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FDR rallyI fell asleep for the last 15 minutes of Recount last night but I kind of know how it ends. I’m not going to review too much of this quirky film. You can do that in the comments. But I will say that we probably underestimated the level of absurdity in the 2000 election.

The most effective feature of the film for me was seeing the recount from both sides and how each side approached it. The Gore side wanted to play by the rules, initially, and took a diplomatic approach as exemplified by the almost cluelessly passive Warren Christopher. The Bush side was in full haka mode and was going to fight to the death. The weren’t especially bright but man were they vicious.

There was one particular scene that is instructive for the pro-Hillary bloggers and French Foreign Legion types that we are. Almost immediately, James Baker banned newspaper Op/Ed pages from the premises while Warren Christopher used them for guidance. And how did that work out? This is my point about disconnecting yourself from the media. The media, Obama campaign and the DNC are now engaged in a type of psychological warfare on us. I’m not being paranoid. Every one of you has experienced in one form or another even as recently as yesterday at the hands of Big Tent Democrat. And where is HE getting it from?

You have to protect yourself, immunize yourself, don’t take it personally. They are desperate to get Hillary to drop out and their intent is to undermine our resolve in any way possible. If you pay attention to the media, you will think that all of the forces of the universe are arrayed against her and that her cause is hopeless. But if you talk to your friends, you will find that a good many of them genuinely like her, want very much to vote for her in the general election and are depressed about her chances but not quite willing to give up hope. So, it isn’t true that everyone in the universe wants her to quit. It is just the people who stand to lose the most power who are screaming Surrender Dorothy.

The newest meme from them is that by staying in the race, she is hurting Obama’s and the Democrats chances in the fall. But the exact opposite is true. The longer Obama stays in the race, the more he hurts *her* chances and the Democrats chances in the fall. He is a walking, talking disaster waiting to implode the party on election day. The Superdelegates have to be watching the numbers and know that he starts out not with a wide lead over McCain but nearly dead even if not a bit behind. And this is before the media turns on him. Before the evils that lurk in the mud hatch out. Before half of the party walks off in disgust because it no longer has anything to offer us. He is toast. We can all see it. We know that the sun rises in the east and will set in the west and that Obama will lose this fall.

But Hillary can win. We just have to make sure that the rest of the country knows that we aren’t giving up. We’re not into diplomacy or negotiation in FL or MI. Both delegations must be seated fully with power to affect the outcome. We need to make a ruckus to show we are not going to passively hand over our votes and then disappear so Obama’s young undisciplined hooligans can throw a kegger in Denver. We are going to stick this out to the bitter end and we will be in their face until they recognize that Hillary is the best candidate we’ve had since 1992 for the presidency.

Now, I don’t want to hear about anyone spending this Memorial Day crying into their glass of Sangria in a box. Turn off the news, put down the paper and recuperate for next week. Have a picnic, barbeque or join me in Somerville, NJ for the annual Tour of Somerville Bike Race. We’re going to be OK if we stick together.

141 Responses

  1. Before the evils that lurk in the mud hatch out.

    Great visual.

  2. I was at a cookout last night and I got my sister to commit to the rally next Saturday. (My nephew was ready to sign up, until he discovered that we would have to leave Baltimore early on a Saturday morning to ‘get good seats’.) So chat up Hillary and the rally, where ever this holiday weekend takes you.

  3. Exactly. Hillary is not quitting and neither am I.

  4. Riverdaughter,
    I have been reading you for some time now, and after reading this post today, I just want to thank you. There are so many aspects of this blog that I love; this morning, it is the focus on the psyops, the haka. . .it is the haka that wears me down, and it is understanding what they are doing, and how we can respond, that makes me feel strong again.

  5. For the first time this morning, I’m starting to think that if Hillary doesn’t win, she should run as an independent. I can’t believe I’m even thinking that, but I am. I’ll put it in the back of my mind for now, leave the TV off and take it one day at a time. Thanks Riverdaughter for your strength and wisdom.

  6. Regarding BTD/TL, I was over there reading Jerelyn’s open thread, and there was a comment at the very end saying that using the word “despise” was too much. I refreshed and the comment had been deleted. So now I guess it’s even verboten to say that…..

  7. BB: you’re not the only one who’s been thinking that. Some of my Republican colleagues have been suggesting the same thing. They find her very electable but not as a Democrat. But I don’t think she would even consider such a thing. And anyway it’s too reminiscent of the way Joe Lieberman handled the 2006 senate election.
    She’s loyal to the party but if I were her, I would not concede anything. I would wait until Denver, no matter what happens next week.
    The DNC and Obama are going to shoot themselves in the foot if they don’t seat FL and MI. I guarantee that if that’s the way it goes down next week, he will lose in a landslide so big the party will take half a century to recover. There is only one way the party can get out tof this mess and it is risky for Obama. They must seat FL and MI. There is no other way. Let the chips fall where they may.

  8. It’s barricade time and really it always is for a Clinton. Hillary knows what she faces better than we . She’s fighting like this for the chance to fight like this for the next 8 years . Yet she’s there leading the charge. I’m not thinking post Hillary at all. It’s Hill or bust and that’s no metaphor. Hillary is a mother of this country. A mother does not fight for awhile and then say oh well.
    A mother fights until the end.


  9. I almost never watch television news, unless you count the Daily Show and I haven’t been watching that lately because they seem pro-Odrama. Mostly I watch reruns and basic cable shows (Burn Notice, Amazing Grace etc.) CMT is good when they have music, the talk shows stink.

    I don’t read the newpapers except for local news and comics (and horoscopes)

    Why take some bloviating gasbag’s opinion of what happened when I can get it unfiltered (relatively) on the internet. That’s espceially true for speeches and statements, like the other day.

    It’s weird to see something for myself and then get the filtered version.

    Like Hillary’s RFK statement and her apology. The way it was described was nothing like the real thing. Some news reports said Hillary looks shocked and pale when she gave the apology, like she was shook up. That’s not what I saw, she looked annoyed if anything.

    Remember the debate where she supposedly “lost it” and started freaking out on stage? Or when she broke down in tears?

  10. A bizarre idea:

    Maybe legitimacy for the Democratic nominee requires that

    Hillary win the nomination without FL & MI


    Obama win the nomination with FL & MI

    It’s possible that we’ve been thinking about it backwards — and the establishment is pushing that view.

    But, wouldn’t Obama’s supporters be more inclined to accept Hillary if she reached 2025 without FL & MI?

    Wouldn’t Hillary supporters be more inclined to support Obama if he welcomed FL & MI next week and got to 2210 delegates?


    I actually don’t think ANY delegate pledges matter this year at all. I think the only thing that counts will be the vote on the convention floor.

    And I think we have a long, long summer. Because Hillary WILL do well in the PR primary (these games could end in vote total suppression but, it hasn’t happened yet) And she’ll have a respectable showing in the last two primaries.

    She’s a sticker and However you want to quibble about metrics — More than HALF the Democrats will have cast ballots for Hillary Clinton this year.

    And then? We’ll live through history. I’ll name it in advance: The Summer of Revelations

    Just think of all the things the world doesn’t know about Obama. Do you think they’ll stay hidden all summer long? Really?

    The DNC might have gamed themselves out of control. I think that if the convention was scheduled traditionally that Obama probably would have pulled this off. But I don’t think he can keep his secrets for that extra two months. Something and someone will crack. So this is the time when we have to be like Hillary — Impervious. They can’t do anything to touch us now.

  11. Annetoo: And a battered woman should not cave in to the batterer either. The calls to “unity” are falling on my deaf ears. Just as Hillary has been beaten down and subjected to the worst case of sexism openly displayed by the MSM, I too feel battered and bruised. We are being treated like some hankie carrying flustered females who will immediately toe the line on behalf of the “party” is asking and expecting a little too much.

    Just what has this “party” done in the past two years that would justify jumping onboard their express? Very, very little. They have afforded Bush a free ride and caved into everything he asked for. What makes be believe that the “party” has our interests in mind? Nothing. So I am unharnessing myself from the party and will not be coddled or coerced into voting for someone of whom I have reason to believe is not up to the job let alone the baggage he is toting around. When you attack Hillary you attack me.

  12. *****”Annetoo, on May 26th, 2008 at 9:44 am Said:
    It’s barricade time and really it always is for a Clinton. Hillary knows what she faces better than we . “****


    If the GOP had had its way, WJC & HRC would now be political prisoners. Understand? That’s why when I hear the ridiculous thing about dynasties I get enraged. Do you not know the vile things that have been done to HRC? This is not a game!

    Also – I am a Democrat but to my mind, the DNC leadership has broken the franchise. I’m not sure I am going to accept their decisions in this primary season.

  13. In spite of me knowing that the Powers That Be will all but assure Obama is the nominee (What more could the Democratic establishment possibly do to make it clear to us that they don’t give a fuck about losing in November?), I want her to fight to the bitter end in Denver.

    What truly kills me is knowing that by stealing the nomination from Clinton they’ll not only prevent the first woman presidential nominee but, knowing she would beat McCain, the first woman president. Unforgivable. Because of that and so much more, I still plan on voting against Obama (i.e. McCain) in November. I need to see these bastards severely punished for what they’ve done.

  14. “#Annetoo, on May 26th, 2008 at 9:44 am Said:

    It’s barricade time and really it always is for a Clinton. Hillary knows what she faces better than we . She’s fighting like this for the chance to fight like this for the next 8 years .


    Hillary does know exactly what she faces and she is so brave to continue. What she has done and is doing is not for the faint hearted or the pearl clutchers. Facing the boyz and their patriarchal misogyny takes great courage and I believe that is precisely why they want to take her out, both metaphorically and perhaps physically. Since they aren’t succeeding at that very well with her, they are now after us, hoping we will succumb to their haka, their brutality. Surprise! Ain’t gonna happen.

    As an aside, I would spell NO as KNOW, as in Know Hillary, Know Peace.

  15. ChicagoDyke at Corrente says the plan is in place for Barack to be the nominee, and Hillary supporters should prepare themselves emotionally for the moment when Precious becomes the party’s choice. Get on board, or the train will leave you behind. The ending to the story has already been written. Well.

    That’s the outcome I’ve prepared myself to face all along, so it isn’t going to come as a huge surprise to me when–if–it happens. The writing is apparently on the wall at Digby’s place, too. Okay, fine.

    Obama will be the nominee of the Democratic Party, and Hillary Clinton will become a powerful voice in the Senate for the Democratic Party. It has been decreed; that is the narrative we are all being forced to choose. Whatever. I don’t accept it; I acknowledge it. But, here’s the thing: I will not vote for Obama; I am not in the Obama constituency. I no longer feel any loyalty to the Democratic Party; I won’t vote Republican either. So, basically, after being contemptuous of Lou Dobbs’ campaign to register everyone in the world as an “independent,” I find that I belong in that new constituency, after all. I think that this primary season has proven conclusively that both parties are contemptuous of the vast majority of us; and that the media memes are driving our political landscape into ever more vacuous, mediocre, and narcissistic popular cultural narratives, which are driving our country into increasingly narrowed historical perspectives along with intellectual erosion, narcissistic entitlement, and character relativity. We–as a nation of voters–are about to nominate the lesser candidate, who has achieved nothing, who has run a divisive and mendacious campaign, who has fictionalized his entire life story, and who is a proven opportunist, with clear character issues–but who has had the better marketing campaign. Shakespeare couldn’t write a greater tragedy for our political and cultural times. It’s The Tudors of the modern era, with all the intrigue, treachery, and positioning for power and favor from “the King” for those who remain “at court.” So, I’m prepared; after all, I am a REALITY-BASED progressive. But, I’m not acquiescing. Nor am I colluding with my vote. The irony of RECOUNT premiering on HBO at the very moment of its own sequel preview at the DNC on May 31 is too much for me. So, sorry. I won’t be there for the unity party. I don’t give a shit if McCain wins; it won’t be any different than if Obama wins. I’m waving goodbye to progressives at the same time I’m waving goodbye to the Democratic Party. But, I’m prepared, ChicagoDyke. I’ve been grieving for the past year, so I’m pretty much done with the grief process by now. I’m simply determined to vote my conscience, and the consequences be damned. You won’t see me “at court” currying favor. That’s MY bitter rant for the day, ChicagoDyke.

  16. All I know is that if Obama is the nominee, I’m not going suddenly have a complete reversal of my opinion of him that has developed over the last six months.

    Anyone who thinks otherwise is a fucking idiot.

    I am a SF Giants fan (they suck this year, but still) so I am obligated to “hate” the LA Dodgers. That is the west coast equivilent of Yankees/Red Sox.

    But I don’t really hate the Dodgers, it’s just a sports thing that fans do.

    This is different. I’m not opposed to Obama because I am a Hillary supporter, I am opposed to him because he is unqualified and unprincipled. That won’t change just because he becomes the nominee.

  17. It appears that some of us Confucians have made a trek over to Corrente today and responded in kind to the Chicago Dyke posting. Good for us! We will not allow our voices to be distilled or take this “dismissal” without protest. Be prepared for many more like these in the upcoming months while they do their best to either seduce or coerce us into backing Obama. No way!

  18. bmc — “They” can plan all they want. But, The Precious sitll has to get through the summer. And there is no way he can speed it up.

    No one can take away the delegates Hillary has won (and will win.) They will be waiting for her in Denver. No matter what Howard Dean, Donna B and Barack Obama want.

    Obama can claim to cross the finish line as often as he wants before Denver It’ll just be an illusion — a dream.

    This is the Summer of Revelations.

    And we’ll see which of them survives that.

  19. @KB: Obama has already imploded and yet “they” still fight for him tooth and nail, which leads me to believe Lambert is right: their goal is to gain control of the Party, not win in November.

  20. Before the evils that lurk in the mud hatch out.

    what kills me are all the hand-wringers that don’t realize that the longer Clinton stays in the race, the better off the party is regardless of who the nominee is.

    The right-wing slime machine won’t go after Obama with both barrels until Clinton is vanquished — the longer Clinton stays in, the more of an opportunity Obama has to do what he has failed so miserably to do so far — define himself in concrete terms to the American people.

    my greatest fear is that we’re going to see the ‘boiling frog’ scenario — an inexorable decline in Obama’s prospects that will be slow enough for Obama supporters and the SDs to stay in denial mode about his electability thoughout the summer. The worse Obama looks in terms of November, the more vicious and obsessed his supporters become, and by the time the convention rolls around and its obvious to any rational person that Obama is not merely going to lose, but drag the Party down with him, the Party will still choose Obama rather than confront his insane supporters.

  21. Davidson, I think the takeover relies on secrets being kept. But there’s no reason that has to happen.

    Also, there is no reason Hillary has to stop holding campaign events. She can travel the country holding rallies — showing strength.

  22. I read corrente last nite haven’t been there yet this morn.. I will tell you I was so proud of gg, katiebird and all the Conflucians who posted ..

    I was dismayed to hear cds message , even more to be talked to , once again, in a demeaning , tuff , crude and imo just plain ole ‘mean’ manner . I really don’t need to be brutalized by anyone , anywhere – anymore ..

    besides that , very important point you brought out – regarding the press rd .. t You …

  23. paul lukasic: And his supporters are getting pretty scary lately. Looking at the KO “special comments” video says it all. He has enough influence with certain segments to really create a dangerous situation with some supporters who have been placing him on a pedestal for his “truthiness”. As a matter of fact, he is beginning to appear rather unhinged himself. No doubt he is being coached by the Obama team and his posting on Kos is illustrative of the weight he carries in those circles. I can easily see this getting out of hand.

  24. Thanks for the post. I’ve had a news black-out for quite a while now. I highly recommend it.

    Btw, I don’t agree with the way you were treated at TL yesterday. The “hubris” accusation was off base. I have a lot of respect for BTD, but the constant pressure to take one for the team by voting for BO is just more of the same old same old. There are going to be consequences for the behavior of the Obama campaign–I am talking specifically about the sexism and race-baiting targeted at other Democrats.

    Telling us we need to get over it for the good of the country doesn’t fly with me. In a sick and dysfunctional family system the perpetrator is protected while the exploited members are told to remain silent because they cannot survive without him, no matter how severe the abuse. I am nearly 50 and casting a vote for Obama, given the way we have been treated, would be like denigrating my core beliefs and everything I have worked for in my family life, my education, and my professional life. There isn’t a politician in the world that is worth giving up my basic beliefs and my identity for. It would be like voting against my true “self.” No can do.

  25. @KB: They’re power-obsessed, but what I don’t understand is if Obama is the nominee, the whole house of cards will fall so why would the Party be worth having control over? Maybe it’s to secure that the Democratic Party is fully co-opted into the right-wing and since it’s quite unlikely for a third party to be successful it’ll silence any true, effective opposition against the corporate strangulation of our democracy.

  26. @KB: Oh, and I fully agree with you: she should keep campaigning (there’s only a week or so left) and fight to the end.

  27. cc, on May 26th, 2008 at 10:51 am Said:
    I have a lot of respect for BTD,


  28. Thank you for the inspiration, Riverdaughter! I am dogged in my optimism for Hillary, but it gets harder and harder when you see those around you falling into line. But I would never give up–we have to have the kind of courage Hillary has. We may be seen as despised cultists by our former allies, but I feel like a patriot and a fighter.

    I will lift my favorite scotch to you this eve in thanks for helping us all keep our eyes on the prize.

  29. This goes all the way to Denver for me. I guess they had some of their best propagandists far behind enemy lines. They are pulling out all the stops now. We must resist. They can only sustain this mega-haka for a very short time. Thanks to everyone here who have helped me maintain my sanity. RD this site is now the beacon in the deepest depths of night. We need to get as loud as we can in the next week. I’m on the road now for a while, talk to everyone later.

  30. also – read pkrugmans piece last nite – sheesh – the inevitable .. the anointing – he did make a good point if I remember right about ‘they’ really need to think about not needing Hillary supporters .. in nov.

    cd needs to read the piece below and begin to fight for progressive values – all that energy used – just to slap me, insult me .. abusive to the max .

    this is the ‘hope, change guy – remember?? the uniter? – sheesh – I think NOT . the most divisive candidate in my lifetime …”1) Disenfranchising Michigan and Florida

    2) Refusing to fix Michigan and Florida

    3) Making misleading public statements about MI and FL

    4) Trying to prematurely push Hillary out of the race

    5) Urging super-delegates to end the race before all states vote


  31. Pat Johnson, on May 26th, 2008 at 10:35 am Said:
    It appears that some of us Confucians have made a trek over to Corrente today and responded in kind to the Chicago Dyke posting. Good for us! We will not allow our voices to be distilled or take this “dismissal” without protest. Be prepared for many more like these in the upcoming months while they do their best to either seduce or coerce us into backing Obama. No way!

    Why keep going over there? It sounds like another Daily Kos to me.

  32. cc, what a great analogy you made in comparing this situation to a disfunctional family. I escaped aan emotionally abusive marriage to a clinical narcissist, and have worked very hard at identifying the signs and avoiding them–for dear life. I know a clinical narcissist when I see one. And I know the types of personalities that fall for lie and perpetuate the abuse.

    you said it–“NO CAN DO”

  33. Hey everybody! Happy Memorial Day – respect & honor to our heroes.

    News from PR: Hillary has been there since Saturday afternoon, with many campign stops, visits, talks meet & greets. Many people are criticizing that Obama’s one day stint was disprespectful to the voters. He had one big rally and that was it. (Personally, I just think it’s him being lazy with these big huge rallies.) Obama’s main point was that he’d build a new Vet hospital and end the war in Iraq.

    Today, she will visit the capital building with Bill & Chelsea to honor fallen PR vets for Memorial Day.

    Her main points in PR are obv. Universal healthcare, veteran treatement /medical “life after serving you country, education, medical and economic help”) also the right for PRs & Guam to vote in presidential elections, she thinks every American citizen should have the right to vote in Nov, not just for citizens who are abroad or in the states, regardless whether PR is an autonomous associated state or an actual state, economic incentives (a lot of pharma left PR this past year so it’s an issue) to bring more manufacturing jobs to PR.

    However as expected, on PR blogs the haka is on, with ignorant pro-Obama spammers.

    On the ground & seeing footage of voters and articles, it feels like there’s defintie hope for Hillary, many PPD (pro free but associated state party that endorsed Obama) rank & file members are disobeying the orders of their governor (Mr. $57,000 suits bought with campaign money) and going for Hillary.

    Positive opinion press/comments are that she did a lot for PR as first lady, has fought on behalf of PR on the Senate floor since 2000, done tremendous work with PRs in NYC & abroad, she cares about Latinos and issues that specifically affect us.

    Negatives are that she’s behind, that Obama is the new DNC flavor on the block, that young people like him more than her in the US, etc.

  34. Like the other posters here today, I will never vote for Obama and agree with all the reasons listed her e today. Pat Johnson resonates the most with me. I too fell battered by this primary season. However now I getting really angry and agree with Davidson. We have time but it seeems to me that all of us who feel this way should come up with a unified response in November, to make the statement loud and clear. Do we become Independent and write in Hillary? Is leaving the party good strategy because if we do there will me no one to fight for it’s soul. Do we start thinking about forming a new party? Angelachel has a very interesting post about the reasons in the past that a socialist party has never formed in our country. She believes middle class entitlements , put in place during the FDR era and after the war kept us relatively secure. As we all know the mddleclass is not secure and the lower middle is falling off the edge.If the Obamaots take over the Democratic Party it will cease to be a party of the people and become a libertarian party of the affluent.
    It is so sad to me but I know many AAs will come to be disappointed with Obama in the long run and be willing to join such a coalition. It is fun to imagine that we could get organized enough to make a big enough statement that the powers that be see a movement forming and Hillary could lead us in a whole new direction. She is showing us her true core now, one I have always seen. One that I am willing to go to the wall for!

  35. Riverdaughter, thanks for staying strong and fighting the good fight. I think I’m going to start a blog death watch on my Hillary LJ community; with Chicago Dyke’s post over at Correntewire and Taylor Marsh’s recent post about having diverging POV’s on her site, the Clinton bloggers are dropping like flies, but I know I can count on The Confluence and No Quarter. I thought your comment to Chicago Dyke on Correntewire was totally on point. I don’t post over there, but I read regularly and I noticed weeks ago that she clearly doesn’t have the stomach for a protracted fight.

    This is a frustrating process, but I won’t back down. I’m watching “Recount” now and it brings back all the bad memories – how Gore was called a “crybaby” and his supporters were told to “get over it”. History has vindicated him and I trust that the same will happen with Hillary, no matter what the outcome of the primary race.

  36. ~ sorry for all the typos,boomer eyes!

  37. I removed Corrente from my favorites this morning. Way to fold Chicago Dyke, with less than 2 weeks to go and the primaries are over. What a backbone, she said it is rigged so we might as well give up and rejoin the blogger boiz, (not sure if that is the best argument to support someone because the corrupt DNC put forward their choice by a corrupt process). I am sure she has a fabulous new dairy up, about unity, that will make me all warm inside. I am glad the gay community that fought for my rights did not give up that easily.

  38. Lambert and Vastleft haven’t given up, and CD was walking it back a little this morning

  39. Corrente is a multi-author blog and Chicago Dyke is just one of the authors. Lambert made it clear right away last night that Chicago Dyke was speaking only for herself.

    In fact here’s an interesting post from this morning: New Brave Coalition

    We can’t let ourselves be cut off from friends.

  40. who or what is mccentury ?

  41. I ain’t drinking the #$*&^$%(! koolaid, I don’t care what anyone says.

  42. And RD, Thank you for speaking up to CD at Corrente. I’m not buying that BS about “I talk to the movers and shakers, I know what’s happening, but I can’t share the details with you.

    Oh really? Then STFU. Give it to me straight or keep it to yourself. I’m sick of being condescended to. I’m not taking it anymore and that’s unshakable. It’s not going to change. I’m already done with the “Democratic” party and “progressives,” whatever they are. I’ll go down fighting with Hillary.

  43. mccentury = mccain in CD speak

  44. ok, one more post. corrente deleted my comments to CD’s post. well, you know what, FUCK THEM, all of them. CD is a coward and has the gall to say “can’t we all just get along”. Like I said there, family members don’t stab other family members in the back. And has for her complaint about writing, I read something she wrote about loving a straight man the other day and it read like a drunk blathering on the back of a cocktail napkin. as Katie says, I spit on them.

  45. The movers and shakers may have made up their minds, just like the media.

    They forgot about us.

    The voters

  46. Um, gary, corrente is my home blog.

  47. myiq2xu —your point? they’re becoming the very thing they have protested against. Sorry if that hurts, but you know what they say about the truth. Insulting your readers and then deleting their comments when they respond in kind is cowardly and reminiscent of the great purge from the big boy blogz earlier this year. This is especially galling when you guys come to this blog hat in hand not two days ago, and this is how we get treated???????? GMAB

  48. There is something the Obama supporters (Obamaphants and Obamaphiles especially) along with some now disillusioned progressives who just want this primary to end (chicago dyke), don’t realize. I was a Deaniac in 03-04 yet voted for Kerry in Nov in part because anyone was better than Bush and Kerry was indeed qualified for the position (war hero, years and years of government experience). Obama has neither advantage in Nov 08. If he is the nominee, he will be running against McCain, McCain is not Bush no matter how the narrative is spun. Second, I feel Obama is approaching the level of not being qualified that makes me entirely too uncomfortable to cast a vote for him. Now, if he can somehow prove he has what it takes in 5 months, then I would vote for him. I seriously doubt this is possible. I refuse to be moved by words alone. Before this primary, I had always assumed that it would be the republicans who would nominate and elect the next anti-Christ ( I understand if some do not believe that sort of thing). However, now I know either party is capable of doing such. And no, I am not saying Obama is the anti-Christ, what I am saying is that the DEM party (at-least slightly less than half of those who cast votes, along with mindless yet hopelessly calculating SDs) seems poised to nominate someone almost completely unknown, untested, and unproven.

    Thank you all for this blog…I only comment on occasion, yet i sincerely appreciate the fact there are those who chose conscience rationality over utter emotion left in this party…

  49. Gary, ONE person wrote that post — there were plenty of Corrente authors who disagreed with her in those comments.

    Please — Gary, The Corrente Building is huge and I don’t think your anger should be directed at the whole place.

    Far from it.

    (squinting fiercely)

  50. Katie, I don’t think it was CD who deleted my comment. From his later post, it appears it was lambert. I am not telling anyone else what to do, but yet again there’s one less place I’ll be visiting from now on.

  51. myiq2xu:

    They forgot about us.

    The voters

    (nodding) They’ve tried to forget us for months. That’s the interesting thing about the WWTSBQ movement. Everyday is a new day to them. Like they just woke up this morning and realized that Hillary can’t win.

    Except that they’ve been saying it since the day of New Hampshire. Remember the headlines that Hillary would get out right after the polls close?

    Well, the voters have spoken EVERY single primary.

    And we haven’t stopped.

    What I don’t understand about CDs post is Just HOW do the Party leaders plan to GIVE Obama the nomination?

    Lock the Hillary Delegates out of the convention?

  52. probably because I called CD a coward. I stand by that. And I stand by my earlier post that deleting such a comment is also cowardly. How can they post such an inflammatory post and not expect blowback? and then they delete it? It’s not the quality of writing they have a problem with, its more of an “intestinal fortitude” problem if you ask me.

  53. RD, Thanks for the reminder that this is all mind games. The press and their sponsors are easy to avoid. But the O supporters I cannot avoid completely in work or social situations. I have started screwing them in business and/or socially. I have not told a soul that I am doing this and my actions are very calm, private and low key. I never say a negative thing about anyone. I am asked to give professional services recommendations very frequently and this is my first criteria considered at this time. Oh yes, I give job recommendations . Wink, wink. If they want war I will give them guerilla war. Hit them where it hurts. Their wallets.

  54. Gary, I didn’t see your comment, so I can’t say why it was deleted. But I think that question belongs over at Corrente. Have you asked about it there?

  55. Who is they? I post things over there because they are kind enough to let me, but the senior fellows and I have a few disagreements.

    I don’t have keys to the place, but they let me use a cubbyhole under the stairs, so I am grateful.

    What CD was complaining about is the loss of unity. It’s a reflection of the loss of liberal/progressive unity in the Democratic Party and the lefty blogosphere.

    A while back is was us against the GOP, but now we’re stuck in a bloody primary fight.

    Ironically, it’s the “Unity” candidate and his supporters that caused this clusterfuck.

  56. Doesn’t this latest “Clinton is done!” rant seem so systemic? It’s all over even the Clinton blogs. Suspicious.

    Q: Someone over at TL said that even Begala and Carville seemed resigned to Obama “winning” the nomination? Since I haven’t watched TV “news” since late January, has anyone else seen that?

    I fear I might still have a flicker of hope that the Democratic Party won’t self-destruct. I just can’t believe what’s going on.

  57. I never have liked orange koolaid anyway .:)~~

  58. Gary, riverdaughter might disagree with me. But, I don’t think this conversation belongs on Confluence. Lambert, myiq2xu and many other Corrente posters are beloved Confluencians.

    Speaking only for myself, your problems with Corrente commenting policy belongs over there.

    I strrongly disagree with calling them out here.

  59. thanks myiq2xu: – 😉 – do I ever feel stupid .. lol

  60. I’m too angry right now. I’m going to give myself a time out. I love you all, just have a sore spot about being purged from blogs, i’m sure you all understand. Have a great memorial day everyone. I’ll check in later.

  61. {{gary}} We love you too. And we’ll see you later. 🙂

  62. katie, I apologize. I just brought it here because I was being excluded from the conversation there. Like I said, I’m very angry right now. I’ll leave for a little while to cool down.

  63. Happy Mem Day to all us French Foreign Legion types…
    This was the day my mother married my stepfather. Many moons ago, and now they are both gone from this world. I know how RD feels about her dad. This is the sickest election I’ve ever seen in my life. If elections are going to be like this, now? Maybe we will join the Legion someplace else. You know, sometimes lately I hardly recognize my own country. It doesn’t feel the same. I’m still pro-Hillary, as I always have been. I will never change my mind. If she isn’t there, screw being a Dem, ever again. Won’t happen. Our country is in a mess, but Global warming is going to be the big leveler, I swear. Guess what that ass wants to do? Burn more coal. Another brilliant gaffe. NQ has his number.

    RD, be strong! We’re all still here with you, and friends forever inside here. That’s true!

  64. Someone deleted one of my comments yesterday.

    I was replying to a comment that said they hoped Bill Clinton would tell Obama thus -n- such, and I said I hoped he punched Obama in the mouth ala Harry Truman.

    Harry took offense at a bad review of his daughter’s singing and threatened to fatten the critic’s lip.

    I would love to see the big Dawg paste some sumbitch in the mouth for talking shit about Hillary or Chelsea.

    What are they gonna do to him if he did it? His approval ratings would spike through the roof.

  65. Gary,

    I understand. We love you too.

    I too think it’s very suspicious the way things have happened this weekend. What we have to remember is something Riverdaughter has said many times. We are powerful too, because we have something they want and need–our votes. There are a lot of us, and they are finally starting to realize it. So they are increasing the intensity of the haka, even using their “friendlies” in the Hillary blogs to try to brainwash us.

    It’s not going to work. They have already gone way too far, and as we can see from the shortness of their supposed “niceness” push, they can’t even control themselves. Even when they know how desperately their candidate needs Hillary’s voters, they can’t bring themselves to *ask* for our votes. The only method they know is intimidation.

  66. I don’t post at Corrente but I read there all the time and Chicago Dyke’s post was a real disappointment.

    My guess would be that the Democratic party has charged someone or maybe a couple of someones to do a bit of reach-out to pro-Hillary bloggers who might be receptive to some alternating charm and pressure. Her post read exactly like someone who’d been flattered and then leaned on – she thinks she’s in the loop but the price she has to pay for that is stabbing Hillary supporters in the back. They’ve fed her the lines, like the one about how Hillary must be desperate because she did a conference with bloggers and now we must have UNITY because it’s in the bag for Obama then all they have to do is point her in the right direction, sit back and watch the explosions.

    It’s a shame she fell for it. My advice to Chicago Dyke would be to stay away from manipulative people because she reads like she’s been played.

  67. The Foreign Legion?

    I forgot to do a post to honor Camerone Day a few weeks ago. That is THE Legionaire holiday.

    About 60 Legionaires were surrounded by 5000 Mexican troops in a farmhouse near Camerone Mexico. After a full day of fighting, there were about five of them left, and they only had one bullet apiece., so the only officer still alive ordered them to fix bayonets and charge.

    There were two survivors, only because the Mexican commander ordered that they be taken alive, but they had to be beaten unconcious to do that.

    Seems appropriate for us Hillary supporters.

  68. “conference *call* with bloggers”

  69. Wooing and trying to get us in line is in full force. I got a whiff of it at TM the other day and now I see Chicago Dyke is shedding its skin to reveal…a true motive, perhaps? Nice. Well, guess what? NOT BUYING! As Pat says the seduction and coercion will be picking up steam in the next coming months, but for me THAT train left the station some time ago. I am with Hillary to the end and will not betray or abandon her like so many have. I am a Newbie to these sites, before finding them I felt I was in some sort of twilight zone, so I am grateful for having had them to visit. BUT, if voting for Obama is the meaning of being a Democrat, count me out. Axelrod Chicago dirty politics are not principals I believe in. I don’t have to prove anything to anyone. I know what I believe and what I stand for, and will not be bullied, coerced, “reasoned”, convinced, seduced, or persuaded. I will not forget what I have seen, heard, felt these last few months. For many this is a game and the rules are to forgive, forget and embrace at the end. I don’t play games, I’m for real – Come November I will vote, and if Obama is the nominee I will be voting AGAINST him. I truly believe Obama and his crew are just as bad if not worse than Bush. The last few months have been a humbling, eye opening experience for me, I used to look down and lump together all Republicans; now I realize some in the left are just as bad. I have a feeling come November many who condoned and went along
    with this brutal, unjust bashing of a competent viable candidate will regret having a D next to their name.

  70. Krugman has a new column over at the NYTimes. I would bet a lot of people here would disagree with some of what he says but Krugman has usually managed to sum up my thoughts better than I can do myself.

    I am not sure why some people are so quick though to equate somebody changing their mind with capitulation. Personally, I have never considered my support of BO as an attribute that defines me. I realize that some do feel this way about their support of HRC (nothing wrong with that). It is however a mistake for those people to assume everybody else prioritizes their BO/HRC support in the same way. For a huge number of people out there who they support says relatively little about them.

    What is the deal with all this third party talk? Pretend for a moment that HRC has zero interest in being a part of it. Now, without mentioning BO: why is it a good idea (or what is the point even)? A year from now a lot of people are probably going to still care about what is happening now (BO vs. HRC). Most people will not.

  71. myiq2xu,

    That’s about how strongly I feel right now. Your comment made me laugh, but it’s still the way I feel. I said a long time ago that even if Nancy Pelosi, Howard Dean, and Donna Brazile marched me into the voting booth, each with a gun to my head, I couldn’t bring myself to vote for Obama. I’d rather die. It would mean sacrificing my values and my sense of who I am. It’s that important to me.

  72. Denise W.,

    TM has a post up today saying she will honor all viewpoints, even those of people who won’t vote for Obama. I was glad to see that.

  73. Is that the policy here? Is this blog in partnership with Corrente?

  74. Five Thirty, I thought I was pretty clear that I was “speaking only for myself” and that I saw Corrente as being a big place. That Lambert expressed some concerns about the post in question.

    So I don’t think we should pretend that Corrente is speaking with one voice.

    Disagreements or discussion about the content of posts is totally appropriate from blog to blog.

    It’s getting into disagreements about comment policies belong at the individual blogs.

    Again, I’m speaking only for myself….

  75. I speak only for myself. I’m not sure who the voices in my head speak for.

  76. OK – now I understand that you are only expressing your own opinion, which others can disagree with.

  77. Gary, Anne, bb

    Ditto to what you’ve said ! The paid reach out to Hillary bloggers is so obvious. They folded like lawn chairs, I guess some have the backbone of a banana


    I’ll pass on your “reasoning” – thank you.

  78. (blushing)

    Five Thirty, I might have misrepresented the situation a little. While I DO speak only for myself, if I feel that comments cross the line making Confluencians uncomfortable (generally that’s trolls and sweeties & abusive comments — but who knows what’s heading our way) I can send them to the spam filter.

    [EDIT] Confluence is a refuge for Hillary Supporters. Any comment that threatens that status is probably inappropriate.

  79. bostonboomer,
    I always felt that way about voting Republican. However, if Hillary–who is the best, most qualified candidate–is not the nominee, I am voting for McCain in protest. I am so grateful for The Confluence, because you guys keep me strong. I hope Hillary takes this to the convention. She has the courage; I pray she has the strength.

  80. Boston & Katie & Everybody,

    The Haka is coming from Obama supporters, but underground, it’s Repub media controlled haka because Repubs know that they CANNOT BEAT HILLARY IN NOVEMBER.

    So as I see it, Obama followers are another chess piece in Karl Rove’s game.

    Why? Because they know McCain will win if Obama is the nominee, but McCain will LOSE BY A LANDSLIDE if Hillary is the nominee.

    And Boston, I agree with you, they’d have to cut my finger off before I press a button for Obama. He’s a cheater just like Bush was in 2000.

    I’m hoping that the popular vote will come through from Hillary in PR, to the point that it’ll be impossible for him to catch up in MO & WY.

    And I’m dying for that to happen, because you know that the arguement will be that “well PR doesn’t vote in the general, why should they count?” So why did they DNC feel it important to have a primary there in the first place? If that’s the feel, say good bye to the Latino vote, or at least 70% of the Latino vote.

  81. Ok, guys, we’ve said what needed to be said to CD at Corrente. Like I said in my comment, I am not surprised to see her be one of the first to crack. The thing about Unity that she mourns over is that you have to be one of the people sticking together and she has decided it’s too much trouble. But I don’t want her post to be the cause of a rift between us and the other correntians. They have to figure out a way of coexisting with CD, not us. In the meantime, we will stick with them until they cry uncle.

  82. riverdaughter, those are my feelings exactly. Thank you.

  83. KB & BB:

    I just re-read my “comment” about the “Progressives” new found love for Andrew Sullivan and their willingness to cede the leadership of the “progressive” movement to Arianna Huffington.

    I screwed up one link (I think) and there are a couple of typos. I would like to fix those snafu and submit it as a FP story as BB suggested.

    I think it’s important for member of the Progressive Blogosphere 2.0 to understand how much the Big Boiz and Big Blogz are ready to throw everything overboard and sell their soul to anyone who hates Hillary Clinton.

    This attitude of “Progressive” has been bugging the s@#t out of me throughout this primary season.

    To those who don’t know what I’m talking about, check here.

  84. Have you all seen Homind views today? Hill w/100% chance of beating McCain. Ras also has her taking KY.

  85. katiebird, on May 26th, 2008 at 12:45 pm Said: “While I DO speak only for myself, if I feel that comments cross the line making Confluencians uncomfortable (generally that’s trolls and sweeties & abusive comments — but who knows what’s heading our way) I can send them to the spam filter.”

    In context though, of commenters calling out Corrente and other anti-HRC blogs, is that the kind of thing you are going to be sending to the spam filter? I, for example, have no allegiance to that website.

  86. Five Thirty,

    This site is a refuge for Hillary Supporters. So we ask that you don’t call out anyone — never mind what other blogs they hang out on.

    We’re reasonable people here and aren’t looking to delete anything. But, we aren’t going to let this place descend to flame wars.

  87. Melanie, YIKES!

    I hadn’t those maps look good!

  88. Five Thirty?

    Corrente is NOT an anti-Hillary blog. Please do not say THAT again.

  89. I think we need to be prepared for the Obama and media narrative that Puerto Rico doesn’t count because they can’t even vote in the general election. We should assume that is where this will go.

  90. Ben, that’s exactly what I’m predicting – but it’s going to cost them the Latino vote in Nov. IF Obama is nominated.

    See, you can’t ask for a state/territory to vote – THEN say that their vote doesn’t “count.”

    Oh wait….

  91. does anyone know why SC was not punished for having an early primary while FL and MI were. SC was Jan 28.

    What was the offending date? Was it “before” Super Tuesday?

    (I wasn’t following primaries back then)

  92. I’m also not saying that the Latino vote is monolithic, we aren’t.

    But I already see/hear it.

    One good thing that Hillary did while in PR, she also reunited with the Cuban & Dominican colonies that live in PR. These are strong Latino constituencies that resonate back here in the US.

  93. I was going to say “I hate to say this” but frankly I WANT to say this. We are a party of affirmative action and this whole nominating process is either a “teachable lesson on race” as riverdaughter brilliant said OR affirmative action gone terribly wrong. There is one reason SC was not punished and that’s because of the AA vote there. I’m telling you this is all sinking in subliminally to independent voters. When people like that McCain guy say, “I can’t work against an AA candidate for president.” Or when the media stir the narrative that Bloomberg would not want to stand in the way of Obama because he is black it is all about affirmative action. Frankly, it’s offensive and does not to anything to further the cause of race relations

  94. Dot, SC was not punished at all, neither was Iowa.

    Why? Because the Precious won there, can’t you understand that? All states that aren’t Obama must be eliminated and discounted.

    (snark, obviously)

    That’s why FL is pissed off, why weren’t the other states penalized. SC went throught the same thing FL did, their Republican controlled state congress moved up the date.

    From what I know, and I could be wrong, the DNC gave SC a “waiver” of punishment.


  95. dotcommodity,

    It appears the fix was in from the very beginning. SC was not punished, because they wanted some states with high percentages of AA voters to go early. I guess Nevada wasn’t punished because they wanted to encourage western state participation and they thought BO could win there. Iowa and NH weren’t punished because they are apparently always going to be allowed to have more influence on the nomination than more representative, larger states. It makes absolutely no sense to anyone with a brain….

  96. Or when the public continues to hear that certain topics are off limits or we have to tread carefully on this issue and that issue with Obama, it leaves a deep seeded impression with people that he is weak. The Rs aren’t stupid. They know the old psychological warfare doesn’t work so what they are doing is much much more subtle and the DNC is complicit in this.

  97. Or when the media stir the narrative that Bloomberg would not want to stand in the way of Obama because he is black it is all about affirmative action. Frankly, it’s offensive and does not to anything to further the cause of race relations

    But they can sure step on all dem little womenfolk’s dreams & aspirations of seeing a woman president.

  98. SM: exactly, I forgot to make that point. They CHOSE what was more important. I say, onward to Denver. Ain’t no stoppin us now. We’re on the move!!

  99. Bill Clinton on the campaign trail — what is going on here! Cover up!


    Also, if you want to brighten your day, watch this video by a young AA Hillary supporter Dawn Rogers with a Web cam in her bedroom (stuffed animals on the bed). She is better than the pundits on MSNBC! I hope Hillary can see this video.

  100. But they can sure step on all dem little womenfolk’s dreams & aspirations of seeing a woman president.

    Ha. I’ve seen on many blogs & forums and among people I know in real life, the fact that it might mean something to women to elect a woman president not only doesn’t matter, it’s treated with suspicion and contempt.. why does everything have to be about gender.. why would you only vote for her based on gender (which is not the case).. and how awful it is for us to care. WTF, we are half the population.

    Does anyone remember The Speech following the first arrival of Rev. Wright on the national stage? I mean, surely we remember that it was delivered and that the pundits were fighting amongst themselves to lavish the most praise upon this great Moment in History.. Am I the only one who can’t recall much about what he said, or what the point of it was (aside from changing the subject)?

    A friend of mine went all Chris Matthews about how no other politician could ever have delivered such an amazing, important, historic speech and especially not Hillary. I replied citing 1995, “women’s rights are human rights,” and.. what do you know, that doesn’t count because it’s just about women’s issues!

  101. As one of “dem little womenfolk,” I am totally pissed off!

  102. Hm, some interesting things going on this weekend…

    In any case, the “I don’t want to get left behind when the bus pulls away” argument doesn’t work for me. I actively, firmly don’t want to be on that bus. In fact, I think a lot of people on that bus are unhinged. Why would I want to take a ride on the bus? It isn’t going to give me anything — not health insurance, not a voice, not justice or accountability, not even good company.

    The party unity argument won’t work on me anymore. I don’t know what the Democratic party **is** anymore. I only know its powerful insiders are colluding with the big money media to decide our candidate. I only know I’m not interested. I get that there are certain persons who will start jumping to turn the way the wind blows — I’m thinking Taylor Marsh here — but I don’t have any such vested interest, and the Unity Pony snorts at me in vain.

    I guess my position is, I can’t fold. Not as in: “I can’t possibly imagine folding!” As in: “there’s nothing for me to fold to, eh, here I be and here I stay.” I’m here, I’m not going anywhere, I will never vote for BO, and nobody’s blind party ideology could make me do so.

  103. Remember, when people say Puerto Rico doesn’t count because they can’t vote in the general election, tell them that the flaw, the travesty is that they can’t vote in the general election for their OWN HEAD OF STATE. The flaw is NOT that their vote in the primary counts.

    Their voice in the primary is the only control they have over who becomes their head of state.

    And BTW, I believe it’s the Republicans that are keeping Puerto Rico from having a GE voice.

  104. Crossing my fingers for Puerto Rico.

  105. That bus can go with out me. I will be happy to stay back with all the rational human beings and waive to them good bye! Doesn’t that remind you of that movie FINAL DESTINATION when that kid has a vision of the plane crashing and dthe one girls is like, damn, i’m getting off this plane. Of course, it didn’t turn out too well for anyone in that movie. The point is that some of us are following are instincts and not staying on that plane which is going to crash and burn.

  106. “The bus” has to come with ideas we can believe in.

    Otherwise, the bus is just for sheeple.

    I wasn’t a Democrat because I liked the shape of the letter ‘D’. I was a Democrat because I liked what they stood for. I don’t like what they stand for anymore, so they can go on this field trip without me.

  107. Same here, Teresa. I’m wiith you all the way.

  108. What I hate more than anything in the world is being taken for granted. By my kids, my boss, my friends, my family. I am not a rubber stamp. Obama is not my candidate; never was, never will be. He has not shown one ounce of leadership, his qualifications are sketchy, he has not created a paper trail, there is nothing there worth my vote.

    If the purpose now is to appeal to my better nature they must be educated to the fact that I do not possess a better nature. My better nature went south when I was labeled a racist. After that slur all bets were off.

  109. I think we also need to be prepared for the DNC rules committee to do some odd type of compromise that will some how benefit Obama. They want to continue the status quo as long as they possibly can. I just can’t figure out yet what it is going to be. But you can bet it’s going to be some weak-kneed cowardly type of compromise resolution. Then they will all come out and say how they are bringing the party together…but Hillary will be screwed whatever it is.

  110. Aw here come the sweeties!

  111. Pat: Excellent. Now that I don’t think about it I don’t have a better nature either. What you see is what you get with me. There’s not this good side waiting to come out. It’s already good!

  112. Teresa: Yup

  113. Yeah the DNC wants Obama. There is no question about that. And they will GET their Obama (in the primary).

    He will be McGovern in the general.

  114. Ignore inappropriate behavior.

  115. All of the Illinois influence peddlers machinations make the rigging of the nomination by the DNC look like child’s play.

    Illinois Gov. Blag was supposed to be the Democratic nominee who as president would replace Patrick Fitzgerald and clear Rezko and the whole bedrock of Illinois influence peddlers that Fitzgerald has in his crosshairs.

    Blag became radioactive so Obama, Rezko’s #2 man, is being sold by Axelrod (of the Daley machine). There’s even more than the DNC’s attempt to wrest the party from the centralist philosophy of the Clintons (a path that includes all Americans, but especially the middle and lower classes).

    If the extent of Democratic corruption in Chicago and Illinois were known, the Democratic Party as we know it would implode. (Republicans are part of this, and Rezko was bi-political in his favors since his only purpose was to make more money–but the Democratic “image” has the most to lose–and the previous governor Ryan (R) is in jail).

    “In politics, Ryan was known as a consummate deal maker. Republican or Democrat, it didn’t matter. Ryan knew the key to almost any legislator’s heart and vote were local projects big and small. He approved O’Hare expansion for Mayor Daley and the Lincoln Library for Springfield.” For more see,

    While sitting in his cell the past four months, I wonder how often Rezko relives his walk-through in Obama’s new mansion. The one that Rezko managed to swing for him through Auchi’s loan? Rezko was broke and everyone with an ear to the ground knew that he was about to be arrested. Obama’s political instincts are not golden.

    The question is how much Obama as Chairman of the Senate Health and Human Services Committee passed legislation (specifically Senate Bill 1332) that helped Rezko’s influence peddling schemes.

    From Evelyn Pringle’s latest article on Follow the Money: “On May 31, 2003, Senate Bill 1332 passed and specified that the “Board shall be appointed by the Governor, with the advice and consent of the Senate.” The legislation reduced the number of members from 15 to 9, paving the way for the appointment of a five-bloc majority to rig the votes.

    The corrupt members appointed included three doctors who contributed to Obama. Michel Malek gave Obama $10,000 on June 30, 2003 and donated $25,000 to Blagojevich on July 25, 2003. Malek also gave Obama another $500 in September 2003.”

    Here’s a link to the Chicago Sun-Times article about Obama’s letters for Rezko:


    You can see copies of the letters here. I’m sure Karl Rove has followed this link:


  116. The elite Washington establishment that always detested the outsider Clintons – ran a newbie Empty Suit senator for the purpose of preventing a Hillary presidency.

    Through all Obama’s race-baiting and false charges of racism against the Clintons – the establishment has remained silent or racheted it up.

    NO Dem candidate would repeatedly trash a former Dem president’s administration without the backing of the elite Washington establishment!

    Obama has been ALLOWED to divide the Dem Party and lead Obamabots to believe the Clintons are responsible for all the evil in the world.

    We would never vote for a candidate that relied on race-baiting to “win” – and we won’t vote for Obama or send another dime to the Dem Party.

  117. Please be specific Kacey. Exactly what is “inappropriate” about Bill Clinton’s “behavior?” I’ll give you time to explain, but we need specifics.

  118. let him lose in november, then take the party back with hillary in the senate. replay in 2012, if she is up to it. if obama and his blogtrolls really think they will have any cred in the party after his historic defeat, they are truly deluded

  119. Here is my theory.

    We have lost our luster in the world through this evil administration. Most countries despise us. We long to buff up that image and what better way than to show the world how “eglitarian” we really are than by handing the WH to a black candidate? We will have achieved the following as well:

    a. it will assuage our guilt and wash away the sins of the past.
    b. purge the party of the Clintons
    c. establish a “unity” party (your guess is as good as mine to the meaning) as the new coalition
    d. delete “dynasty” from the system
    e. satisfy the AAs by any means necessary, even going as far to label opponents racist and getting away with it.
    f. present a candidate who “transcends” the norm

    I will even go so far to suggest that the DNC and the supers are afraid of any backlash that would eminate from the black community and are willing to sacrifice a candidate because sexism is tolerated above all. Thoughts?

  120. Great post RD! I enjoy your writing so much – it’s a nice haven to take a breath, regain strength, and then trot back out into the battlefield to press onward!

  121. Pat, you speak the truth. Sexism in all its hateful forms is totally acceptable.
    On the lighter side: I’ve noticed that some of Bill’s ties are the same color as Hillary’s pants suits. And I think that is COOL.

  122. I’d like to add one more thing, speaking only for myself:

    This has become about more that Barack Obama and the current primary season for me. The primaries and my support for Clinton have become a galvanizing event, but now, this about what kind of alternative bus we want to ride along in. As in, what can the new progressive blogosphere/movement/community be?

    The thing that has come to scare me about the Obama supporters is that their echo chamber of Dem party establishment and big money media produces zero accountability for their leader. Now, more than ever, the infrastructure of progressive accountability is crucial.

    The fight doesn’t end with the nomination. Methinks the fight just begins, regardless of the outcome, in terms of how the community of liberal-progressive accountability builds and drives its bus. That is the larger fight, for me.

    Those who say: “fall in line and shut up, it’s not about YOU” are making it about THEM. I believe this is about a renewed progressive blogosphere, and the ideals it works for, not about their narcissistic notions of party loyalty. The Obama campaign deliberately chose to make this primary about the candidate as a phenomenon, not about issues. I want more. It’s not about him.

    Just my two cents.

  123. Pat: Bingo!!

  124. Obama is ahead because he focused on rich-delegate red states that will still be red in Nov.- while declaring crucial states like OH, PA, MA, etc don’t matter.
    And he’ll rely on the Clintons to campaign for him in those states Hillary won and needed in Nov.

    Obama is a con!

  125. katiebird, on May 26th, 2008 at 1:06 pm Said:
    Five Thirty?
    Corrente is NOT an anti-Hillary blog. Please do not say THAT again.

    I disagree with you. They are very much like Daily Kos, from whom people here are on strike.

  126. Kacey — It’s not your name it’s your content. We are operating a refuge here and abuse comments are removed.

    I don’t think this blog is a good fit for your interests. But please feel free to start your own. There’s a WordPress link at the bottom of this page. Check it out.

    We don’t have space for you here.

  127. Is that what such a mad thirst for power reduces people to?
    I’m guessing he said something that was accurate and that Obama fans didn’t want to hear, and as per usual the only counter argument they have is that their opponent is crazy? Sure, the Clintons are insane, power mad, unhinged, destructive, and irrational.. except nothing they do or say gives any evidence of this, and the vast majority of the voters don’t seem to believe it either.

    The thing that has come to scare me about the Obama supporters is that their echo chamber of Dem party establishment and big money media produces zero accountability for their leader.
    On the blogs their only mode seems to be attack attack attack, Hillary is evil, outrage outrage outrage. I don’t know where they’ll find a fresh target because my gut is telling me McCain doesn’t quite fit the bill, so perhaps they’ll go straight on with the Hillary bashing all the way til November, one way or another. Either that or, should Obama be nominated and she has to campaign for him, they’ll obsess over whether she’s been appropriately deferential enough to win their respect. This will be infuriating and I guess it will be up to us to stay cool and not get baited.

  128. Five Thirty, that’s an argument you’ll have to have over there or on your own blog. Here? No.

    Please don’t bring it up again.

  129. What ever happened to John Edwards after his big endorsement? Did Hillary scare him back into his cave?

  130. Folks,

    A little perspective.

    There has not been a complete purging at all the other blogs. I don’t know Corrente so I won’t comment on it but I do still ink to Lambert’s posts and he’s up. Jeralyn at Talk Left has made it clear that folks can disagree up until the balloons drop in Denver. Taylor may have competing posts up on her front page but that woman reaches more non-blog people with her pro-Hillary posts than most people.

    We may feel that we are running out of space. (I left a couple of blogs I loved much earlier in the election so I know how much it hurts.) But the reality is that we are building much better and stronger space.

    We have to be in this for the long haul. It will take a miracle for Hillary to defeat the DNC’s machinations (even though she has votes, support, and skills). That means we need to saddle up for the next four years.

    [But know this as well. The majority of Americans are already out there with us. Most gave up politics and media years ago.]

  131. So I was at lunch in my very, very Obama friendly city and we were sitting next to two African American women, one who was probably in her twenties, like me, and a woman who was probably closer to my mother’s age.

    Towards the end of our meal, I heard the younger one ask her older relative if she supports Obama and my ears perked up right away. I didn’t mean to listen, I know it was rude, but we were less than 3 feet from them. The woman responded no, I support Hillary. And then the other woman asked well, what will you do if Obama gets the nomination? And the Hillary supporter did not skip a beat, she said calmly I keep praying for a miracle, but if he gets it, I will write Hillary in.

    I looked up at my Obama supporting partner (he isn’t a Hillary hater, he is from Chicago and feels loyalty to Obama and doesn’t like the idea of Bush, Clinton, Bush, Clinton but will vote for her in the general if she gets the nomination) across the table from me and my eyes just filled with tears. I had to stop myself from yelping, “Me too” and giving this woman a huge hug.

    We are not alone. This woman is not a blogger who sits in front of her computer all day, she is just a Hillary supporter out in the world. If the experiences I have been having with random Hillary supporters are any indication, we will not fall in line in November.

    When the other woman pressed her a bit more, she just explained that she doesn’t understand what Obama has actually done in his life to get the nomination and she talked about the many ways in which Hillary has already helped people – she said she feels certain that Hillary will fight for meaningful change.

    This is the SECOND such random encounter I have had in the last two weeks. About a week and a half ago I was in a cab talking to my partner about when I was going to be making calls for Hillary and the driver turned and told me he was so happy that I was working for Hillary and he just went on and on about how he and his wife love her so much and they cannot understand why people have been so horrible to her. We talked about how horrible the media is for awhile and about how we don’t have faith that Obama will actually do anything. And then he said without any prompting from me if she doesn’t get it, I won’t be voting, my whole family will just stay home. My partner then asked him well, what if she is VP, what then…and he just kind of shook his head sadly and said, no, it just hurts too much. And I knew exactly what he meant. She hasn’t been given a fair shake, and I deeply resent that.

    This has also been interesting, I think, for my partner to watch unfold because he has sort of assumed that most Hillary supporters would fall in line. He sees me as an extreme since I am so active on her behalf. But I think these two very random encounters from people who are in all likelihood not part of the online community or part of the fringe in any way have started to open his eyes….

    Stand strong. We are not alone. And if the DNC refuses to wake up and see who the true progressive is, while disenfranchising two states, they will pay in November with a huge loss.

  132. Ah, JJ (blinking eyes)

    I had a similar experience. A woman I work with doesn’t think she can vote for either Obama or McCain (and her husband agrees)

  133. Maybe this theory is a bit “fishy” but we salmon folk are known to hang out isomewhere in the deep blue beyond. Reading these posts, it occurred to me that the appeasement wing of the “democratic ” party will find it easier to kumbaya with blue dogs and the senate repubs if (take a deep breath and dive) 1) Reagan-praising and repub appeaser Barry is elected president and 2) Dems have confined their trash talk to Bush (not repubs in general) and (ta-da!) the evil Clintons. Viola! Both sides of the aisle can now continue to happily enrich themselves into the forseeable future ‘cuz they haven’t caused any unfixable breaches with those whose votes they need.

  134. I guess they had some of their best propagandists far behind enemy lines. They are pulling out all the stops now. We must resist.

    OK now I am waiting for RD, KB and Gary to suddenly turn around and lecture us on how Hillary Just Can’t Win.

    At that point, I will know that the Body Snatchers are HERE and they are eating the humans.

  135. jacilyn,

    I don’t think so…..

  136. Chicago Dyke has a great sense of timing. Let’s unite right after Obama pushed a meme that had Clinton threatening him with assassination. It might work better to form that type of ‘unity’ talk in the form of a threat. ‘Look at what Obama and his out-of-control, thuggish supporters did to one of the wealthiest, most powerful women in the nation while our party watched and cheered. Think about how much more he could do to you. Vote Democratic–or face the consequences.’

  137. […] Obama nomination — after the selective but intentional disenfranchisement of Michigan and Florida, the relentless race-baiting by Obama and his surrogates, and the venom from his supporters — […]

  138. […] I agree with the first half of this statement from riverdaughter: “The media, Obama campaign and the DNC are now engaged in a type of psychological warfare on […]

  139. Little Sister you nailed the “New Politics”


    ‘Look at what Obama and his out-of-control, thuggish supporters did to one of the wealthiest, most powerful women in the nation while our party watched and cheered. Think about how much more he could do to you. Vote Democratic–or face the consequences.’

  140. River is exactly correct. The media is trying with all its collective mite to disappear Hillary–the problem is that over 17,000,000 Americans can still see and hear her!
    Go Hill Go!

  141. For those who wish to stay together in a long term commitment to the ideals and rinciples that Hillary Clinton has spent a lifetime promoting, http://Together4Us.com offers access for activists, funders, students, policy-makers and ordinary people to come together in support of each other and their goals for America. Please come to our website and join, use the code below to put our linked logo on your website and distribute our message and this code to all your network. Spread the word. We will be happy to put up a reciprocal link, your own co-branded web page on our site, or your own blog.

    Thanks so much,
    Gretchen Glasscock,

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