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Are Dean and Obama united against seating FL & MI?

Did Donna Brazile reveal a secret yesterday in this conversation with George Stephanopoulos & George Will? Ranting about the hopelessness of Hillary’s fight for seating the Michigan and Florida delegations, Brazile explained that Dean appointed 25 members to the Credentials Committee and the states each get to appoint 3 members. And (she said) since Obama has won more states than Hillary — The Math is against her. Fighting on is useless. Brazile says it’s over:

Hillary’s battle for Florida and Michigan

Earlier this week in an interview with Greta Van Susteren, Hillary stayed firm:

Clinton said, barring a resolution on Florida and Michigan, the fight goes to convention.

“You know, you can always go to the convention. That’s what credential fights are for,” she said. “Let’s have the Democratic party go on record against seating the Michigan and Florida delegations three months before the general election? I don’t think that will happen. I think they will be seated. So that’s where we’re headed if we don’t get this worked out.” (bold by me)

Donna Brazile implies that Dean & Obama are united in their plans to exclude the Michigan and Florida delegations (at least as long as their votes matter). And she further implies that only Hillary supporters think it matters. But does she really speak for Howard Dean when she claims the 25 committee members he appointed are firmly against seating those two states?

As Democrats, I think it’s our responsibility to find out. Here’s the DNC link for sending comments to Howard Dean. Let’s ask him if Brazile has The Math right.  And let him know that Hillary Speaks for Us.

40 Responses

  1. Notably, Brazile got the Credentials Committee composition wrong today. its members are apportioned on the dame basis as convention delgate — not 3 per state as Brazile suggested.

    The DNC Chair appoints an additional 25 members. Is the fix in? I don’t think so.

    First, I think Howard Dean is a Party guy, not an Obama guy, even if he;s had a big clumsy hand in creating this debacle.

    Second, CC members tend to be Party guys and gals … especially the Party’s rules wonks and history geeks. They will look at the seating questions from a broader perspective than more of us.

    Third, pacing the CC appointments with hardcore partisans for one or another contender would create divisive tensions in each state’s delgation … which is just what most state chairs do NOT want.

    Let’s hope we don’t have to go there, but the Credentials Committee is still a live option (and will get livelier as Hillary demonstrates strength in the remaining events)..

  2. One thing to remember is that we’re Democrats. Marching in lockstep has never been our style, just ask Will Rogers.

    It’s more like herding cats.

    No way does Dean or anyone else have a lock on the votes of delegates or committee members.

    ESPECIALLY if they are feeling pressure from voters and donors.

    So call-write-email everyone you can.

    Dean, Brazile, your Democratic congressmen & state Democratic officials (they are superdelegates.)

    Be a squeaky wheel.

  3. PS – Be polite!

  4. kbird: goog post.

    What is Ms Brazile going to do if her version of the math and her own interpretation of the rules don’t give her candidate the nomination?

  5. BTD @ TL links to a good diary on DKos regarding that issue and surprise surprise…

    In other words Brazile’s basic statement, that the Credentials Committee is made up of 3 members per state, is wrong. It’s made up a delegation of 158 votes, allocated to each state in the same proportion as the pledged delegates are.

    What does this change? It could change much; each state elects their own credential committee members; and Clinton won states with the most Electoral College votes. She just might have a majority on the Credential Committee right now. Update in a few after I do some more addition.

    UPDATE II: As of right now (based on already resolved state primaries), from these states: New Hampshire, Nevada, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Oklahoma, Rhode Island, Tennessee, Ohio: Clinton will have 61.44 votes on the Credentials Committee.

    From these states: Iowa, South Carolina, Alabama, Alaska, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Georgia, Idaho, Illinois, Kansas, Minnesota, Missouri, North Dakota, Texas, Utah, Louisiana, Nebraska, Washington, Maine, DC, Maryland, Virginia, Hawaii, Wisconsin, Vermont, Wyoming, Mississippi, Obama will have 70.22 votes on the credentials committee.

    States I haven’t counted in: Pennsylvania, Guam, Indiana, North Carolina, West Virginia, Kentucky, Oregon, Puerto Rico, Montana, South Dakota, Democrats Abroad, Virgin Islands, American Samoa, which make up 26.33 votes remaining.

    Thus, there is a razor thin margin here, where indeed Clinton has more of a chance in a credentials fight than Donna Brazille’s (incorrect) division of votes. With the 25 DNC members, and 26.33 members still to be elected in future primaries, a majority on the credentials committee can be had by either candidate.

    The credentials committee will submit their majoity report to the convention floor, which will state who is credentialed and who is not. Further to the DNC rules (in the same document above, Sec VII, B, 2), a minority of the committee composed of only 20% of its membership may submit a minority report, which will be voted on at the convention floor, too.

  6. Call everyone else a racist, probably…

    She’s been threatening to leave the Party if her man doesn’t wind up the nominee. Make of that what you will.

  7. I’ve read many posts over the months on different pro-Clinton blogs from many people who have contacted Brazile and received rude responses. I guess it’s good that she actually responds to us but I’ve read that she responds quite angrily because she’s gotten so many emails from Clinton supporters. Has she not figured out why we continue to contact her? She is one of the most ignorant women in our party right now. She can’t even hide her bias against Clinton. From the start of this election she’s wanted Obama to win and it is because of race. She wants a black man in the White House and she will do anything to get him the nomination. I suspect that she will be one of the first to complain if seating MI and FL leads to Clinton winning the nomination. She is ridiculous.

  8. Okay, this email to Gov. Dean in response to him asking for money for the DNC is childish, but I am super duper pissed.


    Gov. Dean,

    The first time we contributed to a political campaign was to your presidential run in 2000. Since then, we have contributed to individual campaigns and voted a straight Democratic ticket, despite reservations about platform and candidates, and knowing we would have to toss our interests overboard for the sake of “party unity.”

    Now we’re tired of the party taking us for granted. The DNC will get money from us the same day monkeys fly out of Donna Brazile’s butt.

    Good luck to you and your party.


  9. If Dean refuses to seat Florida and Michigan, then he has done incredible damage to the party. Have you seen my friend Ang’s latest post where she distills the various arguments about FL & MI to their most direct parts? It really lays the problem out very clearly.

    Distilling Democratic Legitimacy

    I usually post at Taylor Marsh, but the threads are too long to get into these days. I really enjoy this site! (I hope my link works)

  10. It really sounds as if the fix has been in since the beginning. It is definitely very difficult to explain some of the aberrations that we have encountered in this election cycle. The fact that all the caucus states voted overwhelmingly for Obama doesn’t make sense. The fact that the two states who had both primaries and caucuses had completely different outcomes. The only explanation is that caucuses are administered by the democratic party and primaries are administered by states. Then we get that the delegates including the superdelegates were stripped from both MI and Fla against the DNC’s own bylaws. It just doesn’t add up. I know we don’t want to believe it but I think the democratic party is corrupt to the core. Why else would all the party old-timers / elites be pushing Obama? Kerry said just today that UHC was a non-starter. What does that mean? I think when you hear Brazile’s comments about their exit strategy for the nomination, couple that with Richardson’s Judas moment, and the all out fraudulent assault on Hillary’s character it makes one wonder. When I start adding up the pieces the only thing that makes sense is that Obama has been selected by the “insiders” because they have a vested interest in keeping the status quo. Maybe after 8 years of Bush they think they have to get a democrat in the oval office to assuage the common people that way people think they are getting change but in reality it is just the same old song and dance. I don’t know. It doesn’t make much sense. What I do know is that this whole thing doesn’t smell right.

  11. Donna Brazile needs to STFU. She has drunk so much kool-ade that she can’t even understand the roolz. When she was talking, it looked like even George Will knew she was full of it. He looked like he was struggling to keep from telling her to STFU. If only I could see her in person and tell her exactly what I think of her and her candidate. No wonder Gore lost with her at the helm.

  12. gregory p– Kerry was ridiculous today too. He said that he and Ted have worked for 40 years for health care or something like that. Great, they’ve failed pretty badly then. Time for a fighter like Hillary. We need UHC whether Kerry wants it or not. I’ve had it with these guys.

  13. Only the conservative commentators make sense these days. It is because they are not in the tank for either Dem candidate so they can fairly analyze this as an outsider better than any Democrat at the moment. I only watch FOX News and when I do watch MSNBC I only listen to Joe Scarborough and Pat Buchanan these days. George Will is disgusted by Obama. I could tell right after the Rev. Wright controversy? Does anyone remember that show? George Will couldn’t even look at Brazile who was, as usual, making up excuses for why Obama would stay with a racist pastor for 20 years. Will and anyone else who isn’t in the tank for Obama can clearly see that Brazile is far from neutral in this race. I wish a conservative or someone would just call Brazile out on television and confront her about being an Obama supporter. I would have more respect for Brazile and the Obamabots on CNN and MSNBC if they just told us the truth rather than pretending to be neutral observers.

  14. Ohio: monkeys flying out of Brazile’s butt… heh heh…

    All right Conflucians , time for me to go to bed. Buenas noches.

  15. Ohio:

    I essentially told a DNC telephone donation solicitor the same thing. He was a little startled.

    No money for the DNC because of their failure to recognize the FL/MI primaries.

    50 state strategy my ass.

  16. bostonboomer, I guess Kerry and Ted tend to forget that in the first two years of the Clinton administration and all 4 years of the Carter administration the Dems had a solid majority in Congress. They could get something done if they wanted to. I am so tired of the “evil” republican bit that always seems to foil the democrats. At some point, Kerry and Ted need to stand up and admit that the problem isn’t the republicans it is themselves. It is past time for them to go.

    Health care costs are unbearable. My wife and I have 2 insurance policies through the places we work and she was told that she needed to see a specialist the other day. The initial work-up was to cost 1200 and we were on the hook for 900 of it which we had to provide up front. Since she got sick last August our medical bills have skyrocketed and of course we didn’t have the money. Just a few days later we found out that their diagnosis was incorrect and she didn’t need to see the specialist after all because her breathing problems were due to internal bleeding and she was anemic. She had surgery to correct the problem and they pumped her full of blood and is fine now.

    And the story is a lot worse for a hell of a lot of people. Especially people who are poor and are on medicaid or people who make just above the cut-off line to qualify for that program. My wife’s oldest son is married to a woman whose daughter’s child died basically because they were on medicaid and the doctors just didn’t even try to treat the baby. They kept telling her that nothing was wrong with the baby and it had meningititis. If they would have treated it early the child most likely would have been fine. What we need in this country is universal health care where everyone is treated exactly the same. We have got to get past this thought that rich people are somehow better or more special than the rest of us. Everyone deserves a quality life in this country. Nobody deserves to die because they can’t afford proper medical care. Something has got to give.

  17. someone needs to tell Donna Brazille the last time someone “had the math” was Karl Rove in 2006.

    ‘nough said.

  18. donna b screwed up gore’s 2000 campaign…guess she is working her magic on hillary’s…..go Donna you Rock!!!!! Did I say rock scratch that …I meant to say you SUCK!!!!

  19. This is too funny:

    Obama gets a 3am phone call


  20. Gregoryp – I believe you are right, and I have thought that for a long time. The fix is in and it is about destroying the Clintons and running them out of town once and for all.

  21. I think the whole thing is rigged. A brand new senator, with no record of legislation, policy positions that are weak or stolen from other candidates and very shady associates sudenly is the party Golden Boy??
    Something is rotten! My gut tells me the power elite want a yes man in the White House, somebody that is beholden to them and not to the voters.
    Brazile has lost all my respect. As for Pelosi- perhpas she wants the first female president title for herself?? Katty, katty, katty.
    Shame on the whole bunch.
    As my dad said-
    “Throw the bums out!.”

  22. gregory, my best guess is that the dems have seen what an incredible success story a president like bush has been for certain republicans, and certain donors, and they want one of those too. someone with no credentials who is completely beholden to those who placed him where he is. obama’s their guy, and with good reason. they can’t control hillary, and if she wins she will have won on her own merit and grit, and will govern as she sees fit. obama will do as he’s told, because he really won’t know what else to do (remind you of anyone?) I think the dems want their own lil bush.

  23. ronkseattle, I thought about mentioning the controversy about Brazile’s description of how the state’s are represented on the committees. But it seemed to distract from my point that she was clearly implying that Dean’s appointments would vote with Obama to keep from seating 2 states.

    Also, I’ve always thought of Dean as a party guy — but Brazile’s putting his reputation at risk.

    myiq2xu, I think you’re right — we’ve got to be (polite) squeaky wheels.

  24. Ms. Brazile is one damn lousy poker player. Or perhaps she figures all Democrats are as clueless as the BO kool-aide drinkers.

    Tut-tut, Donna B. If you’re reading this, we’re not gonna get played by you or any or your cronies. If we want to get rolled over, we’ll just go on lay down under the bus with BO’s grandma.

  25. chris and Melissa: I’ve been pondering this idea for months as well. Why is the party establishment against Hillary? Why would they be willing to take a chance on a young senator with little experience? I’ve only come to the conclusion that it is both perosnal and political for folks like Pelosi. Brazile obviously wants a black president. But Pelosi, Dean, Kerry, Kennedy? I’m not sure. I have heard the same argument chris made before. That the party wants someone they can control like the puppet George W. Bush was to his party. I really don’t know what they could be thinking or how they think this can benefit the party in the long run. I’ve figured out that these folks could care less about the working class Democrat. They are in their own world and what they care most about is hanging on to their power and using people to become even more powerful.

  26. I don’t think it’s quite that evil – I think the Clintons have their people who will get the Secretary positions, and the under-Secretary positions and the advisor positions, and obama doesn’t have nearly the long waiting list to draw from. If he’s the nominee, then Ted and John can have much more influence. And even people with good intentions want influence. Whoever is the next president will have a golden opportunity to be one of the most influential presidents of the 21st century – as FDR was in the 20th century. That’s what Ted and John are looking at – and they have a better shot at glory with obama up there than with Clinton up there.

    It’s also the losers siding with Obama against the one winning Democrat. They’re deeply invested in believing that they did everything they could and didn’t win. If HRC wins, and WJC wins, then it means that it was Kerry that failed. It means had Kerry pushed harder, done what was no doubt advised, he too might have prevailed.

    Lotta ego stuff in play more than flat out corruption. But yes, obama won’t be terribly interested in running things, so it leaves lots of room for other people to run things – just like in the Reagan administration and the Bush administrration (less so, much less so, in Poppy’s admin).

  27. Lori, that seems kind of more evil to me. Our country has some very urgent needs. Things that can only be fixed by having a strong party with a strong leader. Instead they are playing games, gambling on a corrupt, serial liar who hangs out with unsavory people. I think that makes them some super-cynical individuals. How can you gamble on something as important as POTUS? I can’t envision him winning the GE, but I just can’t fathom a political party nominating a presidential candidate who is not much more qualified than you or me. The very concept is utterly ridiculous.

  28. I feel that the inmates have taken over the insane asylum.

  29. Wattsa matter, Democratic Party? Are you still afraid of Newt and Rush, Judge David B. Sentelle and Lauch Faircloth? Jeff Gerth, morton kondracke, mclaughlin, doris kearns goodwin, tim russert, zzz snore????? Would you feel better if Karl Rove was in jail? Well, that’s not that improbable is it? Didn’t you watch Anderson Cooper 360? So relax!

  30. Brazile was at ground zero during the 2000 Florida debacle as Gore’s campaign manager. What could be exceedingly useful in the 2008 dialog would be some accurate historical insight into what she did in 2000. Does she come to the table with clean hands, or does she deserve some portion of the blame for how poorly the first FL controversy was handled. I haven’t been able to find a good historical account. Based on thorough press-sponsored analyses of the ballots, if Gore had demanded that all the FL votes be recounted, then he would be president today and the country and world wouldn’t have suffered the depredations of the Bush administration over the last seven years. Instead they tried to game the controversy by pushing for a partial recount involving big urban counties favorable to Gore. Who was responsible for this strategy (besides Gore)? Was Brazile directly involved? I’m convinced that if the Gore campaign had demanded a full statewide recount and not tried to get cute, the Supreme Court would not have had the guts to step in. In other words, my bias is that they stepped in because the Gore campaign was trying to game the election and not playing it straight up. Does anyone out there in the blogosphere have any accurate inside knowledge of Brazile’s role in this affair (if any)? Is history repeating itself?

  31. Vote McCain. Nuff said. Donna and DNC can go to hell.

  32. I can only imagine that if Hillary is able to win the nomination and the G.E. that there is going to be a whole lotta housecleaning at the DNC. I hope Donna Brazile is the first one who is booted out onto the street. 😉

  33. My name is Earl: I agree. Either Clinton wins and makes the lives of Brazile, Richardson, and the rest of Obama’s ilk miserable for the next four years…

    or Obama steals the election and we give them the boot by writing in Hillary or voting for McCain.

    The poison in the Demcratic Party needs to be sucked out before we can rebuild and make it better. This is the only way the voters can do that is if we vote against these bastards.

  34. the fix is in duh
    where have you been the past year

  35. Donna Brazile can kiss my sweet black ass.

  36. I am still wondering how Donna can be on the air while Carville got the boot, but whatever. It’s always ok to hate the Clintons in the media. I am surprised they haven’t asked Ken Starr on Hardball yet.

    I fear with Obama outspending Hillary 3 to 1 on Super Delegates, it won’t matter in the end anyway.

  37. I’d like to add, was it Donna’s brilliant idea to have Al Gore distance himself from Bill Clinton in 2000?

    How’d that work out for you, Donna?

  38. The sheer stupidity of this party is giving me migraines. Why are we trying to drum out the most popular Dems in this state, possibly only trumped by Al Gore, who had his election stolen. This feels just like that! Now they’re taking Hillary’s nomination, or at least trying to deny her to right to fight for it.

    There needs to be a house cleaning and I want it to start with Dean. I call WJC for chairman.

  39. Disenfranchised Voter,

    I’m not certain what to make of Donna Brazile. I guess I had illusions that she was this smart, insightful strategist who happened to be black. Even though much of that has been shattered by her blinding hate for all that is Clinton – starting, at least in my mind, with Bill’s SC comments – I’d like to think she’s not doing this because of color. I’d like to leave her a shred of decency and assume she was dissed by the Clintons.

    This primary has really changed my opinion of some folks I used to respect…somewhat. Howard Dean, Tom Daschle, Nancy Pelosi, Donna Brazile….oh, hell, the list is getting way too long. The whole democratic party sucks, except for us.

  40. I heard Donna say on Sunday, “It’s all about the rules.” Sounds so democratic! Not about people’s votes counting or anything. I too have been puzzling about why the “leadership” of the Dem party is pushing O. There’s definitely some longstanding hatred of the Clintons involved, but something more is afoot. What astonishes me is that the endorsements of Kennedy and Kerry and Leahy and Dodd and Richardson (losers!) would carry any weight with grass root Democrats. I think the main effect was on the media, keeping the frame “one more for Obama”. But why, really why?

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