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The Map to Denver: It’s the Map, Not the Math


Yesterday I had the honor of talking with Senator Hillary Clinton on a conference call of Hillary Bloggers. The invitation alone was an incredible honor but, I also got “my hand up” in time for me to ask a question. Taylor Marsh recorded the entire conversation and posted a link on her site. Someone at TalkLeft suggested that listening to this recording should be required for every Hillary supporter. After listening you will come away from the conversation uplifted by the fact that Hillary Clinton is in this race to win, that she has no intention of quiting before the convention and that she is totally and deeply committed to seeing that the Florida and Michigan Delegations are seated with full voting rights.

WWTSBQ? — not this summer.

It’s the Map, not the Math

The meat of the conversation is that Hillary sees a clear path to the nomination. She said that the campaign had “acknowledgment” that Hillary is ahead in the popular vote. And (she said) she expects to be ahead on the popular vote after the last primary on June 3rd.

In addition to that since our big win in West Virginia, she has won states totaling 300 electoral votes while Barack has won states with 217 electoral votes. AND she has far fewer deep red states in her list.

The Map includes Florida and Michigan

Again and again the conversation came back to the Florida and Michigan issue. She said that it was not only ironic but actually inexplicable that the Democratic Party would have a deeper commitment to rules than Democracy.

And it’s clear this issue resonates with Hillary Bloggers. Both Armando (Big Tent Democrat) and Allegre asked about it in their questions.  Armando has been openly worried about this issue for nearly a year; hearing him express that concern directly to The Candidate was one of the highlights of the conversation.  But Allegre nearly brought the house down when she told Hillary that she’ll be bringing her children to the May 31st DNC Rules meeting.  Allegre’s deep personal commitment is felt by all of us it wonderful to hear as she gave Hillary a direct illustration of how and why she is in this campaign.

Please, visit Taylor Marsh and listen for yourself.  I know that you’ll find yourself energized and empowered — and convinced that Hillary Clinton will win the Democratic Presidential Nomination.

48 Responses

  1. Typo alert!


    “It’s the map, not the math

  2. Can’t you just see Obama jumping in front of you as you wait in line at the supermarket. “Uh, um, Sweetie, I only have a few items and I’m in an awful rush. Uh, um, you don’t mind do you, Sweetie?”
    Clinton has to win the nomination. It’s our only chance to win against St. John-Johnny Mac-The Maverick on the Straight Talk Express-McCain in November.
    Should the DNC hand the nom over to Barak Obama, the MSCM won’t turn on him all at once, that would be just too obvious. It’ll be a slow, drip, drip as more Reverend Wright clips and God knows what else come magically to light.

  3. Thank, MABlue — I think I got it. (edited because I’m NOT a good typist)

  4. Katiebird, the podcast was great! It really cheered me up, particularly because Hillary was so upbeat, focused, and committed to keep going until the final bell. I was also heartened by the fact that she doesn’t let the misogyny and hate get to her, but just walks right by it. I had to laugh when she said all the attention was flattering in a backward sort of way.

    It was also great to hear your voice and that of others that I read every day, and to especially hear the appreciation and regard that Hillary has for all of you. That speaks volumes, as I doubt that Obama even acknowledges the legion of bloggers who are totally in the tank for him.

  5. katie, thanks for the great post. I am saving the audio to listen to later when it is quieter around here. I’m so proud of you that you got to ask a question.

    (say a little doggie prayer for me. After good news last week, his blood count is dropping again and I’m really depressed.)

  6. {{tabbycat}} Give him lots of love and a special hug from me. Keep him close to your heart (literally) And he’ll be with you forever. I still feel Digby on my chest sometimes.

  7. Kbird, BB, ronk, Litigatormom or Garychapelhill: I’m going to a double header at the local ballpark with the BFF in about an hour. That’s where we sit in the stands and get wasted on Sam Adams and hotdogs while we shoot the breeze and watch other similarly wasted people do embarrassing things between innings. A good time is had by all.
    Annyways, I have a Cocktail Party scheduled to go off at 6:54pm but I won’t be there to host it. Could one of you fine people do it? I’d be much obliged.

  8. Absolutely! I’m going to be making calls to Oregon for a while. But, I should be around most of the evening.

    Have a great time. And say Hi to the BFF for me.

  9. The Hillary conference call was agonizingly too short. I had my hand up but she had to leave before I could ask a question. I’m going to have to try harder to ask one at a regular conference call with Howard Wolfson and Phil Singer. I’m sure I can do a better job than Andrea Mitchell.

  10. Good luck, tabbycat. It hurts when our pets are sick and we don’t know how to make them better.
    Maybe, next week will bring good news again. I hope so.

  11. I know you can do better than Andrea RD.

    Thanks katie. I’m doing that.

  12. Thank you SweetieSue. I’ve lost my dad and a brother so I should have some perspective here, but I don’t.

    Have you guys read that Obama is naming himself nominee Tuesday night in IOWA? Not Oregon. What’s he up to?

  13. (sigh) I wonder if he’s crazy… And before anyone yells at me. I mean that in the kindes way possible.

    He HAS not won the nomination. Either he’s insulting every Democrat OR he doesn’t know what he’s saying.

  14. I really hope karma bites him in the rear. He is just so arrogant. It reminds me of the articles I’ve read about his father. I think he inherited more than his dreams.

  15. Maybe he thinks he has a better fan base in Iowa? That does sound weird. He also might not be super sure he will win Oregon big enough, if at all.

  16. That’s what I’m wondering jjm. Maybe it’s closer than we think in Oregon? I’d love it but I’m doubtful Hillary can pull it off. She seems to be taking the state more seriously than he is and that would make me mad if I lived there. The early voting per the polls show a pretty close race so this is just weird.

    I’m sure the Iowa rally will be packed with Illinois residents as I read the caucus was.

  17. First off — thanks for everybody here for providing support, info and inspiration! Also, prayers for pets are freely offered by this old curmudgeon…tabbycat, I’m thinking of you.

    Next, I got this email this afternoon:

    From: Tom McMahon
    To: Xxxxxxx Xxxxx
    Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 12:01:42 PM
    Subject: RE: No letting up
    Last week, we told you how John McCain raised over $9 million for his campaign and the Republican National Committee in 48 hours.
    Yesterday, he was in Washington, D.C., attending back-to-back receptions for his top donors. The night ended with a “Spring Gala” dinner for those willing to pay thousands of dollars to wine and dine with John McCain and his top campaign staff.
    The RNC has boasted it plans to raise at least $120 million to support John McCain. That’s why Republican operatives are working around the clock to bank as much money as they can, while they can. They’re gearing up for a Swift Boat offensive on our nominee.
    Make a contribution now — and help match what the Republicans are raising:
    [link goes here but I won’t offer to supply it]
    We can’t let the Republicans get ahead of us.
    Tom McMahon
    Executive Director

    This was my reply a few minutes ago:

    Dear Tom, Sweetie…
    There is zero chance that I will ever contribute to anything based on a fund raising letter from the Democratic Party. In fact, there is a strong likelihood that I will never contribute to a party that disenfranchises its voters.
    If had wanted a party as strategically brutal against fellow party members as the Republicans are against opposition parties, I wouldn’t have joined the Democratic Party 40 years ago. How dare this “new” Democratic party act as though it does not need every precious member. How dare any super delegate refer to some members as “old” Democrats.
    My feelings on this could change if DNC endorses the seating (with full voting rights) of the Florida and Michigan delegations to the Convention in Denver.
    In the meantime, all the cash I can afford to contribute goes directly to Hillary Clinton. If I find that I can request John Kerry, Chris Dodd, and Howard Dean to return earlier contributions, I will.
    The outrage I feel today is comparable to that engendered in me by Bush v. Gore, and the disenfranchising of the Florida voters when the vote count was stopped. Today I feel the party has lost it’s soul — or sold it. And now, you can shove it.
    Xxxxxxx Xxxxx

  18. Katiebird, here is my trip report. I concur that “it’s the map, not the math” is the key point.

    Also, key, however, is the role of the media. We just have to take the attitude that nothing they say is important. WV did this; let us hope that WV and KEY do as well, and that Obama’s transparent attempt to suppress turnout by crowning himself on 5/20 does not deceive the voters in OR.

  19. Great letter whaleshaman. I especially liked your comment about Kerry, Dodd and Dean. I feel the same way about Edwards…I sent him my first contribution this year. I hadn’t decided on him yet but I wanted him to have enough money to stay in the race.

    It looks like money will decide this race after all. Not just money now, but where our money will come from in the future…the Obama Party. It won’t come from me.

    Thank you for your pet wishes.

    Has anyone heard from Anna Belle lately? I think about her and her dog all the time.

  20. Hi lambert,
    I started to add your link but had to take a lunch break. I’m running off to mow a lawn now. But, I’ll add your link as an update when I get back.

    I loved your story.

  21. whaleshaman,

    Wow. That’s good. Did you have to look up a special address? It seems like the messages I get aren’t real addresses.

  22. I heard this pod cast with Hillary and afterwards I said I’d walk though hell fire for this woman. I was very moved when she spoke about meeting people on the campaign and everywhere they beg her not to quit .
    Hillary Clinton is a great leader and we need her in office, ASAP

  23. Have you seen this? Democratic Leadership, Please Listen: Plea for Florida and Michigan

    I saw it as a link of one of the Hillary-centric blogs I visit. Please pass it around!

    This man speaks from Alabama.

  24. Fantastic reply whaleshaman, 4:34 pm

    You go, sweetie…

  25. katiebird, this was the header, I just did a reply — hope it went:

    —– Original Message —-
    From: Tom McMahon
    To: Xxxxxxx Xxxxx
    Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 12:01:42 PM
    Subject: RE: No letting up

    Anglachel has a pretty good explanation posted. I guess it is all about the money, after all.

    I guess the party has a new platform: $S$$$$, $$$$$$ and more $$$$$$. They built it on the backs of the poor, same old sad rotten story.

    I wonder if Ted has good health insurance. Helicopter rides to the best hospital in the state don’t come cheap.

  26. oops, the pretty generic email address dropped off — let’s try again:

  27. okay, i think i get it now. 😉

  28. Hi, everyone. I usually just lurk, because someone else has usually already expressed my feelings quite well, but I wanted to spread the word about a Flag Day Protest planned to let the DNC know in no uncertain terms how wrong they are if they really believe we will all forgive and forget and vote Obama this fall if they continue to ignore reality and try to hand the nomination to him.

    Anyone willing to participate in the world’s most low-tech protest (just phone calls, letters, and e-mails), please go to http://www.marcysmutiny.blogspot.com/
    when you get a chance. Those who have already changed your voter registration can participate too.

    I’m really glad Hillary is ignoring all attempts by the media and Obama’s camp to push her out of the race. It’s like real Democratic voters in blue or swing states just don’t count with party leaders. I honestly don’t know what’s motivating them. Or Obama. Maybe he thinks appearing in Iowa will impress us low-information hicks more than Oregon, but I hope jjm’s theory proves correct.

    Oh, I’m so excited. I just realized that for the first time ever, I have a website to put in the space above. What fun!

  29. wasn,t Iowa where he got his first victory?

    They are rural yet politically savvy (unlike Appalachia), they have the legitimate right to vote first no matter what (remember those rule breakers in FL, MI?) They had the insight to vote for Obama

    This is just about perceptions, symbolism, roolz. Smoke and mirrors. Mega-transcendental speech times infinity: ″It was here where my trip to the nomination started…blah, change, blah, hope….″

  30. I, too, listened to the podcast and was again impressed with Senator Clinton’s comments and unflagging energy. I don’t know how she does it. I’m just glad she does.

    BTW, I also sent the DNC’s recent “request for funds” back with this reply:

    Count the Votes or count me out!

    The bloody nerve. I also suggested they change their name from the Democratic Party to the Caucas Partyline.

  31. I wonder how many Iowans want their vote back?

  32. Katebird, thanks for your first-person report. I’m still jazzed from listening to the conference call and then watching Hillary in Oregon last night.

    Riverdaughter, enjoy the doubleheader. I’ll be around for the cocktail party.

  33. I am reading over at TalkLeft that now BO has 55% of the delegates from NV? Again, why on earth would I ever vote for this jerk?

  34. Argrrrrrrrrrr&*$%&@@#%!!!

    Have you guys seen the latest post from BTD?

    The Lack Of Integrity Of The Pledged Delegate System
    As we have known for a long time, the Democratic delegate selection process is a travesty. Starting with the disenfranchising caucus system, which shuts out legions of voters from the process, to the unbalanced proportional system of awarding delegates by congressional district (which produces such perverse results like a candidate winning 60% of the vote in a district receiving the same amount of delegates and a different candidate receiving 60% of the delegates with a 50.1% of the vote in another district), to the overweighting of regions arbitrarily and haphazardly (for example, in Nevada rural district were overweighted, in Texas urban districts were overweighted), to awarding low turnout states disproportional representation to high turnout states, the entire system is a travesty of democracy.

    Let me put it bluntly, anyone holding up the pledged delegate count as representing the “will of the people” is simply full of it. It does not. It thwarts the will of the people. BY DESIGN. Now we have the latest bit of evidence that the pledged delegate system is a total crock:

    U.S. Sen. Barack Obama succeeded in driving more supporters to the Nevada state convention than his opponent U.S. Sen. Hillary Clinton, who had won the state in the Jan. 19 caucuses. Obama essentially reversed Clinton’s lead from the caucuses, capturing 55 percent of the state delegates to Clinton’s 45 percent.

    Remember when the likes of Kid Oakland and TINS were screaming about voter disenfranchisement at the Nevada caucuses in January? How about this utter disregard for those votes? Will there be any honest person in the Obama supporters camp willing to address this disgrace? Of course not.

    Add this to our own gary’s last post, you really have to wonder what is up with the Democratic Party. Even our worse enemy couldn’t have done a better job destroying our nomination process.

  35. I can’t figure out why Obama is going to Iowa and not speaking ot his supporters in Oregon on Tues. Could Howard Dean have really sanctioned Obama declaring himself the winner? I don’t think Dean really has the power to do anything like that.

    Judging by the people I heard on the radio show in PA yesterday and the people who are so enraged about the NARAL endorsement, I think Obama could be risking a huge backlash. Either he really is completely tone deaf or he is so out of touch with real people that he doesn’t realize the amount of anger that is building up against his Chicago machine methods.

    It think it is important for us to keep reminding ourselves that it is we the people who hold the power in our hands to deal with these arrogant people. The people of WV rose up and made their voices heard though all the efforts of Obama to drown them out. I believe the people of KY will do the same.

    I don’t know what Oregon will do, but I have to wonder why Democrats in a state where the environment is a big issue would support Obama after he voted for the Cheney energy bill. Even McCain voted against it!

  36. BB:

    Apparently he plans to give his victory plans there, by emphasizing that IA is where it all started and he wanted to be with them when he “clinched” the nomination.

  37. MABlue,

    I get that, but on what is he basing the supposed “clinching?” It’s not up to Obama to announce that he has won the nomination. Won’t the uncommitted superdelegates be PO’d? I guess Obama thinks he has actually taken over the party. I guess we’ll have to wait and see if he’s right. But my guess is Hillary is going to have something to say about it. This is going to be quite an embarrassing spectacle, if you ask me. Of course nobody asked me…..

  38. He says he won because after KY and Oregon he will have over 50% of the pledged delegates. I think thats where the 17 delegates short explanations come from.

  39. MAB,
    Your link to BTD’s post says a lot. The system has been FUBARed. No doubt about that. It’s also why I think the Dems are in serious trouble if Obama is the nominee. A rigged system, or the appearance of it being so, that favors one candidate over the other will tick off many Hillary supporters. You can bet the GOP is going to bring that up over and over. Just look at how “sympathetic” they are being to Hillary. They are only “nice” to a Democrat if it serves to their advantage. Right now, the Dems are writing the GOPs GE strategy for them. Its amazing how absurd Dem “leadership” is.

    BTW, I think everyone should use quotes when referring to Dem “leadership”. You know, as a form of protest. Despite a mandate in the 2006 election, Dem “leadership” has been pretty ineffectual. We need leadership, not “leadership”.

  40. BB: Either he really is completely tone deaf or he is so out of touch with real people

    remind y’all of anyone? a certain president? that’s worked out real well.

    there are many parallels between W and O.

  41. Isn’t Barack Obama claiming that because he’s got 1/2 the “pledged delegates” he’s clinched the nomination?

    I wrote about this in a post last month:

    The Boyz’ New Math and a whole new Magic Number

    I thought it was TOTALLY absurd at the time. But apparently that’s all the OFBs need to commit.

  42. this acknowledges his intention to disenfranchise MI and FL, or confirms it anyway

  43. If Barack Obama stands before the nation on May 20th and declares victory don’t be surprised at the backlash that will more than likely ensue. The other half of this equation happens to be us, the Hillary supporters, and I cannot imagine silence to surround this declaration. There is not a complete tally from the voters and this is going to appear like a pretty arrogant posture.

    I will never ever consider voting for him under any circumstances even if he crawled on his hands and knees to beg for it. In the words of that great philosopher Charlton Heston: you will have to pull that vote from my dead hands!

  44. Pat,
    According to myths about Chicago politics, they may very well pull votes out of some people’s “cold dead hands”.

  45. ggmartinez; I forgot about that little discrepancy. Anything is possible.

  46. Speaking of Heston, if any Oborg wants to have a group hug NOW, my answer will be “Get your stinking paws off me, you DAMNED DIRTY APE!!!” 😉

  47. […] the Kos in Exile group: The meat of the conversation is that Hillary sees a clear path to the nomination. She said […]

  48. Katiebird,

    Just listened to the audio of Hillary’s call with the bloggers. I want to thank you so very much for letting Hillary know about the video of Chelsea’s brilliant comments on feminism, and how much we love it. I doubt anyone could have given her a finer gift than you did. It was obvious Hillary was genuinely thrilled.

    I believe it’s moments like that make it possible for her to go on.


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