ‘gear’ at cafepress tonight.


    It will be nice to have some stuff with color images. So far all I’ve been able to make is black and white.

  202. […] strongest supporters have even found a cute name for her new “non party” PUMA. PUMA stands for Party Unity My Ass. It has been interesting watching some of Hillary’s […]

  203. […] Posts The PUMA un-Party is bornMonday: PUMA Power Quitting? She’s WINNING — Why would she quit?Ready to Rumble?Rocky Mountain High: What happens in […]

  204. I think the PUMA should be purple. Or blue…or silver.

    I like the pink but agree the Panther’s got that color, so the PUMA should be another.

    Green’s a great color but makes absolutely no sense.

    Purple is royal (royally pissed off? heh) and purple is the color that crosses and combines red/blue party designations.

    The purple could be bright, or it could be a more muted slate shade.

    Anyway, I was kind of surprised purple was left off the list upthread!

    I’m feeling the PUMA!

  205. Count me in! I wasn’t going to vote for McCain, yet since this has become so ugly and that the thought of the Democratic Party Pandering to white guilt and thoughtless latte bubble blowers, I must not think that by not voting, I actually voted for Obama. I am voting for McCain to make a strong statement to the Democratic Party. – You are not the boss of me! You serve the people. Why should we be afraid of our government, it should be afraid of our vote and voting for McCain and hopefully overwhelmingly will let them know exactly who is the boss of who.

  206. I received an email from my local Dems. It is below my answer.

    Dear (name omitted to protect their privacy),

    I find your call to unite the democratic base after the Obama campaign and Obama himself arrogantly and disdainfully trashed Hilllary Clinton, not to mention the Obama surrogates who twisted every opportunity and facts to suit the needs of Obama disingenuous.

    His complacency in the entire matter and even his refusal to acknowledge the hate mongers of his church as detrimental to the democratic party is shameful. Now, when we the Hillary supporters are disenfranchised by the put downs from Obama himself and his supporters it is a haughty disregard to ask those very people that are not being respected to join ranks with those who ridiculed and trashed the only candidate with substance that will be able to challenge McCain. Of course now that he knows he can’t win without not just the “latte” Democrats but the working class and the Latino vote, he has been pedaling his snake oil to these groups without success.

    It is up to Obama to heal the grievous affront his arrogant presumption and division has created. If he can in the light of all the unfortunate gaffs and lies he has come out with and unite voters, and not as the “pundits” and media have mentioned that Hillary Clinton is the divisive force here, then he needs to do just that. On the contrary it is his arrogance and complacency when it would have benefited the party for him to step forward and denounce the lies against her by his very people he cravenly remained silent.

    Party Unity My Ass (Puma)!

    Michelle L

    A copy of this answer has been sent to the DNC.

    —– Original Message —-
    From: (names deleted to protect their privacy.)
    Sent: Tuesday, June 3, 2008 2:27:30 PM
    Subject: Most Important Thing about Convention

    Dear Delegate or Alternate,

    As we make our way to Austin for the State Democratic Convention, let’s
    remember our top priority – to win the November elections.

    Right now, we are in the process of selecting who will lead our
    Democratic Family to victory in the fall. The head of the family
    changes from time to time, but the family stays together.

  207. WHOOEEE! Count me in as a PUMA. I was a regular poster on TalkLeft. As TL will tilt towards Obama now, I needed a new home. Hopefully the PUMAS will march in Denver. We should all get Puma shirts and march in solidarity for Hillary Clinton.

    F**k Barack Obama and his friend Donnie McClurkin. Any well-informed, self-respecting homo would NEVER vote for that tool.

    Nobama loses two votes with me: Latino and gay.

    Great website. Look for me t to be here a LOT!


  208. Anybody up for a million-woman-march on Denver? The gals over at Hire Heels are fomenting one. I’d love to raise some hell in a PUMA shirt with my sister pumas.

  209. […] action plan for PUMAs is: 1.) Dissociate yourself from the party. Tell them you will not be a party to its […]

  210. PUMA,
    If you are an actual, organized party, I’m interested in joining, as I’m part of the “old coalition” of the Democratic party, though the “newer coalition keeps asking me for money & support.. The poisonous actions of the DNC killed any loyalty I had to the Democratic Party. It’s been taken over by a coalition of leaders determined to get Obama elected regardless of what most voters want, and they don’t care how they get it done.
    It’s time for a genuine third party that can nominate a candidate like Hillary who represents the true principles of Democracy and stands up for the middle & little folks. If you’re that party, I’d like to join.

  211. Patrick,

    Just hang out here at the confluence for further instructions. We are discussing the Rezko verdict on the latest post. Join us!

  212. I am so mad at the DNC and it members. I will vote for Nobama even if Hillary is the VP. I will be voting for McCain because the DNC has disrespected my and others values. I don’t trust him with our national security. Nobama is NOT a new politician. Read about how he won his IL sentate seat. He played old Chicago politics. Nobama does not have my values. If Hillary or McCain belonged to an anti-black church for 20+ years they would have be kicked out of Wash . Look what happened to Trent Lott for a comment. Nobama will not get my vote. The DNC has gone too far. I’m an Indy now. McCain will only run 1 term. He will get my vote this Nov. Hillary “2012”!! Don’t let the Dems scare you with Roe vs Wade. We’ve had 3 republican presidents in recent history and Roe vs Wade is still alive & well.

  213. Cool. I’m there.

  214. Although i have great disdain for an Obama Administration, m
    ygreatest disdain is for the DNC. Under Dr. Dean and Donna Brazile, they have systematically, and with purpose, dismantled the party that i have been a member of for the 20 some odd years i have been of voting age.

    To me, it is less important to worry about an Obama President than it is to worry where the DEM party plans to take itself. My responsibility, as i see it, is to fight against the type of disenfranchisement the DNC is promoting.


    My goal, as i see it, is to fight against the
    disenfranchisement the DNC is supporting. PUMA sounds good to me.

  215. My big screen TV is in the shop for repair and I am watching a small television. Last night I landed on one of the cable news channels and saw they had worked up a bio on BO like they did for Bill and Hill in the past. But the strange thing about this one was the title of the program, I know I got it right because I kept reading it in disbelief.

    It said, “THE MAKING OF A COM MAN”. I think it was MSNBC. I could not watch anything about Obama even with that title. Decided they screwed up their graphics. Unless it’s destroy BO time.

  216. OldYellowDog
    Brought this video to TM today..

    The fun begins………

  217. Rezko news by way of UK

    look out


  218. I will not vote democrat in November if Hillary is not the nominee. When this all started I felt that I would. Who knew way back then that I’d see a team leader of O’s campaign threaten rape of a blogger right on Hillary’s OWN SITE and then when I reported it to B.O.’S campaign nothing was done. Two months later the team leader was still there. The media was in full swing woman hating mode, the DNC sat silent, and so did B.O> who was benefiting from it. Then came the bros before hos shirt, and all the rest.

    I was in D.C. for the rally. I sat as the party played fast and loose with democracy. I saw how caucus states were pre loaded with more delegates and how B.O. won mostly those states with rampant bullying and cheating.

    I watched tapes of Hillary delegates being harassed. I’ve not heard one peep from the DNC. And all the while rampant bullying went on all across the net. This has been the most disgusting “election process” I’ve ever seen.

    When Hillary won big, her supporters were portrayed as slack jawed cretins…again the party concurred with this and drove salt in every wound.

    They are no longer the democratic party I joined up to. They don’t stand for my beliefs anymore and they sure as hell did not speak up for me. Used my voice for causes and then refused to use their voice while abuse after abuse was hurled at women.

    This “party” can easily go on without me. My vote will be against them if they continue to support the man who has less qualifications, cheated in caucus states, disrespected me, screwed Alice Palmer to get where he is, and now is trying to do the same to Hillary Clinton, who never acknowledged that this was every bit as historical for me as anyone else, and on and on. What about this doesn’t the party understand.

    She has more votes. Democrats used to give a damn about counting votes. Apparently this “new” version doesn’t care about that and that I will NEVER support. Besides why should I vote for them in the G.E. when I’m not so sure my vote even matters to this bunch of manipulators.

    PUMA party sounds good to me. I would be disgraced to “unify” with what I saw go on here. I want NO PART Of it. NONE!

  219. I cannot support the extreme Left Wing of the democratic party. There was a choice between a Moderate Democratic and a leftist snob.

    Men for Hillary…!

  220. […] our efforts will not be difficult. PUMA (Party Unity My Ass) is already on the job. More efforts on and off line will emerge. It is not difficult with modern […]

  221. Where is the web site for PUMA? Lots of interest among folks but no place to sign up??

  222. John Kerry has a primary challenger Ed’OReilly. This coming Saturday, there will be a convention in Lowell, MA. If this challenger gets 15%, he will be on the ballot to challenge John Kerry in Sept. John Kerry is strongarming local politicians to prevent this from happening. Let’s lend a hand to Ed’ Oreilly!


    BTW, O’Reilly is a surpringly good progressive guy. He is a lawyer, very articulate. I did watch a interview with him on Boston TV station a while ago.

  223. http://www.politico.com/blogs/jonathanmartin/0608/Duprey_defies_captions.html

    There’s the people you’ll be voting for if you vote for McCain! Still interested in a spite vote? Why?

  224. We are tired of the obamabots…be gone.

    McCain for 08 Experience counts, even Black folks want it.

  225. Hillary has a lot more class and brains than the group over here supposedly working for her.


  226. Thats ok pffffft we contacted the animal and she said it was ok. And we wont be losers if McCain wins! Go back to LaLa Land with your new messiah and leave the people with brain cells alone.

  227. Just a reality check for those Hillary supporters who plan to vote McCain. Copy/pasted from McCain’s website:

    Overturning Roe v. Wade

    John McCain believes Roe v. Wade is a flawed decision that must be overturned, and as president he will nominate judges who understand that courts should not be in the business of legislating from the bench.

    Constitutional balance would be restored by the reversal of Roe v. Wade, returning the abortion question to the individual states. The difficult issue of abortion should not be decided by judicial fiat.

  228. Bob: You are late to this party. Roe has always been a Republican game. They aren’t going to get rid of it.
    But if they do, then young women will have to fight for it all over again. They had a choice. They could have chosen the woman. They have to live with the consequences. It is not our obligation to indulge them in their irresponsible behavior to vote for a man who doesn’t want to represent the base.

  229. If, God forbid, my daughter needs an abortion, I’m not going to see her go to some back street coat hanger merchant of death. That’s why, whatever I might think about him or his friends, I will, ultimately, reluctantly, support Barack Obama, because President John McCain will move to end safe, legal, abortion over large swathes of this country.

  230. The solution is to WRITE IN HILLARY. She won’t win that way but at least the Repugs won’t get our votes.

  231. Dear Angry Friends,

    I want to share with you MLK’s words on the day before he was assassinated

    “Now, what does all of this mean in this great period of history? It means that we’ve got to stay together. We’ve got to stay together and maintain unity. You know, whenever Pharaoh wanted to prolong the period of slavery in Egypt, he had a favorite, favorite formula for doing it. What was that? He kept the slaves fighting among themselves. But whenever the slaves get together, something happens in Pharaoh’s court, and he cannot hold the slaves in slavery. When the slaves get together, that’s the beginning of getting out of slavery. Now let us maintain unity.” Martin Luther King, “I’ve Been to the Mountaintop,” April 3rd, 1968.

    1968-2008 Forty Years

  232. pffffft I don’t want to get into a flame war with an Obama Bully but I want you to know that I would be compromising my values if I voted for Obama. I’m an American first and believe Obama would be a disaster for this county. I’ll choose McCain this fall over Obama not because I like all his ideas but because I trust him more not to harm the country. Then in four years maybe the Democrats will come to their senses let Democrats, actually elect the parties nominee in a democratic fashion. By the way I’m a male not female so come up with a more appropriate hate word to describe me and many of the commentators on this blog.

  233. Mitchell — perhaps you should share those words with the side that started the civil war within the progressive coalition, that took over the party through a scorched-earth campaign of character assassination, and that openly proclaims its prejudices against the major groups that make up the coalition.

    You and your friends can just run along now, and play “unity” all by yourselves.

  234. I have been reading many blogs on Hillary Clinton… I have to admit that at the beginning I was not her supporter, but the more I learned about her the more I realized she was the most qualified candidate and the only electable one. She spoke truth, she laid down ways of getting things done… she had a platform.

    Some of my favorite comments from other blogs are listed below and I want to pass these gems on to the rest of you:

    “If the Press had been more responsible and exposed Obama earlier he would NEVER have won as many states as he did. The media suppressed the information for months and let voters be decieved. They attacked Hillary and puffed up Obama trying to run this election. Voters deserved to be informed of Obama’s associations with Anti American, racist, white hating, criminals and terrorists. It goes to the man’s judgement of who he chooses to be in the company with.”


    “When did the “Democratic” Party lose its way? When did it become okay to remove a citizen’s vote? Who cares who is complaining about it and for what purpose. We should all, as Americans, be outraged by such conduct by the DNC.

    Also, Hillary didn’t complain yesterday, she’s been talking about the situation since January, since the voting began. Did she change her mind from last year? Perhaps, but so what? Do you think the voters in FL and MI care that she changed her mind? Don’t you think they just wnat to have their voice heard?
    I can’t wait to see Obama go down in flames in November. The Audacity of Arrogance will get him in the end, as it will with all his supporters, and I’m going to enjoy every moment of it, after the way my candidate and her supporters have been treated during this whole campaign.

    By the way, before you begin calling me racist, uneducated, stupid, delusional, etc. I am a biracial member of the Green Party and I have an advanced degree. Now what?”


    “Obama totally misses the point that with the closest race in presidential history, no one should have their vote left out. It would be different if this was 1980 and Senator Kennedy was behind by 700 delegates and all the contests were over. But this is the closest IN HISTORY. Obama can never hope to have those Clinton people back if the votes are not counted. It will feel like along with shoving Hillary out and disrespecting her every moment that she ran (like women aren’t used to that in life!), that she was cheated by at least winning the popular vote in order to make her campaign’s case to superdelegates. No matter how pretty Mr. Obama is and how beautifully he speaks, there isn’t a speech in the world that will make coming together possible if the votes are not counted and if Hillary Clinton isn’t the VP. Thanks for letting me comment.”


    “Women have been messed over for many years by the Democrat Party and it appears that millions of “US” will be returning the favor, should this primary season continue on its current path. Hillary Clinton is clearly the best choice to be our party’s nominee for President. As a life-long Democrat, age 55, I think the way my party has hosed Hillary and their most loyal and largest voting block; women intolerable. I am confident the Democrat Party will pay a severe price for this blatant assault on women in November. Cry all you want about this being “sour grapes” but little good will result from your on-going efforts to rally Hillary’s staunch supporters around your chosen candidate instead of the people’s choice. Now, the Democrat Party leaders want women to get their pre- selected from the start, elite, wimp, Barack Obama elected in November. It will be cold day in hell before I comply and I also hope Hillary walks away from this Party. Most of the women, and many men as well, with whom I have contact are finished with the Democrat Party, now and forever. Also, many of “US” are starting a grassroots movement to insure these kind of sorry tactics employed by my now soon to be former party, never happen again. This clear favoring of Obama, making him the nominee because the party doesn’t want a woman, especially a Clinton woman, is more that I can tolerate. Of all the gall, the Democrat Party now expects “US” girls, including Hillary, to turn over our undying support to Obama. Sorry guys, this is not going to happen. Obama has no shot of winning in November without Hillary’s help and all of us, her supporters. Not on your life or in your wildest dreams is this going to happen. “

  235. It makes no sense to vote for Obama if you believe in Dem Party principles. You think the friend of Wright, Rezko, Pfleger, and Ayers and other who he “doesn’t agree with” will choose Supreme Court justices who believe in the right of privacy. You want the man who voted ‘present’ on NARAL matters to protect your rights? If he makes a bad choice, the Dem Senate will rubber stamp it.

    Better to protect your rights by having McCain look for confirmable judges.

    I, for one, will never trust Obama with my vote.

  236. One thing we will have to face, all the anger in the world will not change the new voters, black support or educated white men and women. The numbers are not there. All we can do is vote or not vote. This will only alienate are members and tarnish everything Hillary has worked for. It will also make it harder for her in congress in the future. The young people and many other groups are not with us. We must acknowledge this.

  237. […] I give you the new political force in the Democrat Party, PUMA – Party Unity My Ass! The Party Unity My Ass un-Party (PUMA) was born yesterday. We already have many new members. But, […]

  238. Is it true as I think I heard on CNN???…. NObama was in golf clothes and going golfing while Hillary (who very much sounded presidential) was conceeding???

  239. Face the facts Michelle…. You were dupped by the media and Obama… You are so young… but there are many young people who were not and were Hillary supporters, black and white,young and old, men and women, educated and blue collar workers who were not… apparently the Rev. Wright way of doing things dupped you… Obama took 20 years of lessons from the man!!!

  240. A question was just posed (on the Hillary board) at to the overall purpose of PUMA.

    Wanting to share it with you and open it up for discussion, this is my take:

    I would contend that PUMA — for at least June through November — exists primarly to prevent Barack Obama from winning the White House in 2008.

    After November — given a McCain victory — I would contend that PUMA would strive to reform and rebuild the Democratic Party to be the party that America had *thought* it was voting into power in 2006.

    Or — given an Obama victory — I would contend that PUMA would strive to become a 3rd Party that would draw in Centrists, Moderates, Independents, Conservative Democrats, and Liberal Republicans… with Election Reform at the top of its platform.

  241. Obama has no integrity or principles. He threw his grandmother under the bus, he threw Wright under the bus, he threw Pflegger under the bus, and he threw Rezko under the bus. The democratic party and Hillary Clinton made a big mistake supporting him.

  242. puma pac = people united mean action

    puma party = party unity my ass

    🙂 same goals

    pumas have united in this coalition:



  244. To anybody who heard or read the news article in the (London?) Times that Bob Dylan came out with a “ringing endorsement” of Barack Obama, let it be known that he apparently did NOTHING OF THE SORT. he gave an interview intended to discuss his drawings and other artwork, and at the end the interviewer asked him one question on his view of the US political campaign. If you read the interview, or even the quote, closely, all he really did was mention Obama’s name!


    Dylan has never in 40 years endorsed a candidate or expressed a preference in an election. The only one I’m aware of is the one in his recent book where he says his favorite politician was Barry Goldwater!
    Although it’s quite possible he’d do it now for the first time (he’s done the unexpected many times before), there is only one source for this story, an edited transcript of an interview devoted to something else. So far there’s no independent evidence for this interview.

    And, if one believes he wasn’t sincere or was joking in his remark about Goldwater, then why believe he’d be sincere in a remark about Obama?

    If you want to read a real endorsement of Obama by a singer, compare Dylan’s with the one by Joan Baez last February:


    the differences should be palpable.

  245. Interesting site. So should John McCain win over a democrat. IDK, I was planning on voting for him when Hillary dropped out but that’ll all depend on the vp picks.

  246. I know if I prayed enough, the Lord would come to my aid and share my viewpoints.. In fact, it is funny but in an email to the DNC, I used the same words.. ‘Party Unity My Ass !’…. Maybe I formed this movement.. !
    Anyhow, Thanks for doing this.. With you all the way..
    When we all educate the public about the organization, ‘truly’ running Obama’s campaign, Even 50 per cent of his supporters will not vote for him..
    David Axelrod’s parents worked for a ‘major’ Communist backed magazine..! Obama had a ‘mentor’ named ‘Frank Davis’ in Hawaii…who was as Communist as they come..!!! When you add in.. that crazy anti American pastor, and the Catholic Priest who loves Satan more than God….we begin to see the ’empty suit’ is truly filled with ‘darkness’…

    We all know Hillary is ‘just going along’…holding her delegates,, and we are ‘all’ ‘ready to strike’ for her at the convention…Smart women… and should be our next President…
    Obama, his campaign, and people like Axelrod around him.. are a FRAUD… Tell them I said so…

  247. […] seems Hillary’s supporters are really taking this seriously: Monday: PUMA Power The Confluence Can you say “Soar losers?” __________________ Enemies Among Us- My […]

  248. I will not allow the Democratic party to pursuade me to vote for Obama. They think the American people are a bunch of dumb asses whose vote really does not matter. I guess the vote part is true and if Obama is elected the dumb asses part is true too. We need to stand up for ourselves and get the word out to not let the media and democratic party make a bunch of fools out of us. Write in Hilary’s name or vote for John McCain. Staying home will not help. I have voted for a Democratic candiate for 18 years and this will be the first election where I am so ticked off at how my nominee was treated that I WILL cross lines. The Democratic party needs to open their eyes. Stop splitting our votes and listen to what we want as a whole. Al Gore got screwed and now Hilary. When will we put a stop to this insanity.

  249. Dear PUMAs,

    Please do not vote for McCain. Also, for the record, the Clintons have a history of blaming other people/groups for their mistakes (they are hardly teenagers and neither am I!).

    I respect your right to your views, but not McCain-please. I really think he will have too much trouble moving away from Bush policies-very dangerous waters.

    Vote in protest for Nader-but don’t overdo it. I suspect many Republican/Independents will vote for Ron Paul or the Libertarian candidate-Oh, what a year!

  250. they remove any democrat statements ive madfe post and they have eliminated them this board is a hoax
    [mike g: This is not a hoax. This is a refuge from abuse at other forums. You are not welcome here, Into the spam filter you go. — RonK]

  251. Jonathan,

    You’ll find that the definition of a majority is more than half, rule of thumb being half plus one is a majority. Hillary Clinton got half plus 300,000 or so. That means that the majority of voters did not choose Obama, they chose Hillary.

  252. Jeff, you are right. We all should have rallied around Clinton like there was no tomorrow … but we did what we did. Now it is time to do something else based upon what we did not do before. Better to do it now than fail to learn from our past mistakes, eh? We just gotta do what we can in every possible way.

  253. I won’t vote for McCain, AND I won’t be voting for Obama. I’m voting for Hillary. If the party wants my vote, they better run Hillary.

    The anti-Clinton wing of the Democratic Party did it. They were incredibly sharp and shrewd about it. People said Hillary never saw Obama coming. Perhaps it was us who did not see the DNC coming. I’m not against Obama–he’s probably a nice fellow, but he’s a tool of the anti-Clinton wing of the party (the same wing that keeps giving us candidates that lose GEs). The DNC failed to consider the depth of loyalty from Hillary’s base. That’s where we come in!

    First things first: Go to http://www.hillaryclinton.com and make a donation. Do it from her site, not his. We’ll get her out of debt ourselves.

    Second thing: let’s get organized. We have until August.

  254. I think there’s always a vocal few who reflect badly on an entire group, but I think you’d be surprised by the breadth and depth of support for Hillary you find among many of us in the Obama campaign.

    For myself and so many of my women friends, I think we’ve felt deep respect for the contribution that Hillary’s made behalf of all women, and to the party, yet support Obama as well. I think the candidate himself is on the same page with us there.

    Anyway, I see where your coming from – Everyone has to go through their own personal “vetting process” for any candidate, but I just wanted to bring up that point.

  255. Melissa — If you had all that “deep respect”, you would’ve parted company with Obama a long time ago (like I did).

    Do you have any idea what kind of impression it makes to run a scorched-earth campaign for 10 months, where no tactic no matter how low down dirty off the table, and then show up looking for “dialogue”?

    My priorities re Obama are the same as my priorities re George W Bush. Keep him out of power if possible, do damage control after the fact if necessary.

    Obama could start — like George C Wallace did in his later days, or like Lee Atwater reportedly did on his deathbed — by confessing and repenting some of the things he’s done out of political ambition.

    Fat chance.

  256. So we need to stay organized. I’m in Seattle (crazy BHO poser territory, major hipster fratbag galore).One thing I’m confused about with regard to Michigan is why he got ANY votes as his name was not on the ballot. How exactly did that work. This is a valid point which was never discussed at RBC meeting. this is such a freaking inside job it’s crazy. I’m a 45 year old married woman living in Seattle and I’m pissed. I have been a Democract since I was 10 years old and listened to my parents argue about McGovern and Nixon(Dad nixon Mom MCGovern) and it was then I decided I was a Democrat. I feel like I’m going through an identity crisis. Anyone else feeling that way? Dude Where’s My Party? This is a great site and a great movement, let’s keep it up! I remember when Moveon was in it’s infancy(well it’s still infantile) and was “censureandmoveon” let’s stay focussed and give these thugs a run for their money. Viva Democracy!

  257. When you finally know you have had enough and you will never go back and nothing they can say and do will Change your mind. That is now. I have had ENOUGH.

  258. PJ, all your points have been argued and counter-argued here.

    We will NOT VOTE FOR OBAMA. We will not support a CHEATER and A VOTE STEALER.

    We will not support Howard Dean’s DNC den of theivery.

    Go back to the O-borg and report that mission to recruit has failed.

  259. Media, if Dubya, Bush father, Reagan, and Ford didn’t overturn Roe v Wade, it ain’t gonna happen now.

    You take care of your reproductive organs, and I’ll take care of mine.


  260. JK, your candidate had CNN ads running here in FL (i’m an FL voter).

    GO AWAY. We will not vote for him. Ever.

  261. I assume that this post will be deleted too, so I guess it’s just a message for SM or whoever reads/deletes these things. I’m hardly a hardcore obama supporter, I had no bias before the primary, and I feel that either he or Hillary would be an excellent candidate. Yes, I did vote for Obama, but I am still a little concerned that he may turn out to be a fraud. Honestly, I’d rather have Edwards but that hasn’t been a reality for a long time. If Obama wins and turns out to be a fraud, then I have only myself to blame. Anyway, I’m not really trying to convince you, I’ve read all these posts and doubt that anyone could convince you. Besides, who’s to say you aren’t right here? We’ll fine out (maybe). The bottom line for me is that while I find McCain a lot more tolerable than some republicans, I was going to vote for the democratic nominee if it was Hillary or Obama. I just don’t see any political reality for getting Hillary on the ticket, so I will be voting for Obama in the fall. Sorry.

  262. The brain washing stops here! P.U.M.A. United for a fair and honest representation of everyone in The United States Of America!

  263. wow way to delete comments you fucking cowards.

  264. PJ, & Kelly, so why are you here?

    You made your decision, we have made ours.

    Leave us alone.

  265. Good riddance to bad rubbish… Please please please go Republican, the Republican party needs more people like you. Though i’m betting if you pulled something similar within the Republican ranks they would probably just laugh at you.

  266. Why would intelligent, sensible women even consider voting for McCain? Do you care about health care issues? Do you care about a women’s right to make her own decisions? Are you against compulsory pregnancy? Do you want to vote for a man who respects women, especially strong opinionated women?

    Then vote for your own best interest – vote for Obama.

    I hope to see a women president in my lifetime, but Hillary was way too old school politics for my taste. Learn more about Obama, and then join me in strengthening our party, the Democratic party.

  267. I’m glad to see so many over on our side. Barack Bin Laden has no place in the white house or even running for president. All he will do is let terrorists and communists take over and destroy our christian land. Once again thank Jesus Christ our lord and savior god that we will win with McCain!

  268. so… who wants more no child left behind? Who wants more conservative supreme court justices? who wants to decrease ALL funding for reproductive health and family planning clinics? who wnts abstinence only education? who wants for more years of Iraq? Who wants four more years of a miserable economy? who wants five dollar a gallon gas? what about continued tax breaks to unregulated giant corporations that can continue to get ecoli in our spinach, poison in dog food, lead in children’s thomas the tank engine toys.

    Im sorry. If you vote for McCaine, you get everything you deserve. We did already with Bush, and then with Bush again.

  269. I’m sorry that Hillary lost, but I will be even more sorry that we will lose America with four more years of McBush

  270. To all the Obama astroturfers who just showed up – what the hell are you doing here? You are convincing no one. Obama ran a scorched earth campaign for months. The lines have been crossed – we’re done with him.

    However, a friendly piece of advice – if you ever encounter some folks whose minds are not already made up, you should find a better way to communicate with them. It sounds to me like you’re only basking in your own self-righteousness.

  271. SM,

    I just wanted to respond because I felt my intentions were misinterpreted in the first post. Don’t worry, you won’t see me around here again.

  272. PJ, good.

    We will not be assimilate into the O-borg.

    A lot of us don’t know whether we’ll stay home, vote McCain or Green party.

    But what we do know is what millions of people saw on live TV.

    The DNC & RBC fixed the election so that Hillary never had a chance. Votes and voices were halved and silenced, and given to candidate that did not win them in the first place.

    We will NOT vote for Obama, not now, nor in November.

  273. I will not vote for Obama not even if Hillary is on the ticket. I think Obama is a fraud. I think Oprah just wants to see a black man in the WhiteHouse at any cost. I think Hillary was our only chance to make this country great again.

  274. Great great great! I am so happpy to see that loyal real democrats are standing up for what we believe in rather than being steamrolled by bias media and washingtons boys club politics. At this point my vote is not for Hillary or democrats even, its AGAINST Obama. Do I think MCcain is the best candidate? No, but I know what im getting and know he has real experience and character atleast. I am so outragd by what the DNC and high ranking dems have done that I am going to re register as anything but democrat. McCain 08, Clinton 2012!

  275. I love it – speak against your goddess and get deleted. You don’t want any dialog here, just your own self-absorbed whining to one another without perspective.

    Have at it!

  276. I guarantee come November–when you’ve all blown off a little steam at sites like this–the DNC and Obama supporters like myself will have talked you back to the true fold. And in any case– GREAT MEN LIKE SEN. OBAMA ONLY COME AROUND ONCE IN A GENERATION AND WE WILL ABSOLUTELY NOT ALLOW YOU TO DESTROY OUR DREAM!

  277. […] stands for Party Unity My Ass.  Its quite catchy, and the logo works well.  Its just that the sentiment underneath it all is […]

  278. Bri Koca & Jeff.

    Obama destroyed our dream, it was called DEMOCRACY.

  279. I will be checking back regularly to see if this evolves into an organized effort. As an independent I was never particularly concerned about party unity but I understand that may be an issue for long time members of the democratic party.

    From what I read over on the site, “Hillary is 44” there seems to be some confusion over what states you can write in Hillary’s name without the vote counting for Obama and what states you can’t vote for Democrats downticket if you vote for McCain.

    Providing accurate information on these issues would seem to be a good start.

    I would love to see a T-shirt which reads “McCain 2008 and beneath that “Clinton 2012” with any profits either going to McCain or, if possible, a fund earmarked for Clinton in 2012.

    I realize 4 or 5 months is a long time but I can’t imagine the outrage will have diminished all that much by the time the General Election rolls around. I feel like the DNC new “Old Boy Network” (i.e.: Kennedy, Kerry, Patrick, et al) sold me out. Do they really think the irrational fear of a few McCain judicial nominations which would surely be vetoed by the overwhelmingly Democratic Congress will scare me into voting for Obama?


  280. the fact is that Hillary lost the nomination within the defined process of the democratic primary.
    By the way, stop raising the issue of Michigan. How can you evevn pretend it was an fair election when their was only one name on the ballot? do you you live in the soviet union or a banana republic?
    the mere fact that she was the only one to keep her name on that ballot and then present that argument it should be counted shows her lack of ethics.

  281. Thomas, Kucinich and Gravel we also on the MI ballot together with Hillary.

    Obama, Edwards, Richardson, Biden took their names OFF to game the system.

    Obama stole votes & delegates that did not belong to him.

    Obama is an illegitimate candidate.

  282. Thomas D:

    There was more than one name on the ballot, and the reason Obama wasn’t on it was he took his name off.

    He therefore has no right to any of the votes.

    BTW – I guess you would agree that Obama’s first election “victory” was illegimate since he was the only person on the ballot, after challenging the others so he could run unopposed.

  283. I live in Las Vegas, Nv, which is a traditionally red state. Our caucus went for Hillary but only two of our superdelegates endorsed her. They are both strong democratic women. One is running for reelection to the house of representatives and the other is running for a first term. We plan to work for and support their campaigns. Our third congressional member is Harry Reid who endorsed Obama.. He is not up for reelection until 2010 so we are already looking for a strong candidate to challenge him at that time. Then, we will work very hard to elect McCain as our President.. If we can win enough seats in the House and Senate to have a strong majority, I don’t see a problem. McCain has a record of working across party lines and he is a moderate rather than a far right hard liner. With the proper checks and balances in place and a willingness to work together by both the Congress and the President, this could be the most prodictive administration in history. I think we could find a way out of Irag, have universal healthcare, bring jobs back from other countries and regain our standing in the world. I plan on working for and supporting my two democratic Representatives and also working for and supporting Senator McCain. So do a number of my friends. We feel a strong democratic congress with a Republican administraion is the best we can hope for t this time.

  284. CSK – in most states you onlu get a ballot based on your party affiliation in the primary electon. In the general election in November, you get a complete ballot with all the candidates, both Republicans and Democrats and non partisan offices. You vote for whoever you choose. So, you could vote for McCain at the top ot the ticket and vote for democrats downticket. Write ins are trickier and each state has their own rules about that.

  285. America will NEVER elect a negroid or a woman to be the President of this great country. All of you darkies and bra burners need to do the smart thing and vote for McCain – A Real American Hero. PUMA is doing the smart thing by voting McCain. Thanks PUMA and God Bless America!!!!!!!!!

  286. Congratulations, James. You have managed to be megaoffensive to all concerned in one sentence. You are not a credit to the South.

  287. two words – shut up !!!!!! advice for all of you go ride a bike or plant flowers mow your lawn go for a walk and let it be really life is not this complicated ya all give me a bad head ache –WILL oh and obama gona wipe the talbe with mcsame with or with out you !!!!!

  288. If you really want to see obamamania at its peak, as well as lack of respect for Hillary Clinton, you might want to visit a website owned by MSNBC called Newsvine.


  289. While I am not a Hillary fan she is certainly better than Obama and McCain (running on his own) many of us in Virginia have been begging her to either run as an independent (the polls show her beating McCain by 8 points and McCain beating Obama by four) or running with McCain. Obama and his nutty band of followers are dangerous; get out of Iraqi and give the oil reserves to Iran, Hamas and Al-Qaeda so next time it will not be a plane but an atomic weapon. (We should never have gone into Iraqi but now we not afford to leave it).

  290. I’m voting republican!

  291. The MSM is clearly mortified that we Hillary supporters would vote for a republican. The answer is simple. Reagan Dems, are now McCain Dems. Mr.Obama has made it very clear, with his statements on white-working-class peoples, he is out-of-touch. Add the membership to an anti-white church, and the choice becomes clear. I have worked for minority rights, forever…..I cannot vote for anyone who is that off-base, when it comes to human unity. Coming together can never work, unless all peoples are treated equally, with respect, and humility. He is not there. I love him, I wish him the best, but I cannot vote for him. Hopefully, he will learn to embrace all peoples, without bias.
    Good Luck, To All.

  292. how sad this all is. Is making the american people suffer another 4 years of McCain/Bush worth it? Is another american GI being killed in a McCain never ending war worth it? how much suffering are you all willing to inflict on us all for your political “satisfaction?”

  293. James is an Obama supporter trying to make voting for McCain seem like voting with the KKK. And this is just one of the tricks B.O. ers will use from the “vote for Obama or you’re a racist” category. We’ve got to keep on our toes if we’re going to hang tough for the next five months. PUMAS!

  294. Rh, McCain is not Bush. Conservatives hate McCain because of his liberal views, at worst he’s a moderate. Rh is another Troll trying to break our ranks with the ridiculous Obama mantra that McCain is Bush 3. But we don’t even have to vote for Mc, as long as we don’t vote with for an ObamaNation.

  295. To chatblu :
    I am a credit to the South as well as my race my friend.The majority of white Southerners, as well as many members of PUMA, share my views. The time for being politically correct is over. We need to speak our minds before we end up with a president who does not represent OUR VIEWS, OUR RACE, and most importantly OUR COUNTRY!!!!! Stop being cowards and speak your mind!!!!! PUMA members are doing the right thing by voting for John McCain.
    Thanks PUMA and God Bless America!!!!!!!!!!

  296. Jeff, you avoid my questions. What will be your moral justification for the parents whose child dies from the never ending war? For the poor and unemployed faced with Mccain’s “economic policy?” for the loss of our civil liberties if mccain gets to appoint supreme court judges? These are real questions – deal with them honestly!

  297. William, what exactly is the difference between “white working class peoples” and the black working class? why is this distinction (“white”) important to you?

  298. You are not wanted here rh troll. go find some BO site.
    This one’s for Pumas to rally around our cause, you’re wasting your time, check out your own honesty, lier.

  299. jeff, apparently you can’t dialog but only hurl insults? Interesting you can’t address the issues – just name call…. is that the new party you want?

  300. Makes sense for you to vote for McCain – after all, you wouldn’t want to protect a civil liberty like reproductive freedom. Last time I looked, HILLARY is supporting OBAMA – at least she has the sense to know our liberties are important – you obviously don’t – and pulled down my previous post – as I knew you would – even though I supported Hillary – you guys are like NAZI’s – censor all that doesn’t support your narrow, meglomaniacal view – let’s see – I bet this one lasts maybe 15 minutes before you once again try to erase the voice of dissent – just like a fascist. I’m glad the Hillary I support isn’t associated with your HATE page.

  301. So what you are saying is that because YOU didn’t get your way, you are willing to deny all future generations of women their reproductive health and freedoms by voting in McCain who will have the opportunity to pick two ANTI -pro-choice supreme court justices. WTG you whining sniveling ego-centricists. I’m glad I (who joined NOW in 1972) taught my daughter (now 30 years old) that meaning of TRUE feminism. I am nauseated by your grade-school mentality. McCain is welcome tp you and I hope you and your daughters enjoy the results – but you won’t have to suffer the results because fortunately, there are far more persons concerned about regaining the White House than about not getting their way. I notice Hillary is supporting Obama ( and I supported Hillary) – so I guess you never really were true Hillary supporters – just cry-babies – and thanks Connie for demonstrationg hw stupid and narcissistic YOU are – I’m sure you losers are too chicken to post this – it makes sense!!

  302. Am I crazy or did I see a pro-puma post on here from someone in John McCain’s campaign? That is big news. I was going to link to it for a cnn piece and for some reason it’s down. Why would the site take that down? It’s not offensive is it?

  303. This PUMA group is run by idiots, for idiots. All women should ponder what will happen if McCain gets elected: yes that’s right, abortion rights will be out the window. The fact is, there were not many policy differences between Obama and Clinton, but miles of differences between both of them and McCain. Obama’s platform is strong, and he’s an excellent candidate. Listen, I was for Kerry in ’04, but I soon accepted he lost and moved on. Clinton lost, accept it and move on. Be adults about this!

  304. Adama, we’ve had 5 Republican presidents since Roe v. Wade was instituted and NOT ONE was able to take it away. McCain will not do so either.

    Obama on the other hand is courting the evangelicals who want to do away with it. Obama is a political shapeshifter who’ll do anything to please his $$$ supporters. I fear Obama would do away with Roe v Wade as he has no respect for women anyways.

    GO AWAY – we will NOT vote for a VOTE STEALER and a CHEATER.

  305. I received an e-mail invitation to a reelection campaign kickoff for the state senator who represents my district today. I sent the following response.

    Ms. Pierce,

    Please thank Senator Horsford for the invitation to attend his reelection kickoff. But I will not be able to attend.

    After acting as precinct chairperson at the caucus and a delegate for Hillary Clinton at the county and state conventions, I reached the conclusion that the democratic party I knew and supported has almost completely self destructed. That conclusion was reinforced by the Rules and Bylaws Committee on May 31st. When a political party tells voters that the delegates, not the voters, are the determining voice in selecting a nominee for the most important office in this country, the system has failed the people who support it. When the DNC, Harry Reid, Howard Dean, Nancy Pelosi and others like them pressure superdelegates to endorse a candidate when less than half the states have voted, and two states are deprived of their voices and votes, the candidate cannot be legitimate. When superdelegates like State Senator Horsford endorse Barack Obama when his district and state selected Hillary Clinton as their choice, it is even more obvious that the will of the people is not important.

    So, like many of my family members, friends and neighbors, I took the opportunity last week to go to the county election office and change my party affiliation. I feel very sure that the Republicans will not only welcome my support but will listen to my voice and count my vote. Under normal circumstances, I would wish Senator Horsford good luck in his bid for reelection. However, these are not normal times for my country. I sincerely hope that he and the other superdelegates that arrogantly ignored the voters in their districts and states find themselves in the fight of their lives in their attempts to hold onto their seats. My wish for this country now is that the only true American and patriot who is running for the presidency wins in November. God bless and help Senator John McCain.

    Thank you,

  306. You poor kool-aid drinkers who think Obama will be an advocate for women should check the facts. BO is supposed to be a man who supports a woman’s right to choose. But as a state senator, BO voted ‘present’ on seven abortion bills where he could have made a difference and the choice was clear. Instead, he chose politcal cover over taking a stand. He’s all for Obama, not for women or anyone else.

  307. I’m a 62 yr old 2nd generation Irish-American woman married 27 yrs to a Puerto Rican with relatives of every hue so Obama’s slightly tan skin color doesn’t faze me. I saw President Kennedy in LA when I was a teenager and shook his hand in the Cow Palace in San Francisco months later. My whole family have always been Democrats (it’s a large one, Irish Catholics, you know,)( though I’ve been in recovery since I was in college) My whole family has decided to vote for McCain because that is an actual vote AGAINST Obama, whereas not voting or writing-in Hillary in states where it’s allowed is a vote not counted. We have a Democatic Congress and can survive 4 yrs of McCain; can we survive any time with Obama? Is everyone familiar with “know your enemy”? Read “dreams from my father” and you’ll realize that Obama’s agenda just possibly may be division (of the races) not unity. Imagine Michelle as First Lady telling the world that it’s problems are the fault of mean white Americans who she hates too. By the way, have you noticed the grammar and spelling from the Obama supporters? If that sounds mean, remember Obama’s camp is saying that he has most of the young/college-educated people as supporters. Where are they ? Dean and the DNC decided that we Floridians who had to vote when the polls were open are only half-people. I get to cast a whole vote for McCain in November. Dean actually e-mailed me last week asking for money and I replied that I had sent a small amount to Hillary but no longer considered myself a Democrat since he (Dean) didn’t consider me a whole citizen!

  308. lejean, didn’t you take the hint? get lost….

  309. I thought I was alone
    screaming “Why is the Emperor Naked”

    please check out my site and videos


  310. Felix keep your rants to yourself. please leave and don’t come back.. we don’t want what you’re selling. bye.

  311. Arpad, so if Obama is soooooo liberal:

    Why is Obama opposed to Universal Healthcare? Why is he siding with Republicans on this issue?

    Where’s are Green Energy policy that doesn’t involve Obama’s main $$ donor – Execelon Nuclear Power? Why did Obama signed the Cheney Energy Bill – which means MORE OIL EXPLOITATION?

    Why is Obama pushing for privatization of Social Security JUST LIKE THE REPUBLICANS?

    Why is Obama pushing for charter schools and not reiforce and fund PUBLIC EDUCATION, one of the truest liberal democratic tenets?

    Why did Obama lavishly praise Reagan, the creator of the Neo-conservative movement and one fo the WORST PRESIDENTS in history?

    Because OBAMA is a closet Republican, just like you and his followers.

    Go back to the O-borg, you arguement is WEAK and tired. Mission to recruit has FAILED.

  312. lquemado, how dare you tell me to “let it go”. I will exercise my right to vote my conscience. If you don’t like it too bad for you. now run along, you’re propaganda is unwanted here. same for you arpad…bye bye sweeties..

  313. quemado how appropriate…..just like obama…toast see ya!

  314. AAE,
    Then why won’t you fight with us, to nominate the people’s choice in this election, the winner of the popular vote, HIllary Clinton. FIght for Democracy!

    You are so cynical. Snap out of it. We are making a difference.

  315. Sorry AAE, read your piece too fast.

  316. Mitch,
    Before you go off and assume why we won’t vote for Obama. Why don’t you read some of the posts on this sight, and then head over to http://JustSayNoDeal.com

    Your assertion that it is because we are simply upset that Clinton is not the nominee, then you do not understand where we are coming from.

    First read. Then come and have a discussion.

  317. arpad,

    Obama supporters say they want a discussion, but then they immediately start the insults. I will tell you what I told Mitch. Go and educate yourself about the Democratic opposition to Obama. You guys spent the entire primary banning us from blogs, driving us out with insult and intimidation. Now that there is something here you are interested in, why don’t you read a little bit about it first, and then we can discuss.


  318. I am sorry I banned no one from Blogs. I don’t have a blog

  319. I have read them and then and you make no sense. What is your point exactly. That would prefer to have John McBush who wants to open up all offshore sanctuaries to drilling, extend the war in Iraq indefinitely, extend tax cuts to the rich, continue thety grossly failed Bush Economics, overturn Roe v Wade. McBush voted with Bush 95% of the time. If that is what you stand for then become a Republican, Otherwise join Hillary Clinton, Al Gore, John Edwards, Ted Kennedy in seeing this election ius about saving our planet, saving our soldiers lives, and siaving our livelihoods and being a president to all states not just blue states and support Barack Obama.

  320. Medinacit@hotmail.com

    We are all brothers and sisters united under this party. Yes what happened is unfair but we need to all get together. Please folks I have no ill will towards any of you. But this country, this environment cannot afford more of republicans. The president has dug us into a hole for 8 years we need a democrat to help us get out. He is way closer to Hillary then Mccain as far as stances and honor. He damn sure is not perfect but noone is(besides my wife). I may not like something but I will gladly take the lesser evil. Contact me lets talk, I will not judge you or be mean we are all on the same side of wanting better for our country.

  321. Barack Obama may be a nominee-presumptive but he might have made one glaring mistake. Its a legal and a constitutional issue. His circumstances have never actually been addressed directly in a court or in the congress. There are a mess of laws on the books. He even has a birth certificate since he was born in the US. He can produce even a passport but his mother didn’t actually establish residency as required by immigration law at the time. So it isn’t a matter whether or not he is a citizen. The question is “Is he a Natural born citizen.” The answer isn’t legally clear. However if he is elected -that is voted president it will impact our immigration laws like an earthquake.

    Immigration law has been modified numerous times but ultimately it didn’t actually seem apply to Baracks specific circumstances. Various issues have also been addressed by the courts with regards to the aspect of his dual heritage -one US citizen, one non us citizen. Law that applies to Barack is currently understood that applies to his birth and his his mother could not have physically and as a result legally established residency. He isn’t a Natural Born Citizen.

    Anyone who is concerned about a canddiate who is legally unfit for the office of president should call their secretary of state and ask them if they are aware of the wide ranging ramifications. It means that Barack may have unknowingly committed fraud when he filed for the primaries and elections stating he was a natural born citizen. They reluctantly produced a birth certificate.

    Be advised election law is in essence designed to protect those runinng from office from the capricious actions of official state authorities. This means that they may say that they are a neutral party to the activities and do no due diligence with regareds to candidates credentials. They usually permit the party to police their candidates. Ironically you have to produce more idenitfication to vote than to run for office.

  322. Roger Veritas: Your comments contradict your last name – there is little truth in them. Barack’s mother is an American citizen – John McCain’s mother is an American citizen. John McCain was NOT born in the United States; therefore, by your reasoning, McCain is NOT a “natural born” citizen either. So – according to your reaoning – neither candidate is eligible to run. So whom would you suggest be the presumptive nominees for the parties? Of course, Obama is a citizen, just as McCain is a citizen. You sound as though you are a PARALEGAL on steroids – didn’t quite pass the bar exam?

  323. Roger

    You have got too much time on your hands, man. Get a dog.

  324. CaliVoter: I sooo agree with you regarding education. It’s really a shame that many readers can no longer identify the writer’s intent and main idea. For example, you thought this post was ridiculous when the really ridiculous and snarky post is on the front page right now regarding the Senate Ladies Auxiliary. It is pathetic, actually. Shocking in the extreme. So, I will put you in holding while you work on this skill.

  325. So how come that fraud Will Bower didn’t donate to the Clinton campaign?

  326. […] a Washington Blade article reporting that one of the organizers of the grassroots anti-Obama group Party Unity, My Ass is a gay […]

  327. So sad that people have decided to cast their votes simply based on being sore losers. You’re willing to continue with the failed policies of a Republican president because of this? Let me ask this: How would you vote if Hillary Clinton was declared the vice-presidential candidate?

  328. Kevin:

    Blah blah blah

    Educate yourself before you come back.

  329. From a comment by Auntie Meme at corrente:

    Conventional wisdom that says PUMAs are just disappointed old broads who are sad that one of their own didn’t get selected. They’re not ready to get down to the nuts and bolts of governing, nor do they really have the stamina for it. It’s a battle of pie-in-the-sky vs. practicalities.

    At a deeper level, the profound rift comes from the clash between Democrats who have paid their dues through long-term political activism and those who are new to the process. I’m not speaking of the candidates, per se, but of their supporters. Clinton supporters are not owed the candidacy. They are, however, owed a voice that resonates through the policies of the nominee and his organization. The Obama campaign deserves an 18-million voice yowl of protest. Unless their campaign makes substantial changes of tone and substance and strives toward truly hearing and acting on the concerns of those 18 million, the PUMA protest will take the form of not only not supporting Prince Charming, but of actively working against him.

    To sum up:
    a) We’re harshing their mellow and that bums them out.
    b) We can outline our case for Clinton until we’re blue in the face, but we can’t make them hear us.PUMAS are perceived as bitter little ol ladies.The meme is propagated far and wide by both “progressive” bloggers and the SCMSM. And we know that women over 40 at some point become invisible. Proven fact—I can no longer see myself in the mirror.
    c) Worse yet, we can’t make them care.


    I think that encapsulates the story of many PUMAs.

  330. well fortunately for us we don’t care what you think ken in cleveland. we think you are a nasty troll with too much time on his hands, so there! Now go away. blah, blah, blah….why not hit the streets some more, it’ll do more good than come crying here….loser.

  331. No, Ken. If McCain wins, the Obamabots will get what they deserve. We are already screwed. Be very afraid when you have backed a puma into a corner.

  332. A couple of errors I noticed. Puerto Rico, while a territory of the US, is in fact, not allowed to vote in the General Election, or any federal elections for that matter. Secondly, there’s the claim of experience, or lackthereof.

    Article Two of the Constitution states the principle qualifications to be eligible for election as President:

    be a natural-born citizen of the United States;
    be at least thirty-five years old;
    have been a permanent resident in the United States for at least fourteen years.

    I hope this clears things up.

    And yes, I’m voting for Obama, but, I respect what you guys are doing. I don’t agree, but I do respect.

    I’m not going to try to change your mind, you are adults and can figure things out yourselves. I just ask that you think long and hard about your choice, whatever it is. We as a country are in desperate need of a new world view. I agree that things didn’t seem proper during the primary, but understand that there really are only two candidates here. The Independent Party (including PUMA) will one day have equal billing amongst the Reps and Dems, but today is not that day. Unfortunately, any vote against Obama is not a vote for anyone except John McCain. Some of you may say “fine, so be it,” but I think some of you can understand the gravity of that statement.

    So, even after that long-winded diatribe, I’m not trying to change your mind. Just think hard about this, because your vote IS just as important as any other.

    Thank you for reading this, and good luck with whatever decision you make.

  333. Justin–you’re right. Things didn’t seem proper during the primary because they WEREN’T proper. Understand also that we are not willing to wait for the “one day in the future” fantasy. We are for getting in there and making that 3rd party a fact in the here and now. My non-BO vote will not be for McCain; but for myself and MILLIONS of other apparently ‘throw-away’ voters who have been thrown under the bus by the fascist tactics of the DNC. THAT’S what I understand.

  334. Justin:

    I understand the gravity of the decision. I’ve been a Democrat for over 20 years, and I have consistently voted a straight party ticket all those years.

    I will not vote for Barack Obama. He is not only unqualified, his campaign tactic of playing the race card against Hillary (and Bill) disqualifies him from holding office.

  335. Irlandese-

    Of what “fascist” tactics are you speaking ? Can you expound on what wasn’t proper? Please differentiate specific actions of Obama campaign from improper comments on Fox News that were specifically designed to cause a rift in the Democratic Party.

  336. […] PUMA Power: Now is not the time to put a love object in office, a weakling who will be entirely dependent on his power elite enablers. Or worse, he may be a dissembler who has barely disguised his contempt for the voters. […]

  337. P.U.M.A = STUPIDITY get real people, seriously

  338. Earlier, Clinton took aim at Sen. John McCain’s candidacy.

    “McCain is simply offering fours years more [of the Bush administration]. … John McCain and President Bush are like two sides of the same coin, and it doesn’t amount to a whole lot of change,” she said. “If you think we need a new course … vote for Barack Obama and get the change we need and deserve.” Watch Clinton bash McCain »

  339. Blah blah blahbity blah!

  340. “But, in fact, she is not the presumptive nominee, so a man of character, and an inspirational candidate with THE SAME ideological stances and platform as Hillary popped up into the national spotlight….therefore i support Barack Obama.”

    Why don’t you support that “man of character” instead?

    He sounds like a much better choice than Obama.

  341. Gee Jim, I’m a 48 year old grandfather and an attorney.

    So kindly suck my dick

  342. I’m not gay either, but you can still blow me.

  343. Yeah James, we’re so clever we infiltrated the Democratic party 20-30 years ago just for that purpose.

  344. Sorry to disappoint you Jim, but I’m a flaming heterosexual.

    You’re gonna have to stay in the closet by yourself.

  345. I just heard about PUMA, and checked out the site. I completely agree with the comments regarding backroom deals giving votes where votes weren’t cast. I can not support Obama for 3 primary reasons. We are in a critical point in this nation and I do not know what Obama’s actual policies are, his ability to achieve them nor am I satisfied with his answers to Jeremiah Wright, and Black Liberation Theology, and his denial of his muslim family in Kenya. This man is an empty suit who stimulates more questions than solutions.
    In Hillary, we had a known quantity, who has been thoroughly vetted and experienced to protect America’s interests, and promote America’s democracy. Ironically, she was sidelined by an undemocratic, back room process, that is antithetical to democracy.
    This is no time to engage in an unknown quantity, nor ratify an unfair process, my vote is going to Mccain; despite differences with him on some issues, I want Mccain to answer that 3 A.M. call. Keep up the GREAT work by giving us disenfranchised Democrats a place to talk and a knowledge that we are not alone.
    The “unity” rally today was not convincing at all. Obama vindicated all of us when he said “..i know how hurt hillary is….”. Does he also know how “hurt” we are by his devisive, dirty politics? Does he know how “hurt” we are that is was HIS cronies that disenfranchised us? Does he know how condescending that line was to us? Does he know he really hurt hillary by just having to include that? Hillary grimaced when he said that, and so did I. I think that will “hurt” him in November.

  346. Osay:

    I believe you are wrong. Please tell your troll friends that we don’t appreciate you trying to fill up old threads with this crap.

    We don’t go to your house and crap on the rug.

  347. I still can not believe that there are some people in this country that think a Military DRAFT is still in effect from the 1960’s……Grow a brain people and for God’s sake GET AN EDUCATION!!!! THERE IS NO DRAFT!! So thinking that your kids will be in every war from now until the year 3000…..it isn’t going to happen. Unlike other countries……our military is voluntary!!!!!!!!

    God Bless Hilary

  348. I am so fed up with the way the Clintons have been treated that I’ll do anything. Obama acts like Bill should lick his Boots. I sure hope he does not. Hillery has done more than she should. He wants to waltz into town as the MAN IN BLACK and be the center of attention. I’m not sure that he is even a democrat. To him, it’s all about him. He has no respect for past party heros. he just wants everyone to crown HIM king.

    Not me. Tell me how i can help

  349. “Unity” is a propaganda tool the establishment uses to dupe us into supporting someone we don’t believe in. Nader is Running. The Libertarians are also out there.
    Go third party. Yeah, they’re not going to win, but going third party sends a message to the party duopoly like “hey were not voting for these goons you keep spoonfeeding us”.

  350. OK…I really like Obama and I love Hillary and Bill too. I have been following both campaigns closely.

    From what I can see, Barack has the utmost respect and admiration for both Hillary and Bill. I don’t get what you people talk about. I have seen all the back and forth, and the smears for both sides in the media.

    I don’t pay attention to smears. It’s pretty easy to see what is substantive and what is not. Barack Obama’s pastor is not relevant. Neither is any silly mistake Hillary makes in recollecting her trip to eastern Europe.

    What are you people talking about?? Please grow up. You people are acting like children.

    Vote Obama/Clinton 2008!

  351. James:

    We ARE grown-up.

    We took a good long look at Barack Obama, thought about it very carefully, and decided no fucking way.

    How can you claim to love Bill and Hillary and not be outraged at the things the Obama campaign accused them of?

    We pay attention to smears. The smears perpetrated by Barack Obama on the greatest Democratic President since FDR. The smears perpetrated on Hillary, who would be an even greater President than Bill.

    You say we should grow up? We say you should wise up.

  352. PUMA is a front for the Republican Party.

    What a bunch of hacks. Everyone knows that Barack Obama is not responsible for press coverage of Hillary Clinton. And no one made Bill Clinton race bait during the campaign.

    The bottom line is that Obama won fair and square.

    The last thing Rush Limbaugh and Fix News and the Halliburton Crowd and the rest of the race haters want is for a person duly elected by the American people to win the presidency.

    They’ve stolen elections before, and they will try to steal this one.

    And you PUMA people are willing to help them, in spite of the fact that they are against a woman’s right to choose.

    That is counter-intuitive, which lets me know that the Republican party is paying PUMA.

    You stupid Republican party hacks.

  353. Good morning myiq2xu. Have you found any takers yet? Maybe you ID should be myds1/2u. Sort of interesting how the posts you don’t like get taken off. HMMMMMM. Now why would that be.

  354. I voted for Hillary twice for Senate and volunteered for Bill Clinton before I could vote…. I would have voted for Hillary if she was the candidate but now I will gladly vote for Obama. Their positions on the issues are largely the same in comparison to McCain. I’m not quite sure what PUMA wants other than attention.

  355. I worked on the Hillary Clinton campaign. And, I quickly learned after many phone calls to woman, in my discussions long with them how naive, weak and clueless many of us are. Guess what ladies? We are not a species of unity. The results of this election revealed this truth to me, woman are not united.
    My college age son, who supported Hillary, called me and said, “mom, what is you’re problem?” He was referring to woman. Why aren’t woman united?!

    Why is it that Obama was able to gain over 95% of the African American vote (support), yet only 45% of females backed HIllary? She is the the only woman in history thus far, who is qualfied in every way to bring “woman power” to the helm of this country and to the world? I was mortified to hear how many woman would not support her. I was snubbed at the polls and given dirtly looks from woman approaching the voting booths. Shame on you!

    For all of the woman who took a back seat to a man, who make 30% less in salary than a male performing the same job, or a divorcee who can’t force her able husband to spend time with their children, instead of his new girlfried, well let me tell you something, WOMAN MUST UNITE! Hillary fought to strengthen our position in this world. For all of you who voted for Obama, you are clueless as to what having Hillary on the ticket meant to every woman, and every young girl in this world! SHAME ON YOU!

    I didn’t support Hillary because she was a female! I supported her because she is the most qualified candidate not only now, but in American history!

  356. Christine,
    delusional. Your last statement contradicts exactly what you said in so many words above. The truth shall set you free. So McCain is in touch with women? Come on.

  357. Are you people seriously willing to back the GOP just to prove a point ? That sounds like a bratty kid who breaks a toy because the batteries no longer work.

    I just saw one of your respresentatives on GMA. To be honest, she just look ill informed. She was not well spoken and couldn’t give any rational answers to why she is choosing the stance she did. Sad to say, she made your cause look stupid.

    While both candidiates have done things that I was damned embarrassed about, I would not throw out the baby with the bath water. As an indy voter, I usually vote dem across the board. It’s usually the lesser of two evils. I have felt for a long time, however, that the democratic party takes certain voter blocks for granted (minorities, women, the elderly) and often feel that I’d like to show them! Now is not the time, however, to take a chance simply because of spite.

    I don’t know what America you guys are living in but the economic status of the US has gone to hell in a hand basket under GOP rule. (Remember, they started out with a budget surplus and look at us now! ) Are you willing to drive us deeper into the pits of hell simply because you’re pissed ? If you are you’re either stubborn as hell, a GOP mole, or just the dumbest jackass on God’s green earth! If McCain wins, God help us all!

  358. This whole thing is ridiculous. As a woman, I understand that a lot of you feel robbed, but when you take your feeling out in such a hateful and selfish way, it is extremely detrimental not only to the Democratic party, but to the country. If you support Hillary, you should also support her views to put the country before our own self-serving desires.

    Barack Obama is a great candidate and deserves this nomination. He fought hard for it and will make an excellent leader. Both nominees made history, both nominees would have been head over feet better than McCain, and both nominees represent the best interest of women.

    If you alienate Barack Obama, you are leaving the Supreme Court up to the Republicans who are notoriously awful when it comes to women’s rights.

    All I ask is to take a second look at Obama. He is a loving family man, with a strong wife, and two adorable little girls. So what if he is newer to politics than most. He is intelligent, surrounds himself with an amazing team of politicians, and cares about THE SAME ISSUES as HILLARY!!!

  359. Joan –

    I didn’t say anything positive about McCain, nor did I say I support him in any way.
    Kelly, how do you know Obama will make an excellent leader? What has the man done, someone please tell me what accomplishments Obama has? Voting against the war is commendable, but that is just about the only positive thing he has done. Philadelphia mayor, Michael Nutter (also an African American) stated, He has no right to be running for the office of President, he has no proven track record! Didn’t anyone see what Obama did prior to obtaining his senate seat victory? He set out to destroy his other opponents and get them off of the ticket. And he obtained the 150,000 signatures (which on occasion he went door to door to get) to get them off of the ballot. It was ruthless, they both are Hillary supporters. He’s no angel. I just don’t like him, he reminds me of a smooth used car salesman, with a good line!

    We are all entitled to our opinions, that is what makes American great!

  360. Regards,
    Jimmy Hicks
    PUYA (Put it uo your ______)

  361. Pardon the mispelled word, I was a bit emotional.

    Jimmy Hicks
    PUYA (Put it up your____)

  362. the woman on the news could not answer a simple fucking question in a direct answer. which further shows that you assholes are just upset that a white woman happened to lose to a black men,your to caught up in you emotions like the typical self centered bitches that you are. that’s why you cunts should never be allowed to run this country. your to busy thinking with your emotions,instead of being logical. grow the fuck up you son-of-a-bitches. obama for pres!!!!!!!!! now how you like them apples bitches.

  363. Brian you really should talk to someone about your anger issue, low level of intellect and hate for the female gender. You have no class.

  364. Brian:

    You obviously have issues with women. I’m guessing it’s not vaginaphobia, but latent homosexuality.

    Let us know where you live, and I’m sure we can put you in touch with some sensitive guys who can help you become comfortable with your true sexuality.

    OTOH, if it is vaginaphobia, you need to get over your irrational fears. I don’t care what you may have heard, they don’t really have teeth.

  365. I am a black foot amrican indian and do not like that they used the race card against her. White poeple tried to make us exstinked and stated that a only good indian was a dead one, but you dont here us cring about it useing our race to guilt the white people of america to vote for us. She is the most pro race person ive seen for all race black, poor or blue she was there first and if any thing the demicats didnt want a woman, if it had been a black woman they would have done the same. It is time to stop this kind of thinking and vote for the best whom is cliton! I do belive Obama’s goals lie with giving our money to other coutreys and saleing us all out. That is why i belive the powers that be wanted him, i think they want him in on the oil money. Think who is backing his campaine he turned down our money what sadi coutrey is giving him. His and who in the party will get rich with him if you want hillary for president write her in! It would be the first time in history that has happened it is time the press is stoped from there brain washing! Think for yourself and stand up for your vote history has been made by poeple who were willing to do this if there is any one like this left in usa help us be great again we need you!

  366. Rick:

    We’re really sorry that none of the girls in your high school were willing to lower their standards low enough to relieve you of your virginity.

    But maybe it will happen before you reach 30, so don’t give up hope!

  367. No offense but you guys are crazy. Obama may not be the best democratic choice but he is a democrat. Don’t be fools and vote for McCain.

  368. CD Cannon – SURE… what a Democrat Obama turned out to be. Misogyny, Vote Stealing, Slum-Lord supporting, Regan-worshipping, ya, whadda guy!

  369. It was Hillary’s to lose and she completely screwed it up all on her own. No one stole anything except your brains. Our dream is stronger than all a you crybabies.
    Hope Hope Hope
    Change Change Change!
    Yes, We Can!

  370. I think we should start a write-in campaign and all of us should put Hilary’s name on the ballots in November rather than vote for either “man”. If enough of us do it, we could just get our heroin in after all, couldn’t we?

  371. Blacks have been helping elect democratic presidents for years, now that we have a black presumptive democratic nominee, you won’t vote for him. hmmmmm, its a free country vote for who you want. 2012 is coming and trust me, me and a lot of people who look like me, WE WON’T FORGET.

  372. Facing the end of any relationship is easy some, and difficult for others. The downside of 21st century politics of involvement seems to generate behaviors that parallel those of a spurned lover. The daily e-mails, the “you made this happen” reinforcement, “we will change the world” pledges of empowerment are gone. In the emotional wake remains the faithful, dutiful partner, still reeling from the breakup. The screaming woman at Clinton/Omaba Unity rally, the disgrunteled members of the anti-Barack justsaynodeal.com making accusations of sexism and unfairness are evidence of promises unfulfilled. They’ll all be damned if they don’t get what they invested in emotionally!

    In the vacuum of leadership we’ve experienced for the past 7+ years, American voters seem to place a high premium on their loyalty. The one vote makes a difference mantra has been distorted into a limp substitute for self-esteem building. Yet, we must return to the businesslike process of electing competent officials who can actually accomplish real goals. Only then will this country be back on the right track to fulfill the real American dream. It’s not about not getting your way, it’s about an important change this country desperately needs. Compromise.

  373. I completely agree with Rob in a more simplistic way. I am smiling as I read these blogs. You can easily identify hateful suckers from respectful logisticians. Face it, the Dems and the GOP are both more divided than ever and for very good reasons. You PUMA’s give me great hope by acknowledging, even to the shrieks and cries of emotional egoist who can’t accept the reality of thinkers seeking honest up-front answers, who don’t swallow talking points of party leaders who would throw their own (like Leiberman and Hilary) under the bus, as the media cheers them on.

  374. Those of you who are thinking of voting for McCain over Obama are making an enormous mistake. I don’t like Obama either, but voting for McCain will just plunge us deeper into misery and despair. The failed Bush policies will continue to be enforced, bringing this country closer and closer to third -world status. For goodness sakes, write in “Mickey Mouse” on the ballot if you refuse to vote for Obama, but do not vote for McCain! Who wants 100 more years of a pointless war, off shore oil drilling that will wreck further havoc on the environment, and ongoing neglect for the middle class while the poor get poorer and the rich get richer.
    As an avid Hillary Clinton supporter myself, the aspect that upset me the most during this campaign was the media’s failure to give Clinton the credit she deserved for the extraordinary campaign she ran. What she has done and continues to do for this country as a public servant cannot begin to compare to the mirage of a resume Obama attempts to flaunt. The typical arrogant, sexist, pigheaded men of the world feel threatened by a woman who knows the ins and outs of politics the way Hillary does. A man who presents himself as a strong, assertive, and fearless leader is admired yet a woman who portrays herself in the same way is seen as pushy, bitchy and “castrating”. This country will never progress if certain people continue to think this way. The closed minded citizens of this country will maintain their grasp on the reigns of power while those who have learned to see beyond the issues of gender, race, and religion will remain under the control of the ignorant.

  375. Kel4Hill,
    I am not in a position to say I support McCain at this time, but if I do vote for him, I promise you that it will NOT be because of any those personal and wonderful issues you brought up. I also must say that it is offensive to those of us who are of any gender, race, or religion to be accused of wanting to control anyone. By the way, let’s not leave out political party as a personal issue either. I am frankly looking for a leader who is honest enough to say what s(he) wants for the good of the people, get elected, and go for it. (Can you think of someone like that?) That’s my ideal candidate (Sorry!). One that I trust will do what they say, and not do what they promise not to do. That is courage epitomized, and I want that! Whoever can convince me that he will do what he says if elected, will get my vote, even if it’s not what I want to hear. Don’t insult me as close-minded, if I don’t vote for someone who criticizes, flip-flops, or can’t come up with constructive ideas of his own. (Can you think of someone like that?)

  376. this is scary. i care too much for women’s issues to punish woman by voting for mccain.

  377. Really, Walker? Pray tell. Maybe it might help stop punishing female fetuses or help a few Moslem women along the way if you did. (Not saying I’m pro-life or anti-feminist.) BTW, there are plenty of left wing Republicans who don’t like McCain either, but they choose not to make it an ISSUE, respecting the choices of all women with personal issues. Try focusing on the truly helpless and abused in a world without hope. Believe me, it ain’t registered female Democrats facing a John McCain, but it could be a Taliban wife hoping for a strong American military. Sorry for the sermon. Your choice on the ballot does not scare me if your heart is sure you’re right. I think I’ve said enough here. Be well and be strong PUMA’s! Unity is nice, but so is independence.

  378. I would like to say that I’am a Republican and I will vote that way, But !! I do have to admit that the DNC really did put the big SCREW to the Democratic voters.

  379. ” This has been a long and hard-fought campaign, but as I have always said, my differences with Senator Obama are small compared to the differences we have with Senator McCain and the Republicans.”

    – Hillary Clinton

  380. “I will be speaking on Saturday about how together we can rally the party behind Senator Obama. The stakes are too high and the task before us too important to do otherwise.”

    – Hillary Clinton

  381. […] PUMAs are Democrats who supported Clinton but oppose Obama’s candidacy and wish to see him defeated. I have no idea how many true PUMAs there are. Certainly Republicans may be distorting or manipulating the online PUMA presence for their own ends. But I suspect there are a fair number, and I don’t think writing them off as nuts or cranks is very productive or helpful. If you want to learn more from a PUMA go here. It’s a blog I generally like a lot, even though I disagree with the PUMA approach, as I noted in comments here and here. And I profoundly disagree with some of the things written there about Obama. But I also feel like Dr. Socks and many of her commenters make a lot of legitimate points when she discusses the incredible sexism of so many of the Supposedly Liberal Doods running or supporting the Democratic Party. So go over and read Reclusive Leftist if you are interested. Below is a short excerpt from this post: Most of us are lifelong Democrats, seasoned veterans of the political game. We know exactly what we’re doing. We’re making a high-stakes strategic bid to salvage the Democratic Party — or, failing that, to build a new coalition that will take up the mantle that the DNC seems determined to shed. […]

  382. Hey, Walker, Why do you care about any woman who’d try to kill an unborn child? If they die in a back ally abortion they more than deserve it. Why would you sacrifice 10,000 babies a year to protect such scum? Your values are terribly warped. Switch your PC/femenist auto-pilot off; and switch your brain back on.

  383. Jeff, why not join us up on the active threads? Lots more conversation to be had there.

  384. Why not come up and join us on the active thread?

  385. now, now, john, we don’t link to that trashy orange stained rag here.


  387. Can someone please explain why, if you do not want another 4 years of Republican control, you would vote for McCain?

    Someone pointed out that he wouldn’t be able to do much damage if the Dems maintain control of the house and senate. I should point you to the Bill Clinton years where we had a Republican controlled house and senate and we had 8 pretty damn good years in this country. Jump to W’s first months in office with the same Republican house and congress and things went downhill fast. Currently we do have a small majority yet Bush’s policies are still running strong. Do you honestly think that will change if McCain gets the nod?

  388. There’s still time to leave this guy (Obama) at the alter. He has shown even his core supporters (the party activists) what he really thinks of them. He has shown himself to be a duplicitous liar. Because the delegate count is so close, it wouldn’t take a very large shift to throw the nomination to Clinton or someone else. At the very least, as a matter of principle, a floor vote should be called.

  389. First visit to your blog.

    While I certainly don’t agree with much of anything that you are saying, I certainly believe that you have the right to sound off as much as you like. (which you would be less likely to do under a McCain administration, by the way)



  390. Gunfighter, are you suggesting that McCain would somehow curtail our first ammendment rights?? that’s a mighty big charge, can you explain further. In fact I have more evidence that Obama suppresses free speech than McCaiin. See my video here:

  391. Wow, this is really great! Glad to see that there are other crazy people around. It’s not too late to get Hillary elected! Some choice we have now: King Kong versus Methusaleh.

  392. I’m a life-long Democrat, but the whole disenfranchise-Florida business made me furious beyond belief. The Obama people did everything they could to sabotage a revote or even a caucus in FL and MI.

    So I can’t get excited about Obama. And who knows what he even is about. He refused to debate Hillary, now he refuses to debate McCain.

    But after ignoring us in Florida for so long, he is now saturating the state with BS TV commercials. Every 5 minutes on TV you get “Hi, I’m Barack Obama. I have a white mama. I worked my way thru Harvard. I dedicated my life to helping white steel workers (sounds like another lie). Blah, blah, blah”.

    But because there is no debate, you can’t tell whether or not its true. He’s the world’s biggest hypocrite. He says he wants discussion of issues, then he refuses to debate anybody and just feeds us endless commercials. What BS.

  393. I’ll probably hold my nose and vote for Obama. But can’t say for sure. It depends big time on who the VP candidates are, on both sides.

    McCain also has a lot of explaining to do. What is HE going to do about gas prices and inflation and offshoring? There are very serious problems in existence that are more important than personalities.

    But I feel that I don’t even KNOW Obama. The press should have CRUCIFIED him for not debating Hillary. They should be CRUCIFYING him now for not debating McCain.

    Here’s my plan: Make it a LAW that the Presidential candidates MUST DEBATE every week. Furthermore, I would like to see them debate in a very simple way: Lock them both in a room for 3 hours and see if they mate.

    It would soon be clear who the winner was. Under those circumstances, you can’t hide behind TV ads.

    Wouldn’t that be great? Face-to-face, unmoderated debates. Just the two of them in the room. No audience. We would find out soon enough what they were made of and what they believe.

    Gotta hand it to McCain. He did that for 5 1/2 years in Vietnam so he has the advantage. Let’s see what Obama is made of.

  394. Gary,

    Yes. Probably every bit as much as George W. Bush has done.

    If you haven’t noticed it, you haven’t been paying attention.

  395. She herself has told her supporters to do everything possible to Democrat in the White House – even if it means voting for her formal rival.

    Is it assumed she is not sincere, or that it doesn’t matter what she thinks?

    Should we not do what she has asked?

    The thought of “four more years” is simply unthinkable.

  396. The mess in FL and MI was a very bad thing, but let’s put the blame where it belongs: on the decision makers in those states who made the poor choice to break the rules and invalidate their own elections.

    A different ruling in those states would not have changed the outcome of the primary race. The election was not that close.

    I cannot contemplate a McCain presidency. The more I see of him, the more I know he sold more than his soul in 2004. Any of the seven Democratic primary candidates would have been better than McCain.

    I cannot bear to vote for McCain and give the neocons four more years to devastate America.

    I do not see how any person of conscience can vote for the neocons. I feel it’s normal for me to feel bitter, but taking down my country is not the right response.

    So if PUMA has any ideas – other than voting for McCain which I cannot do – I want to hear them.

  397. JW, in FL, I know that the decision was made by a Repub-controlled lege. In MI, it was Obama’s operatives who stopped the revote.

    Why not join us up on the active threads? Lots of discussion going on up there about what to do next.

    (BTW, McCain != a neocon.)

  398. McCain would not be a “safe” president just because he would have a Democratic congress.

    McCain would exercise that “executive privilege” the Bush administration seized. He would nominate fascists to the courts and every post. He would veto the Democrats at every opportunity. One or two Supreme Court justices may retire in the next 4 years.

    McCain would be the one conducting our country’s diplomacy and foreign policy.

    A McCain presidency would be the very worst outcome for our country.

    I am a sore loser, but there is no way I will give power to the neocons out of spite.

    I don’t know whether I will vote this time, or write in a candidate. I will wait to see who Obama’s running mate is.

  399. Janis,

    Did you see the video of the Democrats in FL voting to break the primary election rules? They were smirking and laughing about it.

    I think they should have thrown the leaders out of the party in MI and FL, for breaking the rules and thereby disenfranchising their own voters. The penalty was clearly stated, and they broke the rules anyway – and for no good reason.

    I’m disappointed in the outcome, but blaming the wrong people doesn’t help. Even Hillary pledged to uphold the rules and disqualify FL and MI for breaking the rules, before those primaries were held. I was disappointed in her flip flop on that point.

  400. no threats please michael.

  401. At the risk of appearing fussy, the problem has less to do with overindulging parenting issues–which seems to be the point of the piece–than with the simple fact that a nation taken, to the chagrin of anyone educated beyond a GED, by American Idol, has flocked, squirmed, or somehow exuded itself into the Obama “glam.”
    I’m not suggesting Obama supporters are assholes totally oblivious to his hypocrises and mediatizability as an Everyman Superstar. I’m stating it outright: Obama supporters are assholes, and unfortunately for us all, the only way of dealing with them is to elect McCain this round–and we can safely assume Obama would do no better and probably worse–and hope some sense seeps in after four years and THEN, finally, we can have Hillary back again along with the wisdom and decorum fitting the office.

  402. I’m hispanic, and I strongly believe Obama will have a huge support from most of the minorities citizens and with no doubts he will be the first minority to get in the White House as a president of United State. I predict California, Texas, Florida and New York would be the keys for his victory to Mr. Obama in November 2008.

  403. JW said

    “The mess in FL and MI was a very bad thing, but let’s put the blame where it belongs: on the decision makers in those states who made the poor choice to break the rules and invalidate their own elections. ”

    What is really disheartening is the lack of knowledge or respect for democracy by obamaphiles. The Democratic Party does not oversee elections in this country, the various states do. The election in Fl was a VALID election, certified by the state election board. It was a poor choice for the DNC to try to circumvent democracy by disenfranchising the more than 2 million people who voted in Florida. They should be ashamed, and you, JW, should inform yourself more thoroughly

  404. michelle, we honor the kos strike here. no posting, you are no longer welcome

  405. michelle you are not welcome

  406. michelle, let me explain so that even a moron like you can understand. Does free speech mean I can come into your house and lecture you at will???? didn’t think so, now beat it

  407. This IS private property

  408. that was pretty lame of wordpress to give us the ability to violate your 1st amendment rights. why not sue them?

  409. michelle, you shouldn’t have told me this pisses you off…just makes it that much more fun for me 🙂

  410. seriously, michelle you violated the rules of this website. We honor the strike of Dailykos and you went ahead and violated that and so you’re banned. goodbye

  411. michell, what you are doing is called spamming and in many places is illegal. I don’t want to contact your ISP provider in oakland, but I will

  412. For those who wish to stay together in a long term commitment to the ideals and rinciples that Hillary Clinton has spent a lifetime promoting, http://Together4Us.com offers access for activists, funders, students, policy-makers and ordinary people to come together in support of each other and their goals for America. Please come to our website and join, use the code below to put our linked logo on your website and distribute our message and this code to all your network. Spread the word. We will be happy to put up a reciprocal link, your own co-branded web page on our site, or your own blog.

    Thanks so much,
    Gretchen Glasscock,

  413. why yes I am james…you dumbass.

  414. I can not and will not vote for McCain. His policies and positions on issues are totally opposite of what I believe in. McCain is anti women and voted that way. McCain supports Bush 100%. McCain make crude jokes about women being raped. No I can not ever vote for a man like John McCain.

  415. Anyone out there who still wants to vote for BHO shoutd look up….
    -obama WTF Black Liberation Theology
    It is an eye opening site for anyone that loves God and America. A vote for BHO is against American values.

  416. duuuuhhhh… can one ‘write in’ a vote?? won’t vote for mccain and can’t vote for bho…what’s a ‘PUMA’ to do…i’m 69 and have never missed a vote…[sigh] but i might… this time.
    i want our ‘HILLARY”!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  417. I am saying this again and again and again, I have been surfing the comment sections of CNN and MSNBC, and I fail to see hardly any PUMA comments.. Its one thing to talk to each other and that is good, but you are not going to make many converts if we keep talking to ourselves. Obama has been all over the news with photo’s, comments, etc. In some he looks like a school boy who is on a class trip, but people have to know that this is a tax payer funded political junket.

  418. jessie, I don’t know about your, when I post at cnn or msnbc, I NEVER get posted, no matter how innocuos it is.

  419. ….if your effort does not pay off and you refuse to back Obama, then you’re purpose of not having 4 more years of a Republican government will have failed. I am now and always have been a registered Independent, and in November I am 100% supporting Obama, because the alternative is more of what we’ve had. Both candidates put up an amazing fight, but now the party has to survive or the country will continue down this horribly destructive path.

  420. This “un-party” is only further proof that the problem goes well beyond politicians; the problem starts with the voters.

    Those who would rather vote for McCain don’t deserve a vote at all. It only shows your complete lack of competence, objectivity, and ability to put together a coherent and rational thought.

    All these people crying about Obama being responsible for uniting the Democratic party bring a saying to mind: “You can bring a horse to water, but you can’t make ’em drink.” You have to be willing to listen first.

    My advice to PUMAs: If you won’t vote for Obama, don’t vote for McCain. Don’t vote at all. That may send the strongest message to those who are listening. Voting for McCain would only end up hurting you and the rest of the country and world.

    My thoughts of PUMAs: Get over yourselves, take some Xanax, and just chill. There’s a difference between ignorance and passion.

  421. Gavin, once again an Obama supporter shows his utter lack of disdain for our constitution and our democracy. Just like your saviour, Obama, you like to win by supressing votes. In case you didn’t know, there is no qualifier to our right to vote. We all get to do it, no matter what you think of our intelligence or patriotism. You are a disgusting facist who would have only one party and dictate how everyone is to vote. You will understand, then, when I tell you to take your advice to not vote and shove it up your ass. Oh, and for good measure, go FUCK yourself, mkay sweetie?

  422. “I am 100% supporting Obama, because the alternative is more of what we’ve had”

    I disagree completely. Obama would be another CEO president, exactly more of what we’ve had. This is exactly the kind of crap I’ve gotten sick of hearing. I’m a liberal independent and have never voted for a Republican for president but I’m afraid that will be changing this November.

    “Both candidates put up an amazing fight, but now the party has to survive” is another load of dung. For one thing the fight was rigged from the beginning and for another “party politics” are the biggest part of what has gotten us in to the mess we are in.

    I live in Michigan and the Democratic party decided that the people of Guam should have more say in our political process than me and my neighbors. If my state votes for McCain and that is what helps put him over the top, just think of it as a raised middle finger pointing in Howard Dean’s direction.

  423. Trollies, give it up.

  424. Gavin, why don’t you grow a pair and drop your troll turds in the thread where people are actually discussing the topic at hand.

  425. are you people serious? i hear all this bitching and whining about michigan and florida, and you know why they were penalized? because they broke apart from the DNP, simple as that. and voting for mccain instead of barack???? wow, thats pretty much all i can say about that, grow up idiots, hillary ran a great campaign, lost to a superior opponent, even she admits defeat and supports barack, what more do you need??? i did not realize a nation of hillary supporters could be such whiny losers, and you instead will vote for war-mongering john mccain??? once again, i have lost faith in human kind, reading some of the absolutely pathetic posts above, a vote for mccain is a vote for war with iran, which will kill more of our youth, of course, middle-aged housewives don’t need to worry about that, they’ll never go overseas, but pick up your local paper and see about another dead soldier, and know that a vote for mccain will contribute to another dead…congratulations

  426. Um Matt, what branch of the military do you serve in again???? that’s what I thought you fucking hypocrite. And as for these “middle aged women”, many of their sons and daughters DO fight in our military and put their asses on the line for whining babies like you everyday. How dare you lecture them on how to vote. you should be ashamed of yourself talking about dead soldiers and the mothers of those soldiers. what have you done for your country lately??

  427. Gary:

    If you talk to the troll, the troll wins

  428. […] democrats, election, politics, president, Republicans, US Election, voting |   There are Democrats who will not vote for Obama and Republicans who will not vote for […]

  429. bob, thanks for the legal advice you stupid hack. now put the pacifier back in your mouth and back away from the keyboard.

  430. Matt C. as the mother of a military soldier-GO FUCK YOURSELF

  431. Right on, PUMA.

    100% behind you. I will NEVER vote BO … not in a million years ..

    Either Hillary or MCCAIN for me.

    Obama is a total opportunist …. Obama has done nothing to deserve to be the President of this great nation. Obama reminds me of a first level manager in a company who wants to be its CEO the next year.

    Obama is all talk and no action …
    Obama is hype … no substance ..
    Where is the beef, BO?

    The world wants to see a weak American President who knows nothing but talks big …
    So the world welcomes him … The weaker the U.S. President, the stronger the rest of the world.

    So when the world welcomes BO, it is saying alot.

    I am a 200% Hillary supporter and will always be.

    Go back to Illinois, BO …

  432. If you dont want BO, you HAVE to vote for MCCAIN.

    iF you do not vote for MCCAIN, you are voting for BO.

    MCCain is a liberal Republican …. Better MCCain than BO ..

    With MCCain , you at least know for sure where his heart is … You know he will protect the United States Of America …
    Our flag will fly high … We can work on the other differences with him .. At least, MCCAIN is a true American ..

    BO feasted at the feet of a Rev. Wright for 20 years… You are what you are the last 20 years … BO is trying to shed his past … but dont be con.

  433. Keep up the good work PUMAs!!!!

  434. In Michigan, we can write in our choice for President and I plan to do just that.

    Mad Old Lady from Michigan

  435. I love this site!!! Rock on PUMAs!!! Obama is an arrogant ass!!

  436. I was supporting Obama, but I’ve realized what a tool he is. GO PUMA!!!

  437. I am a hillaryloyalist and I did what she asked for to support Obama and I jumped on his ship. Once I started to do research on him and starting to ask more and more questions about him. Once I heard a supporter wrote a song for Obama and I read the news aricle on this, I will not stand for a hip pop supporter calls Hillary a bitch in his song and john McCain needs to be in a wheelchair. This draws the line for me and I have JUMPED off Obama’s ship. I will remember those lyrics from hip pop singer now.. I thought I past this onto everyone to read.

  438. PUMA is :

    Go PUMA !!!

  439. Tim why do you post on the previous day’s thread? Why don’t you come to the thread that is active? Because you are a whiny little shit who knows damn good and well that if you came to the active thread, we would shoot down every word you say. If you can’t be a man and take it then get the fuck out.

  440. i am 67 and have voted for the democrat cacdidate in every election for 46 yrs. this year i was truly excited andcommited to a candidate for the first time. hillary came into the race talking about foreclosures and a housing crisis in jan. for the 1st time i sent money . when hillary suspended her campaign i felt as though there had been a death in the family. there had been-adeath of hope. this site and others like it have been important since. i hope we find a dignified, responsible way of expressing ourselves in nov.

  441. Gary, you are my hero. Seriously.

  442. Thank you, PUMA.

    I have been a loyal Democrat, voting for the party in every election since 1972. However, it is now apparent to me that the DNC no longer wants my vote, or any other vote that cannot be purchased.

    In November, I will loudly and proudly vote for John McCain for President.

  443. Dear Not Bitter,
    It is a fact that:

    Obama took his name off the Michigan Primary ballot yet took ALL the uncommitted delegates PLUS 4 of Hillary’s in a move that has yet to be adequately explained.

    The Democratic Leadership is playing “cutsie” with Hillary’s Delegates and 18 million voters. Rather than entering her name in nomination as a matter of course as every candidate has in the history of the Democratic Party, they are playing games with the rules and LYING to both Delegates and (again) Hillary’s 18 million voters.

    Now, you can say – “It’s Over” all you want. But, Hillary ran an extremely close race for this nomination. And pretending that Obama won it in a blow out is a delusion.

    And that delusion will come back to haunt you in November.

  444. You can Count Me In PUMAs!!!! What can I do to blow this party apart??? The hell with Obama, his Socialist policies, his speech writer handlers and his booming voice…

  445. You guys are the best. keep up the good work!!

  446. LTWIF – Dude, get a mirror and look in it.]

    You’re dumber than dirt.

  447. I know it is very hard for the obama supporters to understand, it is beyond Senator Clinton.
    When obama bought and paid for the democratic party and created a New democratic party he went against everything America stands for.
    He is trying to make it possible for all his anti-american advisors to change the country from a democracy to a socialist dictatorship.
    For the people voting against him it will always be


  448. Seriously, as an African American with roots back to the south and grandparents who had to deal with civil rights issues I have an idea of how you PUMA people feel about what’s happening. but I also know that this is a historic election and primary for so many people. please think of the country. don’t be selfish. one day hillary will get her chance, but if people like you are doing this against barack obama then i assure you that i will start the PUMA or some other acronym against HRC if she even ever thinks of running for president again. i dont want to sound threatening but this kind of political organization is just despicable.

  449. Arthur
    This is beyond Senator Clinton.
    obama is dangerous to Americans be they white, black, asian, hispanic or any thing in between.



  450. You still do not get it.
    The New democratic party put a racist , anti-american, know nothing up a nominee.
    He is not good for any American.
    It is beyond Senator Clinton. It does not matter who runs against him, if that person is better for America they have my vote.
    Any of the other democratic candidates would have had no problem with the voters knowing that they love this county. obama not so much.



  451. Arthur, I think you are the one being selfish. Do you actually hear what you’re asking us to do?? it’s ridiculous. You are basically asking us to vote for him for no other reason than because he is black. In my opinion that would be antithetical to everything the civil rights movement stood for. No arthur, it is you who is being selfish. And not only that you are standing up for a man who has made a mockery of civil rights leaders by cynically using race to win an election. No way willl I ever reward that. Maybe you should talk some more to your grandparents…

  452. Al, do you talk to your mother like that? your sister? your daughter? you’re obviously a republican, so go spew your venom with your freeper friends. you’re not welcome here.

  453. I guess you have no problem with a morally bankrupt sleazebag who will lie about anything to win. We don’t need your bs here. and before you open your big ass mouth, maybe you should read some of our commenters who actually HAVE children in Iraq. You’re a whiner and a poseur. get off your ass and do something instead of trolling blogs.

  454. Moni, your comments and threats have been noted and recorded. Do not think you can anonymously, and cowardly make threats against other individuals without consequence. We have ways of finding out where you are and reporting you to the local authorities. Your kind of abuse will not be tolerated.


  456. This is my first time looking at this web site.I dont get it other than minor details on health care Clinton and Obama,s platform are the same.MCCain has always voted against women health issues and would like to have RoveVWade overturn.The MSM mislead you people, the primary was not close after Sen Obama won 11 straight.She ran up that debt after she knew she couldn,t win.You people need to get real.You don,t have to be political correct just say we dont like the man because he,s black.You probably wont post this.

  457. “Lurker64″–” is lurking on the wrong site. The Obama suck up site can be found thru CNN. If you have difficulty locating it, please ask any one there (except Dobbs) I’m sure they will happily direct you. I’m new to this site but I’m glad to meet people who share my views. It took me a while to find out about PUMA . I think the media was trying to squelch the word but I’ve noticed that it’s picking up momentum now. The DNC should be concerned. No matter how this turns out at Convention time, please keep this site active! We need to make certain that the DNC works within our guidelines (the People) and not the other way around.

  458. Hey Robbey
    Dont get mad at me.If you can,t handle the truth tough .

  459. lurker please, you want to lecture us on who is being misled, then throw the tired old race card at us? you’ll have to do better than that you dumbass.

  460. Lurker is the type of Obot that puts the “ass” in “dumbass”

  461. I have a petition on Care2.com to “WRITE-IN HILLARY CLINTON FOR PRESIDENT.” Please visit this site and sign the petition. We need 18 million signatures.

  462. I don’t think for one minute the obama camp was better prepared, they were more favored by the DNC and howard dean who i think should be run out of town on a rail for what he has done to the democrat party.

    I am voting for McCain and crossing party lines for the first time since I started voting. I am also sick of being told just because I wont jump on the obama band wagon i am a racist. I have now started calling those that play the race card racists. I have done my home work and I truly believe he is not ready nor fit to lead my country. He is a flim flam man and a used car salesman in my book and nothing more.

    To those that say by crossing the lines we are being counter productive, i say screw you. If you want to be sheep then be sheep, however I will not have my party tell me we are all the same and this is what we have chosen for you, now be a good boy and run along.

    McCain 08 And let the DNC know how mad you are as a democrat

  463. Obama was not my first choice, however the rightwing Wal-Mart princess, Slithery was my last choice of the dem candidates. If it came down to her or McCain, I would have plugged my nose and voted for Slithery. If you PUMA clowns have your way, and McCain wins, America will slip further into a unitary fascist state, and the marriage between multinational corps and our ruliners will be complete. In other words PUMA is just some narrow minded sore losers that are willing to toss out the baby with the bath water.

  464. Even Hillary Clinton wants NOTHING to do with you people! What will it take for you to finally come to your senses?? Maybe when McCain bombs Iran into oblivion and forces us all to live like 3rd world refugees??? Because that’s what you narrow minded selfish whiners are apparantly asking for.

  465. Can we write in Hillary Clinton on the November ballot? Can she win on a write in?

    Can you convince her NOT to relinquish her delegates and super delegates to Obama?

    He is such a lieing coniving sack of …… I cannot believe he got this far. He doesn’t even support his original campagn platform anymore.

    I am voting for Mc Cain to avoic Obama and his wife. If Hillary runs in 2012 I will support her again. Obama just cannot get elected. What a disaster.

  466. Clinton is the most qualified democrat nominee. No one can ever explain why obama is qualified to be president not even his campaign. what has he done in the senate most of all how many days has he actually worked in the senate. A prev post nailed it he does not even support any part of his original platform. Big deal if he uses the right words and woos people maybe he needs to work for hallmark instead of the commander in chief.

  467. What are you obama supporters doing on this site get off your high horse. Just because everybody doesn’t follow like sheep your hate. I will never vote for obama I would rather let the ship sink.

  468. No the Kucinich supporters are to busy preparing for the mother ship to land and take them off to xanadu!

    I actually wonder why so many obama supporters are so stupid. The honestly think that republicans didn’t cross over in droves to vote for him, just to keep Hillary out. They have no problem that Howard Dean and the dnc bent over backwards for Obama, kissed his ass and appointed him the nominee You have to wonder what kind of dirt obama has on Dean to get him to sell out what little ethics he had. .

  469. Obama “over polls” – why? Because the great middle class of America isn’t buying him. We are supposed to be the party of the people, and instead, we have become the party of elitest demigods, fringe liberals and unpopular special interest groups. This is the coalition that has engineered the Obama nomination.

    Hillary was the candidate of the REAL people . . . you know, those who work their tails off for next to nothing and get berated for “clinging” to their religion and guns. There is NO WAY that I will ever vote for Obama! The man is as empty as his rhetoric!

  470. Stupidy is a troll posting in a months-old thread

  471. I heard the PUMA rep on fox news and his response to an Obama supporter claiming that Obama had the popular vote lead. PUMA rep responded that they must be looking at different numbers……. Please spell it out when you are on national news. More people voted for Hillary than any other candidate. The only way Obama leads in popular vote (by very small number) is if and only if you do not count MI voters. Push the issue that Obama prefers not to count a half million MI voters that took the time to vote. Sure the response will be that Obama was not on the MI ballot. AND the PUMA rep needs to respond that Obama was not on the MI ballot because he removed his name in an effort to coddle the Iowa voters and their wish to always be the first to vote in caucus. Ask these fools if Hillary had removed her name from the IL ballot if that should mean we would not count all those that voted for Obama simply because she or any other candidate might have willingly removed their name from that ballot? Of course their chatter is foolish but many voters need to have this issue spelled out for them.

    VOTING McCAIN 2008 unless Hillary is on the ballot

  472. Party Unity??? Obama supporters are REAL BIG on lecturing about “unity”, but their concept of unity is for everyone to knuckle under to their unqualified candidate.

    What about Charlie Rangel? Obama’s folks won’t let him speak at the convention! Why? (1) he supported Hillary, and (2) he is black and the Obama folks don’t want the national audience thinking that minorities are controlling the party. This is a man who has given his life to the party, and the Obama groupies want him to go to the back of the bus.

    VOTING McCAIN – Hillary in 2012!!!

  473. i will be keeping my vote under lock and key NO ONE will get my vote this nov. no one !!!!

  474. GROW UP – you are so cute. Your parents must be proud.


  475. My vote is my vote and not anyone is going to tell me I have to vote for Obama. I have been a proud Democrat for years. There is no circumstance in which I will vote for Obama. I am disgusted with my party. Obama and his supporters continue to vilify Hillary Clinton and her supporters. Let Obama win without the Clinton supporters. Since he is so wonderful he should have no problem. It is like George W Bush all over again–‘let’s make the least qualified person we can find our president’. It is the leaders of the DNC that have split the party. Democrats deserve to lose this next election.

  476. If any of you stay home or vote for McCain then I don’t want to hear any bullshit from you when the Supreme Court goes ultra conservative for the next 30 years.

    You will set back women’s rights back all out of your own spite.

    What did you really want? It had to be Hillary or no one? Hillary had to get a free pass from political mudslinging just because she was a woman?

    Every campaign goes hard after their opponent, and Hillary’s was no exception. Despite having admiring her for a long time, I found myself despising her at times during the campaign for her misleading and nasty comments. But at some point I had to realize that if she won that I would have to put behind these notions and concentrate on what was important. I ask that you be rational and do the same.

    If Hillary had won, would you think it was rational for all the Obama supporters to behave this way? Concentrate on what’s best for you…..and that’s not McCain as president!!!!

    If you contribute to such a disaster it is your own fault.

  477. Come on people! It isn’t about Hillary supporters being “sore” over the loss. It is about a system that was manipulated to the advantage of a totally unqualified candidate. Spin it any way you want, Obama HAS NO RECORD – NO EXPERIENCE – and NO CLUE. He fumbles, bumbles and everyone makes excuses for him. His past votes of “Present” hardly make him a statesman. Obama’s supporters a putting their faith in words over deeds. Yes, he’s attractive and charming . . . BUT THIS ISN’T A BEAUTY CONTEST! Hillary did get more popular votes – PERIOD! Hillary is better qualified – PERIOD! Obama has “inspired” people who want a movie star, not a President. Remember this people – most of the conflicts of the 20th century were started by anti-war members of our party (Wilson, FDR, Truman, Kennedy, and Johnson). I don’t think anyone would argue that the Russians, Iranians or others would assume that Hillary Clinton wouldn’t defend this nation. Obama, on the other hand, wants to have a “chat” with everyone. Oh gee – I’ll bet that makes people nervous. It was after Khrushchev met John Kennedy that he decided our President was so weak that he could move his missles into Cuba. Are we ready to go down that road again? History has proven over and over again that inexperienced Presidents are an invitation to disaster. Let’s see if Obama is a good at talking us out of an international crisis as he has been at selling himself to all the idealistic followers who throw themselves at his feet? Remember Jimmy Carter? Well, he lost Iran for us and we’re still paying for that one! Obama is a national tragedy just waiting to happen. NOMINATE HILLARY AND MAKE IT STICK!

  478. If you people actually sat down and read the hateful, ridiculous nonsense that 90% of you are writing despite the rational advice of the other 10%, you might conclude you were 90% insane. King Solomon says cut the baby in half, and you do. What can you do with half of a baby?

  479. “hateful, rediculous nonsense”? Is it “rational” to blindly support someone who sat in a hate-mongering church for over 20 years? Is it “rational” to vote for someone with no Senatorial history or accomplishments? Is it “hateful” to resist a man who NEVER seems able to do much more than babble about “hope” and “change”. This isn’t an entry level job we’re talking about. “Insane” is being willing to place the fate of this nation in the hands of a man with no experience. If experience doesn’t count for anything, then let your 10 year old neighbor borrow your car for the day. The reason King Solomon was so wise was because he had EXPERIENCE! In the end, Obama supporters always digress into name-calling and worse. The reason is very simple – their candidate hasn’t done anything EXCEPT TALK. So you can say what you like, but it doesn’t change the fact that Hillary Clinton is the only QUALIFIED person to lead our party!

  480. Did anyone run an advertisement with a couple of siblings around ten years old coming home from school high on coke.

    When their parents ask them why they are acting funny they answer that they did cocaine at school.

    When the parents ask why they answer:

    That the dealer told them it was OK because President Obama did it.

  481. Obama- NO WAY. This Election reminds me of 1972. We ran a
    guy who had no business being on the Ticket. If anyone was beatable it was Nixon and we ran a KnowNothing against him. Now we are doing the same thing against McCain I can’t believe what has happened. Who did this stupid thing.

  482. Thank the leading lights of the DNC for this mess. Once again the party has been hijacked by a coalition of non-mainstream party members. This time they point to the youth vote and higher minority turn-outs as proof of their wisdom. The problem is that the general electorate may not share their optomism for a political rookie. Instead, these folks come up with all sorts of excuses and flawed arguements to cover the fact that they are leading us down the road to defeat. The great middle-class has to regain control of the DNC and put an end to this self-destructive behavior. These “True Believers” are throwing away this election. Who will they blame this time? After all, it’s NEVER THEIR FAULT! The rest of us just aren’t as “enlightened” as they seem to be. They forget that it was the blue-collar dumb-asses who built this party . . . not a bunch of spoiled, snot-nosed rookies with dreams of Nirvana. “Those who fail to learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them.”

  483. I think it would be in Hillary’s best interest, and the best interest of the nation, if we let McCain take this one. I hate to say it, but Obama is eloquent and “book smart,” but he really doesn’t know his butt from a hole in the ground when it comes to running the country. He’s REAL short on specifics, too. He might look good to Hollywood celebrities, but to real working folks he’s a silver tongued, over educated ivory tower kid who has no experience.

    Look at McCain’s age…there’s NO WAY he’ll go for a second term, and maybe Hillary would have a good shot at 2012. If Obama gets it, she could have to wait until 2016, and that’s way too far off for her.

    Let McCain take it, let him screw it up, and let the Democratic party come to their senses and push Hillary for 2012. Let the DNC sort out this Florida and Michigan thing, and she’ll be a shoe in for 2012!

    BTW, don’t worry about Roe v Wade. With 8 years of Reagan and a total of 12 Bush years, if they were going to overturn it they would ahve done it by now.

  484. Obama is a joke. It is the leaders of the DNC that have split the party. I don’t like McCain either, but he is a better choice than Barack Obama. I am tired of Obama supporters whining about ruining the party. Again, thank the DNC; and quit whining about those of that refuse to support Obama. Since he is so wonderful then he can win without us!

  485. It was REALLY stupid for the DNC to set up a primary where Florida and Michigan don’t count. Especially Florida! Look at it…the last 2 elections all came down to Florida. How can you say Florida won’t count! And Hillary won those states big time.

  486. The DNC is populated with losers headed by Kerry and Dean. Remember that anecadote about a reporter who asked a Texas rancher what he thinks about Obama? The Texas rancher said, “Oh, he is a pole turtle” and he proceeded to find a pole turtle. It was a turtle sitting on a pole. The rancher said, “somebody had to put him up their because he can not get up there by himself. Now that he is up there, he does not know what to do.” Let’s stop this turtle by voting for McCain. Yes, you are all right, the democrats do not care about the state of the nation, they are are in it for personal gains. For the first time in my life, I am ashamed of being part of the democratic party.

  487. A LITTLE REVOLUTION IS A GOOD THING! If you look back over the tone of comments, you begin to see what has happened to our party. On the one hand you have college educated, privileged, white collar people who are concerned with Darfur, abortion, the planet, political correctness and providing enhanced entitlements. On the other hand you have working class people who are worried about putting food on the table, paying their credit cards, putting gas in the family car and maintaining a roof over their heads.

    The first group is led by people like Nancy Pellosi (who is “trying to save the planet), Al Gore (who is rich, fat and rides around in a private jet as he lectures us about conservation), John Kerry (married to a woman who could pay off the national debt) and Dean (who is simply a zero). The problem is that Hillary Clinton was the ONLY person attempting to give voice to the concerns of the middle class.

    Those of us who have, or have had, dirt under our fingernails . . . or had to shuffle bills to figure out which ones to pay first . . . WE NEED TO TAKE BACK OUR PARTY! Our voices are being silenced by the small but powerful elitists and special interest groups. We are being accused of being disloyal because we care about our families, jobs, bills and the price of food and fuel.

    I wish I could be a Harvard educated “community organizer” with a wife who drags in a huge income. I wish I didn’t have to worry each month about paying my bills. Perhaps if some of our “leaders” had shared these simple experiences of life we might have better leadership.

    REVOLT! It was the working class of this country that made the Democratic Party during the depression. These Hollywood and privileged people inherited a legacy that was built on sweat and muscle, not Chardonnay and recreational drugs. Who do they think they are to lecture us about the values of this party? It seems to me that the problem with this election is the fact that our leaders have betrayed and squandered the values which were the core of our existence.

    Those of us who supported Hillary Clinton and are contemplating voting for McCain understand that the party has turned its back on us. It isn’t just about Hillary, it also about loosing touch with the middle class. It is about people who care more about trees, political correctness, and their personal power than they do about all of us who are working so hard to keep our heads above water. We shop at Kmart, cling to our religion and our guns – SO WHAT? We couldn’t care less about abstractions and don’t want to be lectured by those who believe we’re too stupid to know what’s good for us. We want to be safe, pay our bills, feed our families and sneak a little joy out of life. Look at the coalition which is Obama’s base and ask yourself ‘Are these my friends and neighbors?’ THIS IS WHY WE NEED TO TAKE OUR PARTY BACK!

    I’m sure that Obama supporters will try to find some ulterior motive for those of us who aren’t buying into his promises. We aren’t stupid, disloyal or racists . . . we are working class Americans who can find no common ground with this candidate. We admire his style and intelligence, but resent the fact that virtually every other candidate was better qualified. Those of you who support Obama need to stop whining and realize that you don’t represent a sizable and historic part of the Democratic Party (as we used to say before you changed it). Who knows, perhaps the leadership will finally awaken to the fact that they are betraying their real base!

  488. Thank you, Bruce. If we are unable to take back our party then we need a third party. The DNC has slapped the dinner bucket Democrats in the face—therefore win without us.

  489. Right on, Bruce. Well said. It’s like the DNC is run by trial lawyers and Hollywood types. No one’s there with any real life experiences and real life problems.

    I think the DNC is going to see a sizable group of people re-registering as independents.

  490. Folks,

    I went to an ivy league college and law school, eat arugula, drink chardonney, and I still won’t vote for him. Don’t discount your support.

    He is not qualified. I haven’t voted for a Republian for 40 years. I am voting for McCain. And I don’t think he is so bad.

  491. Just curious…how would everyone feel if Obama picked Hillary as VP? Not that I think it’s going to happen, but hypothetically speaking, what would your reaction be?

    I still think I would still not vote for Obama. After all, VP isn’t really an important post, unless the president dies. Also, it could mean Hillary wouldn’t get her shot in until 2016, and that’s way too far away.

  492. The ONLY reason Obama would select Hillary is to pick up votes. It would simply be an expedient to serve his own ends. It would also put an end to any hope she might have of becoming President.

    I would much rather Obama stand up and admit she is more qualified – ask her to be the party nominee – and have him move into the VP spot until he gains some experience and builds some sort of record. But, his ego won’t allow such a thing . . . and his Clinton-hating supports in the DNC would have a stroke.

    Besides, most of Obama’s people hate Hillary’s guts and would rather burn in hell before they would let Hillary in the door. They will never admit that they NEED her to get him elected.

  493. Gotcha. That’s how I look at it too. Just curious to hear all the opinions on the matter.

  494. I am amazed by people who think McCain will not be able to overturn Roe vs. Wade simply because previous Republican presidents have no been able to do so. Presidents Reagan, Bush 1 and Bush 2 have gradually added anti-Roe justices to the Supreme Court to turn the tide as those positions have opened up. If McCain is elected and chooses ONE judge there will be a five-to-four vote to overturn Roe. (McCain may have the opportunity to appoint as many as three new judges).

    Although I’m too old to worry about the result of illegal abortions, I cannot help open the door for my daughter’s generation to live with that same fear. I am old enough to remember the consequences.

    This is not something to be flippant about.

    We need to stop thinking only about our own anger, but the real impact of our vote on the lives of Americans.. Remember we are voting not simply for a president, but for an administration. An Obama administration will have the same or nearly the same cabinet as a Clinton administration with the same essential priorities. . We need to let go of the personality aspect and look at the solid differences in policies between the Rs and Ds. The Ds have many problems, but there are real implications in the ground for the lives of women and working families if the current Bush policies continue.

  495. If Roe v. Wade could have been overturned, don’t you think Bush would have done it?

    The abortion issue continues to polarize the extreme elements of both parties . . . acting as a touchstone for older voters . . . those who were sexually active prior to the advent of modern contraception.

    So far as I can see, abortion has become a form of racial cleansing. I know those who support abortion would violently object to this chacterization, but the figues speak for themselves. It is largely woman of color who rely on abortion for birth control.

    Perhaps the best thing would be if Obama came out against abortion. It is a difficult issue.

    This is an important election, and abortion is probably the least important issue in it. Hillary had the standing to address many challanges facing our nation . . . Obama does not. I cannot see voting for Obama simply because he is in favor of abortion.

    Obama’s people will be supressing the voices of those who supported Hillary at the convention. Our votes will count for NOTHING! OUR VOICES WILL NOT BE HEARD becauce Obama has special “teams” to keep us quiet and hold up large signs up so we can’t be seen. IS THIS THE GUY YOU WANT TO SUPPORT . . . even if he is for abortion?

    The arguement that McCain is another version of Bush is almost as absurd as the idea that Obama is joined at the hip to Bill Ayres. I think most of us would rather vote for the best qualified candidate . . . BUT, since SHE isn’t on the ballot, I will probably vote McCain or stay home.

  496. The following is a direct quote from POLITICO (8/22):

    Obama has often said, most recently on NBC’s “Meet the Press” on July 27, that Clinton “would be on anybody’s short list.”

    But apparently not his.

    “She was never vetted,” a Democratic official reported. “She was not asked for a single piece of paper. She and Senator Obama have never had a single conversation about it. How would he know if she’d take it?”

    The official also said Clinton never met with Obama’s vetting team of Eric Holder and Caroline Kennedy.

  497. Bruce,

    Thank you, that’s why I cannot vote for Mccain. I simply can’t do it. IMHO vote for Mccain in protest is voting against your “Core” principals.

    Just sayin’

  498. Principals? Read today’s NY Times about Obama supporters grousing that Hillary is too “tepid” in her support. Has Obama’s campaign stepped up to help pay Hillary’s campaign debt?

    Sorry you feel that “core principals” are being abandoned by not voting for a totally unqualified man instead of voting for a fully qualified woman.

    What core principals were the DNC big shots promoting when they shut the door on Hillary Clinton?

    If you REALLY believe in “CORE” principals, then have the guts to SAY NO! Otherwise, you may be turning your back on something larger and more important. How will women EVER take their rightful place when someone who has superior qualifications is shoved aside. Remember – more people cast their votes for Hillary!


  499. I’m not sure Obama’s cabinet would look anything like Hillary’s cabinet. They travel in very different circles. I’d worry about Obama picking a bunch of fruit cakes.

    The abortion thing is, obviously, very controvertial. Remember, though, even if Roe v Wade were overturned (and I think that is a remote possibility) it would not mean illegalization of abortion. It would simply mean that each state would have to decide what they wanted to do. My prediction is that many states, if not most, would still keep it legal if Roe v Wade were overturned.

    McCain is not Bush. Not by a long shot. His big deal is controlling government waste, and eliminating earmark spending, whereby congressmen push through their pet project that benefit their own personal finances and fleece the taxpayer. Frankly, I don’t think McCain really cares about abortion so much. He has other priorities and he’s just beating the anti-abortion drum to keep Anne Coulter and Rush Limbaugh happy.

    I think we all agree with Bruce that Hillary should have gotten the nomination and the DNC really screwed up in picking the less experience candidate who got fewer votes cast. The question is, now that it’s done, what are we going to do about it?

    All I can say is, if Obama wins the election, Hillary will probably never be president. If McCain wins, she still has a very good chance.

  500. Obama won’t pay my debts either.
    Clinton made the debt, Clinton owns the debt.
    Just like I have to pay for my own debts.

    PUMA has the right idea – almost.
    What should happen is the emergence of an 18 million strong 3rd party with Hillary as the nominee.

    Some think it would just kil the democrat party.
    It will.
    At the same time, there are enough independents who are leaning McCain but would vote Clinton if given the opportunity.
    There are also many unhappy republicans that would vote clinton.

    The 2 party system is bad for America and PUMA actually has a chance to make real change by offering a valid 3rd party candidate.
    Not an alternative party like we have today. An actual mainstream 3rd party.

    Perot came close (shame he was a lunatic).
    PUMA can make a 3rd party reality

  501. Caroline makes excellent points. I think she is totally on the mark with the abortion issue . . . and the fact that it would be virtually impossible to turn back the clock.

    The problem with Obama is the stretch we have to make to justify his mistakes in judgement, mis-statements, questionable associations, lack of record and total inexperience.

    As Democrats we are supposed to trust in the concept of equal opportunity for all . . . based on achievement and qualification. The DNC betrayed that trust when they pandered to Barack Obama.

    Hillary in 2012! There isn’t a prayer Obama can get the nomination a second time. Without the caucus system and the super-deligates, he wouldn’t have it now.

  502. A 3rd party would be an excellent achievement, and it’s something people have been wanting a long time. Fact is, though, there just ain’t enough time to set one up for election 2008. I also view Hillary as such a strong Democrat, she would never leave the party to run on her own, tempting though it might be. If we’re so dissappointed in the DNC, imagine how she must feel! Still, her best shot is for 2012, as a Democrat.

    But that can ONLY happen if Obama doesn’t get the presidency in 2008. If McCain takes it, and the DNC gets itself squared away, counts Florida and Michigan again, I agree that Obama wouldn’t get the nomination a seciond time. That is why I think I should vote for McCain. I think I can put up with him for 4 years, if it means Hillary has a good shot at it for 2012.

  503. I sympathize with the great ongoing disappointment that some Clinton supporters feel (I would have felt the same keen disappointment had Barack not won, since I am one of his most ardent supporters), but we as democrats need to keep the larger picture in mind. I agree with the great majority of the democratic party, that Clinton and Obama are much much closer in philosophy than McCain and Clinton could ever be. If McCain wins, his appointments to the Supreme Court alone would devastate this country (what would happen to Roe vs Wade and a woman’s right to choose??) – not to mention the fact that with his natural belligerence, this country would undoubtedly enter into another war with …. (take your pick) Iran or perhaps on the side of Georgia against Russia at some point – and there’s a very real possibility that the draft would have to be reinstated. If you truly care about democratic issues, it is important to vote for Obama (even if you do so grudgingly). In a democratic administration, Hillary would play a very prominent part and would be absolutely crucial in the development of a universal health plan or perhaps as a cabinet member – and she could still run for president again at a future time.
    PUMA members need to be very careful…..If PUMA attempts to sabotage Barack’s election to the presidency and he is not elected, the great multitude of Obama supporters will well remember if Hillary tries to run for the presidency in 2012. The payback would be hell, and even if nominated, she would not win. Please let us not enter into 8 years of intraparty warfare, for if we do, we face nothing but Republican presidents for the foreseeable future. As a democrat, Hillary has a brighter future in the next 4 to 8 years if the next administration is democratic.
    By the way, third parties have never been successful in our country; the two party system is too ingrained in our culture and mindset.
    Thanks and have a good day.

  504. The major problem I have with that is, in my heart of hearts, I do not believe Obama won the nomination. He wiggled into it, the rules were bent, and he stole it. I feel Obama did something very similar to what Bush did in 2000. If we Hillary supporters fall in line and get behind Obama, that’s like saying it was all OK. OK to not count Florida and Michigan. OK to ignore the popular vote and play games with this delegate thing. I really feel the whole democratic process was violated, and I just can’t get over that. I never forgave Bush either.

    I will support the DNC when they get their honor back.

  505. I suggest if the 18 million gave a dollar each Hillary should be able to pay her debts and her employee.

  506. Not a bad suggestion, Gemma. Maybe make it a buck and a half. The debt is 24 million.

  507. I am so sick of Obama people trying to tell me how to vote. I will be damned if you think I can support this man, with such inexperience. And so called “change”! What change? He is all talk. I will vote for McCain. He did not even have the decency to consider Hillary as his VP. To hell with him!

  508. I am not sure why I even bother checking these things out. The idea of a third party is a good one, although not practical for this election. The idea that you vote for McCain to “spite” Obama is absurd. Yes, I use the word spite, because that is what it really is. People point out that she got 18 millions votes, so did Obama. Would you think that the voters that Obama got would be “disheartened” and work to destroy the chance of the DNC? If they had what would you be saying to them, think about it a little bit please. I am not telling you how to vote, just to put your emotions aside and think. I truly, truly have no idea why the most hard core of you want to put McCain in office just so you can say,”See he could not do it without Hillary!” Is that how you want to set up this country? The world already has a pretty bad idea of what an American is, this is just cementing the idea that we are a bunch of self-centered spoiled people with the mentality of a high-school child. By the way, I am not saying you are this way, just that we are ALL viewed this way from the outside.
    I don’t think it matters who I vote for because this organisation has already picked the next president, and it is not Hillary. This is almost like changing the Constitution so that the Govinator could run for president.
    I think I will move to Canada, they at least understand that they are the butt of jokes.

  509. P.S. I understand that nothing I say here will matter. Nor will it change anyones mind. I am not trying to be volitile, just trying to make a point.

  510. Gosh – BIDEN? Obama must REALLY have gotten the message about his inexperience in foreign policy to have picked Joe Biden.

    Now there is Obama who talks without saying anything paired with Joe Biden who never stops talking.

    The unfortunate part is that Joe Biden has said some VERY negative things about Barack Obama and now has to swallow his pride or confess that he doesn’t think before he talks.

    GREAT CHOICE OBAMA! Now we can finally have Hillary in 2012! But at least when Obama tanks in November his supporters can blame him (which they will NEVER do . . . and instead try to put this all on Hillary).


  512. Gareth, Please be clear on one thing. Those of us who supported Hillary have a very important choice to make. Speaking for myself, I am NOT allowing spite or anger to direct any of this. I have thought about this very carefully. I truly think Obama would be a dangerous choice. You just can’t hop and skip into the highest office in the land from being a civic activist followed by a junior senator that was never actually in charge of anything.

    McCain is really actually not all that bad. I look at how much he’s hated by Rush Limbaugh and Anne Coulter and I think, “Maybe this guy isn’t too bad.”

    The Biden choice doesn’t make sense to me. He was the one that was trying to get McCain to run with John Kerry.

    This will be interesting when the debates begin.

  513. Nancy, I realize Hillary’s campaign made major mistakes. Maybe the biggest mistake was not having Bill Clinton participate more.

    But the biggest mistake of all was how the DNC handled the Florida and Michigan problem. They just decided to disenfranchise the 2 most important swing states in the country. Very foolish.

  514. Also, about the abortion issue, I just don’t think America is in any real danger of losing abortion rights. The Right wingers like to act like they have a real chance of illegalizing abortion, but the fact is, they are a vocal minority. Most people understand that it’s necessary to keep as a safe option, and it’s a public health issue more than anything.


  516. I would caution the DEMOCRATIC PARTY members to think about what is being advocated here. If your intent is to permanently dismantle the Democratic Party, then proceed. If the issues of traditional importance to democratic principles are no longer worth the fight, then proceed.

  517. This is getting silly.

    I note that Nancy can only MESSAGE IN CAPS! Gosh, does this mean that she can only scream at people?

    Let’s try to respect the other person’s opinion and not try to beg the issues. Many of us just don’t see Obama as a qualified presidential candidate. Many of us were devoted to Hillary for a number of reasons, not the least of which being that she was fully qualified.

    Obama has now chosen Joe Biden . . . a man who says entirely too much, entirely too often. He is the ultimate Washington insider and has very strong ties to lobbiest, lawyers and bankers. So much for the idea of “change”.

    All the talk in the world about court appointments, abortion rights, etc. doesn’t make up for Obama’s lack of experience (a lack that was voiced so precisely by none other than Joe Biden). Obama is an attractive, glittering and dangerously inexperienced.

    If not Hillary, then John McCain now. Hillary in 2012!

  518. […] having chosen Hillary the Harpie, there may be hell to pay. The PUMAs will be up in arms at the convention; the only question is whether the noise and fury will mean […]

  519. There are exactly 2 (two) requirements or qualifications for service to the Presidency:

    1. Born in the United States, which includes US territories, commonwealths, and military bases on foreign soil.

    2. Must be a minimum of 35 years of age on Election Day.

    That is it and Barack Hussein Obama meets the criteria.

    There is NO preparation for this job. There are 3 people on Earth with Presidential experience and each will verify that their tenures were nothing like each others. It is a 4 year “odyssey” with no maps, blueprints, or givens.

    The Commander-In-Chief is (one) if not THE most powerful position and responsibility on Earth. For these reasons, it is JUDGMENT, not experience, that MAY be the difference between a successful tenure or one of less success. The REST…is a crapshoot.

  520. Gareth, I am in complete agreement with you. And yes, our appeals are seemingly falling on deafened ears. The agenda is secondary to the personalities. And…that is NOT a “party” in the political sense.

  521. Caroline Says:
    Still, her best shot is for 2012, as a Democrat.
    Do you honestly believe that OTHER democrats….who stayed with the Party, through Bill, though Al, though Kerry, and though Obama because we “accepted the rules” and didn’t go home because our primary choice didn’t get the nomination, are just going to forget about 2008?

    In all honesty, Obama can’t win without you …and Hillary can’t win without ME!

  522. I am totally in agreement with dreadneck. I love Hillary but do you think that African Americans will run to the polls to vote for Hillary in 2012 if Obama loses? And since when has a Democrat won without the support of the blacks?

    I dont even beleive some of you are Democrats to start with. Go back and tell Karl Rove he can’t have another four years of distructive politcs.

  523. Dreadneck,

    “There is NO preparation for this job.”


    Tell me you’re not serious.

    And when it comes to judgement, I’m sorry. I can’t get past his spiritual mentor’s, “God Damn America,” stuff. It was bad judgement to have that guy his pastor for 20 years.

  524. Also, this idea of, “Permanently dismantling” the Democratic party is off the mark. I feel I want to save the Democratic Party by not having eroded from within. I’m very concerned about electing someone who just doesn’ have what it takes. I would rather have a Republican elected than a Democrat who I feel would do a lousy job. I would rather see McCain take it and kind of screw it up, than see Obama take it and really screw it up and leave Hillary with NO chance of getting it right for 2012. Things were really good under Bill Clinton, remember. Democrats haven’t been that strong since the Kennedy days.

  525. Dear PUMA and others of like mind,
    You are close to becoming the puppets of political powers that stand for everything you hate. You will be played by the Right over the next few weeks as a weapon against your own party. Please take care to see who is funding your “cause” and who will give you the most air time (probably Fox News).
    I’ve supported Obama since last November, but would’ve happily voted for HRC if he lost. Just on issues alone (remember those) he is very similar to HRC. I honestly figure you must dislike this country to support a dangerous candidate like McCain (who’ll continue the Bush doctrine and sink us further into debt) just out of bitterness.
    As a patriot, I would’ve voted for just about anybody else but a Republican this year. Haven’t we had enough?

  526. Waahhh!
    Hillary didn’t win so I’m going to overturn Roe v Wade by electing McCain.

    Hillary didn’t win so I’m going to elect a man who called his wife a cunt. In public.

    If Obama supporters exude a sort of adolescent puppy love, what does is the maturity level of PUMA who want to take their ball and go home because their candidate didn’t win?

    Bruce says the Supreme Court and abortion rights is overblown and he would rather see McCain in 08 and Hillary in 12. Bruce has passed manopause so he no longer cares about a woman’s right to choose. My guess is, the vast majority of PUMA members have passed manopause or menopause and so they no longer care about back alley abortions. My wife’s sister bled to death after undergoing a back alley abortion in Ethiopia.

    If Bruce thinks a court run by Scalia and Thomas is overblown, then Bruce is a republican. If Bruce and PUMA would rather see the experienced John McBush wag his dick at Iraq, Iran, Russia et. al, then you are republicans. If it’s only about experience, then would you vote for Cheney over Obama if the former had sought and won the GOP nomination?

  527. New blogger here.
    I am astounded that Obama did not choose Hillary.
    Biden is a total dufus that even admitted Obama is not ready to be President only a few months back.

    I know who I am voting for.

    McCain 08’/ Hillary 12′

  528. Barack Obama wanted to disenfranchise millions of voters.

    Payback is coming in November!!

  529. Look, at the end of the day, we are all still American citizens who have a right to vote as we each see fit, so there shall be no more entreaties from me.

    But, if it is not too much trouble, I have one question for Caroline.

    Caroline, would you care to tell us, precisely, HOW one attains Presidential experience…without having served in the office?

    I’ll thank you in advance and won’t interfere with the proceeding any further. Good luck, all!

  530. Well, Dreadneck, I think the experience I’m talking about is having been in charge of something major, and made important decisions, and having to have made difficult calls. Preferably, you would not be a relative new comer to the affairs of governement. You would have been around the scene long enough to have made a bunch of really good competent contacts whom you could draw upon when faced with important decisions. And I think you should have served in some kind of office prior to the presidency.

    Now, one can properly argue that Hillary hasn’t held office all that much more than Obama, as a relatively new Senator herself, but let’s face it. She’s been around the scence far more and has a better grasp of how the whole thing works.

    But my concern goes beyond the experience issue. I’m talking about the other critical factor Dreadneck mentioned. JUDGEMENT. I get the strong impression that Obama, up until now, has kept company with an element that I think is bad for America. Specifically, I’m talking about Louis Farrakan, Jeremiah Wright, and the Weather Underground and so forth. Also if you read between the lines, he espouses many socialist, boardering on Communist theories that I think are just bad for America.

    This isn’t about whining or being a sore loser. It’s about thinking about what’s good for my country, as I see it.

    PS…love your name, Dreadneck!

  531. It’s also horrible to hear that Chiy’s sister died from a botched abortion. That should never happen. It’s just that I think deep down, there is a sizable majority in the USA that want to keep abortions safe and legal. I think a lot of what the Right spouts off is just rhetoric. It reminds me of the American experience with prohibition. A loud, mouthy minority pushed for banning alcohol, until they realized that people still drank just as much but they couldn’t control it.

    People know, deep down, that if they illegalized abortion, people would still have them just as much, but then you have a dead embryo WITH a dead woman.

    As for menapause, and manopause, don’t forget…we have daughters, and that’s just as important.

  532. Scott, about “Sinking us further into debt,” and ‘continuing the Bush doctrine,” :

    It’s important to recognize one thing about McCain, something that sets him apart from all of the “Business as usual,” in Washington. He has always been a strong proponent of eliminating earmark spending. That is the congressional habit of pushing through spending for pet projects that personally financially benefit the congressmen. For example, get federal spending to build a bridge no one wants or needs, and get my son-in-law’s construction company to build it. McCain is strong against government waste, and maybe if he were in charge, we could catch up on this debt, finally. Don’t forget, he voted against Bush’s tax cut TWICE because he saw no effort to control spending.

    At the risk of being called a Rove puppet, I put forth my opinion, and I’m willing to look at the candidate’s record, instead of partisan politics.

  533. Thanks very much Caroline. it is quite clear from your point of view that you were never a democrat. The only reason that will lead you to endorse mccain over Obama despite the similarities in the plat forms of Obama and Hillary is because you are to disunite democrates and my fellow democrats are too blind to know that.

    The idea that you will vote for Mccain who intend to make abortion illegal, who wants to privatize social security, who wants to give tax breaks to big corperations despite our huge national deficit, who wants to keep us in Irag for another 100 yrs and who does not intend to raise the minimum wage is dumb and unbelievable. You are nothing but a republicans deguising as a Hillary supporter. You Kno you would never have voted for Hillary regardless of the current situation. My fellow democrats not all that glitters are gold…..check this out.

  534. Nancy,

    I agree that McCain says he intends to make abortion illegal. I just don’t believe he would really try all that hard, and I sincerely doubt he ( nor any other president) would succeed. The consequences would be disasterous, and immediately obvious.

    I DO NOT believe McCain supports big tax breaks for corpotations. His record is clear on that. I believe he is most concerned about the welfare of the average, hard working, play by the rules Americans.

    I also disagree that McCain “WANTS” to be in Iraq for another 100 years. He would pull out tomorrow if the circumstances were right. But the circumstances aren’t right AT THIS MOMENT. He is willing to wait until the circumstances are right. That speaks to honor and serving a purpose higher than one’s own self interest.

    If you doubt my sincerity as a Hillary supporter, all I can say is, I am dismayed. It is possible YOU are being played the fool by your own group.

    I place my loyalty to my own convictions over party politics anytime. I believe politicians too frequently place self interest over a greater good.

    Can I be a loyal Democrat and still support another candidate? WIll you require I relinquish my Democratic Party card if I don’t fall in line? When my conscience leads me otherwise?

    Freedom of thought? Freedom of speech? Anyone hearing me?


  535. Blah Blah Blah — Nothing to see here.

    (Edited by Site Moderator)

  536. I have voted Republican in the past, and come from a Family of Republicans. I am a Hillary supporter, and seeing REAL democrats stand up and be counted in this way gives me a new respect for some of the Democratic party. Stay strong. Hold your ground, act like the self-directed adults you are, and I just may switch parties.

  537. I’m a registered Democrat who has been voting Republican and the DNC is one of the reasons why. I never used to like Hillary, but I admired her strength and toughness and the way she ran in the primary. I think it is disgraceful the way the DNC and the Obama campaign have treated such a worthy opponent who gathered 18 million votes. If Obama really wanted to win, he should have told Michelle to shut up and chosen Hillary. He never even consulted them about the VP pick. He has consistently showed disrespect to her . I hope you guys put her name over the top at the convention and show the DNC the will of the real people. Go PUMA’s!!

  538. Blah Blah Blah — Nothing to see here.

    (Edited by Site Moderator)

  539. Blah Blah Blah — Nothing to see here.

    (Edited by Site Moderator)

  540. I think you can support Hillary and at the same time NOT do everything she asks. It’s good to keep an independent mind in the polling booth.

  541. BTW Who is talking about rioting?

  542. 2 words. Supreme Court!

  543. Caroline:

    McCain doesn’t have to do a thing to reverse Roe v Wade except for appoint one more judge to the Court.

    You act as if McCain and / or American voters will make this choice. The courts will make the choice. One more right wing justice and Scalia and Thomas will be writing most of the majority opinions. Not just on abortion.

    You are republican. You are spouting the same talking points as Sean Hannity. Wright, the Weather Underground, give me a break. Socialist? Communist? Who does your buddy Hannity pal around with? Mark Fuhrman. Mel Gibson. What was John McCains position on the MLK holiday? For years he opposed it, nationally then locally. Now when he’s facing election he changes his tune on the holiday. That’s leadership? Keating 5. That’s leadership? Campaign full of lobbyists. That’s the connections you’re looking for?

    You are a republican. That’s fine. But call your hatred of Obama what it is.

  544. I am registered democrat, and was a Hillary supporter. When she did not get the democratic nomination for President I started looking else where. I know some are voting for McCain, but I will be voting for the independent third party candidate, Nader. I have a son in Iraq. My family and friends are struggling to make ends meet. I’ve looked at the issues closely, and Nader/Gonzalez is for me. Take a look at their website and see what you think. I hope everyone that is disenchanted with the Democratic Party does vote, just NOT for Obama.

  545. Blah Blah Blah — Nothing to see here.

    (Edited by Site Moderator)

  546. Chiy,

    I’m pretty sure I haven’t said one hateful thing the whole time I have been posting. I don’t hate Obama. I just have a lot of strong doubts about him, as I have outlined.

    If Roe V Wade were overturned, and I doubt it would be, the decision of the legality of abortion would go back to the states. Then it would be up to the state lawmakers, responding to their constituants, to decide what they want to do. The states that want it would keep it legal. If any state were stupid enough to illegalize it, they would quickly realize the stupidity of it.

    Besides, there are many other important issues to consider. I have never been a “one issue” voter. Nor should anyone.

    I am a moderate Democrat, and I think a moderate in office is something this country has been craving for a long while. That is why I am such a strong Hillary supporter. She has a level head and could steer this country on a straight, solid path.

    If moderate Democrats keep being labelled “Republicans” by less moderate Democrats, you might see the moderate element leave the party to become independent. Look at Joe Liberman. I want to keep the party from eroding from within.

  547. BTW capitalism was never healthier than under Bill Clinton. Wall street can do very nicely under a Democratic president, thank you very much.

  548. I note a great number of unpleasant voices having been added over the past few days . . . Obama groupies, not doubt.

    Let me make it perfectly clear to you. First, I am a life-long Democrat . . . not some “ture believer” who focuses on a single issue. I am also a life member of the NAACP, not some jackass who is unfamiliar with the struggle for civil rights. So, to have some johnny-come-lately Obama supporter lecture me about the court, abortion, or anything else is not only insulting, but points to the problem many of us have with people talk a lot, but haven’t EARNED their place at the table.

    Hillary is qualified . . . Obama is not. PERIOD! Now, if you think that is disloyal, then you aren’t living up to the true values and principals of the party that I’ve supported over a lifetime.

    Respect the opinons of others . . . even if you don’t agree. Otherwise, you will never change anything. Perhaps if you had paid some attention to Hillary’s message, you might have picked up on that concept.

  549. Blah Blah Blah — Nothing to see here.

    (Edited by Site Moderator)

  550. Blah Blah Blah — Nothing to see here.

  551. I posted a respectful; post disagreeing with PUMA and I am edited by PUMA’s site moderator ? Nothing to see here move along? quite funny you censor fellow democrats who disagree with you while complaining about not being heard or misrepresented by other democrats. your true colors show Mike Watkins

  552. I posted a link to a mccain video showing his reaction to hillary . In it the Mccain supporter says “how do we stop the b*****?” and Mccain just laughs and gvie his reply. I guess it doesnt fit in with the narrative of this guerilla republican site . the video is up on you tube . search “mccain supporter asks question about hillary’ and watch this post didappear as well

  553. pleeeeease, folks…..if u don’t vote, u help obama. if u vote for a third candidate (who will not get enough votes to win) u help obama. even if u hate mccain, voting for him is the only way to take votes away from obama. the obama bin biden campaign wants to scare u re roe wade, but even bush didnt change it. oh, and to all those obama lemmings – u dont care about hillary supporters so u dont care about their votes. u have had everything handed to you but your false god will not be president.

  554. I agree with you Mike, because my message is no longer posted on this site. Is this Freedom of Speech?

  555. What I want to know is, is the DNC going to change anything about how they run the primary process after all this. What is going to happen if a state moves their primary up again? Are they going to ditch this “Super Delegate,” process? I’m looking ahead to 2012. I just think it’s so ironic that Hillary got the popular vote, but lost the primary election, which is the SAME thing that we were outraged about in 2000. Does the DNC not see the hypocracy?

  556. “Respect the opinons of others . . . even if you don’t agree. Otherwise, you will never change anything. Perhaps if you had paid some attention to Hillary’s message, you might have picked up on that concept.” posted above from Bruce : a PUMA supporter ,,,err so bruce does that apply to people who disagree with your positions as well ,because evidently your site moderators havent read your post either .

  557. If you help throw this election to that senile ‘nam crazed traitor I hope he starts a war WE LOSE and everyone you love dies in it.

  558. “Respect the opinons of others . . . even if you don’t agree. Otherwise, you will never change anything. Perhaps if you had paid some attention to Hillary’s message, you might have picked up on that concept.”

    Mike watkins, on August 24th, 2008 at 6:19 pm Said:
    Blah Blah Blah — Nothing to see here.

    (Edited by Site Moderator)

    the way it appeared on list . I called no names , disparged no ones character or beliefs , made respecful disagreement and this is the response .. irony here is pretty rich bruce you have to agree .

  559. I voted for Hillary in the primaries. The Republicans are always selling out the big picture for short term gains. To handicap Obama might make some of us feel good in the short run but another 4-8 years of a Republican President is not in our or our country’s or the world’s best interest.

  560. Who are you people? If you don’t get off your myopic high horse and help us win, you will be at fault. Why would you think your foolish cause will achieve anything but chaos. If you want to help Hill-Hill, paid off her debt. If you want to help the country, vote for Obama! I swear, PUMAs are the new hilbillies

  561. garychapelhill, on July 12th, 2008 at 9:04 am Said:
    JW said

    “The mess in FL and MI was a very bad thing, but let’s put the blame where it belongs: on the decision makers in those states who made the poor choice to break the rules and invalidate their own elections. ”

    What is really disheartening is the lack of knowledge or respect for democracy by obamaphiles. The Democratic Party does not oversee elections in this country, the various states do. The election in Fl was a VALID election, certified by the state election board. It was a poor choice for the DNC to try to circumvent democracy by disenfranchising the more than 2 million people who voted in Florida. They should be ashamed, and you, JW, should inform yourself more thoroughly

    as should gary , theedwards.clinton .obama richardson campaigns all supported the DNC’s decison to penalise these states for jumping the dates ..the difference is the clinton campaign changed their tune as it got later in the elction process and the realized they had underestimated the caucus states …you are welcome to your opinion but not the facts .

  562. How about all of you get your heads out of your asses? Hillary was a strong candidate, but she lost. What was Obama supposed to do, just turn his nomination over to her? This is the real world where there are winners and losers. You have to look at the bigger picture, which is turning this country around and if you were all big supporters of Hillary than there is no reason you shouldn’t be a supporter of Obama, except that you are sitting around whining about Hillary losing. We all know that Hillary’s and Obama’s voting records are very similar and that they both drastically differ with McCain’s. If you care at all about fixing our economy, global warming, and foreign policy than you’ll vote Obama. There was no dumb conspiracy in the primaries so if you have ever considered yourselves progressive than you’ll stop your crying and do what is best for the country…unless you really want another 4-8 years of this absolute bullshit. Get over yourselves and end this stupid PUMA crap!!!

  563. Well, I can’t say who, “You people,” are, but I can tell you who I am. I am a nurse, a Catholic, divorced mother of 3 grown kids and 2 grand kids. I have worked my whole life, and voted Democratic most of the time. I consider myself a moderate and believe me, NEITHER side can win without the support of moderates. The government doesn’t function well without moderates. I just think if Obama wins, he’ll take so much crap and road blocks from the Republicans in Congress that he’ll be ineffective.

    You have to have some one in there who can see both sides of an issue, work with the opposition to get things done, be able to reach compromises. That’s one of McCain’s big strengths. It’s Hillary’s strength, too, but it’s clear she’s out.

    I’m having a really hard time watching the convention. This was really supposed to be Hillary’s. She got the popular vote. ARRGG.

    Anyway, whatever side of this issue you take, one thing is sure and we ALL can take comfort in: Whoever wins this election IT WILL NOT BE BUSH! YAY!

  564. Dear Obama supporters-You are welcome to your version of reality.

    Here’s mine:

    I live in Florida. I got raped by the DNC. I am NOT supporting Obama. Have a nice day. You can take your-ahem–“facts” and stick where the sun don’t shine.

    Obama people fought LIKE HELL to make sure that those votes would not count.

    The reality is that 3 million people, of all colors, races, religions and socio-economic backgrounds got RAPED by the DNC because and ONLY because the majority of them supported Hillary Clinton.

    If my fellow rapees wants to turn around and thank their rapists by supporting their candidate, that is their choice.

    Did you and your party actually believe there would be no reprecussions to this atrocity?

    Payback, as the saying goes, is a mother.

  565. PS: PUMA, baby! FOREVER!!

  566. Alice–I have been carrying every cultural stereotype on back with this party for over 30 years. You have kids–that’s YOUR responsibility. So are your grandkids.

    You don’t like this country, get off your as* and leave.

    You must be very young, dear. You want to be an adult, act like one. No one is telling you not to vote for your candidate.

    It’s always the same story with the lactating liberals, isn’t it?

  567. PS: What I find utterly astounding but perhaps NOT so surprising is that your response to me, Alice, totally ignores the rape of the voters of two states.

    Tell me, dear: What did YOU do to ensure that 3 million votes counted?

    O, yes. But you are not spiteful are you, dear?

    As for my vote, I like and respect John McCain, even if I do not agree with him on every issue.

    I have nothing against Barack Obama. However, there are consequences to one’s actions…but don’t worry. I lived through 8 years of Reagan and 12 years of the Bushes, and I am JUST FINE.

  568. A REAL DEMOCRAT party would have counted ALL it’s votes, dear.

    A REAL DEMOCRAT party would have never treated Hillary Clinton and her supporters with such a blatant lack of respect and then expect to be thanked for it.

    You can run, but you can’t hide. If you and all the Obama supporters out there did NOTHING, you are guilty of sabatoging the party you claim to love. Because a REAL DEMOCRAT believes that EVERY VOICE counts.

  569. The individuals from PUMA need to get a life. The Republican Party is having a field day because of the Democratic Party’ s immature attitude towards the nomination process. Barack Obama won the nomination. If you can’t accept that by all means become a Republican,Independent, etc.As far as I’m concerned fitth graders are more mature than the people from PUMA.

  570. I think the DNC really need to take a lesson from this one. If Hillary just lost fair and square, that would be disappointing, but not infuriating. A lot of us are very angry because we feel Obama has been rammed down our throats. It looks to me that things were fudged and juggled, against the will of the majority of the party. A slim majority, I’ll grant you, but a majority nonetheless.

    I mean really…NOT COUNT FLORIDA??!! AND MICHIGAN??!! I just can’t get over that one. Hillbilly for Hillary, your state counts the most. It always comes down to Florida.

  571. Dear D for OB–Your indignation for the disenfranchised has been duly noted. What have you done for the party lately, dear?

    Consequences for one’s actions, dear. This is America, the land of personal responsibility. Every citizen is allowed a vote–if you were not part of the solution–helping get the FL and MI votes counted–then you were part of the problem–disenfranchising fellow Dems because you did not like their candidate. YOU ARE GUILTY of helping your cadidate lose. Suck it up and TAKE RESPONSIBILITY for YOUR ACTIONS. Your silence has not saved you.

  572. God Bless you, Caroline, and thank you. You sound like a real Democrat. It broke my heart to leave the party. I voted for Carter back in the day. But enough is enough.

    McCain is a good and decent man who has served his country well. I admire his service and dedication to America, even if I am a pro-choice feminist, lol. But we have to take a stand and let the party know what it has lost.

  573. Written by Dr. Jack Wheeler

    The O-man, Barack Hussein Obama, is an eloquently tailored empty suit. No resume, no accomplishments, no experience, no original ideas, no understanding of how the economy works, no understanding of how the world works, no balls, nothing but abstract empty rhetoric devoid of real substance.

    He has no real identity. He is half-white, which he rejects. The rest of him is mostly Arab, which he hides but is disclosed by his non-African Arabic surname and his Arabic first and middle names as a way to triply proclaim his Arabic parentage to people in Kenya . Only a small part of him is African Black from his Luo grandmother, which he pretends he is exclusively.

    What he isn’t, not a genetic drop of, is ‘African-American,’ the descendant of enslaved Africans brought to America chained in slave ships. He hasn’t a single ancestor who was a slave. Instead, his Arab ancestors were slave owners. Slave-trading was the main Arab business in East Africa for centuries until the British ended it.

    Let that sink in: Obama is not the descendant of slaves, he is the descendant of slave owners. Thus he makes the perfect Liberal Messiah.

    Its something Hillary doesn’t understand – how some complete neophyte came out of the blue and stole the Dem nomination from her. Obamamania is beyond politics and reason. It is a true religious cult, whose adherents reject Christianity yet still believe in Original Sin, transferring it from the evil of being human to the evil of being white.

    Thus Obama has become the white liberals’ Christ, offering absolution from the Sin of Being White. There is no reason or logic behind it, no faults or flaws of his can diminish it, no arguments Hillary could make of any kind can be effective against it.

    The absurdity of Hypocrisy Clothed In Human Flesh being their Savior is all the more cause for liberals to worship him: Credo quia absurdum, I believe it because it is absurd.

    Thank heavens that the voting majority of Americans remain Christian and are in no desperate need of a phony savior.

    His candidacy is ridiculous and should not be taken seriously by any thinking American

  574. “Let that sink in: Obama is not the descendant of slaves, he is the descendant of slave owners. Thus he makes the perfect Liberal Messiah.

    Its something Hillary doesn’t understand – how some complete neophyte came out of the blue and stole the Dem nomination from her. Obamamania is beyond politics and reason. It is a true religious cult, whose adherents reject Christianity yet still believe in Original Sin, transferring it from the evil of being human to the evil of being white.

    Thus Obama has become the white liberals’ Christ, offering absolution from the Sin of Being White. There is no reason or logic behind it, no faults or flaws of his can diminish it, no arguments Hillary could make of any kind can be effective against it.

    The absurdity of Hypocrisy Clothed In Human Flesh being their Savior is all the more cause for liberals to worship him: Credo quia absurdum, I believe it because it is absurd.

    Thank heavens that the voting majority of Americans remain Christian and are in no desperate need of a phony savior.

    His candidacy is ridiculous and should not be taken seriously by any thinking American”

    and these nuts claim to represent not only Hillary but the dem party .. youare disaffected democrats? you are the right wing of the “bring us home to eden party ”

  575. Okay girls, I hope you get another John Roberts on the bench and then you can really say you showed Obama. Let me tell you all if you spoiled brats continue you deserve the government you elect. Enjoy another 4 years of George Bush and Karl Rove. You make me sick.

  576. “I live in Florida. I got raped by the DNC. I am NOT supporting Obama. Have a nice day. You can take your-ahem–”facts” and stick where the sun don’t shine. ” wow the democratic party raped you …really? could you describe that to a woman who really suffered the act as opposed to the local party being stripped of deldgates which all agreed to before hand including clinton .. was their hot breath on your neck , a rape kit .etc ..tell us how that compares to the actual act . snorts

  577. I can’t help wonder what would be happening if the situation were reversed. Just suppose that Obama won the popular vote and, by not counting Florida and Michigan, and by lowering the number of delegates needed to get the nomination, suddenly Hillary was the nominee.

    How do you think the Obama supporters would react?Can you imagine the outcry? Every Al Sharpton wannabe would be out there with their electric bullhorns crying FOUL! You want to see chaos? It would be the Watts riots all over again. Some of us are old enough to remember those.

    No, I think PUMA is a far more civilized form of protest.

  578. You don’t like this country, get off your as* and leave.

    You must be very young, dear. You want to be an adult, act like one. No one is telling you not to vote for your candidate.

    It’s always the same story with the lactating liberals, isn’t it?

    Hillbilly for hillary …errr some of us just try to stay and fix what we dont agree with..you know its our country as for lactating liberals ..what if you are breastfeding your children your vote doesnt count ? odd view for anyone curious as to what that was supposed to mean,and how you are supposed to be a clinton /democrat deprvied of your vote . most of you here sound like closet republcians who were neveregonna vote dem anyhow

  579. How do you think the Obama supporters would react?Can you imagine the outcry? Every Al Sharpton wannabe would be out there with their electric bullhorns crying FOUL! You want to see chaos? It would be the Watts riots all over again. Some of us are old enough to remember those.

    No, I think PUMA is a far more civilized form of protest.

    err as a white male supporter in my 50’s of obama who vored for bill clinton twice , you sound like a republican , hilaary lost and if obama had lost there would be race riots ? really .. interesting supposition . and blacks are after your grand mother , your job , your parking spot …and you know he is really a secret muislim jihaadist .. cough .. lets see if obama wins the convention he will make all democratic women wear the muslim head piece … the sky is falling .. and I am a puma

  580. While it is true that Hillary came in a close second, the fact remains that she didn’t win. With regard to finances her campaign was badly mismanaged, and it took her too long to settle on a message. She came across in Iowa as though she thought she were entitled to be crowned the party’s nominee, and that attitude did not help her. Obama, on the other hand, presented a consistent message, figured out a strategy that could make a dark horse into a victor, ran a financially solvent campaign, outsmarted the establishment pols, and always took the high road. While Hillary flailed, he disciplined himself and his campaign and got the job done. His executive skills are unsurpassed in the political arena, as history will tell.

    Bill Clinton is still whining about his image when it was he himself who opened his mouth and voiced comments like the one about Jesse Jackson having won SC. If that wasn’t about race, I’ll eat my hat. It seems that what he and other sore losers have in common is an ability to project blame and an inability to take responsibility.
    Believe it or not, I used to be a Clinton supporter, and I thought the world of Bill Clinton. The longer he behaves like a spoiled, pouty brat – the longer it will take him to regain his status.

    The truth is that Obama is simply smarter, more disciplined, more in sync with the hearts and minds of those of us who want change, and more effective at organizing. He inspires young people, tis true. But I am a senior citizen, a woman, and a white, and I am inspired, too.

  581. Caroline says:
    How do you think the Obama supporters would react?Can you imagine the outcry? Every Al Sharpton wannabe would be out there with their electric bullhorns crying FOUL! You want to see chaos? It would be the Watts riots all over again. Some of us are old enough to remember those.

    No, I think PUMA is a far more civilized form of protest.
    Don’t fall for the false assumption that all of Obama’s support is BLACK. And don’t pretend that it is I who is attempting to introduce race into this conversation. It has never NOT been a part of it. I DON’T own an electric bullhorn and I don’t take to the streets at every slight or disappointment.

    I work, pay my taxes, cut my grass, and care for my dogs. I’m a college educated Air Force veteran who has avoided conflicts with the law, except for a few traffic violations during 25 years of driving. I’m not applying for sainthood. Sometimes, in the privacy of my home or with a friend or two, I’ll smoke a joint…maybe a few. I have a preference for imported beers, dating back to my days as an airman. With that introduction, I show how “normal” I am. I could be your neighbor.

    Your assumption that people that look like me have nothing better to do than wait around until we get our feelings hurt so that we can, in turn, throw a riot is rather narrow-minded. It is also highly offensive and without basis. It makes as much sense as me saying someone is going to blow up a Federal Building everytime a white person gets a disappointment. We all know that to be untrue. All whites are no more comparable to Tim McVeigh than all blacks to Sharpton

  582. WHATEVER our grievance, either Obama or McCain will be elected the next President in November. Votes for Nader, Barr or McKinney will be in protest only, because they do not have a chance to win. But that’s OK, because votes in protest have meaning, too. A vote for McCain is like biting off your nose to spite your face. I just don’t understand your hateful animosity towards Obama. If he were so unqualified and ran such a ‘mean’ campaign, why would Hillary support him? I think if we blame anybody for Hillary’s loss, it would be Mark Penn. Her staff did her no favors. I see Obama as a vast improvement over Bush the idiot, and McCain the war-mongering fool. We need to lick our wounds and act rationally and not make choices that will doom our sisters and children in the future.

  583. I am not Democrat, But i do know that Hillary was robbed and the Democrat party Hijacked just as terrorist hijacked islam. I am just appalled that most Democrats do not even so much as bat an eye when they see whats happening. I hate Injustices such as this and so for what its worth,Hillary has My Support.


  585. I am so damn tired of Dems using reproductive rights as a cattle prod. Hey, we’ve lived through 20 years of Republicans in the White House and abortion has not been made illegal. Stop with the bully tactics. Enough already!

  586. GXM – Thank you and “Amen”!

  587. T Vernon, thanks for telling me that voting for McKinney is “okay.” It is after all MY vote and in a democracy I have the right to vote for the candidate of MY choice. (Apparently only in a Democratic caucus is that right revoked.) It’s not a protest vote, it’s a “I’m not a lemming” vote. It’s a vote for the candidate I can feel good about supporting. And, honestly, if I were forced to pick between McCain or Obama, I’d go with McCain. Thankfully I don’t have to make that choice.

  588. William, Kid, Steve, Bill, Tom, Brian, D, etc……,

    To all you Blah, Blah’s we must of hit a nerve. You came to this website. If it was to harass, well it’s not working. I, any many others will not be voting for Obama. Many people see he doesn’t talk from the heart. He tries to say what he believes the audience wants to hear. It’s fake. I will not be voting for second best, and again vote for the candidate that BEST embodies my beliefs. Both the Democrats and Republicans don’t have it right, and they’ve had plenty of chances to do so. It’s time for a breath of fresh air. Third parties would have a chance if people would get off the two party ban wagon.

    Still my wish is that more people vote. And, that all the Hillary supporters look at ALL the candidates, and exercise their right to vote, even you blah-blaher’s.

  589. So where do we go from here? Third parties have been tried before but never seem to field a serious contender with broad appeal. Pubically funded campaigns were supposed to level the playing field . . . until Obama found that he has so many rich friends. Once again it looks like we are stuck with voting for the candidate we dislike the least.

  590. Ok, PUMA, get your act together FAST! Make our 18 million votes be heard!!!. I voted for Hillary in the Primary in Michigan…. THEN they took my vote away and GAVE it to O’BAMA….. Who I WILL NOT VOTE FOR IN THE GE. I will vote for McCain in the Primary since he is more to the moderate side then OBAMA…..

    Sorry they stole the election from you Hillary!!!!

  591. Hi Bruce,

    If each person, making the comment of voting for whom we “dislike the least”, would truly vote their conscience, change will come. Continuing down this path will do nothing. The ordinary American citizen is NOT ordinary when it come to their vote. Money, power, and our government must go back to it’s people. Vote, everyone vote!

  592. Let me post one question: to those of you who feel Obama won the primary fair and square, do you also think Bush won the presidency fair and square in 2000? Just let me hear you say it. Go on, I dare you!

  593. To Mike and all the Blah Blahs–

    Vote for Obama. No one is telling you not to. I am not voting for him, It really irks the Obama supporters that we Hillary folk do not fall over and say SCREW ME harder, doesn’t it? You are the true Nazis in this election. You are a disgrace to the party.,..but then, you are the party now. So glad I left. It makes me weep. But like dust, we PUMAS will RISE!!

    I personally don’t give a damn if abortion and BC is bombed back to the stone ages, boys and girls. I am old enough to remember Griswold Vs the state of Connecticut, coat hanger abortions, and trips to Mexico. I guess y’all will have to be more careful, hmmmmmmmm?

    You did this to yourselves. ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY. You DID NOT stand by your fellow voters when they were being castrated by “The Power” (Remember the song “Fight the Power”?–Did you? Did you stand by our side and help get our voices heard? NO!) Now you need us, and we do not owe you anything. There may be rapees who fall in line and vote for your candidates, but PUMAs will not. Why play on this playground?

    I have carried this party on my back for over 30 years to keep BC and abortion safe and legal and the Dems had to have a PENIS as their candidate. You got what you wanted. No go scratch.

    It’s very hard to live with the guilt isn’t it,Blah-blahs? I feel sorry for you. But pity will not get my vote.

    Have a nice day.

  594. Maybe there IS a third party in the US. They’re called, “Independents.” Believe me, after this primary, I have been tempted to just ditch the party. Still, I feel it’s the best thing to stay a Democrat, voice my opinion within the party, exercise my own rights as a voter, and vote for McCain this time. I really don’t think he’s a war monger, and I really think he’s OK. Not as good as Hillary, but OK. He’s the most anti-Bush Republican there is. Most hard right wingers can’t stand him.

    I feel if I stay a Democrat, but vote against Obama, there’s hope that the DNC will come to it’s senses and reform their primary election process. Really, all this non-sense about Super delegates and disenfranchising the important swing states and changing the number of delegates needed, lowering the bar for the guy who got fewer popular votes. If I let that go un-notices, the next thing you’ll see is the DNC putting up Mickey Mouse because George Cluny and Oprah Winfrey told them to.

  595. Caroline, you are a joy! Thank you for your intelligent, thoughtful responses.

    I respect your choice to stay in the party. You have a lot more hope than I do, lol. But I do “hope” that you can reform it from the inside. My husband and I feel that by leaving the party after so many years, we are sending a message to the DNC as well–that they can’t f*ck with us. The WILL of the people was not done–again! And we was done–screwed– by our own. These Dems are out there protesting everything and anything EXCEPT the travesty that has occured in their own party. How can they feel upset at 2000, and then do it to their own? Enough is enough. But again, I “hope” you can do something as a REAL DEM. Thank you for your faith.

    As for Jonny Mac, I was very interested in his 2000 primary as he got totally screwed by the Bushies, which was filthy. He did what he had to do as a pol, but never lost his true voice. He is true to himself, and while I may not agree with him, I TRUST him. Character counts, and he’s got tons to spare. But he is not my first choice.

  596. I have never hated Bush more than when he ran that filthy campaign against McCain. Absolutely shameful.

    Still, if McCain can survive that and come out with his head high, there’s hope for Hillary yet. She has character by the boat load, too, and I think she’ll eventually come out ahead.

    I’m tellin’ ya, baby, 2012!!

  597. Amen, sister, and AMEN! We will RISE! And so will HILL! Rise, HILLARY, RISE! 2012, here we come.

    After McCain wins, I plan to rejoin the party and campaign exclusively for Hillary.

    Which is why I am sooooooooooooooooo relieved she is NOT the VP on Obama’s ticket. Dodged a MAJOR bullet, thank God.

  598. I am REALLY glad that Hillary isn’t VP also. She never said she wanted it. If I were her, I wouldn’t want it either, because if Obama won, she’d never have a chance for 2012.

    McCain actively said NO to a VP spot, too. He thought he could serve his constituants better by staying in the senate, keeping with his reform policies, and bucking Bush every chance he got. He has been a thorn in the Right Wing’s side all along. That’s why I think it would be really refreshing, and almost FUNNY if he won the presidency. Nothing would CHAP BUSH’s ASS more!

    Hillary can stay really active in the Senate, keep pushing her message, keep her voice strong and consistent, and gain even MORE experience to give it another go. She isn’t going ANYWHERE! And in 2012, she can CHAP OBAMA’s ASS TOO.

  599. (from Johnj)

    Dear Clinton PUMA supporters,

    Let me share some thoughts with you concerning your reluctance to support Obama. As an African American I’ve voted for Bill twice and would’ve voted for Hillary if she had won the nomination. I truly believe another Rethuglican administration would be catastrophic for this country. If it is seen by the Black community that Obama lost because of your lack of support, then when Hillary runs in 2012 she will fail. The term White working class voter seems like coded speak to me.I’m black and a working class voter. Is my vote not important to you? I’ve already given it to you twice, and was willing to do it a third. Hillary or no democrat will win without the support of the majority of African Americans. So if you want to withhold you vote for Obama because of your selfishness, then you have already lost 2012 for Hillary. And before you come back with “What about all the things the Clinton’s have done for Blacks” Remember that works both ways. During Bill’s Monica problem, it was African American support that was the majority of his support during impeachment. If you really want to take your frustrations out, I suggest you look no further than her campaign manager. Why in the world would you not campaign in the states where he reeled off 12 in a row is beyond me. If she had won just half of those caucus states, the she would be the nominee.
    johnj | Homepage | 08.25.08 – 10:42 am

  600. you people in PUMA are the people who are being childish and irresponsible, not Obama supporters. You’re saying, “Well, if you don’t play the game the way I want it, I’ll take my ball and go home!” If you support John McCain you will be responsible for the destruction of the lower and middle classes. You need to grow up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  601. Phyllis, let’s talk about “Playing the game the way I want it.”

    I want the candidate who got the majority of the votes to be the nominee.

    I want Florida and Michigan, 2 HUGE IMPORTANT SWING STATES, to have all their votes counted.

    I want the number of delegates needed to win the nomination to not get adjusted in the middle of the game to make the guy with the fewer popular votes win.

    Yes. If those are the rules to push Obama through, then I will take my ball and go home. Maybe the DNC will learn and play fair next time.

    BTW, no one has answered my question: Those of you who think Obama won fair and square, do you also think Bush won fair and square in 2000? We are talking about the erosion of Democracy, people! You’re starting to spook me!

  602. First – I proudly contributed what little money I could to PUMA PAC today. Why? Because this is an important movement and deserves great respect!

    Second – There are many of us who fought for civil rights and are not black. Here in Virginia, we elected the FIRST black governor since reconstruction (L. Douglas Wilder). So to say that blacks won’t support Hillary if Obama doesn’t win is to insult many who have given a great deal to the cause of equality.

    The fact remains that Obama is not and was not the most qualified candidate. To say that you have to vote a particular way because of race (irrespective of qualifications) is as wrong and racist as voting for someone just because they are white.

    It seems to me that PUMA is about choices. I own my vote and will only give it to the person who has EARNED IT (no matter what their race or gender).

  603. Voting for Hillary means Bill gets back into the White House. Just more “Monica Lewinsky-type” trash we have to put up with for 4 more years. No Hillary, then no Bill. Sorry Hillary – should have dumped him and rallied for his impeachment. Inside you hung on because of the Power. That’s enough for me. I still vote Dem.

  604. A note to the Hillary supporters who are saying they will vote for McCain:

    First let me say that I love the Clintons. It was a great moment for me when I shook Bill’s hand in Raleigh, NC in 1992. I think he was a great president. I also admire and respect Hillary. I’m a fan of both her and Bill. Now…here we are in 2008. We are engaged in a reckless war in Iraq which is resulting in unnacceptable loss of life and a huge amount of horrible injuries to American soldiers. And in the deaths of innocent Iraqis – the very people people we were supposedly there to liberate. And we are now in the midst of an American presidential election. I usually vote mostly on environmental issues. I have kids and I want them to have a cleaner world. But the human environment is now at risk, too because of war. Yes we need to fight those that seek to do us harm, but I cannot in good conscience, support the continuation of what we all now know was an “elective” war. John McCain wants to continue this madness. If he wins the presidency, in all likelihood, my two sons will be fighting this war. That’s not the future I was hoping for for them. For the sake of my kids and all the innocent people who will be trapped in the middle I am praying for an Obama victory. Do I agree with him on everything? No. But I do agree with him on at least one big thing: End this war before it takes too many more lives and destroys to many futures. This is what Hillary wants, too. She said it many times during her campaign. If you are a Hillary supporter, I understand your disappointment and maybe even your anger a bit. But Hillary is not bigger than all of us, and I’m willing to bet she would be the first to say that. So if the pain and disappointment you feel has not gone away by November and, when you’re in that voting booth you feel your hand inching toward the McCain lever, please pause and give it another thought. My kids would appreciate it.

  605. Dec, if every American, Christian man was fired from his job for adultery, America would shut down. Immediately.

    Adultery is a hobby here in this country, as is divorce.

    I admire the Clintons ability to put that behind them and stay together, in this nation of divorce and “baby daddy-ism”

    However, it’s your voice and your choice, however stupid it may be.

  606. Caroline –

    Florida and Michigan broke the rules by having early primaries., They knew their votes could and would be disqualified but they did it anyhow. They “disenfranchised” themselves. No one did it to them.
    Hillary wasn’t my first choice – too cozy with big money, too much a supporter of the status quo – but if Obama had lost, I would have supported her. I would have worked on her campaign. I would have done anything in my power to get her in office.
    You can’t POSSIBLY think four years of John McCain would be better.

  607. Ash, please!

    Enough already with the breeder guilt trip! They’re your kids, you take care of them.

    My vote is my voice and it was silenced on January 29, 2008 by the Dem party. What did you do–or those kids of yours do–to get 3 million voters voices heard? O, I know, protest against the war. War, War War! Honey, there was a war going in our party, and what did you do? You let it happen! YOU DID NOTHING! Your reap what you sow.

    What you could have done is say: “PLease, for the sake of my holy children’s future, count all the votes and show my holy kids ALL AMERICANS COUNT”

    What did YOU do? What?

  608. Caroline, you know I agree with you! Keep the faith.

    Bruce, nice email. You guys rock and rock. Blessings to you both.


  609. AMEN, Robert and Ash! Especially the bit about how if black people had decided not to vote for Hillary!

    The truth hurts, doesn’t it??!??

  610. Ash and Phyllis–I am not 1/3 of a person. And you didn’t answer my question, Ash–What did you do?

    I supported Hillary Clinton, after choosing not to support John Edwards when I saw he could not win. My husband has been a Hillary supporter since 2007 and we both supported Bill and Hill since 1992. I

    I fought very hard to get the Florida vote counted. I also personally know many Florida Dems who viciously fought AGAINST getting the votes counted.

    It’s real. You can’t say it didn’t happen. You got what you wanted and now you’re upset that we are not opening our legs like good little victims and saying, “Please, sir, can I have some more of your erasure?”

    Unlike you, dear, I have the moral decency to believe that all Americans count. You OTOH, have your one- note issues and that’s all. I also have answered your question, and I will once again pose mine to you:

    WHAT DID YOU DO TO ENSURE THAT ALL THE PRIMARY VOTES IN FLORIDA AND MICHIGAN WERE COUNTED? Because if they had been counted, this might have been a very different convention.

    No one is stopping you from voting for Obama. Why do you come and try to impose your little will on us?


  611. When Democracy returns to the Democratic Party, so will we.

    Until then – PUMA.

    BTW: I am a dark-skinned Latina – so my ovaries & brown skin have done just fine under 12 years of Reagan/Bush and 8 years of Bush 2.0. Same threatr over and over again – count the votes instead!

    I’m voting either Green Party McKinney/Sanchez or Nader. Or not at all.

  612. Also, I live in Florida and my vote’s been toilet paper for the past 8 years. Never thought my own party would do this to me and to 3 million people who voted in MI & FL.

  613. Robert, I won’t be voting for BO because I think he is a horrible candidate, not because Hillary lost. The DNC stripping Florida and Michigan voters of their votes is appalling especially coming from the party that claims to support voter rights. What sort of “rules” committee robs their own voter base of a voice at the polls? I’m done with the Dems and will be an independent voter from here on out. And, from where I’m standing the sour grapes are coming from Obama supporters who are miffed that not everyone is buying the BS that BO is selling.

  614. Robert—Somebody had to play the race card. Congrats.

    No one is telling you not to vote for Obama. Rather, on this site, we are telling you why we aren’t voting for him.

    What a bunch of control freaks you Obama folks are! Especially when it’s your fault that the party is fractured to begin with. If you had chosen to fight for the Florida and Michigan votes to be counted, your candidate wouldn’t be in the fix he is in. But of course, it is much easier to blame somebody else for what you did–that is, not speak up for the disenfranchised voters of two states IN YOUR PARTY.

    It’s your voice and choice to vote for Obama. It’s still a free country. I will support John McCain. Not out of spite, as the Obama supporters did to us Hillary supporters, but simply because he is the better candidate. Period. John McCain is the better candidate. Period. It really gets you Obama folk, doesn’t it, that you have the weaker candidate, and the Dem party screwed over so many of its supporters and you have NOBODY but yourselves to blame.


  615. Amen, gxm, and sm77. Blessings and welcome! PUMA!

  616. Ash – LOL! Hillary’s dear Senate colleagues have already declared UHC dead in the water.

    Now, little trollies, run along and go where people are stupid enough to fall for your bullsh*t.

  617. Hillbilly –

    talk about being one issue – that describes you perfectly.

    Hillary knew the rules for Michigan and Florida. She said we shouldn’t count the votes and then when it went against her she went back on her word.

    Incidentally, she also voted to get us into the illegal, immoral war in Iraq.

  618. Dear Hillbilly;
    Thank you for being so condescending. Whatever makes you feel better, though. I’m not asking you to open your legs and be victims. You seem to have the “victim” part down pat. I’m not trying to impose my “little will” on anyone. All I did was write a respectful article asking this very specific group of people to rethink voting for McCain. That’s it. What I got back was this anger. What i would say is this: IF all the candidates knew that the two states in question were going to count, they would have campaigned there and the results would have been different. Hillary may have won, maybe not. Remember, MANY people (I know – I’m from Florida) stayed home thinking their votes weren’t going to count. That’s why the party committee came up with the compromise they did. I’m all for having every vote count the same, but where we are now, I’m not content to have McWarmonger elected president. If he is, then the blood spilled in Iraq over the next, what, 20, 30, 100 years, is on PUMA’s hands. But I guess you’re OK with that.

  619. And to quote Hillary:

    Now I understand that the McCain campaign is running ads trying to divide us and let me state what I think about their tactics and these ads: I am Hillary Clinton and I do not approve that message.

    So, you can be upset and hurt, and that is certainly understandable. You can listen to the intelligent woman you worked so very hard elect. or you can listen the the Mccain camp, and do exactly as they wish…and get 4 more years of the SOS.

    As a Nader supporter, I have regretted my decision so very much these past few years. Sometimes you have to bury your pride, your hurt, and your anger for the good of the country. Please, consider your actions, and work for progress.


  620. By the way – what is OTOH?

  621. Phyllis, Joe Biden voted for the war, so did Edwards & Kerry.

    Obama voted to fund it.

    Hillary did not campaign here in FL. Obama ran national ads on CNN, we saw them here. He also did a campaign stop in the Cuban Civic Center in Ybor City here in Tampa.


    Democrats in 2 states were silenced. Where are the 4 delegates & 600,000 votes the DNC/Obama took?

    Go away – you are not welcome here.

    I’d rather live knowing I fought for my right to cast my vote and it be counted than to follow an illegitimate candidate who won by vote fraud.

  622. You people have lost your minds. More than any other time in the last eight years Democrats have a chance to win. Are you crazy? My 1st choice candidate didn’t win the nomination last time and I still voted for Kerry; that’s how it works. Vote for the person closest to your values who can win. You’re being petulant, petty, cry baby, sore losers. If you’re true progressives you should’ve worked for Dennis K. The disdain you have for Obama, the name calling, is immature and down right stupid. If PUMA succeeds you’ll be the ones to blame when: a women looses her right to choose what to do with her body, the international image of the US plummets to an all-time low, a constitutional amendment defining marriage to be only between a man and a women is passed, and the American economy tanks. Yeah, go PUMA.

  623. Hmmm, it’s very interesting that Obama supporters conveniently forget that he ran ads in Florida. Just sayin’.

    As for blood on anyone’s hands. The Iraq war is Bush’s terrible folly. The blood is on his hands. Putting it on McCain (or Hillary) is absurd. Keep the blame where it belongs. Don’t let GW off so easy with your attempt to badmouth McCain.

  624. OTOH = on the other hand

  625. BTW: PUMA is about bringing Democracy back to the Democratic Party, when Democracy returns so will we.

    Until then – PUMA.

    Axelrod called, he said it’s ok for you guys to go on your lunch break.

  626. AG: Democracy is “petulant”?

    Having my own party discount my FL vote is “petulant?”


  627. AG, I also voted for Kerry even though I he wasn’t my first pick. And the truth is that I didn’t feel good about my vote. No more. I’m going to vote for candidates I feel good about. I’m very progressive so the Dems really aren’t all that close to my values. That’s why I’m supporting McKinney, the Green Party candidate. I would have voted for Hillary because I think she would have made a damn good President. Obama, no way, he reminds me of the politicians I’ve disliked the most: Nixon and Bush 2.

  628. Hi Ash–OTOH is “on the other hand”


    This isn’t about Hillary anymore. I love Hillary but she can’t tell me what to do.

    I will not be loyal to a party who partook in voter fraud to boost a candidate over another.


  630. sm77 –

    why should i go away? Is it only YOUR opinion that counts? I thought you wanted EVERYONE to have a say! You just showed your true colors – you think that your opinion and the opinions of all that agree with you are the only opinions that count.

  631. Phyllis – this site is dedicated to Democrats in Exile, for PUMAs to have a resting stop.

    This is not a spot for you to barrage us with the same O-borg talking points we hear OVER and OVER and OVer again. Did the O-borg assign you to this blog? Hmm. I know the site monitors keep a log of trolls and harrassers.

    If you want to spout how great Obama is, go somewhere else. We ain’t voting for him because he and the DNC committed voter fraud. We want Democracy back in the Democratic Party. Had Obama won fair & square, I’d be voting & supporting him 1000%.

    But voters were silenced and harrassed, ridiculed and threatened, some even with their very lives at hte caucus. Votes were “disappeared”, halved and misapportioned. The only way you’ll get me to vote for Obama is if you cut my finger off, pick it up from the floor and push the button for me.

    Green Party, Nader or NONE OF THE ABOVE this November.

  632. Hi Bruce, I’m from Virginia too and voted for Wilder. The only Dem I plan on voting for this fall is Mark Warner. (I’m assuming that he won’t say something stupid during his keynote address.) The Obama supporters’ Chicken Little routine is getting on my last nerve too. Obama is more like Bush than McCain. At least McCain has the experience to take on the job he’s running for.

  633. sm77, Bruce, gxm, it is so refreshing to meet you all on this site. One has to wonder why all the Obama supporters are here…shouldn’t they be out rallying their base (of which we are not part of)?

    BTW, sm77, LOVE your Axelrod comment. And I completely agree with you about Florida. Raped not once, but twice, and by our own people yet. Talk about incest!

    Phyllis, if you’ll notice, none of the PUMAs are telling sm77 she had to vote for McCain, and she is not telling the McCain supporters to vote for the Green Party or Nadar. We respect each other’s choices here.

    Ash, if people stayed home because they were “told” (by who? the voting God?) their votes weren’t going to count, they are the fools and idiots the Repubs have claimed them to be all these years. I know many people who were/are Obama supporters with whom I spoke the day before the primary who uttered that exact line to me in a whiny voice “Whhyyyy should I vote…my vote won’t count” When I attempted to suggest that it was still their right to vote, they whined some more. It does come back to choice and responsibility. Period. We had a record turnout in Florida, BTW–the HIGHEST number of voters in any primary in history. So your argument doesn’t wash. But nice try.

  634. Has anyone thought through what a McKain victory would mean for women — their rights, their influence, their participation? If you feel so strongly that you can’t vote Democratic this year, please vote for a minor party candidate or leave the space empty or even (hopefully not) stay home. There are so many who have spent years working to overcome sexual prejudice — please don’t forfeit the positive results of our efforts.

  635. Tim, John McCain is not a demon.

    He is a compassionate, articulate man who is anti-choice. He has many years’ experience in politics and foreign policy. I may not agree with him, as I have said many times before, but I trust him and respect him and his service to our country. This is merely my reading of the candidates and my choice. I am not here to change anyone’s mind to vote for him. I am here because the Dems did not want me during my state’s primary (Florida) and they want me now only because they know they can’t win without me and all the PUMAs.

    Many of the Democratic voters who put Reagan into office (twice) like John McCain. Surely you’ve heard the term “Reagan Democrat” before. BTW, I voted for Carter,Carter, Mondale, and Dukakis, Clinton, Clinton, Gore, and Kerry.

    Supporters of the other candidates, Cynthia McKinney and Ralph Nadar would be happy, I am sure, to tell you why they are voting for the candidate of their choice.

  636. Tim and company, do you not realize that Republicans have been in the White House for 20 of the last 28 years? A McCain presidency will not cause women’s rights to disappear. This is such an absurd bully tactic. It’s the same fear mongering that the Bush administration used in 2004. Code RED! The sky is falling! Hide under the tables everyone!

    BTW, I’m a McKinney supporter. I like her because she’s willing to lay it on the line and fight for her convictions. I love the video that shows her grilling Rumsfeld.

    (I haven’t posted a link here yet, so I hope this works.)


  637. Hi HFH, I happy to have found this site. I’ve been laying off the message boards for a while. Most of my old stomping grounds are populated with Obama supporters and their endless fawning posts. It’s refreshing to find a place with like minded folks. I relate to so many of the sentiments on this board. It’s good to know I’m not alone. 🙂

  638. Hillbilly;

    Oh, Hillbilly. You’re making this too easy for me. You can do better than that, can’t you?

  639. gxm, I was a blogger for Hillary for months and months, lol. I had to swear off in June and have a life.

    I call myself Hillbilly for Hillary because one of the Obama supporters here wrote, “all the Pumas are the new Hillbillies”, meaning, of course, bitter old white people who cling to their guns..and God, lol. I couldn’t resist. I am most definitely prochoice and I am also progun…former NRA member here. If the shoe fits…

    But this week was just too good to pass up. I am happy to see you have a place to hang.

    Ash, it’s the same old argument re: abortion.

    It’s the one I used on all the Reagan dems back in the 80s (they obviously didn’t listen) As I have mentioned before, it’s not my problem. It’s yours.

    You’d think that Emily’s List might have considered how not supporting Hillary would affect the women who have been supporting them for the past 20 years,by supporting Hillary. And NARAL. Nope. They wanted Obama. So now, it’s up to them. Not me. Remember, my primary vote doesn’t count. O, that’s right, it’s counts 1/3. Well, I grant you permission to have 1/3 of an abortion. Fair?

  640. Ash–Roe v. Wade–your post of 5:50.

  641. ALL ABOARD! The Stop Obama Express. A great site for Anti-Obama Fun, videos, pictures, quotes and more. Check it out at http://www.StopObamaExpress.com

  642. People act like abortion is the “litmus test,” decision that makes or breaks a candidate. People, IT’sJUST NOT THAT SIMPLE. Since when has McCain been against women’s rights? As a matter of fact, I strongly suspect he could be considering a female as a running mate. He adopted a daughter from Mother Theresa’s orphanage, for Pete’s sake!

    As for Roe V Wade, IF he appointed a judge who MIGHT consider overturning Roe V Wade, it’s so far from a done deal. The Republicans have been using this CAMPAIGN PROMISE for years, and they have NEVER delivered. I have news for you. ALL POLITICIANS MAKE CAMPAIGN PROMISES TO WIN VOTES. You have to read between the lines to judge what they would really do. McCain is a politician saying certain things to get votes. Pure and simple.

    EVEN IF McCain were to appoint a pro life judge on the supreme court, and even if that judge were to somehow play a part in overturning Roe, Abortion would still probably be safe. Most people want it safe and legal. Each state, one by one, would keep it legal.

    Besides: 90% of the time the time to exercize CHOICE is by keeping your pants zipped!

  643. cindy mccain adopted that kid without telling john mccain about it so that has nothing to do with him or his feminist credentials. also, using an adopted kid to show that he’s a feminist?? WHAT? are you serious?? that makes no sense.

    puma, i understand your anger. but i urge you to vote with your heads and not out of spite. people always gripe that voting for the lesser of two evils is not logically sound, but those people are missing the point. give the better man the job.

  644. As a long time Hillary Clinton Supporter, BO is not my first choice! What I don’t understand is those here who use what happened in Florida and Michigan as an excuse to support John McCain. It is not just the democratic party which punished FL and MI for the early primaries. If you had voted Republican in either primary your vote would have only counted 50%!! Also now FL and MI have had FULL voting rights restored at the DNC.

    BO might not be the candidate that Hillary would have been, but John McSame represents everything that Hillary has fought against. He might have been a ‘maverick’ once, but his voting record is almost identical to Bush. The one time I’ll agree with Howard Dean is that the McCain of 2004 would not vote for the McCain we have now. BO at least supports the policies that are the reason I supported Hillary in the first place. He can’t be held responsible for her unfair treatment by the MSN. I might not be voting Democratic to support BO, but I will definitely be voting democratic to support Hillary Clinton’s policies!

  645. PUMA – Truly a sad, pathetic little organization for even sadder and more pathetic people. Get over it, she lost…the Clinton Legacy is over. Democrats chose Obama because they wanted real change…not a return to the policies of the 1990s. It’s called PROGRESS. Now some, bitter old heifers now have to try to stand in the way of it…well you can’t. Like all obstacles to progress you will be overcome.

  646. Here is my two cents worth. I am someone who originally supported Hillary and now will vote for Obama. I have contributed to lowering Hillary’s debt and to the Obama campaign. I’ve worked at letting go of personal disappointment and frustration to focus on the bigger picture of the continued impact of Republican rule on our lives. Al you have to do is look at the differences in the proposed policies of the two parties (McCain’s and Obama’s/Clinton’s) to get a sense of the large differences and the stakes involves. There are major fact-based differences that will make a difference in many many peoples’ lives-it isn’t simply a personality contest. For those of you who poo-poo McCain’s right wing positions, please read the policy statements on both candidates web sites.

    The vote I regret most in my life was in 1980 when I voted for Barry Commoner because I was disgusted with the Democratic party and was tired of “voting for the lesser of two evils”. My mother, who was very politically informed and involved, said she thought I was “cutting off my nose to spite my face”.

    Years later, after having lived through Reaganomics and the Bushes, I realized my mother, who passed away last year, was right. To really change an entrenched political parties is a long arduous process that involves beginning to work on the local level (as the Christian Coalition did-they focused on school boards) and to work within the Democratic Party on the ground floor to chip away at changing the party structure (caucuses, etc.).

    I felt self-righteous in that voting booth in 1980, but I lived to regret it.

  647. Obama -change whether you like it or not! –
    No wonder with this kind of attitude people are choosing not to support BO. Why would you insult someone’s personal decision about who to support? You’re insulting post is such a backwards way to show your support for BO if that is really what you intend. I almost think you are some kind of Republican troll trying to create even more anger against BO than there already is here.

  648. I honestly believe that at least half of the so called pumas here are Rush Limbaugh sent troublemakers. I laughed my butt off when a puma was made to look absolutely insane this afternoon by Chris Matthews. “I have a report….” but I won’t tell you who wrote it blah blah blah. REAL Democrats are going to unite for this Obama-Biden ticket & the country will be placed back in the hands of competent leadership. No more half trillion dollar deficits & illegal wars. I just made my 6th small donation to the Obama campaign & will continue to even though the Bush depression has eaten away almost all of my disposable income. Can’t wait for November.

  649. Daine God bless you for such thoughtful words. You are obviously holder than i am, but why would anyone want to vote for Mccain who voted with Bush 95% of the time. Hillary’s carreer has been to look out for the ordianry person but the same cant be said about Mccain. I am dissappointed but i am sure not throwing my vote away.

    I dont know what my kids future holds just imagining what another 4 to 8 years of Bush/Mccain economic policies might bring.

    India and China are innovating and competing with us, john mccain has never mentioned what he wants to do for education. I am more scared than ever before.

    Please do this for your family if not for yourself!

  650. Shame on you! You want 4 more years of Bushite politics, I hope you get what you want. This has nothing to do with Hillary Clinton.


  651. Guess what BILL THOMAS? Mccain and the republicans are paying these women to launch websites and paying for their trips to Denver. This is beyond me. Just check out this videa..

    if you donated to Mccains campaign in 2000, dont that make you a republican?

  652. Caroline, another brilliant post by a true Democrat. I applaud you.

    Obama-change, etc. etc.: What did you do to help the disenfranchised voters of Florida and Michigan get their votes to count? Why are you here? Why waste your time with such a “sad and pathetic” organization? Why aren’t you out with all those perky perfect Obama supporters? What are you doing wasting your time with all–how did you say it: “bitter old heifers”? Wow. That will really get undecided Hillary supporters to vote for Obama. Such class, such grace in presentation!

    Diane, I appreciate your sentiments. But we are all not you and we all come to our own decisions. At least the PUMAs understand that, lol. All the Obama supporters here have problems with anyone who disagrees with them. My elderly mother, a Roosevelt Dem, can’t stand Obama and is a passionate Hillary supporter. And no, I didn’t have to prompt her. .

    Eva, you are so on the money. I hope that the troll is not a Repub. He would be doing a disservice to his party, much like the Obama-ettes are doing to theirs.

  653. Nancy, it seems that you have been lapping up the political ads instead of thinking for yourself. I am a loyal Democrat, but an independent minded one. As for the lesser of 2 evils, McCain is the lesser of 2 evils, and twice the experienced patriot Obama could hope to be. AND HE’s VERY UNLIKE BUSH. This whole “McSame” concept is an inaccurate smear and a deception fabricated by the machine that pushed the illegitimate nomination of Obama.

    Go ahead. Keep scrambling.

  654. Has your staff told you how many homes you own yet McSenile?

  655. So you are not going to go quietly into that good night, in a political sense that is. Or you have no intention to blindly support Obama. Maybe you would prefer someone more to your own liking; say 4 more years of Bush disguised as McCain. Nothing like standing on principle. To hell with the rest of the people in the party who don’t want more Republican rule. Nothing like cutting off your noses to spite the rest of the voters in your party. I have always voted for a Democratic candidate for Pres. But if you 2 years olds torpedo Obama/Biden and give us 4 more Republican years then as God is my witness I will likely never vote for another Dem.–ever. In discussing this situation w. other concerned democrats I have learned are equally as disturbed by your antics.

  656. Chris Matthews is sooooooooooooo in the tank for Obama, as was the late Tim Russert (may he rest in peace), and Keith Olbermann, and CNN. I’m not impressed. If you want real political assessment, listen to Juan Williams, Pat Buchanan, Lou Dobbs. Read Ellen Goodman’s columns; though not a political journalist, she has excellent insight into the lay of the land.

  657. HillBilly, I meant to say, I love your posts, too. Well put and well thought out. Rock on.

  658. Bill, since when is marrying well into a family that sells good beer a crime?? The fact that he doesn’t know how many houses he has means HE DOESN”T CARE. He’s not materialistic. For God’s sake, 7 years in the Hanoi Hilton with every bone in his body broken so YOU CAN HAVE A FREE COUNTRY, cut the guy some slack! He was personally waterboarded, starved, and almost drowned in a latrine because he believed in YOUR FREEDOMS.

  659. Caroline, the kids must be getting frightend, lol! Maybe high school has let out on the Left Coast? Look at the Obama traffic on this blog! Amazing for a site of “bitter old heifers”

    mountaingirl 08, how are we “cutting off our noses to spite ourselves”? We are voting our conscience. I believe that has not yet been taken away by the DNC in order to reap votes for their candidates. Or has it? Please let me know, and I’ll have that lobotomy immediately and join your “team”

  660. I wonder if (God forbid) McSenile were to win if he would have Joe (Benedict Arnold) Lieberman to whisper in his ear every time he commits a gaff. Poor McSenile doesn’t know what countries border each other in the middle east, what the difference is between the different sects so it’s not surprising that he (admittedly) doesn’t know anything about the economy (& thinks it is fundamentally sound). What did the stock market do today with that great economy McSenile? Oh yeah the Dow dropped 250 points. Hey PUMAs are you better off today then you were 4 or 8 years ago. Vote McCain & deepen the recession/depression.

  661. John McCain is an American hero. You may not agree with his policies but NO ONE, not even Barack Obama, can take that away from him. You do your candidate a great disservice by insulting McCain.

    But then you sound like the rest of the Obama-ettes: boo-hoo, sob-sob over the war in Iraq, but no respect for Vietnam war vets. You’re too young to remember or too ignorant to care.

  662. Pull that pow card out Caroline. That;s the answer to everything. Like with Rudy the answer to every question is a noun a verb & 9-11, with McCain the answer to every question is a noun, a verb and “cut him some slack he was a pow”. Okay, he’s a patriot. I’ll grant him that. But he isn’t the best suited man to lead this country. Yes he was tortured & he was agains us waterboarding until he flipflopped on that issue like he has on so many issues. In Florida we know flip flops & McCain could be their spokesman. And I like how you’ve now added a year and a half to his time as a pow. It’s 5 1/2 years not 7. Obama-Biden will turn this country around from the wreck Bush has left just like Bill Clinton cleaned up the Reagan and old man Bush’s mess.

  663. What I don’t understand about Chris Matthews is that he was SO in the tank for McCain in 2000.

    And he was SO critical of Bill Clinton, running that “WHitehouse in Crisis” thing during the Monica story.

    I still can’t figure out what makes that guy tick.

  664. Bill, all I’m saying is, the POW experience speaks to his sincerity and his honor and his patriotism. It says nothing about his policies, nothing about his platform, but it speaks volumes of him as a man and as a leader. OK so it was only 5 1/2 years. My bad.

    The bottom line is, Obama just doesn’t have what it takes. He couldn’t CHANGE his underwear without adult supervision. And the fact that the DNC pushed this hambone through, knowing full well Hillary was the better choice, is dumbfounding.

  665. Bill, you mean like “McCain is going to kill all the women and outlaw abortion and make us wear head scarves and walk five feet behind our men” card that the Obama-ettes keep playing?

    Caroline, Chris Matthews in an obamanation as a journalist. He is an incredibly and obviously biased person. Not worth watching. Don’t waist your time.

  666. Jacquie, you are sadly mistaken if you believe that this is what the PUMAs are all about. But it is your right to be young and stupid. John McCain is a good American. I do not agree with all his policies, but I trust him and respect him and his service to our country.

    Barack Obama will never be John McCain, and you do a disservice to Obama by coming on here and ranting. It shows your ignorance.

  667. My last post. The people who insist on voting for McCain may get the government they deserve. Unfortunately I’ll get that same government. Where does McCain stand on torture today? He was against before he was for it (now). Where does he stand on offshore oil drilling? He was against it before he was for it (now). Where is he on immigration? He was for his own bill before he was against it (now). Where is he on the Bush tax cuts? He was against them because they are weighted heavily to the rich & then he wanted to make the same tax cuts permanent (now). He called Falwell & Pat Robertson agents of intolerance 8 years ago & kissed their asses to get this nomination. THIS is a man of integrity???????? This is the man you want to lead this country. He’s admitted he doesn’t know anything about economics. You want HIM to straighten out this economy? God forgive you for you know not what you do. Go ahead and vote McCain. You’ll be in a bread line on food stamps (if he hasn’t eradicated those problems while he’s privatizing Social Security).

  668. Now who’s being paranoid?? Former Hillary supporters who will vote for McCain are being PAID to do these emails? Hey, if I only knew that were going on I could be making a buck! Too bad I have to work for a living.

    Hillbilly, it’s refreshing to read you emails. Sanity. Reason and sanity.

    I challenge those who call him, McSenile to name one instance of senility in McCain’s candidacy.

    Still, this isn’t about McCain, it’s about what we Hillary supporters view as our best course of action, for Hillary, and for the country.

  669. My entirely DEMOCRAT family would get a big kick out of “slo…’s” assertion that I am a Repub troll. I am non-party affiliated and would stil be a dem (or should I say, “DUM”) had the DNC not insisted that Obama be the candidate for the party this year and disenfranchised both Michigan and Florida to do so.

    Wow, you kids must really be scared. I’m flattered by all this attention. For a “bitter old heifer” such as myself, it is quite a feat.

    Pat Buchanan may or may not like John McCain, but geez whiz, golly shucks, boys and girls, this isn’t a popularity contest. Pat is an astute political analyst with whom I may not always agree, but can really look at a situation clearly with no bias. Which, I might say, is not your strong suit.

    BTW, my husband got a big hoot out of you calling me a troll. He wants me to tell you that you are not a very politically correct Dem, lol. Devisive name-calling and insulting of the differentially-abled (trolls) is supposedly a Repub characteristic. You know, the Obama thought police read thib blog–watch out! They are taking names and will report you to the party–and then you’ll be sorry!

  670. Caroline, same here to you, girlfriend. Thanks for getting my back. You really are a true Democrat. It’s an honor to still know one.

  671. HillBilly, you are in good company. Hillary supporters are the majority of the party. Pure and simple. We may not agree where to go from here, but I would hope whatever decision each of us makes, it’s based on facts and philosophy, not fear and spin.

  672. I hate watching this convention. I feel like I’m gonna puke. But one thing I predict:

    Bill Clinton gives a great speech, bashes Bush to smitherines, and reminds us that “It’s the economy, stupid.” Maybe that will get people thinking about Hillary again.

  673. PUMA talks about taking their party back, since when did the party belong to the Clintons? Talk about elitist. Obama won fair and square. It was the Clintons who moved the bar every time something did not go their way.

    Go ahead and vote for McCain but don’t whine and complain when he continues with Bush’s policies and nominates judges like Alito and Roberts to the Supreme Court.

    One has to wonder why the people behind PUMA even supported Sen. Clinton in the first place when they threaten to vote for McCain. Their views are on both sides of the spectrum. There is too much at stake for a bunch of sore losers to take their frustration out by trying to control the outcome of this years election. Would you seriously feel this way if your house was being foreclosed or your child was in Iraq? Either you folks truly are whack jobs or you have no idea what McCain stands for. The Clinton era is over and it’s time to move on and rebuild the Democratic party.

  674. Well, bill, let’stalk about Obama’s record. Oh wait, that’s right, HE DOESN’T HAVE ONE. Conveniently absent, oh sorry “present” when it came to a decision.

    As far as McCain’s flip flopping, I TOTALLY agree. He flip flops all the time. He flip flops so much I get sea sick. It’s called “Shoring up your base.” When you are in politics, you have to be…well…political. No one wins without it.

    I believe he is against torture.
    I believe he is for green energy.
    I believe he wants to drill here, as a bridge to get us off foreign oil altogether.
    I believe he is against irresponsible tax cuts if they are not accompanied by cuts in wasteful spending.
    I believe he is for a strong America in dealing with terrorists and terrorist nations.

    I don’t think he gives a rat’s ass about overturning Roe v Wade.

    If I can’t have Hillary, then he ain’t all that bad.

  675. Many PUMAs, General Zod, are supporting other candidates, such as Cynthis McKinney and Ralph Nadar. I have respect for each of them. I especially like Ms. McKinney because, I believe, she walked out of Bush’s 2000 Congressional roll call for verifying the Presidential vote in January, 2001.

    You do bring up an interesting point: you state: “The Clinton era is over…” which to me speaks of what the Obama-ettes are all about: They are not so much for Obama as they are AGAINST the Clintons. Thanks for pointing that out and reminding us. As for me, I will support Hillary in 2012–will you?

  676. Caroline, I so totally, totally agree with you. What an excellent post!–(especially that “rat’s ass” thing)

    BTW, I plan on rejoining the Dems if McCain wins and supporting Hillary in 2012, and I want to get in on the ground floor this time. That is my hope.

  677. Right. 2012. It will be here before you know it. I only pray the DNC uses this time to sort out its blunders.

    As for party unity, I see there are a lot of posts from Obama supporters who swear up and down they would have supported Hillary if the tables were turned. From speaking to my fellow Democrats who support Obama, nothing could be farther from the truth. Many Obama supporters I know say if Hillary “stole” it from Obama by counting the Florida and Michigan delegates, they wouldn’t vote or they would vote for McCain. They were adament about it.

  678. ALso, I hate to say it, but race mattered a lot when the DNC decided to push Obama through. They were scared that if they let the Florida and Michigan votes count, the black voters would freak out. Then they lowered the number of delegates needed so Obama could hop over the line. I’m sorry, but you just let a less qualified candidate get through primarily because he’s black.

    That is bad for America, and even worse for black people. It’s like saying, We know you haven’t quite got this one, but we’ll give it to you because you’re black and we feel guilty.

    I guess when it comes to cards, black man trumps white woman,

    What a hoax.

  679. I live in Florida. We had our primary & voted in spite of the fact that we were told the results wouldn’t count (which was stipulated by Clinton & Obama). Our state isn’t taking the stand against Obama that you are but gee thanks for your concern for MY state. This swing state will go for Obama & help him win the presidency so that John McSenile can retire to one of his 7 homes (at last count). And his wife’s alcohol portfolio will do better under Obama than under another disastrous Republican administration.

  680. Another reminder for the Obamabots: Republicans have been in the White House for 20 of the last 28 years. Certainly, we’d be barefoot and pregnant and standing in the bread line on food stamps by now if it all rests on having a Dem in the White House. Give up the Chicken Little whining, man up and admit that the reason Dems keep losing is because they keep putting up weak candidates.

  681. Yep Republicans have been in charge for 20 of the last 28 years and what party balanced the budget? Bush 1&2&Reagan all claimed to be fiscal conservatives & so does McSenile. So watch the deficit climb from $480Billion this year if McSenile gets in there. It takes a Democrat to clean up the Republicans RED INK.

  682. I am in Florida, Bill, and you have no idea what you’re talking about. The state’s Dems were raped in the primary. You must be one of those whiny Obama-ettes who didn’t vote and now blames the Hillary supporters and worked to surpress the vote of your fellow Dems in Florida.

    But enough about you.

    Once more: McCain is not Bush. It speaks to the intergrity–or lack of it–by the Obama-ettes on this site that they must constantly attempt to make a connection between the two. But that must be because they have nothing else to offer the voter.

    It’s amazing how many Obama-ettes are suddenly from Florida. Any O-ette from Michigan yet?

  683. GO Teddy Kennedy GO!!! The Lion is about to ROAR!!!

  684. i haven’t missed a vote in my life. I turned 18 just in time to vote against Richard Nixon in 1972 (the biggest criminal the White House had seen until Bush-Cheney). I voted for McGovern in my first vote & am proud to have voted against President Watergate. Now we have the biggest criminals ever (makes Nixon look clean as a whistle). I’ll never miss a vote & neither will my BIG CATHOLIC Family & we all vote straight ticket Democrat.

  685. Caroline, I was attempting to watch the convention, and I almost made it–until Caroline Kennedy came out and said: “I am here to speak about two men who changed my life–Barack Obama and…” I almost threw up and had to turn it off. Though, I am interested in watching Teddy, since he has given his life to the Dem party I knew and loved and want to show him respect and gratefulness for his hard work and dedication. I just don’t think I can stomach it.

    As far as a black man trumping a woman of any color: Back in the day of Gloria and Bella and Betty (this will make those Obama-ettes scramble for their Google!), I clearly remember Gloria saying that equality will come first for black men, then for white women, and then for women of color. IOW, a PENIS trumps a VAGINA any day, lol. Even Gerry Ferraro called this out, and she should know. It’s pretty sad, but remember sexism is the last racism in this country. As for me, I wish Stephanie Tubbs Jones was still alive! She was an amazing woman and when she spoke, men shut up, sat down, and listened. She was a great spirit and the dems lost a wonderful rep of their party.

  686. Bill:

    McCain is not senile.

    Florida went into it knowing their votes wouldn’t count, THROUGH NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN. The voters didn’t decide to move thr primary up, and they didn’t choose to be silenced. All that wa forced on them by the DNC.

    Lets all pause the bickering and say a prayer for Ted Kennedy and his family. It breaks my heart. That’s the hardest battle any human being can face.

  687. Hillbilly for Hillary is a great ambassador for your cause. “Coat hangers?” “Rape?” Interesting choice of words. Are you sure, Hillbilly that you support Hillary? Hillary Clinton? “It takes a village…” That Hillary? I love Hillary. Hillbilly, you are no supporter of Hillary.

    Hillary and Barack are simpatico on the issues. Iraq, tax relief for the middle class, green economy,

    What will McCain do for health care? What will he do about tax relief for the MIDDLE class? What will he do for Veterans benefits. All the veterans benefits groups give him a failing grade.

  688. It’s good, Bill, that you are Catholic and you vote Democrat. I’m impressed. The Catholics seem totally obsessed with the abortion issue–a one note voting block, and also seem to try to hide their Catholicism by calling themselves Christians instead of Catholics. We must be around the same age. I was also born and raised Catholic. I commend you and your family.

    I am prochoice, progun, and am supporting John McCain because my party screwed me, my state and the state of Michigan in their obsession and insanity and hatred of Bill and Hillary Clinton as General Zod was so kind to remind us. My former party raped Democracy and now wants me to support that atrocity. You can if you choose. I choose not to.

    I also did not like Nixon and Watergate–a travesty if there ever was one–certainly on par with the rapes of 2000 and 2008. Nixon, however, did redeem himself by going on to become a great elderstatesman, President Clinton did consult with him before Nixon died in 1994. Nadar and McKInney are also PUMA alternative choices for Obama.

  689. Everybody be quiet now. The next First Lady of the USA will be speaking soon. And here’s a clue it ain’t pill popping CIndy McBusch.

  690. Sorry, Bill, but you’ve got it wrong. It took a Clinton to clean up the budget mess. It was talent, not the D after the candidate’s name that should get the credit IMO. Obama is no Clinton, and he’s not Kennedy either. It’s funny that Obama and his followers feel the need to try and attach him to someone else’s past glory. It’s because he’s got nothing on his own. He’s a sham.

  691. Chiy, you have no idea who I am. You merely come on here trying to incite trouble. Why aren’t you watching Senator Kennedy speak? He is the elder statesman of your party. Where is your respect for your party? Where is your respect for yourself? I think you need a Civics lesson, dear. Every vote counts equally, and every registered voter in America gets a vote.

    I’ll be happy to give you the next lesson once you understand this one. Let me know when you are ready, dear.

  692. Reminder: JFK had quite a bit of experience. Much more than BO has. BO is most similar to Bush than any other past President. We’ve just witnessed how much damage an inexperienced, self-involved person can do as POTUS. IMO, we don’t need a repeat!

  693. Cindy McCain is a lady. But I do not expect you to understand or respect that. It would be beyond your capability.

    One thing I’ve noticed about the Obama-ettes is that they cannot engage in discourse. What’s the matter, kids—no teleprompter?

  694. HFH, my daughter lives in Florida. She’s an Independent who would have voted for Hillary. Her vote will go to McCain instead. I don’t know where anyone gets the idea that Florida will go blue. I just don’t see it happening. It was always going to be tight, and the mess the DNC made of the primary isn’t any way to win voters over.

  695. Hillbilly,

    Like you I can type and watch tv at the same time. I listened to Sen Kennedy. Though I wonder if he’s the elder statesman of YOUR party? I think your true colors are showing… dear.

    And I’m trying to engage you in discourse. How does McCain’s platform stack up against Hillary’s? Not too much in common.

  696. gxm, this is so true. JFK was a decorated war hero, just like…John McCain! One of several of the problems with the Obama-ettes is that their idea of history is, like, wow, totally yesterday. And even yesterday is considered archaic to them.

    Also, good point on President Clinton. We had eight years of peace and prosperity in America under Bill, even though we had a Repub Congress from 94 onward. Remember Newt and ‘Contract With (we then-Dems would have said “on” America”?) It shows that Bill was able to work across party lines, much like—Hillary! Remember, what you are seeing on this blog from the Obama-ettes is not so much support for Obama as hatred of Bill and Hill.

  697. Yes. I have been a Dem, young lady, since the 70s. I am no longer a Dem. If you want to vote for Obama, dear, please feel free to do so. I will not attempt to change your mind.

    Senator Kennedy was a great supporter of the great Democratic party of the 60s-70s-80s. He stood for the principles of FDR and Truman. If you do not know who those men are, I suggest you Google them.

    And btw, you are exactly right–apparently you can type and listen to TV at the same time–type, but not communicate.

    What is your game, sweetie? Where do YOU stand on the issues? Do you stand for anything but hate?Wh ere are YOU from? What is your political experience? Are you even old to vote?

    Afraid to answer questions, dear? How Obama-ette!

  698. I like to think I supported Hillary because of her comprehensive health care plan. But nothing energized me more than the thought of a woman making it to the white house. (I badly want it to happen before my daughters grow up).

    Should I switch to McCain?

    The way I see it, Obama’s health care plan, although cautiously pragmatic, does cover children fully. Children’s health and education are deciding factors for me. Regardless of how I feel, it is hard to ignore basic policy differences in this regard.

  699. Chiy, One more thing before your parents send you off to bed: I live in Florida. The Dem primary votes of my state were not counted. Nor were they counted in MIchigan. SInce the DNC chose to disenfranchise 3 million voters, I chose to follow my conscience and leave the party. I believe that all people–not just Obama-ettes and cultural stereotypes–are equal. After looking at all the candidates, I have concluded that John McCain is the best choice to lead this country. It is my choice, dear. If you read my posts, you will see I am consistent in my message because it is the truth. I do not agree with McCain on some issues, but I trust and respect him to lead our country.

    And you are supporting Obama because:??????

  700. Neil, I cannot tell you how to vote. You must vote your conscience. We all have different reasons for voting for our candidates. I wish you the best in your decision, even if it for someone I do not support. Good luck, and feel free to ask questions here., We PUMAs will be happy to give you honest answers.

  701. gxm–I am very proud of you and your daughter. My county is solidly for McCain, but then that’s nothing new. It’s a Repub county. It has been for years.

    Even though I am now non-party affiliated, I will support Dems on the lower tickets.

    In the primary, my county went solidly for HILLARY. I mean, overwhelmingly for Hillary., So much so, that I think she may have even won this county, or certainly come close. Many moderate Repubs liked her as well. It upsets me so much to see how the Dems blew it. They could have had the WH for 16 years! It still breaks my heart.

  702. Neil, consider a third party candidate. I’m supporting McKinney because I’m tired of holding my nose and voting party line. Maybe if more voters started to seriously consider the third party options, we’d begin to see better candidates from the two major parties.

  703. I tell you gxm, if I thought for one minute that Ms. McKinney or Mr. Nadar stood a chance, I’d vote for either of them in a heart beat. Cynthia McKinney is one tough woman!

  704. PUMA, you’re funny. You come on here and post that stale, old clip. All the while ignoring the nasty names that posters are calling the Hillary supporters on this very board. Get a clue. Obamabots can’t go around calling Hillary and her supporters vile names and then expect us to give a damn when some Republican woman calls Hillary the b-word. I got three words for ya: BFD.

  705. Yeah, puma, we are all aware of that bitch thing.

    Are you aware of Obama flipping off Hillary and her supporters? ARe you aware, sweetie, of Obama calling that reporter sweetie, sweetie? Are you aware of Michelle Obama never being proud of her country until her husband ran for president.

    This is old news. What else ya got?

  706. Gee, gxm, puma is really proud of that clip! He/she has posted it twice!

  707. Reading these posts, I’m reminded of what I was sometimes told as a kid – “Be careful of what you ask for…you just might get it!”

  708. Did anyone see Chris Matthews comments tonight on Hardball? He called the PUMA folks a “bunch of wackos” I wonder if he was a little confused and was actually referring to himself.

  709. HFH, I’m sending McKinney money and I plan to vote for her. But that doesn’t mean I won’t vote for McCain if she’s not on the ballot. Some say that Virginia will be close, so I just may get into the voting booth and make a last minute decision to give my vote to McCain. The problem is that I really like McKinney and she’s the candidate who most reflects my views and values. Like another poster said earlier, it’s gonna be a tough call for a lot of us.

  710. let’s see…hmmm

    would i rather be called sweetie, or a bitch!

  711. gxm, let’s take it one day at a time. That’s what these blogs are for. Knowing that we have each other is what makes us unstoppable for truth, justice, and the American way, lol. We SHALL OVERCOME!

    Chris Matthews hates anyone and anybody who is not in the tank for Obama, Crash. My husband and I actually blocked MSNBC for a while because he and the late Tim Russert (may he rest in peace) and Oblerman were soooooooooooo sickening to watch. Remember, anybody who doesn’t agree with the Obama party line is either a hated Repub or a dreaded malcontent. It has never occured to the Obama minions that there are those of us in this country who think for ourselves.

    PS: Notice how quiet it;’s gotten here? I guess all the Obama-ettes must be watching Michelle.

  712. I don’t know, Puma. Would you rather be called sweetie or a bitch? Don’t you know? Or didn’t the Obama police tell you?

  713. for me, this is funny and sad…to make the case againt one, you distort and misconstrue the words of others.

  714. Night, everybody. Get plenty of rest! Tomorrow’s another day of great blogging! Obama-ettes, study your manuals!

  715. it’s easy to redirect the issue, than answer the question. hillary never disrespected barack, though you could argue that some of her surrogates did. barack never disrespected hillary, though you could argue that some of her surrogates did. politics is rough, get over it!

  716. Puma–is there a difference? But you are still supporting Obama, right? How old are you? 20?

    And this is what we fought the women’s movement for?????????

  717. …and people wonder why d.c. can’t function to solve problems?

  718. Puma, I’m trying to go to bed here, lol., Unlike you youngsters, we old and bitter gun and God clingers need our beauty sleep. You stil have haven’t answered my question.

  719. i would think yes…notwithstanding what you think of barack, do you honestly think that michelle would put up with anyone who was demeaning to women? i think that you got a pretty good idea of what john mccain thought when he offered up his wife for “Ms. Buffalo Chip” a few weeks ago.

  720. i’ll answer yours when you answer mine

  721. PUMA, you’re not fooling anyone. Hillary and her supporters have been called a lot worse by their fellow Dems. I don’t care what that McCain supporter said. It’s only the Obamabots who pretend to find that clip offensive.

  722. but i think that’s my point…once you take the emotion out of it – which I’ve done – what do you have left? what does it say when the person that you support, whole-heartedly, tells you to support her rival – and you still refuse?

  723. …”by fellow Dems” so you take that out on Barack. Do you feel the same way about other Dems that basically called Barack a muslim or terrorist?

  724. Ladies & Gentleman the next First Lady of the USA Michelle Obama. Hit the sack so you can get your Republican talking points early in the morning Pumas. Rove will be contacting you to give you your marching orders.

  725. but – you want to go to bed…i’ll leave you alone.

  726. …but i suspect that you don’t. i think that’s part of the problem…

  727. Hillybilly and gxm,

    I won’t be voting from a swing state, so I could vote a third party candidate or even McCain to make a statement. It won’t change the outcome.

    During the primaries I was at the receiving end of some bitterness from Obama supporters. They were mostly younger voters who probably hadn’t fully experienced the frustration of the last eight years. My cynical friend (also a Hillary supporter) and I used to joke that the real reason we wanted Hillary was because nothing would hurt the Bush-Rove people more than watching another Clinton in the WH.

    But overall when I sit back, I tend to see that the big divide in the democratic party is not over policies. If the Obama supporters were looking at policies they couldn’t have been as critical of me for supporting Hillary.

    Even if my vote counts for nothing, I want to share my thinking with the kids all the way to the polling booth. I want to take a deep breath and tell them that the elections are and should always be about policies. Not personalities, not about the bloke that you can have coffee with, not about hating a candidate’s spouse. But policies.

    And the best policies may not often be what looks best on paper, perhaps they should also be the less controversial and the most popular.

    So I might end up arguing my way into the Obama camp after all.

    All the best to you two, and may we all get the government we deserve.

  728. I’m not a lemming. I support the candidate of my choice. My vote doesn’t “belong” to Hillary (or my first two choices Kucinich and Edwards). Obama is a terrible candidate and I won’t vote for him just because the DNC tells me to. That’s not an “emotional” choice. It’s an honest, carefully considered choice. It’s looking at the candidates, doing the research and realizing that the person who would best represent my values is Cynthia McKinney. IMO, a vote for Obama is no better than a vote for Bush.

  729. What a beautiful family. They’ll do the White House proud.

  730. How very shallow. The White House needs a capable leader, not some subjective idea of an attractive family. No wonder this country is going down the tubes.

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