• Tips gratefully accepted here. Thanks!:

  • Recent Comments

    Propertius on Once they’re in, you can’t vot…
    Propertius on The Fool
    riverdaughter on Once they’re in, you can’t vot…
    riverdaughter on Once they’re in, you can’t vot…
    Propertius on “Pet Peeves”
    Ga6thDem on Once they’re in, you can’t vot…
    Propertius on Once they’re in, you can’t vot…
    Beata on Once they’re in, you can’t vot…
    Beata on “Pet Peeves”
    Beata on “Pet Peeves”
    Propertius on Once they’re in, you can’t vot…
    William on The Welcome Escape of a M…
    HerStory Repeating on Once they’re in, you can’t vot…
    Beata on The Welcome Escape of a M…
    William on The Welcome Escape of a M…
  • Categories


  • Tags

    abortion Add new tag Afghanistan Al Franken Anglachel Atrios bankers Barack Obama Bernie Sanders big pharma Bill Clinton cocktails Conflucians Say Dailykos Democratic Party Democrats Digby DNC Donald Trump Donna Brazile Economy Elizabeth Warren feminism Florida Fox News General Glenn Beck Glenn Greenwald Goldman Sachs health care Health Care Reform Hillary Clinton Howard Dean John Edwards John McCain Jon Corzine Karl Rove Matt Taibbi Media medicare Michelle Obama Michigan misogyny Mitt Romney Morning Edition Morning News Links Nancy Pelosi New Jersey news NO WE WON'T Obama Obamacare OccupyWallStreet occupy wall street Open thread Paul Krugman Politics Presidential Election 2008 PUMA racism Republicans research Sarah Palin sexism Single Payer snark Social Security Supreme Court Terry Gross Texas Tim Geithner unemployment Wall Street WikiLeaks women
  • Archives

  • History

  • RSS Paul Krugman: Conscience of a Liberal

    • An error has occurred; the feed is probably down. Try again later.
  • The Confluence

    The Confluence

  • RSS Suburban Guerrilla

    • Ginni in the spotlight
      NEW: Ginni Thomas met with Jan 6 committee IN PERSON. She did not answer my questions pic.twitter.com/5z6pypr0S9 — Annie Grayer (@AnnieGrayerCNN) September 29, 2022 New: In interview with Jan 6 cmte, Ginni Thomas reiterated her belief that the 2020 presidential election was stolen. “Yes" Cmte Chmn Bennie Thompson said when asked if Thomas said she … Con […]
  • RSS Ian Welsh

    • America Defeats Germany Again
      There’s a good article in Der Spiegel on the German energy/industrial crisis which is worth your time. Basically industries which have high energy costs are being crushed. In particular this means chemical and automotive, both big in Germany, but extends far further. (Indeed, the chemical industry was essentially invented by Germany in the 19th century, and […]
  • Top Posts

The HR Challenge

OK, Obama supporters, now that we’ve got your attention, and you, ours, it’s time for you to convince us to vote for Obama and accept him as our future nominee. I would like you to make your case in the form of a job interview. Here are the parameters:

  1. You must not make any reference to your competition, either Hillary or McCain.  Most applicants don’t know who their competition is.  You are to make your case based on your candidate alone.
  2. Explain Obama’s qualifications and experience to us.
  3. Explain to us why we should consider Obama’s proposals for the future.  You may cite some of his policy proposals to make your case.
  4. Critique his debate performances.  Do not tell me about his stump speech.  Stump speeches are meant to be inspiring and persuasive.  I’m only interested in your honest critique of his peformance in debates based on how he and only he handled gotcha questions and policy questions.  Consider this to be the face-to-face portion of an interview.  Debates also reach more people than stump speeches.
  5. Do not use rude or abusive language or you will be deleted.
  6. Conflucians, do not participate.  This thread is for Obama supporters only.

75 Responses

  1. Conflucians: i know it’s really hard to resist being snarky but you realy need to let them have this thread to themselves. If they want us to vote for this man in November, they are going to have to try to convince us based on OUR criteria. Snark will just invite conflict.
    Don’t do it.

  2. Argrr@#^%&!!!

    I’m dying to jump into this one.

    Why are we being punished?

  3. This has been up for nearly 2 hours and not one substantial response.

    If this was to demonstrate that there isn’t a good reason to support Obama, you couldn’t have done it better, riverdaughter.

  4. RD, I think you should let this thread stand as symbolic and illustrative.

  5. Darn, finally ready to post a comment and I have to wait for a new thread.

    This thread is priceless.

  6. What’s that the Boyz like to say?

    ….. crickets

  7. Little Otter has it up over at MyDD. It’ll be interesting to see if it fares better there.

  8. Little Otter added two rules:
    1. that the Barack Obama website couldn’t be cited.
    2. that if they’re going to list leadership skills as a reason, that they have to come up with examples of his leadership.

    http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/4/19/14844/9856

    Hilariously, the only Obama supporter to respond, said nothing except to suggest that LO go to Barry’s website.

    There is something about that man that makes smart people stupid.

    I wonder if Bob Johnson with his sublimely nuanced approached to campaigning will elect to, er, respond.

  9. So, Kip, BO’s health care plan is NOT universal… how is that a good thing?

    As my pseudo indicates, I am French where we have UHC (not socialized medicine) WITH mandates and what is recognized as the best health care system in the world.

    My understanding is then that you prefere BO BECAUSE he is not pro-UHC, am I correct?

  10. “One major reason I prefer Barack is that his plan only mandates health-care for minors.”

    Why is that a plus?

    “he has the ability to explain complex issues in a way that most people can understand his point of view, whether they agree with him or not.”

    Is that unique to Obama, or is that quality shared by Sen. Clinton?

    “To date, Barack has won the most states, delegates and votes.”

    Yes, but Hillary won MY vote.

    “I have to think that being a Law Professor would be a plus for anyone who wishes to lead this country out of the Constitutional crisis we’re now in.”

    Why? And didn’t Hillary go to law school, too? I did as well. I know that people teach Con Law in all sorts of ways and interpret the Constitution in all sorts of ways, some of which I agree with, some of which I don’t. Teaching Con Law does not = having an approach to the Constitution I would agree with or I would think is best for the country. Is there anything substantive about Sen. Obama’s beliefs about the Constitution that you can point to that he would translate into real policy when President?

  11. John Yoo = Law professor… need I say more?

  12. Frenchdoc, please don’t attack the poor guy. I don’t find his reasons compelling either but at least he’s making an earnest attempt. And some people really don’t want Universal Health Care. I don’t agree with that at all but they’re entitled to their opinion and can vote accordingly.

    I’m curious to see what other Obama supporters have to say.

  13. I didn’t think I was attacking. I was actually puzzled by the argument. But fair enough. I’ll be quiet.

  14. Kip: You are aware that Bill Clinton was formerly a law professor?

    Actually, both candidates and their spouses are lawyers.

    BTW – John Yoo (torture memo) is a law professor at UC Berkeley. do you really want to go down this road?

  15. 6. Conflucians, do not participate. This thread is for Obama supporters only.

    Don’t jump on them if you don’t disagree. Frankly, I don’t think Obama is even qualified to run for POTUS but let his supporters have their say.

  16. Sorry, above should be, “don’t agree”.

  17. kip: Even though some of the reasons you mentioned are the reasons why I don’t like Obama, I respect your opinion.

    Oh, and I am currently in law school. I would NOT want most (if not all) of these people to ever become president of the United States. Law professors suck (most of them).

  18. May I butt in and just add one question?

    I know we all know the differences between them on healthcare economic policy etc, but on safe climate policy:

    may I just ask why you believe he is more progressive when his energy policy is devised for him by a nuclear power CEO, a Bush I “EPA” official/Conoco-Phillips board member and 2 ethanol lobbyists, and like CheneyBush,

    excludes mention of the huge roles to be played by solar, wind, geothermal, wave energy, efficiency, feed in tariffs, utilities profit decoupling, Connie May loans or any of the other (Gore inspired) Clinton options to get us to a safe landing after the oil age without destabilising the climate past the point of no return.

    I would like an explanation of just how this energy policy based only on nuclear, ‘clean coal’ and ethanol will even last in the water constrained future we are in for.

  19. Mea culpa:

    Democrats always provide links to back up assertions-
    http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2008/3/14/221425/110

    energy advisors
    http://www.bipartisanpolicy.org/

  20. Obama was not a professor of law is was a lecturer, a huge difference. I floated this question out on other blogs and got cut and paste responses.
    Obama was supposedly a civil rights lawyer who spent a total of 5 hours in court. Unheard of for a civil rights lawyer.

  21. Sorry to interrupt, but since someone brought up health care, BO is running an attack ad against Hill re: health care.
    Firts Read has it.

  22. They seem to be having a bit more luck at MyDD. I don’t find their arguments very convincing (a lot of it seems like stuff one embellishes and uses to pad a resume) but it’s good to see that some of his supporters have actually done some research into his background. Is there a similar thread for Clinton supporters here? I’d love the opportunity to share why I support her.

  23. MH,

    Any thread will do!!

  24. tick tock…!

    no takers yet?

  25. lol, since the Obama supporters are so quiet, I’ll post my reasons for supporting CLINTON here. Move it or delete it if it’s in the wrong place.

    First of all, full disclosure, I’m Canadian so I guess my support doesn’t mean all that much but who you guys elect does affect things up here as well. I was originally a John Edwards supporter and I have to admit, I bought into the media portrayal of Hillary Clinton as a cold, calculating robo b*tch. After doing some research into her and watching some video of her online, I’ve completely changed my opinion and now I support her 100%. I have many reasons but here are some of the main ones:

    1. Universal Health Care: Hillary was for this way before it came in vogue. She suffered so much criticism and humiliation for it back in the 90s. Despite the defeat of her health care plan, she got back on her feet and pushed forward CHIP. She’s learned a lot from that experience and now she’s the only candidate who can bring Universal Health Care to every American. No, it’s not a single payer system like we have up in Canada as I would prefer it to be. But I think it’s a practical and realistic plan for the U.S.

    2. The Economy: Hillary’s the only candidate out of those remaining who actually understands the economy. I was blown away by the depth of her knowledge when she’s speaking about the economy, which is particularly evident during her appearance on Mad Money. She was the first candidate with proposals to address the mortgage crisis and she has the most detailed and well thought out policies out of all the candidates. As if that wasn’t enough, she actually knows how she’s going to pay for everything.

    3. Environmental Issues: She voted against the Bush-Cheney Energy Bill. Enough said. I also happen to like her ideas about Green jobs and investing in renewable energy.

    4. Foreign Policy Experience: She’s visited over 80 countries, including war zones as the First Lady representing the U.S. to foreign leaders and foreign cultures. And many of these trips were substantive, eg. Northern Ireland. I was very upset when she embellished her Bosnia trip because it was completely unnecessary. The fact that she went there at all when it was a war zone speaks for itself. To me, first hand experience >>>> studying foreign relations out of textbooks.

    5. She’s intelligent and articulate: This is plain to see from any of her interviews or debates. It’d be nice to have a president who doesn’t need to rely on a teleprompter.

    6. She’s a fighter: she’s been attacked for decades from just about every direction but she’s still standing and she’s still going strong. I’m confident that, as president, she’ll have the toughness to stand up to special interests and get things done.

    7. She’s a woman: this might sound like a frivolous reason for some people but I think it’s about time there was a female president. Especially considering the rampant misogyny that still exists, which has been just appalling this primary season, I think it would open a lot of doors and send a powerful message throughout the US and around the world.

    Those are just a few of many reasons. I’d love to keep going but I have two exams to study for!

  26. Hey, MH, that’s cheating!

  27. like wow man i luv obama

    ya know what i’m sayin? like for sure

    he is so ultra cool and hip and i luv him

    i jus wish you hillary supporters would stop being so mean to us cause we know what is real man

    too bad all sites aren’t like daily kos which totally rules

    i can give you hundreds of reasons why i luv obama

    yes hundreds

    maybe thousands

    but mommy says dinner is ready so i gotta go bye

  28. I thought we weren’t allowed to snark.

  29. Maybe the Obots are embarassed about his health care plan? Well, the Obama campaign just launched a right wingesque health care attack ad attacking health care mandates. Thats so liberal/progressive (oh wait its common sense now) of Obama….

    http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/04/19/921286.aspx

  30. I just want to thank you all for helping to keep me sane. A few days until PA, baby! Let’s keep this party going and take it to IN and NC.

  31. Eye of the Tiger, everyone!

    “Face to face — out in the heat
    Hangin’ tough, stayin’ hungry
    They stack the odds still we take to the street
    For the kill, with the skill to survive”

  32. Guys, I was hoping to hear only from the Obama people. If you jump on and start challenging you aren’t letting them make their points without triggering an emotional response. Just let them write and dont interrupt.

  33. RD: What do you mean by “them?”

    There ain’t nobody here but us chickens

  34. Riverdaughter – I have a suggestion and a suggestion only and it may not be a good idea .. perhaps you could start an open thread .. I think some Hillary supporters may want a place to talk about what’s going on right now with Hillary and him .. in PA . and perhaps we may be just over exuberant to jump at anything . .. lol .. just a thought ..

  35. riverdaughter:

    Are you gonna open the GD floor for us already? This looks like a reeeeeeeally good one to take a whack at.

    I’m dreaming of a home run (HR) here.

  36. With all the thrills going up people’s legs you’d imagine this thread would be hoppin’.

  37. The Clinton-ites have proven so negative and Republican oriented that I don’t care about your beliefs. The only way I want Obama to win the general election is without you, so we don’t have to put up with your ilk any further.

    And the general election is all that’s left, the nomination is all over for all but the most delusional. Like Billary and the news media, who desperately want a race to keep their ratings up.

  38. Correntewire has the response to Jay-Z’s “Dirt on your shoulder”:

    No Scrubs by TLC

  39. ok…i will give it a shot…even though i am neutral…but since no one else is invovled and saying anything…i will play the *evils advocate and give some reasons…why i support obama…

    1. because if you don’t, his supporters call you a bigot…

    when i can think of another one…i will post it….

  40. wordsseldomsaid: Would you support Hillary if we call you sexist?

    Sorry RD, I really, really couldn’t resist.

  41. I’m for Hillary but I know the reason they want him, I think:

    (1) he’s a man of color, not another white man, and he’s lived abroad.
    (2) he spoke out against the war, and they didn’t
    (3) he plays to left-leaning libertarians, who don’t want to be forced to purchase health care if they’d rather take their chances
    (4) they don’t want to see the Clinton movie again, and they blame Bill for not having handled things such that the pugs couldn’t attack him
    (5) he’s not a baby boomer, they think the baby boomers are the biggest fuck ups, they’re sick of baby boomers
    (6) he isn’t all that old and he looks even younger
    (7) he makes them laugh with his Chicago Smack Down, they like to see him give Hillary disrespect and do sarcastic put downs, he reminds them of Comedy Central
    (8) he understands their fears, that there will be no social security for them, and the old have stacked the deck against the young
    (9) He understands their sense of fair play, that it isn’t the outcome it’s whether or not things feel fair
    (9) he’s like a movie star, he plays a candidate on TV as much as he is one
    (10) He knows not much can get done, and he doesn’t aim to try and then disappoint.
    (11) He wants his supporter to feel good, and he tries to entertain them and let them run loose
    (12) he gives them a sense of empowerment and importance, and they’ve been feeling helpless and hopeless, so power by proxy feels good

    How do you think I did Goldberry?

  42. Riverdaughter,

    Sincere apologies for being off topic. But this is simply too good to pass:

    http://newsbusters.org/blogs/jeff-poor/2008/04/19/helen-thomas-blasts-obama-media-coverage-he-no-martin-luther-king

    Helen Thomas Blasts Obama Media Coverage: ‘He is No Martin Luther King’

  43. Mylq2xu….I’m still laughing at your remark! But if loomis news is serious that is not funny. If you think you can elect your guy without all of the Democrats then you are starting a third party and you need to pick a new name. How about the ,Superior Party, your motto can be ” we already got ours and we don’t want to worry about you getting yours” . You know the two favorite websites of Obama supporters , Huffpo and Daily Kos are run by former Republicans. I think these people just got embarrassed by W and the wing nuts and deciided to crash our Party. Do you think any of the establishment figures in our Party who have backed him really want Change? Pelosi, Kennedy, Kerry, Leahy do they really want change in their little worlds of personal power?

  44. Ana, I think you’ve made the same arguments McCain can (sort of):

    1. McCain is so pale he is virtually colorfree. He could be the “translucent candidate”
    2. Obama was against the war before he was for it. But he has been no more opposed to the war for the last four years than Hillary. He has had his subordinantes state that he really doesn’t intend to get all the troops out. And he will not declars an end to mercenary forces. So, he’s actually more pro-war than Hillary, just like McCain.
    4. McCain doesn’t want Clinton in the White House again.
    5. McCain isn’t a baby boomer either (as far as I can tell) .
    6. How many times over the last eight years have we begged to have the grownups back is charge? Hillary is an adult and she acts like one.
    7. I laugh at McCain a lot. I laugh at Obama a lot. I laugh with Hillary.
    8. I do believe thay are frightened children. and Obama uses that. But McCain can play to their fears as well as Obama.
    9. Give me a break. They do not give “fairness” a second thought. They do not understand the concept. Fair is when they get their way. Otherwise everyone’s cheating. Much like Republicans.
    9. Yes, Republicans do like their actor presidents. Once again Hillary is in this for real.
    10. McCain also has low expectations and puts little effort into anything
    11. Like a bunch of kids. Obama never checks to see if they have sharp objects when he shoos them out to play. McCain is asleep when the kids go out to play.
    12. As long as they aren’t expected to put that power to any good use. Yes, it is just wonderful to bully the rest of the country. But, when it all goes to hell, Obama will blame Hillary, again. Just like McCain.

  45. Hi Riverdaughter,

    You probably haven’t gotten many responses from Obama supporters because the posture of this post is one that really cannot be taken seriously. I mean just think about it, we should state our case in the form of a job interview? This is not a game. Perhaps you could write a more serious post and we, Obama supporters, would be happy to dialogue with you. I say that with the utmost humbleness.

  46. anna shane: You did fine. Nice to see you again.

  47. 9) He understands their sense of fair play, that it isn’t the outcome it’s whether or not things feel fair
    (9) he’s like a movie star, he plays a candidate on TV as much as he is one
    ….edit…
    (11) He wants his supporter to feel good, and he tries to entertain them and let them run loose
    (12) he gives them a sense of empowerment and importance, and they’ve been feeling helpless and hopeless, so power by proxy feels good

    it seems like someone else did that once before and it worked out great for him…well for a while it worked out great…what was his name…?..something like…

    addie…
    ado…
    adol…

    what was his name?…hmmm…if i remember i will post it later…

  48. “wordsseldomsaid: Would you support Hillary if we call you sexist? ”

    lolol….

  49. Hope and change and hope and change and change and hope.

  50. Okay, here goes.

    #1. He is really hopeful
    #2. I believe in him
    #3. He believes in himself
    #4. We are the change we need (or is it believe?)
    #5. His speeches make me feel warm and fuzzy inside- I’ve even seen people faint while attending them.
    #6. His positions are vague enough to leave me room to believe he represents what I want accomplished while my best friend who holds entirely different positions sees in his campaign platform of change and hope his own views and hopes- so if he is everything to everyone he must be electable!
    #7. Did I mention that he is REALLY hopeful?!

    Well that is all for now…

  51. I like that he was raised by secular parents

    I like that he has strong grassroots support, and that his campaign isn’t mostly financed by corporations.

    I like that he has never been a republican and that he has never worked closely with wal-mart.

    I like that he picks good people to run a quality campaign, and that they fought for states that others
    dismissed.

    I like that he swings republicans, and that he isn’t universally hated by half the country.

    I like the fact that his campaign is generally positive and doesn’t resort to cliche attack ads.

    I like that he is inspiring in a way that reminds many people of our historic leaders in the 60s.

    I like the fact that he is mixed race and of a different cultural background.

    I like all his plans for presidency, which are nearly identical to Hillary’s.

    I don’t think he debates well because juvenile bloggers and pundits are anxious to pounce on his every word and turn it into some kind of fiasco. He can’t even scratch his nose without legions of swift-boat-believing hyper-sensitive jealous Hillary supporters turning it into a scandal.

  52. I have never seen an Obama supporter give an issue based reason for supporting him. If an Obama supporter came here with good factual based support for his or her position the people here would debate them not rip them apart. Isn’t that what we want. But they come here and accuse us of playing games. That’s a very immature position of someone who only has an emotional support for a candidate. Thats okay but just understand why you are supporting them not for rational reasons but emotional.
    You can’t lose that argument because no one can tell someone how to be emotional.

  53. The following points were slipped under my door by someone who has read-only internet access, so they asked me to post for them:
    ——————-

    He wants to talk to Iran, and I think I left my car keys at their place a couple of weeks ago but I haven’t been able to call them because we’re not talking to him, and I figured maybe he could ask for me.

    He wants people to be healthy but he doesn’t want to make people do stuff, and that’s cool because I hate it when people make me do stuff but I still want to be healthy.

    He looks different enough that he isn’t boring but not so different that he’s scary or anything.

  54. Reasons to support Barack Obama in the Presidential Campaign if he wins the Democratic nomination:

    First of all, this has been a historic campaign because two exceptional Democratic candidates are competing for the ’08 Democratic nomination. The one who wins will almost surely be the next President of the United States. Our country is ready for significant change and both candidates are committed to returning government to the people.

    Should Senator Obama become the Democratic candidate I believe he is worthy of support for the following reasons. He has a fresh vision for America. He is able to galvanize people in common cause to reform the political system and reverse the direction followed during the past eight years. He demonstrates his ability to bring differing groups together through his wide range of support across racial, cultural, age and party lines. He helps to bring new voters into the Democratic Party in significant numbers, reversing a trend of declining voter participation during the past eight years.

    Obama demonstrates both leadership and managerial skills in the success of his campaign thus far, as well as in his record as a productive United States Senator and previously as an Illinois State Senator. Obama’s campaign has successfully integrated paid and volunteer staff into a seamlessly effective unit both nationally and within individual communities. People work together within the campaign with minimal friction and with shared respect. Paid and volunteer staff are well trained for their respective roles. Campaign efficiency is further demonstrated by excellent public access to a well-organized web site where policy material and candidate biographical information are readily accessible. Daily updates on campaign developments are informative and public comments are always welcome. Fundraising has been an exceptionally well-managed aspect of this campaign, forming a new model for campaign fund-raising practice.

    The international community is excited by Obama’s prospective presidency and his taking office will greatly contribute to healing the Bush-created rift between America and the international community. Obama’s willingness to negotiate with those differing in view from ourselves will help restore diplomacy as America’s preeminent tool in international relations. Obama’s multicultural, biracial background contributes to the breadth of his international understanding and will assist him in discussions with varying members of the international community. His background will specifically assist in diplomacy with Near Eastern and African communities. These have been areas of ignored or mishandled relations during the previous administration, contributing not only to an increasing national security threat for our country, but also to economic deprivation and humanitarian hardship, especially in sub-Saharan Africa.

    Obama is a powerful and persuasive orator. His recent Philadelphia speech is a case in point, not to mention his speech on race that may go down as one of the great American speeches of all time. In large gatherings often assembled for Obama’s rallies, Obama is able to galvanize support for the Democratic cause to an extent not experienced in recent times. This energy has coalesced into a national movement promising to change the complexion of American politics for this generation. Obama’s speeches have shown his ability to lift a debate from what might be considered petty issues to a level of universal human concern promoting a reexamination of individual and national conscience.

    If the affirmative tone of Obama’s speeches contributes to a more convincing tone in debate, then Senator Obama will be absolutely unstoppable as a Presidential candidate. Obama can improve his debate technique to equal his oratory in concise delivery of campaign points. A clearer, more affirmative approach in debate will strengthen his candidacy in the months ahead. Senator Obama’s sincerity comes through in debate, however, allowing him to gain positive result when technique fails. He also displays an even temperament under fire that is appealing and reassuring to voters.

    Senator Obama will probably debate more comfortably against a Republican candidate than he has thus far. I sense Obama has taken seriously his responsibility not to fracture the Democratic Party over policy and personality differences between Democratic candidates. If I am right, this feeling of responsibility makes it difficult for him to respond as directly to attack from a fellow Democrat as he would from a Republican contender.

    Obama tends to cross-question his ideas while presenting them in debate; this is a habit to avoid in future. This habit, while appropriate in thoughtful discussion, makes him sometimes seem hesitant in debate. Senator Obama is also conscious of all sides of an issue, wishing to address all aspects at once. Debates such as the ones ahead may demand a more direct approach.

    Senator Obama’s sincerity, his optimism combined with unflappability in the face of difficult circumstances, and his compassion for people are his greatest attributes. Obama is convinced in the power of the American people to bring about change once their energy is harnessed. Obama is the one to bring this energy together to transform American politics for this generation and beyond. He has issued a clarion call to the American people that will resonate through American history from this point forward. We all have an opportunity to be part of this great movement and to contribute our combined energy toward its success.

    Doug Robinson
    dbr@bresnan.net

  55. Douglas you have presented a good argument for supporting Obama I don’t agree with someone the things but I think thats good. Discussion is good. Unfortunately many Hillary supporters have not been presented with that kind of reasoning but rather hateful diatribes against us reinforce our commitment to Hillary.
    It would be good if we all could have a issue by issue discussion but I think it maybe too late.

  56. What issues does Obama have that Hillary supporters extremely disagree with? The policy choices of the two candidates are both extremely similar and progressive. If I wanted to argue issues, I would go to a neo-con blog.

    “That’s a very immature position”

    preceded by such comments as…

    “There is something about that man that makes smart people stupid.”

    “but mommy says dinner is ready so i gotta go bye”

    “I laugh at Obama a lot”

    “His speeches make me feel warm and fuzzy inside- I’ve even seen people faint while attending them”

  57. ” He has a fresh vision for America.”

    such as?…i hear this a lot, but it is always a baseless claim, or rather, one that is never given a base when it is made…

    it is like…

    “obama has the plan to save america”…

    ok…what is it…exactly?…pumping up speeches are cool…i love them…saying we need change is great…saying i will bring change is smart(even bush said he thought that was the way to go in an election)…

    but…what is this “fresh vision”?…please explain in details… and how he plans to make it happen…thanks…

  58. show me: My “guy?”

    You do realize that Hillary is female, don’t you?

  59. I don’t think to intent of the original post was to ask someone why they supported Obama I think that’s what he attempted. Give him the courage to do it.
    I am a big time Hillary supporter and will have trouble voting for Obama in the fall if he gets the nomination. I would like to know why I should vote for him. I don’t think we should blanketly rip people for trying to come up for reasons for supporting him. I can think of enough for not supporting him.

  60. Hillary’s first job in Arkansas (the one immediately after she served on the Nixon impeachment committee staff, one of 3 women lawyers out of 44 lawyers) was teaching law at the University of Arkansas. She taught criminal law and trial advocacy the first semester and criminal procedures the second semester. Her boyfriend, soon to be husband, Bill Clinton was also teaching at the U. of Arkansas (he obtained permission to teach and run for Congress). One of Bill Clinton’s classes was constitutional law and he discussed Roe v. Wade for several weeks.

    According to Carl Bernstein (“A Woman in Charge,” p. 109): “He was considered the easiest grader in the law school. Hillary’s exams were tough, and her grading commensurate with what she expected serious law students to know.”

    “There was little doubt that she was the better teacher, possessed with an ‘unusual ability to absorb a huge amount of facts and boil them down to the bottom line.’ ( The quote is from Wood Bassett who worked in many Clinton campaigns.)

    During this year, Hillary Rodham was a full-time law professor. Obama’s courses were taught while he was a State Senator. The reason that Obama could write his books and teach classes is because being a legislature in Illinois is part-time. George W. Bush was Governor of Texas, but the citizens of Texas wanted to keep the position weak, and the Texas legislature meets part-time, too. Being governor of Arkansas, however, was a full-time job.

  61. Douglas Robinson,

    I respect your position and your feelings about Obama, but much of what you describe, I have not seen in evidence.

    I’ve seen an unaccomplished state senator, who conspired with a senior member of the legislature, to puff up his record, and hasn’t held on meeting in the committee he chairs, a chairmanship unheard of in freshmen Senators.

    I’ve seen a candidate willing to write off half the votes of his base, because he believes he can appeal to people outside our bases, and have different agendas than we do.

    I’ve seen a candidate who has such negligible knowledge of policy that he stumbles through easy debates(the recent one does not qualify as easy for him), and we have no experience whatsoever to guess how he might act against a Republican opponent, since he has never had one.

    I see a candidate who has lost his composure with the recent rise in hostility to him from the press, a trend by the media that will not abate anytime soon. And I have not yet seen him demonstrate an ounce of the compassion that is attributed to him.

    I was very open to supporting Obama at the beginning, though I initially went for Edwards. HRC was dead last on my list of viable candidates, but as the campaign wore on, I didn’t hear policy from Obama. I was disgusted with him and Edwards for the piling on her in one debate. He has made derogatory and sexist remarks. And his supporters are horrible, becoming the brownshirts of the blogosphere, and totally forgetting the concept of coalition building. It will take a great deal of change from the Senator, to get my (red state) vote.

  62. Barack Obama has superior judgement. He was outspoken against the invasion and occupation of Iraq since the beginning. He also does not take money from corporations or PAC’s. In case you don’t know the corporate ownership of the media is a huge threat to democracy. Globalization has given multi national corporations enormous power. For instance: Monsanto has more power than most countries..which is why you never hear about them in the news. These multi national corporations control politics with lobbyists. The fact that Obama does not take their money is reason enough to vote for him, but the fact that he does not take their money shows his intelligence and integrity as well as his commitment to bringing democracy back to us. He has empowered us already just by the way he organised his campaign. He gave us the training and tools to organise in a grassroots way that allows us to have enormous power..the kind of power we will need to fight the corporate control of this country and the world. If he can do that in his campaign imagine what he can do as the president! He is our last chance to save this country. Do you realise where all the money from the taxpayers is going in the name of war? It’s going straight into the pockets of private corporations like Haliburton and Blackwater. Those same corporations support the candidates who will let them continue to rob the middle class with legislation that favors them. He is the ONLY candidate that does not take their money and thanks to his intelligent organising does not need to. WE are financing OUR campaign with grassroots money. Like he says:”Change happens from the bottom up” Do you know that Monsanto controls 70 percent of the world’s food supply through patents on seeds? Probably not. Wake up! There is good reason that the most educated support Obama!

  63. One more thing.
    If you have been following this election closely and have not read both of Barack’s books and read the issues and stances published on his website and seen him speak whether live or on video than there is not much I can tell you that will sink in. Your mind is either closed or unable to absorb or retain nuanced information…I have better things to do with my time like calling undecided voters in PA and having real and thoughtful conversations with them.

  64. Lisa, why on earth should I have to read his books and his websites to figure out who he is? Can’t he tell me?

  65. wordsseldomsaid: My husband is also an obama supporter.

    I can remember watching Hillary and Elizabeth Dole speak about why we should support Bill Clinton/Bob Dole and turning to my husband and saying that I wish Hillary and Elizabeth were running! I have hoped Hillary would run for president ever since then. She has continued to impress me with her strength and support of liberal causes over the years since that election.

    I think at some level I feel a certain amount of responsibility for the beating she is taking because I was one of the voices encouraging her to run. I’m am so glad she is running for the nomination, but I wouldn’t have wished what is happening to her on anyone. I feel bad that she has been so maligned by the things coming out of the obama campaign and the media, I think this makes it difficult for me to see good in obama.

  66. hi jjm,
    i personally do not support anyone but am neutral…i do however wish to hear why people on both sides support their candidate…

    river girl, river daughter…yeah that is it, seems to be one of the more intelligent people i have heard from any side so far imo…that is the reason why i come here often to see what is going on….

    she even allows questions without resorting to calling ugly names…unlike what i have seen at “every” obama camp site i have been to…that alone is a major thing to consider in my book…

    lisa f. says,
    “He is our last chance to save this country.”

    this seems like nothing more than a fear tactic statement…the republicans used it alot in the eighties and it did work fine didn’t it…it is a polically smart thing to say during hard times…but, can you prove obama is the last chance, or does it just sound catchy so you decided to say it?…if you cannot prove the statement, then it is nothing more than an emotional play, void of any real substance…and certainly not something that should be the reason for someone to vote for him…

    lisa says,
    ” There is good reason that the most educated support Obama!”

    seems like elitism plain and simple…to tell the rest of the poor uneducated slobs like MYSELF…to vote obama because you have went to school and you are going to, is not a valid reason for us to vote for him… and may even be a reason in our minds to vote against him…be careful with these type of statements, for they can easily backfire…. and i do believe many of the “most educated” are supporting hillary and mccain as well…

  67. wordsseldomsaid: Hi! I am a strong supporter of civil liberties (for EVERYONE), but can’t really align Libertarian because I think government needs to provide protection for our liberties and ensure all americans can enjoy the rights and protections of our Bill of Rights and the Constitution.

    I think one of the most compelling reasons to support Hillary is that she believes healthcare should be a right for ALL americans and not just a privilege. Without mandates, people who are young and “healthy” opt out. They do get sick. It would be just like today where the people without insurance show up in emergency rooms and then the hospital has to write off the care provided – but really what they do is peanutbutter the cost on to everyone with insurance. The only way to make sure the cost of coverage is affordable is everyone participate, (even healthy, young people) so the emergency room isn’t the primary care provider.

  68. Oh, I forgot, Riverdaughter and the rest of this community seem to be the most insightful, reasonable and kind that I’ve seen. This is the only blog where I participate – but I read many.

  69. Obama is not a progressive candidate and embodies no true “change” for our country.

    he was quoted in the July 27, 2004 Chicago Tribune as saying, “There’s not that much difference between my position and George Bush’s position at this stage. The difference, in my mind, is who’s in a position to execute.”

    &

    January 2005 he has voted to approve every war appropriation the Republicans have put forward, totaling over $300 billion.

    or

    voted to reauthorize the Patriot Act in July 2005,

    None of these actions dignify a progressive candidate. He voted against capping interest rates, the first federal regulation ever. He voted to take away the right of class action cases to be heard in state courts, diverting them all into Bush stacked overworked federal courts.

    I also look at the media. The reason the Dems nominated a horrid candidate like Kerry, was because the media sold him to us. We bought the story.

    And in this election as well, we have bought the story of what Obama will do and of what he believes in. They set us up before and they are doing it now. IMO, we are on the verge of losing another election that we should have won, all because of the media.

  70. Douglas Robinson: There’s no there there. Everything you wrote boils down to, “He makes us feel good.” That and $4.02 will get you a latte at Starbucks.

  71. I see no, zero, solar or wind funding in his clean energy plan, other than funding for a little research into it.

    When other nations have already moved to actually implement Solar and Wind power, because of specific clever legislation like in Hillary’s plan, it is long past the time to relegate Solar and Wind to just a few measly research dollars.

    I am a Al Gore climate voter, (they don’t even exit poll for the urgency of ‘saving us from extinction’) so I know I am just a tiny portion of the electorate.

    I would have much less trouble switching, if he would just include all the Socolow/Paclov wedges in his climate plan, like Hillary does. You simply will not get to a safe climate on ethanol and nuke power alone, like his advisors at the Bipartisan Policy Center want.

    I know she did not get along with Gore, but she knows the science and includes all the neccessities, per Gore, the NRDC and the Pew Climate Report.

    Someone who follows the public good proposals, even when there is personal animosity, is the kind of public servant who will spend our $150 billion to really switch our economy. (they both plan $150 billion over 10 yrs.)

    We only have one chance at this. Its the next few years or nuthin.

    Quite apart from the tipping points we are rolling over, all the other nations getting on board first will make the materials prohibitively expensive for the remaining nations that are slower to get on board.

    Nations that do not move on this for 10 years, will become third world economies by 2050, right about the time that the Obama plan nuke plants will need decommissioning, and all our fuel crops will have drained our Ogalla aquifer.

    More Solar and Wind and less Ethanol and Nukes, please.

  72. I’m with you on the solar and climate issues. I’ll take the latte to from DCDemocrat and write on. (G) There’s something to be said for feeling good. Our entire nation wants to feel better about where we are. We certainly need new policies though. I hope that once the Democratic competition is over we can combine best elements of both platforms. Your letter presents unarguable truth in my view. I am solidly for Obama in this contest, but I think both democratic candidates promise a new start. I also think Hilary Clinton offers a significant departure from Bill Clinton’s old positions, and I mean no disrespect to Bill by that statement. I just think she’s got her own free mind and she knows how to use it. That’s why I’m not keen on our campaign jumping on her about past Clinton NAFTA positions etc. I think she deserves a chance to express her own views and she’s done that fair and square.

    I also respect her initial vote on Iraq by the way. I can’t argue with Obama’s use of it as a campaign tactic especially if his anti war position is attacked. The point is though that both candidates are solidly against continuing the war and both would do an effective job of bringing our involvement to an end in my view.

    Whoever wins this contest, Clinton or Obama, our big task will be to bring these two bands of committed supporters together into the most effective team possible for the eventual Democratic candidate. This entire exercise will have little point if members of one camp avoid voting are helping out the eventual winner because of their favorite’s loss of the initial contest.

    Once the Democratic race is decided, I think it’s important for members of both camps to come together to create a united platform as much as they can anyway. Policy positions between the two candidates are not so different that modifications in one platform or the other wouldn’t be possible without sacrificing content. Also areas of weakness or vagueness on one side or the other could be strengthened. The united Democratic platform may assist with some of this, but I wouldn’t rely totally on that process for addressing every issue of concern between these two competing camps.

    Aeryl and I obviously have differing interpretations of the same information. I respect your conclusions also, Aeryl, but I do not agree. I can only ask that you reconsider your positions if Obama does in fact win the Democratic nomination. I think you might come to different conclusions on at least some of the points you make if you take them in the broader context of what was going on around them at the time. Your comments about Obama’s voting for reenactment of the Patriot act and his comment that little would distinguish his position from Bush in that particular instance are cases in point. Look at his overall stance, as I am willing to look at Clinton’s. Neither of them really favor the Patriot act and they both strongly oppose the war. The excesses of this past administrations have forced both of them to maneuver as best they could to advance the cause of freedom against the fear-based oppression that has really terrorized us all during the past eight years.

    Finally, I agree with tj and I appreciate all tj said. I think tj’s comments effectively sum up my lengthy paragraphs here. I hope we can indeed continue a respectful and productive discussion to insure that one of these great individuals does in fact become the next president of the United States.

    Best Wishes to everyone, and keep the faith for a Democratic victory no matter what happens in the coming weeks!

    And by all means fire back at me on any of this. It’s always good to talk and I really appreciate all the great ideas you’ve suared with all of us here. So does Lisa F. I’m sure. She’s certainly written great stuff here.

    Doug Robinson

  73. Blessed are the evenhanded, Doug, for you shall unite us in the Fall.

    While I am baffled at my fellow progressives going with the less Democrat-like candidate, and I will fight till the end (till Supers vote – I hope in June) to get a Democrats Democrat in office, I will prevent another Republican if it comes down to that.

  74. Just realised I didn’t include links, how un-Democratic of me.

    Sorry to you-tubify your site with unlinked allegations, riverdaughter.

    Start at Grist for overview
    http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2008/3/14/221425/110

    or go right to The Bipartisan Policy center energy pages
    http://www.bipartisanpolicy.org/ht/d/sp/i/596/pid/596

    they also offer “bipartisan” foreign policy etc as well for Obama

Comments are closed.

%d bloggers like this: