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To our new Obama supporter visitors

Welcome to The Confluence!  We are glad you stopped by.  You have probably dropped in before but for some reason, today was the day you chose to comment.  And, hey, we’re all for free speech and first amendment and all that.  We know you have a choice of blogs to register your opinion.  We would like to encourage you to exercise that choice and express your opinion somewhere else, especially if you insist on insulting us or our friends.

This is not censorship.  Censorship would be a situation where I am deleting your comments and you had nowhere else to post them.  This is not the case.  I am deleting you because you are rude and obnoxious and you have plenty of other places to go to be rude and obnoxious.  You can go to DailyKos, Talkingpointsmemo, HuffingtonPost or any number of other sites where you will feel more at home and we will feel more comfortable. There are places and times to behave badly and The Confluence is not one of those places.  Likewise, the campaign trail in North Carolina was probably not the best place for Obama to make rude and obnoxious gestures (note the plural), especially right before a high-stakes primary.  If you feel he might have gone too far, you might want to have a talk with HIM, not US.

If you go elsewhere, we will not be offended.  Rest assured, we know what your position is (anti-Clinton) and we can predict with relatively good precision what you would like to say.  So, there is no reason to belabor your point here.  But keep it up everywhere else!  The material you are providing is priceless and, indeed, we wouldn’t be here today without all of your efforts.

Oh, by the way, thanks for the confirmation that we have really struck a nerve.  Your comments are hillariously funny.  I can almost read the flop sweat.

Thanks and have a nice day.  🙂

The Proprietress

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140 Responses

  1. Uh oh. Are Obama fans delivering more of their hope and change we’ve come to expect from “progressives.”

    I’ve been busy of late and haven’t had the time to read and comment as I’d like.

  2. RD:

    What’s wrong, are the septic tanks at the Obamaphile sites overfowing?

    Or do they just miss us, like abusers “miss” their victims?

  3. Riverdaughter – I’m new to your site and it is such a breath of fresh air.
    Can I just tell you how awesome you and your statements are ?

  4. It does not appear that anyone in our ‘esteemed’ journalist class has asked Obama about the ‘scratch’. I would like to hear his response. If he says it was only a scratch and nothing more, then voters will be able to decide if they believe him or not. Then, I would like the media to ask him if he suddenly discovered that he had dandruff on his shoulder during the speech, or was it in reality a reference to that rap song that I am too uncool to have ever heard of. Finally, I would like the media to ask him what message he was sending by studying the bottom of his shoe during the speech. Granted, I am not an expert in public speaking, but it seem to me that the middle of a live speech to a large group of people would be a bad time to groom oneself and /or to clean the soles of ones shoes. Or maybe it is just me.

  5. Hope McChange: His finger pointing the way.

  6. riverdaughter,
    Thanks for deleting the comments. We regard your blog as a safehouse and a comfortable place for Hillary supporters to come together.
    Thanks for not allowing them to ruin it as they have other previously good blogs.

    Too bad that you have to actually read the ‘flop sweat’ , glad I don’t have to…

    myiq2xu, Yes and Yes.

  7. Barry’s a creep. Just had to get that out. 🙂

  8. ‘but it seems to me that the middle of a live speech to a large group of people would be a bad time to groom oneself and /or to clean the soles of ones shoes. Or maybe it is just me.’

    me too Honora

  9. Seriously, do you have any idea just how awesome you are? Really? I’ve said it before, but thank you so much for creating this spot on the web for those of us who are free from CDS. You’re my first click of the day.

    On a different note, I’ll be heading down to Erie for the next few days to stump for Hillary. I plan on doing my best to get out the vote and get her to a double digit victory come Tuesday!

  10. Thank you riversdaughter for taking this position regarding the abusive Obama supporters. As you say, they have multiple blogs on which their crap is not only an acceptable form of discourse but is cheered wildly. Let them continue to crap in their own homes and not here.

  11. They are doing it to NoQuarter today too. Most be an Axelrod astroturfing call to action. This whole display is so much like facism. It’s like the entire information supply line is controlled by Obamaphiles. There is a Fox News interview with Hill yesterday and they show her a Philly newspaper headline, “Viewers Upset with Debate”, or something, with a picture of Obama. And, I am thinking of all but the last Gibson debate, where Hillary was the target of everyone, including the moderator. I’m thinking how merely noting the unfair treatment was ridiculed, but when it’s Obama, suddenly a few tough character questions, and we get that headline. Frankly, that was the good part of the debate for him, he got creamed on the issues, which I suppose is what this entire distraction is about.

  12. rd: You are the best! You have created a sanctuary from those ill informed dolts who tried to invade. That is all I have to offer but you can ascertain through the others a big heap of thanks.

  13. I’m guessing Mr. Hope & Unity didn’t clear his gestures with his boss, David Axelrod.

    The obots trolls have been flooding the Pro-Hillary sites disputing that he was flipping the bird.

    Meanwhile, as the comments in Matt Y’s site show, the Obamalama-ding-dongs think it was the bird and they think it is sooooo kewl and funny.

  14. Keith Olbermann complaining about ABC’s debate (surely other MSNBC talking heads did too, but I cannot verify) was pretty funny, especially after Tim Russert’s near heart-attack going after Hillary in one of the earlier ones. Give me a break.

    The debate q’s did suck, but Barack should stop whining about it – you know – the same “advice” Hillary backers were given by the Obama crowd.

  15. I doubt Obama was flipping her the bird. I don’t have any doubts about Barack being a condescending a-hole, however.

  16. Ha! I’ve seen the astroturfing going on at NoQuarter and TalkLeft today. They are really freaking out.

    Coming on the heels of that horrible debate performance Wednesday night, they should be.

    Come on, Tuesday! 🙂

  17. Marco: three points

    1. It was definitely a 1-finger scratch, and he used his middle finger. Some videos are not clear on this but at least one is very clear.

    2. The crowd laughed and cheered, and it is clear they thought he was giving Hillary the finger. Otherwise, what were they reacting to?

    3. Obama pauses for the reaction, but never looks up. If he wasn’t expecting a reaction, why didn’t he look up to see what the crowd was cheering about? There was no other reason for him to expect a reaction, he hadn’t said an “applause” line or anything else. If it was an unconcious act, the cheers should have startled him.

  18. Ah, but Marco, you just can’t see it yet. I’ve watched BO long enough to know, he knew what he was doing.

  19. I’ll have to watch it again I guess, but I scratch my face with my birdy a lot. In the two vids I watched, I didn’t get the impression he was doing that.

    Generally speaking, it’s odd how I and many others have gone from liking Barack but preferring Hillary to strongly disliking the guy. I used to have lots of respect for him, and not to go all broken record on y’all, I voted for him in 2004. Now I can barely watch him speak. His Annie Oakley garbage was a real low point for Senator Hopey McChange.

    I was out with a good friend and Obama supporter last night. We discussed his recent gaffes and even she agrees that because of “bitter” (innocuous as those comments seemed to her and myself) Wright and his lame brain declaration that he has more foreign policy experience than McCain and Hillary because he spent a few years as a child in Indonesia, etc., we’re doomed with him in the fall should he win. Doomed.

    It’s Barack Dukakis 2008 should our party continue its slide into dementia.

  20. Great post!

  21. Yes, thank you for deleting obnoxious comments from Obama followers. I just saw on Taylor Marsh’s site that some of them are using her name to post comments on other blogs. Is there no limit to the juvenile, hateful things they are willing to do in their worship of this guy?

    And Marco, he was definitely flipping her off. In addition to the reasons myiq gives, I must sadly admit this is one area in which I have some expertise. My sister and I spent the better part of our teens (okay, well into early adulthood, okay, we sometimes still do it) surreptitiously flipping the bird to each other after one of us had done something to annoy the other. So, as a self-proclaimed expert witness in this field, believe me, he did it.

    How proud Oprah will be when he does this to Putin.

  22. Is it just me, or do we have a LOT of new commenters lately?

    Welcome everybody!

  23. How proud Caroline Kennedy, who did as much as anyone to give Obama credibility and legitimacy earlier this year, must be after yesterday’s BO performance. Can you imagine what the reaction of her late mother would have been?

  24. Obama isn’t a Marxist (sorry, National Review!), but he is a Leninist! I was mulling over this idea that we’ve all had our fun, voting here and there, but now we have a candidate and we need to “shut this thing down” (as a Kos diary said yesterday), and I thought, wow, this all sounds familiar! I studied this stuff back in college. It’s “democratic centralism,” Lenin’s contribution to the theory of the Marxist political party.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_centralism

    Credit where credit is due: Republicans are masters of this stuff. Look at them now–except for the truly lunatic fringe, they’re all McCainiacs as if the early primaries with all their vitriol never happened. But that hasn’t been our tradition as Democrats. This has, to be fair, made us losers, and I’d be sympathetic to a purely pragmatic argument that we need to “shut this down” because winning in November is more important that Clinton’s hurt feelings or our own. But that’s not what I am hearing–instead, I’m hearing that we need to shut up because the delegate totals prove that we are wrong and that we need to expiate the sin of having supported another candidate. That’s what Lenin was on about–it’s not enough to say “oh well, the other side won so we’ll honor that.” That wasn’t enough then, and it’s not enough for Obamistas now. They want self-criticism in the fashion of the Cultural Tradition, and if they can’t get it, they want a Great Purge.

  25. Cultural Revolution, I mean! Oops…we need a Preview page 🙂

  26. Personaly I think the scratch thing is kinda silly. But there are lots of more important things about Obama that go completely unnoticed.
    If a finger scratch vid is what it takes to get some peoples attention, then frankly I’m all for it.
    Its simple, and people seem to have an immediate reaction…cool.
    Do I think Obamas ties to Hamas, Ayers, Auchi and Rezko are more important? hell yeah, but look what happens when you bring that stuff up! Markos stops taking his kids to Disneyland…other than that, crickets.

  27. Well said and bravo River Daughter!

    These Obamorons are so presumptuous that they think they can come in here and set us straight.

    Go back to Obama Talking Points Memo, DailyKooks, and Dumbington Post!

  28. Welcome to The Confluence! We are glad you stopped by. You have probably dropped in before but for some reason, today was the day you chose to comment.

    Some reason? Could it be because you went over to Yglesias to stoke this issue in his comments section? Maybe you did it elsewhere too. Could that explain your new visitors? That’s how I found you. It’s kind of funny that you’re pretending you don’t know where the visitors are coming from. And why in that Yglesias comment thread do you twice make references to Obama’s pants coming off? That’s weird.

  29. cdo: If you think this is just a finger scratch, you haven’t watched the longer video at The Swamp. There is a lot more to this inside joke between Obama and his supporters than a finger scratch.
    See our front page post “Obama just can’t help himself” for the link to the longer video.
    Yeah, the Hamas, Ayers stuff is troubling. But even *that’s* not the point. The point is he can talk his way out of a paper bag on policy.

  30. Flop sweat? Ha. More like poop their pants terror. I wonder how many will have anxiety attacks this weekend? Break out the Xanax stat.

  31. One thing that the Obots have in common with the authoritarians is insular thinking.

    They are absolutely sure they are right. They only hang out with people that already agree with them.

    Because “everybody they know” thinks the same way, they start to think they are an overwhelming majority.

    Alcoholics will tell you “all my friends drink.” That is often true, because they only hang out with other drunks. But not everyone drinks.

    Catch my drift?

  32. Escoffier: The worse Obama does, the more intense the haka.

  33. Lawnguylander: A.) I followed a link to Yglesias. Presumably, that’s what links are for. B.) I didn’t call anyone an idiot or behave disrespectfully. Yeah, I merely pointing out that mature, civilized people who are competent and well rehearsed for debates have no need to diss a well-regarded *colleague* behind her back as if he was the BMOC of the popular clique.
    Look, this isn’t a high school social scene. This is real life. Now, if he got caught behaving badly and he looks considerably less presidential by doing it, I suggest you stop shooting the messenger and go talk to HIM about it, not me.
    To Conflucians who missed it, here is my first comment on Matt Yglesias’ site:

    Man goes to debate.
    Woman bests man at debate (actually, the first 45 minutes were his strongest. He doesn’t really want a substantive debate because he’d look like a school kid next to her, but I digress)
    Ok, woman beats the pants off of him. It’s not the first time but, holy hemiola! he had 6 weeks to prepare. Inexcusable.
    Man goes in front of friendly audience and disses her royally. Man acts like BMOC and he and his friends have a good laugh at her expense. BMOC makes insulting gestures indicating woman is like bird turds to him. He and his friends laugh it up more while he decries how the level of discourse has sunk to a new low.
    I’d like to see him do that to her face. I mean, assuming he isn’t a coward or anything. He should just do that to her in person, wouldn’t you agree? That’s what a decent respectable person would do.
    OK, let’s see him do it. His supporters have an obligation to urge him to remove the label of coward from him. You’d be doing him a favor if you urged him to stand up to his tormentor instead of dissing her behind her back.
    Right, Matt? By the way, how do you land a gig like this?

    and here is my second:

    What Powerade fails to realize is that the voters of PA are perfectly aware of Whitewater, Travelgate, Vince Foster, etc and like all of the other big and swing states that voted for her *decisively*, they finally understand that those stories were a whole lot of sound and fury signifying nothing. She goes into a debate and opens her mouth and the sound of competence, preparation and intelligence comes out of it without the excessive use of ‘ah’ or ‘um’, which convey a sense of hesitation to the listener. Pick any subject where they discussed policy. She beat him- soundly.
    Is that what this is all about? Are you still living in the 90s while the rest of the country has moved on? Well, don’t be too shocked if he loses his pants next Tuesday. Those small town hicks in PA, my family included, know what they’re doing and this little inside joke he’s sharing with his friends is going to go over like a lead balloon with them.
    The joke is over.

    As for losing your pants, you might want to check out Swing Time with Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers where this idiom either came from or shows to comic effect.
    Yes, she beat the pants off Obama on Wednesday and she’s going to clean his clock next Tuesday. Help me out Conflucians! How else will the competent, intelligent, well-mannered but steely Hillary defeat him next Tuesday? (Keep it clean for our friend Lawnguylander. He was nice enough to not be abusive.)

  34. RD: looks like you hurt some feelings over at Matt’s place.

    Should we do a group pity party for them?

    1-2-3: Awwwwwwwwwwwww!

  35. Does anyone pass out at a haka? Do they become hysterical? I find this fascinating. And I thought Texas football was nuts.

  36. Escoffier: Or as Eric Idle said in the vorpal bunny scene, “I soiled my armor, I was so scared”

  37. RD: She got his shirt and ate his lunch too.

  38. myiq2xu: No, I think we need to give them a little tough love. Not too much pity. They have to stop blaming us for their candidate’s mistakes. It’s called “projection” and it is characteristic of the emotionally immature.

  39. Dudes, I can’t get on the video blog—keeps crashing my browser.

    But there are two videos of Sen. Obama scratching his right cheek with his right hand using his middle finger in the middle of the same line. Not just two camera angled, two separate events.

    Looks like prepared comments. With gestures included.

    Intentional. Childish.

    Unfortunate.

    Poor Birdman.

  40. For progressive perspective on the evolving Obamacaca Occasion, here’s a Media Matters retrospective recap of George Allen & Company’s demurrals, denials and deflections following his August 11, 2006 Macaca Moment.

  41. RD: This situation may have surpassed Monty Python farce. I always imagined John Kerry and Teresa at the twit contest.

  42. This is a comment on hotair.com about the finger :

    http://hotair.com/archives/2008/04/18/did-obama-give-hillary-the-finger/comment-page-1/#comment-1077486

    He definitely did, check the crowd hooting and hollering immediately after it happened. Do we all want to tell the Clintons that they’re number 1? Of course. But then, we’re not all trying to be President. When you’re trying to be leader of the free world, it’s just childish. Also, put in the context of his passive aggressive whining about Hillary and Steffy, if completely fits. Going to get outraged? Nah, just file it away for the big picture.

    bikermailman on April 18, 2008 at 10:23 AM

    emphasis mine.

  43. RD: I hadn’t read you last post before my “pity party” comment. If fit just right though.

    That thread at MY’s was disgusting. I keep telling myself that the worst ones aren’t really Democrats but damn!

    My prediction for Tuesday: Hillary is gonna kick Obama to the curb, drink his milkshake, beat him like he stole something and open a big can O’ whoop-ass on him.

    That’s a conservative estimate.

  44. Ohio: Oh, so you missed the Dirt Off My Shoulder gesture and the poop on my shoe gesture? That’s a pity, They really are amazing. But you can get the idea of what they were all about from the Jay-Z video in the thread below this one. Highly recommended if you can get past the hip-hop.

  45. This morning’s dawn patrol attack by the Flying Monkeys of the Wizard of Kos seemed unusually “bitter”, but somehow familiar.

    It all came back to me after watching THIS video at No Quarter
    about the SDS in the late ’60s/early ’70s.

    http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/04/18/bring-the-war-home-the-ayers-tapes/

  46. In other words (since you Obamadroids are the *elite*) here it is in plain language:

    DON’T LET THE DOOR HIT YOU IN THE ASS ON YOUR WAY OUT

    buh-bye

  47. That’s a conservative estimate.

    I’m laughing my pants off.

    And riverdaughter, thanks for encouraging your readers not to abuse me. I’m not criticizing you for the repeated references to the de-pantsing of Obama. I think it’s funny.

  48. I called my local news channel after I go nowhere at all with the DNC or local party people.

  49. Son of: Yes, I think Fox is not only laughing at it, I think they are instigating it.
    Look, the country’s going to be in a mess when Bush leads it. The ONLY criteria for choosing a president is who is more ready to step in and keep the place running until it’s stable again.
    It’s like having a server that some incompetant administrator has been screwing around with for 8 years and now it’s on the verge of failure but the whole company depends on it. Do you hire a crack technician with a great resume )and instant access to a guru) or do you hire the hotshot who had a fantastic interview but has only one 3 day course in RedHat and a copy of Linux for Dummies? (Not that he’s a dummy, of course)
    T o me, the choice is clear. If the company can’t survive without a working server, it is not the time for on the job training or a guy who wants to implement the latest thing from Wired Magazine.
    I guarantee that if you hire the newby, you are going to regret it when the system shuts down and he can’t get it started.

  50. “I guarantee that if you hire the newby, you are going to regret it when the system shuts down and he can’t get it started.”

    But we’ll have “hope” and “change”!

    At least, I hope I’ll still have some spare change.

  51. This blog is unashamedly pro-Hillary. That’s why I’m here.

    And while I may make comments about Obama supporters, I consider myself to be among friends.

    There are blogs where people can melee if they want to, this isn’t one of them. But when I go to pro-Obama blogs, i don’t get upset at their comments and don’t comment myself. That’s trolling.

    There is one exception, which is a blog where I was a regular way before the Unity Pony divided our party. I wasn’t accused of being a troll there until Obama came along and the blogosphere turned uncivil, and I’ll be damned if I’ll be run off.

  52. Here’s what many Obama supporters don’t seem to understand:

    The GOP is not dead.

    The GOP wants to face Obama in November. Make no mistake about it.

    If they can beat him outright, that’s their preference. McCain in the White House means four more years of lawlessness.

    But if they can’t win, they want the weakest Democrat they can get as President. That’s Obama. They will spend four years trying to make his administration a failure, gaining seats in two years (maybe regaining the Senate) and win the White House back in 2012.

    They are not afraid of Obama. They are terrified of Hillary.

  53. Pennsylvania can’t come soon enough. I hope she does well there. Also, Howard Dean, I think, is wanting to shut the contest down (in other words, stop the vote counting).

  54. myiq2xu: I think you should be able to post anywhere as long as you’re not being deliberately inflammatory or publishing right wing talking points. What prompted me to post at Yglesias wasn’t the initial post. It was the misperception among the commenters that Obama’s behavior was appropriate, funny and cool and that we Hillary people wouldn’t understand. Butcha know, it’s *not* any of those things. More than anything, it’s cowardly. He can’t win in debate or with PA voters but he can make fun of her and treat her like $@#$ behind her back with his friends. I don’t think they actually saw it from that angle until it was pointed out to them. Well, now they know. So, I wasn’t trying to troll. I was trying to give them a different perspective, one their candidate might do well to consider.

  55. How much longer before we can get rid of Howard Dean? What a sorry excuse for chairman of the DNC.

  56. RD—I did see the several videos on a machine with faster access. Not pretty from the senator from Illinois.

    Is this the hope and change and unity and New Politics I’ve been hearing so much? Because it looks an awful lot like junior high.

  57. RD: Matt’s blog isn’t supposed to be Obot territory. Not like you-know-where. That’s a place to melee, if you choose. But what you said was perfectly reasonable.

    At *some* places, failure to praise Him highly enough is considered trolling.

  58. The argurment I continue to make to any Obama supporter who will listen(and that is not very many, IME), is that before we can get people to believe in Hope and Change, they have to believe in government again.

    Clinton understands government and how to make it work. While I think Obama may have some good policy plans, his entire approach is about politics over policy. Politics will not fix this mess, policy will. Obama doesn’t have enough experience to get the trains running on time, and to fight back against the wrenches the Republicans will eventually throw in the works(which is what they always do, they don’t get re-elected by going along with Dems).

    That is why we need Clinton, now. I don’t think Obama should be her VP pick(I think Wes Clark), but it would be a perfect opportunity for him to get some hands on executive experience. Then, in 2016, we can get a majority of the country to climb on board with his message.

  59. I cannot believe Obama and his bedwetting supporters are still whining about the debate.

    These are the people who slammed Hillary Clinton after the Philly debate from 10/30/07, although she herself never complained about what went on. We did and rightfully so.

    Check out Bob Somerby’s post the day after:

    If you watched the debate, you saw what occurred: In fact, Russert and Williams “teed it up” for Obama and Edwards all night long. (…) We thought their performance was simply stunning; there has never been a debate like it. That said, we thought Garance Franke-Ruta, live-blogging the session, had the eyes and the guts to see and say what was happening half-way through. She posted this at 9:57 Eastern, when the gang-bang staged by these weak-minded boys had reached a remarkable level:

    FRANKE-RUTA: OK, this is now everybody—and I do mean everybody—against Clinton. It makes her look brave for just standing there, this small determined woman being attacked by three men on either side of her, two male moderators, and the entire male Republican field. Each of the critics on his own would be more effective, but taken as whole, the optics of this are uncomfortable.

    In retrospect, we’ll go beyond that; in fact, the optics were pitiful. It was sad to see that Obama and Edwards would take part in such a Salem witch-dunk; of all the boys who stood on the stage, only Richardson had the decency to announce that he wouldn’t be part of it. (God bless the occasional man who stands up and says he won’t do this.) Of course, our nominee doesn’t have to be a woman to provoke this kind of ugly reaction; in Campaign 2000, the Dem nominee was a man, so Dowd just imagined that he was a woman, announcing that Gore was “so feminized [that] he’s practically lactating.” (As has been quite plain for years, this person is deeply unwell.) But when the Democratic front-runner is a real woman, the press corps’ multimillionaire culture warriors don’t have to imagine they’re slaying a lady. They can savage her right in the flesh! What a shame that Big Dems played along.

    In the next few days, with transcripts (presumably) available, we’ll take a look at the remarkable questions posed last night by Welch’s Lost Boys. (We’ll compare them to the lazy softballs their island-mate served at the last GOP debate.) They were hired to serve this purpose, and they’ve served this purpose quite well; they trashed your nominee during Campaign 2000, and sent the world’s dumbest man to the White House. But if you tend to doubt the fact that their souls are driven by a gender madness, we’ll close today with a report from last night’s NBC Nightly News. The headline comes to us straight from Nexis. This really is the way someone at NBC News viewed last evening’s event. Look for men to go after Clinton, some poor broken loser cried out:

    NBC NIGHTLY NEWS (10/30/07):

    Look for men to go after Senator Hillary Clinton in tonight’s Democratic debate

    BRIAN WILLIAMS: And on that very stage, my partner in the questioning for tonight’s debate will be our Washington bureau chief, the moderator of Meet the Press, Tim Russert. And, Tim, as rare as it is to telegraph your strategy, here’s Barack Obama, this weekend, New York Times, saying, “Yes, I’m going to be tougher against Senator Clinton.” What can he do now? That raises the stakes.

    TIM RUSSERT: He has to fulfill his promise, his pledge. Now, I think it will not be like two caged animals. But, Brian, he has to be very pointed in separating himself from Hillary Clinton on specific issues. He also has to provide a rationale for his candidacy. More than politics of hope, more than turn the page, he has to say, “On Iraq, Iran, Social Security, no matter what the issue is, we differ. You’re a wonderful woman, you have a great husband, but we differ on these issues, and I can win a general election.” It’s a very high hurdle for Obama to succeed.

    WILLIAMS: And we’re talking about two of the people on stage tonight. There are a lot of others that like very much to get their message heard above the din.

    RUSSERT: They’re going to say to you, “Let me in, coach.” John Edwards, watch him closely, Brian. He is absolutely going on a no-holds-barred, take no prisoners. I believe he will be more candid, more blunt, more acerbic in his language than Barack Obama. Chris Dodd, Joe Biden, Rill Richardson, Dennis Kucinich, this is it for them. They know they have to make a mark in tonight’s debate, two months to go.

    WILLIAMS: All right, partner, I’ll see you on stage. Tim Russert, thanks!

    (…)

    At any rate, the “men” did go after Clinton last night—holding hands like blubbering babies, looking like frightened, wet-legged boys. Brian and Tim and Barack and John learned an inspiring lesson last night—if the four hold hands and help each other, they can work up their courage to dunk the vile witch. Yes, they did the same thing to Candidate Gore, simply pretending that he was a woman. But this will be done to Democratic front-runners as long as we Dems and libs permit it. And uh-oh! If the work of our brilliant web leaders provides clues, this will go on for a very long time. So will Republican control of the White House.

    The next day Clinton was roundly mocked for whining and accusing people for attacking her because she’s a woman, something she never did.
    Obama was on NBC with Matt Lauer, saying Hillary is trying to hide behind her gender, and he could also hide behind his race.
    Samantha “Monster” Power was on with Tucker, saying Hillary is insulting women with her gender card.
    Hillary was bashed all day long on that louse infestation MessNBC, for going to her alma mater, Wellesley College. Never mind that it was planned months in advance.

    You want to know what we heard from Josh?

    I’ll yield my time to Bob Somerby:

    “Of course, Josh will always cut and run.”

  60. http://www.ronpaulforums.com

    Echo chambers, they worked out well for these guys too.

    While I agree that there have been plenty of foul-mouthed partisans that have pushed this debate to its current level of acrimony, what you are doing here is not the answer. Segregating the online Democratic community into separate enclaves will not help beat John McCain in November.

    We don’t need havens from each other. We need havens from vituperative pronouncements on either side, a place where supporters of either candidate can discuss the relative merits of the two senators in a civil manner.

  61. no riverdaughter…

    you buy yourself some Xserves, migrate everyone over OSX and tell them to deal with it..

    trust me the migration will be less painful than you think.. they’ll thank you later.. and wonder “how did we ever do it that old way?”

  62. Son of: Hey, I LOVE my macs. You know they are built on Linux right?
    Anyway, that’s a great idea. But having lived through a couple of nasty server migrations, I have to tell you that a good sys admin who knows her $#%^ is worth her weight in gold.

  63. uri: Thanks for keeping it civil. I invite you to stay and converse.

  64. I got news for Barack Obama and Howard Dean: I’m still sticking with Hill all the way to Denver if I have to and I’m ready to go!

  65. Thank you for delete them. I do not like reading thier comment. Let us all stand up and speak out for Hillary! Help Hillary all the way to White House.

  66. For the love of God, is it Tuesday yet?

  67. uri: I am afraid the damage is already done.

  68. You can always pitch in a few bucks to Hillary! Through the main site or here. I just did and you know what? It felt freakin’ great!

  69. uri–

    A lot of us tried sticking it out in the Obamablogs. We are not the ones who pushed for segregation. But now that riverdaughter and others have started blogosphere 2.0, we are fine with it. I know I will not be going back to the abusive, woman-hating blogs. They made their bed and they can lie in it. We took a lot of the intelligence and snarkiness with us when we left too.

  70. http://www.beyondchron.org/articles/The_Obama_Craze_Count_Me_Out_5413.html

    Matt Gonzalez writes about how he came to his decision on whom to back in the Dem primary.

    Not too much new, but nice summary.

    Via link from MBolink at NoQuarter.

  71. I have to tell you that a good sys admin who knows her $#%^ is worth her weight in gold.

    That would be about 1,150,000 Euros. Can deposit it to my swiss bank account. Thank you.

    /snark

  72. First off, thank you to riverdaughter for the invitation.

    To DCDemocrat and bostonboomer-

    I don’t understand this. If it is a bad thing for blogs and their attendant communities to push out segments of their population for supporting a candidate, is it really an improvement to start a site with the intention of excluding people for the same reason?

  73. Hear, Hear, throw the bums out, they run from place to place like flies to a piece of rotten meat, sharing their kool-aid with large slices of ignorance. A word of warning to the Obamazombies, when you line up for your ration of kool-aid go to the back of the line, if you see folks dropping and squirming on the ground, it’s not a new dance created by Michelle, it’s “THE END” of the road. ………………Have fun wit yoselfs……now run-a-long like good little zombies

  74. uri, those sites were abusive to anyone who dared support Hillary. These sites give us solace, thank G*d. I have no interest in Obama.

  75. Riverdaughter it frightens me when I see what Obama does to blogs that support Hillary. What will he do if he is elected and has the Patriot Act behind him. Is this just a for shadowing of things to come.

  76. Nobody’s excluding anyone. We’re just tired of being called racists, corporatists, and Republicans for supporting Hillary.

    Obama folks are welcome here if they mind their manners, but I think I speak for more than a few people when I say they don’t seem to be very good at that. Say one negative thing about their guy and they start going bananas with the personal attacks.

    There wouldn’t be a *need* for sites like this one if they had kept themselves composed to begin with. Yeah, I know they think it’s all our fault for various reasons, but honestly? I don’t really much care what they think any more, since they’ve made it abundantly clear their criteria for what constitutes a Democrat is support for their guy.

    They don’t have the right to run me or any other Hillary supporter out of this Party. That goes for Dean, too – there was a Party (for a long long time) before he came along, and it’ll be there (for a long long time) after he’s gone.

    (I personally am a 7th generation Democrat. My great-great or so grandfather was one of the first elected Democrats in the country. For Obama supporters to be calling me a Republican is simply ludicrous.)

    But yes, it is heartbreaking to see the Republicans use these divide-and-conquer tactics again. Too bad the Obamites didn’t see them for what they were when they decided to go hell bent for leather in favor of disenfranchising Michigan and Florida voters.

    Some of the bee up my bonnet on MI/FL is this: What happens when one or both parties starts telling people they can’t vote in the general because of some technicality? The RIGHT to vote is guaranteed in the Constitution – not the privilege to vote.

  77. I am grateful for a place to go where I feel safe. Thank goodness for this blog.

    This is reiverdaughter’s abode. She is free to remove comments if she wants. Riverdaughtet has been even-headed in handling disrupters.

    At least riverdaughter has manners. She will help an unwanted visitor put on his coat and escort him to the door. There are other bloggers who chop a non-conforming visitor into pieces with a machete and hurl the body parts into a firey pit as the commenters hurl abuse.

  78. uri: on the contrary. We dont want to exclude anyone. But one of the reasons the Confluence exists is because I was trollstormed off DailyKos and lost my priveleges. This was done by Obama supporters who called me a racist because I wasn’t one of them. I will not put up with that on this blog. So far today, I’ve been called an idiot, stupid, delusional and a racist. Hillary us described by much more colorful terms.
    Most of us did not start out hating Obama. We just didnt think he was ready to be president. Even as recently as super Tuesday, we would have gladly supported him even if he’s got fewer qualifications than she has in her little pinky. But the Haka that the pro-Obama websites have stirred up has been nothing short of nauseating. We can’t believe fellow progressives would act this way. And Obama has done nothing to stop it nor has he taken any steps to resolve MI and FL.
    we can’t support him on the fall. I have been discouraging people from voting for McCain but as Obama does more of this julenile and offensive behavior, our visceral dislike of him increases. It has nothing to do with sexism. It’s more of the sense that he has nothing but contempt for half of his own party. You’d never find Hillary writing off whole demographic blocks of voters.
    So, like her, we are trying to be inclusive but *unlike* her, we dont have to pit up with verbal abuse. So, that’s why you are welcome here while some of your friends are not.

  79. RD:

    IOW – Visitors are welcome but are expected to be polite, and the bouncer don’t put up with any lip.

  80. Amen Rd ! I think they came here cause after awhile selfishness motivated by intimidation & hatred makes for some shattering echos …

    I remember the days not so long ago when ‘most’ were willing to vote for either candidate ..unfortunately that is no longer the case at least for me . There is no leadership qualities shown by BOs side – how could I possibly vote for a bunch of self centered people like the ones we have suffered under for the last 7 years .. no way . Not voting will be fine . It will be different , but in my life I learned to do things different .

    too bad . ah well, I will just comfort myself with the thought of all the money I will be saving if ‘he’ is the candidate .

  81. RD, you make me smile. So many miles away and yet, I feel I must have known you in High School! I swear. Yours in solidarity, friendship, sisterhood of the traveling Levi’s 501’s, and all that!

    Why do I feel like this is going to get even gnarlier…

    Big virtual bouqet tossed your way! And I love the Confluence. I’m so glad that I found you, and Taylor and No Quarter, and the rest of you too. I didn’t comment on Sugar’s incident, but that was pretty horrifying. I guess that was one of those trolls you taught me about that you are referring to in this piece—-
    Thank you! for being all you are here and to the blogosphere.

  82. riverdaughter-
    This is why I clicked the link and left a comment, because I find it incredibly troubling that this drawn out primary has caused people to lose sight of what is by far the most important consideration: keeping John McCain out of the White House.

    I remember very clearly when the “equally bad” meme was trotted out in 2000, it was ridiculous then and it is just as ridiculous now. There is far more at stake than the validation an internet troll might get by having their preferred candidate win an election. Just to start:

    Three Supreme Court Nominations

  83. How the heck do the Obama supporters expect to win the general election? Obama and his supporters have done worse than demean the Democratic base; they have exiled us from the process.

    I’m a 56 year old white woman who supports Hillary, but wanted to learn more about Obama. I wanted to learn more about Obama so I asked questions on the blogs. The Obamasphere refuses to engage any meaningful discussion what so ever about Obama. A criticism of Obama no matter how politely phrased, no matter how politely tendered, no matter how judiciously argued is forbidden. I was subjected to smackdowns, flames and abuse from people, some of whom I have known on the blogs for years.

    It’s been an eye-openig experience. Hillary is all the more my hero for daring to be a leader and refusing to back down to Obama and his minions.

  84. BTD has finally stated the obvious at TalkLeft http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/4/18/185943/977:

    “If refraining from saying Hillary Clinton is not a Democrat constitutes Hillary worship for Daily Kos, I think he confirms my point – the destruction of the Clinton Wing of the Party, Hillary Clinton and the Clinton Legacy is what his web site is about now. Drumming Clinton supporters out of the Democratic Party is what his web site is about. If that is what Barack Obama’s campaign will be about in November, he will lose. The Creative Class Wing of the Democratic Party is not enough.”

    BTD is an honorable and intelligent man.

  85. uri – I don’t trust Obama on national defense/security, the economy, health care or social security. He is not ready to be commander in chief. He would be dangerous for our country.

    As for Supreme Court nominees, I have no confidence that he will pick qualified people. Obama supporters have used the “Roe v. Wade” card on women voters. Personally, I will not be intimidated by that.

    I have reached the point where there is no way – none – that I will vote for Obama. He is a loose cannon.

    I’m working to get Hillary elected and to shake up the Democratic Party. I want to take it back from cowards like Pelosi and Dean. And from bullies like Brazile.

    Americans deserve better.

  86. I don’t know if anyone is catching Hillary and Maya Angelou on CNN.com right now.
    There is no black and there is no white.
    Simply two amazing women. How can people NOT get Hillary ?….I just don’t get it.

  87. uri: Three Supreme Court Nominations

    So? Obama wanted to vote ‘yes’ on Roberts until a consultant advised him that this wouldn’t play in a Dem primary. I’ll let the ‘Change’ generation worry about the SC. Enough with the fear cards.

  88. hir – You said it.

  89. Obamabots always flood our blogs and websites whenever they are scared or nervous after a major screwup. This happened after TX and OH too.
    So welcome!

  90. I can’t believe that the Obama Fanbase can’t stop whining about the debate. Oh dear, how precious and fragile they are. I honestly don’t think they have an ounce of fight in ’em.

    As for the scratch… huh. To me, it’s just one of a hundred details that create a context. Obama is a petty, smug, phony jerk. I hear his voice and I cringe. The more the corporate media (and the blog boyz) try to sell him to me, the more I’m turned off.

  91. If it is a bad thing for blogs and their attendant communities to push out segments of their population for supporting a candidate, is it really an improvement to start a site with the intention of excluding people for the same reason?

    uri, the Hillary supporters on the Obama blogs had three choices – (1) stay and tolerate the endless stream of filth poured on Hillary and on us, (2) leave and say nothing, or (3) leave and speak to each other (and maybe the handful of decent Obama supporters). That’s it. So, yes, compared to options (1) and (2), (3) is a vast improvement.

  92. I’m surprised that mentioning that the next president will very likely be making multiple nominations to the Supreme Court qualifies as a fear card. This is not a question of Obama vis a vis Hillary, it’s comparing him to McCain. Do you honestly believe that they will nominate even remotely similar candidates?

    Are your interests on national security served by a man who has difficulty keeping track of the different sects of Islam? Are your interests on the economy served by a man who believes that the sub-prime mortgage debacle is due to too much regulation? Are your interests on health care served by a man who proposes health care reform that would lead to he himself being excluded for having a preexisting condition? Are your interests on social security served by a man intent on privatizing it?

    To me, these are the questions that supporters of either candidate must ask themselves before they declare that they won’t vote for the opposing Democrat come November.

  93. have they ever come to say , gee – I feel so bad the way the press has treated Hillary , I signed the petition and called plus emailed mnsbc . or gee … rroads went way too far in calling Hillary those names .. I’ve written AA & told them so ?? The answer is NO the new dem party has never come here and said ” we have to stand for women ” , we have Moms & Wives & Daughters AND we are progressives – WE must make a stand against this filth and stand together .

    I’m still waiting , If I missed it enlighten me . .;)

  94. I apologize to the nation!

    You read that right. MABlue apologizes to the nation.

    I live in MA and I should have warned the nation about what a candidate package by Marketing bamboozler David Axelrod looks like. It’s just 2 words:

    Deval Patrick.

    I actually worked on his campaign because he had a simple message: Hope and Change. The field of Dems we had in the primary here was great, and the early favorite was former AG Tom Reilly, a non-sexy, blue collar, accomplished Democrat.

    We kicked everybody’s ass and we gave our guy Deval a pass on everything because he was so awesome, and we knew everything will become great once he’s the Governor. Bill Clinton came here to campaign for the guy, his former DOJ official.

    Long story short, Deval Patrick is the most ineffective Governor we’ve had since I can remember. His 3 predecessors were Republican and they achieved far more than Deval, a Democratic Governor in the bluest of blue states.

    I should have gone on tour to warn Dems against someone who is well package and doesn’t understand how important it is to know the in and out of government.

  95. Hillary is just a politician like Obama but has vast more experience than Obama, a life of working for progressive issues, and a vetted track record. We know what to expected from Hillary and she has never disappointed us. Having met her she is not a larger than life figure but just a typical neighbor. From the way Obama appears in public make me feel he doesn’t know or understand what a typical American is. Hillary is a product of a suburban middle class public school upbrining like most of us. Obama on the other hand grew in a wealthy family lived in paradise attending one of the finest prep schools in the country. If their is a disconnect is because very few of us have had those kinds of opportunities.
    As a child of the 50s and 60s Hillary’s experiences are more like mine and Obama appeals to the privaleged segments of society. Until these disconnects are addressed the Democratic Party is doomed. We are no longer at the point where the party can dictate who the nominee is we are arriving at a time where a compromise candidate has to start being talk about.
    I am a strong support of Hillary and I understand (but not completely) the way people support Obama just as strong. But for the good of the party I think both candidates must step aside and make way for compromise.

  96. Hey everybody– The DNC has real people answering the phones and taking messages for Howard Dean. Pls. call, they are very nice and they take your name and address ( so Obama people can not call a million times). It takes a minute and it makes you a player in national politics!!!! (Trust me on that, have I ever lied to you??)

  97. writing it down

    “the … questions … I must ask …myse-e-lf….”

  98. riverdaughter-
    I understand that many blogs have becoming increasingly vitriolic as this primary has gone on. I sympathize with anyone who feels that they are no longer welcome in their online community of choice. All I’m trying to say is that there are better options than setting an unwelcome tone for people you could possibly persuade.

    In this post I was informed that simply based upon my candidate preference that::

    1. I should go somewhere else
    2. You already know all my other views
    3. You already know anything I might have to say
    4. You find what I have to say ridiculous
    5. I reek of flop sweat

    Is that going to change anyone’s mind? Wouldn’t your community and candidate be better served by saying “Welcome, Obama Supporters. Please have a look around and see the information that leads us to support Hillary. If you have questions, please ask. However, all participants here are expected to be civil. Harsh language, trolling, ad hominem attacks and the like will be deleted under a zero tolerance policy. If you have nothing constructive to add, you are not welcome.”

  99. Uri: The extended primary season is not a bad thing. The longer the candidates can present their ideas to the public, the better. There’s no crisis and the world isn’t going to collapse. However, Hillary is a seasoned politician and she knows not to say things that will alienate voters. Barack has not learned this yet, so there is a risk for his supporters: the longer he’s out there without having secured the nomination, the greater the chances that he will have multiple macaca moments and lose it all. Right?
    As long as the nominee wins legitmately, that means all voters from all 50 states are counted and all delegates have an opportunity to affect the outcome, then we have no reason to complain. But if it turns out that there is no resolution to the MI and FL situation and that as a result the other Clinton states lack the critical mass to put her in front, then all bets are off Uri. Messing with the delegate count and disenfranchising a lot of BIG blue states and swing states is going to hurt Obama badly in the fall. You are even in danger of losing NJ. I’m not kidding. I live here and know a lot of people who will vote for McCain. I’m just not one of them.
    As for the supreme court justices, your best bet is with Hillary. Her husband appointed 2 very good, moderate ones and I have every expectation that she will best him in that department.
    So, you are really arguing for her to be president. You just have to be open to the concept.

  100. Is this blog being videotaped by A&E? riverdaughter, if you don’t accept this gift of love and get on the jet to the rehab center right now (sniff sniff) …

  101. riverdaughter-
    I am not arguing for her to be president. I am arguing against John McCain being president.

    I am very cynical about what either Democratic candidate can accomplish if elected, simply due to the state of the nation and events that are outside of their control. On the other hand, I have eight years of experience to draw from when guessing what the United States will be like under McCain.

  102. uri:

    fear tactics regarding the Supreme Court won’t work.

    There are ways to neutralize a McCain administration—voting for downticket Dems. Add to the Senate and House majorities, and those new members can stop the confirmation of any number of McCain nominees.

    Besides, I don’t think I’m going to have to depend on the majorities to do what a self-respecting Dem would do and Pelosi/Reid have failed to accomplish.

    Sen. Clinton is far from out of this race.

    I look forward to her inauguration.

  103. Uri: Our door is open to anyone who wants to have a discussion. YOU were not rude or obnoxious and that message was not meant for you. But if you think we are kindly, gentle old ladies who are too polite to fight, you are just dead wrong. I don’t appreciate Obama people coming on my site and calling me an idiot or a racist. And I have no intention of letting any Obama person use my site to spread oppostion research or negative advertising. There isn’t anything that an Obama person can throw at us that we haven’t seen a couple thousand times and we know a poison meme when we see it. We refuse to carry that message here.
    So, yes, we like visitors but we are tough. None of you should have any illusions about coming here and baiting us. Nahgahappen. The self-titled “creative class” would be well advised that there are some scary smart people on this site and our friends’ sites and mischief makers won’t stand a chance here. Trust me, deletion would be preferable to the blow to the self-esteem.
    I hope I make myself clear. Like I said before, you seem reasonable so I have no objections.

  104. uri:

    Are you here as a missionary? Because we know who we support, and why. But feel free to (politely) try to change minds.

    Don’t assume we find your views ridiculous, but don’t assume we hold ridiculous views.

    I am not the proprietor, so I cannot speak towards your welcome, but RD has already done so quite eloquently.

    Only trolls reek of flop sweat. You know who you are, so if you are not a troll, don’t feel self-concious.

  105. Uri: If you really feel that McCain would be so awful, I’m surprised that you aren’t getting behind the candidate with the greatest potential of beating him. That would be Hillary.

  106. Where’s my damn cocktail party, RD?

  107. Sorry about my earlier post, I was supposed to give you the DNC number to call 877-336-7200.

  108. Uri,

    I really don’t know why you would like to hang out with us, after reading your comments. You enter politely, but each comment gets more argumentative when we express our views.

    What is it you want to find here other than converting us to your candidate? Your tone of voice is already changing after a few comments.

    Please explain why you choose this blog as one you absolutely need to be part of.

  109. I don’t know what I have written that would suggest that I hold any assumptions that the commenters here are “kindly, gentle old ladies who are too polite to fight.”

    While you are clearly willing to allow me to comment, and I appreciate that, I get the distinct impression that you would prefer it if I did so elsewhere. I apologize if I have offended anyone and wish you the best of luck.

  110. uri: Are your interests

    Since you asked, “my interests” have fared well during the past seven years. I would caution against personalizing these kinds of arguments.

    uri: I’m surprised that mentioning that the next president will very likely be making multiple nominations to the Supreme Court qualifies as a fear card.

    Sure. Keeping me safe from terrorists or malevolent judges — what’s the difference?

    As to some of your specific questions:

    Are your interests on health care served by a man who proposes health care reform that would lead to he himself being excluded for having a preexisting condition?

    Tell me more. I find that McCain/Obama’s approaches are quite similar, focusing on reform, prevention and competition. You are correct that McCain has no specific statement on coverage for the pre-existing illness while BO claims:

    Guaranteed eligibility. No American will be turned away from any insurance plan because of illness or pre-existing conditions.

    But listen … I get junk faxes on almost a daily basis telling me the same — Health insurance for me without medical underwriting! I even get a little chart w/ premium costs …

    What makes the BO plan different from the junk fax?

  111. The Obamaphiles really don’t get it. See, I dont think Obama has done anything in his nearly 50 years of life to merit the Presidency. Call me old school, but I firmly believe one must build the resume to run for President. His attitude toward Hillary(and Bill Clinton), and that of his supporters, has completely alienated me towards him, as have his tactics, including not acknowledging Florida and Michigan.

  112. One last thing, to answer Gabriele Droz’ question and ward off any concerns that this was an aborted troll attempt.

    I expect that Barack Obama will win the nomination and was hoping to engage with some Clinton supporters who plan on sitting out in November if she is not the nominee. I have no intention to try “converting” people from supporting Clinton, but I was hoping that I could at least find some agreement with regards to opposing McCain. While I will not deny that I can sound argumentative in my opposition to John McCain, I do not believe that I have written anything that could be construed as disparaging to either Clinton or her supporters.

    Again, best of luck

  113. Uri: We have every expectation that Hillary will win the nomination. Howard Dean is playing a game of chicken but after next week, he’s going to be forced to blink.
    You’ll see. If I were you, I’d start getting used to the concept.

  114. uri, on April 18th, 2008 at 8:14 pm Said:

    riverdaughter-
    I understand that many blogs have becoming increasingly vitriolic as this primary has gone on. I sympathize with anyone who feels that they are no longer welcome in their online community of choice. All I’m trying to say is that there are better options than setting an unwelcome tone for people you could possibly persuade.

    Uri – You sound like a pretty reasonable person. But, is this the only blog that you are pushing this meme? Most people are here in REACTION to other places that they’ve been pushed out of and are venting their frustration and outrage. Perhaps if you could convince the big boy blogs not to belittle us everyone would be able to calm down and come together. But since I don’t see that happening any time soon your calls here will go unanswered.

  115. Something on my mind and riverdaughter’s great post has empowered me to speak out.

    Some time ago I spent quite a while commenting at OpenLeft. Having met Matt and Chris and being impressed with Paul Rosenberg I liked the place. But slowly a shadow began to fall over the place. Bowers posts about the ‘creative class’ and the Magic Man became more tortured and hard to follow. Never a good writer Bowers struggled.

    One day I made a comment to the effect that there would not be a dime’s worth of difference, or words to that effect this was months ago, between how Clinton, Obama or McCain would govern. My contention was that our government is so gridlocked that none of the three would be able to do what they wanted and middle course, a failing course, would be followed.

    Bowers was incensed. Threatened me with banning to which I replied, ‘Go ahead. I’m gonna speak my mind. It’s your blog do it.’ He blinked then but the axe fell later.

    Somewhat put out at this I wrote my post:

    The Committee of Three

    Currently I find my self ‘staying home…gonna get things done…’ ala Mr. David Bowie. But I do get out and here I am.

    I just want to say one thing here and that is riverdaughter needs to keep her strength up and this community needs to help her withstand the assault you are under. Senator ‘SnakeOil’ is the most dangerous politician since Huey Long.

    Make no mistake, I can see many already get it, that figure Sinclair Lewis spoke of?

    The one ‘wrapped in the flag….carrying the cross…’

    Lewis wisely did not specify whether is was approaching from the right…..

    Or the left.

    Be vigilant, think for yourself and above all:

    ‘Fight Back!’

  116. Nice to find this site. What a relief. I found the gestures in Obama’s stump speech to be really offensive. Conduct unbecoming of a President. He is so passive/aggressive. This dogwhistle Jay Z sign throwing is very divisive along with so many other things about the man. His “finger to the law” signal was definately the bird. How low can you go.
    I guess the shoe gesture was intended for us old fogies,a Stones reference? Now we have to decipher our President’s sign throwing? It’s beyond belief. I don’t think it is “hip” at all, I think it was classless and rude not to mention wimpy.
    Thanks for the site, finally a refuge from the meanies.

  117. uri reminds me of Reverend Hale in “Hawaii.” Gosh I loved that movie. I went to an all girl Catholic School and we thought Julie Andrews’ wild sea captain suitor was so sexy.

    Missionary Hale lands ashore and urges the tribal Matriarch to cover her breasts, to become a Christian and get the women to put some clothes on. And convert to an alien religion. Did she not know that the son of God Jesus Christ loves her?

    Ladies, you must behave. I’m bringing you the good news …

  118. Honestly, I don’t have the slightest interest in hearing anything that Obama supporters have to say. I’ve already heard more than enough. The thought of Obama as President is frightening to me. I don’t trust him at all and I won’t vote for him. He can’t possibly beat McCain anyway.

  119. Uro was was invited to come here and when s/he expressed polite and rational opinions you all jumped on him/her. amd some of you said get lost. That was really unpleasant to read.

  120. make that “uri”.

  121. Judith,

    Uri started out fine, but then began to give us the same old lines we’ve heard so many thousands of times before.

    I personally no longer have the time to listen to the repetitious points telling us that we need to look at the larger picture because of what’s at stake (McCain) etc.

    I already have heard all of this, and I’m quite aware. What I need to see from Obama supporters at this time is a willingness to reign in their own before asking us to do it first. I’m a willing partner in the idea, but it takes two to Tango.

    In the meantime, I’d much rather spend my time with fellow Hilary supporters discussing how we can get Hillary elected, rather than engaging with Obama supporters who want to suck up our time.

    Time at this point, is prescious, and I myself feel, it’s better spent on brainstorming how to get to our goal, than engaging with intruding Obama time-suckers. Sorry. I work for a living, and I have to make choices on how to use my time.

    I’ve spent countless hours in the past reasoning politely and patiently. I no longer feel I have the time to do that. I see a time-sucker when I read them by now. Uri is not trying to unite. Uri tries to take up our time, time we could be using to work for Hillary. I want a place where we are safe to do this, and a place where we are not constantly being distracted by incoming trolls that divert our attention from doing so.

  122. More on my last post,

    Look, all of us spent countless hours on Daily Kos trying to convince a terribly anti-Hillary mass, doing out best to use reason and logic – to no avail.

    The lesson I learned from that is “don’t waste your time” on trying to convert cult members. Use your time to fight for WHAT YOU ARE FOR instead. In my case, that’s getting Hillary elected. Like the Big Dog said: “Keep your eye on the prize”.

  123. Gabriele:

    Doesn’t it seem like they all have the same script?

    Axelrod is a specialist at astroturfing.

  124. St. Confused the Clueless can be melded to different positions– he has the capacity to change his mind– unlike Skippy the Shrub Chimp and Precious. Democratic majorities in the House and Senate with any kind of competent leadership (like Murtha in the House) will be able to handle the wave of crazy Justice appointments he is apt to make. After all we have been Bushed for 12 years and Ray Gunned for 8.

    What would it take for me to support Obama?

    I will vote for Obama under two conditions– 1)he is the last person on Earth 2) He has a gun to my head.

  125. well, you were VERY nice about it 😉

  126. why do you insist on doing this to me…i guess you enjoy showing my obvious ignorance…so once more…..

    ” I can almost read the flop sweat.”

    what?….

  127. Can you imagine The Precious’ supporters IF they had a little power to go with their condescension, arrogance and mob-like tactics?

    The thought of that is truly scary.

    Thankfully, Hillary will save us from that nightmare.

  128. Riverdaughter can choose whatever she writes here and whatever comments she publishes. That is her freedom of speech, on her own blog, her own personal space.

    She does not have to provide space on her own blog for anyone else. In fact it is totally reasonable not to and she shouldn’t even have to justify not publishing the abusers.

    Those who complain here about censorship are big hypocrites. It is government and mainstream media that silence people. It is those who propogate lies. Those are the ones to attack.

  129. I think John McCain is very sexy but I like melanomas.

  130. Thank you Thank you Thank you.
    When I first began researching Obama, I would get
    attacked for asking a simple question. The attackers,
    the Obama supporters, really do echo their candidate
    with their arrogant know it all attitudes.
    I was a huge skeptic of Larry Sinclair at first, but after
    looking at the data and viewing the increasing level
    of attacks against him, I am more convinced he is
    telling the truth about Obama.
    Obama is hiding something.
    We will know more about Obama soon.

  131. McCain is like my crazy old uncle. (not)

    The Republicans may be enjoying our troubles now, but McCain is not the nominee yet. A lot of things can happen in the next few months. I don’t wish harm or il health on anybody, but McCain is not the picture of health. He’s yacking it up with the press and eating donuts. He feels real comfy. He may have a macaca yet,

    Plus, Republicans have their own internal conflicts.

  132. sweetheart, don’t go negative on us!

    The critics don’t understand the origin of the brushing off gesture. It is to brush off hate and particularly our bad internal feelings when we perceive some does not like us. The brushing off gesture is not to brush off a person. There is a big difference.

    Barack Obama was showing us how to deal with setbacks. He wasn’t grinning. He was smiling. He was bringing fun and ease into the relationship.

    Lets ask the positive questions. I am not American, so can I ask, what is the one thing that must happen in the USA this year to bring smiles to the young people of America.

    One thing.

  133. Vote for Obama………Indonesianist one 🙂

  134. Well, I’m new to your site but I am NOT an Obamabot! I’m a Hillarybot! But I wont be commenting too much – a ‘lurker’ I guess you would call me? But your posts are good and they pretty much say what I feel on the ones I’ve read. Thanks for being so upfront and honest.

  135. I love this post. I am a lurker since just after “the birth” of this page.

    I love your stuff but I thought this post was perfect.

    Go somewhere else to play dirty you little kool-Aid drinkers. . .

    I can’t wait for Tuesday!!!

  136. smoothe08: Your comment is here. You didn’t violate any of my criteria. As for debating the merits of the candidate, sure. Treat it like a job interview and tell me, based on his qualifications and experience, references and interview performances (consider all of the previous debates) why you believe he should be our next candidate.
    Please try to be objective.

  137. Sorry about that smoothe08. I don’t know what happened to your comment but I managed to grab it from the back button. There wasn’t anything wrong with it that I could see. Perhaps it was a technical glitch.
    Here it is in its entirety:

    #
    smoothe08, on April 19th, 2008 at 11:18 am Said: Edit Comment

    I understand you don’t like people bashing your candidate but I have read many negative and hateful comments by supporters of Hilliary directed towards Obama. The real question is are you in favor of debates by people with good character, as I read the comments on your blog I see much of the same as I’ve seen elsewere people attacking a person they don’t even know because they don’t like that persons politics it will be nice one day when we can disagree without character assasination, you tell me why you want Hilliary I tell you why I want Obama then we discuss it and end of story no name calling or beating each other up over it neither candidate is perfect (no human is) so both of them are allowed their mistakes when we can see past that then we will be able to vote for the right reason
    I don’t expect you to post this comment I wrote it hoping you are a reasonable person who encourages reasonable debates.

  138. HOW DARE HIM SAY HILLARY MAKES MISTAKES!!…

    just kidding…

  139. I’m totally in agreeance with Smooth08. It seems like instead of a place for Hillary supporters to come together and cheer their candidate, it is more a place for Hillary fanatics to bash Obama and his supporters. Not so much Obama as his supporters. I would hate to think that the comments of a candidates supporters would fuel your dislike for a candidate even more, which is the impression that I’m getting. People find your anti-Obama comments offensive and abrasive just as much as you find some of the anti-Hillary comments. To be truthful, I haven’t heard any persuasive arguments as to why Hillary is the better candidate in any of the threads I’ve read. Maybe someone should be trying to inform the public with hard-hitting facts instead of spewing meaningless fodder for the Obama supporters to eat up.

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