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Anglachel says it’s in Obama’s court

I was going through withdrawal today and then, miraculously, I see that Anglachel has a post.  Missed the Bus is her way of talking everyone off the ledge.  Not everyone is there but some of us are getting a bit testy with the ones who are getting hysterical.  Like we want to line up and slap the person spazzing out like they did in the movie Airplane.

According to Anglachel, Obama is in a bit of “a tight spot” on this whole FL and MI delegation thing:

But, we’re looking at a lady or tiger situation here, or rather a co-dependent win with the lady and a crushing defeat you will never recover from tiger. Fail to seat Hillary’s supporters while their votes still count and you lose in November. Seat them and you risk losing the delegate lead and get relegated to VP. (And, yes, Hillary will make Obama her VP without batting an eye.) If you still somehow managed to squeak out the delegate count, you instantly make her VP, thereby legitimizing your biggest political opponent, or you lose in November. There’s no recovery from that. Failing to give respect and power where it is due only strengthens your opponent for the next round.

To be honest, he has completely failed my test.  Waiving the rules is something he should have done months ago.  And now he is essentially saying. “Don’t look at me, it’s all in the DNC’s hands.”  Not so fast, Barack.  We know how the DNC has been stacking the deck for you.  Donna Brazile has allbut threatened to take her dishes and go home if the Superdelegates do their jobs and nominate the more electable candidate.  You can *try* to pin it on the DNC but that’s just a cowardly way out.

So, now he is no leader, not confident and a coward.  Great!  Just great.  And this will be our leader of the free world after George W. Bush relinquishes his throne.

Not. Bloody.  Likely.

57 Responses

  1. Not bloody likely? Austin Powers?

  2. I believe that phrase predates Austin Powers, International man of Mystery.

  3. I get tired of people saying this race is about Hillary and all Hillary has to do is ask us and we’ll get on board. All Obama has to do is choose her as VP, and we’ll all be one big happy family.

    Unity, unity, unity. Screw unity.

    We aren’t cultists, she isn’t our leader. We see things that are happening and the only way to change them is to prevent a win. It’s as simple as that.

    4 years is a helluva lot shorter than my lifetime. I can wait for what we need. I’m a patient person.

  4. You are probably right 🙂 As a non native speaker of English, all I can think when I hear “bloody” is either Harry Potter or Austin Powers. 🙂

  5. just to refresh your memory about exactly what the clinton campaign said when they signed the dnc pledge, here it is. riverdaughter, i ask you to explain why, only now that it benefits her, hilary is changing her tune? she didn’t seem worried about disenfranchising floria and michigan when she was trying to to win in iowa and new hampshire

    Clinton Campaign Statement

    The following is a statement by Clinton Campaign Manager Patti Solis Doyle.

    “We believe Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada and South Carolina play a unique and special role in the nominating process.

    And we believe the DNC’s rules and its calendar provide the necessary structure to respect and honor that role.

    Thus, we will be signing the pledge to adhere to the DNC approved nominating calendar.”

  6. I’m sure it’s hard for the Obamabots to admit that the were duped by BO. I’m sure it makes them angry. They would like to take it out on Hillary and her supporters. If they are honest with themselves they will admit that this election is about substance and not feelings. Theirs or ours.

  7. One word, Caroline, democracy. Why are you against counting people’s votes?

  8. […] riverdaughter: Anglachel says it’s in Obama’s court […]

  9. Sorry to toot my own horn, but it’s very simple. It’s a matter of fundamental principles of 21st Century Liberalism. FrenchDoc and I are trying to get more discussion on reviving liberalism. I’m definitely interested in other’s views. Also, I’ll have more time to hammer away onthis once ye ol’ thesis is completed. (one day. GULP)

  10. again, i ask, if this was the concern why did the clinton campaign sign of on the pledge? harold ickes, from her campaign drafted the rules. terry maccauliffe threatened to half the delegates when he was running the dnc. you can call me an obamabot or whatever childish names you have in your arsensal. i was an ardent clinton supporter until she started doing things like pandering (hello gas tax holiday!) and changing the rules only when it served her. i can’t support someone doing that.

  11. Caroline,
    No one ever intended to permanently ban the Florida and Michigan delegates from the convention. Such a thing has never happened.

    Frankly Caroline, Hillary and her supporters are doing Obama an undeserved favor by continuing to push the issue. Obama seems too dense to understand. But if he gets the nomination with anything less than the full participation of all 50 states his nomination will NOT be considered legitimate.

    And THAT issue will be a dominant theme throughout what should be his week of triumph.

    Not that it’ll matter — your candidate doesn’t have the sticking power to make it through the summer. He’s already sinking in the polls. Do you seriously think the Super Delegates will nominate him after The Summer of Revelations?

    (shrug) So insult Hillary all you want. She and we are impervious to your sneers.

  12. * Obama/Clinton = FAIL! No one can save him.
    * Clinton/Anyone = FTW! Seriously, the woman could run with a LOLcat and destroy McCain.

  13. i ask you to explain….;)

  14. caroline:

    Did you even read that statement? I will be charitable and assume you didn’t. So here it is again:

    “We believe Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada and South Carolina play a unique and special role in the nominating process.

    And we believe the DNC’s rules and its calendar provide the necessary structure to respect and honor that role.

    Thus, we will be signing the pledge to adhere to the DNC approved nominating calendar.”

    Where did she agree to not counting votes in this statement?

  15. Davidson: I have a cat like that…

  16. Donna Brazile can quit the Democratic party for all I care, and she go can form her own party along with others sharing her attitude if she doesn’t want to work for the Republicans.

  17. how am i insulting hillary? it’s a perfectly legitmate question. and frankly if you supporters feel so passionately, you should be prepared to answer. her camp came up with the rules, and now she’s trying to change them only for her benefit. as for “the summer of revelations,” really are you serious? obama has been vetted already by the two of most powerful opposition research teams in washington.

  18. Sweetie (Caroline)

    Your conversation is boring. I’d advise that you consider starting your own blog. A helpful link to WordPress is at the bottom of this page.

    Further comments will go in the spam filter.

    This blog? This blog, Is not for you.

  19. Confluencians — let’s leave the sweetie alone.

  20. My favorite quote from Krugman is this:

    the nightmare Mr. Obama and his supporters should fear is that in an election year in which everything favors the Democrats, he will nonetheless manage to lose.

    That will show the sheer incompetence of his campaign for all the world to see. He had no business running with his thin resume. Dividing the party was not the answer. Waiting and thickening the resume — WAS.

  21. Sorry, I did not mean to hurt anybody’s feelings. I just get tired of the same pattern: “I demand an explanation” all I want is to understand you” kind of crap.

    I got tired of it soon when I visited DK and HP in a previous life. I left and found this place. Now I see the pattern follows many of our new visitors. I am all for dialogue but….

    Again, my apologies if my tired smiley face was considered disrespectful.

  22. Hillary supporters, if I may speak for us, support her because we believe that she will be the best president, which is why we continue to vote for her.
    I, along with many others, will not vote for him. To excerpt from a post by murphy on correntewire:
    “Obama is so bad that more than half of his OWN party wont vote for him. Repeatedly. Even after they’ve been told they MUST vote for him for the sake of unity. Even after their reproductive rights have been threatened if they dont vote for him. Even after they’ve been threatened with character assassination by being called racists, and stupid, and poor, and old, and hicks, and underemployed, and bitter and clingy, and even Female for Christ’s sake (eww). After all that pressure to get in line and vote for the guy, democrats, by the millions, STILL WONT VOTE FOR HIM..”
    We actually have enough information to decide who the best president will be.

  23. UpstateNY, I don’t think you hurt any feelings…

  24. The republicans will crush him and M. Obama. I doubt he would end up with 3 states.

  25. Kbird: I am afraid our latest new visitor may disagree but oh well, c’est la vie.

  26. Jeralyn has a post about Lanny Davis’s proposed solution on MI & FL

    Here is the gist of Lanny’s proposal:

    In Michigan, Clinton received 55 percent of the vote. According to Thegreenpapers.com, she thus should receive 73 pledged delegates based on that percentage.

    What about the 50 remaining uncommitted delegates, and 7 collectively cast for Sen. Chris Dodd and Rep. Dennis J. Kucinich, who were also on the ballot? Some of those 50 delegates might have been for Clinton as a second choice to candidates other than Obama, so it would be totally unfair to award all 50 delegates to Obama….Obama was not forced by party rules to remove his name — he chose to do so.

    The Rules Committee has several options. The fairest would be to allocate those 57 pledged delegates, to Clinton and Obama by the same ratio of their standing to one another in the average of the most recent Michigan statewide polls prior to the Jan. 15 primary.

    Or perhaps one Solomonic compromise, more generous to Obama than to Clinton, would be to divide the remaining delegates approximately 50-50 between the two of them, 28-27 (giving Clinton the extra delegate since she led in all the latest statewide polls prior to Jan. 15).

    Florida’s compromise solution is even easier. Clinton won 50 percent of the vote, while Obama won 33 percent of the 1.7 million Democratic votes cast. According to Thegreenpapers.com, that would give Clinton 105 delegates and Obama 69 delegates. That leaves 11 elected John Edwards delegates yet to decide, as well as 13 still unpledged superdelegates. (Eight supers have already decided for Clinton and five have decided for Obama).

    Just like Anglachel, Lanny puts the ball in Obama’s camp.

    If more than 2.3 million Democrats in Michigan and Florida are told their votes didn’t count even though their party leaders were willing to revote, that could anger them, to put it mildly. If they blame Obama for not supporting the revote while still blocking a fair solution by the Rules Committee, essentially not permitting their January votes to count, they are likely to be angrier still — if, that is, he is the Democratic Party’s nominee. In a close election that could mean the difference between the Democratic candidate carrying or losing Michigan and Florida.

    Is it worth risking the White House in November by not accepting this fair solution?

    So Obama, what say you?

  27. Caroline: They signed a pledge not to campaign. She left her name on the ballot. As Howard Wolfson explained last week, no one expected that voters would turn out for the primaries but they did in much highter numbers than anticipated. If the states had seen only small turnouts, some other solution might have been found. But with these numbers, the primaries must be respected. Now, let’s go back to the name of the ballot thing. Hillary behaved in a manner that is consistent with respecting the voters. She didn’t attempt to game the system. She treated it like a legitimate primary whether the DNC would count them or not. Neither Edwards or Obama can make that claim. She also flew to Florida the day after the primary and said she would fight for their votes. Neither of the others did. She’s been on board with these two states since January. This is before she ever thought she’d need them. In this case, there was simply no reason not to treat the voters as anything less than legitimate. And this goes to show you that Obama’s judgment ain’t worth spit. Now, if Obama acknowledges them, Clinton comes out the winner and these states are going to remember who their champion was. If he doesn’t acknowledge them, add them to the loss column along with Appalachia. Who else is planning to piss off? Who will be left to vote for him?

  28. My feelings about FL,MI.

    The race has turned out to be a tie, pitting 17 million against 17 million passionate supporters. Not like where Huckabee trailed.

    Not like any other race that has gone to the convention. Kennedy was 1000 delegates behind Certer.

    Since it is a tie, it is important that voters desires are truly known and accounted. (revote in MI would have been smart, could have unified) So if FL, MI are to be punished, why not SC and NE too? All 4 were ahead of Super Tuesday.

    Justice was an important core value of the olde Democratic Party, the one that Brazile tossed away so cavalierely ,the poor, the old, the disabled, the disenfranchised, the 60 cents on a dollar crowd.

    It was a great marketing ploy, because you can be sure that the teevee will pander to the candidate of such a desirable demographic – the young and the rich – with vague desires to end ‘partisanship’.

    But Democrats are not Libertarians. And the Party cannot be turned into a party of Libertarians.

  29. riverdaughter: i would actually like to have a debate about this, but katiebird has put me in the spam filter and i can’t respond. i this is your site – i get it – but welcome the chance to talk to you about this

  30. caroline, I’m curipus to know what “rules” can supercede the basic principles of our party? If you twist logic enough, you can talk yourself into ignoring the initial votes of MI and FL. But you CAN’T make a case for denying revotes and excluding those states from the process entirely. This is what is so ludicrous about all of this. “The process was flawed, the process was unfair, we can’t really explain why but it was.” “Okay, we’ll give youa do-over that completelky benefits you, Edward is out of the race and you have better prospects now than you would have had then under any circumstances.” “F— that s—, we’re way better off with disenfrachisment, why take chances? We won’t be able to make arguments about the process being unfair then, so we’ll have to just obstruct the process entirely.”

    I’d have more respect for you guys if you just flat out admitted that you don’t care about the process, the system, or the rules, and if Donna and Howard wanted to stand outside with bily clubs, that’d be a-okay by you provided Obama was the beneficiary. But this bs about the rules and how Clinton supposedly supported them isn’t at all persuasive. She was willing to accept revotes, though she didn’t have to and the liklihood was that it would adversely affect her. Obama has fought tooth and nail to exclude the voters of FL and MI from the democratic process. There’s no amount of specious arguments that can ever make that right.

  31. Caroline,

    The “Cinton camp” had nothing to do with those rules. One DNC member, Harold Ickes, is now part of the Clinton campaign – and I’m sure he’ll be the first to admit that awarding MI/FL the “death penalty” was a mistake.

    The memo you site sounds to me like the Clinton campaign is simply acknowledging the ruling of the DNC – but Hillary is on record, then and now, saying that we can’t ignore FL/MI. However, what any candidate or campaign said back then is irrelevant. We’re talking about a core ideal of the Democratic Party – which is “count the damn votes”! Should 2.3 million voters be punished over a scheduling conflict?

    Another myth going around is that it is only Hillary who is pushing, or “stirring up” this issue. In fact, the May 31st meeting was scheduled to hear the challenges coming directly from those states. The media and the Obama camp refuse to acknowledge how passionate the voters are in those states. They want their voice to be heard in this nominate process.

  32. The thing people like caroline don’t seem to get is that it isn’t a matter of rulz vs. not rulz, or of who said what about the rulz when. It’s a matter of right vs. wrong, and smart vs. stupid. Taking away the votes of average ordinary Democrats is wrong. Alienating the voters in Florida and Michigan is stupid. Taking the position that Michigan and Florida’s primaries shouldn’t count, even though that was back when it looked like it probably wouldn’t matter, was wrong and stupid. So Clinton’s campaign has changed it’s position? Better late than never!

  33. caroline: there’s nothing to debate. Either Obama respects the voters even though it might not be in his favor or he doesn’t. There are no shades of gray on this issue. There is only one right thing to do if he has any hope of winning in the fall. No half measures will do.
    I didn’t invent this scenario but the way out of it is clear. He can not win if he doesn’t seat them fully now and he may very well lose the nomination if he does. And yet, that is the right thing to do. You can not punish voters for the political games of the legislature and expect them to like you for it later. Nah, Gah, Happen.
    That’s why Katiebird won’t let you debate it. It would be a pointless exercise on your part and just annoying to us.

  34. cool. looks like you took it off. the irony of being censored on a htread about democracy was pretty rich.
    i agree with you that a compromise must be reached – that to neglect florida and michigan would have dire consequences in the fall. but it seems that the clinton campaign had been amenable to a compromise – terry maccaullife said recently that giving the delegation half a vote would be fair – and now they seem to be moving the goal posts again. i find it disingenuous that the clinton campaign has changed their stance on this so many times

  35. oy!

  36. Caroline, HRC in no way broke the pledge. She signed it, yes; but nothing in the document declared that they had to remove their name from the ballot. Obama removed his voluntarily in order to suck up to Iowa and NH; he made a rational choice for his situation at the time, but he chose to do that. He did not need to, according to the pledge. Hillary stayed on, because she was looking past more than the first couple of primaries- in short, she played a game of political chicken, and she won. The woman doesn’t cheat; she plays hard, and fast, and smart, and within the rules.

    Pretty much exactly what you’re looking for in a president, actually.

  37. Who CARES what Terry MacAuliffe said? I’m sorry, but this isn’t about Clinton or Obama. It’s about the VOTERS. They’re not political footballs to be thrown around by back room insiders. Was it that so hard for you to understand? ‘are you from MI–join me in protest, they’re moving goalposts by trying to give you the same rights in the party as the voters of Alaska–can you imagine???’

    Jesus, this isn’t a game. (And god, look up “censorship,” your victim complex is showing. Absolute right to vote, check. Right to take up bandwidth on a blog that’s not your when you’re 100% to get your own? OMG, censorship comperable to Nazis!!! Nobody knows the oppression you’ve seen, and the ironic parallels to democracy are so readily apparent).

  38. Caroline: We don’t censor. We simply provide you with the opportunity to post elsewhere.
    We have no intention of arguing with you about such a core Democratic principle. We do not indulge people’s fantasies. Half votes might have been negotiable when there was still the possibility of a revote. It would have been a reasonable compromise. Obama chose neither the compromise or the revote. Therefore, he is stuck having to agree with seating the full delegation without punishment. The voters of Florida did everything they could to rectify the situation. He should have taken what was behind door number 2. But he didn’t. Too bad for him that he’s in this pickle. I’m sure glad I didn’t pick him as my candidate because this move was just politically stupid.

  39. frankly if you supporters feel so passionately, you should be prepared to answer.

    You know, frankly, I am getting sick of that attitude.

    You have no call to knock entire states out of the union.

    If the DNC had cut their delegates in half, that I would have supported. But they have gone way beyond that. They have completely eradicated the influence of two huge, important states – just because they are stacking the deck for a particular candidate.

    The punishment was way in excess of anything those rules called for. Not only did they double the actual delegates stripped from half to “None at all”, but they also have gone out of their way to completely disappear both states – trying to insinuate that the elections were illegitimate, removing popular vote totals, and taking away any momentum that might have resulted.

    This – plus Obama’s own passive-aggressive hijinks (such as running ads in Florida and trying to have it both ways with his name off/not really off the ballot in MI) – pretty much guarantees that Obama wins the nomination, but in a way that looks “crooked as a dog’s hind leg”.

    And that is going to cost him the general election.

  40. Hi all

    Was over a hillaryis44.org- Cynthia Ruccia group. She has started up her site. I’ve pasted her boycott NBC action plan below. I haven’t watched MSNBC/NBC since Feb, but Like Cynthia feel we should hit them where it hurts: their advertisers.
    I plan on writing a lettter and calling to each and everyone-like she said IMUS was fired when their started bleeding money. That was only one comment!
    Hillary has been bashed consistetly and nothing has been done!

    Our boycotters of NBC in Pittsburgh were interviewed by NBC. We will be cointinuing our boycott of NBC.

    Thank you for your participation in the NBC demonstrations last night. We had a WONDERFUL showing all over the country against NBC for failing to control their sexist comments on MSNBC!!! Their free ride is coming to an end!!

    From Cynthia Ruccia:

    Many of you were unable to attend a demonstration but this is an action EVERYONE can take. Contact the main MSNBC advertisers and let them know that their alliance with this station sends out a bad message. When Don Imus made his disgusting comments, it was a calling campaign to advertisers that got him off the air.

    Below are the main advertisers, their CEO’s, and contact info. Please call them 5 days in a row and register your outrage at NBC and objection to their sponsorship of NBC given their behavior. Have everyone you know do the same as well.

    Over 100,000 people have contacted us to express similar feelings. Let’s direct that effort to where it will make a difference. A script is provided if you need an example but speaking from your heart is always the most effective.

    1) Toyota
    Jim Lentz
    310-468-4000
    Torrance CA

    2) Nationwide Insurance
    Jerry Jurgensen
    614-249-7111
    Columbus, OH

    3) Geico
    Tom Nicely
    301-986-2500
    Chevy Chase, Maryland

    4) Enterprise Car Rental
    Andrew Taylor
    314-512-5000
    St. Louis, MO

    5) LensCrafters
    Kerry Bradley
    513-765-6000
    Mason, OH

    6) Johnson&Johnson
    William Weldon
    732-524-0400
    New Brunswick, NJ

    Please email this to EVERYONE in your universe!!!

    One other request, we’re compiling a list of sexist statements that come up on MSNBC and anyplace you regularly turn for campaign news. Please send us your BEST examples using “sexism example” in the subject line. We will provide this collection to everyone so they are prepared to give concrete examples when asked what they mean by “sexism in the media”. If wants to take this project on, choose one show, or anchor, (or candidate) and monitor him daily and help us determine the biggest offenders. Let us know who you’ve chosen to MONITOR. Use “Sexism Monitor” in the subject line.

  41. Caroline,

    The fact is, if the original rules of the DNC (Rule 20C) had been respected, cutting the delgations in half would have been the punishment. The problem with doing that now is that those states have already been punished. The principle of the scheduling rules is to respect the “sanctity” of Iowa and New Hampshire in the process – and that certainly has been accomplished. FL/MI have had zero effect on the process, and giving them 1/2 vote at this point would just further disrespect those states and their voters. Seating the full delegations is the only option.

    As others have mentioned, re-votes would have been the best solution – but we all know what happened to that.

  42. they double the actual delegates stripped from half to “None at all”

    err I meant to say, double the actual delegates stripped from half to both states having none at all.

  43. The hypocrisy of BO supporters is overwhelming .. directly from the big orangecheeto website – right out of markos mouth .. YOU see Hillary was right ‘then’.. lol ..

    kos
    “What’s more, Clinton was the only top-tier candidate to refuse the ultimate Iowa and New Hampshire pander by removing her name from the Michigan ballot. That makes her essentially the de facto winner since Edwards and Obama, caving to the cry babies in Iowa and New Hampshire, took their name off Michigan’s ballot. Sure, the DNC has stripped Michigan of its delegates, but that won’t last through the convention. The last thing Democrats can afford is to alienate swing states like Michigan and Florida by refusing to seat their delegates.

    So while Obama and Edwards kneecap their chances of winning, Clinton is single-mindedly focused on the goal.”

    no – I won’t link – Caroline

  44. this one you have to read…it made me cry.

    http://www.taylormarsh.com/archives_view.php?id=27785

  45. Ah, indigogrrl — I read that earlier and it did – it really did – make me cry.

    Thanks for posting the link.

  46. First of all, Obama is correct when he says it is not his decision regarding FL/MI.

    It’s not Hillary’s either, or mine for that matter.

    That doesn’t stop Hillary from speaking out. (Nothing stops me from speaking out, including common sense and self-preservation)

    Secondly, it doesn’t matter who supported the decision to disenfranchise two states.

    The decision was WRONG.

    Everyone believed that their would be a resolution to the problem, and no one expected the race to be this close at the end.

    I don’t believe that the DNC rules committee decision was part of a nefarious plot to help Obama. But by Super Tuesday it was obvious that it was not in Obama’s best interest to hold revotes or count the original primary votes. This is why Donna Brazile-nut has dug in her heels, and it;s why Obama has obstructed a fair resolution.

    Unfortunately for Obama, he didn’t win the nomination yet, nor will he with a margin exceeding the number of disputed delegates.

    If he won the nomination with 500 delegates to spare, nobody would really care that much and he could generously agree to seat all the delegates.

    Now he’s stuck between a rock and a hard place. If he doesn’t seat the delegates, he loses in November. If he does seat them, he loses in August.

  47. Brilliant, myiq2xu — (nodding rapidly)

  48. semidi is a “low information” voter (Isn’t that anyone who doesn’t support Obama?) and damn proud of it.

    However, he has some pointed question for the “well informed” in his post Atrios is in a Snit:

    Atrios has his nose out of joint because the LA Times has run a spot-on article about hyper-partisanship in America and its dangers. According to a snarky Atrios:

    Apparently political participation is bad because the country is much better off when the low information mushy middle decide elections.

    Knowledgeable people with well-informed opinions about policy: bad. Easily manipulated people who don’t pay attention and therefore live in some sort of Arcadian plane free of the taint of knowledge: good.

    “Knowledgeable people with well-informed opinions about policy” like Pam Spaulding, and Steve Benen, and Joshua Micah Marshall? People who are so “informed” that they’ve chosen to support Barack Obama, a man with all of the political experience of a high school student government officer? People who’ve completely overlooked his lack of qualifications, his sexism, his race-baiting, his practicing of personal destruction politics against Clinton, while he hypocritically decries such practices? People who are part of an online group that has all the hallmarks of a cult of personality and who refuse to acknowledge that he’s not only unelectable, but that he shouldn’t be elected?

    Uh, yeah. Thanks, Duncan, but I’d rather be with the “mushy middle” on this one; a majority of that middle has rejected Obama so far, so I think it’s doing pretty well. Certainly better than what used to be called the “reality-based community,” most of which has chosen to eschew Realityville in favor of Obamaland.

    (emphasis mine)
    Oh snap!

    Great stuff. Great stuff.

  49. I’m so sick of the so-called “liberal” blogosphere consistently showing such contempt for the voters. No wonder they don’t care if Florida and Michigan have their votes counted. Hillary won those states, so surely too many of them are unworthy, “low information” voters and therefore should not count as much as their special, important, better votes.

    While I’m on the subject Atrios is also a prime example of the attitude (also seen at the orange cheeto blog) that anyone who doesn’t do what you want has no motive for their actions aside from being a coward and a fool . No wonder Hillary makes them angry, she’s clearly neither and they just can’t make her go away.

  50. Intelligence and education can be a trap.

    As you might guess from my handle, I have always done well on IQ tests and found academic life fairly easy. I don’t take my handle seriously though, because I know I am not the smartest person on the planet (top 10, maybe?)

    Intelligence and education breed elitism. While it may piss you off, it does not harm you to be condescended to.

    Being condescending to others however, is not only a moral failing, it is weakness.

    When you think you are smarter and better informed than others, you stop listening to them. Why bother, since they obviously don’t know what they are talking about, right?

    The etymology of communicate is:

    “From the participle stem of Latin commūnicāre (“‘to make common, share’”), from commūnis (“‘common’”).

    The concept of communication includes both giving and receiving information. When you start to condescend, you stop receiving.

    This causes a few problems. The first is that when you stop listening to people, you don’t understand their needs. You also lose the information they are offering, which means you decisions are based on incomplete or incorrect data.

    Another problem is that when you stop listening to people, they stop listening to you.

    Being smarter or better educated than other people does not make you right. Nor does it make them stupid.

    The ultimate trap of being condescending is that you become your own echo chamber.

  51. myiq2xu: I have no idea what my IQ is. Seriously. My parents were in the 130s range so I figure I’m about there. But I always figured it was better not to know. That way I am not limited by a number. I can always assume it is within my capacity to learn something new. Of course, this has not proven to be true when it comes to learning to program but maybe I will learn it in my next life when I plan to come back as a programmer living in Hyderabad and I will have job security.

  52. MaBlue, great post by semidi, but did you read the Obot comments at his site? horrible..horrible They truly are a mob.

  53. RD: As my grandma used to say “If you’re so smart, why ain’t you rich?”

    I do well in certain academic type things, which helped tremendously with college and law school. But mathematics and technical stuff (like programming) are not my forte.

    I have an excellent memory, but that part of the brain that controls eye-hand coordination, not so much.

    I’ve met a few real geniuses, and I know I’m not one of them.

    My daughter says it’s better to be pretty than smart, and she should know, she’s both.

  54. myiq: Brook really is a genius. So smart it’s scary. Talking to us must seem like talking to carrots. I swear she just humors me most if the time.

  55. Lot’s of people call me smart.

    Most of them add the word “ass”

  56. myiq (smile) I think you mean “est”

  57. rd: “talking to carrots” (giggle)

    That makes me laugh.

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