She’s not going to get over it.
You still have a choice.
Do the right thing.
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The Confluence 
Meet Deborah Foster
That’s Harriet!
I spent the evening with her last night. She’s a great lady. Tough, fearless, funny, kind.
Way to go Harriet!
Go Harriet!!!
Putting it here too. Go read Anglachel’s latest:
http://anglachelg.blogspot.com/
What more could Obama do to prove himself unelectable? What more Clinton could do to prove herself the nominee who would destroy McCain?
They don’t give a damn about winning in November.
Any Clinton event should now have four people properly marked/dressed as being our hijacked delegates…
This feels like Florida 2000 all over again, only now it’s my party that’s screwing us.
I’ll never accept this. Never.
Boy has Howard Dean ever made a mess of my former party.
I LOVE THAT WOMAN!!!! SHE SPEAKS FOR MY MOTHER AND ALL OLDER WOMEN WHO HAVE BEEN PUSHED A SIDE BECAUSE THEY AREN’T THE RIGHT DEMOGRAPHIC.
I just sent a blazing email to the DNC.
http://www.democrats.org/page/s/contact
Washington,Adams and Jefferson must be spinning in their graves right now. Giving votes to some one not even on the ballot… Democracy??
This one is for Katiebird and her optimism: (and maybe the alleged Michelle tape).
The lady in that video is AWESOME! I really wonder if Dean realizes what’s brewing here. Jeez – the Democrats are gonna lose again.
Deborah Foster, who is on the video I posted actually got bruised at the ejection.
They’ve just turned Hillary into a martyr for so many of us out here. She fought against an incredible wave of hatred and lies day after day and just kept fighting. “I’m impervious” to their insults, she said. The injustice and misogyny has been brought out into bright light. It is ugly and we see how much hatred lives within our own party. Our side is just as nasty and vile as the Republicans can be. I am very angry but have a quiet calm as well. I know what a dirty man Obama is and the digusting behavior he inspires. I will not support a candidate and a party that encourages what has been done to HIllary and her supporters. To be silent is to condone it. I won’t.
MABlue: I saw those wicked bruises. In my house, we call them Schmetterlings (long story).
Very impressive Schmetterlings. She should consider them badges of honor.
And all President Carter cares about are the feelings of young people and African Americans if Obama isn’t the nominee.
Note to the DNC and superdelegates like President Carter: All voting groups are important not just certain segments.
President Carter said that in a Hardball interview.
sarah: It is my working hypothesis that Pelosu, Brazile and Dean are secretly working for Hillary. They just make her look good afetr each one of these stupid fiascos.
Well, Jimmy Carter can celebrate the young people and African Americans getting their way while John McCain celebrates his inauguration day. I hope that makes Jimmy very happy. He’s used to losing anyway.
Isn’t it funny and sad how we are conditoned to see any angry woman as “crazy?” Well, no more.
From now on any woman with an intact brain stem is up in arms. Denver!!!!
I stopped by Fire Dog Lake — the comments on this video were pretty dismissive. They were insulting to both Harriet (?) and Hillary (for busing supporters into the meeting). I wish those Fire Dog Lake people would share their knowledge about why The Precious is so special. Instead they hang onto their knowledge like it’s a secret power.
Ben, thanks for sharing that video — it IS how I feel!
In other news, Anglachel says (in a comment) that she thinks the tape Larry (No Quarter) has might be doctored……
I just wrote my congresswoman who is a declared superdelegate for Hillary and thanked her for being a true leader. I also mentioned my disgust at what happened to our neighboring state of Michigan.
It thought both of those women looked eminently sane. Of course I’m an angry older woman, so what do I know? I have to believe there are a lot of us out there though, and I’ll bet we outnumber the young people and AA’s that the Jimmy Carter is so *concerned* about. I have no idea what Howard Dean is thinking. Maybe he’s trying to get revenge on the people who rejected him by taking the party down.
I can’t believe the Democratic Party is in the business of beating up people who don’t agree with the decision made by the bosses.
that’s a bummer, Katie. I guess we will find out sunday morning when he says he’s going to post it.
Katiebird,
I have no idea if there is a video, but how would anyone know that it is “doctored” when we don’t even know if it exists? That said, I don’t think the Republicans need anything more on Obama than is already out there. I was warning people at DK months ago that Wright would be a problem, but I never imagined it would be this bad. Before this is over Obama is going to be unelectable to any office. And no mystery video is needed for that to happen.
HARRIETT CHRISTIAN, I’m with you all the way.
Riverdaughter, I think that that is what August will look like.
November is going to be a huge party!
Remember, remember the 5th of November!
HERE’S A PARLOR GAME:
Which traditionally blue state will be the first to go to McCain on election night?
MY ANSWER: RHODE ISLAND
BB & Ben,– I don’t think she’s claiming to know anything definite, just that there’s already been one doctored tape story so until we see it we shouldn’t make judgments.
She’s not really interested in it in any case.
Me? I’m interested in it. This is the weirdest election season ever. And part of it is the bizarre behavior of Obama’s friends. And that he doesn’t seem to think it’s weird at all.
Harriet speaks for a lot of us.
I attended a women’s leadership event today in which I listened to a panel of women answer questions–one was a Clinton delegate, one an Obama supporter, and one a McCain supporter (perhaps a delegate). I was shopping for a new candidate if what calls itself the Democratic Party (the DNC) passes over the best candidate in my lifetime for the worst I’ve ever seen presented. The Clinton delegate (and another in the audience) were exceptional. The Obama delegate basically said “ditto” and urged this all women to look to Michelle Obama as the incredibly woman who influences Obama which tells us all we need to know about how his presidency will address woman’s issues. The McCain voice was the second most appealing. McCain has an inner circle of powerful women.
If McCain picks Carly Fiorina as VP, lots of women who have been thrown under the bus by Nancy P. et al. will follow. Carly is one of the most high-profile women in business. McCain relies on Carly and Meg Whitman of eBay and three men as his inner circle.
A politically savvy woman who is voting McCain if Hillary is not it, says that there might be a positive resolution. The Republican Party will transform as a result of McCain and Carly and blacks will feel positive about having a presidential candidate even though McCain wins.
She wants Bill and Hillary to form a third party. We decided that the name of it should be “The Progressive Party.”
Wasn’t there a time that progressive people believed in one man one vote? Isn’t that sentiment one of the cornerstones of the civil rights movement? If you live in Florida and you voted for Hillary, your vote is only worth half as much as anyone elses. I guess the Democratic Party of 2008 belienves in one man one vote only if the candidate in question happens to be a man. If she’s a woman, half a vote is all she’s entitled to. Hell, the average woman only earns 80 percent of what the average man earns. Now her vote only counts for half a man’s vote. Democrats are worse than republicans. It’s time to vote with our feet. When we do, that vote will count for 100 percent!
Oh, and BostonBoomer, I agree that Obama is already unelectable based on what’s known. His lack of Job Experience is almost enough.
Here’s the Carter quote from his 4/30 interview.
MATTHEWS: … may not come back and back Barack with all they have?
“CARTER: I‘m not afraid of that. I don‘t think that will happen at all.
I think Hillary and Bill are two strong Democrats and committed to our party. I think Obama is the same way. So, my judgment is what I have already said, that after the primaries are over and we see who the clear leader is, then the superdelegates will probably go along with that, unless it‘s an extreme case, and—and the loser will endorse, and—and their supporters will support the winner.
I think there may be one exception to that. And that is a lot of the young people, and maybe the African-American people, that have come in for the first time to participate enthusiastically in a campaign may not be enthusiastic if their candidate loses. But that would be the only exception. And that‘s a minor percentage of the total votes.”
Really, Carter. Thats the only exception?
Who wouldn’t want to see that tape if it exists? But one could be right in that for democrats it won’t matter. Do they realize they havent gotten rid of the Clintons. Obama will “lead” (throwing up in my mouth) the party for five months. When the big loss comes who will be left standing Bill, Hillary, and Chelsea. She will be more powerful than ever.
Charles, this one No Quarter
The woman said what I have been thinking.
YOU SAID IT, HARRIET!
They are talking about the video that Larry Johnson has been hyping.
Ben, I hope Lou Dobbs has the tape. He hasn’t been on his show the past few days.
Wonder if he’s in on something?? GOD I HOPE SO!!!
Rise, Hillary, Rise!
How would you be able to doctor that type of video if it does exist? The mouth would have to sync up and it would look super fake if its altered in any way.
Actually, I believe THEY want to purge us from the party. THEY want the “racists,” “the uneducated’ and the “uncool older women” out of the party. and you can throw the ‘gays’ in there, too, for good measure. although, if you are young and cool and gay you can stay. Now they have intellectual and racial purity. This is what they’ve wanted for a long time.
WS, it does seem like doctoring more than just a moment or two would be almost impossible. The doctored documentary clip was just a word, wasn’t it?
Larry Johnson says that there is a video that is a recording of Michelle Obama criticizing “whitey” (her terms used in the alleged video).
Larry says that there is a Republican cabal controlling the tape for an October surprise if Obama is the nominee. Also, there is a Republican billionaire who is paying 1 million dollars to anyone who has footage of Michelle Obama’s speech at Trinity Church.
lets just see if it exists. one person for certain knows: Michelle. Has she told her husband yet? He will have to claim that he had no idea she thought that way.
FL was bad enough, but do you guys really realize the ridiculousness of what happened in MI where BO was given 59 delegates?
Obama got all 30,000 write in ballots, although nobody opened them.
Obama got awarded ALL the votes intended for anyone who is not Hillary Clinton, never mind that Kucinich and Gravel actually got some votes
Because that wasn’t enough, additional votes was taken away from Hillary because some people voted for her but really didn’t mean it
Wow!
What video was doctored? I don’t think Larry Johnson would put a doctored video out. He’s former CIA. I think he would know if a video had been doctored. Further, it will ruin Obama if there really is a video of his wife ranting about “whitey”.
MABlue, my dad (88 years old) called and ranted for an hour — he’s furious. I cheered him up a little by relating the story of my conversation with the DNC fundraiser. But, he’s feeling totally betrayed by the party.
THE PARTY HAS NOW BEEN CLEANSED.
Melanie, I don’t think anyone’s seen it. It’s all speculation at this point.
Forget about the Michelle video (if it even exists). Obviously most supers are hellbent on committing political suicide so I’m sure any further inflammatory rhetoric from that church would only encourage them.
Someone here said to be silent is to be complicit. True. That’s why I don’t think just sitting this one out will be enough. Call, write, and vote against Obama and his supporters.
Those two ladies hit the nail on the head. They are seeing through this as we are seeing through this. I love it. “Those idiot bosses have given me two Presidents in 40 years”. Outstanding!
I’m not the sarah I who posted earlier.
However, I post here all the time.
I’m another Harriet – a Clinton supporter who is P O ed. I too am not going to take it anymore, and I will I’m not voting for Obama.
I say GD the Democratic Party too. The best candidate may well sit home this November, as I will. Well, I may vote for McCain I live in PA, a swing state, and I believe Obama must be stopped.
I registered Independent last week, and I say go to hell Pelosi, Dean, Brazile etc Screw you all at the DNC.
Davidson, I think you’re right. I’m already composing a letter to Superdelegates.
Yeah, the doctored War Room clip had garbled words from Kantor and a doctored subtitle.
Well, if it does exist, that video should come out now.
HARRIET brings a smile to my face.
I don’t care about the existence/non-existence of this video — I already know that BO is bad news, with or w/o some video.
The new talking points from the BO campaign and surrogates is that it’s up to HRC to “unite” the party or else it’s her fault (or the fault of her supporters). What this reminds me of is an abusive relationship — one that I don’t want to be in. Next week I drop my D-registration, and this is despite my living in an area where all local and state-level races are decided during the primary.
The War Room tape came from Obama people. Larry Johnson wouldn’t post a doctored tape, not that he has yet…of course.
Davidson: Although, I sort of enjoy thinking about the possibilities of other Obama-supporter-videos. I would never have imagined a rant like that Priests — I mean coming from a Priest. I spent my youth in the Catholic Church and never saw a priest speak like that.
Thinking about it is a relaxing diversion for a Saturday Night.
What Will Obama’s Friend Say Next?
It appears that Larry Johnson may have something to offer on Monday morning at 9am. I sure hope so.
Totally, hlr. That’s just what its like. Those abusive boyfriends are best to just dump for good.
Hey guys. Me and mawm just finished dinner and were off to bed, its been a long day. Thank you all for the kind comments and gas money! This has been an amazing experience, but we are dog tired, so if we arent’ around that’s why. Thanks for a memorable day and we’ll talk to you all later. From an eyewitness perspective I think we have just witnessed the destruction of the democratic party. We can only hope that Hillary will see that we will not back down and will help us retake and rebuild OUR party. Night everyone!!!!
CB…reading your post, I’m almost wondering……could I really be thinking this?….what would it be like to actually join the republican party en masse and demand change there? ok, I know it’s the shock of the meeting today, coupled with the wine I’ve been drinking tonight……but it’s seeming like a plausible idea. I never thought they really cared about the religious right as anything but voters, and I’m pretty sure they’re losing them and may be looking for a new group to which to pander. I dunno. honestly I’ve never cared for the republicans, but I can’t shake this feeling in the back of my head that they would never have allowed, let alone condoned, the treatment of one of their own as the dems have with Hillary. can you imagine the republican party participating in misogynistic attacks on Condi Rice, Elizabeth Dole or Christie Todd Whitman? they may not be treated as exactly equals, but I don’t see officially sanctioned and rewarded attacks on them because they’re women. the democrats suck, and it’s high time we admitted it. the republicans suck too. so the question now is – who’s gonna suck up to us? we have votes. who wants them? and what will they give us for them?
hlr, I’m staying in the party for Hillary. For me, leaving would be giving up on Hillary’s campaign.
@KB: What I recommend everyone do is call your Representatives and Senators and give them an earful about the blatant breaking of the rules and outright vote theft. FL did nothing wrong and yet is getting punished while NH (and others) get off free. Those waivers weren’t the DNC’s to give. And, of course, MI is beyond the pale.
Call! Make your voices heard. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. Right now, too many of the so-called “reasonable” Party members actually believe Obama is electable because we’ll just get over it. Tell them we won’t. Be calm, but firm.
Also, call your local state Democratic Party. I have. The woman on the other end made it seem like my outrage wasn’t unique–at all. Just be courteous.
Edwards was part of the group that ran as “uncommitted” to take down
Hillary. When he kissed Obama, it was as if those two Axelrod campaigns ads blended.
The youth vote and black vote came out full force for Kerry,
but it wasn’t
enough. Losing any of the Democratic voting blocks (such as white women), and the Reagan Dems will end up in a crashing defeat.
If it is O., I don’t have to raise money, donate, volunteer. His
children’s crucade and “elites” and ethnic voters will do it all. I plan to be on the winning side without making any effort. Obama is lost made incarnate.
What is the Democratic Party thinking?
I just wrote undeclared Senator Sherrod Brown. Shame on him for not supporting Hillary, yet. I also wrote a letter of support to my congresswoman Betty Sutton who already is a superD for Hillary. I asked her to remain firm.
BREAKING NEWS:
The DNC has decided to award some of Hillary’s WV & KY delegates to Obama because Obama didn’t really campaign in those 2 states.
Donna Brazile has seen some surveys showing that Obama would have received roughly an additional 10% had he seriously campaigned in those States.
Furthermore by campaigning in States that did not adore Obama and winning there, she clearly proved that she was a bitch who would do anything to win.
Developing…
We can make all the calls we want to but nothing will change. We have already signed petitions, made calls to our own congress people, some even contacted the DNC, we have written, e-mailed and made our feelings known online all to no avail.
What we need to do is to send a message. Insist on a third party or vote for a candidate in another party which will surely send a message. That message envelops all those threats of our possibly losing Roe v Wade which isn’t going to happen anyway. What choice do we have? It will be a toss up come November between a sinister candidate who is destroying our party or one who is Bush lite? Either way we lose. We let them know that they cannot browbeat us into submission and put them on notice that they cannot just rubber stamp a candidate and we all fall into line.
(snort) MABlue! That’s funny!!
aacckk! maybe I just need to go to bed. but i’m honestly thinking……for those who are saying they’ll vote for McCain if Obama is the nominee…..don’t just do it as a protest. make McCain work for it. make him make pledges. he will.
am I really thinking of becoming a republican, even temporarily? not for free, certainly. but I’ve been giving my vote up to the democrats for years for nothing. I don’t want to do it anymore.
It’s so weird that the Party poobahs just don’t understand that we are not going to fall in line and vote for their Chosen One. Not this time and not with these shenanigans.
This whole thing could be a romantic comedy: How to Lose a Presidency in One Day.
That’s basically us. For god’s sake if we’re taking our cues from the Republican’s, let’s do it right. They only cheat when it counts so there are NO consequences. We did it in the primary, before it counted, so everyone has seen us do it and now they can vote against us.
We clearly have brains made of straw.
MA Blue…HILARIOUS.
PAT….I alreayd have my McCain bumper sticker ready to go if needed.
MABlue: And they also awarded him those voters who have yet to vote in 2012 based on the metric they developed today. So should he win in November, and the chances are strong since we are going to count voters who may have passed away between May 31st and November 5th based on voter intent. They might have if they could have so nobody knows and we are not taking a chance.
I just reread this thread. Is this the same Jimmy Carter who goes to every election in foreign countries to ensure the voting is on the up and up? Can’t be.
lol MABlue!
come to think of it, I didn’t campaign in any states. I’m going to demand a meeting of the DNC to give me some delegates from each state. I truly think all the people who didn’t vote would have wanted me, and dammit, people who don’t vote ought to have a voice too, for some reason.
Eh, I’d believe it MA. After all, I’m fairly certain there were some let’s say expired people who voted in Cook County and Gary, Indiana.
It is a good thing we can laugh at some of this otherwise some of us here would be drunk and crying. And I finished off the pan of brownies. My ass is beginning to look like Donna B’s.
I want to stay mad Pat and MABlue! Stop making me laugh!
ben: I want a McCain bumper sticker too. I am going to paste up alongside my dear Hillary’s.
I think Harriet was speaking for a lot of us unwanted older white women. She certainly was speaking for me. Bless her for speaking out and speaking the truth. Harriet, I’m right there with you.
I’ve already sent an email to the DNC. Again.
I’ve called and left a message for Nancy Pelosi. Again.
They’ve not listened to me before, I doubt they’ll listen to me again. Maybe they’ll finally hear me in November, when John McCain wins the presidency.
I’m exhausted and drained from watching the fiasco on tv. I can’t imagine how devastating it must have been to be there in person to witness the end of the Democratic party. A huge thank you to all who spent their time and money and energy to be there for the rest of us.
the McCain bumper sticker has to say something like:
McCain for president – ONLY because the Democrats pissed me off in 2008
gary: I’ll send you an email with the final tally. I hope that we can cover some of your hotel as well. *hint to Conflucians*
Can anyone picture tomorrow morning’s Sunday talk show circuit? They will be gushing all over themselves with delight. Except for Fox who will be too busy loop de looping the Fr. Pflegar tape. I hope they find something new to loop since I have his almost memorized due to the number of times they have played it. To think I am now a member of the Fox family.
DNC, this is what you have brought me too! And when I start sending Billo birthday cards I will need an intervention.
Pat, that’s the hardest I’ve laughed all day. I will confess to eating a whole carton (almost 2 quarts) of frozen yogurt today! i ate it for lunch, snack and supper.
Pat – lol!
you won’t go that far
Pat: This is what they wanted. They wanted to cleanse the party of those who aren’t true believers. It;s like if the christian conservatives cleansed the party of the moderates. They would love to do that if they could. We don’t matter.
Was thinking of contacting Cindy McCain for some of her famous “family” recipes until I discovered I could get them off the Betty Crocker box on my kitchen shelf. But she is in my date book as my new BFF.
The gays LOVE Cindy McCain. And she has always been proud of her country, you know.
please, y’all, don’t vote for McCain as a protest. if lots of people want to do that, get something in return. it’s doable, I really think. McCain’s probably up for making deals. he doesn’t seem all that ruled by the party establishment. I’m not saying don’t vote for him – just make him work for it.
OMG, I am reading in the comments at Talk Left that MSNBC is saying that MI people in the know are saying it’s fair to say Hill won MI, but “caution” against including it in the pop vote??? These m*therf*cking hacks!
lol, seeing Ben’s comment and then mine – we could each ask Cindy for like, $10,000. for voting for her husband. she wouldn’t miss it 🙂
How could you win a state and not have their votes counted?
kiki – he is already making moves in that direction. I believe there is one thing we won’t get… But I’ve been spayed already, so I think I am OK with that. Having a voice would be a good start.
What happened with MI at the R&B today is unconscionable. Obama STOLE 4 delegates from Clinton and got 55 more for FREE. There is no way to forgive this. FL should have had all of its delegates and as another commenter pointed out there is something terribly ironic that a Black man has argued and settled for half votes from this delegation.
I and my husband just finished changing to “unaffiliated” and will mail the forms on Monday. I also am sending a copy of it to DNC with you know what? A Special Comment.
We will be voting for McCain in Nov and that will be 4 votes Obama has to steal from somewhere else.
I think this whole process has turned into a parody.
A commenter at NoQuarter is already anticipating what is coming on Monday, should a Michelle Obama tape be released
Do you realize how closely this parody reflects the reality of what we’ve seen so far?
And a ride in her private jet. I have never ridden in one and always wanted to visit every state in America. All 57.
This is twilight zone. I really believe I’m going to wake up from this. It also reminds me of the final episode of Newhart.
Yes, the final episode of Newhart when Dick Louden wakes up after his bizarre dream.
MABlue: You have missed your calling!!! Hilarious! And upon second read, very much close to the truth.
If they are *cautioning* about including MI in the popular vote, that’s an acknowledgement that the popular vote is really important. That scares them.
I have a question for the analysts out there. Even as a hardcore Hillary supporter, I have to concede that the Obama campaign knows a thing or two about strategy. They know and understand the rules and they have been extremely intelligent in manipulating the rules, conventions and the politically sensitive pressure points to their own advantage. That is why their strategy today baffles me.
Stealing four delegates from Hillary (reduced to 2 because of the half vote) will not make the slightest bit of difference to Obama in the total delegate count. The bar for getting the nomination has been raised simply by seating the delegates of the two states. Yet, they pushed this hard to get her four delegates.
This at a time when they desperately need to mollify Hillary’s supporters – the DNC and the rest are aware that there is much anger. So why did they do this? They are willing to buy two delegates at the cost of the tremendous resentment this has caused? At the cost of strengthening the case for Hillary taking the fight to the convention? All of this for two delegates? What’s up folks?
Normally I would be tempted to say that this is foolish. But we know that of all things they are, the members of Obama’s core team are not fools. Makes me wonder if they are desperate for another reason?
Anyone out there who might have a theory?
Pat, my friend (oops, I’m already talking like McCain),
You are way too hard on yourself — eat those brownies. The Brazile nut’s butt is only that big because that’s where she is hiding those 30,000 voters that no one else can see and who didn’t vote. She will be hatching them whilst she is adorning those flying pigs with lipstick.
oh, it was a parody? not reading closely I thought these were all comments from last monday 🙂
And just because of what pm317 posted, the DNC has now awarded 7 more delelgates to Obama because of “insubordination” and the possibility that had he read it, you may have hurt Obama’s feelings.
I may just write in Bob Newhart come November…….
Duh..that’s why they took delegates away from hillary to deligitimize her popular vote in Michigan.
S, because Senator Empty Suit is an arrogant hack who doesn’t know how to win graciously.
http://blog.hillaryclinton.com/blog/main/2008/06/01/013330
from Hillary’s website, good comments………..
I want somebody to tell me just what has Hillary ever done to elicit this much hate and suppression? Hopefully someday someone will do a book about what caused this to happen. It is beyond reasoning.
kiki: Thanks, I read it. Appears like she will not be giving up.
Pat, you are making my stomach hurt. lol
tabby: I am close to tears otherwise.
back in 2000, the SC basically said that letting all the votes be counted would create a hardship for W. wtf??? fast forward 7 years and the dNC is getting their revenge in the only way they can, at the pre-GE stage. and at the expense of one of their own.
they’re nuts. I never let my daughter use the “H’ word when she was little, but I’m about to use it.
I hate them. really. they’re as f*$^&d up as the SC.
kiki: ditto
Pat Johnson, on June 1st, 2008, at 12:03 am Said:
“It is a good thing we can laugh at some of this; otherwise some of us here would be drunk and crying. And I finished off the pan of brownies. My ass is beginning to look like Donna B’s.”
Thank you, Pat. I am laughing so hard I have tears!
I know Pat. I was so angry earlier I was desperate to do something, like shoot my TV. Now I’m getting slap happy from you guys.
Wow Ben, I didn’t think of that! I just figured it was a flip-off of sorts because they could take the delegates if they wanted to. You know, we OWN this.
Yeah, I was at FDL earlier and castigated the usual clowns who hang on the threads there. You need to remember that although the front pagers there are one of the strongest progressive lineups in the ‘sphere the threads are composed of folks who are really low-info.
Many were of the opinion that folks will ‘calm down’ and ‘move on’ etc. to defeat McSame. I disabused them of that typre of thinking pointing out that it is fundamentally sexist and suggested they drop by here and get a more diverse range of opinion…
Heh…..
Now it get’s really interesting because Howard and his Homies have really put their foot in it with the utterly wrong MI ‘solution’.
If there is a difference between the Bush administration and the current leadership of the Democratic Party….
I cannot see it.
Pat, let’s start the Brownie Party. We could be HUGE (in more ways than one)
Dean and Brazile and their cronies were the only Democrats in the world who looked at fl in 2000 and thought cool! we can do that!
s–they can’t help themselves. they’re constantly given the opportunity to take the high road, but instead they go out of their way to act like even worse a#sholes than usual. It’s like a disease. I sometimes wonder if Bush hired Obama and his supporters to make him look like less of an arrogant, entitled, obnoxious p$ick in comparison.
S: At the cost of strengthening the case for Hillary taking the fight to the convention? All of this for two delegates? What’s up folks?
Normally I would be tempted to say that this is foolish. But we know that of all things they are, the members of Obama’s core team are not fools. Makes me wonder if they are desperate for another reason?
I see it as taunting. Pretty much what the mayor of Gary was doing primary evening in IN.
BO feels no need to placate Hillary supporters because he will just farm that out to low-level party operatives.
Re: taking to the convention over 4 delegates? Will not happen, BO knows that, ergo the taunting.
In short, Barry is an a-hole. The mistake he’s making is lumping all the Dems/Indys who aren’t thrilled about him into the category of “Hillary supporters.” Heck of a lot of ppl out there who are not hard-core Hill supporters, but chose to vote for her b/c they really have no use for BO.
They can scream “unity” all they want, but it’s only a fraction of registered Dems who’ll respond to that.
tabby: Outside of Bush, I have never disliked a candidate as much as I do Obama. Even Nixon had some good points in that he had intelligence. But this guy has me spooked. No telling what his agenda is since it is difficult to measure “hope” and “change”.
I”ll try to get out of moderation w/ a repost:
S: At the cost of strengthening the case for Hillary taking the fight to the convention? All of this for two delegates? What’s up folks?
Normally I would be tempted to say that this is foolish. But we know that of all things they are, the members of Obama’s core team are not fools. Makes me wonder if they are desperate for another reason?
I see it as taunting. Pretty much what the mayor of Gary was doing primary evening in IN.
BO feels no need to placate Hillary supporters because he will just farm that out to low-level party operatives.
Re: taking to the convention over 4 delegates? Will not happen, BO knows that, ergo the taunting.
In short, Barry is an a******. The mistake he’s making is lumping all the Dems/Indys who aren’t thrilled about him into the category of “Hillary supporters.” Heck of a lot of ppl out there who are not hard-core Hill supporters, but chose to vote for her b/c they really have no use for BO.
They can scream “unity” all they want, but it’s only a fraction of registered Dems who’ll respond to that.
kiki: I have gained 10 lbs since I retired in November. Just from sitting here and snacking. If this keeps up I may have to get my wardrobe from those women in the FLDS because my waist will have completely disappeared.
sarah, on May 31st, 2008 at 11:37 pm Said:
I’m not the sarah I who posted earlier.
However, I post here all the time.
I’m another Harriet – a Clinton supporter who is P O ed. I too am not going to take it anymore, and I will I’m not voting for Obama.
I say GD the Democratic Party too. The best candidate may well sit home this November, as I will. Well, I may vote for McCain I live in PA, a swing state, and I believe Obama must be stopped.
I registered Independent last week, and I say go to hell Pelosi, Dean, Brazile etc Screw you all at the DNC.
—————————-
I don’t know about you all, but I LOVE Sarah’s line, “I’m another Harriet”
That should be made into bumper stickers, shirts, mugs, everything….
And for the guys (like myself) “I’m another (male) Harriet”
🙂
On to Denver …I don’t think Hillary was surprised by today results and frankly those 4 delegates are her ticket to Denver. I don’t care if she suspends until Denver or even agrees to be his VP….just stray political alive Hill, cause when Barry implodes , you’ll be there .
Actually the VP is THE spot on an Obama ticket. I think Nancy has that carved out for herself . Do they have photos of Wexler with farm animals?? What else can explain that performance?? It was sad to see a defender of votes trade in his reputation…and for what?
@katiebird, 11:09
“In other news … the tape Larry (No Quarter) has might be doctored……”
I hope that this is wrong, but you know that’s what they’ll say regardless. Prepare to be bombarded by various expert opinions, and to be sneered at yet again by the Oborg.
This just in: Obama has been awarded two more delegates with Angelina Jolie twins. Feel that if they could have they would have voted for him so it counts.
Actually the VP is THE spot on an Obama ticket. I think Nancy has that carved out for herself . Do they have photos of Wexler with farm animals?? What else can explain that performance?? It was sad to see a defender of votes trade in his reputation…and for what?
——————————————–
Actually, am I the only one who caught Wexler’s arrogant “…the “concept of fair reflection”…” mocking of Ickes…it was clear he didn’t, even though it’s a fundamental gauge used in issues like this.
I read the political tea leaves quite differently.
All of these articles about Hillary having nothing in the Senate (no seniority etc) have been planted for a reason. The deal they will cut w/ her is most likely some high-profile task in the Senate — probably something having to do w/ health care reform.
In return, she’ll go around and about doing her campaigning duties for BO …
Neither here nor there for me.
As far as taking four delegates to Denver is concerned … I just don’t see it. The CC is stacked w/ BO supporters — nothing in it for her.
I’m just at the point where I’m deliberating if I want BO for pres, and the answer is a firm ‘no’ — irrespective of intra-party shennanigans.
Pat Johnson, on June 1st, 2008 at 12:48 am Said:
“kiki: I have gained 10 lbs since I retired in November. Just from sitting here and snacking. If this keeps up I may have to get my wardrobe from those women in the FLDS because my waist will have completely disappeared.”
This deserved repeating. I have tears running down my face. I also love kiki’s Brownie party.
Pat,
After weighing myself every single day for over 3 years, I started forgetting to do it about 2 months ago. I might be fighting for those clothes with you. If I don’t do something soon.
-Brownies anyone?
I have a question about MI. This NYTimes article says that MI is worth 124 delegates. It summarizes the compromise as:
69 is ~55% of 124. However, 59 is not 40%; it is ~47.5%. What I am assuming here is that most of the uncommitted votes were cast for BO. Where is that extra 7.5% coming from? What is standard operating procedure for allocating left over delegates from candidates who have dropped out? Has this been violated and if so is this where the “BO has been given some of HRC’s delegates” idea is coming from?
I am not sure my question is even coming through very well. Most of the stuff I have read has just focused on the outcome of the RBC decision without explaining the rational much.
I hate to be a broken record, but I mean this…..DO NOT vote for McCain as a protest without getting something for it. even a broken promise is better than nothing, but get a promise.
just voting for him as a vote against Obama would be a huge mistake. huge, like brownie party huge 🙂
if we’re going to turn our backs on the democrats, we have to do it as a group and make it mean something.
@hlr: She doesn’t need a majority to issue a minority report and take it to the floor.
It’s not about four delegates. I believe she’s still fighting for the nomination.
Interesting comment thread for this video over at Firedog. Apparently if Obama is the nominee and loses in November, it will be Hillary’s fault — not because she won’t have campaigned hard enough for him, but because she has already exercised her evil powers of mind control to create legions of Harriet Christians. Hey, I am a native NY’er (albeit an exile), so of course I liked Harriet, even though I thought she was mildly over the top.
Ryan, he got 59% of all the non-Hillary vote. He got Edwards’, Biden’s, Dodd’s, etc. In addition, he got 4 of Hillary’s by reducing her number from 73 to 69.
So, he benefited both ways and she got screwed both ways.
Hyper,
We need to stress now that Obama fails to take personal responsibility for anything. I know that one of my top reasons for despising him.
Honestly, we need to cute these themes down before they get started.
Common sense tells me that HRC should have gotten approximately 60% of non “non committed/Edward/Biden/Dodd/etc” vote. Yeah, not very fair really.
Another protest video I liked.
You might have to watch a commercial to see it.
http://video.ap.org/v/default.aspx?mk=en-ap&g=db2fd514-34de-4b38-9092-d997e6933472&f=wasee&fg=email
Harriet is pretty over the top IMHO..
But hell, if Obama is nominated and loses in November it will probably be due to legions of Obama supporters ceaselessly mocking and disrespecting legions of Harriet Christians.
And the irony of the century award goes to…Hazel!
Over the top? Not at all. No, that is raw emotion. Do not be afraid of it. That is a woman speaking her true feelings and not holding back. You may be seeing a bit more of that kind of thing in the next several months. Get used to it.
Lots of trolling going on here tonight.
http://noquarterusa.net seems to have been hijacked, maybe. I’m only getting a page saying: “It works!”
Emphasis on the *shaking my head* poor grammar.
For the record I support BO. I am glad that he got the 40% not committed votes. I genuinely believe that the vast majority of those votes were cast to vote for him (hence the exit polling stuff). I guess I just do not feel obligated to assert that BO should have received all of the non HRC/not committed votes in a state where she clearly performed better.
Some people here have argued BO deserved no MI delegates; I still disagree with that argument. Insinuating that HRC supporters believe BO is less than human is pretty asinine.
Even the Obamafan trolls are lame. How tragic.
Ryan, if you are a BO supporter then why are you happy about that development? I’d say pretty much every one of his and the DNC’s machinations have brought him to the brink of being completely unelectable. It is a matter of winning a trivial battle in a minor theater while completely sacrificing the overall war.
In my opinion, what they did with MI pretty much seals Obama’s and the democratic parties fate come November. The absolute hubris of the whole thing is shocking. It reminds me of Gore and Bush bickering about what to do with the economic surplus Mr. Bill left us with back in 2000. The DNC and Obama are busy dividing up the pie on issues like VP, the cabinet, choice committee’s, etc. without so much as actually securing any victories in November. I for one am NOT going to vote for any Democrat this fall. Not one single fucking Democrat. After this election they have proven without a shadow of a doubt that they aren’t interested in governing, honesty or competence so I am no longer interested in them.
It seems that nobody is moderating at this late hour. Eh, pretty sure those comments are not going to be here (or anywhere!) in the morning.
My prayer as I go to sleep tonight…”Please God, let the tape exist…and let it be real!”
Shainzona,
That’s my prayer too.
==== Anyone out there who might have a theory?
Looking forward to November, they seated two swing states with a lot of voters and gave Hillary a couple of token wins and a handful more popular votes, but did not bump up the total delegate count enough to force Obama to have to pull more than a handful of the Super Delegates in order to win the nomination. There are only a couple hundered un declared SDs left. If they had fully seated both Florida and Michigan, Obama would have to either do a lot better in that last three primaries than he is expected to and pull nearly half of the remaining supers. As it sits now, with the current count, he should pull forty or so from the remaining primaries and then will only need a few dozen SDs out of the couple hundred left undeclared to reach the magic number. IMO, the big key is for Hillary not to “throw her support” and free her delegates behind Obama until the convention, a lot can happen in 3 months especially when dealing with Baracula and his legions. If Barack leaves the convention the Dem candidate I will dedicate myself to electing McCain and unseating Pelosi, Reid and every other SD in office who engineered this theft and destruction of the Democratic party. The last two years have already made me regret working so hard and paying so much to gain the Dem majority in the last elections, nothing would please me more than working to correct those mistakes.
gregoryp, I am not happy about the development. I think you are spot on with characterizing the results of the RBC committee as detracting from BO’s GE prospects.
As an institution the Democratic Party needs to be able to regulate its members and I am not sure how else this can be done (not saying it cannot) without penalizing delegates. However, in this instance penalizing delegates increases the chances of a GE loss. For many reasons, a GE loss this year would probably lead to a very high amount of party infighting; in effect undermining long term institutional viability.
I am not sure why I spent so long saying this but yeah: the penalty is a bad idea on pretty much every level. I do not share the same doom and gloom assessment of November prospects that is relatively common here but why take chances when one does not have to? At the end of the day the RBC results will probably become a liability which is frustrating because it did not have to be.
Hmmm…looks like NoQuarter got hijacked. I got the “It Works” thing and then got a 404. Maybe it did get hacked and Larry had to take it down for now.
What a day. I cannot in good conscience vote for Obama in November. Also, I won’t do a protest vote either. I want the anti-Obama vote to count and for the DNC to know I specifically voted against Obama. So, my vote will be for McCain.
And I hope Donna Brazile doesn’t start her “I’m gonna cook something for you baby” shit, cuz I’m from St. Bernard Parish, the parish below NOLA where 95% of our homes/bldgs. took on water. Donna, I can cook for myself and I’m gonna cook something for YOU come November. It’s gonna be gumbo that’s gonna knock you on your butt! I’m gonna call it “McCain, bitter but spicy gumbo.” I’m gonna have to get started on this gumbo cuz first you gotta make the roux and then you have to put in all the ingredients like bitter, clingy, poor, uneducated and White and then let it simmer for a looongggg time; till about November. Donna baby, that gumbo gonna take your breath away! LOL!! 😉
I cannot believe the DNC is condoning reverse-racism. It is very sad to see and thank you Ms. Harriet for standing up for democracy today. America thanks you for your true patriotism and expressing the feelings of millions who could not be there today. Ms. Harriet, we salute you.
Ferraro wrote an amazing article about this, and I think she hit the nail on the head in this one – great read:
http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2008/05/30/healing_the_wounds_of_democrats_sexism/
And this one by Ellen Goodman is an amazing speech of what Obama should say, but I know never will – because he just doesn’t get it, as he doesn’t get the women in this country (of all races).
A great read:
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20080528_what_obama_should_say_to_women/
You know I am growing increasingly uncomfortable at how much it looks like some invisible Republicans are “pushing peoples’ buttons”.
Dropping a world in Larry Johnson’s ear about these videos that may or may not exist would be the sort of way buttons get pushed.
Someone hints to one group, knowing their biases and their weaknesses, “this election needs to be about McCain. If you don’t stop this NOW…” and that group gets so whupped up about Clinton they do not have the wisdom to pressure other people to keep the campaign fair, or whatever.
It is as if every Democrat in the nation is reacting to some totally outrageous, totally inflammatory, totally unacceptable thing – the one thing that would really, really set them off. And I can’t help but notice that guy in the corner – the one grinning – once announced he was going to have Democrat attacking Democrat, grin grin grin. He calls it “operation Chaos”.
I believe Clinton fell for this early and has identified the threat and is trying to correct for it. (This isn’t the first time she came into contact with a “vast right wing conspiracy”). But Obama, Dean, Pelosi, Brazile are behaving as if Republicans wrote the script for them.
All this stuff about “unity” appears a perfect party-destroying dream considering the Democratic party was never about unity, but always about a delicate balance between groups that have as much in conflict as they do in common.
There used to be core principles that unified us, a common vision. Somehow that got lost.
Stealing 4 delegates from one candidate and giving them to another candidate, then adding 55 delegates to that candidate which were cast for a viable classification under the rules–uncommitted?
That’s pretty stunning. To knowingly and publicly violate the DNC Charter in full view of the nation!
It’s breathtaking.
I don’t know what Sen. Clinton will do; I hope she takes this to the Convention. But they have obviously COUNTED not only on our votes in November, no matter what they do; but on Sen. Clinton’s devotion to PARTY, to give them cover for this stunning ruling.
I’m still shaking my head: STEALING DELEGATES TO GIVE THEM TO A CANDIDATE WHO WASN’T EVEN ON THE BALLOT? What on earth has possessed these Democratic Party leaders? They are the ones who are batshit crazy, if you ask me.
As an institution the Democratic Party needs to be able to regulate its members and I am not sure how else this can be done (not saying it cannot) without penalizing delegates.
The problem here is quite clear: the DNC abused and misused its authority.
It’s the difference between a parent who approaches discipline as a responsibility vs. the parent who just uses the child as an excuse to piss off an ex-spouse.
Hazel, my dear–please calm down. Like our sister Harriet it appears that your raw passion is so great that it seems to burst forth like an over-ripe tomato.
This is another example of how Republicans push buttons – knowing that younger male Democrats have a certain weak spot in that they don’t seem to have much respect for older women. (Another weakness: the incredible arrogance and even narcissism that young male progressives.)
err that young male progressives show, I meant to say.
I’m a middle-aged male [45], and after seeing the misogynistic swill from male “progressives”, young and otherwise, I have damned little respect for THEM.
Melissa at Shakesville calls their kind “fauxgressives”.
A superdelegate from Florida thinks people will “calm down” in a couple of weeks.
They believe they have now CLEANSED the party of the “racists,” “conservatives,” “older women,” and “the uneducated.” They have purity now. That is what they wanted.
jacilyn, sweetie, go grieve at one of the many sites that promote Barky-O. They’ll be a lot more sympathetic.
jacilyn, sweetie, go grieve at one of the many sites that promote Barky-O. They’ll be a lot more sympathetic.
I would like to know what I said that makes me an Obama troll.
If you were referring to Republicans pushing Democratic buttons, let me just point out that rifts are exploding along every fault line – age, income, gender, race, it’s like an identity politics apocalypse. (I have a hard time getting my head around feminists attacking Geraldine Ferraro). The coalition is dead & I am asserting that the Republicans helped that process along.
If you were referring to the italicized remarks, that was a quote from a troll.
Unfortunately, the Republicans didn’t need to push the misogyny button. BO’s campaign and the DNC did that all by themselves.
I think that the best way to send a message to the Democratic Party is to get John McCain elected in a very public way – unless of course, Hillary is the nominee. However, I don’t think we should send McCain our support without getting something in return. What would we want from him if we do this? I think Harriet would agree that POWs for McCain might work as a group title – Pissed Off Women for McCain.
samanthasmom, I like POWs for McCain. He should borrow that.
jacilyn, thank you for giving this phenomenon a name, identity politics apocalypse is the right term.
@samanthasmom:
I’m really tired of the threats or “we’ll vote for John McCain” or “we won’t vote @ all“. Well, you know what I say if you can’t get in line with the party, then take your ass out and go be a Republican because in general terms you are already there. I mean, you guys sit back and watch some of the supporters of Hillary Clinton, and you wonder are they just that loyal, or can they not stand the thought of supporting a Black Man for president of the United States of America.
It’s a shame you’d rather support a third term for George Bush that vote for a Democrat this isn’t your choice. Way to put personal feelings over country, real patriotic… You guys are a joke if you cross party lines because you can’t have your way. Hillary Clinton has run a piss poor campaign that is in debt by millions of dollars, and who do you want to blame? She thought the contest would be over after Iowa, so the plan was not to go the distance, which was poor preparation. The Clinton’s have done their part and done good things, but it is time to move on into another direction for the betterment of the country. The old way isn’t working, and quite frankly Hillary Clinton’s behavior and political posturing hasn’t given me an indication that she is about anything new….
Ps. responding to this or saying I’m an Obama Troll is really juvenile, and I expect that from Republicans, but I expect more from free thinking independent democrats, so show me why I’m wrong and don’t take the easy route…
Just keep digging…
you wrecked my keyboard this morning!
“MABlue, on May 31st, 2008 at 11:53 pm Said:
BREAKING NEWS:
The DNC has decided to award some of Hillary’s WV & KY delegates to Obama because Obama didn’t really campaign in those 2 states.
Donna Brazile has seen some surveys showing that Obama would have received roughly an additional 10% had he seriously campaigned in those States.
Furthermore by campaigning in States that did not adore Obama and winning there, she clearly proved that she was a bitch who would do anything to win.
Developing…”
I’m really tired of the threats or “we’ll vote for John McCain” or “we won’t vote @ all“.
They are not threats, they are promises. Your Affirmative Action candidate does not impress us. He is an unqualified empty suit who has gotten a free pass. So I am glad we have your blessing to vote against him in November, Lord knows how important that is.
@dotcommodity: that’s rather hilarious, did you come up with that all by yourself, or did you get that talking point from somebody….lol
Defying logic isn’t a good thing. I think I’m more apt to concede on Florida because everybody’s name was @ least on the ballot. However, I can’t imagine how you want to take Michigan as well, where everybody agreed to take their name off the ballot except the freedom fighter Hillary Clinton….lol Seriously, you’d rather take that kind of democracy than a logical decision to split the vote or portion the vote to make things fair. Furthermore, even if she would of gotten all the delegates, she wouldn’t of pulled ahead. It’s like you guys have an ulterior motive…lol You count the popular vote but can’t count it in other states that didn’t even run their elections like that…yea, that sounds about right….
Um, I am a little concerned at advocating a vote for McCain as somehow teaching the DNC not to cleanse us out of the D party.
They will simply blame Hillary for breathing when McCain wins. We already know that, they have done it already.
McCain already has a 100% chance to lose to Hillary.
http://hominidviews.com/?p=1560
They will not blame themselves for destroying the party. They will not blame Obama for his divisive campaign. They will not blame us for being too low info… They will blame Hillary.
They will not learn from this experience.
There is only one choice for us. Hillary is already going to be blamed anyway when Obama loses, as he would anyway, even without our helping McCain.
http://hominidviews.com/?p=1569
(Some weeks he is a little up on McCain, but a nominee should be trouncing him outside the margin of (dirty trick) error, as she is).
We must each unite in one movement, not some of us help the Rethugs, etc.
Our one movement should be Denver.
The only reason for “not Denver” is being blamed for creating the “split” in the party. Well….
They already split the party. Hillary is already blamed for that. Those months of WWTSBQ. We had to take that shit all this time. (BTW Ed Schultz was paid by the DNC to trash Hillary.)
OK. Heres Why Won’t The Stupid Bitch Quit:
Because WE going to Denver.
jamessye- You missed the point. Of course
jamessye- You missed the point. No surprise there.
We need to reformthe primary system.
We need to have delegate allocation that mimics the electoral vote allocation.
That Obama got 95% of his 136 delegate lead in 7 little red state caucuses with fewer than 1 million people voting is wrong.
And then to casually strip her of 600,000 votes as well!
That his wins were mostly in red states that we will never win, is just tragic
Because this caucus easy win creates a candidate poised to be unelectable in the GE. There will be no DNC thumb on the scale to help in the GE.
Theres only one way to win. Win swing states, like she did.
http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Clinton/Maps/May30.html
Those swing states now say she is better than McCain.
Its hard work, but you have to go in front of swing state voters and find a way to convince them you can (despite your gender/race) bring them real help, like she did. He wouldn’t try.
He could have, if he ran as a Democrat.
But he won’t. He’s dancin with them that brung him.
Sorry, 15 little caucuses comprising 1 million people.
Even worse than I thought.
…so 1 measly million people get an outrageously high number of delegates from caucuses.
Whereas the DNC thumb can casually steal over half a million of her MI voters and give them to Obama!!!!!!
“Way to put personal feelings over country, real patriotic” –> Oh hey, new meme. Now, if we don’t line up and support Obama, we’re bad Americans! The mind reels!
you wonder are they just that loyal, or can they not stand the thought of supporting a Black Man for president of the United States of America.
I could vote for a black man. Colin Powell comes to mind. But not this pretender/amateur.
question: Are Jane H & firedoglake really sympathetic to democracy? I’ve read mixed reports.
i was just at another blog tonight were a very nice looking young lady(not the same caliber as r.d. and the other ladies here of course) was calling harriet a racist…
i asked why she called the woman a racist…and asked if she(the blogger) was trying to say obie was not black…and i then pointed out that obie has called himself that(black man), and asked if he was racist for doing so…
she responded by telling me i missed the boat(oh how many, many times have i done that?…many many)…
and then she told me the woman was saying obie is inadaquate because he is black…
so i asked her…where did harriet say “because”?..
at that point the blogger removed both my post…so i let it go…
Larry never said that he had the tape of Michelle. Just additional information and clarification.
(for some commenters, upthread)
S: They took them because the Michigan Democratic Party compromised on them and because there was a very good possibility that Hillary could have beaten him in the delegate count if it ever came to seating all states fully. She was predicted to win PR, which she did, decisively and she beat him in South Dakota. By making it look like it was impossible for her to win, Obama kept the number of her voters suppressed in the last three primaries. If she had prevailed, who knows? Montana might have have gone her way as well. That was too risky so they took what was offered to them. It was still cheating but Obama the Unready, the ever immature and irresponsible, took them anyway. Their only goal was winning. Now that that is out of the way, they can turn their attention to conquering us.
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