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Senator Obama’s Humilating Loss In Pennsylvania

An Open Thread.

Senator Obama’s Humilating Loss In Pennsylvania? It’s not just hyperbole. As Tom Watson says:

Numbers Don’t Lie

Here is a fact: more Americans have voted for Hillary Clinton in this presidential election cycle than any other candidate.

Now, before you frantically punch that comment button, let me clarify: I know that the votes in Florida and Michigan generally aren’t counted in the popular vote total. So I know it’s not a generally accepted measurement. But human beings went to those polling places and voted in the outlaw states. There’s no denying that more Americans have voted for Clinton than for Senator Obama since the snows of Iowa – after last night, she holds a tiny .4% lead over Obama.

Last night changed this race. It doesn’t mean Clinton has a clear path to the election, but a big victory in Pennsylvania – when she was massively outspent in media – may be the equivalent of a large undersea earthquake: the big waves may just hit the beach in North Carolina and Indiana.

45 Responses

  1. a little OT, but check out this Chelsea video

    how did she turn out so cool when her mom’s such a monster? /sarcsm

  2. Weird, isn’t it? It might not be fair, but more people have actually cast ballots for Hillary than Obama.

  3. on topic, how could someone possibly be expected to quit when so many people have voted for her, contributed to her campaign, and taken to the phone or the street to work for her? even if she wasn’t a sticker, which she is, that simply wouldn’t be fair to her supporters.

  4. kiki, it’s not off topic — this is an open thread! I’ll go take a look at the video.

  5. An important post over at Anglachel’s Journal:


  6. You know, maybe the Obamaborg knows something after all. If they really were confident in their candidate and his prospects, we’d be seeing a sea-change in their attitude towards us poor reactionary poop-heads…they’d be gracious, or at least they’d engage in ham-handed attempts to look gracious, in impending victory, because their eyes would already be fixed on November and they need to “repair the damage to the party” even at the cost of their own sense of infallibility. Let’s just say that isn’t what I am seeing over where I do my scabbing. In the last few days, on either side of the PA vote, it’s gotten much, much more vitriolic….and as you can imagine, it’s no even directed to pro-Clinton DK folks, now that they number in the single digits. It’s a wild flailing against the cruel world, the sort of thing people do when they know they’re headed for defeat and they need to start framing the narrative of perfidy and conspiracy NOW.

    They know something, and boy, would I like to be let in on the secret! I suspect I would enjoy it immensely. (Well, unless it’s about how racist America is…tell me something that I didn’t know, and/or that is relevant to the case at hand!)

  7. The numbers get even better for Hillary when you only count Democrats.

  8. here’s a petition you can sign supporting another debate:


  9. kiki — that’s great, that Chelsea video. That was her answer to ONE question and look at the range of information. Her view of her mother’s feminism was complete.

    And she shared it without a single um or ah.

    That family of geniuses. Incredible.

  10. myiq2xu, I’m just blown away by the vote thing. No discussion of popular vote. No particular message to delegates, just the simple fact — more people have voted for her. Wow.

    Funny how whether it’s a vote from a Democrat or not is even an issue in our primary, isn’t it?

  11. myiq2xu, that’s a very good point. I have, a couple of times, registered to vote republican in a primary, basically to vote against a candidate I thought would be very bad. that didn’t mean that I’d ever even think of voting republican in a general election.

    with McCain’s candidacy all sown up, there really has been no reason for republicans to vote as such in their own primaries. it would make a certain sort of sense for them to vote in the other party’s primary, and to vote for the candidate they thought couldn’t beat their own candidate.

    that’s what I don’t get about the Obama push to register republicans as dems for a day. do they really think they’ll be dems for another day, in november? not likely.

  12. I am so glad The Confluence is presenting the real story today.

    I watched the map last night. Out of 67 counties Obama lost 60. He lost 90% of the state of PA, some counties such as Luzerne by 50%. And he is the front runner. How humiliating.

    I know, I know. He did better than in OH where he lost 83 counties out of 88. He lost 94% of OH. A state he needed to end the whole thing. This is supposed to be our de facto nominee.

    No wonder Rachel Maddow and others are talking about his improvement in PA, yeah a whole 4%. That message to the “uncreative, class-less types “(TM Lambert) is certainly working.

    If you put this guy out there in the GE, good luck because he’ll lose FL, OH and possibly PA. Maybe WY, ID, AK, MS, he”l put some Red States in play.

  13. yeah Katie, I thought Chelsea was awesome. did you notice the security guard? he looked less than awed – oh well………..

  14. and Katie, happy birthday tomorrow! if you’re feeling old, think about this – I turned 55 on monday, so you’ll always be younger than me! I’m floored – and frankly a little jealous – that you’re considering retiring. I so would if I could! my husband and I are horrible financial planners, we’ll never retire. we do have decent life insurance so we joke, morbidly, that our retirement plan is one of us has to die so the other can finally retire…..sigh……

    do have a great birthday!!!!!

  15. good luck because he’ll lose FL, OH and possibly PA. Maybe WY, ID, AK, MS, he”l put some Red States in play.

    Problem is, Florida alone has more population than three or four of those other states put together…

  16. kiki — Thank you for the Bday wish! I don’t have any plans. It’s a work day too.

    I didn’t exactly have a retirement plan as luck. For all the job hopping I’ve done in my life, they’ve all been in the same public employee retirement plan. And it turned into 31 years….

    Pure luck.

  17. Rich, I wish I had the nerve to drop by there. But, I just don’t. It sounds like a certain sort of fun though.

    MABlue, He did better in PA? By counting counties? Or what?

  18. I just posted this over at corrente, and thought it was worth sharing here too:

    Subject: Didn’t she get ~20% MORE votes than him, NOT 8 or 9%?

    If we’re going to get into an arithmetic pissing contest, this is important:

    an 8.6 or 9.6 point spread is not expressed mathematically as 8.6 or 9.6 %, but is just the difference in points between her amount as percent of the total vote and his [a subtraction thing].

    BUT 8.6 or 9.6 points represent between 18.8 – 21 % OF his 45.7% of the vote [a division/multiplication thingy, n’est-ce pas?].

    I welcome any correction here, but if I’m right, this certainly sounds, and actually IS, better that hearing she did 8% better.

    As a matter of fact, I’d be crowing about it from the rooftops.

  19. My theory is that Democrats should select the Democratic nominee.

    Open primaries encourage opposition-party tampering. The meme that they bring others into the process and help candidates with broader or “crossover” appeal is bs.

    If indies and GOPers really like our candidates, let them join up. No free rides.

  20. Shainzona, I thought I saved your comment from the spam filter. But, I don’t see it here. I must have deleted it by mistake? Could you repost it? I’m really, really sorry.

  21. whaleshaman, wow. I don’t know the answer to that. Maybe after a night’s sleep (which will be very soon now)

    myiq2xu — I totally agree. I don’t understand why people would even want to vote in another group’s primary. But why we should let them do it in ours. I. don’t. get. it.

  22. Have you read Clyburn’s comments? he’s repeating the tripe that Clinton is willing to do anything to destroy Obama. If the Democrats don’t bring this to an end, I’m not voting for any of them.

    I don’t want to be part of party that seems to have decided the bottom of a pig pen is the best place to find their talking points. I’m writing Pelosi, Dean, Reid and Berman, Feinstein and Boxer tomorrow and telling them that I’m about ready to sit this entire election out.

  23. just to clarify, I have crossed over, but only in local primaries where I thought certain candidates would be absolutely awful. I lived in a strongly republican county where our choice was a moderate republican or a crazy right winger. I wanted to have a say, but maybe I was wrong to vote in their primary.

    I never even thought about it in a presidential primary, and have thought it was a weird campaign tactic for Obama to do openly. it’s inviting McCain supporters to help choose who he will run against. it makes no sense. if you win now, you lose later.

  24. KiKi,

    That’s one of the problems with his campaign. He has to destroy so much to win the primary, that I’m not sure how he overcomes the fall out from his own destructive activities in the general.

    I used to work with women who were going to court against abusive husbands – it was part of a volunteer project that helped women move off of welfare. There were so many abusive husbands who thought they could just come into court and lie and charm the judge. This incredible machismo about how much smarter they were than the judge, their wife, the system, the cops. That’s what Obama reminds of. Say anything. Do anything. Fuck the results.

    Clyburn’s comments, after Rhodes’ diatribe, is just way too short of the line of civilized discourse embraced by the Obama campaign.

  25. Go Read Krugman, his column is up, awesome. Bravo, he is the best.

    “But the message that Democrats are ready to continue and build on a grand tradition doesn’t mesh well with claims to be bringing a “new politics” and rhetoric that places blame for our current state equally on both parties.

    And unless Democrats can get past this self-inflicted state of confusion, there’s a very good chance that they’ll snatch defeat from the jaws of victory this fall.”

    Brilliant column. The only true liberal thinker left.

  26. I sure hope Clinton wins Indiana, esp. after Obama’s snubbing her and the debates. He is a total coward and the party is INSANE for enabling this guy.

  27. I just read something to the effect that Obamanation is trying to hold expectations at a single-digit win for BO. Who knows, she just might win 2/3 of the white vote, which is what it would take to overcome him over there.

  28. San Francisco Chronicle, Thursday, April 24, 2008, buried on page A17:


    Sen. Barack Obama continued accepting donations from oil company executives and employees in March even as he aired ads in which he stated he took no oil company money, campaign finance reports show.

    Obama has taken at least $263,000 from oil company executives, family members and employees since entering the presidential race last year. At least $140,000 has come in chunks of between $1,000 and $2,3000, the maximum permitted under federal law.

    Texas oil executive Robert Cavnar of Milagro Exploration and his wife, Gracie, have helped the Illinois Democrat raise at least another $50,000 by co-hosting a fundraiser.

    In the weeks leading up to Tuesday’s Pennsylvania primary, Obama aired a campaign spot in Indiana and Pennsylvania that sought to reinforce his theme that he would change the Washington culture, while also tapping into voter distress about the high price of gasoline. In the ad, he called for a windfall profits tax.

    “Since the gas lines of the ’70s, Democrats and Republicans have talked about energy independence but nothing’s changed–except now Exxon’s making $40 billion a year and we’re paying $3.50 for gas. I’m Barack Obama. I don’t take money from oil companies or Washington lobbyists, and I won’t let them block change anymore,” says the spot, which aired as recently as April 8.”

    Fast backwards to early last Feb.when Ralph Nadar’s Public Citizen released a report that made me doubt the integrity of Mr. Obama and wonder if “change,” “hope,” and “taking a chance on my own aspirations” might just be the latest Axelrod ad campaign. But lies about lobbyists didn’t get any play since the media was already in the tank for Bama. Not since the media foisted that empty suit Bu$h versus Gore on a naive electorate has their been such a push for the corporate-owned media to elect the next President, one that wouldn’t be capable of effecting any real change.

    Fact Check: Sen. Obama and Lobbyists
    2/6/2008 9:44:30 AM

    During his speech last night, Sen. Obama continued his negative attacks on Hillary. Among them:

    “It’s a choice between a candidate who’s taken more money from Washington lobbyists than either Republican in this race and a campaign that has not taken a dime of their money.”

    Sen. Obama’s comments come on the same week Public Citizen released a report detailing ten bundlers for Sen. Obama who have registered as federal lobbyists.

    Sen. Obama has also taken money from former lobbyists, partners of lobbyists, people who hire lobbyists, lobbyists’ spouses, and state lobbyists. [article copied below]

    Until he started running for president, Sen. Obama took money from federal lobbyists and, as a state senator, directly from corporations.


    An Asterisk To Obama’s Policy On Donations
    A presidential hopeful’s refusal of lobbyist money has its limits
    By Dan Morgan L.A. Times Staff Writer

    WASHINGTON. While pledging to turn down donations from lobbyists themselves, Sen. Barack Obama raised more than $1 million in the first three months of his presidential campaign from law firms and companies that have major lobbying operations in the nation’s capital.

    Portraying himself as a new-style politician determined to reform Washington, Obama makes his policy clear in fundraising invitations, stating that he takes no donations from “federal lobbyists.” His aides announced last week he was returning $43,000 to lobbyists who donated to his campaign.
    But the Illinois Democrat’s policy of shunning money from lobbyists registered to do business on Capitol Hill does not extend to lawyers whose partners lobby there.
    Nor does the ban apply to corporations that have major lobbying operations in Washington. And the prohibition does not extend to lobbyists who ply their trade in such state capitals as Springfield, Ill.; Tallahassee, Fla.; and Sacramento, though some deal with national clients and issues.
    “Clearly, the distinction is not that significant,” said Stephen Weissman of the Campaign Finance Institute, a nonpartisan think tank that focuses on campaign issues. that says he is trying to be different,” Weissman said. “But overall, the same wealthy interests are funding his campaign as are funding other candidates, whether or not they are lobbyists.”

    [read the rest at the caclean.org link mentioned above.]

  29. Happy Birthday KB and on to Guam!

  30. Since it is hockey playoff season, it seems appropriate to dig out Wayne Gretzky’s old saw: the only thing that beats hard work is hard work and talent. The Chelsea Clinton youtube above? That’s hard work and talent. Just like her mother. We’ll be seeing more of Chelsea – now *that* would be dynastic …

  31. “Obama’s humiliating loss” should be our mantra on the World Wide Web. Good work, katiebird!

  32. Happy Birthday, KBird. Hope it’s a good day!

  33. (smiling) Thank you A.Citizen and BFF.

  34. yes-let’s do “Obama’s humiliating loss”. It was.

    Some counties 70+ to 20+ (my former county of Washington in PA), other counties 60+ to 30+.

    Even my current ‘elite’ Bucks County, which was to save his sorry ass, a Philly suburb, was 63-37.

    Guess we don’t like him much here in PA outside of Philly, Harrisburg (large black pops) or the college twons.

  35. Another-perhaps more important blogging line…..

    Keith Olbermann said a (male) Democratic super delegate should take Hillary Clinton into a room, and only the man should emerge.

    He is advocating violence (?) against Hillary. What does he mean? In any case it is irresponsible and he should BE FIRED! (write to letters@msnbc.com)

    We need to say this.

  36. have a great day Katie!

  37. PA was big but there is a dose of reality to be considered.

    If Hillary can win NC she can be nominated. If she loses by the margin he just did she won’t. It’s about that simple now.

    Obama outspent Clinton so that he would not lose by 15 to 20 points. He would have. Given the demographics it was quite possible and even somehwat likely if you translated OH demograhics to the older and whiter PA population.

    He’s the front runner becasue he has the delegate lead. Unfortunately its like a 100 yard dash where he is 80 yards down the track and she was 67. (it’s just an analogy) Though he gained only 5 yards she gained 10. So now he is 85 yards down the track and she is 77. IF PA were on super tuesday there would be no difference to what the media is dubbing “the math”.

    He will end up 95 yards down the track and she will end up 89 yards down the track so to speak. And from there the superdelegates will most likely push him across.

    The real tragedy is Florida. There is no way Obama will win with seniors ,Jews and (he’ll meet with Castro!) Cubans. He’d likely do ok in MI though. WIth Fl it is a tie basically.

    Indiana is must win but NC is perhaps more important because the popular vote meme could be erased for good there. So while Clinton might not win NC she would do well to take a page out of his book and limit any loss there. That would elevate FL, OH, and PA and the “outside chance” that SD’s can pick Hillary.

    SD’s know that PA and Oh are more important than NC. But they don;t seem to have the guts to pick the candidate that can more easily win FL, OH and PA unless he trips in NC and actually loses the popular vote and demonstrates there is “no way” he can beat McCain..

    In terms of delegates and results PA was really just a much bigger RI with Philly atttached. One thing is for sure though with the white women vote being what is is, he can’t really knock her out. It’s all delegates by attrition and they know it.

    Unfortunatley I see this as more of a problem for beating McCain than seeing Hillary as the nominee. There is little doubt that many in the party view Clinton as hurting Obama’s chances when they view her as having no chance at all (i.e. becasue try as she might, she will actually never get the nomination) . So he will stumble across weakly after losing OH, TX, PA, WV, FL, KY and maybe IN. In addition women will be deadly mad as this blog often reflects. But guess what, he will still get the nod unless we can add NC to the list..

    As bad as PA was for Obama a 10 point or more loss by CLinton in NC will probably end the race for all practical purposes. Given the lack of movement by SD’s the party will pick “new voters”. “young voters” and AA loyalty over the more electorally diverse white women.

    The way it has shaped up either AA or women will be upset and everything I smell says the traditional 90% black vote turnout is important on congressional and down ticket thinking as well as a generation of political backlash to consider when the women are left to vote for future male candidates, The SDs simply will not do it and its getting clearer despite PA and perhaps even “becasue” of PA..

    The reason Obama is becoming unelectable (nothwithstanding Hillary) is becoming a racial meme. That is toxic for the party and the party is getting scared.

    I don’t even think SDs will be saying “who can beat McCain”. I think they are thinking what is least likely to wreck the party in the long term.

    What the disgruntled do in November is all that remains to see if McCain or Obama wins the white house. Unless NC can be won that is the situation in my opinion.

    So forget Indiana for a minute, there is little to do there to alter the Gary +a lot of Indianapolis= Obama, and Martinsville WHiting and near Kentucky = Clinton.
    I’ve been through Martinsville, she will win 90% of it but not for a good reason like we see.

    The DEM party is looking at new voter young voters in NC as a reflection of the future of the party. That’s where he needs to be taken out.

    Else we are just going to be more pissed when she gets closer still but Obama is the nominee. Help her In NC if you can. It’s her PA.

  38. Yeah, it’s very humiliating how he cut a 20% lead to a 9% lead.

    Yeah, it’s very humiliating that Senator Obama IS leading in votes because you can’t count Michigan and Florida and even if you did he still would be leading.

    You have truly drunk the Kool-Aid and please don’t cry when Senator Obama gets the nomination.

  39. You have truly drunk the Kool-Aid and please don’t cry when Senator Obama gets the nomination.>>

    I’m more likely to cry when jerks like you cause people who populate this type blog to make Obama lose in November. I’d vote for Obama but I must admit Obama supporters make it hard for Clinton supporters to do so.

    And its really funny that it is the almost always the young and progressive crowd and not 90+ loyal AA crowd that is rightly happy with the historical AA opportunity they see.

    What a shame that the AbercrombieNF Obamabots will cause Obama to lose because the Levi’s and pantsuit wearing women stay home in droves “crying” just to see you do it too before you head to the mall the next day to do some early November Christmas shopping.

    My belief is that what was a historical positive experience is opening a new generation of misogyny and potential for racial division to go unchecked by the stalwart co civil rights arm that is the womens movement.

    Obama who proably doesn;t even deserve it will be the recipient because of his anti-clinton and anti women supporters. Have a nice day and say hello to Rev Wright you will be really tired his impact by fall.

    Goodbye OH PA FL MO and 1600 PA ave.

  40. Whistling past the graveyard from ambboogie. Just keep an eye in your mirror, objects are a LOT closer than they appear!

  41. While I understand why Sen. Clinton would want to include Florida and Michigan, a few months ago she said on a radio show that “Florida and Michigan don’t count and we all know it.” It’s not surprising, though, since we are talking about the Clintons, that she would change her message. I am an Obama supporter, but I do not consider myself anti-Hillary. Yes, the things she says frustrate me quite a bit sometimes, since she seems to lack any sort of genuine emotion and seems determined to take the low road, but I somewhat respect her as a person and will vote for her if she’s the nominee. As long as we have a Democrat in office, I’ll be happy. I’ll just be happier if it’s Obama.
    Now, I disagree about his loss in Pennsylvania. I would hardly say that it was a “humiliating” loss, because he was down by 33 points (yes, he was) at one point and came up to close the gap at ten. Pennsylvania was always a Hillary state.

    So, the word choice of “humiliating”…? Just another example of the Clintonites’ old school politics.

    and ambboogie, I love you.

    To hear the Obamicans’ side of things, visit my blog, http://www.heymanda.wordpress.com

  42. amandatalbott,

    Heaven’s! I wouldn’t dream of asking you to count anything.

    I’m simply pointing out that more voters have voted for Hillary this year than Obama.

    It’s a simple fact.

  43. Amelia, I’m deleting your comment. You don’t get to call anyone here stupid.

    No one does.

  44. Since when do we give highest credence to facts from a site that so strongly promote the person being referred to. Go to Wal-Mart’s site and you’ll find out how much Wal-Mart is doing for their workers.

    Speaking of anti-union activities, how about Hillary’s stint on their board of directors being counted as part of her long career of “public service”? I’d say that it’s quite representative of her best characteristic: opportunism for Hillary Clinton’s sake.

    By the way, take a look at my blog www. rationalpsychic.wordpress.com to see how there was no double-digit win in PA by Clinton. Source: CNN


  45. RE: Paul Krugman: “Brilliant column. The only true liberal thinker left.”

    If Krugman is the only true liberal thinker left, than your party is truly in trouble. Krugman isn’t a thinker, he’s a leftist propagandist.

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