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It’s the MAP, not the Math

Today, The Confluence was invited to speak with Hillary directly via teleconference. She was meeting us from Oregon and didn’t have very much time. Her voice was very hoarse but she sounded clear, energetic and feisty. Peeps, she’s not getting out of the race, not when she’s winning in the popular vote by more than 50,000 votes. There’s still Kentucky, Oregon, South Dakota, Montana and Puerto Rico and more voters to help her put some distance between herself and Obama. So, she’s in it to win it. And why shouldn’t she? She’s won more of the crucial states than he has. Granted, she may not win Texas or Oklahoma in November but he sure as heck isn’t going to win Utah, Idaho and Alaska. When we get right down to it, the superdelegates are going to base their ultimate decision on two things: who is the best candidate and who can win in November. Hillary says she will win it. It will be much tougher for Obama. The electoral map is definitely in her favor because she’s won most of the crucial swing states.

The only two states left in dispute are Florida and Michigan. Hillary says it’s unconscionable that the party is persisting in its plan to disenfranchise these voters. It just goes against everything the party stands for. And while she can take the heat from the negativity hurled her way, after all, she’s auditioning for the toughest job in the world, she think the worst insult is to the voters of Florida and Michigan who are being left out of the process. Obama is going to have to make peace with these voters at some point. The Rules and Bylaws committee is meeting on May 31 and her campaign is working to make sure the process is as transparent as possible. We should all be able to watch.

One final thing, she apologized to her supporters and bloggers for having to put up with the insults. It was very kind of her but I’ve gotten over the worst of it. Oh, I want to hold the media and the party and Obama’s campaign accountable for the offensive remarks they’ve hurled at us. But right now, I’m going to focus my attention on the map, especially MI and FL and let the DNC know that I expect a swift resolution so those voters have a say in how this race is decided.

Florida and Michigan *must* count or the winner is not legitimate. It’s 50 states, not 48. It’s the map, not the math.

This is an open thread.


124 Responses

  1. Wait, I thought it was 57 states.

    Dammit. And I just ordered my new flag and everything.

    Um, is the bar open? gqm needs a drink. or at least, he needs me to have a drink so he can live vicariously through me.

  2. Wait, I thought it was 57 states.

    What? There aren’t 57 states?

  3. Well behaved women don’t make history.

    Make history, ladies!

  4. Yup, open bar. I’m drinking scotch.

  5. (sigh) Oh, good!

    Merlot. Hold the ice, please.

  6. Hillary is amazing. She is saying a some of the same things she said on the blogger call. She just matter-of-factly said that she doesn’t care what the pundits say, she is the one who can win in the Fall and she is just going to keep going until the people decide. She sounds so comfortable with herself and so confident. I think she is really at peace with what she is doing.
    I’m so proud to be supporting her, no matter how corny that sounds. I really mean it.

  7. I liked the part where she said she takes the insults as a sort of perverse complement and that they don’t bother her at all.

    A huge weight fell off my shoulders when she said that. I wonder if it’s getting all those “complements” that’s giving her that almost surreal energy?

  8. (sigh). Can I have another one of these GD mocktails?

    When am I gonna be allowed to drink alcohol again? A brother can’t catch a break here.


  9. MABlue: I’ve gotten a virtual buzz from this place. I am in love with every one of you.

  10. Katiebird,

    I think she realizes that they are scared of her. That has to give her a feeling of power. Remember in NH when Hillary said she had found her voice by talking to the voters? I really believed her then and I still do.

    Now she sounds so natural, not stiff or rambling like Obama. She is just being who she is and she is a really nice, enthusiastic, optimistic person. She has come into her own, and she even looks younger and prettier because she is comfortable in her own skin and she knows who she is and what her purpose is. It’s really inspiring to see the growth in her.

  11. I already opened a bottle of chardonnay. Here’s to you my blogger sweeties, you.

    Some nice stuff over at ARG re Oregun, Clinton 45, Obama 50, 5 undecided. Here’s a breakdown with some very interesting demographics.

    Let’s get those ol’ ladies out there and voting. “Take the elderly bowling, take them bowling.”


    Clinton and Obama are tied at 49% each among voters saying they have returned their ballots (58% of likely Democratic primary voters) and Obama leads 52% to 40% among voters saying they will definitely return their ballots by May 20th.

  12. {{MABlue}} would you like to smell my Merlot?

  13. “I think she realizes that they are scared of her. That has to give her a feeling of power.”

    BostonBoomer — I think you nailed it.

  14. Hey folks, bring your drinks over here next to the TV and watch Hillary’s town hall meeting on KGW tv in Oregun. She’s speaking with undecideds, sounds kind of hoarse but great, as always.


  15. As a native Texan I firmly believe that Texas is absolutely in play for Hillary and I believe that with our demographics she is likely to sweep the state. Obama on the other hand doesn’t have a prayer.

  16. KB!

    No alcohol for me. (snif… snif…)

  17. Mapwise, superdelegates should study this.

    Who Is The Safe Choice For The White House?
    (Updated May 11, 2008)

  18. Lean over and sniff any time, MABlue. I love doing that during the times I’m not drinking.

  19. And y’all gotta listen to the podcast at Taylor Marsh’s place to hear our own Katiebird’s (AKA Spitfire Chick) sweet voice!

  20. It’s been a long week, we deserve a break. !2 steppers can have non-alcoholic (not kool-aid) refreshments.

  21. I’m watching the Oregun town hall and, oh my gosh, Hillary is soooo good on all the issues. She just gave an answer to a question about our future relationship with China that went through a myriad of issues – in just one question. She’s amazingly prepared to lead our country on day one and thereafter.

  22. Hey everyone, how about we all down a shot for every troll that pops in?? 🙂

  23. Elixir, where can we watch it?

  24. GoBama,

    That was just lovely. Your mother must be so proud!

  25. @ Frenchdoc, Unfortunately, it just wrapped up. It was at


    I don’t know if you can see it again.

    She was great but she sounds pretty tired. When asked “highs” and “lows” of the campaign she said anytime she gets to campaign with Chelsea, it’s a high, and being sleep deprived and the low is not having enough hours in the day to speak to all the great people in our nation. Good answer.

    As far as I heard, which was about 15 minutes out of the hour, she never talked about Obama, always McCain and Bush. Good idea. She’s our nominee she should be talking about the competition.

  26. Thanks Elixir. Hopefully, it’ll be on YT soon.

  27. Boston & KatieBird, PLEASE look at this Alicia Keys song SuperWoman dedicated to Hillary, great montage & lyrics:

  28. Just finished the Oregon Town Hall, she was awesome, really informative, precise, never missed a beat.

    5% difference will be erased!!!

  29. Frenchie: That’s a lotta shots. My liver might not survive.

    What the f**k. Damn the torpedos, full speed ahead.

    After a couple of rounds, those trolls might look do-able.

  30. riverdaughter said:

    Hillary says she will win it. It will be much tougher for Obama. The electoral map is definitely in her favor because she’s won most of the crucial swing states.

    That’s only part of the argument, and that’s the part the Obots tend to dismiss.

    It’s not that she simply won because somebody has to win those the Democratic primaries.
    The most important part of the argument is her strength the demographics of those States. She has become their candidate, unlike Obama whom they have a tough time connecting to.

    Hillary Clinton is actually the candidate who can widen the electoral map for the Deomcrats, considering the groups she strongly appeals to.

    Anglachel put it brilliantly in her latest magnum opus:

    She is building on the base that is under-represented in practical policy terms though necessary for electoral success, working class voters (And, yes, she would have the Black working class in there, too, save for Obama.), and then she has both realigned and expanded that base – women voters are more radicalized, Hispanic voters are looking to her and not to the right, Asian voters are entering the electorate for her, pocketbook voters are lining up behind her. Geographically, she is bringing out a new set of voters in the Southern tier, replacements for the well-off white voters who used to vote Democratic and who used to be the electoral majorities in those areas. Latin@s gave her Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada and California, and contributed to the Florida win, for example. Best of all, she is reclaiming the “Reagan Democrats” as specifically Clinton Democrats.

    It’s a very important point we have to make over and over again.

    All recent State by State polls simply confirm that fact.

  31. Gobama – big typo…it’s NObama…that’s the bumper sticker I have on one of my cars…the other one says “Anybody But Obama”…and I made new return mail labels with the same sentiments.

  32. Harridan checking in, rd. My assignment tonight? I’ve already been to hell and back. Just for the record, chief.

  33. Does anyone else watch Ninja Warrior? It is so fun to watch while drinking Merlot and reading the latest Anglachel.

  34. SM, what a wonderful song/video! Thanks! 🙂

    Miyq… lotta shots… that’s the whole point!

  35. Oh, Hell. ufa — what happened?

  36. Scary Smart Anglachel is awesome!

    But she’s right. We might have to grit our teeth another four years.

    I’ve toughed it out for eight years, i’ll survive four more if I have to.

  37. Is Gobama trying to win us over to Obama?

    Now they’re singing the hatin’? I mean that “Yes We Can” song thing was really…well, is driving a railroad spike into your own head the equivalent of “inspiring?” I guess so in Obamaland. That thing was really really really “inspiring.”

    Now this little ditty sounds like more of that change, hope, and New Politics Obama people toss around.

    myiq, cheers. And not to worry, MABlue. I’ll drink your drinks for you.

  38. SM,

    That is a wonderful video. Believe it or not, I saw that months ago posted at the big orange cheetos place, before we were all driven out. I had forgotten about it. That would be a great video to post here.

  39. Seeing that we are boozing it up for another night, I have a confession to make.

    I have not done any real housework in days! Been on and off this blog trying to keep up with all the latest news on our Hillary and half my kitchen is torn apart in the meantime. Just asking myself if I should join in the repartee since I have been remiss. Like Michele said, how can you clean house when your own is not in order.

    Should I pour or not??

  40. Katiebird,

    I think ufa is alluding to our latest troll, “gobama.” I don’t think he is one of the “sweeties” who is being paid to make nice.

    I have to admit it’s kind of fun being called a “harridan.” It’s much classier than “bitch” or “ho.”


  41. OK kids, it’s time for this undereducated, white, working class, over 50 female to drag her sagging derrier to bed. Yeah, yeah…just remember to let the dog out and turn the lights off. BTW, don’t eat all the Lucky Charms like last time.

  42. Oh, Pat, c’mon. Don’t tell me you are thinking about doing housework at 11:15PM! Let it go. It’s Friday night.

  43. NOt that I’m the representative of Latinos – but Latinos are 1000% behind Hillary.

    Bill & Hillary Clinton have done SO MUCH for our communities all over the country and in Latin America. She has a great relationship with many Latino politicians and have helped MANY of our own into politicial office (including Bill Richardson, the Judas) outside of the Republican base, that was mostly Cuban.


    My friends in Puerto Rico tell me that PR is heavily polling for Hillary – NewYoricans are also influencing the vote, with many NY-born/residing PuertoRicans endorsing her there.

  44. Goodnight Elixir. Sweet dreams…..sweetie.

  45. Awww garsh, night, sweetums.

  46. ‘gnighty-night, elixir! Sleep tight.

  47. Bleh, on that troll — I deleted the one message I found. I didn’t see that one at all.

  48. French & Boston, when KatieBird brought up the “what to pick” song, I thought of that one after this HARD WEEK OF OBAMA DRAMA, it’s a mellow thing, but really soulful and beautiful to watch & listen.

    And don’t offer GoBama a drink, he’s probably underage & past his bed time.

  49. katiebird, you’re doing great. I’m listening to you right now and you sound like a real person.

    Excellent regarding wanting to speak of issues and not play defense.

    Rico, pour our KB another one and let’s see if we can get her a little snockered.

  50. Been to hell and back? Have you been spending time at Cheetoville or Americablog?

    I will soon be having a medium decaf while I get busy on that last chapter of ye ol’ thesis. Mmmm-mmmm. Happy Donuts here I come. Keep a spot next to bar warm for me folks.

  51. Alright SM, go Puerto Rico for HIllary.

    But first Go KY and OR for HIllary!!!

  52. bb: What must I be thinking? It’s 11:15. I just mixed myself a gin and tonic, couldn’t wait for permission. Cheers to Hillary!

  53. KB, don’t delete them all! Trolls are like Squeaky toys!

  54. Pat Johnson, Decant!

  55. Oh, FrenchDoc — no worries of that — we can’t keep up. But if people are shaking from the experience, I’ll clean them out.

    I like Hillary’s message of getting strength from harassment. But, that doesn’t mean we have to go overboard.

  56. Don’t know if you’ve seen this one, but :

    Tina Turner’s Simply the Best, Hillary montage. GREAT VIDEO!

  57. I know, KB, I can’t imagine the muck you and RD have to waddle through to keep this place clean!

    Dontcha feel some of Hillary’s strength tonight after that conference call?? I know I do. I’m all pumped up!

  58. Katiebird,

    I was gonna delete it, but I thought it was kind of funny. What would make someone post a silly message like that when the reaction from us is going to be ho hum or ridicule? I find it fascinating.

    I guess some of them don’t realize that we’ve heard it all at this point and it has little effect on us. Like Hillary, I take it as a sign that we are having an effect.

  59. Katie, I used to watch Ninja Warrior with my daughter when she still lived here. is that really cute guy still on it? Nagano, I think his name was.

    it’s actually a pretty cool show. some amazing women on there!

  60. The songs I dedicate to Hillary while sweating my patoot off on the treadmill- Christina Aguliera’s “Figher” and Beyonce’s “I’m A Survivor”. Oh, and, of course, “Sisters Are Doin’ It For Themselves.”
    Hillary is my Joan of Arc without all that martyr stuff. Just so inspirational.

  61. After listening to Steve Corbett today, and then tuned into the podcast with Hillary, I have a feeling that this is going to the convention. They are now paying attention to the anger that is out here. It looks like she will take Ky and the race in Oregon seems to be tightening up. So how can the DNC ignore this when she has the big states and only carried caucuses in those states that are primed to go red? The women are vocal as we heard today. How much longer can the DNC wait and not address this possible defection?

  62. I have an old flag with with 48 stars on it, I sure hope I won’t have to use it!
    It’s the MAP not the MATH, I love it. She is so right about that. Thanks for the listen, that was great! Come on Kentucy, Oregon, SD PR and Montana, your votes have never been more important!

  63. Not to be “sexist” but I never did like Joan of Arc’s hairdo. We had a statue in my church and I swear to God she looked just like Ingrid Bergman who played her in the movies! I never could figure out who copied who.

  64. Pat, I’m glad you snapped out of it. What were you thinking?

    GQ, Speaking of the cheetos place, I dropped in over there for a minute and there is a diary about Hillary’s conference call with bloggers. They are all shocked and saying that we are getting talking points from the Clinton campaign and don’t have any original thoughts of our own. LOL!

  65. Not to be “sexist” but I never did like Joan of Arc’s hairdo.
    I know what you mean, Pat. Joan had helmet hair.

  66. !! SWEARING !!

    Jay Leno just had the most insulting skit of the year.

    It was supposedly Brian Williams interviewing Hillary. But when they opened the screen with her — she inhumanly-gigantic bosoms and a looow cut orange dress.

    (shaking my head)

  67. A’ight, sweeties, good night to you all & hope to comment with you soon.

    Thank you RiverDaughter, KatieBird, Gary in Chapel Hill & all othe great commenters here.

    What a week & THANK YOU WV! Thanks to Hillary & God for keeping her in the race.

    God don’t like ugly – and we can’t let the DNC do to Hillary what the GOP did to Gore.

    Popular Vote + 50 States = Hillary Clinton, 44th president of the US!

  68. Did Joan of Arc have “helmet hair?”

    Joan is my confirmation name, after Joan of Arc. And I once was Joan of Arc on Halloween when I was in about 3rd grade. I guess I’ve always liked women who are fighters.

  69. SM — I’m missing things and catching up and losing them again. I WILL listen to you video. But I haven’t gotten to it yet. When I asked for the music I was thinking that I would would use it on an open thread. But I didn’t end up doing that.

    We can use it later though, right?

  70. Good night SM.

  71. {{SM}} Good night — did you see my other message?


  72. Good night SM, Talk to you soon.

  73. bb: I went to Catholic school. They had a poster on the wall with her being burned at the stake. The nun told us that this was what we could expect to happen if we talked when she was out of the room. That is when I discovered the silence is golden rule. Those nuns were fierce!

  74. kiki — are there regulars? This is an obstacle course in Japan. Crazy hard. They start out with 100 men (and another course with 100 women) and 4 stages. Usually 6-10 out of the 100 get through the 1st course and sometimes no one makes it to the last one.

    It’s really difficult and crazy-interesting. They get jokers who obviously are not in it to win (comics and soap opera stars) but also Olympic athletes.

  75. Pat, it was exactly that sort of thing that had my parents take us out of Catholic school after one year. CCD all the way after that.

  76. I’m going to just say this…but before I do I’d like to make a request, Rico(is he on hand tonight?) a double of bourbon, Kentucky style…ok, I am embarrassed that if polling in Oregon is correct, my cohorts in Oregon seem positioned to do what they did in Vermont, and vote in the majority for Senator Empty Suit. By that, I mean white women. The true progressive white women are in PA, OH, WV, FL, and my great state of MA, where they voted for the most qualified, most substantive, most progressive candidate, who happened to be a woman. I have a friend in vermont. She didn’t bother to vote, but she thought it was so cool that her cohorts voted for the african american man. And, really, isn’t that what it comes down to? When people who profess to care about the environment vote for the guy who only last fall introduced a coal to liquid bill, and in his first year voted for the Cheney energy plan, when they vote for the guy who wouldn’t even grant them a debate, you have to ask yourself, why? I think it is to assauge liberal white guilt. And, it’s pathetic. I hope my cohorts in Oregon prove the polls wrong, knowing as they must that Senator Empty Suit plans to use their vote to halt the first would-be female Democratic President.

  77. bb: Believe it or not I taught CCD for five years. I had the first graders. It always made me laugh to think that someday one of those first graders would grow up and go on Letterman saying how they lost their religion in Mrs. Johnson’s class.

  78. Melanie: I have been saying that right along. They want the “cool guy”. They are not bothered by the issues or the lack of experience they want to be able to say “I voted for the cool guy”.

  79. Oh I missed the nun stories? I had a nun who made you squat in the cloakroom (remember those) when you were bad. She’d leave you in there and do random checks. If she caught you sitting or standing she’d rap your knuckles with the ever present yardstick.

  80. I only had to go to Catholic School for 3 years, because when we lived in Lawrence, KS, there was no Catholic school. I had to go to catechism classes on Saturdays though. My brothers and sisters were stuck going longer. My youngest brother got to go to public school, because my mom realized Catholic school wasn’t really good for us. Years later, she apologized to all of us for sending us to be brainwashed by the nuns.

  81. Maria Garcia: One nun I had actually hung a boy on one of the clothes hooks for an entire afternoon. The kid’s feet never touched the floor. When you look back on the days of the “old nuns” they could have taught the nazi’s a thing or two.

  82. I was just in the 3rd grade my year. And all remember is that all the boys were named Michael and they got shaken all the time.

  83. Pat? Your cloakroom story is the worst I’ve ever heard. It sort of makes me sick.

  84. Pat, LOL! Wouldn’t that be great if one of your students did that?

    After I got out of the sixth grade, I went to public school and had to go to CCD on Saturdays again. I used to raise my hand and ask the priest why women couldn’t be altar boys or priests. He would try to explain and i’d argue with him. I don’t know where it came from. I was always like that. I started to lose my religion when I found out women couldn’t go into the sacristy unless they were cleaning.

  85. Wow, that cloakroom story is bad. That nun should have been arrested!

  86. I went the whole way, right through high school. We had a priest who handed out report cards each quarter and he would bring his dog. The dog would go up and down the aisle sniffing crotches. Father would admonish us not to “pet” the dog. We were actually trying to get the damn thing off of us, especially the boys who had more to lose.

  87. katiebird: You you no idea! One nun cut off my ponytail during class because I was talking. I had to go home and get a note from my mother who more or less agreed with “sister”. Nuns ruled in those days.

  88. (shaking my head) I don’t. Have any idea. My father would have. (stop) Well, he would have had something to say about that.

  89. OMG! Pat, that’s terrible. Our nuns in the Midwest weren’t as vicious as yours. I thought it was bad that a nun made my left-handed sister write with her right hand. And that my little sisters were traumatized by being forced to watch a movie about train and car accidents–who knows why? They would both start screaming hysterically everytime our car approached a railroad crossing.

  90. Our nuns were really pretty bad in retrospect. Not one of them had a speck of human kindness. What I remember is that they pretty much hated us. It was a little school on the south side of Chicago in a neighborhood that had gone from all white to black and puerto rican in the blink of an eye. The nuns apparently resented this and didn’t like us little brown kids very much. Anytime a new family moved in from Puerto Rico they would place the kids in 1st grade no matter how old they were just cause they couldn’t speak English. And for lunch they fed us hamburgers with onions inside the patties. What kid likes that. They forced us to eat every last bite and check napkins and fists to make sure we didnt spit any of it out.

  91. bb: I have to admit I am laughing out loud at the railroad crossing story.

  92. Pat, Well our family laughs about the story now. I just can’t figure out what the point was of showing little elementary school kids a traffic safety film.

    When I was in sixth grade–10 years old, one of the priests came to our class and read us a horror story about an unwed mother. She only had sex once and got pregnant and her whole life was ruined! I don’t think any kid in the class had much of an idea of what he was talking about.

  93. BB: “And that my little sisters were traumatized by being forced to watch a movie about train and car accidents–who knows why? They would both start screaming hysterically everytime our car approached a railroad crossing.”

    I think I saw that movie in the 2nd grade. I still get flashes of it and it’s been what? I was 7 years old and I’m 54 now.

    Horrible, just horrible. But it was a public school. I think the showed us anything on the “free” list.

    We saw some movie about a French kid with a balloon (I known, I know, it’s famous) every-single-year.

  94. The “cool guy” Barry was the big kid no one wanted to play with. I think that is why he is so dainty in his eating habits.


  95. But for real trauma, anyone remember air raid drills?

  96. We could trade horror stories all night! I had two friends who were sisters. The parents had little money so when it came time to get married they told the priest they would like to have a double wedding to cut down on expenses. The priest looked over his glasses and said, “What are you planning, a parade?” He was a delight! No wonder most of us who were brought up in this are a little nuts.

  97. Maria, I’m of the right age. But we never had them. I don’t know why. There were military bases all over (Marin County, CA)

  98. KB, I’m just glad I never saw the train crash movie. I only went to that school for one year, sixth grade. I guess I missed out on that particular trauma.

  99. We had those drills in junior high. It was in case the Russians attacked us with nukes. They had us go out in the hallway and kneel against the wall and cover our heads with our arms. Duck and cover. Sad. Those were the days when people were building those underground bomb shelters.

  100. Off to bed as the kitchen awaits. Having company for dinner on Sunday so I had better finish. Night.

  101. Pat, I guess we were looking we actually had great priests. They went to the trouble of learning Spanish, for one thing. The nuns were the crazy ones in our parish.

    As for the air raid drills, who knows why we had them. Probably another form of torture since they made us kneel under our desks with our arms over crossed over our heads. But the worst part about being nuked, in our minds, would have been the part about being blown to bits since the nuns put it into our heads that it would be very bad if they couldn’t find all our bits and we’d have to go to heaven with missing parts.

  102. I guess I need to hit the sack too. Goodnight fellow Conflucians! It’s been a good week for Hillary–and for us.

  103. Yep its late good night.

  104. I remember a scary traffic film — probably not the same one — in which the kids, in the back seat of the classic 60’s station wagon, were being whiny and annoying and hitting each other, and the dad, driving, and mom, in the passenger seat, kept turning around to tell them to quit it. Eventually the parents are distracted by the kids at the very second they speed past a sign reading “BRIDGE OUT AHEAD”, and the whole family drives off the non-bridge and are killed. Can you imagine someone showing that to a room full of kids today? Not only would the school be sued, they’d have to bring in a team of counselors to help them deal with the trauma. It was very effective, though — I remember telling my little brother that we had to behave better.

  105. Oh man! You are so right about the counselors being called in. We saw all sorts of freaky things in school when I was a kid.

    Oh, but one time the Globe Trotters came to my elementary school, that was very cool!

  106. Hey, this is so great about hearing from Hillary, RD & Co. You know, based on the posts below about trolls and 400 bloggers– we are here and writing about her because we care about Hillary Clinton and we want her to win. After yesterday, and NQ’s piece on “trademarking” the words hope, change and his own name, I’m so disgusted by this faux sham of a candidate…well…you know how I feel. He’s a fake, a cheap shot and the history of the Presidency is tarnished. PBS had a special on FDR, really great. He has always been one of my faves. I see that Hillary would be like him. He was there in the Great Depression, and we need that again now. What we don’t need is a freak co-opting the concept of Fireside Chats and MLK. While making himself President Inc. He is disgusting. In case you missed the NQ here is the link. There is a huge piece in the mag Fast Company on it all. You can read that through the link. What he has done is target market himself, incorporate himself as a company. If that doesn’t make you gag, what will?

    In Washington they need to investigate the fundraising on this guy and all his little companies. If you get to talk to Hillary Clinton again make sure she knows about this.


  107. […] Hillary is telling her supporters that this race isn’t about the math, it’s about the map. She is well aware that she is much more likely to beat Mcain than Obama. […]

  108. You never do know about places like Oklahoma. She beat Obama there and it’s right next to Arkansas. I did a ton of calling there and a LOT Of people would vote for her over McCain since they are fed up and hurting economically there. I think she would win or be very close there. I do NOT think Obama can claim the same thing as he is sooo far left in their eyes…she is far more electable in places such as Oklahoma and Arkansas than he is.

  109. Can someone please explain to me, MSNBC’s total support of Obama without all their reporters/anchors, men/women losing all credibility. . Hillary, please, boycott MSNBC

  110. The republicans are going to produce a simple AD. Obama, junior state senator, 8 years, You never heard of him. Why. Because he had no accomplishments of any note. Junior, U.S. senator for 3 years, his first term. Accomplishments of note. NONE. Think about it.

  111. The Map is a Myth. It’s about delegates, always has been and always should be. Bill Clinton even said that, at least when his wife was ahead in the total delegate count. The part of the process that needs reforming is the superdelegate mess – that should be eliminated completely after the election. It’s ironic that the Republican party is more “democratic” than the Democratic party when it comes to choosing a Presidential candidate.

  112. Dear Visitors,

    You are welcome to post respectful comments. Anything bordering on abusive or trollish will be deleted.

  113. The DNC has literally shot itself in its foot during this race. It has, by its actions, shown support for one of the candidates over the other; it has shown FL and MI voters that our votes are not important and that what we have said is not important, either; it has encouraged influential Democrats to call for an end to the race by asking that Hillary step down; and it has accused Hillary of dividing the voters by continuing her campaign. The more the DNC has shown its backing for Obama, the more the rest of us must dig in and not let the DNC cast our votes for us. I anticipated all along that the news media (I use that term loosely) would back Obama over Clinton, but I surely didn’t expect the DNC to weigh in and try to sway the election. I just didn’t see that one coming. I was upset when the Kennedys endorsed Obama; I was sad to see John Kerry back him; I was frustrated when Bill Richards supported him; and I was sickened when John Edwards jumped onto the bandwagon. But when the DNC started its version of “let’s just get the little lady out of here quietly before she causes a fuss”, I am furious. *climbs down from soapbox and wanders away*

  114. Oh, {{Yolanda}} — don’t go away. I think you’ll find lots of friends here.

  115. Yolanda,

    Come on up to the front page post. We’ll be talking about the primaries soon. Welcome!

  116. What is going on in here, quit dreaming!

    This a primary about delegates! No Electoral College reasoning is allowed!

    Hillary in 2000 wanted to abolish the Electoral College because Gore won the popular vote, while Bush “stole” the election.

    She’s offering a way to steal opinions of her chances.

    She has no chance to be the nominee anymore. Super Delegates can’t overturn will of the voters. The delegate leader wins! If Obama still has the popular vote lead, he wins the race twice.

    Michigan and Florida will be split delegates, that’s the most important choice in this primary. Not the votes from those those states since those state governments ruined the primary process themselves.

    The voting process was flawed in both states.

  117. I was not convinced by the map/math argument.
    The rules for selcting the nominee are X and everybody is playing by those rules.
    The argument seems like looking at all the results and finding a new set of rules where that HRC wins and saying “hey, let pretend that is the rules”.
    Once upon a time I think the Dems did use winner take all but decided that it was not very democratic. The rules also already emphasive the blue states – states that vote blue get more delegates.
    If the Clinton delegates don’t like the rules I think they can try to change them 2012.

  118. I dont understand the DNC is supporitng OBama thing. Can anyone explain? I think they are just following the rules like everybody except HRC.
    I do think it is done and over.
    IF there where three candidates then nobody wins then the supers can do what they want. The worst thing for HRC was for JE to drop out. Maybe with more split vote the argument that supers can overwhelmingly revoke the “majority” is jok –
    otherwise it is just wrong. Fair minded people should see it that way.

  119. No, the whole point of having superdelegates is to avoid having the extremists take over the primaries and give us another McGovern/Mondale-caliber candidate (which is what Obama is). THERE IS NO RULE THAT REQUIRES THE SUPERDELEGATES TO OBEY THE “WILL” OF THE VOTERS IN THE PRIMARIES/CAUCUSES. They are free to vote for whomever they wish. (And furthermore, they don’t vote until the convention, so all these endorsements don’t mean a hill of beans.)

  120. Bill, you think Obama is a Mondale-caliber candidate? Obama inspires people with his vision for the future, his optimism, his fresh perspective on our problems, and yes, his hope. Clinton is a fine candidate, but face it, that vast majority are not voting with her, they are voting against Obama, because they fear his race, or fear his middle name.

  121. I’ve waited a lifetime to vote for a woman of Hillary Clinton’s caliber for President. You are wrong, Omega.
    You simplify motives to the lowest uncommon denominator. If I fear Obama, it is his inexperience that motivates that fear. Our country cannot afford the luxury of rhetorical “change you can believe in” from a man who’s sole experience is less than a term as a junior senator. Who has no long-term friends in the political arena to have his back, who is NOT on a first name basis with most of the world’s heads of state.
    A man who is sexist, racist (even against his own grandmother), and condescending to those whose vast experience way outstrips his own meager resume. Our country is in far too much trouble to play
    “I have a dream” with Obama, and let’s see how he does. I can’t vote for McCain, and I WON’T vote for a man I don’t even like. I WILL, if necessary, write my candidate’s name on the ballot, in my own hand. It is an alternative to staying at home, and one which will fulfill my desire and my comittment to vote for MY chosen candidate, Hillary Rodham Clinton. Last time I looked, write-in votes were legal, and counted.

  122. Omega — you are right. I fear Obama. He has no record, of any accomplishment. 8 years as a junoir state senator. NOTHING. U.S. junior senator, NOTHING. I fear him because he is going to lose. The republican’s are going to show America, Obama is an
    empty suit.

  123. […] nach Bill, könnte sich aber ebenfalls zur Mantra entwickeln. Er wurde jedenfalls in Blogs, wie Riverdaughter und MyDD und sogar von kritischen Stimmen wie,  Outsidethebeltway.com, […]

  124. […] nach Bill, könnte sich aber ebenfalls zur Mantra entwickeln. Er wurde jedenfalls in Blogs, wie Riverdaughter und MyDD und sogar von kritischen Stimmen wie,  Outsidethebeltway.com, […]

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