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Hillary Clinton Must be the Nominee!

Our girl did very well for herself and for us tonight. How Barack could stand up in front of that crowd in Iowa with a straight face and claim some kind of victory is a mystery to me. What has he won since March 5? Two states?

The results in West Virginia and Kentucky are mind-boggling. The everyday people in coastal and border states and Appalachia are resisting having an inexperienced, unqualified nominee forced on them against their will. If the superdelegates make Obama the nominee, they are going to embarrass themselves.

At some point, some responsible party leaders are going to have to figure out a way to let Barack down easy. Hillary must be at the top of the ticket. Offer Barack the second spot and make it clear it’s VP or back to the Senate to get a little more seasoning. He’s just not ready.

This is an overnight open thread. Be nice to each other.

135 Responses

  1. Am I correct that since the whole Reverend Wright fiasco, he has won only two states? One being NC and the other Oregon?

  2. Do you ever have those times when you look and people and want to ask “What are you thinking?” That’s how I feel right now – like Alice through the Looking Glass.

    How in the world can the powers-that-be not realize what the Obama campaign has come down to – and the SD….are supposed to be above the baloney currently going on and help the party select a winner…not a loser.

    Unbelievable is all I can say.

  3. Kim,

    I think he won a couple of those far west red states, didn’t he? But even on March 5, didn’t he just win Vermont? He peaked in February and even then, he mostly won a bunch of small red state caucuses. Meanwhile, the candidate who has won big state primaries in states with millions of people and lots of electoral votes is being told to get out of the race. It’s just wierd.

  4. I’m off to bed. Great party! Don’ forget to shut off the lights and let the cat out when you leave.

  5. Good night Pat. See you tomorrow?

  6. Here’s what I found in my mailbox yesterday:

    Special Notice for Ms. XXXXXX XXXXX
    You have been selected to represent Brooklyn, NY in the 2008 Presidential Campaign Survey. Survey documents registered in your name are enclosed.

    Heh. Well. Since you asked so nicely.

    Those DNC folks had better get ready to hear my unfiltered (well, okay, I won’t use swear words) opinion. They asked for it, literally.


  8. It just drives me to distraction — the red states, almost all red states except Illinois, have put Precious in the place to claim the nomination.

    You couldn’t write this stuff and have an editor want to publish the book.

  9. I think the only states BO has won since March 5 are Wyoming, either Idaho or Utah, and North Carolina. This is turning out to be so bogus. The fix was in for Obama from the beginning I guess. That’s why they didn’t punish SC for moving up their date. They needed a big early win for BO. And they had to keep Hillary from getting the big mo from MI and FL.

  10. ighway,

    We aren’t going to have a debate tonight. If you start filling up this thread with Obamazoid talking points, your comments will be moved to the spam filter. This isn’t DK or TPM. Feel free to go to one of those places where you’ll fit in fine.

  11. Just think If Al Gore had won W. VA – little ole tiny W. VA… lol .. FLA . wold not have been an issue.


  12. If Al had won either WV or KY, Catherine Harris would not haunt my nightmares.

  13. Thanks BB!

    I have to say (other than results) I like Oregon’s voting – it is hard to do any meaningful exit polling and the vote is counted pretty quickly.

    The exit polling seems to give the MSM too many sidetracks to pontificate.

  14. I think there is the idea of Obama and the reality of Obama. Two very different things indeed.

    I have to believe that the reality of Obama as the nominee and the ultimate failure he would surely endure in a general election is not going unseen.

    Hillary is an even better candidate now then when she began the campaign. Having been tested and enduring through this process, she’s emerged so much stronger, focused, and energized. Obama looks tired and has been tarnished by sweetie-gate, bitter-gate, Rev. Wright).

    The SDs must see the strength in Hillary and the weakness of Obama. How can they not?

    I chose to believe logic and common sense will win out in the end. I still have hope Hillary will be the nominee and the future President.

  15. brianna–I always thought the big story of 2000 was not florida, but that Gore lost his home state of TN. That alone would have given him the presidency.

  16. “when the majority of Democratic voters in America vote for him”

    On what planet? Not only is she ahead in the popular vote, if you only count Democrats, her lead increases even more.

    “Which is force, the majority voting for someone you don’t like, or a select group picking a winner against the vote of the majority?”

    Do you know what irony is? The majority of Democratic voters in America, sadly, are not Cheetoeaters. I’m sure you find a way to disenfranchise enough voters to form a majority, though–how about onnly residents of Obama’s address can vote?

  17. Sorry, bostonboomer. 🙂

  18. oceancitygirl,

    I agree. There have to be Democrats who want to win the November election. I simply can’t believe that they all want to lose. It will have to drag on for awhile, as the media narrative gets revised and people begin to realize what must happen. If Obama doesn’t want to do what’s best for the party and the country, then he should be cut loose.

  19. ighway,

    This is a blog dedicated to supporting Hillary Clinton. We allow BO supporters here if they are polite. It’s late and everyone is tired. I just don’t think it’s a good time for challenging. If others want to converse with you, that’s fine with me as long as you are courteous and don’t insult Hillary Clinton or her supporters here.

  20. Yes Garychapelhill – didn’t he lose mostly those states due to the gun issue ? .. Am I remembering right ?

  21. Little Sister,

    No problem. Feel free to engage. I didn’t mean to cut off debate for those who are interested.

  22. We are just starting to hear the question about the women’s vote but the question is being dismissed as ‘you know, people ALWAYS say that at the end of a tough primary like this one, but they come around…’

    It isn’t a serious question yet.

  23. I think Gore made a big mistake running away from Clinton. If Bill had campaigned hard for him he would have won easily. Guess we have good old Donna B to thank for that one too…

  24. Little Sister,

    I think it’s fair to count the votes where they competed. Also Clintion agreed to that format. I think Michigan is truly unfair to count for Clinton. Florida, maybe an argument could be made. But I still think that gives him a majority.

    And I think it’s unfair to make Obama responsible for what is really a party decision/issue. The decisions about FL and MI were made before Obama’s change in position in the campaign, before there were any primaries. So, edging towards saying that he (or I?) disenfranchise voters is problematic

  25. For the first time in a very, very long time, I peeked at CNN, MSNBC, etc. tonight. Oh what a mistake.
    Yes, the Precious One and his enablers thinks he can win by losing BIG tonight, but that shant work in November. Anyway, maybe it’s a good thing since my wife will be pleased if Hillary doesn’t win since then I won’t be donating thousands of dollars to her campaign! In fact, for the first time since I have been able to vote (1978), I may not vote for the Dem if that Dem is Obama.

    Jeralyn said tonite that “It’s about putting a Democrat in the WH” or words to that effect. Not true: it is about putting someone who shares your values in the WH. Some may argue that requires a Democrat, but I would rather suffer 4 more years of Republican presidency than give up my ideals of what the Democratic party stands for (like, f’rinstance, ANYTHING) forever for some short term gain.

    I’ll make my a Hendricks martini, straight up with muttled cucumbers please!

  26. I thought Gore was too restrained – he always looked like he wanted to say something he was holding back. Well, he was debating GW and THAT had to be painful!

  27. Regarding Obama.. I’m also surprised by some of the things he’s said on the trail lately.. I’ve brought it up before but the threads went elsewhere – it seems both he and McCain think they’re winning this fight over national security and Iran in particular. I don’t know. My gut keeps telling me Obama is careless about stepping on issues that are very serious to many voters and he’s going to do more of it.

    Such as whatever he said about not driving too much/consuming too much and how that’d be viewed by other countries, the remarks the other day about Iran, Venezuela, etc. being tiny and no big threat, I heard one of his foreign policy people in a radio discussion about Iraq saying in defense of his plan, “we have no choice” but to get out. There’s something deeper there than the surface talk, it goes to sovereignty and independence and leadership, concerns that other countries will be telling us what to do. The way he frames these things are absolutely backwards IMHO. It’s why I heard Republicans go nuts over Kerry saying something about a global test last time around. Does this make sense? The GOP is going to exploit the hell out of it.

  28. jjm, do you believe that? I don’t remember a primary where so many said they wouldn’t vote for the other in the Democratic primary. Maybe I just didn’t care enough but not a single member of my extended family plans on voting for Obama at this time. We have never even considered that before.

  29. i’m off to bed, night everyone…

  30. The only, A1 way I’ll come around is if there is an ironclad failsafe way to get a woman (Hillary) as President in the next 8 years. If not, I won’t come around.

    So it would be like, vote for an Obama/Clinton ticket and then Obama commits harikari and Clinton takes over. That’s iron clad. Other than that, I won’t vote for him, this woman says ‘NO MORE’, or as Mimi on No Quarter says, ‘Win without me!’.

    In fact, I might promise myself to never vote for a man for President again, just on principle. That’s how angry this whole thing has made me, throwing over the qualified woman for the unqualified man.

    I’ve already noted the SDs in my state that have declared for Clinton and they get my support. The rest? NO. It’s lucky that my Rep declared for Clinton ages ago, I guess :).

  31. Yes – it’s late all most 10:00 here in Ca. – Bostonboomer .

    Thanks for everyones great information , stats etc. here tonight . I am going to try and tear myself away from this ‘puter’ and go watch .. oh hey .. I dunno , I wish I could think of that movie from years ago with Barbara Striesand .. something about boxing – a great song was in there .

  32. the main event with kris kristoferson.

  33. jjmtacoma,

    I really think we are getting to the point where it is a serious question. But it’s really more important that the media start to realize that Hillary can still be the nominee. The criteria for deciding the nominee is “delegates,” not “pledged delegates.” The supers will decide the nominee and if they pick a loser, they will be held accountable. We will see to it. See Kristin Breitweiser’s post at Taylor Marsh. You’ll have to scroll down.


  34. Herb – I have tried that same tactic in both Reno and Las Vegas. It really hasn’t worked out so well for me.

    They really should send me a rebate!

    I’m leaning McCain if Hillary isn’t on the ballot. I don’t think he an obama are all that different on energy policy or healthcare and I’m thinking any justices might be similar, given obama’s position on the last couple appointed, although I understand he tactically voted against Roberts.

  35. To be fair democrats in red states are still democrats. I know it is wishful thinking but some electoral reform would be awesome. If I could design the perfect primary I would have it last two months with 8 total voting days. States would rotate in from 1st to 2nd and so on in four year cycles. No SDs, just assignment of delegates based on popular vote totals. I am sure some sort of reward system could be worked in there for states or districts to get an extra delegate or something for prior strong Democratic Party voting.

    I would move the GE to Saturday and scrap the Electoral College in favor of the popular vote; wishful thinking… BTW, I forgot to tack this on to my other comment but that NC Susa thing is not going to have me weeping (or upset at all really) because I really do like HRC (though I like BO more). I may be a minority opinion at this point but the primary outcome is still a win/win proposition for me. Still, that result is genuinely surprising.

    Most (or all) people here would probably agree that sexism/racism is a bad thing. I guess I do not really envy HRC’s position because when I sit around and try to think about how she could breach the issue I just draw a blank. I think it is good that racism is for the most part universally denounced in America; realistically though I think both candidates have suffered from sexism/racism respectively. Is it that great that our country is in a place where it can address one (but not the other)? Eh, yes and no. At the end the day they are both still real and toxic.

  36. About Gore – I thought he totally changed his personality . I remembered him debating Perot and he was terrific , then like you say dar1a g – he seemed flat . Like someone told him “change yourself ” .

  37. Bostonboomer,

    Are ya still up? Tonight was so good for Hillary in KY; still looking for the OR margin to narrow.

    Obama was a bit less triumphalist (sp) than I had expected. He’s definitely reeling it back in; but is it beginning to dawn on him that he could very well lose this thing? I was glad he didn’t get to do any gloating before the sun went down. I had seen the outdoor set-up earlier in the evening and it looked all sun-kissed and glowing.

    I boycotted MSNBC/NBC tonight; CNN was hard to stomach what with Donna saying she had “never” vilified the Clintons and Lou Dobbs not calling her a liar; I went mostly with FOX – the choice of No Quarter.

    QUESTION: how many states moved up their primaries without penalty?

  38. Thanks, bb, but I’m not interested in engaging the same stale talking points AT ALL. 🙂

    jjmtacoma, everybody keeps saying how Democrats always come together–but if that’s true, why do we lose so many elections? Don’t Democrats generally outnumber Republicans most years? Those of us who are interested enough to visit the political blogs, maybe we tend by and large to come together, at least in the past, but we seem to already have a problem motivating our voters in a good year. Taking for granted that it’s somehow going to magically happen would seem to be a part of that problem.

  39. Hey Tabbycat – sorry – NO I don’t believe they should dismiss us as just being upset right now.

    Clearly, they do not understand the power of women to stay pissed off 😉

    I’m still pissed about what happened to Anita Hill!

  40. I don’t think Obama has the guts/ability to take a stand on ANYTHING of substance except his own career/power. Plus he speaks like a Republican Lite. McCain is old and weak and won’t last 8 years, let alone 4.

    In some ways it’s not a tough call.

  41. I’m still up, but I’m fading fast.

    The following states moved their primaries up in defiance of the rulz: Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina, Nevada, Florida, and Michigan. I think that’s it. Only two were punished.

  42. Little Sister,

    Then just ignore the OFB posters. We can clean up after them in the morning, if necessary. It seems as if ighway is a polite sort.

  43. Jjmtacoma – me too

  44. lol, jjm…me too!

    It’s not just women though, I know and am related to several men you see it and feel the same way. I envy someone like the poster Ryan above who says he likes them both. I started out that way but the media and Obama’s surrogates have angered me to the point that they will have a lot of work to make it up to me. All it would take is for me to see a clip of how Hillary has been treated and I’ll be right back in the I’m not voting line.

    I don’t want to reward their bad behavior and It’s really hard for me to get past that.

  45. ighway,

    No problem. The people here were mostly pushed out of the big orange place and other O-blogs. This is a kind of refuge for us. So we require Obama supporter to be polite and respectful. I’m glad you can accept our “rulz.”

  46. Okay, Carl Bernstein on CNN just said it out loud for the Lord and the world to hear. And I quote, “The primary is almost over and Hillary has an army who is saying, NO, we don’t surrender. It is mostly women, but there are thousands, perhaps millions who will not surrender.”

    That is the first time I’ve heard it quite that plainly. Thank goodness Donna B. has gone off to bed with her footie SD jammies on.

  47. oops, oops, oops!

    Sorry to get all frustrated and post here! It’s because I screwed up and watched teebee. Sorry!

    Man Hillary kicked ass tonight. I’m not going to get into what those sympathy trolls Gergen, Toobin (the giggler) and Brazille said. It will just get my blood all boiling again.

    The last pol who impressed me as much as Clinton was Paul Wellstone.


  48. ighway, I don’t really wish to talk to you , but I’ll just say this and leave it at that. Fine. But don’t make these grand declarations about “the will of the majority” and then turn around and say, hey, some votes count, others don’t, whatever because that negates any type of ‘moral’ argument you’re making. And Obama was given the option of revotes in both MI and FL, he blocked them, so to say that he’s the innocent victim of the party is nonsense. He deliberately decided to toss aside the voters of two states because it was to his benefit to do so, so any arguments from his supporters about majority rule or a small cabal trying to decide this are the ultimate hypocrisy.

  49. Hey, theseahag, I got the exact same thing here…it came enclosed with a letter signed by Hillary.
    I stated that I would donate ONLY if Hillary was the nominee, and not to a spineless Democratic Party who would not just NOT stand up to sexism, but also actively perpetrate it.

    Any idea how they’re picking whom to send this to? My husband didnt get one & he’s a little bummed he couldn’t assert himself for Hillary too, so I allowed him to check a few boxes :-)))

  50. Bostonboomer,

    Thanks for the stats re. states that moved up their primaries. You, Riverdaughter, et al, have been such an infinite source of comfort and inspiration throughout this whole process. it would be so much harder if Confluence wasn’t my go-to port in the storm.

  51. I think Gore lost because he had a problem connecting with workers. There were enough democrats that wanted to vote for somebody they could have a beer with.

    I think Kerry lost because he was easy to paint into the liberal elite corner. It separated him from part of the base. Also, there were some who voted for Bush because they didn’t think changing leadership in the middle of the war sent the *right* message to the rest of the world.

    I think obama has the same base as Kerry with stronger involvement from the college age.

  52. Does anyone know what’s going on in OR? The page I looked at had a few counties at 0%, this isn’t another Gary, IN situation, is it?

  53. Oregon has slowed down. I’m in Washington, right next door but I don’t have any insight.

    It does look like the 0% counties are east of the mountains, so that should be good for Hillary.

  54. Overall OR percentage is 58-42 with 67% reporting. John King’s magic fingers have taken a break.

  55. Oregonlive has it 57-42 with 77% reporting.

  56. Wow Prolix, you are much stronger than I am! I made it until they called Oregon (and husband fell asleep) but not one second longer. Oh the pain!

  57. I’m an animal when it comes to politics — can’t get enough.

    I sitting here listening to Lawrence O’Donnell and designing his voodoo doll. I used to really admire his writing and analysis and this cycle he’s just gotten plain old mean.

  58. Could somebody tell me WHY some states held caucuses and primaries and some either /or? Why was it possible for a candidate to get so many delegates for such a small percentage of actually democrats? This hasn’t been discussed which I think would come under the same heading as fairness as in Florida/Michigan votes.

  59. Oh, I end up talking back to the TV and all. It isn’t pretty.

  60. JJM, I’m past talking back to the TV — I just throw things, but I’ve learned to sit at least 30 feet from the screen. That way I don’t break too much.

  61. I somehow didn’t catch the DESIGNING part of your note. I thought you said you were watching him WITH his voodoo doll. I was starting to feel like I was really missing out.

    Hi Mel, I wish I could tell you why. I’m from Washington, so we had both but only the circus counts.

  62. I’m thrilled with how Hillary has done tonight. Even though Oregon isn’t all in, it looks like she did pretty well.

    I wish some of the SD would reconsider what they are doing. They need to pick the most electable candidate, otherwise what is the point of the SDs?

  63. Jeralyn at TL added both OR and KY results and declared Hillary tonight’s winner!

    Hi Gracie, just remember the SDs aren’t doing anything. They can change with the wind and don’t vote for real until the convention.

    I think they are just posturing to see what happens. You know, maybe Hillary will just drop out, donations dry up or her supporters will fall in line behind obama… it is a test at this point.

  64. Night Campers, I’m off to the land of slumber — have a great evening.

  65. me too – have a good night!

  66. The latest trolling tactic is to be “nice.” It’s called being a concern troll. Been there, done that, cleaned the threads, took hours. The plaintive cry that “I thought this was about the free exchange of ideas” is the tell-tale move — going meta. People who are really interested in doing that just start, ya know, exchanging ideas freely. Granted, it’s a better quality of troll than the piece-work pay-by-the-comment kind Axelrod used to throw at us, but it’s the same energy-sucking game. I know. I’m bitter.

  67. I’m still hoping Clinton will be the Democratic nominee.

    I think a battle between her and McCain would be great. I think they would both be inclined to keep the fight clean.

  68. It’s too late to exchange ideas. The time for exchanging ideas was back when the primaries just started — but the Obama bunch weren’t interested in that then. They couldn’t discuss their candidates platform because they didn’t know it, couldn’t tell you his voting record because they didn’t know it, and couldn’t tell you much of anything else either because they didn’t know it. They were too busy proclaiming their candidate the new “American Idol” and talking about how wonderful he was — and calling everyone who wouldn’t vote for him “racist.”

    It used to be kind of fun trying to engage the Obama supporters. They knew so little about him. 😉

  69. Granny doc? Uh, we got one of your brain trust out back eating paste…should we stop him from bashing himself in the head with a shovel and drooling or should we assume he’s got a good reason and hand him another shovel and a spit bucket?

  70. One interesting story out of Oregon is how well MCain is doing. 85% of the republican vote! And a surprizingly high number of GOP voters, too. (Compare to the KY results.)

    If the Dems didn’t have two candidates who were actively competing and bringing out the voters to the state primary, McCain’s total votes *might* have been as high as whichever Dem was the uncontested frontrunner. In Oregon.

    That would sure have been honey for the media McCain fanboys.

  71. I was so relieved to find a blog entry that actually showed support for President Clinton (yes, you read that correctly).

    Supportive posts are so few and far between these days. How did people get so bitter so quickly towards her?

    The media’s round the clock rambling that claims her campaign is “over” make me sick. She has been winning states in almost every round. She even won tonight. Exactly how does that translate to her being a loser?

    If you come this far, you don’t just pack up and go home. You keep moving forward. That’s exactly what she’s doing!

    I believe that Hillary is what’s best for America.

  72. Lottodrawn [dot] com – Online FREE lottery game with $1,000,000 prizes.

  73. I still think this campaign is showing the fragile fault lines in the Dem Party that have long been papered over and hidden at election times, eg the old northern versus southern Democrat thing, and a huge power struggle is playing out.

    The Dem Party leadership (ie the “Obama Wing”) appear to be very confident that they can wear the loss of a significant percentage of defections. I suspect, because no matter how weak Obama may be electorally, they see McCain and the Repub Party, as even weaker still.

    A window-of-opportunity while the Repubs are in disarray, to win an ongoing internal faction power struggle thats been bubbling away hidden for years. As Donna Brazille said along the lines, that the old fragile Democrat coalitions are no longer necessary.

    I hope she doesn’t take VP slot if offered, because I think she would only be offered it as a very last resort to help Obama win, and only if they are genuinely worried about the rate of defections perhaps being somewhat higher, than they originally anticipated.

    Trying to suppress her vote hasn’t worked in recent primary states. Possibly, this is why they are playing Edwards now, to see if he helps with those stubborn Clinton wing demographics. If Edwards doesn’t help, then they might try a couple more possibilities before the Convention.

    If Obama is inaugurated, then Hillary as VP would immediately be hobbled and caged off from any power. Thanks for all your help with the voters, now Eff Off. She wouldn’t even be able to help defend her own supporting factions within the Party. Whatever is left of the Clinton wing will likely be purged from Congress in 2010.

    Strangely, I personally didn’t think much of Hillary at first, and was quite undecided between Obama and Clinton after all the early runners dropped out. Originally I saw both as equally bleh.

    But South Carolina and the race-card being played by someone woke me up with a huge WTF?
    Why would any Dem candidate, (let alone the Clintons!) ever play the race-card? With the Party’s history? Didn’t make sense.

    At first I thought the GOP were playing games, but it was still early in their own nomination race. That didn’t make sense either.

    When I found out that the Obama campaign had been the culprit, at first I thought sadly, ohhh.. just a mistake of inexperience. An unfortunate blunder. It will blow over. But no, he did it deliberately, and kept pushing it, and ramming it hard.

    Obama lost me with that. Deal-breaker Number One.

    Then the ongoing, never-ending litany of other dirty tricks, the MI/FL debacle, the Party leadership behaviour, and the misogyny etc.

    I checked out Obama’s record, of, well..nothing really, with some rather dubious flip-flops and questionable ethics in his “judgement”. Along with an embarrassing lack of knowledge, of government, or policy about, well.. any topic. Just abstractions and metaphor, low-blow dogwhistles and wedge politics. His current public back-and-forth with McCain on Foreign Policy is soo embarrassing, and the Repubs aren’t even warming up yet!

    Combined with the lies he’s gotten away with, (personal and political) his manipulation and dirty games, his long list of questionable relationships (does he have any nice friends at all?) and the thuggish supporters both on-line and off-line in my world of workplace, neighbourhood etc – Obama scares the beejeezus out of me. He truly frightens me.

    But on the other hand, if he hadn’t done all that, I might not have found out what a great candidate Hillary actually is. She impressed me so much more than I ever expected to be.

    I don’t agree with her on everything, and she did make campaign mistakes, but nothing major as deal-breakers, like Obama’s long line of deal-breakers – perhaps Penn was her biggest mistake.

    But Hillary has concrete solutions, solid plans, detailed policies etc, thinks quick on her feet, and an impressive resume and record of achievement over a long professional career to back up her statements. It was a big surprise, but a pleasant one, to me.

    Anyway, I just don’t relate at all to the emerging Dem Party’s politics, empty do-nothing policies or tactics from the super-delegates, or even see it as the ‘lesser of two evils’ relative to the Republican Party any more. Looking back to 2006, I can now see the pattern of deterioration, and I guess I can thank Obama and this primary season for helping me see it. The wrong faction of Blue Dogs or whatever label they use is winning.

    So that said – I will be leaving the Democratic Party once the Convention is over, and its final reconstruction as a Republican mirror-image is completed. Been voting Dem since 1976, and all these years I never quite understood those of my family/friends/acquaintances etc who just don’t vote at all — until this year.

    Fatal flaw of democracy the majority rules idea, for the majority can be sooo wrong.

    But, until then – I will continue to enjoy watching Hillary on the national stage, cheering for her, and giving her my support. I’ll even buy her books:)

  74. On to Puerto Rico!!! I read somewhere that the last PR gubernatorial race had 80% turnout and 2 million people vote. I hope turnout is like that in PR!

    In a CBS News article, it said the Puerto Ricans view politics like a sport which I hope translates to humongous turnout.

    Lastly, thank you Kentucky!!!

  75. with 2 million people voting in PR and Hillary doing well there, her popular vote margin continues to grow.

    I agree with one poster up there (sorry I lost the place) who said that they are looking forward to a Clinton / McCain race, that it will be a more mutually respective campaign. However much I disagree with McCain’s politicies, he has been through a lot of crap himself in previous fights, and I don’t see him trotting out the same old bullshit or resorting to subtle, underhanded tactics. Maybe I am being naive, but this could be a courteous fight. Of course Hillary would cream him.

  76. I posted this on No Quarter this morning. I’ll post it here, too.

    I received a survey form yesterday from the DNC. It said that I was chosen from Democrats in my town to fill this thing out. You better believe that I gave them my opinion.
    Question #3 – How likely are Democrats to win the White House in 2008. I checked “Not Very Likely” and wrote in, “If Barack Obama is the nominee.”
    Last Question – Has the news media been biased? I checked “Bias Toward The Democrats” then scratched through the word “Democrats” and wrote in “Barack Obama”.
    At the bottom where I could give other comments, I wrote, “Count the votes in Michigan and Florida. The only fair contest is one where all 50 states have a voice.”
    On the last page, they asked for a contribution to the party. I resisted telling them that I give my spare change to Hillary.

  77. I will be at the Rules Committee meeting. I want to hear what they say about obama taking his name off the ballot in Michigan.

  78. What’s up with Oregon? I though we’d do better than this.

  79. You guys/girls are pretty funny. Seriously.

    The things you say…. like the Media favoring OBama, despite them actually starting this claiming Clinton the winner up until Super Tuesday. Considering she appeared just as much in the news until this week when it was realized that she won’t win the nominee (and thus, isn’t news anymore).

    Like Obama being an empty suit, despite his legislation (thomas.loc.gov for those of you who just accept what you’re told and never actually looked it up). Despite Clinton having a -total- of 20 Legislations, 16 which were purely ceremonial namings of buildings and awards to people.

    Like claims of sexist talk, despite the fact that every woman I’ve talked to, who is voting for Clinton, say they’re doing it because she’s a woman. Despite her ‘offering’ the VP position to Obama when he was in the lead, although if the roles had been reversed, and he offered it to her when she was in the lead, he’d be considered sexist.

    You do a really good job of patting each other on the backs with your words of agreed wisdom, based on what you’ve told each other. But anyone who is in this for the facts, can’t possibly choose Clinton over Obama.

    And think on this…. What meaningful thing has Clinton said in the past months? Her every speech has been “But I can win this thing”. Not health-care, not Iran, not Cuba, not the things that matter and that Obama/McCain talk about. Empty suit?

    Think on this… New Mexico, Montana, the upcoming elections, no TV ads for Clinton. You want to know why she’s still in this? She needs the money to pay back herself and get out of her campaign debt. She will run until that’s recouped, and won’t be spending huge sums anymore on anything she doesn’t have to. She’s only claiming to run, she knows its over, but she needs you guys to continue donating until she’s out of the hole, so has to make it look like she’s still running.

    Do us all a favor, donate money to Hillary so she can step out of things gracefully.

  80. Sphynx?

    You left out the link for your blog. I’m sure with all the thought you’ve put into Hillary’s campaign strategy that your blog must be crammed with posts just as fact-filled and interesting as this.

    Confluence doesn’t seem like a good fit for you though. So we won’t be adding your blog to our blog roll.

  81. Sorry sweetie, I don’t blog. 😛

  82. Lucinda, I got the same survey yesterday and wrote almost word for word the same things as you. I hope they get thousands more!

  83. Sphynx,

    I now understand how someone becomes an obama supporter–you ignore all the facts. Hillary has spent 35 years pushing for great legislature, especially for children and families. And her speeches are full of policies proposals. I’ve heard to two in person.

    Spynx, don’t you worry about Obama sounding like Dan Quayle? 57 states? Arabic in Afganistan?

    Spynx, the facts are on Hillary’s side: she got great exerience and bold, progressive policies. The media is on Obama’s side.

  84. Sphynx, on May 21st, 2008 at 7:33 am Said:
    You guys/girls are pretty funny. Seriously.

    I hope your humor is as active when we don’t vote for Obama and he loses. Will we still be as funny to you then?

  85. Keep talking, Sphynx. With supporters like you, Obama doesn’t need enemies. Did you miss his memo that you’re supposed to “be nice” to Clinton supporters? See you in November!!!

  86. Florence, feel free to post links to any legislation you feel she’s actually pushed through congress. As stated, you can research it at thomas.loc.gov

    As for him sounding like Dan Quayle, no, I have no such concerns because I’ve done my research and seen what he can and does accomplish. The president -must- be able to work with Congress. That’s imperative, since they aren’t a dictator and can’t just implement laws. Clinton is hated by almost all the Republicans and half the Democrats. I’d have voted for any other Democrat before voting for her, because her being President would probably be peaceful, but also pointless since the only power she would have remaining is the Veto.

    hwddawg: I’d be a whole lot less concerned about McCain for President than Clinton. Feel free to vote McCain if you like. Not the best candidate, but still, I think that for a Republican, he’d not be a bad choice.

    Lucinda: I am being nice. 😉

  87. Sphynx is mistaken that Hillary has come out with nothing new. For one thing, the legislation she introduced in Feb. during the campaign came up on the House floor on Monday; she’s had new proposals on crime, etc. Today’s LA Times did not have her in a headline despite the blowout in KY, so if that isn’t media bias, I don’t know what it. She won KY by a much larger margin than Obama did OR. And the editorial in the LAT tells us that not voting for Hillary is nothing personal about feminism: “Critics should understand that not supporting Clinton isn’t an attack on feminism.” It is, buddy, if the campaign of the other party turns as sexist as it has…and frankly, I am pleased to see young women finally “getting” feminism.

  88. Sphynx: In what way is Obama more qualified to be senator than, say, his senior colleague Richard Durbin? In what way is he more qualified than any Democratic senator who’s been in office since 2004 or before?

  89. Sphynx

    Glad to hear you’ll be happy with McCain. If Obama is the Dem nominee, that’s who our next POTUS will be. I can live with that too, as long as it isn’t Obama.

  90. Katiebird,

    The sweeties are restless these days. Methinks they doth protest too much.

    Good morning!

  91. Our process of selecting a nominee is not based in any reality whatsoever. Thus loss after loss after loss. A vote in one part of the state does not equal a vote in another part of the state. The DNC has given delegates out like candy and carrots on a stick rather than looking at the bigger picture of winning an election.
    Senator Obama has not engaged the voters in states we need in the general election. Winning Idaho does not translate to the general election. Ignoring FL and MI does not translate to the general election. Refusing to show up in KY and WV, because it is”too hard”, doesn’t translate into anything that indicates leadership ability. Sending a Southern white boy with a $400.00 hair cut as a surrogate is non starter. Michelle Obama’s version of “I feel your pain” is comparing the difficulties of struggling poor people in SE Ohio with trying to find 10K for piano lessons for her daughters.
    Add to this Obama’s campaign of painting the only successful democrat with GWB. Not drawing any distinction between the parties other than the party Obama, has disenfranchised many long time democrats who has supported to party in good times and bad. Then we have Donna Brazille who effectively said we don’t need you because we have these newbies who have never worked in an election, stood out in the rain and cold, and yes I monitored republican meddlers in Ohio AA precincts and had the judge remove them.

    Obama has more problems at home than he can deal with. So with 5 months left to go..he still has to convince the democrats to support him while declaring himself as the winner? This is delusional thinking

  92. Huntington: Introducing legislation isn’t getting it passed. When looking for a president, you look for someone that can get the job done.

    There’s little news on her because the contest is over. The only way she can get back in the news is if Michigan/Florida get to go to the convention. It’s not media bias, it’s just not news anymore. Media bias would be declaring someone a winner before the fight has even started. Media bias is what Clinton got until Super Tuesday. Even if the media is biased now, and I’m just blind to it, it’s deserved considering the media declarations made prior to Obama finally breaking through.

    Not supporting Clinton is not an attack on feminism. Not supporting Clinton is just having a different opinion on who should be our next president.

    Rich: I assume you meant “more qualified to be President”. I didn’t say he was more qualified. I said he’s the best choice since Clinton is the only other choice. However, I do think he’s the best choice regardless, though Edwards would have been a good choice as well.

    Dawg: I won’t be happy with McCain, but it will be better than Clinton. 😉 Much worse than Obama.

  93. Sphynx

    Here’s a link that compares the two Senators records in the Senate.


    Obama didn’t do so well even when they used your link for their facts.

  94. Sorry for the double posting, I was just thinking on this blog and came to a bit of a realization that I wanted to share…

    Why -not- vote for Obama?

    Reasons stated so far:

    Michelle Obama is Anti-American – O… K… not having been “really” proud of your country in awhile (can’t imagine the reason for that with a warmongering Bush duo in our history) isn’t “hate” of your country. Sorry, there are times I just ain’t all that proud to be an American either, although I love America enough that I fought for her and am a Vet.

    He’s all talk. – Except that his legislation says otherwise. Unlike many new senators, and even Clinton, he gets his legislation passed. He does his job well.

    He lacks Foreign Policy Experience – So does Clinton. Name the ‘best’ presidents in our history, then go look how much experience they had before taking office. In truth, Obama has more experience than most of them. Ok, so he’s not as old as McCain, that’s as good as it is bad.

    He can’t win electorial votes – Except, he can. Believe it or not, most Democrats are still voting Democrat. That may not be the case in Kentucky and W. Virginia, but throughout the rest of the U.S. it’s a fact. What causes a candidate to win? His ability to get members of the other party to vote for him. Even Republicans are tired of the Bush era, and McCain has made it obvious that he will continue that Era. The same Republicans that would never in a million years vote for Clinton, but would vote for Obama.

    The only way Obama can lose is if Democrats vote McCain. So, using the fact that he’s going to lose as a reason not to vote for him is a bit bass-ackwards.

    That means the only real reason I can see (feel free to correct me if I’m wrong) for voting McCain over Obama is either racial prejudice, or feminism retaliation. And honestly, if you vote McCain because a ‘female’ didn’t get nominated, how many ways of messed-up is that? You gonna punish Obama for having done well as a Democrat Nominee? Teach him a lesson? Teach the whole DNC a lesson on what it means to not vote for a female, despite the fact that her being a female had nothing to do with it? o.O

  95. Sphynx,

    You didn’t list any of the reasons people here won’t vote for Obama. Give it up. We aren’t buying what you’re selling. Run on over to the big orange Cheetos place. I think you’ll find it’s a better fit for you.

  96. Sphynx, I actually have been a long time BO supporter but coming in here, tossing around sweetie to antagonize people and saying generally retarded things really makes me want to not vote for him.

  97. Heard all the Obamabot reasons for why they feel Hillary lost the election, why we should now vote for Obama if he is the nominee and have been over it with them time and time again.. You can point out the obvious to them and they just change the subject and spin off in another direction.

    The plain truth of it for me at this point is the DNC and the Obamabots didn’t give a rats ass about me and my candidate in all that time,and I sure as hell want to return the favor. They don’t represent me now and I will never vote for Obama. If it looks like he has a chance of winning I will vote for McCain in a heart beat.

    None of them cared at any point as to why Hillary was the better candidate, so now they get to experience a little of their own meds. I don’t give a flying f**k what they feel about our reasons for who we vote for and why.

    I’ve been a registered Dem since 1978 and now the Democratic party and ” the new direction” they’ve decided to take, leaves a bad taste in my mouth. If being a Dem means I have to be an Obamabot I’ll pass.

    Voted for Jesse twice in the primaries in Cali when he ran, and never thought I’d vote for a Republican over a black Dem candidate, but with Obama and his bots, the choice is easy. I am now registered as an Independent and the only way I’ll vote for a Dem is if it’s Hillary. The only other Dem I’ll vote for is one that didn’t support Obummer.

    Hillary 08

  98. Dawg: Very nice reply, great page for reading. Something I encourage everyone to read actually, even if it does prove one of my points as wrong.

    However… (there’s always a but. :P), I know when I hit loc.thomas.gov, the legislation I found for Obama completely out-weighed Clinton’s. Both in non-fluff, and in co-sponsoring. Co-Sponsoring because it shows the ability to ‘work with’ on things of import. There were even a ton of news articles recently of his work with McCain on legislation, and other Republicans. I don’t find it likely you’ll find similar articles for Clinton.

    Clinton does, admittedly, seem highly interested in helping the unfortunate with laws. Obama seems to focus more along political lines and global lines, while still focusing as much on schools/children with his legislation as Clinton.

    The article you point out is good. Hell, it’s great. But it still lacks the attention to details that solid research gives. Find the things you’re most concerned about, and see who has done the most towards it. In my research, it was all almost 3-1 Obama.

  99. Hmmm, you guys reply too quick for me. 😛 I see I’m upsetting you some. Not my intent. Nor my intent to antagonize with the “Sweetie”. I use sweetie, hon, etc often. I pull out chairs and open doors for ladies. Southern upbringing. I didn’t mean to re-hash the Obama “sweetie” in my saying it, and I sincerely apologize to Katie if she felt I was trying to antagonize with it. I’m old enough that I think I have a right to use the word without taking slack for it.

    Anyhows, I think you are all pretty set in your way. That’s ok with me. I won’t push anyone to change their minds. But I do think you should analyze your beliefs that supporting Obama makes someone a cult-member. Cult isn’t enough to get him as far as he’s gone, or to garnish the Super Delegates he’s ammased. Something else must be right about him that people are missing.

  100. Sphynx

    I’ll let you prove your points, and I’ll prove mine. I’ve gone over details like this too many times. It way past who has the better record for me at this point. It’s not just about the candidates anymore for me. It’s his supporters, the MSM, the DNC and I could go on. I’m never going to convert to Obama so it’s a waste of both our time to try.

  101. What about his supporters/MSM/DMC that has anyone preferring McCain over Obama? I don’t understand.

  102. Sphynx

    I guess you don’t read blogs that Obama supporters go to, but here’s an example of the vile sexist tactics, which are also perpetuated by the MSM.

    as far as the DNC goes, does FL and MI sound familiar? Also trying to get her to concede when the race is this close, and every other candidate in history that’s been even further behind that’s gone to convention, never had as much of a call for them to stand down, is just more of the sexist tactic from them all.

  103. Here’s also a link to what happend in regards to the DNC stripping the delegates from FL with the video of the meeting it all happened in. http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/4/6/154511/1250

  104. PS. That doesn’t make it “sexist”, as you call it.

  105. Your saying that is why Obamabots turn me toward a candidate I never would have thought I could vote for a year ago.

  106. That’s not what I’m saying. I’m saying that I don’t understand the Obama-Hate.

    I understand the Obama-Love, the ‘cult’ as it’s called. But I just can not fathom what possible reason a person who calls themself a Democrat would have for saying they’d rather vote McCain than Obama.

    I can understand reasons to not like Clinton. Inability to manage the finances of her campaign scares people about how the economy would be. Changing her stance on Michigan Florida when she’s suddenly losing. Her failed health reform under the Clinton administration. Even her coat-tailing on her husband’s presidency, staying with him after Monica for the sake of her political career.

    But I just can’t wrap my head around all the Obama-hate.

  107. You know…they’re right! It IS all about putting a Democrat in the White House. And that’s why I’m voting for Hillary. She’s the only Democrat running. Voting for Obama represents voting for the destruction of the Democratic Party…on sooo many levels. I would rather take it down on my own terms…Vote McCain. That’ll learn ’em.

    …and don’t give me that “end the war shit”…I voted for that in 2006.

  108. I really didn’t expect you to get it Sphynx, especially when seeing your first post of “You guys/girls are pretty funny. Seriously”. You still look at women as girls, so why should you be expected to understand the undertones of the comments made by the media or the characters of Mrs Clinton.

  109. Slim: How is voting Obama voting the destruction of the Democratic Party?

    Dawg: It’s guys/girls(gals) or ladies/gentlemen, or you-alls. My using one term over the other doesn’t imply or insinuate my opinion on the female gender. And no, I don’t see women as girls.

    I -see- the undertones of the comments made by the media on both candidates. From repeatedly ‘accidently’ calling Obama Osama, to them ignoring Clinton now. I also see the cards Hillary uses. “I’m the Girl for the job” to talking about “if the kitchen gets too hot”.

    Clinton has used more feminist remarks against herself than the media combined. IF you’re gonna run with your logo being “Hillary ’08”, don’t complain if people call you Hillary instead of Senator Clinton. Right?

  110. What’s the take on what this hyper-genderization of Hillary Clinton’s candidacy is doing to the feminist movement? I’m seeing a huge, emphatic split between the older generation and the younger, to the point that my contemporaries would prefer not to be known as “feminists” because they feel the flag’s being thrown way, way too much by the older generation. I’m all for equality of the sexes, but this is getting to be like a soccer match against Brazil where the players are taking dives and calling fouls EVERYWHERE. I mean, “sweetie”? I cringed, and was happy he apologized; same when he offered to kiss someone for her vote. Cringe cringe cringe. But claiming he gives less time to female reporters? Not seeing that.

    I don’t disagree that there’s been sexism and misogyny in the coverage, and that some Obama supporters have probably gone over that line, but taking all of this stuff out of context is really changing my concept of what other feminists mean when they say they’re feminists — and I don’t want any part of their feminism, if it means voting along gender lines by default.

  111. Well, we see if differently for sure, and since I’m only responsible for my vote, I’ll use that vote to reflect what I see. From what I’ve talked to about with many others, I won’t be alone. You asked what motivates people like me, and I’ve told you parts of it. I at no point feel I need to condone what I do, and I can only do what I’ve done in the past, which is vote my conscious.

  112. BTW Sphynx for furture reference, it’s boys/girls, guys/gals, or ladies and gentelmen. guys/girls is sexist.

  113. Ok, so “no reason” then…?

    Curious, is it racial prejudice? He’s not ‘done’ anything to be disliked. He’s done enough to be liked. He’s made a solid name for himself in the senate via his legislation. What’s left?

    I ask because I know that I can think of quite a few women I think would be great in office, and that would get my vote. My not voting for Clinton has nothing to do with gender, nor does my vote for Obama (which as a Floridian I didn’t get to do yet) come from his being black.

    You’re right, you don’t have to condone your decision to me, you’re even allowed to make your decision via racial prejudice. No laws against that. I’m just really trying to understand. Not belittle, antagonize, or anger. I really don’t understand the Obama-hate unless it’s racial prejudice. At least that, I would understand.

  114. Gimme a break….. guys/girls isn’t sexist. ‘gals’ is just slang for girls, and only in some areas. guys/gals is just as sexist as guys/girls (which is, not sexist at all)

  115. There should be a cap on the number of times people are allowed to post under each heading here.

    “to the point that my contemporaries would prefer not to be known as “feminists” because they feel the flag’s being thrown way, way too much by the older generation.”

    Eh, the young feminist leaders who whine about not having enough powah in the feminist movement are all approaching their thirties and beyond, anyway. When do they have to start admitting their age and that their voices are overshadowing even younger feminists? They’ve managed to get a lot of male support by being pro-porn, pro-prostitution, etc., so no kidding older feminists aren’t impressed.

  116. You ask if it’s racial for me so I guess you didn’t remember a few post ago I stated I voted for Jesse twice when he ran. I guess the racial thing doesn’t fit either. It’s typical that you resort to that though since that’s been the tactic since I can’t remember when, but you never question 97% of the AA community voting for him. None of that is racial though I guess in Obamaland. I have reasons that you discount, that’s fine with me, and since you don’t understand the reasons I’ve given I’m not going to go into the other reasons as well. I’ve done this dance too many times with folks like you, and it’s just spins further down the road. If you’re really curious like you say, try reading the articles here and you might find more answers than you really want. Try No Quarter USA too, good reading.

  117. I’m not so much concerned about the feminist movement, but the decentralized feminism. In another thread, someone mentioned that Ferraro’s saying calling Clinton “Annie Oakley” and doing the Jay-Z shoulder-brush were sexist things. It’s stuff like that that’s head-spinning, because I just don’t see the fight there.

    The cleavage Congress thing a while ago? Yeah, that was completely sexist. The endless cankle debate, the general physical appearance stuff, and most of all that lingering doubt that a lady can’t be CiC (bull!). All of those things qualify to me. But a lot of the complaints over what I see as a fair reporting of numbers that mathematically indicate Clinton’s not going to be able to make the threshold? I don’t see the sexism there.

  118. “Meanwhile, the Rezko Jury Still Deliberates…And A New Bill to Curb Money in IL Politics is Already Under Attack”


    With all this going on, it makes one wonder how Obama would be voting if he were still in the Illinois Legislature. Would he take a strong stance for the bill? Would he “bring people together” and push for the watered down version? And, in the end, regardless of whatever bill was adopted, would he IGNORE the intent and work deals to his advantage???

    Just asking…and reading “Scoop”

  119. Edit: “I’m not so much concerned about the feminist movement” — badly phrased on my part. I mean to say that the rifts I’m seeing haven’t yet hit the gears of the feminist movement, because it’s turning younger women off the movement before they even start. They’re not going from self-identified feminists to feminist activists — they’re going from self-identified feminists to not identifying as feminists because the movement’s defining it in a way they don’t recognize.

  120. Offtopic, but anyone want to counteract the Obamtroids votes on “has there been media sexism in Clinton coverage?” at cnn…those bratty kids with their textmessaging…


  121. Someone didn’t get the “make nice” memo.

    Sammie, a poster at Taylor Marsh, noted that the talking heads and DNCers get very jittery and pants-wetty about the thought that Obama’s base (what’s left of it) will riot and wail and feel utterly betrayed if he doesn’t get the nomination, yet when they talk about the (much bigger) base of Dems who will walk from the party if HRC doesn’t get it, their tone instantly becomes patronizing and dismissive. “Oh, the little ladies will come around, they always do, Obama just needs to give them a pat on the head.” It’s an interesting point.

    Not that there is anything they can do at this point, really. The number of HRC supporters who will vote McCain over BO is growing daily, and BO’s condescending attempts to bamboozle us only strengthen our resolve. There is literally nothing he could do to get my vote and I am a lifetime yella-dog Dem, and I know I am not alone.

  122. Hear Hear!

    Clinton is a far better candidate than he is. I love Obama, but even I’m getting over the ‘new puppy’ syndrome.


  123. Finally something positive!


    Bitches get stuff done!

  124. I’m an Obama supporter, but I just wanted to congratulate Hillary for her victory in Kentucky.

    I’m also one of the Obama supporters who will vote for Clinton over McCain without thinking twice if the Super delegates end up choosing her over Obama and I hope most Clinton supporters will do the same if Obama is the nominee. I can definitely understand feeling resentment towards the other Democratic candidate because I’ve heard it from both sides and both have passionate supporters, but Obama and Clinton are far closer on the issues than McCain and Clinton are. You may not want Obama(which is understandable) but, would you really rather have a third term of Bush-style governance?

  125. Quix

    the plain and simple answer is yes. Anyone but Obama

  126. Why though? Clinton’s policies would be far closer to Obama’s than McCain’s. There’s also the matter of the judiciary and McCain has said he’d appoint Conservative justices to the Supreme Court which result in Roe v Wade being overturned and labor laws being scaled back significantly. With all due respect, the anyone but Obama attitude seems short-sighted to me, though certainly understandable.

  127. Because the Democratic party has shown the side of itself that many can no longer identify with. read some of the articles here and at No Quarter USA if you have problems understanding how we feel abandoned by them.

  128. I don’t see Senator Clinton’s opponent’s supporters as happy as hers are and getting so up close. “We’re so PROUD of you !”

    His crowds turn out to be free concert go-ers. Opportunists.

  129. @hwddawg: I’ll be honest with you, much of what I read at No Quarter seems to simply be very bitter statements many of which almost seem engineered to further the divisions within the Democratic party(which I think would be supported by the fact that Larry C. Johnson is a Republican.) I guess part of it is that I don’t get why someone would vote for a candidate because they identify with them rather than their policies.

  130. Quix sounds like an astroturfer to me.

  131. I cannot vote for Obama. I waited for him to say one word about the blatant sexism in the media. He did NOT have to endorse her to say that it was wrong. She would have done if it had been rampant racism. She would have stood up. The party didn’t even say a word and yes, it’s patronizing to come around now and say the “little women” will “heal their hearts” NARAL *puke* and come around. I won’t. I will vote against him as it is the ONLY way to show that this *his behavior included* is utterly and once and for all unacceptable.

    Never mind the slams against anyone voting for her. The MYTH that Obama supporters are “more educated” Yes, when you have half your base who are STUDENTS then it will look that way. I don’t recall anyone asking me to show my sheepskin when I voted but, I have worked on this campaign for months on end and the majority of people I worked with were not slack jawed cretins believe it or not. How insulting this has all been. It has been far, far, far uglier than any campaign I have ever seen.

    Perhaps there are those participating for the first time who call this sort of vile and repugnant bullying “normal” but, it is not.

    We’ve been slammed all over the net, at caucuses and shut up and Obama will not need our voices or our votes in November. He won’t get mine anyway and no I won’t come around to “get along.” I’m out of this party if they do not stand up and do something to show they still stand for the same principles they claim to stand for.

  132. I take it you won’t vote for McCain then given that he’s laughed at his supporters’ sexist remarks in addition to not denouncing them.

    I’m also not sure that the idea that Obama supporters on average have a higher amount of formal education is wrong. It’s come from the exit polls and if that one is false than every piece of exit polling data has an equal chance of being wrong. It’s not a value judgment, but simply part of the polling data just like it’s part of the polling data that Hillary has recently won white voters.

    I do agree that it would have been good for Obama to denounce the sexism, but Hillary also hasn’t denounced the racism within the media.

    I’m also not sure that Obama won’t need your votes in November. They’ll be critical in states like California and Pennsylvania.

  133. No matter who votes for whom……the public vote doesn’t matter anyway. It will all be decided by the Superdelegates. I really wonder sometimes why we bother to vote at all since the popular vote doesn not trump the Superdelegates votes.
    This whole “get out & vote” thing is starting to leave a real bad taste in my mouth, especially when one stops to think & then realize that your vote doesn’t matter anyway since the Superdelegates are not bound by the popular vote & can vote anyway they please. What is the point then?
    The good old boys are closing rank & boy will they be surprised when McCain wins.
    The DNC has really screwed themselves this time & I have resigned from the DNC after almost a decade of belonging to this party. Never have I seen a delegate be treated with so much disrespect & downright disgusting comments than in this election.

  134. Meant to say “after almost 5 decades of belonging to this party.”

  135. I do hope that the DNC comes up with a better system than the Superdelegates in 2012 because it’s definitely a little too close to the old smoke filled rooms.

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