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Monday: You say you want a Revolution

The maddening thing about Florida and Michigan is that the DNC has been sitting on these two states all primary season, deliberately withholding their critical mass so that Barack Obama’s delegate count looks inflated. All season long, it has appeared that he was ahead. This was by design. It gave his campaign the advantage of looking like an unstoppable force of nature and his supporters a million different ways of talking about the math, not the map.

But it *is* the MAP, not the math that counts here. Because without that critical mass of Florida and Michigan, every other vote from a state that went for Clinton doesn’t count. The DNC lowered the bar for the anti-Clinton candidate from 2210 delegates to 2025 by sitting on Florida and Michigan. It’s not just that Florida and Michigan have been disenfranchised, it’s ALL of the Clinton states including CA, NY, NJ, AZ, OH, TX, PA, IN, MA, NH, AR, NM, WV, TN, etc, etc. If you live in one of those states that went decisively for Clinton, your vote was just as much hostage as a vote in Florida and Michigan. It’s just one more insult to voters in a party where the primary process is more important than the people and where gaming the system leads to a predetermined outcome.

It’s one thing to get mad. But what can you do about it, you ask? What can one person do to make her vote count? Demand that Florida and Michigan be seated as is. The time for revotes has come and gone and Obama obstructed them anyway in order to maintain the perception of an insurmountable lead. He has forfeited any reasonable argument for less than full recognition. The voters of Florida and Michigan are innocent victims in all of the political shenanigans and so are we. See the links below to do what you can to bring Florida to a resolution or start a Revolution.

You wanna do even more? FDR has a rally…


One other thing:  Some of you are getting a little PO’d about Obama’s use of the past tense when it comes to Hillary.  How many times do we need to go over this?  They are playing mind games, people.  Even if he does stupidly go in front of the cameras tomorrow night and crown himself king, he has to wait out the next three months because nothing is official until the balloons drop in Denver.  In the meantime, he’s going to be sweating bullets because *we* have something the DNC desperately wants. And they are not going to get it by continuing their bad behavior.  We all have choices.  You have a lot more power than you think. Now, turn off the news, re-register as an unaffiliated voter, send your old torn up registration card to Howard and Donna and send Hillary a ten spot.  Don’t make me come over there.  :-||

173 Responses

  1. Holy Cow RD, do you ever sleep?

  2. Do YOU??

  3. No. Not really. But I’m on the west coast and I don’t have to be at work until later in the day.

  4. How do you know I didn’t write this post and comments last night, scheduled for it to go off at 4:20am and am sleeping right now?

  5. Okay. You got me with that one. I have almost no idea on how blogs are run so you could tell me just about anything and I’d believe you.

  6. There’s a very fair and balanced article up on the Washington Post about using a statistical model to determine GE results from the primaries.


    I hope this link works. It’s called Behavior: The Magic Ingredient, by Shankar Vedantam.

    The author does say that Hillary and Obama both would beat McCain, with the edge going to Hillary. Naturally, it’s a highly recommended read!

  7. I can’t wait until I’ll get to sleep again :o). Why do I always procrastinate?

  8. I have to say, trying to describe statistical coupling analysis for non math-nerds at 2 a.m. isn’t as easy as I’d hoped it would be. Can’t I just show them the code? It’s well commented.

    I’m surprised there isn’t a Wikipedia site for SCA. It’s a pretty cool technique.

    BTW, good morning all.

  9. Sigh… There seemed to be an influx of trolls over at talkleft, both lousy and better quality “sweetie”.
    The new “sweeties” are subtler in their obama support and will equally lament both obama’s supporters and hillary’s supporters behavior. There is the new argument that if you are against misogyny and sexism, it is unthinkable that you would vote for Mccain, i.e. roe & wade.

  10. gqm: you’re way too edumacated and overqualified for Hillary.

  11. Riverdaughter,

    If you are still here, will you please tell me what you think about Obama talking about Hillary’s campaign in the past tense and referring to himself already as the nominee. I heard audio of this on CNN radio this morning. How can he get away with this?

    Also, on MSNBO this morning, they are saying that Obama is thinking about asking Chuck Hagel to be his VP. WTF?!

  12. Does anyone know who kidnapped Joe Scarborough? He’s been gone for a very long time. Have they dumped him because he said nice things about Hillary?

  13. BB: You mean other than he’s an arrogant SOB and a fool if he declares he’s the winner before the convention? Other than the fact that he’s giving all of us Hillary Supporters a giant Fuck You and alienating even MORE voters for November?
    I have no clue what it means except that the DNC consists of a bunch of very stupid people.

  14. Well yes, but what are we going to do about it? I’m trying to keep myself from slipping into helplessness this morning. I’m going back and forth between fighting mad and feeling like there is no way to fight both the media and the DNC. I wonder if Steve Corbett will talk about Operation Turndown again today? That might help.

  15. BB: You’re watching the news again, aren’t you? You always have a choice. They want what you have. If they’re going to get it, they’d better start kissing your ass.
    The convention isn’t until August. There is plenty of time for the superdelegates to get the message.

  16. RD, I use the Bill O’Reilly technique of sounding smart: say something with confidence even if you have no idea what you are talking about. It works really well unless you get called on it. Unfortunately, we can’t all cut off peoples mics.

    I’m kinda interested in whether or not Obama goes through with his declaration. He may have super-ds lined up to put him over the hump, but given that 72% don’t want the media to determine the outcome, and most people want this to go to the end, I think there will be significant blowback if this is not allowed to go to completion. Hell, there are only what, three weeks left?

  17. Riverdaughter,

    Well, yes, I just turned the TV on for one minute to see if Joe S. was on and then turned it off. I do sometimes turn on the radio. I guess they are ginning up the haka in preparation for Obama’s crushing humiliation in KY tomorrow night.

    I have now shut off all MSM broadcasting devices in my house. You’re right, and I trust Hillary to keep on plugging.

  18. Hi Riverdaughter and BB!

    Riverdaughter, I think there’s just one way to improve on your post. — Because of proportional representation, Clinton got delegates from every single state.

    Therefore, Obama’s slap in the face is broader than the Clinton Delegates in your list.

    Because of Obaqma’s shenanigans (and I consider his collusion with Dean & Donna B to suppress revotes collusion) she got more delegates in the states she LOST — my own Kansas for example — than she did in Florida and Michigan.

    The entire Clinton Delegation from coast to coast from All 50 (sic) States Plus DC, the territories AND Democrats Abroad (did she get any delegates from this group?) is diluted — muted — distorted.

    The damage is irreparable. Many people are offended by her support of the Michigan and Florida voters while remaining completely satisfied with the fact that Obama and Edwards sabotaged those perfectly legal elections by removing their names from the ballot.

    Speaking as a Hillary voter from Kansas — an early caucus state swept by the Obama Tidal Wave — I too feel disenfranchised.

    I want my delegation whole.

  19. Riverdaughter, you nailed it. By pretending Florida and Michigan don’t count, they inflated Obama’s support and handicapped Hillary’s odds.

    I have been envisioning that lone Hillary supporter at Obama’s rally in SD, silently holding her “Hillary for President” sign for the duration of his rally with turncoat McGovern. Obama cautioned his supporters to be nice, but later chastised her for being rude because she was blocking people’s view, presumably of him. That woman is sort of my new hero. There is something mythical about the portrait.

  20. Even if Michigan and Florida are seated as is, right now, the damage has been done. the party I was a member of for 37 years has reealed itself to me.

    It is not the party I once loved. It is barely a shell of itself. The mistreatment of our great lady Hillary has hardened me. Every time I think of the A list blogger boyz, “yor’re likeable enough Hillary” etc I am enraged. Every woman who was or is a Democrat should reconsider their support.

    I’m for a third party.

    I hope none of you vote for Obama in the fall. Even if you forget about his rotten, sleazy campaign, he is a weak candidate, an empty suit, a no nothing GWBush with a D after his name.

  21. BostonBoomer — shhhh — LET him float that Chuck Hagel Rumor.


    OK, We’ll be running against McCain — the man who would be our VP if Kerry had anything to do with it. And our Presumptuous Nominee wants the Republican Hagel on our ticket as the VP.

    Well, there are nearly 600 hits on “Obama Hagel” in Google News — so this rumor has some legs. Is it coming from Hagel or Obama?

    I’m actually pretty happy with this plan — if Obama eventually becomes the Actual Nominee:

    No Democrat will be tainted by Obama’s historic loss
    The election will have 3 Republicans on the Ballot with Obama as the lone Democrat
    I want to watch.

    I think the stock of popcorn is going to spike sometime this summer

  22. Oh yes one other thing is on my mind….

    Obama said for them to be nice to her supporters….to get votes….not to actually be nice to Hillary. Therefore, all the vitriol that has been directed her way is ok, as long as they suck up to us to make us forget.

    More sleaze.

  23. melanie, is there a pic of that woman?

  24. Not that I know of.

  25. So the DNC and the media are going along with tomorrow coronation, eh? I am sure Obama will cut Hillary’s speech and the whole thing will be a most transcendental event.

    Are we supposed to reset the calendars to 01/01/01 of the new Obama Era or something? Boy, oh boy, Obama is going to look silly in Puerto Rico.

  26. This AM the story is that Obama won’t declare victory tomorrow night….does not want to appear presumtious.

    But will tiptoe right up to the line…..

  27. Soooo, if Hillary is expected to win in KY anyway, what’s to stop her from having her victory speech right about in time for the evening news?

  28. Is the Hagel thing for real? No way…

  29. They are trying to find someone to prop Obama up. He is lacking support from so many constiuncies, they are at a loss. Latinos, Richardson? Working class, Edwards? Women, McCaskill? This one must be Reagan Dem’s. Won’t work. Hagel is a loose cannon. Good luck with all that, BO.

  30. New Suffolk U. polls


    C: 51
    O: 25


    O: 45
    C: 41

  31. ‘morning all… time to send Howard Dean another “love note”…

    I was laughing to myself… what if Al Gore decides to endorse Hillary and they hold a press conference about a half hour before Obama’s “victory speech”…


    I’ve got fresh coffee if anybody needs some.

  32. WS,

    Those polls look mighty good to me. Thanks!

  33. I got elected to be a NC Clinton delegate this weekend, so I’ll be one of the “Hillary warriors” on the convention floor…I’m so excited, but I can’t believe they won’t “solve” Florida and Michigan until the end of the month, yet what’s-his-name plans on calling victory before the DNC announces its “solution”??!!


  34. ABC has a horrible interview with Mr. and Mrs. O. I is so horrible , he goes on this “Leave my wife alone” thing to show that he is a he man. This from the campaign that went out of their way to label President Clinton and racist. MO is out there every day playing the game, if he did not want her to be part of this then he should have told her to stay home. No one would be attacking MO if she was not part of the team. I don’t even know what Mrs. Biden and Mrs. Richardson look like. I know that if he actually, God forbid, got the nomination she would have to be a part of the campaign, but not in the primary .

  35. I watched O’Reilly’s weekend update and two women were featured saying they were not going to vote for Obama b/c of sexism. One was white, one black. The women held up a sign:
    (I think I have all the states correct.) I hope everyone write to them and that we get one in each state. I love that women are remembering what feminism is about! The Politicaltipster says bets are good on Hillary in OR as voters realize Obama cannot win the GE.

  36. captsfufp,

    Congratulations! How exciting. We’ll have to come up with a sign that you can wave so we recognize you on TV.

  37. BB, I was surprised by that Suffolk Oregon poll. Thats in the margin of error.

  38. Congrats 7utu!

  39. Michigan is a different animal than Florida and I lay the blame with the Michigan DEMS there. They were warned before in 2004 by then DNC and current Clinton campaign maven Terry McCauliff not to do it. They were stubborn and I suppose thought Dean would not do what McCauliff promised. He went even farther though.

    Michigan should have immediatly gone with their back up plan after their bluff was called. FL should be seated as is.

    The real problem with the move ahead is the party wants the candidates to spend all their time on the ground in IA and NH first. With so many more delegates at stake in MI who is going to “waste time” on the ground in NH and SC is the theory.

    I could care less about the “early states” elevated place in the nominating calendar but certain renegade states constantly threaten to upset that long established process. Once names were taken off the ballot MI should have cancelled and rescheduled it.

    Another problem now is that if MI and FL are not punished “in some way” the whole thing will repeat in 2012. Of course this camp probably does not care about that given the singular pro-Hillary objective on the issue, but DNC chairs do care. McCauliff cared in 2004, Dean in 2008.

    Givern the conspiracy theory that MI was to help Obama, which I frankly find dubious, what was the conspiracy for McCauliff in 2004? To help Kerry? Maybe it was I have no clue. But this issue is old an ongoing in MI from 2004 threats and thus represents legislative malpractice and disenfranchisement by the MI DEMS in my opinion.

    from 2004

    “They thought I was bluffing. But it was my responsibility as chairman to take action for the good of the party, and taking away half their delegates was well within my authority. Now all the presidential candidates were upset. They were getting calls from Iowa and New Hampshire asking them to pledge to come to their states no matter what Michigan did, putting the candidates in an impossible position. The whole primary calendar was in danger of spinning out of control. The candidates kept calling me and asking what was happening with the schedule, and I made it clear that I was not going to let Michigan throw the entire process out of whack. Finally I’d had enough and scheduled a meeting in Carl’s Senate office for April 2 to settle this once and for all.

    As I was escorted into Carl’s office with my staff, Debbie Dingell and Carl’s chief of staff, David Lyles, were already sitting there waiting with Carl. Sparks flew when I sad down with Phil McNamara and Josh Wachs and immediately complained about all the leaks to the press, which led to finger-jabbing and shouting back and forth between various people in the meeting. Soon, Carl and I were going at it.
    “I’m going outside the primary window,” he told me definitively.
    “If I allow you to do that, the whole system collapses,” I said. “We will have chaos. I let you make the case to the DNC, and we voted unanimously and you lost.”
    He kept insisting that they were going to move Michigan up on their own, even though if they did that, they would lose half their delegates. By that point Carl and I were leaning toward each other over a table in the middle of the room, shouting and dropping the occasional expletive.
    “You won’t deny us seats at the convention,” he said.
    “Carl, take it to the bank,” I said. “They will not get a credential. The closest they’ll get to Boston will be watching it on television. I will not let you break this entire nominating process for one state. The rules are the rules. If you want to call my bluff, Carl, you go ahead and do it.”
    We glared at each other some more, but there was nothing much left to say. I was holding all the cards and Levin knew it.
    “Well, that was a good meeting,” I told my shell-shocked staff on the way out of Carl’s office.

    [Source: McAuliffe, Terry. “What A Party!”, pp. 324, 325.]

    Apparently they needed an even stronger meeting in 2008. I cannot honestly look at the history of this episode and lay the blame on Dean, the DNC or Obama. I suppose I could but its revisionist given 2004. MI DEMS had the responsibility to their voters. They were repeatedly warned and they got their bluff called.

    Certainly it impacted the momentum of the Clinton Obama race. Ironically, if they had stayed in line Clinton might be preparing a premature coronation instead of Obama. The blame however is with MI DEMS.

  40. It was the Repulicans in the Michigan legislature that proposed and passed the early primary. I lay blame at Howard Dean for pretending votes don’t count. At the very least, he should have released a statement that those votes should be including in the reporting of the popular vote. He recently confirmed they shoudl with a group of MA activists, including our Senate President, but has neglected to issue a statement to that affect.

  41. Given 2004 and what they knew would happen all the DEMS should have opposed it. They did not they wanted it and voted for it. Clearly they wanted it in 2004 as well.

    I agree on FL but MI is different and with all those names off the ballot hopeless for being meaningful or fair really.

    They will count the vote and split the delegates somehow but it won;t determine the nomination. Frankly the way it was handlled it should not and I am firmly in Hillary’s camp.

    Just my opinion.

  42. I just came from realclearpolitics (I like their polls). I was surprised to see that Nebraska and Alaska don’t seem within the reach of Obama in the GE. Quite shocking, considering they are not part of Appalachia…

  43. Good morning Upstate,

    That’s pretty shocking. I wonder if he will still carry Indiana, Wyoming, Utah, Idaho, and South Carolina, Kansas, Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia, and North Dakota? What states will he carry besides Illinois, I wonder?

  44. You can hide behind all the quotes you want re: FL and MI, but that does not take away from the fact that innocent voters are being disenfranchised for the doings of their legislatures. You can go ahead and support institutionalized disenfranchisement all you want with quotes, but that doesn’t hide what your doing.

  45. North Montana and New Columbia.

  46. Thought you guys would enjoy this comment from BlueOregon:

    Yes, Portland showed those bigots in West Virginia, Pennsylvania and Ohio a thing or two. Portland is the best because we love Obama, and we are tolerant and progressive. Portland is irrelevant no more. Portland rocks!

  47. hlr: Portland may think they are the best, but what they need to understand is that most of the people in the “largest and bestest crowd ever” kayaked their way to Oregon from North Montana.

  48. hmmm… wonder if those Oregonians know about Obama’s vote for the Cheney energy bill?

    I’m thinking they wouldn’t like that too much.

  49. Bully Pulpit: There are dems to blame in BOTH states. But the people who don’t deserve any blame are the voters. They had no say in the matter but they dutifully voted all the same. Now, had Obama agreed back in March to revotes that the Clinton campaign supporters were going to pay for, then we wouldn’t be having this discussion. But Nooooo, Obama thought he could get away with stealing votes or cancelling them altogether. He hasn’t punished the Dems who acted stupidly. He has continued to punish the voters and deny them a say in the most important election of their lifetime. So, IMHO, he has forfeited any right to deny them a seat now. They HAVE to be counted in order for the nominee to have any legitimacy and because he waited so long, they should all be counted.

  50. Bully: It *has* to determine the nomination. That what voting is for: to determine outcomes. If Obama had agreed to a solution back in March, the impact would have been minimal. But by waiting until the end, and knowing that these votes must be included for nominee legitimacy, he has inadvertantly maximized their impact on the final outcome. Stupid, stupid, stupid.
    Yes, the whole thing was handled very badly.

  51. that does not take away from the fact that innocent voters are being disenfranchised for the doings of their legislatures. >>>

    I am in full agreement with that statement. That is why I am surprised MI did it after being warned not once but twice. I just lay the blame where I think it belongs.

    I’m not hiding behind anything I’m discussing MI honestly and rationally.

    “innocent voters are being disenfranchised for the doings of their legislatures”

    I agree.

  52. BostonBoomer @ 6:53 a.m.,

    Didn’t have time to go through aaaall the comments to see if you got an answer. I’ve been wondering the same thing about Joe Scarborough. It’s weird, they never mention his name. The one time Minka Pinhead talked about Joe it sounded like he was on vacation but I’m not certain she said that and then she said, “come back soon, we miss you.” BS, they’re lovin’ this Joe free zone to “ignore” Hillary and boost Obama. Non stop talk about Hagel for VP. Fuck ’em! Sorry guys, this is wearing on my good nature.

    Hey, who’s taking the bus to the DC rally on 5/31? We should organize a paaahty.

  53. SIgh — the only entity who can truly “disenfranchse innocent” voters is the DNC. Why? It’s the ultimate decision maker.

    Any other argument is a specious attempt to prop up the indefensible. Namely a democratic candidate seeking to win by suppressing the vote (and doing so when Bush v Gore is a living memory).

    Enough already.

  54. Folks get thee to Talk Left. Jeralyn has a fabulous article on Tom Hayden’s pathetic attempt to red-bait Hillary for her actions as a summer law clerk. As Jeralyn put it “Stupid Comparison #2: Equating the clients of a law school intern’s firm with the supporter of a politican who held a fundraiser and sat on boards with the politician.”

    Go see it at http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/5/19/24353/9198

  55. OT alert!

    Where in the world is litigatormom?

    With the graduation season upon us, I can’t escape lots of get together with the Adams err I mean my family, bunch of obnoxious O-zombies. Thinking about yesterday, I’m pretty sure I’ll end up strangling at least one my relatives.

    LGM, attorney for all Conflucians, has to be ready to get me out of there.

  56. River,

    to the extent that delegates are awarded they will help determine the nomination. It just appears they are not going to really change the picture unfortunately.

    Unfortunately the MI legislature consulted with Obama and Clinton about enfranchising their voters. Why in the world they did that is beyond me. It’s not up to the candidates to determine the legislatures actions. They lacked the resolve to move ahead with a plan no matter what the candidates wanted politically for the rules, voter roles, possible caucus, allowance of people that voted in the GOP primary etc..

    You would probably agree that Clinton should not have agreed to a revote in the form of a caucus. I agreee with that also. However if the legislature wanted to revote a caucus they should have voted to do so. If Clinton disagreed then the legislature remains at fault not Clinton who would obviously oppose the format..

    I agree the disenfranchisement is a travesty but I blame the legislature. Different opinion same outcome.

  57. WS,
    Those numbers look great. This morning the local news stated that Hillary was closing the gap. I hope Hillary crashes Barry’s party!
    Also, look at this recent exchange (from The Oregonian) that Barry had with an undecided Eugene voter: ‘”Mr. Obama, how do I know I can trust you?” asked Ron Spooner, an X-ray technician at Sacred Heart Medical Center. Obama walked over.
    ‘”That’s always a tough question,” the Democratic Illinois senator said. But without missing a beat, he suggested Spooner read one of his books, and look up his resume. “Look at what I’ve done over the last 20 years,” Obama suggested.’
    Barry, I’m still looking.

  58. New Math: 50=48=57 Where is Mornin’ Joe?

  59. Bully,

    I think your point of view is clear to all of us now. Most of us Conflucians disagree with you. Let it go, please…..

  60. MABlue: I am right down here in Spfld. Feel free to visit another Hillary supporter!

  61. Pat,
    How about: 50 – 2 = 57?

  62. lyn5,

    I’m surprised Barry didn’t tell the guy to “go to my website.” That’s all I ever heard from the Obots back when I was trying to find out if Barry stood for anything. I ended up answering the questions for myself.

    No, he doesn’t stand for anything except Barry.
    No, I can’t trust him.

  63. MABlue:
    “I’ll end up strangling at least one”

    look, we all do what we can to depress the vote….

    😮 )

    seriously, may I suggest everyone pop on over to PBS Bill Moyers to inveigle on this gender/race story he did a few days ago about how we can stop from strangling our nearest and dearests…

    My son is not for Hillary, but only tepidly- “but I thought Sicko said she took lobbyists’ money to kill healthcare?” typical underinformed kid…my hubby: koolaid drinking kos/crooks&liars lurker, but never researches or blogs stuff like I do, (thought I was nuts to try to draft Gore last year…),

    Watch it if you haven’t….I’m sure you will have something to say. Bill Moyers should surely be in the forefront of mediashill pushback.

  64. BTD has the new polls up with the heading: “Is a Funny Thing Happening on the Way to Obama’s Coronation?”


  65. lyn5: me like!

  66. Bully, The ability to enfranchise the voters lies in the hands of the DNC, not the legislature at this point. Actually, all of the actual votes *have* been counted. What hasn’t been awarded are the delegates. The reason the candidates were petitioned is because one of them *could* have gone to the rules and bylaws committee and asked that the rules be waived. The problem is that is would have disadvantaged one of them ever so slightly and in a tight race like this, every delegate counts. But had Obama done it in March, he would have gotten brownie points for being magnanaimous and that would have helped him and the party down the road.
    He didn’t so now he’s kinda screwed. No MI and FL, no vote from moi. And it has to count. Of course, he still might not get my vote but we have to let the party do the right thing.

  67. lyn5: Your math is better than mine!!

  68. BB,


  69. lyn5;

    Keep looking “sweetie”. There’s nuthin’.

    I asked my uncle who is a career prosecutor and BO supporter, what he would think if I was running for DA and he couldn’t fine anything about my legal acumen to judge me on?

    His answer was just some incoherent attempted blackmail (no pun intended) about how shameful it would be for me, should BO fail because one Black man (I) did not support him.

  70. May 31st should be interesting. If it ends up that the two states end up being disenfranchised all hell will break lose. How can he even hope to win either one after that. Those voters will turn their collective backs on him for sure. It will be 2000 all over again and if he is the nominee, it will appear as fraudulent as Bush with Florida. The DNC has to do the right thing in looking ahead to Nov.

    The bigger event will be McCain’s choice for VP. If he chooses someone who has a little savvy it may be just enough to pull him over home plate for those voters who are looking for a reason to go over to that side.

  71. BB: I saw BTD’s posting.

    I have noticed as I visited the internets today a certain lack of the sense of inevitability we have been witnessing every since Obama announced (and then retracted ) his nomination victory party last week. I don’t understand it given all the positive press given to the “mega gathering in Oregon” and talks of conservative VP.

    It may be wishful thinking (most likely) but I wonder what tomorrow will truly bring. Most likely it is just a lowering of expectations as the ones we have seen over and over this campaign.

  72. riverdaughter,

    you know I never thought of it this way, but, yes in a sense this is true :

    ” without that critical mass of Florida and Michigan, every vote from a state that went for Clinton doesn’t count.

    The DNC lowered the bar for the anti-Clinton candidate from 2210 delegates to 2025 by sitting on Florida and Michigan. It’s not just that Florida and Michigan have been disenfranchised, it’s ALL of the Clinton states including CA, NY, NJ, AZ, OH, TX, PA, IN, MA, NH, AR, NM, WV, TN, etc, etc.

    Who do I write to again?

  73. dot,

    Don’t forget RI. Everyone forgets poor little Rhode Island, but they did go big for Hillary.

  74. Guys, check it out. Great article from the New York magazine, Alex Castellano’s, repug strategist/adman/pundit, make some EXCELLENT points (sorry for the shouting but I don’t know how to italicize my text) including one we may have lost sight of – the repubs haven’t had any luck beating the Clintons. They’ve had at least four contests (2 for Bill, 2 for Hillary) that I know in which they cannot take them out. This is huge, not as big as the MAP, but very important and the superDs must be reminded of it. Other excellent points in the article, read.


  75. BB: Yes, don’t forget us in RI! We fought hard for Hillary here too.

    Pat J: Good point about McCain’s VP pick. This a.m. my husband heard that Huckabee has expressed interest in the slot. McC might pick up some conservative Repub votes with such a running-mate, but would jeopardize his chances at appealing to voters who want to Turndown Obama. Hopefully McC will choose someone more palatable to the latter group, and soon. But he’s probably going to wait it out a bit. As he said on SNL, “fight amongst yourselves.”

  76. Pat Johnson,@ 10:09

    VP talk turning to rethugs again…when are the zombies gunna wake up and realize that this was the only way the rethugs would win: run a compliant rethug-lite puppet with their man behind him in VP slot, one gunshot away from the presidency.

  77. Bully,

    No offense, I have a sinus headache at the moment and I get a little tired of reading the same arguments again and again. Sorry…

  78. lyn5, I think momentum is swinging her way in Oregon! Lets hope she closes the gap some more in Oregon and has WV margins in KY.

  79. BB, you guys did the same things to yourself with NC and IN. We actually do know what is going to happen tomorrow. KY is going to be a blowout and OR is going to be a low teens BO win. Variance can make the polls say funny things.

  80. dotcommodity: I am just thinking in terms of November should Mr. High and Mighty manage to steal the nomination. A lot of voters, dems and indies, may consider the VP choice in this respect rather than the top of the ticket as a reason to completely switch sides. If the tenor continues regarding an Obama nomination, those voters who may say they will hold their nose and vote for him may consider the GOP running mate as their reason to vote McCain. I doubt if Huckabee would be a strong enough incentive but someone who would make McCain look good. I know for myself I could not vote for either McCain or Obama but there will be votes who may be looking for a decent reason to defect altogether.

  81. MABlue: I’ll trust you!

  82. Elixir,@ 10:18 am

    heres another great takeout from that article:

    “To demonstrate strength, he will need to stand up and speak truth to power, poke his finger in the Democratic Establishment’s eye. ”

    heh. Like he hasn’t poked his finger in our eyes yet?

    “Example: Marion Barry, D.C.’s former crack mayor, is now supporting vouchers for D.C. schoolchildren, in opposition to education unions and much of the Dem Party Establishment.

    Obama should join him. !!!!!!!!!! ??????

    The Dem Establishment better start looking around to see which one of them he’s going to throw under the bus as soon as the Denver convention is over and he takes the bus out of town.”

    First they came for the women, and I didn’t care because I wasn’t a woman…
    then they came for the seniors and I didn’t care because…
    then they came for the “bitter clingers”, and I didn’t care because….
    then they came for the Hipanics, and I didn’t care because…

    Only when they come for you DNC are you going to wake UP!

    This is a banana Republic. This has been a rightwing coup.

  83. Vile piece in the NYT today that attempts to push Clinton’s candidacy under the bus.

    Don’t fall for it.

  84. Ryan,

    I’m not sure what you are talking about. I’m not expecting Hillary to win Oregon. I just think Barry looks kinda silly putting himself out there on that limb by announcing he is “the nominee” before a single delegate has voted. That limb may not be as strong as he thinks.

  85. dot,

    Can’t you just seem him at the convention with Chuck Hagel by his side as VP? How is that going to go over with the Party regulars? That would be a coup! Bush lite at the to of the ticket and right wing nut in the number two spot. Is he trying to beat McCain with Republican votes?

  86. BB, Don’t listen to Ryan. He has nothing better to do than visit blogs of Hillary supporters. Couldn’t he be doing something more productive for his candidate?

  87. BO would have to kiss a lot of ass (and I have a big one) to secure my vote in November.
    Unless the DNC stops gaming the system and seats Michigan and Florida, there is no way that I’ll vote for Dean and Brazile’s golden boy.
    That’s final.
    PS to the sweeties. My use of boy in this context is not racial. “Golden boy” is a well know soubriquet for an up and coming prizefighter of great promise.

  88. Yeah, I guess I was reading too much into the talkleft article or what you thought of it. There is no doubt BO announcement of nominee status holds some risks. To be perfectly honest I think waiting until the convention is not inherently necessary but a 5/20 announcement is too soon. He should probably wait until 6/3 at least so FL/MI can be settled and the last states have had their chance to vote. I kind of have a feeling he is not going to announce victory tomorrow but if he does I expect him to roll out all of his major (probably some we do not know of yet) supporters.

  89. dot, what is it with the Obamas and their fixation with poking and eviscerating eyes?

  90. I’m guessing that if by the time of the Republican convention it looks like Obama is a sure thing, McCain is going to put a woman on his ticket. If it looks like it’s going to be Hillary, then he’ll pick a conservative guy to get him the far right.

  91. I saw this video on No Quarter. Excellent work. My compliments to the producers.

  92. I would be hard pressed to think of any woman on the Repub side who would attract voters. Can’t think of one. Kaye Bailey Hutchison is the only name that comes to mind but he really would gain nothing with her on the ticket since Tx is probably a state he will win on his own. I would be surprised if he chose Crist from FL because although he is a popular governor there is talk that Crist is gay. Romney has the star power but it will more than likely either be a nominee from a toss up state or a military name. McCain is holding out until this nomination is sealed because his strategy will be built around who the Dems choose as a nominee.

  93. I’m guessing that McCain goes with Mike Bloomberg. It would be a deadly combo. A lot of NYC Dems voted for Bloomberg, he’s got more money than God and he was a former Dem.

  94. MCain should pick Colin Powell or Christie Todd Whitman if Obama is the nominee.

  95. RD:

    McCain can not go w/ Bloomberg because of the visual. They are both 2 short guys. It could be “The dwarfs tickets”.

    I think McCain will go for someone who can keep conservatives happy without being unpalatable to the rest of us.

  96. Thanks, rd, I completely forgot about Whitman. Didn’t she stand up to Bush on the mishandling of environmental issues? That would offer him a strong lead both with women and environmentalists. Powell, not so much. He has that UN speech hanging around his neck. All the Dems need to do is keep trotting that one out over and over to make the point about the war.

    Whoever it is has to have the “star” quality to convince the Indies and the wavering Dems to climb onboard. McCain is beginning to look kind of old lately.

  97. Obama goes meta on crowning himself 5/20. Meta-leadership from a meta-leader…

  98. I think the point he will be making is that he pledged delegate majority has been reached (sans the disenfranchised ) which will provide the media with the necessary inevitability meme in combination with new “triggered” superdelegtes.

    I can’t recall how many SD have pledged to go with the pledged delegate winner but i think its a dozen or so on record. How many off record there are is a mysytery but its unlikely to be zero. Thus Tues could trigger the “pelosi cartel” or whatever it is called to go Obama right away.

    His plan appears to be to have the media do the work after enough “pelosi rule” SDs validate on the pledged delegate metric. Then the meme will switch to “even with FL and MI included she would have to get 350% of all remaining…”.

    The media appears ready to play along after getting another campaign talking points “math” memo. Obama will attempt to be magnanimous toward Hillary and also attempt to be a “seating FL and MI champion” as the media repeatedly crowns him the winner in the wake of several new SDs.

    What then remains is a magnanimous “gesture” from his rules supporters on MI and FL.

    Anyway that’s what I smell cooking although it could backfire by claiming anything at all with MI and FL still unresolved.

    But if Pelosi and her “pledged delegate winner” camp endorses soon after oregon and Kentucky (which seems possible if not likely) that will steal most of the media oxygen from the room with respect to May 31.
    The media will turn May 31 into some sort of appeasing (i mean magnanimous) formality for rouge states so as to not offend the innocent voters.

    Obama probably wanted clinton to stay in until the drubbingss in WV and KY were done. Even McCain avoided losing to withdrawn candidates. But afterwards the media will proclaim post KY as the best time for Clinton to withdraw “a winner.”

    Please compare to actual media handling.

    and yes I have become cynical

  99. Bloomberg appears to be more involved with the Dems. He used to be one. And after defecting from the Repugs I am not sure how much cache he has left with them. I could be wrong, we never thought Edwards would back Obama and look what happened. What is really ironic about this is if Bloomberg should consider VP all those upper level, suburban voters now backing Obama would probably flock to a McCain/Bloomberg ticket since their primary interest is in making money and they respect Bloomberg’s ability to do so. That would leave the Precious with the AAs and the teenage block. Good luck with that!

  100. Bully,

    I’m an optimist. And it’s a lot more fun than being a pessimist. There’s really no use anticipating bad things. Actually though, I’m not really convinced you are a Clinton supporter.

  101. My debate points for the last two months when I post at sites where the discussion turns to MI/FL, superdelegates, primaries or caucuses has been and WILL CONTINUE TO BE: The Dems primary process has been so tainted since at least December 17 (when Constance Howard was the first superdelegate to publicly declare for Obama), that THERE IS NO VALID WAY to determine “the will of the people” (as if the DNC cares about the will of the people, I am just saying….)

    The superdelegates should be given a gag order (allowable under the rules of a private organization such as the DNC) and released from all commitments to pay any attention to any previous results, whatsoever. They should also have to refund all monies donated to their campaigns by either Clinton or Obama.

    They should then be allowed to vote in privacy and the outcome of that vote should be the guiding principle for the determination of the nominee for president.

    We can argue the popular vote, sure, but quite frankly, it is as tainted as the caucuses have been. The whole process to this point is tainted, so the end game needs to be as untainted as possible. That is my argument at this point, and I am sticking to it.

  102. Bully: One of the reasons we don’t watch MSM news is because they make a habit of shoving the “Obama is inevitable” meme down our throats all the time and they aren’t listening to the voters. Now, the closeness of the race this year in no way shape or form says that he has a straight shot to the nomination. I am convinced that she can win this and from Friday’s teleconference, she ain’t going anywhere, especially if she wins the popular vote. There are plenty of good arguments for making her the nominee over him that have nothing to do with the ridiculous way pledged delegates were awarded. It’s still three months to Denver.
    Ok, now let’s drop it. The next long diatribe on MI and FL gets deleted.

  103. Portland showed those bigots in West Virginia, [..] and we are tolerant and progressive.

    I don’t think ‘tolerant’ means what he thinks it means? Unless this is a joke?

  104. Many of us have been boycotting MSNBC/NBC for sometime. But for those that continue to drop in Please remember NOT to tune in MSNBC/NBC, even to take a peek, Tuesday and Tuesday night. This is a protest against their bias & sexism. PLEASE SPREAD THE WORD, THIS WILL MAKE AN IMPACT EVEN IF THEY DON’T ADMIT IT!

  105. riverdaughter, BB, katie


    Use if you want.

  106. they won;t need Bloomberg for FL with Obama at the top and the GOP is unlikley to go with a mormon or a jewish guy from NYC as VP in my opinion.

    Bloomberg is quite unknown to the bulk of the country. Like Romney the biggest thing the GOP electorate base (codeword) will identify him with at first is his religion.

    They feed this monster within their party. Not until Romney did they really see how deep it runs.

  107. Judy is 100% correct. I will tune into CNN only because I love the John King election board. He breaks it down by precincts and demographics. When Donna’s big fat face is shown I just put it on mute. It not only controls my blood pressure but saves me from throwing something at the screen.

  108. Ohio — I especially like the one that builds on the SNOB message. !!

  109. I thought of an interesting McCain running mate… but I think she is too old for him: Elizabeth Dole.

    She is nationally known already and made an attempt at the primary repub nom in 2000 – but she was born in 1936, so I think that makes her even older than McCain. Wikipedia is my friend! I still think she could be interesting as a vp running mate – she certainly had more appeal than her husband and conservatives like her.

  110. Just went to Hillary’s website. Signed the petition to count the MI and FL votes and contributed a ten spot.

    I feel good 😉



  111. Judy, it’ll be tough because I always love to look at the faces on Chris Matthews and Keith Olbermann when Hillary has a blow-out win.
    But I’m in.

  112. jjm:

    Elizabeth Dole?

    She’s a horrible candidate and her husband made ads for Viagra. You know how repulsed Republican by anything with “sexual” connotation. (I still don’t know how Santorum got a bazillion kids.)

  113. Alegre has a feature over at MyDD written by one of the 9/11 widows which underscores Hillary’s viabilty and Obama’s shortcomings. Great read.

    Elizabeth Dole would not appeal to most voters. She is about McCain’s age and I cannot see what she would bring to the ticket. Christie Whitman would serve a better purpose overall: female, from a northern state, environmental service, middle aged, former governor. More pluses with her.

  114. Speaking of FL, Obama will be in my city, Tampa FL, at the St. pete Times Forum this coming Wednesday.

    News says tickets are sold out & seems he’s going to do another big Portland type rally.

    He’s trying to make nicey-poo with the states he disenfranchised AND STILL WON’T COUNT THEIR VOTES.

  115. Oh, if you haven’t seen me before, I am a strong Hillary support and am intensely against the MSM and all associated hoopla couched in sexist, ha ha funny., comments.

  116. Oh, I forgot about her. I can’t remember, but it seems like she is more moderate (than some conservatives like) on women’s rights.

  117. KB Hutchinson is an excellent politician and would be a great choice for McCain.

    Ok, I am over at blue oregon fighting the good fight, but it’s all Hill’s supporters are racist, and she’s a war monger type stuff.

  118. Ok – I admit the Dole idea wasn’t very thought out…

    But you know, viagra (& meds for same) seems to be every other commercial on the MSMs. Marketing demographics seem to influence who gets positive press.

  119. There sure are a lot of new Obama supporters showing up at Talk Left recently. BTD just slapped one down pretty good. LOL. I asked one of them if he/she had been sent by the O-man to be “nice” to Clinton supporters, but got no answer.

  120. SO utterly impressed by your work and determination. DO you ever sleep? We just started up a site entitled Democrats Against Obama and we love to link your site, but thought I would do the right thing and ask first. Don’t want to assume because….well, you know the rest.

    Anyone can send an email and have their name listed as a Democrat Against Obama. Site wil get larger, just started. But would love to be able to link you, riverdaughter. Read the blog every day.

    NObama. Ever.

  121. Actually though, I’m not really convinced you are a Clinton supporter.>>

    give me instructions on posting a jpg here and I think I can prove it to you with the check and my digital camera.

    I read a post a while back on how the media would portray the PA debate. It turned out quite differently but I was laughing aloud with the tongue in cheek portrayals of the pro-obama media predictions here.

    I’m not mentioning the two as yet to be seated states again but I was implying how the media will portray post Tuesday and whatever Obama will try to claim.

    I confess to watching more MSM than I should and to having acquired a bit of pessimism in the process. Of course a surpising result in Oregon would make that pessimism inducing pastime more worth it.

  122. Keri: Feel free to link. We never ask permission. 😉
    I’ll check out your site later.

  123. Expectations: What does Obama have to do, to win OR? I’d say 15, since the mailing in system in system favors the early leader.

  124. Obama’s chances of winning Oregon had him at one time with an almost 20 point lead. It appears that lead may be narrowing and what that indicates is that the longer this race goes on the more dissatisfaction with his candidacy is beginning to surface. Even if she only cuts that 20 point lead in half, she comes out the winner because it is clearly underscoring a shift. I am looking to see her narrow that down to about an 8 point difference. The polls have been wildly exaggerated as we have seen.

  125. Lambert,

    Obama was up 20 just days ago. I’d say anything below 15 is a disaster of epic proportions and he should get out of the race.

  126. Anyone from the Boston area going to the DNC rally on the 30th-31st that RD linked to in the post?

    I think there are a fair number of Massachusettsians here and at Lambert’s place. If anyone is interested, maybe we could share a bus, or charter a bus!?

  127. What is amazing to me is that “they still don’t get it” out there. The anger and resentment has yet to penetrate the Obama supporters. It is one thing to come into this blog and attempt to make an argument (specious as it may be) but they continue to spew their bile in other blogs in answer to any critique of their “savior”. Perhaps I am biased but I noted that most of the Hillary supporters attempt to make a point in their support and refrain from personal insults to a larger degree. But the Obama supporters just attack and demean both the candidate and the poster. Much like schoolyard taunts. Senseless. They just don’t get it.

  128. Libby Dole?

    Hmmmmm, $1200 for an inaugural ballgown.

    $4800 – maximum personal donation.

    A female GOP vice-president who fellated LBJ? Priceless.

    LOL – I’m so glad I get to recycle that joke.

    Yes, by all means, Libby Dole. She wouldn’t do squat for the ticket but we’d get to tell some great stories about her. That girl has dished out a serious amount of nookie in her lifetime to widely disparate partners.

  129. PatJ: My favorite example is that the OFB act like a clueless guy whose wife/girlfriend left him and isn’t coming back.

    He tells his buddies “She’ll be back when she realizes how good she had it.”

    By November we made need a restraining order.

  130. Oops “may need”

  131. Posted: Monday, 19 May 2008 11:21AM

    It’s A Turndown Day

    Steve Corbett Reporting

    Monday, May 19, 2008

    “Operation Turndown” has no headquarters or mailing address. We offer no coffee mugs, bumper stickers or T-shirts for sale. You cannot contribute cash or deduct your investment in tomorrow from you federal income tax.

    But “Operation Turndown” is no mirage.

    The voice of a movement that got underway last week on WILK News Radio belongs to all Democrats who refuse to do as we’re told and vote for Barack Obama if he receives the party nomination for president.

    If Obama’s the chosen one, we’re turning him down.

    Count us out.

    Countless Democrats, men and women alike, have come to the realization that Hillary Clinton is the best candidate to receive the party’s nomination. The senator from New York is the strongest Democrat to face Republican John McCain and his well-oiled war machine in November.

    But too many good old boy bosses don’t see it that way. They expect loyal party followers to do as they’re told. They expect the mostly women who voice outrage at the abuse leveled at Hillary by mostly male political bosses and mostly male media motor mouths to just shut up and vote.

    Women have betrayed Hillary as well.

    A whole new generation of young women who have no sense of the sacrifice that took place before they were out of diapers have signed on to the anti-Hillary assault as well. Sadly, even some of them sneer at the sexist portrayals of this woman who sacrificed for them and did her best despite harsh odds to bring equity to the workplace, the home and the country.

    Last Friday women from all over the nation called “Corbett” to share their anger, their frustration and their commitment to fight absurd accusations hurled by some Obama supporters that they’re racist if they do not vote for Obama.

    They called to enlist in the movement to stand on the very principles that sent them into the streets as organizers and activists for Democrats in election after election, year after year after year.

    Now, like Hillary, they, too, feel abused.

    And they’ve had enough.

    If Democratic bosses believe they can win in November without Hillary, they have to do it without countless Hillary supporters who have made the Democratic Party the true party of change it is today.

    This is dangerous territory for bosses who usually expect women to do as they’re told. After all, many women have been content in the past to follow their dream that one day their turn would come. Their turn has come. It’s here and the moment is long overdue. Hillary is their one-and-only Democrat.

    Hillary is my Democrat, too. I’m with her to the end. If she wins the nomination, she wins the White House. If party bosses don’t agree, they’re on their own.

    When I left the station last Friday night, I had received well over 200 deeply personal and well-thought-out emails. I received calls on the air from all over the country and calls off the air from as far away as New Delhi, India. The mostly women callers wanted to know how to join Operation Turndown. They wanted to know where they could contribute. They wanted to know how to spread the word that we will turn down Obama.

    Some powerful people even suggested that I head up a national movement with a web site and an address and appearances all over the country. But although an organized and unified voice that Democratic Party bosses ignore is very much needed, I must humbly decline.

    I’m just a news talk radio guy from Scranton. I’ll continue to do what I do as best as I can for as long as I can. But I hope that somebody among the many clear, strong voices of the mostly women whom I heard last week picks up the “Operation Turndown” banner and raises it for the whole world to see.

    You have my blessing and my support.

    Organized or not, “Operation Turndown” lives in the heart of anyone who sees this elegant political hustle for what it is – a dangerous maneuver orchestrated by the party elite to take care of themselves at everybody else’s expense. Operation Turndown will continue in every town and every city where women are taken for granted.

    Nowadays that still means everywhere.

    The wisest Democrats know exactly what I mean.

    Those who don’t get it are in for a big surprise.

    Like the 60s radio song says, “It’s a turndown day.”

    And I dig it.

  132. Lori: No kidding? I am stunned to hear this. I thought she was just the typical sweet little ole Southern belle and butter wouldn’t melt in her mouth. Wow.

  133. Even the international press is now writing about BO’s plans to crown himself tomorrow.

    From Der Spiegel:

    “Obama will sich am Dienstag zum Sieger erklären” (Obama wants to declare himself the winner on Tuesday)

    From Le Monde:

    “Barack Obama prêt à être investi par les démocrates” (Obama ready to be crowned par Democrats)

    Le candidat démocrate à la présidentielle américaine Barack Obama s’apprête à annoncer mardi 20 mai sa victoire contre sa rivale Hillary Clinton pour obtenir l’investiture démocrate, a-t-il dit samedi soir au cours d’une réunion de levée de fonds dans l’Oregon.

    (Obama told a groupe of fundraisers in OR that he is going to declare victory in the fight for the nomination on Tuesday)

    I think this guy and the thugs running his campaign are trying to short-circuit the whole process. With the help of the media, they have created the narrative of Obama’s inevitability due to his “complete” victory in the primaries.

  134. myiq2xu: Or: “Just because I lost my job, and forgot where I left the car, and never pick up my socks, and my girlfriend needs another shot of Botox, and can never remember your birthday, does not mean I don’t love you!!”

  135. Hi All,

    I’m IndyRobin and I made the “Fractured FairyTales” video with GeekLove. Could ya help send it out and keep it alive by going to youtube and marking it as you fave and LEAVING a comment?

    Riverdaughter, you have my respect for just who you are as a person and all you do to help Hillary. Our last video “Mad as Hell” had over 168K hits because of eveeryones support. PLEASE help our new video get as much attention.


  136. Pat,

    LBJ named her Sugar Lips. Criminey. He had a room in his Senate office that was known as the “nookie room”. As president he bragged he got more nookie by accident than Kennedy got on purpose.

    I’ve heard other tales about her as well. She was notorious and genuinely well-liked on the hill. But she was a girl who saw a serious amount of action. Instilled awe in the lesser men of Capital Hill.

    I think we should all vote for her if she promises us a tell all which is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

  137. Indy Robin,

    Fantastic Work! Congratulations!

  138. IndyRobin, I LOVED YOUR VIDEO!!

    And I also loved “Mad as Hell!”

    Keep them coming!

    Also, OR polls from some university, I forgot:

    Obama – 45%
    Clinton -41%

    41%!!!!!!!! She’s only under by 4%!

    BTW: 14% either refused to say or were still undecided.

  139. Oh Lord, those people over at Blue Oregon are angry and just hateful.

  140. Just lovely. After Hillary’s historic 41 point win in WV, Byrd is endorsing Obama. Boy, this just gets better and better.

  141. Lori and SM, on May 19th, 2008 at 12:50 pm Said:
    IndyRobin, I LOVED YOUR VIDEO!!

    Thanks so much. If ya all could remind people to GO to Youtube and mark as fav it will be a BIG HELP. If not, the vid will die 😦

    Anthing for HILLARY

  142. Please go over to the Daily Howler and read today’s posting by Bob Somerby. Truly amazing.

  143. @Melanie: Really?! What a kick to the shins.

  144. Yes, it is over at Politico. WTH?

  145. Boy, Melanie, you have moxie to engage those Obamas at Blue Oregon!

  146. I am new on your site, but not for long.

    I just sent a letter to Gov Strickland and Renkle regarding their being a choice VP for Obama

    I told them he needs to be vetter and is being investigated in the direct involment to the murder of a gay man.

    I just think that if they decided Hillary was so bad for staying with Bill. They needed to vet his sexual history and drug usuage.

    Information on this story will be in the globe magazine but he interviewed the outside detective placed on this case. This is apparently being covered up by the news media and papers (surprise surprise)

    So I am leaving this message as I know I may now be in trouble but I can’t let this set this way

  147. good work river person…

    that was fun reading….

  148. Expect no help from establishment Democrats.

    We’re gonna have to do this ourselves.

  149. Pat Johnson,

    You beat me the recommendation.

    Bob Somerby’s post today is another magnum opus. It’s nearly impossible to excerpt because it’s so great.

    It’s also a little sad b/c some lone blogger has been doing the job MSM journalist were supposed to do, but chose not to.

  150. myiq,

    Why can’t I comment on Corrente if I don’t have a URL? What’s up with that?

  151. By November we made need a restraining order.

    Get off of my lawn, ‘bot!

  152. Great idea. I registered as a Democrat for Bill Clinton back in 92; I may just un-register because of Hillary Clinton in 08!

  153. Murphy, BB, Mablue, et al… I’m from Boston, too, and would be willing to share to hire a bus to go to that 31st DC FDR rally…

  154. MABlue: I am a devoted fan of the Daily Howler. He parses the media to perfection. I know that he is a close friend of Al Gore and I believe the treatment that Gore received back in 2000 led him to create this blog and help educate us on how poorly the media does its job. My disappointment with Gore and his advisers back then is that they did not petition a complete statewide recount rather than settling on just 4 counties. Had he done that I believe the outcome would have been different. At any rate he is at least pointing out the media’s refusal to seriously vet Obama either through laziness or just plain indifference to the facts.

    As a sidenote: I am deeply confused about Sen Byrd’s announcement following the WVa primaries. Makes little sense.

  155. Folks, I would be cautious about giving out your email address to a site that’s set up for harvesting.

    At the end of the day, your vote is your private business.

    Sorry, Keri — I just call them as I see them. Don’t mean to offend if your intentions are good, but it could just be the BO campaign.

  156. Somerby started his blog in 1998, long before anybody heard the word “blog.”

  157. Pat Johnson;

    You know who ran Al Gore’s campaign, don’t you?

  158. MABlue,

    Just use the riverdaughter URL. It doesn’t matter what you put in there.

  159. IndyRobin, I’ll do the best I can to spread the word!

    You know what, I dare be audacious and would like to make a suggestion:

    Being an FL voter myself, I’d love to see a video showing what the DNC is doing to Hillary by not counting all the votes is EXACTLY what the GOP did to Al Gore in 2000.

    It can’t be called the “Democratic” party if they are not acting “Democratic.”

    Keep up the great videos & it’s ain’t over till the lady in the pantsuit says it’s over!

  160. MABlue: Wild guessing here – Axelrod? I know Donna B was one of his advisers. I really liked her then. Either I was totally delusional or she has changed. She aspires to be another Barbara Jordan (one of my real heroines who knew how to deliver a powerful speech) but she never will achieve Barbara’s status. That woman was 100% brilliant.

  161. […] Monday: You say you want a Revolution (by riverdaughter at The Confluence) The maddening thing about Florida and Michigan is that the DNC has been sitting on these two states all primary season, deliberately withholding their critical mass so that Barack Obama’s delegate count looks inflated. All season long, it has appeared that he was ahead. This was by design. It gave his campaign the advantage of looking like an unstoppable force of nature and his supporters a million different ways of talking about the math, not the map. But it *is* the MAP, not the math that counts here. Because without that critical mass of Florida and Michigan, every other vote from a state that went for Clinton doesn’t count… It’s just one more insult to voters in a party where the primary process is more important than the people and where gaming the system leads to a predetermined outcome. […]

  162. We have the Obama campaign slogan:

    “It’s a new coalition, sweetie!”

    (From the Adventures of Waffleman and Fan Boi, the fauxgressive duo)

  163. Donna Brazile-nut as a new Barbara Jordan?


  164. Pat Johnson: on May 19th, 2008 at 1:20 pm

    As a sidenote: I am deeply confused about Sen Byrd’s announcement following the WVa primaries. Makes little sense….

    Byrd is a coal fan through and through. And through.
    Obama panders on coal when he thinks we’re not looking:

    And he was quite good on resisting the warpath (they don’t realize that good clean energy policy like Hillary’s precludes the need to rely on oil)

    MABlue: must read DailyHowler thanks!

  165. RD. I am mad. Seriously. What is making me the maddest is the feminist mess up. I’m seeing that the movement isn’t cohesive. The minute I saw these two together I just thought oh no. Because of the feminist/black vote split. Not fair. But, what you have said about Michigan and Florida…this reminds me of those hanging chads. Remember those? Something is wrong, or rigged.

    I already saw two examples of electioneering inside the polling places as well. This is without a doubt the most infuriating election I’ve ever seen. I’m tempted to go to Denver myself to see what those Recreate 68 people think they are up to. I know one thing though, I have nothing but respect for Hillary Clinton. What she has suffered through? All of us have watched. Latinos and Asians will be going McCain, that’s a given. I will blog about that and find examples. Why I will do this is because I’m for Hillary. we will be very lost as a country if she doesn’t get in. NQ shows the scary parts of that. It’s the associations. None of us are going to get over that, or Wright.

    Immigrant Latinos aren’t feminists yet. Black feminists in our demographic are Afrocentric. Asian women have a different culture than ours, less feminism. So I think Hillary needs to play hardball about what is going to happen. The more I read my favorite blogs, the madder I get, but I’m hoping at least Oregon feminists get it.

    I think we are many more than we know. Huge parts of the Democratic Party. And I have no respect for the women in the blogosphere who have hurt our “sister” Hillary. I will not support them, ever.

    I’m just glad you are all out here, and RD, you are one of the most incredible examples of a feminist I’ve ever seen. You deserve a medal.

    signing off tossing virtual flowers your way—

  166. At MenforHillary.org (www.HillaryNowObamaLater.org), I am calling for much more than just the validation of MI/FL primaries.

    This Democratic primary process, consisting of superdelegate bullying, dubious caucus results, the Michigan and Florida disenfranchisement and the non-timely solution to that disenfranchisement, is a shambles. The process is so tainted that it is impossible to come to a valid conclusion about the “will of the people.”

    Since the process is so tainted at this point, the end game of the process needs to be as untainted as reasonably possible. My vision includes:

    (1) The superdelegates should be given a gag order (allowable under the rules of a private organization such as the DNC) and released from all commitments to pay any attention to any previous results, whatsoever.

    (2) Superdelegates should be required to refund all monies donated to their campaigns by either Clinton or Obama and receive no promises of contributions or further contributions until after the Democratic convention, or, otherwise lose their right to vote.

    (3) Superdelegates should then be allowed to vote sometime around the end of June in privacy and the outcome of that vote should be the guiding principle for the determination of the nominee for president.

    In my opinion, such a process would NOT undo all the damage to democracy that has taken place, but given that damage to date, I can live with the superdelegates getting a democratic, private vote, with minimal influence from previous results or money. It won’t make me return to the Democratic party, because it is way too late for that, but it would be a way for the DNC to restore some credibility to the party.

  167. Riverdaughter, thank you again for being able to come to a place I am welcome.

    However, I feel myself getting tired of the endless phone calls. They treat you rudely at the DNC if you call and they do not return calls. You cannot watch the news, they say it is over. I am a single mom who works two jobs, to finish putting two kids through college. But, I have found a way to send Hillary $10 a week. Not much, but by God I find a way every week to do it. I have re-registered, sent my shredded card in and for the first time in my life, I don’t have a clue, unless, Hillary is on the ballot, what I will do in November. I am frustrated, agitated, and angry as hell.

    I have been called every name in the book, not because, I didn’t like Obama. In May of last year, I too had partaken of the Kool-Aid. But, when I started making calls, I heard exactly what Hillary said last week and was blasted for, certain people will not vote Obama, They just won’t. So I stepped back, looked again, did some research and realized that the great speech he gave was merely that, a great speech. I forgave myself for the brain fart and have been a dedicated Hillary supporter since.

    So I ask, who is going to this rally on May 31st, and who wants to go, because I am ready to take a stand.

  168. […] this at RiverDaughter this morning. Just a little encouragement for any of you that need it! One other thing: Some of […]

  169. Kim: I’m going to try to go. I don’t know the answer to the frustration but you’ve registered your feelings, as have many others and I think they *have* taken notice. The problem is, will they take it seriously or will they just up the psychological warfare to make us feel guilty? We have to be prepared for that. It isn’t our responsibility to unify the party. It’s their job to make us want to vote for them and so far, we don’t.
    Hang in there. Things are starting to happen.

  170. Some of our group are currently trying to make acommodations to be there but we would like as much info as possible and permission to post this link on our website. What is a bus captain? What about signs? Tell us everything any hotel suggestions we will be coming from Michigan. Also to let everyone know we are working on a super surprise that all of us who feel so voiceless can have our say in a very surprising way. We will keep you posted on that. For Obama truths please visit our site http://www.unheardamericanvoices.com We look forward to any information you can provide.
    Thank you

  171. Hey Riverdaughter,

    It’s IndyRobin who made the video you have on your front page. I need to talk to you about a project. How can I get in touch. Can’t go into it on-line.

  172. […] To register for the “Count Our Votes Rally” in Washington, DC on May 31st, check out information posted at “The Confluence”https://riverdaughter.wordpress.com/20… […]

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