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Unity? Not so much …

Big Tent Democrat is asking about Unity Tickets. But, we’re talking about a guy who’s still keeping votes from two states from counting in this nomination process.  How unifying is that?

SusanUnPC has an example of what might be in store for us if Obama takes either slot on our ticket — “N.C. GOP releases Rev. Wright ad” — how unifying is this?

And he can’t control himself. Is this unifying yet?

. . . My feelings about the Unity Ticket?  Not so much.

With all the really good possibilities among Democrats why tie ourselves down to last season’s candidate?  How about looking for a VP with a commitment to Hillary’s goals.  Someone who could help shepherd her Health Care Plan through Congress?  There are a lot of things to consider in picking the Vice Presidential candidate and I’m not sure Unity is the most important one.

72 Responses

  1. we also need to put pressure on Howard Dean to accept Fl and MI as they are, no concessions, no changes. Obama refused revote, now doesn’t want to accept what is. He just wants to split delegates down the middle.

    Dean need to certify FL and MI before the last primary. Tomorrow would be good. They are trying to run HRC out and then will miraculously appear w. MI and FL and say “see we are going to accept your vote”.

  2. Hey RD – I missed the party here last night and this morning –

    Congrats to you for all that work in PA that paid off. I treally is people on the gorund like you and the others who made this happen. She did great!

    The link BTD has up re an old thread on this topic has me in there against the idea. Now I am keeping a wait and see what happens in the next two states.

    Cheers!
    Judy

  3. the Judy is a joke – somebody else called me Judy here. The only person allowed to call me that is my brother – and he is visitng me and reading the blogs with me tonight. he is a gun nut from Colorado. Ha!

  4. tonva — I’ve started a half-dozen open letters to Dean, but my rage makes them pretty useless.

  5. Hi Judith! I wouldn’t dream of calling you that other name.

  6. Spiro Agnew was a guy who made the leap from local commissioner to governor to the White House in under six years. He wound up resigning over bribery and kickbacks. Obama’s a slow poke compared that, still even Dan Quayle had a more thorough resume than Obama – 2 terms as Congressman and he was two years into his 2nd term as senator, when Bush Sr. picked him for VP because he thought women would vote for him. .

    Baltimore looks a lot like Chicago to me and I have no idea why Rezko purchased that strip of land for Obama’s enjoyment. I know this – it looks like a bribe to me. In 1989, Jim McDougal was indicted by the DOJ on the failure of the Madison S&L and was acquitted that year on all charges. Three years later, when Clinton was running his first campaign, the DOJ began looking into Whitewater again – despite the acquittal. If there is anything to the Rezko purchase, we won’t know until it’s too late. I don’t want the Clinton White House getting smeared with Chicago treachery – all though it would be incredibly entertaining to watch the O-bots deal with it.

    Anyway, Barack Obama. Spiro Agnew. The comparison works for me. No unity ticket. I would hate to see a Clinton headed ticket go down because of Obama’s malfeasance.

  7. It’s way too early to talk about that. I don’t even want to think about it. Been reading over at myDD.. Jerome throws down over Obama electability.. and digs up the McGovern ’72 logo.. very interesting. (I had no idea what it looked like.. McGovern was half a decade+ before I was even born.. 🙂

  8. Oh, Lori — Spiro Agnew. (shaking my head) Now if I had any doubts, that’s behind me.

  9. Okay, more serious. Just my opinion and I havent been her awhile so I know I am not a key player –

    We may go into the convention time with a split down the middle and a big fight brewing. I dont think that is all that bad because we have seen that Clinton wont back down and seems to be getting stronger. BUT, dont you think (I dont know I am asking) the SDs will want to see the people Obama has brought in from outside the core Democrats possibley remain in the tent? I think it woud be good to have him for that reason as VP. I no longeer think she needs a military guy as her VP as she has shown she has some strong shoulders herself.

    I am not a fan of his fans but it isnt about that, I think. Hope you dont think I am nuts

  10. daria g — I loved McGovern and that election broke my heart. Still, there are a lot of real lessons to learn from it all. I’ll go look at what Jerome has to say.

  11. Hi katiebird – you must be SO happy. Congrats to you!

    It was judydoody all my childhood – I have SUCH a complex. 🙂 But I am kidding – I use it sometimes.
    I am very silly tonight so forgive me please.

  12. Judith, I don’t think you’re nuts. And the SDs could band together to ask Hillary anything. But, I think if they were THAT impressed with BO, they’d have committed to him directly.

    Or are you talking about the SDs who have committed to him using the VP promise as a requirement for switching to Hillary?

  13. Happy about last night? YES!

  14. judith, you’re hardly nuts. you’ve identified the key issue here. the dems have worked themselves into a situation where they could possibly drive people out of the party forever, no matter which way they go. the obama embrace, based on nothing, is what did it. now they have to figure out how to undo it, or they’ve really totally blown it.

  15. Hi Katiebird.

    Well, I wasn’t really talking specifically about committed or nots – I am under the impression that quite a few have not come out either way yet. So I was talking about if after the next two States we are looking at something fairly close (depending on how it is measured) the SDs have to look at what gives them the biggest chance for victory AND keeps people in the party. So i can see a case to be made that a “unity ticket” does make sense.

  16. kiki, don’t you think that’s a really good reason for letting all the votes go on — even revote MI & FL? Actual votes would validate the nomination process, wouldn’t they?

  17. But with 9 or so states (plus MI & FL) why draw a line after 2? We have an historic chance to count every vote and I’d like to see that happen.

    The SDs will have to make a decision at some point but, why rush now?

  18. I think we’ve got a lot to learn about Obama. Elections with debates and exposure seem like a good way to do that.

  19. kiki – I dont know (again, really dont know) if people will leave the party forever but I sure can see some very angry people sitting this one out – on both sides.

    I saw clip of Whoopi (dont sue me I LOVE her) say that she almost want McCain to win so the GOP arw estuck with their own crap. I can see other people using that as a justification to say – eff it and not vote – again, on either side.

  20. Katiebird – not trying to rush – I think the next 2 are the last of the big ones, no? Arent the rest fairly small? I agree with you that they should vote…I am just saying I dont know how those numbers would swing a big way either direction. I could be wrong on that, tho.

  21. Katie, I absolutely think so. if the democratic party gets identified with vote suppression, that label will be with them forever. they used to stand for the opposite. they’ve blown it so totally here.

    Sugar is calling Howard Dean….Coward Dean. funny but tragic.

    if the votes aren’t counted, it will be much more than a 2008 thing.

  22. What is this?

    I thought Republicans could run negative ads ONLY against Hillary Clnton. Even “brilliant” people who write for the esteemed NY Times such as Frank Rich, warned us not to even think about voting for Hillary because the GOP would unload a truck of dirt they have on her (yeah, like Drudge could withhold anything against Hillary for even 5 sec)

    We heard that Obama was so clean there was nothing to attack and people are dying in the Red States to ride his coattails.

    Wasn’t there a story about one of the McCain ad guys who loves Obama so much, he said he would quit if there were a negative ad against him. It think it was Mark McKinnon.

    What happened?

  23. xpost – Katiebird – I don’t know much about what was going on in that time.. I guess it made me wonder if there are parallels in the way young people are drawn to Obama with that campaign. (But not parallels with the despicable tactics of Axelrod and co.)

    You know, something else I wonder about that myDD diary.. if Obama’s winning voters that call themselves “very liberal”.. what does that even mean to those voters? could that well be socially very liberal to libertarian Kos readers who don’t want the government to mess with them, basically?

  24. i agree with you both. I am assuming they get added in some way – Clinton will force the issue. That will be part of this coming even. A unity ticket saves the DNC;s butt, imo.

  25. hey, I love Whoopi too! 🙂

    I find myself making it alright, mentally, if it’s McCain for one term. then I think that’s so negative and I slap myself upside the head. I dunno…….

  26. mablue – i am waiting for the ‘Obama is a marxist and a marxist is a commie” ads myself.

  27. I love Sugar, kiki — I almost quoted her in this post, but it really needs a post of it’s own. She’s great.

  28. Harold Ford, Jr. for VP. A friend told me he was on MSNBC last night and did a good job (he is neutral at the moment and actually acts neutral unlike “undecideds” like Pelosi and Brazile). He is a handsome, young African-American man minus the arrogance and baggage.

  29. November is a long way off and if “the One” should get the nomination (please God, I will give up cookies and wine if you not let this happen) we may all have to rethink how this goes. The SC is a big one for me. No more Alito and Roberts up there. However, if the dems sweep the House and Senate and McCain appears in the lead (I promise to go back to Sunday mass if you not let this happen) we may have to hold our collective noses and vote for h.i.m. I would like nothing more than to make a statement of my disgust for the handling of this election but we may have to step back and retool, not so much for the sake of the party, but for the nation. Just saying.

  30. Wasn’t there a story about one of the McCain ad guys who loves Obama so much, he said he would quit if there were a negative ad against him. It think it was Mark McKinnon. What happened?

    If what I saw today on MSNBC is an indication.. eh.. seems to me like an extended version of McCain’s “my friends” thing.. putting up a front of upstanding and honorable and formal behavior, while letting the ugly stuff go on – such as the NC GOP running ads already using Wright to attack Democrats – and a big show from McCain “we asked them not to run it.”

    Yeah.. My friends, please, don’t run those negative ads against Obama. We like him so much, my friends! Meanwhile the ads are circulated anyway and used to destroy him..

  31. let’s give Sugar a shout out, for anyone who hasn’t discovered her

    http://sugarnspice.typepad.com/sugar_n_spicea_meeting_pl/

  32. Kiki – yeah, she is very cool.

    I couldnt vote for Mccain – he creeps me out on some level – not his age

  33. oooh Pat, cookies and wine????? will we get through this without them?

  34. Charles,

    I’m with you. This man is a disgrace. There are some very rich and powerful people who are trying to force him on us. I don’t even want him for VP. Sometimes I really think the Republicans are using him to take over the Democratic party. BTW, great post today! It was linked from Talkleft.

  35. daria, I started working for McGovern when I was 17 and some of the organizational aspects were very similar — we had the caucus system down-pat. And we knew the rules backwards and forwards — it’s where I learned the basics. I had every button I could get my hand on. And we’ve still got a couple of posters at my parents house. But I don’t remember that graphic Jerome has on his post. I wonder if it was regional?

  36. Katiebird,

    My first vote was for George McGovern. But today it’s easier to understand what happened to the party in ’72. Young people and anti-war people insisted on McGovern and a lot of Democrats sat on their hands. Obama will be another McGovern in that he will probably only carry his home state. But Obama isn’t fit to kiss the hem of George McGovern’s pants leg. McGovern was an is an honest man. Obama is a lying fraud. Sorry, that’s just the truth.

  37. BB: Charles,

    I’m with you. This man is a disgrace. There are some very rich and powerful people who are trying to force him on us

    hmmm, sounds a lot like the current resident of 1600. makes me wonder sometimes if the Dems want their own boy-toy. crazier things have happened.

  38. bostonboomer — exactly right.everything you said. Me too. And I won’t apologize for saying it.

  39. kiki — they both have an unfortunate resemblance to Alfred E Newman. I wonder if the similarities go deeper?

  40. I tried to go to sugar’s blog but I had a tech glitch. i will check it out tomorrow if you all rave about her.

    Good night y’all…me and the bro have a couple of other blogs he wants to see. I have enjoyed reading your thoughts tonight. i sure dont know what the answer is to any of this – but i am sure feeling very proud of Clinton and of you – I feel good and I hope all of you arefeeling that way, too.

  41. OK, now THAT was negative.

  42. G’night Judith, it’s been fun. Sugar is listed in the Blogroll, so she’s easy to reach. Say hi to your brother.

  43. you know, at least 70% of the country thinks of bush as a total failure at this point. but for some -not the other 30% – but a small percentage, his presidency has been a huge and total success, financially and in terms of influence. I imagine certain dems envy and would love to be in that situation. could this be all about this? cause it’s all about something, and it couldn’t possibly be one good speech.

  44. Katie, I grew up on Mad Magazine, and these guys are ruining my memories!

    I have to go to bed – hope you’re feeling better!

  45. kiki: Since I retired I have gained 10 lbs. If this keeps up I am going to start modeling for the Aretha Franklin clothing line. I need to exercise more but those cookies keep calling. And I love Sugar’s blog. But this blog has a siren sound and I keep checking in during the day. Sugar has a lot of passion and I told her I wanted her to come with me the next time I had to make an exchange at Lord and Taylor. That line will move then no doubt!

  46. g’night kiki. I do feel lots better, thanks.

    Pat, I’m retiring this summer and I’m looking forward to having time to exercise more regularly. Are you saying that’s unlikely?

  47. OT but what a great picture. (Shakesville via Davidson @ Corrente)

    You can only imagine the pride Chelsea and Ms Rodham feel, watching their mom and daughter. It just reminded me of this piece written by Connie Schultz.

    Maybe MABlue is not as tough as he thought he were.

  48. Frankly, if Hillary is the nominee, I think Obama as VP would drag her down! He is a lightning rod in his own right now as the GOP are already starting the Wright ads. If he had ANY regard for the party and voters, he would decline a VP spot, just as he SAID he would…remember, he said he was running for President and didn’t want VP. For once, I wish he was telling the truth….or would follow through on what he said.

  49. I persistently have this worry that yes, Obama could well only carry his home state and DC.. back in 03/04 became convinced that’d have happened to Dean as well.. but what are the signs of impending doom, some data I can point to instead of me acting like Chris Matthews here & just making stuff up based on pretty narrow personal views. 🙂

  50. IMO, a compromise candidate is ten times as likely as a unity ticket.

  51. Katiebird, the problem is me. I indulge myself. Never did it before, too kid oriented, taking care of an ill parent, and working, working, working. Now that I have the time I read a lot and visit the blogs. Thus, I am sitting on my butt a lot more than I used to. This is what freedom from responsibilities brings. And I have a sweet tooth. So, no, in answer to your question, you should have no problems. It really is an amazing time of life. So far I have been enjoying every moment. You will too.

  52. Pat, whew. I really stuggle with obesity, it’s a real worry for me.

    RonK — I just felt like I had to SCREAM no. And give everyone here a chance to join in. I Hate the idea.

    daria g — One of my coworkers supports Hillary and he’s always implying that I’m making stuff up. But I swear I don’t. I don’t think you do either 🙂 — (whispering) could we possibly make some of this stuff up?

  53. http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/012366.php

    Here is ereposte’s list of Obama campaign’s negative actions/campaigning from The Left Coaster.

    I thought I would absolutely remember where I d read the list–NOW I have it bookmarked….

    Almost a full year.

  54. That’s weird–I tried to post something twice–not showing up. This is a test.

  55. http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/012366.php

    3rd try: eriposte’s list of Obama campaign negative actions/campaigning.

    Hope this shows up.

  56. 4th try!

    Eriposte’s list of Obama campaign’s negative campaigning.

    http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/012366.php

  57. Sorry, jawbone — I found a couple of comments in the Spam filter. Did I free everything?

  58. I often close my comments with:

    “Don’t step in the Unity.”

  59. katiebird, I think.. for me, I look at my family, all Dems, & am pretty sure the only one who’d vote for Obama is my younger brother.. parents wrote him off a long time ago as 1) lacking experience to be president 2) talking a lot of BS and now my mother really dislikes him & thinks he’s arrogant on top of it.. and they don’t think hardly anyone around will vote for him either.. this is rust belt Appalachia part of the country. But anecdotal evidence isn’t worth much, but I see him losing all those states (exception: Maryland?) inc Pennsylvania and Ohio, and losing Florida.. we’re toast.

    Aren’t we? here’s a calculator.. I recall having this argument with an Obama fan earlier this week.. granted everyone had been drinking a fair amount.. but I couldn’t get a good answer to the question, how the hell does he win in November if he can’t win PA, OH, FL?

  60. But then, maybe if the worst happens and he gets nominated I’m lucky that’s the case. reading comments over at TalkLeft I’m not the only one who’d be actually afraid about what might happen if Obama were running the country.

  61. Did you all hear about keith Olbermann’s laterst outburst:

    This is what Joan Walsh says in her column in Salon:

    Update: Did MSNBC’s Keith Olbermann really say that? He and “Countdown” stalwart Howard Fineman were reprising their regular conversation about the perfidy of the Clinton campaign Wednesday night when Fineman bemoaned the lack of Democratic leaders (he called that an oxymoron) who could tell Clinton the race was over. Olbermann did him one better, insisting that ending Clinton’s campaign requires finding a strong Democratic leader “who can take her into a room, and only he comes out.” I know and like and have worked with Keith Olbermann, but that just sounded…wrong.

  62. That means it sounded like Keith Olberman (i.e. “sounded . . . wrong”)

    Honestly have you ever seen someone project so much of their own fears and negatives on their opponent. He knows damn well that if he walked into a room with a super delegate and needed to convince them to let him stay, he would be out with yesterday’s trash. Similarly he complains that Clinton unfairly targets opponents with personal smears and underhanded attacks when that is his lifetime MO.

    Let me guess he drives a mid-life crisis sports car. The one that is suppose to compensate for all the other equipment he is missing.

  63. I keep thinking that if a unity ticket is the only way to unite the party, we’ll see it. And that seems quite likely to be the case from where I sit. On the other hand, if a compromise candidate would do it, then a unity ticket isn’t the only way. Problem is, what compromise candidate could there be besides Al Gore, who does not seem to want the job …

  64. I somehow got disturbed hearing Olbermann’s statement. I mean take her to a room and do what?? Will Olbermann ever talk about Obama or McCain like that? Hell he wouldn’t dare to talk about Bush also like that.

  65. [In deference to the standards of this blog, smoothe08’s personally disparaging talikng points are deleted — RonK]

  66. In deference to rd and everyone else on this blog, I am holding my tongue with regard to smoothe08. Obviously has no idea what constitutes an elitist in the first place.

  67. Have the idiot pundits tried to blame Hillary yet for the N.C. ad? I’m sure they’ll find a way to put her in league with the NC GOP to bring Obama down. Last night on one of the shows, (I don’t remember which because they’re all the same to me.) they were saying that John McCain should force the NC GOP to stop the ad. Yeah, right!!!
    Politics in our state (N.C.) gets very rough and dirty. The Rev. Wright ad is just the tip of the iceberg. Obama and his supporters better get used to it.

  68. I just don’t see any way for the Dems to win w/o both being on the ticket. There are too many people on both sides willing to switch to McSame or sit on their hands for the Democrats to come out ahead in November.
    An Obama/Clinton ticket makes no sense to me, but a Clinton/Obama ticket I think would be a great coalition builder.

  69. Senators are more important than vice presidents, except when it comes to Evil and I doubt that’s going to have much role in a Democratic White House. So whoever loses the race for the nomination should stay in the Senate and decline, with whatever level of graciousness suits them, any offer of the vice presidency.

  70. BB and kiki “there are some rich and powerfull…”

    like Little Boots had his energy biz handlers, I think that any one glancing at his lobbyist written energy plan can see it clearly, that it is the same thing again. Same focus on nuclear and “clean coal” and now with a new boondoggle: ethanol.

  71. riverdaughter, my image of his energyplan did not post…can you retrieve it?

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