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      A few months ago I read a couple of books by the Singaporean intellectual Kishore Mahbubani. In “Has China Already Won he discusses Taiwan. The one exceptional trigger for a war involving China is Taiwan. Most of the time, the Chinese leaders have a lot of policy flexibility. There are no strong domestic lobbies to worry about. But the one issue where the Ch […]
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It’s Happening, Reg! It’s really happening!

The worm has turned. We weren’t the only angry ones. No, no, there are thousands more like us and they are P.O.d. I can just hear the party boyz sitting back and joking, “A little bit of an ego trip from the Feminists?” like it was straight out of Life of Brian. No, they don’t take us seriously yet. But this first snowball threatens to become an avalanche. See what I mean:

I just want to add one thing: Friends don’t let friends vote Republican. Don’t vote for McCain.

94 Responses

  1. Better not to vote?

  2. RD, are you sitting it out in November or voting for Obama? It’s okay if you don’t want to answer but I thought I’ve read you say you were voting down ticket only.

    I just paid my first visit to EENR since the Edwards’ endorsement. There were many posters there who weren’t happy that he did it. Interesting.

  3. This movement is beginning to have legs! I would never vote McCain but I will also not vote for Obama.

  4. Friends don’t let friends vote for an empty suit, Daley machine pol.

  5. Hi RiverDaughter, I’m planning to proudly vote for Hillary this November. I think they did OK — I sure couldn’t have done as well. Not talking to Bill O’Reilly.

    I’m glad they brought up the FL and MI situation but I wish they had a chance to get deeper in the rules, but how do you do THAT in a 2 minute interview?

    Did you see what TaylorMarsh said today?

    As I’ve said many times recently, I will work hard to defeat John McCain if Obama is the nominee. If Clinton pulls it out, I will work tirelessly for her. I hope everyone is clear about the distinction. The ideals and principles of the Democratic Party mean too much to me, even if the Party elite are acting like thugs.

    However, make no mistake about it, the Democratic Party has sent a signal to women that Hillary’s candidacy isn’t historic. They’re nonchalance over her fight about Michigan and Florida, as well as the undemocratic nature of caucuses, not to mention their breezy attitude about pushing her out before this race is through has wounded a lot of people. Ted Kennedy took his fight to the floor with far less of a case than Hillary Clinton has today, yet she’s being screamed at to get out. The Democratic elite seem to be saying that the little women got their play in the political pond, but let’s get serious, shall we? With the proclamation that Obama was the “presumptive nominee” ready to declare “victory” on May 20th, the women of the Democratic Party were once again proclaimed invisible and expected to fall in line for The One.

    Try winning in November without them.

  6. Well behaved women don’t make history.

    Go make history

  7. At this point McCain and Obama are two sides of the same coin to me. For me McCain is a better candidate than Obama but affiliated with a wrong party. Obama though belongs to the better party. For me if Hillary does not win this nomination then the choices are either not to vote or to vote for McCain. I have still to take a call on the same but one thing is clear – I will not vote for Obama come what may.

  8. Anyone have a good link to these groups? The addresses on TV don’t seem to work…maybe overloaded.

  9. katie, it would be hard for me to see myself as invisible but then vote for the ones who erased me. I guess Taylor Marsh is thinking about her future in blogging/radio and I can understand that. She is talking out of both sides of her mouth there, though.

  10. Sorry, I just checked EENR, and came up with this gem, a quote from Ezra Klein:

    Talk of the Two Americas always begged the question of how we could build one. It was never a question Edwards had a very good answer for. But nor did I think he ever really needed one. Surely step one was the simple recognition of the country’s bifurcation. A candidate willing to admit our condition was better than one who sought to deny it.

    Gee, at least Bill Clinton felt the pain and got laughed at. Tell the rural folks worried about their jobs, recession, cost of living, and everything else, that, oh, the democratic party recognizes the country’s bifurcation.” They’d probably tell you where to go.

    In fact, I am going to suggest that as a new slogan for the Creative Class:

    Only the democratic party recognizes the country’s bifurcation.

    The elites don’t need to do anything else, just recognize it.

  11. Today a colleague of mine asked me a) what I thought about John O, and b) what was I going to do now.
    This woman knew I had supported Edwards and that I turned to hillary in the winter after Edwards withdrew from the race.
    She was stunned when I responded that a) I was sad and angry that he had endorsed Obama, and that I realized that this was either a politically motivated endorsement (to keep Clinton out of the Democratic leadership) or it was a financial decision (possibly retiring his campaing debt or raising mucho $$ for his foundation). And b) that I had no intention of voting for Obama. She was shocked when I said this.

    Oddly enough, only a moment earlier, a client of mine emailed me the column Marie Cocco had written for today’s WaPo entitled: “Misogyny I Won’t Miss” . So I copied the article for my office mate and said this and her brilliance are what turned me to Hillary. And this is why I won’t vote for Obama – even if Hillary is on the ballot (unless she is in the top spot).

    We are both from Chicago and we both are reviled by Chicago politics. I am not understanding how she cannot see the Daley machine all over this candidate.
    But she doesn’t. Go figure.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/14/AR2008051403090.html

  12. tabbycat, we will all make the transition at our own pace. For me, the treatment of FL & MI has already gone past the point of return. I still expect them to be seated (with full voting rights) but the voters the attempt to humiliate the millions of voters from those states is unforgivable.

    And I’ve heard too many Democrats participate in that activity.

    I’m not quite ready to actually leave the party. I expect that Hillary will win the nomination and that she’ll clean house at the DNC. And I still dream of feeling like a part of it.

    But if they persist in this game with FL & MI, who knows how I’ll feel. Or how any of us will feel.

    We think we’ll vote for down ticket Democrats. But, what if they’ve all participated in the sham convention?

    I’m not going to judge Taylor, this story is unfolding too fast for that.

  13. “Today a colleague of mine asked me a) what I thought about John O, and b) what was I going to do now.”

    Was supposed to read:Today a colleague of mine asked me a) what I thought about John Edwards endorsement of BO, and b) what was I going to do now.

    I don’t know what I did to erase all that.

  14. True all around katie. The only down ticket race I have would be the primary for Senator to run against Lamar! Alexander. That won’t be a contest and my Congressman has his seat for life so I may just sit home and rest my aching back. It will be sad for me…I’ve never missed an election even though most of my Tennessee votes are losers.

  15. The reaction of the Oborg is either “they’re bluffing” or “they’re just mad, they’ll come around before November.”

    Either way, the Oborg aren’t taking it serious.

    Yet

  16. Thanks for posting this! I’m not near cable channels this week. Sent off an e-mail but got an e-mail delivery failure on the Michigan e-mail address but the Ohio worked. Close enough for now. . .

  17. Start those letters flying to your Democratic representatives, local papers, and to Nancy P.

    The DNC needs to be very clear that we are not going to take it anymore. Had Hillary been treated fairly and lost, and if Obama were a real person and not an ad campaign product, I’d have a different feeling. To be having a coup within the Democratic Party that portrays the Clintons as racists (and anyone not voting for Obama as racists) and to have been so demeaning to women, well, it is goodbye party.

    The produce they are selling is another empty suit. I feel the same way about Bama as I do about Bu$h. Susan B. Anthony told us not to support for such a party. My vote counts, and it will count against Obama should it come down to that.

  18. When looking at a future where misogyny is institutionalized at the DNC if Obama wins, makes the threat of McCain much, much smaller. What will Obama do if he realizes he can raise more money by appointing a judge who will overturn Roe V Wade. there is a huge, ultra-conservative social element in the african American community. Could he be planning on assembling a coalition with them, and with white evangelicals?

    I think these ladies need to get their talking points in order.

    1. The reason they won’t vote for Obama is the sexism the DNC has tolerated on behalf of Obama’s campaign and at the expense of the Clinton campaign.

    2. a. The examples of this are the drumbeat from established Dem officials, and progressive writers who are demanding that Clinton drop out of the race.

    b. Randi Rhodes’ diatribe that no one has objected to.

    c. The gang up in the debates and the sandbagging of Clinton with incorrect quotes from her husband.

    Or whatever. They have to figure out what their talking points are and put them in order. If they’re objecting to the sexism, then the elimination of Florida and Michigan needs to be rendered in those terms. That didn’t happen tonight.

    Anyway, I hope they find someone who is media dynamic to run with the ball, because we’ll have a real impact if that happens. This is the kind of shit that networks love.

    Congrats to these two women for getting through their first appearance. It’s got to be tough but they did an okay job.

  19. Shainzona: I sent an e-mail to the Ohio address listed which was – HCFPinOH@gmail.com. I had originally tried the Michigan address which was HCFPinMI@gmail.com but I got this Delivery Failure error: UNKNOWN_USER: No such user.

  20. Make that “product” they are selling. Axelrod’s replay of the Deval Patrick Hope + Change (TM) ad campaign.

    I just laughed when I saw it. The unenthusiastic Bama playing a third-string cheerleader–“Yes, we can.” So bored. The fact that “real” not TV politicians think that the many would fall for that silliness shows what they think of us. I wouldn’t have been drawn to it when I was a teenager.

    Take a chance on your own aspirations. What does that mean? What is the change that you are proposing? Vote out all politicians now in office, even Nancy P.?

    Is Soros is behind the money that bought NARL and Edwards? Both will live to regret their alliances, mark my words. Elizabeth Edwards is smart enough to know that her group shouldn’t alienate half the people who would donate and support her. These “endorsements” are for narcissists and egoists. Do you think that I’m going to vote based on your endorsement?

  21. CB, the suit thing reminds me of the first time I saw Obama on the David Letterman show. He was pretty flat — I was surprised. I’d heard such great things about him. But he does this ummm thing every 4th word or so. And didn’t say ANYTHING of interest.

    There was no chemistry between him and David. I’ve seen David just glow during political interviews but, not that one. It was work for both of them.

    Then as they wrapped up, David leaned over and said, “You’ve got a nice suit”

    I looked at mister and said, “Did he just tell Barack Obama that he is an empty suit?”

    Like I said, that was my first Barack experience. and it’s never improved.

  22. Those women weren’t great–at all–but it’s about getting that idea out there: women are pissed. But it’s not just the ladies; Latinos, working class voters, and hard core Democrats are growing increasingly angry at being dismissed and forced to prop up an unelectable candidate whose hostility towards basic Democratic principles is clear.

    I suggest people write letters, e-mails, and make calls to your local and state Democratic Congress members, superdelegates, and the likes of Pelosi, Reid, and Dean. Write, call, and e-mail. When it comes to contacting people at the federal level, call and ask them which format will show them how serious you are. Most prefer letters, but they might be backlogged due to security reasons so I’m not sure how to get our message to them quickly.

  23. Really good article on ABCnews:

    http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4861699&page=1

    (Obama Helped Supporters Get Millions in Illinois State Business )

    Yeah, a new kind of politics! same as the old politics.

  24. That was totally awesome…Good for them being willing to get up there and deal w/that clown O’Reilly…

  25. There are a lot of us who are PO’d. The DNC and the party honchos have made a terrible miscalculation by taking us women for granted. I don’t know if they’ll wake up in time or not. If they don’t, they’ll lose the presidency.

    Riverdaughter is right about McCain. There has to be a better way to protest than by voting for a Republican. I admit at times I fantasize about getting revenge that way. But I’d like to find a better way. One thing I plan to do is to keep supporting Hillary whether she wins this time or not.

    I’m like Katiebird, though. I haven’t given up yet. I still think Hillary can win this thing. She’s a sticker, and she’s inspired me to be a sticker too.

  26. Um, read this letter from the great women of my great state. Dean apparently agrees, regardless of delegates, the votes in FL and MI count:

    http://www.countthevotes.net/id1.html

  27. What’s the opposite of misogynistic? I don’t know the term, but I’m seeing it here and other places. Please don’t take it personally or blame Obama for being ahead.

  28. Write Hillary in! Protest vote.

  29. Redstar, all the other networks are so in the tank for Obama, that Fox is probably the only one to even notice them. I used to detest Fox and never watch them. But they’ve actually been the most even this election cycle. And Hillary has actually got more air time from them than anyone else. So even though they are still terrible, they are less terrible than everyone else. How low the media has fallen!

  30. Well it’s time to make a pretty hardcore choice. They’ve thrown the steering wheel out the window.

    If we scramble to keep us all from going over that cliff, then they own us. We’re their little pet. They’ll never listen to us. We tried to bite them, but we were just bluffing. We cried wolf when the real threat was more like a little lapdog.

    If we let the car go over the cliff, they can try to blame us- but they’ll never do it again. They really won’t. And the tougher we are, the less their blame matters.

    Most Dems really do stand to lose more than we do if Obama tanks.

    So you have a choice. If you make sure that everyone understands that you really mean that an Obama nomination means you will personally see your state goes to McCain – no matter what that means – and that only vocal Hillary supporters get your support, then we can take the WH in four years.

    But if you haven’t got the stomach for it, not only can we expect an Obama party now (whether he wins or loses) – but the Democratic party as we know it will probably not come back in your lifetime.

    And if that’s the case, please do not use the words “unacceptable” or “not going to take it”. Because it is acceptable and you will take it.

    And btw Hillary has to say don’t vote for McCain. It’s sort of like listening to someone with a gun at her throat. But those politicians who want to support Hillary, and would rather have her on the ticket, they need the political cover you give them by being loud and vocal and angry. Your anger is their excuse to take action.

  31. Please read the letter at the link I posted.

  32. Good for those women. It took a lot of guts for them to step forward on camera, especially the African American woman.

    I also understand and respect Taylor’s position so I urge everyone to lay off her. She has probably brought more visibility to the anti-Obama fight than most bloggers due to her radio roots.

    If we are going to pull this off – i.e. stop this coup – we need as many allies as possible. Throughout history women have shown how to make designer meals out of crumbs. Casting people aside weakens us all.

  33. The misogyny in this campaign is not an accident. It is a deliberate strategy, and was planned from the beginning. Remember that Orwellian video that was introduced on YouTube early in 2007? It was a static portrait of Hillary, and the sound track kept repeating OLD politics OLD this OLD that. As I recall, the thing ended with Hillary’s face being smashed. Oh yes, it was very calculated, and no doubt based on the most up-to-date marketing techniques and metrics.

    May David Axelrod rot in hell.

  34. I have checked and we do not have the option to write-in Hillary in New Mexico. So it is either vote for McCain or not vote. Somehow, no vote does not seem adequate. It is too passive. So I am leaning toward voting for McCain if Obama is the nominee. I am hoping and still believe I won’t have to make that choice.

  35. I read it Melanie. I hope they can get him to make a public statement about the votes counting.

  36. These are very politically savvy women. I think they can, but perhaps we need to call the DNC, say we have read the letter, and we expect him to make a statement ASAP.

  37. I bookmarked it and will write the DNC tomorrow. Thanks Melanie.

  38. I guess I’m gonna be the minority voice on this thread- at least so far. I don’t want Obama. That’s the
    bottom line for me. I don’t trust him, I don’t like him, I think he’s a real bottom feeding dirty politician with politics that blow with the wind. He is an opportunist and a flim-flam man. I will vote for McCain. If I write in Hillary, my vote counts 1/2 against Obama. If I vote for McCain my vote doubles in its power against our country having the worst piece of crap President I can imagine. I believe that Hillary will get the nomination and will be our President and I’m gonna be jumping up and down in the line waiting to vote for her! However, if a paralell universe of pure stupidity moves through life as we know it, and I have to choose between the lesser of two evils– well, once again I will do it– and this time, for the first time in my life, I will vote Republican. I have to. And I’m not at all happy about it.

  39. Taylor Marsh thinks a McCain presidency would be an unmitigated tragedy, and while she does not believe in and won’t make a case for Obama, she’ll make one against McCain. It’s a defensible position, and I do not get the sense that career considerations have anything to do with it.

    Myself, I expect I’m going to have a hard time voting for either – but I’m not going to decide for some months. It may not matter after all.

    cellopaddy, on May 16th, 2008 at 1:32 am Said:
    What’s the opposite of misogynistic?

    The opposite of misogyny is (possibly irrational) love of women by men. Don’t know if there’s a word. If you mean what’s the word for gender-based hatred of men by women, that would be misandry.

  40. I am so heartbroken over this. The Right wing-nuts have all been waiting for this to happen. When Obama said he could get her votes but she can’t get his- I understood what he was saying. He was telling his supporters that they must threaten to not vote Dem unless he wins. Not one time has she done this, not one. Then they have portrayed her as out to destroy him to ensure her voters cast their vote for McCain, so she can run again. So here it is girls, if we fall in line we say it is ok , if we revolt she is blamed for his loss. What the hell are we to do?
    How would we feel if the African americans walked out on the party? what would Hillary do if she was us? This is our time to make a stand. If this party is going to represent the core values that we care about, we must take a stand.
    I am mad as hell and I’m not going to stand for this crap anymore.

  41. Have you considered supporting Cynthia McKinney?

    Not long ago, I was furious at her for attempting to split the Democratic Party. But Obama, Kos, Dean and company are the ones who have created the true split with their divisive and hate-filled rhetoric.

    I am not completely sold on McKinney. She has, shall we say, some oddities in her past. But…

    Her work on behalf of Katrina victims has been outstanding. She introduced impeachment legislation against Bush. She submitted the MLK records act.

    Those three resume items alone suffice to make me give her serious consideration.

    What’s more — she actually knows how to give a speech. She’s much better than Obama. Better than Hillary, truth be told.

    Besides, if the anti-Obama crowd turns to McKinney — well, how are the Kos Kids going to call us racists?

    McCain won’t be the disaster that Bush was. But I still cannot see myself voting for yet another Republican dimwit who doesn’t know the difference between Sunni and Shi’ite.

    A lot of you are old enough to recall the groundswell of support for John Anderson in 1980. Much of that support came from Democrats who could not tolerate the foreign policy decisions of Zbigniew Brzenzinski.

    And who is behind Obama now? Once, more, it’s Mr. Zbig.

    I have not yet fully made up my mind. But if Obama does win the nomination, I just may give my red-and-black website a spiffy “green” makeover.

  42. Well a vote for Obama is a vote for misogyny. Personally I can’t see why I would ever vote for misogyny. I may vote for McCain, because I someday want a party I can vote for again. If Obama wins, don’t count on ever having a female president or a Democratic Party of less than good old boys.

    People’s votes are all they have. Use them wisely.

  43. Contact these women and thank them!

    They can be reached at:

    HCFPinOH@gmail.com

    Encourage them to get donations to help Hillary!

  44. Would it help if Hillary ran as an independent?

  45. It’s still an awfully long way to go to November and who knows how the two candidates will then be perceived by the voters. Anything can happen between now and six months down the road.

    However, it is just so clear to me that Clinton with her experience, knowledge and guts would make a superb president.

    With Obama it’s not so clear…..it’s hard to see the real man. He hasn’t been around enough on the national stage for a clear understanding. The campaign trail, being so filtered through the media, makes it hard to really see the person. However, it’s obvious that he lacks experience.

    With Hillary, it seems you know what you will get. She’s been vetted as a leader and a public figure countlessly, in Ark, in Washington and in New York…..She is not perfect but she is strong, determined and committed. Even just on one platform, her commitment to work on a universal health care plan. That alone, a universal health care plan, is an unbelievable goal. It would really transform America…for the better. It would be huge.

    It’s always inspiring to read the comments on this blog and elsewhere; personally I feel so much better these last few days and feel positive about Hillary’s chances. Now that it’s getting closer to the end, her supporters….we…..our voices are being heard…and will keep getting heard……it’s time to end the mysogynistic bullshit once and for all.

    She is the best candidate and that fact alone is so hopeful for this country.

  46. And these ladies are wonderful. It is so inspiring to hear them. Thank you!!!!

  47. If a woman promises she’ll never leave her man, that is wonderful if her man is faithful and treats her right.

    But if he cheats on her and abuses her, that promise makes her a doormat. As long as she stays, he has no incentive to change.

    If the Democratic party doesn’t want your votes, maybe someone else does. That’s called negotiating leverage.

  48. Over at noquarter there is a post saying that there is a rumour that republicans have a tape of Michelle Obama railing against “whitey”in Wright’s church:

    http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/05/15/will-barack-throw-mama-from-the-train/

  49. At the present time, I can’t see myself voting for Obama. I’m 99.9% sure that I won’t do it. I will vote for down ticket candidates only. But I also will not vote for John McCain. And, yes, I am now officially an “unaffiliated” voter as of last week. For the record, I had been a registered Democrat since my first presidential election in 1980 adn ran as a Democrat for school board. So, this was a big deal for me,

  50. Alanis: That would be devastating to Obama if true but at The Confluence, we stay away from rumor and attempted character assassination. So, we won’t comment until we see the video.

  51. Bri: I don’t think it’s ethical to accept the assistance and resources of the Deomcratic party durin the primary only to lose and run against it in the same general election. That’s what Joe Lieberman did and we’ve seen the kind of person he turned out to be.

  52. I think we as women should boycott the election in November if Hillary is not the nominee. I think Hillary should tell the Democratic Party to go to hell and run as an Independent.

  53. I watched the clip and too did not feel convinced of the Obama sexism. It seemed the “sweetie” comment was not even mentioned. I think there is a case of sexism to be made, but felt it wasn’t.

    Oh yes, NOTA, I have voted for him or is it her more times than I can count. I think rather than going straight for McCain, go for an Independent Hillary. Voting for McCain or saying you will just sort of dismisses you – makes you irrelevant, but an Independent Hillary in the general will scare the hell out of the Obamabots. It will also make much better news.

    It does sound like the “sweetie” comment will get more traction today. It sounds like this is a long standing pattern, its just until now it was not recorded. I have watched the clip, and I felt it was double dismissive, dismissive because she was a women asking the “boys” a question, and dismissive to the whole issue of lost jobs, like it was not a real issue.

  54. My husband was watching O’Reilly last night and called me to the television. I caught the last part of it. He asked both women point blank if they would vote for McCain if Hillary wasn’t the nominee. The black lady spoke first and said, “If it comes to that.” O’Reilly had the most gleeful look on his face.

  55. We women need an organized protest against the media and the DNC’s misogyny – now before people get so discouraged they tune out. The lady in the video made a point I rarely hear – that we are never told that the percentage of AA’s in our country is actually small – less, even, than what she said only 12 -13 %. (Hispanics are a larger percentage than that.) Women make up more than half of the population in this country and in the Democratic party, but the party and the media has no problem dismissing us while acting like the AA vote is the make-or-break factor in this election.
    That dismissive attitude is also the case for most of corporate America. For years companies and networks have turned their backs on women, particularly older ones. They have dropped highly rated shows because the viewers were not young and/or male. (Murder She Wrote was one of CBS’s most highly rated shows when it was dropped.) Large department stores like Saks dropped their petite line of clothing because it attracted more older women and they did not want this age group as their customer base. The stores tried to say that it was because of lax sales, but the truth is this has been a growth market in recent years. (Half of women are 5’4″ and under which qualifies as petite.) According to the NYTimes:
    “….petite departments gained a reputation for traditional — some would say frumpy — career-oriented clothing. Chic looks, clothing executives said, never made the leap from regular sizes to petite. So the very word petite became synonymous with many women who shopped there — working women over the age 50.”
    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/28/business/28petite.html?adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1210936736-uPeh8VV42i81Yr7UJ8KH8Q&pagewanted=print

    Women protested and Saks relented, but they still do not carry a lot of these sizes. Meanwhile stores like Chicos are making a bundle selling to this large and mostly affluent demographic. (Older Americans are the most affluent group in the country from what I have read. And they buy stuff.)

    And just look at movies. The industry continually targets males and ignores females. There are very few female movie critics to balance the male world view that dominates this industry (is it the physical requirements?). Older actresses find it hard to get roles, while older males thrive (think Harrison Ford).

    We women need to stop allowing ourselves to be invisible. We have passively stood by for years and allowed this kind of treatment. Research shows that we make more than half the purchases in this country and vote at higher rates than do males. We also watch as much or more television. As for older women, we are a huge percentage of the population and we still shop, go to movies if we can find any we like, vote, etc. In fact we vote in LARGER numbers than do younger people. We have a lot of power if we choose to use it. There is no rational excuse for the Democratic party, networks, Hollywood, or corporations to ignore us. They are simply biased against women and older people. The best way to wake them up is to let them know that we will no longer be taken for granted. We need organized boycotts and other types of protests if we want to see things change. Now is the time to speak up. A lot of women I know are finally waking up to the fact that we are treated as non-entities and I think would be willing to protest. If we hit these guys where it hurts – in their wallets – they will take notice. We need to refuse to donate to the DNC or watch NBC/MSNBC and let them know why. (mediamatters.org has contact info.) This will have an even larger impact if there is also a more organized effort – petitions, etc.

  56. If Hillary is not the nominee her supporters must vote for McCain to give the DNC a clear message. The DNC has been overtaken by the Obamalots who feel they can step on us and expect it to all go away.
    Four years is a hiccup in the political world. McCain will be older, and if not Hillary, some other QUALIFIED nominee will be able to take over. Re: the Supreme Court- let the young idealists and Naral whores fight their own battles. We have done the heavy work and are now dismissed for the new shiny empty product. The treatment Senator Clinton has gotten has been outrageous, we must band together and hand the DNC a defeat in November unless Hillary is the nominee.

  57. If Obama is the nominee, please vote for him. Not voting is the same as voting for McCain, and nobody here is so dense as to require a mathematical demonstration of this.

    Having said that, what’s happened in 2008 *has* to be a career-ender for many people, and that’s where we should turn our attention. The presidency is important enough that I’ll put an asshole in there if it guarantees a better set of ideas and priorities than the alternative. Congress, likewise. But then there’s a whole bunch of lower offices, and more importantly party positions (starting with Howard Dean), whose current inhabitants don’t deserve a political future because of what they’ve done. Identify them and target them, like the Israelis did after Munich but with milder methods.

    Those of you saying that McCain is OK because we can win in 2012 should consider this alternative: get a (horribly flawed and undeserving) Democratic president now, get control of the party, and then you own him in 2012 and it’s your party thereafter. Probably too late for Hillary personally, but we need to take a deep breath and say that it’s never been about her. The other side are the personalists.

  58. I’m voting against Obama – I don’t care who is running against him. A message must be sent.

  59. Rich, our votes belong to us. And it’s Obama’s responsibility to ask for our votes and convince us that he’s worthy.

    Me? I’m never going to vote for John McCain. I’ll be voting for Hillary Clinton.

    It’s the Democratic Party’s responsibility to nominate a viable candidate — Among countless other criteria, it should be someone not already so used up that his most fevered supporters have noticed how “tired” he is.

    Since the votes of 2 major states have been erased, our voice is muted. And it seems that only the threat of a walk-out has any power. We’d be fools if we didn’t use it.

  60. I am SO LOOKING FORWARD to voting against Obama this fall.

    If that means I vote for McCain, so be it!

    After all, McCain will be a HUGE improvement over W.

  61. I’m from Maine, and we hardly matter at all. But, If Obama is the nominee, I will hold my nose and cast my vote for McCain. Even worse, since Tom Allen announced his superdelegate support for Obama, I will mark my ballot for Susan Collins. I know it sounds horrible, but we have to send a LOUD message to the media and the DNC that “we’re mad as hell and we aren’t going to take it anymore!”

  62. I don’t agree with the idea of giving in, voting for Obama, and then expecting to make changes in all his underlings in the party so this doesn’t happen again. I’m sorry, this is about respect for women, Latin@s, the working class. And they aren’t going to respect us if we toe the line, AGAIN, and vote for a wanker, AGAIN.

    That’s just silly. Don’t vote, vote 3rd party, vote for McCain, but don’t vote for Obama. How will the party ever learn to take us ‘special’ interests seriously if we don’t stand up for ourselves with the only thing we have, our votes? The whole bloody system has to go, and yes, we need to target the little fish as well, the local Democrats who let the caucuses get out of hand, the SDs and party leaders who have enabled this stupidity. But trying to do that, and at the same time voting in THEIR choice of leader is just futile.

  63. Katie: Your vote is indeed your own, but if you would trust Clinton with the fate of the world, you may wish to ponder her electoral advice. Maybe she’s correct about that, too.

  64. (sigh) Rich —

    It is the official policy of this blog that Hillary Clinton will be the Democratic Nominee.

    We believe that she is the only qualified, electable candidate still running for the nomination.

    This is not a stealth mission. This is the mission of our lives. How will Dean and the others believe in the seriousness of Obama’s electability problem if we don’t make it absolutely clear?

    Having stolen the millions of votes from Florida and Michigan, they don’t have an absolute right to mine.

  65. Rich in Pa,
    If we want to get rid of Dean we have to withhold our vote for Obama or vote McCain. There’s no way these people are going to be punished unless Obama loses. Obama winning the election will tell them that what they are doing is OK.

  66. Ga6th: I’m pretty sure that reverses the order of importance of the jobs.

  67. NO VOTE for Obama

    NO VOTE For McCain

    Write Hillary In!

    Here’s the website for info on your state:

    http://www.writehillaryin.com/

    In my state (FL) a campaign has to ubit paperwork, pay a fee to get “Hillary Clinton” counted in the vote count for the Electoral College, otherwise, I’d be a vote in protest.

    I don’t care. If we lived throughb 8 years of Bush, I can live 4 more of McCain. But my vote belongs to me. And my vote does not deserve to be cast to candidate and a party who has deserted me and all women.

    Remember what Hillary said in 1995 China, Women’s Rights Is Human Rights.

  68. Rich in PA,
    I appreciate your concern but don’t get the logic of your statement “consider this alternative: get a (horribly flawed and undeserving) Democratic president now, get control of the party, and then you own him in 2012 and it’s your party thereafter”

    HOW?? With all these votes we’ve cast (17 Million at last count), without Obama even becoming the nominee, already we have zero control over the party. How will we get it by SUPPORTING him for four more years in whatever he does?
    Did supporting Bush from 2000-2004 help us get any more ‘control’ in 2004?

  69. I am hoping that Hillary can still prevail, but it’s beginning to look like the DNC will not allow that.

    I refuse to vote for Obama OR McCain–I live in TX, where write-in votes only count if the candidate has declared his/her candidacy–so that’s not an option for me. I am leaning toward voting Green Party, especially should Cynthia McKinney get the nomination, and I would encourage others to do that for several reasons. A: The Republicans have been worse on women’s rights than the Democrats. B: McKinney is an AA female, so they can’t claim we’re racists. C: Voting for the Green Party nominee makes it easier to track numbers–it’s a minor party here in TX, so a sudden influx of female voters would certainly be noticed.

    Most importantly, I believe that neither Obama nor McCain has what it takes to lead our country in its current situation. Should McCain win, I would expect to see Rs crushed by disillusioned voters in 2010, and the same goes for the Ds if led by Obama. If Hillary can’t win the presidency, then I’ll settle for an increased majority in the legislative branch. Besides, if we send a CLEAR message to Ds, one that says women will no longer be taken for granted, perhaps a few of those D legislators will GROW SPINES.

    Btw, I’ve been a Democrat since 1972, so this has not been an easy decision for me to make. My last public stand for the Ds will be when I sign in as a delegate for Hillary Clinton at our state convention on June 6.

    Just my 2 cents.

  70. I couldn’t find the actual letter but here’s a link to a group of Massachusetts democratic women leaders, some being superdelegates, who are petitioning the DNC and Dean to count FL and MI. It was discussed on NPR yesterday. This is indicative of a movement in the party. Let’s keep the momentum going through Tuesday and on to Denver.

    http://www.countthevotes.net/id1.html

  71. BTW, I’m writing in Hillary.

  72. I know you guys will hate me, but seeing two Democrats go on O’Reilly and diss Democrats was pretty terrible to see. Ugh.

  73. I guess I can’t do the being held hostage thing anymore.

    I can’t afford to see a doctor, I’m trapped in a job that’s killing me because I need to survive, winter is a nightmare because I can’t afford a car or gas and public transportation is terrible here, I can’t bear to turn on the $$ media in my own country because everything I hear makes me want to vomit, and every higher up where I work is male while the invisible female admins down here do all the grunt work while being told how terribly busy the higher ups are and can’t be bothered with the million details we need to take care of… And yet, I’m threatened and held hostage for my vote, told that I’m what’s wrong with the world if I don’t crawl back to the Democratic party and mind my place. Indeed, I should be grateful that the Democratic party allows me the privilege to vote for such an Awesomely Awesome Product.

    I can’t do it anymore. I can’t. We’re not moving towards solutions to any of the basic problems in our country and with the success of the big money marketing campaign of hip Brand Obama, we’re moving further away. I can’t do it.

    I can’t do the held hostage thing anymore.

  74. Oh, Tabbycat, yes, I understand: “it would be hard for me to see myself as invisible but then vote for the ones who erased me.”

  75. Young Judith – the “New Democrats” dissed us a long time ago.

    I feel exactly like the women on the clip.

  76. @Ann On: “The misogyny in this campaign is not an accident. It is a deliberate strategy,….” You are absolutely correct. The markers were all there from the beginning.

    And you can rest assured that David Axelrod WILL rot in hell. Axelrod! Pig is thy name.

  77. I have written several times about Hillary running
    as an Independent. I see today there are several
    more people saying this. I am wondering why
    more people are not picking up on this as a viable
    idea. Possible obstacles to this happening are:
    1. Hillary wouldn’t agree. Bur maybe if we started
    a movement we could draft her. There are so
    many people in this country who feel as we do –
    women, working class, Latina(o), who feel as if
    our vote has been taken away. Hillary might be
    persuaded to do this for us.
    2.Logistics, money for Independent run. I don’t
    know what this would entail. Does anyone else?
    Is there a time issue?
    3.Dividing Dem party, taking votes away as in
    Nader. Well, isn’t this already happening, big
    time. At least then we would be heard, and taken
    seriously. By both parties. We might get a new
    party out of it. One that works, wins elections, and
    represents the people of this country. Isn’t it
    time for that. I really believe we could win, because
    Hillary already has a following of over 17 million
    voters, and not from caucuses.
    4. She can’t win. I believe she can. And if she
    doesn’t it’s really the only way we know we would
    be heard, and taken seriously. It’s also the only
    the rest of the country, those not on blogs, could
    become part of the movement. It’s really the most
    democratic way. Needs of the Dem party are less
    important than those of the people. They are
    supposed to be serving us, not vice versa.

    Riverdaughter, I don’t see where the Dem party
    has helped Hillary at all. Isn’t that what we’ve
    been talking about all this time, how she’s been
    thrown under the bus by them.
    Biggest thing to me is Obama has stolen this
    election, and is being enabled by Dem party.
    It’s being ignored, accepted as inevitable, as if
    “well, of course we know that’s how elections work
    in our country, they get stolen.”
    That’s crazy. Where’s the outrage?
    I don’t see that Hillary owes the Dem party
    anything. They owe her and Bill for their time,
    money, and they’ve thrown them both under the
    bus. They’ve ignored her petitions about voter
    fraud.
    only chance.
    Right now they’re so afraid of Obama voters
    they’ve forgotten we exist. I believe Independent
    run is our only chance to be heard, to take back
    democracy, for us and rest of country.

  78. If Obama is teh nominee, I will vote for McCain … and I will give true blue progressives good reasons for doing so.

    But that’s a long IF, at this writing.

  79. I agree wtih the AA woman who spoke last night on Fox. Women & Latino voters represent a larger group than AA voters. I am an AA woman who will vote McCain.
    I must send a strong message.

  80. Have you considered supporting Cynthia McKinney?

    I have. I’d rather give my vote to the Green party if the Dem party doesn’t want to earn it.

  81. […] If you don’t listen to our voice now, you will hear from us later.” Riverdaughter has the video of the appearance of two of these women on Bill O’Reilly.  They held up their email addresses: […]

  82. […] states. If you don’t listen to our voice now, you will hear from us later.” Riverdaughter has the video of the appearance of two of these women on Bill O’Reilly.  They held up their email addresses: […]

  83. madmong, can you show me Obama’s policies and plans re: women’s issues? I don’t think he even has that on the Web site we’re always told to check in lieu of actually getting an explanation?

  84. A vote for Obama is a vote for misogyny and the boys club. This is how the Democratic party and its frontrunner treat the base?

    A vote for McCain isn’t much better, but that’s what I must do.

    It’s for the future. The Democratic party must never ever be allowed to do this again, and it must pay a price.

    I can handle it for 4 more years, for a better future for us all.

  85. Don’t be a fool ladies. It would be stupid to just not vote for either candidate….it says ABSOLUTELY nothing. I would never vote for obama under any circumstances even if Hillary is VP choice. HIllary is the only candidate who is best qualified and preparted. If she doesn’t get in, i’m voting for McCain.

  86. (squinting)

    A large number of posters on this blog are saying that

    McCain and the Bush Republican party are good for womans causes

    I’m sorry, this is just wrong. I’m not saying that it hasn’t been said by someone. But it certainly hasn’t been said by a “large number of posters on this blog” — (I’m sorry) it just hasn’t.

    Please don’t bring straw dog arguments to this blog.

  87. I support 100% those who refuse to support Obama in the general. I do want to point out there are many choices desides McCain. There is the Libertarians, Greens, Nader, NOTA etc.

    I would argue supporting some of these other options would be a more noticeable statement. With McCain there is no real way to “see” the statement, with the others it will be much more clear.

  88. I love this Corner of SANITY! These comments are such a breeze of fresh air! THANK YOU LADIES!

    Will someone explain how Obama’s surrogates get away with their blatant misogyny and Obama makes remarks like: “Her claws are coming out”. “She’s lilkeable Enough”. “She MAY stay in the race as long as she wants” (gee, thanks!)…with impunity.
    The media do not dare play the race card–there are LAWS in place for that. And Imus got fired for his racist (not sexist) remarks agaisnt the black college girl athletes. But it’s ‘free for all’ for the MEDIA MISOGYNISTS to spit out their sexist venom against HIllary–with impunity! WE MUST ENACT ANTI-HATE LAWS FOR WOMEN. SEXISM MUST BECOME AS REPREHENSIBLE AS RACISM.

    In the meantime, GOOD LUCK TO YOU LADIES in your fight against OBAMYOPIA!

  89. BARACK’S GLORIOUS FEMINIST ACCOMPLISHMENTS:

    1. Obama’s was the ONLY vote in 96 against the prohibition of Sex Shops near schools and churches in Chicago!;

    2. Obama voted in favour of early parole for sex offenders!

    It’s true, sweetie!

    and

    3. Obama campaigned actively in KENYA with Dick Morris last year (and wrote speech) on behalf of his islamist-marxist COUSIN ODINGA who advocates SHARIA LAW and Chastity provisions for girls and women. After riots last December in Kenya by Odinga’s rapist-gangs that left hundreds of women maimed and raped, Odinga has become President! (Kikuyu, former Pres. had told Barack to stop interfering in his sovereign state’s affairs!)

    Suggestion: Barack Hussein Obama V-President of Kenya on the ticket with his Cousin Odinga! Now that’s a real DREAM TICKET!!! Right, sweetie?!

  90. so glad to get your e-mail address on orilley show. i am for you all 100% per cent. i will not vote for obama. and if the dems. in fl. don’t let my vote for hillary count for her , i will change parties. i called the office of the dems. last thursday and told them how i felt. the lady told me , do not change parties. to just stay home on voting day. and let obama win. how dare her to tell me this. i have her phone # if anyone wants it. just e-mail me and i will give it to you. i am so tired of how the dems. are doing us ladies. thanks.

  91. I finally feel like I’m not alone. I’m a woman in Nebraska and I have said for months that I would NOT vote for Obama. I changed my party affiliation this time around (yes, I was a life-long republican) only because I believe Hillary Clinton is the PERSON for the job!!! I trust her and she cares about America. However, if Hillary doesn’t get the nomination, I will be active in campaigning for McCain.

  92. I support Hillary with all my being. She CAN DO!!!
    However, if the good ole varmint boys/gals being allegedly paid off by Barack’s contributors’ donations to force her out of the game and deny her the nomination, they’re not as sorry as they’re gonna be.
    First they pressure the super delegates whose states Obama won to vote for him even if they do not want to, then they pressure the super delegates whose states Hillary Clinton won to vote for him, then they pressure super delegates in states that are ABOUT TO VOTE to vote for him before the states’ votes are counted, and then they want us the ACTUAL VOTERS to hand over the white house to the DUD of a presumptive nominee.
    Those super delegates and their puppeteer want to be president vicariously. They think they will have the run of the white house if the guy who only speaks “if he writes his lines”, and remembers them without halting and evading, gets elected.
    Well not as long as I have a vagina.
    And speaking of vaginas, he is the worst political prostitute. He is for CHANGE, but he is backed and supported by dynosaurs like teddy who couldn’t deliver MA, and loser dodd with less than 5% of primary votes, and hopeless jackal richardson of NM who is looking for his next assignment (whose state Hillary won). Where’s the change??? And his camp/surrogates say there will be blood in the streets “if the super delegates TAKE THE NOMINATION AWAY FORM HIM”?. And after all that, we should cum-by-ya?
    Barack is interested in the TITLE of president, not the JOB of President.
    So the line about ‘a woman scorned’ really means WRATH to you dnc who cut off your noses to spite your faces. You;ll be begging us to come back next time, but by that time your BRAND will have become worse than dog food.

    Please understand Hillary could ‘work her heart out trying to get him elected for party unity, but she has NO CONTROL over me and like-minded voters once you have engineered her departure form the primary.

  93. Let me add that BOTH my parents are of African descent.

  94. I too will be voting for McCain if Hillary doesn’t get dem nom. But what about her running as an independent? The dem party has already thrown hrc under the bus so what does she owe them?

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