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Friday: Clarification of “Dirt off your Shoulder” gesture

Yeah, apparently we just aren’t cool enough. Yep, that’s where Barry is going with the ‘flicking the bird turd off his shoulder’ gesture. See, WE thought it was a cowardly way for him to share a moment with his friends after Hillary beat his ass on substantive issues during a high-stakes debate. A kind of “I showed HER” thing where they all yuck it up about how she’s not worth the dog poop on his shoe. BMOC, popular clique, mean girls, Heathers kinda thing.

But, no, it’s not that at all. This was a reference to a Hip-Hop “song” by Jay-Z called, “Dirt off Your Shoulder”. You might want to read the “lyrics” to get greater insight. (Warning: Please pardon the use of the words “motherf%^&(in'” and nigga. Apparently, it is OK to refer to this song if you are a transitional, post-partisan figure who wants to get beyond race but not gender) I especially like this line:

Tryin to stretch out the coca, like a wrestler, yessir

I’m sure his daughters’ DARE instructors appreciate the meter and rhyme. See, the fact that many of us Clinton supporters find hip-hop to be as listenable as music written in the 12 tone scale, having good moments but bad quarters of an hour, well, that makes us terminally uncool. We’re just cranky blue hairs who listen to Johnny Mathis and the Ray Coniff singers. Obama’s making fun of US, as well as being disrespectful and unpresidential.

Well, I’m glad we cleared that up. I feel better, don’t you?

Update: The Birdman of Obamaland strikes again in another video. (Kudos to jawbone for the new moniker) To *me*, it looks like a different location, different crowd. Same phrases, same gesture. It wasn’t an itch he had to scratch. It’s deliberate and it is what it is. He flips her the bird and thinks he’s being clever, swayve and deboner. Oh, and NPR reporters who fail to mention it, for whatever reason, are collaborating, not cool.

Update 2: This comment from huntingtonpost tells me all I need to know about the Obama attitude towards *us*:

Plain as day to all except the Democratic National Committee who say he was just scratching his nose. I called the Obama campaign to complain: 1-866-675-2008 and they LAUGHED. They all think it is a great big cut up. Perhaps if we all call he’ll have to own up to it before the PA vote on Apr. 22.

They laughed.  Hmmm, maybe they won’t think it’s so funny if their phone lines are jammed.

81 Responses

  1. Sounds like someone *wants* their Sister Souljah moment!

  2. Sounds like someone is a putz.

  3. Myiq2xu: I hope you aren’t referring to me.

  4. Sometimes I feel like this is all one big, horrible dream. Could you imagine waking up and trying to explain it to someone.

  5. Honora: It’s surrealistic for sure. No, i never in a million years thought that someone of Hillary’s quality could come this close to being beaten by a man like Obama. No experience, no knowledge base, no legislative accomplishments, no class. AND he thinks half of his base are stupid LOSERS.
    Never on my wildest dreams.
    I guess it’s all *her* fault.

  6. Boy, am I worried. Is this all helping McCain? All I know is, you younger folks gotta come out and VOTE for whoever gets nominated, Hillary or Barack. And I’m an old white buck of 79!

  7. Honora: I’d have no problem explaining this to anyone, and it’s a wonder we have reached 2008 and are only now seeing it. Obama is selling his candidacy the way everything is sold, especially to young people. It’s about a feeling…you first decide what feelings you want to elicit, and then you tailor the pitch,. The substance of the product is irrelevant: they’re just sneakers, they’re just cell phones, and he’s just an average junior senator. But The Pitch can make an average or even substandard product a must-have.

    Malcolm Gladwell’s The Tipping Point is probably what made Obama decide that, jeez, he could be president. If Keds became sexy again thanks to a random encounter, he could plan this thing out, pick his pavlovian message goals, and get to the presidency with only token commitment to the values of his party. As with all viral marketing campaigns, he could let the customers do the work.

    The cliche for over a generation has been “the selling of the president,” but Obama is the first candidate to take to heart how products and services are sold in the New Millenium. It’s insanely frustrating, because he’s an empty suit (and something of a brat) who wants to knock out an exemplary progressive candidate, but I’m just glad he isn’t a Nazi..because they’d love him anyway.

  8. seev78: My vote is valuable and if Barry wants it, he has to *earn* it. A couple of months ago, I might have been able to vote for Obama. But I simply can’t do it at this point. I’m not trying to be an obstruction. I’m just disgusted and I can’t do it. If you’re worried about McCain, telling me to vote for Barry is probably not you’re best strategy. You might want to fire off note to Howard Dean. He’s responsible for this abomination of a primary season.

  9. Jon Stewart made asses out of the MSM debate moderators but then proceeded to demolish Obama. He showed the hypocrisy of Obama’s statement with regards to what he calls distractions and then showed a clip of the Obama’s cluelessness on the important issues. Wonderful!!! Obama should have been content with the flag pin questions, according to Stewart. If you can get that clip, it is priceless!

  10. It’s not that Obama is an ass, it’s that he’s rallying the troups by using Hillary Hatred. He disses Hillary using rap references. It reinforces group solidarity. Hillary’s low information women, old people, and lunch bucket typical whites are not cool enough to understand the cultural references that Obamanauts do.

    There is also the “bros before hos” thing going on here.

    Obama and his Alinksy fan pals are doing all this deliberately.

  11. RD, Myiq2xu, you are too funny. And yes, I do feel a little uncomfortable right now. I mean, what will the inaugurable ball be like? Off the hook? (I think that’s sooo yesterday.)

    Honora, you nailed it. I started feeling like this race was an ugly nightmare when the Rev. Wright gaffe was turned into our problem. “We aren’t dealing with race, we need to look deeper.” Huh, we were all getting along just fine until Barry didn’t have the political smarts to realize Rev. Wright was a liability.

    These guys are the masters of turning anything, including the last debate, into our problem not Barry’s.

    Last night on Colbert, Barry put “manufactured campaign distractions” on the Notice Board. How about we put Barry on the board.

  12. I am going to call the DNC today, and every legislator in my state who endorsed this bozo and ask them to retract their endorsements, or I will write opinion letters to every local newspaper about this. Wow, I am so disgusted.

    I mean, we all know that when you are a minority, whether it’s a woman or an ethnic or racial minority, and you hold a high position in public, you have to be better than the others. Did Cheney might be able to say “f” you to people, but we all know he’s a scumbag and he wasn’t elected anyway. I am not going to ask for Clinton endorsements when I call today, because I want to say it’s not about him vs. her and their endorsement, but that they should retract theirs from him. Do we want our kids knowing this behavior is OK?

    When I was real little I told my parents I wanted to be president. My dad said, “Then everything you do in life must be above board. It should be anyway, but never do anything you would be ashamed to have others know.” If Obama isn’t ashamed of himself, and I am sure he isn’t, he should be.

  13. RD: Why would I mean you? Obama the one who is acting like that.

    “Feelin no remorse, feelin like my hand was forced
    Middle finger to the law, nigga grippin ma balls

    That’s what an Ivy League education will get you.

  14. And while I’m watching the video I can’t stop thinking “What does Beyonce see in this guy?” I digress.

  15. Only a little bit O/T.

    A connection the press hasn’t noticed … Bernadine Dohrn, (the Bonnie to Ayer’s Clyde) from wiki:

    From 1984 to 1988, Dohrn was employed by the law firm Sidley Austin, although her criminal record has prevented her from being admitted to either the New York or Illinois bar

    That’s the Obama law firm — the one where MO mentored Barry. What a small world.

    I find it interesting that these one-time radicals are now all about the system.

    Another thing that blows my mind … a good friend of mine is a scientist at a national lab. His position requires a clearance. It was held up for two years, one of the problems being that his brother voluntarily chose to live in northern Europe. My friend was grilled as to WHY would his brother even want to live outside the US!

    Another friend is an American who took up Arabic studies at Georgetown. She spent time in the ME to improve her language skills. Now there’s all kinds of defense contractors looking for people w/ Arabic language skills, but guess what? She can’t get a clearance. It’s considered extremely suspicious that she chose to take up Arabic when, you know, she didn’t have to.

    Yet, I read in today’s NYT that sooooperdelegates aren’t a bit fazed by all of these characters associated w/ Obama. Fine. Stop harassing American citizens over far less!

  16. myiqu2xu:

    “Feelin no remorse, feelin like my hand was forced
    Middle finger to the law, nigga grippin ma balls

    That’s what an Ivy League education will get you.

    The Hip-Hop generation is leaving the Demos. That’s right, 1 in 3 black voters 18-24 are registering independent, and a good nr that are registered Dems say they’re open to either party.

    The only way to get the Dems to pay attention is by leaving … ball-grippin’ is optional.

  17. I feel my beloved Democratic Party slipping away. I marched against the war, held meetings in my home, made signs, pushed a baby carriage to protest Cambodia, manned phones, did it all. And even when my candidate lost the general I remained faithful to the party because I believed in the fairness of what it means to be a Democrat. However, this group of party hacks has made me feel, and from the postings on this blog many more like me, as though I have evaporated. Not counting votes, allowing sexism to flourish, backing a complete unknown with a thin resume over accomplished competitors, (notably Edwards), threatening and abusing superdelegates, the list of their tactics goes on. Should he be the nominee my only form of protest is my vote. I will withhold. In all consciousness I cannot support McCain and the Republican agenda nor can I ignore my principals in casting my vote for a man I have come to dislike so strongly. It pains me to say so but if he becomes the nominee I am out. Becoming and Independent may possibly help the Democratic Party to wake up when they begin to lose the donor base.

  18. hlr,
    I was wondering about the security clearance issue too. My dad and more briefly my mom worked for an Atomic Research Laboratory in the 40s-60s. And The FBI or someone interviewed just about everyone my folks ever met. My grandmother got calls from neighbors in the 1920s who were contacted.

    Have they stopped doing those extensive interviews?

  19. seev78: Sorry, but this young, black buck of 34 is having LOTS of trouble with an Obama nomination. The more he goes on, the more disconnected I feel towards his candidacy. And that matters this go ’round. As I have zero intention of voting simply for the “Democratic” nominee in the GE. Nope. Like RD says, if Barack wants it, he’s gonna have to EARN it. And at this point, I’m not sure there’s really much he could do to change my mind short of, say, changing his name to “Hillary Clinton”. Heh. But seriously, he and his camp have done loads of damage. And until it’s acknowledged, full on, whaddya want me to do?

  20. I just got the kids to stop copying off each other’s papers (and declaring it perfectly OK), now I’m going to have a classroom full of kids shooting each other the bird and brushing off their shoulders…

    I’m getting a little tired of Obama’s “too cool for school” routine…

  21. Seriously, this fool is delusional. He got his ass handed to him. Hell he fucked himself over and then he has the stupidity to think he somehow handled himself well!

    C’mon, Hillary! Beat him in PA and IN so we can get rid of this b****-ass fool once and for all.

    And as a twentysomething, I’ll never understand how it’s all of a sudden “cool” for a man in his damn 40s to pretend he’s all hip-hop. C’mon!

  22. katiebird: Have they stopped doing those extensive interviews?

    Hell, no.

  23. hlr: Well then. This is THE weirdest situation. WHO picked this guy?

  24. katiebird — rest assured that if your father was a non-citizen (and I call BS on “immigrant”); your mother voluntarily chose to pick up and move to Indonesia; you spent four years in Indonesia; you hang out occasionally with folks who at one time had a penchant for blowing things up; you sat on a board that funded pro-Palestinian groups and finally, you have an issue with finding your ‘records,’ well, the US govt isn’t going to give you a clearance any time soon.

    Not saying that clearance screening is necessarily the gold standard, but just the other day, I was talking to one of the guards standing outside of DOJ. His job is simply to shoo away cars that idle too long in front of the building. For this, he was vetted!

  25. katiebird – I’d love to know the answer to that question. I’m usally skeptical about conspiracy theories, but I’m starting to get frightened.

    Maybe it was one of those “right place, right time” things for Obama. He fell in with a group of people who had their won agenda and used him as a front man. I think riverdaughter is right – some Democrats want to win an election without the rank-and-file Democrats.

    Just like most companies would like to get rid of all their employees. So much easier.

  26. This is for you women here -Obama is depending on all of you worriers to suck it up and vote for him. Hillary bashing is OK, and after all, you’re a woman, so a pat on the head will do.

    If you want to do that, then do so.

    I’m not worried about McCain at all. I’ll vote for all the downticket Dems so he will be unable to pass forward any agenda.

    Obama cannot get my vote and I will not concede.

  27. Finally!

    When I watched the short video yesterday, I didn’t really care because I seriously didn’t think he showed her the finger.

    But then I saw the longer version on Swamppolitics and I was infuriated. I know exactly the gesture he did, because I grew up doing it. I didn’t even know that particular rap song from Jay-Z (apparently I am one the few blacks who couldn’t care less about Jay-Z).

    That gesture is so insulting, it has resulted in fisticuffs. The large meaning is that you are bird poop and I am getting that off my expensive clothing.

    Finally people are the picking up the real offense in that performance.

  28. Riverdaughter…lookey here!!!!

    From your comment on your own thread late last night on the first finger BO flipped…HERE’S PROOF THAT HE KNEW WHAT HE WAS DOING. ABSOLUTE PROOF.
    jawbone, on April 18th, 2008 at 1:27 am Said:

    Commenter over at TL found second rally, but with black crowd–same words, same pause, same gesture, but with even more vocal crowd reaction.

    Not only did he give the FU gesture about a fellow senator, but he definitely planned to do so. (Wonder if he practiced it in the mirror, getting all his anger out about the debate. )

    Busted, Barry! But good.

    Defiitively flipped Hilary the bird.

    The BIrd Man of Obamaland.

  29. riverdaughter – WAIT – I think the video above is the same one with a third view. DO NOT state that it’s a difference speech, same gesture.

    UNLESS you can confirm that it’s a different speech. SORRY!!

  30. Sha: I’ve watched them both several times and it appears to *me* that they are two separate instances.

  31. There a 2 different videos.

    Watch the people in the background.

    Now I know he did show her the finger. I’m done with this guy.

  32. I gonna send a pterosaur wearing a Hillary sign to fly right over Obama’s head.

  33. NO, no no. Same speech, dfiferent camera angles. Check the grey-haired white guy under the big ‘W’ in the lite blue shirt, Obama sticker on (his) left boob, guy in the pink shirt seated next rung down.

    This does mean there are at least 3 good clips, ffrom widely separated camera postitions (left, ctr, right) … enough to create a good 3D reconstruction!

    I have no doubt Obama uses this gesture habitually in more private settings. Takes a bit of practice to curl that pointer while extending the middle finger, and presenting it at an unnatural angle (different from a real face scratch or brush).

  34. ronk: They are slightly different. In one, he says “she’s” before he makes the gesture; in the other, I don’t hear that. Watch them both. I’ve gone over both several times.

  35. ronk:

    It’s 2 different places, same speech. Watch above BO’s shoulders.

  36. Plain as day to all except the Democratic National Committee who say he was just scratching his nose. I called the Obama campaign to complain: 1-866-675-2008 and they LAUGHED. They all think it is a great big cut up. Perhaps if we all call he’ll have to own up to it before the PA vote on Apr. 22.

  37. I”m all for calling BO out, but they are the same video. He says the “she” in both at the same place. You need to retract.

  38. Yes, it is the same rally. I watched it several times, the cadences of the speech of the same, the people are the same, it’s just different angles.

  39. http://abcnews.go.com:80/Video/playerIndex?id=4675790

    Watch the video, Obama reads the cue in the script to scratch his head with his middle finger at 1:18. A woman notes the gesture and tells her friend.

    Yes, Hillary was in her element–displaying a deep knowledge and love of policy and the condition of our country and its people. Very different from Obama’s element, which has been more of the kind of get-rich quick scheme, big ad campaign to create an image, and a person who has been immensely lucky in his short political career–no wonder the wonky policy and working across-the-aisles work in the Senate bores him.
    Obama believes his own ad campaign. He is the self-appointed Mick Jagger of American politics.

    “HER RIGHT” to “TWIST the NUT” — now there’s a sexist joke here (and Hillary figurine nutcrackers are on sale, but Obama figurines exaggerating racial characteristics would be considered tasteless), but what comes across more to me is what an arrogant sexist nutcase he is.

    I find W.’s personality more appealing. At least George respects women.

  40. desert dawg: I put in a qualification.

  41. tiffany mentioned The John Stewart Show. This one’s for her [the goodness starts at about 1:40, if my memory serves me right]:

    John Stewart’s monologue, part 3 [April 17, 2008]

    Also, nuthin’ wrong in askin’ the junior senator from Illinois straight up and to his face if he actually gave Hillary the finger [flippin’ the bird is too cutesy pie]. That would help clarify the did he or did he not debate.

    If he says, no, I was just scratching my face, with a straight face, then we’d know he was a bully and a liar, too. How he acknowledges the disrepect is a clue to how a real conversation could start.

    Yeah, about what an immature guy he is, just playing mind games but not for peace.

    I’d sure love for Maya Angelou to weigh in on this. Doesn’t she teach right up the road from Raleigh in Winston-Salem?

    In the meantime, I’m going to rehearse my question in case the forces of the universe conspire to put Barack Obama and me into the same room together any time soon:

    Senator, why did you believe it was okay to give Mrs. Clinton the finger in Raleigh on April 17th?

    You know, like a lawyer would ask in a courtroom. Then play his answer over and over, like the media did with Dean’s eeeeyaaaa moment.

  42. cb: I think GWB doesn’t respect women, he just fakes it better.

    In fact I don’t think GWB really respects anybody he doesn’t fear.

  43. I watched what appeared to be two distinct videos yesterday. One had a bunch of ladies right behind him and the other was primarily AA adudience. The angle of the gesture appeared to be about the same.

    I thought it was a little funny, the first time I saw it, in a high school way (the same way fake plastic vomit on the floor is funny, too) but seeing it scripted and twice in the same day… that is NOT funny.

  44. katiebird, on April 18th, 2008 at 8:57 am Said:

    I was wondering about the security clearance issue too. My dad and more briefly my mom worked for an Atomic Research Laboratory in the 40s-60s. And The FBI or someone interviewed just about everyone my folks ever met. My grandmother got calls from neighbors in the 1920s who were contacted.

    Have they stopped doing those extensive interviews

    Not for the Top Secret Clearances. They require a Special Background Investigation. Usually what happens is that you list 3 or 4 references, then they interview those references asking for others that might know you and then go and interview those folks. They know that you’re going list favorable folk. They also interview your neighbors. You’ve got to list where you’ve been since you were sixteen. If you’re someone like me who’s moved a lot it can be a bear.

  45. From urbandictionary.com–thought I’d posted it, but can’t find it. Apologize if a double.

    1. brush your shoulders off (Rating 87 up, 9 down )

    1)”The Brush” can be used in many different occasions. Basically any occasion where you feel like “It aint no thing”.
    2) The Brush is used as a symbol of “Trying to forget” or “forgotten”

    1)”I got action from 4 different girls this weekend!” * Brushes shoulder *

    2)”Yo I Just broke up with my girlfriend last night” * Brushes shoulders

    MABlue said this was a recognizable gesture, had used it–what about the either getting something off shoe or lower pantsleg–anyone recognize that? Other than getting dog poo off a shoe? Is this common gesture?

  46. Seems to me like he was showing that, like teflon, no Wright-gate, Bitter-gate, Rezko-gate or other Coming-soon-gate will stick on him.

  47. A bit from “Brown Sugar” by the Rolling Stones, Hillary’s fave.

    “I bet your mama was a tent show queen, and all her boy
    Friends were sweet sixteen.
    Im no schoolboy but I know what I like,
    You should have heard me just around midnight.

    Ah brown sugar how come you taste so good
    (a-ha) brown sugar, just like a young girl should.

    I said yeah, I said yeah, I said yeah, I said
    Oh just like a, just like a black girl should.”

    Are we going to attribute these lyrics to her such she has such a strong admiration for the Stones and has since 1965?

  48. I was going to say I have that Jay-Z album but checking my itunes it appears I only have an older one here, I’ve heard that song many times. I have to say.. that’s not a reference to that song.. I suppose the song might be talking about a common gesture but there’s no specific gesture that is taken from the song. And anyway, Jay-Z is a huge media mogul these days, on the cover of People magazine, as for picking apart his lyrics.. sure there is stuff that offends (and yet.. the way he uses language is pretty brilliant IMHO).. but no need to go there, it’s not relevant to the presidential race.

    I did think it was tacky for Obama to say that “she’s in her element” and his demeanor was awfully dismissive but that’s as far as I’d go.

  49. Is there anyone here who can post the three videos side by side, so we can try to pin down whether it’s the same rally or not?

    After I commented last night about the two apparently different videos, I went back and forth to try to be sure. I noted that in each the tie is striped, but the coloration of the whole piece on YouTibe is lighter, and the tie initially appeared to be a pink one, the suit a shade of gray. After review, I thought I had pinned down a light gray-haired white guy and a bald black guy ([partially covered in one version) who appeared to be the same people.

    So I retracted my initial thought there were two different rallies (what was his schedule on the 17th?), and corrected my conclusion. Much as it pained me….

    Others think it is two different rallies, so a side-by-side would be very helpful.

    Can that be done? Can someone here do it? Thnx!

  50. I called the DNC and was hung up on twice by different people without so much as a goodbye. I am done. I am no longer a Democrat. Hillary still gets my vote if she is the nominee, but I am coming off the party rolls today!

  51. that said from watching the vid linked here & audience reaction “oooooh!” my take is.. a subtle, practiced way of flipping the bird. to me it reads like a communication from speaker to audience “we all know what I’m really saying here – f*** that.” Not a gesture you’d give in the presence of someone as a way to insult them to their face, but a gesture that’s part of the communication between you & those you’re talking to. probably the younger & more pro-Obama you are, you think “hah, I would totally do that” but really, do we want a president who does that? No. Maybe I’m wrong but that’s what I’m seeing.

  52. “Ray Coniff ”



    it is like…i wish i had a buck for everytime i heard someone say they were not voting for obama and his supporters said…”why are you a bigot?”…

    they are the ones struggling to get past the race issue imo….

  53. This isn’t the kind of thing Obama could apologize for, because it’s so infantile. So he will have to double-down, deny that he did anything of the sort, and hope it goes away…not an unreasonable hope, given his luck thus far.

  54. Iglesias said this was cool in that Obama brought together the Jay-Z shoulder reference with a Rolling Stones’ reference about shit-off-your-shoe. Commenter said it was “Sweet Virginia” —

    Wading through the waste stormy winter
    And there’s not a friend to help you through
    Trying to stop the waves behind your eyeballs
    Drop your reds drop your greens and blues

    Thank you for your wine, California
    Thank you for your sweet and bitter fruits
    Yes, I’ve got the desert in my toenail
    And hid the speed inside my shoe

    But come on come on down Sweet Virginia
    Come on honey child I beg of you

    Come on come on down you got it in you
    Got to scrape that shit right off your shoes

    Ooooooookay. Wow, I am so out of it. Talk about speaking in code!

    Now, a speaker who wished to be inclusive would give audiences at least a clue to understanding such a thing. Unless the speaker is too cool…. IMHO, which is that of an older female demographic.

    Of course, the brushing the shoulder action could signify meanings to those who don’t know about the Jay-Z thing, such as bird doo, dandruff., just anything which could drift down onto one’s shoulder. Most of which would be something undesirable or even nasty. And that’s what the connection was supposed to be: Hillary is some nasty shit, so just brush her off.


    Again, imagine the outcry if Hillary had done this about Obama. Just imagine….

  55. Re: security clearance–I imagine the president can give security clearance to just about anyone?

    Well, maybe just that being president is the person’s security clearance. Maybe prez can’t just say someone should be given clearance–except informally through him or her own decisions to share info…?

  56. Now, is there a street name for this kind of subtle birdflip? Made so there’s some deniability?

  57. jawbone – no, the president cannot just give security clearance ti anyone.

  58. Jawbone: The song is called “Dirt Off Your Shoulder”. I don’t know if it has another name but it would be abbreviated DOYS. It has a certain cache.

  59. Ray Coniff Singers? You know, Red Roses for a Blue Lady? Nevermind, it was an early childhood memory and one that left me traumatized for years. Give me the Stones and some Clapton and I’m happy. (Of course, I wouldn’t go around making cultural references to Cocaine at a campaign rally if I were running for president because I think it’s about as politically stupid as it gets but that’s just me.)

  60. “But then I saw the longer version on Swamppolitics and I was infuriated. I know exactly the gesture he did, because I grew up doing it. I didn’t even know that particular rap song from Jay-Z (apparently I am one the few blacks who couldn’t care less about Jay-Z).”

    Right. It goes back to the Eighties, at least, long before Jay Z recorded that song. He’s more likely to be channeling Salt N’ Pepa:).

    Fisticuffs? Really?

  61. Did The Onion start a blog?:))

  62. RD says : It’s surrealistic for sure. No, i never in a million years thought that someone of Hillary’s quality could come this close to being beaten by a man like Obama.

    Yeah, but, the world’s richest man got his money from marketing the crappiest possible operating program.

    Never understimate the power of mass marketing (aks: propaganda). Remember: Axelrod, astroturf

  63. That is the same Jay-Z song Obama played after Iowa. It was discussed on DK at the time–in the days when it was still permissible to do that. The line about having problems, but the bitch ain’t one. Lots of Obamadroids thought it was really funny at the time. It was reported by some media outlets.

    If the DNC is really defending Obama and hanging up on Democrats who complain, I’m going to go down and change my registration next week. I’ve really had it with Howard Dean and his gang.

  64. 99 problems is a different song.

    Did anyone notice the weird pinky finger scratch before
    the flip-off?

  65. I’m sorry, but it sounds to me like you’re all just desperately trying to find a “gotcha” moment that can miraculously save it all for Hillary. What’s ironic is that the actual speech Obama is giving in these video clips is exactly on this subject. In fact the gesture might be intentionally ironic.

    I don’t like Presidential candidates flipping the finger at each other and I think that act does show a lapse in judgement and perspective on Obama’s part. Despite being tasteless, it makes the campaign look like something personal between Clinton and himself.

    But even if Obama seems to have momentarily forgotten, he is right that Presidential campaigns are not really about “gotcha” moments. My support for Obama over Clinton is not based on any notion that he is a perfect person who will never make a gaffe. Far from it. But his intelligence, political values, and determination to get us well and truly past the last twelve years of GOP neoconservative politics make him the better choice for President than someone like Hillary Clinton who seems far too willing to compromise with the worst elements of the GOP.

  66. johnrobert: Hmmm, where to start. Well, how about, what intelligence did he display during Wednesday’s debate? What did he say or do that inspired confidence in you to “get us well and truly past the last twelve years of GOP neoconservative politics”?
    BTW, you might be too young to remember this, but Bill Clinton was president from 1992-2000. I know some people get all confused but he was a Democrat. The Congress was a bunch of movement conservatives who were mean spirited assholes.
    Anyway, why don’t you run along and do your homework. I don’t think there’s anything you can add to this conversation, at least not for a few more years.

  67. madmonq: No, it was a politically stupid and cowardly act performed by a man who was humiliated in the previous night’s debate and who was looking to get his mojo back in a crowd of friendlies. Just because you failed to recognize it for what it truly was does not make it insignificant. If it blows up on you, you may want to council your candidate to stop doing career ending behavior.

  68. How totally ghetto! Obama is so cool. He’s straight off the block of Honolulu. 🙂

  69. “But even if Obama seems to have momentarily forgotten, he is right that Presidential campaigns are not really about “gotcha” moments. ”

    His entire campaign is fueled on gotcha moments of Hillary and her supporters. The Ferrarro off hand comment found 12 paragraph in some local yookle newspaper in February and hoisted on the public by Axelrod on the eve of the Mississippi primary. The “planted” question in Iowa, pushed relentlessly by the Obama campaign. The picture of him in somali garb, having zero to do with Hillary’s campaign, for which he accused her of over and over again. Come on.

  70. A different perspective

    He is clearly extending multiple fingers.

  71. His gestures showed his lack of maturity and his obvious annoyance with himself, his reality of coming up short at the big debate. Remember the shuck n jive issue, well Obama was shuckin’ ‘n jivin’ at his best for the whole world to see, what a juvenile thing to do, and not at all presidential.

  72. The Obama surrogates has made race as an issue in this primary (with the blessings of the Obama campaign?) and race bait, too ,maybe as a counterpoint to whatever future controversies and scandals that Obama might have in the future. He has made race and race baiting the central portion of his campaign. It is with a certainty that Obama surrogates(with the blessings of the Obama campaign?) will answer every controversy and scandal with statements pertaining to race.

    Remember the time when the Somali tribal dress that Barack wore in 2006 and was leaked thru the Drudge Report? David Plouffe immidiately accused the Clinton team of ’shameful offensive fear-mongering’. Then there is the op-ed of Orlando Patterson in the NY times which tried to put race in the 3am ad of Sen. Clinton.To qoute the 1st paragraph of the op-ed:

    “On first watching Hillary Clinton’s recent “It’s 3 a.m.” advertisement, I was left with an uneasy feeling that something was not quite right — something that went beyond my disappointment that she had decided to go negative. Repeated watching of the ad on YouTube increased my unease. I realized that I had only too often in my study of America’s racial history seen images much like these, and the sentiments to which they allude.” And that is only the 1st paragraph.

    Then there is the latest “brushing the dirt off the shoulder” incident which the Obama surrogates(?) has linked to the Jay Z song, “Dirt Off Your Shoulder”, a racially charged song (see this web link and judge for yourself.)http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/jayz/dirtoffyourshoulder.html

    This can be construed as race baiting tactics of the Obama team and surrogates. It only needs a spark.

    Please forward to your friends because it is imperative that the American people know who the real Barack Obama is and the way it is seen by me is he wants the race card to be front and foremost always. This could be his strategy up to the GE ( in case he wins the primary) and, heaven forbid, up to the presidency ( in case he wins it.)

  73. It is a different location, but the AA in the background with glasses is the same guy. In the first video after the “bird” he turns to his neighbor to explain what Obama did. In the second video he does not. Why the same guy is at 2 rallies I leave it to you to decide — a dedicated supporter? a volunteer? A million reasons why. But his presence doesn’t matter — he doesn’t turn to his neighbor to explain in the second video, proving it is two different times Obama “just so happened to scratch his check with his middle finger while explain how Hillary was ‘in her element.'”

  74. just to clarify, I’m referring the AA guy on the left of the screen behind Obama — he is wearing a orangish shirt & glasses.

  75. Regarding Angie’s observation, it looks as if the man is wearing a white shirt the other video, though I could be mistaken.

  76. riverdaughter: I was going to write a thoughtful response listing my reasons for thinking that Obama would be a better President, but that might well be wasted effort so instead I’ll just make one quick point.

    Hillary’s only hope of winning this thing is a massive conversion of people who currently support Obama. The sneering, dismissive tone of your reply to my post cannot possibly help her achieve that. Many of the posters on this blog, yourself included, seem to have moved beyond mere Obama-hating to contempt for anyone who supports Obama. That isn’t a winning strategy for you.

    And since it’s such a large part of your reply, I just have to ask, what error of intuition or chain of tortured reasoning leads you to believe that I’m younger than you? If your avatar bears any actual resemblance to you then I feel comfortable in saying that you are younger than me by one or two decades. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

  77. Johnrobert: You are right. Many of us have a lot of antipathy towards Obama supporters. We started out thinking we could get behind him but then his supporters went to Guyana and treated us like we were illegitimate voters whose votes didn’t count. We could be easily dismissed. And then there was the sexism and the excessively negative media coverage for Clinton. At the time it started, we warned the candidates and party officials that it would come to bite the frontrunner in the ass if it wasn’t dealt with immediately. But Obama and the others were just having too much fun at Hillary’s expense. He could have stood up for his fellow human being but instead he decided to take advantage of it. Now he’s paying for it.
    And then there is MI and FL. Hillary’s campaign offered to pay for revotes if the delegations weren’t seated as is. Obama would have no part of it because it was politically expedient to look like he was ahead of her, giving him an aura of inevitability, even as it disenfranchised *all* of the other Clinton states that will lack the critical mass of Florida and Michigan to affect the outcome.
    Your candidate and his supporters have behaved despicably towards fellow party members. I have yet to see anything on the Clinton side that even comes close. Even her reputation of being a tireless advocate for bridging the racial divide has been dragged through the mud. It’s unconscionable. We are really just astonished by the hatred of some of our own party members towards us as if we were all just inconvenient, stupid, uneducated women. Nothing could be farther from the truth.
    As for a winning strategy, I know Hillary won’t say it out loud but there is no way your candidate can win. And the reason he hasn’t sown up more SD’s is because they are waiting for the final act that is about to commence. When the dust settles she *will* be our nominee.
    BTW, I’m older than I look but there are other pics of me on this site. search on “soft focus”

  78. ‘But his intelligence, political values, and determination to get us well and truly past the last twelve years of GOP neoconservative politics make him the better choice for President than someone like Hillary Clinton who seems far too willing to compromise with the worst elements of the GOP.’

    This is where actually investigating your candidate’s stands, instead of just assuming that if Hillary does X Obama must say Y would help out. Obama’s desire to move beyond partisanship and its divisiveness and work with Republicans is sort of THE central message of his campaign. Where this translates into fighting the GOP (is it mocking fighting the GOP? Trashing Democratic Presidents and praising Republican ones, hailing Repubicans as members of teh party of ideas? Repeating Republican talking points on Social Security, health care, the 90’s? is it how he can;t answer questions about policy?) is a mystery.

    “Hillary’s only hope of winning this thing is a massive conversion of people who currently support Obama”

    Again, how’s that? Most of Obama’s support is coming from Republicans. Unlikely to switch to Hillary. Among Democrats she’s leading, and among pretty much every significant group within the Democratic party, save African Americans. Her hope of winning this thing is that after she continues to win all the states where many people live, the vast majority of states we can carry and need in the general, and states that hold caucuses rather than primaries, the superdelegates realize that someone who’s popular among Democrats is a better choice to be the Democratic nominee and that bloggers probably don’t outnumber women, working class voters, gays and lesbians, Latinos, Asian Americans, Catholics. All the groups whose low turnout cost us 2004 and who prefer Mccain to Obama.

  79. that gesture toward hillary has stuck in my mind. in fact it is burned into my memory to the point that if obama is elected president, i no longer want to live here. think about what four years of him will be like. he will finish destroying the democratic party while the repubs regroup. mccain is a disaster but he might be more of caretaker type president. hillary can run again in four years and obama will be (is he STILL around?).

  80. man it was a great moment, he wasn’t hurting or dissing anyone by this, get ur head outta ur ass

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