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“The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves”

Tsk-tsk, this little tantrum from Meteor Blades at the Big Orange Cheeto does not sound very “unifying”:

I’m no fan of third parties because history shows only one making the leap to even the lower rungs of national power. But I can at least understand voters who jump ship to a third party based on principle and symbolism and hope for a breakthrough in a direction amicable to their beliefs. You McCainocrats, on the other hand, are incomprehensible. Is the idea that voting for another four years of rightwing Republican rule would be worth it as long as you could say: “See? We told you Obama couldn’t win.” Does the McCainocrat lunacy embrace the idea that four more years of a Republican in the White House would make Clinton a shoo-in for 2012?

If that’s what your telling me, if you’re willing to force the American people to suffer for your chance to say nah-nah-nah, I’ll have two words for you when you come around looking for my support for any candidate or any cause in 2012 or any other time in the future: Bite me.

No, I am not providing a link.

Isn’t it delightful? I am actually quite encouraged by this. We have something they are positively desperate to get- OUR VOTES. They thought we would just blissfully acquiesce like we have every four years. We would just hand them over with a whip and say, “I clearly deserve to be beaten for withholding my initial support. Please accept my apologies. Leave marks this time so I never forget.”

Not this time. For the record, our opposition has nothing to do with race on our side. Race is the obsession of the DNC and the Obama supporters. No, this has everything to do with the party power players taking direction from a small core while offending the people they need to actually win: women, elderly, working class, hispanics, gays. What does Meteor Blades think we’ve been doing for the past eight years? Basking in our privileged status under oppressive Republican rule? Does he think we aren’t aware of the mess the GOP has made of the country?

We are all too aware. That is why we DON’T want Obama. And Meteor Blades offensive little attacks on us are not going to get us to hand over our votes for him Get it through your head, MB, we are NOT voting for him unless he is Hillary’s VP. If that makes you mad, tough $%#^. If you are so desperate for a Democrat in the White House, you still have a choice. We are not culpable for your choices and we are under no obligation to indulge your irresponsible fantasy.  We will not reward bad behavior and poor decision making.

Our votes are not the property of the DNC or Meteor Blades. They are OURS. We give them to whomever we want. So, if you want our votes for a Democrat, I suggest you drop the “bite me” crap and start Kissing Our Asses.

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179 Responses

  1. If Hillary does not become our nominee this year she will not run again (at least I very much doubt it)…so I do not know what all this 2012 talk is all about.

    Obama will most likely become the Dem. nominee. I will not vote for him. As I stated before I will not vote for McCain either.

    So bite me.

  2. start Kissing Our Asses.

    Mmmm, I think that ranks w/ desperate girl sitting by the phone waiting for the prom date – and BO doesn’t do that!

    When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.

    p.s. I really didn’t want my ass kissed, anyway.

  3. ooooohhhhh, over 700K! 800K by the end of next week?

  4. Let’s face it, w/o the Hillary-hate, BO’s got nuttin’

    I predict his campaign will fall flat when he no longer has Hillary as a convenient foil.

  5. The 2012 talk is because they can’t help themselves, they have to attribute bad or cynical motives to anyone who disagrees with them.

  6. […] 06/01/08 9:00 AM Meteor Blades typifies the idiocy and arrogance of Obamacult, while Ezra Klein continues to demonstrate why he can no longer be taken […]

  7. Well said. However the DNC and the elites have sent the message loud and clear that they are prepared to loose in November in order to continue to put forth their agenda. In reality it is they that will make a McCain presidency possible.

  8. honestly for me it’s about economics and sharing power. Ordinary Americans are losing too much power and are struggling to just to make ends meet and I don’t find the Obama/DNC’s actions adequate.

    Geraldine Ferraro really nailed it for me in this quote:

    They [working class white voters] may lack a formal higher education, but they’re not stupid. What they’re waiting for is assurance that an Obama administration won’t leave them behind.

    Hope, change, and inspiration don’t do it.

  9. hlr: I know they don’t really intend to Kiss our Asses. But his supporters are going to find their demands for unity will fall on deaf ears if we all stick together and say, “If you want my vote, you have to kiss my ass”.
    Look, we have an incredibly powerful thing here. They really think they are going to get our votes without having to lift a finger. They think they can insult us and we’ll still vote for The Precious.
    We can wield this weapon against them. They will turn the haka up to 11 but it won’t matter because we don’t have to give them a damn thing. Let them keep it up until Denver and let’s see what happens when they find they aren’t making any headway.
    As the anger builds and the summer gets hotter, we just sit back with a smile, cool, like butter wouldn’t melt in our mouths. We don’t owe them a damn thing.
    They either get the message and start to dial it back or they look forward to McCain in the fall. We are not responsible for the choices they make.

  10. hlr: probably not, the hatred will be redirected to “grandpa”. Sexism among the O’s will likely be replaced by ageism.

    You know how the GOP revisits the “gay threat to everything American” every electoral cycle. The DNC will do its “supreme court fear mongering” counterpart.

    It is always the same.

  11. RD: We don’t owe them a damn thing.

    Oh, I totally agree.

  12. UpstateNY: Sexism among the O’s will likely be replaced by ageism.

    I don’t think the GE demographics quite favor that kind of strategy … but it will amuse me to see them deploy this.

  13. Well said. Dem women are tired of being told to be quiet and get busy helping elect our candidates.

    My party’s record on a multitude of public policy issues is abysmal and growing worse with each election. Its almost as though public policy is an afterthought, instead of a priority.

    To the Obama campaign and our current Dem leadership – my support for the party is no longer meekly compliant and unconditional. If you want my vote, my money, my organizing and campaigning skills – you’re going to have to earn it.

  14. Upstate: Who the fuck cares where they direct their anger? They want our votes. They can’t get them unless they start earning them. They are unlikely to start doing this so it will be up to the party elders who should act like grown ups and tell them to sit down and shut up. If the party elders choose not to do this, then they deserve to lose and be replaced.
    It is our right to do with our vote what we please.

  15. Judging by that last bonmot, “bite me”, it serves an example of the type of Obama supporter. Some wiseguy undergrad with little sense of history or political knowledge. Kos has the edge but HuffPo and more recently MyDD have become the meeting places for these diatribes aimed at the Clinton supporters. It is difficult to argue with a blogger who is stuffed to the gills with McDonald’s and french fries and typing the word dude into the comment sections. As I have said before, these people are not your average PhD or physiologist speaking.

    They can save their ass kissing. I am not budging. A vote for Obama is a confirmation of all we have come to despise in this primary. A validation of the abuse and indifference that will surely play out until his defeat.

  16. More to Obama folks and Dem leaders – and stop treating my party’s nomination process as if its a season of American Idol. Its disgraceful, and not what the Democratic party stands for. Grow up.

  17. Kissing your asses now–after engaging in a brutalizing, polarizing, hate-based campaign will only embolden such tactics in the future. Clinton would have fucking won so they not only killed off the first woman nominee but also the first woman president!

    Any vote for Obama is a vote for this truly historical travesty.

    No! Not now, not ever.

  18. Oh, and I didn’t even mention the fact they relied on disenfranchisement and goddamn vote theft!

  19. Riverdaughter:

    “Let them keep it up until Denver and let’s see what happens when they find they aren’t making any headway.
    As the anger builds and the summer gets hotter, we just sit back with a smile, cool, like butter wouldn’t melt in our mouths. We don’t owe them a damn thing.”

    Yes! You have it just right, as usual. We are in the driver’s seat now. We have nothing, absolutely nothing to lose by just sitting tight and holding onto our votes and our self-respect. This doesn’t surprise me. I never expected the Obamicans (did MB steal his term from that one) to really try to unify the party. Let them simmer and come to a boil through the long, hot summer ahead. Denver will be a very interesting place at the end of August.

  20. I doubt we will be hearing any more of the “they’ll unite behind Obama” prattle, especially since it’s one thing to support his competitor, and quite another to actually distrust and dislike a candidate.

    In my case, it’s both.

    Everywhere I go, I run into somebody who–Hillary fan or not–does not like Obama.

    Funny how hypocrisy, race-baiting, an overall dirty campaign, and lack of qualifications can sink a guy.

    I’m giving my vote some gusto by casting it for McCain. Anything less (IF Obama is the nominee), and I tell the DNC that they can broker elections in the future.

    Brokered elections = far scarier than 9 Scalias on SCOTUS.

  21. Already the foghorns are bleating out coverage of BO’s ass regarding the Pfleger video.

    AARadio had a different host on this AM who played the tape of the Rev. and called it great American humor.

    They insisted that it was just comic theater and bore no relation to politics.

    If there is anything good to feel if HRC is criminally blanked out in this Primary, it is that these brave new obamaworld crap-throwers will have to find other targets.

  22. UpstateNY: DNC will do its “supreme court fear mongering” counterpart.

    Yeah, I’m already utterly bored w/ the ‘best protector’ sweepstakes, whether it’s the terrorists in the bushes or the SC terra.

  23. one of the talking heads on the am shows stated w. a smile that they really believed we would be unified by convention time. He went on to say, “Women always follow the rules”. I fervrently hope that women understand that this is not the time to follow the rules that are so unfair to them.

    No rule says women have to vote. Women should send a clear message to the Democratic Party that women must be counted. Bob Schieffer asked that if Obama were not nominated would the African American community still vote, that the election could not be won w/o the AA vote. A Clinton spokesperson deftly turned the question back to Schieffer and said that the same could be said about women. The election cannot be won w/o the vote of women. How about it women?

  24. I’ve said this many times on here and elsewhere. I am from Texas and I sure don’t feel repressed, suppressed, oppressed or any other dry cleaning derivative and I’ve been living under Republican rule for years now. I don’t agree with anything the Bush administration has done the past 7 years; however, did the democrats do anything to oppose the guy? When they took Congress back did they do anything except cower in fear? At least with republicans I know what I am getting. Obama and the DNC are even more cynical, even more corrupt, and even more stupid. Yeah, I am going to vote for Obama.

  25. Why would President Obama do anything to protect Roe v. Wade since he and his supporters have shown such deep contempt for women??

  26. marisa: Everywhere I go, I run into somebody who–Hillary fan or not–does not like Obama.

    Excellent point. I know a lot of people who were, at best, lukewarm on Hillary, but really dislike Obama.

    Some of the older folks in my neighborhood are still screaming that we need more candidates and the media forced BO on us.

  27. Just keep in mind that he only needs 51% in the general to win. Bill Clinton won with less but there were 3 contenders at that time. This is what they are counting on. A squeeze victory. If they can pick up a red state here or there they will consider this a landslide on his behalf. Florida and Ohio may be up for grabs but he will more than likely carry those big states that went for Hillary. I cannot actually see MA, NY, CA going for McCain. I could be wrong and I would like to see him defeated on his own accord and not helped by some of us threatening to go to McCain.

  28. It is incomprehensible to me that this kind of nonsense is coming from “supposedly” intelligent people. I don’t frequent the orange sty anymore than I would walk barefoot through a pigsty. Apologies to the pigs for comparing them to the orange sty.

    What kind of a fool believes this is the way to encourage someone to see their point of view? Call me names and then expect me to walk quietly into my place as a submissive little Democrat? I won’t ask if this meteor person is crazy because it is all too apparent that he/she is.

    My vote is mine. It is not the Democratic Parties, it is not the Democratic nominees and it most definitely isn’t the property of some ranting blogger.

    Take your rant and shove it where the sun don’t shine meteor bloviator. Even guys that only want to get into a woman’s pants know they should talk nice and pay for a drink or two. Your kind is evidently of the “beat the little woman bloody” school of persuasion.

  29. Pat,

    Sadly, Meteor Blades is a couple of years older than I am, and does know history. He was even one of the students who went down South to register black voters during Freedom Summer. My impression is that he has fallen in love with the idea of having a black president and has lost touch with any other democratic values he once had. He has sold his soul, and he is a person who should know better. That diary is embarrassing.

  30. Meteor Blades statement doesn’t exactly speak to his confidence that Obama will be the nominee (or win in the fall)

  31. …if you’re willing to force the American people to suffer…

    Dear Meteor Blades,

    We won’t have to force the American people to suffer.
    By 2012 Obama will have done a better job than any Clinton supporter or the Clintons themselves ever could.

    Senator Clinton, who has observed Senator Obama up close, surely knows this. Why do you think she is fighting so hard? Of course, should she,or, saints preserve us,John McCain, prevent the debacle of an Obama presidency you and all Senator O’s supporters will never have to see him as the average machine pol he is instead of the savior you have painted him to be.

  32. Thank you so much for this post. You nailed my feelings exactly. I will not be held hostage to the supreme court nominations or any other scary thing they feel will move the masses. I have done that for 3 election cycles and the nominees just keep getting worse. Gore would have been a good president, Kerry would have been tolerable and Obama, should he be the nominee, just has no experience in the world stage and will be overwhelmed. There is something to be said about knowing how the world works that only the college of hard knocks will give you.

    It is time to stand up to the powers that be and say no. Ultimately they need to know that they have to earn our vote and respect, it is just not given because of the “Democrat” brand.

  33. “He went on to say, “Women always follow the rules”. ”

    Yeah, I’ll follow the rule that I can vote as I choose.

  34. bb: What a disappointment. Especially coming out of the mouth of an educated man. Especially someone who has dedicated himself to the principles of fairness who does not see that his own behavior is alienating and his use of the vernacular is demeaning.

  35. RD: “They are unlikely to start doing this so it will be up to the party elders who should act like grown ups and tell them to sit down and shut up.”

    Donna is one of the elders. So is Howard. ummmmhhh. Doomed, we are doomed….I say.

    I know I should, but after yesterday, I really do not care anymore. Wife reached this state of mind a few weeks ago (she is the smart one…it always takes me a little bit longer to follow suit…)

  36. Pat,

    I can definitely see MA, PA, NJ, and OH going for McCain. Do you honestly think that the average voter in those states is going to vote for the candidate who has Wright, Pfleger, Ayers, Dohrn, Khalidi, Auchi, and Rezko hanging around his neck? Do you really think Michelle is going to go over with the same people who didn’t like Theresa Hines Kerry? And you think red states will vote for him? We’ll see, but I don’t think so. I think he’ll be in Dukakis territory, if not McGovern/Mondale territory.

  37. Ladies, I’m telling you: the only way to truly send your message to Obama, the DNC, and every other bigoted fuck is to not vote for Obama no matter what he tries to sell you.

    And don’t be afraid to punch them in the collective balls by voting for McCain. It’s up to the Democratic Congress to put up or shut up.

  38. Their sanctimonious bluster blew us out to sea.

    Do they imagine more sanctimonious bluster will bring us back?

    Sorry, old man, only your pigeons are coming home to roost.

    Buy an umbrella.

  39. As far as a squeeze election they should not get their hopes to high. Barr, who many Obamacrats see as their savior only pulls 1% more from Rep than Dems.

    As far as ageism, I would agree. I think the “sexism” will be replaced by an “ageism” in the context of Social Security. He will provoke under 30 angst at the cost of the entitlement, along with AA angst that they have not gotten their “fair share” out of the entitlement. We will here much more talk of means testing if he is elected. What did you think he was referring to when he said bipartisanship.

  40. I can’t work the electoral college map hard enough to give a win to Obama.

    gob-smacked! I now know exactly what that means.

  41. bb: I just cannot see MA going to McCain. Perhaps I am myopic but we know MA politics and this state is probably the most liberal in the nation. Even during Reagan’s landslides MA remained blue.

    Obama is going to be given a free pass by the press. They will do this simply because they backed him almost singularly from the beginning and will never admit it may have been the wrong move. They will cheer him on as our first “black” president and he will benefit from the lack of scrutiny just as W did in 2000. They have made their bets on this horse.

    Unless he messes up so royally that it cannot be swept under the rug, he will enjoy one free ride. McCain will be the one getting mugged (and more than likely, deservedly so). All the winner needs is that 51%.

  42. As someone whose eco diaries were rescued many times by Meteor Blades, (back then Cheatopia respected media inquiry and rational thought – till so many of us exited stage left)

    ….until I supported (God forbid) the last remaining eco policy wonk,
    https://riverdaughter.wordpress.com/2008/05/18/what-should-superdelegate-al-gore-do/
    to me, this is sadder than kos himself defecting to the dark side of lies to support the puppet of dirty energy – the Manchurian candidate of the Bipartisan Policy Center.
    http://www.bipartisanpolicy.org/
    http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2008/3/14/221425/110
    http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/obamas-k-street-project-2007-03-28.html

    Because kos has not sold out to the oil co’s whose ads he carries.

    He never respected climate voters anyway. His book disses those who vote on mere policy like on “globalwarming”

  43. bostonboomer: I can definitely see MA, PA, NJ, and OH going for McCain.

    I agree. Look, I live in MD an unrelentingly blue state, but increasingly, people are telling me that they won’t vote for BO. And you know what? When some Dem door knocker comes to their door, they’ll say ‘oh, sure, yep, I’ll vote for BO’ just not to get hassled.

    He hasn’t done all that well since Feb, something the party refuses to acknowledge. Given that he’s been declared the inevitable winner since Super Tues, it’s amazing that HRC has pulled out so many wins, but it also underscores BO’s lack of appeal.

  44. It’s their party now and welcome to it.
    Obama’s ‘new politics’ turned out to be old republican tactics: nonstop race baiting, but with age and gender baiting added; the usual simple minded cliches disguised as policy; false accusations and childish sneers; and of course voter fraud.
    We may vote for the candidate, but we should have too much integrity to give him our support.
    His supporters won’t understand why. And explanations are useless simply because they know zip about core Democratic values.
    It’s horrible to say, but we’re dealing with the hick side of the party: vulgar, unprinciplied, and obsessively self righteous. The cultural divide is just too great. They’re too ignorant to come to our side. And I won’t go to their’s.
    http://a-civilife.blogspot.com

  45. I don’t think we need to vote Rethug. McCain will win anyway. Hillary will be blamed anyway. The media will assume theres some groundswell of Rethugism.

    NO NO NO! NO NO NO!

    WE NEED TO TAKE THIS TO DENVER! I am not giving up the party to these paternalist Libertarian cheaters.
    http://anglachelg.blogspot.com/2008/05/libertarian-paternalism.html#comments

    WE are the Democratic party.

  46. BB: I could see NJ going for McCain. Yeah, all he has to do is work up a frenzy on taxes. All of those seniors who were former Clintonistas will glom onto him in a heartbeat. The wealthy central and northern Jerseyans are already McCain’s. Now, throw in the passionate Hillary supporters who gave her a decisive victory here in February and Obama can definitely lose NJ.

  47. Wow, that from Meteor Blades? You know, I might be able to get past the reprehensible behavior of Obama’s followers on the blogs (and from some I’ve met), if the candidate himself hadn’t gone out of his way to be equally disrespectful toward Hillary. Brush that dirt off your shoulder..

    If only the Unity Pony would stop crapping on everyone else, that’d be a start.
    http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/05/obama-wont-wait.html
    Asked if Obama would wait to get a concession call from Clinton before claiming the nomination, Dunn said the onus was on Clinton now that the Democratic Party has firmed up the number of delegates needed to claim the party’s nod.

    “He’s not going to wait by the phone like a high-school girl waiting for a date,” said Dunn. “That’s not Barack Obama.”

    “After Tuesday,” Dunn added, referring to the final contests of South Dakota and Montana, Clinton “can decide how united she wants this party to be.”

  48. Robin — We really have no idea what Obama would or wouldn’t do re Roe v Wade.

    We do know that anyone who is sincerely concerned about Roe v Wade should be doing their damndest to nominate a winner instead of a loser.

  49. Pat,

    Massachusetts went for Reagan in 1980 and 1984. Sometimes I try to blank it out too, but it happened. It could very well happen again this year if Obama is the nominee. Most people see John McCain as a moderate and Obama is going to be painted as a radical.

  50. I’m not concerne with Roe V Wade. That can not forever be used as a campaign tool.

    I’m hearing very low turnout in PR, damn it.

  51. I thought it was as a rule up to the winner to be magnanimous.

  52. Actually the thought of either one of them is stomach turning enough.

  53. can somebody dig my posts out of the sewage please?

  54. dot,

    I found two of your comments in the spam filter and released them. Awhile ago, I found one in moderation and released it.

  55. The difficult part is figuring what Hillary will/must do in the event of Obama winning the nomination. Obviously, she has to play “teamplayer” to a certain extent. I think if she just shows up at some rallies, smiles, and waves, that should be enough to say, “Hey, I tried.”

    But I hope she rejects all offers to be a part of him, and simply says that she will gladly go back to helping her state of NY, stay in the Senate, try and get into the leadership position in the next few years (bye, bye Harry!!), and when 2012 comes, she’ll have a choice to make about re-election or … well, 🙂

  56. the hatred will be redirected to “grandpa”. Sexism among the O’s will likely be replaced by ageism.

    I dunno.. Nothing energizes the netroots quite like hating a woman. And I’ll be frank, it happens to others too, even those I don’t agree with – Donna Brazile, Nancy Pelosi, Claire McCaskill, Condi Rice, Cindy McCain. Michelle Obama, whose speeches I really don’t like, but I am not here to trash her looks, her clothes, call her catty, etc.

    I don’t know how the netroots are going to manage to hate on a male quite the same way. McCain, if nothing else, isn’t one they can attack for not having balls, so I don’t know how they’ll make him into the same object of hatred – Kerry (circa 2003 was their worst enemy), Lieberman (c 2006). Unless I suppose he blows his top like Bill O’Reilly.

  57. thks bb

  58. capt,

    I don’t really see how Hillary could do that much good for Barack after they way he and his minions have demonized her and trashed Bill Clinton’s legacy. I don’t think they really expect her to campaign for him. I think they expect her to magically turn all of her supporters into Obama voters. She may do her best, but I don’t really think it will work at this point. There has just been too much abuse directed at us.

  59. Everywhere I go, I run into somebody who–Hillary fan or not–does not like Obama.

    Yup. My strong Hillary supporting friends – who don’t geek out on political blogs like me, at all – do not like Obama at all, and I know my mother and relatives on her side won’t vote for him. I don’t know if the ones my age will or not, theoretically they don’t live in swing states but I guess if he’s nominated he’ll need to have Virginia in play to make up for losing Ohio and Florida.

  60. capt: She should be honest. She can be a loyal party member and say she supports Obama as the nominee but also say that the job of unifying the party is the nominee’s, not his oppostion’s responsibility. She can only do so much to urge her supporters to vote for him. They are grown-ups, with free will and they will do what they please with their votes. It is Obama’s job to win them over. He has to earn their votes and there’s not a damn thing that Hillary Clinton can do to make that easier for him.

  61. dar1a g,

    That is a very good point about the anti-woman rage. In fact I wonder how the Obamicans are going to react when they see that he is another Dukakis or Kerry. I suppose they’ll blame Hillary, but what about when Obama himself really disappoints them?

  62. RD: Agreed, but I know it’ll be tough for her to balance. I know 4 years is an eternity, but she’s going to have to start figuring out how to play it now to be in a good position for then (even w/o knowing what she’ll do then…)

  63. capt: There will be no second chance for Hillary. She has been rejected by her party. The only way she gets a second chance is if the party changes.
    She’s better off in the senate with her dignity intact.

  64. Fox News is saying turn out in PR may only be 20%. Crap.

  65. We’re deeply uninterested in “kissing your asses”.

    You’re voting adults, you can make your decision in your own time. We’ll make our case and see how it flies. If you don’t like it, you won’t play with us. Viva democracy.

  66. So I can count on my blogger friends to keep up their resolve? And help me keep mine? I have this fear that when the dust settles and the anger subsides, the posts will stop and . . .

  67. the unification anagram from Obamabots describing Anti_Obama Clinton supporters

    G eneral
    E lection
    T antrum

    O ffering
    V indictive
    E fforts at
    R evenge

    I ncapable of
    T riumph

    C ampaign
    L ost but
    I nsisting on
    N omination
    T hreatening
    O bama in
    N ovember

    D etertermined to
    E nable
    M cCain
    S uccess

    at least its creative I suppose

  68. RD: She has been rejected by her party.

    Exactly.

    There’s been a steady stream of SDs for BO for a very long time. I don’t even believe that if HRC held a slim pledged delegate lead, that she would have received the nomination.

  69. Booman has a list up of the cabinet he expects Obama to appoint. A few highlights:

    Chuck Hagel, State; Sam Nunn, Defense; Gary Hart, Homeland Security; Austen Goolsbee, Treasury, Bill Bradley, Social Security Commissioner; Hillary Clinton, Secretary of Health and Human Services.

    Yeah, I’m sure Hillary will give up her Senate seat for HHS secretary. The job of that department will be to hand out federal grants to Rezko and buddies. Austen Goolsbee and Bill Bradley can put their heads together and get social security privatized and ship the rest of our jobs overseas. Goody.

    And this will be better than McCain how?

  70. Melanie: Church? Lunch? The polls are open for 2 more hours. Don’t give up hope.

  71. Boomer: No job for Edwards?

  72. Kim: the posts will stop and . . .

    Ye of little faith. The only change you might see is that there will be almost no discussion about the very uninteresting BO. You won’t mind, will you?

  73. Ella,

    Don’t you have something better to do? I’m sure there are some Cheeto diaries you could comment on. Please dribble your inanities somewhere else.

  74. I do not know a single Hillary supporter, myself included, who will vote for Obama. MB’s tantrum shows once again how incapable so many of BO’s followers are at taking any responsibility for the way his campaign has been conducted and the large number of people who have been left very, very angry. The narcissism from their side is breathtaking.

    I believe, as do many women I know, that what has been directed at Hillary has essentially by extension been directed at her supporters. Hard to wash the filth off.

    She must refuse a VP slot. She should have the win she deserves, or nothing.

  75. Ella: We’re not party members anymore. You have to suck up to us just like you would to any independent voters. So far, you’re sucking skills are severely wanting.
    Have a nice four years in political obscurity! After November, we’ll be the voters to get.

  76. He has Edwards down for Attorney General, but I don’t think that will happen. Edwards might want to hold someone accountable. I’m not sure he could go along with all the Bush/Chicago style corruption that BO is planning.

  77. No, I won’t mind at all. Although, I am sure some of his gaffes I will find quite amusing.

    I have gotten over my fear and now have a blog of my own to bitch in.

    http://kirafasrevolt.wordpress.com/wp-admin/

  78. bostonboomer — HHS is one of those token spots for women, just as HUD is for AAs.

    I’m bored already.

  79. ow, that cabinet totally sucks. God awful. I may have to vote for McCain.

  80. RD: After November, we’ll be the voters to get.

    I’m already shopping for a new outfit to look stylin’ for the occasion.

  81. Kim: I’m not going anywhere. I’m going to switch to down ticket candidates because as far as I can tell, Obama is toast in November. There’s no reason to cover him. And until the balloons drop in Denver, there is no reason for me to stop covering Clinton. I am at peace with my decision. Nothing could make me vote for Obama. You can hang out here with the rest of us suddenly extremely valuable and influential voters.

  82. BB: The statement just seemed a little unrealistic, is all.

    And congrats on the “Lipstick on a Pig!” shout at the meeting (Gary or Mawm? I can’t remember), which I’ve now seen reported in about five different MSM sources.

  83. Personally, I don’ t want Obamabots to kiss my ass.

    It’s over. I’m not coming back to the fold, I’m not “uniting for the sake of the party,” I not going to “vote for Obama because MCCain will be much worse.”

    Like Harriett Christian said, “God DAMN the Democratic Party.”

    Our party defended the right to VOTE and fought the battle for civil rights. They can’t claim that anymore.

    There is no Democracy in the Democratic Party. The title of the “Democratic Party” doesn’t suit the people in charge now. It’s like a bunch of prostitutes calling themselves the Carmelite Nuns.

    I spit on them.

    Rise, Hillary, Rise… FIGHT, Hillary, FIGHT!

  84. River,

    Old Coastie may be on to something. I also read MB’s statement to be a start of an obituary on Obama’s campaign.

    But MB’s rewriting the history NOW to make that loss the Clinton supporters’ fault. That’s the reference to 2012 and the future.

    As an old leftie, I see it. Winning a moral victory against the terrible Clintons and their racist supporters by purging the party. Then losing against the terrible forces of the greater darkness in the fall. A loss caused by the first set of evildoers, not just your ineptness.

    Great theater — wonderful marching songs — another generation or two of loss — but “gosh, darn, you feel good about yourself.” (Especially when you are someone who just gave up a few summers in undergrad and/or teaches undergrads.)

    Winning takes the willingness to take responsibility to say no to folks. It’s called being a grown up. That’s the answer back to MB.

  85. “Why would President Obama do anything to protect Roe v. Wade since he and his supporters have shown such deep contempt for women??”

    See, this is why Obama supporters distrust you folks. Do you know anything about Obama’s record on abortion? I can assure you that the pro-life crowd considers him an absolute enemy on this issue, even more than they oppose Clinton.

    If you think Obama deserves to lose to McCain, that is between you and your conscience, but don’t construct fabrications in order to justify it.

  86. Obama has no record on pro-choice, he voted “present” on mostly every vote that had to do with reproductive rights!

  87. I wonder if John Edwards has figured out already that now that Obama doesn’t need him to take up airtime after the WV loss, he won’t have much to do with him. Where’s JRE been lately?

  88. Step2: Do you know anything about Obama’s record

    You mean besides ‘Present?’ I don’t think his record, such that it is, while representing his state senate district is of any interest. Obama has shown that he’ll switch on a dime — see TUCC, rejection of.

    *That’s* what makes Obama untrustworthy. Pooh-poohs the flag pin in front of IA liberals, now has it as a permanent decoration. Blahs on about Wright, TUCC and his ‘faith’ in SC, KY etc, followed by rejection.

  89. Quoth tonva: He went on to say, “Women always follow the rules”.

    Right. Not this woman, not this time, not this election. What I find most interesting is that the convention is being held on the 88th anniversary of women – finally – getting the right to vote, 50 years after a black man obtained the right to vote, thanks to Elizabeth Cady Stanton and the rest of those fabulous women who worked their butts off then, just to be told to wait their turn.

    Je repete: Not this woman, not this time, not this election.

  90. Step2, my conscience will be just fine because I did not nor will not votre for an illegitimate candidate who stole the nomination.

    Obama is the George W. Bush of the Democratic* Party.

    * = Doesn’t believe in Democracy anymore since they gave votes/delegates to Obama which did not have his name next to it, and/or were uncheked or unopened.

  91. “We will not reward bad behavior and poor decision making.”
    that was my fav part.

    In the minds of many Clinton supporters like myself, Obama has shown himself to be nothing more than the democrat’s version of Bush. Sorry, just because he has a D after his name does not mean my vote is automatic.
    I do not believe Obama is any more interested in core democratic values than Bush is interested in Republicanism.
    He has supported and cynically benefited from racism and sexism throughout his campaign. He has campaigned with a homophobe, has stated he does not support gay marriage, and will not be interviewed by,or photographed with, gay rights activists. He supported John Roberts for the SCOTUS. He praised Reagan’s presidency while trashing President Clinton’s. He has no respect for the will of voters and accepts votes and delegates given to him by a commitee instead of voters.

    So tell me again why I shouldn’t vote for a Republican in November? The way I see it, if Obama is the nominee, it’s the only party being represented.
    Obama is as much a Democrat as my cat is. And I would sooner vote for my cat.
    McCain has at least crossed the aisle to work with democrats on certain issues. Obama would need to first be on one side of the aisle before he could attempt to cross it. But he is not. Like Bush, he only represents himself. Sorry, had enough of that sort of bullshit. I didn’t vote for Bush, and I am not gonna start supporting that brand of politics now or ever.

  92. Thank you RD consider me a fixture.

  93. Yo, MB! “Shriek” this, you condescending as*hole. You’re not the boss of me.

    You better start kissing our butts…and real fast.

  94. Yes, Step2. We know all about his record on abortion. We know about how he voted “present” whenever it came up in the IL legislature. Personally, I read what Obama said about abortion in his book. I didn’t like it. So, no I don’t trust him on abortion. I don’t trust him on the Supreme Court, since I know he was ready to vote for Roberts and had to be talked out of it.

    But social security and universal health care are even more important to me than reproductive rights. I fought for birth control and abortion when they were still illegal. Let the young women fight for it now. If they are stupid enough to vote for Obama, good luck to them.

  95. Step2: You’re wasting your time here. Young women will appreciate Roe so much more if they have to fight for it themselves. We’ve already been there, done that.
    Moving on…

  96. I didn’t watch the foreordained playout by the Dems yesterday because I’m tired of feeling frustrated. I thought I’d wait and read this site’s follow-up, because it helps me not get to a level where I’m going to do property damage (with gas prices it’s not a good idea) (I jest kindof).

    With the Obie Camp wanting to kiss (superficially) and make up because D’oh they need the votes of NonObians (who knew!) I can’t do that. With the 24/7 trash talk that has come down on NonObians, I feel that I would be rewarding the psychological abuse and bullying tactics that have become the norm.

    I have to ask, was Obie put up to be a Trojan Horse so the Democratic Party could self-destruct so that would grease the way for McCrazy to get in? Each past presidential election has had a different way of being stolen by the Republicans. Would the Clintons then be blamed and is this another method to push them (and many of us) away from the inner workings of the Party and ultimately weaken or even destroy the Democratic Party? I know it’s woowoo, but the only other explanation I have for the behaviors we’ve experienced for months would be insanity. I think back to when the Republicans orchestrated the recall of Grey Davis here in CA and plunked in idiot Arnie as governor, it was pure Rovian Republican politics unprecedented and unfortunately successful.

    My hope is HIllary hangs in there, because riverdaughter, you are right, there is no second chance for Hillary this is the time if it’s to happen. Why is it so hard for our culture, especially that of the Democratic Party to not be misogynic?

  97. I’m hurt by the distrust of Obama supporters. They seem to have this whole thing backwards, perhaps instead of polling stations they can set up confessionals where we can be interrogated to determine whether or not we’re worthy of supporting The Precious. Call it a frat blackballing ritual if it makes Obots more comfortable.

  98. Anything they try to do to get our votes will be viewed by so many as nothing more than empty rhetoric. The Obama campaign and the DNC has proven to us they don’t care one bit about the voters this year.

    I’m standing my ground. The Haka is between the voters and the DNC. I’m convinced they are pushing the SD’s toward Obama and that they are the ones who want this puppet in the WH. I need to know who they plan to put in charge of his strings.

    I will not vote for Obama, and unity before the convention will give the DNC and SD’s no incentive whatsoever to drop this fool from the top spot on their ticket in Nov.

  99. I have two words for any Democrat that votes for McCain, and it’s not “bite me” ..

  100. It hit me when I was showering, “I’m important”. Wow just two months ago, a Obmam supporter/blogger at the Kos called me a “tired old white woman”, another at the HuffPo said my culturally diverse family was not chosen by me, so, I could still be a racist; and yet another one said he was tired of hearing from aging hippies who didn’t get anything accomplished in the ’60’s and could not accept defeat.

    Now, I am important.

    Hmmm… think they shoulda thought of that a couple of months ago?

  101. I think I am gonna wear my Hillary pin everywhere between now and November, I might enjoy having someone pander to me.

  102. What I find most interesting is that the convention is being held on the 88th anniversary of women – finally – getting the right to vote, 50 years after a black man obtained the right to vote, thanks to Elizabeth Cady Stanton and the rest of those fabulous women who worked their butts off then, just to be told to wait their turn.
    >>>

    It is also intereesting because it is also the 45th anniversary of the “I have a dream” speech of August 1963.

    The great majority of AA men waited even longer depsite your hisorical correctness that AA men received suffrage much sooner.

    Black men got he right to vote in the 1860s but for some strange reason found themselves marching across a bridge in Selma in 1963 for voting rights while taking a beating or two as well. And this was even after the civil rights act already passed without voting rights stripped out.

    In my opinion it would unfortunate to pit AAs struggles against women rights struggles as a result of this primary campaign struggle. Arguably the former has helped enable the latter and ultimately vice versa in this country.

    The history of the abolotion movement and the women’s movement are certainly tied as you note. But Frederick Douglas was also at the inaugural (1848) women’s rights convention.

    “In respect to political rights, we hold woman to be justly entitled to all we claim for man. We go farther, and express our conviction that all political rights which it is expedient for man to exercise, it is equally so for women. All that distinguishes man as an intelligent and accountable being, is equally true of woman; and if that government is only just which governs by the free consent of the governed, there can be no reason in the world for denying to woman the exercise of the elective franchise, or a hand in making and administering the laws of the land. Our doctrine is, that “Right is of no sex.”

    -F. Douglas

    In 1866 Douglass, along with Elizabeth Cady Stanton and Susan B. Anthony, founded the American Equal Rights Association, an organization that demanded universal suffrage.

    Sadly this legacy in in more peril today than yesterday.

  103. Shpilk k, I’ll take that.

    “Good luck” to you, too.

  104. Step2’s post is a fine example of why Obama campaign is incapable of kissing our butts, even if they have to. They must always be right, and are therefore incapable of conceding any ground at all I mean, who responds well to an invitation like this: “Of course you are a totally despicable POS, without one legitimate argument in your favor, but please feel free to shut up and join us anytime.” Umm…no thanks.

  105. I just got my invitation and script for todays calls to SD. CHelsea will be on the conference call at 4:00.

  106. Tony: For some strange reason, you Obamaphiles have gotten the crazy thought in your head that this election season has become a teachable moment on race while failing to recognize that WE are not the ones who need that lesson. Republicans do.
    No, Tony, this election season was the Deomcrat’s only opportunity to put in a competent, intelligent, experienced person in the WH. It is not a civil rights opportunity. It is about saving the country from disaster.
    You guys have gotten completely side tracked. Rove must be laughing his ass off at your stupidity. If you wanted to defeat the Republicans, your only chance was to get Hillary the nomination. But you pretentious, overeducated fools decided that a conversation, no, a LECTURE, about race was more important.
    I can’t wait til you guys get what’s coming to you on Nov. 4. Enjoy your 15 minutes of fame. The country is going to hate you for what you are about to do.

  107. Exactly, RD, I heard this so loud and clear last August. We have so many more issues that are at stake right now.

  108. Sorry I’m late, and day-umn, what a party! THIS is why I come here. You give voice to my outrage. I am so tired of having other people tell me my whole life how I should look, think, and feel. I look, think, and feel as if I am finding my voice as thousands of others are, and they are rising in chorus! This:

    [blockquote]No, this has everything to do with the party power players taking direction from a small core while offending the people they need to actually win:[/blockquote]

    Does this remind of you something? It does me. The year 2000, in fact. It’s the Democratic mirror of George W. Bush’s campaign, and we all know how that turned out. I will NOT support authoritarianism on the left. That is not a left value.

    Finally,

    [blockquote]We are all too aware. That is why we DON’T want Obama. And Meteor Blades offensive little attacks on us are not going to get us to hand over our votes for him Get it through your head, MB, we are NOT voting for him unless he is Hillary’s VP. If that makes you mad, tough $%#^. If you are so desperate for a Democrat in the White House, you still have a choice. We are not culpable for your choices and we are under no obligation to indulge your irresponsible fantasy. We will not reward bad behavior and poor decision making.

    Our votes are not the property of the DNC or Meteor Blades. They are OURS. We give them to whomever we want. So, if you want our votes for a Democrat, I suggest you drop the “bite me” crap and start Kissing Our Asses.[/blockquote]

    Hear-effing-hear RD! Thank you.

  109. if that was for Toni and not Tony I’ll respond.

    I’m not making the case that it was a civil rights
    opportunity of lesson. Nor do I agree that AA men actually received suffrage in the 1860s because it diminishes the death of someone I know that died for it much later.

    The argument about reproductive rights I also find obtuse. I am so immune from the war in iraq or high oil prices, the need for universal healthcare, or reproductive rights as to not need to care about any of those. But I do and I hardly qualify as an Obamaphile.

    However if it was for Tony my apologies.

  110. Those who accuse us of spite for refusing to vote for the Obamination don’t get it at all! It’s not spite in the least, but rather the inability or refusal to vote, in good conscience, for someone we consider not merely inept but dangerous as the POTUS! Just two examples: (1) B.O.’s strongest reaction to “what if Iran nuked Israel”, recall, was to say “that would not be acceptable” (while Hill was prepared to threaten Iran’s obliteration), and with his Farrakhan buddies (he sees, even now, nothing very controversial about these pals of his, only left the church so that the church would not be hounded by critics while he ran for Prez), his remarks about Israel being an open sore causing others to “hate us” (or so he said), we can count on dangerous actions in many places in the world with him at the helm. (Read what’s being said in Jewish newsletters.) (2) We can count on increasingly common anti-white rants, having been emboldened by B.O. Just take a look at the rest of his committee on “AA spiritual leadership”—is it accidental that they tend to Wright-like behavior? Were they not already feeling emboldened (by the way B.O. got away with it) it is very unlikely we we would have seen Pfleger cavalierly ranting the other day. Michelle’s stated goal is to lavishly fund the AA academic programs that conveniently rewrite history (to credit blacks for an assortment of ancient and modern achievements, while demonizing whites). Calls like Pfleger’s for whites to relinquish all that they earned, allegedly due to white favoritist “entitlements” will be more than mere church rants—they will be proposed policies all over (in government, academia, etc.) ! An affirmative action president, after all, is entitled to an affirmative action nation (of the worst type—where it is truly reverse discrimination and an abandonment of standards and facts). An affirmative action nation is nothing less than an Obamination!!

  111. Why is everyone throwing around the word “haka”? I don’t think it means what you think it means, and it showing up in the middle of a US electoral spat is just flat-out bizarre. Leave the kiwis out of this.

  112. Interesting. I am certain that I will be wasting my time, but you do know that Obama opposed the Born Alive Protection Act when a version of it came before the IL Senate? This was so far to the left of “centrist” politics that it continues to be a rallying cry for the pro-life crowd. Not even NARAL opposed this bill, to give an example.

    Furthermore, I simply ask that you not use your rightful dissapointment as a reason for disowning the party who are mostly supportive of your issues and willing to fairly consider your side. This demand for perfection, or my way or the highway thinking, is the same ideological puritanism that we rightfully dislike in the GOP. If you think any GOP administration is going to enact universal health care or social security improvement, I would like to see the party platform which would indicate that. We already know that they will overturn Roe and start more wars, but I guess that isn’t important anymore.

  113. Backing up Step2:

    “Present” is an accepted tactic in Illinois, it has the same legislative effect as a “no” vote. He was asked (among others) to vote tactically to provide cover for Dems in vulnerable districts by Planned Parenthood, and Planned Parenthood has explained all of this a number of times.

  114. We need a drinking game for the talking points.

    Variation on “you’re a racist” –> one drink

    Variation on “you’re lower class/uneducated/carry your lunch to work” –> two drinks

    Variation on “you’re a useless old white woman” –> one drink but bonus drink if it also involves “you’re stuck in the 60s”… and then if it goes on to some asinine comparison between Obama and a political hero from the 60s, chug

    We are post-feminist and misogyny doesn’t exist — three drinks… if it manages to, mind-bogglingly, combine that with a threat about Roe v Wade, drink at will!

    Cheers!

    I agree, I owe these people nary a damn thing. If Obama needs my vote, then he should start outlining policies that attract my vote. He and his minions, however, might have to take a time-out from the Hillary Hate Strategy to do so. They’ve declared him king, and they *still* can’t let go of the Hillary Hate. You know, without his Hillary Hate, I’m not sure what’s left… snake oil, I suspect. I am not so sure his followers will take the the McCain Hate in quite the same way and with quite so much dedication and gusto.

    They want unity? I better see less threats about Roe v Wade and fewer tired accusations that anyone who doesn’t love the dear leader is a racist, and more details on a universal health care plan. The ball is in their court.

  115. shpilk — If you and your friends had used your words more advisedly in months past, you might not be reduced to pointless frothing against the wind today.

  116. Its not about Obama’s politics, its about his behavior. If you don’t trust someone, how can you vote for him? At least, McCain has honor.

  117. Six, out of four thousand votes, he pressed the wrong button. Four times the error was simple, and two times is was complicated and warranted further investigation.

    Two votes out of four thousand, both of which he quickly denounced. This, you use as a basis for whether or not he’s inexperienced and would get us into war?!

  118. I have to ask, was Obie put up to be a Trojan Horse so the Democratic Party could self-destruct so that would grease the way for McCrazy to get in? Each past presidential election has had a different way of being stolen by the Republicans.

    I would love to know what is really going on.

  119. WS! What about the Keating Five scandal!? I like McCain as an individual, and think he’s generally an honourable guy, but he’s got a platform. A gay-disenfranchising, warmongering, neocon platform.

    No matter how honourable the man standing on it, it’s hard to avoid the very plaform he stands on and claim it doesn’t affect him.

  120. Ella: Why are you whining to us about McCain? You have a choice. You can call all of the superdelegates you know and tell them to endorse the stronger candidate or you can live with the decisions YOU made.
    We are not voting for Obama. Got that? You will not persuade one person here to change her/his mind. Some of them will vote for McCain, some will write in Hillary’s name. But Obama is a soon-to-be failed presidential candidate and the Democrat’s 3rd straight loss.
    You are nominating a failure. Your party is not the same one I belonged to all of my life. It is a pale imitation and if it goes down with it’s failed candidate, so be it.

  121. Step 2 said: Furthermore, I simply ask that you not use your rightful dissapointment as a reason for disowning the party who are mostly supportive of your issues and willing to fairly consider your side.

    Mostly supportive and willing to fairly consider your side. Just like Obama was so graciously willing to split the votes in Michigan – how effing condescending. Take Ella and go to the Orange Satan’s place – you’ll be more at home there.

  122. “The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves”

    That’s exactly what happened yesterday. The goal was to thoroughly humiliate Hillary Clinton and us, her supporters.

    On MI, giving Obama ALL uncommitted votes was stomach churning enough, but taking votes away from Hillary was just to stick it to us.
    Keep in mind, it wouldn’t have made a big difference in the overall number of delegates.

  123. I did read the article, Charles. It’s theorised that he used it as an excuse on the gambling issue because he was showing uncertainty leading up to the vote; the child welfare bill is less clear, especially when he then speaks up against the bill he supposedly just voted for.

    And plenty of people have had that problem, according to the article: “Correcting the record is common practice in the Illinois Legislature, where lawmakers routinely cast numerous votes in a hurry”

  124. Two words, Ella, Hanoi Hilton.

  125. BTW, McCain has a very powerful bio that will get him a lot of votes especially when compared to Obama should he be the nominee.

  126. thanks, riverdaughter, brilliantly put!

  127. Six, out of four thousand votes, he pressed the wrong button. Four times the error was simple, and two times is was complicated and warranted further investigation.

    You know, the real problem here is that Obama does not take responsibility. And nowhere is that more obvious than his failure to own what he says and what he stands for.

    That’s a real problem. It’s a big problem. It’s a deal killer. And it’s only one of so many deal killers.

  128. The Obama vocal activitists (young men) are working hard to alienate older (than 30) women in several ways:
    1. It is our fault if Obama loses.
    2. Older women only care about Roe v. Wade. We are single issue voters with no other issues that impact our lives.
    3. Older women are not necessary to win. Enough other voters are clamouring to take our place.

    There was an article I found (surfing wave to wave) that suggested that the alienation of women may finally be catalist for a real third party in America.

  129. Oh I almost forgot, shouldn’t we base our support on personality not policy? I think thats Obama’s campaign strategy.

  130. RiverDaughter, I’m not trying to sway you over to Obama’s side. I respond here when I see something stated that I know is not factually true, or something that’s been distorted beyond recognition. Who does it help when total distortions get pulled up and passed around as fact?

    If people want to vote for McCain, that’s absolutely up to them. I personally have difficulty divorcing the man from his platform.

    I believe in my candidate, but I know that you don’t. I respect your vote and your ability to cast it for whoever you choose, and will not try to dissuade you. But I don’t think that discussion should be automatically interpreted as an attempt at forced conversion — I seriously don’t want to convert you. I just want to debunk some of the weirder rumours.

  131. McCain is very clever at letting the press know about his biography.. without looking like he’s trying to call attention to it. Interesting contrast with Obama talking about his biography absolutely every chance he gets.

  132. Ella: I don’t care what he did as a state senator in Illinois. I don’t want him as my president because he can not hold a candle to Clinton in any policy area. She has never pissed off a voting bloc. She has been professional, knowledgeable and classy throughout. He’s been a disrespectful jerk.

    We don’t want to hear any excuses about his voting record. We’re tired of having to watch other people do his heavy lifting. We are repulsed by his delegate snatching. We are washing our hands of him.

    If he is your party’s nominee, you will have to earn votes the old-fashioned way – by pandering to voters. I’m sure that when he starts to do this, you aren’t going to like it. Not that it matters because it will be too late. Nominate him at your peril. Do not ask us, the ones who were offended, to come to your rescue. This is completely on YOUR head. We warned you and you chose not to listen. Now you must live with the consequences.

  133. Ella — We’re perfectly aware that McCain would be a horrible President. Our US Marines will find it even harder to get the abortions they deserve after being raped by military contractors. We get that. Seriously.

    Obama v McCain? McCain.

    You don’t want President McCain? Get busy lobbying superdelegates (and pledged delegates) to switch to Clinton.

    Or is that not worth giving up the goosebumps you’ll get from Obama’s concession speech in November?

  134. jacilyn, in the instance Charles is referring to, Obama did register the erroneous votes on the record. So while the theory is still out there that he flubbed his vote for political purposes, it’s also true that he put himself on the record as having made the errors.

    WS: I’ve read all about McCain’s experiences in the Hanoi Hilton. He’s an exceptionally brave man… who as a politician also voted against a bill banning US torture. It’s a political somersault I can’t quite wrap my head around.

  135. Ella:

    Isn’t there always some excuse people have to come up with to explain Obama’s cowardice?

  136. Ella: You have some fucking nerve coming onto this site to complain about distortions of your candidate after his campaign has gone out of its way to:
    1.) Label both Clintons as racists
    2.) Distribute Harry and Louise type ads regarding her healthcare initiatives
    3.) Mistwist her statements about lengthy primary seasons into some kind of death wish for Obama.

    That’s just the tip of the iceberg. She’s been called a lying and deceitful. Dishonest. Willing to do anything to win. Friend of lobbyists and corporate interests. The same corporate interests trying to sideline her, no doubt.

    So, now you’re all mad because someone is misrepresenting his record? Ella, you ain’t seen nothing yet. He is going to look like roadkill when Rove is finished with him.

    Do not expect us to lift a finger to help him. It’s YOUR party, YOUR nominee, YOUR show. Good luck. You’ll need it.

  137. I’ve loved reading everything, well excepting Ella and Step two or whoever they are, but after yesterday I’m still so outraged and angry that I need to chill. And so I’m gonna go watch “Steel Magnolias” on TNT this afternoon and come back calmer and ready to step back into the fight. And I repeat, for the zillionth time, I am not, will not, cannot vote for Obama. Neither my conscience or my integrity would allow me to do so.

  138. Riverdaughter, I’ll gladly take the blame for whatever happens with Obama. We have very, very different views of candidate behaviour. I’m not going to ask for a rescue.

    But I am totally confused by the segment of the population who claim to be attracted to Clinton for her policies, but then threaten to go out and vote for McCain — whose policies are totally the other side of the coin. I get that part of it’s a visceral hate for Obama, in which case I understand staying home, but to end up with President McCain? And how is it possible to then spin around and tell Obama voters “this is all YOUR fault! You made me do that!”?

    How does that work?

  139. It’s funny — I was having a conversation about all this with a friend over email today, and he brought up something I had forgotten: John Kerry, an Obama ally, flirted with the idea of John McCain as a VP candidate on the Democratic ticket in 2004. There’s debate now as to where the idea originally came from and how far it went, but I had forgotten about that drama until today. I bring this up not as an argument for or against McCain, but as a mere observation on how very odd the political world is:

    http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C00E0D81230F931A25755C0A9629C8B63&scp=135&sq=kerry+mccain+2004&st=nyt

  140. Riverdaughter, I can’t respond to your list of actions of the Obama campaign against Clinton because any response would not be welcome on this site. Sorry.

    I’m not trying to convert you. Seriously. But doesn’t it bother you that some of the stuff you bandy about on this site is flat-out wrong, or so unnuanced that it loses all meaning? I know you hate him, I know people enjoy ragging on people they dislike even when they know what they’re saying is a distortion.

    Don’t help him. He’s got all the help he needs. But what you’re doing by spreading these distortions is actively harming him, and downright Rovian.

  141. Meteor Blades, ironically, is probably the one kossite who had sufficient stature to influence the orange hordes if he’d only stood up against the jihad when it counted.

  142. Ella,

    Slowly and for the last time.

    1. We have no trust in Obama. He will – and has – thrown his own mother/grandmother under the bus for a vote. The same has happened with his church. Therefore I don’t care about his so-called policy positions.

    2. He has done nothing of substance his entire life. Despite that he has been advanced rapidly. Therefore he will not likely work in the job.

    3. I always expect to disagree with my president. I’m too the left of most Americans. Therefore, I may refuse to vote for McCain but I won’t weep if he defeats Obama.

    Then I will go back and clean house at my former place (the democratic party) and remove him in 2012. If that means I do it without the folks at Daily Kos, so much the better.

  143. River,

    So right about Meteor Blades. But damn, when power is so c lose in your hands it’s hard to give up.

    In some defense of him, he must have buried his head about Obama. To make Barrack Obama the crowning achievement of the Civil Rights movement is a sick and sorry joke.

  144. Darn, my post disappeared, let me try again:

    I was emailing with a friend this morning and he brought up something I had forgotten — there was much talk of John Kerry reaching out to McCain as VP on a Dem ticket in 2004:

    http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C00E0D81230F931A25755C0A9629C8B63&scp=135&sq=kerry+mccain+2004&st=nyt

    There’s debate now as to how that came about — with both parties exercising a certain measure of the plausible denial mentioned in the NYT article — but I bring it up merely as an interesting observation of the political world.

    As others have said to the Obama fans, it’s your party now. You broke it, you bought it. You want this independent’s vote? I can’t afford decent health insurance. Work on that and get back to me.

  145. Sorry — that was for Ronk

  146. Ella: Let me speak slowly so you will get the whole concept. this year, the party was taken over by a persuasive, vocal group who do not share Democratic core values like social justice and shared responsibility. This party is more interested in engineering some profound philosophical and demographic shift in the party. This has meant that some members of the party are no longer welcome as leaders nor is their input required. That makes the party somewhat useless to the so-called “old coalition”. Now, that “old coalition” has nowhere to go and they are righteously indignant and want their party back. But the only way to get it back is to purge the infection of Brazilians and Deaniacs who have taken the reins of power from the people who used to call the party home. And the only way to purge the infection is to make sure that Obama loses in the fall. So, for some party loyalists, it is not enough to sit this election out. There is always the possibility of a miraculous Hail Mary pass where John McCain will be shown to be a cross dressing satanist who spits on Army privates in battle and has a preacher who is even nuttier than Reverend Wright. If that happens and Obama starts to look good in comparison, it will be necessary to vote for McCain to make sure Obama loses and the party undergoes a purging procedure. The loyalists may vote for downticket Dems in order to prevent McCain from doing any harm in those 4 years.

    So, if I were you and I didn’t want to see this scenario come to fruition, I would get on the phone toot sweet and tell the SDs to change their minds before it is too late.

  147. Darn, my browser ate my post, let me try again:

    I was emailing with a friend this morning and he brought up something I had forgotten — there was much talk of John Kerry reaching out to McCain as VP on a Dem ticket in 2004:

    http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C00E0D81230F931A25755C0A9629C8B63&scp=135&sq=kerry+mccain+2004&st=nyt

    There’s debate now as to how that came about — with both parties exercising a certain measure of the plausible denial mentioned in the NYT article — but I bring it up merely as an interesting observation on the political world.

    As others have said to the Obama fans, it’s your party now. You broke it, you bought it. You want this independent’s vote? I can’t afford decent health insurance. Work on that and get back to me.

  148. Ella — There are some distorted renditions here, but your talking points are as distorted as anything. Obama — apart the the prospect that he will lose to McCain — is not a reliable liberal on reproductive choice (or nay other issue). He is intrigued by lawyerly arguments of the kind Scalia used to twist the Court around his little finger, and he believes he can find middle ground that will satisfy both side. (And that middle ground is apparently something other than Clinton’s “safe, legal and rare”.)

    Since Roe, the battle is waged on that “middle ground”, and it’s where the practical right to reproductive choice is being lost incrementally.

    You’ve got no case … just a candidate whose specializes in dog whistling out of both sides of his mouth.

  149. Ella: I don’t hate Obama. He’s a fucking lightweight jerk of a lying politician. There’s no THERE there for me to hate. I simply will not vote for him as long as I have another option.

    It’s YOU that I can’t stand and all of the rest of you clueless Obama zombies. My efforts all along have been directed at you.

    Savvy?

    We are coming after YOU in November.

  150. Ella: At least one of the Keating 5 works on the Obama campaign, so apparently the org isn’t so evil….unless Obama the opportunist throws this person under the bus.

  151. I wonder if Meteor Blades will give up his trust fund as Pfleger(sp) suggested.

  152. [Inappropriate personal slur elided — RonK]

  153. Hmm? My earlier comment in this thread disappeared.

  154. Good web site for we “Bad Democrats”

    http://dontbeagooddemocrat.com/000001.html

  155. Riverdaughter,

    Did you stop to consider why the old coalition lost its hold over the party? Why someone virtually unknown on the national stage was able to build a political machine outside the traditional alliances? Because I guarantee that it was for a valid reason, even if you don’t care to accept that.

    More importantly, what if Obama does what the Clintons have been angling for these last few weeks and puts her on the ticket as VP? Will you turn your back on both of them?

  156. Ella: Funny thing about under 40’s. Sooner or later, they get old.

  157. Step2: If Clinton had some Weapons of Mass Destruction that turned off the party, they had a responsibility to produce it.
    Actually, I saw EXACTLY how Obama did it and I disapprove heartily.

  158. Ronk,
    “Meteor Blades, ironically, is probably the one kossite who had sufficient stature to influence the orange hordes if he’d only stood up against the jihad when it counted”

    you are right, (are you another cheatopia refugee?)

  159. Man, you GO, Riverdaughter. You just spoke for me in spades. Nothing to add.

  160. I see Conflucians all across the Internets celebrating Hillary’s big win in PR.
    However, there is a caveat. A poll released a couple of days ago showed Hillary winning by just 13, and you Hillaryite noe which metric is used by the DNC these days.

    I don’t want to scare you but keep that in mind.

  161. Noooooooo, the RBC is coming!!!

  162. Ella: We have very, very different views of candidate behaviour.

    Good grief. Is the Obama campaign outsourcing its sweeties? Are you in India?

  163. I certainly recall writing more than one comment back at the orange place imploring MB to speak out against the viciousness, I saw him quietly uprating some comments that asked people to tone it down. He had a platform and a voice that would carry a lot of weight there, and chose not to use it. Same for Kid Oakland.

  164. dotcommodity — I’m a former dkos Front Pager, a former associate of Meteor Blades at the Next Hurrah group blog, and a former “Star Poster” at Slate’s The Fray (where MB also posted years ago, if memory serves, along with Glenn “Instapundit” Reynolds and other bright lights of the pre-blogosphere).

  165. step2 – You are in no position to guarantee anything.

    The Obama phenomenon is garden-variety madness of crowds, and it will pass. Hope it leaves us with nothing more serious than tulip-glut.

    Disparagement of the Clintons is a predictable expression of the party’s deep-rooted self-destructive instincts, played out again and again for decade upon decade.

  166. I really believe the media Hillaryhate is corporate. She would bring about massive legislative change in clean energy policy. There are vested interests against that change.

    So they run a puppet, like they ran GWB.

    Obamas debate response that he wouldn’t bother his lordly head with policy: he’d have people for that papershuffling. That was a dogwhistle call to his Cheney.

    In March 2007, Obama cosponsored McCain-Lieberman, the nuke power giveaway bill.
    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/3/13/223633/042/673/311540
    In April, the CEO of Exelon gave him his campaign startup money.

    http://current.com/items/88832486_obama_s_nuclear_family

    **Since 2003, executives and employees of Exelon, which is based in Illinois, have contributed at least $227,000 to Mr. Obama’s campaigns for the United States Senate and for president. Two top Exelon officials, Frank M. Clark, executive vice president, and John W. Rogers Jr., a director, are among his largest fund-raisers.

    Another Obama donor, John W. Rowe, chairman of Exelon, is also chairman of the Nuclear Energy Institute, the nuclear power industry’s lobbying group, based in Washington. Exelon’s support for Mr. Obama far exceeds its support for any other presidential candidate.**

    http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/04/22/681/

    Partners from the Atlanta-based law firm Alston & Bird donated $33,000 to Obama in the first 90 days of 2007.

    Alston & Bird has a large lobbying division in Washington. It billed its clients nearly $3.9 million in 2006, ranking 35th among Washington lobbyists. Alston boasts on its website that it offers clients “unique experience with how policy is made” and knows “the people who make it: government and agency officials; members of Congress and their staff.”

    Daschle joined Bob Dole (R) at Alston & Bird in 2003, and both now are Obama advisors through The Bipartisan Policy Center.

    …Obama’s biggest single source of corporate money – $160,000 – came from executives at Exelon Corp., the nation’s largest nuclear power provider, and its subsidiary, Commonwealth Edison, an Illinois utility.

    the CEO of Exelon is on the advisory board of The Bipartisan Policy Center

    Exelon spent $500,000 to influence policy in Washington last year.

  167. “Women always follow the rules.”

    Historically, that’s not really true. Perhaps he was passive-aggressively trying hide his impulse to order women to always do as they’re told. I think so. I think it one of the most ignorant remarks made by a sexist in many a moon.

    So, if women followed the rules, we wouldn’t have the vote. Abortion would never have been decriminalized. Senator Clinton would still be home not in the senate. Sojourner Truth would never have walked to freedom. Tiny Mulder would never have rescued Allied airmen shot down in the northern Netherlands.

    Princess Inayat Khan, first
    woman agent to be parachuted into France, working for the British as an undercover agent with the French Resistance for over a year evading the Gestapo and sending vital information to the British
    Military Intelligence for D-Day landings. She was betrayed and captured by the
    Germans. She was executed in 1944 at Dachau.

    Benazir Bhutto didn’t follow the rules.

    Jochebed.

    Tahmeena Faryal.

    Lucretia Mott.

    It’s a long and gloriously inspiring list, I leave you to finish it…

  168. “Women always follow the rules.”

    Historically, that’s not really true. Perhaps he was passive-aggressively trying hide his impulse to order women to always do as they’re told. I think so. I think it one of the most ignorant remarks made by a sexist in many a moon.

    So, if women followed the rules, we wouldn’t have the vote. Abortion would never have been decriminalized. Senator Clinton would still be home not in the senate. Sojourner Truth would never have walked to freedom. Tiny Mulder would never have rescued Allied airmen shot down in the northern Netherlands.

    Princess Inayat Khan, first
    woman agent to be parachuted into France, working for the British as an undercover agent with the French Resistance for over a year evading the Gestapo and sending vital information to the British
    Military Intelligence for D-Day landings. She was betrayed and captured by the
    Germans. She was executed in 1944 at Dachau.

    Benazir Bhutto didn’t follow the rules.

    Jochebed.

    Tahmeena Faryal.

    Lucretia Mott.

    It’s a long and gloriously inspiring list, I leave you to finish it…

    [if this double posted, my apologies.]

  169. “It’s YOU that I can’t stand and all of the rest of you clueless Obama zombies. My efforts all along have been directed at you.

    “Savvy?

    “We are coming after YOU in November.”

    OOO, I so scared. This sort of thing is just stupid. If you really believe this, I’m with M.B. – Bite me.

  170. Riverdaughter if you do “bite” any of these unpleasant people, please make sure you have all your shots first. Never know what you might catch from people that come to another persons house and pee on the floor. Probably not real up with the hygiene and all that.

    Along with the hygiene thingy perhaps they should take a course about persuading people. Back in my day, you know the Middle-Ages where all us old white women spent our misspent youth, there was a course called “How To Win Friends & Influence People”. Seems as if the Obamacrats could use it. If we could find the papyrus it was written on.

  171. It amazes me how dedicated some (i.e., Ella) are to arguing a point despite the very obvious time they are wasting.

    Ever since I saw the Gaza for Obama video on YouTube showing the internet cafe efforts being made from overseas to convince Hillary supporters to change their alliance, I’ve wondered how many of the Ella’s on the boards aren’t even Americans. How many think the way to change an American’s mind is to put them down and hollar at them?

    Then, I watch the crowd gatherings and I hear the booing that Obama pauses for when the Clinton’s are mentioned.

    The party, the DNC is backing this disrespectful, incapable, and lazy person for the office of president. He hasn’t stayed at a job for 4 years before he gets bored and wants some “mentor, advisor, friend” to plant him in his next ambition. I don’t want to hear him preaching to this country past August in that sermonesque, short phrase, odd inflections that only a preacher uses, and Uh-filled commentaries that goes on and on and on, but never actually says anything.

    Empty suit is a perfect description.

    I will vote for McCain, and work hard to try to increase the majority of democrats in the House and Senate. He can’t get anything accomplished if he can’t get it through congress.

  172. Did you stop to consider why the old coalition lost its hold over the party? Why someone virtually unknown on the national stage was able to build a political machine outside the traditional alliances? Because I guarantee that it was for a valid reason, even if you don’t care to accept that.

    Um Obama’s rise is about someone propping him up?

    Just guessing here. I don’t see how a guy with so little real experience just ends up a serious contender for the highest political office in the world without, you know, Exelon? Goldman Sachs? Fiscal conservatives who can tell that the Republican brand name is damaged goods, and therefore arrange a little hijacking action?

    As for why the old coalition lost power – well, it’s related to why the Dems keep losing election after election after election. The only (D) who won President in my political voting lifetime is treated as a world-class villain by the party that seems to crave ideological purity or personal salvation or something and doesn’t like actually winning elections.

    So it’s a feedback loop. The Dems have not been delivering the goods, or even treating their base with respect. Increasingly, Republicans are moving in and taking over these groups – working class and Hispanic voters wouldn’t be voting for Republicans if Democrats weren’t so astonishingly indifferent to their needs.

    But instead of figuring out what they are doing wrong, instead they just blame and demonize the groups that don’t vote the way they’re told.

    Which is coming to a head right now.

  173. “Did you stop to consider why the old coalition lost its hold over the party? Why someone virtually unknown on the national stage was able to build a political machine outside the traditional alliances? Because I guarantee that it was for a valid reason, even if you don’t care to accept that.”

    Ooh, ooh! Pick me! Is it complete disregard for the democratic process, disregard for the popular vote, disregard for the preferences of Democrats, contempt for the majority of the population, willingness to game the system, gross and blatant misogyny, and a touching faith among the Cheeto smeared set that a guy with no experience, little apparent competence, no viable electoral coalition, fewer votes than his opponent (and an awful lot of his coming from Republicans who, despite our cultural affinity for them over the toothless, aging unhot wrecks we’re normally saddled with since they shop at WF and all, are not voting Democratic in Nov and never were), and a talent for gratuitously alienating every voter in the country can win because creepy bloggers and the 7 year old sons of superdelegates think he’s OMG, so cool, because it’s our year, we can’t lose even with a ficus plant and besides {shudder} she’s a girl?

  174. “Women always follow the rules”.

    Doesn’t this moron know that women initiate most of the divorces in this country? Because as far as I’m concerned, that’s what this is – a divorce. I have left the Democratic Party. I have filed the appropriate papers to make it official. And I am completely uninterested in a last fuck for old times sake.

  175. Why does Meteor Blades hate Democrats in 2012?

  176. I don’t vote for race-baiters and won’t be voting for Obama!
    The DNC has been silent while Obama has manufactured racist accusations against the Clintons WHILE Obama was attending a race-baiting hatemongering church spewing vitriol toward the Clintons.
    There is no doubt where Obama learned his “new politics.”

    Not another dime to the Dem Party! and have already changed party registration to “no party.”
    It’s quite liberating!

  177. I intend to stay in the party, because it is my party although it is currently infested with undemocratic vote-rigging assholes.

    I’ll vote downticket Dems — particularly if they are not BO supporters. But I plan to vote for McCain for president; and not just vote but donate and campaign for him. It will suck at some deep level because I am a lifelong yellow dog Dem, but it will feel much better than voting for a vote-stealing empty-suit racist with a D next to his name.

    There is no going back for me, I don’t care how much ass-kissing or pandering they do, I don’t care if BO gets down on his knees and kisses Hillary’s feet and grovels in an apology, I don’t care if Bill Clinton takes me out to dinner and plies me with wine and has his way with me in the presidential suite of the Occidental Hotel, I don’t care what they do…I am not voting BO, not now not EVER.

    They lost me, one of the most ardent Dems around, one of their most loyal and committed supporters. And I know I’m not alone. So to the Obamabites I say, “Win without us.”

  178. I would vote for a cockroach before I would vote for Barack Obama, so kissing my ass isn’t even necessary for the orange boys. I wouldn’t spit on any of them if they were on fire.

  179. I’ve been hearing a lot of that — “if you don’t vote for Obama, don’t EVER expect ME to vote for YOUR candidate, or YOUR cause, ever-ever-ever-EVER!” I’ve even seen Obamanauts make not-so-veiled threats to vote in FAVOR of California’s anti-gay marriage amendment just to spite the gay folks who have genuine, serious issues with Obama’s incurable homophobia.

    And this is the New and Improved Party of Unity and Change, which has the “audacity” to lecture us about “principles”?

    Just once, I’d like to see them live up to the platitudes to which they pay so much meaningless lip service.

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