• Tips gratefully accepted here. Thanks!:

  • Recent Comments

    William on Brief observations, Hillary Cl…
    William on Brief observations, Hillary Cl…
    Catscatscats on Brief observations, Hillary Cl…
    Catscatscats on Brief observations, Hillary Cl…
    Ivory Bill Woodpecke… on Brief observations, Hillary Cl…
    Ivory Bill Woodpecke… on Brief observations, Hillary Cl…
    riverdaughter on Brief observations, Hillary Cl…
    Sweet Sue on Brief observations, Hillary Cl…
    Sweet Sue on Brief observations, Hillary Cl…
    Propertius on Brief observations, Hillary Cl…
    Catscatscats on Brief observations, Hillary Cl…
    William on Brief observations, Hillary Cl…
    William on Brief observations, Hillary Cl…
    HerstoryRepeating on Brief observations, Hillary Cl…
    Catscatscats on There are some days…
  • Categories

  • Tags

    abortion Add new tag Afghanistan Al Franken Anglachel Atrios bankers Barack Obama Bernie Sanders big pharma Bill Clinton cocktails Conflucians Say Dailykos Democratic Party Democrats Digby DNC Donald Trump Donna Brazile Economy Elizabeth Warren feminism Florida Fox News General Glenn Beck Glenn Greenwald Goldman Sachs health care Health Care Reform Hillary Clinton Howard Dean John Edwards John McCain Jon Corzine Karl Rove Matt Taibbi Media medicare Michelle Obama Michigan misogyny Mitt Romney Morning Edition Morning News Links Nancy Pelosi New Jersey news NO WE WON'T Obama Obamacare OccupyWallStreet occupy wall street Open thread Paul Krugman Politics Presidential Election 2008 PUMA racism Republicans research Sarah Palin sexism Single Payer snark Social Security Supreme Court Terry Gross Texas Tim Geithner unemployment Wall Street WikiLeaks women
  • Archives

  • History

  • RSS Paul Krugman: Conscience of a Liberal

  • The Confluence

    The Confluence

  • RSS Suburban Guerrilla

  • RSS Ian Welsh

    • Open Thread
      As usual, feel free to comment here on topics unrelated to recent posts.
  • Top Posts

  • Advertisements

Wednesday: The voter’s have spoken, the bastards.

I’m listening to WNYC for the past hour and not one word about West Virginia. It’s been pledge drive, earthquake, cyclone and Palestine. Nada about Obama’s humiliating defeat in West Virginia where he lost 67-25.7. Hmmm, let’s see, that’s a 41.3 point difference. Not pretty for our presumptive nominee.

I broke down and caught a bit of CNN last night when Bob Casey was cocky about how the party will be unified and, yeah, Hillary supporters *say* they won’t turn out in the fall for Obama but he’s heard this kind of thing before and they’ll fall in line by November, they always do.

Oh, Really?

I got a moment of deja vu for a second there. It seemed familiar. Sort of like, “I can’t understand why you’re so mad. You’ve got no reason to be. Get over it.” or “You’re nothing without me. Where else are you going to go?” Yeah, keep on like that, Bob. Every time one of you mouth off that we’ll come crawling back instead of apologizing to us for calling us racists and stupid old women, I get a little more determined to teach you a lesson you will *never* forget.

If we’ve learned one thing from West Virginia, it’s that voters do not like to be told that their vote is meaningless. They don’t want to hear it is over before they have a chance to vote. And they overwhelmingly like Hillary in states where they snobby DINKS and AA’s don’t have a critical mass for Obama. There are many more regular working people, even working creative class, who do not think Obama is ready to be president. There’s nothing racist about that. Last night, she won the majority of college educated in WV as well. So, apparently, not all of the “smart” people are part of Obama’s fan base.

Donna Brazile and her rules and bylaws committee seem determined to drag the Democratic party to the brink. Her insistence that the magic number if 2025 instead of 2209 is a clear signal that she has no intention of letting FL and MI delegates that Hillary won go into her column so that they have some kind of critical mass to the rest of the states that voted for her. And that’s the most evil part of her whole scheme. Without those delegates, the rest of us Hillary voters might as well have stayed home. It doesn’t matter that we live in the most crucial states for the party in the fall. They have decided for us.

I don’t know how that decision can stand before someone blows a carotid and pushes Donna off a cliff but the Rules and Bylaws committee shouldn’t get too comfortable with the idea that they can get away with it. And if I were Obama and had any hope of winning in November, I’d walk back that haka right now.

In other news:

Anglachel goes over the West Virginia results and marvels at the stupidity of the Democratic party in Presence and Absence and WV Exit Polls.
Taylor Marsh has Donna’s number in Michigan and Florida. I’m getting the feeling that Donna is getting to be really unpopular.


47 Responses

  1. Nebraska voted in their primary too and Obama won by just 2% (49-47) compared to the caucus results of 68-32%.


  2. That Donna B. she’s a piece of work. What a bitch.

    It’s funny to feel so confident when “the other side” feels invincible. I keep stopping for reality checks. But, I just don’t see how she can lose the nomination.

    Well, I can. But — it won’t be because she gave up. Up will be because the personal-greed and cowardice of the Super Delegates is stronger than their commitment to public service.

    It’s truly in their hands. As Hillary said in her speech last night.

    Our job is to make it easier for them to choose her than him.

    Can we possibly make a difference in Oregon?

  3. I just had a scary thought — what if I’d made that $10-a-point pledge last night? I’d be out $400 ….

    That was a heck of a win!

  4. Jake, How many of those 17 wins were caucuses?
    BTW, how did Barry do in CA? How about NY? NJ? Ohhh, so none of the traditional Democratic states with millions of Democratic voters are wins for Barry.

  5. Bob Casey was cocky about how the party will be unified and, yeah, Hillary supporters *say* they won’t turn out in the fall for Obama but he’s heard this kind of thing before and they’ll fall in line by November, they always do.

    He’s cocky because there was so much shouting initially about Democrats supporting his senate run but in the end, even Planned Parenthood and NARAL were doing the “we won’t argue FOR Casey, but we’ll argue AGAINST Santorum” cop-out.

    Death by a thousand cuts.

  6. My sister-in-law lives in NH. She doesn’t pay too much attention to politics, but she likes Hillary and thinks Obama is creepy. She says that her friends keep asking her, “Where did this guy come from? He appears on the scene, no one has ever heard of him, and suddenly he’s the nominee?” I’m willing to bet this is typical of the reactions of regular working people who haven’t followed all this as closely as we have. But they are mad too–especially the women.

    My mother’s women friends in Indiana are mad too. Here in MA, activist Democratic women are really PO’d at Kerry and Kennedy. If the Howard and Donna and the rest of the DNC keep ignoring women, who make up more than half of the voters, they are in for a real trouncing in November. I can’t believe these lemmings are determined to follow The Precious over the cliff. You’d think they’d have some sense of self-preservation.

  7. Jake,

    Delegates include both “pledged” (a misnomer) and automatic delegates, AKA “superdelegates”. The automatic delegates are going to decide this. The nomination goes to the person who reaches 2209 delegates first. Obama can’t announce himself the winner, unfortunately for him and his followers. The automatic delgates can change their votes. An endorsement is not set in stone. This will be decided in August. I can wait. You need to learn to relax and go with the flow.

  8. With regard to Donna, I thought she appeared a little less emotional last night. Clearly, someone talked to her about on-air temper tantrums. A nomination that has to be stolen is quite a nomination indeed.

    You know, my guess is that the astute politicians in our party recognize we’re going to lose the election in the fall with Obama at the head of the ticket. I bet they also believe we will increase our majorities in both the House and the Senate. I bet they think McCain is better than Bush, and they’re okay with it.

    Some days I think I will be the good yellow dog that I am and vote for Obama; afterall, the District’s three electoral votes will go for him no matter what. Other days, days like today, I feel like I should teach the party a lesson it won’t soon forget.

  9. Caucuses disenfranchise voters. Just check out the caucuses vs. primary results in TX, WA, and now Nebraska.

  10. Idaho will also have a “meaningless” primary soon.

  11. One sure way to turn off voters in November is to continue to suggest that working class and rural voters are just too unsophisticated and out of touch with the rest of the “mainstream” electorate and are racist to boot. If Hillary has to arm wrestle her way to the nomination I am with her. Obama is a loser on the national stage with this attitude since the polls in WVa proved that she pulled college students, the professional class and the blue collar voter as well. Somehow she is resonating while he fades. It will take a herculean effort for him to win back those “racist, unsophisticated voters” who can readily see through his sham.

  12. We care more about voters than delegates.

  13. “Politico’s Jim Vandehi Shills for Michelle “Camille” Obama”


    With link to the video….

    Michelle Obama and hubby are very hurt and it’s all Hillary Clinton’s fault….No VP for her!!

  14. DC, if they nominate this guy, I suggest you teach them a lesson. I will.

  15. Right now, if Kentucky can turn out AT LEAST 500,000 voters, at 60-70% votes for Hillary, she’s beat Obama with the POPULAR VOTE, not including FL & MI, add those, and she’s got at least 500,000-700,000 votes over Obama.

    CAUCUSES are just like what they sound. KA-KA!

  16. jake: Argue all you like. In the end the choice must come down as to who is the more electable candidate. Who can get out there and beat McBush. Obama is not that candidate. The GOP is going to fry him with his ties to the Chicago machine, the Rezko connection, the issue with Rev. Wright is not going away, his lack of experience and the unwise comments his wife has uttered which will be one of their central themes about his patriotism. They will imply a lot of sinister connects with ties to Hamas. Are all of these things fair? Possibly not but look at the Swift Boaters. He will be hung out to dry. So far, he is an unknown.

    Caucuses, particularly when choosing a presidential candidate, are undemocratic. They are not available to everyone. Aside from the hoopla, Obama is a weak candidate even if McCain is just another continuation of Bush. The GOP has already singed Hillary for years. She is not an unknown. She is a fighter. The DNC and supers will make the decision, if they have any hope of winning, of putting that consideration at the top of their list.

    You can’t hope to win if all you have is a dazzling candidate whose message is vague at best. They will obliterate him in the general and the majority of the population will turn it over to McCain because of that. Realism is the name of the game.

  17. The Republicans will crucify the Democratic Party if they nominate Obama. Everyone will know they robbed the nomination from a proven winner only for the following reasons: money, misogyny, and fear of the media. I mean, Obama’s empty suit of a candidacy and his appalling demographic numbers don’t give them any other legitimate excuses.

    The supers might be scared of upsetting the hyper-sensitive media and OFB now, but that ain’t nothing compared to the tsunami-like backlash they’ll get from Clinton’s demographic base, especially women, once the media and GOP reveal how the DNC rigged the nomination and how Obama paid off his supers to basically throw the election.

  18. (I guess my comment didn’t come through)

    I wanted to add that the media and the GOP will tell the truth (the nomination process was rigged; Obama paid off the supers) if Obama’s the nominee. I mean, that media narrative will turn on a dime in the GE.

  19. Davidson, I wonder what happened? I don’t see it in the filters?

  20. Pardon the tongue in cheek portion but hear me out.

    While I am gald to see WV in the win colunm I think it is a bit of an anomoly for the big picture we need.

    The subliminal results may have been the cause

    Michelle and Barack (obama) = MichBar Obama

    The voters in WV realize that Obama is the bar michigans vote candidate.

    Contrast that with Clinton’s subliminal WV powers.

    Hillary and Bill (Clinton) = HillBill Clinton

    It was never going to be close as everyone knew but the meme cannot be the lower class or Appalacian white American will not vote for Obama to succeed with SDs. SDs are as scared of that as ‘the reason’ for the long term health of the party as anything.

    The reason has to be WOMEN not race.

    In other words the party will not throw long term AA vote out fo keep the WV vote that won’t vote for Gore, Kerry, or Obama.

    Oregon would be very compelling but WV “DEMS” are just as embarrasing to the party of late as they were to Obama last night. No offense to WV but its operative in the nominating exercise and to the DNC.

    If HIllary wants to get it the race meme must die and the women meme must be elevated. It’s the real reason HIllary can win and he probably will not. The race meme is NOT good for the party even if it is good for Hillary winning the white house.

    SDs have both things to worry about. While the subliminal part of this is obviously tongue in cheek, if we really want to see our girl take the prize we need to focus away from race which helps Obama and focus on Women which helps Clinton.

    Still it was a HIllbilly butt whooping to be sure.

  21. By the way, I’m weeding troll-ish comments.

  22. I keep hearing from the Dem “leaders” how in November the party will come together and rally behind Obama (there’s that assumption by them all that he’s already clinched the deal) to ensure victory in November.

    They may be right. The Democratic Party, or what remains of the party, will likely fall into line. It will not, however, include me, nor many like me. I am now a member of the “Decline To State” party (aka Non-affiliated or Independent) and I’ll vote for whomever I damn well please. Which will NOT, by the way, be His Lordship Obama.

    I hope every Hillary Clinton supporter who feels betrayed and abandoned by the Democratic Party does what I did and becomes an Independent. We’ll see who’s left in the Party to submit to the will of the leaders!

  23. Jake~
    There are 800 superdelegates (per timmeh last night) who have not voted. Now according to timmeh, they haven’t thrown their votes to Hillary.
    BUT….they have not thrown their votes to Obama either. What do you make of that?
    I make of it their are keeping their votes close to the chest so that when it comes time to actually count the votes…………… they will – in fact – vote for Hillary as she is the One Who Can Beat McBush.

    Neither has won yet. Keep thinking on this.

  24. It all boils down to this and we all know it: win with Hillary in November or lose with Obama.

  25. BTW:
    I know several Obama supporters who say they will vote Hillary in Nov. if she is the candidate. They know she is capable and strong and will put this country right.
    I personally know NO Clinton supporters who will vote Obama in Nov. Not one.

    IIRC, the Precious indicated months ago, just the opposite would occur. He can’t even get that right.

  26. Melanie: That’s quite a statement coming from you. I think the Party has no idea about the depth of feeling out here. It certainly hasn’t been able to take the lesson the voters continually have been sending them in one primary state after another.

  27. I re-read this on the train coming in to work this morning:

    I probably first saw it here, but just in case you haven’t read it . . .

  28. @KB: I clicked on “submit” and it the page just went blank on me. It happened once before and the comment went through but I guess not this time. Doesn’t matter.

    Gosh, I’m downright giddy today. All I could do was laugh as I caught glimpses of the morning “news” shows (I’ve sworn off the media, including the papers, since late January; exception: the BBC).

  29. czech

    I basically agree with your irreverent point. Women must make the DEMS fear overall defection just as the party fears AA defection. Race is a loser.

    Without that fear they are trading a cycle after cycle bloc vote for a split vote and simply won’t have the courage to pick the most likely GE winner.. I agree a portion of the vote that will not vote for Obama in WV probably did not vote for Gore or Kerry either. However that is not even close to the margin Hillary won by.

    But in state after state the swell in DEM ranks in primaries is women in addition to Obama’s swell in youth and AA turnout.

    I think SweetSue has it as to what he SD role should be, but the party may be willing to risk Obama in order to not risk losing AAs for a few cycles. We need to make it clear that the greater risk is women.

  30. DC, he is going to lose the GE, and because you understand statistics, I am quite certain you see this. I suspected his electability problem as early as Missouri. And, over time, it’s become far more than a suspician. There really is no excuse for nominating someone who can not win versus a candidate who is all but certain to win.

  31. If Obama claims victory before the convention and the SD’s and DNC SD’s have aided his faux status forcing Hillary and we centrist out, we should boycott the convention, I will.

  32. I hope Hillary pulls off an upset in Oregon. Bill stumped for Hillary in Oregon’s rural cities and towns on Monday and Tuesday. I volunteered at the Klamath Falls event and everyone, including men, who said they were voting for Hillary in the primary also said they would not vote for Obama in the general.

  33. There are so many angry people. Everywhere I turn people are saying “who the hell is this guy?” and vowing not to vote for him.

    So this Rules and Bylaws Committee meets May 31. I think I heard Donna B. mention the location last night on CNN, but I can’t remember what she said. Wondering if there are going to be any protests outside of the meeting location.

  34. I’m all for keeping Obama out of the White House, but how do we get rid of Dean and the DNC hierarchy that enabled this mess? Also, who decides who the SD’s are? Who has the authority to get rid of caucuses and open primaries? If the Democratic Party has any chance of winning the future, changes (real ones, not Obama ones) need to be made.

  35. hey conflucians!

    i love the word trounce. and today i shall use it with great frequency and great delight.

    does anybody know where i can find reliable stats on the popular vote? i’m wondering how wv specifically affects if and how it’s projected going forward? thanks in advance.

    and hey Salty, you almost stole my name!


  36. wac for hillary: The best way to get rid of Dean and Brazille will be for Obama to lose. They’ve staked a whole lot on his win. If he loses, they’ll be toast.

  37. CC, she said that she did not know the exact hotel location, but it will happen in DC and will be publically transmitted to the airwaves (I’m assuming C-SPAN.)

  38. I hope Hillary pulls off an upset in Oregon too. My understanding is Oregon is as Green as California:

    Obama is not a Green candidate, for all his talk of global warming, his solutions are the sort of diluted solutions you get from Republicans or complete pushovers like Bingaman, whose climaticide prevention bill was almost as bad as Bush’s business as usual.
    (Obama surrogates: like Bingaman do not push for real eco solutions: Kennedy is against Wind power, Richardsons NM depends on Nuke funding, Daschle is an ethanol lobbyist, etc)

    Clinton is on the environment committee and gets SD support from eco movers and shakers like these SDs:

    New Jersey’s New Jersey’s Gov. Corzine Seeks Wind Farm Off East Coast
    May 9 (Bloomberg) — New Jersey Governor Jon Corzine wants his state to be the first in the U.S. Northeast to build an electricity-generating wind farm off the Atlantic coast.

    SF Mayor Gavin Newsome
    A while back (early 2006) Newsom announced that the City will explore the possibility of generating power from the tidal flow under the Golden Gate Bridge and launched a $150,000 feasibility study to examine the tidal energy project, which could generate up to 35 megawatts of power, according to the Electric Power Research Institute (EPRI) and the San Francisco Public Utilities Commission.

    (About the media/opposition party Clinton Derangement Syndrome, Newsome said “They say dogs don’t bark at parked cars.” The mayor concluded, “People don’t get upset about people who aren’t about change, they get upset about people who are about change.”)
    Rep. Jay Inslee Introduces Feed-In Tariff Legislation
    Based on the feed-in tariff policy that has enabled Germany to achieve 55% of the world’s installed solar capacity and to provide 14% of its electricity supply from renewable sources, Inslee’s Clean Energy Buy-Back Act would guarantee U.S. producers of clean energy connection to the grid and predetermined rates from utilities for their power.

    It is the first ever proposal in Congress that would implement what Inslee is calling a performance-based incentive (PBI) policy, also known as a feed-in tariff, which has been proven to be an effective means of increasing adoption of renewable-energy technologies in Germany, Spain, France and other countries.

    Thats just a few. If you look at his support in congress generally its the ethanol, ‘clean coal’ and pronuclear, the not-Green voters in congress who support Mr Bipartisan.

    The clean energy congress members who support the one who can put out a clean energy plan that will actually achieve its goals.

    The problem is that Obama writes his plan with all the Green goals all the Democrats support, so a casual reader would think he is a Green candidate.

    Their clean energy plans details tell a different story. And anyone with the experience to read them, like Inslee etc, can see the problem right away. Obama does not have the eco knowledge to select advisors well enough to achieve the stated goals.

  39. A great win for Hillary yesterday and proof positive that money isn’t everything in a presidential campaign.

    And BTW, Riverdaughter, didn’t you say yesterday that if Hillary won by, say 39%, you’d sing for us? What I didn’t get that agreement? Well I did, but only in my own mind.

  40. This is part of what would have been an eco diary at dailykos, but its not worth posting data in diaries there these days…tumbleweeds now blowing across the empty halls of that erstwhile mansion… readership capable of critical thinking gone…
    (but meant to Bold the three names Inslee, Corzine and Newsome…so hard to write..)

  41. Bummer. I just read a blurb that Barry has a 20-point lead in Oregon. Bill stressed Hillary’s green energy policy at Tuesday’s rally and the audience responded to it.

  42. OK, I didn’t have THAT much to drink at the cocktail party last night. Who the heck is Jake?!!! Did he go into the filter?

    @ Neptuna, Are you certain of your figures? Not that I don’t want to believe them but no one else is coming up with the positive scenario you’re presenting. If HRC gets a healthy turnout in KY she very well could be leading in the popular vote?!!! Catch me, I’m falling!

    Also, I typically get an email each morning from HRCs campaign for phone calling, no email yet today. Maybe the OR calls are all done. Any word on whether we’re calling MT or KY?

  43. 2209, 2209, 2209! 🙂

  44. Wikipedia has good info on Superdelegates:

    As far as caucuses, I believe that the Democratic Party of each state can vote to eliminate their state caucus in favor of a state primary. So, if you live in a state that holds a caucus instead of, or in addition to, a primary, you can try to get your Dem Party leaders to introduce a bill to eliminate the caucus.

  45. Mystic: Good info. Thanks! Aaargh, I hate caucuses. Or is that caucusi?

  46. We all know the DNC did everything to make Bambie the nominee….why do they still work like ferrets in heat to get him over the line now when it’s obvious to all he’ll loose the White House? My fear is they always knew that and it’s just like when they lie down for the GOP in congress…but on a larger scale. They want everything to continue as it stands as well. Nancy said impeachment was off the table …so perhaps winning the white house is too. I haven’t even discussed how the the Clinton hate factors in. Hillary is working her heart out because she sees the abyss that awaits us with more of this shit from the top .9999 %

    What she is doing no one else could do. Hillary is saving America.

  47. “I got a moment of deja vu for a second there. It seemed
    familiar. Sort of like, “I can’t understand why you’re so mad.
    You’ve got no reason to be. Get over it.” or “You’re nothing
    without me. Where else are you going to go?”


    That’s just how I feel. Voting for McCain would make me violently ill.
    But – if Hillary does not win the nomination, I am certain, that as a committed Democrat she will support Obama and encourage all Democrats to do the same.

    On the other hand, I’m not ready to “make nice”.
    I just hate to let this misogyny and hatred directed at Hillary and her supporters go unanswered. There have got to be consequences for this behavior as far as I’m concerned.
    Racism is denounced but Sexism is dismissed. It’s just girls, so it must be “whining”.
    Naw, I’m not just disheartened, I’m angry.

Comments are closed.

%d bloggers like this: