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Wednesday: Numerology

Hillary won Kentucky last night by a whopping 65-30. Now, I know we Clintonistas are dumb and everything but I think that comes out to be, hold on, let me get my calculator, hmmm, it’s that straight line, right? 35 points! Let me get my male neighbor to check my work. Ok, maybe later. I think we’re just going to go with 35 for now.

Wow! That’s a pretty humiliating defeat for the presumptuous nominee but it really shouldn’t come as a surprise since he only outspent Hillary by several multiples (That is the correct term, isn’t it?). Now, what is this number trying to tell us? Well, as we noticed before, the exit polls in Kentucky showed something like 68% of those polled thought the primary should continue. That means that a.)they thought that everyone should get a chance to vote because that’s the American way or b.) no matter what the media and the Obama campaign is saying, they’re not accepting Obama as their nominee yet (if ever) or c.) both.

Anglachel also has a post where she looks at the numbers from Kentucky and Oregon and attempts to see into the future. In KY,what she found is that roughly half of Clinton’s supporters would defect to McCain or withhold their vote if Obama is the nominee. Half. The reverse is NOT true. Obama supporters seem to be fine with Clinton as the nominee to a large extent. Furthermore, those Kentucky Clinton voters don’t want him as a VP either. They just don’t want him. Period.

I know our Obama fans are going to jump to conclusions right away and think that these people are bigots. But let’s say most Kentuckians are like me. Let’s say they’ve heard his campaign and his supporters call them dumb old racists one too many times. Or stupid old women. Or uneducated working class. Let’s say they have seen the same clueless attitude as DHinMI’s at the Big Orange Cheeto who writes diaries with the following title: Appalachia’s Last Chance to Show It Doesn’t Have an Obama Problem (no, I’m not providing a link. We’re honoring the strike). How insulting can you possibly get to these voters? Appalacia has a problem? That’s not the way politics work. If a politician wants a person’s vote, it’s not up to the voter to adjust their attitudes or shed their personalities or agree to be invisible or unimportant. It is the politician’s job to get down on the ground and grovel and beg that person for their vote and speak about issues that are important to them and propose policies that will improve their lives and move them to think beyond themselves. But instead of reaching out to Appalacia, Obama is writing off the entire region.

But this is typical of Obama’s campaign. At times it seems like he deliberately goes out of his way to offend one constituency or another. And the DNC never takes him aside and says, “You know, Barry, ease up a bit on Appalachia. We might need WV or KY. And call off your dogs with the sexist crap or we won’t have anyone to make phone calls in October.” No, they never do this. Hillary is the only Dem who seems to be courting the voters and talking about what’s important to them. Some of those voters bought a lot of negative opposition research pumped out ad nauseum by Obama’s fan base online and in the media. They think we are the “old coalition”. Fine. But without *us*, there is no President Barry.

Madame President Hillary is starting to look a lot more probable according to the probability maps from our friends at Hominid Views. The latest simulations have Hillary beating McCain handily, again, by insurmountable numbers.


Obama beats him too but only by a mere 6 electoral college votes.


And when you’re that close to losing it all, Kentucky’s 8 electoral college votes start to look pretty damn tasty. These numbers were based on recent polling data and may look completely different in the fall after the media turns on Obama and his lovely wife. If I were a superdelegate who really wanted to win this fall, I’d keep these numbers in mind because it looks like if Obama is forced down our throats, we might just gag up a loss.

There are only 3 more primaries to go peeps and they are all going to cost money. Hillary is already footing the bill for a lot of this, but according to campaign finance rules, she only has a certain amount of time to pay herself back. I don’t feel the least bit embarrassed about bringing this up. It’s just a fact of life in electoral politics, campaigns cost a ton of money and can be unpredictable. Like, unpredictably LOOOOONNNNGG. So, if you have a few bucks and you can afford to, please send it Hillary’s way.


One more thing:

The executives at the Mighty Corrente building have exhausted their expense accounts and can’t pay the light bill. A terrible fate awaits them. They will soon be reduced to cheap costumes and grease paint in an attempt to pass themselves off as begging gypsies. You can help prevent this blogger’s nightmare by making a donation to their kibble fund.

161 Responses

  1. So who do you think is going to come out for Obama now?

  2. Oh, Lordy, probably all of the rest of them. They really aren’t paying any attention at all.

  3. Thanks for the link to Hominid Views. It helped recharge me mentally.

    This primary has been really tough mentally. One day I’m up, the next day I’m down and trying really hard not to get bummed out about everything. The thing that I keep telling myself is that it’s got to be tough mentally over in the Obama campaign also. When it’s tight like this is when major mistakes are made.

  4. Good morning, Riverdaughter! I just took a quick peep at CNN. They had one of Obama’s “also rans” (Gary Hart of all people!) pontificating about how we Hillary voters don’t really mean it and will return to the fold when we stop to think about the horrors of a McCain presidency. Um….no. CNN may be starting to get the message, even if the Obama crowd isn’t, because their headline story is “Fears of a repeat of 1972?”

    Be afraid, Democratic Party. Be very afraid. You know what they say about a woman scorned.

  5. I am sitting here trying to figure out what women in traditionally Democrat states get, where she wins +/- 70% of their vote, that they don’t in the other states. It’s very weird.

  6. On Fox, Terry McCauliffe just said, “If you want Hillary out of the race, try and beat her! He can’t close the deal…Nobody is getting out till somone has 2210…It’s not up to TV commentators to tell voters” what to do. He also said that the other day he told Chris Matthews that he is not Barack Obama’s campaign manager.


  7. You were quite busy yesterday, eh? Missed your party but enjoyed the results in KY.

  8. Remember the pr of black voters taking race into account was the same as white voters.

    Is there a breakdown of counties that went Gore / Kerry and how much support Obama got there. Yesterday it was mentioned several of Obama’s 10% base were Democratic leaning. Does this trend continue.

  9. BB: ” He also said that the other day he told Chris Matthews that he is not Barack Obama’s campaign manager.”

    Does Chris know that?

  10. Good Morning Riverdaughter and thanks for the wonderful party last night.

    It’s almost amusing to hear the quiver in some voices as they wonder why Voters don’t see Obama’s inevitability as they do. It was not quite WWTSBQ last night. THAT at least was pretty clear (more on that later).

    bostonboomer — I’m jumping out of my skin :

    They had one of Obama’s “also rans” (Gary Hart of all people!) pontificating about how we Hillary voters don’t really mean it and will return to the fold when we stop to think about the horrors of a McCain presidency.

    CNN may be starting to get the message, even if the Obama crowd isn’t, because their headline story is “Fears of a repeat of 1972?”

    Seriously? Gary Hart is acting as an Obama surrogate assuring people that (strike) Humphrey (strike) Clinton supporters will come back to the fold in the fall?

    Oh, Really?

    God, if I didn’t LOVE Hillary (and the good-old USA) so much, I’d almost like it if Obama got the nomination. Just to watch the humiliating events unfold.

    They think Kentucky and West Virginia were Humiliating Defeats?

    Well — only in our dreams. Hillary’s going to win the nomination so Gary Hart’s assurances to the party actually don’t mean any more than they did 36 years ago.

  11. Upstate,

    Well, I wasn’t watching when Terry explained the facts of life to Tweety, but my guess is Tweety wasn’t paying full attention, because he was a bit distracted by that ol’ tingle in his leg. Should we send Tweety the photo of Barack in the flight suit?

  12. “it’s that straight line, right? 35 points! Let me get my male neighbor to check my work. Ok, maybe later.”

    you, dammit, are replacing my {{{SPLAUGHF!!!}}} keyboard!
    (wipes coffee up)

    ok. ok. good morning all…

  13. Hillary won more votes than he did last night. She won more delegates than he did last night. She increased her pop vote lead. Now what made barry back off the “victory” speech last night? 🙂

  14. I just donated another $25.00 to Hillary. I’m keeping it small so I can give again on Friday. I can’t get that paypal thing to work at Corrente, but I’ll keep trying.

    Just heard that Teddy is getting out of the hopital today. That’s great news.

  15. gary: I don’ know. What? (This is a joke right?)

  16. How many voters typically come out in SD and MT? I don’t want Hill to lose her pop vote and we know they are just a bunch of sexist out there. j/k

  17. Boston, it’s great news, but my mother is a cancer pain expert and she told me the kind he has isn’t one you recover from. 😦

  18. RD-yeah, “it’s funny and sad at the same time, like when a clown dies”–Homer Simpson

  19. BB: From what I hear, Ted isn’t going to have a lot of time. Taylor said someone reported that he has a glioblastoma which is the fast moving kind. Besides, he’s only been in the hospital since Saturday. That’s a pretty quick recovery for brain surgery.

  20. The population of MT is ~997,000. The population of SD is ~718,000. I think we’re safe.

  21. Oh good, RD. We need Hills. Why isn’t it obvious to the hacks running the Party?

  22. Seems that those simulations show a few things.

    a. The country is not ready to accept a black man as President (this was also evident by multiple interviews conducted in WVA….and the fact that until 1986 the OFFICIAL state song of Kentucky had this line..”The head must bow and the back will have to bend, Wherever the darky may go;”. Race is a HUGE obstacle for Barack.

    b. People will flock to what is familiar. Hillary is familiar. McCain is familiar. Regardless of the issues people want to feel comfortable. There is a portion of America that hasn’t gotten familiar with Obama.

  23. Here’s something to consider:

    “Anybody who has ever voted for me or voted for Barack has much more in common in terms of what we want to see happen in our country and in the world with the other than they do with John McCain. I’m going to work my heart out for whoever our nominee is. Obviously, I’m still hoping to be that nominee, but I’m going to do everything I can to make sure that anyone who supported me … understands what a grave error it would be not to vote for Sen. Obama.”

    Hillary Rodham Clinton, May 14 2008:

    What will you guys do if Hilary Clinton asks you to vote for Obama? If you support her bid for the presidency because you believe in her competency and judgment, would you also pull the lever for John McCain over her own admonitions?

    I live in New York. Hilary is my Senator. I’ll easily vote for her when she runs again. But what exactly of your core values will be lost if Obama is chosen as President? What of your core values will be preserved if McCain is the next President?

    I totally agree with the sentiments expressed here about sexist media bias. It’s embarrassing to see supposedly intelligent people not know how to treat a woman running for president. You’d think they’d never ever had a woman colleague or woman boss before. At the same time I think it’s disingenuous to attribute this bias to Obama, who clearly has no problem being around strong, powerful, opinionated women, and then actually abandon the entire progressive agenda for McSame.

    What if Obama picks Sebelius as VP? Or Napolitano? And McCain doesn’t pick a woman for VP, and instead reiterates his desire to select anti-Roe judges to the Supreme Court? Are you really willing to cast your vote against the first truly viable ticket with a female VP, because you’ve become convinced that the media’s sexism was Obama’s fault?

    In 2004, I was a big Howard Dean fan, mostly because he thought the war was a mistake. I was hugely disappointed when Iowa came out of nowhere and picked Kerry. By the time the CA primary came around, Kerry had already stitched up the nomination, but I voted for Dean anyway. So I have no problem with WV or KY or PR or anyone still stating their preference for Clinton. But despite Kerry’s vote authorizing the war, I knew I could never bring myself to vote for George W. Bush, so I pulled the lever for the Dems. I knew it was the right thing to do.

    I think it’s fair to question whether someone abandoning the Democratic party over Clinton’s loss of the nomination really ever had any allegiance to progressive principles in the first place, especially if the vote for McCain comes over the objections of Hilary Clinton herself.

  24. joey, take your race baitin elsewhere….

  25. Riverdaughter,

    I’m just glad Ted is able to go home. I read about the brain tumor. I know it doesn’t sound good. But in my experience, being in the hospital is not conducive to healing. He’ll be much better off in Hyannis with family. I’m really sad.

    I was mad at Ted for endorsing Obama, but I would have gotten over it even if this hadn’t happened. He has been a fighter for us and losing his voice in the Senate is going to be a tremendous loss.

    With Kerry, I won’t get over my anger. He needs to be replaced.

  26. n8ma, Obama has exhibited as much, if not more sexism as the media. And his supporters? they’re plain off the hinge. I will not vote for Obama under any circumstance. You make a very weak, dishonest, unconvincing argument

  27. What a great day today! My spirits are lifted and it’s looking more and more like Hillary will be the nominee. No mater what those stupid pundits say the voters ARE NOT listening to them.

  28. Oooooooh! The sweeties are busy this morning. Worried much? More like terrified, shaking in their little booties.

  29. joey t: I wouldn’t jump to conclusions about the race. There may still be holdouts in certain parts of the country but by and large, they are Republican. The Deomcrats made peace with race during the civil rights era. I think Obama just made it worse for himself by overplaying the race card. He has polarized the Democrats. There was no need to do this. He only did it in order to win overwhelmingly in South Carolina and the other dixie states. But now there is a price to pay for that. You can’t call the voters you need racists and expect them to love you for it.
    See, here’s where I think the Obama supporters went off the tracks. They decided that we, the Democrats, needed to have a discussion about race. They want to use this primary season as some moral teachable moment for the rest of us. But the Democrats aren’t the ones with the problem and a lot of us really resent the frickin’ lecture from a bunch of snobby yuppies.
    Hillary supporters are not rejecting him based on race. They are rejecting him because he’s unready and he’s acting like a jerk.

  30. Ok, guys, I’m going to the dark side of the moon. The domain is off limits at work these days, I’m going to look into getting a domain without wordpress in the URL. It will still be wordpress but hopefully, the IT guys won’t know that.

  31. N8: “right thing to do”, “progressive principles”, oh my.

  32. N8MA: We’ve been immunized to the guilt trips. You can take your little show on the road.

  33. N8Ma, no one’s abandoning the democratic party.

    The democratic party is abandoning us.

    If the DNC lets the Obama movement hijack our party and forces an unpopular, inexperienced, dismissive, arrogant, pandering, and dishonest weakling nominee on us, they will have abandoned us.

    I will absolutely positively vote for McCain to stop Obama. He would be as terrible for the country as he already is for the democratic party.

    Sniff at our progressive principles if you must, but please wipe your nose afterwards. and use a kleenex for lord’s sake!

  34. I garychapelhill,

    I’m sorry but I just don’t see the sexism coming from Obama. Are you referring to the use of the word “sweetie?” “Likeable enough?” Why are there so many strong, intelligent women superdelegates out there backing Obama? They work with him in the Senate, and you’d think with that kind of interaction they could easily tell whether he was a chauvinist or not. And what happens if he picks a female VP? I’ve heard the ways Obama talks about both his wife, his mother-in-law, and his own mother. Seems respectful to me. Perhaps you could shed some more light for my benefit?

    And how exactly is my argument dishonest? I was simply asking people who are very strong Clinton supporters what they would do if asked by Hilary Clinton herself to vote for Barack Obama, because in November she will also cast her vote for him?

    I think “weak” is debatable, “unconvincing” acceptable, but “dishonest”? How? Why?

  35. —-I think it’s fair to question whether someone abandoning the Democratic party over Clinton’s loss of the nomination really ever had any allegiance to progressive principles in the first place, especially if the vote for McCain comes over the objections of Hilary Clinton herself.——

    am i the only one that gets really pissed off by this BS? I mean I have been a democrat for over 20 years, have never voted republican in my life, and this bozo wants to lecture me on “ever having had allegience to progressive priniciples” . Again this from a group whose main online backers Arianna, Markos, and Aravosis are all former Republicans.

    Here’s some advice N8, sweetie, if you’re trying to convince me to do something, try not to insult me in the process

  36. N8Ma: It’s not working, sweetie. Go back and tell your masters that we aren’t falling for the substitute female for VP and we know why female SDs are going with Barry. It’s money.
    Now, hit the road jack

  37. sorry if I’m troll-baiting, not sure if N8Ma is just a concern troll or what.

    Obama supporters are definitely off the hook when Hillary gets the nomination. They can go ahead and vote for mcCain or stay home, because their supposedly transcendent “leader” has not once appealed to their better natures — has not ONCE made it plain and persuasive that they should support Hillary if he is not the nominee.

    The fact that Hillary always takes the high road and urges people to do the right thing as she sees it makes me admire her as a leader even more.

  38. well we’ll start with the faux concern act. you can barely contain your contempt for us, that’s what I call dishonesty. And if you “just don’t see the sexism” I suggest you take the blinders off….

  39. gary: They really do not understand who they’re talking to. The stereotypical Clintonista is a myth. Don’t worry. I don’t think she/he’s coming back. But there will probably be others. They are going to have to catapult the propaganda somewhere else.

  40. Riverdaughter,

    I hope you can figure out that url thingy. Otherwise we are going to really miss your words of wisdom in during working hours. But we working-class Hillary supporters can work hard and still support our girl! We’ll hold down the fort for you today. Have a great day!

    (smiling broadly and waving)

  41. If Hill asked me to vote for Obama I’d say sorry, not happening. Hillary has won a clear majority of support from women voters. I think Obama’s said quite sexist things. Calling Boxer a “cutie”, asking Hill voters to vote for him in exchange for a kiss, the brush off in NC, calling her “divisive”(code for bitch), claiming her experience as FL was nothing more than tea and cookies, etc.. I’ve thought this since Iowa. Women often do not recognize sexism.

  42. N8, one more thing…..we do not follow our candidate blindly like mindless zombies chanting “change” instead of “brains”. If by some miracle Obama gets the nomination and Hillary declares her support for him I will use my own seperate brain to decide who I will support. See many of us still have that ability having not fallen victim to the groupthink over on your side.

  43. RD, thanks, and have a good day. I’ll try not to take the bait too often…

  44. Why should I vote for Bill Ayers’s buddy?

  45. Sad news I heard it reported that CA Gov. Arnorld (sp?)described the tumor as inoperable.

    Tough for chemo to and radiation to catch up to the glio version because the drugs have a hard time passing the blood brain barrier. Some promising nanobiological drugs in the brain might be tried.

    For you breast cancer aware, the drug Abraxane is a nano albumin encapsulated form of Taxol or Taxotere. It was approved for second line chemo but not first line in the U.S. Other countires have approved it for both. I’d bet it gets tried here. Very promising early work on brain cancer.

    Anyway the nano size gets through the blood brain barrier and will probably be tried in combination with other things. FDA should have waived the long years studies for 1st line breast like other countires did, but alas I think Glaxo (taxotere) had the panel stacked protecting the inferior drug

    Did you know the FDA is not really funded but that the drug compnies run it. Abraxane should replace Taxotere and Taxol as it is safer and more effective and the same base drug (just encapsulated in albumin) without a poison (cremaphor) in it. The poisoin is in it to make it soluble. With nano you don;t need it, thus more drug, less poison, more cure.

    But the stacked panel of big pharma like Glaxo would like thier profits and just as well see you expire while Abraxane proves what everybody knows based on existing studies. It saves more women (with fewer side effects) with Metastatic breast than the two commonly used chemos.

    Anyway since Abraxane is approved for 2nd line encorage your doctor to consider it for first line (i.e before your 1st line Taxotere and surgery fails) if you or anyone you know is unfortunate enough to need it.

    As bad as big pharma can be, I heartily congratulate genentech for Herceptin and Abraxis for Abraxane. Both drugs are saving women with metastatic breast cancer live full lives.

  46. N8Ma- Yes, you have convinced me. I am 50 years old and I have been a flaming Blue Dog liberal, feminist Democrat since I can remember, but you are right I never really had any allegiance to progressive principles in the first place. Now my whole life makes sense, I never really knew who I was, thanks so much.
    On to one more point, I will not ever vote for Obama. The end does not justify the means. Obama has cheated to get where he is now. I will not be a party to the dismantling of the Democratic Party. I have standards. I have principles. Obama could ask me to run with him as VP. I would accept, it would be a blast, but I would not vote for us!!

  47. N8MA,

    For someone who takes such pride in his campaign – when he was winning, it was “proof” of his executive skills – Obama owns the sexism of his surrogates. Further his remarks are sexist and a show a repeated pattern. (Ignoring female reporters has occurred at least three time — sweetie, waffles, and one prior incident). Finally his practice has been to toss the women – and the men – in his life under the proverbial bus when he no longer needs them (Alice Palmer, his grandmother, and Hillary (a mentor).

    [By the way, I’m laying money right now something similar happens with Michelle if that tape comes out.]

    His choice of female VP means nothing to us but the crowd often mentioned should raise caution signals with you. Napalltono (sp) will be an anathema to the Hispanics in the west. Sielbus has proven she can’t even follow Bush with a speech. And McCaskill looks more foolish every day since admitting she based her vote on her daughter’s tantrum.

    But to answer your ultimate question. I don’t care if Hillary wants us to vote for him. She has a loyalty to a dying institution (democratic party) that I don’t share anymore.

  48. I hope the trolls are trawling these sites I really do. I hate their blathering crap, but I want them to report back to their employers the Loud and Clear Message from us:

    We will not accept Barack Obama as the nominee over Hillary Clinton. We will not vote for him. We will not be silenced or embarrassed or shamed into HELPING the unqualified man steal the chance of the objectively better qualified woman. MILLIONS of us will vote for John McCain. MILLIONS of us will stay home. MILLIONS of us will write-in Hillary’s name.

    Garychapelhill — dont let the hate get to you. No one has the right to question your personal principles, ESPecially not a nameless, faceless troll.

    We are democrats — always have been, always will be. We’re sweetie democrats. And we’ll make Hillary Clinton president because she’s the best candidate this country has had in my lifetime.

  49. And, it’s not the sexism anyway. That’s not why I won’t vote for him. It’s the COMPLETE lack of qualifications. This man is almost 50 and has done nothing that justifies the Presidency. I am utterly embarrassed that given the problems we have the poobah’s in our Party do not value experience at all.

  50. and isn’t it the ultimate sexist move to say “look I’ll nominate a woman” even though its not the candidate that you want to be president? Aren’t they really saying that all women are basically interchangeable? and the whole Claire McCaskill thing was the funniest. they don’t even have a full senate term between them, and she is not the sharpest tool in the shed if you ask me. Plus she barely won her election in MO. These people are clueless

  51. Here’s the thing. We are not sheep. We want Hillary to be president, but we aren’t going to vote for someone just because she asks us to do so. We are independent thinkers or hillbillies or whatever we are. We don’t swoon. We don’t need Hillary to “inspire” us or to guide us. She’s certainly inspirational, but we can inspire ourselves for the most part. And, we do not suffer fools easily. So why anyone would come on this site and try and change our minds is beyond me. Frankly, it’s odd because we’ve already been told we aren’t needed anyway.

  52. N8Ma, on May 21st, 2008 at 9:16 am Said:
    “Blah Blah Blah”

    These are the new marching orders from Obama camp. Try to say that if you don’t vote Obama, you are not supporting Hillary.

    Ha Ha Ha.

    Everyone knows Hillary has to say that about Obama, but guess what? This is a free country, and I get to vote my conscience.

    Obama is bad for America, and he is bad for the Democratic party.
    Right now he is telling all donors not to donate to outside groups. He wants all donations to go through him, so he can turn the spicket on and off as he chooses.
    I, for one, don’t want an Authoritarian Democratic Party headed by Obama and his dirty Chicago patronage politics. Voting AGAINST Obama is a matter of life and death for the Democratic party. His race baiting tactics and voter suppression have no place in Democratic politics.

    Defeating Obama will have lasting positive effects on the Democratic party. The nut case left-wing have lined up behind him, and defeating them will have the affect of bringing the party back to the center, and restoring middle-America’s faith that the Democratic Party are NOT a bunch of latte drinking elitists.

    and We are not abandonning the Democratic party. We are saving it from the Usurpers.
    Voting McCain will be called:

  53. Wanna weigh in on CNN’s Media Sexism Quick Vote?

    At CNN home page http://www.cnn.com/
    Vote button is on lower right.

    “Do you agree with Sen. Hillary Clinton that the press has ignored sexism in the campaign?”

    Talk about massive denial, look at the results so far:

    Yes 42% 29581
    No 58% 41631
    Total Votes: 71212

  54. ben–isn’t it like the 7 steps of grief or something. first comes denial “we don’t need you anyway”. then comes bargaining “if you come back we’ll put a woman on as VP”, etc… I also love them telling us “We are soooo going to blame you when we lose in November”.

  55. GCH — yes it is a totally sexist move, good call — they are flailing at this point. Running around trying to put out the fire of anger they ignited with their class-bigotry, sexism, race-bating, arrogance, and divisiveness. But their flailing only makes the fire worse.

    This is getting to 1984 level here, really. I mean WTF? They have achieved absolutely nothing but division with their unity. They are either evil geniuses or evil mental-deficients.

    The Obama Movement: Unity Through Division, tm.

  56. “Obama could ask me to run with him as VP. I would accept, it would be a blast, but I would not vote for us!!”

    Honora — that made me laugh at loud!

    Now that this whole thing has become theater of the absurd I feel a whole lot better. Is it just me? I love the fact that people around here keep laughing.

  57. Since race has come up today I figured I would share an interesting Gallup article about race. General summary for those inclined not to read: Clinton stronger among white voters, strength comes from white women, and blue collar HRC support is kind of a myth. That is a pretty gross generalization, I suggest reading it.

    Joey t, what is kind of funny to me is your “people will flock to what is familiar” assertion. That is precisely what is not happening this election cycle. People feel we are going in the wrong direction and in general the “change” idea resonates more with them. I am not saying that there are not certain advantages being a longstanding part of the establishment brings but familiar =/= good. Normally it would but not this cycle.

  58. lol at murphy. change through resolve, hope from pragmatism, we should start a dictionary of obamaspeak.

  59. Gary, you should do a post about that.

    The stages of Death, Dr. Kubler-Ross

    1. Anger
    2. Denial
    3. Bargaining
    4. Depression
    5. Acceptance

    They are now vacillating between 1 and 2 Every once in awhile we get a 3. , but I have not seen any 4s or 5s yet.

  60. Frankly, I’m really surprised that they try to court us. After attending a Hillary rally in Akron, Ohio, with my mother and seeing a moving van with Obama plastered on it circling the site taunting us, it became pretty clear what they thought of us. Someone on his campaign deliberately hired that truck and told him to go to her rally and circle while her voters are waiting to get inside. We got the message very clearly.

  61. I love you guys!

    {{ Conflucians }}

    You are the greatest!

  62. Ryan, i think the assumption in these kinds of articles that white people support hillary more than obama solely because of race are really disingenous and racist themselves. Especially when they ignore the fact that Obama wins the AA vote by a 9-1 margin. They like to play this game with exit polls too. the question is “did race play a factor”. that’s a pretty vague question if you ask me, and leaves no room for nuance. I saw an AP headline on MSNBC from last night that said something like Exit Polls: Whites back Clinton in KY”. Give me a break, whites make up over 90% of the voters, and Clinton won by 36 points. So the only reason they didn’t vote for Obama is because he’s black? give me a break, we’re smarter than that. here’s the link to the article:


  63. joey t,

    Don’t try to *school* our Riverdaughter on technology, OK? She’s probably forgotten more than you ever knew about most things. Now run along, or you’re going into the spam filter.

  64. Depression will set in sometime around noon on May 22nd.

    They are starting to realize that he really and truly cannot win. If he “wins”*
    he will lose.

    gary — here’s another obamaspeak: Losing By Winning, it’s what Obama Can Do for the Democratic Party.

    Stay in Hillary. The democratic party really really needs you right now.

    * excluding FL and MI, natch!

  65. Last night, one of the children at MyDD wrote about Obama’s majority of pledged delegates as being an unshakable fact. I was amused, given that almost certainly, his “majority,” if one wishes to style it that way almost certainly will change in some way come May 31.

  66. another orwellian theme coming from the sweeties “Support Barack by Not Voting”. “Do your part, stay at home!”

  67. mawm-I think you should write a post about it. your idea…

  68. Charles did he really say that? they will come back because he is charming? jeez they really don’t get it at all.

  69. Young man, presuming that a woman needs your help is not conducive to my relaxation. thank you bboomer for helping me chillax!

  70. “women will come back, Obama so charming and affable.”

    They never will get it that we’re voting for Hillary because she’s the strongest and most qualified candidate.

  71. plural. yes they will get it. They sure will get it. When Obama is back in his Hyde Park mansion in a few weeks or months. They will understand then.

  72. joey t, on May 21st, 2008 at 9:57 am Said:

    “I’m not so sure Obama has played the race card anymore than Clinton has played the gender card. ”

    Another example of Joey T’s intellectual dishonesty.

  73. murphy,

    thanks for assuming I am young.

  74. joey, peddle your goods somewhere else. No takers here.

  75. joey t, on May 21st, 2008 at 10:10 am Said:

    thanks for assuming I am young.”

    Assuming you are young and immature is better than the alternative, that you are older and an idiot.

  76. Joey, I can only hope you are young. Your inability to recognize irony, let alone comprehend it, marks you as young. As does your name. If you are not young I am very sorry for you.

  77. mawm — i owe you a coke. thanks!

  78. Can I have Pepsi?

  79. I got to know him and found I didn’t like him at all.

  80. Have you noticed how many Democratic party figures are repeating the mantra:

    “We ARE going to have an unified party going into November”

    Me thinks thou doth protest too much

  81. @lisadawn82: Ha! Does he think women are blind? I thought it was just me that couldn’t understand the “attractiveness” of Obama, but most of my (female) friends think he’s rather physically unattractive and then when you add their distaste for him as a person, it jumps 10X.

    Besides, even if there was a Clooney/Pitt ticket they would not vote for it if George and Brad pulled half the shit Obama has during this campaign.

  82. Mawm,

    “Assuming you are young and immature is better than the alternative, that you are older and an idiot.”


    I’ve actually been thinking about that stages of grieving thing for the past few days since I read Kos’ idiotic post about Clinton supporters. Did you see it?

  83. Interesting article at rcp written just after IN and NC

    “Not Quite Yet” by Jay Cost


    “So, here’s my question. What happens to “It’s Over” if Clinton pulls a 40-point victory in West Virginia on Tuesday, then follows it up a week later with a 30-point victory in Kentucky? If these states turn out in the same margins that states since March 4th have averaged, that would imply a net of about 290,000 votes for Clinton. That puts her within striking distance of a reasonable popular vote victory. “Over” will be over as we turn our attention to Puerto Rico.

    There are good reasons not to take Puerto Rico lightly, even though the press has continued to do exactly that. I would note: (a) Puerto Ricans vote in large numbers (2 million in the last gubernatorial election); (b) Puerto Ricans have never had this important a role in United States presidential politics; (c) Puerto Rico’s politics is focused at least partially on how (if at all) to adjust its relationship with the United States; (d) Puerto Rico’s is an open primary, and the residents of the Commonwealth, who are United States citizens, do not see themselves as Republicans or Democrats.

    The inference I draw is that Puerto Ricans could turn out in huge numbers. If they do, and they swing for Clinton in a sizeable way, the popular vote lead could swing, too. Add 290,000 votes from West Virginia and Kentucky to 250,000 votes from Puerto Rico, account for expected losses in Oregon, Montana, and South Dakota, and you get Clinton leading in many popular vote counts, some of which are really quite valid. If she has one of those leads when the final votes are counted on June 3rd, the race will go on to the convention.

    Am I predicting that all of this will happen? No. That would be quite presumptuous. The problem is not that any of these incidents is individually unlikely. It is not unlikely that Clinton will get a huge victory in Kentucky, West Virginia, or Puerto Rico. Theoretically, I would wager at least one of the three will happen. The problem is that she has to do all three. What’s more, she has to keep it competitive in Oregon (just how competitive depends on her margins in the other states). That’s a tall order – four big things to do with no margin for error. I’d never predict that she could do all four. I may be a contrarian, but I am not an idiot!”

    She’s done three out of the four things he says she needs to do (win WV and KY big garnering 300K votes + neutralize Oregon – assuming the 12% left is ok) and now, its all up to Puerto Rico. She’s overperformed in WV and KY and I hope she overperforms in Puerto Rico as well.

    SM or anybody with Puerto Rico info, please update us on Puerto Rico happenings.

    Viva Hillary!!!

  84. Joey,

    Go away, please. If you want to learn all about how Obama got to 90% African American support there are plenty of posts about this. You can go to

    or check out the archives here.

    But my guess is that you know full well what Obama camp did, and are playing stupid.

  85. It is intellectually dishonest to deny the existence of something that is staring you in the face. It is intellectually dishonest to deny the existence of reality.

    Holocaust denying is intellectually dishonest.
    Racism denying is intellectually dishonest.
    Denying the existence of sexism as an oppressive force against Hillary in this primary season is intellectually dishonest.

  86. Richardson said that women will come back because Obama is charming and effable?

    THAT WAS A SEXIST STATEMENT – how dare he assume that “charm and effability” is something that women voters look for?


    We want a progressive enrgy policy!

    We want No child left behind repealed and a solid public education plan that’s not just “reading to your kids & turning off the TV and video games” like Obama said!

    And so many more things, and Hillary has the answer to all.

    The funny thing is that Obama THINKS that Richardson is going to pull Latinos in droves for Obama.


    As we speak, Willie Colon a PR musical legend and Bronx activist & political powerhourse is campaigning for Hillary in PR. He has supported Hillary since her running for Senate & is still with her.

    VOTO LATINO – don’t forget us, estimated 2 million voter in PR elections, almost 60-70% of that for Hillary!

  87. Gary, I think I am pretty much in agreement with you. I never really felt that Gallup sinks to the level that MSNBC article does. Then again, I really do not pay much attention to MSNBC (go me!). I did not glean the same suggestion from the Gallup article that I did from the other one (which was disingenuous, simplistic, etc).

  88. Bostonboomer, PLEASE post a quote or 2 of Kos’ Clinton uspporters post.

    I don’t want to give him more traffic. Please?

  89. mawm, pepsi it is.

  90. Hillary Clinton ain’t going nowhere. Deal with it!

    * 05/21: Join Hillary for a “Solutions for America” event in Boca Raton
    * 05/21: Join Hillary for a “Solutions for America” event in Sunrise
    * 05/21: Join Hillary for a “Solutions for America” event in Coral Gables

    Doesn’t the fact that I chose o support such a great, strong, unflappable candidate reflects good on me? Come on, gimme some credit.

    Thank you.

  91. SM,

    Well, ok, here’s the whole pathetic diary for you to read. No link though. If you want to brave the Cheetos place and read the comments, it’s up to you. NOTE: Stage 3: he thinks we want Hillary to be VP. Kos is Klueless!

    The five stages of grief
    by kos
    Thu May 15, 2008 at 07:50:03 PM EDT
    1.) Denial:

    Hillary hasn’t lost! She can still win. Sure, she’s lost the pledged delegate count, is getting crushed in super delegates who have pledged since Super Tuesday, lags McCain in the polls, is tens of millions in debt, and has just about run out of states, but there’s still a path to victory! Quick, donate more! The only math that matters is the superdelegates!

    She’s going to get the nomination!

    2.) Anger:

    What do you mean West Virginia by its lonesome self isn’t enough to guarantee Clinton the nomination? That’s it! I’m voting for McCain even though I disagree with everything he stands for! Losing abortion rights will show Democrats the folly of letting the primary winner get the nomination! And those poor GIs in Iraq? Who cares, since Democrats insisted on letting the rules determine the nominee! How dare the superdelegates ratify the will of the voters by siding with Obama?

    If she doesn’t get the nomination, we walk!

    3.) Bargaining:

    Hillary Clinton for VP. She’s earned it! Sure, she brings nothing to the ticket geographically, and offers nothing demographically that can’t be offered by anyone else, but it’s her or nothing! If you do the math, adding them up together makes them an invincible “dream team”, even though we believe Obama is sexist and hasn’t crossed the “commander in chief threshold”. The superdelegates better force this on Obama!

    If she doesn’t get the vice-presidential nomination, we walk!

    And that’s where things stand right now. We’ve just got to get through the depression stage before we finally get to acceptance. We’re slowly getting there.

  92. SM — quite right! Dont degrade my political acumen by assuming I just want to be charmed by an affable man. geez.

    A gay guy I know was incensed by Obama’s comment that people in the gay community were mad that he wasnt “givin them enough love” (his words). He was like, I dont want your freaking love Obama! I want UHC, equal rights, a strong economy, help for the middle class, an end to global warming, safety in the world.

    Good lord, the guy is arrogant and dismissive.

    Go Puerto Rico!

  93. fmfcorpsman, go to a republican blog. we’re democrats here.

    Obama is doing just fine on his own at failing and flailing. He doesnt need smearing to be a failure and a disgrace as a candidate.

  94. fmf corpsman,

    Your comment is being moderated. IMHO you shouldn’t post allegations like that here. Riverdaughter will have to approve it first.

  95. murphy — Should we delete it? He posted it to several posts

  96. BB:

    I just read a little bit of kos’ diary. Here is my question:

    What coacktail of barbiturics is Markos on?

  97. I think your kind and practical response was perfect and you can happily leave it at that!

  98. Katie,

    I put it in the spam filter. I don’t think we should allow that here. If you disagree, I’ll bow to your decision.

  99. Let’s delete them all, Katie.

  100. BB: I found 7 copies of it — and unapproved all of them. I’ll put them in the SPAM folder now….

  101. Our party is done. Hillary’s supporters won’t vote for Obama. If Hillary wins this election at the convention (as she’ll have to), Obama supporters after a summer of general election hype will defect en masse. I know the polls say they’re less likely to defect, but that is simply the product of the fact that they’re winning. It’s easy to be gracious when you’re up. Let’s see how many of them will go Clinton if Clinton takes it away in August.

    This election is blown for either candidate.

  102. Thank you BostonBoomer!

    Geez, what a pathetic unoriginal response to the 5 stages of an Obama supporter, brilliantly and comically done by LavendarLiberal.Com.

    Kos is losing his mojo. Well, he lost it a while back after Obama blanketed him with advertising dollars.

    And Murphy, PR is going to be HUGE. You can combine the states of Montana & Wyoming and it still won’t be as big enough a margin for Obama to out win Hillary in PR.

    POPULAR VOTE should be shoved down everybody’s face. Is the DNC going to get away by doing to Hillary what was done to Gore??

    Please, please Hillary, fight the popular vote!

  103. Good morning Conflucians! Our girl kicked butt last night, didn’t she?

    My father, brother and stepmother are all Obamans. (One Hillary voter in four ain’t bad, I guess.) My dad called me last night to lecture me about how it was just terrible how polarized we are and how we have to all pledge to vote for the Democrat no matter who HE is. Turns out he thinks Hillary will “say and do anything to win” and that she is nasty and divisive, but he somehow couldn’t name one single nasty and divisive thing she had actually said. Then he pulled out the “FDR ran on a conservative ticket but look what he was able to do” and “JFK was an inspirational visionary who got people to vote against their economic interests so that’s who we need” crap.

    In other words, Obama is a super-secret progressive who is just pretending he doesn’t believe in liberal values in order to win the nomination. He is so inspirational and Hillary isn’t, so he should be the nominee.

    Talk about a faith-based view of the candidates.

    What upset my dad was that I created “this petition, which I started last Friday and mentioned here. I’ve gotten 168 signatures so far. 🙂

    It tells the DNC that they need to stop shoving Obama down our throats (the Florida and Michigan situation is a disgrace) and that if he is the nominee, we feel he will lose. There is no pledge to vote McCain (which I personally would never ever do) or even NOT to vote for Obama. I’m just trying to draw their attention to the fact that we are not sweeties who will automatically fall in line in November.

    If you should feel so inclined, please sign it. I will send it to the DNC in a week or so – I’m hoping to get at least 500 signatures. 🙂

    Thanks to riverdaughter and all the other Conflucians for all you do to counter-haka! You help keep me sane in this alternate reality the Tweeties and Olbermanns try to create. 🙂

  104. When they do these GE match-ups do they change the percent of women? Because the primaries strongly suggest that if Hill is the nominee, in several key electoral and swing states, the number of women participating will be greater than in an BO v JM match-up.

  105. Please vote on CNN’s Quick Vote question:

    “Do you agree with Sen. Hillary Clinton that the press has ignored sexism in the campaign?”

    It’s on CNN’s home page http://www.cnn.com/
    Vote button is on lower right.

  106. http://www.liberalrapture.com/2008/05/was-fix-put-in-on-clinton.html

    The DNC Ate the Clinton Campaign

    (in case you haven’s seen this–the L.A. Times connection is news to me)

    And I keep thinking about how keeping the voters of Florida and Michigan off the table has added to the image of the BIG MOmentum for BO.

  107. Haven’t been able to catch up on all comments yet, but RezkoWatch has a video clip of Geraldine Ferraro talking to Shephard Smith about sexism in the media and BO’s campaign.

    She traces the sexism back to the December debate. She singles out Tim Russert and mentions Jack Cafferty (ugh). Is planning an OpEd piece asking for an independent group to do a study of sexism in the media. She also notes — this is important — that Obama’s campaign is implicated in this because of the conference calls they hold with the press, who then go on to spread BO’s message. She says it may seem like little things (for ex. Annie Oakley comment and dirt on shoulder gesture) but “when you put them all together they spell sexism.”

    Ferraro is awesome. I was really young when she was running for VP, but she made a strong impression on me then. Darn shame the country wasn’t ready for a female at the top of the ticket back then. I am very hopeful that it will happen this year.

  108. Richardson held a variety of posts under Clinton. I thought he was affable and experienced enough while he was a candidate until he was asked a question about gay rights and whether he thought people were born gay or chose the lifestyle. He appeared stumped. Had no idea that his answer was to prove fatal for the likes of me. He was either pandering to the crowd who disapproves of gays in order to get a vote or he was not progressive at all. He dropped off my radar and to insinuate that women will return in Nov based on Obama’s “charm” again proves what an out of touch tool this guy is. Shame on him. Just another example of how low on the totem pole we are placed.

  109. I find myself in limbo. I am adamantly opposed to voting for Barack Obama but completely incapable of seeing myself vote republican for the first time in my life. I live in VA where there are no party affiliations associated with your voter registration — my declaration as newly independent is only to myself (and the DNC to whom I refuse to contribute again.) I have been deeply angered and saddend by how this whole mess has evolved and the apparent “fix” by the DNC, supers and the MSM. I agree with the HRC supporters who are willing to wait until 2012… BUT… I’ve been thinking …. what if she does accept a VP slot…
    I firmly believe that the repugs are planning something to completely and utterly eviscerate the Obama campaign. Anyone who has been looking knows there is so much raw material out there for them to work with… having said all that .. if HRC is already on the ticket and the repugs find a way to render him completely un-electable…wouldn’t it be easier for her to be able to step up and be the nominee?

  110. (Sorry if this ends up appearing twice… I’m having trouble posting today…)

    Please vote on CNN’s Quick Vote question:

    “Do you agree with Sen. Hillary Clinton that the press has ignored sexism in the campaign?”

    It’s on CNN’s home page http://www.cnn.com/
    Vote button is on lower right.

  111. BTW — the 1st time ever I was old enough to vote I got to cast my vote for that guy and Ms. Geraldine Ferraro. Love her! Shook her hand too!

  112. SM,

    Kos never had any *Mojo* as a writer. He just steals from other people, including his “friends” like Jerome Armstrong and Atrios. He even steals from his own diarists. But as a writer, he is untalented and uncreative. What he’s good at is running a website and selling himself as some kind of “expert” on politics. As I said before Kos is Klueless.

  113. (sorry if this appears more than once, having trouble posting).

    Please vote on CNN’s Quick Vote question:

    “Do you agree with Sen. Hillary Clinton that the press has ignored sexism in the campaign?”

    It’s on CNN’s home page http://www.cnn.com/
    Vote button is on lower right.

  114. Ok, PR newspapers (El Nuevo Dia and Primera Hora) are reporting that Bill Richardson is going to PR today.

    Both campaigns delivered OP-EDs delivering tax benefits, no more bombing & military intervention in Vieques, etc.

    Prez Bill Clinton was there last month and is returning with Chelsea and Hillary.

    Poltiticans endorse & fight over who will keep PR interests in mind, but out of 5 supers, 4 are for Hillary.

    I don’t have recent poll numbers gotta look up SUSAs.

  115. on the same note John.

    I don’t think it will be a matter of either side voting for McCain.. I think the issue will be either Obama supporters or Clinton supporters just staying home.

  116. Charles: Read the letter. You are correct. The tone was perfect pitch.

  117. Testing, testing…

    My comments aren’t appearing. Anyone know why?

  118. Oreegon returns are still drizzling in. Obama’s popular vote margin will top 100,000 taking the edge off Kentucky but not enough to defuse the Popular vote argument.

    Puerto Rico coming up, plus … some enlightening analysis of the caucus margins.

  119. “She says it may seem like little things (for ex. Annie Oakley comment and dirt on shoulder gesture) but “when you put them all together they spell sexism.” ”

    Wait, what? Annie Oakley was a supremely famous markswoman. She was great! What’s wrong with being called Annie Oakley?

    And the dirt on the shoulder thing is a “brush it off” gesture that’s from Jay-Z, in a music video. It means exactly what it looks like — don’t let stuff worry you.

    What’s sexist here?

  120. Thanks SM! Vamos Puerto Rico for Hillary!!! (did I say that right? – its supposed to be Go Puerto Rico but in Spanish)

  121. Please vote at CNN’s Media Sexism Quick Vote.

    At CNN home page http://www.cnn.com/
    Vote button is on lower right.

    “Do you agree with Sen. Hillary Clinton that the press has ignored sexism in the campaign?”

    The results so far prove the cognitive dissonance of the Netroots. Let’s fix that.

  122. Please take a moment to vote on CNN’s Media Sexism Quick Vote.

    At CNN home page http://www.cnn.com/
    Vote button is on lower right.

    “Do you agree with Sen. Hillary Clinton that the press has ignored sexism in the campaign?”

    The results so far will shock you. Let’s fix that.

  123. RonK,

    I’m looking forward to your pithy analysis!

  124. Please take a moment to vote on CNN’s Media Sexism Quick Vote.

    At CNN home page. Vote button is on lower right.

    “Do you agree with Sen. Hillary Clinton that the press has ignored sexism in the campaign?”

    The results so far will shock you. Let’s fix that.

    (This site is not letting me include the link to CNN for some reason.)

  125. So far, this is the last poll found:

    Democratic Polls
    Democratic Primary Date: 6/1/08

    Delegates At Stake: 63. Awarded Proportionally

    Research & Research Posted by El Nuevo Dia

    Date: 3/31-4/5

    Puerto Rico
    Added: 5/15/08

    Est. MoE = 3.3% [?]

    Hillary Clinton 50%
    Barack Obama 37%
    Unsure 13%

  126. Conflucians,

    Just remember that you don’t have to respond to the “sweeties.” It’s not our job to explain everything to them. If they haven’t been paying attention up until now, they can do their own research on google.

  127. How right you are, BB!

  128. I hope all us male Democrats read the following article and are thoroughly ashamed because we let this happen, at times encouraged or participated in it. (I’m looking at you Obama, as well as your male and female supporters).

    Devil in a pantsuit or the demonization of Hillary Clinton

    Media portrayal of Hillary Clinton evokes an old and vicious cultural stereotype: Female monster.

    The woman as monster. The over-large, over-ambitious, overbearing creature who irritates everybody, the death-defying witch who just won’t go away—and who therefore must be destroyed.

    She’s a vampire, a zombie, an alien, a werewolf, a psychopath, a serial killer. She’s Alex, the Glenn Close character in “Fatal Attraction” (1987), who … keeps … on … coming. She’s the looming, clutching, stifling mother or wife or girlfriend in a Philip Roth novel. (Which novel? Take your pick.) She’s the eerie, outlandish creature in the Sylvia Plath poem “Lady Lazarus” (1965), who proclaims, “Out of the ash / I rise with my red hair / And I eat men like air.” She’s the vengeful giantess in the 1958 film “Attack of the 50 Foot Woman.”

    And to judge from the media commentary about the first woman to get anywhere close to a major party’s presidential nomination, she is Democratic Sen. Hillary Clinton.

    Revealed in the coverage of Clinton’s campaign is the persistence of an ancient and distasteful cultural theme: the powerful, ambitious woman as cackling fiend, as fantastically terrifying ghoul threatening civilization. And because this creature (or “she-devil,” as MSNBC commentator Chris Matthews called Clinton) is not human, the only solution is to kill it. Not just derail its career—obliterate it. Smash it to smithereens. Vaporize it. Leave not a trace of the foul beast behind.

    Hence the appalling preponderance of violent, death-infused imagery in conversations about Clinton, smuggled into otherwise ordinary political discourse like a knife taped on the bottom of a cake plate: On CNN, pundit Alex Castellanos said democrats must realize that “it’s time to take the family dog to the vet.” Matthews’ MSNBC colleague Keith Olbermann expressed the hope that “somebody will take her into a room—and only he comes out.” CNN’s Jack Cafferty gleefully floated the specter of Clinton being run over by a flatbed truck. A recent Tribune editorial compared Clinton to a euthanized Kentucky Derby contender.

    She is, according to author Andrew Sullivan, akin to the zombies in the film “28 Days Later” (2002), as well as that knife-wielding harpy in “Fatal Attraction”—the one with the relentless, rapacious, inhuman will: “It’s alive!” Sullivan wrote, adding, “Whoosh—She’s back at your throat.” The comparison between the Close character and Clinton also seemed apt to U.S. Rep. Steve Cohen (D-Tenn.), who wrote, “Glenn Close should’ve stayed in that bathtub.”

    ( … )

    What does Obama think?

    It’s natural to wonder whether Obama approves of the death-haunted images that surround his opponent like a phalanx of vultures. Surely he doesn’t. He is an intelligent, sensitive, enlightened man whose life has been enriched, as he frequently acknowledges, by the presence of strong women, most notably his late mother and his wife. I wish, therefore, that he would publicly condemn the trend of evoking death and destruction when it comes to Clinton. Perhaps, someday, he will.

    Meanwhile, the pile of death images continues to rise, like corpses outside Dr. Frankenstein’s laboratory door. After Clinton’s victories in recent primaries, the New Yorker’s Elizabeth Kolbert called it a “back-from-the-dead” moment. Walter Shapiro, Washington editor for salon.com, opined last week that Clinton had entered the “death with dignity” phase of her campaign.

    Death, death, death. The steady, depressing drumbeat continues. What these commentators seem to seek is not just a proud female’s withdrawal from a political contest—but her outright annihilation. They evoke the nightmarish vision of a commanding woman intent on destruction—thus she must be destroyed before she can launch her evil scheme.

    Go read the whole thing.

    There has never really been a push back coming from Democratic leaders on this, not a single major figure in the party leadership.

    Democrats, be not proud.

  129. I’ve signed your petition, madamab. Thanks for the opportunity.

  130. Riverdaughter,

    FYI, your site kept bouncing my comment until I removed the URL (in this case to CNN).

  131. I hope everyone here stays firm in the unhappy event that Barack Obama is nominated by the Dems. Even if HRC asks us to support him.

    It’s important to remember that there are three branches of government, and we’re talking about just one of them. The executive, if it’s John McCain, can’t accomplish anything unilaterally if we have a Dem congress. We won’t lose abortion rights, and the Iraq war can’t continue without approval by the legislative branch. If Congress goes heavily Dem (as the recent special elections in LA and MI might indicate) a President McCain won’t be able to appoint any more Alitos or Scalias, he won’t be able to keep our troops in Iraq indefinitely, and he’ll be forced to work with Congress to get anything done. I believe McCain knows how to do that.

    Voting for McCain and downticket Dems is not necessarily the traitorous tactic that Obamabots think it is. A hobbled four-year McCain executive looks a lot better than an empowered eight-year Barack/Michelle run.

    That’s only a last resort though. If the remaining superdelegates can restrain themselves while the process plays out, on May 31 Obama will suddenly be further away from the magic number. Then comes Puerto Rico, and another landslide for HRC. At that point there will be no reason for her not to go to the convention, where everything could change. And in the interim, a long, hot summer of vetting Wonder Boy.

  132. IndigoGrrl,

    I’m in VA too, Cville. I’ve never minded the lack of party registration until now. SO frustrating, isn’ t it? I officially declared my party switch to Independent here, so why don’t you make it official with us?

    I replied in an email to the VA Democratic Party when they contacted me this week asking me to continue volunteering for them. What’s the point, I asked? I don’t count anymore in this party.

  133. Charles,

    I’m ready to rumba now! I look forward to learning more about Colon. Everything looks brighter when you’re dancing!

  134. BostonBoomer – well he’s a joke now and his “analysis” is BS. And I’m glad that the talented and enlightened have left the Cheetopia realm.

    John, how can the DNC and Obama supporters deny the popular vote to Hillary? Is this Gore pt. 2? Are the Democrat going to wonk out Hillary because of the ROOLZ, and violate the pure principle of which our country was founded – one person, one vote, and every voice be heard?

    THAT is one of the many reasons why we are MAD and won’t vote./ we’re screwed either way – might as well go out fighjting for what is right and what we believe is justice.

    Does Obama want to be known as the candidate who denied the popular vote to MILLIONS of Americans?

    And last time I checked, denying the right to vote is unconstitutional AND unAmerican.

  135. Thanks, Sweet(ie)Sue! 🙂

  136. Dean has already acknowledged the popular vote is what it is. It has nothing to do with sanctioning delegates. Of course he has not issued a statement to the press so they are helping BO out by pretending those votes are not there.

  137. so, how about you: do you think theres been sexism in media coverage of Clinton?

  138. joey t,

    We have a great saying in AA. “Take the cotton out of your ears and put it in your mouth.” We are being kind enough to let you keep posting here because you are being polite.

    If you really want to know why millions of people (not just women) won’t vote for Obama if he is the nominee, you need to stop lecturing pay attention to what we are saying. You’re not doing that. You also might try reading the posts and comments at http://www.talkleft.com. That is if you really want to know what we think rather than telling us what we SHOULD think.

  139. absolutely right bb. Though I’ve started referring to myself as a sweetie democrat. Any democrat who will fight to get our party back from Obama, Axelrod, Kos, and the rest of the cheaters is a sweetie. We wont vote for Obama. We will not vote for Obama even if Hillary asks us to. I’m a sweetie.

    I feel great about Hillary right now. She is not going anywhere and she is shifting the momentum of this race away from him. She is Hercules.

    ella, if you dont understand why chuckling at the political skills of the most accomplished political woman in US history by comparing her existence to a cutesy entertainer in a traveling circus is sexist, then you are being intellectually dishonest.

    And Obama tries to pass himself off as this really powerful force that will transform our way of looking at the world. Who does he think he is, King Kong or something?

  140. MABlue: Samantha Power probably floated the “Hillary is a monster” BS just to see if the Obama campaign could get away with it. Yes, the silence by our Democratic leaders is deafening.

  141. The Research and Research poll only polled self identified Democrats (plus its an early April poll). Its an open primary and anyone can vote. Also, I read the major fault lines between parties are pro-colony and pro-statehood people (from BTD at Talk Left) not Republican and Democrat.


  142. The electoral college isn’t proportional…nitiwt.

  143. Come on Joey, popular vote?

    Suppressing the popular vote and stealing the election in 2000 has caused the greatest rift in this country since Luke left Laura.

    The popular vote matters. It matters a hell of a lot. especially to democrats. especially to democrats in Florida.

  144. joey t: Imagine if Obama had said this:

    “I am appalled at the way my opponent has been portrayed by the press and the MSM at large. This is a woman of distinction; a former First Lady, a two term senator from NY, a candidate who has spoken first and foremost for the rights of all and has championed universal healthcare for allof her public life.

    I am basing my candidacy on the my belief that I am a candidate who has the ability to unify all factions of the electorate and in do doing I will not stand idly by and allow this disrespect to be heralded in my name. This misogyny will not only illicit anger from the female constituency but will only serve to lower the level of what my campaign stands for.

    As a man who was raised by two very strong women, who is married to a woman I consider my equal, as a father of two young daughters, I sincerely condemn this constant harangue. It must cease at once because it does not enhance my candidacy and is a blight on women everywhere. ”

    Instead he chose to stand idly. This is not the qualifications of a leader or a gentleman.

  145. Charles, you are absolutely right!

    Willie Colon is a Latin Music icon who is also a Bronx politician.

    When Willie Colon speaks, people listen. I wouldn’t sya is the king of salsa, that title belongs to the late Tito Puente, queen is the late & great Cuban Celia Cruz, but WIllie is one of the great Godfathers of Salsa under Johnny Pacheco’s legendary label, Fania (which was known as the Latino Motown).

    Willie recently has been traveling to PR from NY campaigning for Hillary. Word from friends that live there is that the pro-Obama buzz isn’t that great.

    PR is different in that the political parties are not just REP/Dem, they are split by “pro-statehood” or “pro-free but associated state.” There is a small percentage of the population that is “pro-independence” (about 5%).

    Loyalists to statehood are pro-Hillary, yet loyalists to “free but associated statehood” are for Obama.

    The parties are almost evenly split in the population, but what is curious is that the advantage is Hillary’s because Hillary has a proven record in PR as well as in the NY Puertorican community. She has endorsed and supported many PR politicians and community leaders, she was active in the no-bombing of Vieques, so she’s known as a politcal ally to PR (and not because she’s married to Bill either.)

    Obama has…. well, he has the support of the now governor, Anibal Acebedo Vila (pro free but associated state), who is on trial for campaign fraud, as well as several high ranking politicians in the party who are also being investiagted. NOTICE A PATTERN HERE????

  146. MABlue 11:10

    wow. great commentary. Hits it out of the ballpark. that should be a diary.

  147. joey t, :
    Come on SM.

    This is America.. home of the electoral college. Popular vote?


    Joeyt, I’m an FL voter – my vote was trashed because Obama didn’t want a re-vote becuase he knows he can’t win one of the most demographically diverse states in the union.

    Popular Vote is something that every person who believes in Democracy should uphold and fight for. My parents immigrated here becasue they were born & raised under a dictatorship. They left in the 60s and as soon as they qualified, they immediately became US citizens & voted in every election. They instilled in us the importance of a vote, becuase it is a privilege and an honor that people die every day to have that right.

    What happened to Gore in 2000 is still a huge scar in our party and in our nation. Democrats should remember that when they start throwing out the “delegate” counts in Hillary’s face. She won the popular vote, she has a higher chance of winning the electoral vote easily at 300 electoral votes, so that arguement is moot.

    Democrats weren’t screaming “deelgates/electoral votees” in 2000-2001, they wanted the popular vote to count.

    So what happened between now and then? Can Democratic leaders ignore the will of the people?

    I know that I sure as well won’t. Today in less htan a few minutes, Obama will speak in my ton. I was going to go down there and protest with FDR, but I found out too late and can’t go. My vote doesn’t count today. But it will in November when I do an OPERATION TURNDOWN on Obama & the DNC.

  148. Pat J, wow. If Obama had ever said anything even close to what you wrote, I would honestly consider voting for him. Sometimes silence really is deafening. You’ve opened my ears.

    “All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing”
    — Edmund Burke

  149. Pat & Murphy, exactly how I feel.

    All he said was after seeing we won’t vote for him is that Hillary is an incredible woman who is paving the way for his daughters.

    COUNT THE VOTES or a RE-VOTE, OBAMA, screw you & you make-up “sweetie’ talk!

  150. I had to skip to the bottom of these comments. There are too many Obama trolls on all the boards! What is up with these people? They treated the Clinton supporters like dirt for months and now they think they can convince us to vote for him? What a joke!

  151. Aside from moderation, the trick is to NOT FEED THE TROLLS.

    Let’s please ignore them.

    Attention is what keeps them coming back.

  152. joey t: And neither is a group of people standing in barn up their knees in cow poo in an Iowa caucus for a one hour time period indicative of the will of the people. When voting is constrained for a select period of a day when all voices are not able to be heard, then the election system is seriously flawed. Caucuses are outdated and undemocratic when the majority who would have voted were unable to attend due to time restrications. I am not a fan.

  153. “ella, if you dont understand why chuckling at the political skills of the most accomplished political woman in US history by comparing her existence to a cutesy entertainer in a traveling circus is sexist, then you are being intellectually dishonest.”

    Annie Oakley outshot men routinely in an all-male field. She pressed to include women in combat roles in the military. She was a philanthropist who spent her entire (considerable) fortune on women’s issues and her family.

    Sure, Obama brought it up because Clinton had opportunistically brought up gun-buff stories. But Annie herself was no fake when it came to being a groundbreaking woman.

  154. Pat,

    That was beautiful. And Howard Dean and Nancy Pelosi should have said something similar. I’m still shocked that these supposed “leaders” have let this go on. If it were racism in the media instead of sexism, you can bet they’d be speaking up.

  155. River Gold Daughter of the great confluence, I have a proposal.

    WTF Do we or Hillary owe the party anymore? I’ve been a loyal Dem my 57 years and work for the local party but this NewHampster will never vote Obama.

    My Proposal is discussed on my blog

    McCain / Clinton 2008

  156. The difference between Hillary’s and Barack’s supporters is that many of Hillary’s support comes from LONGTIME Dems. Those who have been active since they were eligible to cast a vote. Many of them will remain active – voting their conscience in the GE. With Obama, many of his supporters do not exercise their vote with regularity – esp. with the Black community. (And I should know. Some of my friends and family have been motivated purely by Obama been seen as the first, real viable AA presidential contender – esp. the younger factions. Aside from that, voting has never been consistent as you’ll find within Clinton’s base. And you can best believe his supporters and surrogates, for all their haranguing and proselytizing, they know it’s true.

    The Hispanic and Asian communities (which has largely supported HRC) aren’t nearly as monolythic to the Democratic Party as the AA vote has become, over the years. Considering the massive minority that has become the Lationo vote, it’s crucial the candidate with the best opportunity front the ticket, imo. And I see McCain hasn’t wasted much time either (see yesterday’s speech in Miami on Cuba). oy.

  157. Pat Johnson, on May 21st, 2008 at 11:40 am Said:

    “Instead he chose to stand idly. This is not the qualifications of a leader or a gentleman.”

    He didn’t just stand idly by either. He flipped her a bird, said her “claws come out”, and said she attacks “periodically, when she is feeling down”.

    What put me over the top with Obama, though, was not his sexist and race baiting tactics, but his desire to push Chicago style patronage politics to the national scene again. Right now, independent sources of money are drying up for Democratic candidates, because Obama is telling all donors to stop funding them, and instead, to give all donations to Obama campaign.
    If Obama and company get their way, the only way candidates will get money is go through “Pappa” Obama. They are trying to do what Rezko is getting tried for right now. Pay to play politics. Only now the politicians have to pay to play. They pay by obedience, though.
    Stopping Obama and his corruption is mission number one in taking back the party.

  158. I am so tired of the race bait whenever it appears. Obviously Obama won DC by a huge margin but AA will vote for Hillary if she won the nomination. They essentially say so in pretty large numbers.

    I must confess in the whole campaign the most refreshing thing I heard on race and gender came form John Edwards.

    “If you’re not voting for Barack because he’s Black, and you’re not voting for Hillary because she’s a woman, don’t vote for me.”

    While this is simplisitc and just as political as any other uttering perhaps, I found myself in such agreement with the priciple as to suspend any cynicism of the statement.

    This is certainly different than women voting for HIllary “in part” becasue she is a woman. Many do. Or AA voting for Barrack “in part” because he is black. Many do.

    But to assume any less of Kentucky and WV citizens versus AA DC citizens or women is just wrong. Obviously it cuts all ways but the media cannot handle this issue evenly. At least it won’t as Conflucians point out..

    Anyone that assumes that Hillary won KY and WV by this margin on negative race voting should be ashamed of their baiting.

  159. You have to give it to Barry and his Axe Man. They pretend not to campaign, but campaign nonetheless. That is quite the surreptitious trick — almost as tricky as running for President with your resume printed on a matchbook cover with plenty of room to draw that silly rooster too.

    Of course, the good citizens of the Commonwealth of Kentucky had more time with the annointed Precious One than those in WV. The cretans who live west of the Big Sandy River were blessed with 3 visits from Precious since 2007 while those cretans living east had to get their fill during one, count it, one visit during the campaign.

    What I find really giggle-making is the fact that even though the body corpus of Precious wasn’t there, he sure did throw lots of that internet moola he’s raking in with a flick of his well-adorned mouse. In KY, Precious funded 16 field offices (that would be three per CD plus one for good measure) and untold dollars on mass mailing, television and radio. Radio was a particularly large buy in KY certainly because KYians can’t watch them thar movin’ pictures and be a’rememberin’ who what paid for them thar ads. (Please do not be alarmed, I was borned, raised and have lived a large portion of my adult life in KY — I am one of them so I can be trusted to use this type of language appropriately.)

    So, my oh my oh my, how do you limp across the finish line with this much of an investment and not get to 30% (at last check, it was the fractional rounding up that got it to 30%). Well, that’s easy, you can’t look like it mattered to you and that is exactly what Precious did.

    I still don’t get why Precious went to Iowa or why he wasn’t in OR unless it’s not about substance, but about appearance. Just the same type of appearance as them thar hill people who won’t vote for a Barry-lookin’ candidate or Barry really didn’t campaign in the Bluegrass State. Well, neither of those ideas hold any substance.

    Yesterday’s loss in KY was a foregone conclusion, KY voters do not cotton to candidates who are not authentic. IMHO, that’s where Barry came up short — woefully short, simply because he’s not authentic — he’s got a resume that is as thin as a Paris runway model and has had to doctor what little there is on his resume (for instance, his claims of being a constitutional scholar is horse-hockey, every law school in the country has attorneys who come in and lecture part-time — that does not a scholar make).

    Let there be no mistake, RiverDaughter is correct, the vote in KY wasn’t because of race, it wasn’t because of a lack of campaigning, it was because KYians have a fine and astute smell for bull$^^+, the Precious One’s campaign, to this commenter, smelled to high heaven from day one. Hopefully, the power of smell will soon develop for the SD’s who will realize he just can’t win in November and turn to someone who is authentic — Sen. Clinton. I’m reminded of a line in “Steel Magnolias” — Sen. Clinton is authentic, her sufferin’ is right up there with Elizabeth Taylor.

  160. […] in right now. This is the “Sweetie” stage. I only have to look in this morning’s thread to find an example of this from commenter N8Ma: What if Obama picks Sebelius as VP? Or Napolitano? […]

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