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RBC Meeting Live Blog- Thread 2

Hopefully, Gary will look up from his posting and see the comments in the last thread and move over here but feel free to keep us updated in the comments as events proceed.

12:30–The state Dem party of MI is up as challenger. Will outline Mich. proposal. Seat entire 157 delegation at full voting strength. 69 for Clinton 59 for Obama. I hope he explains where that # comes from. Now to the proposal. Should seat entire delegation because MI has been punished enough and further punishment puts MI at risk in GE, and it is a must win. No campaign in MI. They were completely by-passed and that’s enormous punishment. Every time McCain visits MI, they never fail to remind them that Dems don’t care about MI. He wants a waiver, as has been granted to other states. OK, now to the numbers. Says it is fair reflection of voter preference. says actual vote was not a reflection of voter preference? They are arbitrarily picking what they think is fair? (Wow, about half of the crowd has left, what’s that all about?). Why do they want to count voters who didn’t vote?? what kind of banana republic do they want to make of this country? He is arguing that Obama should get delegates from voters who voted against him, that is unacceptable. This crap about proxy votes through uncommitted is BS, and his assertion that Obama’s supporters were urged to vote uncommitted is an admission that he campaigned there isn’t it?

12:40–Did he just say that “WE” urged people to vote uncommitted? Where is the proof that those voters wanted Obama? that’s ridiculous. This is the craziest thing I’ve ever heard. Their interpretation is more fair than the actual vote? What planet is he from? Question from Flournoy: basing 69 -59 on exit polls? use primary, exits and write in votes. Votes cast in primary is that is valid is not enough to allocate delegates. He says there was an incomplete ballot, but Obama voluntarily took his name off the ballot.( the obama supporter who was sitting next to me just moved two seats down to get away from me…how immature, and I am in no way making a scene 🙂 ) Next question: Uncommitted is legitimate, you can’t give those to another candidate. She says they are like SD’s they can make up their own mind. The argument for both FL and MI are weak I think. Like she just said, they want to decide this willy-nilly. This is really troubling. He says that this is a unique situation. circumstantial evidence does not equal real votes in my opinion. We want to replace real votes with exit polls, if that were the case Kerry would be President. Why should we allow bureaucrats determine who won determined on people who weren’t even on the ballot….that doesn’t make sense even in Wonderland. Question: where is the Rule that lets you allocate delegates? No rules apply, but we have to do something…these people are incredible….Ickes: didn’t they withdraw voluntarily? and no party rule required them to do that. The DNC did not exhort them to do that, and the pledge entered into made no mention that they withdraw their names. Was to curry favor in Iowa. applause.

12:55–weak answer. There were no other elections but primary, some local elections. Nothing statewide. He is trying to imply that Hillary was only option so it was not a legitimate election. I can’t believe they are trying to decide elections on suppositions. Again voters who did not vote should be heard!!! Did he just say that some of the voters who voted for Hillary actually wanted to vote for Obama?????????? We are definitely through the looking glass now. Absolutely amazing! The reason we don’t use the same guidelines as you did for affirmative action is because this was an ELECTION!

1:00PM–Carl Levin is up now. How did they achieve unity? And I really hate that they are throwing that out so much, as if Clinton is against unity. Says all parties agree on full seating, but not as the actual election turned out. The only fair way is to use the actual primary results. jeez…. Levin says Obama will argue that primary was flawed. can’t wait for that. Clinton wants to let Obama have uncommitted voters(?) Says not seating full delegation will create disunity. How are they going to give MI full voting rights, but only half to FL? Levin asks: How did we get here? says MI understands primary system is flawed. IA and NH have a privledged position, and that no state should have that. After all that talk of unity he seems to be bashing the DNC and NH. If you give NH a waiver, give MI a waiver. He seems to have gone past his 15 min. sorry had to step out for a sec. Looks like we’re on to questions for Levin.

1:22–OK, time-out I am STARVING he he. Now, lets resume…She says why does it matter if they took their name off if it wasn’t going to matter. But they never said that the delegates couldn’t be restored. Her argument holds no water. How in the heck do you play with the variables? Answer: you don’t. you do what the voters dictated, end of story. As for the write-ins, I say count them. She wants to know how they came up with the numbers 69-59. Why do they keep saying that obama and edwards supporters were not allowed to vote for their candidate? The only person to blame for that are Edwards and Obama. That seems pretty straightforward to me. He keeps saying it was a flawed primary, but it was certified and legal, am I correct? Levin admits, its not fair, it just splits the difference between what Clinton and Obama want. Oh, so now Obama interpreted the rules to mean he had to take his name off the ballot? Worried about precedent of taking votes from Clinton and giving them to Obama. Yeah, that is a bit worrisome if you want a democracy.

1:30pm–Levin responds to the question of precedent. He says it is a compromise. Says he is concerned about precedent, but this is a resolution reached “on the ground”. So his answer is “because it works”? Ickes says uncommitted status is given same rights and status as named candidate. This proposal is undemocratic. gives those uncommitted delegates to one candidate based on exit polls. This is especially bad since they have been so off this season. Those delegates should be fair game. Ickes says it’s stunning that they would take 4 delegates from Clinton and give them to Obama. when he said why not 10 the obots around me applauded (so I guess they approve of stealing) amazing. They are so morally bankrupt it is truly amazing. I have to say, I think this party is F#$#ed. His argument makes no sense. If this was a flawed primary, why is he arguing to seat the delegation. I am truly stunned that Obama’s supporters are applauding the random distribution of votes. These people are not only not Democrats, they are not democratic.

1:45pm–Rep Bonyer (sp?) is speaking for Obama. Obama wants a compromise (your voters votes go to me). Obama supporters seem to hate demcoracy. The Obama supporters here are just as nasty as our trolls. They sneer whenever Hillary’s name is mentioned. All of these argument about uncommitted are meaningless. Again, why did Obama supporters vote for uncommitted, who told them to do that? He wants delegates split evenly, effectively the same as not seating them at all. Again the mysterious voters who didn’t vote should have a voice…(obama’s ghost voters). How ridiculous is that? so he wants a 50/50 split. That’s the Obama idea of compromise. It is clear that they should be split? He is getting lots of boos and hisses. If it was flawed, why not let the delegates make up their own minds? Can you believe they are applauding the disenfranchisement of voters? Wants to reinstate all MI SD’s. Were they for that in FL? I can’t remember.

2:00pm–One thing I’ve noticed. In person, his supporters try to make more noise than their numbers really indicate. A lot like the way the look at voting. They really do believe that some votes are more equal than others. Question: Why take your name of the ballot? Says DC primary “doesn’t count” but people still vote. They want to express their preference. “The voter is the final decision”. The caucus is a flawed process. good point, so don’t the states that have both, shouldn’t the primary act as an “exit poll” to determine delegate allocation? His answer:”We were following the ROOOOLLZZZ!!!!” Oh now he says they had the opportunity to have a caucus but didn’t want to. He just said that not having their name on ballot made the process flawed. So why did he take his name off? Didn’t he contribute to the flawed primary by doing that? “Honor the Vote”. She is right about the uncommited’s too. It really shows how sleazy they are. They want to cheat, they care nothing about fair elections. He wants to respect the integrity of the people who didn’t vote???????? I can’t believe this is what they keep falling back on. What about all those poor 17 y/o’s who wanted so bad to be cool and vote Obama? shouldn’t we count them too? This is ridiculous.

2:10pm–I get the impression that most questions are not buying Obama’s story. But maybe those who are already in the tank are just not bothering to ask questions. The new Obama line “Some imaginary voters are more equal than real flesh and blood voters”. I just noticed that CNN reported that “dozens” of people were protesting. I can attest that as of 8am it was at least several hundred, and I’ve heard accounts here of thousands. Our media is beyond reprehensible. Why not cancel all elections if we are going to just divide everything up afterward without regard to actual votes. Says supports full restoration, unless it hurts them of course…

2:15–Now we have Clinton’s side. Former Gov Blanchard (?) of MI. Strongly urge RBC to make MI count. No dem has won without MI except Carter against native son Ford. MI is reliably democratic. You cannot turn your back on the 600,000 voters of MI. More than voted in NV, IA, NH combined. Says he will campaign for Obama. Says the same of Hillary. We need a nominee of 50 states. Hillary’s people have been by far more well-received in my opinion. Four candidates took their names of the ballot. A knowing, willing, decision. It was a STRATEGY. (called pandering to Iowa). There was a vigorous, organized uncommitted campaign (for Obama). People were publicly urged to do so. Obama, Edwards, and Richardson handed out handbills to do so. Hillary wants 73 Hillary-55 uncommitted.  Hillary didn’t interfere with uncommitted caucuses. You have to honor 600,000 voters of MI.  They should reflect voters’ preference.

226 Responses

  1. Wexler is making a total ass of himself, but I have to say that Ickes is no prize either.

  2. I don’t think this buffoon did any good to Obama.

  3. Yeah, I saw the female Clinton supporter roll her eyes when Ickes started talking.

    He should have said: “it would take too long to teach Wexler concept of fair representation.”

  4. Wexler certainly introduced an element of animosity to the proceedings, while DEMANDING unity.

  5. Maria Garcia, I agree.

  6. No one has asked him the question: If you support the petition, then you are supporting 100 percent seating of the superdelegates, correct?

  7. Oh thank Alice Huffman. thank you. thank you. thank you.

  8. Wexler just condescended on all questioners.

    The arrogance is not limited to Obama but to his supporters too.

  9. So now Obama camp is attacking the committee? I wish this would backfire, but I doubt it will. The koolaid is strong.

  10. OMG Wexler is obnoxious.

  11. Also not getting why it helps any argument to cite what REPUBLICANS did in Florida!

  12. Okay, some redemption for Wexler. But an even better follow up from questioner.

  13. Why is the room so packed with Obamabots? Wexler sounds unhinged and the audience is cheering every snarky, shouting word.
    You want Obama so bad? If you force him in as the nominee, you’ve kissed my vote goodbye.

  14. Alice Huffman rocks. The women are doing better than the men so far.


  16. Huffman is saying I am interested in the VOTERS not just a candidate.
    Good on her.
    she was disrespected by Wexler and she just pwned his butt.

  17. So, Wexler could not say he would want 100% of delegates from FL. What an A**!

    Clearly, Obama will go no further than 50% of all delegates, voted for and SDs.

    WHich is not the Ausman petition, which he says they support. Crikey!!

  18. Wexler does not like to actually answer the questions.

  19. Ha ha. He challenged the wrong person.

  20. Alice Hoffman = awesome.

  21. Hear, hear MABlue!

  22. Haha, Wexler is channeling Obama. “No one has done more for voters’ rights…”

  23. Roosevelt seems to be fluffling for Wexler. Now, when they’re finally getting to the kernals of the issues, Roosevelt is saying out of time.

    His grandmother would be very disappointed.

    Wexler trying to use his 2000 stands to defend his not counting votes in 2008.

    Stop shouting, please, Robert.

  24. Holy cow Wexler is losing his shit up there

  25. The rain just hit where I live … right across the District line. I give it 15min-20min to start raining downtown.

  26. Why is he hanging to to Ausman?

    Will he reject seating the whole delegation he is part of?

  27. OMG, the Obama meme of “No one has done more for X than I have” has spread to his representatives.

  28. I’m really starting to despise the Obamanation.

  29. The Obama position is strangely dictatorial. You can’t force or demand unity.

  30. heh…starting?? 🙂

  31. I am disappointed in Wexler’s presentation — but it seems to happen to those who drink too much Kool-Aid.

    Now Katz has to defend Wexler bcz what he’s being forced to say for the Obama campaign is making him look like a DO NOT COUNT THE VOTES and SCREW THE VOTERS kind of guy.

    That “light” some have seen seems to blind them.

  32. Still clear in the middle of the city.. grabbing my umbrella when I head out though 🙂

  33. The Hillary supporters are outside protesting (most likely).

  34. I know, but I try to resist hating, it’s bad for my karma.

  35. Unity = Genuflecting to Obama’s demands.

    Some definition of unity. I think I need some Tums.

  36. Oh goodnesss….I’d love to be at their lunches…

  37. Well, don’t really “hate” of course, but you know…

  38. Wow. Does anyone think that this overzealous, enraged persona is going to win the GE for democrats? They are going to scare off people. I can imagine what the convention will be like. I thought it would be a unity pony, but now I fear it will be a rage session.

  39. dar1a g — put on any rain gear you have — it’s now a tornado watch, LOL.

  40. heh, like I said, calls for unity that are communicated by screaming…not so much with the effectiveness…

  41. LOL Rd, I just saw this, so its ok to just add updates to this post?

  42. The Obama position is strangely dictatorial. You can’t force or demand unity.

    It always has been, yeah. All over the place it’s been how many months of rude behavior, insults, trashing our candidate, pounding the table to try and bully people into agreement.. in the name of the Unity Pony.

  43. I do.
    I used to like Robert Wexler but, Jesus, what a showboater. He thinks he’schanneling Patrick Henry.

  44. Gary – what’s it like in there? I know it’s prolly different from watching it on CSPAN…did you try and trip Wexler when he was leaving? …j/k

  45. Maria Garcia: Does anyone think that this overzealous, enraged persona is going to win the GE for democrats? They are going to scare off people.

    Anyone who has had direct contact w/ obamanation already feels this way — hence all the discussion about voting down ‘the movement.’

  46. Sh!t, are you serious? there are no tornadoes in downtown Washington! I don’t have any rain gear.. 🙂 Oh well I guess I could always duck into the Starbucks if it comes to that. I don’t live all that far away from the Marriott anyhow.

  47. A lot of people just left, I guess they don’t care that much about MI. Capt–atmosphere here is tense. I have Obots to the left and right muttering under their breaths. But Wexler really came off as a tool, I think the obots cheered louder to make up for his poor performance. That bit about “concessions” was not received well, and his rant at the end about himself was just embarassing

  48. I don’t know much about Michigan primary, so this will be educational for me…(other than removing names off the ballots)

  49. Is it raining outside?
    how is the rally going?

  50. wow, is that thunder? I thought it was the AC or something.

  51. daria1 g:

    Latest from the Capital Weather Gang
    Tornado Watch Issued; Storm Threat Until Evening. Tornado Watch in effect until 5 pm EDT this afternoon.

    I’m going to wait for it to pass over here as we almost always lose power, and then I might head down.

  52. gary: can you edit this post? BTW, we’re working on a paypal account. Can you send me your expenses so far?

  53. Gary, you’re doing an awesome job. Hope you’re having fun, in spite of the nearby Obots.

  54. Obama didn’t earn ANY del in MI, they were uncommitted.

    Giving him any will be election theft.

  55. Michigan is going to be a harder sell. Michigan really did break the rules (not that I care . . .).

    Actually, when folks have time they should listen to Van Sustren’s interview with Ferraro. That’s where I got what I little I know about it.

  56. But he doesn’t deserve votes he didn’t earn.

  57. gary! you are doing a great job! (hope you had breakfast and not too much coffee 🙂

    Huffman for Hillary’s VP.

  58. Thanks Gary for letting us know what’s going on in the room. It’s hard to tell from TV, although Wexler’s and his supporter’s hostility came through loud and clear. It’s just hard to tell how many of them are there. Does it seem like their “intimidation” is making any kind of impression on the committee?

  59. heh, is there a rule that you can only call the primaries “events” in this meeting?

  60. Yes. I’d also like to know how the rally is going? Does anyone know?

  61. Finally, someone brings up the waiver for other states

  62. MSNBC just made point that the committee is fully within the Rules (but not The Roolz) to give FL 100%.

    I think it really ticked off some members that Wexler would not answer all questions. Like the simple one, would you accept all delegates being seated???


    I don’t think Wexler helped, altho’ Roosevelt tried to fluff and protect him.

  63. I’ll comprise on that…it brings the threshold number higher for nomination. Since Mich is such a “weak” case, I think it works.

  64. So Obama now admits that he campaigned in Michigan?

  65. Whose fault is it that they aren’t on the ballot? Pshaw.

  66. Let them remain uncommitted and chose at the convention.

  67. Ahhh…that tornado is a good sign. The heaven’s are opening and vengeance will be ours!!!

    Oh I wish I was there sitting with the Obamabots. I get no greater pleasure than telling them I’m not voting for McCain or just hinting at it infuriates them. They really do look down on us. I love it.

  68. oh hell’s bells! he’s using EXIT POLLS to calculate BO’s vote totals?

  69. I do not want to be “unified” with this group. How Hillary can take the abuse is mystifiying. These Obama supporters are rabid.

  70. Obama and Edwards took their names off and now Obama should be rewarded?

  71. I love the way he thinks an exit poll tells a truer story than a legal, certified ELECTION.

    Why do these people call themselves Democrats? Don’t they know the meaning of the word.

  72. it doesn’t occur to this dude that Obama taking his OWN name off the ballot was what disenfranchished his OWN voters?

    come on, Obama! put on the big boy pants now and be responsible for your own behavior!

  73. I think I’m in love with Tina.

  74. Fair? Based on what?

    Some bogus exit polling and anecdotes?

  75. Here goes the awesome Tina Flournoy.

    She’s questioning Brewer’s use of exit polls in delegate allocation.

  76. Heh, I love her…that’s the same reason I’m in law school too! 🙂

  77. Amen Tina.

  78. This is such garbage. Exit polls?? Are you kidding me?

  79. The reason we have an “incomplete ballot” is Obama took his name off the ballot? Correct.

    But of course, don’t let them ask the follow up.

  80. Right on, Ms. Karmack

  81. That actually is pretty convincing, Elaine.

  82. This lady is brilliant.

  83. I LOVE Elaine Kamark – Eloquent and Brilliant analysis of the problem!

  84. Ms Kamarck is talking sense. Take a little bit from here and a little bit from exit polls and that makes the argument for Obama?

  85. The “extraordinary situation” is an affirmative action candidate.

    But now we know why they wanted Edwards’ support. This way he could claim Edwards supporters in Michigan.

  86. political evidence?? yeah, that would hold up in court.

  87. “We find ourselves in a unique and extraordinary position”


    Aargh, why do they want to reward this skullduggery?

  88. hahahaha….i love that about exit polls

  89. Why would Obama get the votes from people who didn’t cast a ballot for him?

  90. Don Fowler makes a good point that Al Gore would be President today if “intent” counted.

  91. It’s weird…no one on the committee is saying NOT to give Mich 100% … which is good, but I thought that would be more controversial.

  92. Can this MI guy give us the hard data on the Write-in ballots?

  93. I feel like I am just going through the motions. If Obama is the nominee I am not voting for him anyway no matter the theme about “party unity” or “think of the SC”. No Hillary, no me.

  94. fair reflection! It’s in the rules, Rep. Wexler…

  95. When are these guys going to take a break? I’m starving.

  96. Aug. 5th Revot! Brewer said we need a way to allocate the delegates and a revote is a way. Just do a waiver to supercede the June 10th ending requirement.

  97. heh, not for a bit, as i understand it. not until Mich. is done…so…2 more speakers? Sen. Levin…then Bonior, I think

  98. EDIT: Aug. 5th Revote!

  99. Bonior backs Obama. Levin, don’t know.

  100. Oh gods….not the “Clinton is well-known” argument…c’mon!

  101. Pat:

    Bonior was Edwards’ guy.

  102. I guess in Mich., the Obama supporters are basing the results on “hope”

  103. Why is this old fart Hynes arguing that absentee ballots would be Obama ballots?

  104. He didn’t even count the Write-in?

  105. The best we have is the actual result.


  106. But maybe that is because you hoped Gore would step in or Edwards would win or or Santa Claus might give up his North Pole gig.

    Hillary started looking damn good to a lot of people when put up against Obama

  107. I think you can argue about what voters did and didn’t do…but legally, to the rules, people voted how they did, you can’t change that, so take the votes are they were. There’s no such thing as fighting for non-votes (people who didn’t vote) or theoretical votes.

    With Mich., take the votes either 100%, 50%, or whatever. But you can’t change the actual votes…

  108. So this doddering old fool’s point is what?

    Obama actually won MI?

  109. You’ve got to give it to Obama, his disgusting old-skool Chicago-style politics have managed to make Clinton’s votes look illegitimate despite the fact it was him who took the name off the ballot. Obviously it was the plan all along.

  110. And now Hynes wants to count those people who didn’t vote?! Barry took his name off the ballot. Barry is the one who said, “Screw you, Michigan voters!”

  111. apparently we are supposed to guess what the MI voters wanted and that there is some legal basis for that guessing.

  112. Michigan is more complicated than Florida and it has the most need for a revote because all we have are guesses on how Obama would have done in Michigan.

  113. I think if we take people who never heard of Clinton’s position on healthcare, but now like it, i think we can add 4.7% to Hillary’s tally.

    How about that?

    What a charade!

  114. The only answer is to hold another election and allow the Michigan voters to express a preference instead of this speculation where they take all the votes cast for Hillary and pretend they belong to Obama.

  115. lyn5, on May 31st, 2008 at 1:02 pm Said:
    And now Hynes wants to count those people who didn’t vote?! Barry took his name off the ballot. Barry is the one who said, “Screw you, Michigan voters”

    And now he’s going back to them just like he plans to do with KY.

  116. Obviously, I don’t know DNC rules…but I’d be interested which allocation plan(s) are supported, not supported by the rules…

  117. Michigan has a primary on Aug. 5th. Put up a ballot there.

  118. For what’s worth, commentator on TL’s live blog of Michigan reported that Chuck Todd said today is “big win” for Clinton.

    Shrug. Again it’s MSM — it’s MSNBC – and its third hand. But I thought I would bring it up.

  119. Levin is for Obama

  120. Well, I admit, Levin hasn’t said anything too screwy…I don’t know how I feel about NH and IA being #1. I’m open to both arguments…

  121. What is Levin talking about?

  122. anne–Re-vote now is bad idea. Media has convinced many that primary is over and Clinton has lost. At the time actual MI primary was held, there was less media influence over results. Can’t see benefit to Hillary at this point in having a re-vote.

  123. I think all Clinton wants is that those votes count in some form so she can go ahead in the popular vote. She can declare victory.

  124. And it also raises the “magic number” too

  125. But we aren’t about shewing primaries to help a certain candidate. We want all votes counted fair and square. The old “up or down” vote.

  126. Okay, I can’t even watch.

    The French Open is on and I’m listening to the tennis. I love the tennis. Oh, Martina is talking. I think she got a full-time gig on The Tennis Channel.

    In my love for the tennis, I will give Sen. Clinton some more money.

    And I’ll keep reading the live blogs.

    And then I have to go out to the new house and do some mroef raming. I managed to hit myself in the head with my framing nailer last week. Hurt like a mofo, but I felt worse about being so stupid.

    Oh, crap. The fab GF just turned on CSPAN.

    (Thanks, gary for the live blog. And RD—thank you for your nice place and Rico. Let us know about the $$$ and we’ll see what we can dig up for you both.)

  127. This is big — New Hampshire. Points out unfairness and hyprocrisy of committee.

    As I noted on TL, they will be damn sorry this meeting got televised. Even if most folks have left the film remains for You Tube.

  128. Roosevelt and Herman do not look too happy about NH being trashed…oh well….

  129. Ironically, it was the Kossacks who have constantly railed against Iowa and NH going first.

  130. Ticker just went across saying Clinton has stated it will be decided by next week. Anybody heard this?

  131. Carl Levin is adopting BTD’s line as summarized by RD earlier today.

  132. I think a simple rule would be that NO primaries or caucuses can occur prior to the calendar year of the election. That would be so clear cut.

  133. “his assertion that Obama’s supporters were urged to vote uncommitted is an admission that he campaigned there isn’t it?”

    No, this was a grassroots efforts by Obama supporters, but the campaign had no official ties to this movement. Conyers, and his wife began running radio commercials for Obama, and Edwards supporters to vote uncommitted.


  134. Kim – Yeah, this has been already reported. I guess the feeling is, all (or most) of the superdelegates will come out on June 4

  135. No Quarter is posting that Obama is in a “free fall”. DNC, WAKE UP!!!

  136. Alice Germond…blah, blah, blah…yeah, she is really uncommitted.

  137. Oh No!

    What happened to The Beloved One?

    Keep in mind, the RW Noise Machine is just warming up its engine.

    From Rassmussen:

    Obama’s numbers are 45% favorable and 53% unfavorable (see recent daily ratings). Those figures represent Obama’s lowest ratings of the year. His favorability ratings peaked at 56% in mid-February. Twenty-five percent (25%) have a Very Favorable opinion of Obama while 37% have a Very Unfavorable view.


  138. Alice Germond–we told people MI and FL primaries would not count and now trying to find way to make them count.

    Who does she support, anyone know? No endorsement, but…?

  139. Send this woman back to CA.

    How can someone make such a long trip with the sole purpose to embarrass herself?

  140. I wonder how the carpet showing of the Phleger video will affect people’s feelings about Obama?

    Hasn’t achieved Rev. Wright coverage (but I’ve stopped watching MSNBC), but it was on each of the local evening news and on the Big 3 broadcast news (oops, not sure about ABC–saw it on NBC and CBS).

  141. 69-59 is ridiculous.

  142. Any word from the ground in Puerto Rico?

  143. FYI, re: Obama campaign and Michigan, from CNN:

    “Democratic Rep. John Conyers and his wife, Detroit City Councilwoman Monica Conyers, said they would launch ads calling for “uncommitted” votes if there was no other way to register support for Barack Obama, The Detroit News reported last week.

    The option was also endorsed by Sen. Carl Levin of Michigan and state Democratic Party Chair Mark Brewer as a way for Democrats who do not support Clinton to participate in the vote.”

  144. Why didn’t Obama take out his name in FL?

    We are not here on earth to cater to Obama. When will that get through?

  145. FINALLY!!!

    Someone addresses the issue of voluntary name removal.

  146. Pfleger will hurt more. I would like to have seen McCain AND his wife come out against what he said about the former First Lady. That would have been good drama.

    Levin is just trying to defend his home state. But I think they should just turn the uncommitteds into super delegates.

  147. They cannot take Clinton’s votes away! It would be stealing votes.

  148. Go Harold!

  149. @MABlue—can’t remember details. Upshot: if he had removed his anme from the primary ballot, he could not be included on the GE ballot.

    As I recall. Your mileage may vary.

    If we award delegates based on people not voting for us, then I win and would like to invite everyone to my inaugural ball. Open bar. Dress: informal, but more than just duct tape over your nipples.

  150. Let’s remember that Levin did awesome work on the Terry Schiavo situation. He put some stuff in that insane resolution that really helped the husband in federal court. So I will have a good place for him.

  151. i don’t have anything against Sen. Levin…he’s doing what he has to do…

  152. Ickes has it right on MI .. imo .

    why not take 10 ? .. etc..

  153. absolutely. He’s trying to protect his state.

  154. People who respect themselves should not put their face on something fundamentally silly as this MI proposal.

  155. Levin gets to the heart of the cause. MI hates NH and IA position. But why “risk” the voters voice nearly every cycle?

    they have messed up since 1980 going early to the disservice of their voters. He should have told it all.

    ’80 Carter and Kennedy not on the ballot …(Gerry Brown wins his only state)
    ’84 Gore and Dukakis not on the ballot…(Laroche wins his only state)
    ’04 Threatened with 1/2 delegation
    ’08 Begging for reinstatement. Obama Edwards and others not on the ballot.

    So in 4 elections since 84 the candidate that got the most elected delegates nationallly was not even on the ballot in MI. Regardless of what is decided, how sad it that for their voters?

  156. Keep a party together to serve Obama.

  157. Again Obama voluntarily removed his name from the ballot.

  158. They’re all spouting unity, are they all Obamabots?

    They can unify the party but they’ll lose the voters, idiots.

  159. you can unify the party but it won’t be democratic. Or Democratic either, for that matter.

  160. Off topic, but something that should be noted:

    McClatchy Reports that Bush Donors are Giving Money to Obama…


    I note the probably real reasons of the big guys being the real force behind, this not the “little folks” taken with Obama…

  161. Again Obama voluntarily removed his name from the ballot.>>

    yes so did Carter Kennedy Gore Dukakis and Edwards for IA and nh. Hillary should have too and she might have won IA and not be in this situation.

  162. Didn’t he tried to remove his name on Florida? And it was denied?

  163. i think it was too late in fl so all names remained

  164. You can’t remove your name from the FL primary and be on the ticket in the general election. States rules. (If he could have, he likely would have removed his name from that primary ballot as well.)

  165. I’m certain that was big on the minds of Iowa caucus goers…who was on the ballot in MI.

  166. What a mess!! What the DNC created, the DNC needs to fix.

  167. Here comes the threat — AA/Youth matter more.

  168. Why even bother putting anyone’s name on a ballot?
    Let just list one: Uncommitted

    Then we can run exit polls and figure out who people REALLY meant to vote for.

    Yeah, democracy in action…..

    Can you believe these guys?

  169. Watching David Bonior makes me wonder whether Obama and Edwards had a deal all along.

  170. Harold Ickes must be a thorn in the side of all the other members. He is in full mode for Hillary! This is a guy who I bet plays Trivia Pursuit and nobody goes home until he has won.

  171. This really is who can play the bigger victim card…

    Our argument is simple…count them either 100% or 50%. That’s it’s.

  172. Someone has to call them on this . . .Obama campaign did block revotes.

    They said it twice now and no one has called it on it.

  173. This guy has no credibility.

  174. These are all also-ran politicians who support Obama. Now they think they can be “players” again. They know how strong Clinton is and she will be too strong a leader and their influece will be nothing.

  175. I have the volume down at this point. Funny, that Edward and Obama can join together and STILL not be able to stop Hillary.

  176. Ummm, do these guys realize how bad they look?

  177. Just FYI…Bonoir stepped down from the House to run for governor for Mich., and lost in the primary to the then-AG, who is now governor and supports Clinton

  178. How come they tried to shut Ickes up whilst they’re letting this guy go on and on?

  179. They want it all for Obama! There is no UNITY!

  180. Did they give Bonier more time than others — or is that just my impression because he was so bad.

  181. Oh, now Obama is anxious to engage with the voters of Michigan. Back in January, not so much.

    Bonior is such a phony.

  182. My understanding of the revote proposed in MI is that Obama supporters in the MI state legislature blocked the revote. I could be wrong but I thought this is what I read.

  183. democratic contest is hip-swiveling, Puerto Rican pop star Ricky Martin, who has thrown his considerable support behind Hillary Clinton . (sorry i thought PR is today. I guess it’s tomorrow).

  184. You go girl (why take your name off)

  185. Yes on caucuses!!!

  186. Love this woman.

  187. ok..here we go.. . The suck up and then the sucker punch.

  188. Count the votes as they are. Stop speculating about who the non-voters “intended” to vote for; that can be argued either way. The only democratic solution at this point is to count the votes.

  189. Attack, attack, attack…I mean, seriously…make your point w/o saying “Clinton.” We can make our points w/o saying “Obama”…

  190. He looks like a vote blocker. Sad little man.

  191. Then don’t seat either state, Bonior. Go to the convention with 48 if that’s what you want.

  192. “Honor the vote” Yes!

  193. What’s your fear? You can’t bully those uncommitted delegates into supporting you?

  194. It is *pouring* here in DC. massive thunderstorm.

    What in the *world* is this hang up on protecting the integrity or intent of those who did not vote?

  195. Integrity of those who didn’t vote?????

  196. Oh, Jeez, here we go! Bonior, like other Obama spokespeople is standing up for those who didn’t vote.

  197. You know…I can find 1,000 or whatever number of people in Ohio that didn’t vote in the 2004, so I guess we should just install him as president then, right?

  198. Install Kerry, I mean…

  199. See how big we are? It’s clear this is about doing whatever they can do to get Obama in and it has nothing to do with the voters.

  200. Yes, respect the integrity of the vote….AND the voters.

    Or if you’re going to play with the numbers and give away delegates based on how you think people would have voted if they had the chance, then let’s adjust those delegate counts in the caucus states.

  201. Me thinks Hillary has a good chance to win this. The voter must come first.

  202. Obama, Obama, Obama, Obama

  203. What would Sandra Day O’Connor say about the intent of those who didn’t bother to vote??? She could barely tolerate people who couldn’t understand how to read a ballot.

  204. So… let’s never vote at all and just have the parties guess how many people would vote and choose a candidate that way from now on??? Ridiculous!

  205. I love Tina

  206. Yeah, Tina.

    But if Obama seizes party they probably will cancel 2012

  207. Tina Flournoy rocks!


  209. well according to this – I hate to post this link but .. there has been a decision reached on FLA .


  210. “Let’s just stick to questions here” = “Shut up Tina”


  211. oh well , nothing knew here for us .

    Only thing new is that what we ‘knew’ – is confirmed .

  212. Briana….nothing wrong with that. I mean, they should give the superdelegates 100%. Obviously we want 100%, but…ya know…

  213. This is going way better than I hoped for. I pray they do the right thing and count all votes as they were cast.

  214. You will NEVER hear a high-level Obama supporter swear to work their heart out for Hillary. Not one will.

  215. Flawed strategy — no kidding. Except it’s worked so well for Obama. He’s been costing on it for 4 months!

  216. You are so right katiebird!

  217. Gary: I am going to start a new thread. Migrate over there when you can.

  218. I think we must accept that there is a full delegation with 1/2 votes. Of course, I’m not sure how you count uncommitteds in a popular vote total. I think we all can see the problem with that. But we will have our moral authority. And Obama will be Bush 2000.

  219. Briana, I won’t read Huffington Post.

    But if committee screws around and penalize voters, they will look like damn fools. Sure press might cover up but people are watching . . . You Tube exists . . . and new blogs. Not to mention the Republicans.

  220. Well Blanchard is telling it straight. Obama camp must be hating this.

  221. I am SO sick of UNITY being used as a bludgeon to enforce the pro-Obama stance.

  222. O.K.. I confess – I didn’t read the huffblow piece – i am so bad .. ;( .. so they sat 100% with 1/2 their vote ??

  223. Is it just me, or does the Obama camp lack a clear case for FL & MI?

  224. There’s a new thread up at the top!

  225. Please call C- Span 202 585 3885 for Clinton Supporters re: right of Florida and MI to be counted.
    Real idiot Obama supporters are calling in and talking gibberish, like MABlue says they don’t have a clear case !

  226. What a clear picture of each candidate emerges from the lips of their presenters: – one if all for himself, his rights, his votes.

    The other is for the voters, their right to vote and have their vote counted.

    Just too bad most of the voters in this country will not see this presentation. They will just get 20 seconds of reconsituted crap from the Obamamedia.

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