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Wednesday: The Pit and the Pendulum

There is a tiny, almost imperceptible sign that just maybe momentum is swinging back our way. It looks like all of our warnings about the party about to go off of the cliff may be having an effect. Kevin Rodriguez, a superdelegate from the US Virgin Islands and member of the DNC, was originally a Clinton superdelegate. Then, during Obamania, he moved over to Obama’s column. Yesterday, He moved back to Clinton. Brave man. I hope others follow as well. That doesn’t sound to me like something you do in the pit of despair when you think your candidate chance of winning are nonexistent.

Also, for those of you who enjoy Fresh Air with Terry Gross, she recently interviewed James Webb. He comes off as prickly but what he says to her about his commitment to social justice and the working class may be an indication of his leanings though he’s not the kind of man you want to back into a corner. It’s clear that he will weigh his options carefully but from this interview, he must be pretty steamed about Obama writing off the working class in Appalachia. No, I’m betting that did not go over well at all with Webb.

For example, here is a brief excerpt from Webb’s new book, A Time To Fight:

But the one connecting dot in all of my experiences has been a passion for history and a desire to learn from it. Not the enumeration of monarchs and treaties that so often passes for academic knowledge, but the surging vitality from below that so often impels change and truly defines cultures. The novelist Leo Tolstoy wrote vividly about war and peace, showing us the drawing rooms and idiosyncrasies of Russia’s elite. But in reality, he was telling us that great societal changes are most often pushed along by tsunami-deep impulses that cause the elites to react far more than they inspire them to lead. And this, in my view, is the greatest lesson of political history. Entrenched aristocracies, however we may want to define them, do not want change; their desire instead is to manage dissent in a way that does not disrupt their control. But over time, under the right system of government, a free, thinking people has the energy and ultimately the power to effect change.


I can’t wait to see who he endorses. Will he stick to his guns and insist on respect for his Scots-Irish kin or is he more concerned with foreign policy and Hillary’s more forceful approach? Here’s a possible clue: during the interview, Webb says he considers himself to be in the mold of late senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan, who was Hillary’s mentor and whose senate seat she took in 2000. We shall see what he does but I recall several weeks ago that Harry Reid said he knew of at least one of the remaining senators who was ready to committ and he implied that all he had to do was say the word to trigger a slew more. Could he be talking about Webb?

I thoughtlessly volunteered to chaperone Brook’s field trip today so I will be incommunicado until later this afternoon. Yep, a whole day in the company of genteel and well behaved 12 year olds at a minor league baseball game is just chock full of teachable moments but this time, I won’t be able to order a beer with my peanuts. *sigh*

119 Responses

  1. We must promise when Clinton gets the nom. to never taunt these superdelegates for their wishy-washy behavior.

    The same Webb who’s being heralded as a frontrunner for Obama Veep?

  2. someday someone is going to draw a line in the sand for Obama’s unspeakable rudeness. Could that person be Webb. He is a stewer steamer.

  3. I wonder how Webb could endorse Obama after Obama so completely dissed Appalachia like he did.

  4. Redstar: He said in the interview that he never thought of being anyone’s VP and he liked being in the senate. I suspect that rumor was floated by Obama operatives. They would probably very much like to get Webb on their side. But Webb is stubbornly pro working class. I get the impression that Obama’s snubbing of them really rubbed him the wrong way and I would not like to be on Webb’s $%*# list.

  5. Webb wrote a book about the Scotts-Irish in America. I can’t see how he could endorse Obama. Even though he’s pretty conservative, he has been talking about social justice all along. I think that is one of the main reasons he switched parties–it wasn’t just about the war. He talked about the inequities in the economic system when he was running for the Senate.

  6. Regarding Webb’s book on the Scotts-Irish, I have always wanted to read it, since those are my people too. After the WV primary, I looked on Amazon and his book was out of stock. I guess I wasn’t the only one who was interested in what was happening.

  7. Riverdaughter,

    I hope you enjoy your day with the adolescents. Wishing you nice weather.

  8. I’m always looking for any, any sign. However, we have been teased and disappointed by so many before. Hillary hasn’t been just stabbed in the back by her friends and colleagues she’s been stabbed right in the face and then they gauged out her eyes and left her for dead. Yet she continued to keep going.

  9. Good Morning Riverdaughter.

    I’m just hoping Jim Web doesn’t endorse Obama. I’m so shaken over some of the past endorsements though, I’m not counting on anything.

  10. Heehee. Go, Patriots, go!!

  11. BFF: 😛

  12. Wait, that didn’t work right, :-p

  13. “I thoughtlessly volunteered to chaperone Brook’s field trip today so I will be incommunicado until later this afternoon. Yep, a whole day in the company of gentile and well behaved 12 year olds at a minor league baseball game is just chock full of teachable moments but this time, I won’t be able to order a beer with my peanuts. *sigh*”

    So Riverdaughter, are you spending the day with “gentile” and well behaved 12 year olds or “gentle” and well behaved 12 year olds? Just curious

  14. LOL!!! Too funny. I will fix that. Damn, I need an editor.

  15. Neither candidate can get to the “magic number” (whatever it may be) between now and the final primaries on June 3rd with pledged delegates alone. Therefore, the SuperDs will get to decide who will be our nominee.

    The vote of the SuperDs isn’t “official” and doesn’t truly count until the convention, especially since they can switch their vote at any time.

    Obviously, SuperD Kevin Rodriguez’s switch back to Clinton yesterday proves that.

    There’s no telling how many current Obama Supers might wise up between now and the end of August. And it is perfectly within THE ROOLZ for them to do so.

    For our sake, Hillary must go all the way to the convention.

  16. There are very few profiles in courage in DC including Jim Webb and Ohio Senator Sherrod Brown who has stayed on the sidelines even though Hillary is winning the group of people he always champions. His wife, Connie Shultz, a columnist for the Plain Dealer, and completely independent of Sherrod, wrote a column about a month ago about the sexism in the campaign.

  17. I will not get my hopes up. I do NOT need anything to support Hillary. I am supporting her until she says it is over.

    I caution people not to play the expectation game. I am in NC, and was really involved in the campaign here. I had built my expectations up so much, I was crushed when she didn’t get closer, and it took me a few days to get the fighting spirit back.

    What I realized from that experience was that I believe in Hillary, and know that she is the best candidate. Therefore, I will do what I can to get her elected. However, expectations will only cause me to feel down when they are met, so I am avoiding them absolutely.

    That said, Webb WOULD be a great get for her.

  18. The problem with Super D’s is many want to be POTUS too. When BO goes down in flames, that means 2012 is open. If Hill wins, that means it’s not .

    But it’s means a great deal that they still aren’t endorsing! If Obama had enough Supers to end this, he and his handlers would. The fact that the Obama press is still making a horrible example of Hillary means they don’t have enough.

    I am rejecting not just Obama. I am rejecting the entire Dem elite who have enabled Bush for years, cheated and pushed Obama down our throats, and piled on Hillary and Bill Clinton as they were shockingly savaged in the press.

    It’s the total Dem elite package I am rejecting.
    And my vote is off the table. It’s Hillary or nothing

    Hillary 08

  19. Riverdaughter,

    I assumed you meant genteel, as in “refined, well bred, and polite.”

  20. I have also endlessly heard that Webb is not much of a feminist and could really be a slap in the face for women if he supports/runs with Obama…What do you all think of that?

  21. Jeralyn has a great post up about Obama’s many confabulations. She thinks he doesn’t really know his family that well and his campaign has looked up the family info. Jerelyn discovered another “exaggeration.” Obama said his grandfather enlisted the day after Pearl Harbor. Turns out it was really 6 months after Pearl Harbor. This is going to dog him forever if he is the nominee.


  22. Webb was one of the military people arguing in the 80s that allowing women to serve was detrimental to the Military. I believe, He has changed his position since then, but I don’t think he has become a feminist now.

  23. BB: That’s what I meant. That is what they most certainly are not. As I understand it, the last time they went on a filed trip was to see A Christmas Carol down in Princeton and they misbehaved so badly that there was collective recess detention for a month. Brook, who is normally a ringleader was an unusually mature theatre goer for that one and she even said they were bad, talking so loudly during the performance that she told them to shut up so she could hear. She really resented the group detention but she planned a couple of jailbreaks in response. The little bugger always has been sort of a Houdini, managing to get out of any restraint system I’ve ever put her in.

  24. Re Webb: People change. He wrote his paper back in the late 70’s. Women had only been studying at the service academies for a few years back then. All they needed was a chance to demonstrate their abilities.
    There are a lot of good ol’ boys in WV, KY, PA, OH, AR and TN who have watched Hillary get better and better over the last several months and now think she’s worth their support. Webb could very well be one of them.
    Or not. The guy is fiercely independent.

  25. If Webb were Obama’s VP, if he is the nominee, Webb would dwarf Obama in every significant category. Webb would absolutely dwarf Obama, making him look even more underserving and under-qualified.

  26. bostonboomer,

    What will dog him for the rest of the race, in my opinion, is just the sheer volume of exaggerations he has created to pander to different groups.

    Remember, he claimed he was conceived during the march on Selma, only to find out that Selma was years before his birth? That one was for African Americans.

    Remember he said Kennedy helped bring his Father to America from Kenya? That turned out to be false, but he got to wear the mantle of the Kennedys for a while.

    Remember how he said he was a Professor of Law?

    The Auschwitz pander and now the Pearl Harbor lie are just more bricks in the wall of his serial lies and exagerrations.

    What the hell does a “community organizer” do actually?

    Anyone? Anyone?

  27. I hope everyone has cancelled any subscriptions to Newsweek, Time or any other blantally biased magazine. Also i assume no one watches KO or hardly anyone else on MSNBC, or NBC for that matter. Remember the bottomline is the MSM’s cheif concern. Oprah’s ratings are down; I wonder why???

  28. DRII: There aren’t too many pairings with Obama that *wouldn’t* make him look like a featherweight. Oh, Claire McCaskill, she might make him look like he has gravitas.

  29. Exactly Riverdaughter…

    Hillary would also dwarf the man as VP…

  30. DRII: I cancelled my Time and Newsweek subscription the day they put him on the cover as the “nominee”. When Newsweek hired Karl Rove as a commentator that also added to my disgust. And as much as I like Jim Webb I am not holding my breath. This race has been much too fickle to predict who supports who. If he chooses a female it would be too much of a mockery to even consider.

  31. I am still rooting for Obama/Richardson. The guy is such a loser that it would be entertaining to see him in a vp debate. Of course, McCaskill would be great too. The two of them together would have one senate term. RD- I must agree w/ Brook regarding group punishments. I went to Catholic school and the sisters were very big on group punishment. They must have thought that it would make us Christ like , with we took on the sins of the world (or at least the class).. I do believe that the injustice of the time led me to become a lawyer.

  32. Honora: Funny you should mention that. I’ve noticed that her public school is getting more and more authoritarian even going so far as detention for writing little notes to other students on the desks with pencils. Like that can’t be erased? Students were encouraged to rat on the culprits and class was suspended until someone fessed up. It is bizarre.

  33. Honora, Sebelius would also be a “great” pick for BO. Her droning response to the SOTU address is enough to put Ambien out of business.

  34. Scotch-drinking, baseball-watching mothers of tweens unite! Truman and Quincy are fierce young Hillary supporters against a tide of young Obamabots in school. I’ll bet Brook is quite the fighter herself. 🙂

  35. Mawm,

    That’s what I meant. The many many confabulations (and the daily bloopers) will provide the Republicans with endless material to demonstrate Obama’s phoniness.

    And here’s another one I found in the comments at Talk Left. It turns out that Obama’s great uncle–you know, the one who liberated a camp at Buchenwald (not Auschwitz)? Obama said he was in the 89 the Infantry division (that would be the Army). It turns out he was actually in the NAVY. So what was he doing at Buchenwald. The second link is to the History Channel discussion boards where they are researching this.

    This is going to get really ugly when the press starts covering it…



  36. Hi everyone,

    I just wanted to thank you all very much for signing my petition. I sent it off to Howard Dean yesterday with about 245 signatures. (I’m now up to 286!) I think I will keep sending it every couple of weeks until the Convention, because I’m hoping our girl will stay in until then! 🙂

    Here is the email I sent to him:

    Dear Dr. Dean,

    This is a true and impassioned plea from a lifelong Democrat. I simply cannot vote for Barack Obama this year, should he be nominated despite the clear and obvious preference of millions of core Democratic voters for Hillary Clinton. And neither, apparently, can more than 240 other Democrats who signed this petition.

    Barack Obama does not stand for Democratic values. He does not want Michigan and Florida to be counted unless the count can be rigged to favor him. He has used race-baiting and sexism to assassinate the character of Senator Clinton, a true and loyal Democrat. His lead in pledged delegates is illusory and largely due to caucus wins in red states. Do you think we don’t know this? Do you think we don’t understand how the DNC and the Democratic Party has been conspiring to throw the Clintons out of the Party? These low-information, bitter, racist, vaginal, periodically down, likeable enough voters understand far better than Obama’s starry-eyed supporters do. These tactics are NOT ACCEPTABLE and will lose us the White House ONCE AGAIN.

    Please, Dr. Dean, I know you are a man of good heart and strong liberal values. Please do not throw America under the bus. We cannot survive four years of John McCain as President. Nominate the winning candidate, the one who is strong enough to wipe the floor with McCain, the one who will hit the ground running and implement all the progressive values I thought the Democratic Party stood for. We need a new FDR, and Hillary Clinton can be that person.

    It’s not too late. We can usher in a new era for America in 2009. Or, we can still be living our long national nightmare. How many more in poverty? How many more dead in two endless wars? How many more homeless? How many more sick and dying because they didn’t have health care?

    You, Dr. Dean, can end Bush’s Reign of Error. If only you and the Democratic Party can find their spines.

    Please let this petition be your guide. You are vastly, VASTLY underestimating the Democratic antipathy towards Barack Obama. I pray that you may turn from this path to disaster.

    Thank you for your time.

    Riverdaughter, you are amazing and your site is a treasure. I look forward to visiting it every day. Thank you for all you and the other Conflucians do.

  37. Mawm,

    I wrote post awhile back on Barack’s community organizing career. Here it is:


  38. Just picked which t-shirt I liked and sent Hillary some more money. I feel good on days I donate. The new t-shirts are awesome.

  39. More from the History Channel boards:

    Oops caught him in another lie! The 89th Division did NOT LIBERATE BUCHENWALD!

    It was the 6th Armored and 83rd Infantry Divisions that liberated the camp! (wikpedia article on Buchenwald)

    In fact wasn’t the 89th Division that went to the Elbe with the Ninth Army? (that actually could be an interesting story there! Oh well)



    Obama is worse than Reagan for making stuff up. The big question: is he worse than Bush?

  40. I think I may have to gather all this information together into a post so that we can have a record of all of Barry’s confabulations.

  41. bostonboomer,

    I read your post. Doesn’t sound like his “community organizing” amounted to much, but he did learn how to “agitate” well.


  42. Annetoo, on May 28th, 2008 at 8:23 am Said:

    The problem with Super D’s is many want to be POTUS too. When BO goes down in flames, that means 2012 is open. If Hill wins, that means it’s not .

    I don’t think so. If Obama wins and complies with his handlers on what they put him in there for (dirty energy) and bungles everything else, Democrats will become hopeless and apathetic again, and so the R’s will take it back in 2012.

  43. Well, I am disappointed that BO did 18 points better than Hill in Idaho. OTOH, since it’s supposed to be all over, she held her own, and it’s funny Ron Paul got more votes than BO.

    On Webb, he should endorse Hills because she represents the very people he so eloquently wrote about. But his state went big time for BO, so it would not be easy to come out for Hillary.

    Ok, so, I read in the comments over at TM, Carville said he and the other supers are pissed that BO pushed the RFK story to them and the press. They are really pissed. He said this thing isn’t over, and BO blew it big time by going there.

    Also, DNC thinks the protracted primary is why they haven’t raised any money. Come on, are they really so obtuse? Rank and file middle aged women write those donation checks, for the most part, and they have had it with the DNC. That’s my theory anyway. Good luck fundraising from the Obamacans, am I right?

  44. Plus if it is such a machine, wouldn’t there be Axelrod extortion like against poor John Lewis to prevent any competition for his second term?

  45. Riverdaughter: Great find on the Rodriguez switch. Is this the first instance of a SD changing or returning to Clinton?

    bostonboomer: Ooooh, please do that! However, it might be an extraordinarily time-consuming task.

  46. Also, DNC thinks the protracted primary is why they haven’t raised any money. Come on, are they really so obtuse? Rank and file middle aged women write those donation checks, for the most part, and they have had it with the DNC.

    Melanie, you might point that out to Dean in the petition upthread….Madamab, you should post that petition link daily around the intertubes.

    This delegate/superdelegate contact form now works:

  47. I em’d them and they are really pissy about being em’d. I read that it did more harm than good, to contact them about supporting Hillary. I don’t know either way.

  48. Mawm,

    As Katiebird has repeatedly pointed out, Obama has never really even had a full time job. The community organizing is what he emphasizes, and basically all it was was an internship after he finished his undergrad degree.

  49. Kim,

    Is your “friend” in the party a superdelegate? Does he know any superdelegates?

  50. boston, that is what really riles me about the supers who are nominating Obama. WTH happened to the meritocracy? I can not understand how so many otherwise reasonable adults can think no prior job experience is no biggie in a presidential candidate.

  51. Melanie,

    Sadly, the only explanation I can come up with is that the people who are supporting him are doing so in order to get in on the Chicago style corruption that he will bring into office with him. How is that any different from GW Bush?

  52. No, but he does get to go to the convention. Our big SD’s in SC are Donald Fowler, a former Democratic Chairman and his wife, Carol. Donald is a Clinton friend and is supporting Hillary, I believe his wife is supporting Obama. I know that they have split, forever political.

  53. Kim,
    I have emailed SDs, and have never been told that it is pushing them to Obama. The responses I have gotten have all been appreciative, but the message is that they are waiting until the end of the primaries to decide.

    If some SD says that emails from supporters have driven them to Obama, I would think they were in the tank for him already.

    Saying the emails have pushed someone to Obama is about the stupidest reason I’ve heard to support Obama, and I can’t believe that any of them would write such a thing in an email to a Clinton supporter.

  54. * Final Update: Obama in NM Results in Excuses, 3 Pinocchios, and a Rebuff from Vets?

    It seems to me that some vets (many vets?) actually rebuffed Obama’s announced visit to the Bataan Memorial, hence the relocation….


  55. No one should stop writing SDs. That is a way to try to suppress our voices.

    Keep writing them in a respectful manner. Do not stop.

  56. Boston Boomer, that would be a GREAT post. Someone in comments last night, I think it was the great mawm made an off-the-top-of-my-head list of Obama’s fibs and it was kinda amazing.

    Esp since s/he linked the fibs to the particular time and place that BO made them, pointing out what bald-faced panders they were. His fibs are not simply the sleep-deprived gaffes that everyone can make, or even run-of-the-mill exaggerations — they are explicit and cynical attempts to connect with particular groups of voters by LYING.

  57. I just know some of them were really snippy to me. I think I got about 10 responses. One was wonderful and she said not to worry, Hillary would be our nominee. I kept my fingers crossed that she knew something I didn’t.

  58. Does Hannity have The Michelle Obama Whitey Tape?

    Sean Hannity On The Tape

  59. Right, but I know what Kim is talking about. I know people who have written the supers on why they support Hillary and are uncomfortable with Obama, to have the super right back and say well because of your insults about Obama, I’m now going to endorse him type stuff.

  60. Melanie,
    My point, though, is that if some SD says that, I would imagine they already supported BO. Getting emails is NOT a valid reason to support a candidate.

  61. I don’t think Webb would go for the VP spot-he loathes campaigning and he’s happy as Senator. He barely won that seat and don’t think he wants to tempt fate running for something else.

    The last thing I heard him say locally was very noncommital abou who he would choose. I like to think he’s so into the Scots-Irish thing that he would have to go with their overwhelming pick-Hillary! But I just have to leave the SD worries to the Clintons-they know alot more about how to handle them than I do. I know they’re doing everything they can.

  62. Beware of Webb. ABC News had this Jake Tapper blog piece that showed Webb making excuses for Obama’s pitiful showing in Appalachia. Webb defended Obama, saying that affirmative action was the reason why (white) working class voters didn’t choose Obama over Clinton! He went on to say that he was sure Obama could win over Appalachia in November.

    As soon as I read that, I knew something is up. I wouldn’t be surprised if Webb came out for Obama–at all.

  63. According BTD, the fix is already in at the DNC. They are claiming that it would be against the roolz to seat the FL and MI delegataions as is, because the roolz say that they must be punished by 50%. So it sounds like they are going to give in just enough so Barry the sure loser is still ahead.

  64. federal judge throws out voter lawsuit to seat FL delegates.

  65. Speaking of pendulum swings, here’s a little piece from our esteemed Boston Globe (cough) with the title…uh…what?…did I read that right? No, that can’t be right…. the title is “Questions of How Obama Can Redo the Map.” Wow, could the Globe be wrong about the Chosen One? Heavens forfend. There’s the requisite amount of backpeddling, “on the other hand”ing and eye witness commentary about how Colorado MAY (yeah, right) go blue, but the fact remains – they screwed up. Now they have to live with it or him. Of course, no mention of Hillary and how she crushes McCain and Obama in the EC. That’s for another edition in July.


  66. Elixir,

    I cancelled my subscription to the Globe in 2004, because of their Kerry bashing. They’ll take Obama apart when there is no long any chance for the Democrats to nominate a winner….

  67. Okay the supers that responded were:
    1. Moretta Bosley, Clinton-KY
    2. Jason Rae, he says Obama is the nominee.
    3. Pat Waak, said we must come together.
    4. William Lynch, Obama
    5. Mark Bryant, together on the ticket.

    I know I got some other responses, one directed me to her website and she was at Obama HQ. The other was, I believe, Hispanic and she said Hillary would be the nominee. I lost those em’s.

  68. Mawm, you are probably right, they were already in the tank for Obama. It just really distressed me that they were so blatantly uncaring when a speaking to a voter. William Lynch actually said to me in his email, after I said female voters felt they had been disenfranchised and that they had been insulted by the blatant sexismm, (not my actual words, but something to that effect), “Well, I will be sure to pass that on, that a woman in NC feels bad, to Barack and Hillary.”

    I wanted to pitch an old fashioned fit and kick him in the shins. It just felt so condescending.

  69. Don’t trust these politicians like Webb. Why do we assume anyone will support HRC at this point? I really hope she goes as a third party candidate. After how she has been treated, she has every reason to stick it to them.

  70. BB: I’ve been off again, on again with the Globe. It really does suck but what else do we have? I also like the Op Eds, Joan Vennochi has been respectful of Hillary and doesn’t seem to favor Obama. You gotta find the positive stuff wherever you can get it. I’m going to watch Lou Dobbs tonight, I didn’t realize he’s taking on Obama – I love it!

  71. With $25 mill in the bank for the general and these new and cool t-shirts being made up…is anyone else thinking what I am thinking????? 3rd party????

  72. The way that the current Democratic “leadership” has treated the Clintons is all I need to know about the them and the party they have hijacked. It was a party of which I have been associated before I could read. I was a Young Democrat in high school, having worked on many campaigns in a woman’s capacity (always for men). I was a page in the State Senate and House of Representatives, all men: “Hey, girl, go get me a cup of coffee and a paper.”

    To allow a former President (and the party’s only winner since the mid-70s) and a hardworking, respected Senator who won almost every Republican county in her reelection to be trashed, and accused of being racists by her Democratic candidate (as are her supporters), accused of promoting assassination of a candidate, and not standing up for women by allowing our first serious woman candidate to be demeaned by the fact that she is a woman is more than I would have ever believed.

    Of course, it is the current leadership. The same leadership under the woman Pelosi who is pushing a lot of buttons for me.

    It is not as if her candidate is qualified. His association with the Chicago machine is very troubling. The fact that Daley’s ad man Axelrod is running a cynical campaign in which the man in the thick of influence peddling and who takes money from lobbyists every which way, is presented as the pure candidate. This is to bring in the idealistic youth vote, but will turn them off when Obama’s true nature is revealed by the predominately Republican media.

    Robert Kennedy, Jr. is addressing our deplorable media. It is the biggest danger to our democracy:

  73. Ben,

    Do we know what BHO has in the bank for the GE? Can he carry over his unused primary dollars to the GE fund?

  74. I met Webb when he was running for the Senate in Virginia. And not just as someone who shakes his hand in a line but one-on-one. I was introduced by someone inside his campaign and listened as they talked “shop.”

    And it is my very strong suspicion that Barky is not Webb’s first choice. When asked by George Stephanopoulos whom he supported in light of Obama’s overwhelming Virginia victory, he smacked down the notion he HAD to vote for Barky;. He said if the party didn’t want superdelegates to use their independent judgment, they wouldn’t have given them the option.. He intended to vote for the person whom in his opinion had the best chance to win the presidency.

    At the time I thought to myself, “Oh yeah, this guy is a Hillary supporter.”

  75. Slightly off-topic, but NQ has a post about the exodus of lifelong Democrats:

    I wonder who at the DNC gets to open all the survey envelopes? I sure went to town with mine, and included a photocopy of the document showing my new Unaffiliated status. And I wonder what they’re doing will all the shoes??

  76. Someone is matching contributions to Hillary’s campaign until midnight Saturday.

  77. I know and I made mine this morning. The t-shirts are great.

  78. ben–that’s an interesting thought. My partner and I have had some issues with donations and going over the limit. I’ve been trying to fix it by having the donation in my name, but since we are not legally married it is confused. (another annoyance of not being able to marry). Anyway I made it clear I wanted the money to be used in the primary because I did not want it being used in the GE if Hillary is not the nominee. The guy said that the money will NOT go to Obama. So maybe they are making plans….

  79. Mimi Schaeffer — you’re in VA, right?

    Isn’t Webb’s support from Appalachia overstated? I seem to recall that Harris Miller actually won several of the border counties in the Dem primary. In the general, Allen won SW VA except for perhaps two counties.


  81. Kim: I am with you all the way!

  82. ALERT! Local Paper Actually Allows Vets to Say Something Not Fawning about Obama Visit!


  83. @ElitistJohn: Who said he was a hero? How’s Casey or McClurkin working out for you?

  84. The list grows If you, your group, or blog will not support Obama in the General Election please let us know at Democrats Against Obama

  85. I think Hillary Clinton would do incredibly well as a third party candidate. If you look at the votes, she has gotten nearly 18 million votes in the primary. If you look at the most successful independent in recent history, Ross Perot, he received 19 million in the GE, or nearly 20% of the vote. I think Hillary could do much better. In that scenario it would be Obama who would be the spoiler. It might help get to the post partisan land they dream of to have a president independent of party corruption. I hope they are keeping that option open.

  86. Lance Mannion takes a big risk: He writes a letter to a prominent member of the creative class.

    How know what can happen when one of these uneducated Clinton supporters writes anything other than his/her name; Bad orthography, poorly formulated sentences, illogical thinking and so on.

    Witness the embarrassment:

    Dear Mr Atrios…

    Esteemed sir,

    In reply to your recent post may I humbly submit that:

    Getting people to agree to a rule change, no matter how “drastic,” is not cheating.

    At this point it looks like Barack Obama is going to win the nomination on the votes of the superdelegates who mostly have and will come to their decisions in their own metaphorical equivalents of smoke-filled rooms, in many cases “overturning the outcome of the primary process” in their own states—Ted Kennedy, for example—and in other cases trying to short-circuit the primary process entirely by announcing their decisions early in the hopes of convincing Hillary to quit the race well before it was clear she would lose.

    Perhaps you were non-aligned for the first few months of the campaign, but you have pretty clearly jumped on the Obama bandwagon of late.

    And it’s not simply the case that 15 to 16 million people don’t like Barack Obama or like Hillary “for whatever reasons”—as opposed to all those Obama supporters for whom liking has nothing to do with their decisions; their votes are based entirely on their having read all the position papers and come to the only rational conclusions, neverminding their personal feelings about either candidate.

    It’s the case that millions of people think she would be the better President.

    Almost exactly the same number as think that Barack Obama would be better.

    Those people don’t understand why their votes should be dismissed out of hand as if they mattered as little as the votes Mike Gravel’s going to get in the fall.

    The rule change probably isn’t going to happen and the super-delegates are not going do anything but the politically easiest and most expedient thing which is to go with the flow, but all those millions of Hillary supporters can’t be expected to know this the way whip-smart bloggers who have backed a winner know it.

    Here’s what has me “rather puzzled.” Why can’t Obama supporters wait another couple of weeks? Why don’t they see it might be a good thing for their guy if those millions of Democrats who voted for Hillary Clinton get to see that she lost fair and square instead of having been bullied out of the race by wankers in the Media, Democratic insiders working out of their smoke-filled rooms, and smug, self-congratulatory Obama-supporting bloggers (I refer, of course, not to yourself, but to those who have been most definitely not non-aligned all along and have been pushing for her to get out since February)?

    Members of the creative class have written so often about how Clinton is trying to “cheat”, I forgot what “cheating” meant. Does it mean looking for a way the votes of 2.3 mil Dems?

  87. If she decides to run as a third party candidate I will do everything in my power from my little corner of the world to make it happen. I can no more envision voting for Obama than I did for George Bush, that is how much I have come to dislike this candidate.

    How can the DNC and the supers stand so firmly behind a man who has no administrative or legislative experience to speak of other than what was crafted to make him appear viable? How can they continue to support a candidate who has only served in the senate for a scant 3 years, one of which had him running for president? How can they also continue backing someone who, as katiebird keeps mentioning, has never held a full time job? What is it that we don’t see that would make them assured that he is the man who can solve the huge problems that will await the next president in 2009 based on a resume as thin as tissue paper? Why is the media so complicit in their overall lack of vetting?

    I am not a conspiracist by nature but I am beginning to feel that there is more afoot here than we know. Why is this party more than willing to go down in flames with this unprepared candidate for the highest office in the land? I do not see a rationale to support this fallacy that he is The One.

  88. Pat:

    Forget it. Clinton win NEVER run as a 3rd party candidate. The Clintons love the Democratic Party and have worked for 40 years to build it and make it successful.

    Democrats have betrayed her many times but she will not respond in kind.

  89. MABlue: You are probably correct in your assessment. I just hate to see her defeated by this vacous candidate who does not measure up to her.

  90. Okay, I just found out why the Dems called yesterday. It seems they are holding a little street talk type rally downtown. They are stopping people and asking them to answer a questionnaire comparing things Bush said and things McCain said, to see if they know the difference. I stopped and someone I had never met before started asking me the questions.

    There was who said, “Bomb, bomb,bomb Iran? I really don’t know that much about the economy, and ‘We could stay in Iraq a hundred years.”

    I must have done okay because he asked me after the test if I was voting democrat since we could not stand four more years of the same.

    My response was only if the votes are counted and Hillary is on the ticket. He then said, but you know that can’t happen now. So will you vote Obama?!?!?

    So, is the fix in? Is this a done deal? Was this done in a back room somewhere? This is still small town, but it is the biggest city in SC and they are saying it is done.

    I asked him since he wanted me to give Obama my vote, could he cite any legislation Obama passed, or how many present votes he had cast or how many times he had pushed the ?wrong? button. He couldn’t so I told him and then I told him, I may vote democrat Congress and McCain president. He said he had heard there was a small spattering of women threatening this, but he could not believe we would go through with it.

  91. They can say what they want, it doesn’t make it true.

  92. Isn’t it incredibly difficult to get on the ballot in many states as a 3rd party candidate. For example, in NY, I think the rules are very arcane. I want her to do it but is it even feasible??

  93. You can rest assured that I asked a lot of questions, the first being, why would the party expect me to vote for a candidate who is not truly legitimate, since all the votes had not been counted? And, why would I be expected to just happily fall into place? And why would my vote count toward an unelectable candidate?

  94. I think is is hard for some parties, but didn’t Nader get on almost all the states ballots?

  95. OH believe me we will go through with it. Let me give you a sample of the names of people I know who voted Hillary but will go McCain or anyone but O in the Fall: greg, carol, jennifer, margaret, nancy, chris, ron, jay, bob, marjorie, leslie, kirk…and these are just people i personally know who aren’t that politically active.

  96. Kim, that’s awesome that you did that!

    And I don’t believe the interviewer. I think he has seen MANY people say the same thing you did.

    Otherwise, why would they be doing a street poll?

    If Obama’s already “won,” why are they “making nice” when we weren’t “needed to win a general election?”

    If Obama’s already “won,” why is he campaigning in PR?

    Let’s keep up the fight – NO to Obama, write in Chelsea’s Mama!

  97. Ben, yes, but if there is an organzied effort a la Ross Perot, she can be on the ballot as an Independent or a write-in.

    I know that in FL, candidates must submit paperwork/application so that the votes can be tallied and counted for Electoral votes.

    It’s going to take a lot of effort, but look at what’s happened in the past couple of weeks, FDR & Count Our Votes, the Clinton Supporters Count Too, it’s a massive grassroots movement.

    Hard? Yeah, but definitely not impossible.

  98. “He then said, but you know that can’t happen now. So will you vote Obama?!?!?”

    This is just psychological warfare.

    They are trying to intimidate people into abandoning Hillary before the last primaries.

  99. He looked at me like I was a troll when I asked him how he could stand there and ask me to vote Obama, when he, himself, could not name one piece of legislation Obama had passed or answer any other questions about him.

  100. Well I told him we were not a spattering of doddering middle aged sweeties, but a movement that was to be reckoned with, and to be prepared.

  101. IT FELT GREAT!!!!!!

  102. Kim – they sound like Scientologists.

    And a non-apology apology: No offense to Scientologists, but as I live in Scientology HQ land, I see eerie similarities between the Obama Campaign and L. Ron’s schtick.

  103. I am not going to abandon her, her party may have, but that is something I am noticing. This no longer seems like the party I loved and worked for so long.

    It seems like a poor relation to republicans.

  104. “Elitist John” is welcome to infest other sites … where he is not much appreciated either.

  105. They are just like Republicans, and it reminds me of Florida 2000.

    They think if they push and shove us hard enough, we’ll go along with them.

  106. They think we are idiots. That come November we will just put down the hankies, wipe off the sulks, march into the polls and vote for him regardless. They will continually refer to the SC and Roe v Wade as the main reason why we should just play nice.

    I am beyond needing Roe v Wade and as much as I fought for the right for a woman to choose her own destiny I am not buying into this one. To hell with them and their party balloon candidate. He does and says nothing for me. How does he change the fact that he stood behind his surrogates and allowed the Clintons to be brandished as racists? And if he was so quick to disavow his former pastor what makes anyone think for a minute he couldn’t do it to you if it suits his purposes? He is just another example of a Bush and Reagan puppet. Put the words into his mouth and he will say whatever.

  107. bostonboomer,

    “I think I may have to gather all this information together into a post so that we can have a record of all of Barry’s confabulations.”

    A republican just emailed this link to me. It’s a summary of the litany of gaffes. They are referring to BO as “Barack Potatoe Obama”.


    Another item on their list of strategies.

    It’s not too late, SDs! Do the right thing!

  108. Sayeth Kim: “He couldn’t so I told him and then I told him, I may vote democrat Congress and McCain president. He said he had heard there was a small spattering of women threatening this, but he could not believe we would go through with it.”

    Small spattering of women?? Hahahaha – obviously they have not done any of their homework. They keep pushing this because they simply cannot believe that we will pull that lever for McCain if necessary.

    They also forget or dismiss at their own peril that wonderful Margaret Mead quote:

    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.
    Margaret Mead
    US anthropologist & popularizer of anthropology (1901 – 1978)

  109. Just looked over some headlines on the Huffpost and there is one with Hillary Rosen and our Hillary. It is good read, I try not to read anything there, but when there is a good article…

    Anyway, I read it and looked down and they are still bashing her to the point your blood boils. Are these people insane? I know I call them Obamaniacs, Obamatrons, but I have never trashed him the way they curse and revile her the way they do. It is reprehensible. It actually hurts me to see it in print.

  110. Delphyne, that quote was one I needed right now, so thank you and we will pull that damn lever. It is just like I told the guy in parting, “What difference does it make, you have pushed upon me, an unelectable candidate, so either way, we have McCain.”

  111. Kim: I had to stop going over there since it has turned into a swampland of Hillary hate. You just know it is coming from undergrads and stay at homes who feel very empowered behind their screen names. An intelligent person and a real wit would never stoop to the level that these people employ. But it can be scary so I stay away.

  112. If Roe v Wade is in such peril, and women’s rights are hanging by such a precarious thread, perhaps the Obama fans ought to stop denigrating the Baby Boomer women who fought for their freedom and instead, learn from them. Perhaps, as well, they should start getting up and organizing around women’s rights.

    Perhaps, they should ask themselves **why** women’s rights are hanging by such a thread. If we live in a post-feminist society, where women have no concerns about misogyny, why is their single biggest issue that women’s rights are in grave danger?

  113. He said he had heard there was a small spattering of women threatening this, but he could not believe we would go through with it.

    In other words, he has heard that some “women” (??) are enraged about the way the party is treating us, but if he just ignores our complaint, that’s the best way to handle us. Eh?

    Because that’s what you do with unhappy people, right? You launch a campaign to make sure everyone arounds them knows you shouldn’t listen to what they say – they really don’t mean it.

    Treat us like trolls and throw us into the spam filter and then send real trolls around to this website to lecture us on freedom of speech and wanting to debate…..

    If I didn’t already have good reasons for not voting for Obama, the way he handles dissent is right up there.

  114. Is anyone getting the uncomfortable feeling that this man is not fully in charge of his own destiny? Since we have already concluded that he lacks any core values, is it too much a stretch to suggest that he is a hand selected candidate who is in the thrall of a savvy political operative and is just asked to come to the stage and the rabid will swoon?

    He does not take press questions, he has an aversion to debates, he does not appear to be very strong on public policy, and he wants to disenfranchise the voters. His handlers have created an image of something he is not.

  115. Pat, I am definitely getting that feeling too

  116. That GWB feeling…

  117. All of the Obots are angry that we’re not cutting him slack over his “misstatements” about his family history. One word, Bosnia. Too bad your own disgusting tactics come back to bite you, my heart bleeds.

  118. I realize I am a former “bot”, but after I pulled away and regrouped, I thought I should check out his policies and accomplishments. There is really nothing, and I mean nothing. He has never really been in one office long enough to get anything accomplished, because after he has been there a few months, he is off to a new candidacy.

    It is really unsettling when you think about it. He rose up from nowhere, and in just a few short years has almost made it to the highest office in the world. Crap, even though I thought the people who screamed antichrist were fruit loops, if you look at it from this view, it is a little frightening, reminds of the end of “The Omen”. Just kidding, but mainly because it unnerves the crap outta me.

  119. Kim,

    I know what you mean about “The Omen.” LOL! You did great handling that sexist freak who interviewed you. I’m sure you made him a lot more nervous than he let on. If they really think we are “just a small spattering of women,” they are going to have a shock come November. Now that it looks like the fix is in on Sat. in the roolz committee, I’m more determined than ever to fight back.

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