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Clinton May Take Delegate Fight to Convention

In Boca Raton, FL today, Hillary Clinton said that she would take the fight for Michigan and Florida’s delegates to the convention if those states want her to.

“I believe the Democratic Party must count these votes,” Clinton said to a crowd of about 700 at the Century Village retirement community, to chants of “Count our votes.” “They should count them exactly as they were cast.”

“The rules clearly state that we can count all of these votes and seat all of these delegates, pledged and unpledged, should we so choose,” the former first lady added.

Meanwhile, from the NYT:

With 88 percent of the vote counted in the Democratic primary in Oregon on Tuesday, Mr. Obama had 58 percent of the vote to Mrs. Clinton’s 42 percent. In Kentucky, with all votes counted, Mrs. Clinton had 72 percent to Mr. Obama’s 27 percent.

Can that be right? I’m not that good at math, and I could even be described as math-phobic, but when I subtract 27 from 72, I get 45. The “presumptive nominee” of the Democratic party got his ass kicked by 45 points? Has anyone told CNN and MSNBO? Do Howard Dean and Donna Brazile know?  I’ll keep checking to see if the NYT makes a correction in their story. Hey, even if the NYT goofed, a 35 point loss is pretty pathetic.

And yet the headline of the NYT story is “Obama Declares Nomination is Within Reach.” Well all I can say is he’d better reach out and grab it pretty soon, because presumptive nominees are not supposed to lose primaries by 45 percentage points.

But even as he moved closer to winning the intensely fought nominating contest with Mrs. Clinton — a battle suffused with history and the tension inherent in a campaign defined in part by race and gender — Mr. Obama was preparing to deal with a series of challenges in the weeks ahead.

He was planning a vigorous schedule of travel to general election states and a voter registration drive focusing on black voters to offset any losses among whites. Aides said he was considering delivering another speech to deal with damage in the primary because of attacks on his relationship with his former pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr., as well as on his patriotism.

Oh no, please no, not another speech to deal with Rev. Wright! What would this be, the third damage control speech? Barack, I’ve got news for you, the Rev. Wright issue is not going away. You’d be much better off to start meeting and talking to some of those working class people who just don’t seem to trust you. Maybe if you actually went into their communities and met them and, yes, listened to what they have to say, they might warm up to you a bit.

At the same time, Mr. Obama’s aides said they were not concerned with exit polls showing that he had hemorrhaged white working-class voters to Mrs. Clinton in Kentucky, mirroring similar findings in Indiana, Pennsylvania and Ohio. Many Clinton voters in Kentucky said they would stay home or vote for Mr. McCain in the fall. Two in 10 Democratic voters in Kentucky said race was a factor in their choice, and they overwhelmingly voted for Mrs. Clinton.

“You can’t look at it that way,” said David Plouffe, Mr. Obama’s campaign manager. “There’s enough evidence now in public polls that in a general election against McCain, in the states that will determine the presidency, her supporters are coming our way. I think this is an issue that in 30 or 60 days we will not be talking about.”

Is that so? So in David Plouffe thinks that in a month or two, I’m just going to magically warm up to Barack and forget all the nasty race-baiting and sexist attacks that have been thrown at Hillary and by extension, at us, her supporters. Let me think about that for a minute.

Hmmmm….. nope, I don’t think so. Not gonna happen. No freakin’ way.

132 Responses

  1. 45 points??!! Now THAT’S a thumpin’!

  2. Whaaaaa?

    I saw on CNN this morning that 100% of the precincts were in in Kentucky – and HRC won by 35%.

    We all know that CNN never lies! LOL

    (Seriously. WTF! Must update my blog.)

  3. ummh? That is not what they have in their map totals: 65/30.

  4. I agree – a real THUMPIN!

  5. Could it be wrong? Look at the article. I’ll check elsewhere.

  6. You’re right, the map says 65-30. I don’t get it. The story is new.
    It’s for tomorrow’s paper.

  7. Something is definitely up with Kentucky.

    The CNN site shows Kentucky was updated (in red) 5 minutes ago.

    Now, HRC now has 40 delegates to Obama’s 16 (she only had 37 before). Did more delegates declare themselves for her, or did more votes come in?

    Maybe the NY Times has more updated information?

    [scratches head]

  8. Well, are they taking out statistical noise? Often when votes are reported they take out the noise, ie, votes for other peopleno longer running/no votes, etc. And report the results just between the candidates.

  9. KY Sec. of State: 65.5 to 30.0 with 100% of the votes counted.

  10. I think they discount the 3% that were uncommitted than split the rest to get that number….that make sense?

  11. The NYT story that I linked was published 1 hour ago. I can’t believe they would make a mistake like that.

  12. Exactly, Gary.

  13. If you ignore votes for Edwards and Uncommitted, 65.5-30.0 becomes 69%-31%, which is a 38 point spread.

    Maybe they mean spread in “delegates”, which was 37-14, which translates into 73%-27%, or 46 points.

  14. Again, KY Sec. of State: Uncommitted: 2.5, John Edwards: 2.0. Adds up to 100%. I’ll take a 35.5 point victory. Still excellent.

  15. Gary, Do you think I should leave the post up for now or what?

  16. The story clearly says “votes,” not delegates. It can’t be a typo, because the numbers are too different.

  17. Yeah, I think NY times effed up. Even without the noise it doesn’t work out that way.

  18. i don’t think its a mistake or particularly misleading. in the race solely between the two of them, that was the difference in votes. I saw another news organization do the same thing with WV last week bboomer–I would leave it as is.

  19. I don’t know then if its just plain wrong. I’d leave it but check the link to the NYT and if they correct it, than correct the post, but that’s just my opinion

  20. ok, is it me or did Hillary put the Party on notice today, I interpret her Baton Rouge speech as doing just that; to the DNC and Dem Leadership if you don’t count Mich and Fla all RULZ are open now could we have a Independent run in the works maybe, hopefully ….and Blumenthal is correct no one buys the third Bush term DNC strategy against McCain its rings false.

  21. Great catch, BB. I skipped that story because I was tired of the press tooting its horn for Obama, but you definitely caught them in an error.

  22. The reporters are looking at the Repiblican results. McCain won by 72%. On the D side, Obama didn’t *quite* break 30% (bwahahahahahahhh!)

  23. Salty–Baton Rouge? I thought she was in Palm Beach today.

  24. I am just confused by all of this anger that HRC is not winning the nomination. Before the nomination process even began, there was a mutually agreed upon model to decide the eventual winner. As silly as the rules may be, to change them after the fact is an even more ludicrous proposition.

    On women’s rights, tax policy, healthcare and education, as well as a myriad of smaller issues, both Democratic party candidates seem to agree. Given the similarities between them, and the fact that one is, in fact, earning more delegates, why not be happy that person shares many of the same views?

    Perhaps this isn’t the best way to structure the contest, and maybe it will prove unsatisfactory in the general election, but that is for future participants to decide.

    …and no, I am not an Obamamaniac or even expecting to vote for him.

    I’m a member of the Green Party

  25. Oh brother, another member of the peanut gallery heard from. Nobody is trying to change the rulz, confused one. At least nobody on our side. But whatever……

  26. People really in the green party are for counting votes, all votes.

    And if the two candidates are “really just the same on all the issues,” as supposedly objective people keep claiming, why does only one get to be the voice of change?

    Shouldn’t the bar be higher for the change candidate?

  27. This would not be the first time that a bunch of pinheads have won the battle and lost the war.

  28. From the actual votes (as posted on CNN), I calculate 66.83 for Senator Clinton, 30.55 for Senator Obama and 2.63 other.

    I think the NYT messed up.

    Impressive win by Senator Clinton anyway.

  29. I tried to post this in the previous thread, but the comment seems to have been lost.

    PLEASE draw attention to the excellent speech by Hillary in Florida. PLEASE!


  30. Riverdaughter,

    WordPress doesn’t seem to want me to draw attention to Hillary’s EXCELLENT speech in Florida. 😦

    Hillary says count the Florida Votes:

  31. OK, I changed the headline and added something about Hillary’s speech in Florida. I was just trying to put up something so we could have a new thread. The comments are building up so quickly these days.

  32. please, please, pleaaaaaseee, all of you who are really interested in a “meaninful dialogue” and that “would gladly vote for Hillary if she were the nominee”, will you leave us alone if I “promise” to vote for Obama.

    Also, some talking head (Gergen) at CNN says that Hillary should reject “racist” votes…WTF?


  33. BB: I think you should point out that Nagourney made a boo-boo and they ought to correct it.

  34. BB: can you rescue my recent post? Thanks.

  35. I rescued some posts from the spam filter.

    Whew! This blogging thing is hard work! Oops, I sound like Dubya. OK RD, I’m gonna go tell Adnags that he goofed bigtime.

  36. Hi BostonBoomer,

    I can’t wait for another Obama speech. I think I’ve got some laundry to do and that would probably be a good time to get it done.

    I’m glad Hillary’s talking openly about going all the way to the convention. I really think it’s important.

    Today I went for a walk with a co-worker and I asked if she was following the election. She said yes — she was up ’till nearly midnight voting. (it took a moment to realize she was talking about Kansas City’s own David Cook)

    When we got back to the real election (and after her fan-glazed eyes cleared) she said that she “doesn’t know if she can vote for either of them” (Who? I asked) — McCain or Obama (she said). McCain doesn’t believe in anything I believe in (she said) and I don’t have any idea what Obama believes in. And (she said) I don’t think I don’t think I trust him.

    Also, much later in the conversation she casually mentioned that her husband also doesn’t know what to do.

    Now we live in Kansas so there’s no chance Obama would win. But, he did sweep our caucuses so I think it’s interesting to hear from 2 Democrats that they can’t vote for him.

  37. “I have tremendous respect for Sen. Clinton and would be excited to vote for her in November if she ends up being the democratic nominee.”

    What have I done to deserve this?

  38. Senior thesis by Tito the Troll. What next?

  39. anybody know if there was any movement among SD’s today?

  40. ghost2, on May 21st, 2008 at 5:06 pm Said:

    Thanks for the video but those bums at MSNBC cut it as she was making an important point. I wonder if C-Span will have full video of it or I hope the Clinton campaign can put it on their website.

  41. Michigan needs a revote. Any chance they’ll authorize one at May 31st?

  42. Tito:

    I, like Hillary, have said all along that we can’t disenfranchise two states, especially two big swing states. It’s against our basic principles, and it’s politically stupid too.

    I, like Hillary, assumed that some sort of re-votes would be worked out, but Obama blocked them. Now, the only choice is to seat them as-is. He made his bed, let him lie in it.

    BTW – you are the gazillionth troll to try the same f**ked-up “if things were reversed” b*llsh*t. It didn’t work before either.

  43. “There are also things I don’t like about Sen. Obama.”

    Okay Tito, you opened the door, so please list all the things you don’t like about Senator Obama.

  44. Tito,

    Your lengthy post is under moderation for the time being. If you would like to post something a little briefer, maybe someone will be willing to interact with you. Please don’t post any more doctoral theses until we get to know you a little better, okay?

  45. myiq2xu:

    I will if you are also willing to list the things you don’t like about Sen. Clnton.

  46. #
    bostonboomer, on May 21st, 2008 at 4:42 pm Said:

    Gary, Do you think I should leave the post up for now or what?”

    :how you can tell this is a refugee site…what a pathetic regard for reality…

    I’m just disgusted with bostonboomer and her ridiculous pandering after accuracy!


  47. boomer (and all):

    Sorry for the length. I started typing, and guess I didn’t realize how long I went on.

  48. grayslady,

    Look at this way. They wouldn’t be bugging us like this if they weren’t really really really scared. I can’t believe how much the traffic on this blog has increased since WV.

    Hillary has the big mo, and they know it. We have to stay focused and make sure the news gets out, because the corporate media and the O-borg is gonna do everything they can to distract us and try to conceal the fact that Hillary deserves the nomination.

  49. Tito, why don’t you start by telling us two things you don’t like about Barack Obama.

  50. Tito: It’s a deal!

    Here’s my list of things I don’t like about Hillary:

    1. She didn’t run for President in 2004

    2. She didn’t fire Mark Penn sooner.

  51. BB: that is a “perverse” way to look at it. heh.

  52. Gary,

    Hillary got one new SD in Ohio this morning.

  53. Breaking…..

    Ben Smith at Politico is reporting that in response to Hillary’s speech today in Boca Raton, David Axelrod told NPR

    “We are open to comprise [sic]. We are willing to go more than half way. We’re willing to work to make sure that we can achieve a compromise. And I guess the question is: is Senator Clinton’s campaign willing to do the same?”

    Axelrod continues: “Well, obviously, any compromise is going to involve some give, and that means if there’s something on the table, we’re willing to consider it. That may include us yielding more delegates than perhaps we would have, simply on the basis of the rules.”


  54. Don’t feed the trolls.

  55. Hillary said it best herself in this vid:

  56. 1. I don’t like his disingenuousness about lobbyists. While it is true that due to his shorter political history he doesn’t have as many ties as McCain, Clinton (Edwards, Romney, etc.), lobbyists are part of big money politics. It’s naive to think that someone involved in senatorial, much less presidential, politics could effect such a shift.

    2. The range of Hillary’s public speeches has been broader. Obama is partially constrained by the branding limitations of introducing a new candidate, but it has been frustrating how hard he hits his talking points, particularly in comparison with how light on her feet Hillary is.

    3. The “clinging to guns, religion, etc.” remark was one of the stupidest things said recently by a politician.

    4. Who bowls a 37?

  57. The real sticking point will be MI in terms of the popular count: Obama should get no votes because he chose to remove his name from the ballot and blocked a revote, however, the DNC is desperate to not appear “unfair” to Obama (read: hold him accountable for being outrageously stupid).

  58. LOL @ myig2xu!

  59. Hi Katiebird,

    I hear similar things from people I know around here. It seems like most people have very little idea of what Obama stands for, and they can’t figure out why he is even running. What qualifies him to be President? That’s what I hear from people who aren’t political junkies.

  60. Señor Alexrod: a flying leap – take it!

  61. BB–re “Breaking”: She’s making them sweat. The last thing they need is to have 17 million voters believe that The Presumptuous One is not the legitimate nominee. Go Hillary!

  62. @Grayslady: The GOP will make sure everyone knows that by September (if he’s the nominee). Count on it. My God, the DNC is still rigging the nomination process.

    Clinton is flat-out being robbed of the nomination and, likely, the presidency.

  63. There’s a Michigan primary on Aug. 5th. Settle it there.

  64. Gergen assumes that “race is a factor” = unilaterally “racist.”
    Now, if you were upset because you felt the other campaign was calling you racist, then race would be a factor in your vote, now, wouldn’t it.

  65. Date: May 21, 2008 6:07 PM EDT
    Contact: Me
    Fayetteville, NC xxxxxxxx
    Amount: $100.00

    It’s my “Ky victory” donation!

    Haven’t watched any Florida coverage today (Sen. Obama was on at my local Burger King when I was grabbing lunch on the go…I tuned him out….). What’s the verdict??

    President Bush will be in town tomorrow…~groan~

    And, in the interest of party unity, I agree to support the nominee…whoever she may be.

  66. Oh wow, Axelrod is caving. 1.7 million people voted Axelrod, Deal with It.

  67. As for Michigan, accept a revote on Aug. 5th or Obama gets 0 votes from the state. He made a tactical error and should not be rewarded for it.

  68. “We are open to comprise” “Well, obviously, any compromise is going to involve some give, and that means if there’s something on the table, we’re willing to consider it. That may include us yielding more delegates than perhaps we would have, simply on the basis of the rules.”

    Unbelievable. Simply unbelievable.

  69. Melanie,

    It’s a step forward. Previously they were not open to any compromise. They are running scared.

  70. Hillary’s Haka time.

    Her speech said what had to be said: We are Democrats and we fight for the franchise. We are undermining fundamental tenets of the Democratic Party if we work to actively push for disenfranchisement.

    It’s going to be hard to justify disenfranchisement. The Democratic Party disintegrates if Obama decides to use the nuclear option.

  71. Haka? As in the Maori ritual?

  72. I think axelrod is really scared. did you see that speech? She said that in order for the party to go forward united FL and MI must be seated FULLY. She didn’t make it sound like there was any other option. And I took the whole “go forward united” to be a thinly veiled threat to bolt the party, and I’m all for it. Anybody else get that same vibe?

  73. One of the Obamnauts I work with was bugging me about Hillary all day. “Puh leeze tell me what’s wrong with you people. Why don’t you want to , uh .. unite with uh…”

    This kid didn’t even know what to say. It was like the Star Trek episode where the robots went insane. “Brain and brain! What is brain?”

  74. Of course they’re running scared. They’ve got a whole passel of pi$$ed of women folk snapping at their heels. And quite a few menfolk too. That is those of us Dumb Hillary supporters that’s smart enough to figure out what’s been going on. 🙂

  75. she made a hard case to argue with today too. She used the FL supreme court in 2000 to count all votes to set precedent, then she almost dared them to take sides with the US supremes who overturned their ruling and installed GWB. the whole “unfair” thing is BS too. If they had counted earlier on, she would already be the nominee. She has waited, hung in there, and now they ALL must be seated

  76. Gary,

    There is no reason whatsoever for the FL and MI votes not to be included in the popular vote. Whether or not the delegates are seated, those vote were certified. I wonder if there is any way you can get into that meeting on the 31st and liveblog?

  77. kenoshaMarge – I’m the only Hillary supporter in my office. I don’t talk about it, but people know. I’m 56 and proud of it. The summer interns are just getting settled in their cubicles. It seems the Obama supporters are more in the thing for the social aspect of the thing.

    They see that their party is not so fun now. People won’t uh, unite and stuff. Politics may be ard-hay ork-way. That wasn’t the plan.

  78. Oh, good Lord! Now, they’ve even hired astrologists to try and give Obama the election.
    This is from the Denver Post, and it’s listed as THE TOP news story of the hour on AOL.com.
    “A panel at the United Astrology Conference in Denver predicts that Sen. Barack Obama would be the ultimate winner of the presidential contest this fall — but one says there may be a threat to him actually taking office next January.”
    My husband also told me that FoxNews ran a story at lunchtime with three psychics who said they could predict the GE. They’ve all had visions that at some point in July an unforeseen, momentous event will cross both Obama and McCain’s celestial charts. When asked what they meant, one of them said that the people who are on the ballot now might not be on it in November.
    Please tell me that I woke up in some alternate universe this morning, because the news media couldn’t have gone this batsh*t crazy. Could they?

  79. Nancy Reagan’s astrologers told me the same thing.

  80. Lucinda: Yes. SASQ

  81. bboomer- that’s what I plan to do. I thought I heard that it is open to the public. If I can get in i’ll liveblog the whole thing

  82. The astrologers and psychics are of a piece with all the hopey changey woo being flung.

  83. Arabella:

    They are as confused as missionaries who can’t understand why the heathens won’t convert no matter how hard they whip them.

  84. myiq2xu – Heh. Yeah, the remind me of the old Bugs Bunny cartoon where Elmer Fudd tries to hypnotize Bugs so he can catch him. Of course the wascally wabbit keeps foiling Elmer’s attempts to put him under.

    At the end, Elmer blubbers “How can I catch you if you won’t stand still and let me magically hypnotize you!”

  85. Speaking of astrology: HRC is a damn Scorpio. Shit, those are signs not to be trifled with. They apparently are supposed to have fearless gladiator spirits who fight to the death.

  86. Scorpio, eh? Hmmmm….. That explains a lot.

  87. Just in case there are one or two of the whimpering 400 still lurking in this thread, I want to clarify something. This is me speaking only for myself, though I know that I am not the only one who feels this way. It bears repeating:

    There is NOTHING Obama can do to “make it up to me” in order to get my vote in November. It is TOO LATE. He’s had months. He went into this primary season as the candidate I was leaning toward. HE screwed it up, the rampant misogyny displayed by HIM and HIS campaign and HIS supporters and HIS fawning media fanboys helped solidify my disgust for him, and HE cemented my opinion for good when HE fought the possibility of revotes.

    In the meantime, Hillary Clinton won me over by being the smartest, toughest, wonkiest, most capable, and most gracious candidate it’s ever been my privilege to support. SHE more than made up for the revulsion I feel for her opponent and for the DNC, the dedication of HER campaign and HER supporters is such a clear contrast to the other side that there is really, for me, no contest.

    In short, trolls, I will share with you something I can’t wait to tell Obama in August: You LOSE! GOOD DAY, SIR!

  88. “They’ve all had visions that at some point in July an unforeseen, momentous event will cross Obama and McCain’s celestial charts …”

    A giantic asteroid belt composed of women, retired people, blue collar workers, hillbillies LGBT, low information voters, and smart men.

  89. myiq2xu — I was just going to go re-read your wonderful Mole-wacking groundhog day post but, I can’t get into Corrente.

  90. Personally I prefer to have the votes in Michigan counted as they were cast and certified by our Secretary of State. That’s the way we voted and the way it should stand. Obama should learn that there are consequences for his decision to remove himself from our ballots. The uncommitteds can be handled as uncommitteds are. Our governor Granholm is a strong and vocal Hillary supporter. But our Senator Levin I’m not sure. And if he supports Obama that would be very telling since he was one of the key players on the Michigan side who helped screw this up for us.

  91. @KB: I’m having problems with Corrente, too.

  92. The information on the DC meeting on the 31st has been released


    DNC Rules & Bylaws Committee to Meet Saturday, May 31st

    WASHINGTON – The Democratic National Committee’s Rules & Bylaws Committee will meet on Saturday May 31, 2008 in Washington, DC. The Rules and Bylaws Committee will consider the two challenges that have been filed pursuant to Rule 20.B of the 2008 Delegate Selection Rules and Regulation 3 of the Regulations of the Rules and Bylaws Committee concerning the seating of delegations from Florida and Michigan.

    Pursuant to Section 3.4(N) of the Committee’s Regulations, each challenger will be entitled to present an Oral Argument before the RBC prior to Committee consideration for a period of 15 minutes each. A representative from each state party and from each presidential campaign will also have an opportunity to address the committee regarding each of the challenges. Oral arguments from the parties will be heard during the committee’s morning session. Following a lunch break, committee members will consider and debate the challenges.

    What: DNC Rules & Bylaws Committee Meeting

    When: May 31, 2008 – 9:30 AM

    Morning Session: Oral Arguments

    Afternoon Session: Consideration and Debate

    Where: Marriott Wardman Park Hotel – Salon I

  93. I can’t get on Corrente either.

  94. Hi Davidson! Have they always been on Drupal or are they making a switch?

  95. “Taking it to the convention!!” I’ve been waiting a long time for her to say that. Music to my ears.

  96. (humming) I’m singing it with you, ben.

  97. theseahag — right on, sister. you speak perfectly for me sweetie.

    arabella– “How can I catch you if you won’t stand still and let me magically hypnotize you!” Perfect! that is them to a tee!

    we are winning this, folks. go puerto rico! the voters in FL and MI will be the final piece.

    I love to hear comments from michigan and florida, boy are they pissed! and rightly so.

    Maggie, what DO they do with uncommitted votes?

  98. Reposting Ella, in case you missed my reply downstairs and also to add my voice to theseahag’s and davidson and many others who have said NO WAY to obama:

    it is not scolding for a presumptive leader of democratic women to take an unequivocal stand against misogyny. It is leadership.
    yes, it’s the “when she’s down” comment. Listen to wright ridicule Monica Lewinsky for being “ridden dirty” by Bill Clinton.
    He wanted the sexism to work in his favor. You’re probably right that it was an explicit campaign strategy to let Hillary stand alone to face the onslaught of woman-hatred and bile. That strategy is, on the face of it, despicable. I wouldnt allow a dog to be treated the way he has allowed her to be treated. I wouldnt support a democrat who let that kind of hatred stand against a republican. To do it to a fellow democrat is unforgiveable to me.
    But really, my feelings are beside the point. The cold hard fact I’m left with is that Barack Obama, by his actions and inactions, by the actions and inactions of his supporters, his family members, and his campaign staff have made it clear to me that he has no intention of standing up for women in this country.
    There are 99 reasons I’m a democrat, but that asshole isnt one.

  99. murphy – At the end of the cartoon Bugs took pity on Elmer Fudd and said “OK, Doc. I’ll stand still.” Then Elmer started hypnotizing Bugs Bunny. Bugs held a mirror in front of his face so Elmer wound up hypnotizing himself.

  100. I’ve been thinking about trying to organize local (in my case Kansas City) people to watch the May 31 meeting as a group.

    We’d have to find a place with a TV. See if people in (whatever ) area are interested.

    And announce it to local media.

    This is just a vague idea. But I wonder if it’s possible?

  101. not sure what the rule here is about swearing. sometimes i just can’t stop myself.

    sorry sweeties.

  102. @KB: I believe they’ve always been on Drupal.

    @BB: Yes, Scorpios are deadly. My dad is a Scorpio and he epitomizes that intensity. The man would die for his principles. And he’s a huge Clinton supporter. I think he’s almost smitten with her.

  103. All the astrology talk got me wondering…

    Hillary and I share a birthday! Woo Hoo – one more reason (IMO) she should be president!

  104. My father is smitten with her too! He’s close to her age, so it’s appropriate, and quite cute.

    He asked me a while back why people kept calling her unattractive. He said, “I think she’s very attractive, even beautiful.”

    Fathers of Hillary supporters tend to be pretty cool guys I’d bet.

  105. Men who support Hillary Clinton are pretty cool people. I salute them!

  106. I have to say, though, what is it with Florida? They just can’t seem to get it right. I wonder if Teresa LaPore had something to do with this.

    The Obamans forget that the Republican legislature and governor FORCED this on the voters. They had no choice in the matter.

    You know “running out the clock” is not leadership. It’s cowardly.

  107. arabella — I love love love bugs bunny. thanks for reminding me!

    their magical hypnotizing skillz are being shown to be pretty ridiculous lately huh? 40 point margins against him in solid democratic states as BB points out in this post.

    People know exactly what they are doing when they are turning out in HUGE numbers to support Hillary this far into the primary season and in the face of incessant drivel about his inevitability. They are sending a message Loud and Clear — we will not support this rookie, weakling candidate if you force him down our throats.

  108. Why haven’t caucus numbers been released?

  109. ben — very true. Obama has never shown leadership. not once.

    I will donate $25 to the Obama campaign for the first example anyone can point me to of Obama’s real leadership.

  110. murphy, fyi—“sweeties” is not a compliment here.

    “Sweetie” = one of the hired Obama bloggers who are trying to make nice OR an Obama concern troll

  111. Hey Murphy, you might want to qualify what “showing leadership” looks like. Somebody might think the speech into the taperecorder counts…

  112. Fathers of Hillary supporters tend to be pretty cool guys I’d bet.

    Sons of Hillary supporters are cool guys to. Well, at least this one. Haha.

  113. “Obama has never shown leadership. not once.”

    Before the Big Break (RIGHT after Super Tuesday, I remember telling Ezra Klein that I thought Obama would be in a much more powerful position if he accepted Florida & Michigan at full strength.

    That people would think of him as a leader — a statesman if he did that. And he’d eventually absorb the delegate loss.

    He didn’t get it — no one there did.

    Well, Obama’s the guy who ran a primary by NOT running in one of the primaries. And my mother in law thinks that’s “pissant”

  114. murphy, I wish I knew what they do with the uncommitteds. Does anyone else know? I’ve been lead to believe that delegates are elected with that status and they go the convention that way and make up their minds. I’ve heard our state has elected delegates already. But I’m not familiar with any of the specifics since I’m a “voter”. But the fact that our votes were repressed along with media bias and unfair treatment of Hillary got my attention. I’m afraid there are still too many other Americans who are busy living their lives and working hard who don’t understand what’s really going on here. This whole thing has me very worried about our future and our safety.

  115. @murphy: My dad, 55, finds her attractive as well. And being a badass is a big plus for him (see: my mom). We–my parents, sister, and I–have all met her in person a few times and she’s got a great personality: charismatic, warm, and quite funny (razor-sharp wit).

  116. Murphy, I caught it on the other thread and replied there — thanks! (Still wondering about the haka comment at the top of the thread; quite an odd image to think of a moko-sporting Hillary [url=http://www.digitalus.co.nz/poi/images/warrior.jpg]mid-haka[/url]!)

  117. Maggie, I think that when they did the delegate selection for Michigan that Hillary actually picked up 3 (?) delegates.

  118. 99% of Oregon in and Hillary will get 140-141 K vote get from Kentucky (249000-108000 = 141 K votes roughly)

    WV + KY vote get = 288 K

    On to Puerto Rico!!!

  119. GQ, yes you ARE cool. like arabella said, men who support Hillary are cool dudes.

    Katiebird, your mil is right, and so were you in your comments to ezra.

    Ohio, thanks for the tip, but I use the label sweetie with pride. I’m a card-carrying member of the sweetie brigade — voters who have been dismissed, insulted, and told we are not needed by Obama and his henchmen in the DNC.

    I also use the term to remind ourselves of how truly dismissive Obama is of women.

    Plus, I like the term. It’s sweet. And Hillary supporters are sweet. Just like grandmas. and gay friends. and union guys. and rural gun owners. We are sweet. But we’re not stupid. We recognize an empty suit and a sure loser when we see one. And we will not hand our party over to him and his fairy tale spinners.

  120. Oh, and murphy — I also believe that if he’d done that he’d have won it by now.

    And — that’s why he’ll lose. It’s too late now.

  121. Yup, there were so many things he could have done to win this by now, including getting women to support him by standing against the insane hillary hatred. So many women have hardened their hearts to him because of everything he HASN’T done. So sad for him because he brought it on himself.

    His massive bungling of FL and MI is more evidence of his political naivete.

  122. This is something I heard from a few Florida legislators that were with Hillary for the Maya Angelou event in NC. Most of us here know that the Republican legislature are the ones responsible for moving up Florida’s primary. But did you know that they numbered the bill “537”? 537 is the number of votes by which Gore lost to Bush in 2000.
    Can you believe that? The Republicans are laughing at Howard Dean, Donna Brazile and the like. They set the trap, and the DNC fell for it.

  123. Hey everybody!

    Hillary has been making my point – to not seat the delegates & POPULAR VOTE of Florida is doing what was done to Gore in 2000.

    It’s not a Democracy if we don’t count the votes – ALL the votes.

    537 cannot be repeated!!!

  124. “murphy, on May 21st, 2008 at 8:16 pm Said:
    Yup, there were so many things he could have done to win this by now, including getting women to support him by standing against the insane hillary hatred.”

    Oh, but the Precious said yesterday that Hillary was making the world better for his daughters.

    It’s always about him, isn’t it?

  125. a friend sent me an interesting article from the Chicago Tribune about the ‘demonization’ of Hillary


  126. yup, all him, all the time.

    My 25 bucks is so far safe. No one has come up with an example of Obama showing true leadership.

    And i trust the peeps here to not let their hillary support get in the way of honesty. If anyone here knew of a leadership moment they would point it out.

    we’re decent, that’s why. we dont like to see distinguished pubic servants’ records trashed for cheap political short-term gain.

  127. kiki, I read that the other day. thanks for linking to it.

    The author crystallizes for me the reason why the samantha power “monster” comment was so egregious. Calling a powerful woman a monster is the oldest trick in the misogynist’s playbook. Lillith, Grendel, harpies, sirens and on and on. Strip her of her humanity to justify her destruction.

    Power, an educated and elite fighter for human rights who hails from the land of harpies knows better. or at least should have.

  128. Two SD’s for Hillary today – 1 from Mass, 1 from Ohio

  129. Okay, I don’t know the rules on here about “crystal-ball gazing,” but I’m going to try my luck.

    Going to the convention makes bushels and bushels of sense to me, here’s a few of reasons:

    1. Sen. Clinton needs to be seen as giving the googoo-pie-eyed delegates every last possible chance to fall out of their pre-teen crush with the Precious One. Going to the convention will place an indelible mark on their otherwise limited memories that yes, indeed, the party had a choice in 2008, but the “I Heart Precious” crowd would hear nothing of it.

    2. The pundits don’t realize this, but shunning FL and MI also costs votes throughout the midwest and new england. A large number of folks living in FL and MI have relations in any number of states beyond their borders. It isn’t a secret that Barry doesn’t want to count MI and FL and folks to talk. Sen. Clinton by trumpeting the cause is building currency throughout the midwest and new england for the kinfolk of MI and FL.

    3. Okay, this is the crystal ball gazing one and I must admit, a little hopeful on my part as well. After the night of the WV primary several pundits over several channels reported that various Clinton campaign officials had appeared overly confident that evening. In different encounters the Clinton campaign officials had said, “There’s something big going to happen in June.” One of the officials was reported to be Terry McAuliffe who has never learned to switch himself to the off position. So, Sen. Clinton needs to stay in purportedly until the convention, but my bet is if this tidbit is true, it won’t need to be until the convention. If something “big” enough happens in June, there won’t be any need for a convention fight — it will all be over except for the shouting. What might this “big” thing be? Rumors abound — might the drugs have not stopped so long ago, might some of the rumors about sorrid trysts be true, but who knows, whatever it is, let’s hope it is “big” enough.

    In any event, off to the convention.

  130. Re Florida compromise:

    Slaves were counted as 3/5 of a citizen, for purposes of distribution of Congressional seats, before President Abraham Lincoln’s Emancipation Proclamation. What Howard Dean proposes is Florida’s several million Democratic voters are counted as 1/2 a citizen.

  131. May 21, 2008 (LPAC)–With her speech today in Palm Beach, Sen. Hillary Clinton has also placed Floridians’ Constitutional right to have their votes fully counted, in the long progress of ending slavery and winning the right to vote for Black Americans and women. Clinton was speaking to senior citizens, some of whom lost their votes in the Florida recount debacle in the 2000 Presidential election.

    She did it while making clear she is continuing until the Democratic National Convention, if necessary, to win this fight for Florida and Michigan, and calling on Sen. Barack Obama to join it.

    On slavery or the right to vote: “In each successive generation, this nation was blessed by men and women who refused to accept their assigned place as second-class citizens … The abolitionists and all who fought to end slavery, and ensure that freedom came with the full right of citizenship.”

    On the Constitutional principle: “We have certain core rights that no government can abridge and these rights are rooted in, and sustained by the principle that our Founders set forth in the Declaration of Independence. That a just government derives its power from the consent of the governed, that each of us should have an equal voice in determining the destiny of our nation.”

    On the Florida disenfranchisement of 2000–by corporate purging of public voter lists, Wall Street lawyers’ disruption of recounts, and Supreme Court overrule: “We believe that the outcome of our elections should be determined by the will of the people. Nothing more, nothing less. And we believe the popular vote is the truest expression of your will. We believe it today just as we believed it back in 2000 when right here in Florida you learned the hard way what happens when you’re votes aren’t counted and a candidate with fewer votes is determined the winner.

    “I believe the Democratic Party must count these votes. They should count them exactly as they were cast.

    “Some say that counting Florida and Michigan would be changing the rules. I say that not counting Michigan and Florida is changing a central governing rule of this country–that whenever we can understand the clear intent of the voters, their votes should be counted.”

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