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Thursday: And now, a little something about race

Good Lord, the sweeties have been out in force the last couple of days, catapulting the propaganda. And just like any potentially successful organism, the sweetie has adapted to its environment. They tried playing the feminine guilt card on us until we made it clear that we were not the mommy half of the party and were not going to rescue young women from their careless mistakes as long as they still had an opportunity to make a rational choice. So, now they’re turning to race.

One particularly annoying theme from yesterday’s sweetie attack was that Kentuckians pretty much admitted that they were racists in exit polls. “They admitted it! Yes, it’s true. One in five Kentuckians said they were basing their voting decision on race and isn’t it obvious that Obama couldn’t win there and why should we as a party spend so much time and money on a bunch of ignorant people who will not be enlightened? Jeez, don’t you fricking Conflucians get it? Are you still willing to sell out the party for race?”

Damn, those numbers keep getting in the way. If 20% of Kentuckians won’t vote based on race, that must mean that 80% were more than willing to overlook race to vote for the candidate who appeals to them in some other way. THAT means that if Barack Obama had spent some time actually talking to some of the working class voters in Kentucky about what is important to them, he might not have lost the state by a humiliating 35%. So, what are we to conclude from this? If it is true that 20% of Kentuckians are racists, Obama wasted a perfectly good chance to score with a vast majority of DEMOCRATS in Kentucky and this is a conscious decision he is making that has nothing to do with race.

Now, it turns out that Conflucians do not share the characteristics of the typical Clintonista. That is because the stereotypical Clintonista, that stupid, uneducated, working class woman Clinton supporter is a myth. We actually can think our way out of a paper bag. And if you sweeties can’t think more logically than this you are really not going to be very persuasive in getting us to change our minds. We really aren’t interested in voter assisted suicide of the Democratic party because the party leadership and superdelegates are just bound and determined to use Obama’s candidacy as a teachable moment on race.

Race, after all, is an artificial social construct. (For those of you interested in the relationship of evolutionary change and “race”, I highly recommend Jared Diamond’s book, Guns, Germs and Steel. ) It has no meaning in the biological sense. It is merely the regional phenotypic expressions as a result of the organism adapting to its environment. Personally, I’d like for all of us to get over it. But it’s not going to happen this year because instead of Obama raising our consciousness about race, he used race as a weapon against his very own constituents. Gene Lyons had a recent column about how angry and alienated Democrats are about how our party has disintegrated. Those of us who will not vote for him or are seriously considering making a statement, have two major reasons for it: 1.)In comparison to Hillary Clinton, he is embarrassingly unready and 2.) he has used race to divide his own party in the most pernicious way possible. There are other reasons relating to gender as well and I have a message to Gary Hart and Bill Richardson. We are NOT irrational females who have no reason to be mad and it is unlikely that we will come around in the fall. When you are in a hole, stop digging.

So, dear sweeties, go back to the drawing board and see if you can find another reason why we should vote for Obama in the fall. But before you come back here, you might want to get rid of your own prejudices about us.

In the meantime, here is a blast from the past that I think speaks eloquently about what makes Clintonistas tick. We are in solidarity with the common people:

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93 Responses

  1. Mind-boggling writing ability, Riverdaughter:

    “We really aren’t interested in voter assisted suicide of the Democratic party because the party leadership and superdelegates are just bound and determined to use Obama’s candidacy as a teachable moment on race. ”

    There was more respect to my second-grader’s intellect during black history month this year. What collective insanity has kidnapped this party–I don’t know. But maybe there is meaning and purpose. This has been my year to change the parts of my life that are insane and/or paralyzed. And this primary season is a banner for all that is broken. We have rising numbers with us to forge a new way. Maybe THIS is the change we have been waiting for.

  2. The racial element of this primary is scary. Obama is playing a game of chicken with the AA community. If he is nominated and wins, then the AA community is in great shape to take control of the Democratic Party. When you hear some of Brazille’s comments (Sorry, I don’t have a cite, but the one I am thinking of is to an AA group and she says that on Feb 5th the power of the AAs will be recognized), you get the feeling that that is the plan. But if he loses the nomination, then it confirms that AAs are not ‘needed’ to win the nomination. If he wins the nomination and loses the GE, then it allows the DNC to say “we tried an AA candidate , you got your shot, now lets all move on. Racial discrimination is finally finished. I think we are looking at the third outcome it makes me so sad.

  3. Thank you, Riverdaughter. I adore Gene Lyons, and he has been passionate in his opposition to the beltway media narrative throughout this primary campaign. This is the best piece I’ve seen by him yet. The people he has quoted sound exactly like us here at The Confluence. I am convinced that these attitudes toward Obama are widespread.

    Obama cannot win the election and he is destroying the Party. Perhaps it will be for the best in the end. Perhaps a phoenix will rise from the ashes of this weak, corrupt Democratic Party–a new party that harnesses the power of the people in the Southern, Midwestern and border states.

  4. Have they asked the race question after every primary? See,s we jave been hearing about it lately but not all along? And do they consider AA’s in that percentage, too? If AA’s are included, and why wouldn’t they be, then racism is not as big of a factor as it seems. Because racism only works in one direction, right?

  5. Speaking of racial issues, I just read that McCain is already talking to potential Veeps. The most interesting name is Bobby Jindal who is Indian-American. Parents were from Punjab (remember the Obama crack about Punjab). Also he is younger than Obama and a real go-getter, works like crazy, and technically from southern state. Obama would not look so new and different next to Jindal and McCain could defuse a great deal of the race baiting in one swoop. Very interesting.

  6. Riverdaughter, what you said!

    And Joaniebone, what you said too, the change we have been waiting for is US, the countless number of lifelong Democrats that won’t get in line just because the DNC says so.

    Do the Obama people actually want an asterisk (a la Barry Bonds) that explains he was appointed the nominatation, did NOT win the popular vote and excluded the votes of 2 states? Is that the “historical” candidacy Obama wants to have?

    BTW: I contacted the FDR people, I’m trying to get mom to babysit for me (she’s in Orlando), I want to go to the DC protest!
    So far, I do know from the Tampa area coordinator that transportation and lodging are paid by FDR for FL residents, and buses will leave on early Thursday morning.

    News from PR: Obama will be there tomorrow, Hillary will be there on Saturday – I don’t have the itinerary but I read on El Nuevo Dia’s (PR newspaper) website.

  7. SM,

    That’s great news about the buses and lodging for the protest. I hope you can go! For people from other states, Taylor Marsh has information up from The Committee to Count Every Vote. They are apparently organizing buses for protestors.

  8. riverdaughter, you continue to blow me away with your writing.
    “voter assisted suicide of the Democratic party”

    That is one of the most brilliant and dead on quotes of this campaign thus far. Applause, applause!

  9. Riverdaughter, I am so glad you left the Big Orange Cheeto and started you own thing here. Great Post!

  10. goldberry,

    You are one heck of a talented writer. Thanks for the link to Gene Lyons too. Like Bob Somerby, Gene is a rarity with an amazingly noise-resistent bull-shit detector.

  11. I have to take issue with one thing in this post.

    THe question that was asked to repondents was
    “Was race a factor in your vote”?

    Riverdaughter said:

    “One in five Kentuckians said they were basing their voting decision on race”

    They were not asked if their vote was based on race which seems to suggest it was ALL about race.

    My father is not a racist at all, but we had a conversation early in the primary, and he said he wasn’t going to vote for Obama because he thought America would not vote for an AA, and he didn’t want to lose against McCain.
    My dad would have answered YES to the exit poll, but he is in no way a racist.
    Jumping to the conclusion that people who answered yes to the question are racist is just that, jumping to conclusions.

  12. riverdaughter – go see Angalchel this AM – you’re mentioned prominently in a WONDERFUL post – it’s about unity versus the real issue…legitimacy.

  13. thanks guys but I really don’t know where this stuff is coming from. I just wake up in the morning and it’s there. Not like me at all. Spooky.

  14. Love that video. It’s the antithesis of the Obama campaign. This campaign has reminded me about who I am and what my values are. I lived in Hyde Park, Chicago, in the late 90s when Obama was just starting out. I had the condo in the art-deco building over looking Lake Michigan. The boyfriend/partner who was a doctor at the university of Chicago. I was surrounded by intellectuals, and ‘interesting’ people all the time. I remember when Obama was running for state senate and the flyers he had posted to electric polls. I didn’t vote for him then, and I won’t vote for him now. I’m sure I crossed paths with William and Bernadine and Michelle at some point. I don’t remember ever being organized by Barry Obama. But eventually I knew it was time to come home to NE Ohio and my people. As I said right before the Ohio primary, we live in NE Ohio we don’t have ‘hope.” Our gray weather, the Indians, the Browns, we are kicked in the teeth all the time. We want a fighter, not an inspirational speaker.

  15. riverdaughter, thank you for sharing this unknown but articulate and inspiring you with us. Your blog is one I read every morning and feel like a different and better person afterwards. Your commenters are extraordinary, too. Yes, THE COMMON PEOPLE — and Clinton is the only candidate who knows us and our beautiful country, and who has the real plans to help us.

  16. Riverdaugher:

    “I really don’t know where this stuff is coming from. I just wake up in the morning and it’s there. Not like me at all. Spooky.”

    That is a sign that you are really in the flow. You are opening up to the creative power of the universe and channeling it, spicing that inspiration with your down-to-earth intelligence and common sense.

    RD, you said something the other night, I can’t remember if it was after WV or KY–you said it feels good to be on the side of the good guys. Well that is the feeling I have. The country needs Hillary. We don’t need another “cool guy” with little knowledge or curiosity and less experience. We really need what Hillary has to offer.

    I truly believe we are at an important turning point in our country’s history. We must make Hillary the nominee or go down fighting. I will not give up hope. She can win this thing.

    From Walter Shapiro in Salon:

    There are those who see Clinton staying in the race out of ill-concealed ambition — whether it is a ploy to become Obama’s indispensable running mate or to lay the groundwork for an I-told-you-so 2012 campaign. Others go to the opposite extreme in theorizing about her delusion, denial or even wanton destructiveness.

    But what if — for the sake of argument — Clinton is merely doing what she always said that she intended to do, which is to scrap for every last delegate through the final primaries? What if she is actually moved by the you-go-girl enthusiasm she encounters hand-shaking her way along all the rope lines? What if she looks at the electoral map and broods about Obama’s potential difficulties in November in Ohio, Pennsylvania and Florida (all states that Clinton carried in the primaries)?

  17. RD, Great post. I love Gene Lyons too.

    OT, has anyone seen any information about groups going to DC for the 5/31 rally from Boston? BostonBoomer, Pat Johnson, BDBlue, I think you folks are Bostonians.. have you heard anything? Sorry for the interruption and thanks for any info you can share.

  18. Clintonistas just don’t get it–training wheels are permanently attached to Barack’s bicycle. Nothing may be allowed to disturb him as he peddles toward the White House.

    If somebody passes him, it won’t be Barack’s fault. Blame it on the dumb-ass rednecks and uncreative women who got in his way.

    They’re not worthy, anyway.

  19. Ben,

    You are sounding really inspired too these past few days. I’m so glad you joined us at The Confluence.

  20. A wonderful post, riverdaughter! For people who quote “the Math” all the time, the Obamans don’t seem to be very good at it. 80% is a lot of folks and a lot of wasted potential on Obama’s part.

    Bostonboomer – Another interesting article from Salon: Jan. 15, 2008. Looks like Obama was the one who was saying MI and FL wouldn’t matter even then, whereas our girl was ALWAYS intending to fight for the voters, if not the delegates.

    Clinton and Obama spar about meaning of FL and MI

  21. excellent post!

    I have a song/video suggestion for the site (would be great entry tune for HRC events, imho) “One Girl Revolution” by Superchic[k] – great lyrics, re: shot heard round the world (Annie O!) – and someone here mentioned that her delegate count is now 1776…

    I would link to a good vid, but there are many on YouTube and I am on dial up,.

    Anyway, thought it was a good theme song and wanted to toss the idea out there – esp if someone wanted to do an HRC version.

  22. Elixir,

    I posted something up the thread. At Taylor Marsh, there is information about signing up for buses. I really can’t go. I just have too much work and family issues to deal with right now.

  23. Hi All: Yep, the sweeties are out in full force, trying to use their twisted logic to counter our opinions and our decisions, as if we have no right to vote whatever goddamn way we want to, whether it be racial, sexist, drunken, drugged, irrational or “rational.”

    That’s the beauty of democracy. People, in all shapes, forms, and states of mind, get to have a vote.

    I feel abused by the sweeties who want me and my readers to change our minds. It’s abusive. And, it is even more abusive to try to look like you just want to have a discussion, but, in fact, you, the “sweetie” are just there to eat up people’s time… go fuck yourselves. The very definition of duress and fascism…

  24. John Judis in The New Republic writes that Hillary Clinton might have lost the nomination due to her efforts at “winning the support of the pro-Israel lobby.”

    Specifically, Hillary’s big mistake was backing the Kyl-Lieberman resolution which targeted the Iranian Revolutionary Guard as a terrorist organization. That resolution was drafted by Dick Cheney’s office and Congressional neocons as a part of the run-up to war with Iran.

    “Like her refusal to apologize for the October 2002 war resolution, her vote on Kyl-Lieberman may have stemmed from her ignoring the primary and thinking about the general election, or–as Helene Cooper suggested in The New York Times–it might have been an attempt to win support from the pro-Israel lobby,’ which strongly backed the resolution. Whatever the case, her vote was a political disaster. It confirmed the worst fears of anti-war Democrats about her foreign policy inclinations. Her rivals denounced her vote, and she had to answer for it in ads, mailings, and debates through early January. It gave Obama an enormous push at a time when he seemed to be floundering and laid the groundwork for his success in fund-raising and in the Iowa caucuses.”

  25. I’m thinking ahead to the upcoming primaries….in the last polls, SD has Obama ahead, Montana has Hillary ahead, Puerto Rico has Hillary ahead.

    Re the popular vote…..Anyone know how many voters there are in Puerto Rico?

    Will Hillary br “Gored?

    Thoughts?

  26. Thanks Boomer. I do believe, though, that we need to inspire OURSELVES and that we shouldn’t look to presidential candidates to inspire us. But I guess I’m doing the type of parsing I usually rail against. However, I guess my problem all along with the Obamans is that they go on about how he inspires them when he’s done nothing in his life to deserve that admiration. Hillary, on the other hand, wow, you can take some inspiration from her about standing up in the face of adversity. A speech, just words, shouldn’t inspire us. MLK’s and Lincoln’s speeches were phenonmenal but it was their actions that inspired. They gave speeches and backed them up with action. Obama just gives speeches and then uses race to divide us and and any other nasty cynical ploy to win. Seriously, if he truly was this great inspirational leader wouldn’t he want all the votes counted. …I could go on and on. Ugh.

  27. I noticed that Lyons, in listing the areas of the country who read him, did not mention the Northeast. I live NE of Boston and I read him. His comments from readers are pretty much universal ‘givens’ in this neck of the woods. It’s so obvious that Obama is playing the race card, and he’s the only one playing it, and he’s been doing it all along. Both in keeping his AA vote total high, and most astounding, in destroying the Clintons. Maybe that’s what exit pollers are talking about when they say race figured into their votes. But some D’s here will blindly go into the booth and vote for him because of the D after his name. I wont be one of them, at this point at least. .I value the country more than the party, and, along with a lot of other similarities, Obama’s lack of experience rivals Bush’s, with Obama having even less. The disaster that has been upon us for the last seven years will be nothing comapred to the disaster that most probably will result from Obama’s lack of experience and unbridled arrogance. As for the party, its ignoring of, and in some cases collusion with sexism will cost it for quite a while into the future.

  28. I’m interested in the thoughts of other Conflucians …

    Will Hillary be ” Gored” – i.e. ahead in the popular vote – lose the nomination…..

    What will be the backlash to this? I predict huge backlash….thoughts?

  29. Some in psychology suggest that race is a proxy measure for culture. That makes a lot of sense to me.

    The Obamaphiles over at Political Wire find the Hillary-Won-More-Votes argument simply exasperating. See, we have these RULZ. This is the new kind of politics that makes us the change we have been waiting for. The RULZ.

  30. Another point I want to make regarding race:

    Obama supporters are overstating that if Obama is not nominated, that AAs will revolt & leave the party.

    That’s a fair arguement IF Obama won fair & square. But suppressing 2 states of their vote is NOT.

    And I step back and think about me & the Latino vote. We are not monolithic, true, and our voting block is fractioned. But comparing numbers, we have more influence in the big states across the nation. California, Florida, New York, Arizona, New Mexico have huge Latino populations that vote.

    Many of us have parents or have ourselves immigrated from countries that do not have the greatest and bestest democracies, thus one of the many reasons for immigirating to the USA, to have a voice & vote.

    And the irony of all of this is that Latinos will ultimately be the ones to put Hillary way over the popular vote.

    I was talking to one of my closest friend who lives in PR, he says that the mood is among PPD (pro-free but associated state) party members is that despite that their party leadership endorses Obama, a lot of the buzz is that PPD rank-and-file members want Hillary because of all the work she did when Hurricane Georges ravished the island (I lived there at the time when it happened, it was awful), when she came to protest the bombing of Vieques, she supported and fought vigorously for PR funding during her senate career.

    Obama & minions have already started the drama with the “she already lost, why vote for a loser” bully tactics on PR blogs and news websites.

    But she is favored to win, 50% is in her favor (about 1 million), you could probably predict a possible count of 10% extra, which will easily hold her on top in terms of popular vote.

  31. great article!!!

    You should check out “Bought and Sold” at http://savagepolitics.com/?p=469

  32. Riverdaughter
    another fantastic juicy read!

    You are the framer for our vast leftwing conspiracy: beautiful! “voter assisted suicide of the Democratic party”

  33. Not to mention each individual has a right to determine their own criteria for supporting a candidate or not. The biggy for me is the divisiveness of the Obama campaign’s and wide ranging use of grievances and identity politics both race and gender they choose to wield as campaign strategies IMO not victimless or risk free choices that he made that’s the corss the line I can’t hold my nose part. To me it was a very corrupt choice and it was aided by Party; I now view him as someone willing to say a do anything associated with whomever literally for power and we can not have that again. While already an Independent I was must admit my shock at the Dem Party’s silence, the enabling of Obama’s platform of division by elected officials in Leaderships, their blind acceptance of this sowing of more hate more division in our communities was and is cowardly. Obama nor the Dem Party have my support now, I would find it harmful to our Country, as I did when the fringe CR sect controlled the Republican Party, to vote Obama or any other weak Dem into the Executive Branch, it is not something I or hopefully other’s interested in turning this country steming the decline should do.

  34. Sarah,

    I think the Clintons are more prepared and know more than we do about how this is going to play out. I don’t think she’d be going to the convention unless she knew she had a chance at winning this thing. I don’t think she’s interested in causing havoc, just winning the nomination.

  35. Sarah, as an FL voter, I can say that if Hillary is “Gored,” I can expect a mass exodus of Democrats, it’s already happening!

    I just can’t begin to fathom how the Blogger Boiz can sit there and say that the popular vote doesn’t count when 8 years ago, they were fighting tooth and nail over 537 votes.

    It’s wrong, they know it’s wrong, but today in 2008, they don’t want to BE wrong.

  36. Mawm: I don’t think that all people who answered “yes” to the “was race a factor in your decision” query are racists; a lot of them probably voted the way they did with the longer game in mind. One group motivated by nasty personal prejudice, the other motivated by a practical assessment of the rest of the voting population.

    But it does boil down to the same thing: voting for one person over the other due to skin tone.

    (Though I’d be interested to see that split along demographics as well — I’ve seen the way that answer tracks with the end total here: http://blog.beliefnet.com/stevenwaldman/2008/05/what-race-factor.html, but that still doesn’t tell you how that trended along racial lines of voters)

  37. Elixir, also add that she wants the voice of our votes to be represented. If Hillary loses, she wants to lose fair & square. She does not want to lose because someone cheated the votes of 2+ million people. And neither do we.

  38. Excellent writing, excellent choice of music.

    As usual.

    Thanks!

  39. The problem with the popular vote these days is that it changes a lot depending on what you do or do not count.

  40. Ryan,

    Where the will of the voter can be discerned, their vote should count.

    Period!

  41. I posted this at TM.

    I just thought about something Senator Clinton said in her speech yesterday. She brought up the Florida Supreme court ruling that stated that when the “intent of the voter” can be discerned, the vote should count.

    I just realized that she is making the case NOT to give Obama any delegates from Michigan. That is why she is quoting the FL supremes. The intent of the voter cannot be gleaned from the Uncommitted pile.

    Obama took his name off the ballot when he was NOT required to. He made a play to pander to Iowa, but guess what? Now, his little self-serving game is going to come back to bite him in the ass.

    Giving Obama the uncomitteds in MI is UNDemocratic!

  42. Niiiiice, RD!!!

  43. SM,

    She may be making that case in FL but do you think it translates to MI?

  44. Oops, sorry. I meant Mawm.

    Do you think HRC is making that case for MI also? I’m not sure the FL supreme court ruling wld translate to MI.

  45. Not to rain on a parade but it’s going to be hard to claim the popular vote when the no one will agree on what the popular vote is. To give Obama all the uncommitteds in Michigan is an ugly form of affirmative action. Actually, I would call it a quota.

    I think Hillary’s argument is that every single caucus or primary voter should be counted in every state and territory. Whoever has the most votes win. Her argument must be pure. We count every vote. Nothing more, nothing less.

  46. Mawm’s response is exactly the reason I left the Obama campaign. I was raised by a farmer and we had a saying, “You can’t beat a dead horse.” When I heard the racial remarks coming from the voters on the call sheets, I knew that a vote for Obama was investing in a losing game. The sad thing is, if one in five is voting on race, believe me, it isn’t just WV and KY, it is everywhere.

    It also scared me to think that, stirring this particular pot when we had come so far in race relations was definitely a bad thing. Just 40 years ago, that number was much higher. We have come so far and this could set us back years. The backlash from the race baiting in many areas is bringing out the militant types in droves.

    We did not need this and it is going to happen now, no matter who wins or loses.

    Such a shame for such a historic moment.

  47. Good catch Mawn . . . her whole speech read like an opening statement to the Rules Committee next week

    Has anyone heard whether CSPAN will televise May 31, 2008 meeting. I believe as of last night it was no.

    Maybe we should spend next week pressuring them to televise the event. The travesty must be on the record.

    (River, I stand in awe of your post. You have been on fire this week.

  48. Ben, you seem to be up on this and I don’t really understand; how does Texas have an election and a caucus, which ended up giving Obama a big push even though Hillary won the popular vote? I understand that the delegates are alloted by proportion in districts, but this Texas two-step bugs me.

  49. RD, you continue to be an inspiration. Every morning you are the first place I go to on the computer.

    My hopes and dreams reside here where I consider the regular posters as “friends” to the end.

  50. Elixir, on May 22nd, 2008 at 10:58 am

    I can’t know what she is thinking, but after I thought about the quote “When the intent of the voter can be discerned”, I thought about MI, and the fact that his supporters voted Uncommitted. How, though, could you discern Obama from an Uncomitted vote? It is impossible, and if Hillary is going to fight for Voter rights, she can not be seen making a back room deal with Obama over uncommitted votes. It goes against what she has been saying, especially what she said yesterday about the people choosing the pledged delegates not the party leaders or pundits. THerefore, I believe she will fight NOT to give Obama any delegates from MI.

  51. Elixir, Mawm said it best.

    The “Uncommited” votes in MI aren’t only Obama votes, they could have been for any candidate who decided to pull their name off the ballot, and there were a few of those.

    For Obama to take all the “uncommited” votes is VOTE STEALING!

    In the FL primaries, everybody’s name was on the ballot – so the “intent” was pure.

  52. BTD located the diary in which Markos said this:

    Clinton was the only top-tier candidate to refuse the ultimate Iowa and New Hampshire pander by removing her name from the Michigan ballot. That makes her essentially the de facto winner since Edwards and Obama, caving to the cry babies in Iowa and New Hampshire, took their name off Michigan’s ballot. Sure, the DNC has stripped Michigan of its delegates, but that won’t last through the convention. The last thing Democrats can afford is to alienate swing states like Michigan and Florida by refusing to seat their delegates.

    So while Obama and Edwards kneecap their chances of winning, Clinton is single-mindedly focused on the goal.

    I’ve been trying to find it for awhile. I don’t know how BTD did it. There is a diary at Open Left from about the same time that also said the same thing. What a bunch of hypocrites. Please spread this far and wide.

  53. KIM

    I do keep up on a lot of this, and there is no rational explanation. I think we have to accept that many of these rules that are biting us now were put in place to help someone or some group many, many years ago and what is happening now was probably not the intended consequence but it should have been a foreseeable one. The last thing Hillary can do is go to court on this because she will lose. Courts have always deferred to the parties on how to choose their delegates. The D party could actually vote to keep out all Hillary states at the convention and there is nothing a court could do about it I would think. Yes, those votes are hers but what do those votes mean is the question. The D party decides what they mean. The 30% of the votes Obama got in KY means “X” amount of delegates. The rules committee will decide what the votes “mean” or what they want them to “mean.” They could decide uncommitted means Obama. There’s nothing a court can do about that. This all shows how screwed up the party is and how this division was bound to happen eventually. They set in place an affirmative action program for delegates and we all know that affirmative action sometimes, not always, hurts the better qualified candidate for the job or the contract. We are seeing that now.

  54. Boomer

    Awesome finding that. I remember when Kos was going on and on about IA and NH and their power. But I think all of us are probably regretting some things we have said and wrote over this last year.

  55. “We really aren’t interested in voter assisted suicide of the Democratic party because the party leadership and superdelegates are just bound and determined to use Obama’s candidacy as a teachable moment on race. ”

    RD, you have expressed in one sentence everything that’s wrong with this entire presidential primary. The behavior of these politicians supporting Obama, regardless of his non-track record, also strikes me as an attempt to parade their civil rights credentials before a broad audience. It’s all about appearances instead of substance.

    Really excellent diary.

  56. “grammar check” I meant “have written” not “wrote.”

  57. Re: Kyl-Lieberman, it was toothless.. but what’s worse, Obama demagogued that like crazy and the media never called him out on the fact that he didn’t even show up to vote on it. What a cop out.

  58. Ben is right. The supreme court will do nothing for a Democratic Primary.

    Hillary has to make her appeal to the American People and the SDs. I totally believe, however, that she has an unbeatable argument, and anyone standing on the WRONG side of this civil-rights issue, counting the votes, is going to be crushed by the electorate.
    We have fought too long and hard for voting rights to willingly give up the issue because some people want Obama.

  59. dar1a g,

    Actually, he was THERE on the floor of the senate before they took the vote. My lover and I were watching C-Span and saw him there. He ducked out right before the vote.

    His campagin now says he had “scheduling conflicts”.

    He is the biggest liar, and no one in the MSM ever calls him on it.

  60. elixir and other massachusetts peeps,
    I’m going to dc next week, still trying to convince bostonboomer to join us!
    when I get back home I’ll check Taylor marsh about buses. Let’s get as many new englanders as we can. I have 5+ in my group.

    Ttyl

    Ps RD you’re an inspiration!

  61. Good Morning RD & Co. I have something for you to laugh at. That was a great piece RD. What you say resonates with the educated set. The great middle mass of the country who are concerned about that “suicide” thing. Anyway– here are two pieces I saw last night. The first is where O wanted his name in lights. O guess where…it’s just so all about the star quality. Second one is out of Indiana, has questions about MO. One of your best qualities is that you never lose your cool, Riverdaughter. On the page. What you say speaks for millions.

    We need to laugh, a bit. This thing is a three ring circus. The whole affair. I’m sure the writing is going to get a lot nastier soon all over the web. People will be deciding who they will line up behind, or they already have. I don’t know what “down ticket” means? I keep hearing that — but make sure your vote gets counted, that’s all I can say. Make sure that writing in a name gets counted in your state. This election seems fraudulent to me and I would not put anything past them. Once I saw the electioneering and the badges being worn inside the polling places? That’s fraud out here.

    http://www.nypost.com/seven/04242008/news/nationalnews/paint_misbehavin_in_team_os_street_art_107876.htm
    http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080521/OPINION12/805210302/1002/OPINION

  62. RD: thanks for another great read today.

    Your point that “Obama wasted a perfectly good chance to score with a vast majority of DEMOCRATS in Kentucky” makes me think about this from Hillary’s POV as a female candidate. I remember earlier this spring, a number of blue-collar men who were being interviewed by the media stated that they didn’t think they were ready to vote for a woman for president. Given the astonishingly high-percentages she has racked up in that demographic, wouldn’t it be safe to conclude that Hillary did NOT waste her chance to score with a vast majority of Democrats. She, in sharp contast to him, talked to the working-class voters. She made a conscious decision to win over those people who, perhaps a few months ago, would not have voted for a woman. Hence, the HUMILIATING DEFEATS for Obama and the BLOWOUT for her.

    Mawm: I cannot believe that that weasel left the Senate before the vote took place. We can only imagine how he might try to evade making difficult decisions as president.

  63. Yes, people from W VA said they voted against Obama because he was black… Does that make them racist? No they could have voted against him because he was a black man playing the race card…. over and over again. Many people tire of that.. all types of people not just racists… and there is the Harold Ford example to think about.

  64. Looking at the exit polls, the Blog Boyz have ignored the nuances and I suspect they have to undermine Hillary’s huge win in KY.

    Of the 18% of whites who said race of the candidate was important, 9% of them voted for Obama, 2% voted uncommitted. So that whittles down the argument that one in five bluegrass voters are “white racists.” A portion of those 18% whites–9%–voted for Obama because his race was important to them. What’s that tell you?

    Additionally, 2% of the 9% AAs who voted said that race of the candidate was important.

    Of Black Democrats (9%), 91% of them voted for Obama.

    Also examine the breakout of party affiliation. Looking at the vote by party and race, the exit poll lumped All Republicans together (6%) and All Other Parties (1%) without a breakout of their race. I suspect they are all white but we don’t know because the exit polls don’t provide it.

    What the exit polls didn’t analyze is how many of the whites who said race of the candidate was important came from Republicans and/or All Other Parties.

    Also, only 7% said that race of the candidate was most important while 14% said that race was one of several factors for their voting decision. Of the latter 14%, 19% of them voted for Obama.

    To reduce the argument to racism is simplistic. I don’t fault AAs who voted for Obama due to racial identity. Do the Blog Boyz? Hell, no. They’re busy “catapulting the propaganda.”

    Is there racism in KY. Sure, just as there is racism AND sexism in America. But how deep the racism is, these exits polls don’t probe.

    It’s rank stupidity to use exit polls to argue “that Kentuckians pretty much admitted that they were racists.” What we’re seeing mostly, IMO, is racial identity with a candidate. You can see that vividly in how Black Democrats voted–91% for Obama.

  65. Maybe I got into this room by mistake. While I, too, enjoy the writing styles of some of you here, and Gene Lyons, I’m having a hard time figuring out what is being said. Is it simply that, if you don’t get your way, you’re going to burn down the barn. That’s pretty discouraging for this horse. For almost 50 years now, with the single exception of the 1960 election, I have had to live with the fact that none of my choices for president even got the nomination, let alone made it to The White House. This time, my choice has that chance. Why? Because he has won the most delegates, the most states, the most votes. And, in doing so, his campaign has played by the rules laid down in advance.

  66. Oh, it is really, really silly and a perfect example of the MSM selling a narrative rather than reporting. NC looks the same, so does Alabama. South Carolina doesn’t have this question at all.

    The exit polling serves no purpose except to pull out bits of flash for evening zingers against Hillary or to prop up the notion that we all LOVE obama.

    They don’t do exit polling to help US understand the demographic or what might be happening. 24 hour news is a really hard business. The people want political reporting – how do you fill that air time?

    Fail math, win “America’s Top Model” and be able to read que cards… ?

  67. Hey, Tomas Sweetie!

  68. Oh, NO, NO, NO,NO,NO- Hate to tell you Obama campaigned in FL. Broke the pledge and rules. So, can’t say he’s played by the rules laid down in advance. Oh, NO, NO, NO,NO,NO!

  69. another place to visit…

    http://ohmyvalve.blogspot.com/

  70. There are no Florida delegates in Obama’s count.

  71. Is it simply that, if you don’t get your way, you’re going to burn down the barn.

    Sure. See our pitchforks? See these torches? That is what happens when some people make the argument that if you say anything to criticize the Chosen One, you must be a racist.

    For almost 50 years now, with the single exception of the 1960 election, I have had to live with the fact that none of my choices for president even got the nomination, let alone made it to The White House. This time, my choice has that chance. Why?

    The why is the problem here. His election win lacks legitimacy. I don’t recognize it as legitimacy. He won by force, by bullying. This particular post is on his use of his race and the way he says anyone who doesn’t do what he wants is a racist. As if we all owe it to him to prove we’re not racist by making him President.

    Well, I’m sorry, but I was willing to vote for your candidate. Now, though, I am not. I am angry. You can come here and minimize that anger all you want, but I am going to do whatever is in my power to destroy his candidacy.

    And the way he has used and exploited black people just sucks. He has spent all their political capital on himself.

  72. By what strange twist of logic would calling people racists cause them to vote for the person who called them that? It might make them vote against that person, but not for. So, how does your argument hold up? The Obama campaign has amassed the most states, the most delegates, and the most votes. That’s how you win elections. If his campaign called anyone a racist, I’m pretty sure they’re not in that total.

  73. “And just like any potentially successful organism, the sweetie has adapted to its environment

    hilarious line!

  74. Bea, Obama didn’t campaign in Florida. An ad buy strayed across the state line, certainly, but then Hillary also held a huge celebration rally the evening of the vote. Apples and oranges.

    And he signed the pledge with the First Four states, and checked with them to make sure the ad (which did not run Florida-wide, certainly) didn’t break the pledge. Apparently there was no way to run the ad in that region without it crossing state lines.

  75. ella, well then he shouldn’t have run the ad. shame on him

  76. Tomas: No, we are telling you that if you guys insist on throwing a tantrum because you can’t get YOUR way, do not expect us to buckle like permissive parents and give into you and your desires. You have a choice. If you fail to evaulate the candidates carefully and choose the weaker one, we will not indulge you.
    As for putting up with the candidate not of my choice, I have cheerfully done that in the past. i wanted Clark, not Kerry, Tsongas, not necessarily Clinton, Hart, not Dukakis. I always signed on in the past. This year is different because there is one candidate who is clearly the better choice and one candidate who is playing dirty political games and calling people racists instead of doing the hard work of winning voters over. I’m not putting up with that. You might. But I have higher standards. This is where I draw the line.
    Now, instead of asking me why I won’t just do what you want, why don’t you reconsider your rejection of Clinton? Oh that’s right, you’d rather take the party over a cliff.
    Good luck in the fall, I’ll be on vacation.

  77. “Not everyone can be president.” Gary Hart

  78. As one Western Pennsylvanian to another, it sounds to me like you’re “bitter.” By the way, I’m writing here as one individual, not as part of “you guys.” I’m in a demographic group that largely supports Clinton. I’m an independent, so I choose a candidate not a party. In the past, I have supported pretty much the same candidates as you, Tsongas, Hart, et al. And, I didn’t really have anything to say about what you should do. I was just trying to find out if you intended to burn down the barn. Guess I got my answer, didn’t I?

  79. Tomas and Ella:

    Sen. Obama campaigned in Florida when he spoke with journalists after a fundraiser (fundraising was allowed by the pledge). This is specifically defined as “a public appearance” in the Rules and specifically forbidden by the Four-State Pledge.

    The article by the journalists can be found here:

    http://www2.tbo.com/content/2007/sep/30/obama-vows-do-whats-right/?news-breaking

    From the Pledge:

    QUOTE
    Four State Pledge Letter 2008
    Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada, South Carolina
    August 31, 2007…THEREFORE, I _______________, Democratic Candidate for President, pledge I shall not campaign or participate in any state which schedules a presidential election primary or caucus before Feb. 5, 2008, except for the states of Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire and South Carolina, as campaigning is defined by rules and regulations of the DNC.
    ENDQUOTE

    Craig Crawford blogged about this. Crawfordalso believes, as do many others, that Sen. Obama’s ads also broke the rules.

    http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/04/where-the-dem-rules-really-lea.html

    Re: Kyl-Lieberman

    Sen. Obama did not vote on Kyl-Lieberman. He missed this one, he said, because he didn’t know the vote was coming up. This appears to be untrue according to CNN.

    But while he didn’t vote on kyl-Lieberman, I would expect Sen. Obama to be a little mroe careful on who he attacks on this issue. On April 24, 2007, Sen. Obama cosponsored the [binding] Iran Counter-Proliferation Act of 2007,which, like Kyl-Lieberman, would have designated the Iranian Revolutionary Guards as a Foreign Terrorist Organization.

    QUOTE:
    The Secretary of State should designate the Iranian Revolutionary Guards as a Foreign Terrorist Organization under section 219 of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1189) and the Secretary of the Treasury should place the Iranian Revolutionary Guards on the list of Specially Designated Global Terrorists under Executive Order 13224 (66 Fed. Reg. 186; relating to blocking property and prohibiting transactions with persons who commit, threaten to commit, or support terrorism).
    ENDQUOTE

    That was the house bill. http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h110-1400

    In the senate bill the language can be found at http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=s110-970 and reads:

    QUOTE:
    Sec 3 paragraph 8.

    (8) The Secretary of State should designate the Iranian Revolutionary Guards as a Foreign Terrorist Organization under section 219 of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1189) and the Secretary of the Treasury should place the Iranian Revolutionary Guards on the list of Specially Designated Global Terrorists under Executive Order 13224 (66 Fed. Reg. 186; relating to blocking property and prohibiting transactions with persons who commit, threaten to commit, or support terrorism).
    ENDQUOTE

    (Sorry, my html skills are terrible. My roto-hammering skills, however, are quite excellent.)

  80. Tomas: Yes, you got your answer. The barn is rotten and needs to be rebuilt.

  81. Gary, I’d agree if I thought the intention was to influence Florida. But there was a real issue of Obama being the lesser-known candidate and needing to air nationally; he tried to stick by the rules of the pledge by asking the states he’d made the pledge to, they said okay, and the intrusion into Florida was really quite limited and totally unintentional.

    It’s a tough call — talk to the pledge states and try to get their blessing, or scrupulously refuse to make the buy despite it crippling him in other states in the area. I think he tried to do the right thing.

    I look at the Clinton victory rally in the same light; posters all over the place announcing a rally on Election Day is advertising a campaign occasion to me, but it’s just close enough to the line. For me to say it wasn’t a gamechanger. Both instances were unfortunate, but in the grand scheme of things I think they balanced each other out.

  82. but ella, those were the ruuulzzzzzzzzz!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    as for Hillary, I didn’t know that candidates campaigned after the polls close. Can you explain?

  83. As an independent, I’m not really in the barn so go ahead and burn it down. My choice candidate will be running and I’ll keep sending in my small checks every week and be there to vote in November.

  84. Ohio: I was totally unaware of the no-talking-to-reporters clause! Interesting. Is that a full-on ban in talking to any reporters at all, or a ban on holding schedules press avails in the state? In the article you linked to, he says he won’t do it again — did he?

    The national media buys I’m still giving leeway on; unlike the incident above, where Obama seems not to have known he couldn’t talk to reporters, in this case they went to the remaining state and asked permission and were released. I’d assume that Clinton could’ve done the same thing. If there was meant to be a ban on national advertising, it would’ve been colossally unfair to the lesser-known participants.

    Kyl-Lieberman, I agree with you. He should’ve been there for that.

  85. Last time I checked I didn’t owe my vote to anybody. If somebody wants it, they have to earn it.

  86. P.S. By the way, I didn’t “reject” Senator Clinton. She voted for the war in Iraq on her own.

  87. It’s deja vu all over again.

  88. Gary: Sure. Clinton flew in for a large rally the evening of the unsanctioned primary. Before she arrived, there were posters prominently displayed around the state touting the fact that she was going to be there for a primary rally. I found that to be obeying the letter of the law, but not really the spirit (I mean, who would you want to vote for? The candidate who’s not visiting, or the one who holds a big public rally the night after a banned primary?) It’s a combination of advertising and get-out-the-vote: someone who gets to go to a victory rally is going to invigorate their community to vote for their gal.

    But I think it’s balanced out by Obama’s national buy and South Carolina permission, so I don’t hold it against either of them. It was a weird position to be in, between voters and party leaders.

  89. Ella: You want to tout the rules BUT you don’t KNOW them. You keep excusing Obama’s campaigning in FL using the Obama party line. It isn’t flying here. I called my grandmother to make sure it didn’t break the pledge. Oh, good grief, give me a break. Take another swig of kool-aid.

    I’ll wait for the next Obama talking point I’m sure you’re going to try and sell.

  90. Bea, I’d read the pledge (http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/sections/news/070831_Final_Pledge.pdf) It doesn’t define campaigning in that pledge, and I was unaware that simply speaking to a reporter in that state would be considered as campaigning. So I asked Ohio if that’s the case.

    Is your grandmother part of a political party or a campaign? Was it well-known that any press availability would be considered campaigning in those circles?

    (And I don’t like Kool-Aid. Gritty, and has an alarming mascot.)

  91. Ella:

    I’m sorry I didn’t respnd earlier. The fab GF had to get a biopsy and I had to go to Lowe’s for more housebuilding crap.

    You may want to read the rules to get an idea of both their weirdness and their elasticity. http://a9.g.akamai.net/7/9/8082/v001/democratic1.download.akamai.com/8082/pdfs/2008delegateselectionrules.pdf

    This para covers both the definition of campaigning (including public appearances and press conferences) as well as campaigning after the primary (which is allowed):

    Page 20
    Section 20 CHALLENGES: C: 1b

    QUOTE:
    b.A presidential candidate who campaigns in a state where the state party is in violation of the timing provisions of these rules, or where a primary or caucus is set by a state’s government on a date that violates the timing provisions of these rules, may not receive pledged delegates or delegate votes from that state. Candidates may, however, campaign in such a state after the primary or caucus that violates these rules. “Campaigning” for purposes of this section includes, but is not limited to, purchasing print, internet, or electronic advertising that reaches a significant percentage of the voters in the aforementioned state; hiring campaign workers; opening an office; making public appearances; holding news conferences; coordinating volunteer activities; sending mail, other than fundraising requests that are also sent to potential donors in other states; using paid or volunteer phoners or automated calls to contact voters; sending emails orestablishing a website specific to that state; holding events to which Democratic voters are invited; attending events sponsored by state or local Democratic organizations; or paying for campaign materials to be used in such a state. The Rules and Bylaws Committee will determine whether candidate activities are covered by this section.
    ENDQUOTE

  92. Crap, Ella, that link is a PDF, I meant to warn you. You can always google to get the google HTML version.

  93. Goddammit, that para doesn’t cover events after the primary (totally allowed). It’s in that section, though.

    Sorry. I’m looking at lighting fixtures at FixtureUniversew and trying to describe the pendant lights to the fab GF, find the paragraph you requested, write down my list of tasks for tomorrow…

    I am very limited as a multi-tasker. And my roto-hammering skills, while considerable, don’t work so good on the intertubes.

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